Speaker 1: I feel really lucky because I love what I do
Speaker 1: and I get to do what I love, and that's
Speaker 1: insane to me. That's the dream right there.
Speaker 2: Welcome to my podcast Today, I met Samsung eight three seven.
Speaker 2: Joining me is a very exciting guest, Shonda Rhymes. Shonda
Speaker 2: is one of the most accomplished and celebrated television writers
Speaker 2: and producers of our time. I'm sure you've seen many
Speaker 2: of her shows, How to Get Away with Murder, Scandal,
Speaker 2: Private Practice, Bridgerton, the spinoff Queen Charlotte, and of course
Speaker 2: Ray's Anatomy, one of the longest running primetime TV shows ever.
Speaker 2: Shanda has become a force in the entertainment business. Do
Speaker 2: you know? Shonda is the first woman to create three
Speaker 2: television dramas that have achieved the one hundred episode milestone.
Speaker 2: Can you name them? Shonda continues to grow her business
Speaker 2: in many directions while keeping a very, very interested audience
Speaker 2: and a very entertained audience. It's nice to see you again, Shonda.
Speaker 2: You look beautiful. Thank you.
Speaker 1: It was great to be here. You look amazing.
Speaker 2: Thank you. It's so fun to have you here because
Speaker 2: so much has happened. Shonda spent one night at my house.
Speaker 2: Was it one night or two nights? I think it
Speaker 2: was two nights nights at my little tenant house guest house,
Speaker 2: which was a little bit disheveled because my daughter had
Speaker 2: just torn it apart to refurnish it. But Shonda was writing,
Speaker 2: you were working on Bridgerton.
Speaker 1: I was, And.
Speaker 2: You were so busy. Your sister stayed with you, and
Speaker 2: you were editing, and I guess doing retakes and stuff.
Speaker 2: And I hardly saw you. And I really wanted to
Speaker 2: entertain you and everything, but you were so busy and
Speaker 2: the lights were on all night long. I did work
Speaker 2: all night. You did. She was looking for a house
Speaker 2: at the time. Also, in addition to finishing the first
Speaker 2: season of Bridgerton, Shonda was looking for a house nearby.
Speaker 2: I was so hoping. I had my fingers crossed, my
Speaker 2: legs crossed, waiting for her to buy a house near
Speaker 2: me in Bedford, but instead she chose my old town
Speaker 2: of Westport, Connecticut. I did, how do you like it there?
Speaker 1: I love it. It's wonderful for my family. It's also
Speaker 1: a really friendly town. It has good food, so I'm
Speaker 1: enjoying it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're right on the sea there, You're near
Speaker 2: the sea. It's not really the sea, it's the sound,
Speaker 2: Long Island Sound, but it is beautiful. Why did you
Speaker 2: want to live on the East Coast.
Speaker 1: I had never been in love with living on the
Speaker 1: West Coast. I'm a Midwesterner at heart, and I'd gone
Speaker 1: to college in New England, and I always thought I
Speaker 1: would end up in New England. And what was very
Speaker 1: interesting is is my career took me to Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: which I never would have guessed in a million years,
Speaker 1: I really wouldn't have. And so twenty years in, twenty
Speaker 1: five years in when the pandemic happened, I realized I
Speaker 1: can do all the same work I'm doing from anywhere.
Speaker 1: I don't actually have to be in LA to do
Speaker 1: the work. So it was kind of a perfect time
Speaker 1: with my kids. They were the right ages. My daughter
Speaker 1: was going to college, my younger ones were sort of
Speaker 1: going into early elementary school. And we picked up.
Speaker 2: And we moved and got a beautiful house. I haven't
Speaker 2: seen pictures of that one yet, but Jonda also did
Speaker 2: a fantastic apartment in New York City, a very very
Speaker 2: I think while while you were working on Bridgerton, you
Speaker 2: got very fancy, chaste.
Speaker 1: Well, you know what's funny is is I almost think
Speaker 1: that the taste of that got how it was decorated,
Speaker 1: influenced a lot of Bridgerton because we did first.
