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Speaker 1: We're entering a stage now where people are buying bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: They don't even know they're buying it. I don't even

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Speaker 1: know that the underlying asset that's driving the performance is bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: That creates a levering within the system itself that is

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Speaker 1: kind of invisible.

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Speaker 2: You recently had tweeted that there's a few new public

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Speaker 2: companies announcing bitcoin treasuries every week.

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Speaker 3: Soon it'll be every day.

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Speaker 2: It's but how you think about like the public companies

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Speaker 2: as a bitcoin treasury versus like a strategy type company.

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Speaker 1: You meet the buyer where they are, and you sell

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Speaker 1: them bitcoin in whatever form or fashion they need to

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Speaker 1: be able to buy. Every product that sailor's spinning out

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Speaker 1: could be rebuilt and repackaged for every domestic capital market

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Speaker 1: wherever there's captured liquidity. What these products are going to

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Speaker 1: have buyers? When I think about what a bitcoin treasury

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Speaker 1: company is, in my mind, is the new form of

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Speaker 1: a bitcoin exchange. Because you're creating a vehicle for people

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Speaker 1: to get exposure to bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: What is one thing that you could say tell the

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Speaker 2: world why bitcoin matters not as a currency, but as

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Speaker 2: a revolution. You've predicted that bitcoin could hit a million

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Speaker 2: dollars during Trump's presidency, and.

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Speaker 3: That sounds insane for most people.

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Speaker 2: So what would you say that you see about bitcoin

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Speaker 2: that most people are missing.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know the million dollar price tag comes because

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Speaker 1: that's the if you comp against another asset, it's gold.

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Speaker 1: So you know, bitcoin is digital gold. Gold is the

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Speaker 1: is the comp and to be at gold bitcoin period

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Speaker 1: is a million dollars a bitcoin. I mean, gold's had

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Speaker 1: a nice runs. It started I think at at six

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars a bitcoin, but after this

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Speaker 1: gold run, now it's a million of bitcoin. You know.

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Speaker 1: I think bitcoin's better than gold in every possible from

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Speaker 1: every possible metric. I mean, it's more scarce, it's more divisible,

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Speaker 1: it can be transported over the internet, it has you know,

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Speaker 1: no security costs. You know, it's better in every way,

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Speaker 1: and so it should be like, I think a million

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Speaker 1: dollars is the floor value of bitcoin when you think

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Speaker 1: about it purely from a fundamental perspective, and you know,

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Speaker 1: adding the element of I think it can happen in

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Speaker 1: the next four years. You know, I could very easily

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Speaker 1: see it not happening the next four years. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying that's like the the most likely outcome. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I see a series of factors that have

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Speaker 1: built up that have created like a you know, a

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Speaker 1: slow motion avalanche that's happening. And I think that as

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Speaker 1: the year goes on, this is going to pick up

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Speaker 1: speed and you know where it stops. You know, I

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Speaker 1: think there's enough buyers in the market, and enough buyers

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Speaker 1: that are watching the market that have deep enough liquidity

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Speaker 1: and size that they could take this thing all the

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Speaker 1: way to a million bucks. And and you know, when

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Speaker 1: you start looking at sovereign spying bitcoin, which is happening

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Speaker 1: already right now, and you throw in, okay, a couple

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Speaker 1: of g twenty countries doing it, the price can just

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Speaker 1: can just run really really quickly. And so I think

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Speaker 1: it is it is very much within the possibility that

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Speaker 1: with the next four years we see gold bitcoin parody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree at Bitcoin Meana in December, I gave

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Speaker 2: the closing keynote there and broke down where I think

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Speaker 2: it's in twenty thirty, twenty forty, and twenty fifty, using

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Speaker 2: sort of basically inflation debasement and sort of math on

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Speaker 2: how it takes from gold and other assets. And so

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Speaker 2: certainly there's an easy, easy case, a very conservative case

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, that we get there.

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Speaker 3: And I saw, I'm sure you did.

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Speaker 2: Kathy wood Arc put out maybe now two point five

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Speaker 2: million in play for twenty thirty, so I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you saw that was a couple of days ago,

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Speaker 2: a couple of days ago.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I'm still I'm still the old guard

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Speaker 1: that believes in like the four year cycle, and I

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Speaker 1: see the four year cycle changing, so I'm I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that it's an exact four years, but like, I

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Speaker 1: still believe in the cycles of bitcoin, you know, the

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Speaker 1: the you know, I feel like you need the bear

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Speaker 1: markets with the bull markets. There's that there's a relationship

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Speaker 1: between the two, and you don't want to just have

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Speaker 1: like too long of a period where nothing like kind

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Speaker 1: of let's say it's like a fire cleaning out like

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Speaker 1: brush from a forest. Do you want that? Yeah, But

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Speaker 1: I definitely see this cycle lasting longer. I think the

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Speaker 1: buyers that are coming in are much more sophisticated. I

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Speaker 1: think that they deploy capital in a different way than

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Speaker 1: than what how retail deploys it. And I think that like, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think if we get to a million bucks, there's

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Speaker 1: no reason we can't go well beyond a million bucks. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The bigger question to me is kind of like, what's

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Speaker 1: the threshold that we cross where bitcoin becomes too big

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Speaker 1: to fail? Where you know, a crash of bitcoin actually

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Speaker 1: would result in a financial systemic financial issue for the

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Speaker 1: for the global markets, and at that point in time,

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Speaker 1: then there's only one direction for bitcoin to go, Like,

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Speaker 1: once we become too big to fail, there's only up

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Speaker 1: into the right. And so I feel like we're we

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Speaker 1: approach that point. You know, at a million bucks, you're

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Speaker 1: talking about bitcoin being worth basically us GDP, So you know,

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Speaker 1: at two million bucks you can't just lose a us

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Speaker 1: GDP and and the global economy be okay. You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's where you sort of think that level

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Speaker 2: is at a at a million bucks twenty one train

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Speaker 2: market cap is sort of that escape velocity too big

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Speaker 2: to fail sort of moment or.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it could be low more

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Speaker 1: than that. I think it could be lower than that,

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Speaker 1: But you know, at that, at that level or somewhere

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Speaker 1: near that, it starts to get damn close. I mean

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Speaker 1: you're talking I think like commercial real estate is like

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Speaker 1: thirty trillion. So yeah, twenty one trillion dollar dollar mark

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Speaker 1: cap is pretty pretty serious asset.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it also depends on how much Wall Street

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Speaker 2: is allocated to it, maybe how levered up they are

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Speaker 2: against it, because you know, we've seen maybe just recently

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Speaker 2: in the last couple of weeks where sort of some

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Speaker 2: of these hedge funds we're sort of leaning on the

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Speaker 2: Trumpe administration like hey, like you got to help us

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Speaker 2: out here. We're getting like unwound. And so maybe it's

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Speaker 2: not even a trillion, Maybe it's just some of the

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Speaker 2: black rock et cetera. They are setting up some of

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Speaker 2: these funds. Maybe it gets so over levered.

