1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Jerome 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: Rowland over there. So this is stuff you should know. 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: Is that Frankenstein? Is that Frankenstein or what? No, you've 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: got your arms extended like it is. Oh those are arms, 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: those are flippers. Oh I see, I'm a monster. Okay, 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: that was the groundskeeper Willie Clothes. Yeah, that was pretty good. 9 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: Country are we Are you doing like a Locknus monster impression? Man, 10 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: you're good. I used the powers of deduction like Sherlock 11 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: Holmes did in the Private Life of Sherlock Holmes. Look 12 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: at that little bit of foreshadowing. By the way, we 13 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: covered a bit of this Everyone we Know and Sea 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: Monsters four years ago. But we felt this monster was 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: so great that or she perhaps, yeah, maybe Nestie deserved 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: her own space. Let's just go with their sure, why not? 17 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: A right? So um, yeah, I went back. I was like, 18 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: I feel like we definitely did a lock Neess episode. 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: But no, just a little little passage in the Sea 20 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 1: Monster episode. So we'll flesh that out a little bit. Okay, 21 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: So Chuck, let's go back about ten thousand years. Okay, 22 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: we need a lot of kerosene in the way Back 23 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: machine and human excrement farts. Can I say that? Well 24 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: you just did, all right, we'll see if that stays. 25 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: So human farts and kerosene apparently now power the way 26 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: Back machine. Oh it always did, maybe, Jerry, Well, I 27 00:01:53,640 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: had some extra sound effects. So here we are, and 28 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: we're actually chucking the land that will become Scotland in 29 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: a few thousand years um. And if you'll look right there, 30 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: right there, there's a glacier retreating. It's melting. As it melting, 31 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: it's filling up this gouge in the earth. And this gouge, 32 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: Chuck is eventually going to be called lock Mass. That's right. 33 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: And this gouge, my friend, as you know, is not 34 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: huge as far as square miles go, but it's very 35 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: very deep. It is. It's like so lackness is like 36 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: long and narrow, and it is like it was created 37 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: when an ice sheet gouged the rocky earth in Scotland 38 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: ten thousand years ago and then the ice melting and 39 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: filled it in basically like I just said, And it 40 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: was a deep gouge not very wide, um, but it's 41 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: like deeper than the North Sea around Scotland. It looks 42 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: like thirty six kilometers or twenty three miles long. And 43 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: then most recently the newest deep its depth is measured 44 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: it close to nine feet, which is staggering. Yeah, it's um. 45 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: So it's like a thousandth the size of Lake Michigan, 46 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: but it's three and a half times deeper than Lake Erie. Man. 47 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: That's deep. That is very very poor lake. It's also 48 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: really dark too because the runoff from the land around 49 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: it's very peat rich, which is black, and so that 50 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: that runoff goes into lake and it turns the lake 51 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: a very very dark color. So it's like it looks mysterious. 52 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: Like you can look at Lochness. I've never been there 53 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: personally aside from this time now that we're here, um, 54 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: but from what I understand, it is a like a 55 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: nice mysterious looking lake. Yeah, and that I mean I've 56 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: always thought it looked creepy, but it's beautiful really. But 57 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: there's something about deep dark and uh, you know reputed 58 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: monsters that will do that to you over the years. Yeah, 59 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: you know, like lakes and Georgia. I don't think I 60 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: heard once there's no U natural lake in Georgia that 61 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: every single lake in Georgia is man made by power 62 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: by power company. That I mean, I don't know as 63 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: far as I know that's true. There may be there 64 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: may be a natural lake somewhere that I don't know 65 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: about in the mountains. But I think they're supposedly all 66 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: Georgia power lakes, aren't they. That's that's what I understand. 67 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: And every single one of them, I mean, they're they're 68 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: no deeper than like thirty forty fifty ft. That's not 69 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: very deep at all as far as lakes go. And 70 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: a lot of them have like flooded structures, like they 71 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: built a damn in like the water built up around 72 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: it and flooded like towns or like there's a gulf 73 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: station at at Um under Lake Lanear. I believe, right, Yeah, 74 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: I mean they're they're yeah, automobiles supposedly an old remnants 75 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: of houses under a lot of these lakes. It's like 76 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: a brother art though when they've flooded the valley exactly 77 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: same thing. So when you're when you're swimming in a 78 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: lake in Georgia and it's just like thirty ft deep, 79 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: you can just feel everything underneath you. Imagine what it 80 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: must be like swimming in a lake and feeling that 81 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: there's nine feet between you and the bottom of this 82 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: lake and what all is there? Yeah, you could I 83 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: don't know, I feel like you could probably sense that feeling. Right. 84 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: So if you put all this together, you can kind 85 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: of say, well, of course people are saying that that 86 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: there's something in locknets. You can just look at it 87 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: and think there's got to be something hiding under there. 88 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: And apparently that's been the case for many, many thousands 89 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: of years from what we understand. Uh yeah, I mean 90 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: this was I had no idea that this went back 91 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: that far. But there were these people um way back 92 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: in the day called the Picks p i c t S. 93 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: And they were a tattoo covered tribe who were fierce warriors, 94 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: and the Romans named them painted ones I guess because 95 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: of their tattoos. And they carved these um I guess 96 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: they're just like, uh, it's as standing stones, but with 97 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: a little carving like clay like a wall carvings. They're no, 98 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: they're like it's a freeze standing carved stone that has 99 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: like pictures of animals on them. But is it like 100 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: a sculpture. No, it's like a flat stone that they 101 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: used is basically like a canvas, but it's it's a 102 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: it's a stone. It's a free standing stone, all right, 103 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,559 Speaker 1: Because I saw the pictures, but they were so close 104 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: up you couldn't really get that big image. But a 105 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: long story short, they were actually you know, animals and 106 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: things like everyone else that drew on cave walls. You 107 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: would draw what's around you, and everything can pretty much 108 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: be explained, except for this one. They carved the Lockness monster. 109 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: Let's just go ahead and say it. Yeah, it looks 110 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: it looks like kind of a seahorsey kind of thing 111 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: or you know. And this article, um, one of the 112 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: articles we used was from Nova PBS is Nova series, 113 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: and um. They basically point out that if you look 114 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: at all the other carvings that the Picks made, there 115 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: immediately identifiable what animal they were they were drawing with 116 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: this particular one called the Picked Beasts, no one has 117 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: any idea. And they're like, okay, well it was a 118 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: locknest monster that they drew, right, or an elephant that's 119 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: swimming maybe, which, um, well, I don't want to spoil it. 120 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: But elephants do swim a long distance. Yeah, that's the 121 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: thing that that connects the two episodes today, isn't it. 122 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: That's right, swimming elephants. Who'd have thought that one thing? 123 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: So the picks at least as far as years ago. Uh, 124 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: we're drawing pictures of sea monsters around Scotland, and there's 125 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: a lot of legends of like sea monsters that we 126 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: talked about in the sea Monsters episode in Scotland in general, 127 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: not just locked nests like they're crazy for him. Yeah, 128 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: they really are, and they have all sorts of scary 129 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: um stories behind them, like uh, water the water kelpie. 130 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: That was that frightened me reading it at my desk, right, 131 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: whether the water kelpie will come up and say, hey, kids, 132 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: you want to ride on my back through through the lock. 133 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: It's gonna be fun, and because all the guttish kids 134 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: sound like that, and they jump on and there imediately 135 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: stuck to the beast, which takes them down to the 136 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: depths of the lock and they all drowned and then 137 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: chuck and then I think you should take it from here. 138 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: When which part their hats become stuck in there? Right? 