1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realists. We are returning to you from far 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: away with some classic episodes that we think you will 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: really enjoy. Sometimes will air interviews, sometimes will air full episodes, 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: and sometimes we'll be able to do something really special, 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: like share a previous exploration we had a long time ago, Noel, 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: we were on the road, we were going live. Once 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: upon a time we talked about real life covet. 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 2: Oh, that's right, this is a live show, and we're 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: all familiar with the spooky stereotypical witches that are depicted 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: in films like the Vivivich in fiction and folklore, etc. 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: But what does that look like in the real world? 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 3: Yeah? 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: How much sand is there to those historic descriptions of 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, pointy hats writing brooms through the sky. How 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: much of that is Hollywood? How much of that is 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: ancient folklore? How much of that, along with reporting of 17 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: infernal black masses and so on, was nothing more than 18 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: a hit piece. This is the question we answer in 19 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: this live show. 20 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 2: Special Halloween episode Live from the iHeart Offices in New 21 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 2: York set. 22 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 4: Oh that's where it was. Yes, that's correct, So get 23 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 4: spoopy with us. 24 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 5: Indeed, let's roll it. 25 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 26 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 3: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 28 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 3: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. 29 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 6: Hello, everyone, welcome to the pre show introduction. 30 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, the sort of the lobby or the foyer to 31 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 1: the actual show. 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 6: Yes, I'm glad we have that door opening and the 33 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 6: you know, the beginning, the ding dong doorbell, just let 34 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 6: you know you're walking into the foyer. 35 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: Now the proper word is doorbell, not the ding dong 36 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: ding dong. 37 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 4: Six there second. 38 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, it's true. The three of us recently 39 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: went to New York City, just like you've heard about 40 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: in the salty commercials, and we did an episode on 41 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: real life covens. 42 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's looking at the history of really what a 43 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 6: witch is, what it you know, what it is in 44 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 6: popular culture, How it's how the concept has been viewed 45 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 6: over the centuries, as well as what an actual group 46 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 6: of people who would be who would consider themselves to 47 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 6: be witches, how they function together. 48 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was something we were asked to do 49 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: at our home offices at iHeart Media headquarters in Midtown New. 50 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 5: York and it was a pretty tight little affair. 51 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: I think we did about thirty five minutes on the 52 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 2: subject and then we're. 53 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 5: Out to light bites and cocktails and schmoosery. And it 54 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 5: was a very nice evening. 55 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: And we had a lovely intro by a friend of 56 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: the show, ConL Byrne, which you will not hear, but 57 00:02:59,520 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: it was. 58 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 5: It was nice, filthy, It was filthy but glowing. 59 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 60 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, like Bob Saget's stand up set. Yeah, we were 61 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: very excited about this. We wanted to share it with you. 62 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 7: We also want you to know that we did this, 63 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 7: of course, right before Halloween, so you're us hyping up. 64 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: The Halloween that was passed. So travel back there with 65 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: us and let us determine between fiction and fact, which 66 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: which is the most accurate? 67 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 6: Yes, and Ben is right, your calendars are correct. It 68 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 6: is not Halloween. But but let's let's have some how 69 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 6: about some early nostalgia for Halloween twenty nineteen. 70 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 5: I can't wait without further ado. 71 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 4: Here we go. 72 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 6: Hello, Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 73 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 6: my name is Noel. 74 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 4: They call me Ben. 75 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: That's our super producer, Paul mission controlled Decan on the 76 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: figure of ones and twos. Give it up for him. 77 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: But most importantly, you are here. You are you, and 78 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know. 79 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: Live at iHeart headquarters here in New York. 80 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 4: So give it up for yourself. 81 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, we are in fact recording this. This will 82 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 5: be a real episode of the show. 83 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: So you are part of podcast history, or at least 84 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: part of our podcast feed. 85 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: Right, So you're sort of you're all co host with 86 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: us tonight, and we're standing in a. 87 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 6: Very surreal place that most of you just think is 88 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 6: normal now, but it most certainly is not. 89 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: There's like a hologram in the hallway, they change. 90 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: The lights, there's a smoke machine in the conference room 91 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: that we've been posted up at, and lasers. 92 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 5: It's bonkers. 93 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, we almost just stayed and played with that. 94 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 8: This. 95 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:37,239 Speaker 4: It's true. 96 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: As you're hearing this out there in podcast lands, it 97 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: is almost Halloween, one of the very most wonderful times 98 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: of the year, according to us at least, right, you know, 99 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: we've got a cavalcade of potential monsters that are going 100 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: to be strolling the streets. We think of vampires, right, 101 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: we think of were wolves, and of course we think 102 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: of witches. 