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Speaker 1: But and even if it's not the funds that get levered,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're entering a stage now where people are

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Speaker 1: buying bitcoin they don't even know they're buying it, which

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Speaker 1: is a very interesting phenomenon. I think it's it's exciting,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's a you know, depressingly like probably

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Speaker 1: how this plays out because most people just don't care,

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Speaker 1: but you know, people are. You know, if you own

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Speaker 1: have a retirement account and your your retirement account is

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Speaker 1: buying you know, the biggest indexes in the world let's

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Speaker 1: say it's buying Nasdaq one hundred. Now you are a

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Speaker 1: shareholder of micro Strategy without even without even knowing, and

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Speaker 1: you know, my micro strategy is using you know, your

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Speaker 1: your shareholder equity to buy bitcoin, so you have exposure,

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Speaker 1: and so you're gonna get a statement when micro Strategy

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Speaker 1: hundred x's you're gonna get a statement. It's like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 1: you're my IRA is performing really well, like my pension

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Speaker 1: fund is booming, and so I'm gonna go out. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna spend more money. I might go get a beach house,

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Speaker 1: I might go get a mortgage. You know, I I

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Speaker 1: do change my behavior because I'm looking at how well

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Speaker 1: I'm performing. I don't even know that the underlying asset

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Speaker 1: that's driving the performance is bitcoin. Yeah, and so that's

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Speaker 1: that creates a levering within the system itself that is

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Speaker 1: kind of invisible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And we've seen Larry Fink from Black Rocks say that

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Speaker 2: they're gonna start recommending to like all their advisor networks

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Speaker 2: to start allocating to it. So then all those people

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Speaker 2: that use advisors will be allocated into it as well,

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Speaker 2: and they won't even know it. We're sort of at

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Speaker 2: that point in that game theory competitive land where the

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Speaker 2: advisors are going to have to do that if they

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Speaker 2: want to remain competitive.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and and and I think they've already rolled

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Speaker 1: it out in their in their modern portfolio product. I

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Speaker 1: mean the uh yeah, I mean I I agree. Like

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Speaker 1: I feel like the the the things that need to

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Speaker 1: happen to make this outcome occur have already happened. Like

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Speaker 1: what now is just like the gravitational momentum of this

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Speaker 1: avalanche building as it goes down the mountain. But like

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Speaker 1: the I feel like it, there's there's no doubt that

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Speaker 1: it makes it to the bottom of the mountain. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, so.

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Speaker 2: Tell me, tell me let's go back to the four

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Speaker 2: year cycle, because that's something that gets talked about quite often.

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Speaker 2: I remember last cycle when sailors saying all your models

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Speaker 2: were broken, and then of course then.

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Speaker 3: The cycle came and hit.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: But I think to the point that you're making with

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Speaker 2: all the institutional adoptions, specifically a lot of the the

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Speaker 2: ETFs and whatnot, a lot of that bitcoin goes into

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Speaker 2: deep dark cold storage, right, and they're not really cyclical buyers.

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Speaker 2: Is that kind of what you're thinking, I mean, do

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Speaker 2: you do you think do you think the volatility just

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Speaker 2: dampens down or maybe the four year cycle sort of

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Speaker 2: ends and we started to just kind of ramp right

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Speaker 2: through it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question, and I don't know, like

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Speaker 1: and I and I think it's definitely interesting that we

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Speaker 1: are in you know, uh, you know, it's nice when

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Speaker 1: our when our preconceived notions of bitcoin are challenged. And

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Speaker 1: so we had a lot of cycles that looked exactly

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Speaker 1: like each other, and you start getting kind of too

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Speaker 1: locked into a certain perspective and now like, okay, this

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Speaker 1: the cycle is playing out differently, without a doubt, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of just the the the buyers

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Speaker 1: are different. You know, I think there's two phenomenon that

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Speaker 1: are happening. One is, you know, if you're going to

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Speaker 1: go buy unless you're sailor if you're going to go

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Speaker 1: buy a few billion dollars a bitcoin or one hundred

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Speaker 1: billion dollars a bitcoin, you're going to implement an acquisition

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Speaker 1: program that takes place over time, and you're going to

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Speaker 1: be basically dcing effectively at a really big level over

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Speaker 1: a long period of time. And so I think like

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Speaker 1: that that makes liquidity flow into the system in a

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Speaker 1: in a much more progrect like slow and intentional way

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Speaker 1: rather than just like you're yoloing in two. I think

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Speaker 1: like there's a bigger and bigger amount of of bitcoin

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Speaker 1: that is being owned by UH indexes, mutual funds, you know,

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Speaker 1: general strategies that are market cap weighted, and they're going

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Speaker 1: to be rebalancing their portfolios regularly. And so you're going

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Speaker 1: to have a rebalancing effect as you see outperformance from

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Speaker 1: from bitcoin both two bitcoin's benefit and also against bitcoin

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Speaker 1: as is, people rotate out. And so I think that

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Speaker 1: that rebalancing is going to have a a a healthy

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Speaker 1: kind of moderating effect in terms of the rate of change.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know.

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Speaker 1: In terms of like does the volatility come down or not.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting, like, you know, I see so

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Speaker 1: many products being created that are these like income based

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Speaker 1: products where effectively, like you're shorting volatility and that like

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Speaker 1: that where the income is being drived from and you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, running a covered call strategy or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and and and like uh that that and of itself

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Speaker 1: will dampen volatility until it doesn't and then it'll amplify volatility.

