1
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My

2
00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,560
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind.

3
00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,239
Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and

4
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,880
Speaker 1: we're back with part three of our series about the

5
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,200
Speaker 1: idea of fun and now. In previous parts of the series,

6
00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 1: which if you haven't listened to them yet, you should

7
00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,080
Speaker 1: go check those out first. Um, we talked about trying

8
00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,080
Speaker 1: to define the somewhat elusive concept of fun and discover

9
00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,080
Speaker 1: how exactly it is different in form from related ideas

10
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,839
Speaker 1: like pleasure, entertainment, enjoyment. We talked about some research on

11
00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,880
Speaker 1: the role of fun in child development and how that

12
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,880
Speaker 1: might fit into a constructivist model of how how a

13
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 1: child builds knowledge about cause and effect relationships in the world.

14
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,760
Speaker 1: We talked about fun and imagination, play and children, and

15
00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,640
Speaker 1: we're back to explore a few other avenues of fun today.

16
00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,360
Speaker 1: That's right, the fun train continues, and I thought an

17
00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 1: interesting place to to start this episode off might be

18
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,039
Speaker 1: to go back and uh touch on something that we

19
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,319
Speaker 1: we hadn't really discussed in detail, and that is that

20
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 1: for the majority of human history, no one had any fun,

21
00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,040
Speaker 1: and a very large percentage of the global population isn't

22
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,640
Speaker 1: having fun today because fun is just an English word

23
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 1: and one that we've only been kicking around according to

24
00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 1: Donald Hedrick since the late seventeenth century. Okay, so presumably

25
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,640
Speaker 1: people were having something uh like fun before the word fun,

26
00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,680
Speaker 1: and people in cultures without the English word fund or

27
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 1: having equivalent experiences, but they might call it something different,

28
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 1: and maybe calling it something different causes different sort of

29
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,520
Speaker 1: associative groupings with other words and other concepts. Right, this

30
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,800
Speaker 1: is one of This is the thing, right, This is

31
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,640
Speaker 1: when you have a word like fun, what connotations does

32
00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 1: it have within a given language, within a given culture,

33
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,040
Speaker 1: and does that to what extent does that translate out

34
00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,160
Speaker 1: into other cultures? So uh, and ultimately that's going to

35
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,400
Speaker 1: be kind of an open question here. But to get

36
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,800
Speaker 1: down a little bit too, um to how we use

37
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 1: fun and what fun means and where the word comes from. Um.

38
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,480
Speaker 1: I was reading an interesting paper from nineteen seventy two

39
00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 1: titled Degree Words. Uh, well, it's the book actually not

40
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,680
Speaker 1: not an article by American linguist Dwight to Bollinger just

41
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,600
Speaker 1: who describes fun as a noun that had been fully

42
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,880
Speaker 1: adjectivized by quote. The younger set again, he's writing, I

43
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:30,359
Speaker 1: think the book came out on seventy two, and these

44
00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,680
Speaker 1: may have been writings that were, uh, there were a

45
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 1: little bit earlier, so you can roughly think, you know,

46
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,440
Speaker 1: middle twentieth century on this. That's interesting. So he's saying

47
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,120
Speaker 1: definitely that fund as a noun goes back farther than

48
00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,280
Speaker 1: fun as an adjective. Right, and so for some quick

49
00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 1: examples of this um the use of a noun fun,

50
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,239
Speaker 1: you might say, if you were to use the Simpsons quote,

51
00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 1: this is the largest car I could afford. Should I

52
00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:00,840
Speaker 1: therefore be made the subject of fun? I guess? Or

53
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,600
Speaker 1: here's the here's here's a simpler use of the noun.

54
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,240
Speaker 1: Are we having fun yet? If you ask that question

55
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,919
Speaker 1: the answer is no and then adjective use uh. It

56
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,000
Speaker 1: could be an example. Here's another Simpsons quote. I don't

57
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 1: remember this episode specifically, but can't you just bat that

58
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,280
Speaker 1: all the horses have a fun time? I don't recall

59
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,160
Speaker 1: what episode that's from. I don't know. It's just looking

60
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,960
Speaker 1: for I had to find another Simpsons quote with the

61
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,119
Speaker 1: word fun. Okay, but the fun there is an adjective.

62
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:31,160
Speaker 1: It is describing the quality of the time they had, right,

63
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,960
Speaker 1: or another example of adjective use would be something that

64
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,560
Speaker 1: we discussed in the first episode, the movie was fun. Okay, Yeah,

65
00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,640
Speaker 1: So you can imagine two slightly different sentences that mostly

66
00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,320
Speaker 1: mean the same thing, but with subtle differences. You could

67
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,720
Speaker 1: say I had fun at the movie. That's uh, that's

68
00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,720
Speaker 1: a now, and you're saying fun is some kind of substance,

69
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,600
Speaker 1: and you experience that substance or you part partook of

70
00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,320
Speaker 1: that substance while watching the movie. The movie was fun

71
00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,520
Speaker 1: is an adjective describing something about out the experience, right,

72
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,400
Speaker 1: And so Bolinger points out that in this fun becomes

73
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 1: an enhancer as well as I guess you know, we're

74
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,080
Speaker 1: talking about what does it mean when you say a

75
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:10,920
Speaker 1: movie when someone asking if the movie was good and

76
00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,040
Speaker 1: you say it was fun. In that case, it it's

77
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 1: sort of like a limitter as well. You can say

78
00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,960
Speaker 1: like it was it was up to a certain point,

79
00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:23,400
Speaker 1: to a certain threshold. Interestingly, though, it's the oldest usages

80
00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,680
Speaker 1: of fun seemed to be the use of fun as

81
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,680
Speaker 1: a verb. So an example of this would be this,

82
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,560
Speaker 1: this is something when they encounter in certain books, uh

83
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,400
Speaker 1: and works. So I kind of associate this kind of

84
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 1: phrase with like sort of hay seed fiction. Uh, you

85
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,440
Speaker 1: might see someone say, well, we we were just funning you,

86
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:47,600
Speaker 1: We was just funning you. I'm just fooling yeah. And

87
00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,440
Speaker 1: while then there's gonna be a close connection there. Uh.

88
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,000
Speaker 1: And while this verb form isn't really used today for

89
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,640
Speaker 1: the most part, or certainly not the most popular use,

90
00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,799
Speaker 1: the most widely used version of fun, we still see

91
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 1: examples of this preserved and phrases like to make fun

92
00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 1: off right. So there it's the noun. But I think

93
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,159
Speaker 1: that means the same thing as funding you or making

94
00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,800
Speaker 1: fun of you. Yes, well, actually no, I wonder I

95
00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,520
Speaker 1: mean funny you seems to maybe broader. That could mean

96
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,479
Speaker 1: making fun of but it could also mean sort of

97
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 1: just playing with you. Yeah. I guess it's a context

98
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,600
Speaker 1: dependent right. I was reading about all of this in

99
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,560
Speaker 1: a book titled The Painted Word, A treasure Chest of

100
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,200
Speaker 1: Remarkable Words in their Origins by Phil cousinu and it

101
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,799
Speaker 1: tracks the original verb fun back to the sixteen eighties,

102
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 1: and he writes that the exact origin of the word

103
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,479
Speaker 1: is uncertain. However, it might be a variant of the

104
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 1: Middle European word fun in which means bifool. He also

105
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,840
Speaker 1: points out that eighteenth century lexicographer Samuel Johnson considered fun

106
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 1: a quote low cant word and uh. And he also

107
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,760
Speaker 1: points out the out the here points out that funny

108
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,800
Speaker 1: money also pins some of the original usage of the

109
00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,120
Speaker 1: of the verb funny fooling to be fool. Okay, so

110
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 1: maybe if you trace it back to its origins, it's

111
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 1: it's possible that it doesn't just mean having a good time.

