1 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: In the last hours, there is a renewed search for 2 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: a so called boyfriend of we now know deceased Gabbie Potito, 3 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: Brian Laundry in the Carlton Reserve twenty five thousand acres 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: of swamp land. Why this as Laundry's parents say they 5 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: are now finally going to search for their son, suggesting 6 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: that they have been disallowed from searching for him in 7 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: the past. Can he survive in Carlton Reserve? Has a 8 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: new fresh campsite just been found in Carlton Reserve? What 9 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: are the odds or is he far away on the 10 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: Appalachian Trail or beyond? Joining us today a swamp survived 11 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: val expert Chris Adams, also known as the Turtleman, and 12 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: you'll see why. Also with me an expert joining me 13 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: from the Appalachian Trail, what are his chances? Crime stories 14 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. First of all, take a listen to 15 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,639 Speaker 1: this breaking news in the Gabby Petito case. A source 16 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: call close to the Laundry family. It's told me that 17 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: law enforcement says they found fresh traces of a campsite 18 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: in the reserve. As you know, authorities are currently searching 19 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: for Brian Laundry in the Carlton Preserve in Venice, Florida. 20 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: An attorney for the Laundry family says, the parents believe 21 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: that's exactly where he's located. Quote. They don't believe he's 22 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: in another area. They believe he is in the preserve. 23 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,919 Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends over at CNN. Let me hdse 24 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: you an all star panel. First of all high profile 25 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: lawyer joining me out of Florida, Dale Carson, and a 26 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: former FBI agent, doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us 27 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at 28 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold MD dot com. Founder and director of the 29 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: Coldcase Research Institute. Cheryl McCullum, you can find her Coldcasecrimes 30 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: dot org. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 31 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and store 32 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: of a brand new hit series on iHeart Bodybags with 33 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining me on the scene. Massasaid investigative 34 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: reporter for w FLATV and our special guests. In addition 35 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: to Massa, Matt Hogan you can find him on Insta. 36 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: A castaway Underscore zero one eighty seven who is at 37 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: this moment hiking the Appalachian Trail and special guests joining 38 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: us from the swap. Chris Adams, also known as Quote Turtleman. 39 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: You can find him on Facebook, Living Wild, and on 40 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: TikTok also at Georgia Turtleman. Okay, first to you, Chris Adams. 41 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Chris, it's my understanding, then, 42 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: in a swamp such as the one you're familiar with, 43 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: miles away from the Carlton Reserve, that there really is 44 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: no fresh water. You and I have been out on 45 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: the swamp together for an extended period of time. I 46 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: was recounting the other day how within the first fifteen 47 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: minutes we saw about thirty to forty gators. Oh yes, ma'am. 48 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: Not their whole body, is just their eyes poking up. 49 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: I did not see one suggestion of fresh water the 50 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: entire time we were out on the swamp, Chris. Now, 51 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: the thing about our water and okifin Oki is a 52 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: little different. It's dealed with a lot of tannic and 53 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: in a pinch. If you needed to drink it, you 54 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: probably could. The problem down in Florida, where Brian is 55 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: probably at, is that you're dealing with muddy water, all 56 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: sorts of contaminants in that water, not to mention all 57 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: the wild life living around there. And one, if he's 58 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: in that swamp, he's going to get sloppy at some point. 59 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: You can't just go into a swamp and expect to 60 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: stay hidden for any amount of time unless you're good 61 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: at it. Being familiar with the place is one thing, 62 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: but knowing a place is a completely different story. I 63 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: find that very interesting Chris Adam's aka Turtleman. What do 64 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: you mean by that? You're bound to leave print somewhere 65 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: like I do hog hunting up on the Oakmugi River 66 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: here in Georgia. When I'm going through the swamps, it's 67 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: hard not to make a footprint. It's hard not to 68 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: bend the branch or break a branch as you're walking 69 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: through practical jungle. And that's not much different than the 70 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: terrain that Brian is possibly in down the in Florida. 71 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: The swamps between here and there not too dissimilar. They 72 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: all have pretty much the same wildlife, pretty much the 73 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: same flora. And you know, people have this misconception that 74 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: a swamp is just naturally a water body. It's made 75 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: up of many different things. You've got boggy areas and 76 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: shrub bays and bogs, you've got pine islands and things 77 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: in there. So there are places people could hide if 78 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: they had a mind too, but they would have to 79 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: know that terrain like the back of their hand. See, 80 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: like my family has lived in this part of Georgia 81 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: on the Satilla River for one hundred and eighty years. 