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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Drive. I'm Dale Lulli. He is Matt Williamson,

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Speaker 1: and it is a Monday, Matt, and we are on

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Speaker 1: a big time countdown now because one week, well next

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Speaker 1: week actually, we will be heading off to Saint Fencent

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Speaker 1: College and Latrobe. A couple of teams reporting earlier this

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Speaker 1: week if they've got I guess the teams in the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame game. So it's all starting to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Jets, Brown's I think, which are also the

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Speaker 2: hard Knocks team. So soon we're gonna be getting training

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Speaker 2: camp reports from outside the Steeler organization. But very soon

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Speaker 2: we will be doing drives from Chuck Noldfield at Latrobe,

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Speaker 2: I mean in St. Vincent's. That's gonna be awesome on

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Speaker 2: a daily basis. Yeah, every day, five days a week,

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Speaker 2: I mean, and actually more.

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Speaker 1: Than more than that, because every day of Steelers, every

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Speaker 1: day of the Steelers practice, we do a show.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, we will be uh.

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Speaker 1: We'll be rolling them out on you here. And Matt,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to start off today's show with getting back

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Speaker 1: to Jeremy Fowler's little survey here of NFL executives and

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Speaker 1: coaches and and scouts and I want today, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about running backs, okay, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk specifically about running backs because there seems to be

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Speaker 1: a narrative out there that somehow Nause Harris is disappointing

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Speaker 1: or wasn't worth the first round draft pick, or you know,

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Speaker 1: all the stuff that you hear about this. First, I'd

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Speaker 1: like to say that Najie Harris was the twenty fourth

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Speaker 1: pick in the draft two years ago, three years three

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Speaker 1: years ago. Now, big difference between taking Nause Harris at

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Speaker 1: twenty four and taking Christian McCaffrey at three or two

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Speaker 1: or wherever Christian McCaffrey went.

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Speaker 2: Oh sure, Fournett or Barkley or Zeke or right.

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Speaker 1: Like, there's a differ. You know, a top ten pick

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Speaker 1: is one thing. Taking a running back between picks twenty

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Speaker 1: and fifty five or six, it's really the same thing.

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Speaker 2: It pretty much is. I mean, yeah, there's a fifty

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Speaker 2: year option situation that's becoming less and less important either way.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Dravonte Williams went shortly after at M was also a

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Speaker 2: first round pick, you know, and yeah, I hear you,

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Speaker 2: a blue chip pick is different than you know, taking

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Speaker 2: him at the end of the first round for a

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Speaker 2: playoff type team.

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Speaker 1: And I actually think for the running back position, having

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Speaker 1: that fifty year option actually does kind of matter.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because it's one of the only cheap spots anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a spot where you can get the guy

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Speaker 1: for a fifth season without breaking the bank. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: I mean I think that's you know, And we'll get

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Speaker 1: to this when we get to the number one guy

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Speaker 1: on the list. But I just wanted to look.

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Speaker 2: Here, so in the other a Nagie note that I

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Speaker 2: didn't know until yesterday. Since twenty twenty one, which is

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Speaker 2: when he entered the league, of course, no player in

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Speaker 2: the NFL has more touches than Nasie Harris at any position.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, again, there's value to that. He also

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Speaker 1: gets gets tackled behind the line of scrimmage pretty much

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Speaker 1: less than every back in the league, which is saying something.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he does not get trapped behind the line

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Speaker 1: of scrimmage very often.

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Speaker 2: He's interesting because.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say, people may harp on the well,

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Speaker 1: he's not going to break a twenty yard run. A

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Speaker 1: lot of twenty yard runs and things of that nature,

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Speaker 1: but he rarely gets tackled for a.

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Speaker 2: Loss right, And I saw that the Warren Sharp book

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Speaker 2: came out, and if there's so much in there, it's

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Speaker 2: hard to digest it. But I was just scanning through

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Speaker 2: it today thinking about stuff to talk about and stuff

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Speaker 2: to write about and whatnot. And there were some interesting

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Speaker 2: nuggets about steel a running game in there, in that

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Speaker 2: they ran into an eight or more box man box

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Speaker 2: defensive box more than any in the league, but they

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Speaker 2: were the second best in the league at doing it.

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Speaker 2: So that's a lot of nause to me. Not that

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Speaker 2: the blocking has nothing to do with it, but I

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Speaker 2: think it goes to your point of not getting stuck

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Speaker 2: behind the line of scrimmage, falling forward, getting something out

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Speaker 2: of nothing. So people stacked the box and the Steelers

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Speaker 2: still didn't slow down their approach. They still ran into

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Speaker 2: eight plus boxes more than anybody else, but they were

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Speaker 2: the second best of the league of doing it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that placed the running back. So looking

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Speaker 1: here at the guys who also received votes on this

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Speaker 1: list of the Jeremy Fowler compiled Javonte Williams, Sure Nausea,

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Speaker 1: Harris Miles, Sanders, and AJ Dillon.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I don't have any qualms with any of those

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Speaker 2: to be honest with you.

