Speaker 1: Hey, welcome. It s Doug gollib here and you are
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Speaker 1: Let's start in Chester, Pennsylvania. Okay, Um, I've only heard
Speaker 1: stories about your dad, Butch, I don't. But there are
Speaker 1: stories from other people, and occasionally you've sprinkled them in
Speaker 1: in in other interviews. Um, what's your what's your first memory?
Speaker 1: Your dad coached kids like growing up, So what's your
Speaker 1: first memory of of basketball? First memory of basketball? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: I know your dad had you surrounded, uh by a
Speaker 1: lot of things basketball wives growing up. So my dad
Speaker 1: would take me to this hole in the wall, Jim.
Speaker 1: It had a root that had a heater up in
Speaker 1: the corner. I can remember this because I was like
Speaker 1: four years old, um, and there was no place to
Speaker 1: stand while my dad and all these other guys were playing. Um,
Speaker 1: So I would go up by the heater and sit
Speaker 1: on a plank and watch these guys play, and then
Speaker 1: as soon as the game is over, a quick pop down,
Speaker 1: grab a basketball and start shooting. That's my first memories
Speaker 1: of being in a so called jim. It was a
Speaker 1: poor excuse for jim, but that that was that's my
Speaker 1: first exposure. What was it called, Well, it was in Upland, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: which is a burrow right outside of Chester. UM. And
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what it was called, because I
Speaker 1: don't think it had a name. Uh. They just said
Speaker 1: let's go to the gym. And it was right next
Speaker 1: to a Baptist church that we were members of. UM.
Speaker 1: So I can I can see it to this day
Speaker 1: exactly what it looked like. UM. But that's my first
Speaker 1: time being in a gym that I can remember. And uh,
Speaker 1: and shooting a basketball that way. Now. Otherwise we had
Speaker 1: like Carton's mail, two telephone poles in the alley where
Speaker 1: we would throw not regular basketballs, and we would throw
Speaker 1: any round ball we could. But that was that wasn't
Speaker 1: a gym that was outside sure Umber. Okay, you you
Speaker 1: played quarterback and you were a point guard, A very
Speaker 1: good point guard at high school? Were you were you
Speaker 1: better at quarterback? No? I was not a very good quarterback.
Speaker 1: M I. Uh. I didn't throw interceptions, believe it or not.
Speaker 1: I didn't turn the ball over. Uh. Kind of like
Speaker 1: that's how we tried to coach UM. I was trying
Speaker 1: to inject a little Humber there, Doug. But I don't
Speaker 1: I got it. I got it. I believe it. But football.
Speaker 1: But football looked different, like look, football look different even
Speaker 1: when I was in high school. I can only imagine
Speaker 1: there was a lot of three yards in the cloud
Speaker 1: of dust. I just didn't know, if you exactly right.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it atin We had a
Speaker 1: button hook. UM. My top receiver was a guy named
Speaker 1: Donald Wesley. His son ended up playing at Baylor and
Speaker 1: in the NBA. Uh, David Westley m So that was
Speaker 1: my that was my tight end. UH. My center was
Speaker 1: Teddy Catrell, who was a defensive coordinator for four or
Speaker 1: five different NFL teams. And we won one game in
Speaker 1: three years in football because everybody just got ready for basketball.
Speaker 1: That's the way Chester was. Football was not um a
Speaker 1: sport that got any attention because everybody just waited until basketball.
Speaker 1: See it. Why did you go to Wilkes University will
Speaker 1: Wilkes College? Uh? I went there because Ron Rainey, my
Speaker 1: high school coach, took the job. UM. And what happened
Speaker 1: was I had been talking to Temple and Rectors and
Speaker 1: a few other places, and uh it sure made it
Speaker 1: easy when the person you were playing for for three
Speaker 1: years is going to take you for another four. Um.
Speaker 1: But there were no scholarships that way. What I did
Speaker 1: was stilled out the application, and having been captain the
Speaker 1: three sports and president of my class, I ended up
Speaker 1: getting a leadership grant which paid for most of it.
Speaker 1: But I had to do fifteen hours a week of
Speaker 1: work study. So I had some different jobs. I had
Speaker 1: some interesting jobs. One year I worked in the post office.
Speaker 1: One year I worked in the dish room UH. One
Speaker 1: year I worked UH doing the LNG picking up sheets
Speaker 1: and pillar cases and then distributed in the clean ones. UH.
Speaker 1: And then the final year I had I was in
Speaker 1: charge of in the rules. So worked up pretty well.
Speaker 1: It's it's amazing. It leads me to what I want
Speaker 1: to get to. When you first started coaching high school
Speaker 1: and then started coaching UH in college, So how how
Speaker 1: good were you at Wilkes Well, I got to play
Speaker 1: as a freshman. That was the other advantage back then. UM.
Speaker 1: The other guys that went to say Temple, for example,
Speaker 1: you couldn't play as a freshman, So I being a
Speaker 1: type A, UM, it's not playing as a freshman just
Speaker 1: didn't seem right or you know, not had a full schedule.
Speaker 1: Freshman did play, but nothing like the varsity UM, and
Speaker 1: so What happened was I got to shoot the ball
Speaker 1: more again in in college because they needed scores. They
Speaker 1: had not had a very good record UM prior to
Speaker 1: coming prior to uh US going there, So I did
Speaker 1: score more. So I ended up in double figures two
Speaker 1: or three or four years. Having been a point guard
Speaker 1: at Chester, I was a distributor UH and we had
Speaker 1: five of us and kind of average between nine and
Speaker 1: sixteen points at Chester. UH. But it works. My teammate
Speaker 1: and I a young man by name of Ruben Daniels,
Speaker 1: my roommate the first year UH, he and I were
Speaker 1: two of the top scores because they definitely needed help.
Speaker 1: You mentioned I got to shoot more. You mentioned you
Speaker 1: you played for the same coach in college that you
Speaker 1: did in high school. That okay, So you have you
Speaker 1: have your dad as your formative years. Then you have
Speaker 1: this coach who coaches you for you know, all these
Speaker 1: kind of growth years. What what were there? Like, Let's
Speaker 1: start with your dad. What was his how did how
Speaker 1: did he coach? What was his style? Going way back
Speaker 1: when that's a good question because my answer will tell
Speaker 1: you a lot. He had He coached football and he
Speaker 1: probably won ring out of every ten games. He coached,
Speaker 1: He had three plays. His team's blocked and tackled better
Speaker 1: than everybody else for thirty years. Um fundamentally sound as
Speaker 1: you can get for a youth football program. Um. In basketball,
Speaker 1: same thing. He kept it pretty soap, but they screamed, rebounded,
Speaker 1: and took care of the ball better than anybody else. Um.
Speaker 1: So he was very successful coaching and biddy league basketball,
Speaker 1: you football, Uh, and in baseball you talk about a
Speaker 1: percentage guy. He played the percentages that that's where he
Speaker 1: coached Billy White, Hughes Johnson, m American and Agian baseball.
Speaker 1: And he only used Billy basically as a finch runner
Speaker 1: in late innings. But he was he was his sound
Speaker 1: fundamentally is And I didn't think much of a thing.
Speaker 1: I just thought that's the way everybody is supposed to coach. H. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, Yeah, you know it's it's interesting though because
Speaker 1: um just a little little snapshot. My dad obviously is
Speaker 1: uh was is uh kind of you know, brought like
Speaker 1: same way, like all of our practices when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, like you know, we'd start out with you know,
Speaker 1: we didn't do ball handling as much as everything was passing,
Speaker 1: you know, like monkey in the middle, drill bolling the
Speaker 1: ring drill two men, you know, two men jump stopped
Speaker 1: passing all the way down, like all these kind of
Speaker 1: basic fundamentals and fundamentals with spacing, and I just thought
Speaker 1: that's how all practices were kind of interesting. Fast forward
Speaker 1: to our recently canceled uh bronco league. My son's just
Speaker 1: turned to Levins ten, just turned eleven. Basically, I know,
Speaker 1: I know he loved it. I want to tell me
Speaker 1: tell you how um so he he. I've been like
Speaker 1: the assistant coach because I travel around during March so
Speaker 1: much for baseball for a couple of years. Finally this
Speaker 1: year is like, you know, like next year, he's probably
Speaker 1: gonna be club the whole year. I don't coach him.
Speaker 1: In club, we let a professional, but in this one
Speaker 1: I want to coach him. So I wasn't even there
Speaker 1: for the first game, but I had run practices and
Speaker 1: all the parents like, man, you draft a really good team. Gosh,
Speaker 1: we're gielding really well. First game, like we made no errors,
Speaker 1: and so my wife is like, well, you'd be really
Speaker 1: proud of of how you drafted. I said, I did
Speaker 1: think I drafted a good team, but all we did
Speaker 1: in practice was groundballs and throws the first and back
Speaker 1: in and up and that's basically it. You know, we
Speaker 1: worked because the expression I use is the fundamentals are
Speaker 1: the fundamentals. Like for any sport, the basics are the basics.
Speaker 1: And until you can do the basics, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what plays you run or you know what creative things
Speaker 1: you can find if in basketball you can't dribble, pass,
Speaker 1: not just shoot, but also catch, right like, catching is underrated,
Speaker 1: catching the basketball with balance on that catching a start,
Speaker 1: it isn't it isn't. No, no, you're not free flowing
Speaker 1: conversation just whatever. Um. But but it's it's amazing that,
Speaker 1: uh that as much as we'd like to think our
Speaker 1: sports have advanced, like things that your dad taught still work.
Speaker 1: They work in every sport at every level. And we
Speaker 1: we get we get law. Sometimes we get lost as
Speaker 1: guys who love our sport, and we get way ahead
Speaker 1: of ourselves. Jump stop, pump fake you you mean for university,
Speaker 1: that's that's when a lot of people referred to us
Speaker 1: at Wisconsin and and look at and by the way
Speaker 1: team and and and by the way, who who plays
Speaker 1: like that? In addition, to Wisconsin now going over right,
Speaker 1: Like Jay has done a lot of things, but Jay's
Speaker 1: teams are incredibly fundamentally they jump, stop in the lane
Speaker 1: and make plays and make the extra pass and pass crisply.
