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Speaker 1: Pushkin.

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Speaker 2: The New Pornographers have never been easy to pin down.

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Speaker 2: Since forming in Vancouver in the late nineties, the band

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Speaker 2: became one of the defining acts of the Canadian indie

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Speaker 2: rock explosion, the part of a scene that also produced

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Speaker 2: Nico Case Destroyer and a generation of artists who seemed

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Speaker 2: to operate entirely outside the commercial mainstream. Co founders Carl

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Speaker 2: Newman and Katherine Calder have spent more than two decades

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Speaker 2: making records that are densely layered, relentlessly melodic, and somehow

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Speaker 2: both euphoork and melancholic at the same time. Their latest album,

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Speaker 2: The Former Site Of draws on a different kind of

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Speaker 2: raw material. Part of it came from a friend's terminal

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Speaker 2: illness in the weight of watching someone you love recking

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Speaker 2: with time running out. Part of it came from something

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Speaker 2: more unexpected, the last remaining payphone in New York City,

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Speaker 2: which became a kind of anchor image for the record,

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Speaker 2: a physical object standing in for everything we hold on

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Speaker 2: to after it stops being useful. On today's episode, Bruce

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Speaker 2: headlam sits down with Carl Newman and Katherine call There

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Speaker 2: to talk about what their new album came from. What

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Speaker 2: it's like to make something beautiful out of grief, and

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Speaker 2: how the Canadian music scene that shaped them still runs

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Speaker 2: through everything they do. This is Broken Record, real musicians,

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Speaker 2: real conversations. Here's Bruce Headlam with Carl Newman and Catherine

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Speaker 2: call There. Head over to YouTube dot com slash Broken

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Speaker 2: Record Podcast if you want to see the video.

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Speaker 1: So tell me first of all about the name of

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Speaker 1: the new album and explain that to me. The former

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Speaker 1: site of well this is I.

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Speaker 3: Have a great answer. I have a great answer. It's

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Speaker 3: kind of a long answer. Living in upstate New York,

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Speaker 3: I would drive past the reservoirs they you know, which

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Speaker 3: is where in New York City water comes from the

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Speaker 3: Kren Reservoir, the nearby the one near us ya Choken

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Speaker 3: Reservoir has a sign next to it that says the

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Speaker 3: former site of West Hurley. And when I saw that sign,

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Speaker 3: I was kind of fascinated, like what happened to West Hurley?

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Speaker 3: And I started looking into the history, and around like

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Speaker 3: nineteen oh five, New York decided, you know, we need

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Speaker 3: these areas for the reservoirs. So they they got towns

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Speaker 3: to just uproot and leave, and they said, we'll buy

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Speaker 3: your property. But if you won't sell it to us,

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Speaker 3: well we're going to take it anyway, so you might

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Speaker 3: as well sell it to us. So parts of the

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Speaker 3: towns just got raised, and then anything they wanted to say,

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Speaker 3: they put the cars on wagons or sorry the they

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Speaker 3: put the buildings on wagons, and it took them away.

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Speaker 4: And so.

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Speaker 3: I was I was fascinated by the idea, and I

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Speaker 3: wrote the song the Former Site of about that, which is,

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Speaker 3: you know, about a church, about a preacher who decides

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Speaker 3: he's going to stay with the church. It's like, I'm

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Speaker 3: just gonna and the water is rising around him and

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Speaker 3: he's sitting on the roof and he's about to die

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Speaker 3: because he's going to be flooded. And I thought that

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Speaker 3: was an interesting little story to try and tell. And

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Speaker 3: I also I also thought, like with all the changes

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Speaker 3: the bands have gone has gone through through the years,

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Speaker 3: to call our record the former site of and on

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Speaker 3: the record it basically reads us the former site of

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Speaker 3: the New Pornographers.

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Speaker 4: I thought I thought it was a.

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Speaker 3: Kind of you know, it was a slight slightly slightly ironic,

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Speaker 3: but an element of truth there about you know, various

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Speaker 3: things that have changed through the years, good and bad,

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Speaker 3: and and also just my my urge to always want

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Speaker 3: to change, you know, like I want I want the

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Speaker 3: pornographers to be something different. But the the weird ps

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Speaker 3: to that story, that is, we just played WDST, a

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Speaker 3: radio station outside of Woodstock, and it's in a church,

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Speaker 3: and I found out right before we started playing that

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Speaker 3: it was a church that had actually been moved from

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Speaker 3: West Hurley.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So it was essentially we were playing we were playing

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Speaker 3: this song about the church in West Hurley inside that

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Speaker 3: actual church that used to be in West Hurley, which

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Speaker 3: I thought was kind of mind blowing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for people like me who bought your first album

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Speaker 1: when it came out and been following you along, tell

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Speaker 1: me what's changed in your songwriting between those early days

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Speaker 1: and this new album.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I know what's changed in my songwriting

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Speaker 3: in the last few years. I think I decided to

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Speaker 3: write very narrative songs on this album, or a lot

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Speaker 3: a lot more narrative songs, songs that were clear, not

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Speaker 3: like I'm trying to write Glory Days by Springsteen or anything,

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Speaker 3: but I just wanted songs that were a little clearer.

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Speaker 3: I think I think if i've if I was trying

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Speaker 3: to write like anyone. I'd say Leonard Cohen, you know,

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Speaker 3: like the the pictures he paints in like Suzanne or

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Speaker 3: Sisters of Mercy, which is a kind of high thing

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Speaker 3: to shoot for. But you got to shoot for something high,

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Speaker 3: and so that's different to me. And also I'm I

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Speaker 3: know how to I never used to know anything about engineering.

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Speaker 3: I used to stand behind John Collins, our bass player,

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Speaker 3: and say do this, do this?

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Speaker 4: Can you make it? Do this? And and now I

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Speaker 4: can do a lot of that stuff on my own.

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Speaker 3: Which I love because it means like I can, you know,

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Speaker 3: any given day, I can just go to my studio

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Speaker 3: space and just work for a couple hours and engineer,

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Speaker 3: and like, I can do everything now except play instruments. Well,

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Speaker 3: but it's rock and roll music, so I can get

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Speaker 3: away with not doing that. And plus I have other

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Speaker 3: people that can play instruments. Well.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting because this album, to me was the writing

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Speaker 1: felt different, not on every song, but.

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Speaker 4: Oh to me, it feels very different. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the I think of your songs, you know,

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Speaker 1: particularly on your big albums like Real Bruisers or Morse Code,

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Speaker 1: they're very linear songs. They start with a big hook,

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Speaker 1: they go to you know, verse chorus, middle eight, They're

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Speaker 1: often quite different. This one felt like it was built differently,

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Speaker 1: Like it was built in layers. Almost.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I like, I don't. I wouldn't call it

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Speaker 3: a concept album, but I think I wanted it to

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Speaker 3: all fit together. I wanted it to I wanted to

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Speaker 3: have a similar feel. I wanted it lyrically and have

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Speaker 3: a similar feel. I mean, even to the extent that

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Speaker 3: the final song, the former site of like name checks

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Speaker 3: characters from the previous songs, like I just wanted to have,

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Speaker 3: you know, I think I've said to people I wanted

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Speaker 3: it to feel a little bit like a little book

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Speaker 3: of short stories. But that feels like a slightly pretentious

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Speaker 3: thing to say. But that's I guess you gotta.

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Speaker 4: Shoot for maximum, you know, pretense.

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Speaker 1: It's a very pretentious thing. Yes, that's what makes it work. Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: some of you. Some of these songs reminded me of

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Speaker 1: particular short stories. The I want to get the title right,

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Speaker 1: and I always write these things down. Wish you could

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Speaker 1: see me. I'm killing it. Tell me about that song.

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Speaker 3: I mean that one is essentially just something very real

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Speaker 3: that happened and I think I just fictionalized slightly, and

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Speaker 3: it was both of my parents have passed away, and

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Speaker 3: a few years ago I was at the flower store

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Speaker 3: and you're the graveyard, the cemetery, and I was buying

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Speaker 3: flowers and I got this really nice, you know, bouquet

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Speaker 3: from my mom, and then I was looking for my dad,

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Speaker 3: and I started thinking, like, he didn't care about flowers,

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Speaker 3: you know, so I bought him.

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Speaker 4: I bought him like flowers and were quite as nice as.

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Speaker 3: My mom's, because I just thought like he he doesn't care,

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Speaker 3: like my dad would be like, no, what are you

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Speaker 3: spending flowers? You know, why would you spend forty dollars

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Speaker 3: getting me flowers? Get those ones that are on sale.

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Speaker 4: And and then.

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Speaker 3: That just made it just made me think about how

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Speaker 3: we talk I guess how we talked to the dead,

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Speaker 3: which is even a line one of one of the

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Speaker 3: last lines in the Former Sight of.

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Speaker 4: We find our own ways to talk to the dead.

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Speaker 3: And then from there I started thinking about you know,

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Speaker 3: it was a song, It was a song about that,

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Speaker 3: but then it became more about this person who's who

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Speaker 3: has spent so long buying flowers for his parents' graves

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Speaker 3: that he knows a lot about flowers now, and he

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Speaker 3: can and he can tell you, and he can tell

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Speaker 3: you about flower arranging. So there there's something kind of darkly,

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Speaker 3: darkly comic in there, but it's also meant to.

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Speaker 4: Be kind of a knife to the gut.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's one of the few songs I think I've ever written.

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Speaker 3: I almost like made myself cry writing it.

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Speaker 4: And it's also the line like I wish you could

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Speaker 4: see me I'm killing it is a little.

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Speaker 3: Like like I'm not exactly sure what I meant, you know,

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Speaker 3: Like it means both I wish you could see everything

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Speaker 3: I've done, but it also it also means.

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Speaker 4: I'm kind of you know, I don't think I'm killing it.

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Speaker 4: M M, I give you some help.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, what came across to me was the narrator

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Speaker 1: felt a little foolish, a little overwhelmed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think, I think, I think, I think

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Speaker 3: there's that. But yeah, that was yeah that I felt

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Speaker 3: very happy about that, that song.

