Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning,
Speaker 1: This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
Speaker 1: episode is going to be a longer one part of
Speaker 1: the series where I interview fascinating people about how they
Speaker 1: take their days from great to awesome and any advice
Speaker 1: they have for the rest of us. So today I
Speaker 1: am delighted to welcome Melody Wilding to the show. Melody
Speaker 1: is the author of the brand new book Managing Up,
Speaker 1: how to get what you need from the people in charge.
Speaker 1: So Melody, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to have you. So why don't you tell
Speaker 1: our listeners a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my background is as a therapist and that's how
Speaker 2: I started my career. I teach human behavior at their
Speaker 2: graduate level and am a executive coach, and all of
Speaker 2: my work is really about helping people find what I
Speaker 2: call your professional power position, where you are able to
Speaker 2: manage your own psychology at work, your own insecurities, doubts,
Speaker 2: hang ups, but you're also tackling the other side of
Speaker 2: the equation, which is influencing other people's psychology. And that's
Speaker 2: where managing Up comes in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I have to say I get a lot
Speaker 1: of career books, leadership books, etc. Crossing my desk, there
Speaker 1: are not that many that go in that direction, right,
Speaker 1: that are about managing up. And so I wonder how
Speaker 1: you came to this topic and why it was interesting
Speaker 1: to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, A big thing is because my first book,
Speaker 2: Trust Yourself, came out in twenty twenty one, and that
Speaker 2: was really the managing yourself side of the equation, and
Speaker 2: what I kept hearing from people over and over, regardless
Speaker 2: of what level they were at, whether they were more junior,
Speaker 2: but most of my clients are mid to senior level,
Speaker 2: and there was this theme of where all of my
Speaker 2: confidence breaks down is when I have to deal with
Speaker 2: people that feel more intimidating to me, or I'm in
Speaker 2: those rooms or those conversations that feel higher stakes. And
Speaker 2: there was this conce distant theme about managing up, dealing
Speaker 2: with people in authority, navigating politics and power dynamics. And
Speaker 2: so I think for so many of us, especially those
Speaker 2: who are recovering people pleasers, this is not a skill
Speaker 2: you're really taught yet. So much of it comes down
Speaker 2: to being able to leverage your empathy, your emotional intelligence,
Speaker 2: just channel it in a different way.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And one of the things you say in the
Speaker 1: book is, I mean, this is not about, you know,
Speaker 1: flattering your boss, like managing up is not purely about
Speaker 1: making sure your boss thinks he or she is the
Speaker 1: most awesome person in the world, and by reflection, you
Speaker 1: are too. I guess maybe you can talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about what it truly means and why this
Speaker 1: might be a benefit to someone beyond just you know,
Speaker 1: getting in good with the people in charge.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I appreciate you saying that, because that is most
Speaker 2: of the time we hear managing up and we think
Speaker 2: sucking up. Right, we equate those two things together. And
Speaker 2: it makes sense because traditionally, for decades, that's how it
Speaker 2: was portrayed. If you think about like Wolf of Wall
Speaker 2: Street or any of those old movies, the person who's
Speaker 2: managing up is the person who's running behind the boss
Speaker 2: with the coffee order and just the yes person. And
Speaker 2: the workplace has changed, but also what people want out
Speaker 2: of work has changed, and so rather than having that
Speaker 2: subordinate order taker mentality where it's just managing up is
Speaker 2: me pleasing my boss, what I am advocating for and
Speaker 2: when I see people do this successfully, they realize that
Speaker 2: managing up is something you actually do for yourself. It's
Speaker 2: something you do to create the conditions for your success,
Speaker 2: whether that is pushing back, giving feedback up the chain
Speaker 2: of command, being able to set limits and expectations around
Speaker 2: the work, getting clarity around what success does look like
Speaker 2: in your role so you can track against that, advocating
Speaker 2: for your own advancement. Those are all things that put
Speaker 2: you in the best position to get what you need
Speaker 2: from the people who.
Speaker 1: Are in charge. Absolutely, So you have ten conversations in
Speaker 1: this book that you want people to have with with
Speaker 1: their managers as part of managing this relationship. We're not
Speaker 1: gonna be able to talk through all ten, unfortunately, but
Speaker 1: I do want to talk about a few of them.
Speaker 1: Why don't we start with the alignment conversation? I guess
Speaker 1: we truly want to know what the person sees as good, right.