Speaker 1: That the best bounced pass team I've ever seen, UM,
Speaker 1: because all they do in practices throw bounced passes like
Speaker 1: it's really a beauty to what. Okay? So then what
Speaker 1: was your your high school coach that became your college coach?
Speaker 1: What was his name again, Ron Rainy? Okay? So what
Speaker 1: was Ron Rainey's state in the fifty uh also played
Speaker 1: baseball and was the captain and played in the College
Speaker 1: World Series in the late fifties and tenth state. UM.
Speaker 1: And then he took the job at Chester And that
Speaker 1: was my sophomore year. We had four junior highs that
Speaker 1: fed into one high school, UM, so we we all
Speaker 1: came in as sophomores. And it was Rainey's first year.
Speaker 1: And after three games, our sophomore team killed people. We
Speaker 1: were like by thirty each game and the varsity was struggling.
Speaker 1: And he figured his first year what he was gonna
Speaker 1: do was may as well get the guys that I'm
Speaker 1: going to develop for down the road. So he brought
Speaker 1: three of us up from the sophomore team and then
Speaker 1: we started every game the rest of the way. But
Speaker 1: he was he was fundamentally sound as a coach. You
Speaker 1: guys play fast one him. I went behind my back,
Speaker 1: uh and made a pass on a on a fast
Speaker 1: break at the next time out. He just looked me
Speaker 1: in the eye and said, it better get there. You
Speaker 1: can do it, but a better get there. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got your coach. Yeah, No, Coach Sutton was. Coach
Speaker 1: Sutton was much the same way. Um, okay, so you
Speaker 1: get you get done playing. Did you have a plan?
Speaker 1: Did you know what you wanted to do? Did you
Speaker 1: want to be like your debt? Like, what was the
Speaker 1: what was the take me back? You graduate from Wilkes
Speaker 1: College in nineteen sixty nine, What was all right? I mean,
Speaker 1: in a crazy time in society, you're getting done with college?
Speaker 1: What what were you thinking? What I did? Here's what
Speaker 1: I did. I actually, um did an interview. I looked
Speaker 1: at the FBI, UM met with really just to see,
Speaker 1: you know, just to get an idea if it would
Speaker 1: be something, um that I'd be interested in. But I
Speaker 1: had a degree in business economics marketing. Uh, and Arco
Speaker 1: Atlantic Richfield had hired me, offered me a contract, So
Speaker 1: I signed with Arco. Was ready to start working for them,
Speaker 1: and you know, become a CEO eventually or become envisional
Speaker 1: manager whatever, you know, trying to move up in the
Speaker 1: business world, that way, corporate world. And uh, then I
Speaker 1: got drafted. Um, and I always kid. I got drafted
Speaker 1: by the team in green and people go, oh, the Celtics.
Speaker 1: The Army. Um. So I went in the Army and
Speaker 1: it's amazing talking to you because I know about your family,
Speaker 1: your dad. So I'm an the Army and I'm not
Speaker 1: playing basketball. I'm not playing team sports for the first
Speaker 1: time in my life. But I'm on a team, the
Speaker 1: Army team, but not the basketball team. So I get
Speaker 1: stationed at Fort Lordon, Georgia, and I get in some
Speaker 1: pickup games and the guy comes up to me and says,
Speaker 1: WHOA where did you play? What it? Uh? What? Why
Speaker 1: don't we know about you? I slo, I'm a draftee. Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have you on the team. Uh you want
Speaker 1: to play? We go and play a different basis and
Speaker 1: you travel And I said, are you kidding me? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd love to well, my commanding officer because of the
Speaker 1: MLS that I had working with prisoners in the stockade UM,
Speaker 1: they said they couldn't afford to have me go td
Speaker 1: Y temporary duty and play basketball off for the post team.
Speaker 1: So I was crushed, you know, I thought it be
Speaker 1: you know, something I really enjoyed, and so I couldn't play.
Speaker 1: So there I am in the Service. I didn't know
Speaker 1: if they're I was going to get sent to now
Speaker 1: sixty seventy one, that was a pretty hot spot. UM
Speaker 1: in the country are in the world as we know.
Speaker 1: So I didn't get sent and I stayed at Fort
Speaker 1: Gordon for my two years. While I was in the Service.
Speaker 1: Do the things about my dad working with kids and
Speaker 1: developing young people, Well, I decided to teaching coach. So
Speaker 1: with a business degree, I didn't have the student teaching
Speaker 1: and a few other UM courses that you needed to
Speaker 1: be certified in Pennsylvania. So I took a year did
Speaker 1: that after getting out the Service, got my teaching certification
Speaker 1: and started coaching and teaching in junior high school. What
Speaker 1: you sevent two? So you so you showed what what
Speaker 1: was it? What was the name of the junior high
Speaker 1: Brooke hadn Junior High right outside of Chester. It's right
Speaker 1: next to Chester. It's Uh, one side of the street
Speaker 1: is chest to the other side of the street is Brokaven.
Speaker 1: So say you're Brooke Haven Junior High School. And then
Speaker 1: from there, didn't didn't you go? Didn't you go to
Speaker 1: to Wisconsin for a like a what was it a
Speaker 1: girl's job? What was the what was the job that
Speaker 1: you went to next? Like Dominican College? It was an
Speaker 1: n A I a school in Racine, Uh, Dominican College.
Speaker 1: And what happened was I went there with Bill Cofield.
Speaker 1: Bill Cofield had been coaching at Prairie View and had
Speaker 1: done a pretty good job at Prairie View, but he
Speaker 1: won to come up north. He was from Illinois, UM,
Speaker 1: so he actually interviewed he actually interviewed for the u
Speaker 1: w ND job, and uh, he didn't get it. But
Speaker 1: when he was in the airport to fly back to Texas,
Speaker 1: he met the gentleman who was the president of Dominican College,
Speaker 1: and then the guy says, hey, we're looking for a coach.
Speaker 1: Our guy just left. So he ended up he ended
Speaker 1: up taking the job. And then he had also coached
Speaker 1: at Lincoln University which is in Lower Merian and Lower
Speaker 1: Merian was our one of our big rivals when I
Speaker 1: was a Chestain. And so what happens is he he
Speaker 1: ends up calling a couple of guys that had played
Speaker 1: for him, and these couple of guys say, hey, coach
Speaker 1: coke Field, but we know you remember that guy Ryan
Speaker 1: to play Blah blah blah. One thing led to another.
Speaker 1: He calls me up my interview over the phone. Take
Speaker 1: the job and go out to the scene Wisconsin and
Speaker 1: coach there for one year, and then the school folded financially.
Speaker 1: Uh and Cofield took the assistance job at Virginia. Cofield
Speaker 1: was the first black assistant coach hired in the A
Speaker 1: SEC basketball. You know when we caught a good break,
Speaker 1: Terry Hone Uh to this day, Um, it was one
Speaker 1: of the nicest gentleman I've ever met. Oh. And he
Speaker 1: had amazing staffs when he was at Virginia, just really
Speaker 1: remarkable guys that went on too great things. I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you, So you get to Dominican College and
Speaker 1: I think you did something that my dad told me.
Speaker 1: I remember his his first college job, he coached high
Speaker 1: school basketball all over Death Valley High school in Colorado Springs, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and like all all these towns, uh, Dylan Vale, Ohio,
Speaker 1: which is close to where John havel Check grew up.
Speaker 1: He was there for a year anyway. His his first
Speaker 1: college job was at Quinnipiac under a man named Burt. Come. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so he coaches don A. Burke on. So Burt says, listen,
Speaker 1: I need an assistant, but you gotta coach soccer, and
Speaker 1: you got to coach golf. Right. And my dad, though
Speaker 1: you know Jewish from Hewlett, New York, he was actually
Speaker 1: from the Bronx. They moved out to HeLa when he's thirteen. Like,
Speaker 1: he never played golf a day in his life and
Speaker 1: never played soccer day in his life. So I was like,
Speaker 1: how are you gonna He's like, not only did I
Speaker 1: have to learn how to coach? I bought books. I
Speaker 1: went to the library and I got a couple of
Speaker 1: books and how to coach soccer, how to coach golf,
Speaker 1: but also how to line the fields. I had to
Speaker 1: line the fields for for for the games. Now, I
Speaker 1: know your dad was a baseball coach, didn't you coach
Speaker 1: baseball Dominican as well? I did, And I don't know
Speaker 1: if you're set me up. But I don't want I
Speaker 1: don't want you to think I'm patting myself on the
Speaker 1: back here. But yes, I did coached one year in
Speaker 1: college baseball and got Coach of the Year. Um. We
Speaker 1: actually missed by a game to go to the Phoenix
Speaker 1: for the n A i A National Championships. Um. But
Speaker 1: I had played baseball, played shortstop, leadoff hitter. But again,
Speaker 1: all we practiced were the fundamentals and basketball practice. I
Speaker 1: would grab a peanut butter and jelly fane which and
Speaker 1: then the baseball guys would commit at night and we
Speaker 1: would go through situations. Um. You know how important to
Speaker 1: cut off man is, how important uh it is to
Speaker 1: you know with the personal second nobody out. Are we
Speaker 1: bunning or we're not bunning? Who's who can bunk? Who
Speaker 1: can who's you know what? All these different situations. The
Speaker 1: same thing that I did coach in basketball was at
Speaker 1: the end of every practice this do x number of
Speaker 1: possessions of up to one minute down to you know,
Speaker 1: go through the whole scenarios. Um. So we ended up
Speaker 1: having a great year, fun bunch of guys, and uh
Speaker 1: I was doing it while I was collecting unemployment because
Speaker 1: the school said they would not fund the coaching position
Speaker 1: or that the only people that were going to get
Speaker 1: paid were the people who were teaching classes to end
Speaker 1: the semester. So I did it while collecting an unemployment check. Uh.