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Speaker 1: The guys who were honorable mentions on his list Aaron Jones,

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Speaker 1: Damian Pierce, Breese Hall, Travis atn Ramandrie Stevenson, and Kenneth Walker.

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Speaker 2: At this position. I won't kill people for small amount

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Speaker 2: to go off of. You know, it's not like quarterback

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Speaker 2: where you can judge Oe the last ten years. But

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Speaker 2: it does shock me a little bit that Breest, Hall

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Speaker 2: and Walker are already on here, you know, because they

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Speaker 2: didn't even play a full rookie year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Hall's coming off of a you know, a

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Speaker 1: bad knee injury, as is a guy like Javonte Williams.

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Speaker 1: Like it may be a little early to do that.

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Speaker 1: You know. Kenneth Walker I thought was pretty good. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: how about this stat from the Kenneth Walker notes here

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Speaker 1: his four point two rush efficiency rating tight Nauseier Harris

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Speaker 1: for the league high.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what that. That's the first

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Speaker 2: I've heard that nugget. I think it's some court of

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Speaker 2: some sort of ESPN advanced stat, but I assume it

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Speaker 2: lends itself to what we were both saying.

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Speaker 1: You see, it doesn't get tackled behind the line of script.

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Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and he's efficient. Maybe he's not Barry Sanders

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Speaker 2: bustin long ones. We know he isn't. But the efficiency

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Speaker 2: high number of touches, running into stack boxes, getting stuff

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Speaker 2: on his own is all there.

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Speaker 1: To me. I think, you know, I look at it,

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Speaker 1: and if the back is getting okay, Najee Harris has

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Speaker 1: average four yards. It's basically four yards of carry in

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Speaker 1: his first two seasons, right, right, right, But the team's

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Speaker 1: getting me four yards basically every time he touches the ball.

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Speaker 1: There's some value in that.

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Speaker 2: There is, I mean, the perfect world, I mean this

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Speaker 2: is a much bigger podcast than this. I'll talk good

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Speaker 2: in thirty seconds. The perfect world is you stay out

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Speaker 2: a third down. First down on the first two downs

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Speaker 2: is the whole key. Stay out of third downs. But

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Speaker 2: third and two ain't so bad, you know what I mean? Four? Four,

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Speaker 2: But also staying out of third downs is wonderful. But

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Speaker 2: league scoring is down so dramatically teams are pretty happy

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Speaker 2: with third and two last year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, second and six ain't bad either, exactly. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know. So it's all about how you look at things. Again,

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Speaker 1: what you don't want is second and eleven or second

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Speaker 1: and twelve after running the ball.

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Speaker 2: So success rate is defined as four or more yards

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Speaker 2: on first and ten half of what you need to

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Speaker 2: get on second, and getting a third down conversion on third.

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Speaker 1: So he gets you.

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Speaker 2: Four on first, that's successful. That's what I mean. That's

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Speaker 2: what the league deems as a successful play is getting

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Speaker 2: first four yards on first down. If it's second and

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Speaker 2: six and he gets you four again, he was successful

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Speaker 2: on second down because he got more than half of

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Speaker 2: what was needed. And if he gets you four again

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Speaker 2: on third and two, he was successful on third down

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Speaker 2: because he moved the chains.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know it's again, it's all on how

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Speaker 1: you look at this. So number ten on this list,

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Speaker 1: his highest ranking was number six. Lowest ranking unranked twenty

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Speaker 1: eight years old. Last year he was an honorable mention guy,

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Speaker 1: and that's Austin Ekeler. I can't believe he was as

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Speaker 1: Austin Ekilar was an honorable mention guy last year.

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Speaker 2: It bothers me that he's all the way down to ten,

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Speaker 2: to be honest with you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and last.

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Speaker 2: Year that guy's like the least respected player in the

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Speaker 2: league in that undrafted out of a tiny school. Low

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Speaker 2: on these lists, can't get paid to save his life.

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Speaker 1: So he's got like thirty five touchdowns the last two seasons.

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Speaker 2: And it's by far the most in the league.

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Speaker 1: Actually, he's got thirty eight thirty eight, yeah, twelve more

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Speaker 1: than any other player in the league.

