1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: M Hey everybody, I'm Robert Evans, and this is once 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: again Behind the Bastards, the show where we tell you 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: everything you don't know about the very worst people in 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: all of history. Now, this is a show where I 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: read a story about someone or someone's terrible from from 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: history to a guest who is coming in cold. And 7 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: my guest today is the inimitable Daniel van Kirk. Hello, Daniel. 8 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: You are a comedian. You are a writer, host of 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: Dumb People, Town, Hindsight, pen Pals, three great podcasts than you, 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna guess you can throw a pretty good 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: punch because you look kind of yoked. I just think 12 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: the listeners should know that. Thanks. It's all I'm going 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: for is yoked. I am working towards that being my 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: only introduction. Alright, this next guy is Yokes. Please welcome 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: to the Yokes as Hell. Just saw him on the 16 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: street and brought him into the podcast. I am going 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: to fight that rule that you can't do stand up 18 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: in a tank time that a rule. Can't think about it? 19 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: Would you listen to anybody talk to you on a 20 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: microphone in the tank top. I was Daniel O'Brien's subordinate 21 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: for years and he wears a tank top of the time, 22 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: so maybe he's broken used to it. Yeah. Um, all right, 23 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: So today we are talking about Hollywood and the Nazis, 24 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: I mean, and how the two helped one another. You know, 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: you say that US guests come into this cold and 26 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: I am ready for that. That's beautiful. Well, what do 27 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: you think when you think of like how Hollywood reacted 28 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: to the Nazis, what do you think of? Well, one, 29 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: I think there's that documentary on Netflix about a whole 30 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: bunch of directors get sent to like make propaganda films. 31 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: I mean they made propaganda for the US against the Nazis. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, 32 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. Are we saying the idea of people who 33 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: are we pro within the Hollywood elite. It's a little 34 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: more complicated than that. When we think about Hollywood the Nazis, 35 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: we think about what you're talking about, those like why 36 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,639 Speaker 1: we fight documentaries and like bugs Bunny beating up Hitler 37 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: and and all that stuff that all came after the 38 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: war had started. When we talk about the period from 39 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: when the Nazis took power to the beginning of World 40 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: War two and what Hollywood, it is a very different 41 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: tale and a less positive one towards Hollywood. So that's 42 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: what we're gonna talk about. All right, Well, I'm going 43 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: to start us off with some background on the motion 44 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: picture industry because I think it's going to be useful 45 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: to sort of set the tone that this story comes 46 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: in on. The first good movie going experience probably happened 47 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: on December in Paris. This is when Tin Lumiser Brothers 48 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: films were screened, and it was sort of the first 49 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: time where projection technology was advanced enough that, like it 50 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: was a good picture, you'd actually want to go and 51 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: see this rather than looking at like a grainy like 52 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: you know, it wouldn't be clear what was really happening. 53 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: So that was the first like good movie going experience. 54 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: The first permanent movie theater, the Nickelodeon, was opened in 55 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: Pittsburgh in nineteen o five. The first full length movie 56 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: came out a year later. It was an Australian film 57 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: about the outlaw Ned Kelly. But of course Americans quickly 58 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: grew to dominate the industry, which you may have caught, yeah, 59 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: that it started in Pittsburgh. Yeah, the first movie theater. 60 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: I would never have guessed that right either. Yeah, Like 61 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Okay, yeah, all right, I guess that in a 62 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: Permanti Brothers sandwich your historic. I don't know what that 63 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: means because I've never been to Pittsburgh either, but I 64 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: see it on all those food jounls. It's like the 65 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: sandwich where they put everything on the sandwich, like fries 66 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: and cole slaw. It's Permanti Brothers supposed to be amazing. Well, 67 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,839 Speaker 1: our three Pittsburgh listeners are over the moon right now. 68 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: We're here for you. We're here for you, guys. Today 69 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: is for you Pittsburgh. Obviously, one American was more dominant 70 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: than others in the early film industry. Thomas Alba Edison 71 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: now William Dixon, a Scottish inventor, actually created the kinetoscope, 72 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: which is one of the very first movie cameras, but 73 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: he worked for Thomas Edison, and so in eighteen ninety 74 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: two Edison got the patent for like the first functional 75 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: movie camera that you could really sell as a commercial device. 76 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: This made him even wealthier, although who's are already pretty 77 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: rich at the time. Dixon, because he didn't get rich 78 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: off of inventing the movie camera, went on to become 79 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: one of the first video pornographers and all of history 80 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: and to make kids fortune. Yeah, he's that's the prequel 81 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: to the Deuce. Yes, yes, yes. Edison meanwhile just kept 82 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: buying patents related to the motion picture industry and suing 83 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: anyone he caught infringing upon them. Uh. In nineteen o eight, 84 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: he was a leading mind behind the creation of the 85 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: Motion Picture Patents Company, which was a trust that basically 86 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: bonded everyone who owned a film patent together in one 87 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: organization so they could control which films could be made 88 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: and basically monopolized the art form of filming. Things Like 89 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: anytime there's a new industry, especially in the eighteen hundreds 90 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: and then the early nineteen yards, it was like three 91 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: or four people being like, well, let's just on all 92 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: of it. Let's just down all of it and stop 93 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: it from ever changing, because that was Edison's idea. He 94 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: figured movies would always be like five or ten minutes 95 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: shorts that people watched a brunch of in a row, 96 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: and he was like, well, let's just be the only 97 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: ones who get to do that. Right, it went, and 98 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: actually that's what's happening today in the car industry. Over 99 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 1: the past like twenty to thirty years and even up 100 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: till today. With what Tesla is trying to fight is like, 101 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: you guys bought all of this electric technology back in 102 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: the eighties so that you never had to release it 103 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: because you controlled it all. So it was basically illegal 104 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: starting in nineteen o eight to make a film that 105 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: Thomas Edison didn't personally approve of. Uh, And he was 106 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: from the beginning very concerned with the moral character of films. Quote, 107 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: in my opinion, nothing is of greater importance to the 108 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: success of the motion picture interests than films of good 109 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: moral tone. No thank you, which is always the best part. 110 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: Somebody's like by my moral tones, Like, no, I understand 111 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: what you're saying, But do you also understanding yourself defining that? Yeah, 112 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: if you everyone judges their own morals. Yeah, everybody has 113 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: a moral tone. You're just saying yours is right. And 114 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: in Edison's case, I think that meant he didn't want 115 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: films to show immigrants, so well, I guess that's his 116 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: moral tone. One of the things happening during this period 117 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: was what's known today as the Americanized the immigrant movement, 118 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: which was a reaction to the fact that immigration into 119 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: the United States had switched from being mostly people from 120 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: the British Isles, Germany and Northwest Europe, to people from 121 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: scary places like Russia, the Balkans and most horrifying of all, Italy. 122 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, which we all know what happens when too 123 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: many Italians get into a country. Good stuff, great espresso, 124 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: terrible pizza. I think people like just don't think enough 125 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: about the time in our country where you know the 126 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: difference between racism and prejudice, right, prejudices. I judge you 127 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,119 Speaker 1: based off what I know about you, and racism tends 128 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: to be at judge you based off how you look. Yeah, 129 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: so prejudice like was equal to like racism, but you 130 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: had to identify like are you Irish? Are you Italian? 131 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: And then once find out, then we prejudicize. Is that 132 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: a way we prejudicize you. But there was this time 133 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: where it was like it wasn't based off color of skin. 134 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: It was like this thing like, well you're from there, 135 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: No thanks. They would say it was based off color 136 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: of skin because a lot of people in nineteen o 137 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: eight would have looked in an Italian, a lot of 138 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: like American white people would have looked in an Italian 139 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: and said, well that's not a white man. Really. Yeah, 140 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: the Irish were the last of the white people to 141 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: become officially white essentially, but it was a process of 142 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: being accepted as white for all of what we now 143 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: just say, like, oh, everybody in fucking Europe is white 144 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: as well, that's Europe. But that was not the case 145 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: from the beginning, and this is the period where it's starting. Well, 146 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: I don't know much about Edison in specific, but I 147 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: know this was a big factor in the movie industry 148 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: because the Americanized the Immigrant movement campaigned for the regulation 149 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: of the film industry. They were the first people to 150 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: want to censor films, and so Edison was very much 151 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: sort of reacting to that. The Americanized the Immigrants movement 152 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: was unsuccessful in actually creating laws to govern films, but 153 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: their arguments clearly had an impact on people like Edison. 154 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: A war started to brew in the nascent motion picture industry, 155 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: and on one side were people like Edison. And uh, 156 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to read you a quote from a Moving 157 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: Picture World, which is like one of the first industry 158 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: trade magazines. A critic wrote it in nineteen ten, and 159 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: he gave a horrified description of a movie theater um 160 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: and This is from the textbook Taking Fame to Market. 161 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: So this will give you an idea of kind of 162 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: what some people in the film industry, sort of on 163 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: Edison side of things, were horrified of when they looked 164 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: into a movie theater. The audience also stood for one 165 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: or two high class films without any fuss, although we 166 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: are sure they didn't understand what they were looking at 167 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: any more than they would a Chinese opera. I would 168 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: have been more comfortable on board a cattle train than 169 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: where I sat. There were five hundred smells combined in 170 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: one One young lady fainted and had to be carried 171 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: out of the theater. I can forgive that all right, 172 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: as people with sensitive noses should not go slumming. But 173 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: what is hardest to swallow is that the taste of 174 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: the seething mass of human cattle are the tastes that 175 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: have dominated, or at least set the standards of American 176 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: moving pictures. This is like a film critic in nineteen 177 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: ten and he's commenting on the type of people in 178 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 1: the movie theater that you're going to the movie you're slumming, Yes, 179 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 1: but not based on people who are seeing movies, or 180 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 1: but based on based on both the people who are 181 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: seeing movies are a lot of them are immigrants and 182 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: horror people because it's a very affordable way to spend 183 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: your time, but also the people making movies and running 184 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: movie theaters were mainly lower class entrepreneurs who had come 185 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: to the country from Europe and were either Jewish or 186 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: Catholic immigrants, which at this point, if you're not a 187 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: white Anglo Saxon Protestant, you're below what they would declare 188 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: white people on the totem pole. So that's a big 189 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: factor in this is that these people who are Jewish 190 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: immigrants from Eastern Europe and Catholic immigrants from Eastern Europe 191 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: are moving into the United States and starting movie theaters 192 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: and other people like them are going to see these shows, 193 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: and the movies that are being made are being made 194 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: to play to this audience, and that is scary to 195 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: the whitest people who have ever lived. What are they watching? 196 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: I mean, they're probably not watching that much in the 197 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: way of movies. I'm guessing nothing good because we don't 198 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: really get it was low round entertainment. It was very 199 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: low rent entertainment, very short, cheap kind of like it 200 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: wasn't the opera or the orchestra, and you're not in 201 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: this period seeing complicated movies with a three act structure 202 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: that are very long, and that doesn't come until a 203 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: little bit later in nineteen o nine. Because of this 204 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: trust Edison puts together, independent film basically becomes illegal. The 205 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: now outlaw filmmakers call themselves Independence. They keep right on 206 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: making movies, using illegal equipment and buying foreign film stock. 