112
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:18,400
Speaker 1: It means something more with the connotations of trickery or

113
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,919
Speaker 1: or guile or something. Yeah, that's what that seems to

114
00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 1: be the case. Now that's this This gets into a

115
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,360
Speaker 1: whole complicated area though, right, like, do the origins of words,

116
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,520
Speaker 1: you know, unknown origins especially, do they still resonate to

117
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,839
Speaker 1: any degree within a given cultural linguistic system. But the

118
00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:37,760
Speaker 1: way when you look at it, it does seem like

119
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:43,480
Speaker 1: the origins of fun may indeed lie in foolishness and uh,

120
00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,680
Speaker 1: in in this in this kind of mischief that is

121
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,800
Speaker 1: at the expense of something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so

122
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 1: one can't help. But but wonder, you know, we're just

123
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,400
Speaker 1: we're talking, for instance, about movies. If a movie is fun,

124
00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 1: that means it can't be great. And is that wonder

125
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,760
Speaker 1: if that has any connection with this idea that fun

126
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,440
Speaker 1: itself is something that has done, uh that is enjoyed

127
00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,440
Speaker 1: that or or encountered at the expense of something more important. Well,

128
00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 1: it makes me think about how a lot of movies

129
00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:14,920
Speaker 1: that you would say, well, it wasn't good, but it

130
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,600
Speaker 1: was fun means something about how I don't know if

131
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,679
Speaker 1: the movie was successful in the way that it meant

132
00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,520
Speaker 1: to be, but I was able to make fun out

133
00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 1: of the experience of it, which kind of like the

134
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,120
Speaker 1: way that maybe even if your king isn't doesn't have

135
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 1: such a good humor himself, you know, the court jester

136
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,000
Speaker 1: can can make a good time for everybody, and the

137
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,520
Speaker 1: king can't really do anything about it without really looking bad. Yeah,

138
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 1: this is another great, um, great point. Something we should

139
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:42,960
Speaker 1: have talked about, I guess when we're talking about about

140
00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,600
Speaker 1: the movie connotation earlier, because yeah, when you say that

141
00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,920
Speaker 1: a movie wasn't great but it was fun, you could

142
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,920
Speaker 1: mean that in a very heartfelt way, like like, yeah,

143
00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,200
Speaker 1: this wasn't a great movie, but it was enjoyable. I

144
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,520
Speaker 1: had a great time watching it. I was able, I

145
00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,840
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the you know, some of the imaginative ideas

146
00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: in it, or you could mean it like no, that

147
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 1: movie it wasn't It wasn't good. In fact, it was horrible.

148
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,680
Speaker 1: But I enjoyed watching it because I I I, I

149
00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 1: feel great pleasure looking upon works of ruin. It entertains

150
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 1: me to watch others fail, and I am deeply down

151
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,760
Speaker 1: a horrible person. So anyway, most of us just more

152
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 1: food for thought, I think now, as far as I

153
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,040
Speaker 1: can tell, and I was looking around for this. I

154
00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,160
Speaker 1: no one seems to have done an exhaustive look at

155
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,800
Speaker 1: fun or fun like words in other languages, but I thought,

156
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,840
Speaker 1: might it might be telling to at least look at

157
00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,720
Speaker 1: one related word in a not too distant tongue. So

158
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,360
Speaker 1: I thought we might look at the German word spas.

159
00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,960
Speaker 1: All right. I was reading about this on your Daily

160
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,079
Speaker 1: German dot com by a writer and he also does

161
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,679
Speaker 1: see him on some YouTube videos by the name of Emmanuel,

162
00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:58,240
Speaker 1: and it's quite fascinating. So spas essentially means fun or sport.

163
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,960
Speaker 1: But as the author points out, you can't just throw

164
00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,960
Speaker 1: the word in via rough translation. And this, of course

165
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,160
Speaker 1: is going to be an obvious reality for anyone out

166
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,320
Speaker 1: there who's recently taken any kind of foreign language or

167
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 1: you remember any foreign language classes you took in the past.

168
00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,000
Speaker 1: You can't just swap out words and expect a translation

169
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,320
Speaker 1: to still work most of the time. And maybe it's

170
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,920
Speaker 1: possible with more closely related languages, but for instance, German

171
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,480
Speaker 1: to English, you're gonna mess things up if you try

172
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,040
Speaker 1: and translate things like that. So, for instance, with spas here,

173
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,960
Speaker 1: you can't say that was fun and then translate that

174
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,840
Speaker 1: roughly to dosivar spash like. It just wouldn't work. And

175
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 1: we'll get back to why in a second. So spas

176
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,440
Speaker 1: is apparently the Germanized version of the Italian spaso, which

177
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,720
Speaker 1: means fun or entertainment and comes from the Latin verb

178
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:54,520
Speaker 1: uh x expossary, which is a version of the word expondary.

179
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,440
Speaker 1: Uh So, according to the author here quote so, that

180
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 1: means spash is related to expand and the author here

181
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,160
Speaker 1: explains that the connection here would seem to to indicate

182
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 1: there's an idea of letting go, perhaps like to have

183
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,160
Speaker 1: fun is to let go, to have fun is to expand. Um. So,

184
00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if that connection is

185
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,720
Speaker 1: purely lost within the confines of the German language or not,

186
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,440
Speaker 1: but it's kind of interesting you know. It comes back

187
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,040
Speaker 1: to that question, like if if you're like two or

188
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:28,000
Speaker 1: three changes away removed from the origin of a word,

189
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,439
Speaker 1: does the origin still resonate in the current usage? Oh? I,

190
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,880
Speaker 1: I feel like I see plenty of parallel to that

191
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,440
Speaker 1: kind of expression. Even in English. When you have fun?

192
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,320
Speaker 1: Are you cutting loose? When you have fun? Are you

193
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,160
Speaker 1: letting your hair down? How about that? Yeah? Now to

194
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,720
Speaker 1: come back to just how the word is used um

195
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,480
Speaker 1: the author here uh Emmanuel. He points out that sposh

196
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,920
Speaker 1: and fun are both used differently. So in English we

197
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,959
Speaker 1: say something is fun, or we can say something is fun,

198
00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,280
Speaker 1: but in German something makes fun or it makes one fun.

199
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,200
Speaker 1: And the example they point to is uh the sentence

200
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 1: uh Deutsche learning mokomir spash so clunquily you could you

201
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,960
Speaker 1: could translate if you were bad at translating, you could

202
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,600
Speaker 1: clunquily translate that to German learning makes me fun. But

203
00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,600
Speaker 1: of course a much better and truer translation would be

204
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,560
Speaker 1: I enjoy learning German or to me, learning German is

205
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,600
Speaker 1: fun interesting, So there would be a trait ascribed to

206
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 1: the speaker kind of it would be kind of like

207
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,840
Speaker 1: saying learning German makes me happy. Except it's not exactly

208
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,240
Speaker 1: the same thing as happiness, right right, So, uh, there's

209
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,680
Speaker 1: a whole article on this that your Daily German dot com.

