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Speaker 1: The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com

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Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.

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Speaker 2: Cowboys. This He's Talking Cowboys Straining live from.

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Speaker 3: The Dallas Cowboys World Head Course at the Star in Frisco.

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Speaker 4: Tag Burners, that's got t takedown.

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Speaker 1: And now your hosts Isaiah Standback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez,

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Speaker 1: and Kyle Yeomans.

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Speaker 5: It's sent off season edition of Talking Cowboys, presented by

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Speaker 5: Black Rifle Coffee Company, live from the Star in Frisco, Texas.

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Speaker 2: In the s W Beat Sea Studios. Welcome in everybody.

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Speaker 5: We've got Patrick Noci Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Chris Beam in

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Speaker 5: the back. I'm Kyle Yo. What's filling in for Isaiah Standback?

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Speaker 5: We've got the one, the only, Tommy Yarish of Dallas

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Speaker 5: Cowboys dot Com.

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Speaker 2: Oh brother, Oh brother, where's the drop bea?

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Speaker 6: What happened to warm? Welcome even before on the show.

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Speaker 3: I'm welcome. You're already a part of the show.

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Speaker 6: Yelling at me in my ear, He's yelling at me.

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Speaker 6: I didn't yell at you?

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Speaker 3: You did? Did you part of the show already?

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Speaker 7: Man?

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Speaker 5: She comes, He comes forward, trying to up in the

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Speaker 5: whole rundown trying to talk draft Dude, there's.

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Speaker 3: A whole show, Brother.

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Speaker 6: And a half.

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Speaker 2: We've got an hour until that show starts, so we'll

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Speaker 2: be well.

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Speaker 6: He was talking about something and fully separate.

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Speaker 2: I know, you know we are going to put together

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Speaker 2: some cool draft block content today.

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Speaker 8: Though.

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Speaker 6: Let's go Cowboys dot Com.

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Speaker 2: Come, no, no, Isaiah, I can't hit that note. Sure

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Speaker 2: he can't.

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Speaker 8: I can't.

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Speaker 2: You're sitting in the chair.

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Speaker 9: You gotta hit the you'll be studios and you got to.

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Speaker 3: Hit the docks. Someone said, Isaiah looks pale.

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Speaker 6: Just a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, guys, just that guy a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Shouts after that guy. Appreciate you all joining us here.

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Speaker 2: I gotta love the chat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the fan morning, family, Yeah, family. I hope everybody's

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Speaker 3: doing okay, wonderful to see you.

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Speaker 2: Do everybody have a good, safe holiday weekend?

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, absolutely, it's good.

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Speaker 7: Good calming. Uh, you know, spend time with the family.

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Speaker 10: Good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Do you compressed for a little bit, for a little.

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Speaker 5: Bit, didn't have the stresses of NFL playoff football?

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Speaker 3: I hate Watch was utterly successful. Okay, just tell me

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 2: How would I get watch?

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Speaker 4: I mean, well, you know, last week obviously, you know,

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Speaker 4: the Eagles went down and then so then up next

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Speaker 4: was seeing the San Francisco forty nine ers hopefully lose.

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Speaker 3: Not only did they lose, they washed. Oh brother, what was.

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Speaker 7: Left of the San Francisco for they got taken out?

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Speaker 2: Have you ever seen that many injuries in one particular?

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Speaker 6: Goodness, that was horrible.

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Speaker 5: I mean it was like every other play there was

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Speaker 5: somebody leaving. But that's been their whole season, really had.

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Speaker 4: I really want you to scan my face and see

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Speaker 4: how if you can find any fs do I give

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Speaker 4: because I do not.

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Speaker 2: I'm scanning and I do not see it.

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Speaker 6: You can buy into the power plant theory.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I was going to bring that up. Is

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Speaker 2: that a real thing?

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Speaker 6: Yes, that's a real thing.

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Speaker 5: So there's a power plant that's next to or nearby

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Speaker 5: the San Francisco forty nine ers training facility and headquarters

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Speaker 5: as if as is the Star in Frisco is close

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Speaker 5: to the Camerica Center and the Frisco Rough Riders.

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Speaker 2: In Ikea, it is close to a Kia. Yeah, Ikeia

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Speaker 2: is over there. That's a staple.

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Speaker 5: Then you go to the opposite side and you've got

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Speaker 5: San Francisco. It's close to this power plant that apparently

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Speaker 5: is putting off too much radiation.

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Speaker 6: I don't know what it is. Look, I'm not a scientist.

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Speaker 3: That's not either. If Chernobyl and the Simpsons have taught

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Speaker 3: us anything, it's that radiation is not great for a

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Speaker 3: human being.

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Speaker 6: That's that's a pretty good analysis.

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Speaker 11: But like you can see some sometimes they take videos

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Speaker 11: of practice to it forty nine ers beat Writers or

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Speaker 11: whoever it is, and you can see it in the background,

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Speaker 11: and it's like that clar I don't know, maybe this

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Speaker 11: is too much, too much scientific theory. And I mean,

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Speaker 11: I'm sure they've they've been practicing there.

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Speaker 2: For on brock Party.

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Speaker 3: He has a third eye. Next year, they're going to

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Speaker 3: be real entertained.

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Speaker 11: Joan Jennings has four legs and he's galloping around.

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Speaker 2: So the USA.

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Speaker 4: Today like feavers need four legs because they keep tearing

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Speaker 4: a clue two of us.

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Speaker 5: The USA today like publish an article about it. So,

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Speaker 5: I mean, there's there's legs to the rumor, right, I mean,

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Speaker 5: there's several of them. Yeah, maybe that might be running

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Speaker 5: in the right direction. But it's a conspiracy theory and

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Speaker 5: I think that's really all it is. But that is

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Speaker 5: pretty wild. Oh no, I could see it being a thing.

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Speaker 5: I mean, just like the power line, there's not even

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Speaker 5: a theory. Let's say they have scientific you're a big

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Speaker 5: science guy. Let's say they have scientific evidence that this

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Speaker 5: is the case. How quickly would they build a new

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Speaker 5: front like new headquarters elsewhere I think is it would?

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Speaker 2: It would have to start immediately, right tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: It would bring those Olympic construction workers. See, then the

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Speaker 3: question non stop.

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Speaker 7: First the country first.

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Speaker 4: Then the question becomes you're saying, if that, if that,

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Speaker 4: if those findings became public, You're not going to tell

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Speaker 4: me that a multi billion dollar stadium was built within

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Speaker 4: this proximity of a power plant and no studies were

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Speaker 4: done prior, Like nobody thought twice, Like.

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Speaker 5: People think twice before doing things that are capital gains.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's what I mean.

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Speaker 4: So some somebody knew something. But at the end of

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Speaker 4: the day, it's a San Francisco problem. I hope they

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Speaker 4: get that figured out.

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Speaker 6: Actually, when I think, hey, we got to play there.

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Speaker 11: When I think about designings and play leaf, you know,

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Speaker 11: designed my expansive knowledge in designing buildings typically, you know,

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Speaker 11: when I'm scanning the terrain a nuclear power first thing

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Speaker 11: I'm saying for right, just prime prime positions.

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Speaker 2: Maybe cheap real estate. Maybe that's why they did it cheap,

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Melvin said they've practiced by a power plant for

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Speaker 5: like thirty years. I don't know when they built the facility,

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Speaker 5: but they haven't won a Super Bowl in thirty years.

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Speaker 6: That's my point. I feel like they've been now.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so Devil's advocate, I'll say it. So no one

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Speaker 4: in the family has.

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Speaker 3: To there's no power plant here.

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Speaker 2: That's just procure bad luck.

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Speaker 3: No, we just do oil. That's pretty.

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Speaker 4: Oiling natural gas here in the Great state of Texas.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, but you know, my hate watch was fantastic

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Speaker 4: and uh down to and I'm sorry Miami fans, but

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Speaker 4: I'm not a Carson Bank fan. Everyone could know why.