Speaker 2: Oh you did. Oh that's so great, and working with
Speaker 2: a close friend of ours, and I think one of
Speaker 2: the most celebrated interior designers, Michael Smith.
Speaker 1: Michael Smith so oh so did.
Speaker 2: He work on Bridgerton interiors too?
Speaker 1: He didn't. I just think that what he did in
Speaker 1: the apartment really sort of inspired the.
Speaker 2: George and Georgian furniture and gilded mirrors and and those interiors.
Speaker 2: Let's get to Bridgerton first of all, because that was
Speaker 2: the last thing I really watched. I didn't see Queen
Speaker 2: Charlotte yet. Oh I think I only saw I think
Speaker 2: I saw two episodes. So in Bridgerton, it's very beautifully shot.
Speaker 2: Where is that in a studio or is it in
Speaker 2: real houses?
Speaker 1: Oh? No, it's in real houses all over England. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of it that'shot in math. It's stunning, like
Speaker 1: the exteriors and the interiors that we get to film
Speaker 1: in our stunning. We have not really done a lot
Speaker 1: of stage work on that show. It's mostly just real
Speaker 1: amazing spaces and oh that's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of those houses for rent for six.
Speaker 1: Some of them are, and some of them we have
Speaker 1: to do some convincing, but some of them are.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's so it's so beautifully shot and so
Speaker 2: beautifully edited and so amazingly acted by a cast that
Speaker 2: does that shake up the English a little bit. Having
Speaker 2: an all black cast pretty much, it does shake it up.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not an all black cattle, but you know,
Speaker 1: Letty Dan, Barry, the Duke, the Queen, they're all people
Speaker 1: of color and not got a very interes reception.
Speaker 2: And well, because and I've been reading a lot about
Speaker 2: you in preparation, and so what you did with some
Speaker 2: of your shows, incorporating a lot of very fine talent,
Speaker 2: we wanted to see inclusion. We wanted to see a
Speaker 2: much more diverse America, and you brought it to TV
Speaker 2: in such a clever, beautiful way. I think you really
Speaker 2: influenced the rest of television because every single and because
Speaker 2: I think you've got advertiser dollars at the same time.
Speaker 1: I think we proved in a very interesting way, in
Speaker 1: a way that I have never even really planned. But
Speaker 1: we ended up proving this as an economic model. Shows
Speaker 1: with more diverse audiences, so it shows with more diverse
Speaker 1: cast have more diverse audiences, larger audiences, and also more
Speaker 1: of spending power in terms of the advertisement.
Speaker 2: Right to see Bridgerton with the Black Queen Gold What
Speaker 2: made you do that?
Speaker 1: There is a whole part of history where they there's
Speaker 1: been real speculation about whether or not Queen Charlotte was
Speaker 1: a woman of color or not. And I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't make shows that don't include somebody who looks
Speaker 1: like me. That's just not interesting to me. And I thought, well,
Speaker 1: let's go with the premise that Queen Charlotte definitely was
Speaker 1: a woman of color, and let's build our world from there.
Speaker 1: And that really helped us in terms.
Speaker 2: Of why I don't want to know if she was
Speaker 2: or not. Really, if there's speculation, why don't we know?
Speaker 1: I think there's been some erasure in history, a bit
Speaker 1: of erasure in history, because obviously that was not the
Speaker 1: popular idea at the time. But if you look at
Speaker 1: the portraits, if you listen to the stories you hear,
Speaker 1: it seems like that was who she was.
Speaker 2: Really interesting, and just see the reaction and just see
Speaker 2: the success. I love it. I think it's just incredibly
Speaker 2: fabulous what you do.
Speaker 1: I think audiences embraced that kind of storytelling, storytelling that
Speaker 1: just sort of leans into whatever the idea is.
Speaker 2: Shonda started out as a novelist. Is that what you
Speaker 2: started out as?
Speaker 1: I started out wanting to be a bat Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay, So where'd you go to college?
Speaker 1: I went to Dartmouth College in New Hampshire.
Speaker 2: And how was that?
Speaker 1: Actually? I loved it. It was probably the most exciting
Speaker 1: thing I did at the time in terms of learning
Speaker 1: to spread my wings creatively. I did a lot of theater.