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Speaker 3: Like you know, something.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's like uh uh exactly, you're just

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Speaker 1: like moving the the the tail fat tail events like

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Speaker 1: further out into the tail, but they still happen. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we're really like, uh, reducing volatility

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Speaker 1: over the long term, or if we're just like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh trading less volatility today for more volatility tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would probably say less volatility, right because as

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Speaker 2: the ASCID gets bigger, a one trillion dollar asset is

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Speaker 2: much harder to move than five hundred and a half

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Speaker 2: half a trillion, and and and so forth. And so

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Speaker 2: then you mentioned some of these big like allocators who

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Speaker 2: are like rebalancing, so they're selling at the top rebalancing.

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Speaker 3: Which then tampers the upside. But then but then they're buying,

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Speaker 3: but then they're.

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Speaker 2: Buying through the dip, which then keeps the you know,

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Speaker 2: the bottom from falling out, And so that volatility just

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Speaker 2: starts shrinking probably over time.

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Speaker 1: No I I and I agree with that, But you know,

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Speaker 1: what you also have is this phenomenon of of bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: bitcoin securitization and and bitcoin backed you know, companies effectively

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Speaker 1: buying bitcoin and not selling it, right, and and you know,

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Speaker 1: if you look at that category, it's it's dominated by

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Speaker 1: by micro strategy. But if you look at that category,

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Speaker 1: it's like seven hundred and fifty thousand bitcoins or something

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Speaker 1: like that are owned by bitcoin treasury companies. You know,

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Speaker 1: like project that number forward. Like if you if you

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Speaker 1: increase the number of bitcoin treasury companies and you increase

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Speaker 1: their time in market, and you increase let's say, their

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Speaker 1: ability to uh find additional financing or dilution events because

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Speaker 1: the price of bitcoin is going up and that's like

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Speaker 1: driving liquidity into these these instruments, then they're going to

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Speaker 1: be able to continue to grow an ever increasing rate

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Speaker 1: the amount of bitcoin held by those types of vehicles.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, if seven hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: bitcoins becomes three million bitcoins or four million bitcoins, like

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Speaker 1: it's going to cause a massive supply shock, and it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: how do you get the bitcoin out of those companies

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Speaker 1: once it goes in? And so ultimately, like if if

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Speaker 1: the sailors of the world can accumulate too much bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't matter if people are rebalancing or not.

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Speaker 1: There's there's just going to be a massive squeeze on

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Speaker 1: the market, and and until those those businesses, until Sailors

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Speaker 1: will sell some bitcoin like it, you know, there's no

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Speaker 1: solution for it. I mean it's absolute scarce to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And typically you think about price elasticity and there's

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Speaker 2: always enough you know, whatever asset to go around at

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Speaker 2: the right price. But someone like Sailor probably at no

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Speaker 2: price he's selling, and so maybe some of that price

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Speaker 2: elasticity doesn't actually work out in some of these some

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Speaker 2: of these hands.

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Speaker 3: I'm curious how you think about it.

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Speaker 2: You recently had tweeted that you there's a few new

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Speaker 2: public companies announcing bitcoin treasuries every week.

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Speaker 3: Soon it'll be every.

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Speaker 2: Day a thousand cash flowing and capital raising public equities

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Speaker 2: listed in every market, including in every index, repackaging and

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Speaker 2: every wrapper, et cetera, et cetera, every single day. I'm

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Speaker 2: curious how you think about And I know Bitcoin magazine

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Speaker 2: Pro now has like a tracker where you're tracking like publicly.

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Speaker 3: Traded companies that have a bitcoin treasury.

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Speaker 2: But how you think about like the public companies, is

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Speaker 2: the bitcoin treasury versus like a strategy type company.

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Speaker 3: Because the way I think about it is like if

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Speaker 3: you're just like putting part of my treasury on bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: So what like Apple sitting on billions of dollars, Like,

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Speaker 2: what do they have that billions of dollars in?

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Speaker 3: Do I really care?

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Speaker 2: Does it really affect what their market cap is? And

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Speaker 2: so if they decide to put some of that into bitcoin,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's great for bitcoin in a sense where

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Speaker 2: it's you know, buying it up, But does it really

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Speaker 2: affect Apple? So you know, obviously micro strategy is creating

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Speaker 2: financial products out of that, but if Apple does, does

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Speaker 2: it really And I guess so that's what I'm thinking

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Speaker 2: when it's just a treasury company or is it like

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Speaker 2: a treasury strategy for the stock?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think you know, what sailor is doing

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Speaker 1: is monetizing volatility, and so you want max volatility, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think for somebody like Apple, where they

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Speaker 1: have an underlying business that has a massive enterprise value,

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Speaker 1: that's going to mute the volatility of the stock because

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Speaker 1: the business is going to be disconnected from the performance

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Speaker 1: of the balance sheet. And so you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it would work as well for a company like Apple,

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Speaker 1: But you know, at the end of the day, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the in the uh long term, view of the

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Speaker 1: terminal value of bitcoin. Bitcoin as the reserve asset of

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Speaker 1: the world. One bitcoin is you know, one twenty one

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Speaker 1: millionth of of all the world of all. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it's you know, like you know, I think apples it

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Speaker 1: would be very wise to lock down a couple of

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Speaker 1: percentage points of the supply, you know, with their big

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Speaker 1: with their bitcoin, But I don't I don't think it

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Speaker 1: will have the same effect as it does for for Sailor.

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Speaker 1: Sailor is uh, I mean, Sailor is a genius, and

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm really interested in seeing like what instruments

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Speaker 1: he creates next, and you know, strike and strife. I

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Speaker 1: mean I was looking up what other you know, str uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, four letter acronyms that he can create, and

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Speaker 1: there's quite a few actually, so I already I can

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Speaker 1: already predict like a couple that might be coming.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I think you know what he's doing is

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Speaker 1: is really introducing new levers to create volatility and to

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Speaker 1: tap different different parts of his his cap stack with

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Speaker 1: different types of buyers. And like, I think the big

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Speaker 1: picture thing that's at Sailor has taught me, which is

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Speaker 1: you know, so obvious in retrospect is like like you

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Speaker 1: meet the buyer where they are and you sell them

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin and whatever form or fashion they need to be able.

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Speaker 3: To buy boom, which is like, yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's like sales one on one, like you know,

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Speaker 1: like sales one on one. So he's really pioneered this,

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Speaker 1: and I think he this has so many layers to it.