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Speaker 4: I don't need to get into that, but Carson Big

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Speaker 4: Go Dogs. Can't say Carson.

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Speaker 7: Bick ended his career Go Dogs.

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Speaker 4: Wow a loss on an exception that was so on brand,

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Speaker 4: so on South South to Indiana, Man, Indiana. I mean,

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Speaker 4: just just what they've been able to achieve is unbelievable.

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Speaker 4: And I honestly say this objectively. Even if my dogs

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Speaker 4: had advanced. No one was beating Indiana this year.

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Speaker 11: That's the best, the best turnaround of a program in

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Speaker 11: football history.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I don't think you could structurally sound, physically sound,

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Speaker 3: I mean just all the above. The best team in

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Speaker 3: college football sixteen.

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Speaker 2: And o Heisman Trophy winner, just unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: Their pictures.

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Speaker 5: There are pictures of their season opener two years ago

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Speaker 5: in August and there was like forty five hundred people

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Speaker 5: in the stands.

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Speaker 2: And now they're national champions. You see the riots and

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Speaker 2: not the riots, but like the celebration right in Indiana, j.

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Speaker 10: C.

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Speaker 2: If you've been out there, what they have like.

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Speaker 3: Gristo stop signs, buddies, right, not.

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Speaker 2: A lot of whole lot. There's not a lot going

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Speaker 2: on in Bloomington. And you.

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Speaker 7: If you can get to the top of the stop

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Speaker 7: side when.

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Speaker 5: You hurt your ankle on the way down, dude, it's

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Speaker 5: the highest elevation in Indiana.

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Speaker 3: Dude.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, stops they got fair.

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Speaker 3: But good for them.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure they did it with more class than Philadelphia.

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Speaker 4: I mean everyone does.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 3: It's easy. Someone says, best championship money, come buy shust

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Speaker 3: to Melvin. You said it, buddy, money.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't even hate any money, not the same that

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Speaker 5: it has that the teams that they beat along.

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Speaker 11: Melvin Indiana just has a bunch of thirty year olds

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Speaker 11: from James I played James Madison.

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Speaker 5: Anything that should show that, like group of five teams

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Speaker 5: aren't as far far off from those power forward.

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Speaker 2: Teams as you just joke power then what fun? What

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Speaker 2: was fun?

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Speaker 3: Power?

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Speaker 2: Power? No, that wasn't purpose. Let's get into news purpose.

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Speaker 2: Talk about the Dallas Cowboys a little bit.

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Speaker 5: When we talk about the coordinator search, that's always got

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Speaker 5: to be number one.

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Speaker 4: Yep, it's expanded a bit since last we met here

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Speaker 4: on this great panel called Talking Cowboys. So we'll work

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Speaker 4: it from back to ford. So we'll talk about who

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Speaker 4: we knew about, who we spoke about, and then we'll

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Speaker 4: go into who who's new as far as the candidacy

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Speaker 4: is concerned. So we know that the Cowboys have interviewed e.

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Speaker 4: F ring banda Brown's safety's coach, Deronte Jones, Vikings defensive

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Speaker 4: pass game quodinator Jim Leonard, a lot of people like

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Speaker 4: Bronco's defensive pass game coordinator Jonathan Gannon currently a free agent,

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Speaker 4: Aaron White, Cotton incumbent Cowboys defensive line coach, zach Or

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Speaker 4: Ravens defensive coordinator. Now these next three guys, these next

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Speaker 4: three guys are new to the fold as far as

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Speaker 4: most recently interviewed. So Christian Parker Eagles past game coordinator

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Speaker 4: slash defensive backs coach interviewed. We'll talk about him in

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Speaker 4: a moment. DeMarcus Covington Packers running game coordinator and defensive

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Speaker 4: line coach also spoke with the Cowboys and Charlie Bullen

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Speaker 4: Giants interim defensive coordinator. He was also he also spoke

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Speaker 4: with them, now key jeff Olbrick. The Cowboys were initially

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Speaker 4: not an interview by the Atlanta Falcons for speaking with

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Speaker 4: jeff Olbrick. Cowboys were hoping to circle back there in

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Speaker 4: the event that whomever became the new head coach now

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Speaker 4: we know it's Kevin Stefanski was going to move on

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Speaker 4: from Olbrick. As it turns out they are not going

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Speaker 4: to move on from him. So they still look at

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Speaker 4: the Cowboys and say, no soup for you. So the

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Speaker 4: Cowboys will not speak with Jeff Olbrick, but Charlie Bullen,

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Speaker 4: DeMarcus Covington, Christian Parker add those three to the list

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Speaker 4: of interviewed candidates or soon to be interviewed candidates, and

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Speaker 4: then we have others that might get a look. We'll

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Speaker 4: see Cowboys fans are asking for a Q and A

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Speaker 4: with Sean McDermott, for example. So some some new names

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Speaker 4: are out there that coupleys haven't spoken with you.

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Speaker 11: I would be shocked if Sean McDermott was the interview

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Speaker 11: only because I think he'll be a head coach next.

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Speaker 6: I think he'll be a head coach again.

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Speaker 3: I don't wear that was the most surprising coaching movie.

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Speaker 11: I don't know, Well, it'll be something. I mean, you've

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Speaker 11: got six openings, yeah, after the NFL. That's this is

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Speaker 11: an unprecedented offseason in terms of the amount. Just ten total, right, yeah,

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Speaker 11: ten total, and that filled four with Robert Sala being

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Speaker 11: hired by the Titans last night. I think the interesting

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Speaker 11: part about this search is that now we're kind of

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Speaker 11: getting into the second phase of it in terms of

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Speaker 11: guys coming in for second in person interviews. Some interviews

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Speaker 11: may have already been in person. I think Patrick Ee

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Speaker 11: reported last week that Zach Orr might have been here.

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Speaker 11: It makes sense he's he's from the area, North Texas

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Speaker 11: guy went.

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Speaker 7: To U n T.

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Speaker 2: Hey, thank you, but their next game, by the way,

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Speaker 2: so product.

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Speaker 11: So you know, good luck, we open at it, good luck,

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Speaker 11: good luck, better ramp up, keep it to within fifty.

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Speaker 11: But some guys that have interviewed or will be coming

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Speaker 11: in for in person interviews Derante Jones, the Vikings pass

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Speaker 11: game coordinator, Jonathan Gannon, the former Cardinals head coach, and

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Speaker 11: then the Eagles pass game coordinator in DB's coach, Christian Parker.

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Speaker 11: I'll tell you what I think. I'm really impressed by

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Speaker 11: Christian Parker's resume. I think he's done a fantastic job years. Yeah,

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Speaker 11: started out in Denver and was the DB's coach in

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Speaker 11: Denver and started when they drafted Patzertan led into three

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Speaker 11: straight Pro Bowls before he went to the Eagles, and

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Speaker 11: then he's done an excellent job there developing Quinnon, Mitchell

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Speaker 11: and Cooper dejan both of those guys all Pros this

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Speaker 11: year in his second year with the team. So he

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Speaker 11: has a knack for developing the defensive backfield. And when

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Speaker 11: you think about this Cowboys defense, obviously the secondary, much

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Speaker 11: like every unit on their defense, was a massive struggle

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Speaker 11: this year. But they feel like they have guys in

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Speaker 11: placed there in Savonne. Revel Trequez Bridges is a guy

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Speaker 11: there high on. Who knows if that's to be the

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Speaker 11: case for twenty twenty six. Do they go first round

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Speaker 11: with a draft at corner? But they want to develop

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Speaker 11: these young defensive backs that they've got back there, and

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Speaker 11: I think Christian Parker has an incredible resume, maybe the

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Speaker 11: best resume in terms of the developing of defensive backs

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Speaker 11: of all the candidates that have been interviewed so far.

