WEBVTT - Yolk with Doak 44: Links Travel, Analytics in Golf, and Short Par 4s 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:05.880 And when I find my. 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.720 Ball in a fried egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.880 Egg Friday, Frida Egg Egg, Frida Egg bride Egg Lie, 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:13.400 I'm about ready to run off. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:40.240 Of the Welcome back to another edition of the Friday 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.919 Egg Golf Podcast. I'm your host, Andy Johnson, and welcome 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:48.560 to another episode of our series with golf architect Tom Doak. 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:50.479 I was excited. 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.040 I made a last minute decision to head to Traverse 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.320 City for one of our events at the Kingsley Club 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.720 and was able to catch Tom up there while I visited, 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:04.959 So we recorded a couple a couple episodes. This one 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.080 will be out now. The second part of this conversation 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.199 will be out in a couple of weeks. This podcast 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.000 is going to kind of center around a wide range 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:18.080 of topics, but mostly Tom playing Sedge Valley for the 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.080 first time. Then we dive into a bunch of different 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:27.120 topics there. So this was super fun. Thanks to Tom 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:31.479 for the time as always, and enjoy this podcast. Before 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.560 we get to Tom, let's talk about our partner club 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:39.120 champion Club Champion is I think the best. 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:41.760 Way to get fit for golf clubs. You go there. 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.319 It's an amazing experience from the moment you walk in 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:49.960 the door, it is just the studios are amazing. There 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.760 are golf clubs everywhere. I think, like one of the 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.680 things that's super unique is you know you have the 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.320 ability to get basically any setup you want, any type 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:04.320 of a shaft, any type of manufacturer. 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Can you make it a trip together? What's 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.320 what's your You know, people are always now I feel 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.920 like it's becoming more and more popular as more direct 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.160 flights are available to these places. 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.840 From you know, all these cities. Can you do both 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:46.240 at once? 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.080 You can? I mean there's certainly more people going down 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.680 there than they used to do for golf and and 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.960 you certainly can go do both. I mean I used 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.800 to stop through New Zealand a little, you know, most 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:01.960 of the time on the way to Australia because Air 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.840 New Zealand is such a great airline, and you know 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.680 I could fly in, stop for a day or two 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:12.280 and go on to Australia, but you know, it's kind 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.520 of like trying to do Scotland and Ireland on the 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.400 same trip. I mean, just have faith that there's plenty 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.800 to see in Australia, or there's plenty to see in 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.719 New Zealand, and to try, you know, to try to 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.440 cram in both because you think you'll never go back 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.800 over there as foolish. You know, once you go to one, 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:30.919 you'd be like, oh, now we want to go to 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.159 the other. So I would never try to put both together. 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.120 I did the very first time I went. It was 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:38.640 in the middle of building high Point. I had the 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.960 winter off with nothing to do, and I went down 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.560 there for like over March, my birthdays in March, and 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:51.080 I was in Australia for like three weeks, Melbourne, Adelaide, Sydney. 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.280 There wasn't anything in Tesnan to go see then, and 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.159 then stop through New Zealand for a week on the 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.840 way back, and I felt like I saw most everything 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:02.839 I wanted to see on Australia, but I felt like 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.760 I didn't even scratch New Zealand. I didn't get to 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:09.200 the South Island at all. And like, you know, people 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.600 in New Zealand will tell you you're here and you're 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.279 not going to the South Island? Are you stupid? You know, 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.560 that's that's their idea of you should spend all your 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:19.120 time down there if you could. 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.960 That's in researching New Zealand. Like most of the almost 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.400 all the golfs on the North Island that you have 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.479 to see, But then you look at the South Island 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.520 and you're like, well, I want to spend like two 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.320 weeks there playing very little golf and doing all the 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:37.680 other stuff, and it's like, I mean, it looks like. 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:38.680 Just an amazing place. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.599 Yeah, and New Zealand is it's tougher to travel too, 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.880 because it's bigger. You know, it's like the whole West 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:46.680 coast of them. You know, it's like trying to see 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.720 all from Vancouver all the way to San Diego or 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.839 a Baja on one trip. That's a big trip. And 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.680 you can there's good little commuter flights, so you can 0:05:55.800 --> 0:06:00.280 bounce around and see some things, but nearly everything you're 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.919 going to want to see is a four hour drive 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.719 or a six hour drive away from the next place, 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.320 and you know, you just spend a lot of time 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.360 in the car, which is not really how you want 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:13.200 to experience New Zealand. 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:18.359 I hadn't planned to ask this, but how would you 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:24.280 prioritize regions of the UK? Like, is there if you 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.800 were on a golf like you wanted to see the 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:32.480 greatest links courses in the world. Is there like an 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.400 order that you would go in if you were if 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.360 you were thinking about it, if you had, you know, 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.800 think back to like I'm twenty five or I'm thirty, 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.400 or I'm thirty five, I'm really into golf architecture, but 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.920 I've never been there right where? How would you kind 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.920 of like lay out the next thirty years of your 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:55.600 life of like taking a trip every couple of years. 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:56.560 Instead of doing it all in one year. Like just 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:58.480 you didn't win. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.280 The Drill Award. You don't get to do it all 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:00.800 in one year. 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:03.919 You have a you have a life and you're just trying, 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:08.159 like how would you prioritize you need to go here, here, here, here, 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:09.760 Like how how would you do? 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.040 Think it's a lot easier when I didn't have a 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:19.200 life that I have plenty of time. All I mean 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:23.040 for me and I think for a for most people, 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:28.120 the starter trip is go to go to He's Lothian 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:32.560 in St Andrews, you know. That's that's the big first 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:39.240 step and the heart, you know, and then after that, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.280 probably the most popular thing now is to go north 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.400 to see Dornick and Castle Stuart and Cruden Bay and 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:49.400 all those places, and the West coast kind of gets 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:51.920 overlooked a little bit now. I think that. I don't think, 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.800 you know, it's it's not really that far from Saint Andrews. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:00.800 But if you're if you're only going for a or 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.240 you know, ten days, including a weekend, I would not 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.560 I don't think I would go. I don't think I 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.840 would do Saint Andrew's in all of East Lothian and 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:14.240 then try to go to Prestwick and True on the 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.760 same trip, even though it's only like a couple three 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.840 hours to get over there. So that's one. I hadn't 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.000 been back there in a long long time until I 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:26.960 took Brian zaig Or a year ago when we were 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.720 over because I wanted to Prestwick had the twelve hole 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.600 original course set up then and I really wanted to 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:35.840 see that. But it's the first time i'd been back 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.280 there and walked around. First time it seemed Turnberry in 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:44.840 like thirty years. So that's three separate trips. I think 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.280 those are your first three. No, maybe not the first. 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.240 I mean to do all those before you go to 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.160 Ireland at all, or before you go see anything in England. 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.199 I don't know, probably not. You know, if you want to, 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:01.800 if you want to get a sense of the variety, 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.480 you either do the north part of Ireland or the 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.480 southwest part of Ireland before you cross all of Scotland 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:13.520 off your list, because you know, some people enjoy Ireland more. 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.480 It's definitely a different style golf, like a different I 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.040 feel like it's just like the culture of golf's a 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.880 little it's just a little different in Ireland than Scotland. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.200 The culture of golf is a little different. The courses 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:31.720 are different, they're not as different. You know, the north 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.800 of Scotland, Dornick and Cruden Bay, those are a little 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.000 more like Irish courses just because there's views. You get 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:39.880 up in the dunes and you can see the water, 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:44.000 whereas traditional links courses you really don't very much. And 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.439 the Irish courses are the opit. You know, they're just spectacular. 