82 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: They know swamps, There's no doubt about it. They've made 83 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: their living in them. And of course, back during Prohibition 84 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: when moonshining was a thing, a lot of that was 85 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: done down here. Yeah, because what lawman is going to 86 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,119 Speaker 1: go into the swamp looking for a steal? You're absolutely 87 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: correct with me, Chris Adams, who was at this moment 88 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: on a swamp. I want to follow up with everything 89 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: you just said, because it reminds me, Chris Adams of 90 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: something I've heard Joe Scott Morgan say many many times. 91 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: Is one of his main tenants in forensics and finding 92 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: the truth in a criminal matter, and that is that 93 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: there is no action without a reaction. There is no movement, 94 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: no crime without leaving a trace. What do you make 95 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: of what he just said, Joe Scott Morgan, Oh boy, 96 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: this is what I mean in a nutshell, Joe Scott, 97 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: don't start preaching a nutshell. I won't. I'm very excited, though. 98 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Nancy, the fact that they found 99 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: this fresh site the first thing that I thought of, 100 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: first thing that I thought of. If he's in dwelling 101 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: in that area, he has had to create waste. And 102 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: I don't just mean throwing paper away or cans. I'm 103 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: talking about feces. And with that, if he dug a hole, 104 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: he deposited feces, he may have covered it and it's there. 105 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: Think back to what the FBI did that second trip 106 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: to the laundry home. They walked in. Remember everybody's talking 107 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: about the brown bag and the bloodhounds and all that. 108 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: There's one image of one of those agents walking in. 109 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: They've got two white boxes under their arm. I think 110 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,239 Speaker 1: those were buckle Mucoastal DNA swab boxes, so they probably swab. 111 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: Why do you talk like that, Why do you even 112 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: say that? You know everybody doesn't know what a buckle 113 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: squab swab is for pizza? Well, what you do. What 114 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: we do is we swab the inside of the mouth 115 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: with a basically a Q tip. Don't make it sound 116 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: so scientific, and you believe they got a buckle swab 117 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: for that. They very well might have, because you know, 118 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: this guy is not a registered sexipentary, he's not on 119 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: they don't have like necessarily DNA sample on him, but 120 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: they could have harvested from the parents their DNA. Okay, 121 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: and then they're going to compare it to what they're 122 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: the mother with MDA contrial DNA. Okay, hold on, just 123 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: gotta see where you're headed. Let me go straight out 124 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: to Massa Saiedi, investigative reporter joining us from w FLA 125 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: there in Florida. Tell me about this so called fresh campsite. 126 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: And we're getting that from a source close to the 127 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: Laundry family. What do you know, Massa. Okay, So late 128 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: last night, CNN reported that according to a source close 129 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: to the Laundry family, as you said, the law enforcement 130 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: says they found a fresh traces of a campsite in 131 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: the reserve. Now, we have not been able to confirm 132 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: this independently, but we do know that Chris Laundry was 133 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: asked to assist law enforcement in their search for Brian 134 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: at the reserve. That was information we got from the 135 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: attorney yesterday and right now I'm texting with the attorney 136 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: because Chris Laundry just left the house this morning and 137 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: we asked if he goes to the reserve as it's happening, 138 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: and it appears that that might be happening. I'm texting 139 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: with the attorney right now. Okay, that really illuminated a 140 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: lot from me. Massa Saiedi joining us from w FLA 141 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace out to the founder and 142 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl hold on 143 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: all of this happening. When the parents saying, oh, now 144 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: we're going to go search. We haven't been allowed to 145 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: in the past, blah blah blah. What about this? What 146 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: if that source is correct, traces of campsite have been 147 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: found and they need the father or the mother to 148 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: come identify an object. We know Gabby Petito was first 149 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: identified when her stepfather saw her sweatshirt and he knew 150 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: immediately that's Gabby's What if they found an object out 151 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: there and they're asking the father to identify an object, 152 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: what do you make of that? Well, one thing, I 153 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: truly believe it's easy or got some type of hammock 154 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: or enu where he is off the ground. He's not 155 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: staying wet. I mean his thoughts can't be saturated for 156 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: twenty three days. I mean the skin will be coming all. 157 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: So what's interesting to me? Or two things. One in 158 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: the last day, the family has not only changed the timeline, 159 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: they changed the location. So that tells me they know 160 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: law enforcement is clothes. The other thing again, I'm just 161 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: gonna keep you know. Now, let me just clarify something. 162 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: Aren't you the one? And you too, Joe Scott Morgan. 163 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: They said, you guys thought he was up in the 164 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: Appalachian Trail. Well, let me let me go back if 165 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: you remember, and you said appealation and I said, no appellation. 