Speaker 1: And we had fun. And we that that group of
Speaker 1: young men UM paid for their own gas as we went,
Speaker 1: you know, from different parts of Illinois and Wisconsin and
Speaker 1: Iowa wherever we played h and they ended up having
Speaker 1: the best year they ever had. Really had some fun.
Speaker 1: But yes I did and had the line in the field.
Speaker 1: It was catches catch kid, so to speak. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting we're in this era now where um
Speaker 1: and and we get into a little later if you want,
Speaker 1: we don't have to, you know, about players and compensation
Speaker 1: and and coaches and their level of compensation. And when
Speaker 1: I try to tell people in my profession in the media,
Speaker 1: is I understand that people in the media, many of
Speaker 1: them are are by their own accounts and by many
Speaker 1: pills accounts, underpaid, and that there there is a great
Speaker 1: disparity between some of these coaches. But gentlemen like yourself
Speaker 1: that by the end of your career, you're well compensated,
Speaker 1: Like it's like people forgotten the first ten years of
Speaker 1: your professional life when you made no money at all
Speaker 1: and line the field like right, like it's it's like
Speaker 1: a business, like everybody only looks at well, this guy
Speaker 1: in the business, he's killing it, Like yeah, okay, but
Speaker 1: what about the ten businesses that failed in the first
Speaker 1: five years where he was mortgaging everything of this new
Speaker 1: business before it actually took off, Like they're not all
Speaker 1: You just wake up become a college basketball coach and
Speaker 1: you're making a million dollars a year, Like that's not
Speaker 1: the way it works. Just like basketball players, you kind
Speaker 1: of gotta earn your way up. And here you are,
Speaker 1: you know, coaching junior high school basketball. For being in
Speaker 1: the army for two years, getting your master's degree, and
Speaker 1: then you're coaching in a college that becomes a defunct college.
Speaker 1: You're coaching a basketball but also coaching baseball, lightning the field,
Speaker 1: and then you got to find a new job while
Speaker 1: collecting on employment. Okay, so so you go back to
Speaker 1: what Sun valuation. Myself lucky because it's where I met
Speaker 1: my wife, so in in in in in Racine, in Recene. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a South Chicago girl. But she was graduating from
Speaker 1: UH Dominican and Uh, I was able to we were
Speaker 1: able to meet and did it at got married the
Speaker 1: next year. How did you meet her? Um? She worked
Speaker 1: in the athletic department. There was only one secretary. Uh
Speaker 1: And I mean it's kind of kind of common knowledge
Speaker 1: out there. She she was engaged and then he decided
Speaker 1: that you got You got her to flip a commitment.
Speaker 1: Was your first time ever getting somebody to flip their commitment?
Speaker 1: That's what you did. It was basically she was committed
Speaker 1: but had not signed a letter of intent right she was.
Speaker 1: It was oral commitment, soft commit and you got a
Speaker 1: flipic commitment. That's basically the story of people have questioned,
Speaker 1: you know, until you got Decker and Kaminski and all
Speaker 1: those guys like does bo really recruit? Like look, Bow
Speaker 1: got hurt a flip a commitment way back in the
Speaker 1: seven Well that and I beat her at free throws,
Speaker 1: and she said, anybody that can beat me at free throws, that,
Speaker 1: you know, he's got to be pretty good. Excellent. She
Speaker 1: was a pretty good free throw shooter. But there's always
Speaker 1: somebody better, right, no question, and no, there's yes, she
Speaker 1: had no chance against the which is kid from from
Speaker 1: from Chester p A, no no chance at all your
Speaker 1: competitive gene. Um. Okay, so you go to Sun Valley
Speaker 1: High School in Pennsylvania, got to take a take a
Speaker 1: high school job. Did you at that point? Did summer?
Speaker 1: I kept getting unemployment because um, the high school position
Speaker 1: didn't start paying until September one. UM, So that whole summer,
Speaker 1: what I did was I started a summer league, uh
Speaker 1: and got a lot of the local guys because it
Speaker 1: was in the same school district is Chest you know,
Speaker 1: the same conference now as Chester and uh one of
Speaker 1: the other schools on the south side of Philly. When
Speaker 1: I was playing at Chester, we had schools from the
Speaker 1: north side, Shelton, am Abington, Lower Maryon h Lawrence Town, Marple,
Speaker 1: New Town, schools like that. Um. But once I got
Speaker 1: the Sun Valley in that leg was Chichester, Chester from
Speaker 1: Sun Valley, UM Inner Berth. These are schools that most
Speaker 1: people out there obviously aren't familiar with. But what I
Speaker 1: did was because I was from the area, I had
Speaker 1: some current tacts that we actually put together a pretty
Speaker 1: good summer So that was fun. Plus uh, it kind
Speaker 1: of gave me a chance to you know, you weren't
Speaker 1: allowed to coach, but at least gave me a chance
Speaker 1: to see these kids playing, kind of like we do
Speaker 1: when we go to Vegas or Chicago or Affility for
Speaker 1: the au stuff. Um. So yeah, so I went to
Speaker 1: some vallet for two years. So here here's the big
Speaker 1: here's my big question. What kind of coach were you
Speaker 1: at Sun Valley? Like now you've experienced different levels an
Speaker 1: I a junior high school, your dad playing yourself, your
Speaker 1: high school coach. What kind of coach are you? I mean,
Speaker 1: I know the fundamental that I believe this. I know
Speaker 1: you're not gonna believe this, but we pressed thirty two minutes.
Speaker 1: I believe it. You pressed in your platfel didn't you?
Speaker 1: We pressed it some val at some valley and the
Speaker 1: plat yes, sure. And the pressure was an annoyance. It wasn't.
Speaker 1: We didn't have like thirty minutes a hell like lan Um.
Speaker 1: But we were in Luss. I had all these guys
Speaker 1: who were all between like five ten and six one,
Speaker 1: and I could shuffle guys in and out and people
Speaker 1: wouldn't even know there were different guys with the court.
Speaker 1: It was. But uh, finally, um, they brought in and
Speaker 1: we played in the state tournament. It's not like back
Speaker 1: then everybody got a chance to play. You had to
Speaker 1: You had to even win your conference or have some
Speaker 1: kind of wild card um selection to get in. So
Speaker 1: we ended up going in state tournament. Uh. This was
Speaker 1: very enjoyable, you know, it made believers out of a
Speaker 1: lot of people. And then that's when Coachfield was offered
Speaker 1: the Wisconsin shop. Right, so Bill cole Fields, if people
Speaker 1: are falling now, Bill Calefield, the same guy because you
Speaker 1: preview A and M, same guy who went to Dominican
Speaker 1: became the first African American assistant history of the a
Speaker 1: C at Virginia. Then in UH nineteen seventies six, was
Speaker 1: offered the job at Wisconsin, placing John Palace. Um, okay,
Speaker 1: so he calls you and after the American head coach
Speaker 1: in the Big ten. Wow, So so did he did
Speaker 1: you call him? Did he called you? Do you remember
Speaker 1: how you got the job? He called me? We had
Speaker 1: stayed until he said whenever he got his break. Um,
Speaker 1: he felt very confident that coaching McCarry holland with that
Speaker 1: team of Avaroni and Wally Walker and Stokes and um,
Speaker 1: whoever else they had that was pretty good team. Uh
Speaker 1: in Virginia played in the n c A tournament. So
Speaker 1: Mike Schuler was the other assistant. Mike Schuler was offered
Speaker 1: I believed Rice job and Coachfield was offered the Wisconsin job. Um,
Speaker 1: obviously at you know then it was the terment was
Speaker 1: smaller early on. Um, it expanded kind of late late
Speaker 1: during you know, it didn't expand until the eighties. But
Speaker 1: Wisconsin hadn't been the n A terman since nineteen forty seven. Um,
Speaker 1: it was a so and it's amazing you tell people
Speaker 1: that now they're like, no way, Like yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, STU got them there once. That was the
Speaker 1: first time. It was in ninety four. So forty seven
Speaker 1: and ninety four never been to the tournament, right, And
Speaker 1: you reached them every yes, I mean listen, but every
Speaker 1: year you were there, you went to its crazy every
Speaker 1: year you're there, I mean for it's a program. So
Speaker 1: what were the what do you remember about the challenges
Speaker 1: of Wisconsin then? Why was it such a challenging job
Speaker 1: in the Big ten to get to the tournament? Talked
Speaker 1: about when I was an assistant, Yes, okay, well you
Speaker 1: mentioned one the fact that they worked very many teams
Speaker 1: that were selected. Um, the field was not sixty four. Uh.
Speaker 1: The other thing was the Big Tenth was really good. UH.
Speaker 1: And not that the Big Ten isn't good now, of
Speaker 1: course it is. But when you think about all the
Speaker 1: guys from the Big Ten that played between seventies six
Speaker 1: and mid eighties. When I was in Wisconsin as an assistant, UM,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of town. There was a lot
Speaker 1: of town, a lot of good teams, and we just
Speaker 1: we just couldn't break through. UM. For the first time
Speaker 1: in my life with basketball, UH was part of the
Speaker 1: losing team. And I say a team because you know,
Speaker 1: it's not just coaching, it's not just players, it's not
Speaker 1: it's just UH. I just couldn't get it to mesh uh.
Speaker 1: And so therefore we will let go. And I was
Speaker 1: asked to keep the players who were there, that Brad Seller,
Speaker 1: Scott Roth, Corey Blackwells of the world. We needed to
Speaker 1: keep them there for the next coach. So I agreed
Speaker 1: to do that. UM. And then meanwhile, jud Heathcote had
Speaker 1: offered me a job, UH, and several other coaches in
Speaker 1: the Midwest had offered assistant coaching jobs. And then I
Speaker 1: just said, I'm going to stay here, uh if the
Speaker 1: new guy wants me find if not. So that was
Speaker 1: Steve Older came in. Um, we're recruiting a young man
Speaker 1: by the name of Ricky Olsen. He was from Madison.