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Speaker 11: So consider me a fan of Christian Parker and we'll

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Speaker 11: see how the rest of this goes. But those three

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Speaker 11: names kind of just naturally because they're coming in for

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Speaker 11: those second interviews. We talked to Steven Jones last week

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Speaker 11: and he was telling us about that that they're starting

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Speaker 11: to get into that process too. Those names kind of

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Speaker 11: rise a little bit more to the top in terms of, Okay,

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Speaker 11: these are more probable hires in terms of maybe guys

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Speaker 11: that have only been interviewed.

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Speaker 3: Once and just again on Leonard to reiterate, we can't

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Speaker 3: have an in person interview with him until the Broncos

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Speaker 3: season is.

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Speaker 11: Broncos needs to need to lose first before they can

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Speaker 11: speak to him.

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Speaker 5: Does that hinder your thought process on how Dallas could

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Speaker 5: attack this, because it's allowing all these other head coaching

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Speaker 5: vacancies to shore up now, right, the head coaching vacancy

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Speaker 5: started with nine, they filled a couple.

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Speaker 2: Now there's a couple more. Yeah, Buffalo that's open now crazy.

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Speaker 5: So by the time a lot of these head coaches

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Speaker 5: are hired, everybody's caught back up in Dallas. Doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 5: get a head start on talking to guys like Leonard

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Speaker 5: and talking to guys like.

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Speaker 9: Anybody on that list, really, because there are now nine

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Speaker 9: or ten other teams that are trying to do the same.

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Speaker 2: Green Bay's got to hire a defensive coordinator now, so all.

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Speaker 5: Of that to be said, does that hinder it now

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Speaker 5: that you're waiting on a possibility.

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Speaker 3: To try and hire a guy like Leonard?

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Speaker 7: I don't know that it hinders it.

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Speaker 4: I mean you're seeing these guys get, you know, interviews

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Speaker 4: from multiple teams, and rightfully so, Christian Parker, when you

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Speaker 4: talk about these guys and Leonard, he's going to he's

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Speaker 4: right there in the mix with several teams as well.

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Speaker 4: But I think when you look at a guy like

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Speaker 4: Jim Leonard for example, since that's the one we're talking about.

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Speaker 4: I think that based on what he's been able to accomplish,

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Speaker 4: I think that if push comes to absolute shove and

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Speaker 4: you finally have the come to Christ moment and you're like,

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Speaker 4: Jim Leonard's our guy. We just haven't been able to

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Speaker 4: get him in office just yet. But maybe you've had

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Speaker 4: a couple zoom calls, you have his resume, you've had

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Speaker 4: him speak with several of the coaches already. I think

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Speaker 4: you pulled the trigger there if that's your guy, right,

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Speaker 4: So I say that to say, col I don't think

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Speaker 4: that this hinders the process. And keep in mind, we

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Speaker 4: still have we being in the NFL, still have six

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Speaker 4: coaching vacancies. Head coaching vacancies fill out, so that's going

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Speaker 4: to take a few more days.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: They're starting to kind of trickle in Robert Salad to

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Speaker 4: the tight ends, Kenis Stefanski over the weekend, obviously, John

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Speaker 4: Harbaugh to the Giants, but there's still you know, Pittsburgh

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Speaker 4: and several other teams out there as well. So there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of sorting to be done at the NFL level,

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Speaker 4: from head coaching downward through the coordinator so I think

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Speaker 4: the Cowboys have a little bit of time to get

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Speaker 4: this sorted out. But again, if if they absolutely feel

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Speaker 4: after speaking with all of these candidates that Jim Leonard

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Speaker 4: is their guy but they haven't been able to speak

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Speaker 4: with him in person yet, I say pull the trigger.

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Speaker 7: I don't see I said, don't wait for that.

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Speaker 3: One thing that I love from Nick Harris over the weekend,

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Speaker 3: he kind of like laid it all out on Twitter.

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Speaker 3: Just check him out on Twitter. Of course you probably

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Speaker 3: already follow him. But I think it's safe to say

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Speaker 3: that this is by far the most expand search for

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Speaker 3: defensive coordinator in franchise history. We're looking at nine coordinator

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Speaker 3: interviews so far, plus three that are in their second round,

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Speaker 3: and in the past you've had upwards of three to four,

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Speaker 3: so this is quite a difference. This feels like a

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Speaker 3: shoddy move to be able to widen the search, be

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Speaker 3: expansive about it, and really make sure you're picking the.

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Speaker 4: Right guy, and also look at the age range. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: this is a that's further evidence that this is a

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Speaker 4: Brian shot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not all of them have been head coaches.

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Speaker 9: That was my point is we talked about the experience

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Speaker 9: level is different, the age group is different, the schematics

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Speaker 9: of it all are all different, very clearly.

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Speaker 11: And in terms of the weight and like, Okay, are

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Speaker 11: we going to wait for Jim Leonard? I don't think

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Speaker 11: the Cowboys are the only team that are waiting for Jim.

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Speaker 11: I think the Packers are another team that if they

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Speaker 11: get a chance to get him after this week, because

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Speaker 11: I'm sorry, but it probably will be after this week,

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Speaker 11: then I.

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Speaker 6: Think that's.

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Speaker 11: That makes you feel a little bit better maybe about

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Speaker 11: waiting because you just kind of think, Okay, if this

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Speaker 11: guy's the top of the list for several teams, maybe

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Speaker 11: some of the other guys that we still like but

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Speaker 11: maybe not like as much as Jim Leonard are going

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Speaker 11: to be around because they're not going.

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Speaker 6: To get scooped up.

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Speaker 11: But then again, you think about the fact that you

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Speaker 11: have six head coaching openings, and that doesn't mean there's

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Speaker 11: going to be six defensive coordinator openings as well. But

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Speaker 11: there are other defensive coordinator openings just from natural firings

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Speaker 11: and such around the league as well. You know, the

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Speaker 11: Packers being one of those teams. So but in terms

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Speaker 11: of it being an expansive net, it needed to be

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Speaker 11: frankly like, this is this could not be a you know,

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Speaker 11: we know who our guy is going into the interview process.

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Speaker 3: I mean, how long did the Eberflues take? Like a

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Speaker 3: few days?

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Speaker 6: It was.

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Speaker 11: It was pretty clear when Brian Schodheimer was hired that

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Speaker 11: that's the direction they were.

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Speaker 3: Going to go, right, which is.

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Speaker 4: That Josh got you early, I got to get you know.

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Speaker 4: Melvin said, a study long study wrong. Well, the problem

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Speaker 4: is that they didn't study at all last time. So

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Speaker 4: I don't begrudge them for actually studying for a good

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Speaker 4: period of time with so many worthy candidates.

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Speaker 3: So yes, that's the definition of insanity.

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Speaker 4: Repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting

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Speaker 4: different results.

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Speaker 9: I don't know how you could go into a decision

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Speaker 9: this massive and not study and not give it any

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Speaker 9: sort of extra thought. No stone left under means you

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Speaker 9: had one of the top three offenses in the NFL

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Speaker 9: with a franchise quarterback that is on the back half

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Speaker 9: of his career. Whether you look at the age or

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Speaker 9: the play or whatever it is, he's still playing at

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Speaker 9: a prime level, but he is going into his age

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Speaker 9: thirty three season. The fact of the matter is this

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Speaker 9: defensive coordinator higher is going to determine.

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Speaker 5: Whether your window stays open or it's slam shut. That's

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Speaker 5: what this defensive coordinator higher is. So to put in

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Speaker 5: a little extra effort, to put in a little extra

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Speaker 5: due diligence to interview the right candidates and to find

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Speaker 5: the right person. I would rather that than to say, yeah,

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Speaker 5: we like this guy and let's just go aheat and

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Speaker 5: hand pick it and leave from with it.

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Speaker 3: Who's a head coaching.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so this is a massive decision on whether or

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Speaker 5: not the Cowboys are going to be competitive over the

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Speaker 5: next four to five years or not.