139 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: And they drowned and die. But then what happens the 140 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: next day? Yeah, this is I'm not quite sure how 141 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: this happens, but their livers wash ashore the next day. 142 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: So I guess the beast likes to eat every all 143 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: of the child, except for the liver, which I get. 144 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: I don't like liver either. No, I don't like liver myself, 145 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:38,359 Speaker 1: especially kid liver right, which you would think would be delectable. 146 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: But no. So um that so years ago Lochness monster, 147 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 1: possibly with the picks. If we fast forward about a 148 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: thousand years beyond that, there's a saint named Saint Colomba 149 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: who showed up in Ireland and said, hey, Heathen's have 150 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: you ever seen any pamphlets or brochures about Christianity? I 151 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 1: have some I can give you, and converted the Scots 152 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: to um Christianity, and like five sixty five, I think 153 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: around that time, and there's a story of St. Columba 154 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: who was going to visit a Pictish king and UM said, 155 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: on the way, stopped at the lock and looked out 156 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: on the lock and there was some Scottish guy swimming 157 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: and St. Columba saw a monster swimming toward the guy, 158 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: as if to attack him and held up his hand 159 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: and said, in the name of God, I command you 160 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: to turn around and swim away. And apparently the monster did. 161 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: And this really, I guess, extended St. Columba's credibility among 162 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: the pis. Yeah, and I think we could just end 163 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: the show right there. There you go. That's the Lockness 164 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: months proven by history. Uh. And then flash forward again. Um. 165 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: There was a BBC correspondent named Nicholas Witchell. And there 166 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: are a lot of people who over the years, we'll 167 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: talk about a lot of them who have really gotten 168 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 1: into this, um like quit their jobs and this became 169 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: their job kind of thing. Yeah, Like it gets under 170 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: your skin, Yeah, under your under your lucky beastly skin. Um. 171 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: And he wrote a book in nineteen seventy four called 172 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: The Lockness Story, and he ended up digging up about 173 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: a dozen or so references pre twentieth century to some 174 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: sort of monster out there. Yeah. And it really started 175 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: to pick up weirdly in like the late the second 176 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: half of the nineteenth century, and there it was sporadic. 177 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: But the year of the Lochness Monster, the year the 178 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: Lochness Monster became part of the public consciousness, was nineteen 179 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: thirty three though, for sure, that sounds like a great 180 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: place to take a break. Oh boy, okay, let's do 181 00:10:46,400 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: it all right, chuck, So I said. Three was the 182 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: year that the Lochness Monster kind of hit the global scene, 183 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: like really made the world party. Yeah, and for a 184 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: good reason. They finally built a road that went around 185 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: the uh the shore on the north side specifically, so 186 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: you could all of a sudden you could drive on 187 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: this lock and you could look at it and stare 188 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: at it and eventually see something if you spend enough 189 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: time there. And in April that happened Mr and Mrs McKay, 190 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: we're local to the region. They were driving home and 191 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: they saw what they described as the most extraordinary form 192 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: of animal rolling and plunging on the surface. That was 193 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,599 Speaker 1: written up in the Inverness Courier and they used the 194 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: word monster for the first time, And so the Lochness 195 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: Monster was officially born. And that whole year, I mean 196 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: that was in the in April. That whole year, there 197 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: were different sightings and just kind of the fever really 198 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: hit a fever pitch. The fever hit a fever pitch. 199 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 1: It was pretty feverish very quickly that year. Yeah, so 200 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: there was something else that happened in nineteen thirty three 201 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: two that I've seen a lot of people point to 202 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: is potentially something that kind of kept the media interest 203 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: going was that King Kong was released basically worldwide in 204 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: and there's like a whole thing about you know this, 205 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: that whole forbidden island where King Kong lives, where like 206 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: dinosaurs are still alive and stuff like that, And a 207 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: lot of people point to, you know, being exposed to 208 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: that as kind of keeping this like bringing it to 209 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: that fever pitch, you know. Yeah, I mean there were 210 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: more eyewitness sighting. Supposedly a motorcyclist saw one on like 211 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: crossing the road. Supposedly, Uh, they offered up um a 212 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: circus offered up a reward of twenty pounds. People were 213 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: camping out and kind of you know, just kind of 214 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: waiting for Nest two pier. And then finally in December, 215 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: the London and this story you're gonna want to listen 216 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: closely and then put a pin in it so it'll 217 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: come back to haunt us later or not us. But 218 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: you know, the show the world party. But the London 219 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: Daily Mail hired an actor, a director and a big 220 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: game hunter. This is a great name all rolled into one. Yeah. 221 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 1: Marmaduke weather Ll and said, listen, dude, you have all 222 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: these skills. You are a director and actor and you 223 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: you know your way around the forest and the lake. 224 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: So get out there and see what you can do. 225 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: He said, that was the most bizarre pep talk anyone's 226 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: ever given. He's like, I know all these things, but 227 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: I appreciate it anyway. So the yeah, they the Daily 228 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: Mail sent him up there to figure out what was 229 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: going on. This was December, did you say, Yeah, December 230 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: of thirty three, so um, and again this whole thing 231 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: started in April and we've been building and building and 232 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: then by the time so the Daily Mail, they were like, 233 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: you know, basically like the Daily Mail is now from 234 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: what I understand, like super, um, you know what I'm saying, 235 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: it's the Daily Mail. I don't really think you have 236 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: to put it in any other way. Are they like tabloid? 237 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah for sure. I mean I always get 238 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: the those UK rags confused on which ones are like, 239 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, tabloid and which ones are reputable. They were 240 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: printing clickbait before computers were around, before they even knew 241 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: what that was and there, like, why are we calling 242 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: it clickbait? Yeah? Like what's a mouse? They called it 243 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: thumb bait, right, Actually they called them. Remember we talked 244 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: about this in our tabloid episode. They called it like like, hey, 245 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: Martha's stories like stories so amazing that they got the 246 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: reader to say, hey, Martha, listen to this. Do we 247 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: do a show on tabloids? You don't remember we did? 248 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: It was a good one. I know it's we should 249 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: just sit around and listen to old episodes sometime refresh 250 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: our memory. Okay, So, um weather else shows up to 251 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: lock An s among like a lot of pomp and 252 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: circumstances that Daily Mail didn't like just quietly sent him there. 253 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: They really promoted this and he starts searching and within 254 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: just a few days he found something. He found tracks 255 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: in the mud around Lockness and um, he did his 256 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: measurements because again remember he's a big game hunter, tracker, outdoorsman, 257 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: and he he and an actor, a fit not a 258 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: not a successful actor. I get the impression that he 259 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: was like, um, kind of an Edward type actor director. Um, 260 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: but he uh he he calculated that the animal that 261 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: made these tracks with like I think four toad tracks 262 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: in the mud was at least twenty ft long, and 263 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: this happened at December. He took plaster casts and he 264 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: sent him off to the UM, the Royal Museum, you know, 265 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: the Natural History Museum in London, to to be analyzed. 266 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: Just as Christmas said in even though this was potentially 267 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: the greatest find zoological find in the world hit in 268 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: world history, they were like, we still have to go 269 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: and break right on holiday, Bob Cratchit commands it. Everyone waited. 270 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: They did come back from holiday and uh, you know, 271 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: monster hunters were all over London, that are all over 272 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: loch Ness and they were super excited. And then in 273 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: January zoologists said, um, bad news. Not only is this 274 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: the footprint of a hippopotamus, because that would have been 275 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: pretty amazing in and of itself, right right, yeah, like 276 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: what's the hippopotamus doing there? But they said no, no, no, 277 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: it was a taxidermy hippopotamus foot and it was probably 278 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: like an ashtray or an umbrella. Stand right, somebody just 279 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: walks around. I went foot here, footprint here, footprint there, 280 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: and whether I fell for it. So I there's a 281 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: question of whether he was the perpetrator of the fraud 282 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: or whether he was, you know, the victim of this fraud. 