Speaker 1: Turned out to be pretty good Big ten players. Um,
Speaker 1: and we're sitting in the living room and Coach Older
Speaker 1: gives his talk and then uh, he asked Ricky if
Speaker 1: he had any questions rick and Coach Older says the Ricky, Uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you got any questions? And Rickey goes, are you keeping
Speaker 1: Coach Ryan? So we hadn't even't talk. Really, we hadn't
Speaker 1: done because I had taken him right from the airport
Speaker 1: to Ricky Olsen's house. So Coach Oulder just said, well,
Speaker 1: of course I am. He says that I'm coming to Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: So anyhow, that's how that one worked out. And he
Speaker 1: had already told Mark Tetty was coming. And for people
Speaker 1: who are forgetting right, this is right, this is yeah.
Speaker 1: And Marquette obviously in the seventies won a national championship.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned how good the Big Ten was. People
Speaker 1: forget seventy six was the great you know, the great
Speaker 1: Indiana team as well. So team, right, So I mean
Speaker 1: like this is okay. Um, what what's fascinating me is okay?
Speaker 1: So now, Kfield, how did Cofield's teams play well? Um?
Speaker 1: In all fairness, he never really had a system. He
Speaker 1: would change sometimes he would change in the middle of
Speaker 1: the year. Um. And one of the things that I
Speaker 1: know people say about me, because they say it to
Speaker 1: my face, is that your your teams never change. You
Speaker 1: have a system. Well, you know, if the system is
Speaker 1: take care of the ball, get good shots, play good defense.
Speaker 1: But then you're gonna win a lot of games. So
Speaker 1: if that's a system, I like that system. Uh. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it was what I learned. He gave me the biggest
Speaker 1: break in my life. You got me into college coaching. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the one thing to take away I took away
Speaker 1: that I knew could help me is to get a tweak.
Speaker 1: Tweak what you have each year, you've got a little
Speaker 1: different teams, you do some different things, but developed players
Speaker 1: by having a consistent system, right, and people will get better. Um.
Speaker 1: And boy, when we got the plat Mill and I
Speaker 1: got to be a head coach, it really worked. That's
Speaker 1: what That's why I got a chance to do it
Speaker 1: as a head coach. And uh, and I've never changed
Speaker 1: after that. That's exactly the that That's exactly the age
Speaker 1: I wanted to get to. Okay, So how did the
Speaker 1: how did the Platfield job come about? Well, the gentleman
Speaker 1: that was there had had some good teams, but the
Speaker 1: last six seasons they had lost twenty or more games
Speaker 1: every year. So the position opened. You know, positions open
Speaker 1: because somebody the seal is not doing the job, or
Speaker 1: it's open because somebody was doing the job and left
Speaker 1: to go somewhere, or somebody retires. So um. George Crisp,
Speaker 1: whose son is now the head football coach at the
Speaker 1: University of Wisconsin, Paul Crest, his dad was the one
Speaker 1: that recruited me down to platfell Um. I had spent
Speaker 1: two years with coach Older, and I felt I needed
Speaker 1: to I needed to use the paint rushers. I didn't
Speaker 1: need to carry the paint kids anymore. Uh, just that
Speaker 1: itch that. Okay, I gotta sick my teeth into something here. Um,
Speaker 1: and I went in there with a lot of freshmen.
Speaker 1: Really weren't a whole lot of returning players that we're
Speaker 1: going to help us. But run in there and started
Speaker 1: doing some things, conditioning, running hills, ah, the weight training.
Speaker 1: The you know, having been in Division one, that's when
Speaker 1: weight training in the seventies was starting to be big
Speaker 1: because if you remember Robi and Phillips down at Kentucky
Speaker 1: and then like Purdue, you had a couple of guys
Speaker 1: I'm drawing a blank on their names now, but you
Speaker 1: remember those guys from Purdue. They got in the weight
Speaker 1: room a little bit in the seventies. Well, so we
Speaker 1: you know, we got the lifting weights a little more, uh,
Speaker 1: and I put a system in and that was a
Speaker 1: lot of Jack Ramsey stuff because he had coached in
Speaker 1: the in the St area at a Catholic school and
Speaker 1: then was at St. Joe's and then coach in the
Speaker 1: n b A, and then Jack McKinney lived across the
Speaker 1: street from him for a couple of years when I
Speaker 1: was like six seven eight years old. So pressure, pressure defense.
Speaker 1: So I got a chance to put that in early.
Speaker 1: And then again it was more a nuisance. But what
Speaker 1: happened was in we went I mean, we were not
Speaker 1: in scholarship at Platteville the whole time, but we were
Speaker 1: paying dues to the n A I A and n
Speaker 1: C A Division three. So coach Chris, George Chris, the
Speaker 1: football coach in the a D, came to me and said,
Speaker 1: h do you mind if we only go Division three
Speaker 1: from here on out? Because n A I a double
Speaker 1: there tripled their dues. And I said sure. I said
Speaker 1: that I don't coach for the trophy. I mean I'm
Speaker 1: coaching to develop these guys and you know, skill wise
Speaker 1: and things to get ready for later in life. And
Speaker 1: you know that's that mattered to meet with the Vision
Speaker 1: worry Um. So that first year that we went solely
Speaker 1: to Vision three, we won the national championship by pressure.
Speaker 1: We average nineties some points a game. Uh. Robbie Jeter
Speaker 1: was the captain of that team. They're just the guy,
Speaker 1: a skinny guy, about great, about a hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: pounds I think when he came to the plat bell Um.
Speaker 1: But that that group ended up winning our first national
Speaker 1: championship and it was worth pressure. And our last two
Speaker 1: national championship teams was more done with not very much pressure.
Speaker 1: And then the one in between and when we were
Speaker 1: thirty one and oh and beat Steve Alfred's team for
Speaker 1: the championship. Um, that was a combination. We pressured some,
Speaker 1: but we called it basically show and go like show pressure.
Speaker 1: But once the first baskets in get back because believe
Speaker 1: it or not, sometimes guys and they take them ball
Speaker 1: out of bounds. They getting lazy, they jump out, they
Speaker 1: think they've got bold, they're used to throwing it in
Speaker 1: right away. And then you get to steal, you get
Speaker 1: an easy basket, and a lot of good things happen. Um.
Speaker 1: But that's that's how we uh, that's how it went
Speaker 1: in at Platteville. But George Chris was the guy who
Speaker 1: taught me into taking the ten thousand dollar pay cut
Speaker 1: to be a head coach. What were you making was
Speaker 1: what were you making Wisconsin want to make a Platville.
Speaker 1: I was making like thirty five thousand that Wisconsin and
Speaker 1: took the job for twenty five thousand. That Platfell and
Speaker 1: Kelly and I we uh, after our first few years
Speaker 1: we realized, uh, eventually when we got there are five
Speaker 1: to having five children, we were one thousand dollars short
Speaker 1: on our income tax filing to receive free lunches for
Speaker 1: our kids at school. And I think she had tears
Speaker 1: in her rise, like not because we didn't get it,
Speaker 1: but We didn't realize the cut off line that we
Speaker 1: were living on with five kids, but who cared? We
Speaker 1: were okay um um the swing? How did you develop
Speaker 1: the offense? Well, when I was an assistant, I got
Speaker 1: a chance we could we could live scout in the seventies.
Speaker 1: Of course that stopped and once everybody got filmed on
Speaker 1: everybody else, and you build games on TV and in
Speaker 1: the exchange film so you could live scalt. So I
Speaker 1: can remember seeing uh, jud Heathcote, Probabu Night, Uh, Johnny
Speaker 1: or Luhnson? Uh? Who else? Uh? Trying to think Ludolson
Speaker 1: lives at Iowa, Rudolson. Anyhow, I could see these teams
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at the offenses, looking at defenses right
Speaker 1: in the scouting report up boom boom boom um developed
Speaker 1: a sheet that I ended up when I was running
Speaker 1: basketball camps and for the coaches in Wisconsin and all that,
Speaker 1: trying to hey, if you're going to do the scouting report,
Speaker 1: first th how far on the walls from the annualary?
Speaker 1: How much room do you have on the sideline whereas
Speaker 1: the scoreboard? Can you make a full court pass with
Speaker 1: two seconds to go? Are their obstructions are their banners
Speaker 1: hanging down, uh, and what kind of basketball are they using?
Speaker 1: And that was that was thirty years ago, orty years ago, um,
Speaker 1: because I'd always try to make sure I had at
Speaker 1: least one basketball of every kind of ball that the
Speaker 1: teams in the league were using. And people thought I
Speaker 1: was crazy. Um, there was a little method to the madness.
Speaker 1: So anyhow, that was that was kind of the beginning
Speaker 1: of the idea of the pressure. And there are times
Speaker 1: that we used pressure, uh in from two thousand two
Speaker 1: to two thousand fifteen, where we used pressure towards the
Speaker 1: end of the game, or we just didn't have I
Speaker 1: never felt we had the type of team that we
Speaker 1: could pressure for forty minutes. But but again, but so
Speaker 1: the swing has some flex properties to it, right, but
Speaker 1: it's it's okay, yeah, Well, the thing about the scouting,
Speaker 1: that's where I saw these different actions. So what I
Speaker 1: did when we got the platfell, I started putting the
Speaker 1: actions together up screen the U c L A cut
Speaker 1: Michigan used a little bit too, Johnny or did back screens,
Speaker 1: you know, the Tom Davis teams with the back screens.
Speaker 1: UH flex cuts as it was called. Then flex cuts
Speaker 1: to to a coach Davis was more to the baseline.