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Speaker 11: Especially you've had four in the last four years. I mean,

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Speaker 11: you just can't. You just can't do that. And this

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Speaker 11: offense is so good, especially if you keep George Pickens

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Speaker 11: and you keep Javonte Williams, that you have to expect

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Speaker 11: a lot of the same next year. And I don't

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Speaker 11: see this offense taking a step back. If they do,

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Speaker 11: I don't think it'll be to the point where you

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Speaker 11: can't win games because of it. So, yeah, this is

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Speaker 11: very important. But at the same time, as much as

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Speaker 11: we talk about the coordinator, and that's very important, no

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Speaker 11: doubt they.

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Speaker 6: Need better players, amen, they just do not have the personnel.

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Speaker 2: But you can't necessarily go find your personnel without knowing

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Speaker 2: who your leader is on that side, that's right.

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Speaker 11: But the good news is one you have the other

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Speaker 11: one you have the time to get that because it

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Speaker 11: won't take them to a free agency to do no,

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Speaker 11: I hope not. And two you get two first round

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Speaker 11: picks in the draft. So whether or not you pick

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Speaker 11: those two first rounders or you trade one of them away,

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Speaker 11: they have an opportunity here to build a much better unit,

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Speaker 11: and you know, they have the cap flexibility to create

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Speaker 11: some space to sign some more free agents. They were,

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Speaker 11: you know, I think more aggressive than people thought they

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Speaker 11: would be last year in terms of the number pure

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Speaker 11: number of signings that they made. And now it's about,

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Speaker 11: you know, quality over quantity.

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Speaker 3: I think there was some risk there too, sure with

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Speaker 3: the signings that you had, because they're still sort of

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Speaker 3: in that cap the pie of it all, right, But

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Speaker 3: to your point, it's about making the better decision and

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Speaker 3: finding the right guys and getting the better personnel.

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Speaker 5: Well, and the goal here is not just to win games.

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Speaker 5: Going back to Tommy's point, you can win games with

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Speaker 5: a substantial improvement on defense, but that's not the ultimate goal.

444
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 5: The ultimate goal is to be playing this upcoming weekend,

445
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 5: next year, playing in the NFC title game, have a

446
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 5: chance to go to a Super Bowl. All of those

447
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 5: things are your goal and what you're trying to do

448
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 5: and what you're trying to accomplish. So a complete revamp

449
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 5: on defense is possible, but it's got to start with

450
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,199
Speaker 5: the right leader on that side of the ball. And

451
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 5: so this is the most important thing you've got all season.

452
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,120
Speaker 5: Who's kept it in the ship and you gotta take

453
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,640
Speaker 5: your time kind of figuring that out, all right, speaking

454
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 5: of the defense and speaking of what we thought of

455
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 5: the defense, any other news and the.

456
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 4: News before, no transactions or anything. So just adding those

457
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 4: three candidates to the defensive coordinator pot and we'll see

458
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 4: how that goes.

459
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 2: We'll see if they have one by next Tuesday. Maybe

460
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 2: that would be fun.

461
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 5: When we come back, we're going to continue our grades

462
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 5: or report cards series where we're gonna grade the defensive

463
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,160
Speaker 5: side of the ball. If you missed last week's episode,

464
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,199
Speaker 5: we went all through the offense gave our grades.

465
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 2: This is probably gonna be a little.

466
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,919
Speaker 5: Bit more harsh when it comes to the defensive side

467
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,159
Speaker 5: of the ball. More talking Cowboys right after this.

468
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 3: How's it going? You see that Cowboys game? Oh? I watched.

469
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 7: I've been seeing some good things totally. They have some talent.

470
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 3: You have some great talent, and.

471
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 7: They got some fight hoping.

472
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 3: This is the year me too.

473
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:51,679
Speaker 7: Oh I'm Cody.

474
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,360
Speaker 3: By the way, I'm Travis. Nice to meet you, Travis.

475
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 3: Go Cowboys Go.

476
00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 4: Cowboys make a new friend based solely on their shirt choice.

477
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 3: What would you like the power to do?

478
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 10: Bank of America, the official bank of the Dallas Cowboys,

479
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 10: Copyright twenty twenty five.

480
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 2: Bank of America Corporation. Cowboys fans, We've got big news.

481
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493
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494
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495
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Speaker 3: Job done right.

496
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Speaker 9: We're with you.

497
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Speaker 8: That's our promise to you, because no matter the project

498
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Speaker 8: or the challenge you're facing.

499
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 3: Where are you, where are you?

500
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 10: United at at and T We guarantee our network so

501
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 10: you can talk college football with your bff while taking

502
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Speaker 10: Buster to the vet.

503
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, I can't believiate the whole thing of chicken.

504
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,679
Speaker 10: Wings, and I can't believe we're staging a comeback. Staying

505
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Speaker 10: connected matters. That's why in the rare event of a

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Speaker 10: and exclusions apply. Set dot com slash guarantee for full details.

511
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Speaker 3: To Talking Cowboys.

512
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 5: Back here on Talking Cowboys presented by Black Rifle Coffee Company,

513
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 5: the official coffee of the Dallas Cowboys. This segment is

514
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 5: brought to you by invisi Line, the official smile of

515
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Speaker 5: the Dallas Cowboys.

516
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: That's a sweet cup there, Josh, yeah, you like that.

517
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Speaker 3: It's available in Dallas cows Pro shop, is it.

518
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Speaker 5: I didn't bring it today, but I got a black

519
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Speaker 5: Rifle coffee Mum. It's a yettie with a Cowboys logo almost,

520
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 5: but I'm working on getting it for the whole cruiser. Okay,

521
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 5: I'm working on. I was about to say, man.

522
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 2: I worked an event, and then they were like, here's

523
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 2: the gift.

524
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 5: I was like, well, if you would have known this

525
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 5: ahead of time, I would have asked for five of them.

526
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 2: So that way we have it one forever.

527
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 7: Say a live one on global live streaming.

528
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 5: But that's just because I can clip this and okay

529
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,479
Speaker 5: to them and then trying to get this working out

530
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 5: of direct. Yeah, there's thousands of people watching on dallascowboys

531
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 5: dot Com.

532
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 2: Tens of thousands.

533
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 3: I like that. The millions and millions.

534
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 2: Maybe not a off season, but seriously, no like per year, oh,

535
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 2: per year.

536
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's in the millions.

537
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 9: But we are in January and all right, Kyle, so

538
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 9: it's a little different, but our talking Cowboys family is

539
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 9: who is here?

540
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

541
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 9: All right, let's talk speaking of Let's talk about defensive

542
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 9: season grades. O god, let's start.

543
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 2: Let's start. Let's start positively start positive. Interior defensive line

544
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 2: A plus, A plus.

545
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm go B minus.

546
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: That's the highest grade of anybody.

547
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 5: You've getten so far, better than the quarterback, better than

548
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 5: the wide receivers, better than the running backs, better than

549
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 5: your fair.

550
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: I mean, you're giving it an A plus.

551
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 3: Fair?

552
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: What I know comparably well?

553
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 4: The reason I didn't give the quarterbacks in a plus

554
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 4: was it because of Dak. It was because you don't

555
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 4: know who your backup is, and when you had a

556
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 4: chance to look at your backup, albeit later in the season,

557
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 4: it didn't look great. All right, So I mean Dak

558
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 4: could be an A plus. But then I mean you

559
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 4: got like an F behind him. So, but was the

560
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 4: interior perfect post quinnin? It was sensational and then it

561
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 4: kind of fell, but not because of Quinn.

562
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 7: So you know what that's fair? Let me go with.

563
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 4: Let me go to B plus and I'll say a

564
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 4: B plus looking at the totality of it, being that

565
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 4: Quinn was not here the first half of the season,

566
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 4: when he was not here the first half of the season.

567
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 4: You needed to see more from Osa, who's coming off

568
00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 4: of that big contract extension.

569
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 7: You didn't necessarily see that.