207 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: To get around the trust. Edison forms a subsidiary, the 208 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: General Film Company, to confiscate illegal equipment and basically bust 209 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: into movie theaters and shut down on his because he 210 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: owns the patents. You can't make a movie unters for film. Yeah, 211 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: and at this point the film industry is all in 212 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: basically New York, the East Coast. But it's like the 213 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: cops showed up and there was a fight between his 214 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: people and the Independence. They would just say, well, we're 215 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: recovering what we own exactly, and they've got the law 216 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: on their side. These people are breaking the law by 217 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: filming movies illegally, you know, because they don't have the 218 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: right to use a movie camera to make a movie 219 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: if Edison doesn't approve of it. Yeah, Now the good 220 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: news is Edison's plan backfired. The General Film Company's iron 221 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: fist just pushed independence to get into manufacturing film them selves. 222 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: So Edison's not I'm not going to sell you film, 223 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: I'm not going to sell you cameras. So these people 224 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: who are making independent films and running small movie theaters 225 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: start getting their own cameras from outside of the US 226 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: because there's other people making movie cameras kind of on 227 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: the edge, like they're definitely breaking the law a bunch, 228 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's also nineteen o eight, nineteen 229 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: o nine, so the law doesn't mean quite what it 230 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: does today, which is why Edison's hiring goons to enforce it. 231 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: You know, so many of these independent early motion picture 232 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: moguls were people like Carl Lamel. They were immigrants themselves, 233 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: and Carl Lamel was born in southern Germany. He moved 234 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: to the United States as a young man and worked 235 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: a series of odd jobs until, in his recollection quote, 236 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: one rainy night, I dropped into one of those hole 237 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: in the wall five cent motion picture theaters. The pictures 238 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: made me laugh. Although they were very short in the 239 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: projection jumpie. I liked them, and so did everybody. Else. 240 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: I knew right away that I wanted to get into 241 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: the motion picture business. So Lamel got into the business 242 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: of running theaters. But then he became a distributor himself 243 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: because he basically it was too much of a hassle 244 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: to rely on the distributor to send him films, and 245 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: that also meant he was dependent on Edison Um. So 246 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: he eventually starts his own production outfit, the Independent Motion 247 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: Picture Company, in order to make films on his own terms, 248 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: because he's just there's so much demand and Edison and 249 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: his guys, the people who have actual approval, aren't making 250 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: enough movies and they're sort of throttling the supply to people. 251 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: So a guy like Lambol's like, well, funk it. I'll 252 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: just make my own movies and I'll rent them out 253 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: the other theaters in addition to the theaters that I owned. 254 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: In nineteen twelve, Carl Limley renamed his company, which had 255 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: been the Independent Motion Picture Company Universal, where we get 256 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: Universal Studios. During the meeting where this was announced, he explained, quote, 257 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: that's what we're supplying, Universal Entertainment for the Universe Ours 258 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: Technica does note that he later admitted he'd gotten the 259 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: name from a Universal pipe fitting struck he'd seen out 260 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: the window during this meeting. So I think Carl was 261 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: just kind of literally the thing where somebody's like, what's 262 00:12:54,280 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: your name and you're like, uh, pencil fold it from 263 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: what was from That also proves like, don't put too 264 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: much thought into it just didn't work, because it clearly 265 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: it's worked. Everybody knows what Universal Pictures is, right. Uh So, Universal, 266 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: Paramount and Warner Brothers all started as essentially illegal film companies. 267 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: They fled from the East Coast to California, both because 268 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: the fantastic sunlight made it easier to shoot on sort 269 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: of the low tech ship that they were using in 270 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: those days, but also because the distance helped protect them 271 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: from Thomas Edison's wrath because you know, back then travel 272 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: Act you were saying, is not what the law is now, 273 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: because it's just like in the still running around to 274 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: where you just hire your own cops. That's part of it. 275 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: There's also US marshals and stuff, but they've got to 276 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: travel all the way across the country, and right, it 277 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: just means everything takes longer. And these guys are basically 278 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: playing a waiting game because they know that the trust 279 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: are starting to be busted during this period of time, right, 280 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: like Teddy Roosevelt. That's anything he was doing. So they're 281 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: thinking is if we get out to California, we can 282 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: make a shipload of money. We're off the radar. Yeah, 283 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: when we do have to pay fines, will make enough 284 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: money to make it worthwhile. And the lengthening of sort 285 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: of the time that everything will take eventually will win that. 286 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: I was wondering when we started, how did we end 287 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: up in California Fromburg? That's how we got it. Yeah. 288 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: So the guy who wound up slaying the beast of 289 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: the Motion Picture Patent Company was a dude named William Fox. 290 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: He started out running a film rental company. Soon he 291 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: started making movies to just like Lambley uh, and the 292 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: Fox Film Corporation became the foremost anti Edison studio. Fox 293 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: sued the mp PC and one, finally ending the patent 294 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: wars in nineteen fifteen. By that point, Hollywood had already 295 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: become the center of American and global film production. Now 296 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: all this is important to establish his background because Hollywood 297 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: was built by immigrants who had fought bigotry upon arriving 298 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: in America and had often fled persecution in their home countries. 299 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: Jewish people were overwhelmingly well represented within the industry. Here's 300 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: a quote from Ben Irwan's The Collaboration quote. The men 301 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: who created the studio system in Los Angeles where Jewish 302 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: immigrants of Eastern European descent. These men included William Fox 303 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: who founded Fox, It was b Mayor who ran MGM, 304 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: Adolf Zucker who ran Paramount, Harry Cone who ran Columbia Pictures, 305 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: Carl Lamley who ran Universal Pictures, and Jack and Harry 306 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: Warner who ran Warner Brothers. Of eighty five names engaged 307 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: in production, one study noted in the nineteen thirties, fifty 308 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: three are Jews. So this is a very Jewish dominated business. 309 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: These are people who had to fight in order to 310 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: be able to do their business against discrimination and stuff. 311 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: So these are You would think that when Adolf Hitler 312 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: rose to power in the early nineteen thirties, these diverse 313 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: and used to fighting bigots movie moguls would have stood 314 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: up to try and halt the spread of fascism. You 315 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: think that was their bread and butter, But you would 316 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: be wrong. Throughout the first seven years the Nazis were 317 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: in power, past the outbreak of World War two, zero 318 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: major motion pictures were made that addressed the Hitler or 319 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: the Nazis in a in a hugely negative LFE. There 320 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: was one movie that kind of sort of did up 321 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: until the outbreak of the war, but it came out 322 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: in like nineteen Well, that's what I was gonna ask you. 323 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: So when they got here, when did they switch from 324 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: making these nickel like quick short movies and start making 325 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: longer ones. That really starts to happen around nineteen Like 326 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: I said, I think it was nineteen o six was 327 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: the first close to full length movie, was like an 328 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: hour or something long. Nineteen ten was the birth of 329 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: the star system. That's when these people, so number one 330 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: these are, I think, is when they start doing talkies. 331 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: So in the silent movies, it becomes very useful to 332 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: have someone the audience is familiar with who, They understand 333 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: this person's gestures, their facial expressions and what because it's 334 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: important for the medium. So nineteen ten is when movie 335 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: stars start to become a thing. Which again nineteen fifteen 336 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: is when the patent wars in. So by nineteen fifteen 337 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: we have the beginnings of Hollywood as we know it. Yeah, 338 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: and I you know, from that episode that you did, 339 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: people should check out if they haven't already about Behind 340 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: the Bastards for Hitler, Like there, it was obvious what 341 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: his agenda was. It's so interesting to me that there's 342 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: this disconnect of this industry that has literally drived out 343 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: of the idea of like showing viewpoints or opinions are 344 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: telling stories. That there's a disconnect of the people who 345 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: have started this here in California that are like, yeah, 346 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: we're not even yeah addressing it. Yeah, and we what 347 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: what's undeniable? So this is a controversial thing that we're 348 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: going to get into today. What's undeniable is that during 349 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: the pre World War two years, but post the Nazis 350 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: coming to power, Hollywood made almost no films whatsoever that 351 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: even talked about the Nazis. The number of films that 352 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: mentioned Jewish people dropped by like sixty or seventy percent. Um. 353 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: They became very very careful about not offending the Germans. 354 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: Um the debate is over. You know. Harvard scholar been Urwand, 355 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: who wrote the collaboration, essentially argues that the studios worked 356 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: with the Nazis, and he presents compelling evidence to that point. Yeah, yeah, 357 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: and it's it's a it's a good book studios run 358 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: by predominantly Jewish, Yes, yes, and we'll we'll get into 359 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: how this all started. I do want to announce upfront 360 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: that Urwand has some detractors, um, people who don't think 361 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: collaboration is a fair term. And so I'll be getting 362 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: in when where there are areas of controversy, I'll be 363 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: getting into it a little bit because this is very 364 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: far from settled history. But I think Irwan's arguments are 365 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 1: more convincing than the other one. So that is kind 366 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: of largely the tact we're going to be taken here. Um. Now, 367 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: Irwan traces the start of the collaboration to the film 368 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: All Quiet on the Western Front, which came out in 369 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty, almost three years before Hitler was in charge, 370 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: but during the period where Nazis had attained a lot 371 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: of power in both the Reichstag and on the streets. Now. 372 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: All Quiet on the Western Front was based off of 373 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: a classic book about German soldiers in World War One, 374 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: It's It's Wonderful. Um. It was not an anti German film, 375 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: but it was anti war and very critical of the 376 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: pro war sentiment in the country that had driven Germany 377 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: to ruin in World War One. It gives you a 378 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: sympathetic oh yeah, like take on the German soldier. Oh yeah, 379 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: because it's it's a devastating emotionally um. But the Nazis 380 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: hated it because again, like you remember that scene where 381 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: like the boys are in class and their teachers making 382 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: going to war seem like this like wonderful, awesome adventure, 383 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: and they're all, yeah, horribly, Um, the Nazis did not 384 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: want them, and yeah, yeah, the Nazis hated that because 385 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: their Nazis they were trying to get we want we 386 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: want to get kids excited about dying for the fatherland again. 387 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: So on the day the film was released in Germany, 388 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: the Nazis in Berlin, organized by Joseph Gebel's, bought three 389 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: D tickets to the seven pm showing. Nazis inside the 390 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: theater who did and yelled at the movie and at 391 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: one predetermined point started throwing stink bombs into the crowd 392 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: and releasing mice. So like that was sort of there, 393 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: before they're in power, how they would try to shut 394 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: down a movie they didn't really, Yeah, like junior high 395 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: kids like junior high kids. Yeah, I mean probably a 396 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: lot of them were teenagers. Yeah, yeah, Now, the Nazis 397 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: protested for six days until the film was completely removed 398 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: from German screens. Karl Lambley, founder of Universal, ordered a 399 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 1: bunch of scenes cut from the film in order to 400 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: please the German foreign Office, including that scenes with the teacher. 