210
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,240
Speaker 1: Definitely check that if you're interested in in the German

211
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,520
Speaker 1: language or this particular example. Likewise, I know we have

212
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of multi lingual folks out there, and I

213
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,920
Speaker 1: would love to hear some other examples of like how

214
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,040
Speaker 1: what is the word that is like fun in another

215
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,640
Speaker 1: tongue but also distinct from fun? I'm I'm interested also

216
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,160
Speaker 1: in words that that fun can be translated as, but

217
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,520
Speaker 1: that also encompass things that we don't associate with fun

218
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,839
Speaker 1: so much. So, Yeah, any great examples of that out there,

219
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 1: Feel free to write in about them. We'd love to

220
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,400
Speaker 1: hear from you, absolutely. That's one of my favorite kinds

221
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,600
Speaker 1: of listener mail, actually, is when we hear from somebody

222
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,120
Speaker 1: who speaks a different language telling us about the idea

223
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,000
Speaker 1: we talked about in their language. Yeah, I remember, we

224
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,080
Speaker 1: got a lot of those with our episodes about days

225
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:30,000
Speaker 1: of the week. Yeah. Alright, Well, there are a couple

226
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,439
Speaker 1: of papers I wanted to look at examining a couple

227
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,720
Speaker 1: of other aspects of fun. One began as a tangent

228
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 1: off of the other, but eventually became so interesting that

229
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to devote its own section to it. So

230
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 1: the first one I wanted to look at, the original

231
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 1: one is a paper published in ten and the Journal

232
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,720
Speaker 1: of Positive Psychology by Harry T. Rice, Stephanie D O'Keefe,

233
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,240
Speaker 1: and Richard de Lane called fun is more fun when

234
00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,880
Speaker 1: others are involved. This is about the social aspects of fun.

235
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 1: Uh Now, I wanted to mention a few things from

236
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,280
Speaker 1: their background section. One. First of all is that they uh,

237
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,160
Speaker 1: they cite and echoed the sentiments of the two thousand

238
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,320
Speaker 1: ten paper we looked at in part one, the Fun

239
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,760
Speaker 1: Fun Fun paper by by McManus and Furnum, And they're

240
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,440
Speaker 1: citing the idea that fun is really of central importance

241
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,200
Speaker 1: to our lives. And yet given this importance, it has

242
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 1: been given remarkably little formal study in psychology, though related

243
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,280
Speaker 1: concepts like play in intrinsic motivation and happiness have received

244
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,480
Speaker 1: more attention. They point out that quote the word fund

245
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,880
Speaker 1: does not appear as an index term in any emotion

246
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,040
Speaker 1: or social psychology textbook or handbook of which we are aware,

247
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,360
Speaker 1: which is kind of hard to believe, but so they say.

248
00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,960
Speaker 1: Then they actually They cite McManus in Furnham's paper mainly

249
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,240
Speaker 1: for the idea that fun is, as the previous authors concluded,

250
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,640
Speaker 1: a quote complex phenomenon that has different meanings for different

251
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,120
Speaker 1: types of people. And so this is the idea of

252
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,400
Speaker 1: the conclusion we talked about in part one, that there

253
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 1: is actually that is there's actually very little that is

254
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,479
Speaker 1: quote fun for the whole family. And when an activity

255
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,880
Speaker 1: is fun for everyone, it's often because it is a

256
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,679
Speaker 1: multifaceted activity and different people can appreciate different aspects of it.

257
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,040
Speaker 1: So imagine a family board game. Some family members might

258
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 1: find this fun because they like games they inherently enjoy

259
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 1: well what McManus and Furnum called like the achievement factor

260
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,640
Speaker 1: of fun. These are like focused activities where you are

261
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 1: maybe getting into a flow state, or you are trying

262
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,560
Speaker 1: to focus all your attention on doing them correctly, and

263
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, where others in the family might

264
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,120
Speaker 1: still enjoy the activity, but for totally different reasons, maybe

265
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,480
Speaker 1: because they enjoy relaxing in the company of family and

266
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,760
Speaker 1: the game doesn't really matter to them, Or others might

267
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,400
Speaker 1: enjoy the game because they like talking and joking while

268
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,840
Speaker 1: the game's going on. That's what they called the socializing

269
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 1: factor of fun. Now for more background, The authors here

270
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,480
Speaker 1: also look at UH some studies that exist not so

271
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 1: much about the nature of fun itself, but about the

272
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 1: consequences of having of having fun in various environments. So,

273
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 1: for example, there are a lot of studies that seem

274
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 1: focused on the idea of having fun at work, and

275
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,560
Speaker 1: they cite a big list of papers showing that quote

276
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,160
Speaker 1: experiencing fun at work, either in job related activities or

277
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:26,000
Speaker 1: socializing with co workers positively predicts higher job satisfaction and

278
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,200
Speaker 1: lower employee burnout and turnover. However, I think many of

279
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,400
Speaker 1: us know the flip side of that about how in

280
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,560
Speaker 1: some cases it can be rather excruciating when the boss

281
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,760
Speaker 1: or a coworker wants to insist that you have fun.

282
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,680
Speaker 1: And there are actually studies on that too. They cite

283
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,320
Speaker 1: a couple of them. I picked one to highlight and

284
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:45,880
Speaker 1: read and full, and I gotta say, I found it

285
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 1: really interesting. So I actually want to make that whole

286
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 1: paper aside quest that I'll come back to after I'm

287
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 1: done talking about this one. So Rice and co authors

288
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,400
Speaker 1: in Seen were focused on the social aspects of fun. UH.

289
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,200
Speaker 1: They were trying to see if there are major differences

290
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,320
Speaker 1: between the experience of solitary fun, you know, when you're

291
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,400
Speaker 1: having fun because of the activity you're doing, versus social fun,

292
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 1: in which fun is potentially because of the activity, but

293
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,200
Speaker 1: also because of the social context. And so to highlight

294
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,720
Speaker 1: some of their main findings, remember again, these are going

295
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,280
Speaker 1: to be averages because many people do have very different

296
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 1: ideas about what fun is. Even though there are trends,

297
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 1: on average, people have more fun doing things with others

298
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 1: than they do doing things alone. But there are important

299
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,080
Speaker 1: exceptions to this trend. People tend to have more fun

300
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,800
Speaker 1: sharing and experience with a friend. In some of these experiments,

301
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,560
Speaker 1: they literally ask people to bring a friend as opposed

302
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,440
Speaker 1: to sharing the same experience with a stranger. And I

303
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 1: thought this was an interesting contrast with the study about

304
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 1: childhood development that we talked about in the last episode,

305
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,040
Speaker 1: where children on average seem to have more fun with

306
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 1: a novel toy as opposed to a familiar toy, or

307
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 1: seem to have more fun with a toy about which

308
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,920
Speaker 1: some functional mystery remains, like if you still haven't figured

309
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:05,880
Speaker 1: out how it works or all the things you can

310
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,920
Speaker 1: do with it, some amount of novelty or uh. Still,

311
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,680
Speaker 1: ambiguity about the mechanics of a toy makes it more fun.

312
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,400
Speaker 1: So when it comes to inanimate objects for play, familiarity

313
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,480
Speaker 1: more often leads to reduced fun. And yet in this case,

314
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,399
Speaker 1: the authors here find that the opposite is true with people.