Speaker 2: That's right, we have We have to start there because
Speaker 2: if we don't know what we're trying to work towards,
Speaker 2: we're we're going to be spinning our wheels, right, And
Speaker 2: that's that's where when we fail to have the alignment conversation,
Speaker 2: we feel frustrated. We feel like we're sidelined because unbeknownst
Speaker 2: to us, we may not be working on what our
Speaker 2: boss or the organization actually sees as important or promotable work.
Speaker 2: And so that's why it is the first conversation in
Speaker 2: the book. It is the most foundational. It also tends
Speaker 2: to be an easy entry point because so much of
Speaker 2: it is about observation, noticing what is important to your manager,
Speaker 2: but also asking good questions. So this is not having
Speaker 2: to come right out and advocate for yourself. It's mostly
Speaker 2: being a good listener.
Speaker 1: And we're not starting with promote me. We're going first
Speaker 1: in with being like, well, well, you can tell me
Speaker 1: what are some good questions I should be asking a
Speaker 1: manager in order to make sure that our visions of
Speaker 1: success are aligned.
Speaker 2: Correct. Yeah, ask a better question, you get a better answer.
Speaker 2: And so instead of just saying, well, what are your priorities,
Speaker 2: you might get a surface level answer from that. A
Speaker 2: few of my favorites from that chapter. One of them
Speaker 2: is what are the metrics your boss is discussing with you?
Speaker 2: Because that gives you almost a very instant shortcut into
Speaker 2: what your manager is being evaluated against and guess what
Speaker 2: they're going to care a lot and give a lot
Speaker 2: of attention to that. So that's one of them. Another
Speaker 2: one is what does good performance look like in this
Speaker 2: role to you? And then pause, let your manager answer
Speaker 2: and say, great, what does great performance look like now?
Speaker 1: And you may put a.
Speaker 2: Timeframe around that over the next three or six months
Speaker 2: or by the end of the year. But that one's
Speaker 2: really useful because that comparison between good and great it
Speaker 2: helps get under the hood of maybe some of the
Speaker 2: unspoken or abstract, the intangible qualities that your manager or
Speaker 2: the organization sees make someone a high performer that may
Speaker 2: not come out in a roadmapping or KPI exercise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you mentioned that earlier in your career at
Speaker 1: one point, like sometimes all these alignment conversations or sense
Speaker 1: it will surface some things like you've learned that your
Speaker 1: role is expendable, And I guess that's good to know.
Speaker 1: I mean, you went through that in your career at
Speaker 1: one point.
Speaker 2: Right, I did I talk about that in that first chapter.
Speaker 2: It is really something I kept hidden for many years
Speaker 2: because I was embarrassed by it. And yes, I had
Speaker 2: failed to have the alignment conversation deep enough. I had
Speaker 2: surface level alignment with my manager, what are we accomplishing
Speaker 2: day to day, week to week? But I really fail
Speaker 2: to push further and say why is what I'm working
Speaker 2: on important to the business and how is that being reported?
Speaker 2: And what budget is going into this? I did not
Speaker 2: dig deeper. I didn't have the courage to do it. Frankly,
Speaker 2: I think maybe I was afraid of the answer now
Speaker 2: as I reflect on it further, But yes, you know
Speaker 2: when time came for cuts that my role was eliminated
Speaker 2: because it wasn't core, was seen as a money pit.
Speaker 2: And this is where, yes, we're not going to get
Speaker 2: to all ten conversations today, but were some of the
Speaker 2: other ones could save you. For example, if I had
Speaker 2: been on top of having more of the visibility or
Speaker 2: the networking conversation, then I might have had other advocates
Speaker 2: behind my boss who knew about my skills beyond just
Speaker 2: what I was doing on this one project, who may
Speaker 2: have been willing to pull me over to their teams.
Speaker 2: But I did it. So it's an extreme example of
Speaker 2: what can happen.
Speaker 1: Absolutely Well, we're going to take a quick ad break
Speaker 1: and then I'll be back with more from Melody Wilding.
Speaker 1: Well with Melody Wilding, who is talking about her brand
Speaker 1: new book, Managing Up. We're learning how to deal with
Speaker 1: the people in charge, not just to flatter them, but
Speaker 1: in order to make sure that we get what we
Speaker 1: want out of our careers. So we were talking about
Speaker 1: aligning and making sure that what success looks for our
Speaker 1: managers is informing what we are we are doing with
Speaker 1: our time at work. Another one of these important conversations, though,
Speaker 1: is the style one. And I wonder how much of
Speaker 1: clashes or people perceive as trouble and like I have
Speaker 1: a terrible boss or something like that, is a different
Speaker 1: style and how we can sort of suss out what
Speaker 1: this person.