401 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: He was the first big studio head to cave in 402 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: to Nazi demands. Now he died in nineteen thirty six, 403 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: and to be totally fair, he helps smuggle like three 404 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: Jewish people out of Germany during the Hitler years that 405 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: he was alive. Yeah, I mean we could say that 406 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: once he realized whole ship, yeah not good. But on 407 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: what when beforehand, when it was just about money, he 408 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: started the precedent of working with the Nazis in order 409 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: to continue to sell films to Germany. He was the 410 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: first of the studio heads that was like, yeah, this 411 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: is worth. This is the thing man, Like, even right 412 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 1: now in our country where it's like you've really got 413 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: to ask yourself, what side of history do you want 414 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: to fall in on this? Even if it doesn't affect 415 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: you now, yeah, like where do you want to fall 416 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: on this ship? I mean, but the hard part is 417 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: you gotta look at history from the perspective of people 418 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: who don't know what's coming next. I know. But Leery, yeah, 419 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 1: I mean you're because the Nazis are still saying all 420 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: this ship. Yeah, they still have all these attitudes, but 421 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: you're like, well, they're kind of self contained and they're 422 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: there and they're not really doing anything bad yet. So 423 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: maybe I can moderate a whole group of people and 424 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: makes you know, sell my whatever your product is, then 425 00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: I'll do it. But then ask like, well, what if 426 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: it what if they start doing what they're talking about? 427 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: And I think that I don't want to like judge 428 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: Lambley too harshly because clearly he was a what what 429 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: uh Limley? Well, yeah, I don't want to judge Limley 430 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: too harshly because clearly he was a good person who 431 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: like just fucked up. I agree with we know, we 432 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: know we have the precedent now that we should be 433 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: looking at with hindset, but I just be careful. Yeah, 434 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: very And this is again one of the things that 435 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: the people who don't like Rwan criticize him over is 436 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: essentially thinking too much from the perspective of people living 437 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: in the present day who know what the Nazis did 438 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: And that's a fair patamt. Both things be true. Yeah, 439 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: can't you be like even couldn't it possible for him 440 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: to be like, Yeah, I funked up on that early stuff. Yeah. Um, 441 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: once I saw the legitimacy of the horrors of what 442 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: they were doing, Uh, asked me how hard I worked 443 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: to try and save people? Like, yeah, both of those 444 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: things can be true. And it's also true that while 445 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: he worked hard to save people, he didn't work hard 446 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: to make anti Nazi movies. So right, we're going to 447 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: get into the rest of this collaboration and sort of 448 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: the history of Hollywood in the Nazis. But first it 449 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 1: is time for some ads for products. I understand you're 450 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: you're a big fan of products. I love a good product. 451 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: Do you do you also love doritos? Daniel Van enjoy 452 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: a Derrito? Well that's fantastic. Why don't you and I 453 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: go have a quick derrito break and then we'll we'll 454 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: we'll let these ads roll for everybody else and we're back. 455 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: We just had a delicious fistful of of derrito's. Are 456 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: you on a little half and half? Oh yeah? And 457 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: cool Ranch that's a that's we call that the Nacho ranch, 458 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,479 Speaker 1: dangerous place for a horse. That's not a complete joke anyway, 459 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: Let's move on now that we're fortified. So in April 460 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: of ninety three, around a month after Hitler became Chancellor 461 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: of Germany, the movie King Kong debuted around the world. 462 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: Uh It ran in Germany for quite a while and 463 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: was very successful until a professor with the German Health 464 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: Office called it quote nothing less than an attack on 465 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: the nerves of the German people. He said, it quote 466 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: provokes our racial instincts to show a blond woman of 467 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: the Germanic type in the hand of an ape. It 468 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: harms the healthy racial feelings of the German people. The 469 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: torture to which this woman has exposed her mortal fear, 470 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: and the other horrible things that one would only imagine 471 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: in a drunken frenzy are harmful to German health. In 472 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: a drunken frenzy, yeah, you're the one on the things 473 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: you would imagine happening to her while you're drunk. Yeah, yeah, 474 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: it's normal to imagine a woman getting molested by an 475 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: ape when you're drunk. As a doctor in Germany, I 476 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: can say this. You know, if he was a Nazi, 477 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: I mean, he probably right, It's I don't know this 478 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: specific guy. He was certainly okay enough to maintain his 479 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: job when the Nazis took over, which meant he was 480 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: willing to He was vetted on some level. Yeah, he 481 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: was vetted on some level. My judgment has nothing to 482 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: do with the technical achievements of the film, which I recognize, 483 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: nor do I care what other countries think is good 484 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: for their people. For the German people, this is unbearable 485 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: even that tone, Isn't that even in itself part of 486 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: the whole how we got to World War Two in 487 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: the Nazi Party for the German people, like it's a 488 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: pride yeah, because of how much pride was lost in 489 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: this world War is wondrous war. Yes, that now, that's 490 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: part of the whole thing. Like other people can do 491 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: what they want, Germans and we need to hold ourselves 492 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: to a higher esteem. We are a proud people and 493 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: once we route out this evil within our country, we 494 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: will be the best country in the world and eventually 495 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: take it all over. And it's this like in America, 496 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: we've always sort of had this like attitude that like, yeah, 497 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: we can be free and easy because we just like 498 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: landed on the continent with all of the resources. You know, 499 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: everybody happened to die that was here before us, oddly enough, 500 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: and in Germany they're like everybody around us wants to 501 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: kill us, and we have to be the hardest sons 502 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: of bitches in order to like, Yeah, I think that 503 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: is a big fact. And they weren't. Russia was Russia 504 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: was the Russia was the hardest sons of bitches will 505 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: tell you that. Yeah, yeah. Uh So. The professor went 506 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: on to warn that quote psychopaths or women would in 507 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: particular be vulnerable to being thrown into a panic by 508 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: the film Psychopaths or Women, either one either because you're 509 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: either gonna go do that to a woman or you're 510 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna feel like that's gonna happen. Do you. 511 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: Oh see, you actually found a more like a friendlier 512 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: interpretation of that. I thought he was just saying psychopaths 513 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: and women are the same thing. Oh, but no, I 514 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: think you are probably right. Is that he's like, well, 515 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,719 Speaker 1: either men who want to molest women will see this 516 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 1: as a call to do it, or women will be 517 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: scared by I think you're probably right, um, credit to 518 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: the Nazi not me. No no, no, no no, I'm 519 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: not calling you a Natz. I almost never call our 520 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: guest Nazis. Thank you, thank you. I'd like to keep 521 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: that straight going. Yeah. Uh so the movie was not banned, 522 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: but its title was changed. Yes, it was changed from 523 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: King Kong to quote the Fable of King Kong, an 524 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: American tricken sensation film. So it's like rolls off the tongue, 525 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: doesn't that of course? Yeah, that should have been the title. Yeah, 526 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: it's puter Jackson, that's you miss you fool. It's a 527 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: tricken sensation film. What does that mean? A Trickensen? The 528 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: Americans have worked up this skookie little idea, I think it. Yeah. 529 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: It was meant to make it seem less serious, to 530 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: make it. Yeah, it's a fable like German people are 531 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: used to scary fable. So if we present this as 532 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: a fable rather than you know, this as a joke, Yeah, 533 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. They were trying to get the commentary bingo. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh. Now. 534 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: Dr Ernst Seeger, who will be hearing about a bit 535 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: in this podcast, was Germany's chief censor, and he had 536 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: other issues with the film. He was sorry, opened right, 537 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: it had already been it's already been out, it's already 538 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: been a huge hit. It's been out in Germany for months, 539 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: I think, I think months. Yeah. So he was fine 540 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: with the idea of what he called an uran utan. 541 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: And I just want you to look at the spelling 542 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: of randutan. Is it similar to orangutang? It is, that's 543 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: what they used to call them. What the idea of 544 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: a ran newtan ran neutan. It's almost written phonetically, Yeah 545 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: it is, yeah, which I suspect ran new ran Neutan randuitan. 546 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: So he was fine with the idea of an Irandutan 547 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: falling in love with a quote blonde woman of the 548 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: Germanic type, because that was in line with popular racist 549 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: wisdom of the time, which was that people who aren't 550 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: white lust over white women. So he was actually okay 551 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: with that women. He was like, yeah, this show is 552 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: a real thing in nature that we have to be 553 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: guarded about. Yeah, yeah, he's I mean, he's a jackass. 554 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: Sure we'll be hearing a lot of old timey racism 555 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: from this particular Nazi. Uh So Dr Seeger didn't object 556 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: to that to the film because of the monkey molesting 557 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: the woman thing. He objected to the film because it 558 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: showed a commuter train being derailed, and he was afraid 559 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: that that would make people less trusting for public transportation. 560 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: God for us, funny, that is a very German thing, though, 561 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: to watch this movie and be like, what if it 562 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: makes people scared of the train, Like he has an 563 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: issue with mechanical malfunctions, like they you've got to show 564 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: that we can build stuff better than Yeah, you can't. 565 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: The German people think that we endorsed that something would 566 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: be built. Not well, I I German engineering would never 567 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: have a train derailment. For what it's worth, Hitler loved 568 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: King Kong. Yeah, Hitler had no problem. He was. He 569 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: was way into the movie. He loved it. The collaboration 570 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: quotes a German foreign press chief who said, quote, one 571 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: of Hitler's favorite films was King Kong, the well known 572 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: story of a gigantic ape who falls in love with 573 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: a woman no bigger than his hand. Hitler was captivated 574 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: by this atrocious story. He spoke of it often and 575 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: had its screens several times. Really, I can't hear that 576 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: and not think. Do you remember when them that Fire 577 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: and Fury book came out and somebody posted a fake 578 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: excerpt from it where they were talking about Trump having 579 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: the monkey channel made for him. It reminds me of that, Like, 580 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: like Hitler just staring at this ape on the screen, 581 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: just spell bound, do you get just really liked the 582 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: idea of like a creature that like could not be contained, 583 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: had like he because how he saw himself, It's like, 584 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm bigger and they can bust free. I can like 585 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: there had to be some sort of grandiose delusion that 586 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: he had in that. I think I and I'm on 587 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: I'm on the record here. I think Hitler was just 588 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: a nerd. I think before that was a commentary. I 589 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: think if Hitler had just a monster and he thought 590 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: it was cool, the the special effects were groundbreaking at 591 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: the time. So I think that's why he loved it 592 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: for the same reason people love Jurassic Park in Ninetich 593 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: just probably And I think that's the kind of guy 594 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: Hitler was, because he was he was very obsessed with 595 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: fantasy sort of fiction, you know, as a young man. 596 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: So I suspect that was the thing. Now. Germany in 597 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: the thirties was an important market for Hollywood prior to 598 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: World War One. It had been like the second largest 599 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: foreign market for Hollywood films. And then you know, after 600 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, when Hollywood was allowed back in the country, 601 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: accepted between like twenty and sixty movies every year that 602 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: the Nazis were in power. There there were rules in 603 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: Germany stating that like they were supposed to be no 604 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: more than one Hollywood movie for every German movie made, 605 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: but they relaxed those because the German film industry had 606 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: trouble and because the people like Hitler, yeah yeah, Germans 607 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: loved American movies, um, and we're it was a major 608 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: market for Hollywood. There was a lot of money in 609 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: being able to sell films to the Germans. Um. Most 610 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: of the major studios set up German branches during the 611 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: Weimar years. Executives from MGM, Paramount and Twentieth Century Fox 612 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: all kept up a brisk correspondence with Hitler's adjutants during 613 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: the period of time the Nazis were in charge. Some 614 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: of them even signed letters Heil Hitler, no ship. Yeah yeah, yeah, 615 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: they all that's some wrong side of history right there. 