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Speaker 1: You know what it reminded me of, And now that

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Speaker 1: I know the origin of the song has nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with it. The James Joyce story. Araby, do you

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Speaker 1: know that story?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: No, Oh, it's in Dubliner's it's a kid who goes

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Speaker 1: to a little fair to buy a present for this

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Speaker 1: girly lins and it's he's overwhelmed. It's getting dark, the

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Speaker 1: fair is closing and he can't buy anything, and he

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Speaker 1: just there's this terrible line at the end when he

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Speaker 1: feels like, I think a creature, a creature derided by vanity.

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Speaker 1: I think is the line, and just kind of that

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Speaker 1: sense of being a little overwhelmed.

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Speaker 3: That's I think. I think, I think there is that.

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Speaker 3: I think there is that that element of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because that ultimately I didn't I don't know anything about flowers,

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Speaker 3: you know, but uh but I guess this character I

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Speaker 3: was trying to write kind of kind of does.

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Speaker 1: Did writing more narratively Did that change the melody writing

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Speaker 1: at all?

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Speaker 4: It did? We were just talking about that last night.

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Speaker 3: I think I just became less precious about melody or

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Speaker 3: like like I would write a melody and then when

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Speaker 3: the melody met the lyrics, when the melody met the lyrics,

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Speaker 3: and when they both met performance, like whatever I had

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Speaker 3: to change to make it feel better.

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Speaker 4: I would.

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Speaker 1: Is that different for you before you came?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I I think I as used to

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Speaker 3: think like, this is this is the melody I wrote,

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Speaker 3: and sometimes it'd be like it's hard to sing. It's like, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, I guess I will go into falsetto and

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Speaker 3: sing it, you know, like like I I would bend

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Speaker 3: around whatever the melody was in this one, and maybe

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Speaker 3: on the last one as well, and then the one

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Speaker 3: before that. I think I think about a few years ago,

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Speaker 3: I started thinking, just changed the melody and just sing

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Speaker 3: what feels good. The first song I remember doing that

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Speaker 3: on was a song called falling down the Stairs of

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Speaker 3: Your Smile from Morse Code to Break Lights. I remember

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Speaker 3: I wasn't sure about it and then I just I

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Speaker 3: just sang. I just sang it again. I just wanted

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Speaker 3: to find it. Yeah, because I remember that I wanted

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Speaker 3: to drop it. I was in her her husband call

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Speaker 3: and mixed it and I remember saying like this isn't

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Speaker 3: working on to drop in him turning around, going this

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Speaker 3: is the best song on the record, and I said, okay,

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Speaker 3: well I guess I should finish it, and yeah, and

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Speaker 3: I just I just I just sang it until I

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Speaker 3: found something that felt good singing, and I thought, and

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Speaker 3: then that really worked. It became like the single and

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Speaker 3: I think it was the best song on the record,

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Speaker 3: and and I think I carried that into continue as

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Speaker 3: a guest. And on this record, I mean, there's an

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Speaker 3: infinite amount of melodies. I mean it's nice, it's maddening,

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Speaker 3: but it's just there are.

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Speaker 4: So many melodies, Like why not change the melody? It's like.

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Speaker 1: Before, were you, uh we a writer who just got

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Speaker 1: the harmony down for the song and then pulled the

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Speaker 1: melody out of that.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I think it usually started with a melody.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, It's like.

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Speaker 3: Like chords and a melody are or sometimes I would

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Speaker 3: just kind of sing something just like into my into

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Speaker 3: my phone, into my voice notes, and and then I'd

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Speaker 3: go and play the chords, Go what are the chords

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Speaker 3: of this? Sometimes I hate to find out what the

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Speaker 3: chords are. Sometimes it ruins it really. Sometimes you think

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Speaker 3: you've come up with something really interesting. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: the chords are G, C and D. That's so boring.

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Speaker 3: But then it's amazing when you realize, oh, yeah, the

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Speaker 3: chords are C minor and A minor.

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Speaker 4: That's weird. You know.

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Speaker 1: This album also felt a little fewer chords in this album,

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Speaker 1: maybe a little less harmonically complex earlier album.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that, although there's still when I when

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Speaker 3: I play the songs now, there's more chords than I

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Speaker 3: think there are, like you know, like for for us,

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Speaker 3: like a song that doesn't have very many chords is

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Speaker 3: six chords, you know, but you know, lou Reid said

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Speaker 3: any more than two chords is jazz. So I'm I

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Speaker 3: think another thing I've done and tried to do in

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Speaker 3: the last decade was just see how much you can

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Speaker 3: move around with not very many chords, because you know,

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Speaker 3: just like there are infinite amounts of melodies, there are

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Speaker 3: kind of infinite places you can go within two chords.

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Speaker 3: Like sometimes I just like the cycle back and forth

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Speaker 3: between like G and A just two chords that are

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Speaker 3: just a step apart, and there's so much you can do.

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Speaker 3: You know, you can write, you can write a hundred

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Speaker 3: songs that are different that are just cycling back and

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Speaker 3: forth between A G. There's so many things you can change,

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Speaker 3: the tempo, the way it's syncopated, the melody, just the vibe.

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Speaker 1: It's great to hear you say that, because I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of musicians fear the opposite, that they only

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Speaker 1: know a few chords, there are only twelve notes. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it's all been done well.

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Speaker 3: I that really annoys me, you know, I think it's

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Speaker 3: just laziness, you know. I think if you can't figure

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Speaker 3: out how to do it, and you don't want to

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Speaker 3: figure out how to do it, I don't know what

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Speaker 3: to tell you.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: Do you work hard at songwriting just something you do

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Speaker 1: every day?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I do. I try to.

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Speaker 3: I mean I feel like it's part of like I

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Speaker 3: think it's part of like, you know, mental health process,

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Speaker 3: you know, Like I think I think it's good just

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Speaker 3: to to use your brain. You know, like in some

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Speaker 3: ways it doesn't feel that dissimilar to going on in

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Speaker 3: New York Times spelling bee, you know, like like like

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to find an answer, you know, like I've

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Speaker 3: but it's a puzzle. It's a puzzle I invented, you know.

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Speaker 3: It's it's a it's an amorphis puzzle that I invented.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, how do you solve this puzzle? And like,

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Speaker 3: I know there's an answer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. By the way, the panagram today is befouled. Just

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Speaker 1: want you to know I know that I've already done it. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: there you go.

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Speaker 3: Genius by the way, not Queen Bee. But it was

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Speaker 3: a pretty easy one today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah hard.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back with more from the New Pornographers after

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Speaker 2: the break.

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Speaker 1: So, Catherine, when you saw these songs, could you present

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Speaker 1: them to the band? Right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, well altogether.

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Speaker 1: No, But what did you think? What was what was

307
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Speaker 1: your first reaction and what did you think you could add?

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Speaker 6: I don't know, I just I I guess I approached

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Speaker 6: these songs when Carl sends them to me with a

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Speaker 6: kind of a sense of I'll just do what comes

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Speaker 6: to me, and I'll send it back.

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Speaker 4: And we'll see how it goes.

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Speaker 6: Knowing that, knowing that, you know, I think a lot

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Speaker 6: of things are going to change between the time I've

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Speaker 6: listened to that version of the song and the final version.

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Speaker 6: Because I've been in a band with Carl for over

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Speaker 6: twenty years now, Yeah, and I know the process and

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Speaker 6: the process itself hasn't changed that much. No, like over

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Speaker 6: the you know, except from now. You know, I'm more

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Speaker 6: able to do things from my own house, which is

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Speaker 6: awesome because it means I have more personal control over

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Speaker 6: what I'm doing and my knowledge has increased. Like to

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Speaker 6: be able to do that kind of like you're you

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Speaker 6: were just saying, you know, you can record on your own,

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Speaker 6: and now so can I. And that wasn't the case

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Speaker 6: when I first joined the band, so so that personally

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00:18:33,276 --> 00:18:38,036
Speaker 6: has changed. But yeah, I just expect unexpected twists and

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Speaker 6: turns and adjust accordingly, and.

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Speaker 4: I love it and it usually comes.

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Speaker 3: Like I think Catherine and Todd, Fancy and John Collins,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think they all kind of.

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Speaker 4: Like know.

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Speaker 3: How I work or not, maybe not how I want

334
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Speaker 3: to work, but just how I'm doomed to work. And

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Speaker 3: they they will they will always send me like a

336
00:19:01,156 --> 00:19:04,436
Speaker 3: bunch of ideas for a song, Like Fancy never gives

337
00:19:04,436 --> 00:19:06,756
Speaker 3: me a full take, like he will play a cool

338
00:19:06,956 --> 00:19:09,116
Speaker 3: guitar part and it only is only in the first

339
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Speaker 3: forty five seconds because I think he knows, like, like

340
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Speaker 3: what's the point. Like like if I if I find

341
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Speaker 3: something that he did that I totally love, I will

342
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Speaker 3: go back and go, can you do a full take

343
00:19:21,276 --> 00:19:23,436
Speaker 3: of that? And usually I will like paste it up

344
00:19:23,756 --> 00:19:24,996
Speaker 3: and and I'll do that with.

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Speaker 4: Something Catherine plays or John plays. I'll just be this is.

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Speaker 3: Cool, and sometimes it's sometimes it changes the song. Sometimes

347
00:19:33,916 --> 00:19:36,436
Speaker 3: I'll go like that's the only good thing that keyboard

348
00:19:36,516 --> 00:19:38,436
Speaker 3: thing Catherine did is the only good thing in the song.

349
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Speaker 3: You know, I'll be like the keyboard you got, so

350
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Speaker 3: we got the keyboard and the and the beat, and you.

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Speaker 4: Know it's just you know, yeah, they're just you know,

352
00:19:49,876 --> 00:19:50,836
Speaker 4: they're like tools.

353
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Speaker 1: What was the song on this album that underwent the

354
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Speaker 1: biggest transformation once people got their parts back to you?

355
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Speaker 4: I have no idea. I cannot remember.

356
00:20:06,836 --> 00:20:12,156
Speaker 3: It's it's I think it's always It's like it's it

357
00:20:12,236 --> 00:20:14,196
Speaker 3: goes on for so long and I'm always like working

358
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Speaker 3: on things, and you know, they don't remember, you know, I'm.

359
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Speaker 6: Sure maybe Spooky Action.

360
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Speaker 3: Spooky Action went. Yeah, that went through a big transformation. Actually,

361
00:20:24,596 --> 00:20:31,796
Speaker 3: that that one, that one definitely did. Yes, I'm glad

362
00:20:31,796 --> 00:20:32,596
Speaker 3: you caught that one.