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.360 They're they're up in the dunes and falling off a 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:55.920 cliff into the into the ocean. So you know what 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.160 order you do them in. I don't think it really 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.360 matters that much. And then you know, there's a lot 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.720 of little areas of England that I have I have 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.800 not gotten back to a lot of those places at 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.480 all in the last thirty years because I've had work 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:15.960 in He's Loathing, I've had work in Ireland, I've had 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:20.040 work in the North of Scotland, and I just keep 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.360 going back to them. But honestly, you know, if you 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.520 told me I how weak right now, I'd go back 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.559 to Rye and I go back to West Sussex and 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:34.280 all that stuff south of London. There's some great golf there, 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.080 and I just, you know, it seems like that's the 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.200 most overlooked thing to do. You know, you said links golf, 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.280 and if you're talking about links golf, that part of 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.319 England is just Deal and Sandwich maybe Princes. I don't 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:49.959 know what they've done with it. I know they've changed 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.360 Princes since I saw it. And Rye and those are 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.560 about the only links courses down there that you're going 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:57.840 to think about. Seand but to get to do some 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.720 of those hands, some of those Heathland horses, that's a 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:06.280 great Trip's that's like arguably as good a trip as 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.120 any of those other ones that I talked about, and 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:09.600 people do not think about that. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.880 I think they're a little bit less promotional. 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:16.920 Oh way. You know, there's there's there's an Irish golf 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:22.840 tourist board almost and you know, Scottish golf. Scottish tourism 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.360 promotes the heck out of golf. It's their main thing, 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.840 and that I don't even know if there's an English 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.280 tourist board at all. They certainly don't promote golf in England, 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:40.000 which is you know, most of those clubs will accommodate 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.640 overseas visitors, but it's not their main business. It's not 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.160 how they make most of their money like it is 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:47.319 in Scotland and Ireland. 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:53.120 It's almost like a hybrid there of like the American 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.320 and Scotland model, where you have like the clubs are 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.200 a little bit more exclusive, but they still retain some 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:02.280 playing abilities. 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.439 But you know, it's it's kind. 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:08.200 Of like it's just it's almost like the evolution of 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:13.240 golf is Scotland clubs, Scottish clubs, Irish clubs to English 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.120 clubs to American clubs. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.520 You know, Yeah, in terms of the structure, and you know, 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.080 some of it's just economics. I mean, clubs around London 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:27.160 can can charge more than eight hundred pounds a year 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:30.320 to their members without you know, nobody's going to complain 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.640 about it down there the way they would in Scotland 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.920 or Ireland. You know, in Scotland and Ireland they're very 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.640 spoiled on never having paid a lot in greens fees. 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:43.400 You know, back in the day they subsisted on that 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.360 and the golf courses weren't in great shape, but it 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:47.240 was fine because that's what you know, it only costs 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.920 as much. Nobody complained about the conditions, and very importantly, 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:54.760 you don't complain about the conditions if you play match 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:56.600 play all the time because the other guy's doing the 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.520 same exact thing. You know, it's much different once once 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:01.520 you're keeping a card. 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.520 H Yeah, that's completely true. 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:06.640 One of the other things with the England that I'm 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:11.240 kind of I think probably lends to the uniqueness of 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.280 it is the different eras of golf design, right, you 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:18.200 get kind of that. You know, it would coincide a 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.640 little bit with American Golden Age. It probably is the 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.520 golden age of their design period. But then you also 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.440 have kind of the old links courses, right. 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:32.160 Yes, I mean you know all the links courses have 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.959 such a long pedigree. You know, a place like Mirrorfield. 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.400 Colt worked on a one point, Simpson worked on at 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.080 a one point. You know, old tam Ore has worked 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.640 on a one point. You know, not many people go 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:45.880 there and try to pick that apart at all. It's 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.439 just like, well it's old, you know, it's it's it's 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.240 an old thing and it's evolved, and you know, nobody 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.880 and nobody would ever think on those links courses of 0:13:54.960 --> 0:14:00.360 trying to restore them to Simpsons version or Colts version exactly. 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.439 It's like, you know, we think we've made improvements along 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:07.920 the way. Whereas you know, around London or some of 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:13.120 the only examples of like Herbert Fowler's work, or Simpson's 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.680 work or or Colt's work that are just still pretty 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.080 much their original work and they haven't been changed very much. 