616 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: Should I write Should I write Aisle Hitler on it? 617 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: I could just like sincerely regards, like dude, what's the harm. 618 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: You know he's gonna like it. You know he's gonna 619 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: like it. We're all the way over here in America. 620 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,239 Speaker 1: Do you want to keep selling movies? Yeah? Right, trust me, 621 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: it's never going to come back at somebody in auction 622 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: in sixty years, in the dismay of your future family 623 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: is going to be selling a letter where you wrote, Yeah, 624 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: and what's in two years? He'll be out of power. 625 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: He's so crazy? How could this keep going on? Do 626 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: you imagine the feeling of like ninety three and you 627 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: fucking wrote Hitler? Oh yeah, you'd be like, oh my god, 628 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: I hope that gets burnt in with the books. He's 629 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: throwing my letter in with the boy. I hope the 630 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: Germans are bad at keeping records. It's actually the thing 631 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: their best at. Oh ship Yeah. So, like every dictator 632 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: I've ever read about, Adolf Hitler was a huge movie buff. 633 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: He watched uh at least one Hollywood film every single night, 634 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: pretty much that he was in power in his own 635 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: private movie theater. Usually the only time Hitler stopped talking, 636 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: as a general rule, is when he was watching a movie. Um, yeah, 637 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: Tarantino knew this ship man with glorious pastards, get him 638 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: to a movie, Get him to a movie. He loved movies, 639 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: and he tended to either really like films or hate them. 640 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: When Irwan was searching the collaboration, he went into the 641 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: Buns Archive, which is like a big German government archive, 642 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: and he found Hitler's thoughts on dozens and dozens and 643 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: dozens of movies. Yeah. Yeah, And he would usually write 644 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: like I liked it, or it was it was good, 645 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: or it was great, or you know, I switched it 646 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: off for whatever reason. Um. He would say that if 647 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: he didn't like a movie, he would say it was bad, 648 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: very bad, particularly bad. No, no, no, I know, I'm 649 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: just being trump. Well, he would say bad movies were 650 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: repulsive or the most potent crap, which is potent crap. 651 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: Potent crap, Yeah, potent crap. That's that's got to be abandoned, Berlin, 652 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: potent potent crap. Can you guess what Hitler's favorite Hollywood 653 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: movie was? M Let's see you didn't see anything after? Rightly? Yeah, 654 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: which is a shame. I really think he would have 655 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: liked white Christmas. Oh, he would have loved white Christmas. 656 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: There's a lot of like racist stuff in that TONSU dude, 657 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: I don't know tell Mickey Mouse really Yeah, yeah, he 658 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: ordered multiple Mickey Mouse cartoons In nineteen thirty seven. Joseph 659 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: Gebbels was trying to get him a Christmas gift and 660 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: wound up settling upon a shipload. Disney come up in 661 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: any of this stuff in Hollywood, but they actually got 662 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: out of the country pretty early because they were kind 663 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: of a small studio at this point, and so like 664 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: dealing with we'll get into that a little bit, like 665 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: they weren't a huge factor in here. But he loved 666 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse. Yeah, that's you don't want to be on 667 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: that end of the room, yeah, Hitler. Joseph Gebel's One 668 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: Christmas gave him a bunch of Mickey Mouse films, And 669 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: this is what Gebels wrote in his diary. I presented 670 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: the Few. I present the Fear with thirty two of 671 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: the best films from the last four years and twelve 672 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse films, including a wonderful art album for Christmas. 673 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: He's very pleased and extremely happy for this treasure that 674 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: will hopefully bring him much joy and relaxation. Hitler loved 675 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse, which and salam Bin Laden left, Tom and 676 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: Jerry what. Yeah, the CIA is archive because the CIA 677 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: posted up all the stuff we didn't episode on this, 678 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: but all the stuff that was on a Sama's hard drives. 679 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: Dozens of episodes of Tom and Jerry really, yeah, tons 680 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: of them. That sad. There's nothing to do with this information. 681 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: That's the sad ascending to any cartoon. What Tom and 682 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: Jerry isn't the final episode they kill each other, they 683 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: kill him? I think so. Yeah, I had no idea 684 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: where there is an episode where they killed themselves and 685 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: then the ghosts and they float away. It's like dark, dude, 686 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: that's extremely dark. Yeah, that's that actually sounds more fitting 687 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 1: of Hitler. The Germans are into dark myths for kids. 688 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: And you know what, then, I hope he saw that 689 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: whole Like remember Disney made that propaganda film about the kids. Yeah, 690 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: I hope he saw and he was so pissed. Yeah, 691 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: I hope he just hate He was so mad he 692 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: felt betrayed by Disney. It's frustrating because we don't know 693 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: much about what he thought about the anti We know 694 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,439 Speaker 1: he saw some of the anti Hitler films. He watched 695 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: The Great Dictator twice. Really, we don't know what he 696 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: thought about it. That's not recorded, but we know we 697 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: watched it twice. Wow. Yeah. And we'll talk more about 698 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: The Great Dictator at the end. But that's always one 699 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: of the big mysteries to me is like, what did 700 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: he like it? Like, was Hitler watching The Great Dictates flattered? Yeah, 701 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: because it's I mean, it's one of the great movies. Yeah, 702 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: and they made one of bottom they made one about him. 703 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: They made many, but like, yeah, but they made one 704 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: about him that like was a groundbreaking film. Yeah, So yeah, 705 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure he probably he may he may have. Anyway, 706 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: Hitler was chiller. The point of this is that Hitler 707 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: was actually a lot chiller about movies than most of 708 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: his sensors. Um there were numerous cases of films that 709 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 1: had difficulty getting through Nazis sensors that were nonetheless loved 710 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: by Hitler. Uh. He seemed to be particularly vulnerable to 711 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,399 Speaker 1: being influenced by films. He actually had a film called 712 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: tip Off Girls turned off midway through during a scene, 713 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: like there was a scene in the movie where these 714 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: people are robbing trucks by having women light down in 715 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: the street and then the truck stops in front of 716 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 1: the woman, and then like gangsters will rob the trucks. 717 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 1: Hitler had the movie stopped right after this scene so 718 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: he could go write a law, a one sentence law 719 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: that was immediately put into German like legal codes. Quote, 720 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: whoever sets up a roadblock with an hint to commit 721 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: a crime will be punished by death. So Hitler watches 722 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: this movie about people hijacking trucks like this and like 723 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: runs out of the theater to go and make a 724 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: new law. Influenced pretty wild, right, Yeah, it's just like 725 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: a kid. He is like a kid. I mean, I 726 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: mean a horrible fucking monster kid. I'm not minimalizing, but 727 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: like on this level and this energy of his life, 728 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 1: he's like, oh no, oh my god, we have to 729 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: change the law. Yeah. So Hitler was clearly aware of 730 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: the impact movies had on him and on everybody else. Um. 731 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: He believed the spoken word was the only way to 732 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: push large scale societal change, and he noted that just 733 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: as people were more convinced by his speeches when they 734 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 1: happened after dark, movie screened at night were more convincing. Yeah, 735 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: still true, Hitler. You know, comedy same way. Yeah, absolutely, 736 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,399 Speaker 1: doing stand up comedy and daylight is not There's something 737 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: about the night for us as human beings that we 738 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: allow more in fluence or just sway into our minds. 739 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: It's where we allow ourselves to go places mentally through 740 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: like a spoken person, whether that's a speech or stand up, 741 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,760 Speaker 1: Like how many I don't know, you just think about 742 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: so many big things has happened at night? I don't know. 743 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: I think, like if I think personally in my own self, 744 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: like why I'm more influence able at night, It's because 745 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: when I wake up in the morning, I usually get 746 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 1: a bunch of ship to do, and so like I'm 747 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: not thinking about life. I'm thinking about the stuff that 748 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: I need to do in my life. And then you 749 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: get around tonighttime and you're probably done with most of that. 750 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't maybe that's a factor, just that like when 751 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: you're going out to a movie at night or to 752 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: see a comedy show you finished, you're more willing to 753 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: think about stuff because you don't have anything pressing other 754 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: than this thing, you know what. I don't know. I'm 755 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: sure that's probably even more true for like Friday night 756 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: and Saturday night comedy shows and movies, because you're you're 757 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: the rest of your world is turned off for a 758 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: few couple of days hopefully. Yeah, that makes sense, And 759 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: it's one of those things like, you know, Hitler is Hitler, 760 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: but when he says something about how people react to 761 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: being propagandized, too, are trying to like convinced when he 762 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: talks about how speeches impact people should probably listened to 763 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: him on that stuff. The guy knew what he was 764 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: talking about when it comes to that. So pre Hitler, 765 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: Germany and many other countries had limited how many films 766 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: Hollywood could export. Uh. In ninth January ninety two, a 767 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,240 Speaker 1: non Nazi German Dr. Martin Freudenthal, had traveled to Hollywood 768 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,760 Speaker 1: to study the studio system. This was not uncommon. Canada, Chile, China, 769 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: and other countries at all sent representatives to Hollywood in 770 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,319 Speaker 1: the early thirties to make sure that their people were 771 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 1: portrayed accurately and inoffensively in films. Right, So the Germans 772 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: aren't the only people who are concerned about their representation 773 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: in movies. Obviously, the French were particularly emphatic about this. 774 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,319 Speaker 1: One Frenchman Baron Valentine Mandelstam had convinced Yeah, really great, 775 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: sounds like a German name. Actually, um actually convinced his 776 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: government to ban all Warner Brothers films in France until 777 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers paid him for the advice that he was 778 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: giving them. So like, the Germans are not the only 779 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: people trying to influence Hollywood. They're not the only people 780 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: going in there with kind of like strong arm tactics. 781 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: When the criticisms have been Irwan's book, the collaboration is 782 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,839 Speaker 1: that he doesn't go into all of this quite enough. 783 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: It is important to note that the US also had 784 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: a serious censorship bonner at this time. This had started 785 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties. Like I said that the idea 786 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,439 Speaker 1: of movie stars who really drove films had come about 787 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: after nineteen ten um, and so during the twenties you 788 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: had both an economic boom obviously it's the Roaring twenties, 789 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: but also the first generation ever of rich, famous Hollywood actors. 790 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: Several of these people died of drug overdoses and were 791 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: revealed of having, you know, being homosexual or bisexual, like 792 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: that was a very common thing. There were murders. The 793 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: stuff that happened has always been a factor in Hollywood 794 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 1: was new at this point and it was shocking to people. 