283 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: But he fell for and he was humiliated. I didn't 284 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: see any um, actual like articles, but apparently the Daily Mail, 285 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: the paper that sent him up there, said like humiliated 286 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: him in their in their coverage of the whole thing. 287 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: So he retreated from public view. He was humiliated. And um, 288 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: don't forget Duke weather Roll because he comes back later. Yeah. 289 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: And not only did they ruin his good name or 290 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: his mediocre name, at least he Uh, the whole incident 291 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: just sort of put a damper on Nessy for a 292 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: few decades. Um, Yeah, kind of brought out the crack 293 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: pots and anyone that had any sightings, uh, they would 294 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: be dismissed and said, to know, it's an illusion. It 295 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: was a duck or a or a log floating or 296 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: a swimming deer or something, and it just it's sort 297 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: of put a big dent in this being taken seriously 298 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: for a long time. The impression that I have is 299 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: that the world was kind of like fool me once, 300 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: you know, like they gotten all wrapped up in the 301 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: whole thing, and then you know, it was proved to 302 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: be a big fraud. So everybody just abandoned the Lockness monster. 303 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: Well most people did. Anybody who seemed legitimate, especially if 304 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: you're a scientist. The Locknus monster was was not real. Yeah, 305 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: but that did not stop just regular human beings and 306 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: monster hunters to um to not go there anymore. They 307 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: were still into it. I think there was a book 308 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four that said more than four thousand people, 309 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: uh you know, have said that they saw something. That's 310 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: a lot of people. And not only that, but all 311 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: of the or a lot of the eyewitness accounts were 312 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: really similar, and a lot of them were from people 313 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: that were you know, there was a Nobel Prize winner. 314 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: They were scientists and teachers and lawyers and priests. Like 315 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't just a bunch of uh kooks like you 316 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: and I out there. Yeah. There was a guy named 317 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: Dr Richard Cinch. He was a biochemist who won the 318 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize who said he saw something, and like you said, 319 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: they kind of bore a similar similarities in these reports, 320 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: Like there were humps, at least one or two humps 321 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: rising above the surface, like an overturned boat. Maybe it 322 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: was an overturned boat, maybe so uh a lot of 323 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: people reported something with a long, slender neck and a 324 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: small head rising out of the surface, rising out from 325 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: the lake. Um. And there was this local doctor named 326 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: Constance White who was um. I think she might have 327 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: lived in Inverness. She lived around Lochness, and she had 328 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: a lot of friends who had come forward and said, 329 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: you know, I've seen this, and people just shouted and 330 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: laughed at them and they were humiliated themselves. And she said, 331 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: enough of this, I believe there's something there. I think 332 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: these these accounts are similar enough that there's really kind 333 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: of lends some credence to this idea. And she started 334 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: collecting all these different reports and and published the reports 335 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: along with sketches from the people who had who's made 336 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: these reports, into a book called More Than a Legend 337 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty seven. And it took the Locknus frivolity 338 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: and turned it back into a potentially um scientifically studiable thing. 339 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, it didn't. Uh, it's not like it 340 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: fully legitimized it, but it kind of reminded people like, hey, 341 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: it's not just a bunch of crackpots out here um 342 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: making stuff up. Like there have been some reputable people 343 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: who have seen very similar things and here they are 344 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: all collected in one space. So that inspired more people 345 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: to UM uh, namely the scientific community, to to get involved. 346 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: And UH it happened in UM about a ten year period. 347 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: There were four different expeditions from Oxford, Cambridge, University of 348 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: Birmingham and the BBC that all went out there and 349 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: did their own expeditions and investigations with UM sonar, which 350 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: was a new I guess a newer technology at the time. 351 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: UM that allows you to use sound to search underwater 352 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: for something, and it basically was a little bit better 353 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: than someone sitting in their lawn chair with binoculars for 354 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: hours on end, which is what people were mostly doing 355 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: I guess in that first wave in the early thirties. UM, 356 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,479 Speaker 1: he's what they had, right Uh. But then so so 357 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 1: Constance White White book also UM kind of gave rise 358 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: to a second wave of lockness hunters inspired a lot 359 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: of people. UM. There was the Lockness Investigation Bureau which 360 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: set up shop on the shore of the Loch and 361 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: UM kept watch and led investigations and expeditions for like 362 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: a decade I think from sixty two to seventy two. 363 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: And there's an no that's not. Bed's pretty spending ten 364 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: years looking for the Lockness Monster. I think you've you've 365 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: established your bona fide, as you know. And then Tim 366 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: Dinsdale was a He was an aeronautical engineer and he 367 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: became kind of a famous Lockness hunter because on his 368 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: after reading more than a legend constant white book, UM, 369 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: he was inspired to go hunt for the Lochness Monster, 370 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: and on his first time out he caught something very 371 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: weird moving away from him on the lock in on film. 372 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: Have you seen it? Yeah, I've looked at all this stuff. 373 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: Do you think I think some of it looks very interesting? 374 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: They didn't stale film in particular, looks pretty interesting to 375 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: me too. Yeah, I agreed, I'm not gonna go out there. Well, 376 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: let's just save I'll save my judgment save it. Um. 377 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: But in the like I said, over the years, as 378 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: technology got better, UM, they started using this technology in 379 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. UM there was in a series of 380 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: expeditions UM sponsored by Academy of Applied Science out of 381 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: a Boston and they were the first people to combine 382 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: sonar because they're all already using that, but sonar and 383 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: underwater photography under the leadership of a guy named Robert 384 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: Rines who was UH I love this description, A lawyer 385 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: trained in physics, and they were using side scan sonar, 386 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: which we've talked about before a couple of times over 387 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: the years. Yeah, maybe pressure hunting or something or Barbie, 388 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: I don't remember one of those. But here here's the 389 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: idea there is you combine side scan sonar with UH 390 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: in time it along with your underwater photography, and if 391 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: you get um something a picture snapped at the same time, 392 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: you get a let's call it a ding. I don't 393 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: know what sound it makes, but I assume a side 394 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: scan sonar dings. Something swims by, well, no side scan sonar, 395 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: so it makes it sends out a ping or whatever, 396 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: but it gets um echoes back from all the different 397 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: stuff that bounces off of at different rates, and it 398 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: creates basically like a picture of the floor of the 399 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: or of the lake. Yeah. I just meant a ding 400 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: to alert you. I was just oh, I got you. 401 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: I see like a typewriter, right, or a microwave. Yeah. 402 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: But the point is if you have those two things 403 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: that like, hey, we got a real picture and then 404 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: a side scan sonar picture at the same time, then 405 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: it has a little bit more credibility all of a sudden. Yeah, 406 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: and I mean it really did they hit something on 407 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: I think in June or sometime in Nive They had 408 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: this system going and at the same time that the 409 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: sonar was showing some at least one very large object 410 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: moving UM, they were getting photographs that that, when they developed, 411 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 1: showed some very odd stuff. Yeah. And this is this 412 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: underwater photography. It's got a strobe light that's UM work, 413 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: so you can, you know, see stuff because it is 414 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: very dark. And this thing, like if you look at 415 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: these photos, you know, it looks like a big triangular 416 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: sort of diamond shaped fin or a flipper on a 417 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 1: big kind of creature. But you know, it's not super detailed, 418 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: but it does look like something different and interesting. Did 419 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: you see the other ones that that came out of 420 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: that batch. Yeah, I mean it all looks different and interesting. 