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Speaker 2: Twelve more as a receiver and runner. I mean, he

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Speaker 2: keeps himself a phenomenal rare shape. I mean, like if

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Speaker 2: I take him second overall in Fantasy Vine, he's tremendous.

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Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna blink at eye at that.

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Speaker 2: No, right, he's tremendous.

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Speaker 1: Number nine on this list. The highest ranking was four,

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Speaker 1: lowest ranking unranked. He's twenty six years old. Last year

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Speaker 1: he was unranked, and I don't have a problem with that.

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Speaker 1: It's Tony Pollard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he came into his own last year.

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Speaker 2: They're putting all their chips in that in that bucket

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Speaker 2: with him. Zeke's gone, probably won't be back. Three of

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Speaker 2: these guys. It's probably noteworthy because maybe when you listen

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Speaker 2: to this it'll be different. But Pallard, Jacobs, Barkley are

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Speaker 2: all on the franchise tag, and I think that deadlines

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Speaker 2: today after we record, they have to either sign it

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Speaker 2: or get extended and we'll see if he does.

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Speaker 1: But that goes back to my that goes back to

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Speaker 1: my drafting of running back at the end of the

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Speaker 1: first round argument like I'd much rather pick up a

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Speaker 1: fifty year option than have to give a running back

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Speaker 1: to the franchise.

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Speaker 2: Tag, right, And you can really do both, that are

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Speaker 2: and you could do both.

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Speaker 1: You could pick up the fifth year option and then

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Speaker 1: use the franchise tag.

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Speaker 2: Right, And this is obviously very nausey related. Then you

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Speaker 2: get six years of the dude at a pretty good

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Speaker 2: price and probably said him on his way for sign

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Speaker 2: him a one year deal, not a huge extension, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as we saw here with Dalvin Cook, who's number eight,

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Speaker 1: highest ranking three lowest ranking, un ranked. He's twenty seven

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Speaker 1: years old. Last year he was number four. This is

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Speaker 1: a guy who was a second round pick, got paid

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Speaker 1: and then you know, Okay, he makes too much money

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Speaker 1: for us to pay a running back, so we're gonna

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Speaker 1: move on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the weirdest.

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Speaker 1: He's still number eight on the list here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, which I think might be a little

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Speaker 2: high for him coming off the year he had. But

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Speaker 2: he's had a great career. He's gonna be somebody's leading

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Speaker 2: rusher next year most likely. You know, he it'd be

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Speaker 2: a good addition to any team. And that situation in

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Speaker 2: Minnesota is kind of odd. I mean, like, they won

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Speaker 2: thirteen games, but they know they aren't a thirteen win team,

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Speaker 2: got beat by the Giants in the first round of

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Speaker 2: the playoffs, and they're trying to get young and trying

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Speaker 2: to compete, and they're super analytical. We're not paying a back,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean he's not good.

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Speaker 1: Number seven is also twenty seven years old, highest ranking three,

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Speaker 1: lowest ranking unranked. Last year he was number five. That's

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Speaker 1: Alvin Kamara.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with him, not because

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Speaker 2: of just the suspension and fantasy and all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: But they go signed Jamal Williams and they draft Kendrey Miller,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I do so much Dynasty work. Twenty

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Speaker 2: seven's that magic number where if you have a Kamara

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Speaker 2: or a Cook mix in that whole class Connor, you

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Speaker 2: pretty much want to get him off your Dynasty roster

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Speaker 2: before they hit twenty seven. And I think majority of

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Speaker 2: those guys are starting to show the wear and tear.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Kamara is just not a high volume guy now.

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Speaker 1: As they note here, he's failed to eclipse nine hundred

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Speaker 1: brushing yards in each of the past two seasons, despite

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Speaker 1: having a combined four hundred and sixty three carries. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, and before you said, well his values as

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Speaker 1: a receiver, he hasn't gone over five hundred receiving yards

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Speaker 1: in either of the last two seasons.

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Speaker 2: No, right, I mean, and I know akl over twenty seven,

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Speaker 2: he's twenty eight, but to me, he's far superior to Kamara,

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Speaker 2: and superior to Cook and Pollard for that matter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, number six on the list. His highest ranking was two,

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Speaker 1: lowest ranking ten, so he was on everybody's top ten list.

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Speaker 1: He's twenty four years old. Last year he was number two,

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Speaker 1: and that's Jonathan Taylor.

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Speaker 2: I love him, but I mean there's obviously a fantasy

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Speaker 2: correlation here. I like him more in the real world

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Speaker 2: than I do for fantasy, just because how many bet

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Speaker 2: passes he gonna catch? Is Richard's gonna see all the

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Speaker 2: goal line carries. But I think he's a tremendous football player.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing that sticks out to me here is

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Speaker 1: the Colt's ranked twenty third and run block win rate

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two compared to seventh the year before.