795 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: And this all came to a head in the summer 796 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: of nineteen one when Roscoe Fatty Arbuckle was the biggest 797 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: name in comedy. Uh, he was you could call him 798 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 1: the twenties equivalent of a guy like Chris Farley almost 799 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: um Paramount interesting because Chris Father was supposed to play 800 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: Fatty Arbuckle Uh in a biographical film. I did not 801 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 1: know that and before he could do it. Well, that's 802 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: we'll get into what what that is because we're gonna 803 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: talk more about Fatty Arbuckle and sort of the first 804 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: moral scare in Hollywood that led to the birth of 805 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: the American censorship apparatus. That is important for us to 806 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: understand the context of all this. But first it's time 807 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: for products. Yeah you didn't see it, but he pumped 808 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: his arms. Yeah all right, Well listen to this the 809 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: ads and with your ears and we're back. Uh, we're back, 810 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: and we're talking about Fatty Arbuckle and the birth of 811 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: censorship in Hollywood. So you said he's like the biggest community, 812 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: He's he's the biggest star in the world. Right in 813 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: n Paramount Pictures had just given him a three million 814 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: dollar eighteen film contract, which was the biggest contract in 815 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: history at the time. So he's a uh, this is 816 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: still part of the system. Yeah, he's not doing any 817 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: other movies for any other one else but Paramount because 818 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: of this contract. But he's he's fucking loaded because three 819 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: million dollars in nineteen one is like all of the 820 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: money today. Um. So, to celebrate his success, one of 821 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: Fatty Article's friends through a three day Labor Day bacchan 822 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: all party in San Francisco, which is, of course one 823 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: of the great drinking towns in history. Now this is 824 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 1: during prohibition, but these guys are movies star so they 825 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 1: just they're able to find liquor anyway. It's like finding 826 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 1: drugs now. Uh. Now, Fatty did not enter the party 827 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: in good spirits. He visited a mechanic slightly before the 828 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: trip and accidentally sat on an acid soaked rag, so 829 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: his ass was covered in second degree burn. Yeah, I 830 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,399 Speaker 1: love it. When did you start all that? He said 831 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: he did not have a good trip. He did not 832 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,320 Speaker 1: have a good time before the trip. Okay, so before 833 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: he leaves for his back and all San Francisco vender 834 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,800 Speaker 1: and Labor Day party, which I still that sounds like 835 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: a great labored It does sound like a great labor 836 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,360 Speaker 1: So he where's the app He's in a mechanics getting 837 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,359 Speaker 1: his car worked on, and there's an acid soaked rag, 838 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: and that someone that burns his ass for batteries the 839 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 1: same where are you getting acid? I don't know. I 840 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 1: assume acid was all over the place. And that's why 841 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: you never sit down and be like cool if I 842 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: sit here you asked that question. No, that's the acid, 843 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: jass on, That's where we keep the acid. Right if 844 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: I am a mechanic, right, and you know how when 845 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,359 Speaker 1: you go to a mechanic and they're like, don't enter 846 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: the garage area, or like owner only enter the garage 847 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: are with one of our employees. I would also post 848 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: underneath that sign here's why and have the story of 849 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: Fatty Arbuckle city his ass on an acid soaked rag. 850 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,720 Speaker 1: It is the if this was a movie starring Fatty Arbuckle, 851 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,240 Speaker 1: this is exactly what would have happened. Are fat funny 852 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 1: protagonist burns and then he's got to sit on a 853 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 1: donut the whole movie and it's it's funny. What do 854 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,840 Speaker 1: you mean, Fatty? What do you mean you're not you 855 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,919 Speaker 1: don't know if you're coming to the party. All right, Look, 856 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 1: I'm at the mechanic. Sure, as one does. Sat down right, 857 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: don't you get set of standard around? Of course I do. Yeah, 858 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: don't you wish sometimes we still had those horse and boggies. 859 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: Don't get me started. Why what happened? I have acid as, 860 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: I have acid ass. So Fatty Arbuckle shows up to 861 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 1: this party with his ascid ass and he goes to sleep, 862 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: wakes up in the morning and there's a shipload of 863 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: people in the rooms that they've rented. There's a big party. Um, 864 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: so he gets drunk. He starts to have a good time, 865 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,959 Speaker 1: and he meets a year old actress and fashion model 866 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: named Virginia rap Are Buckle and rap. One version of 867 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: the story is that our Buckle and rap go back 868 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,280 Speaker 1: into a room and have sex and somehow her bladder 869 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: winds up punctured. Um. The myth is that he crushed 870 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,319 Speaker 1: her to death. To death. Yeah, that's that's one of 871 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: the myths, that Fatty Arbuckle crushed a woman to death. 872 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: There's no evidence of that. Did she die? She she 873 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: totally died. Okay, hold on, so everybody goes into separate rooms. No, 874 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,320 Speaker 1: there's two different versions of the story. Sorry. One woman 875 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 1: who's possibly a con woman had a history of being 876 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: a con woman before this. Claimed to be a friend 877 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,440 Speaker 1: of Rap, but there's no evidence of that. There's no 878 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: evidence they'd ever known each other. She just might have 879 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 1: tried to jump onto this exactly. It's tragedy train. And 880 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,319 Speaker 1: in court she basically claimed that he sexually assaulted Rap 881 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 1: and her bladder wound up punctured and that's why she died. 882 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: But was she found dead the next morning? No, no, no, 883 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 1: She lingered for several days. They first rented a hotel 884 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,359 Speaker 1: room for her because she was sick, and then after 885 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:25,760 Speaker 1: a day or two, they took her to a hospital 886 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,879 Speaker 1: because they're like, oh, this isn't getting better, and this 887 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 1: is like nineteen ladder tend to get pop from a punch. Well, sorry, 888 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm jumping out that I don't really know. 889 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: Don't we know is that in the autopsy there's no 890 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 1: signs of violence on the body. Um and that Arbuckle 891 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: and multiple other guests claimed that they never had sex 892 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,399 Speaker 1: and we're never alone together. They claimed that she had 893 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,200 Speaker 1: been drinking and started complaining that she couldn't breathe and 894 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: like complaining of abdominal pain, and then they got her 895 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 1: a hotel room to try to like chill her out 896 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,200 Speaker 1: and whatnot. And you know, she died several days later. 897 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 1: We don't know what happened. So one theory is they 898 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: had sex, maybe concerns real or non consensual, but either way, 899 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: in the course of that his either weight or aggression 900 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: or just yeah, harmed her in a way that eventually 901 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 1: killed her. Yes. And the other theory is she just 902 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: drank a lot, somehow rumptured her own bladder, she had 903 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 1: some sex with anybody. There's no signs of any sort 904 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,920 Speaker 1: of abuse or sex, and there's no signs of violence 905 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: violence exactly, and they put her in a hotel to 906 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: be like, yeah, go sleep off the thing that's killing you, 907 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: and then sure enough she slept it off forever. Well, 908 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: they took her to a hospital, but then she died 909 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: in the hospital. Yeah, it doesn't really like it seems 910 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 1: like Arbuckle was probably innocent with what we know today 911 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: because this case has been relitigated for decades um. But 912 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,360 Speaker 1: at the time there was a huge court case about it, 913 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: and it exposed the wild lifestyles, illegal drinking, in general 914 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,440 Speaker 1: debauchery of Hollywood A listers. So this led the Motion 915 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 1: picture Studios to get scared because they were scared that 916 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 1: the government was going to come in and regulate the 917 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 1: whole industry because this really yeah, this was this was 918 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 1: like shocking to people at the time. Yeah, because you 919 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: don't have what we have today everybody. This is death's murders, suicides, 920 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: and drug scandal like are the only times the general 921 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 1: American public is hearing about what the hell these celebrities 922 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: are doing. Yeah, used to be you can literally just 923 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 1: you just do whatever you wanted. A lot of times 924 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,359 Speaker 1: you had enough money to make people not say anything 925 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,279 Speaker 1: about it. And this is also a time where like 926 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,799 Speaker 1: people are shocked at the idea of a woman having 927 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: sex with someone who wasn't husbands like, so this is 928 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: this is shocking two people at the time. They get 929 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,799 Speaker 1: really angry, and there's a fear that the government's going 930 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:34,839 Speaker 1: to come in and regulate the film industry. So in 931 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,399 Speaker 1: order to avoid that, the big studios try to get 932 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,240 Speaker 1: ahead of this by creating the Motion Picture Production Code. 933 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 1: In N two, this becomes this. Basically, they create the 934 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 1: m p a A because this is where the m 935 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: p A comes from, and the head of the m 936 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,439 Speaker 1: p a A at first is a guy named William Hayes, 937 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,960 Speaker 1: who was a former Postmaster General. UM. One of Hayes's 938 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: first acts was to ban Fatty Arbuckle from ever appearing 939 00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,439 Speaker 1: in another movie. Yeah. Now that band was reversed eight later, 940 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,320 Speaker 1: but it was too This is the end of Fatty's 941 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: career is like a big star, um and this is 942 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,280 Speaker 1: the end of him being a part of this podcast 943 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 1: because he was not a Nazi. Uh So, I just 944 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,879 Speaker 1: this sets up where Hollywood is at the time, because again, 945 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: one of the criticisms of Rwan's book is that he 946 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,600 Speaker 1: talks about how all these Hollywood studios collaborated with the Nazis, 947 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 1: but he doesn't focus enough on how everybody was censoring 948 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,239 Speaker 1: movies back then. So I want to make sure we're 949 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: giving that sort of background. Um. Now. In nineteen thirty, 950 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,880 Speaker 1: the m p A adopted the Production Code, which is 951 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,319 Speaker 1: more commonly known as the Hayes Code, and the Haze 952 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,440 Speaker 1: Code basically laid out all the things you couldn't do 953 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,359 Speaker 1: in movies. So when the code was announced, Hayes said 954 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 1: this quote. The code sets up high standards of performance 955 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 1: from motion picture producers. It states the considerations which good 956 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: taste and community value make necessary in this universal form 957 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,359 Speaker 1: of entertainment. The code decreed that no picture quote laurel 958 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,839 Speaker 1: lower the moral standards of those who see it. Now, 959 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 1: this is also like, this is in response to the 960 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,719 Speaker 1: public outcry of the scandal of like what's happening in Hollywood. Right, 961 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,759 Speaker 1: it's a bunch of different scanals, so our buffets that 962 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, in this in their personal life, they're 963 00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,480 Speaker 1: acting like this, yeah, but as far as what they 964 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,319 Speaker 1: put on film, will make sure that that makes you 965 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: feel good about your quote moral code. Yeah, because this 966 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,680 Speaker 1: is like that's the basic idea is that Hollywood gets 967 00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,319 Speaker 1: criticized for being too too lascivious two out there, and 968 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 1: some of the movies were a little bit more before 969 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 1: the production code. You know, you could get away with 970 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: more nothing that we would consider shocking today, but for 971 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 1: the time it was so this was essentially the industry 972 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 1: being like, well, all right, we've got to stay within 973 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,920 Speaker 1: the lions anywise, we're gonna get shut down by the government. 974 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,080 Speaker 1: We're gonna pun intended project a good image, yeah, exactly, 975 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,799 Speaker 1: and so and part another factor in this is that 976 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,719 Speaker 1: like in I think it is the they start making 977 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,160 Speaker 1: talkies and so that there are more concerns then, because 978 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,240 Speaker 1: film is growing from a novelty to a serious fact 979 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: at the center of like American culture, big industry exactly. 980 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,600 Speaker 1: So that's why in nineteen thirty they clamped down even 981 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,319 Speaker 1: further and make this production coke. Um. So again, no 982 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,680 Speaker 1: picture is allowed to lower the moral standards of those 983 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,719 Speaker 1: who see it. Uh. It states that the sympathy of 984 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,799 Speaker 1: the audience shall never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, 985 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,799 Speaker 1: sin or evil. Um. So, like eight percent of the 986 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,760 Speaker 1: movies that have come out this year are already banned. 987 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,120 Speaker 1: You can't even have a Sopranos. Yeah, no, of course, 988 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:26,320 Speaker 1: not Jesus Christ, let alone breaking bad. Um. Suggestive dancing 989 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,719 Speaker 1: was banned, as was kissing with too much lust. It 990 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,279 Speaker 1: was forbidden to insult religion or show the use of 991 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 1: illegal drugs. Also forbidden was interracial romance, the concept of 992 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,600 Speaker 1: revenge and depicting a crime in any way that might 993 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,359 Speaker 1: give people an idea of how to actually commit that crime. 