421 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: Like I'm not saying like, oh my god, look at 422 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: that monster, because I don't know enough about what sort 423 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: of you know, weird fish might be in that lake, 424 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: but it definitely looks weird enough to prompt attention. I 425 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: think it looks like a big bellied, long necked sea monster. 426 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: To me, that's what it looks like. All right, you 427 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,239 Speaker 1: use the word monster. I was trying to avoid that, 428 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: but well it looks like a monster of the sea. 429 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: So so, I mean, this is a big deal. When 430 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: they got these, this was these were respected scientists carrying 431 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 1: out a a sober, level headed expedition to that they 432 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: were drinking a little bit, let's be honest, sober ish, 433 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: level headed ish expedition. And when they came came with these, uh, 434 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: these pictures, when they developed them like they again, the 435 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: world was like, all right, fool me, why wait a 436 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: few years, let's go again. That's the that's the mantra 437 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: of the world, especially in the seventies. Like I love 438 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: that this happened in nineteen seventy five because world was like, 439 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: which story should we pay attention to today, the haunted 440 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: House in Amityville or the Locknez monster photos or the 441 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: Bermuda Triangle. Yeah, I love the seventies were the greatest 442 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: decade ever, so great and then they're like, who cares 443 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: about any of that, Let's go to a key party. Um. 444 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: So Ryan's he had his distinction on his project was 445 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: important because he had a couple of while he was 446 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: fairly reputable. He had a couple of really reputable scientists 447 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: that backed him up. Um, this guy named Harold Doc 448 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: Edgerton from M I T. And he's the inventor of 449 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: side scan SONAR. So I think he probably totally loved 450 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: that they were using his equipment. He said, well, at 451 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: first he was not, He was not on board, which 452 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: makes his finally coming on board even more legitimate. He 453 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: was like, no, I think you're a crackpot. And then 454 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: he saw that stuff. He's like, this is this seems legitimate? 455 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: He said it looks like a flipper of a monster. 456 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: He said, it looks like a monster of the sea. 457 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: And then this other guy, Sir Peter Scott, who was 458 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: a naturalist, UM, and they both um got behind rhymes, 459 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: which was a very big deal, so much so that 460 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: Ryan's was actually able to present evidence at the House 461 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: of Commons in London, and people were starting to take 462 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 1: this like really seriously. Yeah, and here in the States, 463 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: that would be like testifying before Congress about the sea 464 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: monster that you found in you know, Lake Havasu or 465 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: something like that. I'm sure there's one in Lake Havasu. Oh, 466 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's several um which is great that we 467 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: said that, because now we're gonna get a million emails 468 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: telling us to the name of the monster in Lake Havastar. 469 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: It's to have asou monster. Is that ungrateful to say 470 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: something like that. I don't think so. I think it was. 471 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take it out. So um the the I 472 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: don't I don't know if he actually presented the findings 473 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 1: or not, but definitely wrote up. Sir Peter Scott and 474 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: Robert Ryan's wrote up a paper, an academic paper. It 475 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: wasn't pure viewed, but it was published in the journal Nature, 476 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: which is I mean, they're two big English language science 477 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: journal Science and Nature, and they got there published in 478 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: one and it's it was in the opinions of comments sections. Sure, 479 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: but Science letter to the editor basically the crack pop corner. 480 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: But the the the the I mean Nature published it. 481 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: They could have been like, no, this is ridiculous. And 482 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: these guys they they published this paper. From what I 483 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: can tell earnestly, like they meant it right. So um, 484 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: in this paper they gave nessie it's scientific binomial name. Yeah, 485 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: and this is after we should say that. Um the 486 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: naturalist Mr Scott uh said, oh, By the way, not 487 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: only are are we do we believe what Rhyme's is doing, 488 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: but I think that Nessie is a plessy assur um. 489 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: This is a marine reptile that we thought when extinct 490 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: sixty million years ago, which that did not help the case. No, 491 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: it didn't. And I think I get the impression that 492 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: Ryan's was kind of like, we didn't talk about you 493 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: saying this publicly, but um, Scott kind of jumped the 494 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,479 Speaker 1: gun from what I understand, But he did say that, 495 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: and that really turned a lot of these scientific establishment 496 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: types that Ryan's was trying to basically get on board 497 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: to try to find the Lockness Monster turned them off. Yeah, 498 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: but nevertheless they did give it that name. Um. Necessitarists, 499 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: Rombo tereks Man, if you ever are at a trivia 500 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: night and they ask you what that is, I will 501 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: be so ashamed of every single one of you. If 502 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: you missed that, that would be a tough tribute question. Though. 503 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: That's a great one, though, Necessitarists Ramba tark as the 504 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: Lockness Monster. I think that's one of the better trivia 505 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,239 Speaker 1: questions I've ever heard. Well, I'll trivia masters out there 506 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: take note. Use it. It will um and thank us 507 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: afterward and direct people to stuff you should know on 508 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio podcast app or if you listen 509 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: to podcasts, Well done, Chuck. I think you're gonna get 510 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: like a gift card from Target or something for that. Uh. 511 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: So they give it this name mainly, it's not like 512 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: they're like, hey, let's just name this thing. They did 513 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: it really because, uh, there was a new conservation law 514 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: in the UK that said a species won't be protected 515 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: if it does not have a buy no meal and 516 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: a common name. So they said, just to cover ourselves 517 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: just in case Nessie is a real thing, let's go 518 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: ahead and name name this lady. Right. So um again 519 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: after that, after Sir Peter Scott said it's a dinosaur, 520 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: which again it's not the most far fetched thing in 521 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: the world. Um, it's like the Cela canth was thought 522 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: to be extinct for tens of millions of years and 523 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: started finding them off of the coast of Africa, so 524 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: it's not entirely out of the realm and possibility. It 525 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: wasn't like this guy was like, well it's aliens. Obviously, 526 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: it's a giant alien. It's a sea alien. Um. Like 527 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: there there was from what I understand they were earnest 528 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: and they were trying to do this legitimately, although one 529 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: of the MP's in Scotland pointed out that necessit terroists 530 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: ramba tericks is an anagram for monster hoax by Sir 531 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: Peter S. And for many years everybody's like, well, yes, 532 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: Scott at least hadn't bought into it. But he responded 533 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: to this years later with like, do you really think 534 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: that if I, if I had wanted to do that, 535 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: I couldn't have also fit in the CEO T T 536 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: in Scott And he didn't really answer the question. But 537 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: I think the impression that I got from like actual 538 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: Lochness monster hunters is that he was he was earnest 539 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: in the anagram was unintended. Yeah, that's pretty I mean, 540 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: I don't think that was the deal, but it is 541 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: pretty interesting that you can form that anagram species. Pretty 542 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: interesting monster hoax by Sir Peter S. It's pretty specific. 543 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: But I mean, what a betrayal because Robert Ryan's was 544 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: a true believer and if that's what Scott was doing, 545 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: he was one of the bigger puts is the British 546 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: naturalist community ever ever produced, which, by the way, did 547 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: you get that email about Yiddish? No, huh, apparently puts 548 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,719 Speaker 1: is a very bad word. Oh is it like Fanny 549 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: in the UK? No, it's just uh that this nice 550 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: lady wrote us about Yiddish words and sayings. And she's like, 551 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: most people don't realize that schmuck and putts are are 552 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: not the nicest words. What does putts mean? And like 553 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: American English, we'll discuss offline. Okay, I really want to know. 554 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I can wait. That's okay, you can wait. 555 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: So can you make some hand justus be the initials. 