570
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 4: Solomon Thomas, he had a massively hot start, kind of

571
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 4: cooled a little bit though. Now that was a little

572
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 4: bit due to injury as well, so to be fair

573
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 4: to Sally, but it wasn't into and Kenny Clark. Kenny

574
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 4: Clark came on strong following that trade with Michael Parsons.

575
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,479
Speaker 4: So Kenny Clark, I like what he did for the

576
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 4: majority of the season. Had a couple of slow patches,

577
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 4: but for the most part, Kenny Clark was exceptional.

578
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 3: In my book.

579
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 4: You didn't get much of anything from j Toya continues

580
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 4: to develop. He was on the inactive's list the majority

581
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 4: of the season. Perryon Rent Winfree came off IR later

582
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 4: in the season. Didn't really get any reps he got

583
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 4: I think one game activated post IR return, so didn't

584
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 4: really see anything there. So I guess what carries the

585
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 4: grade obviously is quinning post by Kenny Clark all season.

586
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 4: Sally the beginning of the season, Osa during a three

587
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 4: game stretch, nothing from Toya, nothing from Winfree. Out out

588
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 4: landed B plus carried by Quinn and Kenny.

589
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: I'm going with beam because you did have for a

590
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 3: long stretch of the season you had Mazzie Smith as

591
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 3: an inactive player on your roster on game day. To me,

592
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 3: that is good point. I mean, obviously the interior defensive

593
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 3: line was not playing well in those weeks, and that's

594
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: why you needed the help. And of course they wanted

595
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: the help early on. That's why they got Kenny Clark,

596
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: who did a very serviceable job. I'm not saying he

597
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 3: was perfect. I don't even think it was a great

598
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 3: year statistically for him, but I think once you added

599
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 3: quinnin Williams, he was able to shine a little more.

600
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 3: And of course you saw more from Osa as soon

601
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 3: as you got Quinn Williams. Quinn Williams is the barometer

602
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 3: now for your interior defensive line. That's why i'm B minus.

603
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 3: I don't think it was perfect in all stretches, especially

604
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 3: Kenny Clark in that the Panthers game. That was really rough,

605
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 3: but it was just an amalgam of things that were

606
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 3: against you. In that game. It got ran over by

607
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,239
Speaker 3: Ricodoubel over and over and over again, because that was

608
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 3: they were like, oh, this is what we're going to

609
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 3: do and you cannot stop it.

610
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 2: But maybe not even their running back one anymore.

611
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 3: I think there is a different position on this there anymore.

612
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: Maybe defense that was able to really bring down the

613
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 3: score for everybody else, and we'll talk about that here

614
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: in a bit, but be minus for the interior defensive line.

615
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: I like it.

616
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 6: I agree with you minus.

617
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 11: I think personnel wise they're really good, especially now with

618
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 11: Quinn Williams. And you know, I don't think Osa as

619
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 11: a top your top guy is necessarily the best. So

620
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 11: I think now that the Quinn Williams is there, that

621
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 11: certainly will benefit him. Kenny Clark, just being a veteran president,

622
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 11: Salomon Thomas, you hit the nail on the head. I

623
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 11: think as he started out the year really well. I

624
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 11: think he was one of the better run defenders in

625
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 11: the on the defensive tackle room throughout the entire year.

626
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 11: But you know, I don't think they generated as much

627
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 11: interior pressure as we thought they would. I don't think

628
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 11: that they towards the back half of the season played

629
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 11: the run as well as they did when Quinn Williams

630
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 11: got traded. And I think that some of that is

631
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 11: because of the fact that the next levels of the

632
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 11: defense didn't necessarily do their jobs very well. But I

633
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 11: think that their their personnel is there in terms in

634
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 11: when it comes to being able to have success in

635
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 11: the future. Now it's just kind of building around it.

636
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 5: So yeah, be minus for me, I'm probably splitting the difference.

637
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 5: I'd say be the same reasons. Y'all just outlined. You

638
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 5: made a trade for one of the top players at

639
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 5: the position in the Micah Parsons trade. Kenny Clark probably

640
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 5: a top fifteen, top ten defensive tackle in football right now,

641
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 5: played that way for much of the year.

642
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 2: But was he perfect? No still room to grow, still

643
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: room to dive in.

644
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: And I mean it was all at him at a

645
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 3: certain point.

646
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 5: Exactly like he was the best player on your team

647
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 5: at the first part first half season. Yeah, then you

648
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 5: turn around, you pay, you make a trade for a

649
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 5: better player at the position in Quentinn Williams. But you

650
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 5: needed to make that trade initially in the first place,

651
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 5: so it wasn't perfect to begin with, and even post

652
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 5: Quentin Williams it wasn't perfect afterwards. But I still think

653
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 5: a B is very fair now compared to what it

654
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 5: was previously.

655
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 2: I don't think there's.

656
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 5: Another position that made a monumental MP the same way

657
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 5: that that one. Actually, I know there isn't because even

658
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 5: you look at the other improvements wide receiver vast improvement

659
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 5: from last year, running back vast improvement from last year,

660
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 5: there's nothing quite like the jump the defensive tackle took,

661
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 5: and it took two major trades to get it done.

662
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 5: But you're set up and that's the core of your

663
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 5: defense moving forward, so be as good.

664
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 3: It sets up your future as well room to grow.

665
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: I think Osa could probably be better.

666
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 5: We'll see what Solomon Thomas does this offseason and how

667
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 5: if he's back and where he goes and that kind

668
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 5: of thing.

669
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: I think there's room to improve there behind.

670
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 5: Those two guys, But just having those two guys is

671
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 5: a huge piece moving forward now.

672
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: Defensive end moving over a little bit to the edge

673
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: rusher spot. Tommy, I'll let you start this one. Good

674
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: radio here, d Wow, Okay.

675
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 6: Let's maybe deep less it best.

676
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 11: I mean, Javian Clowney at the end of the year

677
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 11: was sensational in terms of, you know, where his expectations were.

678
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 6: You just kind of wanted them to be.

679
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 11: A veteran president, and then he comes out and he's

680
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 11: your best pass rusher at the end of the year.

681
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 11: That should not be the case. All due respected to

682
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 11: Davian Clowney. He's a fantastic player. He's unbelievable as an

683
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 11: athlete to be able to still do the things that

684
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 11: he does so well this long and new his tenure

685
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 11: in the league is remarkable and all the power to him,

686
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 11: and the Cowboys should try to.

687
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 6: Bring him back this season. But you know, you spent

688
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 6: a second round.

689
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 11: Pick on donovanz Roku, who was a monster pass rusher

690
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 11: at Boston College, led the country in sacks, and he

691
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 11: ends up being a better run defender than he was

692
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 11: a pass rusher in his first year. That skill hasn't

693
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 11: gone anywhere. He hasn't forgotten how to rush the passer.

694
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 11: Is there a part of it that you need to

695
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 11: learn how to rush in the NFL? Sure, But you

696
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 11: know he should have been getting after the quarterback more

697
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 11: and being taught to get after the quarterback more. I

698
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 11: think with the right coaching going forward, and I think

699
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 11: Aaron whity Common does a good job and I think

700
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 11: he'll continue to do a good job, but with maybe

701
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 11: a new voice in terms of defensive coordinator and new

702
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 11: ways to scheme up pressure and get home on the quarterback.

703
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 6: I think he can take the next step.

704
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 11: Aside from that, you know, James Houston was really cool

705
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 11: for a while. He was a great story, you know,

706
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 11: showing up on the second day of training camp and

707
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 11: led the team in sacks for a majority of the season.

708
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 11: But you can't you can't bank on that going forward.

709
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 11: If those three guys are the guys that we're talking

710
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 11: about here and saying, yeah, there's our pass rush unit, Yeah,

711
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 11: you're You're not gonna have a lot of success defensively.