994 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,960 Speaker 1: The concept of revenge and what was the lass? Uh, 995 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,919 Speaker 1: you can't show someone committing a crime in a way 996 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,160 Speaker 1: that actually would inform people how to do that, which 997 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,799 Speaker 1: is still something like you can't and we lost that 998 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,680 Speaker 1: boat in nineteen in the eighties when mcgeivers showed everybody 999 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 1: how to make a pipe point on TV and then 1000 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,640 Speaker 1: a kid went out and did it. Well, I feel 1001 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 1: like that's a public service. The only thing that's Daniel, 1002 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:06,799 Speaker 1: the only thing that's going to stop a bad guy 1003 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 1: with a pipe bomb is a good guy with a kid. Yeah, 1004 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:15,480 Speaker 1: a good kid year old with a pipe bomb. Boy, 1005 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,640 Speaker 1: we don't talk about pipe bombs enough anymore. Yeah, because 1006 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:24,239 Speaker 1: all the guns, one thing at a time. Brother, all right, 1007 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,960 Speaker 1: So um. In the Collaboration, ben Erland argues that studios 1008 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,880 Speaker 1: work directly with the Nazi government in a way that 1009 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 1: was unique and novel. Um, who did this? This is 1010 00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,480 Speaker 1: the guy who wrote this book. Operation. Again, I'm trying 1011 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,319 Speaker 1: to give both sides of this. So you gotta set 1012 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,760 Speaker 1: up that censorship is everywhere and other countries are also 1013 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,520 Speaker 1: agitating to have films censored because they're offended at one. 1014 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,319 Speaker 1: But Erland argues that the way the studios worked with 1015 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,799 Speaker 1: the Nazi government was unique and novel, even given all 1016 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,239 Speaker 1: of this context, and I do think his argument has 1017 00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,279 Speaker 1: a lot of water. The main argument is there or 1018 00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,040 Speaker 1: not it was a collaboration where the studios were actually 1019 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,560 Speaker 1: working with the Nazis, or if it was just normal censorship. 1020 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:07,799 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna let you make your own mind up 1021 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:09,480 Speaker 1: on that. I'm gonna let you the listener, make your 1022 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,920 Speaker 1: mind upon that. I'm gonna try to sort of present 1023 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,680 Speaker 1: both sides of this. Um. What no one doubts is 1024 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: that during the time the Nazis were in power, up 1025 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,480 Speaker 1: until World War Two started UH, references to Nazis and 1026 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,439 Speaker 1: references to Jewish people were severely curtailed in movies and 1027 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,960 Speaker 1: in fact often cut out entirely. UM. Now, one thing 1028 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,520 Speaker 1: everyone seems to agree on is that greed was a 1029 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,360 Speaker 1: major factor behind this, because in nineteen thirty two, the 1030 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:38,040 Speaker 1: Germans introduced Article fifteen into their legal code, which stated 1031 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,759 Speaker 1: that quote the allocation of permits may be refused for 1032 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,360 Speaker 1: films the producers of which, in spite of warnings issued 1033 00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,160 Speaker 1: by the competent German authorities, continue to distribute on the 1034 00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,120 Speaker 1: world market films the tendency or effective which is detrimental 1035 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,880 Speaker 1: to German prestige. So the Germans now say that we 1036 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,799 Speaker 1: can stop. So they have to hand out permits in 1037 00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,720 Speaker 1: order for like a studio to sell them a movie, 1038 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,839 Speaker 1: and they're doing like six to a year or something 1039 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 1: like that. Generally, most studios they're going to need about 1040 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,720 Speaker 1: ten to a dozen movies accepted to make a profit 1041 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,399 Speaker 1: in Germany. So what what Article fifteen said is that 1042 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,160 Speaker 1: all permits to a film producer can be stopped if 1043 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,120 Speaker 1: they distribute anywhere in the world a movie that is 1044 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:20,000 Speaker 1: detrimental to German prestige. Yeah, so this is opposed to 1045 00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,040 Speaker 1: like France who was like, we're not putting your movies 1046 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:23,800 Speaker 1: out until you take advice on how we want to 1047 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,319 Speaker 1: be seen Germany saying we're gonna stop you if you 1048 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,640 Speaker 1: do a movie anywhere in the world that we don't 1049 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,680 Speaker 1: we don't like exactly. So that starts to be how 1050 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,759 Speaker 1: the Germans approach things. It's like, we will cut Hollywood 1051 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:39,360 Speaker 1: off from Germany if you make movies anywhere that we 1052 00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,319 Speaker 1: don't like. So yeah, this is now, this is ninety two, 1053 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,560 Speaker 1: So this is when the Nazis have a lot of 1054 00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 1: power in Germany, but they're not in control yet. So 1055 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,080 Speaker 1: it's important to note that this is a lot of 1056 00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,319 Speaker 1: Germans are sore about Hollywood because during World War One, 1057 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,640 Speaker 1: Hollywood had made a lot of anti German pictures, right, 1058 00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,400 Speaker 1: So like this is not just a Nazi thing, but 1059 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,359 Speaker 1: the Nazi he's really amp it up to the nth level. 1060 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,040 Speaker 1: So that that German guy who came to Hollywood Dr 1061 00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,160 Speaker 1: Freuden Tall to sort of like talk to them about 1062 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,960 Speaker 1: how they represented Germans. Um he was. He had been 1063 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,840 Speaker 1: able to get the Hayes office to cancel a paramount 1064 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,200 Speaker 1: movie about the sinking of the Lusitania, and he'd also 1065 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,480 Speaker 1: been able to secure edits to a movie set inside 1066 00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,640 Speaker 1: of German pow camp. So he he went over there 1067 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,319 Speaker 1: and he was able to actually get Hollywood to change 1068 00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,680 Speaker 1: some movies to make them more friendly to Germans. And 1069 00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,319 Speaker 1: when he returned to Germany eight when he returned to 1070 00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,520 Speaker 1: Germany from his time in l A, he wound up 1071 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,320 Speaker 1: landing there eight days after the Enabling Act, which is 1072 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,680 Speaker 1: what made Hitler a dictator. So eight days after Hitler 1073 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,840 Speaker 1: takes power for real, Dr Freuden Tall meets with several 1074 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,920 Speaker 1: German officials, including Joseph Gebel's I'm going to quote from 1075 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:45,000 Speaker 1: the collaboration here. Everyone listened to Freud and Tall outlined 1076 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,400 Speaker 1: a brand new plan to combat the hate film problem 1077 00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,360 Speaker 1: in the United States. He began by pointing out that 1078 00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,319 Speaker 1: the most successful moments of his trip had been his 1079 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,400 Speaker 1: interactions with the heads of Hollywood studios. He had received 1080 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,719 Speaker 1: permission from the Hayes office to meet directly with Carl 1081 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,880 Speaker 1: Lamley of Universal Pictures, and as a result of their meeting, 1082 00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,840 Speaker 1: Limley had agreed to postpone the sequel to All Quiet 1083 00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,520 Speaker 1: on the Western Front entitled The Road Back. Throughout the 1084 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:07,960 Speaker 1: rest of the year, freuden Tall had met with Lambley's son, 1085 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,680 Speaker 1: Karl Lambley Jr. And many more pictures were changed in 1086 00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:15,160 Speaker 1: Germany's favor. Naturally, freuden Tall said Universal's interest in collaboration 1087 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,000 Speaker 1: is not platonic, but is motivated by the company's concern 1088 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,360 Speaker 1: for the well being of its Berlin branch and for 1089 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,520 Speaker 1: the German market. Other studio heads were just as obliging. 1090 00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,919 Speaker 1: An executive at r KO promised that whenever he made 1091 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,800 Speaker 1: a film involving Germany, he would work quote in close 1092 00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,279 Speaker 1: collaboration with the local consul general. An executive Fox said 1093 00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,480 Speaker 1: that he would consult a German representative in all future 1094 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,560 Speaker 1: cases as well. Even United artists offered quote the closest collaboration. 1095 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,360 Speaker 1: So you can see why Erland picked the title the 1096 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,279 Speaker 1: Collaboration for his book. Yeah, it does seem like there 1097 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,920 Speaker 1: was an active working relationship with these studios and them 1098 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,600 Speaker 1: saying we know, look, we get what you guys are 1099 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,640 Speaker 1: doing over there. Yeah, we want to work with you. Yeah, 1100 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: don't ban our films. Let's work together so we can 1101 00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,000 Speaker 1: make sure we can sell our films and Germany will 1102 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,560 Speaker 1: get enough movies and we don't offend you guys. And 1103 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,799 Speaker 1: is it too far of a reach to say that 1104 00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,080 Speaker 1: if you make a movie the Nazis, like all the 1105 00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:12,719 Speaker 1: Nazis are gonna go see it, Like if it's endorsed 1106 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,480 Speaker 1: by the government, not see it. They would all go 1107 00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,239 Speaker 1: see it, right, I mean not all of their they're 1108 00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,600 Speaker 1: very it's very popular. And well, actually we're going to 1109 00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:22,400 Speaker 1: get into that in a little bit. So one of 1110 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,600 Speaker 1: the things that's interesting here is the Nazis have sort 1111 00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:27,600 Speaker 1: of come down to us from history is like masters 1112 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,359 Speaker 1: of propaganda. They did not consider themselves masters of propaganda. 1113 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,040 Speaker 1: The Nazis considered Hollywood to be by far the best 1114 00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,839 Speaker 1: at propaganda, and so we will be we will be 1115 00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,200 Speaker 1: discussing that quite a bit later on um so Freud 1116 00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:45,239 Speaker 1: and Tall suggested that someone should permanently have the job 1117 00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,680 Speaker 1: of being the German liaison to Hollywood. This person's job 1118 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,200 Speaker 1: would be to educate and train film industry personnel so 1119 00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,480 Speaker 1: that anti German movies were never made in the first place. 1120 00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,920 Speaker 1: I think fred Fred Tall probably wanted that job for himself, 1121 00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,440 Speaker 1: but he didn't wind up getting it. Diplomat named George 1122 00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,640 Speaker 1: Gisling actually got the job, and jis Ling's first big 1123 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,480 Speaker 1: task was a movie called Captured, which featured scenes of 1124 00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,880 Speaker 1: German soldiers beating up captured British soldiers and denying them water. 1125 00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:11,960 Speaker 1: Justisling demanded that this all be cut, and when it wasn't, 1126 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,280 Speaker 1: he flipped his ship. Captured was declared by the Nazis 1127 00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,520 Speaker 1: to be the worst hate film since World War One. 1128 00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,000 Speaker 1: Jis Ling activated Article fifteen and stopped Warner Brothers from 1129 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,640 Speaker 1: receiving permits from any more films. Ever, in nineteen thirty four, 1130 00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:28,320 Speaker 1: the company closed its Berlin office. A scholar named Doherty, 1131 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,319 Speaker 1: who also has written about this period of time, calls 1132 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,440 Speaker 1: them quote the first of the majors to withdraw on 1133 00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,720 Speaker 1: principle rather than work with the Nazis. So Warner Brothers 1134 00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,160 Speaker 1: are of the studios, kind of the heroes at this point, 1135 00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:42,440 Speaker 1: because they they made their movie. They made their movie, 1136 00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,480 Speaker 1: they refused they did change it. Somewhat because he had 1137 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,239 Speaker 1: some Justling had some points that they're like, okay, yeah, 1138 00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,360 Speaker 1: maybe that is unfair, but they still made a movie 1139 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,200 Speaker 1: that the Nazis didn't like, and the Nazis completely cut 1140 00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,479 Speaker 1: them out of German so they said, fine, let's closer office. 1141 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,000 Speaker 1: We're not going to keep fine with you. Well, they 1142 00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,319 Speaker 1: closed their office. I mean, they lost a lot of money, 1143 00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,759 Speaker 1: but yeah, they closed their office and they left her 1144 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,799 Speaker 1: I mean they were forced to leave Germany. So on 1145 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:08,600 Speaker 1: March nineteen thirty three, UFA, the major German film company 1146 00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,560 Speaker 1: at the time, They're big studio that was actually making 1147 00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:14,080 Speaker 1: movies in Germany, fired most of its best writers, directors, 1148 00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 1: crew members, and talent. I'm gonna give you one guess 1149 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,360 Speaker 1: as to why they fired all these people at once. Yep. 1150 00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:23,720 Speaker 1: And it turns out that most of their film industry 1151 00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:27,880 Speaker 1: people in Germany were Jewish too. Um. The Salesman's Syndicate, 1152 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,920 Speaker 1: a Nazi organization, sent letters to American film studios with 1153 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,840 Speaker 1: offices in Germany and ordered them to fire all of 1154 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:38,200 Speaker 1: their Jewish employees as well. The Salesman's Syndicate, which is 1155 00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,880 Speaker 1: a was a Nazi organization like a Nazi almost like 1156 00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,880 Speaker 1: a labor union for a Nazi salesman sent letters to 1157 00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,200 Speaker 1: American film studios with offices in Germany and ordered them 1158 00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,760 Speaker 1: to fire all of their Jewish employees. So the Nazis fired. 1159 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,160 Speaker 1: The Nazis ordered their big film company to fire all 1160 00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:56,800 Speaker 1: of its Jewish employees. And then they go to the 1161 00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,680 Speaker 1: American studios working in Germany and they said the Lemley 1162 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 1: and all these other people, like, hey, every you can't 1163 00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,480 Speaker 1: have any Jewish people employed in Germany. You know, they're 1164 00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,080 Speaker 1: not saying you have to fire you Jewish people, and 1165 00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:10,560 Speaker 1: we'll get to that later. We'll get to that later. 