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Speaker 1: He can go so much deeper, and he's really pioneering

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Speaker 1: the way. The way I'm approaching these things is much

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Speaker 1: more sixty IQ. I'm you know, I don't have the

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Speaker 1: strategist mind of Sailor or the brilliance of Sailors. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm just taking the easiest structures to replicate,

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Speaker 1: and I'm spreading them horizontally into other markets rather than

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Speaker 1: doing you know, basically scaling vertically into other instruments. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, I think like this there's just massive

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Speaker 1: expansion of this of this terrain, Like you know, strife

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Speaker 1: and strike could be recreated for every other international market

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Speaker 1: as well, Like every product that Sailor's spinning out could

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Speaker 1: be rebuilt and repackaged for every domestic capital market wherever

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Speaker 1: there's captured liquidity. What these products are going to have buyers.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So that's what I was trying to understand.

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Speaker 2: So when you say, you know, when you talk about

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Speaker 2: all these public companies and announcing bitcoin treasury programs, it's

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Speaker 2: not the apples of the world that have a bunch

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Speaker 2: of big treasury and they're allocating some to bitcoin. It's

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Speaker 2: other companies that are actually bringing some bitcoin products to market,

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Speaker 2: but not maybe in so much in the US markets

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Speaker 2: because maybe a lot of that's already sort of taken.

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Speaker 2: But how do we launch that in Japan or India

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Speaker 2: or Brazil or something like that.

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Speaker 3: Is that kind of maybe more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was really combining the two. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I see both of them as complimentary to each other,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I think they are fundamentally different. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think that there is room, though in the US,

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Speaker 1: for there to be multiple micro strategies. I think even

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Speaker 1: Sailor says, you know, there's there's ten companies that are

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Speaker 1: going to be trillion dollar companies, and you know, there's

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Speaker 1: one hundred companies that are going to be one hundred

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Speaker 1: billion dollar companies, and there's a thousand that are going

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Speaker 1: to be ten billion, and you know, so on and

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Speaker 1: so forth. And you know, when I look at when

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Speaker 1: I think about what a bitcoin treasury company is, in

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Speaker 1: my mind, it's it's the it's the new form of

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Speaker 1: a of a of a bitcoin exchange, you know, like

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Speaker 1: that's effectively what you're what you're doing, is you're creating

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Speaker 1: a vehicle for people to get exposure to bitcoin. And

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Speaker 1: rather than having a connect your bank account and go

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Speaker 1: through KYC and you know, blah blah blah blah blah

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Speaker 1: fund your account, instead like you just take a brokerage

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Speaker 1: account and you go buy this instrument and boom, now

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Speaker 1: you have exposure to bitcoin. And you know, so, like

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Speaker 1: how many bitcoin exchanges can the United States support?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: More than one?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You know, like every one of these businesses they have

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Speaker 1: their own network to go to, their own customer base,

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Speaker 1: their own way to market the product that they're Like,

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Speaker 1: each of these is going to have their incremental differences,

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Speaker 1: and so I think there's space for many players to compete,

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Speaker 1: and I think competition is really healthy and all of

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Speaker 1: them win together by you know, any of them succeeding.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, that's the good thing about wealth. It's not

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Speaker 3: a zero some game. Right.

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Speaker 2: The more wealth that's created, the more wealth we have,

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Speaker 2: And I guess if you think about sort of like

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Speaker 2: sailor already creating three different products off of it, I mean,

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Speaker 2: then you just extrapolate that. I mean, there's potentially infinite

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Speaker 2: amount of products that could be created with more creative.

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Speaker 3: Correct kind of like that correct.

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Speaker 1: It's like I mean, it's it's it's a new asset class,

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Speaker 1: and it's like it will balloon in size, and every

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Speaker 1: new innovative product that's created, you're gonna have one hundred

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Speaker 1: investment bankers figuring out how to clone the product and

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Speaker 1: repackage it and sell it into different market Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: so like this is gonna be a gold rush of

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Speaker 1: just securitization of new instruments and and and accessing new markets.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One thing I took away when I left the Abu

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Speaker 2: Dhabi event Bitcoin Mina, was like Bitcoin's coming for every

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Speaker 2: area of finance, just completely every area of finance. And

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Speaker 2: I used to be in creative financing. I had my

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Speaker 2: finance learner's license here in California and we did like

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Speaker 2: invoice factoring and per sort of financing and first trusteed,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. And all of a sudden, my creative financing

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Speaker 2: mind started thinking about all these different financial products, lending

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Speaker 2: products mostly that bitcoin can slip into, and I know

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Speaker 2: there's several that are already underway and some I'm working

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Speaker 2: on as well. And so I mean it's really infinite,

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Speaker 2: right as far as the mind can imagine these things,

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Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, we just have more idea, more and

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Speaker 2: more more ways.

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Speaker 1: We're cannibalizing the capital markets and we we are, we are.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is how bigcoin takes over. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is the thing, like, this is how it takes over.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's not that we overnight shut down

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Speaker 1: and cast out the institutions that rule the world today.

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Speaker 1: It's that we force the institutions to engage in this

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Speaker 1: new economy, this new market. And if they don't, then

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Speaker 1: then then we will and it'll be it'll be forced

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Speaker 1: upon them. And so you know, it's it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's very interesting to watch. It's very interesting to watch.

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Speaker 1: It's exciting.

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Speaker 3: Oh it's super exciting. What a time to be alive.

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Speaker 2: And we're we're literally alive for history you made, you know,

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Speaker 2: And as someone who makes a lot of content, and

435
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 2: I love to reference history because it's so insightful for us.

436
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 2: And there's these big dates, the nineteen forty four Breton

437
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 2: Woods Agreement, you know, nineteen thirteen and nineteen forty four

438
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 2: Applausa cord in nineteen eighty five, seventy one mix and

439
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 2: off the gold stands like these key dates, and I

440
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 2: feel like we're like in one of those dates right now, right, Yeah, No.

441
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like the the ultimate story that's

442
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,880
Speaker 1: playing out here is like have you seen this this

443
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 1: I'm blanking on the guy's name, Luke, Luke Grohman. I

444
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 1: think it's Luke Groman, Yeah, Luca and the Triffan's Dilimma.