Speaker 1: Our back screens are flex cut was more off of
Speaker 1: the free throw line extended. So we had up screens,
Speaker 1: we had back screens, and we always had pressure releases
Speaker 1: because my area on offenses, there's one ball, there's four
Speaker 1: guys away from the ball. So those four guys are
Speaker 1: two tandems of two. Well that's what the tandement. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you got you got a teammate who you can play
Speaker 1: off of. And just like the old guys at the
Speaker 1: Y m c A. That would beat us because they
Speaker 1: knew how to cut and read, pick and roll, picking
Speaker 1: pop and then the old guys would run the court
Speaker 1: at the Y and we'd say, how the heck did
Speaker 1: those guys beat us? Well, what they did was they
Speaker 1: were willing to work with a teammate and get them open.
Speaker 1: It wasn't all one or one stuff. Um you know
Speaker 1: the trew who's who's the biggest and baddest. So I
Speaker 1: call them actions. So we also had fade screens. Fade
Speaker 1: screens were starting to be something that people were using
Speaker 1: where we had them right in the swing. And then finally,
Speaker 1: the last screen is a ball screen because obviously in
Speaker 1: college you got shot clock, and you need to make
Speaker 1: a play often um picking poper picking role action. So
Speaker 1: with those actions in mind, like my dad's football teams
Speaker 1: run these three plays better right, block, better, read better
Speaker 1: and in basketball same thing, screen better, don't set in
Speaker 1: illegal screens, and you can get people open. So that's
Speaker 1: what the swing was. And then I gave it the
Speaker 1: name because I got up into the second floor where
Speaker 1: there was a window that looked down in the gym,
Speaker 1: and I had our guys. I had one of my assistants,
Speaker 1: had them run through the offense dummy run without any defense,
Speaker 1: and as I watched it, I said, just looks like
Speaker 1: a swing going back and forth. So that's why I
Speaker 1: call it the swing. I didn't have the swing in
Speaker 1: my mind until I saw these guys running it from
Speaker 1: up the ball. And then did you immediately start You
Speaker 1: mentioned about having a having a system, and then you know,
Speaker 1: one of the things that again I think gets lost
Speaker 1: on your success is now only did you guys develop
Speaker 1: people within the system, right, like, look, you know what
Speaker 1: it's gonna take to play. You're gonna have to do
Speaker 1: these things. This is how we play. But also you
Speaker 1: recruited to the system. Was Are you able to do
Speaker 1: that at a platfill where you don't offer scholarships or
Speaker 1: do you just you try and go out and get
Speaker 1: the best kids in Wisconsin that people missed on or
Speaker 1: whatever and getting like, how do you when did you
Speaker 1: start maybe recruiting to the system. Well that's a great question,
Speaker 1: but it's really easily answered at because most of them
Speaker 1: were engineers. It was an engineering school, So I'm not
Speaker 1: saying all of them were obviously, but um, it was.
Speaker 1: It was guys. When it came to recruiting any kid
Speaker 1: who was a good basketball player who wanted to be
Speaker 1: an engineer, we always got it. Um once we started,
Speaker 1: you know, once we kicked into gear. Uh, but we're
Speaker 1: in the southwest corner of Wisconsin. Everybody told me I
Speaker 1: was crazy taking the job there, Um that you know,
Speaker 1: Claire has this, Uh, Stevens Point has this. Uh, Whitewater
Speaker 1: has this. And people gave me all these reasons not
Speaker 1: to take the job. And the morn they gave me reasons,
Speaker 1: the more I wanted to take the job. And I'm
Speaker 1: glad I did. And it was with the swing, it's
Speaker 1: an equal opportunity offense. Yet the better players are going
Speaker 1: to get the shots. I mean, you know, you prove
Speaker 1: you can score, you prove you can play. Um, you
Speaker 1: know we'll we'll get you looks. So it became you know,
Speaker 1: it eliminates clicks, It eliminates you know, you just a
Speaker 1: comment that was made by another coach after I had
Speaker 1: left plat Bill was coach you would you would sub
Speaker 1: and it never seemed like the guys changed. And then
Speaker 1: the next year you would lose four or five six
Speaker 1: seniors and your team looked exactly the same. It was
Speaker 1: like they accused me of having clothes. Yes, um, but
Speaker 1: it was just because it was the way we played. Sure, Sure,
Speaker 1: and and you can make the same you can make
Speaker 1: the same accusation. Obviously there were some groups that were
Speaker 1: different Wisconsin, and you can make the same accuation. Accusation.
Speaker 1: Wisconsin was like when you bringing in you bring in
Speaker 1: another tall dude, they can step out and shoot you like, wait,
Speaker 1: what what where do they where do they all? Where
Speaker 1: do they all? They all have h you know, clean
Speaker 1: cut haircut, and they all look, you know, like Jimmy
Speaker 1: Chip would, and they can all shoot like Jimmy Chit would,
Speaker 1: And then they beat the crap at you on the
Speaker 1: defensive end um and do so with their bodies, not
Speaker 1: with their hands. Okay, so, uh did you was there
Speaker 1: any point where you thought, you know what I just
Speaker 1: I mean like, look, you had a couple of defeated teams,
Speaker 1: you won all these national championships. You're you're dominating. You
Speaker 1: can have become synonymous with Division three basketball. You are
Speaker 1: the guy was ever thought of, I'll just stay here
Speaker 1: and be the king of Division three basketball, um and
Speaker 1: and not go back to Division one. Uh not really.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what happened with you w M, because well,
Speaker 1: Drake could talk to me, Northern, I was some other
Speaker 1: teams and a matter of fact, there was some schools
Speaker 1: that talked to me that later on when they saw
Speaker 1: me in the final four or something. The a D.
Speaker 1: They should YEA though, we're sorry, we missed, we missed
Speaker 1: not offering you today. Yes, you know you took. You
Speaker 1: got the guy that you wanted. That's what you gotta do.
Speaker 1: And what you w M made a decision is they
Speaker 1: they wanted me, and it's nice to be wanted. Um.
Speaker 1: So the chancellor in the a D and the chance
Speaker 1: that really it was Nancy Zimper who ended up being
Speaker 1: uh the president at Cincinnati, uh, when Huggy was there.
Speaker 1: But anyhow, she she kind of made it like, we
Speaker 1: we need something here in Milwaukee. And I looked at
Speaker 1: the city and I'm thinking, I've been in the state
Speaker 1: of Wisconsin. I got twenty twenty some years in four
Speaker 1: years in widely the state. State has one of the
Speaker 1: best pension systems in the war in the country. Um So,
Speaker 1: let me give you w M a try. Let me
Speaker 1: let me give Division one. And I used to joke
Speaker 1: that we won in double overtime in our last national
Speaker 1: championship team my last year, and I said I needed
Speaker 1: to go to Vision one because in Division three they
Speaker 1: were catching up one. You built a monster. Now everybody
Speaker 1: was coming out, You're a wise guy. I'm know. We
Speaker 1: were joking about it one time and so yeah, so
Speaker 1: and you TREVM was a project they needed some work.
Speaker 1: Um So, anyhow, but we had the same situation we
Speaker 1: went to platte Ville, when I went to Sun Valley
Speaker 1: High School, book Aiden, UH, at Wisconsin, we went into
Speaker 1: a situation where it wasn't anywhere near like the other
Speaker 1: ones as far as where they were. Um So, what
Speaker 1: happens is, uh, I wanted to take the challenge. It
Speaker 1: was just this seemed like the right time, and I
Speaker 1: was still in the state of Wisconsin. Uh and so
Speaker 1: we Uh. Plus, I like the couch that your dad
Speaker 1: left there. He had this big orange couch when he
Speaker 1: coached at WM and it was still there. I have
Speaker 1: no doubt that it was still there. His his thing
Speaker 1: was they were Division one. They were Division one, and
Speaker 1: he started this panther backer program. And again this is
Speaker 1: all you know, second third hand information from my dad
Speaker 1: or my memory or other people have told me. And
Speaker 1: they started a really good booster program. They had you know,
Speaker 1: the on campus arena which they the Clatchy Center, which
Speaker 1: had just opened. Um. And remember this is coinciding with
Speaker 1: Marquette winning a national championship, right, So in addition to
Speaker 1: being kind of a startup Division one, you're in the
Speaker 1: shadow of Al McGuire winning a national championship. Not nonetheless, Um,
Speaker 1: you know when title nine was passed, you know, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, every penny he raised was going to
Speaker 1: go to the women's side. He was gonna have to
Speaker 1: take a pay cut to go and then go Division three.
Speaker 1: And you know, like they independent trying to find games,
Speaker 1: like there was a lot to it. Obviously, it was
Speaker 1: a tough, tough job, and I have no doubt that
Speaker 1: the couch was. I wish you would have left some
Speaker 1: of his sports coats behind as well. He chose he
Speaker 1: chose nach Um okay, So so you're there. You're there
Speaker 1: two years the hum in that era, Yes, um, uh,
Speaker 1: you're there two years now. I was told Northwestern offered
Speaker 1: you the job at the same time Wisconsin offered you
Speaker 1: the job. Can you confirm or deny? I'll be real No,
Speaker 1: I'll give you the real lowdown on that. That's not
Speaker 1: how it happened. Um. The a D there at the time.