Speaker 1: I directed a lot of theater there. I did a
Speaker 1: lot of writing. Television still hadn't occurred to me back then,
Speaker 1: but it was really a very fertile creative ground for me.
Speaker 2: And it's such a beautiful place.
Speaker 1: It's one of the most beautiful places in the world.
Speaker 2: I has to go up there. When I was in
Speaker 2: high school, I had a boyfriend who was on the
Speaker 2: basketball t h a darkness that I would take that
Speaker 2: long trade ride. Yes, So you then decided that you
Speaker 2: were going to and you started to write books. And
Speaker 2: how many books have you written?
Speaker 1: No? I did my books, So I got out of college.
Speaker 1: I foundered for a little while, worked in advertising, and
Speaker 1: then I read an article that said it was harder
Speaker 1: to get into USC Film School that it was to
Speaker 1: get into Harvard Law School. And my parents were academics,
Speaker 1: and that sounded like something they would accept. So I
Speaker 1: went to film school at USC, and I didn't start
Speaker 1: writing books until much much later.
Speaker 2: On my caread or okay, oh so okay, after film school, yes,
Speaker 2: and what did film do film school do? Yeah?
Speaker 1: It was great. It was a real jumping off point
Speaker 1: for me. I learned so much and I ended up
Speaker 1: writing some movies like I call them teen girl movies.
Speaker 1: I wrote Crossroads, starring Britney Spears, which I hear is
Speaker 1: being rereleased now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well she's becoming another news personality right.
Speaker 1: Now, yes, exactly. And then I did a Princess Diaries too,
Speaker 1: and I did Introducing Dorothy Dandridge hbos So I did
Speaker 1: a bunch of that, and then really just realized that
Speaker 1: all of the real creative work, all the real character development,
Speaker 1: seemed to be happening on television, and I really wanted
Speaker 1: to do that.
Speaker 2: And during COVID, more and more and more, so, don't
Speaker 2: you think, Yes, I agree. As movies sort of dwindled
Speaker 2: because of the difficulty of producing during during COVID TVs,
Speaker 2: I just took off.
Speaker 1: Audiences stopped going to the movies, and everybody started wanting
Speaker 1: to watch things on their screens at home. And I
Speaker 1: think it just really exploded.
Speaker 2: And as of I guess yesterday or this morning, the
Speaker 2: writers have decided to go back to work on this strike.
Speaker 1: Well, yes, a deal was reached. That fact, yeah, I
Speaker 1: just loved about. But a deal was struck that was
Speaker 1: satisfactory to the negotiating committee. And so now, yeah, the
Speaker 1: writers are back to work. As at midnight last night.
Speaker 2: Well, they're going to be there. They're going to be
Speaker 2: so prepared because I hope during this time it's a
Speaker 2: lot of them. It's five months. I know they must
Speaker 2: have been writing like crazy.
Speaker 1: You would think, well, you would think that. I think
Speaker 1: for a lot of us, it was very stressful to
Speaker 1: be on strike. It was really difficult economically for the
Speaker 1: entire town. And then I think for some of us
Speaker 1: having that break actually was a great way to renew
Speaker 1: our creative brain and our creative energy. That was really helpful.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how much writing got done with
Speaker 1: all the worrying and the wrong.
Speaker 2: I hope they did use some of the time to
Speaker 2: do that, because they got a nice, fair settlement for
Speaker 2: what I read, and I'm so happy for them, and
Speaker 2: I hope they did write because I miss Late Night
Speaker 2: so much. Right, you know, we have a poor Jimmy
Speaker 2: fallon and for for all the all the all the
Speaker 2: guys who are just sitting around twiddling their thumbs trying
Speaker 2: to try to be creative in other ways. But I'm
Speaker 2: excited about that. No, No, what about the actors.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. The actors are still out. The actors
Speaker 1: are still on strike, and I think that's going to
Speaker 1: be also a pretty big battle. I don't know that
Speaker 1: that's gonna be.
Speaker 2: Do you have to hold all production?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we halted all production. Yeah. I don't think it's
Speaker 1: a simple solution. So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, this is the whole AI and the whole
Speaker 2: all of that for the for the actors is something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was big for the writers too.