1166 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,400 Speaker 1: But they start by saying, you can't employ Jewish people 1167 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:17,560 Speaker 1: within Germany now, and fairness of the companies, none of 1168 00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,280 Speaker 1: the studios obliged instantly. First they sent all of their 1169 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,840 Speaker 1: Jewish workers home instantly on mental preservation leave. So they 1170 00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,680 Speaker 1: put these guys out on paid leave, and eventually Hollywood 1171 00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,720 Speaker 1: reached an accord with the Nazis. They put up lists 1172 00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,640 Speaker 1: each studio of their best Jewish employees in Germany, and 1173 00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,640 Speaker 1: the German government would grant those employees exemptions and actually 1174 00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:38,960 Speaker 1: granted them protection to like state protection to the Jewish 1175 00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,200 Speaker 1: employees of these these movie studios, but most of the 1176 00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,960 Speaker 1: Jewish employees of all these studios were fired, so they 1177 00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,160 Speaker 1: did come to an arrangement. The Nazis aren't getting their 1178 00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,040 Speaker 1: whole way yet, but also the studios fire and most 1179 00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:56,000 Speaker 1: of their Jewish employees in Germany. Um so, uh, these 1180 00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,080 Speaker 1: people were able to stay at their jobs until January I, 1181 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,400 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six, when the Nazis categorically banned Jewish people 1182 00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,520 Speaker 1: from working in the film industry. The collaboration basically credits 1183 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,080 Speaker 1: the delay to the fact that because the Germans had 1184 00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,280 Speaker 1: fired all of the Jewish people from their own film 1185 00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,440 Speaker 1: production company, they weren't able to make enough movies, and 1186 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,720 Speaker 1: so they couldn't. They didn't want to push Hollywood that 1187 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:20,880 Speaker 1: much because they they understood movies were valuable for people's morale, 1188 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,960 Speaker 1: and so they were like, well, okay, we can't make 1189 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:25,960 Speaker 1: many movies right now because we just fired everyone who 1190 00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,840 Speaker 1: knows how to make movies, So we won't push the 1191 00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,120 Speaker 1: studios quite yet because we need a couple of years 1192 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,280 Speaker 1: before we do to rebuild our own domestic film industry. 1193 00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,880 Speaker 1: Um so, actually, for a while, this goes great for 1194 00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,840 Speaker 1: the Hollywood studios, and in fact, in nineteen thirty three, 1195 00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,120 Speaker 1: they sell sixty five pictures because they're the only people 1196 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,240 Speaker 1: making movies that Germany German citizens can get. Yeah, and 1197 00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:51,080 Speaker 1: the Germany can't really make movies for yeah. So in 1198 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, in the boom Yeah, and it's a boom 1199 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,760 Speaker 1: in In In nineteen thirty two, before Hitler was in power, 1200 00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,040 Speaker 1: they'd sold fifty four films to Germany and nineen thirty 1201 00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,560 Speaker 1: three they sell sixty five. So this is seeven great 1202 01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:02,919 Speaker 1: for the studios. You know, you gotta deal, you gotta 1203 01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,120 Speaker 1: work with the Nazis a little bit, but by god, 1204 01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:09,320 Speaker 1: the money comes in. It's like a curse. Yeah, it's 1205 01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,840 Speaker 1: a good it's a solid amount of money. And these guys, 1206 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's an expensive industry. So midway through 1207 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:19,080 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three, a screenwriter named Herman manka witza Witz yeah, 1208 01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:20,840 Speaker 1: who wrote he was the guy who wrote Citizen Kane. 1209 01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,680 Speaker 1: Later um so he decided to write a movie that 1210 01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:28,800 Speaker 1: explicitly attacked the Nazis and brought up the attacks Jewish 1211 01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,320 Speaker 1: people had to endure under Nazi rule. He wrote a 1212 01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:36,680 Speaker 1: screenplay titled The Mad Dog of You. This is the 1213 01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,480 Speaker 1: same year, so he's early on this, He's very early 1214 01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,080 Speaker 1: on this. This is when the studios He's already being 1215 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,720 Speaker 1: like ships going down. This is fucked up, right, The 1216 01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,360 Speaker 1: Nazis are a problem. Somebody should make a movie in 1217 01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,680 Speaker 1: the paper and go after exactly. So he writes a 1218 01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,480 Speaker 1: script uh and a producer, Sam Jeff, buys the idea 1219 01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:56,360 Speaker 1: and leaps into trying to film it. Jeff was so 1220 01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,000 Speaker 1: shocked that there were no other anti Nazi movies in 1221 01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,760 Speaker 1: production in Hollywood that he got terrified someone was about 1222 01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:03,840 Speaker 1: to beat him to the punch. So he takes out 1223 01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,560 Speaker 1: a full page ad in the Hollywood Reporter that says this, 1224 01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,840 Speaker 1: which try to imagine anyone doing this today. Because I 1225 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,280 Speaker 1: sincerely believe that in the mad Dog of Europe, I 1226 01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,400 Speaker 1: have the most valuable motion picture property I have ever possessed, 1227 01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,640 Speaker 1: and because I wish to take sufficient time to prepare 1228 01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,440 Speaker 1: and film it with the infinite care that it's subject merits, 1229 01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,680 Speaker 1: I hereby ask the motion picture industry to kindly respect 1230 01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:27,160 Speaker 1: my priority rights. So he puts out an ad being like, 1231 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,360 Speaker 1: no one else make an anti Nazi movie right now, 1232 01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm making a great anti Nazi. This is what Dante's 1233 01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:36,880 Speaker 1: Peak should have done with Volcano. Oh yes, or the 1234 01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,560 Speaker 1: prestige this is important other magician movie that came out 1235 01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,560 Speaker 1: or what's the other one? Deep impact and Arma should 1236 01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,720 Speaker 1: have asked for priority. Yeah, and I'm making the definitive 1237 01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:53,240 Speaker 1: f Hitler movie nobody else, everybody. I don't know what 1238 01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,400 Speaker 1: you guys are doing or if I get to be first, 1239 01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,000 Speaker 1: but hold off if you're hold off, because this is 1240 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,120 Speaker 1: gonna be the funk Hitler movie to funk all fun 1241 01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:04,520 Speaker 1: Hitler movies. Um Now, I've never read the screenway screenplay. 1242 01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,439 Speaker 1: Irwan who wrote the collaboration, did, and he he doesn't 1243 01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:09,040 Speaker 1: think it was very good, but who knows. I have 1244 01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,360 Speaker 1: no way to judge this. But it did contain frank 1245 01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,000 Speaker 1: depictions of Nazi violence against Jewish and would have been 1246 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,440 Speaker 1: groundbreaking because that did not happen before nineteen forty period, 1247 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,200 Speaker 1: and no movie was there a depiction of Nazi violence 1248 01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:23,160 Speaker 1: against Jewish people before nineteen So the movie would have 1249 01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,800 Speaker 1: been groundbreaking if it had ever been made. See, Jeff 1250 01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,880 Speaker 1: was not trying to release the movie in Germany, so 1251 01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,360 Speaker 1: j Lyn couldn't bring Article fifteen against him since his 1252 01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,280 Speaker 1: company he wasn't working with one of the big studios. 1253 01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:36,720 Speaker 1: He started his own independent production company. Um so there 1254 01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,320 Speaker 1: wasn't anything that Jisling could do to them, because like, what, 1255 01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:41,760 Speaker 1: we're not in Germany, what are you gonna do? Well, 1256 01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,600 Speaker 1: Jisling went to the Hayes office, or at least Irlan 1257 01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,200 Speaker 1: suspects that Jisling went to the Hayes office. We don't 1258 01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,920 Speaker 1: exactly know what happened. Urwan suspects that Jisling went to 1259 01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,320 Speaker 1: the Hayes office and threatened to ban all American movies 1260 01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:56,480 Speaker 1: from Germany if the studios didn't make sure that this 1261 01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,640 Speaker 1: movie didn't get made. There is no hard evidence of 1262 01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:03,280 Speaker 1: this act. What we know is that Will Hayes, America's 1263 01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,840 Speaker 1: chief censor, had a meeting with Sam jeff and Herman Mankowitz, 1264 01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:10,880 Speaker 1: very shortly after that, and Hayes allegedly told them quote 1265 01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,320 Speaker 1: because of the large number of Jews active in the 1266 01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,000 Speaker 1: motion picture industry in this country, the charge is certain 1267 01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:17,840 Speaker 1: to be made that the Jews as a class are 1268 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,840 Speaker 1: behind an anti Hitler picture and using the entertainment screen 1269 01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,880 Speaker 1: for their own personal propaganda purposes. The entire industry because 1270 01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,800 Speaker 1: of this is likely to be indicted for the action 1271 01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,440 Speaker 1: of a mere handful. So I think it's probable that 1272 01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,280 Speaker 1: Jissling did go to Hayese and be like, I'm gonna 1273 01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,160 Speaker 1: ban America from Germany, American movies from Germany if you 1274 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,400 Speaker 1: don't stop this ship. Because he's certainly bore. Hay was 1275 01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,680 Speaker 1: just unprovoked looking out for the interest of the industry 1276 01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,080 Speaker 1: so that they could keep making money in Germany. Also possible. 1277 01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,960 Speaker 1: I mean either way, yeah, either way, either way, it's 1278 01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:51,520 Speaker 1: it's gutless. Yeah. Um. So Jeaff wound up selling the 1279 01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:53,240 Speaker 1: script to a guy named Rosen because he couldn't He 1280 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:55,800 Speaker 1: couldn't raise the money himself. Al Rosen was an early 1281 01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:59,720 Speaker 1: film industry agent. He got as far as buying film 1282 01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,480 Speaker 1: style and casting who would have been the very first 1283 01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:06,400 Speaker 1: hitler ever in motion picture history other than the actual hits, 1284 01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,400 Speaker 1: but the project died on the vine. He also couldn't 1285 01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,160 Speaker 1: find additional financial backing to make the movie. Lewis Meyer 1286 01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,320 Speaker 1: of MGM told him, quote, because we have interest in Germany. 1287 01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,320 Speaker 1: I represent the filming picture industry here in Hollywood, we 1288 01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:21,880 Speaker 1: have exchanges there, we have terrific income from in Germany, 1289 01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:24,480 Speaker 1: and as far as I am concerned, this picture will 1290 01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:29,000 Speaker 1: never be made. See all that, Like Magawitz or Jeffy 1291 01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,720 Speaker 1: or Jeff could have had to say it was like, yeah, 1292 01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,880 Speaker 1: but they're doing fucked up ship and it seems seems 1293 01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,800 Speaker 1: full full disclosure. From my opinion, it seems as though 1294 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,720 Speaker 1: their attitude is, yeah, we know they are. We're also 1295 01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:47,959 Speaker 1: making more money there than we've ever made. Yeah, so exactly, Yeah, 1296 01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:51,680 Speaker 1: as you would hear it. Yea. But someone's gotta fucking 1297 01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:55,280 Speaker 1: pay the rent, buddy, dude. Ye Now. I think we've 1298 01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,640 Speaker 1: clearly seen some evidence of what would could be fairly 1299 01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:02,040 Speaker 1: called collaborations so far. But they is another wrinkle in 1300 01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:05,479 Speaker 1: this and another dynamic present in Hollywood at the time 1301 01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:09,360 Speaker 1: that is important. Fear See. Hitler's rise to the chancellorship 1302 01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,680 Speaker 1: had correlated with a massive surge and anti Semitism and 1303 01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:16,280 Speaker 1: an anti Semitic violence in the United States. Twenty thousand 1304 01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:18,960 Speaker 1: Nazis marched in Madison Square Garden in the thirties, like 1305 01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:21,640 Speaker 1: there were camps all around the United States for American 1306 01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,080 Speaker 1: You do not hear about that. There were fascist rallies 1307 01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,560 Speaker 1: all over the United States. In the Pacific Palisades, the 1308 01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,360 Speaker 1: Nazis bought a chunk of land to make a retreat 1309 01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:34,120 Speaker 1: in the early thirty What is it now, It's a 1310 01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,439 Speaker 1: graffiti sanctuary essentially, really yeah. Yeah, some of the old 1311 01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,720 Speaker 1: buildings are still there and it just gets tagged a bunch. 1312 01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:43,640 Speaker 1: It's a beautiful hike. Look up Hitler's house and it 1313 01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,760 Speaker 1: wasn't actually Hitler's house. It was supposed to be like 1314 01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,520 Speaker 1: a spa basically. But if you look up Hitler's house 1315 01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:50,800 Speaker 1: Pacific Palisades, you'll find out how to hike up there. 1316 01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:56,040 Speaker 1: It's a beautiful hike. Really, yeah, yeah, there is. There 1317 01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:59,440 Speaker 1: was a lot of fascist sympathy and what is that about? 1318 01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:04,080 Speaker 1: Point would just anti semitism in America. Anti Semitism was everywhere. 1319 01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:06,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean here though, there were just so 1320 01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:08,520 Speaker 1: many people that like, yeah, we we think the Jews 1321 01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,280 Speaker 1: are the problem too. Yeah, and it was less I 1322 01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,680 Speaker 1: think people here were less hateful about us and they 1323 01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:15,880 Speaker 1: were in Europe, but it was very common. It was 1324 01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:20,200 Speaker 1: very common to view like the idea that Jewish people 1325 01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:24,000 Speaker 1: controlled I mean, they did control the film industry. At 1326 01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:25,840 Speaker 1: this point, the idea, like to go back to your 1327 01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:30,520 Speaker 1: other episode about behind the Bachards of Hitler, the escapegoat 1328 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:34,720 Speaker 1: became that the Jews were undermining the government's ability to 1329 01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,960 Speaker 1: come back to power, right, That's how it like initially started. 1330 01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,600 Speaker 1: So what was the feeling here that they just were 1331 01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:43,880 Speaker 1: bad people. Know. It's the same idea that has persisted 1332 01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,960 Speaker 1: for a while that um so, you know, Jewish families 1333 01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:50,720 Speaker 1: are overrepresented in the finance industry and banking and have 1334 01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:52,480 Speaker 1: been for quite some time. And the reason for this 1335 01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:55,280 Speaker 1: is that for a very long time, both Muslims and 1336 01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:59,560 Speaker 1: Christians were prohibited, based on their religions, from running banks, 1337 01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:03,920 Speaker 1: from charge interest that was a religious like like it 1338 01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,880 Speaker 1: was forbid. It's still forbidden for Muslims. I think for 1339 01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,800 Speaker 1: whatever reason, Catholics and Protestants have gotten over that ship 1340 01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:12,080 Speaker 1: in recent years. And for a long time pretty much 1341 01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,880 Speaker 1: the only people who could run a bank were Jewish people, 1342 01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,480 Speaker 1: and so they got a toe hold in that industry 1343 01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,320 Speaker 1: and that that has been a major factor, uh in 1344 01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,200 Speaker 1: the rise of anti Semitism. It's it's not talked about 1345 01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:24,800 Speaker 1: a lot now like we tend to think of the 1346 01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:28,520 Speaker 1: Nazis is really stirring up anti I mean they did, 1347 01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:30,520 Speaker 1: but there was a lot of at present in Europe 1348 01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:33,280 Speaker 1: in the United States. There are still churches all throughout 1349 01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,280 Speaker 1: Europe that have stained glass reliefs of which called a 1350 01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:40,080 Speaker 1: judent sow, which is a pig that's supposed to represent 1351 01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:44,760 Speaker 1: a Jewish woman nursing Jewish babies, like there's still representations 1352 01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,240 Speaker 1: of the Blood Passover, which is like this idea that 1353 01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,880 Speaker 1: Jewish rabbis kill Christian kids to make their Passover bread. 