Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast. The questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph
Speaker 1: and best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 2: Hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlin, I bought a bus. Do you
Speaker 2: want to drive through the Australian out Back with me?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 4: But I don't have a driver's license, so you will
Speaker 4: be doing all of the driving. I'll just be drinking
Speaker 4: slowly in the back.
Speaker 5: If that's okay with.
Speaker 2: You, Well, I will also be drinking question Mark, because
Speaker 2: Hugo Weaving's character is like, I'll have a Long Island
Speaker 2: iced tea even though he was driving. It's desert rules.
Speaker 4: I feel like it's almost Vegas rules for DUIs.
Speaker 5: And I'm kidding. It seems like they could really have
Speaker 5: fallen in a hole and died.
Speaker 2: It seems like it. But I think when we inevitably
Speaker 2: tour in Australia someday, hopefully we should do it the
Speaker 2: way they do it in the movie.
Speaker 5: We should do it bus style.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I'm going in hard pro Abba.
Speaker 5: Well, same same, Bernadette.
Speaker 4: You would have hated Mama Mia hated it.
Speaker 5: Yes, I think it's funny that they're like duking it that.
Speaker 4: I don't know if Priscilla, Queen of the Desert is
Speaker 4: still on Broadway, but it was on Broadway for some time,
Speaker 4: and just having Priscilla and Mama Mia duking it out
Speaker 4: on Broadway just feels appropriate, feels beautiful.
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, I love that. Anyways.
Speaker 4: Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My
Speaker 4: name's Jamie Loftus.
Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Durante. This is our show where
Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Speaker 2: Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point. We're just
Speaker 2: trying to get the conversation going. But Jamie, what's the
Speaker 2: Bechdel Test?
Speaker 5: Wow? I can tell you.
Speaker 4: It is a media metric creative by queer cartoonist Alison
Speaker 4: Bechdel off and called the Bechdel Wallace Test due to
Speaker 4: it was co created with Alison Bechdell's friend Liz Wallace.
Speaker 4: Was originally made as a sort of one off joke
Speaker 4: in Alison Bechdell's great comic series Dikes To Watch Out For.
Speaker 4: It was originally written not just to talk about how
Speaker 4: infrequently characters of marginalized genders speak to each other in movies,
Speaker 4: but also in a queer context that has sort of
Speaker 4: been stripped back in the mainstream interpretation of this test.
Speaker 5: Lots of versions of it.
Speaker 4: The one we use require us that two characters of
Speaker 4: a marginalized gender with names speak to each other for
Speaker 4: more than two lines of dialogue, and it cannot be
Speaker 4: about a man.
Speaker 5: And yeah, that's the test. It sure is.
Speaker 4: Honestly, I was just really enjoying right before we start
Speaker 4: recording an article written about the search for the bus,
Speaker 4: which of all the micro discussions to have about this movie.
Speaker 4: I appreciate that there is a long essay in The
Speaker 4: Guardian about finding the bus.
Speaker 5: It took thirty year, but they found the bus. I
Speaker 5: love that.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 2: Priscilla is a character I think when they drive Priscilla
Speaker 2: that passes the Bechdel test. I can't explain how or why,
Speaker 2: but it does. Yeah, Priscilla's an important member of the cast.
Speaker 5: I'm so excited for this episode.
Speaker 4: It has been a long time request and we just
Speaker 4: have sort of been waiting for the right guest, the
Speaker 4: right moment, and it's happened and we're.
Speaker 5: Here, so let's get our guests in here.
Speaker 2: Let's do it. He's a writer, YouTuber and podcaster.
Speaker 5: It's Matt Baum.
Speaker 3: Hello, welcome, Hi, Hello, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, we're big fans. We cite you. I
Speaker 4: feel like every other week.
Speaker 3: Oh yay, I'm big fans of the show too, so
Speaker 3: I'm delighted we could be. I don't know, we can
Speaker 3: have this mutual admiration going on.
Speaker 2: Do you want to come with us on our bus
Speaker 2: tour around Australia.
Speaker 3: On our scary buzz Oh for sure, yes, yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm very much when I travel. I'm very into like
Speaker 3: preparation and lists and making sure everybody has what they need.
Speaker 3: Like I'm the one with the sunscreen, the electrolytes and
Speaker 3: everything so and I don't drink, so like you could
Speaker 3: be handling the stolely and I'll just be back there
Speaker 3: making sure everybody's got gatorade and they've got cold compresses.
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh you gotta come, you gotta come.
Speaker 3: I would have like folding bikes in the back of
Speaker 3: the bus for when the bus breaks down. We're like,
Speaker 3: all right now we're just biking to Alice Springs.
Speaker 4: Right, perfect, we have like thermal suits to prevent the
Speaker 4: heat exhaustion.
Speaker 5: Like it's all good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, love it.
Speaker 2: So Matt, tell us about your relationship with this movie.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, we've both seen your video about it
Speaker 4: from Gosh a couple of years ago now, but yeah,
Speaker 4: what's your history.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I did a video on YouTube, because
Speaker 3: that's where I spent so much of my time. I
Speaker 3: did a video on YouTube about Priscilla, but I didn't
Speaker 3: really talk in that video about it's like meaning to me,
Speaker 3: which is when I was a teenager in the nineties
Speaker 3: in suburban Connecticut. This was like my most intense I
Speaker 3: don't know, like locusts of queer energy. Because it was
Speaker 3: on VH one late at night. They had segments between
Speaker 3: at the commercial breaks that were hosted by RuPaul. So
Speaker 3: RuPaul would come on and like she'd have some comment
Speaker 3: about the movie. She'd mentioned something about like the costume
Speaker 3: designer wearing a dress made of like mex gold cards,
Speaker 3: and you know, she'd like throw out all this like
Speaker 3: fun trivia stuff, and this was so much more gay
Speaker 3: anything that I was getting anywhere else. So Priscilla really was,
Speaker 3: you know, an entry point for me into queer culture.
Speaker 3: Like I'd read a little bit about like the Stonewall
Speaker 3: Riots and history and serious stuff, but seeing that like,
Speaker 3: oh and this is fun too. Not just fun, but
Speaker 3: there's others out there and you can have a party
Speaker 3: and you can find like a neighborhood where you belong.
Speaker 3: There was so much packed into this film.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, Jamie, what's your relationship?
Speaker 4: My relationship is? I saw it starting pretty young. My
Speaker 4: aunt had a copy of it, I think on maybe
Speaker 4: on VHS something like that, and it sort of was
Speaker 4: like a fun comfort movie.
Speaker 5: This movie and The Bird Cage.
Speaker 4: Were both I think the Bird Cage did ultimately get
Speaker 4: the heavier play, but I yeah, I watched this movie
Speaker 4: once every couple of years for.
Speaker 5: A long time, and it's always interesting to revisit.
Speaker 4: I feel like every time I revisit it, you know,
Speaker 4: you get something new out of it. It's certainly a
Speaker 4: product of it's time and with the old discuss.
Speaker 5: But I really love it.
Speaker 4: I also just love a road movie, like it's just
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's This movie is a blast, and
Speaker 4: I think the performances are wonderful. And to prepare for
Speaker 4: this because I had just watched Priscilla a couple of
Speaker 4: months ago and found a documentary that was produced about
Speaker 4: the history of it that is narrated by Terrence Stamp.
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, I just watched that on like, yeah one
Speaker 2: point seven five Speed on YouTube.
Speaker 4: I've done that, Yeah, because I've also talked about this
Speaker 4: movie on a different podcast, So I like had just
Speaker 4: watched it and rewatched it, and it's a really sweet
Speaker 4: documentary and I think it's very funny that, you know,
Speaker 4: it's like Terrence Stamp is kind of like the number
Speaker 4: one fan Priscilla.
Speaker 5: He's like, I'm going to narrate it. But yeah, I
Speaker 5: mean learning about the production of this movie sort of
Speaker 5: made me appreciate.
Speaker 4: It in ways I didn't know because not only I mean,
Speaker 4: was there certainly major spots I wasn't aware of with
Speaker 4: queer culture when I first watched this movie as a kid,
Speaker 4: but also there's a lot about Australian culture that I
Speaker 4: did not know or understand, and I think if you're
Speaker 4: not Australian and you would just completely miss it. So
Speaker 4: I learned a lot, and so yeah, I'm really excited
Speaker 4: to talk about it on this show.
Speaker 5: There's so much to talk about. Caitlyn what's your history
Speaker 5: with Priscilla.
Speaker 2: I had only seen this once before when I was
Speaker 2: watching the hundreds of movies when I first started film
Speaker 2: school in the mid two thousands, so I had heard
Speaker 2: about it and I was like, oh, I know that
Speaker 2: this is like an iconic entry into queer cinema, and
Speaker 2: I really liked it. I thought it was such a
Speaker 2: fun romp of the other queer movies I had seen.
Speaker 2: It was tonally lighter than so many of them. That
Speaker 2: and the bird Cage were too that I saw around
Speaker 2: the same time as well, and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: it's it's so refreshing to see these movies that like
Speaker 2: celebrate queer joy. But I didn't watch it again for
Speaker 2: some reason, and I didn't remember a lot about it
Speaker 2: going into this rewatch, except for I remembered the abba
Speaker 2: piece of poo in the vial.
Speaker 5: I mean, unforgettable, unforgettable.
Speaker 2: I remembered some of the iconic imagery as far as
Speaker 2: like the I think it's the Felicia character on the
Speaker 2: roof of the bus with like the flowing thing behind,
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 4: The costumes are unbelievable, and the one that all sticks
Speaker 4: me is the flip flop dress, the flip flap dress
Speaker 4: is my favor.
Speaker 5: Flip flop dress is so good.
Speaker 2: I remembered the ping pong ball scene.
Speaker 5: We'll get to that. Oh my god, the ping pong
Speaker 5: ball scene. This was the first viewing where I really
Speaker 5: truly recognized the weird sound effect they added in post.
Speaker 4: You know, when you're shooting a ping pong ball and
Speaker 4: if you're pussy and it goes booo like, it's like
Speaker 4: a little fish blowing up bubble disgusting, disgusting.
Speaker 5: We'll talk about it.
Speaker 4: But anyways, if no one has ever recognized the weird
Speaker 4: like ping pong ball ejection dot MP three they put
Speaker 4: in there, it's there multiple times, and you're.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, why, it's wild. Anyway, So I remembered a
Speaker 2: few of those iconic moments, but I forgot a lot
Speaker 2: else about it. So it was really fun to revisit
Speaker 2: and be reminded of some of the things that are
Speaker 2: really fun and great about this movie and some of
Speaker 2: the things that don't hold up so well and sert
Speaker 2: ping pong ball dot MP three.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Should we get into the recap and we'll go
Speaker 2: from there.
Speaker 4: Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Okay, So we are in Sydney, Australia, I ever heard
Speaker 2: of heard of it?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Wow, wow, huh it Actually it looks really appealing, you know,
Speaker 3: And I didn't get the first time I watched the
Speaker 3: movie when I was a teenager, I was like, why
Speaker 3: are they so down on this place? There's a game
Speaker 3: more and they're like it. There's people who are like
Speaker 3: waving goodbye when they leave, like it seems nice, and
Speaker 3: I just I didn't get like why they were why
Speaker 3: they had Sydney fatigue.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think that's one of the things that you need
Speaker 3: like Australian context to really appreciate.
Speaker 5: It kind of reminded me.