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Speaker 1: That's the entire offensive line. And there are people out

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Speaker 1: there who still think, like if Quentin Nelson was kicking

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Speaker 1: butt like Quintin Nelson, you know the previous few years,

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Speaker 1: you just run the ball behind him and it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: But that didn't even happened for them last year.

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Speaker 2: Really, No, it was as hard an offense to watch

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Speaker 2: it in the league, especially like when Matt Ryan was

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Speaker 2: in there and Saturday's the head coach, and like, it's

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Speaker 2: going to be better than that.

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Speaker 1: Number five on the list, his highest rankings two, his

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Speaker 1: lowest ranking seven. Last year he was number one. He's

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Speaker 1: twenty nine years old. That's Derrick Henry.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he's really falling off. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: it's inevitable. He gets keyed on as much as ever.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure he's thrilled they signed Hopkins today. I mean,

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Speaker 2: at least get somebody out of the box. But I

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Speaker 2: don't think he's here for much longer. He's already twenty nine.

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Speaker 1: To twenty nine. Yeah, those first few years of him

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Speaker 1: were wasted basically. Yeah, you know, they just didn't do

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Speaker 1: anything with him. Number four on the list, highest ranking,

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Speaker 1: number one, lowest ranking number seven. He's twenty six years old.

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Speaker 1: Last year he was an honorable mention. That is Saquon Barkley.

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Speaker 2: I think that's fair. I mean, he's a rare talent.

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Speaker 2: He has a couple issues that he's gotten better at.

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Speaker 2: To his credit that he always tried to hit the

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Speaker 2: home run, which works in the Big ten if you're

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Speaker 2: that talented, you know, bounce it and try to be

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Speaker 2: Barry Sanders. And his pass protection was a real problem

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Speaker 2: for a while, so if he was out there, you know,

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Speaker 2: everyone kind of knew he was running a route if

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Speaker 2: he was going to be out there on third down

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Speaker 2: or whatever. So he's gotten better. I am curious how

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Speaker 2: this salary things works out for him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to watch. Number three on

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Speaker 1: this list, highest ranking, number one, lowest ranking, number eight.

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Speaker 1: He's twenty five years old. Last year he was an

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Speaker 1: honorable mention. That's Josh Jacobs. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sitting here thinking I'd rather play against

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Speaker 2: Josh Jacobs than Saquan or Echolar, Henry, maybe even Taylor.

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Speaker 2: But this guy led the league in rustling last year

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Speaker 2: and he's pretty darn good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Am I crazy mat to think that there could

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Speaker 1: be a correlation between Josh Jacobs and Nause Harris.

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Speaker 2: No, that's actually kind of funny.

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Speaker 1: They're very similar style backs Bama Bama guys. You know,

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Speaker 1: the Raiders didn't pick up Jacob's fifty year option. He

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Speaker 1: goes out and just rips up the league, not rips

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Speaker 1: it up. But I mean they're every down running backs.

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Speaker 1: They're always on the field and that matters.

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Speaker 2: They're both highly highly competitive and play through injuries, a

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Speaker 2: Bama thing. I mean, you know that's what you have

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Speaker 2: to do to be the.

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Speaker 1: Guy they Yeah, you come off the field of Bama,

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Speaker 1: you might not get back on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, bro exactly. I mean so when you said that,

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Speaker 2: my immediate thought was their usage as a receiver because

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Speaker 2: both players coming out of Bama. Any scouting report or

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Speaker 2: when we did draft shows good receiver. You know, we're

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Speaker 2: not saying they're Christian McCaffrey, but they can catch a

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Speaker 2: fair amount of balls here in the league. Nause does

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Speaker 2: rookie year, A lot of it were Ben getting in

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Speaker 2: out of his hands quick and you know the way

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Speaker 2: that offense was structured. But until last year, Josh Jacob

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Speaker 2: had one reception in the NFL on a third down

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Speaker 2: like that's criminal, you know.

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Speaker 1: Like I mean, they always they always had some other

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Speaker 1: back that they wanted to run out there on third downs.

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Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, didn't see him as a pass catcher.

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Speaker 2: But now that he's out there every down, which Harris

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Speaker 2: has shown he can do, can nause you get to

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Speaker 2: sixteen fifty three on the ground one year maybe you.

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Speaker 1: Know, yeah, number two on this list. His highest ranking,

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Speaker 1: number one, lowest ranking, number eight. He's twenty seven years old.

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Speaker 1: Last year he was number seven, and as Christian McCaffrey game.