712
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 11: I think it starts with making the quarterback uncomfortable. We

713
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 11: were talking about Indiana earlier. You want to know why

714
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 11: Indiana didn't just roll over Miami yesterday like they had

715
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 11: the rest of the college football playoffs because Miami was

716
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 11: getting pressure on Bernano Mendoza. That's how you win football

717
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 11: games on defense. If you can affect the quarterback, if

718
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 11: you can make them uncomfortable, it makes everybody's jobs easier

719
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 11: in the linebacker room and the secondary. And the Cowboys

720
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 11: did not have a great pass rush this year, and

721
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 11: that's why we're sitting here.

722
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 3: I'm yours was c or d he said D plus

723
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 3: D plus. I'm going C minus for all the reasons

724
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 3: you just said. I mean, of course, j Davin Clowney

725
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 3: was the best pass prussure that you had. I was

726
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 3: disappointed with the performance of Dante Fowler throughout the season.

727
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: He talked about, you know, dealing with injuries throughout, but

728
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 3: I just don't think that that was necessarily what you

729
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: banked on whenever you signed him for the one year deal.

730
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 3: And then on top of that, as Araku, I expected

731
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: more of a pass rush from him. Granted, you guys

732
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 3: are talking a lot about his run defense, which was,

733
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 3: you know, fine, I guess, but I didn't see the

734
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 3: big playability from Aseraku. I hope that changes. I hope

735
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 3: with a new defensive coordinator that you were able to

736
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 3: find more of a consistency there with his pass rush

737
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 3: the moves that he makes. But this season for me

738
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: was really disappointing. For Azraku and the rest of the

739
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 3: defensive end.

740
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 7: D minus minus almost failing.

741
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

742
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 4: The only reason, well one of the only reasons obviously

743
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 4: that it's not an F is because Jadeveon Clooney. I mean,

744
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 4: like Tommy said so eloquently, I mean he's a freakish athlete,

745
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 4: even at you know, in his early thirties. I mean

746
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 4: the fact that you can come in with no training

747
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 4: camp off of the couch. Yeah, he had a slow

748
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 4: start because he had to knock some rust off, but man,

749
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 4: when he.

750
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 3: Got going, did he every November December on?

751
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 7: Just unbelievable.

752
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 4: And he wants to sign early with a team so

753
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 4: that he can get a full offseason program. So there

754
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 4: you go, Cowboys, make it happen. But I'm also with

755
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 4: Tommy on the aspect of we I think we all

756
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 4: agree to David on Clowney needs to be back in

757
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 4: the building. But it's also true that he cannot be

758
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 4: the guy leading the charge like he simply can't be,

759
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 4: because if he is, then that means no knock to him.

760
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 4: That means that you have question marks elsewhere. And that's

761
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 4: where those question marks get you out of D minus

762
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 4: coming out of twenty twenty five. You said it, Donovanzroku

763
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 4: ceiling is unbelievably high. Now, whether you put that on

764
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 4: him and or Matt Eberflus and trying to, you know,

765
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 4: fit him into the DeMarcus Lawrence mode versus the DeMarcus

766
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 4: where Molde after you, you know, lose DeMarcus Lawrence, who knows,

767
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 4: whatever the case may be. What we do know is

768
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 4: that Donovan is rocu. He flashed on some occasions, but

769
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 4: he didn't develop as quickly last year as we thought

770
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 4: he would coming off of a nation leading record setting

771
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 4: sack season that he had at Boston College. So you

772
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 4: need a lot more from Ezrak who James Houston was

773
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 4: great in spots. Struggled against the run though, which is

774
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 4: why he struggled to get on the field and stay

775
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 4: on the field when he came to coaching decisions. Right,

776
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 4: So James Houston, I give him a bee because this

777
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 4: is a guy who was brought in off the couch

778
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 4: and a lot of people thought he was just a campbody.

779
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 7: He proved he was much more than that.

780
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 4: He made plays in more than one game, okay, in

781
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 4: more than one fashion, Jenevion Clowney covers. Outside of those

782
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 4: two guys, the majority of the pressure came from the

783
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 4: interior of your defensive line.

784
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 7: Sam Williams was in a contract year.

785
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know that. What'd you get there?

786
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 7: Right?

787
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 4: Dante Fowler contract year because of one year proven deal

788
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 4: coming off of a career best season with Dan Quinn

789
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 4: and the Washington Commanders. You thought you were getting that

790
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 4: Dante Fowler you be an injury or coaching and or coaching,

791
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 4: you got a shell of that version of Dante Fowler.

792
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 4: You have Jadeveon Clowney A plus yep, you got Donovanzraku.

793
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 7: A plus late, A plus late.

794
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 4: You got Donovanzroku as a C, James Houston as a

795
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 4: B and the rest is f FF. So when you

796
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 4: got that many, you know f's for me. It just

797
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 4: drags it all the way down to a deep.

798
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 3: Too many to give.

799
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 5: It's the cumulatives GPA average, Right, It's like what the

800
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 5: schools all trying for sure get going on.

801
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 3: And also to kind of reiterate that point to again

802
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 3: about Dante Fowler. He criticized, you know, and not so

803
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 3: in certain terms the defensive coordinator and not being able

804
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,959
Speaker 3: to have certain plays that fit the personnel better.

805
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 7: Listen.

806
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 4: The bottom line is when Quinn Williams is traded from

807
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 4: the Jets to your team mid season and immediately over

808
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 4: the first two or three stretches of games, has through

809
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 4: that stretch of games has the most secks of anyone

810
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 4: on your defensive line. This is your defensive tackle that

811
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 4: just got here, doesn't know the playbook, doesn't know the scheme,

812
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 4: and he's the one generating the most pressure. That's credit

813
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 4: to Quentin for being able to do so. But when

814
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 4: you look at the Dees, that is unacceptable.

815
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, would you guys believe me? Actually let me let

816
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 2: me phrase it this way.

817
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 5: Which one do you feel like was a lower ranking

818
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 5: among the thirty two NFL teams for Dallas? Was it

819
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 5: quarterback pressure percentage or was it sack percentage?

820
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 7: Sack percentage?

821
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: You think it was a lower lower overall?

822
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 9: Do you do you agree or do you just what

823
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 9: was the first option? Pressures, pressure percentage or sack percentage?

824
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 3: A lower sack percentage?

825
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 2: Out agree?

826
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 9: Sack percentage it was twenty sixth in the NFL out

827
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 9: of thirty two teams.

828
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 5: Sack percentage. The pressure rate was sixteenth in the NFL.

829
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 5: So you did get pressure at times, but a lot

830
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 5: of and you mentioned it the key there it was

831
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 5: on the interior, but you got to be able to finish,

832
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 5: and that's where your edge rushers come in, and that's

833
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 5: where you lacked. So I think the stats and the

834
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 5: analytics kind of backed that up a little bit. We

835
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 5: got to move on because we got linebackers, corners, safeties

836
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,439
Speaker 5: on the other side of the break, and we're gonna

837
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 5: have to roll through these pretty quickly. Here more talking

838
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 5: Cowboys right after this.

839
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,080
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Speaker 5: Code Cowboy.

884
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: He's vp.

885
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 3: To Talking Cowboys.

886
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 5: Back here on Talking Cowboys with Patrick Walker, josh Rod

887
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 5: Reguaz I almost said Isaiah stand back, but filling in

888
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 5: for from Tommy Yarish Chris Beam in the back of

889
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 5: Kyle Yellmans. All right, let's go to linebackers here. This

890
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 5: should be pretty consensus. This is not gonna be a

891
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 5: high grade, right pat If Okay, do you really need

892
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 5: to give a ton of explanation on.

893
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 4: The The only only promising aspect was tomorrow and overshowan

894
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 4: return to the field and.

895
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 2: He's gonna have a healthy offseason.

896
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 7: He's this offseason. He's back.

897
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 4: But I mean didn't get much from merist, not entirely

898
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 4: on merit coaching. More than anything, the Jack Sambourne experiment.