315
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,800
Speaker 1: You tend to have more fun with a friend than

316
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,320
Speaker 1: a stranger. Though I guess an important consideration for that

317
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 1: is the difference between a friend and a stranger is

318
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,960
Speaker 1: more than just the difference in familiarity versus novelty, because

319
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,880
Speaker 1: usually a friend is somebody you have chosen on purpose

320
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,120
Speaker 1: to spend time with. I wonder if you tested this

321
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 1: with other familiar versus novel relationships apart from friendship, like

322
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 1: bring a coworker or bring a relative, the results might

323
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,960
Speaker 1: not be the same. That's interesting too to think about

324
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,680
Speaker 1: in terms of children, because when you when you start

325
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 1: looking at like the world of play dates, um, you know,

326
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 1: in some basis that's a child that a friend that

327
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,119
Speaker 1: has been chosen by the by one child by one

328
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,120
Speaker 1: of the children in question. Other times it's just, hey,

329
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 1: these two adults know each other, they both have a

330
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,040
Speaker 1: child at the same age, So guess what play date

331
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,479
Speaker 1: is happening. The whole world of like of childhood development

332
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,040
Speaker 1: and play is so rich with different possibilities, like because

333
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,720
Speaker 1: you also get into the world of like, Okay, now

334
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,480
Speaker 1: we have two children hanging out together. They may squabble

335
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,639
Speaker 1: over a toy, but if you have two of the

336
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 1: same toy, then they may engage in something called parallel play,

337
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,160
Speaker 1: where they're both they're not really playing with each other.

338
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,200
Speaker 1: It's not really a social interaction, but they're both kind

339
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,160
Speaker 1: of doing the same thing at the same time, which

340
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,679
Speaker 1: I guess is kind of a necessary developmental step to

341
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 1: get to that point to where you're actively playing together.

342
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 1: But I would bet even in a lot of parallel play,

343
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 1: if they're not constantly playing together saying a cooperative or

344
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,920
Speaker 1: competitive way, they still at various points kind of check

345
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,640
Speaker 1: in with one another and see what the other is doing.

346
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,240
Speaker 1: Would would you agree with that? Yeah, It's kind of

347
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 1: like imagine two kingdoms that have a ward in the past,

348
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,439
Speaker 1: and now that they're they're working towards interaction and for

349
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,480
Speaker 1: now we're just we're just happy that they're both doing

350
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,399
Speaker 1: our own thing, but we do have to check in

351
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,120
Speaker 1: with each other every now and then to make sure

352
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,479
Speaker 1: that you know, everything is still cool, and you are

353
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 1: also interested, like, how are they playing with that toy?

354
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 1: Can I do that with mine as well? Exactly? Yeah.

355
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 1: So this study also related fund to the so called

356
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:30,119
Speaker 1: core affect model, which is a two variable description of

357
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:35,120
Speaker 1: the consciously accessible features of a person's basic neurophysiological state.

358
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 1: And the two values are hedonic valence and arousal. So

359
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 1: hedonic valence is pleasure versus displeasure, and arousal is activated

360
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 1: versus de activated. And you can imagine, uh, these two

361
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: variables forming a graph with four corners. So in the

362
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 1: unpleasant de activated corner, you could be depressed, lethargic, board tears,

363
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, think you know, waiting on hold on

364
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,120
Speaker 1: a call with your insurance company for hours. In the

365
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,640
Speaker 1: pleasant deactivated corner, you could be peaceful, relaxed, and content,

366
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 1: maybe lying in a hammock in the shade. In the

367
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 1: unpleasant activated corner, you could be extremely frightened or distressed

368
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 1: and anxious. And in the pleasant activated corner you could

369
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 1: be excited, happy, or ecstatic. So I think you know,

370
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 1: the middle of a concert, seeing your favorite band, or

371
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 1: playing a really fun game. And the authors here found

372
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 1: on average that experiences that people describe as fun actually

373
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 1: increase both low activation and high activation pleasant states. So

374
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 1: people think describe things as fun, and it seems to

375
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 1: push them both in the hammock direction and in the

376
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: concert direction. But social fund, specifically fun with other people

377
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 1: increases high activation pleasure. However, there was a there there

378
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 1: was an interesting exception to all this, and it was

379
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 1: the variable of the trade loneliness. They found quote that

380
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 1: loneliness moderated the latter effects, such that lonely individuals received

381
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: a weaker boost from shared compared to solitary fund. So

382
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 1: in general, people have more fun if they're having fun

383
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,360
Speaker 1: with other people, but specifically, the trait of being lonely

384
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 1: makes people less likely to get that additional boost from

385
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 1: having other people around when they're having fun. And I

386
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: thought that point was really interesting. The author's right quote.

387
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 1: Previous research has suggested that loneliness is less a matter

388
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 1: of spending time alone and more a matter of not

389
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: experiencing a gain in positive emotions from social activity. And uh,

390
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'd ever heard it put exactly

391
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: this way before, but that absolutely rings true to me. Like,

392
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: in my experience, loneliness is not simply not being around

393
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: other people. People often describe feelings of loneliness most acutely,

394
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,360
Speaker 1: like in really close temporal proximity to social events. Like

395
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: a feeling of loneliness might come on when you are

396
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: leaving a party and reflecting on the party or the

397
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: social event that you just attended, sort of thinking about

398
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 1: the idea that you were surrounded by people, but there

399
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: was like a problem. It felt like something wasn't right.

400
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: Maybe some kind of depth or richness of social interaction

401
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: that other people appear to be experiencing from talking to

402
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 1: friends at a party doesn't really seem to work for you, Like,

403
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,159
Speaker 1: you don't get that same benefit. And they cite several

404
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 1: studies such as Hawkley at all in two thousand three

405
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: and Si and Rice from two thousand nine pointing towards

406
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: the conclusion that the core trait of people who experience

407
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: loneliness is quote a relative lack of intimacy and enjoyment

408
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 1: in interactions with friends. Now, I think trait loneliness can

409
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: can fluctuate, so, like you know, I think some people

410
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: can probably say from experience that, like you can go

411
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: through more kind of lonely periods in your life where

412
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: that that is an experience for you and then fortunately

413
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: come out of it and uh find situations where you

414
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: get more enjoyment from social interaction. But that does appear

415
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 1: to be a very important, uh limiting or mitigating factor

416
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: in the idea that bringing people along for your fun

417
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: activity makes it more fun. That is true for note,

418
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: for most people, but not for everyone. Right right, And

419
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: again I guess it also depends on the yet the activity,

420
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: the people that might come along. Uh yeah, there are

421
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: there are other factors to to tease a part there

422
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: than now I'm ready to jump into this uh this

423
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 1: side quest paper about uh the idea of having fun

424
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: at work. Remember that this was originally in the context

425
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: of being a counterpoint to a whole bunch of studies

426
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: that found essentially there are positive there are benefits to

427
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 1: employees having fun at work and saying, you know, your employee,

428
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 1: it would be really great if you can make work

429
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: a fun environment. That's good even for objective measures for

430
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: the bottom line of a business. And so the paper

431
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: I read here was by a an author named Peter

432
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: Fleming who was associated with the University of Cambridge at

433
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: the time he wrote this. I think he said an

434
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: Australian University now um but the title is workers Playtime,

435
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: Boundaries and Cynicism in a Culture of Fun Program, published

436
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: in the Journal of Applied Behavioral Science in two thousand five.

437
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: And I will try to summarize this as breezily as

438
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: I can, but had so many interesting little tangents in it.