Speaker 2: Yes, So Shondaland tell us about the formation of Shondaland,
Speaker 2: because I love the name Shonda Land and this is
Speaker 2: the parent company of all things Shonda Rhimes and her
Speaker 2: and her group.
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny because when you first create a show
Speaker 1: and you have to put a logo on the show
Speaker 1: for your producing credit, you have to come up with something.
Speaker 1: And so first episode of Gray's Anatomy, I was like,
Speaker 1: let's call it shondaland that sounds cute and fun. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't until the show becomes a huge hit that
Speaker 1: I realized that that's now the name, Like, that's the
Speaker 1: name we're going to use. It is going to be
Speaker 1: forever named after me, which felt like an even bigger
Speaker 1: responsibility started right in the beginning with Gray's Anatomy.
Speaker 2: Now, I just spent a weekend with doctor Nick dreamy
Speaker 2: ah Patrick again, Yes wow, And I posted a picture
Speaker 2: of me with Patrick. I saw that and and I
Speaker 2: cannot tell you, I think I have gotten more comments
Speaker 2: about about Patrick than any other person that's ever been
Speaker 2: on my Instagram. People were crazy about him. Is he
Speaker 2: retired from the show.
Speaker 1: He's retired from the show. He's been gone for oh
Speaker 1: my god, almost ten seasons.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: But I think that that he left in an imprint
Speaker 1: that remained so strong for people. And honestly, like I
Speaker 1: saw him on your on your Instagram and thought like, Wow,
Speaker 1: he looks amazing.
Speaker 2: Oh, he looks so good, and he's a beautiful wife.
Speaker 2: She was with him. We went to Brunello Cucinelli's birthday
Speaker 2: party in Italy and he told me about a house
Speaker 2: he just bought up in Maine and he wants me
Speaker 2: to come see it because I have a house in
Speaker 2: Maine also, and so I'm going to go go consult
Speaker 2: with him on his house. He seems very busy with it.
Speaker 2: But he's making movies now, so very exciting for his career.
Speaker 2: But he became, you know, world famous with Grey's Anatomy,
Speaker 2: as did the other actors on the show. Is just
Speaker 2: an incredible, incredible success story. And so is it streaming
Speaker 2: everywhere Now Gray's Anatomy.
Speaker 1: It's on you can see it all on Netflix, and
Speaker 1: it's still on ABC, and recent episodes are still on Hulu,
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of ways you can get it,
Speaker 1: which is great.
Speaker 2: So when you were preparing for such a show, did
Speaker 2: you did you learn a lot about medicine?
Speaker 1: I did. I spent a lot of time with a
Speaker 1: couple of surgical residents, asking them what their lives were
Speaker 1: like and what, you know, how it all worked. I
Speaker 1: had a wonderful doctor who was over at UCLA Health
Speaker 1: who let us come and look around and learn about
Speaker 1: medicine from the viewing perspective, which was interesting and exciting.
Speaker 1: And then I read a ton and talked to a
Speaker 1: lot of doctors, and we had tons of medical consultants,
Speaker 1: which made it easier. So sometimes I would just type
Speaker 1: they say medical, medical, medical, and the medical medicate.
Speaker 2: It in and they would put in the Oh, that's
Speaker 2: the way, because it's so professional.
Speaker 1: We work really hard on that, and we have some
Speaker 1: actual doctors on staff on our writing staff right well.
Speaker 2: And order does that with the legal, You did it
Speaker 2: amazingly with the medical, just amazingly.
Speaker 1: I love to make science exciting.
Speaker 2: That Ellen Pompeio has become a friend of mine.
Speaker 1: Ellen's wonderful.
Speaker 2: Oh she's a fantastic, fantastic actress and a fantastic person.
Speaker 2: And she was that part. She is that part.
Speaker 1: She is that part, and she I think she always
Speaker 1: will be no matter how much she participates and how
Speaker 1: much she takes off, she always will be that part.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what you do to your actors
Speaker 2: and actresses. Get to Scandal, another very long running, beautiful show.