Speaker 4: I mean, just like my relationship with like I guess
Speaker 4: I've only really lived in like two big cities, but
Speaker 4: like both times, you know, you have days where you're
Speaker 4: like this place is a shithole, this place is cooked, and.
Speaker 5: Then someone visits and they're like, wow, this is the
Speaker 5: most beautiful.
Speaker 4: You know, You're like, oh, yeah, I guess, I guess
Speaker 4: I sort of forget that there is beautiful things around
Speaker 4: me because I'm so annoyed with everyone all the time.
Speaker 3: I could relate with that exactly. Yeah, that grass is
Speaker 3: greener of the grass is Always Greener. Yeah, Yeah, what's
Speaker 3: that movie that. It's about like a bunch of people
Speaker 3: who get trapped in an explosion in the Lincoln Tunnel
Speaker 3: or something like that. It's from like the early nineties.
Speaker 5: Going on Daylight. Sylvester salone, right, that sounds right.
Speaker 3: It starts like all these people like it just random
Speaker 3: people entering the Link tunnel in or which whichever, I
Speaker 3: don't know, whichever one it was. And one of them
Speaker 3: is this woman who's moving out of New York and
Speaker 3: she like her whole like little car, it's like a gremlin,
Speaker 3: is like loaded up with every possession and she's like
Speaker 3: screamingly furious at New York and she's driving to the town.
Speaker 3: She's like, I've had it up to hair with all
Speaker 3: your shit, New York. Like it's her introduction to that character.
Speaker 3: That's kind of how these these drag queens feel to me.
Speaker 3: At the start of the movie.
Speaker 5: They're done, they're done.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh. Anyway, so we're in We're in Sydney, and
Speaker 2: we open on a drag show where drag queens Mitzi
Speaker 2: played by Hugo Weaving and Felicia played by Guy Peers
Speaker 2: are performing. But the crowd is lackluster, if not hostile
Speaker 2: toward them.
Speaker 5: They're throwing cans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're like, we're sick of this shit. And
Speaker 2: then Mitzi, who also goes by the name Tick, receives
Speaker 2: a call from a woman who we don't yet know
Speaker 2: who this is, who pitches something to Mitzi off screen.
Speaker 2: Mitzi seems down for it, then calls her friend, Bernadette
Speaker 2: played by Terence Stamp, whose husband had just died.
Speaker 5: Her husband her what's her husband's name? Her husband has
Speaker 5: kind of a weird name.
Speaker 4: It's like tuba, trombone, trombone, trumpet, trump some brass instrument,
Speaker 4: and you're like, is this.
Speaker 5: An Australia thing? Can you just be named Trumpet?
Speaker 2: So we learned that Bernadette's her husband Trumpet, has just
Speaker 2: passed away. So Mitzi and Felicia attend the funeral. Also,
Speaker 2: it's worth noting here that Bernadette is a trans woman.
Speaker 2: Mitzi and Felicia are, as far as we know, CIS
Speaker 2: men who are drag performers. I will probably just refer
Speaker 2: to them as Mitzi and Felicia, although they are also
Speaker 2: known as Tick and Adam anyway. So they attend the
Speaker 2: funeral where Mitzi invites Bernadette to come along on an
Speaker 2: upcoming tour I guess, a road trip to Alice Springs,
Speaker 2: which is in the outback, for a string of shows
Speaker 2: that will begin in a few weeks. And Mitzi also
Speaker 2: invites Felicia to Bernadette's dismay, because she thinks Felicia is
Speaker 2: a bit.
Speaker 5: Much not entirely wrong.
Speaker 2: She's correct, So Felicia provides the transportation for this trip.
Speaker 2: Because Felicia buys a bus with her like homophobic mombs
Speaker 2: money yeah, and names it Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.
Speaker 2: They pack up, they load into Priscilla the bus, and
Speaker 2: they head out on the road. They're driving, they're singing,
Speaker 2: they're chatting. Bernadette and Felicia are not getting along. This
Speaker 2: is the start of Felicia dead naming Bernadette, a trend
Speaker 2: which happens throughout the movie. We'll talk about that. Then
Speaker 2: Mitzi reveals the reason she got this gig in Alice Springs,
Speaker 2: which is that her wife, her wife, her his wife
Speaker 2: offered up the gig at this hotel that I think
Speaker 2: hotel Casino.
Speaker 3: Ye things, yeah, she runs this like I think Casino
Speaker 3: is probably a resort it's yeah, yeah, I like that.
Speaker 3: I get the impression that, like Alice Springs, I don't
Speaker 3: know that this is exactly right, but it's sort of
Speaker 3: like Bronson, Missouri, Like it's a lower tier, middle of
Speaker 3: the country sort of destination. That's right, not too expensive it,
Speaker 3: but it's also like there's more culture than you'll find
Speaker 3: if you go like twenty miles outside of it, so
Speaker 3: it's sort of like a little a little oasis.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that feels right.
Speaker 4: I mean, and Australian listeners feel free to correct us,
Speaker 4: but that did feel right. I don't know, especially based
Speaker 4: on the reaction towards the end spoiler alert, when Bernadette
Speaker 4: decides to stay there, moving from Sydney and everyone's like, what.
Speaker 5: The fuck are you talking?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So Mitsi reveals this about having a wife,
Speaker 2: and the other two are shocked. They didn't know about
Speaker 2: this wife, who Mitsi is estranged from. Felicia keeps ragging
Speaker 2: on Mitzi about it. Then they stop in a small town.
Speaker 2: Mitzi and Felicia are both in just wild drag costumes.
Speaker 2: This is where we see the flip flop dress. Felicia
Speaker 2: is in this like blue plastic wig and they go
Speaker 2: out to a bar, and many of the townspeople are
Speaker 2: very you know, queer phobic toward them, but then the
Speaker 2: group mostly warms up to the trio, although the following
Speaker 2: morning they wake up to see that Priscilla the bus
Speaker 2: has been vandalized with a homophobic slur painted across the
Speaker 2: side of the bus. Felicia also dead names Bernadette again,
Speaker 2: and she understandably lashes out at Felicia. They set off again,
Speaker 2: taking a shortcut on a dirt road, but oh no,
Speaker 2: oh no, Priscilla the bus breaks down, so Bernadette sets
Speaker 2: off on foot into the desert to try to find
Speaker 2: some help. Meanwhile, Felicia paints over the vandalism on the bus,
Speaker 2: turning Priscilla into a like pinkish color.
Speaker 5: That is not what lavender is, that's.
Speaker 3: True, Actually, lavender I think would be a little more blue.
Speaker 4: The yeah, but whatever, but at this point I don't
Speaker 4: want to encourage anymore infighting on this bus, Like, fine.
Speaker 2: Fine, what you want. And then Bernadette eventually comes back
Speaker 2: with help, although the man sees Mitzi in drag and
Speaker 2: immediately speeds off, so they're stranded still and they use
Speaker 2: the time to start rehearsing for the upcoming shows. Then
Speaker 2: a man named Alan played by Alan Dargan. Dargan finds
Speaker 2: the trio and brings them to a party that he
Speaker 2: and his friends and family are having in the desert. Mitzy, Bernadette,
Speaker 2: and Felicia put on a little show for the group.
Speaker 2: Alan gets into drag and joins them. The next day,
Speaker 2: Alan helps them get a tow truck and then disappears
Speaker 2: from the movie.
Speaker 5: I wish Alan went with that. I know, it felt
Speaker 5: like the movie setting it up for Alan to come
Speaker 5: with and it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I really want the Alan story, Like
Speaker 3: they they've opened his eyes and he's open theirs and
Speaker 3: now I don't know, they part ways and the camera
Speaker 3: goes with our heroes. But I just I want another
Speaker 3: movie where it goes with him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been off. He was a natural.
Speaker 2: Mm.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So then they get a toe from a guy named
Speaker 2: Bob played by Bill Hunter to this small town. The
Speaker 2: trio has dinner with Bob and his wife Cynthia played
Speaker 2: by Julia Cortez who Bob is very cruel too, and
Speaker 2: we will talk about that as well. But Bob suggests
Speaker 2: the trio perform their show at a local pub and
Speaker 2: They're like, I don't know if this town is gonna
Speaker 2: go for the type of show that we do, and
Speaker 2: Bob is like, no, it'll be fine. I for one
Speaker 2: love drag shows. He was a fan of the Lay
Speaker 2: Girls from back in the day when he used to
Speaker 2: live Sydney, and he's like, no, it'll be great. So
Speaker 2: the trio does their show and sure enough, the audience
Speaker 2: hates it, but they're interrupted when Cynthia comes into the
Speaker 2: bar proceeds to get on stage, put ping pong balls
Speaker 2: into her vagina and then pop them back out again,
Speaker 2: and everyone is.
Speaker 4: Like woohoo, Encore. I mean, an impressive feat. But we'll circle.
Speaker 3: Back to it. Yes, I gotta say this scene was
Speaker 3: absolutely befuddling to me when I saw it as a teenager.
Speaker 3: Because VH one trimmed it. There was a little bit
Speaker 3: of a made for cable edit here that made the
Speaker 3: scene absolutely more mystifying. It was mortifying and mystifying, and
Speaker 3: I could tell that something like embarrassing had happened, but
Speaker 3: enough of the scene had been chopped out that it
Speaker 3: was totally totally befuddling. So I gotta say, like, once
Speaker 3: I finally saw that the proper movie like I actually
Speaker 3: got it on VHS. Actually the movie I was like,
Speaker 3: oh okay, But otherwise it just seems like she shows up,
Speaker 3: everybody cheers, and then everyone gets met, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: why is Felicia cackling and why are they so stunned?
Speaker 5: Like what is happening?
Speaker 3: She's just dancing?
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, that's I mean, having pulled things out of
Speaker 4: my vagina on stage many times before the raw launch
Speaker 4: that Cynthia is able to do.
Speaker 5: I you know, the keegel drop, the hints drop that,
Speaker 5: I know the keegel I like, I was fascined.
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously you could tell from the cinematography did
Speaker 4: not happen because of ping pong ejection dot MP three,
Speaker 4: But it was like, is it possible?
Speaker 3: Could it be done?
Speaker 2: What's the movie where there's a character on stage you
Speaker 2: see them like spread eagle, and it seems like ping
Speaker 2: pong balls are shooting out of this character's vagina, But
Speaker 2: then it cuts to the like reverse angle, and it
Speaker 2: you just see that character like hitting.
Speaker 5: A ping pong ball.
Speaker 2: Movies with hitting the ping pong balls with a ping
Speaker 2: pong paddle, and so the joke is like, oh, you
Speaker 2: think the balls are coming out of the vagina, but
Speaker 2: they're just hitting them with a paddle.
Speaker 5: What movie is this? Does anyone know? No idea?
Speaker 3: I would like to watch it? Yeah? Was this more
Speaker 3: of a thing? Was this a reference people to be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: that thing?
Speaker 4: I hope that this is the kind of thing where
Speaker 4: our listeners are like, you didn't know about that.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've seen this referred to in other
Speaker 2: And I don't know if Priscilla quin in the Desert
Speaker 2: is like the genesis of this, like patient zero.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but like I definitely have seen it referred to
Speaker 5: in other things.