166 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: And I can't believe, oh yeah, that we've all discarded that. 167 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: That's not a choice. Joe Scott go ahead, did anything? 168 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: From day one? I compared him to Eric Robert Rudolph 169 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: from day one, I said, he will go somewhere he's 170 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: familiar with, that he feels comfortable. There are two places, 171 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: Florida being one, but the other is the Applaian Trail. 172 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: And here's another thing. N see, when we first hang 173 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: on this is important. When we first heard about Bill Cosby, 174 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: Everybody's like, oh, I can't believe that not you know, 175 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: Bill Cosby, Well come forward. Then you've got fourteen women 176 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: come forward. Then you've got twenty seven women come forward. 177 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: If you have two dozen people giving you a similar area, 178 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: a similar sighting, a similar interaction, you can't ignore it. 179 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: So again, I think it's important that you know you 180 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: had me be their lives. I think it's important we're 181 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: talking about it. But again, you have different groups doing 182 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: different jobs. You've got one in the reserve, one doing 183 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: the Appelaian trail, one doing the phone, one doing the 184 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: crime scene, and w woman everybody he should be looking 185 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: for this guy. Okay, let me clarify something, or let 186 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: me have you clarified, Cheryl, you said that two things 187 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: have changed. Appearance, changed the timeline, which they did. They 188 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 1: are now saying Brian Laundry left a day earlier and 189 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: that they forgot and that the FBI communication jogged their memory. 190 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 1: What it was it was where that Ford Mustang was 191 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: part and the day it was part. It's what jogged 192 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: their memory. But now you're saying they also are changing 193 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: the location in a nutshell. Cheryl explained, they originally said 194 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: he went to the Carlton Reserve. Now they're saying his 195 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: car with seventeen miles away at another part, that it 196 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: connects to the Culton Reserve eventually, Damia, catchy, exactly right, 197 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: But again that ain't the same thing you've been challenging. No, 198 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: that's not. It's like saying Jackie left her car at 199 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: targeting and going oh, no, it was at Sacksmith Avenue. 200 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: That's a whole another ken of worms. And that's not 201 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: a state they would have made unintentionally. And let me 202 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: say one more thing. They're now saying, oh, we have 203 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: been allowed to search. You could have searched for him 204 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: from the thirteenth to the seventeenth, and you didn't, so 205 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: you yourself decided not to search for him from the 206 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: thirteenth through the seventeenth when you finally reported here. Very quickly, 207 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: let's play our cut two sixty three, our friends at 208 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: News Nation. Now it has been quiet at the Carlton 209 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: Reserve lately, but not today. Dozens of FBI agents back 210 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: in the swamp looking for any sign of Brian laundry. 211 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: Why this spot and why the renewed attention here today? 212 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: The FBI won't comment, they're going to stop in this area. 213 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: And again we don't know why or what they're doing, 214 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: but we're looking and today at the over twenty four 215 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: thousand acres swamp, this appeared a drone, but not like 216 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: the ones we're used to seeing. It's almost like a 217 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: mini plane. We know that the activity has increased in 218 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: Carlton Reserve. Why I want to circle back in Matt Hogan, 219 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: who was at this moment hiking the Appalachian Shrill. I'm 220 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: going to get to you just one moment where we 221 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: were talking about the Carlton Reserve right now. Chris Adams 222 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: joining me swamp survival expert on Facebook. He's at Living 223 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: Wild TikTok at Georgia Turtleman. Okay, you heard Sheryl McCollum 224 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: talking about he would have to have let's just say, 225 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: a hammock or some sort of an apparatus where he's 226 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: not on the wet earth and the swamp. Could you 227 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: tell me, Chris Adams, what this guy needs to survive 228 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: in Carlton Reserve. How is he doing it? Well, this 229 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: is coming from someone who literally camps in a bedroll 230 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: with a wool blanket and that's about it. But you 231 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: know these people that go out there and Chris we're 232 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: just learning that Fox has confirmed laundry dad just entered 233 00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: Carlton Reserve, So pass that on. Brian Lawry's father has 234 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: just entered Carlton Reserve. Now we don't need him for DNA. 235 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: He's there for something else. Either he's really there searching 236 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: or they're having him identify something. That would be my speculation. Okay, 237 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: back to you, Chris Adams. How's he surviving if he's 238 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: in crawl to Reserve, how's he doing it well? To 239 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: run off of that? If the care and his dad 240 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: been in there to try and identify something or verify something. 