Speaker 2: You had seven seasons, seven seasons, and will there be
Speaker 2: an eighth or not?
Speaker 1: No? No, no, We're never going to do anymore. I
Speaker 1: think that we ended it exactly the right time for
Speaker 1: us in terms of our storytelling.
Speaker 2: We asked our listeners for some questions for you. So
Speaker 2: many of them were about Olivia Pope, so many about
Speaker 2: each character. I did this one have to die? Why
Speaker 2: did that one have to die? So many people died
Speaker 2: in that show. They But what really got me in
Speaker 2: that show was the speech, that rapid fire speech of
Speaker 2: Olivia Pope. I started to talk like that and I
Speaker 2: had to stop myself. Where did that come from? Is
Speaker 2: that her? Or you?
Speaker 1: No? You know what's interesting is I wrote the first
Speaker 1: script and it was I think seventy five pages long,
Speaker 1: and the script is usually between fifty and sixty. And
Speaker 1: I wrote on at the beginning of the script like
Speaker 1: this is the direction. This should be spoken at rapid
Speaker 1: fire pace. You should never be slowing down to get
Speaker 1: out the words as fast as possible. Part of that
Speaker 1: was I wanted it all on the show. Part of
Speaker 1: it it felt like the pace of Washington at that point,
Speaker 1: it felt like the pace of her work. They should
Speaker 1: speak that way. Everything was you know, in a hurry, what.
Speaker 2: Era were you thinking about when you wrote that show?
Speaker 2: Which era of Washington? Which presidency? Oh?
Speaker 1: In terms of who was the inspiration for that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well what's interesting is I was lucky because I got
Speaker 1: to write it was during the Omalla presidency, So I
Speaker 1: wanted to write a president that was opposite as President
Speaker 1: of Mom as could, because I didn't want there to
Speaker 1: be any comparisons there. But I also was working with
Speaker 1: Judy Smith, who worked during the Bush to presidency, and
Speaker 1: I felt like, this is very interesting, It's an interesting
Speaker 1: line to walk. So in a way, I got to
Speaker 1: invent a White House that was a mixture of both
Speaker 1: of those white Houses in terms of was how it
Speaker 1: was run. And then the president I just created out
Speaker 1: of thin air.
Speaker 2: I saw a little Clinton there.
Speaker 1: There was a little Clinton, little Reagan. Like I tried.
Speaker 1: I tried to really mix it up.
Speaker 2: But the where did the evil come from? That kid
Speaker 2: is infused. Evil is infused in that show. Do you
Speaker 2: think it's really like that anywhere?
Speaker 1: Well, at the time when I wrote it, I always
Speaker 1: say it was really nice to write a ghost story
Speaker 1: when you're standing in the light in the broad daylight.
Speaker 1: But that show was really in a time when everything
Speaker 1: seemed so above born and so wonderful in Washington, and
Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, what if all these amazing people
Speaker 1: that we admire so much, what if they're all just
Speaker 1: deep down inside like monsters? What would that feel like?
Speaker 2: Well? There was one too, Yes, right, there were things.
Speaker 2: There were there were people in Washington promoting that, and
Speaker 2: those people kind of come out in your show very
Speaker 2: very strongly, yes, and very worrisomely.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: You know that was and your Olivia Pope. Has she
Speaker 2: done any other big shows since Carrie Candall Kerry Washington's
Speaker 2: doing so much. She's got her own production company and
Speaker 2: they are pretty She's so smart.
Speaker 1: She's one of the smartest people I know, not just
Speaker 1: one of the smartest actors, one of the smartest people
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: And beautiful.
Speaker 1: Well, yes that goes out saying, but she's really really
Speaker 1: brilliant and has been really working to make her own shows.
Speaker 1: And she's done a couple of things. She and Reese
Speaker 1: Witherspoon did a show, and she's she's done a ton.
Speaker 2: That part, though, did it hurt her? It was allowed
Speaker 2: inside and that was interesting. That was a hard part.
Speaker 1: She's the person who really digs in though she I
Speaker 1: think she'd tell her you could tell her when she
Speaker 1: was doing it. I think she relished all the parts
Speaker 1: of the character that were so different from her that
Speaker 1: allowed her to like dig into new things. And she
Speaker 1: was always like the most committed actor.