363
00:20:34,076 --> 00:20:35,036
Speaker 4: I remember that.

364
00:20:35,036 --> 00:20:37,156
Speaker 3: That That one felt like it was like it was

365
00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:42,556
Speaker 3: hard to get it like it was a lot of

366
00:20:42,596 --> 00:20:45,756
Speaker 3: things happening, but it was it was hard to to

367
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Speaker 3: make it smooth and and interesting. And sometimes you get

368
00:20:50,436 --> 00:20:52,716
Speaker 3: to a point where you have too many ideas. At

369
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Speaker 3: the end of an album, I feel like there's a

370
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Speaker 3: lot of muting.

371
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Speaker 1: You're taking things out. Yeah, do you do that more? Now?

372
00:21:01,436 --> 00:21:05,516
Speaker 1: This album felt a little area or a little less yeah, yeah, yeah,

373
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Speaker 1: a little less heavy, complicated and some of your other records.

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00:21:11,156 --> 00:21:13,836
Speaker 3: Yeah, but but I think ironically, I think that kind

375
00:21:13,836 --> 00:21:16,516
Speaker 3: of makes it a little more, a little more complicated,

376
00:21:16,556 --> 00:21:21,236
Speaker 3: you know. I think it's uh, it's just less less noisy. Well,

377
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Speaker 3: one thing I one thing I've thought about in the

378
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Speaker 3: last few years, which might be the most obvious thing

379
00:21:27,116 --> 00:21:30,956
Speaker 3: in the world, but I just learned it, or I

380
00:21:30,956 --> 00:21:32,876
Speaker 3: don't know if it's something I can say I learned,

381
00:21:32,876 --> 00:21:35,036
Speaker 3: but it's it's it's a theory I have, and it

382
00:21:35,116 --> 00:21:39,636
Speaker 3: is that if something cannot be the loudest thing in the.

383
00:21:39,596 --> 00:21:41,356
Speaker 4: Mix, it shouldn't be in there.

384
00:21:42,796 --> 00:21:46,516
Speaker 3: Wow, like like because so many times through the years

385
00:21:46,556 --> 00:21:48,676
Speaker 3: have been like, oh this part.

386
00:21:48,516 --> 00:21:52,436
Speaker 4: Is cool, but oh it's not. It's too loud, you know,

387
00:21:52,556 --> 00:21:53,196
Speaker 4: like pull.

388
00:21:53,036 --> 00:21:55,436
Speaker 3: It down and you know, and you're burying things. And

389
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Speaker 3: I just thought, no, if if it can't be the

390
00:22:00,156 --> 00:22:03,556
Speaker 3: loudest thing, it shouldn't be there, you know, if if

391
00:22:03,636 --> 00:22:06,636
Speaker 3: something if yeah, if something's going to bother you, if

392
00:22:06,636 --> 00:22:09,556
Speaker 3: it's too loud, and it's to me it seems seemingly

393
00:22:09,596 --> 00:22:12,556
Speaker 3: obvious now like, yeah, it probably shouldn't be in the mix,

394
00:22:13,156 --> 00:22:17,076
Speaker 3: And that's helpful. To me, because when you listen to

395
00:22:17,116 --> 00:22:20,716
Speaker 3: an album on different stereos, it always sounds different, or

396
00:22:20,796 --> 00:22:23,516
Speaker 3: if you listen to like the album playing in the

397
00:22:23,556 --> 00:22:26,356
Speaker 3: next room, it sounds different. So on this record, I

398
00:22:26,356 --> 00:22:28,836
Speaker 3: feel like I've eliminated that because now I listen to

399
00:22:28,876 --> 00:22:30,716
Speaker 3: it and I go, well, that sounds louder and that

400
00:22:30,796 --> 00:22:31,476
Speaker 3: sounds quieter.

401
00:22:31,596 --> 00:22:32,316
Speaker 4: But who cares.

402
00:22:32,756 --> 00:22:34,916
Speaker 1: Do you ever ever have experienced someone's playing a song

403
00:22:34,956 --> 00:22:37,396
Speaker 1: in another room and you can't tell what the song is,

404
00:22:38,076 --> 00:22:40,076
Speaker 1: but it so it sounds really cool, and then when

405
00:22:40,116 --> 00:22:42,316
Speaker 1: you hear it, it's almost a little bit of a disappointment.

406
00:22:42,476 --> 00:22:46,316
Speaker 4: That wasn't that? How you know invented ambient music? Oh?

407
00:22:46,356 --> 00:22:46,796
Speaker 1: I don't know.

408
00:22:47,076 --> 00:22:48,236
Speaker 4: Yeah, apparently he was.

409
00:22:48,196 --> 00:22:50,756
Speaker 3: In like a hospital or something and he just heard

410
00:22:50,796 --> 00:22:53,036
Speaker 3: some like music playing like fear in the distance, and

411
00:22:53,076 --> 00:22:53,836
Speaker 3: he couldn't.

412
00:22:53,516 --> 00:22:56,596
Speaker 4: Tell what it was, and he just thought that was

413
00:22:56,596 --> 00:23:00,236
Speaker 4: a cool effect, Right, that's how you invent a genre.

414
00:23:00,556 --> 00:23:00,956
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

415
00:23:01,796 --> 00:23:04,196
Speaker 3: Just a bunch of music you can barely hear, and

416
00:23:04,196 --> 00:23:06,436
Speaker 3: it's like, what if all the music was meant to

417
00:23:06,436 --> 00:23:07,236
Speaker 3: be barely heard?

418
00:23:08,796 --> 00:23:10,676
Speaker 1: You may shod spooky action. Tell me about that. It's

419
00:23:10,756 --> 00:23:12,916
Speaker 1: got a very vivid.

420
00:23:14,156 --> 00:23:17,276
Speaker 4: Narrative. Well, that's good. That's the one song. My wife

421
00:23:17,276 --> 00:23:18,916
Speaker 4: said she couldn't figure out what was going on.

422
00:23:20,996 --> 00:23:26,676
Speaker 3: Well, I was reading about, you know, I was reading

423
00:23:26,676 --> 00:23:29,436
Speaker 3: about a couple of things. I was reading about quantum entanglement,

424
00:23:30,196 --> 00:23:36,156
Speaker 3: and Einstein said that quantum entanglement was spooky action at

425
00:23:36,196 --> 00:23:39,996
Speaker 3: a distance, which I thought was an interesting turn of phrase.

426
00:23:40,756 --> 00:23:44,276
Speaker 3: And then unrelated to that, I was reading an article

427
00:23:44,276 --> 00:23:49,236
Speaker 3: about the Cassini Huygens probe, which you know, was circling

428
00:23:49,276 --> 00:23:52,756
Speaker 3: Saturn for thirteen years and taking pictures of it and

429
00:23:52,796 --> 00:23:55,076
Speaker 3: that's how we know so much about everything that's going

430
00:23:55,076 --> 00:23:58,036
Speaker 3: on around there. And then at the end of it,

431
00:23:58,036 --> 00:24:01,796
Speaker 3: it you know, immolated itself and they flew it into

432
00:24:01,836 --> 00:24:03,036
Speaker 3: Saturn and it burned.

433
00:24:03,116 --> 00:24:05,756
Speaker 4: And the idea was that it would.

434
00:24:05,596 --> 00:24:07,876
Speaker 3: Be a song about like the last moments of the

435
00:24:07,916 --> 00:24:11,796
Speaker 3: Cassini Huygens pro where for some reason it's sentient I

436
00:24:11,796 --> 00:24:16,076
Speaker 3: guess just artistic license, but the idea of like, what's

437
00:24:16,196 --> 00:24:18,076
Speaker 3: what's it thinking right before it dies?

438
00:24:19,356 --> 00:24:21,676
Speaker 4: And I thought the last.

439
00:24:21,436 --> 00:24:26,116
Speaker 3: Thing it would think would be like, wow, this is beautiful,

440
00:24:26,316 --> 00:24:29,556
Speaker 3: you know, just looking looking at everything around it. That's

441
00:24:29,636 --> 00:24:32,916
Speaker 3: basically the little snapshot I wanted it to be.

442
00:24:35,516 --> 00:24:38,756
Speaker 1: Why is that such a sad thing? The idea of

443
00:24:38,836 --> 00:24:41,036
Speaker 1: this space pro it's done all its work and then

444
00:24:41,156 --> 00:24:43,156
Speaker 1: just like it heads into the planet to burn up.

445
00:24:43,756 --> 00:24:45,836
Speaker 1: I find it's just an incredibly sad image.

446
00:24:46,116 --> 00:24:48,236
Speaker 4: Really, I mean, I guess it kind of is.

447
00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:53,836
Speaker 3: But I also, I mean there's not much of it.

448
00:24:54,516 --> 00:24:58,036
Speaker 3: There's not much of it in the song, only one line.

449
00:24:58,196 --> 00:25:04,796
Speaker 3: But the subtext in my brain was that quantum entanglement,

450
00:25:04,996 --> 00:25:09,916
Speaker 3: the idea that you're connected with something and you're never

451
00:25:10,236 --> 00:25:12,316
Speaker 3: you're always connected with it. There could be billions of

452
00:25:12,316 --> 00:25:15,316
Speaker 3: miles between you, but you're still connected to it is

453
00:25:15,356 --> 00:25:17,716
Speaker 3: a kind of like a beautiful idea. And it made

454
00:25:17,716 --> 00:25:20,596
Speaker 3: me think of like the idea of heaven, of a

455
00:25:20,836 --> 00:25:24,396
Speaker 3: people we've lost, how we're always connected.

456
00:25:24,916 --> 00:25:29,156
Speaker 4: And so there's a line in the song where it was.

457
00:25:29,156 --> 00:25:34,956
Speaker 3: Like like a, I guess it's the part in the

458
00:25:34,956 --> 00:25:36,996
Speaker 3: song where it flies into Saturn and it was like

459
00:25:37,036 --> 00:25:39,516
Speaker 3: a series of nail biting dives and I'm done.

460
00:25:39,556 --> 00:25:44,636
Speaker 4: I'm on the cloud. And the with the double meaning.