103 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 6: Now, modern science has pretty much conclusively proven that vampires 104 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 6: and werewolves didn't exist, at least in the way that 105 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 6: we popularly think about them or the way we imagine 106 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 6: them and portray them. However, witches are a little bit different. 107 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 5: It's true. 108 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 2: So what is this stereotypical kind of type of witch 109 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 2: that we think of, Where does it come from? And 110 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 2: most importantly, are any of those strange stories actually true? 111 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: So we have to start addressing that question the way 112 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: we always start addressing any question witches, sorry, which is 113 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: with the facts. So here are the facts. It's fair 114 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,679 Speaker 1: to say that we're all pretty familiar with at least 115 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: the stereotype of the Western European witch, right, we know 116 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: the traditional witch and film fiction folklore. They'll typically be 117 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: a woman, they're often older. They've got for some reason, 118 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 1: a wide brimmed, pointy hat. 119 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, they might have warts or like weird green skin 120 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 2: like in the Wizard of Oz, or some kind of 121 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 2: at least jaundice appearance or whatever. 122 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 5: And they've got talent. 123 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: Like nails, very goth dark clothing, they have wicked cackles, 124 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: and after all that, they might fly through the sky, 125 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: usually with the aid of some sort of household appliance, 126 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: like a like a broom or a mortar and pestle, 127 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: or to modernize it, maybe a vacuum cleaners. 128 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 5: I don't know, says us. A lot only. 129 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 6: Also a lot of times we'll have a demonic sidekick 130 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 6: called a familiar, which is, you know, a rat and 131 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,119 Speaker 6: an owl or something to that effect, maybe a cat. 132 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, we should note the stereotype of familiars in Europe 133 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: came about before Europeans knew what chihuahuas are. Those are 134 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: the most demonic of household pets. I'm sorry, I wait, 135 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: some enemies. 136 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they look like evil little blueberry muffins 137 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: with their weird, dead black eyes. It's absolutely while you 138 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: were shivering unclear, it's a different it's a different episode, 139 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 2: is what it is. 140 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 5: Yeah. 141 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: But okay, so we're talking so that's a witch singular individual. 142 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: But what happens when we get to the idea of 143 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: a group of witches? Yeah? 144 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 6: Yeah, So according to these stories, very seldom would you 145 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 6: see a witch who was acting alone. A lot of 146 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 6: times you'd see them colluding and conspiring with like minded 147 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 6: other practitioners of sorcery. In these things that were called 148 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 6: and are called covens, at least within the popular culture. 149 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 6: And these were secretive groups that would meet together to 150 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 6: you know, worship a certain deity or an evil entity 151 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 6: or and a lot of times try and make the 152 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 6: infernal powers that exist within that realm happen on the 153 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 6: mortal plane. 154 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: And as secretive groups tend to do, they would meet 155 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: in secretive places like old standing stones in the woods, cemeteries, 156 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: ancient sites outside of town, abandoned buildings, and cellars, and 157 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: covens witches were engaged in perverse mockeries or parodies of 158 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 2: religious rights, Christian rights specifically. The most famous coven right 159 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: was something that's called the black mass. 160 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, come on, yeah. 161 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 6: It all sounds scary. And as we're going through here, 162 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 6: we're gonna we're kind of weaving this tale right of 163 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 6: what this stuff was like or what the way we 164 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 6: think about it right. 165 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 5: Reception for sure. 166 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 6: So we're getting into a tale now that's not for 167 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 6: the faint of heart. 168 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 4: True. Oh yeah, we should have said that at the top. 169 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 4: But these are adults. I think we're. 170 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,679 Speaker 6: Fine, We're going to we can handle this together. Okay. 171 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: So the descriptions of black masses, this was a popular 172 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: scary news story of the day, right, and we have 173 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: found genuine descriptions, or what purport to be genuine descriptions 174 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: of a black mass. One in particular that spoke to 175 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: us was from a book written in fifteen ninety seven. 176 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: It was called, in a burst of creativity, the Antichrist. 177 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: It was written by a guy named Floramond, Dave Raymond 178 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: and a great name. Yeah, and let's names we're just 179 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: better back then true, And let's just let's set the 180 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: stage there. There's a tale of a woman who is 181 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: going to potentially be a witch, right, she's she's in 182 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: the recruitment process like that guy at the beginning of 183 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: Lost Boys. And so she is taken to a field 184 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: out in the wild, and in dur Raymond's account, a mysterious, 185 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: specifically Italian man draws this ring with a rod of holly, 186 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: he reads a spell. 187 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 4: From a black book. 188 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: And the whole description, by the way, just harps on 189 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: the fact that this guy. 190 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: Was Italian, and yeah, it's oddly specific, and I quote. 191 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 8: Thereupon appeared a large horned goat, all black, accompanied by 192 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 8: two women as well as a man dressed as a priest. 193 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 8: The goat asked who this girl was, and when the 194 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 8: Italian man weird replied that he had brought her to 195 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 8: be his, the goat made him make the sign of 196 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 8: the cross with his left hand. 197 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 5: That's right. 