241 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: You know, someone who's been in the swamp for twenty 242 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: something days, let's just say he's been in there the 243 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: entire time. He's gonna get sloppy after a while. He's 244 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: not made for that environment. Nobody has made for that environment, 245 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: and those who are still I find a hard time, 246 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: as I was mentioned in earlier, leaving the ground untouched 247 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: or a branch not broken. But he's going to get 248 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: sloppy after a while. Something's going to be dropped somewhere, 249 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: something's going to be left behind because he's going to 250 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: feel like it's too much weight for you know, if 251 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: you're trying to survive out there, any extra amount of 252 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: weight you're carrying on you makes it much harder to 253 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: go through that dense vegetation. And also just the sheer 254 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: aggravation of it. It's mental aggravation. But how is he 255 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: physically doing it? When you've camped in the swath, which 256 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: you have done, how do you do it? Well? Normal 257 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: folks are going to carry some amount of food in there, 258 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: will them? Someone like myself, If they have even a 259 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: decent amount of knowledge, they might know some edible plants. 260 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: But the problem is at this time of your employer, 261 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: you're you're starting to run slim on your edible plants 262 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: down there. You might have for simmons, which have a 263 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: great amount of vitamin sea on them. If you can 264 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: find them, you can fish. If someone could probably make 265 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: a fish gig out of a piece of river cane 266 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: or a long limb of some kinds sharpen up to 267 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: the end. But it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be 268 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: tough on a person, There's no doubt about that. So 269 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: if he's doing it, he's doing it by the skin 270 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: of his teeth, you know, Other than leaving behind a 271 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: feces trail. What else would cops be looking for, Chris, 272 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: Oh lord, if he's slogging through swamp down there, and 273 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: there ought to be signed ample everywhere unless the man 274 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: knows what he's doing, anything from broken branches about shoulder 275 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: high to a person. He's not breaking anything off low 276 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: unless he's going through thalberries or blackberries, because then you'll 277 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: definitely leave trail signs. If you look at where animals 278 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: who walk through the woods bit deer or rabbit, you're 279 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: going to have a game trail somewhere. He's not just 280 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: going through that place without leaving a trail somewhere, And 281 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,239 Speaker 1: that's what would be what we would need to be 282 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: looking for basically. But it seems to me, Chris Adams, 283 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: you're the swamp expert that the FBI, if they don't 284 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: have one, would need a swamp expert to notice those 285 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: signs things that, for instance, you would notice that I 286 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: would not notice, yes, ma'am, And that was going to 287 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: be another comment I made. You know, you can go 288 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: over a swamp like that with a fine tooth calm 289 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: and you're still gonna miss a stump hole or some 290 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: grove of trees. You're not going to be able to 291 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: search twenty four twenty five thousand acres accurately. And that's 292 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: not discrediting the FBI or anyone like but I have 293 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: no experience in that. What I can say you would 294 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: definitely need to employ someone who knows that area like 295 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: the back of their hands. And that goes for you know, 296 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: anyone who's grown up around swamps or dense wilderness areas. 297 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: You've got to have a local who knows that place. 298 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace back to Massa's said, joining 299 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: me investigative reporter with WFLA, I want to get to 300 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: the truth of something, Moss, and I think you're my 301 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: best bet. We learned from the Laundry lawyer that Chris 302 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: Laundry was asked to assist law enforcement in their search 303 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: at the preserve. Today, they also say this lawyer, since 304 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: the reserve has been closed to the public, Chris has 305 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: not been able to look for Brian. He also claims 306 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: that cops had to quote postpone or halt Laundry's participation. Now, 307 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: Northport Police says that's not true, that they never stopped 308 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: the father or the mother from looking. What's the truth 309 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: of it? Okay, so the attorney text said that after 310 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: saying that Chris Laundry was asked to assist. As you 311 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: just read, he said, unfortunately this was yesterday. Northport police 312 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: had to postpone Chris's involvement. That's what he said yesterday. 313 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: Now we reached out to north for a police asking, hey, 314 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: did you postpone the involvement yesterday? Wasn't the Laundry father 315 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: allowed to go to the Carlton Reserve yesterday? And the 316 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: Northport police sent us this. They said, quote the FBI 317 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: as the leaf Northport police would not be making these 318 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 1: decisions and actions. The FBI would have to answer that 319 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: if that was true. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, 320 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum. He was missing. Laundry was missing for a 321 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: number of days before the FBI got involved. Correct, And Nancy, 322 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: if you remember a week ago I pointed out that 323 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: Dad's truck had that sandy white splash on it. If 324 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: you look at the FBI trugs out there in the reserve, 325 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: they've got the same splash. So it would appear to 326 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: be he went somewhere off the road. Now back to you, 327 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: Saieda Massa, Saieda, could you tell me this Laundry's car 328 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: was well, it's his parents' car. The Ford Mustang was 329 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: found sixteen miles from the Carlton Reserve. That that's not 330 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: where the Carlton Reserve is. That's my catchy park. What 331 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: do we know and what does that mean? Yeah, so 332 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: we got a redactive police report yesterday about the abandoned 333 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: Mustang and according to that report, it was we can 334 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: place that mustang on September fourteenth, around two forty two 335 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: pm at six nine sixty eight Ryerston Road. And it's 336 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: that other park that you just mentioned. And according to 337 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: a Google search, that's about seventeen miles away from the 338 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: Carlton Reserve. Some outlets are reporting that the two parks 339 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: are connected via a trail, but I'm trying to confirm 340 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: that on Google Maps right now. Okay, what does that 341 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: mean to Usher McCollum again, it means to me, we 342 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: were told the wrong date, we were told the wrong location. 343 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: So if law enforcement has been focused on one area 344 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: for a period of twenty days, you know, maybe they're 345 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: in the right area, maybe they're not. Maybe this is 346 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: a right hearing, maybe it's not, but it's difficult for 347 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: me to believe he's got a future daughter in law 348 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: that is gone missing, and her parents are calling you 349 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: non stop. They are leaving messages, they are frantic, they're 350 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: texting you. And then a detective starts to call you 351 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: about the eleventh to say, hey, have you seen her? 352 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: Then the police come to your house and go, hey, 353 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: get missed her van? Where's your son? And this whole 354 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: time that you're not picture perfect of when you last 355 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: saw him and what was going on. I just find 356 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: that extraordinarily difficult to believe. Let's go straight out to 357 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: del Carson, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former 358 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: FBI agent at del Carson law dot com. Okay, del 359 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: Carson jump in, Well, look, they're gonna if they found 360 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: a site and they're reasonably sure that this fellow Landry 361 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: was there, they'll just take a shamp dog and determine 362 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: whether or not that's true. So the problem is we 363 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: don't have enough information right now to know whether or 364 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: not that site is actually connected to him. Now, it's 365 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: been closed from law by law enforcement for a number 366 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: of weeks, but that doesn't mean somebody else hasn't been 367 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: in there camping. Because you can't put a perimeter up 368 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: around that entire preserve. Okay, so do you, Chris Adams, 369 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: you're saying that there. I believe you said pine Islands 370 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: for instance in Okifinoki, that there are places to camp 371 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: within the Carlton Reserve. Having never been on the Carlton 372 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: Reserve down there, I'm just going from what I'm pretty 373 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: familiar with. There's going to be a high dry place 374 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: in that song. Even on most of your river swamps, 375 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 1: you're going to find a ridge of land or a 376 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: rise in that floodplain area where you could at least 377 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: get up and have a dry moment to yourself when 378 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: going through that type of terrain. Well, that's where the 379 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: camp sites are. Go ahead, deal, that's where the camp 380 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: sites are. Because I'm involved in swamps here in Florida 381 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: and constantly we would do searchers through those areas. Formally, 382 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: you find high ground all over the place, and that's 383 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: where people camp. That's where they said of Moonshine Stills, 384 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: that's aside from that, you've got to build an elevated platform, 385 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: if you know anything, Can we just leave Maonshine out 386 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: of this? Okay? No more with the Stills, But I 387 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: hear you del Carson I hear you, Chris Adams. Yes, 388 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: there's a place for him to camp if he was 389 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: so inclined. The other alternative that keeps cropping up is 390 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: the Appalachian Trail. We know he's camped there before, We 391 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: know he's hiked there for several months and survived. Joining 392 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: me right now on the Appalachian Trail is trail hiker 393 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: castaway underscores zero one eight seven Matt Hogan. Matt, thank 394 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: you for being with us and waiting. I know you 395 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: are hiking at this moment going up Appalachian Trail. How 396 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: hard would it be to hide out, say twenty feet 397 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: twenty yards off the trail and go unspotted. It is 398 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: absolutely impossible. Um, just four or five days that we've 399 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: been out here has been raining NonStop. So if you 400 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: don't have any type of UH gear to sleeping, don't 401 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: have a tank on sleeping bag. Um. The temperature is 402 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: fire about fifty four at night, So the livelihood of 403 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: you surviving is slim to none, especially if you don't 404 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: have any experience out in the woods. Um, and the 405 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: likelihood of him being on trail of flyndon none. But hint, 406 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,959 Speaker 1: because he's gonna want to resurface and try to at 407 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: least get some food. Water is very scarce, especially if 408 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: you don't know how to filter your water. Um So 409 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: I'd say the chances of him, if he is out here, 410 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: him surviving, it's very slim. Okay, hold on, Matt Hogan, 411 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: Matt Hogan castaway underscor zero one eight seven and Chris 412 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: Adams with me at Georgia turtleman, a swamp expert and 413 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: an Appalachian Trail expert. Let me go to doctor Angela Arnold. 