Speaker 2: Is A lot to answer your question, A lot of
Speaker 2: what I see conflict tension in the workplace does come
Speaker 2: down to a difference in styles, because what we often
Speaker 2: perceive as someone being difficult, you know, they're hard to
Speaker 2: work with, is actually a we're talking past each other
Speaker 2: in terms of our preferences, our approaches are values around
Speaker 2: the work And so how can we susce this out?
Speaker 2: You said, we need to really focus on decoding the
Speaker 2: people around us, because when we can understand that, when
Speaker 2: we can put their behavior in context and see this
Speaker 2: is a product of how this person's lens and this
Speaker 2: is not them trying to talk over me, railroad me.
Speaker 2: We stop taking the work so personally and we can
Speaker 2: make thoughtful adjustments to how we do that. So in
Speaker 2: the book I talk about how, if you look at
Speaker 2: a lot of the psychological research, communication styles really break
Speaker 2: down into two dimensions. We have dominance, how assertive and
Speaker 2: how much control does someone like? And we have associability
Speaker 2: how much connection and rapport building interaction with other people
Speaker 2: does the person want so higher low. You plot that
Speaker 2: and we get again, broadly speaking, four different communication styles.
Speaker 2: There are lots of different models for this. In the book,
Speaker 2: I call them the four c's. And let's just take
Speaker 2: a classic example. You may be working for someone who
Speaker 2: in the book I would call a commander. This is
Speaker 2: someone who is highly dominant and lower on sociability. These
Speaker 2: people are very results oriented, they get to the point fast,
Speaker 2: they move quickly. They really don't care as much about
Speaker 2: people's feelings and consensus, and so sometimes they can seem
Speaker 2: a bit dismissive and dominant. Frankly, now, you may be
Speaker 2: someone who is what I would call a caretaker, the
Speaker 2: exact opposite someone who is low on dominance and high
Speaker 2: on sociability. You value stability, harmony, You do value relationships.
Speaker 2: You want everyone to be happy and on board. You
Speaker 2: care about morale. And a classic clash between these two
Speaker 2: people is that the caretaker is someone who likes to
Speaker 2: think before they act, who may need questions in advance,
Speaker 2: who want to deliberate before they make a decision, whereas
Speaker 2: the commander is someone who just wants you to get
Speaker 2: right to the point. And so if you, as a
Speaker 2: caretaker employee, are approaching your manager and you're leading with
Speaker 2: all of the context and background and the theory and
Speaker 2: how we got here, your manager is likely going to
Speaker 2: cut you off and say that's great, I don't really care.
Speaker 2: Can you tell me the main point of what you
Speaker 2: need from me right now? And that's when you feel dismissed,
Speaker 2: right you feel like I put so much time into
Speaker 2: this and you're just cutting me off here. And so
Speaker 2: not only again, we can put that into context and
Speaker 2: not take it personally that my boss hates me and
Speaker 2: I should just leave, but we can also just make
Speaker 2: little tweaks. I call it flexing in the book flexing
Speaker 2: your style. You don't have to change who you are
Speaker 2: and what you value. You just change how you package
Speaker 2: and present it. So instead of leading with all the context,
Speaker 2: you give your executives a summary or a few bullet points.
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, that benefits you
Speaker 2: because you eliminate a lot of stress for yourself. Your
Speaker 2: message actually lands and again you're not you're not not
Speaker 2: being true to yourself. You are still getting what's important
Speaker 2: to you across but in a way they're actually going
Speaker 2: to hear.
Speaker 1: And I suppose that goes in the other direction too.
Speaker 1: I mean you can envision the opposite where you have
Speaker 1: more of a caretaker boss and you are very kind
Speaker 1: of to the point kind of person. You're walking in
Speaker 1: and saying I want this, and the person's like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: can't do that right now? And because they want the
Speaker 1: whole context, they want you to lead up to it,
Speaker 1: like why or why am I asking for this? Like
Speaker 1: what's the background? Who else has done this? They want
Speaker 1: all that sort of information first.
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Yeah, and you can you can make
Speaker 2: that thoughtful adjustment pretty easily, right, just just come with
Speaker 2: a little bit of the background and that's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, really quick story gets them on the all at ease.