198 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 2: And then he commanded all of them to come and 199 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: greet him, which they immediately did. And another odd detail, 200 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: kissing his rear, his haunches, his his backside. 201 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 6: Yep, Okay, here's where it gets rough. Remember I am 202 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 6: reading a quotation. Okay, here we go, we can do 203 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 6: this quote. The goat had a lighted black candle between 204 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 6: its two horns, from which the others lit their own candles. 205 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 6: The goat took the woman aside, laid her in the woods, 206 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 6: and carnally knew her. 207 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 5: Wait what is that? I don't understand. 208 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 6: We're we're just gonna breathe, We're gonna keep going here, 209 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 6: to which she took an extreme displeasure. Okay, obviously suffered 210 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 6: much pain. God, this is horrible, and felt his seat 211 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 6: as cold as ice. 212 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 5: Oh why is it cold? I don't know, it's infernal powers. 213 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 5: I don't understand why it's why it's icy. 214 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: Cot Well, maybe because this is like pre Dante's Inferno. Okay, 215 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: that's fair, Okay, but that wasn't the culmination of the party. 216 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: After that, all the witches began to dance in circles, 217 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: their backs turned to one another. The person performing the 218 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: service was clothed in a black robe, but he didn't 219 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: have a cross. He would raise still an understand this park. 220 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: He would raise like a round slice of turnip and 221 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: it would be die black. They would use that instead 222 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: of the host. And then when he had it at elevation, 223 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: he would scream out. 224 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 4: Master, helpots. 225 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: And they put water in the chwelis instead of wine 226 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: to make holy water. They had somehow trained this goat 227 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: to urinate in a hole in the ground. And honestly, 228 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: out of that whole description, the turnip is the most 229 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: confusing part to me. 230 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: I have a theory a turnip is like a very 231 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 2: pure kind of white. Is the driven snow vegetable, And 232 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: when you die it black, it's sort of like a 233 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: putrification of purity. 234 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: I wonder if they just didn't have a budget, you know, 235 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: like if they just found a turnip. 236 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 2: So in this group, these folks would perform these acts 237 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: of witchcraft, and everyone gave a story as to how 238 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: the things they were doing were aiding in the infernal 239 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 2: causes of hell. 240 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 5: Right, this is very important. 241 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And supposedly they were doing this at least 242 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 6: twice a week and with at least sixty other people 243 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 6: gathered together. So imagine what we just described. Imagine doing 244 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 6: that twice a week. 245 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 4: It's like Wednesdays and Fridays. 246 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 2: So serious commitment a building community is really important though, 247 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 2: you know. 248 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 6: Well yeah, but it also is going to get into 249 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 6: later like why these why these descriptions are you know 250 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 6: there there are a lot of issues with them, so 251 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 6: let's let's just continue going. 252 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 5: You can't deny that it's spooky stuff though. 253 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 6: But the idea is if you were imagine you're in 254 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 6: the fifteen hundreds and you've read an account like that, 255 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 6: and maybe perhaps you believe that some of this could 256 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 6: be true. If even a small portion of the stuff 257 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 6: we just described was true, you know, which is conspiring 258 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 6: and doing these evil things, then European Christianity as it 259 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 6: stood as as an institution was basically in deep trouble. 260 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 6: And what could the righteous and upstanding citizens, the institutions, 261 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 6: the governments that are meant to protect those citizens, what 262 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 6: could they do to stand against some something so insidious 263 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 6: and hellish as this. 264 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: Well, nowadays we like to say, no one expects the 265 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: Spanish Inquisition. 266 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 5: Right, birds h nerds anybody? No, Okay, it's just a 267 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 5: mony python right. 268 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:05,719 Speaker 6: I got it. 269 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: But back in the day, the thing is, the Inquisition, 270 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: especially the Spanish one, was very much expected because they 271 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: were real pills. 272 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 4: These were dangerous dudes. 273 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: Who saw themselves, at least ostensibly as agents of the 274 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: divine and they thought their ultimate goal was not just 275 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: a root out wickedness, but to save souls. And if 276 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: a few bodies had to be broken or a few 277 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: people had to be tortured for the greater good. Yeah, Well, 278 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: like russ Cole says and true detective, sometimes you need 279 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: bad men to keep the other bad men from the door. 280 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 5: So how did these inquisitions work? Right? 281 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 2: So, contrary to popular belief, the Inquisition wasn't just created 282 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 2: to hunt down witches. 283 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 5: It was much broader than that. 284 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 2: Beginning in the twelfth century, the Catholic Church set up 285 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 2: the Office of the Inquisition to punish anyone that was 286 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 2: even remotely speaking out against Catholicism. And they saw it 287 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: as heresy, which was literally any religion or belief system 288 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: that was not Catholicism. 289 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 6: Yeah, so they weren't just hunting witches. That's not what 290 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 6: it was about. They were also persecuting, torturing, and murdering 291 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 6: people of other faiths, Muslims, people of Jewish faith. They 292 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 6: were It was the worst manifestation, or let's say, the 293 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 6: worst manifestation of the Inquisition occurred when the Spanish Inquisition 294 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 6: executed over thirty two thousand people over the course of 295 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 6: two hundred years. 