414 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: I think we need a shrink psychiatrists joining me out 415 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie, Come on, this guy 416 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: might have gone. I mean, boy, scouts go. I've even 417 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: done the Appalachian Trail for Pete's sake. Not far, not 418 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: far at all, but going on the Appalachian Trail for 419 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: three weeks, it's a lot in the summertime, with your 420 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: friends and your backpack, pull of pood and your camp fire. 421 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: It's a lot different than on the run from the law, 422 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: trying not to build a fire and sitting there in 423 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: the rain with nothing to eat. Okay, different from out 424 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: being out in the swamp trying to survive. How do 425 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: I know this. This isn't just some suburban mama's boy 426 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: who won't hold a job, who lives at home with 427 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: his parents, who doesn't have his own car, and he 428 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: goes hiking. He's a survivalist. There's a big difference in 429 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: somebody like Matt Hogan or Chris Adams that can literally 430 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: go out in the wild and live and somebody that 431 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 1: plays at it. That's why we have houses, no offense, 432 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: Chris Adams and Matt Hogan. That's why we have blankets 433 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: and houses and rugs and stoves and grocery stores so 434 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: we don't have to do that. So what's the likelihood 435 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: of a weekend warrior surviving in these conditions you're hearing 436 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: from Matt Hogan and Chris Adams. I think the likelihood 437 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: is zero to none, Nancy. I have known of people 438 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: who have who have prepared for months to do something 439 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: like this. Meanwhile, for the past several months, he's been 440 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: living in a cushy van, eating in restaurants. He's not 441 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: prepared for us, living office girlfriend's debit card exactly. He 442 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: and I think it's such a distraction because people are like, oh, 443 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,919 Speaker 1: maybe he isn't maybe he is on the Appalachian Trail. 444 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: He can't survive on the Appalachian Trail. Nothing question, Where 445 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: is this guy finding water to drink? I mean, lack 446 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: of water will kill you before lack of food will. 447 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. Hey, Nancy, Yeah, just jump in. 448 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: I want to hear your thoughts. Is that Massa Sati 449 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: or Cheryl McCollum. Cheryl McCollum. Okay, how did I know 450 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: that every every expert you have had so far has 451 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: said there's no way he can survive in the swamp, 452 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: There's no way he can survive on the Appalachian Trail. 453 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: He has been successful for twenty four days. He has 454 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: eluded the SEI, he's a luted the marshals, he's eluded 455 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: his parents allegedly, he's a he's eluded dogs, the bounty hunter. 456 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: He's eluded the k nines, He's eluded you know, YouTubers 457 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: and tiktoks and the media in the general public. He 458 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: has been successful for Dadgum near a month. Well, you're 459 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: going under the assumption that he's in one of those 460 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: two places. I'm not entirely period. That's my point. Okay, 461 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: So let's let's go without Chris Adams. Um, everybody, if 462 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: you have a thought, please jump in. Um Chris Adams, 463 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: you just said he could be somewhere else. Let's talk 464 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: about that. So we know he went camping at DeSoto 465 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: Park in Florida with his parents while his girlfriend is 466 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: lying decomposing out in Wyoming. They go for a camping trip. 467 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: Not judging, just in analyzing. So where could he go 468 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: from there? Chris Adams, you're theorizing a bit. You know, 469 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: he could have before everyone was looking for him, hop 470 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: to ride to some other state, to some other town. 471 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: He could be in an entirely different part of the 472 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: state altogether. We wouldn't know it. You know, there's plenty 473 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: of people out there looking for someone with I believe 474 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: it's the neck tattoo. That right, I believe it is. 475 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: He's got a couple of tattoos. You're right, go ahead. 