Speaker 1: It'll all be good. And part of this though, of course,
Speaker 1: is you have to know yourself then, because I'm sure
Speaker 1: there's plenty of people like, well, I don't know which
Speaker 1: C I am? So how are we? How do we?
Speaker 1: How do we go about figuring that out?
Speaker 2: Yes? Well, in the book there's there's a much deeper
Speaker 2: kind of diagnostic that it that it walks through all
Speaker 2: of the different values, the strengths, the weaknesses of all
Speaker 2: of the different types. But in that chapter there's one
Speaker 2: exercise that actually is my favorite in the entire book.
Speaker 2: I call it the me Manual, which is you creating
Speaker 2: a guide to yourself as a professional. This is something
Speaker 2: you do first and foremost for yourself because most of
Speaker 2: us never slow down to think about our own preferences.
Speaker 2: It's just the water we swim in, so we've never
Speaker 2: taken the time to articulate actually, how do I make decisions?
Speaker 2: How do I like to receive feedback? What are some
Speaker 2: of the maybe unspoken expectations I have about how quickly
Speaker 2: work should be done or when when my hours on
Speaker 2: or off are And so your MEW manual actually forces
Speaker 2: you to get that down on paper. It's almost like
Speaker 2: your operation manual to you it can absolutely be something
Speaker 2: you share with your manager. I have people who are
Speaker 2: in workplace cultures where they bring this to their boss
Speaker 2: and they say, listen, I want to give you the
Speaker 2: chee chet for getting the best performance out of me,
Speaker 2: and we can talk through some highlights here. And I
Speaker 2: have had people who say their boss is like, this
Speaker 2: is pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Can can I do this too?
Speaker 2: Because I want to give this to my leader. So
Speaker 2: you never know the reaction you might get, but at
Speaker 2: the very least, it gives you a way to be
Speaker 2: able to assert your preferences and your style when you
Speaker 2: need to. So an example is, let's say that a
Speaker 2: new project team is coming together. And I'm using this
Speaker 2: example intentionally because managing up it, especially in today's workplace,
Speaker 2: it doesn't always look like or rather I should say,
Speaker 2: it has to look like extending beyond just our direct supervisor,
Speaker 2: because we're dealing with other people in power beyond our boss.
Speaker 2: And so let's say you have a new project team
Speaker 2: coming together and there's other folks from cross functional divisions
Speaker 2: who have more authority than you. What I always suggest
Speaker 2: is that people at the beginning of those types of relationships,
Speaker 2: you are the one to say we are not always
Speaker 2: going to see eye to eye. And when we have
Speaker 2: those situations where we have to work through some sort
Speaker 2: of conflict or tension or prioritization, how do you want
Speaker 2: to approach that. What are the sorts of things you
Speaker 2: weigh or that are important to you that I could
Speaker 2: bring to that conversation, And you let that person respond,
Speaker 2: and you say, that's so helpful for me. Here's what
Speaker 2: I would really value, Here's how I tend to think
Speaker 2: through these things. So it becomes more of a two
Speaker 2: way street rather than you just becoming a chameleon who's
Speaker 2: adapting to everybody else.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. One of the other conversations is about boundaries, and
Speaker 1: you know, this is a podcast about time management, and
Speaker 1: so one of the things that obviously you know, keeps
Speaker 1: people from managing their time in the way that they
Speaker 1: want is that their manager is making demands that are
Speaker 1: perhaps not helping in that regard. So let's say that
Speaker 1: your boss is making demands that is making your life bad.
Speaker 1: How can you approach them to get to a better place.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, let's start with the fact that why is
Speaker 2: this so hard for us? And because most of us
Speaker 2: we're trying to straddle this tightrope of wanting to be
Speaker 2: a team player, right, we need to create that perception
Speaker 2: that we're collaborative. We step up when it matters, but
Speaker 2: at the same time, we don't want to be a pushover.
Speaker 2: And I always say, you teach people how to treat you,
Speaker 2: and so those having those boundaries, we want to make
Speaker 2: sure we're teaching people to respect our time and our bandwidth.