296 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: I'm not a math scholar or anything, but those are 297 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 2: those numbers are troubling, I would say. 298 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: I mean, so, yeah, they were very much expected, you 299 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yep, And we also see all 300 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: sorts of allegations like what so, no, what were they 301 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: actually looking for. 302 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: They were looking for things like well poisonings, poisonings of 303 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: the well, which I think is an emo band, which 304 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 2: is a great name, influencing the weather for nefarious purposes, 305 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: because that was a big deal. 306 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 5: I would, you know, wipe out people's crops. 307 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: You blamed the witches, right, There wasn't any meteorology, just 308 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: one hundred percent, so why. 309 00:14:58,640 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 4: Not blame a witch? 310 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: Also practicing any sort of thing that could be remotely 311 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: considered magic, even innocuous magic, even early medical science, like 312 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: healing people with herbs that would get you hanged, or 313 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: making prophecies, engaging in any kind of thing that looked 314 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: like a ritual that also didn't look super catholic. 315 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 4: Oh oh, I forgot my favorite. 316 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: There was this big thing about people transforming dudes into 317 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: horses and riding them around at night. 318 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 4: It was like a huge. 319 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 6: Issue as like a punishment. Yeah, that sounds so much fun. Okay, 320 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 6: all right. Anyway, they were also accused of seducing other 321 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 6: members of their community. They were accused of messing with livestock, 322 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 6: making cows milk go bad, or just. 323 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 5: Hurling inside out like the aliens. 324 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 4: No, no, it's just bad milk. 325 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, or they would just out and out kill them. 326 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 6: They would curse people. Sometimes they'd be accused of murdering 327 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 6: and assassinating people. There there, they were accused of all 328 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 6: kinds of things. 329 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so magic aside, what whatever you you may believe, 330 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 2: Did anyone actually do any of these absolutely bonkers things 331 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 2: that we've just laid out. 332 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy. 333 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: So yes, yes, sort of, we're not saying magic works, 334 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: but there were real people genuinely doing at least some 335 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: of the stuff that witches were accused of doing. 336 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 4: The problem is. 337 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: The people accused of witchcraft and all these dastardly things. 338 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: These people generally just fell into like a few very 339 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: much non evil witch necromancer categories. They were like midwives, 340 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: traditional healers. I mean, if you think, not to get 341 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: too topical, but if you think that healthcare stinks nowadays, 342 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: thank your lucky stars you were not alive during the 343 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: Middle Ages. 344 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 4: It was terrible. 345 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: Infections ran rampant. Things that can be cured with a 346 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: pill nowadays could be a death sentence. Back then, infant 347 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: mortality was cartoonishly high, and many women also died in 348 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: the process of childbirth. It was a dangerous, dangerous time. 349 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 2: So let's just imagine that your a grieving spouse or 350 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: parent who's recently lost a loved one in childbirth. You 351 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 2: know that you're a good Christian spiritually speaking, God has 352 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 2: no reason to smite you or your loved ones. Right, 353 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 2: So someone must have put their proverbial finger on the 354 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: proverbial scale, flipping it in a very tragic direction. 355 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 4: Right. So what does that all mean? 356 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 2: Well, it means that your immediate suspect is the midwife, right, 357 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 2: because she's already sort of on the fringes of society. 358 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 2: As you mentioned earlier, she is a practitioner of these 359 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: cures that involve herbs and some of these more esoteric remedies. Right, 360 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: so if she has the ability to use things to heal, 361 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 2: surely she must also have the ability to use these 362 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: things to kill. 363 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, So we found something written by Lee Wayley. She 364 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 6: wrote Women in the Practice of Medical Care in Early 365 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 6: Modern Europe, and I'm just going to read a quote 366 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 6: from that to you guys. It says, during the Renaissance, 367 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 6: a number of strategies were taken to eliminate women and 368 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 6: other popular healers from the medical feshion. And this was 369 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 6: the period when medicine and science lost their spiritual dimensions. 370 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 6: So healers as healers magicians and wishes. Wishes lost their 371 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 6: claim to manipulate the spiritual forces of the world. So, 372 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 6: now this is important, right, that that idea that the 373 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 6: spiritual and medicine just were completely divorced from one another, 374 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 6: and no longer can the herbs or anything make me 375 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 6: feel better. It has to be something that a doctor 376 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 6: tells me. And here's why that's important. The exclusion took 377 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 6: two paths. One the new requirement for people practicing medicine 378 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 6: to have a license. And here's the catch. If you 379 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 6: were a woman, you couldn't get the license. It was 380 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 6: almost like they were purposefully or they was as though 381 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 6: they were purposefully creating turning it into a male dominated thing. 382 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 2: So much misogyny wrapped up in all of this stuff 383 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 2: in the way in the Middle Age, Well. 384 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 6: Yeah, because because women couldn't go to university to get 385 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 6: the training necessary to get that license, so then therefore 386 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 6: they cannot work in that field. And the other thing 387 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 6: here is that if there is a traditional healer, you 388 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 6: could literally just say, oh, well that's a witch. 