Speaker 3: Wow. I will say I went to a show this
Speaker 3: many years ago at Acbar in La It was an
Speaker 3: AS themed art show and there was a performance by
Speaker 3: somebody who comes out. There's a stage, we're all sitting
Speaker 3: in the audience. There's I don't know, like twenty five
Speaker 3: people in the audience, and so this person comes out
Speaker 3: and lays down a drop cloth and we're like, what's
Speaker 3: coming next? And then they come out and very very
Speaker 3: deliberately put down these little paint squeezy paint bottles with
Speaker 3: like it looks kind of like in a kitchen when
Speaker 3: you have like the squeeze bottles with like the plastic lid,
Speaker 3: you know, the nozzle on top, very deliberately lays them
Speaker 3: down their full of pain around the edge of the stage.
Speaker 3: We're like, what is happening here? They remove their clothes
Speaker 3: and then they very deliberately insert the paint into themselves
Speaker 3: and then silently, by the way, there's no sound happening,
Speaker 3: they move from corner to corner to corner of the
Speaker 3: drop cloth and create a work of art by ejecting
Speaker 3: the paint onto the drop cloth. And amazing, I will
Speaker 3: tell you the you could have heard a pin drop
Speaker 3: from the audience. We were transfixed by this artwork. And
Speaker 3: then as I recall, it was hanging on the wall
Speaker 3: by the end of the night.
Speaker 5: So anyway, that is amazing.
Speaker 3: God. Yeah, I think it was. The event, as I recall,
Speaker 3: was called the whole story, and I was just like
Speaker 3: one butt themed piece of art after another.
Speaker 5: Amazing.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 5: I love a pun I love a whole story.
Speaker 4: Well, listeners, I mean, if there is a time honor
Speaker 4: tradition of ping pong ball whole ejection.
Speaker 3: Do let us know.
Speaker 4: No need to send links, but like you know, sounds
Speaker 4: to me I want to, Yeah, send Caitlin the whole links.
Speaker 4: I uh, yeah, maybe you've just lived too sheltered a life.
Speaker 5: Well, time to break free, Jamie. I wonder what movie
Speaker 5: you're thinking. I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's a movie I've seen a couple of times, but
Speaker 2: clearly not enough to even remember what the movie is.
Speaker 2: It's some comedy, I'm guessing because like, and that's a
Speaker 2: pretty funny joke, like, oh you think and then the reveal, Oh,
Speaker 2: they're just hitting it with a paddle.
Speaker 1: Anyway, it's like.
Speaker 3: A zucker, like a police squad type or like I
Speaker 3: feel like Leslie Nielsen would be adjacent to that joke
Speaker 3: in some way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, a Hangover movie.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm looking m I don't think so that those
Speaker 2: movies aren't smart enough for a joke like that.
Speaker 4: Bradley Cooper talks about catching Vagina launched ping punk ball.
Speaker 5: What a headline, And that's not even from a movie,
Speaker 5: it's just from his journey.
Speaker 2: We'll figure it out maybe by the end of the episode.
Speaker 2: But anyway, so we see this scene where Cynthia is
Speaker 2: launching ping pong balls out of her pussy and everyone
Speaker 2: loves it except for Bob, who is humiliated. And this
Speaker 2: seems to dissolve his marriage with Cynthia because she packs
Speaker 2: up her car and leaves, and Bob joins Bernadette, Mitzi,
Speaker 2: and Felicia on their road trip.
Speaker 5: Then this is the part of the movie where I
Speaker 5: start screaming, Bernadette, you can do better.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. They are obsessed with Bob and it's like,
Speaker 2: did you not see him being horribly abusive to his wife?
Speaker 5: Like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Anyway, so they stop in another small town. Mitzi and
Speaker 2: Bernadette enjoy a quiet dinner where they discuss Mitzi wanting
Speaker 2: to have children, they discuss Bernadette's transition. Meanwhile, Felicia gets
Speaker 2: all dulled up in drag, and I don't know exactly
Speaker 2: how to phrase this, but it's not the like campy,
Speaker 2: exaggerated show drag that we've seen her in up until
Speaker 2: this point. It's more like attempting to pass as a
Speaker 2: CIS woman.
Speaker 5: And Felicia goes to this.
Speaker 2: Gathering of men drinking beer in a parking lot. Bob
Speaker 2: is there too, and Felicia flirts with one of the
Speaker 2: men and he's into it at first, but then sees
Speaker 2: Felicia's arm hair. I think that's like the giveaway that
Speaker 2: this is not a CIS woman, so he assaults and
Speaker 2: starts chasing Felicia, and.
Speaker 5: Only then does Bob reveal that he knows Felicia right.
Speaker 2: Because Bob intervenes. Mitzi and Bernadette see this happening, and
Speaker 2: they step in and stop this, you know, mob of homophobes,
Speaker 2: and they get Felicia to safety. We see Bernadette first
Speaker 2: be rating, then consoling Felicia, and then the group sets
Speaker 2: off again toward their destination. Bob at some point tells
Speaker 2: the others that Cynthia basically.
Speaker 5: Tricked him into marrying her or something happened like that.
Speaker 2: Again, we'll discuss that further later. Then Bernadette and Bob
Speaker 2: are kind of vibing, and then they finally arrive at
Speaker 2: their destination, Alice Springs ever heard of it, and Mitzi
Speaker 2: reunites with her his wife Marian played by Sarah Chadwick,
Speaker 2: and then we get a reveal that they have a
Speaker 2: child together, a little boy named benj which Mitzi knows about,
Speaker 2: but Bernadette and Felicia obviously don't, so they're shocked.
Speaker 5: Once again. Mitzy loves to have a little secret. Yes, yes,
Speaker 5: and so.
Speaker 2: They prep for and put on the first show their
Speaker 2: lip sinking to finally it's happened to me, my veaz
Speaker 2: and I just cannot hide it. And there are lots
Speaker 2: of elaborate costumes and costume changes which just through the
Speaker 2: magic of film editing, just happened. At the end of
Speaker 2: the show, Mitzy sees that Benje was watching the whole time,
Speaker 2: and Mitzy faints embarrassed to know that Benge knows about
Speaker 2: Mitzy being a drag performer, but Benje is fine with it.
Speaker 2: He seems proud of his father, doesn't care that he's gay.
Speaker 2: And then Marion and Bene join the group on the
Speaker 2: road in Priscilla the Bus so the MITSI can spend
Speaker 2: more time with and get to know Bene. Though Mitzi
Speaker 2: is putting on more of the like tick persona, like
Speaker 2: pretending to be straight, dressing more masculine, I guess, like
Speaker 2: wanting to be a quote unquote good example for Bene.
Speaker 2: But he doesn't give a fuck, and he's like, I
Speaker 2: want to see the abba show that you do. Do
Speaker 2: you have a boyfriend?
Speaker 5: What's going on?
Speaker 4: It reminded me of like this is incredibly different genre,
Speaker 4: but how in every Mary Kate Nashley movie, the kids
Speaker 4: are obsessed with like do you have a boyfriend?
Speaker 5: When are you getting married?
Speaker 4: Like if Bench is a character like that where anytime
Speaker 4: he's talking to his dad, he's like, do you have
Speaker 4: a boyfriend?
Speaker 3: Tell me?
Speaker 5: It's like, wow, I can't imagine asking my parents.
Speaker 4: So, I mean, I understand the narrative function, but it
Speaker 4: just always makes me laugh when a child does that
Speaker 4: in a movie, because I feel most children really do
Speaker 4: not want to know what theirs are up to.
Speaker 3: Correct I Also I love that Benji is like unfazed
Speaker 3: by Felicia, like that character, the guy Piers character, like
Speaker 3: the whole movie. His deal has been I like to
Speaker 3: get a rise out of people. I like to piss
Speaker 3: people off, shock people, and this kid like actually is
Speaker 3: surprising to him. And they had this very brief scene
Speaker 3: together and by the end of it, I think Benji
Speaker 3: says something like do you want to play Lego? Or
Speaker 3: something like that, and like they're actually sort of like
Speaker 3: well matched because Felicia is so childish and they actually
Speaker 3: are a good pair, the two of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because Felicia's like, you know your dad's gay, right,
Speaker 2: and Benj's like, I don't give a fuck, Let's go
Speaker 2: play Lego.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just very sweet, and.
Speaker 4: I like that it seems like, I mean, I know
Speaker 4: that Felicia is going back to city to be a
Speaker 4: performer again, but it also seems like there's gonna be
Speaker 4: like a very.
Speaker 5: Found family kind of nature.
Speaker 4: And because we'll talk about it, but that's like so
Speaker 4: much of what makes this movie so special, because we
Speaker 4: know at the very beginning of the movie that Felicia
Speaker 4: Adams family are wealthy homophobes and that there isn't much
Speaker 4: support to be had there.
Speaker 5: So by the end, you know, they are.
Speaker 4: All co parenting the most nineteen nineties looking child I've
Speaker 4: ever seen in my life.
Speaker 3: That's true. That's true. That like just a little bit later.
Speaker 3: If this movie had been made later or earlier, I
Speaker 3: can't do math, it would be Ryan Philippe Like that
Speaker 3: is kind of yea. The vibe that this kid has
Speaker 3: Mark Holmes, I think is the actor's name.
Speaker 5: The hair, the clothes, like the.
Speaker 3: Stripe shirt, the chunky sneakers, like I think he's got
Speaker 3: cargo shorts. Like it's very yeah, Like, and you know what,
Speaker 3: if it's been made a few years later, you would
Speaker 3: have had like the Zelda trifle. It has been the
Speaker 3: green Zelda Triforce T shirt, the cargo shorts, black sneakers.
Speaker 3: That's that's the kid. We would have had their.
Speaker 5: Child uniform of the day.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Then we see Mitzi, Bernadette and Felicia in Drag
Speaker 2: climbing a mountain a reference to I think Fleicia saying like,
Speaker 2: I want to climb this mountain kings something as a
Speaker 2: queen and then Bernadette was like, oh, a cock and
Speaker 2: a frock on a rock. So I think that they're
Speaker 2: fulfilling that dream.
Speaker 5: The prophecy has been realized.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's something so interestingly patriotic about this movie, like
Speaker 3: Australian patriotic, where so many components of it are celebrating
Speaker 3: Australian history and culture and not always I think nailing
Speaker 3: it exactly. They you know the I think the treatment
Speaker 3: of Aboriginal characters is a little dismissive and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: But you know that final Drag number where there's so
Speaker 3: many like iconic Australian elements. Yeah, I will survive with
Speaker 3: a DIGGERI do. Is so lovely. It's my favorite number
Speaker 3: in the in the film is like hearing that sort
Speaker 3: of mashup and like then that like that. I think
Speaker 3: it's King's Canyon at the end. That was actually going
Speaker 3: to be Ularu. They want to do it on I
Speaker 3: forget what the there's an English language name for it,
Speaker 3: the something rock anyway, but they weren't able to shoot
Speaker 3: there because of like cultural concerns around the filming there,
Speaker 3: and so they went to this other location. But yeah,
Speaker 3: there's just there's so much. There's so much Australia, and like,
Speaker 3: isn't it great to be Australian about this film?
Speaker 4: Yeah, which is why I didn't realize, I mean until
Speaker 4: I was like looking into the background and watch this
Speaker 4: documentary how widely embraced it was, to the point where
Speaker 4: it was like, uh, there were references to Priscilla the
Speaker 4: bus in the Olympics when they came to Austria. You're like, oh,
Speaker 4: it's like it's loved like that. Like that's fascinating. Anyway, Sorry,
Speaker 4: I know, I know the recap's almost over, but it
Speaker 4: is interesting. Yeah, that like sort of underlying patriotism that on.
Speaker 4: You know, the first ten years I was watching this movie,
Speaker 4: I just didn't know enough about Australia to even recognize.