556 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: So in the eighties, UM things started to ramp up 557 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: a little bit more. UM. There were more sonar hits 558 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: coming around UH. In N seven in the late eighties, 559 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: a one million pound they spent a million bucks for 560 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: a week long exploration called Operation Deep Scan UM. And 561 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: this was once again the UM Luckness Project, who were 562 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: science based what they were doing though, and I thought 563 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: this was interesting. They weren't like, listen, we're searching for nessie. 564 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: They says, what we're gonna do is just go search 565 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: for UH anomalies with the sonar and see if we 566 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: can start ruling some things out. Yeah. Then they used 567 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: like twenty four boats from what I understand to like 568 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: sweep in unison using side side scan sowar the whole 569 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: lock like at once. They were just going slowly back 570 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: and forth over the lock. And remember that side scan 571 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: sonar creates like a picture and image of the of 572 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: the the lake floor. And so they were really coming 573 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: up with some good stuff. Most of the stuff they 574 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: found was stationary objects, so obviously that's not it. But 575 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: they did find three things that from what I understand 576 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: to this day, have never been fully explained. That we're um, 577 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: obviously moving targets that were large that they just don't 578 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,879 Speaker 1: they don't know what they were. They have no idea. Yeah, 579 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,439 Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting. Uh. And this carried over, of course 580 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: into the early nineties. Another BBC guy named Nicholas Witchell 581 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: Um organized project Uh how do you pronounce that Urquhart. 582 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: I was going with er Quart er Quart. I like 583 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: that I do too, silent h. But also the Qua 584 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: Sure project erquart, which was a real scientific in the 585 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: first one um scientific extensive study of the biology and 586 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: geology of the lake itself. Yeah, Nicholas Witchell, he was 587 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: leading this thing. They weren't looking for the monster but 588 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: he was one of He was that guy who wrote 589 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,959 Speaker 1: that nineteen seventy four book about the monster. Yeah, people 590 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: kind of come and go in this story is interesting, 591 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 1: it really is. It's got it's a tight knot of 592 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: of like a ball of worms writhing together or something. 593 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: But he did while he was doing the study of 594 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: biology and geology, he did find another underwater moving target, 595 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: followed it for a few minutes, lost it. But it 596 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,240 Speaker 1: was just yet another kind of unexplained large moving mass. 597 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: And there was a sonar expert name Arnie Carr, who 598 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: was a board that expedition, who said, I would say 599 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: that this was biological in nature. Obviously was moving. It 600 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 1: was about fifteen ft long, about the size of a 601 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: small whale, so we shouldn't compare it to things. They're like, 602 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: it sort of looked like an overton turned boat, and 603 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: they're like, all right, well maybe it was, or the 604 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 1: the fin looked like a large ore, all right, or 605 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: a small otter Like stop saying that, right, All doing 606 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: is making me think, well, yeah, that's probably what it is. 607 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: Then it probably wasn't a small whale. I don't know. 608 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: Is it a sea monster. It's a it's a monster 609 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: of the sea. Okay, so um again. I don't know 610 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: if you guys are paying enough attention, but just slowly 611 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: over the years, people have continued to uh show up 612 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: at lock nests launch expeditions come up with some things 613 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: that couldn't be explained. And the most recent one happened 614 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: in two thousand six team when a group of researchers 615 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: from Norway showed up to the lock to Um Explore 616 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 1: under an expedition and try to find the Locknest monster, 617 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: and they actually found something using side scan sonar plate. 618 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: Did you see the picture, Yeah, it looks like a 619 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: sea monster just kind of laying on the bottom of 620 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: the lake there. That's exactly what it looked like. So 621 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: they were I don't know if they thought, well, jeez, 622 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 1: I mean, did it die? Is it sleeping? What's going 623 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: on with this thing? Because it wasn't moving And I 624 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: don't know how they figured it out, but it turns 625 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: out that it was a prop from a movie from 626 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: nine seventy, The Private Life of Sherlock Colums Billy Wilder movie. 627 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: And if you look at this monster in that movie, 628 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: it looks like the Lockness monster. And when they were done, 629 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: they just basically let the air out of the humps 630 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: and sun kid yep, and it just laid there for 631 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,240 Speaker 1: like fifty years. Oh man. But the reason, the reason 632 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: why it looked like the Lockness Monster even so much 633 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 1: that just the sonar image of this thing lying on 634 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: its side at the bottom of the lake, this prop 635 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: looked like the Lockness Monster is because we all have 636 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: the exact same image of the Lockness Monster. And what 637 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't realize is that that image 638 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: comes from one specific photograph that was published in and 639 00:37:47,080 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: we will talk about that after this message break. M 640 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: all right, So you left us with quite a cliffhanger. 641 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: The very famous dare I say infamous, uh photo of 642 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: NeSSI that looks like a someone with her finger sticking 643 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: out of the water and their arm. Really, is that 644 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: what it looks like to you? Sure? It looks like 645 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: a monster of the sea. To me. It is the 646 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: most famous picture of the Lockness Monster, which is interesting 647 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: because I think that stuff from looks way more realistic 648 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: and you know, potentially provable. Well, this was give him 649 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: a break, no, I know, And that's why it took 650 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: the world by storm, because it's the oldest one I think, 651 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 1: And that's if you type in Lochness Monster image, this 652 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 1: is the first thing that you're gonna see, and it's 653 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: it's why everybody's seen. It's like the first thing they 654 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: teach you in school is they show every buddy a 655 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: picture of the Lochness monsters. Say this is the Lochness Monster. 656 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:09,240 Speaker 1: Now onto reading, you know. So the this picture's origin 657 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: was um. It first showed up on the cover of 658 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: the London Daily Mail in ninety four. This was the 659 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: year after Duke wetherell Um had had been kind of 660 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: denounced and humiliated, and I mean very quickly after that 661 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 1: whole thing, this picture appears. And even though people had said, 662 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: like no, this was not this thing's of um, the 663 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: Locknus Monster is not real. Um, this picture really kind 664 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: of kept interested going, Like the world didn't just completely 665 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: walk away from it, like you said, like everyday people 666 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: were still interested in it. And it was largely because 667 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: of this picture that was published into right. So the 668 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: photo has a pretty good story in and of itself. Um. 669 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: It was sold to the Daily Mail by a surgeon 670 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 1: from London name Ar Kenneth Wilson. He said, I took 671 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: this picture. I saw a big commotion out in the water, 672 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: and I saw a semon stir and it took a photo. 673 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: And everyone was like, this guy's a surgeon. Why would 674 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: this guy make this thing up. It's got to be real. 675 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: Skeptics are like, there's no way this thing is real. 676 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: Of course, it's a hoax. Uh. And it took what 677 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: fifty years, basically fifty one years until they actually did 678 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: scientific analysis of this thing. A man named Stuart campbell 679 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: Um and an article in the British Journal of Photography 680 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 1: almost a psychology, Nope, photography, it's a little different. He 681 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: concluded that, uh, he looked at it, did a big 682 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: study and said, all right, this thing looks real, but 683 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: it's two to three ft long, and I think it's 684 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: a bird or an otter. And I think that surgeon 685 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: knew that. Right. But the reason, the whole reason why 686 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 1: so many people were like, this is a real picture 687 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,399 Speaker 1: is because the guy who supposedly took it, um are 688 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: Kenneth Wilson right, like you said, he was a doctor. 