461
00:25:46,516 --> 00:25:50,796
Speaker 3: Being that all the information inside Castini Huygens is on

462
00:25:50,836 --> 00:25:54,556
Speaker 3: the cloud, like like the machine is gone, that everything

463
00:25:54,556 --> 00:25:58,076
Speaker 3: it learned is, you know, on the literal cloud. And

464
00:25:58,116 --> 00:26:02,916
Speaker 3: then but then the idea of like the cloud like heaven, right,

465
00:26:03,596 --> 00:26:07,796
Speaker 3: So so there's kind of a I think it's kind

466
00:26:07,796 --> 00:26:11,796
Speaker 3: of a spiritual song. And I think the the line

467
00:26:11,836 --> 00:26:13,836
Speaker 3: about like have you seen it the way it's meant

468
00:26:13,876 --> 00:26:14,396
Speaker 3: to be seen?

469
00:26:14,556 --> 00:26:18,796
Speaker 4: Is supposed to be a very hopeful line.

470
00:26:18,996 --> 00:26:21,796
Speaker 3: I think it's just a very another way of saying

471
00:26:21,836 --> 00:26:26,796
Speaker 3: stop and smell the roses. That the casini heiens haygens

472
00:26:26,836 --> 00:26:31,356
Speaker 3: probe isn't sad to die, you know, it's just look

473
00:26:31,396 --> 00:26:33,596
Speaker 3: at how beautiful this is. Like I'm going to go now,

474
00:26:34,236 --> 00:26:38,636
Speaker 3: which seems like a you know, that's how I'd like

475
00:26:38,676 --> 00:26:41,676
Speaker 3: to depart this earth. I think, what a beautiful place.

476
00:26:41,716 --> 00:26:42,276
Speaker 4: See you later.

477
00:26:43,356 --> 00:26:47,276
Speaker 1: Okay. In both the cases of the songs we've talked about,

478
00:26:47,836 --> 00:26:51,076
Speaker 1: you've come up with an initial idea from the sign

479
00:26:51,556 --> 00:26:54,636
Speaker 1: from this from reading Einstein, where a lot of people

480
00:26:54,636 --> 00:26:57,196
Speaker 1: get their lyrics by the way, from Einstein.

481
00:26:57,276 --> 00:26:58,676
Speaker 4: Well, I wasn't reading Einstein.

482
00:26:58,796 --> 00:27:01,196
Speaker 3: It was like it was like an article somewhere, you know,

483
00:27:01,276 --> 00:27:02,956
Speaker 3: I'm sure I clicked on it.

484
00:27:02,276 --> 00:27:03,556
Speaker 4: It was it.

485
00:27:03,516 --> 00:27:07,116
Speaker 3: Was probably like a smart person clickbait. Okay, spooky action,

486
00:27:07,236 --> 00:27:07,676
Speaker 3: what's this.

487
00:27:10,796 --> 00:27:11,276
Speaker 1: Prostrate?

488
00:27:11,316 --> 00:27:11,476
Speaker 4: Try?

489
00:27:11,596 --> 00:27:15,276
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, I have my email address, curse them, Yeah,

490
00:27:15,796 --> 00:27:18,276
Speaker 3: get all these democrats asking me for money.

491
00:27:18,636 --> 00:27:21,076
Speaker 1: But then, but then you do a lot of research

492
00:27:21,076 --> 00:27:23,516
Speaker 1: because you mentioned all the stars, you mentioned the things

493
00:27:23,556 --> 00:27:26,476
Speaker 1: that it would have seen, and in the other case,

494
00:27:26,556 --> 00:27:29,916
Speaker 1: you you looked at what those communities would have been

495
00:27:29,956 --> 00:27:30,396
Speaker 1: like and you.

496
00:27:30,396 --> 00:27:32,836
Speaker 4: Describe Yeah, which which was new to me.

497
00:27:33,196 --> 00:27:33,876
Speaker 1: Is that new to you?

498
00:27:34,756 --> 00:27:39,316
Speaker 3: I've never done I've never done research like int into songs,

499
00:27:41,636 --> 00:27:45,236
Speaker 3: like yeah, I would just try and find like, you know,

500
00:27:45,236 --> 00:27:48,916
Speaker 3: because I have a vague idea of like this.

501
00:27:48,956 --> 00:27:50,876
Speaker 4: You know, the weird story I'm trying to tell.

502
00:27:50,916 --> 00:27:54,036
Speaker 3: But then I'm like, I need some details to make this,

503
00:27:55,436 --> 00:27:58,956
Speaker 3: you know, just to surround it with. And then unspooky action.

504
00:27:59,156 --> 00:28:02,556
Speaker 3: I looked up like oh, and some of it was

505
00:28:02,596 --> 00:28:05,716
Speaker 3: just you just try and find things that sounded cool,

506
00:28:05,796 --> 00:28:07,116
Speaker 3: like the Arc of Daphness.

507
00:28:07,636 --> 00:28:11,916
Speaker 4: That's cool, keelers Edge, that's cool. The Loan Propeller. It's like,

508
00:28:11,956 --> 00:28:13,156
Speaker 4: what's the loan Propeller.

509
00:28:13,316 --> 00:28:16,436
Speaker 3: Oh, it's it was made by Moonlits And it's like, oh,

510
00:28:16,436 --> 00:28:17,036
Speaker 3: that's cool.

511
00:28:18,996 --> 00:28:21,076
Speaker 1: That should be its own song, The Loan Propeller. That's

512
00:28:21,076 --> 00:28:21,716
Speaker 1: a great title.

513
00:28:22,116 --> 00:28:27,116
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I guess it can be. I'm allowed to

514
00:28:27,156 --> 00:28:28,236
Speaker 4: do that. But I doubt I will.

515
00:28:28,996 --> 00:28:31,036
Speaker 3: I think I've exhausted everything I have to say on

516
00:28:31,076 --> 00:28:34,196
Speaker 3: the matter with with the eighty words I wrote.

517
00:28:34,476 --> 00:28:39,996
Speaker 1: You know, so tell me about a ballot of the

518
00:28:40,036 --> 00:28:40,996
Speaker 1: last pay phone.

519
00:28:42,156 --> 00:28:42,396
Speaker 4: Yeah?

520
00:28:42,476 --> 00:28:42,836
Speaker 3: That was?

521
00:28:43,676 --> 00:28:45,396
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was That was. That was another one I was.

522
00:28:45,756 --> 00:28:49,476
Speaker 3: I was reading about the last payphone in New York City,

523
00:28:49,876 --> 00:28:56,036
Speaker 3: and I thought.

524
00:28:54,036 --> 00:28:55,716
Speaker 1: Did you go see it? You see it at the

525
00:28:55,756 --> 00:28:56,716
Speaker 1: Museum of New York.

526
00:28:56,836 --> 00:28:57,556
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly.

527
00:28:58,716 --> 00:29:03,716
Speaker 1: I hope they cleaned it up, because ye remember, I'm

528
00:29:03,756 --> 00:29:04,756
Speaker 1: sure they did.

529
00:29:07,236 --> 00:29:13,276
Speaker 4: But again, I was talking about this. Last night. There

530
00:29:13,356 --> 00:29:13,556
Speaker 4: was this.

531
00:29:14,316 --> 00:29:19,076
Speaker 3: Even though I'm I'm not a big Raven Raymond Carver expert,

532
00:29:20,276 --> 00:29:23,276
Speaker 3: I read this little five page short story called Fat.

533
00:29:23,796 --> 00:29:26,276
Speaker 3: It was about this this waitress in bed at night

534
00:29:26,316 --> 00:29:28,836
Speaker 3: with her boyfriend and she's talking about this overweight man

535
00:29:28,996 --> 00:29:33,556
Speaker 3: she served and she can't she know, she can't put

536
00:29:33,596 --> 00:29:38,196
Speaker 3: it into words, what you know, what fascinated her about him?

537
00:29:38,236 --> 00:29:40,236
Speaker 3: And she doesn't even know why she's talking about him.

538
00:29:40,236 --> 00:29:41,756
Speaker 3: And I think her boyfriend is like, what are you

539
00:29:41,796 --> 00:29:46,236
Speaker 3: talking about? And but you're reading it, and you know, like, oh,

540
00:29:46,356 --> 00:29:49,636
Speaker 3: she relates to this man somehow. There's something, there's something

541
00:29:50,636 --> 00:29:53,196
Speaker 3: in him that she sees in herself. But she she

542
00:29:53,236 --> 00:29:55,836
Speaker 3: can't figure it out. So I was thinking of that,

543
00:29:56,316 --> 00:30:00,556
Speaker 3: and and instead of that, it was this guy who

544
00:30:00,636 --> 00:30:03,036
Speaker 3: goes to see the last payphone in the museum of

545
00:30:03,076 --> 00:30:05,556
Speaker 3: the City of New York. And he's looking at it,

546
00:30:05,596 --> 00:30:09,036
Speaker 3: and you can't quite figure out why he's so fascinated

547
00:30:09,316 --> 00:30:12,956
Speaker 3: the last payphone. But but to me, it seems very obvious,

548
00:30:13,036 --> 00:30:17,716
Speaker 3: because you know, the last payphone got left behind. You know,

549
00:30:18,516 --> 00:30:20,916
Speaker 3: it used to be important, it used to be a

550
00:30:20,916 --> 00:30:23,756
Speaker 3: big part of the world, and then now it's in

551
00:30:23,756 --> 00:30:27,316
Speaker 3: a museum. Now it's just like a relic. And I thought,

552
00:30:27,676 --> 00:30:30,036
Speaker 3: to me, it seems pretty easy. Why a person might

553
00:30:31,196 --> 00:30:31,996
Speaker 3: a person.

554
00:30:31,756 --> 00:30:33,916
Speaker 1: Might be not so different from the satellite story.

555
00:30:34,916 --> 00:30:37,396
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean they're they're they're all meant to

556
00:30:37,436 --> 00:30:40,996
Speaker 3: be like very very similar. I mean like I was

557
00:30:41,076 --> 00:30:43,916
Speaker 3: like to me, like I wanted them all to be

558
00:30:44,116 --> 00:30:49,476
Speaker 3: kind of stories about loss and acceptance, Like like when

559
00:30:49,516 --> 00:30:51,796
Speaker 3: you start with loss, yeah, it makes it seem like

560
00:30:51,836 --> 00:30:52,676
Speaker 3: they're very sad.