Speaker 5: Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2: Okay, so the movie basically ends where they're back at
Speaker 2: the hotel. Bernadette reveals that she has decided to stay
Speaker 2: in Alice Springs for a while with Bob, and again
Speaker 2: we're like, you can do better, Bernadette.
Speaker 5: She's vulnerable, she'll dump him, I hope. So Trombone just
Speaker 5: died or whatever.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but they say goodbye, and then Mitsy and
Speaker 2: Felicia go back to Sydney. They do the Abbess show,
Speaker 2: lip syncing to Mama Mia.
Speaker 5: Here we go again, the second movie this year that
Speaker 5: ends with that song.
Speaker 2: So there you go, yes, indeed, and then benj is
Speaker 2: in the audience watching gleefully the end. So let's take
Speaker 2: a quick break and we'll come back to discuss.
Speaker 5: And we're back. Where do we want to start the
Speaker 5: discussion today? I mean, I guess maybe a little bit
Speaker 5: of background, mm hmm, it would be appropriate.
Speaker 4: So this movie was directed by Stephan Elliott, who was
Speaker 4: not out at the time this.
Speaker 5: Movie came out, but is a gay director.
Speaker 4: And I didn't know, yeah until watching this documentary how
Speaker 4: rooted this movie was in the drag scene that he
Speaker 4: was very much a like, huge fan of in Sydney
Speaker 4: in the eighties. We'll link to this documentary in the
Speaker 4: description because it is really a fun celebration of this movie,
Speaker 4: and that the character of Tick or Mitzi was based
Speaker 4: on this famous Australian drag performer, Cindy Pastel. And so
Speaker 4: I mean, there's just like all of these fascinating just
Speaker 4: how this came to be, where you know, he was
Speaker 4: working in film by day and going to drag clubs
Speaker 4: by night and then eventually married it in this beautiful way.
Speaker 4: And he was also only thirty when he directed this,
Speaker 4: which always makes me mad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I read that after this script at least
Speaker 2: the first d came together pretty quickly, after Stefan had
Speaker 2: the idea and wrote the screenplay and was trying to
Speaker 2: get this movie off the ground. He and some producers
Speaker 2: were trying to get it financed, pitching it around, having
Speaker 2: a hard time getting the financing, which comes as no
Speaker 2: surprise because again the landscape, the media landscape, the global
Speaker 2: cultural landscape, the attitude toward queer people in this era,
Speaker 2: because this was the early nineties, which also I.
Speaker 4: Mean, it was interesting listening to him talk about the
Speaker 4: reasons that he was being turned down for funding, because
Speaker 4: it sounded like, I mean, it was certainly in part
Speaker 4: because it was a queer story, but also he mentions
Speaker 4: that part of the criticism was that it was too funny,
Speaker 4: and so it was like, oh, sure, you can tell
Speaker 4: a queer story.
Speaker 5: Maybe, but only if it's completely tragic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, depressing, and there's not a moment of joy expressed throughout.
Speaker 4: And I don't know he is, you know, using some
Speaker 4: choice language to describe that process, but yeah, it was
Speaker 4: just like it. You know, it's like incredibly frustrating to
Speaker 4: be like, well, you know, maybe you we'll consider funding
Speaker 4: this if the characters don't have a happy ending or
Speaker 4: like don't experience joy, and.
Speaker 5: You know, it's like fuck you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you look at the landscape of what's
Speaker 3: happening around this time. I mean, mainstream is expecting a
Speaker 3: gay movie to be like Longtime Companion or Philadelphia, which
Speaker 3: I think was I think came out the same year
Speaker 3: or around the same time. There's so much there's just
Speaker 3: so much tragedy. It's hard to think of frothy gay
Speaker 3: comedies from the early nineties, you know, kind of understandably,
Speaker 3: like there's a lot of like really tragic stuff going
Speaker 3: on at this point in history. However, boy, oh boy,
Speaker 3: you need to laugh you know, queer people were not
Speaker 3: all like doom and gloom all the time, but you
Speaker 3: wouldn't know it from the culture that was getting funded totally.
Speaker 2: And then casting this movie was another a pill battle
Speaker 2: where they went out to several people. Any actors they
Speaker 2: approached were either not available or simply not interested. They
Speaker 2: didn't want to play a drag queen or a trans
Speaker 2: woman or anything along those lines. And Terence Stamp, who
Speaker 2: ultimately got cast as Bernadette, talks about how terrified he
Speaker 2: was of playing this role and even you know, days
Speaker 2: into shooting, was still like, oh my god, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I can do this, and then describing like
Speaker 2: during one scene everything just kind of like clicked and
Speaker 2: he like stepped over the barrier and described just like
Speaker 2: feeling fearless and eventually like you know, embraced the role
Speaker 2: and you know, loves the movie now. But and you know,
Speaker 2: part of the problem is that this is a movie
Speaker 2: about queer people and the cast is all sis had
Speaker 2: people question.
Speaker 3: Mark, Yeah, as far as I know, you know, who
Speaker 3: knows what's truly in their hearts, in their private lives.
Speaker 3: But of course, you know, I love that this is
Speaker 3: a film with a trans character, but I don't love
Speaker 3: that it's played by as his man that is not
Speaker 3: actually played by a trans woman. On the other hand,
Speaker 3: you know, there was no Janet Monk type. You know,
Speaker 3: the industry was not, let us say, nurturing trans talent
Speaker 3: in the early nineteen nineties, so you know, obviously those
Speaker 3: actors existed, but finding them and also getting funding for
Speaker 3: something requires having some amount of star power in there.
Speaker 3: And so Terreen Staff is, you know, this is somebody
Speaker 3: who had been in movies for a long time, Billy
Speaker 3: Budden then all the way up to Superman three four,
Speaker 3: one of the Superman's is so you know, this is
Speaker 3: somebody who has a bit of a name. So I
Speaker 3: understand the need to get either Stamp or they went
Speaker 3: to Tony Curtis before him, and like what trans star
Speaker 3: could they have gone to at this point, because the
Speaker 3: industry and even the independent film scene was really keeping
Speaker 3: transactors down, was suppressing them, you know at that time.
Speaker 4: And there's such a like, I mean, this sort of
Speaker 4: run of queer movies in the mid nineties that you
Speaker 4: sort of see that trend again and again. I know that,
Speaker 4: like it's impossible to encounter any article about Priscilla. That
Speaker 4: doesn't mention the parallels between Tu Wong Fu, which is,
Speaker 4: you know, for what it's worth, for all the annoying
Speaker 4: Reddit posts I saw, they were developed independently of each other.
Speaker 4: It is a you know, coincidence, but much the same.
Speaker 4: You know where the movie was going with big names
Speaker 4: that were all as far as we know it sis
Speaker 4: head men. Yeah, it's like very much a product of
Speaker 4: its time. And and I mean my instinct is like,
Speaker 4: here is an opportunity to give a transactor a big
Speaker 4: opportunity and make a career. But it seems like the
Speaker 4: choice was, well, do we stand a better chance of
Speaker 4: getting funding if we put a star in it, which
Speaker 4: is really unfortunate kind of what is the word I'm
Speaker 4: looking for, like business d decision to make.
Speaker 3: I would have loved to have seen. I think Calpernia
Speaker 3: Adams was working around this time, and you know, again
Speaker 3: not like a very famous, well known name, but I mean,
Speaker 3: there you go, there's a trans woman who I think
Speaker 3: would have been pretty astonishing in this role. Now I
Speaker 3: don't think she's the right age for that, but like
Speaker 3: I you know, I'm racking my brains to even think
Speaker 3: of somebody obscure who could have played this character. And
Speaker 3: I cannot think of anybody who's being given opportunities, any
Speaker 3: transactress who is being given opportunities in ninety three ninety
Speaker 3: four are kidding me, like.
Speaker 4: Which is really too bad because we know that Stephan Elliott,
Speaker 4: you know, certainly knew plenty of transperformers and plenty of
Speaker 4: drag performers because that.
Speaker 5: Was what the story was inspired by. I don't know,
Speaker 5: it's difficult.
Speaker 4: I don't want to come down on Stephan Elliott too
Speaker 4: hard because it is like a miracle that this movie
Speaker 4: was made.
Speaker 5: At the time and in the climate it was made in.
Speaker 3: But nonetheless, yeah, missed opportunity. But that's just you know.
Speaker 3: I think something that you see a bunch in this
Speaker 3: film is cultural rules that we kind of maybe take
Speaker 3: for granted, or at least have the privilege of having
Speaker 3: now just didn't exist. Like the taboo around dead naming,
Speaker 3: I don't think was as widely known. I mean, obviously
Speaker 3: trans people understood why that was unacceptable then, but I
Speaker 3: think it was not looked at. I think it was
Speaker 3: still you know, by other queer people. It was just
Speaker 3: kind of a joke to know somebody's dead name. Then
Speaker 3: it wasn't understood to be the taboo that it should
Speaker 3: have been.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: So that's the thing about this movie where in some
Speaker 2: ways it's ahead of its time and kind of helped
Speaker 2: push the needle forward as far as queer representation in
Speaker 2: mainstream media.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a brave film in a lot of ways,
Speaker 3: but at the.
Speaker 2: Same time, it's still very of the time where it's
Speaker 2: you know, casting assists actor to play a trans character,
Speaker 2: and it's the thing where it's like, Okay, if they
Speaker 2: need a star, I get that, but like, then why
Speaker 2: not cast the role of Mitzi because Hugo Weaving at
Speaker 2: the time was basically unknown. So like, cast as star
Speaker 2: for Mitzi and then cast an unknown you know, if
Speaker 2: you're gonna have an unknown actor anyway, cast an unknown
Speaker 2: transactor for the role of Bernadette.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: But at least this movie to bring up Tu wang
Speaker 2: Fu again, because that's a movie, as we discussed on
Speaker 2: that episode, doesn't seem to understand the distinction between drag
Speaker 2: performers and trans women, whereas this movie does understand that distinction.
Speaker 2: But again, it has the trans character played by a
Speaker 2: sis actor. We also see several examples of you know,
Speaker 2: Sis had people being horribly queer phobic toward these characters
Speaker 2: and that being framed as a bad thing. But then
Speaker 2: there are many other examples in the movie of bigotry
Speaker 2: that is not condemned by the movie, such as Felicia
Speaker 2: constantly dead naming and being transphobic toward Bernadette, or white
Speaker 2: characters being cruel to Cynthia.
Speaker 5: For example.
Speaker 2: So it's a step in the right direction, but it's
Speaker 2: also doing some very outdated, problematic things.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Boy, that's Cynthia character is so complex. At least my
Speaker 3: feelings about her are very complex, because personally, I do
Speaker 3: regard the character as being pretty racist and misogynists. However,
Speaker 3: I've spoken to a lot of other Filipino people who say, no,
Speaker 3: we actually I think she's funny and I like her. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I get why she's she's tropy, and I get why
Speaker 3: it's you know, a negative depiction, but also it's a
Speaker 3: lot of fun to see her. And somebody compared it
Speaker 3: to how a lot of queer people just really love
Speaker 3: Cruella de Ville for example, or you know, there's like
Speaker 3: there's corell Is probably not a great example because she's
Speaker 3: not queer herself. I don't explicitly at least a.
Speaker 2: Queer quoted villain like all those Disney movies are.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Hollywood Montrose is another one that I look at like,
Speaker 3: this is a problomatic character being played by a as
Speaker 3: far as I know, heterosexual actor Mishaque Taylor. But I
Speaker 3: just I love of Hollywood Montrose and the Mannequin movies.