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Speaker 2: Changer, special player, I mean not, I do think these

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Speaker 2: dudes that are receivers first when they hit twenty seven, ish,

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Speaker 2: I'm not as worried about them, you know, as you

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Speaker 2: know the guys that just take a beating and you know,

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Speaker 2: get their body abused time and time again. To me,

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Speaker 2: I mean to pull back curtain. Nick Chubb number one,

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Speaker 2: and do you like Strawberry or Rocky Road. I mean

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Speaker 2: those two are very different. They're both quote running backs,

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Speaker 2: but I could make a strong argument for either one

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Speaker 2: being number one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Chubb, but one, his highest ranking was one, his

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Speaker 1: lowest ranking six. He's twenty seven years old. Last year

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Speaker 1: he was number three on this list, and he is

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Speaker 1: number one. So if you look at it, Chubb was

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Speaker 1: a high second round pick. He was like, what, the

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Speaker 1: second pick in the second round. Yeah, yeah. H McCaffrey

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Speaker 1: was the what third overall pick in the draft?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, third or four, something.

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Speaker 1: Somewhere in that range. Yeah, Jacob's the first round draft pick.

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Speaker 1: Sakwon Barkley first round draft pick. Derrick Henry was a two.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Taylor in early two. Alvin Kamara was a three.

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Speaker 1: He was the outlier there. Dalvin Cook was a two.

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Speaker 1: Tony Pauler was a later round draft pick. Ecklar was undrafted.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but for the most part, these guys were

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Speaker 1: all either first round picks or high second round picks.

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Speaker 2: I say high second is a key here too, you know, like,

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Speaker 2: and that was true with the Nausea year. Javonte Williams

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Speaker 2: was a really early second you know, and their first

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Speaker 2: round players not going to quite use the first round

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Speaker 2: pick on the back, but he's clearly the best guy

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Speaker 2: out there at that point in the draft.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I have high hopes for Nausea Harris this year.

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Speaker 1: I think the line I think people have come around.

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Speaker 1: They're realizing that the line play was better in the

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Speaker 1: second half of last season. Is going to be better

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Speaker 1: moving forward, even better than what it was last year.

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Speaker 1: And you know, when you look at his second half,

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Speaker 1: you go, okay, I mean if he ever was just

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Speaker 1: what it was, like eighty four yards a game or

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Speaker 1: whatever it was over a seventeen game season, Oh right,

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Speaker 1: right right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm actually I have it right in front of me.

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Speaker 1: Here we go.

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Speaker 2: H He started, predictably slowed fifty nine point one total

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Speaker 2: yards for the season's first half. After the bye, he

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Speaker 2: was up to eighty seven point eight yards per game

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Speaker 2: and four point one yards per carry.

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Speaker 1: Great he does that. I mean you're looking at a

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Speaker 1: fourteen hundred yard season.

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Speaker 2: Right, I mean if he's at eighty five rushing yards

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Speaker 2: a game or so, you know, great.

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Speaker 1: And you take that all day long.

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Speaker 2: M hm.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean they're very happy with them. Oh,

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Speaker 1: they're definitely not, you know, upset at all with nausea

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Speaker 1: Harrison what he did. And again, the availability, it's a

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Speaker 1: big vide the constant availability. I mean, you look at

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Speaker 1: some of the other guys on this list. I mean

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Speaker 1: McCaffrey's gotten nicked up. Uh, you know, we know Sai

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Speaker 1: Kuan's gotten nicked up. Taylor missed some games last year

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Speaker 1: with an ankle. Nause's just Dalvin Cook, same thing. He's

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Speaker 1: missed time with that shoulder. Nause is always available.

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Speaker 2: And going back to the the and this goes hand

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Speaker 2: in hand with the availability. When you go back to

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Speaker 2: the draft and the selection, the draft pick. They knew

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Speaker 2: they were going to be very young on offense. There

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Speaker 2: were a young rookie quarterback likely was going to be

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Speaker 2: taking over. And I know that they didn't know they

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Speaker 2: were getting pick it. This was Ben's rookie year. But

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Speaker 2: they were looking for future leaders on the offensive side

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Speaker 2: of the ball. And he's that in a big way.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, Yeah. He's a true bell cow. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And they look up and he's tough and he's you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he is Matt Williamson. I am Dale Lollie. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to the drive here on Steelers Nation Radio. We're

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Speaker 1: going to take a break. When we come back, we'll

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Speaker 1: take a look at another position on Jeremy Fowler's list

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Speaker 1: here of the top ten players at each position from ESPN.

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Speaker 1: We'll do that when we return. Right after this