445
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,479
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a meme that's just like gaining

446
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 1: mind share. And you know, I have yet to hear

447
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 1: someone from the let's say, prevailing geopolitical order explained to

448
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,479
Speaker 1: me like like the solution to that dilemma. And you know,

449
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 1: really the in state of it is like we need

450
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 1: the dollar to free float against a neutral asset, Like

451
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: that's that's the end state of that. And so that's

452
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: how we solve this this trade deficit issue. That's how

453
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 1: we solve for you know, the industrialization of our economy,

454
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 1: that's how we solve the megabig problems that have to

455
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 1: get resolved. And you know, when we get to that state,

456
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: then it's like okay. Now bitcoin is the most widely accepted,

457
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: most liquid instrument in the world, and it is the

458
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: neutral asset that every currency will float against. And like now,

459
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,439
Speaker 1: bitcoin underpins the entire global financial and monetary system.

460
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, a small business owner, are you buried in all

461
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 2: types of work keeping you from the real thing that

462
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 2: makes you money? Well that's where just Works comes in.

463
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,719
Speaker 2: They're the all in one platform that supports small business growth.

464
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 3: You can get all.

465
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: Their tools that help with benefits like payroll and HR

466
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 2: and compliance with transparent pricing. Now they help you hire

467
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 2: top talent internationally, internew markets, quickly scale international operations without

468
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: the workload, and for every how do I do it? Question?

469
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: You can reach out to their expert staff from sole

470
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 2: proprietor or a team of twenty. Just Works empowers all

471
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 2: kinds of small businesses with real human support. So visit

472
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 2: justfors dot com slash podcast to join the thousands of

473
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 2: small businesses that trust Just Works to take care of payroll, benefits,

474
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 2: compliance and more. Again, that's Justworks dot com slash podcast.

475
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: I can tell you one with certainty that the Triven's

476
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: dilemma and that that worldview on on Basically, the burden

477
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: of carrying dollar reserve status is something that our military

478
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: industrial complex, our defense complex is becoming ever more aware of.

479
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: And you know, like at the end of the day,

480
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: like the United States military is like, you know, the

481
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: hollowing out of America's industrial base directly affects their ability

482
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: to fight wars and defend the country. And like, uh,

483
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, like the institutions I guess that in the

484
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: United States that can actually push for this kind of

485
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: change to occur are acutely aware of what's going on.

486
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, for sure the military understands the implications

487
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 2: of all this. I want to take it to the

488
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 2: next level here. So sort of in this fifty year

489
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 2: cycle thesis that I use that I use in talks,

490
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 2: and I talk about how there's these different stages. So

491
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: each fifty year cycle throughout the last three hundred years,

492
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: financial revolutions and financial capitals sort of follow this predictable pattern.

493
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 2: And stage one is sort of like this eruption and

494
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 2: that sort of represents like retail, which was sort of

495
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: like this explosion of bitcoin and alt coins. And then

496
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 2: phase two goes into what's called the frenzy phase, which

497
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: is more sovereign institutions and sovereigns. And so we just

498
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: talked about the institutions and you're, you know, you're saying

499
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 2: thousands of public companies will be coming in with these

500
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 2: bitcoin treasury plays.

501
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: But I want to jump to the sovereign level.

502
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 2: And first I want to hear your story, because from

503
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: the world looking from the outside in, like you seem

504
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 2: to be the one that went and got Trump and

505
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: like pulled him into the entire market, got to speak

506
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: at the conference, all of that right around the time

507
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 2: he was getting his ear shot off and all those

508
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 2: other things, like give us a story on that.

509
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: Oh man, it's a long and it's the longest.

510
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 3: Even start, Like where did it even start?

511
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: It started, uh in Puerto Rico late night on like

512
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,959
Speaker 1: a Saturday night, sitting around shooting the shit with a

513
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: friend of mine, Tracy, and a couple of our other friends.

514
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: And it started with like, you know, if we could

515
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: just get in front of Trump, like we could pitch

516
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: Trump on bitcoin and get him to like bitcoin. We

517
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: can get him into bitcoin. And then my friend Tracy

518
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: is like, well, I know someone who might be able

519
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: to like get us infront of them, and they're like

520
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: no way, and she's like, yeah, like my sister's godfather

521
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: is Paul Manafort, and Paul Manafort was the campaign chair

522
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: for Trump in the last election and in the twenty

523
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: sixteen election. Maybe he can help us. And so that's

524
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: how it started. And then like it started with you know,

525
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: a phone call to get past Paul's like sniff test,

526
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: and then you know, it was very clear that that

527
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: the Trump team and Trump orbit, you know, had not

528
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: dived deeply into this issue, like they had a service

529
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 1: level understanding, which is very understandable, but like it's just

530
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: like they hadn't dived into the into detail. And so

531
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: then began like began like a back and forth of

532
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: like like, you know, these are all the reasons why

533
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 1: it won't work or we can't like you know, why

534
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 1: we're not doing it now or whatever, and then us

535
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: coming back with like an answer to each one of

536
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,959
Speaker 1: those issues and why it's actually not an issue or

537
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 1: et cetera. And so like back and forth, back and forth,

538
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: back and forth. Every couple of days were like flipping

539
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: something new to them, and then eventually it was like okay, well,

540
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 1: so if this could work, what would it what would

541
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: it look like? And so, uh, we assembled like a

542
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: brain trust of people from the industry. This is an

543
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: effort that to actually a lot of people were involved in,

544
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: but we assembled it like a brain trust and we

545
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: kind of tried to like brainstorm ideas of what's like

546
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: an America First agenda and platform that like bitcoin is

547
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: is coherent with and like and authentic to and so

548
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: like then we went back with like, Okay, these are

549
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: all these different ideas of things that we think like

550
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: could work with your platform and and you know that

551
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: the president would like that Trump would like and they

552
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: liked it, and and it you know, actually bitcoin is

553
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: does fit really well within the America First political platform.

554
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: And so you know, I think Trump energy independence really

555
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: resonated with Trump and and energy abundance. I think, you know,

556
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: Trump was the victim of you know, the political politicization

557
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: politicis I can't say that word politicization of our financial

558
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: system and banking system, and so you know, he was

559
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: a victim of money being sees, bank accounts being shut

560
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: and so I think it really resonated with him to

561
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: that that's wrong, that that there needs to be people

562
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: need to have tools to protect themselves from a captured

563
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: financial institutions. And you know, I like, as we kind

564
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: of developed this platform, then like only when it got

565
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: to like the really well developed the Trump way in

566
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: and I think like the key point for him was

567
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: like he came back with the question, is like all right,

568
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: like this is all great, but you know, I like

569
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: the dollar. I'm a fan of the US dollar, and

570
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: every bitcoinner I know tells me that Bitcoin's going to

571
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: destroy the dollar, like like what am I missing here?