Speaker 3: He's just so much fun. It's trophy and problematic, but
Speaker 3: he's just soonat fun to watch.
Speaker 4: I saw Mannequin for the first time this year and
Speaker 4: was blown away. My god, what incredible characters.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, just like, here's the thing that Hollywood and
Speaker 3: that Cynthia and Priscilla have is there scene stealers. They're
Speaker 3: chewing the scenery, they're having such a good time, that
Speaker 3: are running circles right or made characters, they're just stealing
Speaker 3: the scene. And you know, if I was seeing myself
Speaker 3: in that role as I am with, you know, in
Speaker 3: a role like Hollywood, Like there's a lot of that
Speaker 3: I see about him that is aspirational, I'd be like, yeah, cool,
Speaker 3: good for you and the fact that you are playing
Speaker 3: into some really negative tropes but also seems like you're
Speaker 3: having a good time with it, and it's not like,
Speaker 3: you know, this is where I think they differ. Hollywood
Speaker 3: feels affectionate and Cynthia actually feels like this feels like
Speaker 3: a malicious depiction. And I've heard Stephen Ellie olertefin Elliott
Speaker 3: talk about like they were trying to send up they
Speaker 3: were trying to make fun of racism. But I think
Speaker 3: that it perhaps lacks some clarity for sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Was fascinated to hear that in your video, and I
Speaker 4: like the I mean, I'm never gonna argue a reclaiming
Speaker 4: like it's not my place at all, but I did
Speaker 4: see that there was there also has been like pretty
Speaker 4: significant criticism of it, Like at the time the movie
Speaker 4: was released, pulling from I believe scholarly journal Wikipedia here,
Speaker 4: but there was a representative from the Center for Filipino
Speaker 4: Concerns named Marginson, who you know, said more of what
Speaker 4: I sort of thought might be the criticism around this character,
Speaker 4: saying that she was portrayed as quote a gold digger,
Speaker 4: a prostitute, an entertainer whose expertise is popping out ping
Speaker 4: pong balls from her sex organ what a phrase, a manic, depressive,
Speaker 4: loud and vulgar, the worst stereotype of the Filipina. She
Speaker 4: argued that by portraying Cynthia in this manner, the filmmakers
Speaker 4: were quote violently killing the dignity of Filipino women, something
Speaker 4: she feared that would lead to quote more violence against us.
Speaker 4: So there was also I mean, there has been plenty
Speaker 4: of around the character as well. I understand the argument
Speaker 4: for reclaiming not gonna you know, obviously be like you
Speaker 4: can't do that, but I feel for this character. And
Speaker 4: it also it's so weird because we just recorded an
Speaker 4: episode about my best friend's wedding. Bear with me here,
Speaker 4: But how like I think that Cynthia, for all of
Speaker 4: her campiness, like her presence, also serves to make Bob look,
Speaker 4: I think worse in a way that the movie doesn't
Speaker 4: really seem to recognize or have an interest in examining,
Speaker 4: because we see him basically like he locks up her stuff,
Speaker 4: He's like kind of holding her hostage in the house.
Speaker 4: He's dismissive to her at every turn. It's made to
Speaker 4: be a joke. And then you know, when she escapes
Speaker 4: question Mark to do the Pingpung dot MP three routine,
Speaker 4: he like yanks her off stage and it's like very
Speaker 4: physically violent, way fully abusive, and then when she leaves
Speaker 4: that's also made to be like a joke, like she's
Speaker 4: being unreasonable.
Speaker 5: We're like I would.
Speaker 3: Leave, you know, And yeah, what I want from here's
Speaker 3: my rewrite of Cynthia that I would have pitched where
Speaker 3: I involved in this movie, which I want a scene
Speaker 3: instead of her like storming out and leaving, I would
Speaker 3: want like a little more intimate scene between her and
Speaker 3: Bernadette where like it's the day after. They're like Bernadette's
Speaker 3: just drinking coffee by herself and Cynthia comes over and
Speaker 3: she like drops the act and she's like, look, I
Speaker 3: just married this guy because I needed the immigration status
Speaker 3: and I can't do this anymore. I'm exhausted. I'm getting
Speaker 3: out of here. You can have them. Good luck to you,
Speaker 3: and like so that Cynthia is not like this cartoon character,
Speaker 3: because all the other characters are so well like realized,
Speaker 3: just some moment where it's like Cynthia knows what's going on.
Speaker 3: She's not like this hyper sexual freak and she's just like, yeah,
Speaker 3: all right, this is my act. I'm going back to
Speaker 3: Sydney and I'm going to seek my fortune out there,
Speaker 3: and you know, like I want to see Cynthia and
Speaker 3: Bernadette realize that they are equals or peers in some way,
Speaker 3: and then they're just like these ships that are crossing
Speaker 3: in the night. And Cynthia wants Bernadet. That's life, Bernette,
Speaker 3: Cynthia's life, Okay, cool, Now she's a person. We don't
Speaker 3: get that, No, we don't.
Speaker 4: You know, that's a way to bring, you know, potentially
Speaker 4: bring Bob and Bernadette together in a way that feels
Speaker 4: a little less icky. If Bernadette is like standing up
Speaker 4: for Cynthia, like, look, if you don't want to be
Speaker 4: married to her, that's fine, but you can't treat her
Speaker 4: like that, and Bob having to recognize and at least
Speaker 4: acknowledge how he's acting. It doesn't absolve him anything. I
Speaker 4: think that, you know, Bernadette Anthea should ditch him personally,
Speaker 4: but like, I don't know, I was a little like
Speaker 4: it feels very of its time that Bob's behavior specifically
Speaker 4: goes so unexamined because after this sort of like run
Speaker 4: of him being only abusive to his wife, which we're
Speaker 4: not supposed to care about because of all these heavy
Speaker 4: racial and gender stereotyping that Cynthia has. He just turns
Speaker 4: to you know, he turns to the gals and makes
Speaker 4: a little joke. He's like, well, you know, some days
Speaker 4: you just shouldn't wake up. And then he's like the
Speaker 4: primary romantic interest of the movie.
Speaker 5: And you're like, it's it's naturally annoying.
Speaker 2: Right because they join in on like the racism and
Speaker 2: misogyny that both Bob is hurling at Cynthia and that
Speaker 2: the movie is because they you know, they talk about
Speaker 2: her like she's property that Bob should have quote unquote
Speaker 2: sold her off. And to me, it's a reminder that
Speaker 2: not everyone who belongs to a marginalized community will automatically
Speaker 2: show solidarity or allyship to other marginalized communities.
Speaker 5: Unfortunately.
Speaker 2: For example, there is a history of white queer people
Speaker 2: being racist. There's a history of cis gay people being transphobic.
Speaker 2: You know, we see examples of both in this movie.
Speaker 2: And it's not as though we're seeing something unrealistic, unfortun
Speaker 2: Really the problem is the movie presents that but doesn't
Speaker 2: challenge it or frame it as a bad thing.
Speaker 3: I think the best you can say, and this is
Speaker 3: not absolving it is hey, it's the nineties, Like this
Speaker 3: is just reflecting some very common attitudes that would I
Speaker 3: think evolve into like the edgy racism of South Park.
Speaker 3: But you know, the thing of like the man having
Speaker 3: some possession of the wife, and especially in like a
Speaker 3: more rough and tumble sort of context like the Australian outback,
Speaker 3: and you know, the casual homophobia, the casual raises, the
Speaker 3: casual mibsogy, and that's just you know, hey, it's the nineties.
Speaker 3: Not good. It's not a good thing. But like the
Speaker 3: conversation about hey, maybe let's not do this, like would
Speaker 3: have been greeted with like such an eye roll of like,
Speaker 3: oh boy, here come the politically correct police. Right.
Speaker 4: But it's like if they wouldn't even have had to
Speaker 4: do that, if they had just written this character better,
Speaker 4: like if they'd written Cynthia Bettery, they wouldn't have needed
Speaker 4: to have to address all the horrible Like I don't know,
Speaker 4: I mean whatever, it's nineteen ninety four, and I know
Speaker 4: that it's like putting twenty twenty four morals on a
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four movie as a non starter, but it's
Speaker 4: even for nineteen ninety four. I feel like you know
Speaker 4: there was room for improvement because it was criticized at
Speaker 4: the time as well.
Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah, No, you know who knew that it was
Speaker 3: racist was people who were the object of that kind
Speaker 3: of racism there right, They could have told you it
Speaker 3: wasn't like a discovery waiting to be made.
Speaker 4: The positive things that I will say, you know, for
Speaker 4: the Bernadette Bob relationship, although I don't care for Bomb,
Speaker 4: is that I was, you know, I guess, like on
Speaker 4: the analysis pleasantly surprised that, first of all, that our
Speaker 4: only trans character has a love story, which I feel
Speaker 4: like is you know, certainly a rarity at this time,
Speaker 4: and also that the oldest character has a love story,
Speaker 4: because that also feels very unusual, and people over a
Speaker 4: certain age don't have access to romance stories in successful
Speaker 4: iconic movies. So I appreciated those aspects, but the actual
Speaker 4: the guy himself wasn't a fo Yeah.
Speaker 3: I would have loved you know, Bob could maybe have
Speaker 3: been redeemed somewhat for me if he had some quick
Speaker 3: scene with Bernadette where he's talking about Cynthia and he's like,
Speaker 3: I fucked up, you know, just something where he's you know,
Speaker 3: instead Bernadt just calls him a gentleman, but you know,
Speaker 3: some like awareness from him of like, you know, I
Speaker 3: got into a shitty situation there, and I could have
Speaker 3: done it. I wish I could redo. I wish I
Speaker 3: could make up for what I did wrong there and
Speaker 3: without realizing, and he starts doing nice things for Bernadette
Speaker 3: and then the two of them eventually. I don't know,
Speaker 3: I'm writing this whole. It's a completely different movie at
Speaker 3: this point.
Speaker 5: But you just have to write another movie, I think, Matt,
Speaker 5: it's you know.
Speaker 3: What, it's the Alan story, and we see what Alan's
Speaker 3: been up to for the last thirty years. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: he encounters Bernadette and Bob out in the desert or something.
Speaker 4: And you know, I forgot to revisit this. I know
Speaker 4: that when I watched this movie and talked about it
Speaker 4: a couple of months ago, I had just refreshed myself
Speaker 4: on it. A lot of what we're talking about is
Speaker 4: course corrected in the.
Speaker 5: Big musical adaptation.
Speaker 4: It's not a into one, and I'm trying to remember
Speaker 4: what the specific changes were. But for those that have
Speaker 4: seen the musical, please let us know, because there were
Speaker 4: deliberate changes to sort of nineteen ninety four elements of
Speaker 4: this movie to adapt it for the stage. Transactors are
Speaker 4: in the main cast. I mean there's that I definitely remember.
Speaker 4: I think that there were plot elements adjusted as well
Speaker 4: to give Cynthia a fuller character, and I believe flushing
Speaker 4: out the character of Marion a little more as well.
Speaker 4: So anyways, if you've seen the show, I would love
Speaker 4: to see this on stage. I want to see a
Speaker 4: bus inside of a building.