476 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I can show you plenty of people who 477 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: look very similar to the guy just around my hometown, 478 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: much less, I mean, all over the country. It's nothing 479 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: for someone who probably isn't as informed from the news 480 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: or what they sing online to pick up this guy 481 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: who might need to ride and carry him somewhere else 482 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: and not know I mean it's still possible in this 483 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: day and time, he could be in another end of 484 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: the country. Well, I have to agree with Adams. I 485 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: have to agree with Adams. Massasadi before there was a 486 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: man hunt in those days and the parents were covering 487 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: for him. And remember, you know we've got a window 488 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: now of several days. We think about four days. Lad, 489 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: he's guested us now for twenty four days during that 490 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: original time, Massa, I mean if it were me and 491 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: I was going on the run and I couldn't leave 492 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: the country, I would do exactly what Chris Adams just said. 493 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: I would get as far away from where they're going 494 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: to look for me as I could by any means 495 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: I could, and that would be hitching unless somebody got 496 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: him a vehicle. What about him, Massa, Well, we know 497 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: that l I was at the scene yesterday. I was 498 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: trying to talk to as many neighbors as possible, and 499 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: we know that on September eleventh is when the neighbors 500 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: spot at the police there, that's when they took the 501 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: van out. So by September eleventh, obviously more for police 502 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: were on this, They were looking into this, how aggressively, 503 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: how much were they monitoring the home. We don't know, 504 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, like you said, Nancy, on September thirteenth, that 505 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: is what we are being told now by the Laundry 506 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: family attorney. That's when he left. And he wasn't reported 507 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: missing for four days now three days. So yeah, he 508 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: had four days. I mean, think about it. Think about it. 509 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: Four days of hitching. How far could he get? Joe Scott, listen, 510 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you. You know, one of the things 511 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,719 Speaker 1: that Massa had said earlier, we need to keep this 512 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: in mind. She said that this information about the campsite 513 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: being fresh had not been confirmed yet they're still waiting 514 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: on that. That doesn't mean he could not have been 515 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: there at some point in time. I've held that they 516 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: could have spirited him to some local location and have 517 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: had him quote unquote cool his heels until he gain 518 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: advanced to another maybe population center. Again, I'm thinking homeless 519 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,479 Speaker 1: populations you can blend in. They're not watching the news. 520 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: You live under a bridge. You never know, living under 521 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: a bridge like a troll. That is not where he is. Okay. 522 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: I want to go back to Matt Hogan, who is 523 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: on the Appalachian Trail right now. Matt, earlier you told 524 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: me nobody could, I mean, unless you're a real pro 525 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: could make it on the appalach Trail for an extent 526 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: a period of time. And I don't know if you 527 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: remember the name Matt Hogan. Cheryl and I like to 528 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: talk about it a walk because this guy affected our lives. 529 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: This guy, Eric Rudolph set a bomb that threw off 530 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: strapnel that hit my investigator that I worked with one 531 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: on one for ten years. He managed to live what 532 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: was it three years Cheryl on the Appalachian Trail? He 533 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: lived seven in the Lord saying, but you have to 534 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: have the knowledge to be able to know what you 535 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: can eat, what a type of plants to stay away 536 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: from that will give you any type of rashes that 537 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: you can't take care of on the trail if you 538 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: don't have the proper medications. And water temperature is a 539 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: big thing, especially right now during the season right now 540 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: because it drops in the fifties that night, So if 541 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: he doesn't have the proper winter apparel, you know he's 542 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: going to freeze to death. And the water is the 543 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: biggest thing, you know, if you don't have a water source, 544 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: the likelihood of you surviving even a week. It's London 545 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: none but man Hogan. Cheryl McCollum, who was on the 546 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: Applachian Trail about forty eight hours ago reporting from there, 547 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: says that fifteen feet fifteen yards off the trail, nobody 548 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: on the trail would even see you. No, absolutely not. 549 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: The density is very sick. Especially the fog has been 550 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: really sick all day because of the rain up here 551 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: in the elevation, So the fog sits very, very thick 552 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: through the trees. So the you being able to see 553 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: anybody is definitely very hard. But like I said, even 554 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: if he goes thirty yards off trail, the like of 555 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: him survived. If he doesn't have any pins, he doesn't 556 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: have any type of outdoor ware, he's not going to 557 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: survive in this. Playing hide and seek is one thing, 558 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: but remaining hidden is a completely different thing altogether. You 559 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: can hide behind a tree or in a thicket of 560 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: shrubs and go unseen for a few hours hours, But 561 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: when you go to getting hungry and have to go 562 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: and make a campsite somewhere, keep yourself warm, keep the 563 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: insect off of you, you know you're playing a dangerous game. 564 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: Then if you don't have a no how and I 565 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: think if I might add One other thing that we're 566 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: not taken into consideration is, let's say he's in a swamp, 567 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: or let's say he's in a wilderness like in North Georgia, 568 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: anywhere along the Appalachian mountains there. If he gets cut 569 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: and he gets in a puddle of water or something 570 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,879 Speaker 1: and gets bacteria, we're not thinking about his medical needs here. 571 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: Eventually he is going to run into a bush or 572 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: get cut along the foot or the ankle or the arm. 573 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: He's going to have a problem. He's gonna have to 574 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: doctorate himself after a while of going through or just 575 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: use my neck of the woods. A swamp, you're going 576 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: to get cut up, and if you're not careful, you 577 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: can get sick from certain things out there. There's something 578 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: to keep in mind. Sure, I'm a calm Listen, do 579 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: you hear what Chris Adams and Matt Hogan is saying? Listen, 580 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 1: do you think his mother would let him go off 581 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: and live this long in a swamp or in the 582 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: Appalachian trail. His mama has a good idea where he is. 583 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,839 Speaker 1: She's had a good idea. I knew that, But do 584 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: you think they would pack him off to Carlton Reserve 585 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: or Appalation. I think if you said, hey, do you 586 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: want the Appelaian Trail or Rikers Island, there ain't no 587 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: question where I'd rather my cowbe. Okay, well that's a 588 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: good point. I didn't think about it like that. Okay, 589 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,479 Speaker 1: go ahead, Dell jump in. You know. Look, he came 590 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: back from Moab and met with a family, right and 591 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: then he flew back and he was with the gal 592 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,720 Speaker 1: and presumably, based on the evidence we have, he's somewhat 593 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: familiar with her death. Now in that interval, they could 594 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 1: have very usually located a place for him to stay 595 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: that has table, refrigerator and food deliveries. He doesn't have 596 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: to be in the woods. There's an assumption based on 597 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: his history that he's in the woods. But if that 598 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: family's got money, they could very easily put him up 599 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: in a conventional house somewhere. It would only be a 600 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: matter of time before he's traced there through a money trail. 601 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: I mean, unless they rented it for a year. Any 602 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: electronic transaction is going to be scrutinized. But we've got 603 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: to think beyond Carlton Reserve, and we've got to think 604 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: beyond Appalachian Trail. We have to look at the timeline, 605 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,760 Speaker 1: and we have to look at, for instance, that white truck. 606 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 1: Dennis Davies said he saw Brian Laundry driving it. Not 607 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: necessarily that truck, but that truck included. Does he have 608 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: access to a vehicle? Is he doing what he does 609 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: best camping in a vehicle. It's not really camping, but 610 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: it's going from place to place. The only thing is, 611 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: even when you go to an RV camp or campground, 612 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: somebody lets you in, would they identify him or is 613 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 1: he doing dispersed camping out beyond a normal campground out 614 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: in the wild. That's what he does. Where is Brian Laundry? 615 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,879 Speaker 1: And Del Carson said earlier, and I think he's right. 616 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: We don't know enough. For instance, Joe Scott, when we 617 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: hear there's a fresh campsite or evidence of a fresh 618 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: camp site, does that mean do they say massa? Do 619 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: they say fresh evidence of a camp site or evidence 620 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,479 Speaker 1: of a fresh camp site. I'm pulling it up right 621 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: now because that's actually pretty important. You know, words matter. 622 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:37,479 Speaker 1: Fresh traces of a campsite according to Cuomo, So does 623 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: that mean they're just finding an old camp site or 624 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 1: does it mean they've just found evidence of a recent 625 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: camp site. Go ahead, Cheryl, I think it's important to 626 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: point out that near Gabby's body was a fire ring. 627 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: Somebody had made some type of fire in close proximity 628 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: to her death. When we go and my brother in 629 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: law will make a fire a certain way, very different 630 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: than the way Walter do it, and that's very different 631 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: than the way husb will do it. My brother in 632 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: law digs out a ring and then puts rocks down 633 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: low in the ground, walk puts them tooth stack. Where's 634 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 1: hugg That's put them straight on the ground in a ring, 635 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: so I can tell from a distance who made it. 636 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: That's another thing. It's a fire. If there was a 637 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: camp fire in the reserve, if it was built similar 638 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,280 Speaker 1: to the one in Wyoming, that could be another connection. 639 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: That's a very valid point right there. If I'm o D. 640 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: Chris Adams, you're right again, okay. Matt Hoggan on the 641 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: applation trail for Pete satan Man, keep your eyes open, 642 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: Chris Itams, Del Carson, Doctor Angie, Sheryl McCallum, Joe Scott Morgan, 643 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: my society, and you, our listeners and our viewers. Thank you. 644 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: For being with us today as the search goes on. 645 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 1: And let's not forget what this is really all about. 646 00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: This is about Gabby Petito and her murder, her homicide. 647 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,879 Speaker 1: Let justice be done. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, 648 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,