899
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 4: He held onto that far too long. Kenneth Murray experiment

900
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 4: held onto that far too long. The Logan Wilson trade

901
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 4: didn't pan out, and it goes on from there. I

902
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 4: like Samar James. I like his potential. Uh he flashed

903
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 4: in a couple of more than a couple of situations,

904
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 4: but then he showed some rookie growing pains as well.

905
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 4: I like the upside o Shamara James. I need to

906
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 4: see marisliafoul unleashed in the year three as he was

907
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 4: in year one, and marvinovshown is on the upswing with

908
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 4: you know, being back from injury. But as far as

909
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 4: the twenty twenty five season as a whole, the linebacker

910
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 4: corps was an F for me.

911
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 3: F and the F stands for fundamentally bad. The biggest

912
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 3: and most immediate issue that you have is linebacker coverage.

913
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 3: You had. I mean there were at times solid tackling

914
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 3: ten twenty yards down the field. But that's why for me,

915
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 3: at least draft wise, free agency wise, that's your most

916
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 3: urgent and need over defensive end, over safety, over cornerback.

917
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 3: One thing Matt Orflus had right is that you can

918
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 3: scheme pressure, but you cannot scheme around linebackers who can't cover.

919
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 3: Fixing linebacker, find you some dogs in free agency add

920
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 3: one stabilizing coverage safety. In my opinion, I think you're

921
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 3: gonna see an identity change for the Dallas Cowboys defense.

922
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 3: But linebacker was Achilles Hill all season long. Isn't that

923
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: bad dog?

924
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 7: In the drafted linebackers.

925
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 3: Maybe C J. Allen possibly or free agency, I don't care.

926
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 2: Styles go get a solidified either one.

927
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 5: Of those guys in the first round. I think I'd

928
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 5: be all good. Yeah, Apony Hill.

929
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 11: Junior University of Texas is z minus A grade? Can

930
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 11: can that become one? Was that the lowest one?

931
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 2: Or that was only when Zimmer was here?

932
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 11: Because why minus f minus?

933
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 7: Yeah?

934
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 6: It was bad, man Eber, it was. It was really bad.

935
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 2: Alright, that's probably me.

936
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 13: Wow.

937
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 6: I'll give Matt credit for this.

938
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 11: Over the course of his career, he has done a

939
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 11: really good job of developing linebacks except for here.

940
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 6: I don't know what it was about here.

941
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 11: Maybe it's personnel, maybe it was something different, but for

942
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 11: whatever reason, it did not work here.

943
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 6: But he does have a good track record of that.

944
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 11: He was a linebacker Stokes here, linebacker here. He did

945
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 11: that in Indianapolis, he did that in Chicago. Chicago has

946
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 11: some really good linebackers, but for whatever reason, it didn't

947
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 11: work here. The most jarring thing for me, especially in

948
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 11: the run game, was so many times we would see

949
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 11: these linebackers engage in blocks and not give any effort

950
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 11: to get off of them. It was like, as soon

951
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 11: as they got into block, it was like.

952
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 6: I'm in nothing I can do. Yeah, he tagged me,

953
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 6: see you, Jamir Gibbs.

954
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,240
Speaker 11: It's like no, It's like you can get off the block,

955
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 11: you can go towards the ball and try to make

956
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 11: a play. And sometimes it just seemed like they were

957
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 11: they were disinterested, and you know, I don't want to

958
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 11: call anybody out here. Obviously these guys are NFL players.

959
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 11: You never questioned effort, but it just seemed like they

960
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 11: they for whatever reason, wouldn't want to get off blocks.

961
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 6: And it's gonna be tough.

962
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 11: You know, Marius leaval for what he did in his

963
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 11: last year at points when they turn him into a

964
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 11: blitzer and he was really good, you didn't see as

965
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 11: much as that this year. Samar James, I mean, he

966
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 11: made some plays here and there, but is that's somebody

967
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 11: that you're going to bank on long term.

968
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 6: For the future.

969
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 11: So this is an area that the Cowboys definitely need

970
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 11: to look at in free agency and through the draft.

971
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 11: And that's why, you know, one of the conversations in

972
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 11: the draft show we've been talking about so much is

973
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 11: linebacker and the sunny styles from Ohio.

974
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 2: State j linebackers in this class from.

975
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 11: Georgia, Anthony Hill junior from Texas. So it's a position

976
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 11: that you know, not only not only do you need

977
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 11: to throw bodies at it, but you need to throw

978
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 11: bodies that can get the job done here for you.

979
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 11: And then the Logan Wilson trade too. I don't think

980
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 11: Logan Wilson's a bad player. I just don't think he

981
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,959
Speaker 11: can run like he used Well they threw him into

982
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 11: the fold immediately.

983
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 2: And said get after it. And then you're like, you

984
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 2: didn't get out of there, sandboard, you get out it.

985
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 5: Was It just all didn't make any sense. And yeah,

986
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 5: I'm giving an after linebackers.

987
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: And it's funny.

988
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 5: I had a conversation with a good friend of mine

989
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 5: that works in collegiate athletics and he grew up in Indianapolis,

990
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 5: was a huge Colt fan, And it was right after

991
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 5: the news broke and I was talking with him. He said, yeah,

992
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 5: like I could have seen that coming, because even at

993
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 5: the end of his tenure in Indian Apples and people

994
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 5: forget this, He's like, there was talks that he would

995
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 5: not be brought back as the defensive coordinator Indianapolis and

996
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 5: he failed upward and ended up taking the head coaching

997
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 5: job with Chicago, And I was like, this would have

998
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 5: been a great conversation to have last off season when

999
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 5: he was hired.

1000
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 2: Why didn't we have this conversation then? And he kind

1001
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 2: of chuckled about it.

1002
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 5: But it ended up working out the way that it did,

1003
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 5: especially a linebacker, where you anticipated development, you anticipated steps forward,

1004
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 5: and you didn't get it. And that was what I

1005
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 5: think was most disappointing in terms of the downfall for

1006
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 5: ibra Flus's tenure here in the one season is your

1007
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 5: linebackers were not good, and that was supposed to be

1008
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 5: the one area of expertise that was supposed to be good.

1009
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 3: Now arguably horrendous.

1010
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: It was awful f all away. Now the big thing

1011
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: here is we are running out of time.

1012
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 5: I'm going to combine corners and safeties into just secondary grade.

1013
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 5: You guys are professionals. We gotta get these grades out there.

1014
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 5: I'm going to let you start here, Pat, what you got?

1015
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, okay, let me say this because I was

1016
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 3: watching Seattle and I was watching ten over the weekend

1017
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 3: and just looking at their safeties, particularly because I was

1018
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 3: so high up on drafting a safety in the first round.

1019
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: It's not that the safeties are bad here in Dallas.

1020
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 3: I just think that they weren't used as just that

1021
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 3: they weren't used as safety. Seattle safeties shined and limited

1022
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 3: opportunities because their linebackers closed windows. Early. Denver safeties had

1023
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 3: strong coverage grades throughout the season because throws never went

1024
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 3: down the middle against them. They didn't have that luxury

1025
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 3: because guess what, guys, linebackers were pretty darn good for

1026
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 3: both of those teams. Yeah you could. You didn't have

1027
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 3: those easy throws over the middle for me. Safeties wise,

1028
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 3: f but I think it's because of the way they

1029
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 3: were implemented throughout the season. Cornerbacks see minus okay minus who.

1030
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 3: I think you have room to grow with your cornerback room.

1031
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 3: I really do safeties.

1032
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 4: He lost one, ya to my grains, you had a

1033
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 4: lot of injury there. Lee Cooker before the injury did

1034
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,280
Speaker 4: not look like himself. He looked like himself after the injury,

1035
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 4: but then it cooled down towards the light a few games.

1036
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 4: M Harky spell has some play. I don't know, safeties,

1037
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 4: I'm going to give a C minus. Overall, you wanted more.

1038
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 4: There weren't terrible, weren't great cornerbacks. Ready Steward showed some things.