572
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: And so our response to that was, you know, the

573
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: United States, building Fort Knox and storing the world's gold

574
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: in the United States did not undermine the power of

575
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: the US dollar. If anything, it enshrined the power and

576
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: value of the US dollar and made the dollar what

577
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: it is today, the reserve currency of the world. And

578
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: that if you want the dollar to remain the reserve

579
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: currency of the world, then we have to have a

580
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: digital Fort Knox, and we need to store the digital gold.

581
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: And that's how we keep the dollar relevant for hundreds

582
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: of years to come. And like then it was like okay,

583
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: I'm interested, and let's meet. And so we went up

584
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: to Trump Tower and and made the case in person.

585
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: And you know, the president is is is a brilliant guy.

586
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: He really is an extraordinary person. And you know, he

587
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: has an intuitive sense of opportunity. I mean, he's he's

588
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: he's an entrepreneur, and you know, he he has many

589
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: people around him that like bitcoin. His his kids like bitcoin.

590
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: You know, there's lots of libertarians that like bitcoin, that

591
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: are that are in some of those circles, and so

592
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 1: you know, he he saw this as a vehicle where

593
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: like bitcoin is like the new dal Jones of the

594
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: youngest generation of the young people, and so like to

595
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: integrate this into his platform was also to integrate and

596
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: bring along, you know, the youth in his platform. And

597
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: then as he went out into the market and started

598
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: talking about bitcoin, and he said he had a campaign

599
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: rally where he talked about like we want one hundred

600
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: percent of the bitcoin made in America. Yeah, you know,

601
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: like like the reaction that he got, he picks up

602
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: on that reaction. And so when he's talking to a

603
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: bunch of people and in the course of a day,

604
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: a lot of them mentioned, hey, I saw what you

605
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: said about bitcoin or crypto, or like my kid told

606
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: me about what you said. YadA, YadA. He has an

607
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: intuitive sense of like picking up on that and like

608
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: doubling down on it. And so it was a very

609
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: interesting process of seeing him like this, this like give

610
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: and take process of him like taking a step forward

611
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: and then the market reacting in a positive way and

612
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: then him kind of taking another step forward. And yeah,

613
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: it was it was really quite like quite quite the

614
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: roller coast. I mean, there's way more detail of things

615
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: that happened along the way I can go into, but

616
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: ultimately it culminated with him giving a speech at Nashville,

617
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: and uh, that speech was a very i mean a

618
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: true a historic historic speech and uh, you know, from

619
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: like from when he gave that speech, he left the

620
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: conference and he like he walked into the conference and

621
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: it was very much like nervous of how the crowd

622
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: would respond to him. He had just done the Libertarian convention,

623
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: which was not a nice audience at all, and you

624
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: know there was people doing and stuff classic libertarians. Yeah,

625
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: but like he was he was a little bit you know,

626
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,959
Speaker 1: had some anxiety. And then when he got the reaction

627
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: that he got he left, he was like, dude, these

628
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,719
Speaker 1: people love me. I love this. I love you know,

629
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: like this is like, you know, I've been on this

630
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: and so you know, it's been his words a love

631
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: fest ever since. And you know, I think in terms

632
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: of like what he's delivered as president in his first

633
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: hundred days, which I think just happened maybe today or

634
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: this week, he's delivered on almost everything he said he

635
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,479
Speaker 1: would deliver on. Like there's a few things that are

636
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: still in flight and process, but you know, everything from

637
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: you know Sabe uh, freeing Ross Olbrigg, you know, uh,

638
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: ending the broker rules that the IRS put in place.

639
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 3: Uh, you know, firing Gensler.

640
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: I Gary Ginsler. He took care of that one before

641
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: he even got into into office, you know, putting in

642
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: place a bitcoin friendly cabinet, uh, completely changing the SEC's attitude,

643
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: rolling back the litigation against all of the American bitcoin firms,

644
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: signing into signing an executive order to establish a strategic

645
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: bitcoin reserve. I mean, like, dude, like just one of

646
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: these would have been incredible, and he's He's delivered, and

647
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: so you know, I I at this point in time,

648
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: I feel a deep, an immense amount of respect and

649
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: gratitude for what he's done. And you know now I

650
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: feel like, uh, regardless of how terrorist worked out good

651
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: or bad whatever. I'm writer died Trump because he's delivered

652
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: for us and and you know, he delivered for Ross,

653
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: and I like a lot of people were like, he's

654
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: not deliver for Roster. There's no ways going to do

655
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: it once he gets elected, you know. And then every

656
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: hour that take by when he was elected, because he

657
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: said he'd do a day one, people are like, yeah,

658
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: it's been three hours, he hasn't been out. And then

659
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: first first twenty six hours he got it done. So

660
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: really it was a lot of work, but it was

661
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: an incredible thing to be a part of, and it

662
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: was worth every dollar and every ounce of sweat.

663
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 3: Amazing story. Thanks for telling us that.

664
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: I love how you talked about It's what you said earlier,

665
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: like meeting people where they are, So you sort of

666
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: understood what was important to Trump and then you fed

667
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: him those things along the way and let him sort

668
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: of discover and take more. And one thing I get

669
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 2: asked all the time, and I'm sure you've heard ten

670
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: thousand times or more ten million times, is like, you know,

671
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 2: how do we orange fill people? And it's like, well,

672
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: it's that you find out where they are. What's the

673
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: one thing that they're concerned with, and then how do

674
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 2: we match that one benefit and then let them take

675
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: on more.

676
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I mean that's you know, it's not

677
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: that complicated. People make it so much more complicated than that.

678
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: It's like you don't have to like fit into like

679
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: an army uniform and put on like an orange suit

680
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: and go out there and like believe in all the doctrine.

681
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, what are the things that matter

682
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: to you, What are the problems that you have in

683
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: your life? How does bitcoin affect those things? Why is

684
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: it better for you if the bitcoin vision plays out?

685
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: That's how you bring people along.

686
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious what you think. I mean, I agree

687
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 2: and love all that stuff, But I'm curious because there's

688
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 2: plenty of people that have been saying online on Twitter

689
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 2: on x you know, oh yeah, sucking up to the

690
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 2: central banks to buy your coin. Oh yeah, the government

691
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 2: to buy your coin kind of thing, and that someone

692
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: like you who's been in it, you know since the

693
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: early early early days, the early stipherpunk days. I mean,

694
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 2: how's your view on that.