439
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: So Fleming starts by talking about how, beginning roughly in

440
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties and continuing through to the time this

441
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: paper was written, there was kind of a fad complex

442
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 1: among business academics and management consultants and company culture gurus

443
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: that was all centered around the idea that the workplace

444
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: had to be fun. And this was based on some

445
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: actual research like there were study is and also just

446
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: popular workplace anecdotes that seem to show tangible gains for

447
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: businesses when their employees had fun at work, with claims

448
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: that work you know, when your workers are having more fun,

449
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: they're more motivated, more productive, more committed to their jobs,

450
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: more innovative or creative, they provide better customer service, and

451
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: so forth, all of which might be true. In fact,

452
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: I think it probably is true. And even on top

453
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: of that, more recent studies show that when employees have

454
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: fun at work or have fun socializing with coworkers. They

455
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: tend to report higher job satisfaction, less burnout, and the

456
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: rate of employee turnover is lower. But okay, so you

457
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: imagine you have these facts in hand and you want

458
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: to implement that knowledge. So you're a manager or a

459
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: business owner, how do you make sure your employees are

460
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: having fun? Uh? So fleming rights quote through informal dress codes,

461
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: office parties, games, humor, zany training camp, joking, and so on.

462
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: Organizational members are encouraged to loosen up and find more

463
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: pleasure in their roles. So this concept, of of course,

464
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: has been explored in satire many times over the years.

465
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously The Office explores this a lot. The

466
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: awkwardness of workplace fun but also the release of workplace fun.

467
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: I mean, those are two common themes on that show.

468
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: Um also the the excellent recent series Severance. Uh this

469
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: is this doesn't spoil anything, but the basically the basic

470
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: concept for anyone unfamiliar with it, is that you have

471
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: a neural implant that separates your uh, your your home

472
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 1: life from your work life, your AUDI from your any,

473
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: and your any has no memory or knowledge of your

474
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: AUDI and vice versa. And so there are a lot

475
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 1: of themes in this show regarding fun in the workplace. Uh. There's,

476
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: for instance, in this show, the the employees try to

477
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: win such privileges as the pre waffle party eggbar social

478
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: where they win it. There's like this little cart that's

479
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: brought out and it has like fancy deviled eggs on

480
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: it and some punch, and yeah, everybody wants this and

481
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: it does even in the show, and it's kind of quirkiness.

482
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: It seems kind of delightful, and it made me almost

483
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: nostalgic for enforced fun in the workplace. Well, of course, yeah,

484
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: and that that highly said it can be a mix, right,

485
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: Like Zaney training camps might sound kind of dreadful, but

486
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: office parties can be fun or not. Sometimes they are.

487
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: Humor and joking are certainly good, right right, Well, sometimes

488
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: they are. But I wanted to read a section directly

489
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: from Fleming here to give you a little more flavor

490
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: of what you know, some of this uh you know,

491
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: company culture guru inspired uh joking might be like so

492
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: um Fleming rights quote. Perhaps the best known proponent of

493
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: staged corporate humor is bar su. He maintained that management

494
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: can use joking, laughter, and smiling to develop vibrant and

495
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: creative organizations. In fact, it's applicability is apparently universal, and

496
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: then Flaming begins a quote from this source. Humor plays

497
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: a vital role in helping to close the communication gap

498
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: between leader and followers, helping to extract information which might

499
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: not otherwise be volunteered. It also enhances trust, facilitates change,

500
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: and encourages plurality of vision. Humor breaks down barriers between

501
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: people and makes an organization more participative and responsive. It

502
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: follows that an environment that is amenable to humor will

503
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 1: also facilitate organizational learning and renewal. And then Flaming himself

504
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: goes on. The underlying paradox here, as in much of

505
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: the prescript of literature, is that humor is ultimately a

506
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: serious business. It is unsurprisingly driven by very sober corporate motives.

507
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: The obvious difficulty of institutionalizing an experience that is usually

508
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: considered spontaneous was intimated by Hudson in two thousand one

509
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: and executive for Brady Corporation. She observed that humor and

510
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: fun can be developed through exerci eyeses that may feel spontaneous,

511
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: but are in fact well orchestrated through party events such

512
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: as brady Fest or the Lego program, in which employees

513
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: play with Lego blocks like children. That's that's a that's

514
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: a loaded statement. I mean, there are plenty of adults

515
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: out there who who who have fun with Lego blocks,

516
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: and there's nothing wrong with that. I love Lego, I am.

517
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: I'm so excited about the idea of playing with Lego

518
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: blocks on my own terms. If my boss told me

519
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: to play with Lego blocks, I don't know, that might

520
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: be a little different. Well, and I guess my approach

521
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: would be what it could be worse at least, and

522
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: we're not doing trust falls or anything like that, or

523
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: having to pretend to attack each other that sort of thing. Yeah,

524
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: so so so, So what was the actual observational component

525
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: of this paper? Well, Fleming here took part in a

526
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: field study where he observed the workings of a customer

527
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: service call center in Australia pseudonymously called sun Ray. That's

528
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: not the real name, but that's why he's calling it

529
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: for the purpose of this report. So this is a

530
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: qualitative report. And this company was selected because it was

531
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: known for trying to create a fun atmosphere at work,

532
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: and Fleming performed a bunch of in depth confidential interviews

533
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: to understand how the culture of managed fun worked. And

534
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: this culture of fun has too many facets to get

535
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: into all of them here, but it's everything from you've

536
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: got planned activities like there was one described as sort

537
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: of like high school musical theater where employees would be

538
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: like bust off somewhere to learn and then perform a

539
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: song and dance routine. Uh. To dress up days where

540
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: you would dress up like a superhero or you'd wear

541
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: pajamas to work to a handbook of company philosophy that

542
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: includes a bunch of stuff about the three FS, which

543
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: are focus, fun, and fulfillment, And to read from Fleming

544
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: here quote when an employee embodies the three f's, they

545
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: are said to have the right attitude. This involves a

546
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: set of performances that communicate a positive personality, a childish playfulness,

547
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: and a belief frame of mind. Importantly, however, a genuine

548
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: expression of these demeanors, rather than mere surface acting, is

549
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: mandatory at Sunray. The Fund's got to be real, okay,

550
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: so um Fleming found through his observations and interviews that,

551
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: in fact, though there were some people who did appreciate

552
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: this culture of managed fund One of the core results

553
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: of these top down attempts to make work fun was

554
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: a mounting sense of cynicism in a subset of employees,

555
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: which he traces to to a blurring of the boundary

556
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,719
Speaker 1: between work life and non work life. The dissolution of

557
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: this boundary was not necessarily, in fact probably not in

558
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: most cases a good thing. Yeah, the blurring of that

559
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: boundary always seems to be right for contention, no matter

560
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: which which direction things are getting blurred in, because it

561
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: can certainly feel weird when and when employees are encouraged

562
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: to bring more of their outside self into work, But

563
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: it also feels weird if they're encouraged to leave it

564
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: at home, like there's there's there's not really, you know,

565
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: it's very imagine from the employer's side of things, it's

566
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: a very tricky area to navigate because it seems like

567
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. Yeah,

568
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: And there's another kind of paradox or double bind like

569
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: that that we'll get to after the conclusion here. So uh,

570
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: deep interviews revealed to Fleming that several of the major

571
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: problems with the culture at this company of man. The

572
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: culture of managed fun here uh came from the dissolution

573
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: of of boundaries and UH. This dissolution of boundaries represented

574
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: a couple of things. One of them was condescension. Some

575
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: employees felt that the regime of fun was actually infantilizing,

576
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: treating them like kindergarteners rather than as adults with dignity

577
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: and self respect. And like two of the main work

578
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: non work boundaries blurred in this arena where the boundaries

579
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: between work and school and the boundaries between work and family.