689 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: And so the whole world was like, well, no, this 690 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: guy's a doctor. Of course he's believable, because doctors have 691 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,799 Speaker 1: never done anything wrong, right. Apparently no one had seen 692 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: the nick yet, thank you, so. Um. Finally, uh, even 693 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,919 Speaker 1: in nine eighty four when this British Journal photography analysis 694 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 1: was published, that was mostly kind of like, oh I 695 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: knew it to people who already thought it was a hoax, 696 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: to the rest of the world, and to a lot 697 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,439 Speaker 1: of Lochness Hunt monster hunters like that, that did nothing 698 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 1: to de legitimize it. Again because our Kenneth um Wilson 699 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: was a doctor, so of course he wouldn't have perpetrated 700 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: a fraud. And then finally, in uh, there was a 701 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: guy who is a Lochness monster hunter slash fanatic named 702 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: Alistair Boyd and uh in he basically dropped a bomb 703 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: on the world and said, the surgeon's photo is a 704 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,879 Speaker 1: hundred percent fake and I have this story that ex 705 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 1: Blaine's how and he basically said, no, it's even among 706 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: Lockness monster hunters like himself. The surgeon's photo has been 707 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: basically debunked by this story that he came up with. Right, 708 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: So Boyd and his wife, uh, because you know, I'm 709 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: sure Boyd was like, Hey, this is my new crazy passion, 710 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: so you have to come with me. She rolled her 711 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: eyes and said okay. So they teamed up, uh, and 712 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: they did have a large animal sighting in nine. So 713 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: they were into it. It's not like they're out to 714 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: debunk this thing. I think they were trying to bunk it. Um. 715 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: They did some research behind the photo. He came across 716 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: an old newspaper clipping and the son of remember we 717 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: said to put a pen and Duke weather All, Marmaduke 718 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: his who was remember famously duped um supposedly with that 719 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: hippo foot and sold out by the Daily Mail. So 720 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: they found an old clipping which his son Ian or Ian, 721 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,840 Speaker 1: I'm not sure he pronounces it, said that that photo 722 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: was a hoax. And Boyd was reading this article, uh 723 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen and a couple of very important little details 724 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: kind of stuck out to him. Yeah, the so Ian 725 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: Wetherill had said that there was a guy named Maurice 726 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,960 Speaker 1: Chambers involved in the hoax, and Maurice Chambers is the 727 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: guy that are Kenneth Wilson said originally when the first 728 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: that photo first came out, sixty years before, Maurice Chambers 729 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,399 Speaker 1: was who he was going to visit. So it would 730 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 1: be really weird that Ian weather All would know who 731 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: Maurice Chambers was, and that our Kenneth Wilson. Dr Wilson 732 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: would know him as well. That was one thing. Then 733 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,400 Speaker 1: the other thing is the picture he described was a 734 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: version of that photograph that was only published once, right, 735 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: because it's the one that he described showed a little 736 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: bit of land and the picture that we've all seen 737 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,240 Speaker 1: had the land cropped out. Yeah. Pretty, I mean it's 738 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,319 Speaker 1: a detail that not many people would have noticed. But 739 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 1: Boyd was like, hey, this thing was only published once 740 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: for so this guy either has a freakishly good and 741 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: weird memory or he's the one that took the picture 742 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,959 Speaker 1: to begin with. Because that detailed no one else would 743 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: have known. It's not it's not like proof positive or 744 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,360 Speaker 1: anything like that, but it's they're pretty pretty good points 745 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: to to kind of start to suspect. So it was 746 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: enough to get him to go try to find out 747 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: more because remember this was the eighties and the article 748 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: was from the seventies, and apparently people hadn't paid Munch attention. 749 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: So we went to go find Ian weather All and 750 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 1: found out that he was dead. So he went and 751 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: found another guy who was mentioned in the article, Christian Spurling, 752 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 1: who was Duke weather All's stepson, and he had been 753 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 1: involved as well, and apparently, according to Alistair Boyd, when 754 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 1: he went and tracked down Christian Spurling, Spurling confessed to him, Yeah, 755 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 1: ninety three years old. Uh, it sounds like a sort 756 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 1: of a deathbed thing. He was like, it was us 757 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 1: the whole time. He's like, also, I have something else 758 00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,799 Speaker 1: to tell you. I I hit a person with my 759 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 1: car and drove off. While they're like, no, no no, no, 760 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:06,320 Speaker 1: who cares, Let's talk about this picture. Um. So here's 761 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: the deal, uh, he said, because of the way that Duke, Um, 762 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: I guess step stepdad. That was a stepdad. Yeah, Duke 763 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,320 Speaker 1: was a stepdad. So the way my stepdad was treated 764 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 1: by the Daily Mail and sold out and made to 765 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 1: look foolish. Uh, he went out to get even it 766 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 1: really stuck in his cross and get revenge. So he 767 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: enlisted his son and and myself when I was a 768 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,760 Speaker 1: young boy, to go out build a model monster onto 769 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: a toy submarine and staged this photograph with which included 770 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 1: you know, they included the background and part of the 771 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: you know that not the zoomed in look. You can't 772 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,760 Speaker 1: really tell that it's locked nests. But in the original photo, 773 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 1: like we said, you could see it and they did 774 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 1: that on purpose as proof that it was Locknets. Yeah, 775 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: and then they got through Bor's chambers the Common Friend, 776 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,680 Speaker 1: they somehow persuaded Dr Wilson to take the film Habit 777 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,839 Speaker 1: of Eloped and then pretend like he had taken the 778 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 1: picture and sell it to the Daily Mail. Basically act 779 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:10,040 Speaker 1: as a front man to this whole ruse. Again, probably 780 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,800 Speaker 1: the greatest front man you could have ever gotten, because 781 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,160 Speaker 1: the whole world for decades was like, Nope, this guy 782 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been party to a fraud. And he was 783 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: party to a fraud. And I could not find any 784 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: explanation for why he would have been because, I mean, 785 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,160 Speaker 1: they call it the Surgeon's photo rather than the Wilson 786 00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:32,319 Speaker 1: photo because he really wanted to back away from it, 787 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,480 Speaker 1: which I think legitimized it more in some people's minds. 788 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 1: But he I have no idea why he joined up 789 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,239 Speaker 1: on this, this hoax, but he did. I wonder if 790 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,319 Speaker 1: he had something on him. Well, a lot of people 791 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: actually say they still don't buy it. He still don't 792 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 1: buy that. That that that it doesn't make sense that 793 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 1: Wilson would have been a part of this. That some people, 794 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:57,920 Speaker 1: even one guy cited a toy expert said, a submarine 795 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,760 Speaker 1: toy toy submarine from the thirties. Probably he wouldn't have 796 00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,640 Speaker 1: have have you know, done the trick. Yeah, that sounds 797 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: like the worst kind of internet pet ant case. Close. 798 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 1: Actually toy submarines would have looked more like this, right. Um, 799 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,000 Speaker 1: but sure people have tried to poke various holes in 800 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,439 Speaker 1: the story that it's a fake over the years, which 801 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 1: is interesting too, but it's really saying something that Also 802 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: to keep in mind, Alistair Boyd, the guy who who 803 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: told the world the story of how this this famous 804 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,799 Speaker 1: photo of lock the Lockness Monster was hoaxed, He's like, 805 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: that does nothing to his belief. He's like, I'm sure 806 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,759 Speaker 1: as yeah, I'm more sure of than I'm sure of 807 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,279 Speaker 1: anything that there's a something in lockness. And I think 808 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: he said something like he would if he were a 809 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: wealthy man, who would spend the rest of his life 810 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: trying to catch another glimpse of it, because like we said, 811 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,760 Speaker 1: you know, it kind of gets under your skin when 812 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:54,240 Speaker 1: when when you like get into the Lockness monster. So 813 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,480 Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties, Um, here are some more explanations, 814 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 1: because here's the deal. Like they're like, you have to 815 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:10,319 Speaker 1: prove something exists, not disprove or wait, not prove that. 816 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: Like the burden of proof should be on people that 817 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 1: say this is a thing. Yeah, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Yeah. 818 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:20,439 Speaker 1: There have been people over the years that have tried 819 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,799 Speaker 1: to explain it as other things and like baby, people 820 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:28,160 Speaker 1: are seeing something, but what they're really seeing is blank. Uh. 821 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,160 Speaker 1: A man named Steve Feltham in the nineteen nineties. He's 822 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 1: one of these guys that you know, kind of became 823 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 1: a monitor but obsessed. I'm not gonna say that, but no, 824 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,759 Speaker 1: you could call him upset. I came so interested that 825 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: he quit his job and did this for thirty years. 