Speaker 1: It was a good, good man. Uh. He A couple
Speaker 1: of players from Northwestern had gone to him and said, hey,
Speaker 1: did you ever look at the sky? The said Platville
Speaker 1: uh or a youm now, but you know what he
Speaker 1: did at patl Well, they were couple of guys from
Speaker 1: the state of Wisconsin, and so the a D did
Speaker 1: some checking and I'm playing golf uh in the Milwaukee
Speaker 1: area and a guy comes out in the cart and
Speaker 1: he says, um, I just wanted to tell you there's
Speaker 1: I didn't know if he wanted to make the call
Speaker 1: right away or but the the a d from Northwestern
Speaker 1: that called and left his name a number. Uh, And
Speaker 1: I said, okay, well I'm done playing. I'll give him
Speaker 1: a call. So here here's what happened. He was going
Speaker 1: to bring me in with the idea that it seemed
Speaker 1: the way he was talking that I would have been
Speaker 1: offered the job. But he said he had a big
Speaker 1: time coach coming in. Yeah, and that if he didn't
Speaker 1: take the job, that he was going to bring me
Speaker 1: in and sit down and we'll have a talk. I said, client, great,
Speaker 1: thank you for being honest with me. So Bill Carmody
Speaker 1: flew in. Bill Carmody took the job. Okay, how long
Speaker 1: after that did you get the How long after that
Speaker 1: do you get the Wisconsin job? One more year? I
Speaker 1: think he was there. Um, yeah he was. He was
Speaker 1: there at two thousand. Yeah it was it was one
Speaker 1: more year. Yeah, he had already coached the year. Because
Speaker 1: then I got to be the lowest paid head coach
Speaker 1: in the Big Ten first, so Bill Bill Carmody, Bill
Speaker 1: Carmody was making more than me. So so and that
Speaker 1: that doesn't he I mean, build a great guy and
Speaker 1: a great coach. I really really loved his offensive schemes,
Speaker 1: prinstance stuff. Um, okay, so what was it like to
Speaker 1: get the Wisconsin job? Like this is you know, obviously
Speaker 1: your Chester guy, but as you said, like most of
Speaker 1: your professional life, you know, you met your wife and Wisconsin. Um,
Speaker 1: you've won national championships in Platteville. Everyone in the state
Speaker 1: knows you, knows your family, families coaching in the state
Speaker 1: as well. Um, and you had been at Wisconsin before
Speaker 1: when when Brad isn't retained Brad Soderbergh isn't retained a
Speaker 1: long time, Dick ben an assistant and Dick had retired. Um,
Speaker 1: what was like during the season did you know you
Speaker 1: were going to get? Like what? I I don't I
Speaker 1: had just got finished playing and I was going I
Speaker 1: was overseas, So I don't remember how you got How
Speaker 1: did it come about that you got the job? Well,
Speaker 1: we had almost eaten Wisconsin at Wisconsin my second year.
Speaker 1: We had them down at halftime at our place my
Speaker 1: first year, and then I don't know what Dick did
Speaker 1: in the locker room with those guys, but man, he
Speaker 1: must have. He must have gotten into him pretty good,
Speaker 1: because they came out in the second half and just
Speaker 1: put it to us. And then the next year we
Speaker 1: had to go to Wisconsin and uh we had a
Speaker 1: chaff like thirty seconds ago for a guy missed a
Speaker 1: tip in so we don't tie the game, then we
Speaker 1: have to foul them. So it was a close game.
Speaker 1: But Pat Richter is a guy who was very familiar
Speaker 1: with um my background, and because he had talked to
Speaker 1: me before about the Wisconsin job, then they hired Stu Jackson.
Speaker 1: I had, I had interviewed, re admitted a place, uh,
Speaker 1: and so Stue was hired. Great, you know, let's uh.
Speaker 1: And I continued to coach at Prattville, and then of
Speaker 1: course stck uh took the job. And you know, I
Speaker 1: never I never worried about where I Wasn't. I always
Speaker 1: concerned myself with taking care of now. Um So, people say, oh, Po,
Speaker 1: this must have been your dream job here, and I said, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, who wouldn't I want to be a head
Speaker 1: coach and the big kid. Uh. And of course it's
Speaker 1: a job that I would want if it was ever offered.
Speaker 1: So when Pat Richter called and we met, it was
Speaker 1: done very fairly quickly. Um so, and they had lost
Speaker 1: all the guys from the year before that had one
Speaker 1: more year with Kelly and Burshall and Kalski Boom that
Speaker 1: whole team. UM was back and they lost in the
Speaker 1: first round and Pat Richter decided he was going to
Speaker 1: make a change. So was I excited? Yes? I was.
Speaker 1: The tough part was telling the Milwaukee guys who you
Speaker 1: could see we returned in the corner. We were guys
Speaker 1: were developing nicely and they ended up being pretty doll
Speaker 1: going good uh for Bruce and h Bruce Pearl. Ye,
Speaker 1: so you know everything wents out. What did you think
Speaker 1: about me for the best and that's so that's uh.
Speaker 1: We had I mean from the year before there was
Speaker 1: kirkpennyback who had played Charlie h Charlie Rolls um, not
Speaker 1: very many other h Devin Devin Harris? Did did you
Speaker 1: signed Devin Harris? Devin Harris? Huh you signed Devin Harris? Correct? Yes?
Speaker 1: And Devin wasn't sure Um when the coaching change was made.
Speaker 1: You know, he didn't know me, even though I was
Speaker 1: coaching to u W and he knew about me, and
Speaker 1: I knew his coach and you know, new people around him.
Speaker 1: And so we sat in the office, him and his
Speaker 1: folks uh for quite a while and Uh, he decided
Speaker 1: he's gonna stay with his commitment the Wisconsin. So it
Speaker 1: was like a re recruiting process. You know what. What's
Speaker 1: what's fascinating about about that musical Chairs game, right, is
Speaker 1: you have like you hand off to Bruce. Now, look,
Speaker 1: Bruce style is different than yours. It's more frenetic. But
Speaker 1: they would do the show and go press, right, which
Speaker 1: is Dr Tom Davis a little bit like some of
Speaker 1: the stuff that you had done the Davis graduator from
Speaker 1: plaque Villeure. So so they had they also you know,
Speaker 1: they ran they call it cutters, which is that Dr
Speaker 1: Tom Davis kind of version of with with the flex right.
Speaker 1: So there's some there's there's it's not the same, but
Speaker 1: there's some sort of what now you go take Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: And granted they did block remover, which again is a
Speaker 1: different offense. On the other hand, as you talked about,
Speaker 1: it's still two guys on the side running actions with
Speaker 1: each other. So the evolution and they taught guys how
Speaker 1: to play basketball within their their structure, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of what you've always done, which is like, look, we
Speaker 1: give you structure, but then you play basketball. You know
Speaker 1: how to play basketball within the structure, and it gives you,
Speaker 1: in what people would think is not a lot of freedom,
Speaker 1: it actually gives you a ton of freedom if you
Speaker 1: know what you're doing and where you're supposed to be. Right.
Speaker 1: So there, it wasn't It wasn't like you're going from
Speaker 1: Nolan Richardson to to to Dick Bennett, right, which is
Speaker 1: complete opposite sides of the spectrum. You're going from Dick
Speaker 1: Bennett who had turned the corner, been to a final four,
Speaker 1: been successful, and and now you kind of give them
Speaker 1: how I guess the question becomes and you mentioned there's
Speaker 1: not a ton of carry over. Kirk Penny was really
Speaker 1: the only one. How hard was it to get people
Speaker 1: that you didn't recruit though they knew you and respected you.
Speaker 1: How hard was it to get guys to buy in? Well,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you. Our practices were down to the downs
Speaker 1: of the minute on okay um uh, double staggered screens
Speaker 1: today on defense, this is what we're gonna do. You're
Speaker 1: to drill dribble penetration on offense post moves. I always
Speaker 1: used the the sigma, the Kevin McHale, the Moses Baron,
Speaker 1: the Bard King and Kevin McHale I guess I don't
Speaker 1: know if I missed anybody in there, but anyhow that
Speaker 1: reversed in it, and so every guard because I would
Speaker 1: post up guards because I didn't think guards played very
Speaker 1: good defense the post because they weren't used to it. Um.
Speaker 1: So I just stuck with the basics, and we've started
Speaker 1: out like what one in five and of course everybody's
Speaker 1: going as I remember is telling Kelly one day when
Speaker 1: I came home from a practice back my first year
Speaker 1: and Temple had just beaten us and overturn because career
Speaker 1: from third it shots. It was ridiculous, but they so
Speaker 1: they beat us and it and I said, Jim, look,
Speaker 1: you gotta understand, we got it made. I signed a
Speaker 1: five year contract three hundred thousand dollars a year. That's
Speaker 1: one point five million. We're okay, That's what I said, Hey,
Speaker 1: if they want to get rid of me that first year,
Speaker 1: that that first month, and then we started turning the
Speaker 1: quarter um and we end up tied to the Big
Speaker 1: Ten championship. It was Colonel like the team this year
Speaker 1: you were for for people who people remember job what
Speaker 1: the players do right where people don't remember together. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you started your your your coaching career at Wisconsin. Start
Speaker 1: off two and five, right you go? You went out
Speaker 1: to Hawaii, right, you beat Halo, and then you lose
Speaker 1: the Weber, You lose the u A, you lose the Y.
Speaker 1: You come back. You played Georgia Tech. Terrible scheduling, by
Speaker 1: the way, play in Georgia Tech. Like three days later,
Speaker 1: off off off the plane. Um, you beat Green Bay.
Speaker 1: You're losing double overtime to Temple, and it's what is
Speaker 1: this guy doing? He took over Wisconsin and now of
Speaker 1: a sudden they can't. They're they're scoring in the seventies
Speaker 1: and and and then you you lost a Xavier two.
Speaker 1: I think you you know, after you won a game
Speaker 1: and he scored forty eight against Avier. But then then
Speaker 1: you guys turned the corner. Right, you beat Marquette. You
Speaker 1: had to go beat Milwaukee. What what's that like? By
Speaker 1: the way, to coach against Milwaukee your first year, all
Speaker 1: those guys you had recruited hard. That was the hardest
Speaker 1: game that I can remember. Um, because a lot of
Speaker 1: those guys tried to meet with me when I was leaving, saying, coach,
Speaker 1: take us and take me with you with uh And
Speaker 1: I did not take one player. Uh, the only guy
Speaker 1: that came with me was an incoming freshman who got
Speaker 1: a release from Bruce because he was a slow guard
Speaker 1: but could score. Tyton answer, So fast forward to two
Speaker 1: thousand five. I'll bet nobody but people could name the
Speaker 1: starting guards for our Elite eight team in two thousand
Speaker 1: five that got beat by Carolina by five or six.