580
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: So you know, if you are made to feel like

581
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: you are a student and your boss is the teacher,

582
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: or made to feel like maybe you are a kid

583
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: and your boss is the parent, that that's a kind

584
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: of like unpleasant and condescending boundary to blur. Uh. And

585
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: as a compliment to this, I didn't mention it earlier,

586
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: but there's a whole section about how it's sunray this workplace.

587
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: They used a lot of messaging about how they are

588
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: a family, and much has been written about that concept lately.

589
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: But to read from Flaming quote, in its most patronizing form,

590
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: paternalism erodes this rational sense of self and endeavors to

591
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: instigate a childlike membership role that simultaneously positions management as

592
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: benevolent caregivers. You can see why this might be unpleasant

593
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: for some people. Okay, so first this condescension. The second

594
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: uh boundary blurring problem is inauthenticity. Basically, by constantly insisting

595
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: that work is something else, work is something fun, that

596
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: work is like a party, or work is like family,

597
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: or work is like a game, many employees were driven

598
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: to reflect on exactly the ways that work is not

599
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: like any of these things. So to use the example

600
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: of family, if a family is in you know, families

601
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: can be a lot of different things, but in the

602
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: best sense, maybe a family is supposed to be about

603
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: unconditional love. Is that really what a workplace is like? No, No,

604
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: generally not unless your workplace is your family, and which

605
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 1: case that's there's even more work or more room for

606
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: for a complex complex understanding there. But but yeah, for

607
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 1: the most part, it is. It is. It is far

608
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: from unconditional. It is very conditional. Oftentimes you will sign

609
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: a document that that spells out what those conditions are. Yeah, yeah, uh,

610
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: so there's that. But in the case of so that's

611
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: like the family comparison, but imagine the boundary blurring with

612
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: other types of more fun oriented stuff. So suggesting that

613
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: work is like a party or work is like a game.

614
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: A key difference is that fun non work activities are

615
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,479
Speaker 1: generally things you do freely. You know, at least under

616
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: the right can editions, you are doing them of your

617
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: own volition. And they are also generally things that you

618
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: are free to stop doing as soon as you decide

619
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: that they're not actually fun. Workplace events are not like this.

620
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: You know, the boss says it's time to have fun

621
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: now actually borders on an oxymoron, which I think sort

622
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: of reveals an interesting fact about fun itself that we

623
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: haven't really gotten into much yet. Fun, for some reason,

624
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 1: at least in my mind, entails some assumption of freedom.

625
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: The exact same activity could be fun if you choose

626
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: to do it freely, and it can quite easily stop

627
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: being fun if you were forced to do it the

628
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: exact same activity if somebody is saying you must do it, well,

629
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: that's not so much fun anymore. So try to make

630
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: somebody play a game, even if it's a game they

631
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 1: would enjoy another context, and you are almost certainly leaving

632
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: the Kingdom of fun. Yeah, yeah, I mean plenty of

633
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: people have explored this, even if if they themselves are

634
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: the boss and question turn the thing, turn your passion,

635
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: turn your hobby into even a side business. And sometimes

636
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: you're you're hit with the reality of this, Well, it's

637
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: not quite fun anymore because I'm not entirely doing it

638
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: completely on my own terms anymore exactly. And this also

639
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: sort of reminds me of the study we talked about

640
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: in part two about the relationship between fun learning and

641
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: free exploratory play in young children. So if young children

642
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: learned by playing, and the wages of play is fun,

643
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: the internal reward for experimental play behavior is the sense

644
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: of fun. Uh, You've got to think about how these

645
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: behaviors are usually noted to be self directed. It is

646
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: free exploratory play as soon as an adult comes in

647
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: and tells the child what they have to do. Is

648
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: that free exploratory play anymore? And does it come with

649
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: the same sense of fun? I don't know, But anyway,

650
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: this all leads up to an answer to a paradox

651
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: that is emerging from earlier You know what, didn't this

652
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: all start with the idea that there are a bunch

653
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: of studies, or at least observations about how fun workplaces

654
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: are better in in many objective measures, like their employees

655
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: are more committed, more motivated, and so forth. Well, yes,

656
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: but there may be a very important taxonomic difference. The

657
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: most authentically fun workplaces are the ones where the workers

658
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: create organic fun for themselves, rather than the cultures of

659
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: fund that are deliberately constructed by management. But there's a

660
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: twist to even this. So I'm gonna quote from Flaming here.

661
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: Flaming sites a number of studies in the sentence, but

662
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna skip over those. Uh, he just writes quote.

663
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: When playful schmoozing is self initiated in this way, however,

664
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: members of management often find it an affront to their

665
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: authority and are quietly distrustful, even though it may actually

666
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: lead to higher productivity, as Gouldner discovered in relation to

667
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: quote indulgency patterns. Indeed, as Ackroyd and Thompson in ninety

668
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: nine and Fleming and Sewell in two thousand two, intimated,

669
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: self authored fund may even be interpreted as seditious nous

670
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: simply because it has not been officially sanctioned. So we're

671
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,919
Speaker 1: left in this conundrum where it's like, I would say,

672
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: fun actually is good both in itself because it's it

673
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: makes people happy. It's a good thing, and it's usually

674
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: good in its indirect effects on business. Bosses know that

675
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: fun workplaces are objectively better for the bottom line in

676
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways. Yet when employees create an

677
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: authentic culture of fun for themselves, bosses are often suspicious

678
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: of it or hostile to it. And when bosses try

679
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: to inject fun into the workplace from the top down,

680
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: it can backfire and lead to unhappiness and cynicism. You

681
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: could say, like, well, if you've got cynicism about attempts

682
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: to have fun at work, then you've just got a

683
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: bad attitude. There's something wrong with you. But I think

684
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: Fleming takes I would say, in a pro priently sympathetic

685
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: reaction to to this idea, he he describes cynicism as

686
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: a kind of defense mechanism, or a psychological self vaccination

687
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: against the loss of dignity implied by the condescension of

688
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: managed fund and against the loss of integrity implied by

689
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: the inauthenticity of managed fun. And so in the end,

690
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: in the conclusion section, he offers a few final thoughts

691
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: um one is that basically, if you're trying to intentionally

692
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: create an environment of fun, you really need to consider

693
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: how these attempts will land with respect to people sense

694
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: of adult dignity and uh and integrity. You know, you

695
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: want to make sure that whatever you're doing does not

696
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: feel uh, does not feel condescending in fantalizing, or does

697
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: not feel kind of fake and forced. And the next

698
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: point that he makes this really makes me think, Rob

699
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: about your comments earlier about the relationships between fun and

700
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: the tradition of fooling uh Fleming rights quote. It has

701
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: been suggested that authentic fun may not only be incongruous

702
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: with managerial control, but gain it's very inspiration from being

703
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: against authority. And I think there's a lot of truth

704
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: to that's got to go right to the heart of it, right, Like,

705
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: it maybe kind of painful to the boss's ego, but

706
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: in some cases it might actually be the best thing

707
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 1: for a business to let the employees make their own fun,

708
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: even if some component of that fun is a kind

709
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: of rebellious or satirical attitude to company authorities. Yeah, yeah,

710
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: that's uh and yeah, this day goes straight into the

711
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: tradition of the fool. You know, the fool is the

712
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: one who can who can joke with the king without

713
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 1: being sent to the gallows, that sort of thing, you know,