Speaker 2: And so start by asking questions, because so often, when
Speaker 2: yet another thing is dumped on our plate, yet another
Speaker 2: task is given to us, we go to one extreme
Speaker 2: or the other. We go to the extreme of the
Speaker 2: people pleaser passive, Sure, I'll get it done, I'll figure
Speaker 2: out how to fit it in. Or we are already
Speaker 2: at our limit and we snap back, and even if
Speaker 2: it's our manager, we might say, I can't believe you're
Speaker 2: giving this us. We're already underwater. So rather than those
Speaker 2: two extremes, ask questions first by yourself a little bit
Speaker 2: of time to calm down and get more details about
Speaker 2: what's involved, because you may not always know on the
Speaker 2: face of it, is this something I want to say
Speaker 2: yes to or no? You can ask things like what's
Speaker 2: driving the urgency here, what's the real deadline, Who else
Speaker 2: is this visible to or who else is going to
Speaker 2: be involved? Why did myself or my team come to
Speaker 2: mind for this at first? And that can give you
Speaker 2: a lot of good details to decide maybe this is
Speaker 2: a good exposure opportunity or a skill building opportunity for
Speaker 2: me or somebody else on my team. It can also
Speaker 2: give you information about maybe I can redirect this to
Speaker 2: somebody else. Maybe you find actually this is a process
Speaker 2: that sits with operations or HR not with us, and
Speaker 2: it gives you a leg to stand on to redirect it.
Speaker 2: That's one thing is to ask questions first so you
Speaker 2: know what's involved in that chapter. I give a number
Speaker 2: of other different frameworks you can use for setting boundaries.
Speaker 2: My favorite of those is the trade off approach, which
Speaker 2: is essentially saying, I hear that you want both X
Speaker 2: and Y done. In order to do that, then we
Speaker 2: need to delegate or deprioritize something else. Are you okay
Speaker 2: with that? When you do that, you're setting up a
Speaker 2: Actually what's in what in research is called force choice, right,
Speaker 2: you are setting up the illusion of control that someone
Speaker 2: can only choose from A or B, and you're just
Speaker 2: highlighting the reality that both of these things cannot be done,
Speaker 2: but you're also approaching it from problem solving perspective. You're
Speaker 2: not just shutting the request down and saying we can't
Speaker 2: do that. You're approaching it to say, Okay, I understand,
Speaker 2: I want to make both of these things happen, but
Speaker 2: something has to give and subtly, especially if this is
Speaker 2: someone who is maybe a level or two above you,
Speaker 2: it's important to also signal that you do have some
Speaker 2: recognition of the hierarchy. You are putting it back in
Speaker 2: the other person's core to say, you make the call.
Speaker 2: I can make a recommendation to say, based on from
Speaker 2: where I said, I think we should prioritize A and
Speaker 2: then pick up B in a couple of weeks. But
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's your call. You
Speaker 2: tell us what to do, and then we'll execute that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. It's like what we do with toddlers.
Speaker 1: You could wear the red pants or the blue pants.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't want to wear any pants. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not really a choice.
Speaker 2: Do you know what is so funny? As I have
Speaker 2: been talking about the book, that example has been brought
Speaker 2: up over I would say a dozen times now it's
Speaker 2: so interesting what we do with.
Speaker 1: Course choice with everyone. All Right, well, we're going to
Speaker 1: take one more quick ad break and then we'll be
Speaker 1: back with more for Melody Wilding. Well, I am back
Speaker 1: with Melody Wilding, who is the author of the new
Speaker 1: book Managing Up about getting what we want from the
Speaker 1: people in charge. Let's talk about if it doesn't happen
Speaker 1: the first time though, maybe you ask for something, you
Speaker 1: try to have a conversation about boundaries or even about
Speaker 1: you know, future promotions or anything like that, and you
Speaker 1: get a lot of resistance. Is this just the way
Speaker 1: it is? Or the things we can do to kind
Speaker 1: of work through the resistance over time?
Speaker 2: I would say there's always things you can do. Everyone
Speaker 2: has their threshold of how much they are willing to do.
Speaker 2: But in the book, I took a lot of care
Speaker 2: to make sure that there was a lot of tips
Speaker 2: and strategies for what do I do when this happens
Speaker 2: or I get this objection or this type of resistance.
Speaker 2: So a moment ago we were talking about boundaries and
Speaker 2: a common form of resistance you may get there is
Speaker 2: when someone tries to guilt trip you to say, oh,
Speaker 2: but I thought you were a team player, I really
Speaker 2: expected more from you. When that happens, you can actually
Speaker 2: turn that assumption around and say, I'm bringing this up
Speaker 2: because I am a team player, because I do care
Speaker 2: about us being successful, and because of that, I to
Speaker 2: make sure our deadline is realistic here. And so that's
Speaker 2: a really good strategy there.
Speaker 1: When that happens, excellent, excellent.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: One of the things I always ask people with this
Speaker 1: show is about your own personal productivity. Do you have
Speaker 1: any routines in your daily life that help you be
Speaker 1: more effective?