695
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: So we're not sucking up to anyone, like we're we're

696
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: not begging them for the position that we have, Like

697
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: we've taken the position that we have through sheer will

698
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: and entrepreneurship and building bitcoin into an asset that got

699
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,479
Speaker 1: so big that they're they have to reckon with us.

700
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: You know, So like this is not a ah. Bitcoin

701
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 1: has not changed one ounce. The technology has not changed

702
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: one line of code, has not changed since before Trump

703
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: liked bitcoin to after Trump liked bitcoin. And you know,

704
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: like the the the inevitability of bitcoin is such that

705
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, eventually every government on the planet is gonna

706
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: have to hold bitcoin, every central bank on the plane

707
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: is gonna have to hold bitcoin, Every financial institution is

708
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: gonna have to support bitcoin, and if they don't, they're

709
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna go bye bye. So like that's that's

710
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: that's not us losing and succumbing to the system. That's

711
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: us eating the system and the system having to become

712
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: part of part of our system. So you know, I, I,

713
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, I understand that it's weird to be used

714
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: to occupying Wall Street and now you know, instead of

715
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: occupying Wall Street in front of the building, we're occupying

716
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, the building. Yeah, but like this is the

717
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: process of us eating the world and eventually bitcoiners are

718
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: going to become the people in the institutions that have

719
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: to build the society we want to see. We can't

720
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: just complain about the society as it is. We actually

721
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: have to go and create the alternative system. And like

722
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 1: that's what we're doing.

723
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was always going to be that way.

724
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 2: I mean, how do you take over the world without

725
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: getting to every highest office there is? Right, But I

726
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: love what you said. It wasn't like, you know, Bitcoin

727
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 2: became O fact compliant or something like that in order

728
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: for Trump to endorse it, Like he just took it

729
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: as it was.

730
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 3: And I think that's a super key piece there. So

731
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,439
Speaker 3: let's talk about game theory.

732
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: He did take it, like he didn't just take it

733
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: because it was like him being charitable. He took it

734
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: because it was it was the right move to make,

735
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: because we earned it. Like there are there's one hundred

736
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: million of US in America, seventy million of US in

737
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: America that own this asset. It's a multi trillion dollar asset.

738
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: If those things were not true, it wouldn't have happened.

739
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: So it's like we we earned the seat at the table,

740
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: and then he wants to play ball with us as

741
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: as a peer, you know, as a movement because of

742
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: the power that we've been able to build and wield effectively.

743
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: Any respects that, and so yeah, I mean it's it's

744
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: it's nothing was given to Bitcoin, you know, like we

745
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: everything that Bitcoin has, Bitcoin Bitcoin had to earn.

746
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, So jumping into the game theory piece, because like

747
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 2: we saw, you know, El Salvador come along, a sovereign

748
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: nation come along to Bitcoin a few years ago, but

749
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 2: they're not like a really big influential nation, you know,

750
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: if you will, right, But now we have the leader

751
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 2: of the free world, you know, the US dollar, the

752
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 2: United States government, et cetera, openly embracing it, and not

753
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: just that like Trump publicly declaring that, you know, the

754
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 2: US should be a strategic Bitcoin will reserve, but a superpower,

755
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 2: if you will.

756
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 3: And so I'm curious in the talks that you've.

757
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 2: Had how that influence starts to play out in game theory.

758
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: And I saw, you know, before we started recording, I

759
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: mentioned that I you know, in Abu Dhabi, we are

760
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: there a few months ago, and you were so busy

761
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: running around with all the chiks that I ain't really

762
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: get to catch up with you.

763
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: But it's like the capital of capital. So I know

764
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 3: you've been in those those rooms. What is the game theory? Like,

765
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 3: now that the US and Trump have made that declaration.

766
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: There's there's nations all over the world that are either

767
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: active getting active in the market, have already gotten active,

768
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: like just started to get active, or are in the

769
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: process of getting active, or are studying and will get

770
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: active over the course of the year. And so you know,

771
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: and like nation state buy in. You know, capital it

772
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: comes in many different shapes and forms. So you know,

773
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: it's not just like hey, we're gonna go out onto

774
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: coinbase and we're gonna hammer spot bitcoin. You know, after

775
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: that conference, it was it was revealed that some of

776
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: the sovereign wealth funds in Abu Dabi that you know

777
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: are not that are not you know, directly the central bank,

778
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: but they are sovereign money had bought bitcoin through the

779
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: Black rock etf They've bought bitcoin through different funds, and

780
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: then those funds have exposure to bitcoin. You know. A

781
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: great analogy or example would be like this deal that

782
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: just happened with Cantor and soft Bank, cant Or, soft

783
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: Bank and Tether that happened last week. Okay, well, soft

784
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: Bank put in a billion dollars. Whose money is that?

785
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: Where to SoftBank GI their money? Oh, soft bank is

786
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: back by Saudi, So that's Saldi money wrapped in a

787
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: in a Japanese you know, corporate that's then deploying it

788
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: into a US securitized bitcoin structure. Yeah, so like that's

789
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: sober money. So like the money is flowing. Uh, you know,

790
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 1: just in the same way that bitcoin carries career risk

791
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: for someone pushing it internally at their company, It carries

792
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 1: career risk for central bankers, it carries career risk for politicians,

793
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: it carries career risk for kings, and so you know,

794
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: there is a a step by step process that people

795
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: go through so that they are they are being appropriate

796
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: and respectful, uh, and and how they go about embracing

797
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: this technology, and that they're doing it in a way

798
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: that they have consensus or at least enough consensus amongst

799
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: their peers and amongst the other kind of power structures

800
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: within within their their their government. But without a doubt

801
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: it's happening. And I would say, you know, the phases

802
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: of adoption, Like right now, if I had a guess,

803
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: there's probably fifty nation states globally that are that are

804
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: actively mining bitcoin in one hundred megawatt plus size, and

805
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: you know some that have been talked about, many that

806
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: are not talked about or not not public. That's kind

807
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: of like the the let's say, lowest friction way through

808
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: the door for a government. You know, like there's one

809
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: government that well well known that you know they're turning

810
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: on right now four hundred megawatts of power to use

811
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: for bitcoin mining. And you know this is like their

812
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: first fora well, like as these facilities get up and running,

813
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: their next challenge is gonna be what happens with the bitcoin?