714
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: And you get into traditions of carnival and stuff where

715
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: the uh you know where where the where the fool

716
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: becomes king for a day and so forth. Yeah. Yeah,

717
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: So if this is true in business, and I find

718
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: myself pretty well convinced by this, I think this makes

719
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: a really strong case. It makes me wonder how the

720
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: same thing might be true not only in business, but

721
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: in other goal oriented team activities. Like I wonder if,

722
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: for example, sports teams or military squads or the things

723
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: like that also have objectively better performance by some measures

724
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: when there is a sense of fun, but that fun

725
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: cannot really be installed from above, and to some extent

726
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 1: necessarily involves a spirit of camaraderie against the coach or

727
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 1: against the sergeant and so forth. Yeah, and I this,

728
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: this definitely helps contribute to the picture that a good

729
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: boss has to be the right combination of things. Um,

730
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 1: it's easy to think again of the office in this

731
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: comparison in which we have in the character of Michael Scott,

732
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: we have this, uh, this, this ineffective boss, the boss

733
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: that is too eager to want to be part of

734
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: the fun one. But also I seem to recall also

735
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: at times like he's he that also makes him more

736
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: subject to being hurt by not being part of the fund.

737
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: I guess a lot of times he's he's oblivious to

738
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: that as well. But there's probably I guess there's probably

739
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: some great examples in fiction of of the thin skinned

740
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: boss as well, the one that that really wants to

741
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: to stamp out any kind of workplace fun, a pure villain. Well,

742
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I think about how many scenes in the

743
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: office involved workers genuinely making their own authentic fun, and

744
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: they are having fun, and then Michael detects this and

745
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: tried to insert himself into it. It's like I want

746
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: to be a part. Yeah. Anyway, that's the end of

747
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: my thoughts about that. But I found that paper unusually

748
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: fascinating for a business psychology uh paper, Yeah, fascinating and

749
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: a certainly one that resonates still today. Obviously, the workplaces

750
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: has changed a lot in the past couple of years,

751
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 1: but a lot of these realities still still hold true.

752
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: But I would say regarding the broader concept of fun,

753
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: just One of the main things again I want to

754
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 1: emphasize extracting from that is the relationship between um, between

755
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: fun and authenticity, the relationship between fun and freedom, and

756
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: between fun and self volition. Yeah, fun is the thing

757
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: I choose to do. Uh, and I'm making a choice

758
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: in the fun. If if fun is demanded of me,

759
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 1: well then it's it's probably not fun anymore. Though again,

760
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: fun is so subjective. You can easily imagine a situation where,

761
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: or perhaps reflect on a situation where there was some

762
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: sort of workplace induced fun that surprise actually ended up

763
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: being fun. Things like that do happen, sure and too.

764
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: I mentioned this, but just to say it again in

765
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: the UH. In this study, Fleming did find some you know,

766
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: some employees liked the culture of managed fund, just not everybody.

767
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: There was just a large subset that that founded insulting

768
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: or making them cynical and so forth. And again, I

769
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: would be interested to hear from from people who have

770
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: his bosses h employers out there, like it has to

771
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: be frustrating because it's like, okay, we were gonna do um.

772
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: I don't know what's an example. I guess, well, the

773
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: egg bar. You know, let's say you're rolling out the

774
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: deviled egg bar for your employee. Yes, some people are

775
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: insulted by this and they think it's infantile, and so

776
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: then you take it away, and then other people are

777
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: hurt that they're no longer getting an eggbar. Like there's

778
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: it seems like it's there's there's no way to please everybody.

779
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: Let's see it giving people paid time off. I'd say

780
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: that please is just about everybody. Well, yes, yes, I

781
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: think I think I think everyone's in favor of that,

782
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: because then it's up to you to have fun. If

783
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: you want fun, or if you can have fun. Of course,

784
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: some people are gonna have to use that time to

785
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: to do freelance work, or work another job, or take

786
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: care of other responsibilities. Of course, but then again that's

787
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 1: sometimes the case with with where we didn't really get

788
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,439
Speaker 1: into this. But but sometimes if you have workplace induced fun,

789
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: well that's coming at the expense of work that you're

790
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 1: supposed to do and expected to have completed. Because exactly

791
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: a complicating fact. I didn't mention the in fact, this

792
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 1: is something that has talked about, like there's another problem

793
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: with workplace fun. This was not so much the subject

794
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: of Fleming's paper, but it was highlighted in in the

795
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: Rice paper in the summary section said, another major problem

796
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: with workplace fun is when people are, say, feeling like

797
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: they don't have enough time to do all the work

798
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: they need to do, if they're in a rush, if

799
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: they've got a big workload. Uh. People often perceive managerial

800
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: attempts to inject fun as really infuriating distractions from you

801
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: know what, that what they're supposed to be focusing on. Yeah,

802
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: but then again, m employees are were impossible to please

803
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: because I distinctly remember examples of where work would say like, Hey,

804
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 1: we're gonna have drinks on the house for everybody after

805
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: work today, and I would be like, well, I'm going

806
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: home after work. Why don't you do this during the day.

807
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: Do it during the workday. That's the day that I've

808
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: carved out for you. So if you're going to give

809
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: me a free drink, give it to me during that

810
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: time period. So again, impossible time during the workday to

811
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: do that. I'm going to do my work. Yeah, thank

812
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: thank Now. I thought we might come back to a

813
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: topic we touched on previously. I mentioned how personally when

814
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: it comes to exercise that I I would not describe

815
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: some of the experiences as fun. For example, I believe

816
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: the example I used was if I'm swimming laps by myself,

817
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: I would not say that's fun. I would say it's fulfilling,

818
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: it's satisfying, it's good for even a flow state, and

819
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: you know, a sort of headspace of creative thinking. But

820
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: I would not say this is fun. I am having

821
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: fun now, or I had fun doing that. But it's

822
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: not just you know, it's it's dependent under the things.

823
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: If I'm swimming with my son in a cool pool,

824
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 1: like it has a waterfall or something, and uh, you know,

825
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: we're having a good time, that's fun. That's obviously fun.

826
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: So this is all, of course very subjective, and as

827
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: is fun itself. We had a listener right in and

828
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,479
Speaker 1: mentioned that they personally would only find swimming not fun

829
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: they didn't reach their goal, or they weren't able to

830
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: perform to meet their own expectations. And I agree that

831
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: that not meeting expectations for performance is less satisfying and

832
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: even disappointing. But I would not personally state that the

833
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: opposite of all of this is fun. But again, all

834
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 1: of this is highly subjective. But I did find some

835
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: research some writings on this topic, so I thought I'd

836
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: share some of this here. So UH, some of this

837
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: was related to some work by a World at All. Uh.

838
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: The first thing I ran across by these authors was

839
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: a two thousand fourteen article in Marketing Letters. UH, and

840
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: it was titled is It Fun or Exercise? And uh

841
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: when the subduct The sub title for the paper was

842
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: the framing of physical activity biases subsequent snacking. So the

843
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: authors here looked at research to determine how the perception

844
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: of fun in exercise impacted one's likelihood of later indulging

845
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: in hedonistic snack um, you know, basically rewarding yourself with

846
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: some sort of perhaps unhealthy treat later in the day.

847
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 1: And their findings indicated that the more fun an activity

848
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 1: was in the individual's mind, the less likely they were

849
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: to later seek that reward of a hedonistic snack. Quote.