561
00:30:53,356 --> 00:30:57,556
Speaker 1: But was that something that emerged from the stories or

562
00:30:57,596 --> 00:31:00,676
Speaker 1: something when you sat down you wrote loss at the

563
00:31:00,716 --> 00:31:03,316
Speaker 1: top of the paper and said, no, no ideas.

564
00:31:03,396 --> 00:31:05,396
Speaker 4: I think it just im I think it just immerged.

565
00:31:06,636 --> 00:31:07,996
Speaker 1: Why do you think it emerged now.

566
00:31:09,596 --> 00:31:11,316
Speaker 4: I don't know.

567
00:31:11,636 --> 00:31:13,996
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe it's just maybe it's just like getting

568
00:31:14,116 --> 00:31:17,356
Speaker 3: getting older, just just just trying, just trying to figure

569
00:31:17,396 --> 00:31:23,036
Speaker 3: out life. It's just but it really was just it

570
00:31:23,196 --> 00:31:28,756
Speaker 3: wasn't really conscious. I mean, what I was consciously trying

571
00:31:28,756 --> 00:31:32,156
Speaker 3: to write only came together as it as it took

572
00:31:32,196 --> 00:31:35,156
Speaker 3: form on its own, and I began I began to

573
00:31:35,196 --> 00:31:38,396
Speaker 3: see that there was there was a connection between the

574
00:31:38,436 --> 00:31:41,516
Speaker 3: things I was writing, like I had to go back myself.

575
00:31:44,076 --> 00:31:46,756
Speaker 3: But I mean, I think that's also I mean that's

576
00:31:46,756 --> 00:31:48,196
Speaker 3: what I struggle with.

577
00:31:48,156 --> 00:31:50,596
Speaker 4: I mean, having struggled with like mental health.

578
00:31:51,756 --> 00:31:54,956
Speaker 3: I I think that those are those are strong feelings

579
00:31:55,796 --> 00:32:00,436
Speaker 3: like trying to you know, trying to come out the

580
00:32:00,476 --> 00:32:05,236
Speaker 3: other side, trying trying to be happy, you know, trying

581
00:32:05,236 --> 00:32:07,036
Speaker 3: to figure out what can I do to be happy?

582
00:32:07,596 --> 00:32:09,196
Speaker 3: And one of the things you have to do to

583
00:32:09,276 --> 00:32:11,596
Speaker 3: be happy. I think it was just like ride with

584
00:32:11,676 --> 00:32:19,796
Speaker 3: all the loss and tragedy in your life, you know, yeah,

585
00:32:19,996 --> 00:32:26,156
Speaker 3: just like a The one song, the song on the

586
00:32:26,196 --> 00:32:28,996
Speaker 3: record that is the most absolutely auto biographical, it's called

587
00:32:28,996 --> 00:32:32,716
Speaker 3: like Bonus My Ties, about my friend Cheryl who died

588
00:32:32,756 --> 00:32:35,236
Speaker 3: of cancer, and it was about the first time I

589
00:32:35,316 --> 00:32:37,156
Speaker 3: saw her, and.

590
00:32:37,436 --> 00:32:40,076
Speaker 4: I was so shocked that.

591
00:32:41,596 --> 00:32:46,036
Speaker 3: She had already seemingly accepted like she had spent she

592
00:32:46,076 --> 00:32:49,036
Speaker 3: had spent months dealing with the fact that she was

593
00:32:49,076 --> 00:32:51,876
Speaker 3: going to die soon. And I was talking to her

594
00:32:51,876 --> 00:32:55,716
Speaker 3: and she was very and she was very, very like

595
00:32:55,956 --> 00:32:57,996
Speaker 3: matter of fact about it, like how like, oh, I'm

596
00:32:57,996 --> 00:33:00,876
Speaker 3: worried about I'm worried about Warren. She was worried about

597
00:33:00,916 --> 00:33:03,876
Speaker 3: her husband, who's like an old old friend of mine,

598
00:33:04,076 --> 00:33:07,036
Speaker 3: and like, what's what's you know, how's he going to

599
00:33:07,116 --> 00:33:12,236
Speaker 3: deal with me dying? And she they always made drinks.

600
00:33:12,276 --> 00:33:14,476
Speaker 3: They were the couple that would always have like different

601
00:33:14,556 --> 00:33:15,476
Speaker 3: drinks when you came over.

602
00:33:15,516 --> 00:33:17,996
Speaker 4: And that night they made my ties.

603
00:33:17,716 --> 00:33:19,596
Speaker 3: And I just thought, like, you're going through this hell

604
00:33:19,636 --> 00:33:22,596
Speaker 3: in your life, but you're still making my ties for

605
00:33:22,636 --> 00:33:26,636
Speaker 3: your friends and they're coming over and you know, and

606
00:33:27,076 --> 00:33:29,636
Speaker 3: I think we both got in my tie and she said,

607
00:33:31,756 --> 00:33:33,996
Speaker 3: you know, like I should have I should have died

608
00:33:34,116 --> 00:33:35,916
Speaker 3: four months ago. Everybody thought I was going to die

609
00:33:35,956 --> 00:33:39,676
Speaker 3: four months ago because it was so bad, and you know,

610
00:33:39,756 --> 00:33:42,316
Speaker 3: this is my bonus time on earth, and so like

611
00:33:42,356 --> 00:33:45,876
Speaker 3: this is a bonus my tie and everything like cheers,

612
00:33:46,036 --> 00:33:50,516
Speaker 3: you know, drinking on my ties. And but I just thought,

613
00:33:50,556 --> 00:33:54,236
Speaker 3: how like what it's it's sad.

614
00:33:54,916 --> 00:33:57,516
Speaker 4: But there was a kind of there's a kind of

615
00:33:58,076 --> 00:33:59,276
Speaker 4: beauty to.

616
00:34:01,116 --> 00:34:06,836
Speaker 3: How people face the inevitable. You know, it's like everybody's

617
00:34:06,916 --> 00:34:08,996
Speaker 3: everybody's going to die and you can put your head

618
00:34:08,996 --> 00:34:12,636
Speaker 3: in the sand and say no, not me. I'm you know,

619
00:34:12,716 --> 00:34:14,916
Speaker 3: I'm going to be like some comedians said, I'm going

620
00:34:14,996 --> 00:34:16,796
Speaker 3: to be immortal, and so far, so good.

621
00:34:17,036 --> 00:34:17,236
Speaker 4: You know.

622
00:34:17,396 --> 00:34:23,836
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think I think that's a I think

623
00:34:23,836 --> 00:34:28,236
Speaker 3: that's in a I think there is something just yeah,

624
00:34:28,316 --> 00:34:32,516
Speaker 3: beautiful about figuring out how to, like you know, how

625
00:34:32,556 --> 00:34:35,036
Speaker 3: to how to end, how to how to how to

626
00:34:35,116 --> 00:34:36,156
Speaker 3: deal with things ending.

627
00:34:37,876 --> 00:34:41,156
Speaker 2: Well, let's break and we'll be back with the New Pornographers.

628
00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:50,356
Speaker 1: You know, the the songs, particularly Spooky Action, the Payphone song.

629
00:34:50,436 --> 00:34:52,956
Speaker 1: They remind me you always have a lot of technology

630
00:34:52,996 --> 00:34:56,236
Speaker 1: in your songs, do I. Well, you have like twin cinemas,

631
00:34:56,276 --> 00:34:58,716
Speaker 1: which is when I was a kid, I remember the

632
00:34:58,716 --> 00:35:01,356
Speaker 1: first time there's a twin cinema and nobody could you

633
00:35:01,396 --> 00:35:03,556
Speaker 1: can go and choose what movie you could see? That

634
00:35:03,636 --> 00:35:06,116
Speaker 1: seemed incredible. Of course they was showing the same one

635
00:35:06,116 --> 00:35:10,436
Speaker 1: on both screens when you get there exactly. But break lights,

636
00:35:11,596 --> 00:35:14,596
Speaker 1: things like that, and there's sort of the kind of

637
00:35:14,596 --> 00:35:17,836
Speaker 1: old fashioned technology that's sort of sort of like about

638
00:35:17,836 --> 00:35:19,076
Speaker 1: it in your songs.

639
00:35:19,516 --> 00:35:23,316
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think I can see that, yeah, and.

640
00:35:24,076 --> 00:35:26,596
Speaker 1: It makes me think, you know, it almost reminds me

641
00:35:26,716 --> 00:35:29,356
Speaker 1: of the Kinks. You know how the Kinks were like

642
00:35:29,356 --> 00:35:31,076
Speaker 1: a modern band, but they always seem to be singing

643
00:35:31,116 --> 00:35:34,396
Speaker 1: about things that were like thirty or forty years old. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

644
00:35:34,636 --> 00:35:37,276
Speaker 1: To me, I always get that sense with new pornographers

645
00:35:37,316 --> 00:35:40,676
Speaker 1: that like it's a very up to bate band, but

646
00:35:42,436 --> 00:35:45,716
Speaker 1: the sense of loss over these kind of old technologies

647
00:35:45,716 --> 00:35:48,276
Speaker 1: fading away. I always got that from your music.

648
00:35:48,716 --> 00:35:49,996
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I can see that.

649
00:35:50,116 --> 00:35:54,196
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, even though it's incredibly u tooth and obscure.

650
00:35:54,276 --> 00:35:57,516
Speaker 3: I think the song electric Version is kind of about that,

651
00:35:58,356 --> 00:36:00,876
Speaker 3: although I couldn't even tell you what the lyrics are

652
00:36:00,956 --> 00:36:01,356
Speaker 3: right now.

653
00:36:02,636 --> 00:36:06,116
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I don't know. I don't know why

654
00:36:06,156 --> 00:36:08,436
Speaker 4: that is. I mean, I do think I come.

655
00:36:10,636 --> 00:36:13,356
Speaker 3: I come from a kind of like culturally, I feel

656
00:36:13,356 --> 00:36:18,436
Speaker 3: like I being a kid in the seventies. I remember

657
00:36:19,916 --> 00:36:24,276
Speaker 3: watching the reruns were from the fifties, so I had

658
00:36:24,356 --> 00:36:26,916
Speaker 3: like one culturally, I had like one foot in this

659
00:36:27,036 --> 00:36:29,516
Speaker 3: weird black and white past where I was watching I

660
00:36:29,596 --> 00:36:33,516
Speaker 3: Love Lucy and The Andy Griffiths Show and and things

661
00:36:33,596 --> 00:36:38,316
Speaker 3: like that. And also my parents were like I was.