826 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,359 Speaker 1: But he said, here's what I think it is. He said, 827 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,439 Speaker 1: I think it's a It's a Wells catfish. And if 828 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,640 Speaker 1: you look up Wells w E l S catfish, these 829 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,840 Speaker 1: are you know, everyone knows catfish can get large, but 830 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 1: these are European catfish that they look photoshops when you 831 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: look them up online and two or three people holding 832 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:07,799 Speaker 1: these things up in Europe, they get larger. They are huge, 833 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,880 Speaker 1: like up the huge, like thirteen feet long, which, by 834 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,640 Speaker 1: the way, you don't forget that one. Robert Ryan expedition 835 00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 1: found something that was the size of a small whale 836 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:24,319 Speaker 1: about fifteen feet long. Ye okay, so this is what 837 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,240 Speaker 1: But this is a This is a really big point 838 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 1: that Steve Feltham is saying this. This guy left his 839 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 1: life in the nineties, holds the Guinness record for the 840 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:38,520 Speaker 1: longest um search for lockness, which is just dumb. It 841 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,960 Speaker 1: is Guinness. You know, they lost their way a long 842 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 1: time ago. They really did so. Um, Like he's saying, 843 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,560 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a I don't think it's a 844 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,800 Speaker 1: sea monster. I don't even think it's an undiscovered species. 845 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,600 Speaker 1: I think it's a giant catfish that lives in the lake. Um. 846 00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,600 Speaker 1: That's a big deal that he's saying that, And that 847 00:49:55,680 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 1: seems to be a trend among Lockness UM enthusiasts that 848 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,600 Speaker 1: it's kind of turned a little more toward Hey, let's 849 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,440 Speaker 1: let's use our time and effort and energy to figuring 850 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,279 Speaker 1: out how it's not a sea monster um, which is 851 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,640 Speaker 1: a really big change and not just like lockness monster searches. 852 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,680 Speaker 1: But it says a lot about the world too, you know. Yeah, 853 00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,280 Speaker 1: And I think this wells catfish would certainly explain all 854 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:30,760 Speaker 1: of those unexplained underwater moving side scan sonar images. Um, 855 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:32,520 Speaker 1: like they're not the most detailed things in the world. 856 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,040 Speaker 1: It's not a photograph, right, Uh. And those these things 857 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:37,799 Speaker 1: are I mean, just look up Wells catfish. They are 858 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,640 Speaker 1: tremendous and large. Right. Okay, So that's a pretty good explanation. 859 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,720 Speaker 1: A less good explanation that we just have to mention though, 860 00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,319 Speaker 1: is that the elephant thing. Yeah, there's a Storian in 861 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,279 Speaker 1: two thousand six who said, well, you know, I just 862 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,200 Speaker 1: came across some evidence that circuses traveling through Scotland used 863 00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,640 Speaker 1: to stop and rest at at loch Ness and they 864 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,360 Speaker 1: would let the animals out to wander around. And elephants 865 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,520 Speaker 1: love to swim, which is the crossover thing between the 866 00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: episodes today, right, Um, elephants love to swim, and probably 867 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,920 Speaker 1: what some of these sightings in the thirties were of 868 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:21,359 Speaker 1: the Lochness Monster were elephants swimming and Lockness. Yeah, completely 869 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: away from the rest of the circus, right, and the 870 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,520 Speaker 1: people that were resting on the shoreline. And then after 871 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,920 Speaker 1: after he finished, he said, but uh, and here's the 872 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,920 Speaker 1: deal with all the supposed evidence over the years. It's 873 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, that stone carving, it's manuscripts from pre medieval times. 874 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:46,680 Speaker 1: It's um stories, like real documentary evidence that these photos 875 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 1: and things, none of them there's no hard evidence. They 876 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,880 Speaker 1: can all be interpreted as they're explained away as different 877 00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,840 Speaker 1: other things. Yeah, right, And also there's like there's a 878 00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,320 Speaker 1: you know, that whole thing developed where Uh what was that? 879 00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:05,680 Speaker 1: Sir Peter Scott said it was a plesiosaur, right um, 880 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,520 Speaker 1: which is an extinct marine reptile, not a dinosaur. It 881 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,040 Speaker 1: was a marine reptile. Other people said, no, it's a 882 00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,200 Speaker 1: sore pod, which makes even less sense because a sore 883 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:20,240 Speaker 1: pod was a terrestrial um dinosaur which had never taken 884 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,480 Speaker 1: to water, so what would it be doing in loch nests? 885 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:24,959 Speaker 1: But for decades those were the kind of the two 886 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,120 Speaker 1: conceptions that the Lochness monster was a surviving sore pod 887 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 1: or a surviving plesiosaur. And there are a lot of 888 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,959 Speaker 1: problems with those. Number one, both of those those um 889 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:40,279 Speaker 1: types of animals when extinct tens of millions of years ago. Yeah, 890 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,600 Speaker 1: you could stop there had it not been for the 891 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,080 Speaker 1: cela can't, right, But we respect the sela can't and 892 00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,080 Speaker 1: so we should explore further. Uh. And then you have 893 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,960 Speaker 1: the problem of the fact that a sauropod is a 894 00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:57,840 Speaker 1: terrestrial beast that breathes air, so while it could swim, 895 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,680 Speaker 1: it would have to come up every few seconds and breathe. 896 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:06,200 Speaker 1: And ten reports a year over the history of of 897 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:08,640 Speaker 1: loch Ness with you know, close to a half a 898 00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,520 Speaker 1: million people visiting every year, right, you would see if 899 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,759 Speaker 1: this thing has to breathe every few seconds, there would 900 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,240 Speaker 1: be a lot more sightings than that. Yes, and even 901 00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,279 Speaker 1: if it were a pleasi asaur, which again is a 902 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,759 Speaker 1: marine reptile, they didn't have gills, so they would have 903 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,319 Speaker 1: to come up for air too, So same thing. Right. 904 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,440 Speaker 1: So the fact that it's actually kind of rare for 905 00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 1: a nest sighting to be reported, Um, that doesn't make 906 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,560 Speaker 1: any sense because these things would have to come up 907 00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,919 Speaker 1: quite a bit. And we're also I mean, if it's 908 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:41,080 Speaker 1: just one, that means that this thing survived seventy or 909 00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,400 Speaker 1: sixty million years, So it's a sixty million year old animal, 910 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,560 Speaker 1: which makes zero sense. But some people say, well, no, no, 911 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 1: you could have like a continuous line of these things, 912 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,560 Speaker 1: could you, though probably not, And the reason why you 913 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,400 Speaker 1: couldn't is because the lock is just too small to 914 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,920 Speaker 1: sustain probably even one pleasius or a one sore of 915 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,080 Speaker 1: pod um let alone that I think Sir Peter Scott 916 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,799 Speaker 1: and Robert Ryan's in their paper estimated that you'd have 917 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:14,040 Speaker 1: to have about thirty breeding individuals to continue a line 918 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,200 Speaker 1: um I guess in in the lake, and there's just 919 00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,520 Speaker 1: not enough food. There's something like twenty two tons of 920 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,520 Speaker 1: biomass or fish for them to eat, and that just 921 00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,759 Speaker 1: would not be nearly enough. Yeah, that's uh So if 922 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,399 Speaker 1: you have like, let's say thirty of these that are 923 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,800 Speaker 1: mating and breeding, creating more little nesties over the years, 924 00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,560 Speaker 1: and a lake that small and now it's deep, but 925 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,279 Speaker 1: it is a pretty small lake that if you have 926 00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,839 Speaker 1: thirty of these things, let's say conservatively, and they all 927 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,960 Speaker 1: have to come up and breathe every few seconds, you'd 928 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,439 Speaker 1: see little little fingers popping up out of the water 929 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,520 Speaker 1: all over the place, and at some point there would 930 00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,400 Speaker 1: be a bone or a scale, or a tooth or 931 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:57,200 Speaker 1: a whole body something washed up on the shore. And 932 00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,920 Speaker 1: that's never happened. Yeah, and that's a big problem. I'm 933 00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,520 Speaker 1: despite thousands of people saying I saw something, and some 934 00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,880 Speaker 1: of their stuff kind of bearing some similarities to one another. 935 00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:11,680 Speaker 1: Despite the films and the photographs and all that, there's 936 00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: not any actual hard evidence, like you said, like a 937 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,480 Speaker 1: bone or a tooth or something like that that shows 938 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,480 Speaker 1: there's something in the lake that it that is real. Yeah, 939 00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,719 Speaker 1: my money on figuring this out. Um. Last summer in 940 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:31,680 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, researchers finally took samples of environmental d 941 00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:36,440 Speaker 1: n A E d n A and this will tell you. Uh. 942 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:41,000 Speaker 1: In fact, it did yield about five million individual DNA sequences. 