389 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 4: Yeah it was. 390 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: It sounds silly nowadays, but if you had a problem 391 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: with someone, you could just accuse them of being a 392 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: witch that flew like people believed it. 393 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 5: Call them a witch. 394 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 2: Then you just have things, and you have like folks 395 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 2: like seers or other practitioners of fortune telling or the like. 396 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 2: They had a strong connection to the other side, right, 397 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 2: people like you researched this matt Ursula Southhile, also known 398 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 2: as Mother Shipton, and she was believed by many of 399 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: her contemporaries in the seventeenth century in England to be 400 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 2: a witch because of her belief that she could foresee 401 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 2: the future things like executions, fires, and plagues. 402 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 5: She actually predicted. 403 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: Or foretold rather that the end of the world would 404 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 2: come in eighteen eighty one, and she. 405 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 6: Also supposedly predicted the Internet would be a thing. 406 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 2: No, however, predicts the internet except al Gore kind of 407 00:19:58,240 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 2: did that. 408 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 6: Well in the seventeenth century. She was talking about how 409 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 6: one day soon information will just be in the ether, 410 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 6: will be everywhere, which is its Wi Fi? 411 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, or whatever in cloud. 412 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 2: So luckily she was not persecuted in the same way 413 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 2: that many women of her ilk were. She was never tortured, 414 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: she was not killed, and thankfully the end also did 415 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 2: not come in eighteen eighty one, so she may have 416 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 2: been off the mark on that particular. 417 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: Also, like side note, though, how many people predict the 418 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: end of the world every year? Like does anybody else 419 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: have end of the world fatigue? You know, like I'm 420 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: a nineties baby and I can't recall a year that 421 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to be the last. 422 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 5: I'm ready for it to happen. 423 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 4: I don't like that dispoint. 424 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 5: Wow, sorry, hot take, hot take. 425 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 4: Well we'll finish the show. We'll finish this. 426 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 6: I genuinely thought it was going to be December twelfth, 427 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 6: I think, or what was it, twenty twelve. Joe Rogan 428 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 6: had a show that night. I thought it was going 429 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 6: to be over. 430 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 5: He's a witch bro. 431 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 4: Everything was fine, so other people would be. 432 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: As we mentioned before, doctor, there's medical practitioners of some sort, 433 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: but also people who were practicing not just the non 434 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: Christian religion, but a non Catholic religion. 435 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 4: Because we have to face it. 436 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: Despite the best efforts of the Church at the time, 437 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: everybody knew Christianity was far from the first religion on 438 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: the block, and Catholic churches had sought to subvert, supplant, 439 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: and suppress pre existing belief systems. But when you have 440 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: a tradition and it's deeply rooted, people are going to 441 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: continue to practice it to the best of their abilities, 442 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: so they'll just go underground. And these weren't evil beliefs 443 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 1: by any means. These are things like ancestor worship, animist beliefs, polytheism, 444 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: and so on. And because the Church, because that clashed 445 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: with social control, they conflated all of these practices with 446 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: things like sorcery, necromancy, etc. 447 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 2: And then you have the category of folks with legitimate 448 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 2: mental illness. Mental illness or what is today referred to 449 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 2: as a neuroatypical behavior existed during that time as well. 450 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 2: Of course, in some cases, folks with mental illness or 451 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 2: cognitive conditions might have actually been considered blessed by God 452 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 2: are capable. 453 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 5: Of receiving visions from on high. 454 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone's seen Mid Summar, but one 455 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 2: of the characters that sort of is the village seer, 456 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 2: is someone that clearly has a condition of this sort. 457 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 2: But then it would there would be the flip side 458 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 2: of it, right where that was much more prevalent, absolutely, yeah, no, 459 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 2: And then there'd be the flip side of it where 460 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 2: they were absolutely victimized and used as scapegoats because it 461 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 2: was an easy way to say which devil. 462 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, speaking of scapegoats, this has been a running theme 463 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 6: of this entire episode. Another group of people who were 464 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 6: victimized were vulnerable members of society, like widows, the disabled. 465 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 6: And again, what's the main thing you've been hearing probably 466 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,959 Speaker 6: that's just been kind of hitting the back of your 467 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 6: head is the misogyny that was involved in all of 468 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 6: this stuff. In fact, the largest demographic of people persecuted 469 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 6: for witchcraft were actually elderly women, and a lot of 470 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 6: that had to do with well, there's a lot of 471 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 6: it that had to do with misogyny just at large. 472 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 6: But hold on a second. We were talking about the individuals, right, 473 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 6: We're talking about each individual person, what their role was, 474 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 6: why they were persecuted. But what about the whole idea 475 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 6: of them getting together and working together? 476 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 4: Right? 477 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 7: Yes, so we did stereotypes of witches and we just 478 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 7: busted that, hopefully, right, hopefully so I think we did. 479 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 7: And we did stereotypes of covens. Yes, well, what were 480 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 7: real covens? See, that's the thing. 