1039
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 4: Keep Ready Steward in the building to Ron Bland injured again,

1040
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 4: Trevon Diggs fiasco, blah blah blah. It's the cornerbacks outside

1041
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 4: of Ready Steward is an F. For me, it's an F.

1042
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 4: So I mean you roll those two together, what I

1043
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 4: give a ceed to the C minus to the safeties

1044
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 4: F so I land on a D for the secondary.

1045
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 2: And even when it comes to.

1046
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 5: Stewart, I mean, how I know he played significantly, but

1047
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 5: how much of an impact did he do to bring

1048
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 5: that grade?

1049
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm just highlighting him as far as saying

1050
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 4: that he shows some promise enough to keep him on

1051
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 4: the team, but not to the point where he was

1052
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 4: able to carry that grade from an F to a

1053
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 4: higher grade from the cornerbacks perspective. So F for cornerbacks

1054
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 4: for me, C for the safeties, I land right on

1055
00:46:59,760 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 4: a D.

1056
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 3: Literally opposite there.

1057
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 11: Uh yeah, if we're just doing the entire secondary, I'll

1058
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 11: give it an F. Russell Wilson, JJ McCarthy, Josh Johnson.

1059
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 11: I mean, if you're letting these guys throw for some

1060
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 11: of their best career days on you, it's just not

1061
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 11: a good year, man, It's really not. I agree with Patrick.

1062
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 11: I thought Ready Stewart was a pleasant surprise this year.

1063
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 11: He was, He was better than I expected him to be.

1064
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 11: Deron Bland injury is just brutal. You know, hopefully he

1065
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 11: gets he's able to recover in time to have some

1066
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 11: of an off season and get to training camp fully

1067
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 11: healthy and be able to.

1068
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 6: Get back physically there.

1069
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 11: Obviously, the foot is really scary for you know, players

1070
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 11: of that position and especially guys need to cut and

1071
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 11: shift so much.

1072
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 6: And then Savone revel what.

1073
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 3: I know, I'm just messing with that.

1074
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 6: Okay, you at all thought I had a pause moment.

1075
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 11: No, you know, the bright spot for me looking ahead

1076
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 11: for this corner room and the secondary is Savone reveel

1077
00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 11: that that knee brace was.

1078
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 6: Really bugging them all year.

1079
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 11: And you know, credit the kid for going out there

1080
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 11: and giving it effort to go and play, but he

1081
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 11: needs to get healthy this offseason. He needs to get

1082
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 11: that brace off of him because you can tell that

1083
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 11: it just hinders his movement and he's a step late,

1084
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 11: or he doesn't have the same burst that he did

1085
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 11: on his table.

1086
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 6: He's Carolina.

1087
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 11: I think this kid's gonna be a really good player

1088
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 11: for Dallas a secondary, but he needs to get that

1089
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 11: brace off first. He's gonna have a healthy off season

1090
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 11: for the first time in a while.

1091
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:23,479
Speaker 6: Which is good.

1092
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 11: But you know, your safeties, I agree with Josh. I

1093
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 11: don't think they were utilized the right way all the time.

1094
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 11: You know, when you've got Donovan Wilson in single high

1095
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 11: safety multiple times, that's.

1096
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 7: Just not right.

1097
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 11: And that's not going after Donovan Wilson. That's just not

1098
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 11: his that's not his thing.

1099
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 3: That is fundamentally not a good idea.

1100
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 11: No, that's a terrible idea, and sure enough everybody would

1101
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 11: pick on it. And then Malie Cooker when he was healthy,

1102
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 11: he was serviceable for you. I think he's got that

1103
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 11: veteran presence. I don't think he's a negative player for you.

1104
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 11: He's not a difference maker for you. And Janya Thomas,

1105
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 11: I don't think he's a bad player either, but I

1106
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 11: don't think he's a difference maker for you, and at

1107
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 11: the safety position in the NFL. Now, I think you

1108
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 11: do need a difference maker to win in the secondary

1109
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 11: in general, you just need difference makers. Look at like

1110
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 11: you guys mentioned Seattle, So yeah, it gets.

1111
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 3: A get you a true coverage safety.

1112
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 4: Bobby and Chat made a point that I was sitting

1113
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 4: here thinking while Tommy was was regaling us with just

1114
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 4: beautiful takes.

1115
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 7: He was regaling good job.

1116
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 2: Man, I've got a beautiful brother.

1117
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 3: This guy, I'm hanging up. He's awesome.

1118
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 4: He's sitting here thinking, and I think we can all

1119
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 4: agree it looks like not only with the brace, but

1120
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,800
Speaker 4: it just does not look like savone Revel is mentally

1121
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 4: confident in that knee.

1122
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 7: Yet it feels like.

1123
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 4: He's overthinking, and it feels like he's over compensating in

1124
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 4: his movements. Feel it feels as if that he's still

1125
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 4: slightly concerned. So I'm glad to see that he will

1126
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 4: get a full off season to get healthy and get

1127
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 4: that confidence built, because his first off season with the

1128
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 4: Cowboys was built in rehab. Right, So we'll see. But

1129
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 4: at this point, I agree with Bobby. I don't think

1130
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 4: he's confident in it yet.

1131
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 6: And I think it's because of the brace.

1132
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1133
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 11: I mean, how many times the season did we see

1134
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 11: him get taken out of the game him to adjust

1135
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 11: it and fix it and you know, maneuver it around.

1136
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1137
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 6: I hate in practice.

1138
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 5: I hate that it's an excuse, but it's it's part

1139
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 5: of yours. It's an extension of your game, an extension

1140
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 5: of your body for a certain player. He didn't you,

1141
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 5: you can't do it.

1142
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 6: You have a training camp either.

1143
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 3: Yeah. He was thrown into the fire early on.

1144
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 11: So basically savone revel was okay. The last person he

1145
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 11: guarded was I don't know, a Marshall wide receiver. It

1146
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 11: was Appalachian stated, and then it's congratulations, you're going up

1147
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 11: against Ceede Lamb and George Pickens. In practice, what I

1148
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 11: mean talk about baptism by fire like that. That's that's

1149
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 11: a lot to do one knee from a rookie on

1150
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 11: one knee.

1151
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 2: Good after dude.

1152
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think he will show some really

1153
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 4: good things in twenty twenty six. It was just a

1154
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 4: rough go with the rehab and who he had to

1155
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 4: kind of hit the ground run and then the knee brace,

1156
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 4: and he's just not mentally there right now, so full

1157
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 4: off season savone Rebel signed me up for him being

1158
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 4: a starter in twenty six.

1159
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 2: There you go.

1160
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 5: All right, that doesn't for us here on Talking Cowboys.

1161
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 5: Hope you had fun today? Was F Yeah for secondary?

1162
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, no, I needed.

1163
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: Glad you asked me yes, F for secondary. Across the board,

1164
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 2: it just wasn't good. All right. That is it for

1165
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 2: us here on Talking Cowboys.

1166
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 5: Next week we're gonna spend all forty five minutes talking

1167
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 5: about how Josh won the Pickham segments this year.

1168
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 2: He's gonna have episode to be able to brag about that.

1169
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 5: Also, congrats. We do like celebrating everybody's achievements on this show.

1170
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 5: Your movie podcast was voted a best podcast of a

1171
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 5: profitable media.

1172
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 3: Source absolutely discover Pods. Check it out. There's a movie

1173
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 3: podcast that I'm on. I will not say it on

1174
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 3: Cowboys Airways, but uh follow me check it out.

1175
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's good to the bottom line is there's just

1176
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 7: there's too many movies.

1177
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:39,879
Speaker 3: I mean that's what people say.

1178
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 2: There are definitely too many movies. All right, That does

1179
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 2: it for us.

1180
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 5: See you later for Patrick No c Walker, for Josh

1181
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 5: roderig Getz Tommy Rish, Chris Beam in the back. I'm

1182
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 5: Kyle Yoman saying so long from Talking Cowboys, will see

1183
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 5: you next week.

1184
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: This has been a production of dallascowboys dot Com and

1185
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.