Speaker 2: Yes, I am disciplined. Is my top strength finder strength
Speaker 2: if you're familiar with that. And the way that ends
Speaker 2: up manifesting for me is I try to eliminate so
Speaker 2: much decision fatigue from my life, and so I am
Speaker 2: one of those boring people who eats the same thing
Speaker 2: every day because I want to remove the decision fatigue
Speaker 2: of worrying about what I have to eat, and I
Speaker 2: have processes for things I need to do in my business.
Speaker 2: I am always looking for ways how do I remove
Speaker 2: little choices and decisions so that I have brain power
Speaker 2: for all of the other things. I start all of
Speaker 2: my days the same way with a workout, and that
Speaker 2: really helps just wake my brain up in the morning.
Speaker 2: But yes, routine is huge for me because I forget
Speaker 2: who said it, but that idea of discipline equals freedom
Speaker 2: for me, That's absolutely true.
Speaker 1: I'm curious when you say there are certain things you
Speaker 1: do with your business to like, do you devote certain
Speaker 1: times each week to certain aspects of your business? Is
Speaker 1: it like time block that way? What's the what does
Speaker 1: that look like?
Speaker 2: Great question? So I do time block. But what I
Speaker 2: have found works for me is I do almost like
Speaker 2: themed days when I can. So I have sort of
Speaker 2: on days and then content creation days. My on days
Speaker 2: are podcasting, speaking, meetings clients, and then I have days
Speaker 2: where I don't have to be on camera, I don't
Speaker 2: really have to be speaking out loud, and I'm heads
Speaker 2: down and creating emails or writing podcasts and things like that.
Speaker 2: So for me, I kind of kind of think about
Speaker 2: what mode do I need to be in, and I
Speaker 2: try to you know, thankfully, I do have more control
Speaker 2: over my schedule than the average person. I try to
Speaker 2: batch those things together. It's not always possible, but it
Speaker 2: definitely helps me eliminate some of that context switching.
Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent. And then I also ask guests, what is
Speaker 1: something you've done recently to take a day from great
Speaker 1: to awesome?
Speaker 2: Oh, what is something I've done to take a day
Speaker 2: from great to awesome? I have really been making an
Speaker 2: effort to get outside more because someone who works from home,
Speaker 2: it's very easy to just sit at your desk for
Speaker 2: eight hours a day, and finally the weather is starting
Speaker 2: to get better, and it just it just shifts your
Speaker 2: whole perspective. There's something just about getting outside that and
Speaker 2: also just changing modes. Like I was saying, context switching
Speaker 2: a moment ago, sometimes you need those breaks in the
Speaker 2: day as almost a reset moment. I'm always telling my
Speaker 2: clients because they are people who will beat themselves up
Speaker 2: and say, oh, well I wasted today, the day is gone.
Speaker 2: Don't get into that all or nothing thinking. Every moment.
Speaker 2: You know, every hour is another chance to reset, and
Speaker 2: just taking that break to go outside can be that
Speaker 2: opportunity to say, all right, now, this is the second
Speaker 2: half of the day, how do I want to make
Speaker 2: this successful? Even if the first half didn't quite turn
Speaker 2: out just as I wanted it to.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you can always seize any sort of fresh start.
Speaker 1: What are you looking forward to these days?
Speaker 2: Oh, I am looking forward to we are actually now
Speaker 2: that the book is out, we're in the process of
Speaker 2: completely revamping a lot of my programs and we just
Speaker 2: went through a huge rebrand, so it's been very fun
Speaker 2: and exciting to shift everything to be around this idea
Speaker 2: I was talking about before, of the professional power position,
Speaker 2: kind of the combination of mastering yourself and also influencing others.
Speaker 2: So that's been a lot of fun, and it's also
Speaker 2: been intellectually challenging, let's put it that way.
Speaker 1: That's so exciting. It's always good to shake things up
Speaker 1: in a good way. Melodie, where can people find you?
Speaker 2: You can head to Melody Wilding dot com. All the
Speaker 2: information about my books speaking, everything's there.
Speaker 1: Awesome, Melie, thank you so much for joining us. Thank
Speaker 1: you for everyone for listening. If you have feedback about
Speaker 1: this or any other episode, you can always reach me
Speaker 1: at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and here's to making
Speaker 1: the most of our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
Speaker 1: If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach
Speaker 1: me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast
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