481 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: History is funny, and history is a lot more dynamic 482 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: than people would sometimes have us believe. History is a conversation, Right, 483 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: William Faulkner said, the past isn't over, it's not even past. 484 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: And what we look at when we dig into covens 485 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: and the concept of covens is that the idea that 486 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: a coven was a name for a group of witches 487 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: came way, way, way afterward after any of these events. 488 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: The word coven first came around sometime in fifteen twenty 489 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: so there had already been witch hunts, and it wasn't 490 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: used to describe meetings of witches until a trial in 491 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: sixteen sixty two for a woman named Isabelle Goudi. 492 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 4: Before then, it was just like meet up. 493 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, it was just a hangout. 494 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 5: Yeah. 495 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 6: And it wasn't until nineteen twenty one that that term 496 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 6: became popularly associated with the gatherings specifically of witches. And 497 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 6: this association was made within an author, Margaret Murray's work, 498 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 6: The Witch Cult in Western Europe. I love that title, 499 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 6: and yes, oh me too, And this work also helped 500 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 6: solidify there's a common idea that within a coven there 501 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 6: would be thirteen members, exactly thirteen members, and there are 502 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 6: some accounts that say that's twelve actual what you would 503 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 6: call witches, as well as either a leader or the 504 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 6: devil or deity themselves. So you'd have actually like twelve 505 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 6: apostles and then one leader or one deity, right. 506 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 2: And Murray actually believed that having twelve witches was a 507 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 2: mockery of Jesus's twelve disciples. And while it's true that 508 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 2: the number thirty teen does hold significance within certain wick 509 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: and belief systems, the number of members of a coven 510 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 2: was generally not a requirement. There was no hard and 511 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 2: fast rule. But we have also found several modern covens 512 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 2: that do only allow thirteen members. So why did people 513 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 2: bother hunting witches in the first place? I think partially 514 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 2: it was because they genuinely believed they were doing God's work, 515 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 2: fighting the infernal and insidious forces of hell, of darkness. 516 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, that's what it said on the label. Sure, 517 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 4: but there's a dirty truth to this. 518 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: You see, the way the laws usually worked said that 519 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: if someone was convicted of witchcraft, whomever they were, the 520 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: person who convicted them got their possessions, all of their 521 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: worldly possessions, like, good job you. And this means that 522 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: in many cases witch hunters were working on commission. 523 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 6: Basically that's a problem. 524 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so like you have some bills to pay, you're 525 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: a witch hunter, you probably have three or four victims 526 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: picked out. And now you know, Fortunately for history, for anthropology, 527 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: for science, for humanity at large, these inquisitions and these 528 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: other persecution programs did not wipe out every non Catholic religion, 529 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: and you can still find modern groups identify as covens 530 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: or witches or pagans of some sort today. 531 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 6: So let's get a little bit closer to modern day 532 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 6: and talk about witchcraft occurring right now. We've got some 533 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 6: further examples a little bit further down here, but we 534 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 6: do know that a lot of groups within the United 535 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 6: States and across the whole world practice a range of religions. 536 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 6: If you're imagining witchcraft is one thing, you are just 537 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 6: dead wrong, because it's there's so many different belief systems 538 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 6: that can be or that are commonly described in that way, 539 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 6: and it's all stuff that might even fit the old 540 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 6: Catholic definition of witchcraft, even though it is not that. 541 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 6: We also know that some of the most historically prominent 542 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 6: versions of a coven or witchcraft group, such as this guy, 543 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 6: Gerald Gardner's New Forest Coven, they have been soundly debunked 544 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 6: by research that's occurred in the modern day. 545 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 2: And later research it does continue into the modern day. 546 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: So let's think about the adventures of an American anthropologist 547 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 2: by the name of TM Lherman. In nineteen eighty five, 548 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 2: TM Luhrman moved to London and kind of embedded herself 549 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 2: in what you could consider a contemporary British form of 550 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 2: witchcraft and magic, which is very much still around today, 551 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 2: and she asked herself, why would anyone take up the 552 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 2: practice of magic, something as weird as magic, especially since, 553 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: according to observers that she interviewed, it doesn't necessarily work. 554 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: So to find out, she attended hundreds of secret meetings 555 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 2: and this is a from an article from The New 556 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: York Times reviewing a work that she did called Covens 557 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 2: and Chaos Groups. She enacted dozens of rituals, and she 558 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 2: actually wrote some herself, which kind of shows you how 559 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 2: open ended improv Yeah, it's absolutely improv As she read 560 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 2: tarot card, she sewed her own magic robes. She even 561 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 2: would ingest psychotropic substances to get into some sort of 562 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 2: fugue like reverie state, the type that the Druids would 563 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 2: have put themselves into in order to conduct their magic. 564 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 4: Right, yeah, allegedly allegedly. 565 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 6: And one of the main things she discovered that was 566 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 6: occurring within a lot of these groups was cognitive dissonance. 567 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 6: This this idea that the people who were, you know, 568 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 6: magicians in witches, the people that she was associating with, 569 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 6: often remembered their magical successes. So if they're going to 570 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 6: do a ritual or something, they remember that time. Then 571 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 6: something kind of worked out a little bit better than 572 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 6: the failures. The ones were absolutely nothing occurred, and the 573 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 6: definition of success ended up becoming so broad and subjective. 