850
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 1: Engaging in a physical activity seems to trigger the search

851
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: for reward when individuals perceive it as exercise, but not

852
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: when they perceive it as fun. So the idea here,

853
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: which the authors elaborate on more in a paper from

854
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: titled is It Fun or Exercise? UH, is that the

855
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: more fun and exercise is the less we're likely to

856
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: focus on the work involved, which you may seem like

857
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: an overstatement of the obvious. But uh, you know, if

858
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: we often have to have these things spelled out in

859
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: research and in these is the sort of findings. But

860
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: and as we point out, pretty frequently, what seems obvious

861
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: is often untrue. That's right, right, So these these statements

862
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: and ideas have to be examined. Yeah, So the idea

863
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 1: here is if you're if you're having fun, and if

864
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: you feel like you're having fun even while you're exercising,

865
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: then later you're less likely to feel like you're entitled

866
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: to that reward. And the reverse if you feel like

867
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: that exercise was a lot of work, like, well, that

868
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: wasn't fun, but I, you know, I sure did really

869
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: pump the iron today. I deserve that that doughnut. I'm

870
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: entitled to that donut. And so the authors say, quote,

871
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: focusing attention on something else may change the perceptions of

872
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: the effort expended during the activity, reducing feelings of entitlement

873
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: due to exercising. So this would seem an indicator that

874
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: there's certainly a benefit beyond motivation to exercise itself, in

875
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: finding a form of exercise that produces a feeling of fun. Yeah,

876
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: so that maybe if your exercise is fun, it's not

877
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: just that you're more likely to do it, but also

878
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: that you're less likely to try to compensate with other

879
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 1: rewards later. So maybe if you're you're playing a sport

880
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: you like versus I don't know, just running on a

881
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: treadmill exactly right or um, this is an example that

882
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: comes to my mind. Anyway, I'm not a runner, so

883
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: I can't speak to this, but I know we have

884
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 1: runners out there, and if I know one thing about runners,

885
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: they love to talk about running right in and let

886
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: us know. But it seems that like running around on

887
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: a on a track, you're gonna have limited stimuli. But

888
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: if you're out running in the world likest like most

889
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: runners I know like to do like you're you're you're

890
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: subject to, you know, a different environment, to different novel

891
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 1: details of that environment, and I can imagine where that

892
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: would be more likely to produce an experience of fun

893
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: whilst running. I remember I formed a very strange association

894
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 1: with exercise years ago, where I uh, for some reason,

895
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: the pattern I put together is that every time I

896
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: went to the Y m C. A too and spent

897
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,280
Speaker 1: time running on a treadmill. I would watch televangelists on TV,

898
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: and that was it formed some kind of unbreakable link

899
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: in my mind. So I still sometimes associate exercise the

900
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: prosperity gospel. We're okay. The authors of this paper, they

901
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 1: do suggest towards the end of the paper, they say, quote,

902
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: listening to music during a run, making phone calls during

903
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: a walk, or watching a video during a treadmill routine

904
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: maybe more related to weight loss, success and to perseverance

905
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: than previously thought. So, yeah, that's that's interesting. I would swimming.

906
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: There are a lot of those things I can't do

907
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 1: while swimming. But I will say that if the the

908
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 1: y m c A where and I swim on Tuesdays

909
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: and Thursdays, there's an aerobics class in the pool, and uh,

910
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: the person who runs that class always has a boom

911
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 1: box out and they're always just really pumping out the jams.

912
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: I'm talking stuff like there's orbital playing. It's you know

913
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat soundtrack, uh stuff. I mean the original, the

914
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: Paul Anderson original Mortal Kombat soundtrack with like KMFDM and

915
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 1: all that. Well, I don't know, I don't know if

916
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: ever came FDM on their but you know, a lot

917
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,479
Speaker 1: of a lot of pumping beats, and I will say

918
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: it makes those days more pleasant than the other days

919
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: where it's just empty pool ambience. So I will say, yeah,

920
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: I can see the difference just you know, in my

921
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: own experience there. And so obviously that's going to be

922
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: even more enhanced if you have some degree of control

923
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 1: over the music or what you're watching while you are

924
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: on the treadmill. Uh did you have a say so

925
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: in what you watched at the y m c A

926
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: was just what was on? Uh yeah, the treadmills that

927
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: each had little individual TVs and uh so you could

928
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: pick what was on them. I mean if the TV works.

929
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: Sometimes it didn't, but uh yeah, you had a choice.

930
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I often don't love a lot

931
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: of what's on basic cable. So it seemed for some

932
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: reason like the Health and Wealth Gospel was a was

933
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: a good choice at least it was kind of interesting

934
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: in some way. Okay, I can see that. Now this

935
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: also makes me think that, um, I know, in a

936
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: lot of these exercise machines, you also have other forms

937
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: of visualization, and especially in the light of these uh

938
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: this paper that I just referenced, it's also interesting. I

939
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: was looking at some other studies that were considering the

940
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: use of imagery to enhance the perception of fun in exercise.

941
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 1: So I think the specific categories that we're looking at

942
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 1: were enjoyment, imagery, energy imagery, technique imagery, or just straight

943
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: up exercise alone without any imagery. And um, I believe

944
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: they were finding that, yes, all three of these actual

945
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 1: categories of imagery seem to have an effect on on

946
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: on the perception of fund in exercise. And I think

947
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: it's it's ultimately beyond the scope of that research, but

948
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: I wonder if the imagery was perceived was perceived more

949
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: as a reward or an enhancement, you know, like how

950
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: do you how does the how does that work on us?

951
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: If is the is the imagery on the screen in

952
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: front of you, that is, you know, connected to your

953
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: performance on the treadmill? Do we end up seeing that

954
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: as reward or is that just an enhancement of fun?

955
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, interesting, I don't know either. It

956
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: kind of comes back to what we said earlier, like fun,

957
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 1: despite being this thing that drives so much in our

958
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: lives and in our culture. Uh, there's not as much

959
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: written about as as you might expect. Also, the word fun,

960
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 1: it's just used so often you can make searching for

961
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,399
Speaker 1: these these papers a little difficult as well. Yeah, yeah,

962
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 1: a lot of papers that heavily referenced the word fun

963
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: are not really about fun, all right, everybody. Uh, it

964
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: looks like the the the fun train is reaching the station.

965
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 1: We are gonna reach the end of this particular journey,

966
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: but it but who knows. We could We could be

967
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: back at some point in the future if some other

968
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: interesting topics come up regarding fun. And of course we'd

969
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: love to hear from everyone. Again, if you have thoughts

970
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: on fun, a bit to experience of fun, fun in

971
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: the workplace, the linguistics of fun, etcetera. Do right in.

972
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. I'm sure we'll be

973
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: talking about this on listener Mail episodes in the future.

974
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 1: Listener Mail episodes of course air on Mondays and the

975
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed Who season thurstees

976
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 1: are pore episodes. Um, hey, those are the dance music

977
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: days at the at the y m c. A. There

978
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: you go. Interesting coincidence there Wednesdays that's a short form

979
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: artifact or monster fact. On Fridays, we do Weird How Cinema.

980
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 1: That's our time to set aside most serious concerns and

981
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 1: just talk about a strange film. Huge thanks as always

982
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 1: to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you

983
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: would like to get in touch with us with feedback

984
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: on this episode or any other, to suggest topic for

985
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: the future, or just to say hello, you can email

986
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

987
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio.

988
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,439
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart radios, the iHeart Radio app,

989
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows

990
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: is twenty proper posts b