943 00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,680 Speaker 1: This will tell you basically anything that has lived in 944 00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:49,360 Speaker 1: this lake. Right, maybe not forever, where is it forever? 945 00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,000 Speaker 1: I don't know how far back it would go, as 946 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,600 Speaker 1: long as it had viable DNA, like it hadn't hadn't 947 00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,319 Speaker 1: deteriorated yet, so it could be like a whatever, a 948 00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:02,160 Speaker 1: scale of this monster. Um. And this has worked before. 949 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,960 Speaker 1: I believe that you'll lit evidence of unknown life when 950 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:11,200 Speaker 1: they discovered in human species called the dennis Ovans. Yeah, 951 00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:15,759 Speaker 1: this works. They have these five million sequences and now 952 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,880 Speaker 1: they're just plowing through them basically. Yeah, now they have 953 00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,040 Speaker 1: to they have to analyze them and see if anything 954 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,280 Speaker 1: that hasn't been identified before it turns up. It's pretty smart, 955 00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,400 Speaker 1: it's pretty it's amazing. It's like they took a photograph, 956 00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,759 Speaker 1: a snapshot of all of the d n a that's 957 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,360 Speaker 1: in Locknest right now. It's a great idea, Yeah, and 958 00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,000 Speaker 1: then they're going to sort through it. It could yield something. 959 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,440 Speaker 1: Who knows, Like I'm not saying like just saying that 960 00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,680 Speaker 1: the thing is not a plesiosaur or not a sora 961 00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,439 Speaker 1: pod or is not even a giant catfish or something 962 00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,759 Speaker 1: like that. It doesn't mean that there's not it's not 963 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:50,399 Speaker 1: possible there's something there that we we don't know about yet. 964 00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,800 Speaker 1: But if if this doesn't show anything, then it should 965 00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,040 Speaker 1: Well it never will close the case entirely, but it 966 00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,719 Speaker 1: will for a lot more people, I think. And then 967 00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:04,279 Speaker 1: there's one other really big explanation against especially with the 968 00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,960 Speaker 1: whole like surviving dinosaur thing. The Lockness is only ten 969 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,920 Speaker 1: thousand years old. It's not like it was around before, 970 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,080 Speaker 1: you know, when the dinosaurs were swimming around and they 971 00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:17,160 Speaker 1: could have found their way into Lochness and as the 972 00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:22,760 Speaker 1: as um As as the sea levels uh lowered and 973 00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,880 Speaker 1: Lockness was separated from the sea, they got trapped there. 974 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,720 Speaker 1: Because Lockness didn't exist until it was gouged out of 975 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,600 Speaker 1: the earth by the um glaciers during the Last Ice 976 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,880 Speaker 1: Age ten thousand years ago. It's just too young for 977 00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:40,000 Speaker 1: something like that. Too young, But Chuck, if they ever 978 00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,280 Speaker 1: do find it, it will enjoy protection because they drew 979 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:47,400 Speaker 1: up like a protective order. Basically, that says that any 980 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,440 Speaker 1: new species found in the lake, including the Lochness monster um, 981 00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,840 Speaker 1: if found, the people finding it can take a DNA 982 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,800 Speaker 1: sample and they have to release it and they have 983 00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,320 Speaker 1: to make sure that it survives. They have to checked 984 00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,200 Speaker 1: it pretty neat. It is neat. So do you think 985 00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:09,480 Speaker 1: real quick, do you think there's anything in there? Uh? No, 986 00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:12,280 Speaker 1: so nothing we don't know about. You don't think there's 987 00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:13,840 Speaker 1: anything in that? Well, it depends on if you kind 988 00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,480 Speaker 1: a giant catfish is something we don't know about. I 989 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:18,800 Speaker 1: would say we know about that. Yeah, I think it. 990 00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:23,240 Speaker 1: I think it's can be explained. Okay, Um, have you 991 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,240 Speaker 1: seen incident at Lochness? No, we talked about it in 992 00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:32,000 Speaker 1: another another podcast, I believe. Oh really, yeah, another episode. 993 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,000 Speaker 1: I can't remember when, but yeah, we talked about it. 994 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,560 Speaker 1: I wonder what that would have been about. I've been 995 00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,960 Speaker 1: in the monster, I bet. But that's the Verner hurt 996 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,880 Speaker 1: Zog like it's worth watching because Verner Hurtzog is on 997 00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,920 Speaker 1: screen and anytime you can get him talking or on screen, 998 00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,960 Speaker 1: just just watch. But it is Uh, it is a 999 00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:55,480 Speaker 1: mockumentary about Verner Hurtzog going to make a documentary about 1000 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,920 Speaker 1: Lochness and then while they're there to making of them 1001 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,080 Speaker 1: aking of and while they're there they see unexplained things. 1002 00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:08,520 Speaker 1: It's good though, Huh, it's it's a fun Friday night 1003 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:15,360 Speaker 1: watch all right Friday. But just to listen to Zock, right, 1004 00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:19,760 Speaker 1: it's great. Uh, we have a vase of making it talk. Yeah, exactly. 1005 00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,000 Speaker 1: So is it on Netflix? Do you know? Or Amazon Prime? 1006 00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,640 Speaker 1: I have no idea. Well we'll find out, all right. Well, 1007 00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,280 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about locking you got 1008 00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,320 Speaker 1: anything else? If you want to know more about Lockness, 1009 00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,520 Speaker 1: Monster Lockness, or Scotland or anything like that, go on 1010 00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,480 Speaker 1: to the internet. It's a really wide and deep resource, 1011 00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:41,120 Speaker 1: deeper than Lockness even. And since I said that, it's 1012 00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:45,520 Speaker 1: time for a listener mail. Uh. This is a listener 1013 00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,640 Speaker 1: mail by way of our old friends at co ed Awesome. 1014 00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,600 Speaker 1: We heard from Anne our friends as a reminder many 1015 00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,560 Speaker 1: years ago, when we were just a fledgling podcast. Um 1016 00:59:55,600 --> 01:00:01,600 Speaker 1: this group nonprofit called co ed Cooperative for Education. UH. 1017 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,520 Speaker 1: They invited us to go to Guatemala, which we did 1018 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,120 Speaker 1: you UH Me and Jerry, which was a crazy fun trip. 1019 01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,040 Speaker 1: It was and we learned a lot and it was 1020 01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:12,880 Speaker 1: very eye opening them any ways, and we've been kind 1021 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,400 Speaker 1: of working with them unofficially since then, so they have 1022 01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,080 Speaker 1: a new drive going on. UM. They are on a 1023 01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,520 Speaker 1: mission right now to keep eight thousand girls from dropping 1024 01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,240 Speaker 1: out of school in Guatemala. And as a reminder, they're 1025 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,760 Speaker 1: they're kind of the whole jam is to break the 1026 01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:29,760 Speaker 1: cycle of poverty in Guatemala, and the way to do 1027 01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:33,440 Speaker 1: this is through education because if not for education, then 1028 01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,200 Speaker 1: kids at a very young age stopped going to school 1029 01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,680 Speaker 1: because they need to work and help support their family. 1030 01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,560 Speaker 1: So they're about halfway to that goal. Everyone to keep 1031 01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,800 Speaker 1: a thousand girls from dropping out of school in Guatemala. 1032 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:47,960 Speaker 1: And UH forty one of the stuff you should know 1033 01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,360 Speaker 1: army UH sponsored a student last year and that's great, 1034 01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,920 Speaker 1: but we need more of you UM in Guatemala. It 1035 01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:56,840 Speaker 1: is he started the school year and there are still 1036 01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,160 Speaker 1: a few dozen kids waiting to be sponsored. Sponsor ring 1037 01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,400 Speaker 1: a student costs eighty dollars a month or co ED 1038 01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,600 Speaker 1: will pair you with someone else if you can have 1039 01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:08,560 Speaker 1: sponsor someone at forty dollars a month. Uh, and to 1040 01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:10,680 Speaker 1: meet the students who need sponsors, which you can actually 1041 01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:14,000 Speaker 1: do online. Pretty powerful stuff. Just go to Cooperative for 1042 01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,760 Speaker 1: Education dot org yep. And we've seen it with our 1043 01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:19,960 Speaker 1: own eyes that they do really good work, so we 1044 01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,880 Speaker 1: can vouch for them. And uh, it's money well well 1045 01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,160 Speaker 1: donated for sure. Yeah. Or if you want to go 1046 01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:26,960 Speaker 1: down there like we did, they still take groups down 1047 01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,840 Speaker 1: there twice a year and you can kind of, you 1048 01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,680 Speaker 1: know very much see it with your own eyeballs and uh, 1049 01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:38,280 Speaker 1: it's very very good program and it's helping the uh, 1050 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,600 Speaker 1: the whole population, but especially the young women of Guatemala yep. 1051 01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,840 Speaker 1: And give them the website again, Chuck. It is Cooperative 1052 01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:48,280 Speaker 1: for Education dot org. Okay, so go check it out, everybody. 1053 01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,040 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, if you want to get in 1054 01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:52,880 Speaker 1: touch with us, you can go to uh stuff you 1055 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,040 Speaker 1: should know dot com and check out our social links. 1056 01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,360 Speaker 1: I've got a website too, called the Josh Clarkway dot com. 1057 01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:00,440 Speaker 1: And if you want to send an email to Chuck, 1058 01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:04,200 Speaker 1: Jerry and Me, you can address it to Stuff Podcast 1059 01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:11,080 Speaker 1: at how Stuff Works dot com for more on this 1060 01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,800 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is that how stuff works 1061 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:20,960 Speaker 1: dot com mhm