Speaker 3: It reminds me of there's this point in the nineteen
Speaker 3: seventies where Broadway got very like kind of high on
Speaker 3: its own supply of like scenery and set pieces and
Speaker 3: revolving stage, isn't it, you know, even into the nineties
Speaker 3: with the helicopter and the chandelier. But there's this musical
Speaker 3: in the seventies called on the twentieth Century Limited or
Speaker 3: the two Century Limited that had like a giant train
Speaker 3: set piece, Like that's kind of what the giant, glittery,
Speaker 3: gleaming bus in the Priscilla Stage musical must feel like
Speaker 3: when it was coming through Los Angeles. The Priscilla the Musical.
Speaker 3: This would have been like twenty eleven or twelve. Maybe
Speaker 3: I was working as an event photographer at the time,
Speaker 3: and I was hired to shoot the red carpet, the
Speaker 3: step and repeat outside I think it was the Pantagius
Speaker 3: wherever it was playing in LA, And I remember, like
Speaker 3: I shot the Red Carpet, and you know, it's that
Speaker 3: whole like nightmare scenario of like all the photographers like
Speaker 3: shouting everybody's name, look at me, look at me, all
Speaker 3: right over here. And at one point Willim walks through.
Speaker 3: Will and the drag We knew a lot of people
Speaker 3: know from Drag Race and a lot of other appearances
Speaker 3: in LA and other shows, and as far as I know,
Speaker 3: Willim had no connection to this show and not done
Speaker 3: anything with it. And the story that I was kind
Speaker 3: of getting from like William just talking to other people
Speaker 3: on the Red Carpet was he just saw that there
Speaker 3: was this red carpet happening, and like as a drag personality,
Speaker 3: just like kind of walked his way onto it and
Speaker 3: then just home afterwards, just saw like, oh, the drag thing.
Speaker 3: I'll just walk my way on the air and then
Speaker 3: walk off. I don't know if that's one hundred percent
Speaker 3: the situation, but that's like what I was understanding from
Speaker 3: like the gossip that he was giving to the other
Speaker 3: photographers who were there.
Speaker 5: That's incredible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does look like a great Like these songs
Speaker 3: are so good, you know, same thing with Mama Mia.
Speaker 3: It's just like an excuse to like hear songs that
Speaker 3: you love to hear and see some really fantastic costumes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and this won the Academy Award for Costumes and
Speaker 4: rightfully so, I think, like for all these movies' faults,
Speaker 4: it is pretty amazing how well and how successful and
Speaker 4: beloved this movie was instantly it wasn't. I mean, it's
Speaker 4: considered a cult classic, but I kind of hesitate to
Speaker 4: even call it a cult classic because it was a
Speaker 4: huge mainstream success when it came out. It was like
Speaker 4: one of the highest grossing movies that had ever come
Speaker 4: out of Australia ever.
Speaker 5: And it centered around queer characters, and you know, the
Speaker 5: flaws are the flaws.
Speaker 4: But I think that that is really cool and you know, lad,
Speaker 4: I would imagine to other movies and just like you know,
Speaker 4: a point of success of like here is a queer
Speaker 4: movie by a queer director. Let's put money behind more
Speaker 4: projects like this, which is stop and go over the years,
Speaker 4: but that in itself is really cool because this movie
Speaker 4: was made for less than two million dollars and made
Speaker 4: back its budget like fifteen times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, you know, for better for worse. Something
Speaker 3: nice about Australia is that it doesn't have the same
Speaker 3: moral panic as the US around drag. I mean, especially
Speaker 3: in recent years. But I think just like with panto
Speaker 3: shows and drag and camp in the UK, in Australia
Speaker 3: it's much more of a fun and sometimes this is
Speaker 3: you know, a negative thing, like you know, people who
Speaker 3: are gender non conforming are minimized or seen as pure
Speaker 3: entertainment rather than as full human beings. But you don't
Speaker 3: have like the panic off like oh no, a man
Speaker 3: in a dress, save the children, shield their eyes, you know.
Speaker 3: I think that's how you can have drag in the
Speaker 3: ceremonies of the Olympics and Kylie Minogue singing this ab
Speaker 3: a song and paying tribute to this, like it becomes
Speaker 3: this national icon like for US it's like Bruce Springsteen
Speaker 3: or something in the US. And I love that in
Speaker 3: Australia they have like this national pride in drag culture
Speaker 3: and that's you know, I look at that as a
Speaker 3: queer person I'm like, that's, you know, part of my
Speaker 3: culture that everybody's like celebrating. And imagine, imagine the US
Speaker 3: Olympics even today. Imagine you know, we're gonna get the Olympics.
Speaker 3: I think in two years in la or maybe four
Speaker 3: whatever it is, four or four years. Yeah, I the
Speaker 3: uh from both of you when I mentioned that you're
Speaker 3: dretting it already.
Speaker 2: But I saw that a few months ago. In April
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, the director Stephan Elliott announced that work
Speaker 2: on a sequel was underway, with the original cast reprising
Speaker 2: their roles, which is no offense.
Speaker 4: How I found out how Terence Stamp was still alive.
Speaker 4: He's like eighty six.
Speaker 2: He's alive, He's kicking. And I don't know if the
Speaker 2: movie will happen or not, but I'd be interested to
Speaker 2: see updates that they hopefully make as far as you know,
Speaker 2: eliminating the racism and the casualness with which Felicia is dead,
Speaker 2: naming Bernadette, all that kind of stuff. And we've kind
Speaker 2: of touched on this a little bit, but the way
Speaker 2: Alan and the other Aboriginal characters are not at all characterized.
Speaker 2: They're mostly just there's set dressing for these three main
Speaker 2: white characters. Yeah, this is happening after a scene in
Speaker 2: which Felicia starts to tell what seems like it's going
Speaker 2: to be a very anti native joke. So like these
Speaker 2: characters attitudes toward anyone who is not white is abhorrent
Speaker 2: and on full display.
Speaker 4: Which fikes like the Australian nationalism a little yes, a
Speaker 4: side eyed, because Australia has certainly colonized quite a bit
Speaker 4: in its death and so to you know, be dismissive.
Speaker 5: Towards indigenous people and just really anyone who isn't white
Speaker 5: and then be like in Australia is the greatest country ever.
Speaker 4: You're like, okay, I tried to like map that onto
Speaker 4: like an American story, and you're like, yeah, not awesome.
Speaker 4: But then also, you know, there is the argument for like,
Speaker 4: you know, having a drag show about Australia being this like.
Speaker 5: Inclusiveness that you don't normally see.
Speaker 4: Very complicated, but yeah, in general, I mean, I guess
Speaker 4: I just really wish that Alan got on the bus.
Speaker 4: I know, he was such an interest and I feel
Speaker 4: like we got to know him a little bit better
Speaker 4: than we got to know other characters in these like
Speaker 4: stopovers on this road journey. And I wonder if there
Speaker 4: was a draft of this script where he joined the crew,
Speaker 4: it would have been you know, wouldn't have you know,
Speaker 4: resolved the way that this movie treats non white people
Speaker 4: in general, but it would it would have helped, would
Speaker 4: have helped to actually include him.
Speaker 3: I would love for a sequel to really lean into
Speaker 3: the Aboriginal culture and to blend. Because we get just
Speaker 3: a little hint of it. We get the digerido, we
Speaker 3: get some Aboriginal language, some singing in this sort of
Speaker 3: remix of I will survive. But if we get like fully,
Speaker 3: you know, an Aboriginal approach to gender, like and performance,
Speaker 3: and are like merging with more you know, European Western
Speaker 3: kind of traditions, and we see those two things. I mean,
Speaker 3: I what a great opportunity for some conflict intention too,
Speaker 3: for Native people to say, we've been doing you know,
Speaker 3: we've had our own attitudes about gender and sexual oritation
Speaker 3: identity for thousands of years, folks, and so this is
Speaker 3: our approach. And we're going on a road trip now,
Speaker 3: you know, like a road trip to the big city.
Speaker 3: Like it's going in the other direction. I don't know,
Speaker 3: whatever it could be, but boy, oh boy, I would
Speaker 3: love to see it. I don't know that's Stefan Elliott's
Speaker 3: story to tell. Maybe he's an ep on that's kind
Speaker 3: of a project. But I would love to just hand
Speaker 3: the reins over to some great Aboriginal writers and directors
Speaker 3: and see where they take it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just I am curious to see We're a
Speaker 4: sequel with Go and I hope that. I mean, at
Speaker 4: very least it does seem because there were changes made
Speaker 4: to the musical that Stephan Elliott is.
Speaker 5: Not like closed off to, you know, acknowledging.
Speaker 4: Where their shortcomings in the original text. Have more nice
Speaker 4: things to say about the movie say them I really love,
Speaker 4: I mean, for all of their faults, I really appreciate,
Speaker 4: like how wildly different that Bernadette and Tick and Adam
Speaker 4: or Mitzi and Felicia are, and that all of the
Speaker 4: conflict between them, you know, it just is very organic.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's like a generational conflict that is going on.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's a personality clash, like I don't know, it
Speaker 4: is just so fun to watch them together, and especially
Speaker 4: with the relationship with Bernadette and Felicia, I think that
Speaker 4: that's like a really interesting and thoughtfully written friendship.
Speaker 5: Outside of the fact that Felicia like just repeatedly.
Speaker 4: Dead naming Bernadette, you do get a glimpse of like
Speaker 4: Bernadette retaliates, but it's not clear that Felicia's actually learned
Speaker 4: a lesson because it continues to happen to the very end.
Speaker 5: Of the movie. It's the last line, come on, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3: That is the one area where I wish Felicia had
Speaker 3: done a little bit more growing up, Like if right,
Speaker 3: if he was driving off and said Bernadette, and like
Speaker 3: it was the first time he called it by a
Speaker 3: proper name, and that would have been such a better ending.
Speaker 4: Come on. But there were moments with those characters that
Speaker 4: I appreciated, I mean, you do, I think, like the
Speaker 4: really lowest point of the movie is when Felicia is
Speaker 4: attacked by the angry mob, which obviously was reflective of
Speaker 4: how queer people were brutalized in Sydney, and there were
Speaker 4: a lot of examples sort of given throughout the documentary
Speaker 4: we'll be linking to of how that reflected, you know,
Speaker 4: real life at that time, and that Bernadette steps up
Speaker 4: and puts the fact that she doesn't really like Felicia aside,
Speaker 4: and they have a moment and they I don't know.
Speaker 4: I appreciated some moments worked, and that unfortunately was undercut
Speaker 4: by Adam Felicia's complete.
Speaker 5: Lack of growth when it came to dead naming.
Speaker 4: And then with Mitty I really liked, I mean just
Speaker 4: the when I was like returning to watch this movie
Speaker 4: earlier this year, like you always sort of expect.
Speaker 5: Marian to be not who she is, Like you don't.
Speaker 4: I never am expecting for her to be like loving
Speaker 4: and accepting, just because of how you know, how the
Speaker 4: world is and how we've seen characters act in this
Speaker 4: movie towards the girls leading up to this point. I
Speaker 4: think it's really cool to see, you know, that happy
Speaker 4: ending for Mitty and that you know this whole that
Speaker 4: all these anxieties that are expressed throughout the movie of
Speaker 4: like will I be accepted? Will I be able to
Speaker 4: be a parent and do this job? And the answer
Speaker 4: is of course you can, and that Benji is such
Speaker 4: a sweetheart, and also a little Mary Kate and Ashley.
Speaker 5: Of like do you have my boyfriend? Do you have
Speaker 5: my boyfriend? I think it is sweet, you know, and
Speaker 5: something that you weren't seeing in movies very often.