Speaker 2: And you really give it to them.
Speaker 1: I enjoy writing things for actors that well, just I
Speaker 1: enjoy writing stories that feel a little bit unexpected but
Speaker 1: also sort of expand what you're so prolific.
Speaker 2: I mean, you go from Washington to Queen Charlotte to
Speaker 2: the operating room. How do you do that?
Speaker 1: Well, where do you do that? It used to be
Speaker 1: that I was writing three shows at once, and I
Speaker 1: am not doing that anymore, which is lovely, but it's
Speaker 1: also fun for me. Like there was a period of
Speaker 1: time when I could write Scandal and write Gray's Anatomy
Speaker 1: and turn my brain off from one to the other,
Speaker 1: and it would feel like arrest, like a respect from
Speaker 1: one to the other. Now not so much, I don't think,
Speaker 1: But I love getting to dive into new world.
Speaker 2: And by the way, our guest is how old fifty
Speaker 2: three fifty three years old, Look what she has accomplished
Speaker 2: and fifty three short years. You are amazing. Oh, thank you, No,
Speaker 2: really amazing. It's just phenomenal to think of all this success,
Speaker 2: but not even the success, just the amount of work
Speaker 2: and beautiful work that you have created for us.
Speaker 1: I feel really lucky because I love what I do
Speaker 1: and I get to do what I love, and that's
Speaker 1: that's insane to me. That's the dream right there.
Speaker 2: Well, now that the writer's strike is over, Yes, what
Speaker 2: are you working on? Oh? About it a little?
Speaker 1: Well, we are making a show that's still not being
Speaker 1: We were shooting it and we had to stop, so
Speaker 1: we'll see when we get back when the actors are back.
Speaker 1: We're making a show called The Residents, which is just
Speaker 1: a very all out mystery in the White House, which
Speaker 1: I'm excited about, which I think is really fun and.
Speaker 2: A little bit different for us.
Speaker 1: We still have more seasons of Bridgerton to come, a
Speaker 1: lot more seasons of Bridgerton to come, and I'm searching
Speaker 1: for exactly what I'm going to focus on next for
Speaker 1: me and Bridgerton.
Speaker 2: Where does it go? Where do you go?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, there are eight British and siblings, and
Speaker 1: there are eight Bridgton books about eight Bridgis and siblings,
Speaker 1: so our goal is to tell a story about each
Speaker 1: one of them. Queen Charlotte was set in the Georgian era,
Speaker 1: but this is the Regency era, and we get to
Speaker 1: really explore what that means for women at that time
Speaker 1: and what it means for relationships.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I I think it's an unresult.
Speaker 2: Do you spend much time overseas in England?
Speaker 1: I've spent a little bit more, definitely a little bit
Speaker 1: more time. And now that I'm sort of halfway between
Speaker 1: la and London, it makes it easier, so it's exciting
Speaker 1: to get to be there. But mostly I always say
Speaker 1: that if I'm standing on a set, I'm the only
Speaker 1: person not working. Everybody else is busy doing a job,
Speaker 1: and any word I say becomes a criticism or a concern,
Speaker 1: So I try really hard to just be supporting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you want everybody to feel free to do their creative work.
Speaker 1: But you have a director, you have producers. Oh yes, yes,
Speaker 1: we always have a writer on set and that's always
Speaker 1: the most important thing, Like a writer who's a producer
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: So you say that you suffered from poster syndrome, what
Speaker 2: does that mean? Imposter's syndrome when you were working.
Speaker 1: I actually don't suffer from imposter syndrome. I don't believe
Speaker 1: in imposter syndrome. And the reason I say that is
Speaker 1: because it's so hard to believe in yourself anyway that
Speaker 1: if you start giving it a name, like I refuse
Speaker 1: to name it, same way I refuse to name writer's block.
Speaker 1: If you start giving it a name, it sort of
Speaker 1: takes over. So I try really hard to just keep
Speaker 1: moving forward.
Speaker 2: You wrote the book The Year of Yes Yes. Tell
Speaker 2: us about that book.