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.800 Is very different for over there, they don't. Golf architect 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:33.760 are not as revered and and golf architecture is not 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.240 so precious to them because most golf courses have been 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:42.320 most links courses have been changed several times. That's just 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.240 part of the part of the deal because they were 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:49.840 all built for hickorys or for something before that. 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:55.520 Even you just finished a couple of days at San Valley, 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.080 you got to play Sage for really the first time. 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.960 What were your takeaways from playing the golf course? 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:05.440 And what. 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.120 As an architect, what are you what do you think 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.640 about when you're playing a golf course that you built 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:13.760 for really the first time. 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.600 Well, first shout out to Michael Kaiser who sent the 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.720 plane over to pick us up in Traverse City and 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.920 go over there. It's funny, you know, between Lido and Sedge, 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:28.840 I drove around Lake Michigan through the up like about 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:34.200 ten times over three years. And and you know that's 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.440 a seven and a half hour drive if you don't 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:37.800 take a break, and. 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.640 It's it's a pretty drive, but I could it's a. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.720 Long, pretty drive, but it's a long drive. And my 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.840 body's getting older. And you know last week we jumped 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:49.760 and jumped in the plane and we were we were 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.080 in Wisconsin rapids in thirty two minutes, and it's like, ooh, 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.360 this is easy. Can't get used to this. 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.040 But it could become a pilot and you could get 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:00.480 like just assessmin. 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.320 No as much easier when they just pick you up, 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:06.880 take you, drop you off, don't have to worry about 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:13.240 any of the other stuff. So, you know, it used 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:15.680 to be one of the first ten golf courses I built. 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.800 The biggest day was the first day the superintendent coy 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:20.760 holes and we got to go play the golf course 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.000 because one of you know, usually there would be four 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:25.240 of us play in and one of us is going 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.080 to have the course record, might be seventy nine, but 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:32.280 somebody was going to have the course record. And you know, 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.800 nowadays I'm almost never there for that. You know, the 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.920 client sneaks out with somebody to do it first so 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.640 they can they can do it, and I'm not in town, 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:48.600 so instead of that, you know, it's not usually you know, 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.480 usually I'll have gone and played the golf course once, 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.480 like right about when it opens, like we did for 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.680 a media day in Pinehurst this summer, but then I 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.880 won't have played. That's the only time I've played Pineers 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.280 number ten so far until we have the Renaissance Cup 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:09.199 on it in November, and usually that's when all my 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.880 crew gets back to see it for the first time 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.520 and play it, and that's a lot of fun. But 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:16.680 to take the whole crew to Sedge for a couple 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:21.360 of days and just play, just just us was really special, 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:26.119 and we hit it perfect weather midweek it wasn't quite 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.600 as busy as normal, so we you know, we weren't 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.720 really waiting on any big felt like we had it 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.440 to ourselves. Even though they did about one hundred rounds 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.480 a day for the two days. They space the tea 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.879 times a little further apart this year to just you know, 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.359 kind of throttle play a little bit because because a 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.920 lot of times they're putting so much traffic on fescue 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.639 fairways that first year, it really does a lot of damage. 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.440 And I'll tell you what the difference between twelve minute 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.040 tea times instead of ten minute tea times is you 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.120 just feel like you have the course to yourself. You don't, 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.399 you're not waiting on anybody. It was amazingly different. But 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.959 the superintendent was like, yeah, it'd be nice if they 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.600 kept it, but we you know, we've calculated that's about 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.840 a million and a half dollars and tea times lost, 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.320 you know, not having one more tea time every hour 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.000 all season. There was a lot of money, so it's 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.199 probably not gonna stay there for very much longer, but 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:21.840 it was great. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.600 I'll never forget. I did a Michigan trip. 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.359 This was like shortly after college, and we played you 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:29.600 know a lot of places. 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.679 It was Arcadie, it was Arcadia Bluffs. 