1354 01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:53,600 Speaker 1: Like those things are in You can go find churches 1355 01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:55,960 Speaker 1: today in Europe that still have stained glass reliefs of 1356 01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,600 Speaker 1: that stuff. If you look at it, like, anti Semitism 1357 01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,560 Speaker 1: did not start with the Nazis. It was everywhere prior 1358 01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:05,480 Speaker 1: to World War Two. And so the studio heads in 1359 01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,360 Speaker 1: Hollywood were terrified of this, and we're very aware of it. 1360 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:12,160 Speaker 1: And we're seeing fascist sympathy surging in the United States 1361 01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:14,240 Speaker 1: prior to World War two, and we're seeing anti Semitism 1362 01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:16,240 Speaker 1: surge in the United States prior to World War Two. 1363 01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:19,559 Speaker 1: So they were scared and they wanted Hollywood not to 1364 01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:21,559 Speaker 1: stir things up and make it worse. That was a 1365 01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,920 Speaker 1: legitimate fear that if we make movies about Jewish people 1366 01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,200 Speaker 1: in any way, if we address the Nazi issue in 1367 01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:31,160 Speaker 1: any way, if we're seen as trying to change American 1368 01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:35,360 Speaker 1: opinion towards the Nazis, that will encourage more violence against 1369 01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:38,120 Speaker 1: Jewish people. So that is another factor here that is 1370 01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:40,639 Speaker 1: something all of these Jewish studio heads and production people 1371 01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,200 Speaker 1: are very concerned about. Jewish people were very divided about 1372 01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:46,920 Speaker 1: what to do because there were a lot of Jewish 1373 01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,439 Speaker 1: speakers at this time who thought that Hollywood need to 1374 01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,759 Speaker 1: address like the issues that the Nazis raised. Rabbi Stephen 1375 01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,880 Speaker 1: Wise of the American Jewish Congress said this in ninety three, 1376 01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:58,599 Speaker 1: the time for caution and prudence's past. What is happening 1377 01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:00,800 Speaker 1: in Germany today may happen to morrow in any other 1378 01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,200 Speaker 1: land on Earth unless it is challenged and rebuked. It 1379 01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:05,479 Speaker 1: is not the German Jews who are being attacked. It 1380 01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,360 Speaker 1: is the Jews. We must speak out. If that is unavailing, 1381 01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,080 Speaker 1: at least we shall have spoken. So this is not 1382 01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:14,479 Speaker 1: like none of these are uniform groups. There are a 1383 01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:17,160 Speaker 1: lot of Jewish people saying fucking Hollywood ought to do something, 1384 01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:19,680 Speaker 1: But there's also a lot of very scared people in 1385 01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:23,000 Speaker 1: Hollywood being like, maybe it's bad to do anything. Um. 1386 01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,280 Speaker 1: So that speaker just quoted with from the American Jewish 1387 01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:28,360 Speaker 1: Congress um who called for a total boycott on German 1388 01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:32,000 Speaker 1: products in nineteen thirty. Now, the American Jewish Committee and 1389 01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,320 Speaker 1: the Benigh Breath protested this. They were more on the 1390 01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,920 Speaker 1: don't rock the boat side of things, and those Jewish 1391 01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:41,040 Speaker 1: advocacy groups were closer head closer ties to the film industry, 1392 01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:43,720 Speaker 1: so their feelings wound up having a larger impact on 1393 01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:47,080 Speaker 1: the policy of the major studios at the time. UM. 1394 01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,320 Speaker 1: From nineteen hundred to nineteen twenty nine, some two d 1395 01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,200 Speaker 1: and thirty movies had been made about Jewish people. There 1396 01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,760 Speaker 1: would be significantly fewer released during the Nazi era. I 1397 01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:58,560 Speaker 1: think one of the things that's worth noting is that 1398 01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,839 Speaker 1: from ninety four or sixty three Hollywood movies had featured 1399 01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:07,479 Speaker 1: Jewish characters. Right in the next six years, from nineteen 1400 01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:12,280 Speaker 1: thirty four to nineteen forty, only twenty four films featured 1401 01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,200 Speaker 1: Jewish actors. So yeah, about two thirds is what this 1402 01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:18,200 Speaker 1: This drops by um, and we're going to get into 1403 01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:23,360 Speaker 1: why right now. UM. See, in nineteen thirty four, a 1404 01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,639 Speaker 1: former Warner Brothers employee named Darryl z and Nuck got 1405 01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:28,200 Speaker 1: his hands on the script for a movie called The 1406 01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:31,760 Speaker 1: House of Rothschild. Since he wasn't Jewish himself and was 1407 01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,439 Speaker 1: the co founder of his own studio, Twentieth Century Pictures, 1408 01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:36,479 Speaker 1: he felt free to produce whatever the hell he wanted. 1409 01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:39,640 Speaker 1: He saw this movie as a critique of anti Semitism 1410 01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:41,800 Speaker 1: and a carefully availed attack on Hitler, because it would 1411 01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,640 Speaker 1: be talking about how Jewish people have been persecuted a 1412 01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:46,880 Speaker 1: century or so ago in Europe, but it would clearly 1413 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,280 Speaker 1: be he thought people, would you know, Yeah right? Um? 1414 01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:51,960 Speaker 1: So Yeah, though it was set in the fat past, 1415 01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,120 Speaker 1: the film addressed the present at one point. His main 1416 01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:57,040 Speaker 1: character even said quote, go into the Jewish quarter of 1417 01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,920 Speaker 1: any town in Prussia today and you'll see men lying dead, 1418 01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:02,519 Speaker 1: but for one crime that they were Jews. So this 1419 01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:05,760 Speaker 1: is like a pretty direct attempt to address it. But 1420 01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:08,719 Speaker 1: there's a double irony in this movie. The first irony 1421 01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:10,360 Speaker 1: is that only a non Jew at this point in 1422 01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:12,320 Speaker 1: Hollywood could have gotten away with making a film that 1423 01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:17,040 Speaker 1: directly addressed anti Semitic violence. The second irony is that 1424 01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:19,880 Speaker 1: the fact that Zanuck was not Jewish meant that he 1425 01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:24,240 Speaker 1: didn't notice that his film attacking anti Semitism wound up 1426 01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:27,240 Speaker 1: being anti Semitic as fuck. Real. Yeah, it was not 1427 01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:31,160 Speaker 1: intentionally so, um, But one of its central scenes involved 1428 01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:34,240 Speaker 1: a Jewish banker, the patriarch of the Rothschild family, bribing 1429 01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:37,120 Speaker 1: a tax collector and cheating the government out of his money. 1430 01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:40,040 Speaker 1: During a rant about the unfairness of anti Semitism. This 1431 01:11:40,120 --> 01:11:43,519 Speaker 1: banker shouted, quote, work and strive for money. Money is power. 1432 01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:45,600 Speaker 1: Money is the only weapon that the Jew has to 1433 01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:51,719 Speaker 1: defend himself with. So Zanuk's heart is in the right place. Yeah, Yeah, 1434 01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:54,840 Speaker 1: he's not seeing it clearly. Yeah. The inciting incident of 1435 01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:57,679 Speaker 1: the movie is when the patriarch of the Rothschild family, 1436 01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,200 Speaker 1: on his deathbed, urges his five sons to create at 1437 01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,719 Speaker 1: five bank branches in different cities across Europe. He says, quote, 1438 01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:05,880 Speaker 1: your banking houses may cover Europe, but you will be 1439 01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:09,280 Speaker 1: one firm, one family, the Rothchilds, who always work together. 1440 01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:11,920 Speaker 1: That will be your power. And remember this before all, 1441 01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:14,800 Speaker 1: neither business, nor power, nor all the golden Europe will 1442 01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:18,760 Speaker 1: bring you happiness. Till we are people have equality, respect, dignity, 1443 01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,240 Speaker 1: to trade with dignity, to live with dignity, to walk 1444 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:23,479 Speaker 1: the world with dignity. So he's trying there's a good 1445 01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:25,439 Speaker 1: message in here. There's a good message in here, but 1446 01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,720 Speaker 1: it's couched in like a story about bankers who like 1447 01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:33,400 Speaker 1: a big part of the movie trying to comment and 1448 01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:37,120 Speaker 1: exactly and it focuses a lot on Nathan Roth's child 1449 01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,800 Speaker 1: wheeling and dealing with different European leaders in order to 1450 01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:44,080 Speaker 1: fund the defeat of Napoleon. So some of this plot 1451 01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:48,799 Speaker 1: could very easily be anti Jewish propaganda, and many American 1452 01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:51,800 Speaker 1: Jews were horrified by the movie. Um, it also had 1453 01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:53,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people who loved it, and a lot 1454 01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:56,320 Speaker 1: of Jewish people in America thought it was a heroic movie, 1455 01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,120 Speaker 1: and it still has a reputation as like, whatever you 1456 01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,160 Speaker 1: will say about its las, at least he tried, right, like, 1457 01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:04,599 Speaker 1: you can't, you can't condemn it, when when other people 1458 01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:08,559 Speaker 1: seemed to be deliberately not trying. Yeah, but this did 1459 01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:10,439 Speaker 1: scare a lot of Jewish people, particularly a lot of 1460 01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:12,559 Speaker 1: Jewish people in the film industry, and so as a result, 1461 01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:15,400 Speaker 1: throughout the nineteen thirties, Jewish actors started getting less and 1462 01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:18,320 Speaker 1: less work. It's debatable as to how much of that 1463 01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:19,880 Speaker 1: was out of a desire to please the Nazis and 1464 01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:21,120 Speaker 1: how much of it was due to the fears of 1465 01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:24,000 Speaker 1: Jewish political leaders. Whichever cause was more to blame, the 1466 01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,640 Speaker 1: result is in dispute. Jewish people started disappearing from the 1467 01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:29,439 Speaker 1: silver screen long before the Germans disappeared them on Moss 1468 01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:32,839 Speaker 1: from Europe. We do know at least that the Nazis 1469 01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,559 Speaker 1: were fans of the House of Rothschild. In nineteen forty 1470 01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:37,600 Speaker 1: they were released The Eternal Jew, which is one of 1471 01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:40,960 Speaker 1: the violence propaganda films and all of history. That film 1472 01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:45,120 Speaker 1: included that scene from Zenox movie where the elder Rothschild 1473 01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:48,080 Speaker 1: cheats the tax assessor. Like that whole scene was included 1474 01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,280 Speaker 1: in this Nazi propaganda film, but a German voiceover played 1475 01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:53,599 Speaker 1: during the scene, saying, here we show a scene from 1476 01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:55,960 Speaker 1: a film about the Rothschild family. It was made by 1477 01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,320 Speaker 1: American Jews, obviously, is a tribute to one of the 1478 01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:00,840 Speaker 1: greatest names in Jewish history. They honor their hero in 1479 01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,439 Speaker 1: a typically Jewish manner, delighting in the way old Meyer 1480 01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:06,680 Speaker 1: Mshell Rothschild cheats his host state by feigning poverty in 1481 01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:12,200 Speaker 1: order to avoid paying taxes. So, yeah, it's tough. The 1482 01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:14,040 Speaker 1: guy tries to do the right thing and he accidentally 1483 01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:18,040 Speaker 1: makes Nazi propaganda like, so you gotta do a spin it, man. 1484 01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:22,200 Speaker 1: It's a mess, yeah right, yeah, yeah, are you are? 1485 01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:26,200 Speaker 1: No one's trying, and the person who's trying is making 1486 01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:28,880 Speaker 1: some mistakes and then also fueling the fire of the 1487 01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:34,559 Speaker 1: people he's against. Which yeah, sucks. And not only are 1488 01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,919 Speaker 1: the people not trying, there seems to be some evidence, 1489 01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:42,040 Speaker 1: whether directed from the Nazi government or just to make 1490 01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:44,960 Speaker 1: their own money, that they're like, oh, yeah, we don't 1491 01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:48,479 Speaker 1: even want you make in movies that could infringe on 1492 01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:53,200 Speaker 1: Hollywood's profitability in Germany don't rock the boat or Nazi 1493 01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:56,000 Speaker 1: Germany to be more specific. So we're going to get 1494 01:14:56,000 --> 01:15:00,479 Speaker 1: into the rest of this possible collaboration, uh, and we're 1495 01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:03,439 Speaker 1: also going to talk about the pro fascist movies that 1496 01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:08,000 Speaker 1: Americans made completely by accidents in this period of time. Yeah, 1497 01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:11,160 Speaker 1: it's a wacky story, Daniel. But this is where part 1498 01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:13,240 Speaker 1: one's gonna end, So the listeners gonna have to catch 1499 01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:15,400 Speaker 1: the rest of this on Thursday. Daniel. At the end 1500 01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:17,960 Speaker 1: of this episode, do you have any plug doubles to plug? Yes. 1501 01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:20,639 Speaker 1: I would like to let people know I'm starting Daniel 1502 01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:24,080 Speaker 1: van Kirk The Together tour that will start on the 1503 01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:28,559 Speaker 1: eighteenth of September, and I'm going to be hitting up 1504 01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:30,360 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of cities. The first leg of it 1505 01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:34,720 Speaker 1: is Houston, Austin, Dallas, Lafia, and Baton Rouge. If you 1506 01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:36,880 Speaker 1: go to Daniel van Kirk dot com or my Twitter 1507 01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,760 Speaker 1: handle at Daniel van Kirk. You can find all that 1508 01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:42,960 Speaker 1: information there and I will also be doing a live 1509 01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,800 Speaker 1: Dumb People Town October twenty as part of the All 1510 01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:50,960 Speaker 1: Things Comedy Festival in Phoenix. Well that's just grand. I'm 1511 01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:52,880 Speaker 1: Robert Evans. You can find me on Twitter at I 1512 01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:55,839 Speaker 1: right okay. You can find this podcast on the internet 1513 01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:57,680 Speaker 1: at behind the Bastards dot com, which is where all 1514 01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:00,880 Speaker 1: of the sources for today's podcast pea this. You can 1515 01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,800 Speaker 1: also find us on Twitter and Instagram at at Bastard's pod. 1516 01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:06,960 Speaker 1: So check us out and I will see you all 1517 01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:10,839 Speaker 1: in like two days to talk more about Nazis in Hollywood. 1518 01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:15,080 Speaker 1: H