Speaker 1: So it's a memoir sort of about I think it's
Speaker 1: sort of about my creative process. But really what it's
Speaker 1: about is I would come home and tell my my
Speaker 1: I have several sisters. I would tell my sister all
Speaker 1: of the things that I had been invited to do.
Speaker 1: I'd invite to go to this event, and I'd invited
Speaker 1: to say this thing at the castle and this and that,
Speaker 1: and she finally said, are you going to do any
Speaker 1: of these things? And I said, well no, And she said,
Speaker 1: you never say yes to anything. And that really stuck
Speaker 1: with me, this idea that like I was having all
Speaker 1: the success but not having any of the new experiences
Speaker 1: that come with that, and so I decided to take
Speaker 1: a year and say yes to everything that really scared me,
Speaker 1: and so I did everything. I went and I did
Speaker 1: a commencement speech at Dartmouth, which was me for public speaking.
Speaker 1: It was terrifying.
Speaker 2: Is it is it on YouTube?
Speaker 1: It's on YouTube. We're gonna watch it. I did a
Speaker 1: Jimmy you know what. It was amazing when I discovered
Speaker 1: in this, in the writing of this book and in
Speaker 1: this process of this is to do the thing that
Speaker 1: terrifies you sort of undoes the fear. So I was
Speaker 1: so I mean, I was shaking when I got up
Speaker 1: to that podium, but somehow there was just this moment
Speaker 1: when you can see me exhale and all of my
Speaker 1: fear just washes away, and it's It was profound for me,
Speaker 1: It really was. There were a lot of those moments
Speaker 1: that year.
Speaker 2: And what else did you say yes to? Oh?
Speaker 1: I went on Jimmy Kimmel Live. And I had always
Speaker 1: been afraid of being on like any kind of live show.
Speaker 1: I thought that was going to be a terrible thing.
Speaker 1: Jimmy was amazing and sort of made it easy. It
Speaker 1: was fun. He's so fun, and he was so kind
Speaker 1: to me because I so clearly was terrified. I starred
Speaker 1: in an episode of The Not Start guest starting in
Speaker 1: an episode of The De Kayaling Show where I was acting,
Speaker 1: which has always been a thing that was also terrifying
Speaker 1: for me as well. I did a lot of things.
Speaker 1: I mean it was very interesting, and I joined a
Speaker 1: lot of things, and I found myself having just these
Speaker 1: new experiences that changed my life.
Speaker 2: You said that you said yes to know to a proposal.
Speaker 1: Yes I did. I was sort of on that track
Speaker 1: that you're supposed to be on. And really great guy
Speaker 1: and never been married, No, never been married.
Speaker 2: Never been married. Really great children do you have?
Speaker 1: I have three, three kids? Oh nice, various ways.
Speaker 2: And you said your daughter's out just graduated from college.
Speaker 1: I have a daughter who's in college in New York City,
Speaker 1: and I have a ten year old and an eleven
Speaker 1: year old. So I just it just wasn't me. Like
Speaker 1: I kept trying to figure out how I was going
Speaker 1: to fit myself into this box and it wasn't me.
Speaker 2: And I remember, I can't imagine that you have time
Speaker 2: to be married. That's so that's it, that you don't
Speaker 2: have time, right.
Speaker 1: Someone once said to me that you can be married
Speaker 1: you can have a career, and you can have or
Speaker 1: you can have children, but you can't have all three.
Speaker 2: Well, when we talked about balance in the olden days,
Speaker 2: you know, everybody thought you could balance work with husband,
Speaker 2: with children, with home with entertaining. And you know, I
Speaker 2: talk about I talk about that a lot because balance
Speaker 2: just it didn't work for me. And getting divorced freed me,
Speaker 2: not happily. I like being married, yeah, but freed me
Speaker 2: from that kind of situation and angst because it's hard
Speaker 2: to be married and do everything that the husband wants
Speaker 2: right and then do your own thing. And building a
Speaker 2: company was next in my agenda and uh, and it's
Speaker 2: worked out fine. And I haven't wanted to get married again.