662
00:36:38,396 --> 00:36:42,196
Speaker 3: I was the youngest of five kids, so it was

663
00:36:42,236 --> 00:36:47,276
Speaker 3: like the uh my parents were like, we're from a

664
00:36:47,316 --> 00:36:51,676
Speaker 3: generation like basically before rock and roll, you know, like

665
00:36:51,676 --> 00:36:54,036
Speaker 3: like I think my mom was a young mother. You know,

666
00:36:54,116 --> 00:36:57,676
Speaker 3: I think she had a baby when Elvis showed up.

667
00:36:57,996 --> 00:36:59,996
Speaker 3: You know, she might have had a newborn. So like

668
00:37:00,076 --> 00:37:02,996
Speaker 3: they were so there was this whole like you know

669
00:37:04,396 --> 00:37:06,716
Speaker 3: that there was like my life but like my parents,

670
00:37:06,756 --> 00:37:09,036
Speaker 3: like to me, seemed to come from a distant pat.

671
00:37:09,556 --> 00:37:11,796
Speaker 1: Okay, what what record albums did you have at home

672
00:37:11,836 --> 00:37:12,276
Speaker 1: growing up?

673
00:37:13,636 --> 00:37:13,756
Speaker 3: Uh?

674
00:37:13,916 --> 00:37:15,956
Speaker 4: You mean like that I bought or No.

675
00:37:16,436 --> 00:37:19,596
Speaker 1: I'm always I'm always fascinated that people because.

676
00:37:19,756 --> 00:37:22,276
Speaker 4: Well they like they like country music.

677
00:37:22,356 --> 00:37:24,756
Speaker 1: Oh really okay, most people I know, like they would

678
00:37:24,796 --> 00:37:26,716
Speaker 1: they'd have like the Sound of Music soundtrack.

679
00:37:27,076 --> 00:37:28,156
Speaker 4: No, they were not at all.

680
00:37:28,356 --> 00:37:28,836
Speaker 1: Now they were.

681
00:37:29,076 --> 00:37:30,636
Speaker 4: It was it was country music.

682
00:37:30,636 --> 00:37:33,116
Speaker 3: I remember my mom liked Charlie Pride and I still

683
00:37:33,156 --> 00:37:38,316
Speaker 3: love those Charlie Pride records. She like really liked Freddie Fender,

684
00:37:39,036 --> 00:37:41,836
Speaker 3: you know, she liked she just liked country music. I

685
00:37:41,836 --> 00:37:43,956
Speaker 3: remember we had a k Tel country music record that

686
00:37:43,956 --> 00:37:46,956
Speaker 3: I absolutely loved, you know, I had like.

687
00:37:48,556 --> 00:37:51,076
Speaker 4: You know, I beg your pardon. I never promised you

688
00:37:51,076 --> 00:37:52,196
Speaker 4: a Rose Guardian like.

689
00:37:52,236 --> 00:37:56,036
Speaker 3: I still love that that met That country politan is

690
00:37:56,076 --> 00:37:59,196
Speaker 3: still my favorite country music.

691
00:37:59,316 --> 00:38:01,756
Speaker 4: Like Charlie Rich. What was the big Charlie Rich hit?

692
00:38:02,836 --> 00:38:07,036
Speaker 4: Hey did you happen? Let's see the most beautiful.

693
00:38:06,516 --> 00:38:11,196
Speaker 1: Grool h I love that Behind Closed Doors? Wasn't that

694
00:38:11,196 --> 00:38:11,876
Speaker 1: one of his? Yeah?

695
00:38:11,916 --> 00:38:12,476
Speaker 4: Yeah?

696
00:38:12,516 --> 00:38:15,396
Speaker 3: We had a best of Whale and Jennings record I remember,

697
00:38:16,876 --> 00:38:18,956
Speaker 3: which I didn't know was outlaw country. It just seemed

698
00:38:18,956 --> 00:38:23,476
Speaker 3: like more country to me. But I had older brothers

699
00:38:23,516 --> 00:38:25,636
Speaker 3: and sisters, so I think that's how I hold that's

700
00:38:25,676 --> 00:38:28,116
Speaker 3: how I heard other music. Like when I was like

701
00:38:28,276 --> 00:38:30,876
Speaker 3: nine or ten, I had an older brother who bought

702
00:38:31,676 --> 00:38:35,396
Speaker 3: never Mind the Bollocks and Talking Head seventy seven, So

703
00:38:35,476 --> 00:38:37,876
Speaker 3: there was music I remember, and because of them. I

704
00:38:37,916 --> 00:38:41,396
Speaker 3: remember the White album was around or like the like

705
00:38:41,516 --> 00:38:45,716
Speaker 3: Wings greatest hits, Like there wasn't a ton, It wasn't

706
00:38:45,716 --> 00:38:48,436
Speaker 3: a ton of music. My sister who was closest to me,

707
00:38:48,516 --> 00:38:52,796
Speaker 3: really like Pat Benatar, and she liked you know, Ario Speedwagon,

708
00:38:53,076 --> 00:38:55,596
Speaker 3: hind Fidelity and I thought that was cool too.

709
00:38:56,076 --> 00:38:58,076
Speaker 1: But you didn't start playing till much later, right, I

710
00:38:58,116 --> 00:38:58,556
Speaker 1: didn't start.

711
00:38:58,556 --> 00:39:00,316
Speaker 4: I didn't pick up a guitar until I was eighteen.

712
00:39:00,956 --> 00:39:05,436
Speaker 3: But around the age of sixteen, that's when I think

713
00:39:05,476 --> 00:39:09,116
Speaker 3: I decided that music was a big part of my personality.

714
00:39:09,836 --> 00:39:13,236
Speaker 3: And I became obsessed with ra em like murmur and

715
00:39:13,276 --> 00:39:16,396
Speaker 3: reckoning and chronic Town and I loved the Smiths, and

716
00:39:16,476 --> 00:39:19,396
Speaker 3: I loved echoing the Bunnyman, and I loved violent Fems

717
00:39:19,436 --> 00:39:22,956
Speaker 3: and Husker doing the replacements and whoever.

718
00:39:23,356 --> 00:39:23,556
Speaker 1: You know.

719
00:39:24,236 --> 00:39:26,236
Speaker 4: One of the advantage, I felt like a nerd, but

720
00:39:26,276 --> 00:39:28,196
Speaker 4: I was super cool when I look back at what

721
00:39:28,196 --> 00:39:28,836
Speaker 4: I was listening to.

722
00:39:28,996 --> 00:39:31,716
Speaker 1: I just had one of the advantages growing up in Canadas.

723
00:39:31,756 --> 00:39:33,716
Speaker 1: You just got a lot more English bands, and you

724
00:39:33,796 --> 00:39:35,996
Speaker 1: got them much earlier than Americans did.

725
00:39:36,076 --> 00:39:36,356
Speaker 4: I think.

726
00:39:36,356 --> 00:39:42,116
Speaker 3: I think it's possible being being part of the Commonwealth, maybe, like, yeah,

727
00:39:42,156 --> 00:39:46,636
Speaker 3: I bought enemy, you know, religiously, was always interested about

728
00:39:46,636 --> 00:39:49,276
Speaker 3: what was going on there. I mean, the Queen was

729
00:39:49,276 --> 00:39:53,716
Speaker 3: on our money. I didn't understand disliking the Queen, but

730
00:39:54,796 --> 00:39:56,516
Speaker 3: at least I knew, like who were they were talking

731
00:39:56,516 --> 00:39:59,036
Speaker 3: about when they said when the sex pistols talk about

732
00:39:59,036 --> 00:40:03,356
Speaker 3: God Save the Queen. It's like I've seen her, Yeah,

733
00:40:03,396 --> 00:40:04,156
Speaker 3: God Save Her.

734
00:40:04,476 --> 00:40:06,356
Speaker 1: Was there one song? Was there one album that made

735
00:40:06,356 --> 00:40:08,596
Speaker 1: you think that made you pick up the guitar and

736
00:40:08,596 --> 00:40:09,356
Speaker 1: think I can do this.

737
00:40:11,276 --> 00:40:15,476
Speaker 4: No, I just said I loved music.

738
00:40:15,516 --> 00:40:19,236
Speaker 3: And I had a friend who just when I was eighteen,

739
00:40:19,316 --> 00:40:22,276
Speaker 3: said hey, I'll show you how to play a few chords.

740
00:40:22,316 --> 00:40:24,396
Speaker 3: Showed me how to play E, A and D and

741
00:40:24,436 --> 00:40:27,516
Speaker 3: he said, okay, now you can play Gloria by them,

742
00:40:27,876 --> 00:40:30,596
Speaker 3: and I thought that's cool. And then I realized that E,

743
00:40:30,716 --> 00:40:34,276
Speaker 3: A and D. I could also play Superman. The song

744
00:40:34,316 --> 00:40:35,556
Speaker 3: ari Em covered.

745
00:40:36,196 --> 00:40:39,316
Speaker 1: It was a sixty song right yeah, by the Click.

746
00:40:39,676 --> 00:40:45,076
Speaker 4: And which I learned years later. And then I think.

747
00:40:44,956 --> 00:40:50,676
Speaker 3: I I bought a Easy Guitar Beatles songbook, and I

748
00:40:50,676 --> 00:40:54,356
Speaker 3: think that's where I learned most of my chords. But

749
00:40:54,436 --> 00:40:58,396
Speaker 3: even Easy Guitar Beatles was still like every chord you know,

750
00:40:59,156 --> 00:41:02,316
Speaker 3: you were learning C seven and C minor, you know

751
00:41:02,636 --> 00:41:03,556
Speaker 3: C sharp minor.

752
00:41:04,196 --> 00:41:10,716
Speaker 1: And so when did the writing start, I think.

753
00:41:12,276 --> 00:41:14,756
Speaker 4: I don't know it was. I'm not even sure if

754
00:41:14,796 --> 00:41:15,756
Speaker 4: you'd call it writing.