814
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: What do we do with the bitcoin that we mind? Like, uh,

815
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: who's responsible for collecting it, who's responsible for auditing it,

816
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: who's responsible for liquidating it? You know, are are are

817
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: we gonna have a custody provider? What custody provider are

818
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: we gonna pick? We're gonna build our own custody provider.

819
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: Like these are all like the next step consequences of

820
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: the initial decision that you have to figure out, and

821
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: then before you know it, it's like, oh, well this

822
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: this country has just built out their bitcoin program. You know,

823
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: now now they have all their chosen vendors to work with.

824
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: Now they have their chosen delegates within the government who

825
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: are responsible for the outcomes, and so like, once you

826
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: have that infrastructure developed, then it's like the next step becomes, Hey,

827
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: you know what, we don't have as much bitcoin as

828
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: we wish we had. Let's get the central bank plugged

829
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: into that thing and let's start. Let's start, let's start

830
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: running our own open market operations to get some more

831
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: of that. And so it's this like step by step process,

832
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: but it's happening, and you already have government at the

833
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: Let's get our teams into the market and start acquiring

834
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: this stuff.

835
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's great that you lay it out like that.

836
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 2: You know, someone like you have have been around a

837
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: really long time. I've been around, not as long as

838
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 2: you've been a long time as well, and I've built

839
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 2: a lot of businesses, so I tend to be able

840
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: to think longer.

841
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 3: But the one problem I see for most people is

842
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 3: they just think.

843
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: So short term, and it's like, you know, why isn't

844
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 2: this moving the market up already?

845
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 3: I saw the news yesterday, right, But it's like, man,

846
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: you don't just bring governments and sovereigns in. It takes time.

847
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: As you laid out very well, like the step by

848
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 2: step sort of incremental process that it takes to even

849
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 2: get in. So is this something that you know takes

850
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 2: these next three four years or it's probably more.

851
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 3: Of just like the continued gradual sort of Yeah.

852
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: No, it's like it's like the corporate adoption. It's the

853
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: same dynamic playing out. It's like, Okay, first there was one,

854
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: and then there was two, and then there was five,

855
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: and then there was ten, and then there was one hundred,

856
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: and now there's two hundred, and then in a year

857
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: there'll be a thousand, right, you know, And so it

858
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: is it is a continuous march, and you know, there's

859
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 1: definitely going to be a degree of like there's definitely

860
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: nation state competition and so like you know, right now,

861
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: most on the corporate adoption side, most people can ignore

862
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: micro strategy. But like the first like mag seven stock

863
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 1: that buys bitcoin, like the other seven are buying bitcoin

864
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 1: right away, and you know, the first G twenty country

865
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: that buys bitcoin and and is public about it or

866
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: is you know, people can identify it outside of the US,

867
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: but yeah, outside of the UK, no, but the US

868
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: hasn't bought yet. I mean the like as soon as

869
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: the US start is it becomes active in the market,

870
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: the second G twenty country is going to be going

871
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 1: to be days behind. And so you know, the even

872
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: in the United States, like I can tell you, like

873
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: there's the people a strategic Bitcoin reserve, and the program

874
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: for the US to go out and acquire more bitcoin

875
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: is a priority to make happen, and there are people

876
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: who are tasked with making it happen, and it is

877
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: there they are actively working on this, this this challenge.

878
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: It takes time to do these things right, Like it

879
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 1: takes time, like even if you wanted to go full speed,

880
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: it takes months and months and months. It's not like

881
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: the same as just like you setting up a coin

882
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: base account, you know, and and and getting to work.

883
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: So these things take time. And you know, I anticipate

884
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: personally that you're going to see the US get active

885
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: in the market this year. And I think that you know,

886
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: every other country. I mean, as I travel places, I'm

887
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: asked one hundred percent of the time, what is America's

888
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: bitcoin policy? You know, what is the plan with the

889
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: strategic Bitcoin reserve? Is America buying bitcoin? And like every

890
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: country wants to know that, So you know, the attention

891
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: is there, the activity is there, and then you know,

892
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: the urgency is what's developing, and and the urgency only

893
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 1: comes when you feel a sense of competition.

894
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, zoom out, zoom out. It's extremely bullish. It's

895
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 3: all in play, it's all in process, right.

896
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy. The wheel it's and.

897
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 3: The wheels are emotion.

898
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: And you know, the one thing I just add to

899
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 2: what you're saying is like, obviously corporations take a long

900
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: time to change their mandates and shareholders and all that.

901
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 2: The government obviously takes longer, but once those wheels are

902
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: in motion, they don't just easily stop either.

903
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: Correct, it works both, It works both ways.

904
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

905
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that's a good place to wrap

906
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: it up. Let's just have you leave us with something.

907
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: Since you've been in bitcoin, building in bitcoin for so long,

908
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 2: I didn't even get into the media company.

909
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 3: That's something I was interested in as I'm in the

910
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 3: media as well. But building in the space for a

911
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 3: long time.

912
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 2: I mean, you've probably convinced a million skeptics about it,

913
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 2: you got the US President on board. What is one

914
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 2: thing that you could say, uh, tell the world why

915
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 2: bitcoin matters not as a currency but as a revolution.

916
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: You know, I think fundamentally it is it is the

917
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: separation of money in state, and is the removal of

918
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: the unchecked, unfettered power of nations to compel their people

919
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 1: to do things by access and control of the money.

920
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 1: Like that is the fundamental premise of this whole thing.

921
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: And when we separate money and the state, we create

922
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: a consensual society. And every part of our society has

923
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: the capacity to grow in a way that it can't

924
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: when it's being malformed via centralized control. And so, you know,

925
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: I think the way to unshackle humanity is through unshackling

926
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: control over the money that rules us.

927
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 3: Love it, separate money in state, and that's why. All right, David,

928
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 3: that's amazing.

929
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 2: Anything I want to shout out obviously, bitcoin conference next month,

930
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 2: bitcoin magazine, anything else, Yeah, man.

931
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:56,720
Speaker 1: Just buy some bitcoin.

932
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 3: Bitcoin, all right, all.

933
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: Right, and thank you.

934
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 3: Mark.

935
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: Enjoyed being on