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.280 I mean, this was like two thousand and nine ish. 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.000 We played up at Belvidere. We played, and then we 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.439 came back and we played. On the way back, we 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:48.040 stopped at Harbor Shores and the they did fifteen minute 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.919 tea time intervals and after like after like five or 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:56.639 six rounds of golf on like ten to eight minute intervals, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.720 that fifteen minute it was insane and it was like, 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:00.879 why can't And it's. 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.040 Like, well, there's a drawback to that. 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.880 You deliver an exceptional customer experience, but it comes at 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:07.280 a cost. 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.000 Yeah, and if you charge, you know, you could charge 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:14.520 more to make the experience better, but pretty quickly after 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.200 that you'd be like, well, we could just charge more 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:16.760 all the time. 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:22.200 So it's like the Pebble Beach conundrum right where it's 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.679 like they charge a lot, they charge a lot for 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.199 everything on property, but people are aligned enough to do 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:31.919 it right. So what were your takeaways on the on 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.520 the golf course, like what I guess we could start 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:38.800 with like the the general stuff, but then I think, 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.840 like I'd love to hear if if there were things 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.240 that you weren't necessarily sure of that worked really well, 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.200 or things that you might have thought didn't work great. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.560 Well. You know. I mean, I've been asking people all 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.800 summer if they say they've gone and play to like, 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.639 how is the pace to play? I don't realize they 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.639 had the ta tons spaced out as much. But you know, 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.680 we've been We've been a little concern from the beginning 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.080 about having those you know, five through eight on the 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:11.879 front nine with a lot of part threes. And I 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.399 haven't been too concerned about it because it's like, yeah, 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:17.000 it's gonna get held up somewhere, but it can't get 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.600 held up everywhere. You know, You've only got so many 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.879 people out there. If you're you know, if I'm waiting 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:26.600 on the sixty and then those guys because I think 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:28.480 I might drive the green and then those people go 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.280 up to seven, I'm probably not going to be waiting 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.639 on them there so so and no sign of that 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.159 at all. You know. I've asked a lot of people 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:40.920 did they feel like it was a shorter golf course. 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:44.680 Did they miss not having the par fives? Never thought 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:48.080 about it playing the golf it. Never didn't think about 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.360 that for one second when I was actually playing. It's 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:56.000 just like one good hole after another, and some of 0:20:56.040 --> 0:21:01.680 the flatter or more subtle holes that we built turn 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.440 out really good. Number two's a great hole. Number nine 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:06.280 is a really cool hole when they move the pin 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:11.320 around to different spots. The tenth green is pretty wild. 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:18.080 Eleven is a really good par five. Pretty tough hole, 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.199 but there's a lot going on there. You know. 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.199 One thing with ten that I didn't realize until I 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:26.320 was photographing it, And I think, like one of the 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:28.919 things I think about a lot is like everybody's always 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:33.080 on me about like you shouldn't be doing the drone photography. 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:37.600 We have like two wonderful drone pilots, Matt and Cameron, 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.280 who do a great job, but I still do a 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.600 lot of droning. And one of the things that I 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:47.040 tell people is like if I drone and photographic golf course, 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.520 I understand it way more than if I just play it. 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:55.600 One of my big takeaways how amazing that it's flat 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.159 and nobody would think of it as an amazing green site. 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.640 But that tenth green it backs up on the ridge 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.520 like it abuts that ridge that's above what is that 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:10.679 the seventh green eight green that when you move that 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.159 pin back, I haven't played a backpin there it. I 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:15.640 mean you fall off the face of the earth behind it. 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:19.280 It's like a pretty epic like back green site. And 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:21.160 it's like you would think of it as a flatter 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:23.600 part of the property, but there is a really nice 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:26.200 ridge at the back of that green when that pins back. 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:28.879 Yeah, and now that you mentioned it, the pin was 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:32.040 fairly far back one day, but we still we probably 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.359 still got more trees to take out back there, so 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:38.080