755
00:41:15,956 --> 00:41:17,836
Speaker 3: I think I would just I would just like mess

756
00:41:17,876 --> 00:41:23,196
Speaker 3: around on the guitar, like I remember getting super into Uh.

757
00:41:24,876 --> 00:41:26,716
Speaker 3: There was a point where all I I'm not sure

758
00:41:26,756 --> 00:41:29,116
Speaker 3: if I started playing with anybody yet, but I became

759
00:41:29,156 --> 00:41:32,516
Speaker 3: obsessed with the Pixies and Throwing Muses. There was a

760
00:41:32,556 --> 00:41:35,276
Speaker 3: six month period where I honestly don't think I listened

761
00:41:35,276 --> 00:41:40,156
Speaker 3: to anything except Pixies and Throwing music. And there's some

762
00:41:40,756 --> 00:41:43,636
Speaker 3: especially with Throwing Muses, there was something cool and angular there.

763
00:41:43,676 --> 00:41:46,876
Speaker 3: I realized I could just pick up a guitar.

764
00:41:46,876 --> 00:41:48,556
Speaker 4: And I didn't even have to learn scales.

765
00:41:49,636 --> 00:41:52,116
Speaker 3: You know, I could just like make rhythmic noise, like

766
00:41:52,156 --> 00:41:55,236
Speaker 3: I could almost play like random notes, but if you

767
00:41:55,316 --> 00:41:58,036
Speaker 3: do them, if I play these five random notes, but

768
00:41:58,076 --> 00:42:00,756
Speaker 3: I keep doing it every few bars, like that's.

769
00:42:00,516 --> 00:42:02,516
Speaker 4: That's the part, you know. It felt like that's what

770
00:42:02,596 --> 00:42:06,036
Speaker 4: the Throwing Muses do. And then the Pixies.

771
00:42:06,076 --> 00:42:09,276
Speaker 3: I realized like it was the first music so that

772
00:42:09,516 --> 00:42:12,556
Speaker 3: I absolutely loved where I could break it apart and

773
00:42:12,596 --> 00:42:13,876
Speaker 3: figure out what the parts were.

774
00:42:14,596 --> 00:42:16,436
Speaker 4: It's like, okay, well the.

775
00:42:16,396 --> 00:42:19,476
Speaker 3: Bass is doing that simple thing, and the guitar is

776
00:42:19,516 --> 00:42:21,396
Speaker 3: just doing that simple thing, and the drums are doing

777
00:42:21,396 --> 00:42:24,916
Speaker 3: that and the guitar is just going you know, it's

778
00:42:24,956 --> 00:42:31,236
Speaker 3: just making cool simple melodies. And that was what I

779
00:42:31,276 --> 00:42:36,316
Speaker 3: think made me think I wanted to try making music,

780
00:42:36,476 --> 00:42:39,516
Speaker 3: but I was not serious about it that it even

781
00:42:39,556 --> 00:42:42,756
Speaker 3: occurred to me to imitate the Pixies or imitate throwing muses.

782
00:42:43,596 --> 00:42:48,476
Speaker 3: And I start my friend started a band. It was

783
00:42:48,476 --> 00:42:51,876
Speaker 3: called Superconductor because we thought it was a stupid name,

784
00:42:52,316 --> 00:42:54,156
Speaker 3: which was a very ninetiest thing to do.

785
00:42:54,596 --> 00:42:56,916
Speaker 4: This is the worst name. Let's start a band to

786
00:42:56,956 --> 00:42:58,116
Speaker 4: go with this terrible name.

787
00:42:58,876 --> 00:43:01,716
Speaker 3: And we ended up having six guitar players because six

788
00:43:01,756 --> 00:43:06,916
Speaker 3: guys who played guitar showed up. And then we just

789
00:43:07,356 --> 00:43:10,796
Speaker 3: and then nobody wanted to sing, and I realized, like, oh,

790
00:43:10,956 --> 00:43:14,196
Speaker 3: maybe I'm the singer. H And I never thought about

791
00:43:14,196 --> 00:43:16,356
Speaker 3: being a singer in the band, but it was almost like.

792
00:43:18,716 --> 00:43:19,076
Speaker 4: I don't.

793
00:43:19,116 --> 00:43:21,756
Speaker 3: I don't know why, you know, I I've been thinking

794
00:43:21,796 --> 00:43:28,236
Speaker 3: about it recently, how like about things being almost predestined,

795
00:43:28,636 --> 00:43:30,516
Speaker 3: like like how like how much of your life is

796
00:43:30,556 --> 00:43:31,076
Speaker 3: pre Will?

797
00:43:31,556 --> 00:43:32,396
Speaker 4: Sorry pre will?

798
00:43:32,556 --> 00:43:39,996
Speaker 5: Like that works too, pre Will pre Well, yeah, I

799
00:43:40,116 --> 00:43:44,036
Speaker 5: like to live pre Will. Uh it's my favorite era.

800
00:43:46,716 --> 00:43:47,876
Speaker 1: I was into pre love.

801
00:43:49,396 --> 00:43:50,796
Speaker 4: Exactly. Uh.

802
00:43:50,836 --> 00:43:55,716
Speaker 3: But the uh, because I've just becoming the singer in

803
00:43:55,756 --> 00:43:58,036
Speaker 3: the band, I just fell into it and it just

804
00:43:58,116 --> 00:44:01,556
Speaker 3: it just happened and I never I never intended and.

805
00:44:01,476 --> 00:44:04,756
Speaker 4: I I look, I look.

806
00:44:04,636 --> 00:44:07,116
Speaker 3: At myself playing music through the years, and I can't

807
00:44:07,156 --> 00:44:11,676
Speaker 3: figure out why I kept going because for the first

808
00:44:11,716 --> 00:44:15,556
Speaker 3: few years I wasn't very good. I was I wasn't

809
00:44:15,596 --> 00:44:19,596
Speaker 3: really taking it seriously, but I kept doing it.

810
00:44:19,476 --> 00:44:22,556
Speaker 1: Like I was in your twenties, Yeah, like early twenties.

811
00:44:23,316 --> 00:44:25,156
Speaker 1: What were you were you at school at that point?

812
00:44:25,236 --> 00:44:27,276
Speaker 1: Were you doing other things that you were more serious

813
00:44:27,276 --> 00:44:27,556
Speaker 1: about that.

814
00:44:27,676 --> 00:44:30,436
Speaker 3: I was a school but I was a terrible student.

815
00:44:30,636 --> 00:44:32,676
Speaker 3: You know, it's just a general loser.

816
00:44:33,956 --> 00:44:37,596
Speaker 1: Wow, you know, but I really selling this album, I

817
00:44:37,596 --> 00:44:38,236
Speaker 1: have to say.

818
00:44:38,356 --> 00:44:40,436
Speaker 3: But I think, but I know, I think I was

819
00:44:40,476 --> 00:44:45,236
Speaker 3: a loser because I was kind of not listening to

820
00:44:45,316 --> 00:44:47,836
Speaker 3: what my fate was, you know.

821
00:44:48,156 --> 00:44:48,796
Speaker 4: I think.

822
00:44:50,356 --> 00:44:55,596
Speaker 3: I was clearly being called towards something, and which is

823
00:44:55,636 --> 00:44:58,676
Speaker 3: kind of my point, and that like I would do

824
00:44:58,796 --> 00:45:02,076
Speaker 3: these shows where there's nobody there and we weren't very good,

825
00:45:02,676 --> 00:45:06,476
Speaker 3: but yet none of that it bummed me out, but

826
00:45:06,876 --> 00:45:08,716
Speaker 3: not enough that I would stop. And there are so

827
00:45:08,756 --> 00:45:10,396
Speaker 3: many things, things that I've been bad at in my

828
00:45:10,436 --> 00:45:12,116
Speaker 3: life that made me think I don't ever want to

829
00:45:12,156 --> 00:45:14,316
Speaker 3: do that again because I hate being.

830
00:45:14,156 --> 00:45:17,036
Speaker 4: Bad at it. But music, I just kept I kept

831
00:45:17,076 --> 00:45:18,076
Speaker 4: moving in that direction.

832
00:45:18,596 --> 00:45:20,596
Speaker 1: Now, was Vancouver a good place to be for that?

833
00:45:20,676 --> 00:45:24,636
Speaker 1: Were there was there a scene where they're good clubs?

834
00:45:24,676 --> 00:45:26,556
Speaker 1: Were there places you could go? Did people want to

835
00:45:26,596 --> 00:45:27,556
Speaker 1: hear new music?

836
00:45:28,116 --> 00:45:30,996
Speaker 3: I think so well, I think there's just you know,

837
00:45:31,556 --> 00:45:34,676
Speaker 3: you have group you have groups of people that like music.

838
00:45:34,796 --> 00:45:36,316
Speaker 4: I think I think that's where it starts.

839
00:45:36,996 --> 00:45:40,236
Speaker 3: You you collect in this city and you realize they

840
00:45:40,276 --> 00:45:42,476
Speaker 3: are the people that go to the same shows, or

841
00:45:42,476 --> 00:45:45,276
Speaker 3: maybe they all work at the same record store or

842
00:45:45,316 --> 00:45:48,796
Speaker 3: something like that, and at some point somebody says, oh,

843
00:45:48,876 --> 00:45:51,636
Speaker 3: maybe we should start a band because we we like

844
00:45:52,156 --> 00:45:55,276
Speaker 3: The Fall and mud Honey and Sonic Youth or whatever,

845
00:45:55,396 --> 00:46:01,476
Speaker 3: you know. And yeah, So, I mean I think every

846
00:46:01,516 --> 00:46:04,396
Speaker 3: city has that. And you have you know, you have

847
00:46:04,436 --> 00:46:06,916
Speaker 3: the kind of group of people and I don't know

848
00:46:06,956 --> 00:46:09,116
Speaker 3: if they have the girls that you're in love with

849
00:46:09,196 --> 00:46:10,316
Speaker 3: than that group of people.

850
00:46:10,436 --> 00:46:11,756
Speaker 4: And you know, and.