574 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 6: And it's just that you realize, or she realized that 575 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 6: there was a lot of generous interpretation that was occurring 576 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 6: within the group and within the with the individuals. 577 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, solely for comparison. Some of us probably work with 578 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: metrics and things in our day jobs. Right, we have 579 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: a way to measure success. This this way of measuring 580 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: success was a lot less like, uh, let's look at 581 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: the facts, and a lot more like, well, I did 582 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: a ritual with water yesterday, and uh I saw some 583 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: water the next day, so boom. 584 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 5: You know. 585 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 6: But it's also not to completely discount it, right, That's 586 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 6: not what we're saying. We're just we're just saying it 587 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 6: was easier to believe it if you were within the 588 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 6: group and you had those beliefs already. 589 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 2: That's the same way when you you know, design an 590 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 2: algorithm and you say this is the end all be 591 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 2: all of something, there's somebody else that says, no, mine, 592 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: mine is the end all be all. It's the same 593 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 2: with anything when you interpret data and information. It's a 594 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 2: lot of it is kind of happenstance, and it's hard 595 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 2: to know exactly which one is the right answer, right. 596 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 6: Yeah, Yeah, here's the thing. Okay, so we're talking about 597 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 6: a specific version of witchcraft. But it is very very 598 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 6: important to note here that there are still human beings 599 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 6: across the planet right now in some very particular areas 600 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 6: that are being accused of witchcraft still and they are 601 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 6: being hunted for that reason. 602 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: And are these are isolated cases, but it's true. Again, 603 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: we're not saying magic works, but there are more people 604 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: than you might believe who are practicing what they would 605 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: call this left hand magic stuff. Let's talk about something 606 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but 607 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: narco cults. Right, we know what cartels are, we know 608 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: what the narcos are, Right, there are actual narco cults. 609 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: There was this sort of black magic that was happening 610 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: in Mexico, and we wanted to give you a specific 611 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: case of this. In nineteen eighty nine, Mexican authorities stumbled 612 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: across a genuine human sacrifice cult that was related to 613 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: the drug cartels. 614 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 4: They were led by a guy. 615 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: Named Adolfo Costanzo, who was only twenty six. 616 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 4: By the way, he's a cult leader at twenty six. 617 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 5: That's pretty good. 618 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean kind of. 619 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know. 620 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 4: I mean it wasn't a good cult though. 621 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: As the thing, Oh okay, it wasn't like a friendly 622 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: mister Rogers type. 623 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 2: I'm just saying, I'm thirty six and I feel you. 624 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: Yet I fell asleep trying to put on my pants once, 625 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: so like this this thing is, this is weird. He 626 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: and his followers were called the Narco Satanists. They committed 627 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: multiple acts of human sacrifice, adopted from non Satanic Caribbean 628 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: religions up to and including cannibalism, because they thought it 629 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: would render them invisible, invincible, immune to bullets, and they 630 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: you know, we have to ask did they really believe this? 631 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: The answer I would argue is yes, because they were 632 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: killing people. They were literally wearing necks plats of human 633 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: vertebrate when authorities caught them. 634 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 6: You go through, they have to have believed it. 635 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 2: I think at least this all goes down to the 636 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 2: power of belief for sure. And they were eventually caught, 637 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: thank god, during an investigation into the death of an 638 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: American by the name of Mark Kilroy, who is one 639 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 2: of their final victims. So at least at the end 640 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: their covens, magic didn't didn't just save them from being 641 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 2: found out. And it turns out that magic motivated murders 642 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 2: are popular across the entire globe. You've got areas of 643 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 2: South Asia, some parts of Europe, the Middle East, and 644 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 2: several African countries where people are genuinely absolutely being murdered 645 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 2: for perceived reasons that are magical related. 646 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 6: Yeah. I think we're all familiar with albinism or you know, 647 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 6: being in albino. A lot of people with who suffer 648 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 6: from albinism are hunted in places like Tanzania and MALOWI 649 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 6: are sorry, how do you say it? Malawi? 650 00:32:58,880 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 5: Malawi? 651 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 6: They are They're murdered because their organs are being harvested 652 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 6: for magical purposes. I know that sounds crazy, but it's true. 653 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,959 Speaker 6: Their hair and their body parts where a lot of 654 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 6: times or throughout history the subject of folklore of magical interest, 655 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 6: specifically in those regions, but recently they've been touted as 656 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 6: a crucial component of any sure fire potion making. So 657 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 6: if there's some witch doctor a in a tribe somewhere 658 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 6: and they want to make a potion. They will seek 659 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 6: out this stuff. 660 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: Money, wealth, power, true love, you know, all the all 661 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: the basic ones. And in Saudi Arabia and in the 662 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: Islamic State, multiple people have been executed, like very recently 663 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: for the crime the perceived crime of witchcraft. 