Speaker 1: It was Clayton Nansen and Shariff Shambles. And so Clayton
Speaker 1: is the only guy that came from Milwaukee with me. Uh.
Speaker 1: Soon trying to trying to get those guys ready for
Speaker 1: a game against the school where you just coached, And
Speaker 1: as my old coach would say, we crushed him. We
Speaker 1: won by two. And anytime it was a close game,
Speaker 1: coach training would always say, all right, we crushed him. Um,
Speaker 1: not scratched my head and go, I don't think we
Speaker 1: did anyhow, That's what happened. We gotta steal, Devin, gotta
Speaker 1: steal at the end of the game for a layup
Speaker 1: they had the last shot missed. Uh, And I was
Speaker 1: never happier for a game to be over than that one. Um.
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like Alando Tucker is the
Speaker 1: first guy at Wisconsin that you recruited that perfectly fit
Speaker 1: how you wanted a guard to play, and he grew
Speaker 1: within the system and it they just helped me. All right,
Speaker 1: great observation because I've said it. Um you know, from
Speaker 1: a personal standpoint, in the swing, he can slash. He
Speaker 1: wasn't a great three point shooter, but he didn't have
Speaker 1: to be. He was a good three point shooting, but
Speaker 1: he could take you off the bounce an inside in
Speaker 1: the post for his wiry is you know, he wasn't
Speaker 1: a big muscle bound guy, but he was really strong
Speaker 1: for his weight. Um so him coming off of some
Speaker 1: of those back screens. And he was one of the
Speaker 1: best swing players I've ever coached, if not the best,
Speaker 1: because of all the things that he could do. But
Speaker 1: that's a that's a good observation on your part from
Speaker 1: the standpoint of versatility is a pretty good thing, I know.
Speaker 1: And you're right, You're totally right. Like I I never
Speaker 1: played post defense, hated it, didn't like it in practice.
Speaker 1: And then when you get to professional basketball, they're like,
Speaker 1: if you get posted up, just foul, you get six
Speaker 1: and foul, you know, and they'll stop. And he was
Speaker 1: a guy who if you put a garden him. He
Speaker 1: post him up and put a big on him. He
Speaker 1: takes him outside. And if you play off of me,
Speaker 1: make a shot, big plays up on him and go
Speaker 1: buy him. And within your offense he becomes impossible to guard. Right,
Speaker 1: So you pay so much attention to him in the
Speaker 1: post espense to the help. And now you got your
Speaker 1: big guys out there making, you know, knocking down jump
Speaker 1: shots and you throw your hands up. You don't you
Speaker 1: don't know how to how to how to guard, and
Speaker 1: they can't turn you over, they can't speed you up,
Speaker 1: um and it it feels kind of like an avalanche.
Speaker 1: And then how did you get your teams to not foul?
Speaker 1: What is the what is the secret to playing It's
Speaker 1: one thing to enough out, it's nothing to play good defense.
Speaker 1: Your teams did both, how doug First of all, how
Speaker 1: many fouls are committed with hands? Two minutes? Right? All right?
Speaker 1: So we're not going to foul with our hands. We're
Speaker 1: gonna have our hands out every once in a while.
Speaker 1: I did the thing with tennis balls in the hand, uh,
Speaker 1: with the idea that it's with the feet. Yeah. First,
Speaker 1: because the feat has to get there in order for
Speaker 1: the body to be a wall, and we've always talked
Speaker 1: about rolling up and but you have to get there
Speaker 1: first with your feet. So are conditioning um was extremely
Speaker 1: important Scott Hattenbach and then Eric Helen who we had
Speaker 1: the last five years, and so conditioning with trying to
Speaker 1: get guys a little quicker laterally, and so a lot
Speaker 1: of the drills that we did, especially in the preseason,
Speaker 1: uh involved getting better laterally. Get there with your feet,
Speaker 1: get your arms out and make yourself big. And your
Speaker 1: chest is there. But you know, people say, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Wisconsin watching, they always put their chests on you, and
Speaker 1: it well, if my chest is there and you come
Speaker 1: into my chest, I didn't put my chest on it.
Speaker 1: But the idea was to try to make no easy threat,
Speaker 1: noe threes, run people off the line. And of course
Speaker 1: everybody talks about it now, but I was talking about
Speaker 1: it forty years ago in junior high. They didn't have
Speaker 1: a three point line, but no no easy outside shots,
Speaker 1: tough twos still a tough two and don't put them
Speaker 1: to the line. Uh you know, I mean you've got
Speaker 1: a foul at times and you can't give up. It's
Speaker 1: not like we say, oh we're a soft team. We're
Speaker 1: not going to fail you. But the key, Doug, I've
Speaker 1: always felt his feet first, the body comes and then
Speaker 1: maybe the hands on the extension. But show the palms
Speaker 1: fingers out. Uh, don't give the officials a reason to
Speaker 1: make a call. The other thing is try to find
Speaker 1: out now that you're probably banished to home for a
Speaker 1: while it's takes, and try to find out how many
Speaker 1: fouls we ever committed. Reaching down? Don't reach down, reach
Speaker 1: out your your first great team at Wisconsin. Great team
Speaker 1: was the O eight team. Oh seven, O eight um
Speaker 1: in great in terms of won the Big Ten. You
Speaker 1: get one on some run where you win like twelve
Speaker 1: games in a row, wint one games in the I
Speaker 1: think sweet sixteen. You're running to Davidson and Steph Curry.
Speaker 1: Steph hits you for six threes thirty three points, right
Speaker 1: like everybody remembers Kansas, but people forget like you were
Speaker 1: on a collision course with Kansas. They were the best
Speaker 1: team in the Big twelve. You're the best team in
Speaker 1: the Big Ten. You're getting ready to play Kansas and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, you see you see Davidson.
Speaker 1: What do you remember about the Steph Curry tornado that
Speaker 1: that tore India. Well, first, I want to respond to
Speaker 1: the O five season when we're in Oklahoma City and
Speaker 1: I think it was over five Kansas and we were
Speaker 1: on the same path, you know, we we played in
Speaker 1: Northern Iowa, they played buck Mill and Kansas and the
Speaker 1: Sky Anson was going to be in the next game,
Speaker 1: supposedly remember that, And so then here we are in
Speaker 1: OH eight, same thing. Yes, he had just he Davidson
Speaker 1: us killer did an unbelievable job with that team, and
Speaker 1: Ganzaga and Georgetown before they faced us. I mean, if
Speaker 1: people think what was Wisconsin doing, didn't they did they
Speaker 1: underestimate Davidson? No, No, I can remember looking at film,
Speaker 1: putting together the scouting report for Davidson and going wow.
Speaker 1: And then and people excuses are for you know, the week,
Speaker 1: but we lost Trebonn Hues for the second half and
Speaker 1: it was a one point game at halftime and Tremon
Speaker 1: uses our cricket card. Um. I thought that turnis And
Speaker 1: in the year before, we're on a collision course with
Speaker 1: Ohio State for the Big Ten Championship. They go on
Speaker 1: to play for the National Championship in the finals and
Speaker 1: we lose Brian butch Um for ex ended regular season,
Speaker 1: So I thought OVER seven might have been a little
Speaker 1: bit better than the O eight team if Brian would
Speaker 1: have state health. He didn't dislocate his elbow, but yes,
Speaker 1: what did Seth carry do knock down big shots? But
Speaker 1: his teammates had some shots to today. They were a
Speaker 1: well rounded team. That was a good squad. When you
Speaker 1: you what, what when you finally got to a final four?
Speaker 1: What is that feeling like for a guy who's won
Speaker 1: national championships, you know, like, look, you won turn around programs, whatever.
Speaker 1: But to get Wisconsin, who had been there obviously two
Speaker 1: thousand my seniorman, But to get for your system, to
Speaker 1: do it your way with your guys to get there,
Speaker 1: what do that mean? Well, what it meant was, I
Speaker 1: know there's going to be an awful lot of happy
Speaker 1: students on campus and alumni. And you know for these players,
Speaker 1: their parents, their family and their loved ones, um, their hometowns,
Speaker 1: they get to represent it a school like Wisconsin in
Speaker 1: the final four, it's you know, one of the biggest
Speaker 1: sports spectacles ever. Um So for me, when when you
Speaker 1: say what what it meant was we had a chance
Speaker 1: to carry our brand for another forty minutes Hey, we
Speaker 1: get another game, and uh, we get to represent the
Speaker 1: school and so in all the things that come with it,
Speaker 1: and as you know, Doug being in the media, the interviews,
Speaker 1: the men, things that experience at the Final Four. When
Speaker 1: I talked to coaches that had been the coach in
Speaker 1: Final fourty years before, and I tell them about all
Speaker 1: the different interviews and different meetings and different functions and
Speaker 1: different wow, they said, we didn't have one tenth of
Speaker 1: that in something at the Final Four. So but knowing um,
Speaker 1: you asked what did that mean? What it meant was
Speaker 1: that Wisconsin gets a chance to be out there in
Speaker 1: the forefront for another another forty minutes on the court,
Speaker 1: when we get to play another game for everybody involved,
Speaker 1: And I was just happy for all the people who
Speaker 1: were believers the first the Kentucky game the first year,
Speaker 1: it's a you know, it's a one point loss. Is
Speaker 1: there is there if you could pinpoint one thing you
Speaker 1: personally would do differently. You can't make them make shots
Speaker 1: right like, you just can't. But was it is there
Speaker 1: one thing you would do differently? No? Because and the
Speaker 1: reason I'm saying no is because you look at film
Speaker 1: um and going into the next year. What we brought
Speaker 1: back was experienced. Um, you know, Frank didn't go pro,
Speaker 1: and Frank would have been drafted in the first round
Speaker 1: in two thousand fifteen, but not where he ended up
Speaker 1: being drafted in two thousand fifteen. Uh. And Josh Casser
Speaker 1: had red shirt year because he tore his A c
Speaker 1: L and I had watched him go through excruciating rehab.