851
00:46:11,716 --> 00:46:13,676
Speaker 3: There are people that have their weird little clubs that

852
00:46:13,996 --> 00:46:16,316
Speaker 3: people have their weird little record stores and clubs that

853
00:46:16,476 --> 00:46:22,556
Speaker 3: let you play. So it was good that way, but nothing,

854
00:46:22,996 --> 00:46:27,876
Speaker 3: nothing really important was coming out of it. But you know,

855
00:46:28,116 --> 00:46:30,956
Speaker 3: it's I don't think that's that is important. It was

856
00:46:30,996 --> 00:46:33,356
Speaker 3: just a place for people to start. It was people

857
00:46:33,676 --> 00:46:35,796
Speaker 3: a place for people like me just to kind of

858
00:46:37,076 --> 00:46:41,236
Speaker 3: start playing people like me and pornographers and Destroyer and

859
00:46:41,276 --> 00:46:44,516
Speaker 3: Black Mountain, a place just for those people to start

860
00:46:44,556 --> 00:46:48,036
Speaker 3: playing music and see what happens, and some people drop out.

861
00:46:48,756 --> 00:46:50,556
Speaker 3: I used to think it was so strange that people

862
00:46:50,676 --> 00:46:54,996
Speaker 3: quit quit playing music, Like somebody I knew from the

863
00:46:55,036 --> 00:46:57,116
Speaker 3: scene who had a band that was going for years,

864
00:46:57,156 --> 00:46:58,916
Speaker 3: and one day they said, no, I'm going back to

865
00:46:58,916 --> 00:47:01,396
Speaker 3: school and they abandoned music forever.

866
00:47:01,956 --> 00:47:03,996
Speaker 4: And I thought, what you know?

867
00:47:04,036 --> 00:47:07,156
Speaker 3: And that's when I realized, Oh, people are doing this

868
00:47:07,316 --> 00:47:11,116
Speaker 3: for different reasons, like like like some people are starting

869
00:47:11,116 --> 00:47:12,876
Speaker 3: a band because they wanted to become popular, and if

870
00:47:12,876 --> 00:47:14,876
Speaker 3: they don't become popular, it's like, what's the point.

871
00:47:15,796 --> 00:47:18,476
Speaker 4: And I realized, No, I was not that person. I

872
00:47:18,516 --> 00:47:19,036
Speaker 4: was a person.

873
00:47:19,076 --> 00:47:22,596
Speaker 1: What person were you then? What allowed you to persevere? I?

874
00:47:23,756 --> 00:47:27,116
Speaker 3: Well, again, I think it was I had no choice.

875
00:47:27,596 --> 00:47:30,916
Speaker 3: It was just a direction I was moving in. It

876
00:47:30,956 --> 00:47:34,076
Speaker 3: never occurred to me to stop, and I loved it.

877
00:47:35,756 --> 00:47:38,956
Speaker 3: I loved the idea of it as a life pursuit.

878
00:47:39,636 --> 00:47:42,316
Speaker 3: I remember seeing the band The Sun City Girls play

879
00:47:42,316 --> 00:47:46,076
Speaker 3: in a radio station, and I was very inspired by

880
00:47:46,116 --> 00:47:48,836
Speaker 3: watching them, not only because they were good, but there

881
00:47:48,916 --> 00:47:53,156
Speaker 3: was a sense of music as a life pursuit, like

882
00:47:53,276 --> 00:47:57,836
Speaker 3: that they didn't care if they were popular. They I

883
00:47:57,836 --> 00:47:59,876
Speaker 3: could just sense this love of music. And I remember

884
00:47:59,916 --> 00:48:03,916
Speaker 3: seeing this songwriter from San Francisco named Barbara Manning, and

885
00:48:03,956 --> 00:48:07,556
Speaker 3: she gave me the same feeling, like she is doing

886
00:48:07,596 --> 00:48:11,836
Speaker 3: this for the love of it. And that was inspiring

887
00:48:11,956 --> 00:48:12,196
Speaker 3: to me.

888
00:48:12,956 --> 00:48:17,316
Speaker 4: And so I think I was. I thought, that's me, and.

889
00:48:17,356 --> 00:48:19,956
Speaker 3: Like maybe I saw and I must have saw myself.

890
00:48:20,876 --> 00:48:23,076
Speaker 3: I think I saw myself in the Sunset Girls in

891
00:48:23,116 --> 00:48:26,316
Speaker 3: the and Barbara Manning, the same way that guy and

892
00:48:26,476 --> 00:48:29,076
Speaker 3: Ball of the Last Payphone saw himself in the Last

893
00:48:29,076 --> 00:48:31,676
Speaker 3: Payphone in the Museum of the City of New York.

894
00:48:32,796 --> 00:48:33,756
Speaker 4: That's a big sentence.

895
00:48:36,996 --> 00:48:39,956
Speaker 1: That is a big sentence. Yes, do you guys want

896
00:48:39,996 --> 00:48:40,356
Speaker 1: to play.

897
00:48:40,196 --> 00:48:42,876
Speaker 4: A little Yeah, let's let's try.

898
00:48:45,076 --> 00:48:46,796
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Catherine, I didn't get over to you. I

899
00:48:46,796 --> 00:48:49,636
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about No, no, no, no, please, there's

900
00:48:49,676 --> 00:48:50,196
Speaker 1: still time.

901
00:48:50,476 --> 00:48:51,116
Speaker 6: It's all good.

902
00:48:52,876 --> 00:48:54,476
Speaker 4: We can and if we screw up, we can.

903
00:48:55,396 --> 00:49:04,276
Speaker 1: I sing what rehearsals must be like, like what why.

904
00:49:04,356 --> 00:49:06,356
Speaker 4: Why don't we do? Why don't we do? Pay?

905
00:49:06,716 --> 00:49:10,476
Speaker 3: Because we h we've been talking about it. We've got

906
00:49:10,476 --> 00:49:11,716
Speaker 3: something like a segue, right.

907
00:49:16,316 --> 00:49:19,236
Speaker 4: I say. One Tuesday before.

908
00:49:38,396 --> 00:49:43,556
Speaker 7: I had to see it with my very eyes at

909
00:49:43,596 --> 00:49:48,156
Speaker 7: the Museum of the City of New York had the

910
00:49:48,196 --> 00:49:54,196
Speaker 7: off hand brace that you will find in the last

911
00:49:54,276 --> 00:49:56,636
Speaker 7: ones left alive.

912
00:49:58,716 --> 00:50:01,156
Speaker 4: They took it from Time Square.

913
00:50:01,156 --> 00:50:08,996
Speaker 8: May little fanfare or paid respect. It first comes love,

914
00:50:10,636 --> 00:50:18,356
Speaker 8: then it must be Then it's terminal Veloss City, nothing

915
00:50:18,636 --> 00:50:19,836
Speaker 8: major mind.

916
00:50:22,996 --> 00:50:24,876
Speaker 4: It's just the last pay.

917
00:50:28,036 --> 00:50:29,876
Speaker 8: Nothing major man.

918
00:50:33,116 --> 00:50:34,996
Speaker 7: It's just the last pay.

919
00:50:48,476 --> 00:50:53,356
Speaker 4: I had to see it with my very eyes, but

920
00:50:53,556 --> 00:50:56,876
Speaker 4: some advice from the just left behind.

921
00:50:58,036 --> 00:50:59,316
Speaker 8: Reversed the charges.

922
00:51:00,916 --> 00:51:06,476
Speaker 4: I tried, but it had no lightening inside.

923
00:51:08,476 --> 00:51:13,276
Speaker 7: Did you get a good look at their face? Because

924
00:51:13,316 --> 00:51:14,796
Speaker 7: often thieves.

925
00:51:14,276 --> 00:51:19,436
Speaker 4: Are not gone very far, and they're not strangers.

926
00:51:20,396 --> 00:51:21,436
Speaker 1: They really are.

927
00:51:23,036 --> 00:51:29,956
Speaker 8: They're not strangers, they really are. Nothing made man.

928
00:51:33,036 --> 00:51:39,876
Speaker 7: It's just the last pay pham, nothing maging man.

929
00:51:42,956 --> 00:51:47,356
Speaker 8: It's just the last pay phone. Nothing made a man.

930
00:51:50,516 --> 00:51:52,036
Speaker 4: It's just the last.

931
00:51:51,836 --> 00:52:01,556
Speaker 7: Pay phone, nothing made a man. It's just the last

932
00:52:01,716 --> 00:52:10,036
Speaker 7: pay fam.

933
00:52:10,116 --> 00:52:16,516
Speaker 8: Yeah, first comes love, then comes pity. Then it's terminal

934
00:52:17,716 --> 00:52:35,236
Speaker 8: blass City. Yeah, first comes love, then comes pity. Then

935
00:52:35,316 --> 00:52:39,396
Speaker 8: it's terminal Looss City.

936
00:52:48,756 --> 00:52:50,956
Speaker 3: I like the sound of like the gears moving around

937
00:52:50,996 --> 00:52:53,156
Speaker 3: inside that thing.

938
00:52:53,596 --> 00:52:54,676
Speaker 4: It sounds like a machine.

939
00:52:55,196 --> 00:52:58,236
Speaker 1: New Pornographers, thank you so much, Carl, Catherine, thank you

940
00:52:58,276 --> 00:52:59,956
Speaker 1: for coming in. It's been just wonderful. Thank you.

941
00:53:02,756 --> 00:53:04,516
Speaker 2: In an episode description, you'll find a link to a

942
00:53:04,596 --> 00:53:07,276
Speaker 2: playlist of our favorite songs from the New Pornographers. If

943
00:53:07,276 --> 00:53:09,436
Speaker 2: you shure to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken

944
00:53:09,476 --> 00:53:12,876
Speaker 2: Record Podcast to see all our video interviews, and be

945
00:53:12,916 --> 00:53:15,556
Speaker 2: sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod.

946
00:53:15,836 --> 00:53:18,156
Speaker 2: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with

947
00:53:18,236 --> 00:53:21,436
Speaker 2: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer

948
00:53:21,596 --> 00:53:25,396
Speaker 2: is Ben Holliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries.

949
00:53:25,596 --> 00:53:28,036
Speaker 2: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider

950
00:53:28,076 --> 00:53:31,636
Speaker 2: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

951
00:53:31,716 --> 00:53:34,436
Speaker 2: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four

952
00:53:34,596 --> 00:53:36,876
Speaker 2: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple

953
00:53:36,916 --> 00:53:40,396
Speaker 2: podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember

954
00:53:40,436 --> 00:53:42,516
Speaker 2: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app.

955
00:53:42,796 --> 00:53:45,356
Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.