Speaker 4: And you get the flip side of that as well,
Speaker 4: with the understanding that you know, Bernadette was rejected by
Speaker 4: her family and that Adam has a deeply complicated relationship
Speaker 4: with his mom where he's like, I'll take the bus money,
Speaker 4: but we're never going to be close, you know. Like
Speaker 4: you see the sort of wide array of how these
Speaker 4: characters interact with their own families and all of the
Speaker 4: struggles they have, and I thought it was you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, not perfect, but pretty well done. Yeah.
Speaker 2: We also see that flashback of Felicia slash Adam telling
Speaker 2: the story of how when Adam was a little boy,
Speaker 2: his uncle tried to sexually abuse him, and Adam recalls
Speaker 2: this memory with laughter because like he pulled the plug
Speaker 2: of the bathtub and whatever.
Speaker 3: We turned the tables on his abuse are yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's like interesting way to frame a story
Speaker 2: about an attempt at sexual abuse, like child sexual abuse.
Speaker 2: I don't know if there were certain examples where this
Speaker 2: movie felt like it was taking a very serious situation
Speaker 2: and like making light of it in a way that
Speaker 2: felt tonally dissonant and weird, and like I understand, like
Speaker 2: adding comedy in an attempt to like make a serious
Speaker 2: topic more palatable or like finding humor, and I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, tragedy plus time equals comedy. But like the
Speaker 2: way this movie handled some of those examples, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 4: I don't feel comfortable being like that works or it doesn't,
Speaker 4: because I do sure appreciate that it's coming from, you know,
Speaker 4: a situation where I think, you know, Stephan Elliott is
Speaker 4: setting you up for a very tragic reveal and then
Speaker 4: Adam gets the upper hand, and yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, I definitely would understand if that doesn't play
Speaker 4: for everyone, but I also understand why it does.
Speaker 5: Plays like a cathartic win which I feel like.
Speaker 4: The characters in this movie at different points, you know,
Speaker 4: because there are the real life queer phobia and homophobia
Speaker 4: and transphobia of the world is constantly you know, basically
Speaker 4: following them around and is sometimes inside of the bus itself.
Speaker 4: But you do have like a series of moments in
Speaker 4: this movie where I think, as an audience member and
Speaker 4: just understanding the time this movie came out, you expect
Speaker 4: something horrible to happen, and then the character's triumph and
Speaker 4: that's cathartic, and yeah, moment to moment, I don't know,
Speaker 4: you know, I get that it doesn't always work, but
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the triumph at the end, you know,
Speaker 3: it's certainly not saying like, isn't child abuse hilarious? I
Speaker 3: think that we're coming from a dark place with a
Speaker 3: lot of the humorous situations, and you're right that there
Speaker 3: is a catharsis of we came out on top to
Speaker 3: you know, the extent that we could have in this situation.
Speaker 3: You know, whether it's that flashback or I don't know,
Speaker 3: find getting the chosen family at the end, there's the
Speaker 3: gay bashing where the basher gets beaten up by Bernadette.
Speaker 3: There's the woman in It's not in kouber Peedia, it's
Speaker 3: in Broken Hill, where the woman in the bar is like, no,
Speaker 3: you can't. Your kind isn't welcome here, and Bernadette has
Speaker 3: this incredibly off colored joke that everybody laughs at. And
Speaker 3: I guess, to me, the question is is the movie
Speaker 3: punching down? And I don't think it is. I think
Speaker 3: it's actually punching up and successfully most of the time.
Speaker 2: I tend to agree. There is the portrayal of working class,
Speaker 2: small town people kind of painted with a very broad
Speaker 2: brush of being like, they're not smart, they're closed minded, bigots,
Speaker 2: things like that, And I mean that is a stereotype
Speaker 2: that is to some degree rooted in reality, but to
Speaker 2: paint all people like that with that broad stroke, which
Speaker 2: I guess is kind of subverted with Bob a little bit.
Speaker 4: But like and the fact that we know that Adam
Speaker 4: is from a fabulously wealthy family who are also openly homophobic.
Speaker 5: I mean, we don't get but we don't get it
Speaker 5: as much time. That's sort of like a flash yeah scene.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Ultimately, you know, I get the sense that Adam,
Speaker 3: his good looks and his money have insulated him from
Speaker 3: a lot of suffering that the other characters may be
Speaker 3: very familiar with. And so you know, it's not awesome
Speaker 3: that he gets knocked around a little bit at one point,
Speaker 3: but he experiences a gay bashing. It is terrifying. And
Speaker 3: then I really do love the you know, I think
Speaker 3: that has to happen so that we get the scene
Speaker 3: where Bernadette has that wonderful line, don't let it drag
Speaker 3: you down, let it toughen you up, and it sucks
Speaker 3: that as a minority, you do have to make that
Speaker 3: choice to either be dragged down or to toughen up.
Speaker 3: And it's not always easy to do. Yeah, exactly, but
Speaker 3: you know, look, sometimes that is the choice. Either you
Speaker 3: can wallow forever or you can grate your teeth and
Speaker 3: power through it, sometimes with the help of other people.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love that scene, Like let it toughen you Up
Speaker 3: is something that it sucks that you have to do it,
Speaker 3: but you do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I do appreciate that. I wish this happened
Speaker 2: to a greater degree, especially between Felicia and Bernadette. But
Speaker 2: this trip, you know, strengthens their bond. They realize that
Speaker 2: they need each other for just support and love and safety,
Speaker 2: and that this trip brings these friends closer together in
Speaker 2: a beautiful way.
Speaker 3: It really is the like it's the perfect road trip movie.
Speaker 3: It's just like it's so Joseph Campbell, and it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, the hero's journey of these characters. And I
Speaker 3: know the comparison is often made Too Wang Fou. I
Speaker 3: really do think, you know, there's a lot to recommend
Speaker 3: about Tou Wong Fu. There are some things to recommend
Speaker 3: about Too Wong fou and I think that this movie
Speaker 3: really out does most other road Like I'm trying I
Speaker 3: think of a road trip film that I like as
Speaker 3: much as this one. I can't think of anything.
Speaker 2: My tops are little Sun Sunshine, and I would classify
Speaker 2: Mad Max Fury Road as a road trip. Okay, Similarly
Speaker 2: through the Australian Outback, I think is where the.
Speaker 4: Yeah it's I rewatched Yeah, because I saw Furiosa the
Speaker 4: same week that I rewatched this, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 4: Australian outback road trip movies, you know, they come in
Speaker 4: all genres.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, talk about like Joseph Kandler, like the
Speaker 3: Dan Harmon story circle, like the journey back to our
Speaker 3: point of origin having changed. Like it is so clear
Speaker 3: the parallels between Priscilla and Fury Road are so interesting
Speaker 3: now that you mention it. It really does match up
Speaker 3: to a lot of those plot beats that we expect
Speaker 3: from a road trip movie from a really well tightly plotted,
Speaker 3: eight part structured kind of story. It really hits them
Speaker 3: at kind of the same points, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so, yeah, Yeah, there's I mean, there's
Speaker 4: no doubt there's I totally understand why this movie is
Speaker 4: a classic.
Speaker 5: There's so much to love about it.
Speaker 4: The last the just like a moment where just speaking
Speaker 4: to your point, Matt about the resilience of these characters.
Speaker 5: After the bus is uh, you know, graffitied with slurs.
Speaker 4: There's just like that one moment with Mitsy tick something
Speaker 4: akin to like, you know, you always think it's going
Speaker 4: to get easier, but it still hurts every time, and
Speaker 4: it's just a passing moment and within five minutes, you
Speaker 4: know they've moved on. They're painting the bus allegedly lavender
Speaker 4: like they're you know, a singing exactly.
Speaker 5: But you have those sort of like moments of.
Speaker 4: Reflection that I feel like really speaks to that this
Speaker 4: is a queer movie from a queer director, because there
Speaker 4: are plenty of movies centered around queer people that come
Speaker 4: out in the nineties that.
Speaker 5: Are written and directed by straight people. And there's like
Speaker 5: a dissonant element to it.
Speaker 4: And I think like when Stephan Elliott hits, he hits
Speaker 4: and when he missed his evisus, but that's you know,
Speaker 4: the natrue.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine if they had done this movie just
Speaker 3: a little bit differently, Like I can one hundred percent
Speaker 3: see some like Grant Awarding body being like you need
Speaker 3: you need a straight character to get the audience in,
Speaker 3: like if they had like a fourth character on the
Speaker 3: bus who is like they're straight. I don't know. It's
Speaker 3: like now I'm thinking of like meat Loaf from Spice World,
Speaker 3: but like there's some straight character in the mix there
Speaker 3: who's yeah, you girls crazy? Oh yeah yeah. Metaf is
Speaker 3: their must driver in space. I know this because it
Speaker 3: came out on VHS when I was working at a
Speaker 3: video store and we had like a list of like
Speaker 3: five movies that we could play, is like Armageddon and
Speaker 3: like all these like action films, and the only two
Speaker 3: I could stomach were The Pro Shot of Cats and
Speaker 3: uh and Spice World so many a top. I put
Speaker 3: Spice World on because I couldn't stomach any other any
Speaker 3: other thing in the on the on the approved list
Speaker 3: for what was it, Strawberries?
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, god, I need to rewatch Spice World. It's
Speaker 5: been too damn long. I'm saying, what a what a treasure.
Speaker 3: I would say, give yourself permission to have the finger
Speaker 3: on fast forward because there's some bits that's like all right,
Speaker 3: just get me to the next music, get me hearing
Speaker 3: the next song. But I would say the opening. The
Speaker 3: opening of Spice World is I think one of the
Speaker 3: I wouldn't put in the top ten, but it's it's
Speaker 3: an upper tier opening of a movie with the music
Speaker 3: in that and the finale is a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: There's a moment where, oh my god, I love it
Speaker 3: so much. There's a moment where a woman gives birth
Speaker 3: and the Spice girls are all crowded around this woman
Speaker 3: who's literally just given birth, and one of them says,
Speaker 3: that's real girl power, and it is such an incredible moment.
Speaker 3: I love it so much. Every time I see a
Speaker 3: woman do something Amazican movie, I think that's real girl power.
Speaker 4: Nice feminism is such a trip, like what happened to
Speaker 4: You're like, what are you saying?
Speaker 5: What are you on about? It's great?
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't anyway, So that's what's going down is if
Speaker 3: you like, if you like the soil, liquid to the desert,
Speaker 3: check out Spice World. Wonderful takeaway Yeah, two bus movies. Yes.
Speaker 2: My other takeaway is ultimately, and to not a huge degree,
Speaker 2: but this is a story about fathers and sons, but
Speaker 2: a really like endearing one where it's kind of flipped
Speaker 2: as far as like what you would normally see as
Speaker 2: far as like a queer child not sure if they're
Speaker 2: going to get the acceptance and approval of their parent,
Speaker 2: and then we get this flip, and you know, it
Speaker 2: also happens in the way that we see it represented
Speaker 2: in this movie as far as the parent wondering if
Speaker 2: you know, his child will accept him as a drag
Speaker 2: performer and a gay man and things like that, and
Speaker 2: the kid is absolutely fine with it. And it speaks
Speaker 2: to how ridiculous it is that there's all this like
Speaker 2: anti drag and anti trans legislation in the US and
Speaker 2: elsewhere that it's they're justifying it as far as like,
Speaker 2: but the kids protect the kids, and it's just like,
Speaker 2: if you just don't teach kids hate, and he'll be
Speaker 2: fucking fine with it.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's wild because there's an episode of Alice,
Speaker 3: the sitcom from like the mid seventies, where she's really
Speaker 3: worried that her son is going to find out that
Speaker 3: her friend is gay, and at the end of the
Speaker 3: episode she finally she like sits them down. She's like,
Speaker 3: all right, I need to let you know there's something
Speaker 3: that you need to know about this guy, and the
Speaker 3: kids like yeah, and like I thought, yeah, that's that's it.