Speaker 1: So you got those two guys an extra year. Um,
Speaker 1: and I just felt with their experience and Trey Jackson's
Speaker 1: and Nigel getting another year under his belt and Bronson
Speaker 1: Kiney and do you And you know I didn't like
Speaker 1: look at that loss and say, well, should I play
Speaker 1: this guy more? That guy more love? No, people, people
Speaker 1: were in position to make that a w that shot
Speaker 1: the Trayvon Jackson took at the end he hit three
Speaker 1: times in the past two years as game winners down
Speaker 1: the left hand side, Penn State, Michigan State, and somebody else.
Speaker 1: So no, I I don't And plus I don't like
Speaker 1: to look at something and say there's only one reason,
Speaker 1: so let's just look at it collectively. Everybody just needs
Speaker 1: to play a little better. We hopefully we get in
Speaker 1: that position again, which which you did, and and the
Speaker 1: next year you win Atlantis, you win the Big Ten.
Speaker 1: And for people forgot, like you know, you won seven
Speaker 1: or row that year, than eight in a row, than
Speaker 1: ten orrow, than a eleven row. You won the Big Ten,
Speaker 1: you win the Big Ten tournament, you win Atlanta's like essentially,
Speaker 1: everything that you guys could win you won, which not
Speaker 1: only embodies your personal competitiveness, but the competitiveness of a team. Right,
Speaker 1: this that that was a special special group. You beat
Speaker 1: Kentucky's asked, now you got? Now? You got Duke? Okay,
Speaker 1: And the the famous part about Duke was the Szewski
Speaker 1: interview at halftime, right because coach K thought he was
Speaker 1: getting a bad end of the whistle, which is kind
Speaker 1: of classic because that's what people would always think. Did
Speaker 1: you get the great end of the wood? You had
Speaker 1: your own basketball you used at the sterling ball at
Speaker 1: the Coal Center, right, And guys complain about that. And
Speaker 1: your teams are physical, but they don't use their hands,
Speaker 1: so you're gonna get called. Everybody complains about the way
Speaker 1: you guys play defense. Did you know at halftime about
Speaker 1: coach K complaining about the officials? No? No, I did not,
Speaker 1: But let me go back to this. Let me go
Speaker 1: back to the ball there for a second. Okay, what team,
Speaker 1: what team had the only winning record on the road
Speaker 1: in the Big Ten during the years I was at Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing it's you. I'm only saying that is that
Speaker 1: we had to use the other guy's basketball. It wasn't
Speaker 1: the basketball the Big Ten tournaments. Uhzo made a comment
Speaker 1: about the basketball being a rock and all that. In
Speaker 1: the Big Ten Tournament we played six times. That's a
Speaker 1: that's another ball, that's a neutral ball. We were four
Speaker 1: and team in the Big Ten tournament. And and Tom
Speaker 1: was a great guy. I'm just saying he I think
Speaker 1: it was more like but there was a school that
Speaker 1: did have the rock, and it was a rock. So anyhow,
Speaker 1: we um, you know, I had no idea what was
Speaker 1: going on to hit him, but uh we just we
Speaker 1: just needed to hit some shots in the second half
Speaker 1: and we needed to, you know, try to get a
Speaker 1: couple of couple of charges or what we thought we
Speaker 1: had position on and and just a couple of them
Speaker 1: didn't go away. Um, if if, if you could do
Speaker 1: it again, would you change your ball screen coverage? That
Speaker 1: was the only thing that I know you just need
Speaker 1: to make some shots. But it felt like the way
Speaker 1: to beat you guys was you were like flat hedging
Speaker 1: kind of uh, I don't, I don't know what you
Speaker 1: call it, or like sinking on ball screen. That's how
Speaker 1: you play ball screens the whole year. You know, with
Speaker 1: with with Frank and and and Tias Jones, you know,
Speaker 1: hit a bunch of shots. If you could do it again,
Speaker 1: would you change. Well, you have to take a look
Speaker 1: at the shots that he hit. First of all, we're
Speaker 1: trying to run him off three point line. And so
Speaker 1: what we do is we try to get a guy
Speaker 1: who wants the rim hunt and maybe get one or
Speaker 1: two on them charges and then the guy's not coming
Speaker 1: his herd like we did the Trey Burke um. And
Speaker 1: you know, Trey was as good off that high ball
Speaker 1: screen as anybody, and were facing teams that really had
Speaker 1: good high ball screen action. So what we did was
Speaker 1: we called it did as fly trap. We try to
Speaker 1: sucker a guy in for a pull up two pointers
Speaker 1: and you know they're in a tough two pointer. We
Speaker 1: we got somebody there were chasing the guy over the
Speaker 1: top of the screen. Um. Usually you know when you're
Speaker 1: doing basketball cats back in the day, you're teaching getting
Speaker 1: skinny and get over the screen. Well, the way people
Speaker 1: were setting screens and the way of officials were calling
Speaker 1: the contact, we just got what was called chase mood.
Speaker 1: So we're going to chase you over the top if
Speaker 1: you want to go to the rim. We got backside
Speaker 1: help coming over on the big if he's running into
Speaker 1: the rim, and we're also ready for the big who pops,
Speaker 1: because then we simply would end up with us with
Speaker 1: a switch. And so we got the big who took
Speaker 1: on the guy coming with the ball off the screen,
Speaker 1: and then are smaller ends up with the big. So
Speaker 1: now think about this, Doug, where are we in the
Speaker 1: shot clock? Are they then going to run in action
Speaker 1: where they're going to get the big down into the
Speaker 1: post and try to take advantage of a mismatch. That's right,
Speaker 1: that's where they played the number. All right, last thing,
Speaker 1: last thing is this, you're Hall of Famer and I
Speaker 1: could run through the list of all the Hall of
Speaker 1: fames you're in and why the respect is one of
Speaker 1: the great coach in the history of college basketball? Does it? Though?
Speaker 1: You mean you're so close twice and and close with
Speaker 1: another elite eight team, and you know the Sweet six
Speaker 1: team team and lost to Davidson, you know the team
Speaker 1: the year before that, Like any of these teams could
Speaker 1: very well have won a national championship. Um, now, a
Speaker 1: couple of years removed from retiring, you're watching great guard.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like because you didn't win a national
Speaker 1: championship that there is something missed in your career? No, Doug,
Speaker 1: I can honestly say that is not the case. Um,
Speaker 1: because if you get one, why not too, that's a
Speaker 1: great one. I Mean, who's ever really satisfied when when
Speaker 1: you've coached for forty some years it isn't Our satisfaction
Speaker 1: can't come from only winning a national championship. I mean,
Speaker 1: what kind of a shower of life would a person
Speaker 1: be living if if that is the only thing that
Speaker 1: bothers him? Or you know that you are remissed about
Speaker 1: or uh have a hard time deal with. No, No,
Speaker 1: there's just it's too much fun when I hear from
Speaker 1: some of the former players that I've coached, or find
Speaker 1: out about the job they take in, or find out
Speaker 1: about how many kids they have now. Um, you know, Doug,
Speaker 1: in coaching, there's just so much more that comes out
Speaker 1: of it other than how many banners were hung up. Okay,
Speaker 1: so okay, so let me ask this. Give me one guy,
Speaker 1: one guy who you take the most pride in his
Speaker 1: life changing that you were a part of at Wisconsin. Well,
Speaker 1: how can you have a guy come in and for
Speaker 1: two years I reached about two points a game and
Speaker 1: turn into the national player of the year. Um. From
Speaker 1: the standpoint of the development of an individual, nobody comes
Speaker 1: close the Frank Comiston. Uh. He just what he ended
Speaker 1: up doing and what he ended up meaning to the university.
Speaker 1: There's a story in itself. Um. But there's some other guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, we Josh Gossar, Michael Flowers, you know, two
Speaker 1: guys from the state of Wisconsin who really weren't recruited
Speaker 1: by a lot of other people period. Mum, like we
Speaker 1: were by far the best offer. Uh. And and how
Speaker 1: the two of them turned out. Uh. The development of Orlando,
Speaker 1: how his eyes, ears and mind were always open with Tucker. Um,
Speaker 1: the course Devon arras he I'll never forget after the
Speaker 1: first day of practice, Devon says, coach going to ask
Speaker 1: you a question, That's sure, he says. So in all
Speaker 1: these journals and everything, you expect us to go a
Speaker 1: all the time, like like full more. I looked at
Speaker 1: Devin and I said, yes, of course from that day on,
Speaker 1: every day in practice, every drool emory. I mean, he
Speaker 1: had some talent, but he developed that talent because of
Speaker 1: his workout it um. So I know you asked her
Speaker 1: one day if you if you keep me on here,
Speaker 1: I might give you another fifty. But you know there
Speaker 1: there are some great stories there were really are that
Speaker 1: I'm you know, as I'm getting older and get a
Speaker 1: chance to reflect upon um. That makes you feel really
Speaker 1: warm and both. Thanks so much for joining us. Okay, thanks,
Speaker 1: so be sure to catch the live edition of The
Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon Pacific.
Speaker 1: Pretty cool stuff, right yeah he He obviously did not
Speaker 1: like people questioning the sterling basketball because he's like, look,
Speaker 1: how many games are we want to throw? It's still
Speaker 1: the sterling basketball was a hard ball to adjust to. Nonetheless,
Speaker 1: his style worked continues to work for Wisconsin today and
Speaker 1: it is unique as is as is bo Bo Ryan,
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to listen to the Doug Gottlieb Show three
Speaker 1: six Eastern twelve three Pacific. You can download that podcast
Speaker 1: wherever you download podcast. You can stream us at Fox
Speaker 1: Sports Radio dot com. I'm Doug Gottlieban. This is All
Speaker 1: Ball