664 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 6: Now, now, okay, we've been yeah, we've been going over 665 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 6: all the historical stuff, the scary stuff. Let's let's talk 666 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 6: about if you're going to go out right now and 667 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 6: try and find a coven here in Manhattan. Uh, here's 668 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 6: the cool thing. You can do it, and they exist, 669 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 6: and you can actually probably go to a greeting or 670 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 6: to a gathering. You could probably if it's a full 671 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 6: moon or a new moon, you can go right now. 672 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 6: There's a website. If you aim your browser at witch 673 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 6: vox w I T C h v o x dot 674 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 6: com you can find all of the locally or a 675 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 6: lot of at least the locally run covens, clans and coves. 676 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 4: You got an example for us, I do. 677 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 6: Do you wanna? Can you go over it a little 678 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,879 Speaker 6: where I can tell you, Yeah, it's called hecate. That's 679 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 6: one way to say it's other hecat is another way 680 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 6: to pronounce it. But Hecate's Sacred Temple Torchbearer of the Crossroads. 681 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 6: This is self described as a group of those who 682 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 6: are devotees or followers of the goddess Hecate that wish 683 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 6: to belong to a temple that honors and worships her. 684 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 6: And uh, who is. 685 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 7: Hecataeu It's the It's the Greek goddess right, Yeah, it's 686 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 7: the ancient Greek Hecata, as described on wicca spiritually dot 687 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 7: com as the goddess of all doors, gates all transitions 688 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 7: from one place to another or state of being, and 689 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 7: the original hedge sitter, the hag, the hex mistress. 690 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 2: I'm a fan of people with multiple superlatives like that. 691 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 6: Yeah, she's described as like the queen of witches in 692 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:15,399 Speaker 6: a lot of places. 693 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 2: Sure, And this particular group, Hackate's Sacred Temple offers classes 694 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 2: and other opportunities for the curious to learn about their 695 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 2: organization and believe. I don't want to downplay anything, but 696 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 2: it almost feels more like a community group or like 697 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 2: a like a nice kind of like knitting circle or 698 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 2: something more than it is some sort of like devil worship, 699 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 2: be sacrificing. 700 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: It's like a rotarian vibe or something. 701 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 6: That's the whole point. It's it's a place for people 702 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,240 Speaker 6: to hang out and worship the way they want to worship. 703 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's what I don't want to skip. There 704 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: are modern witches, there are modern covens. None of them 705 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: are out to get you. None probably just want to 706 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: hang out. 707 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 2: With really quickly, I just met somebody a little while. 708 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 2: I'm not going to out anybody, but it was. 709 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,240 Speaker 5: Like, Yeah, I had a coworker who was a witch. 710 00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 4: She was super cool. 711 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 2: I loved hearing the story about her beliefs. Didn't like 712 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 2: her as a person kind. 713 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 4: Of because we met them. 714 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 2: We all met we absolutely, yeah, but had nothing to 715 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 2: do with the belief system more just kind of a 716 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 2: creepy person. 717 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 718 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 6: But my hairdresser who just moved away. Sadly, you have 719 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 6: a hairdresser or a salon person, a person who does 720 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 6: my hair. She's amazing, she's she's waking, and she just 721 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 6: moves away and im and I'm just so sad. But she, Uh, 722 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 6: she was incredible because she could touch my head and 723 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 6: then tell me things about my son's life. 724 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 4: Oh weird, dude, do you think she just looked on 725 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 4: your Facebook? I mean I'm not trying to be rude. 726 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 6: That probably so, but but it is true. 727 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: People tend to just be people, and that's like, maybe 728 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: maybe that's a disappointing spoiler for some folks, But the 729 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: vast majority of ancient witches and covens, just like the 730 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: vast majority of the ones around today, they were not 731 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: after you either. You know, the more we dig into 732 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: this question, the more apparent it becomes that the allegations 733 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: of some vast, shadowy conspiracy of individuals in league with 734 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: infernal powers, we're just not true. They there may have been, 735 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: and they're likely were isolated groups of people in communities 736 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 1: practicing pre Christian spiritual traditions, but they weren't out. 737 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,720 Speaker 4: To like take over the world for Satan. 738 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: And I know that's gonna be kind of rough news 739 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: for some heavy metal fans out there. 740 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 5: I'm sad personally sad about Yeah. 741 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,439 Speaker 6: I mean, it's a bummer, but it's true portsinacious d. 742 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 5: So you know, there you have it. There. 743 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 2: There really are real, real life witches and real life 744 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,360 Speaker 2: groups identifying themselves as covens. But as Ben said, the 745 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 2: vast majority are harmless practitioners of spiritual beliefs that they 746 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 2: hold deep and deer, and they're certainly not not out 747 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 2: to get you. 748 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, or are they? 749 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 5: I think they're I think they're probably not. 750 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, they're probably not. But that is our show. 751 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming, everybody. We hope that 752 00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: you enjoyed it. 753 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 4: We ho o. 754 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 6: Alright, thank you so much. 755 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 4: Thank you Coddle, thanks to Paul, thanks to you, thanks to. 756 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 5: You, Bag, thank you. 757 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 6: Stuff They Don't Want You to Know is a production 758 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 6: of Iheartradios How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, 759 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 6: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 760 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 6: to your favorite shows.