Speaker 3: That's always the situation.
Speaker 4: The kids are like so yeah, yeah, exactly, And at
Speaker 4: the end it's like, yeah, extremely clear that Benji is
Speaker 4: like better off now because like his family has like
Speaker 4: tripled in size overnight, so.
Speaker 5: Many people to play legos with, Like, what more do
Speaker 5: you want as a kid?
Speaker 4: Is fun?
Speaker 5: People to play legos with? Who love you? Come on?
Speaker 3: I do wonder like tick is tick slash mitzi. As
Speaker 3: far as I can tell, this is like her main
Speaker 3: bread and butter is doing drag and now she's got
Speaker 3: to raise a kid on this on this income. Now,
Speaker 3: I know the nineties are different and the economics are different,
Speaker 3: and we're not all spending like ninety percent of our
Speaker 3: income on rent and in those days, right, But you know,
Speaker 3: becoming a parent isn't just you know, assuming the role
Speaker 3: of parenting full time. There's a lot of work that
Speaker 3: this character's about to take on, and you know that's
Speaker 3: not what this movie is. But yeah, I do, like
Speaker 3: it's kind of like there's some movies where I'm like,
Speaker 3: what happened the next day? Like Ghost is very much
Speaker 3: like I think about that all the time. With the
Speaker 3: movie ghosts, Like what right the day the next day
Speaker 3: after ghosts? Like they call the police at the end
Speaker 3: of that film, and you know there's all this stuff
Speaker 3: that happens, like somebody gets killed. Anyway, what's the next
Speaker 3: day after? You know, they all get back to Sydney,
Speaker 3: and you know, I would love to see like that
Speaker 3: kid's first day at school at his new school in
Speaker 3: Sydney or whatever, maybe his homeschool, who knows whatever?
Speaker 2: Another spinoff we need and addition to the Alan spinoff?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, does that?
Speaker 4: You would have anything else to say about Priscilla Queen
Speaker 4: of the Desert, Not really, just that I love this cast.
Speaker 2: I mean, Hugo Weaving is in several of my favorite
Speaker 2: movies a La the Matrix and Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2: I love that he went on to have a career
Speaker 2: where he was like in these like huge blockbuster, high
Speaker 2: grossing franchises. I also love him in Fifa Vendetta. I
Speaker 2: love Guy Pearce. He is one of my crushes. Uh
Speaker 2: he's so handsome. Terence Stamp. He plays a hilarious character
Speaker 2: in one of my favorite movies, bow Finger.
Speaker 3: Oh my God, I welcome to Mine Think. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: I love that film.
Speaker 5: It's so good. It's so good, we've got to cover it.
Speaker 5: I know, does anyone want a Bowfinger episode? Let us know?
Speaker 3: Directed by Frank Oz the uh yeah, the Piggy Like,
Speaker 3: what do you have to do here? Yuh yeah?
Speaker 2: Anyway, so great cast and yeah, I really like this
Speaker 2: movie despite its flaws.
Speaker 3: I will say this is what I you know, always
Speaker 3: tell people about Priscilla is it is a great movie
Speaker 3: to watch with friends, like watching a group, because the
Speaker 3: music's so great and the dance is so great, that
Speaker 3: mood is great. It is a fantastic movie to see
Speaker 3: in like a huge group, like if there's like a
Speaker 3: movie's in the park or just on midnight film or
Speaker 3: and I just want to throw it out there if
Speaker 3: anybody wants to organize a big screening at a venue
Speaker 3: for Priscilla Queen of the Desert, fly me out to
Speaker 3: introduce to apprecio whatever. I love this film. It is
Speaker 3: so great to see as a mass group experience. It's
Speaker 3: just one of those films that really like just begs
Speaker 3: to be seen with three hundred people. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I would absolutely love to see this movie with a crowd.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, it's a classic. It's a damn classic.
Speaker 4: It's I can't believe it's thirty years old. This year's wild,
Speaker 4: and I mean would I also would.
Speaker 5: Love to see the musical Holy shit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you're a fan of this movie, definitely check
Speaker 4: out the documentary as well. It's a very it's a fun,
Speaker 4: complimentary companion piece.
Speaker 5: Indeed, does this movie pass the Bechdel test?
Speaker 2: I already made a case for when they drive Priscilla,
Speaker 2: it passes. Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on
Speaker 2: if you count Mitzi and Felicia when they're like in
Speaker 2: their drag personas speaking to each other. If you consider
Speaker 2: that a pass I'm fine with it. Obviously, drag is
Speaker 2: a subversion of gender, so I'm like, yeah, I'm fine
Speaker 2: with that. I would consider their conversations a past.
Speaker 4: It passes regardless, because Bernadette has conversations with Marian, brief
Speaker 4: conversation with Marion, and also sherl who she beats in
Speaker 4: that drinking contest.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's not the warmest interaction, but yeah, no, no, And.
Speaker 4: I think her interaction with Mary it's pretty passing, you know,
Speaker 4: like what is the stage like big.
Speaker 5: Or something like that.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean it certainly does pass. And I yeah,
Speaker 4: I think regardless of where you land on that it passes.
Speaker 3: I think his passage happens in sort of a blurry
Speaker 3: area of the gender spectrum, like it's somewhere I wouldn't
Speaker 3: say like I would say, maybe it passes, like the
Speaker 3: schmech Deel test, Like it's so it's so close.
Speaker 5: Spiritually the clear pass. Yeah, yeah, the Schmechdel test. Fishould
Speaker 5: start introducing this, right, But.
Speaker 2: What about our nipple scale, where we rate the movie
Speaker 2: on a scale of zero to five nipples based on
Speaker 2: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I think I'll
Speaker 2: go like a three or three point five on this one.
Speaker 2: I appreciate its place in history and how it helped
Speaker 2: move the needle on queer representation in mainstream although, as
Speaker 2: we've discussed, there's some very of the time elements of
Speaker 2: it and also not of the time. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: the racist and sexist portrayal of the Cynthia character. Justice
Speaker 2: for Cynthia, having the Aboriginal characters mostly just as scenery
Speaker 2: and backdrop while the focus is always on the white characters.
Speaker 2: I think I'll land on a three point five nipples.
Speaker 2: I'll give one to Julia Cortez, who played Cynthia. I
Speaker 2: will give one to Alan Dargin Dargan who was an
Speaker 2: Australian musician and seems to be playing himself question mark
Speaker 2: in this movie because if you look on IMDb, his
Speaker 2: character is credited as Aboriginal man, but they call him Allan,
Speaker 2: which is that person's real first name. So I'm like,
Speaker 2: is he just amos himself? We're not sure, but one
Speaker 2: nipple to him. I'll give one nipple to my crush,
Speaker 2: guy Peers. I hope he is not problematic. You always
Speaker 2: run the risk of saying you like a man and
Speaker 2: then you find out later that he's horrible, So hopefully
Speaker 2: that's not true. And I'll give my half nipple to
Speaker 2: Hugo Weaving.
Speaker 5: I'll go three and a half in this as well.
Speaker 5: I mean on the movies, I like, it's higher than that.
Speaker 4: But I think for all the reasons we've discussed today,
Speaker 4: it's a classic. It's a stepping stone movie that led
Speaker 4: to more thoughtfully inclusive movies. But there's so much to
Speaker 4: love about this movie, and I guess I will I
Speaker 4: will just leave it at that because we've been talking
Speaker 4: for an hour and a half, so I would give
Speaker 4: it three and a half. I'm gonna give one to
Speaker 4: Priscilla the Bus, who is recently discovered and is now
Speaker 4: going into a museum as is her right.
Speaker 5: Wow, I'm going to give.
Speaker 4: One to Julia car because I will give one to
Speaker 4: Stephan Elliott. And finally, I would like to give my
Speaker 4: last half nipple to a city pastel, who is the
Speaker 4: inspiration for Tick Slash MIDSI and is a cool testament
Speaker 4: to how this movie sort of captured a lot of
Speaker 4: the drag scene and characters and people that Stephan Elliott
Speaker 4: loved from his formative years and put them in a
Speaker 4: classic movie, which is always cool.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Matt, what do you think?
Speaker 3: You know, I think I'd be inclined to assign it
Speaker 3: to nipples. And one of them goes to the three
Speaker 3: heroes on the bus and they can distribute it like
Speaker 3: a like an evenly broken up pie chart amongst themselves,
Speaker 3: and the other to the Australian outback itself and you know,
Speaker 3: rising rising like ayers rock above the desert is the
Speaker 3: center of that nipple going out to Australia, just the
Speaker 3: country for you know, embracing this film.
Speaker 5: Mm hmmm, hell yeah, amazing. Well, Matt, Thank you so
Speaker 5: much for being with us.
Speaker 3: This was so much fun, my pleasure. Thanks for having
Speaker 3: me on and giving me a reason to talk about
Speaker 3: this movie. It's been a big part of my life
Speaker 3: ever since I discovered it. Thanks thanks to RuPaul on
Speaker 3: vh one.
Speaker 5: Wow, I love that.
Speaker 2: Where can people follow you online? Check out your work?
Speaker 2: Tell us everything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've got a video from a couple of
Speaker 3: years ago that i did on YouTube about this film.
Speaker 3: I make videos on YouTube about the making of movies
Speaker 3: and television from a queer perspective, so you can find me.
Speaker 3: Just search for my name Matt Baum on YouTube. Just
Speaker 3: had one about Howard Ashman and the making of Little
Speaker 3: Shop of Horrors and The Little Mermaid.
Speaker 5: Incredible work.
Speaker 3: Thank you. And I'm working on one now about my
Speaker 3: so called life the TV show, so that'll be coming soon.
Speaker 3: And you can also get my book I wrote about
Speaker 3: the history of queer characters on sitcoms. That's the books
Speaker 3: called High Honey. I'm Homo and I just turned a
Speaker 3: year old, So yeah, I talk about gays on sitcoms.
Speaker 3: And I've also got a podcast called The Suws of Paris,
Speaker 3: where I chat with queer folks about entertainment that's important
Speaker 3: to them, So you can find the Seers of Paris
Speaker 3: wherever you listen to your podcasts. Nice, amazing, Yay, thank
Speaker 3: you so much, a pleasure, Come back anytime, happy to.
Speaker 2: You can follow us on Instagram mostly these days. At
Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast. You can go to our Patreon aka Matreon,
Speaker 2: where we do two bonus episodes every month on a
Speaker 2: brilliant amazing theme and that's five dollars a month. Plus
Speaker 2: you get access to our back catalog of bonus episodes
Speaker 2: there's over one hundred and fifty at this point, all
Speaker 2: for five dollars a month at patreon dot com slash
Speaker 2: Bechtel Cast, and.
Speaker 4: You can get our merch at teapublic dot com slash
Speaker 4: v Bechtel Cast.
Speaker 5: Never too early to holiday shop.
Speaker 4: And with that, let's let's hop on the bus. Let's
Speaker 4: go well, let's go back to Sydney and raise our
Speaker 4: young son, shall.
Speaker 2: We yes while singing Abba Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast
Speaker 2: is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and
Speaker 2: Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Boord.
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