Speaker 2: See I understand that, but I don't want to. I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't. I love having I love men, I love
Speaker 2: taking going out with men, I love talking to men,
Speaker 2: but I don't have to be married to them.
Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. I'm looking if anybody wants to
Speaker 1: be out here on Martha, she's looking, But I'm not
Speaker 1: looking to get married.
Speaker 2: Okay, same with me, Yeah, always always the same. That's
Speaker 2: out of the way. So was one, Yes, really fantastic
Speaker 2: exciting that you did that you never thought you would do,
Speaker 2: like jump out of an airplane with the parachuters.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I think my yeses were smaller. They were
Speaker 1: definitely smaller than that. The best thing I did, and
Speaker 1: I did a Ted talk on this, and it sounds crazy,
Speaker 1: but the best thing that I did was I said
Speaker 1: yes to my children every time they asked me to play, which,
Speaker 1: as you know, as busy as life gets and as
Speaker 1: busy as you are with work and with everything else,
Speaker 1: it's very hard to take that time. And what I
Speaker 1: realized is if I said yes every time, they stopped worrying,
Speaker 1: that I would say no number one and therefore didn't
Speaker 1: ask as much in an interesting way. And two, they
Speaker 1: really only need ten minutes. Like you say yes, it's
Speaker 1: really only ten minutes a time, and it may have
Speaker 1: been definitely.
Speaker 2: Run off and do something else, but you were there
Speaker 2: for that right.
Speaker 1: I was there for them, and that made a huge difference.
Speaker 2: I remember working at your age and a little younger,
Speaker 2: and traveling to New York to my job and making
Speaker 2: sure that I got home every night just to have dinner,
Speaker 2: because even though it was very very difficult, I got
Speaker 2: home for making dinner and sitting down at a table
Speaker 2: with my husband and daughter, and that was very important.
Speaker 1: It's very powerful for them too, for your child especially,
Speaker 1: it's a really powerful thing to know that you're there there.
Speaker 2: Your producing partner is Betsy Bears. Yes, how important is
Speaker 2: that relationship to your work.
Speaker 1: Betty and I have been together since the beginning of
Speaker 1: Grey's Anatomy as producing partners. I've known her as long
Speaker 1: I mean as long as the show's been on the
Speaker 1: air and before I've known her. I've known her as
Speaker 1: long as I've known my daughter twenty one years. And
Speaker 1: she's been amazing, Like she's been sort of the other
Speaker 1: half of my brain in terms of thinking about producing
Speaker 1: in the practical ways where I'm thinking sort of in
Speaker 1: the creative ways. But she's also been a great person
Speaker 1: over the years to bounce things off of. And she's
Speaker 1: the person who came to me and said, you have
Speaker 1: to meet this woman named Judy Smith. I think she
Speaker 1: could be a television show. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to do that, and she was like, do it.
Speaker 1: And that's how scandal came to me. Like she's she
Speaker 1: knows me really well, and I know her really well,
Speaker 1: and I think we work together well. For that reason
Speaker 1: was Judy was the extual inspiration.
Speaker 2: She was she was the fixer. Yeah, it was your
Speaker 2: CEO that lives in Dallas.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's mega. I have a wonderful CEO who lives
Speaker 1: in Dallas. And that was sort of a thing that
Speaker 1: we did starting at the beginning of our sort of
Speaker 1: pandemic experience. I know I needed to knew I needed
Speaker 1: to hire somebody, and I knew I needed somebody and
Speaker 1: we were sort of being remote and we still are
Speaker 1: really doing a lot of remote things, and it felt
Speaker 1: like if I was going to move to Connecticut, I
Speaker 1: needed somebody who was going to be boots on the ground.
Speaker 2: Well, she loves her job. I met her husband in Italy, Yes,
Speaker 2: and we talked about it. So she goes back and
Speaker 2: forth to La. Yeah, manages everything spectacular somebody like that.
Speaker 2: So can you describe how your roles are different on
Speaker 2: your roster of hit shows? So, Gray's Anatomy, right, you're
Speaker 2: the writer, Well, Scandal, you're the writer.
Speaker 1: Right, Gray's Anatomy, Scandal, Private Practice. As the writer and
Speaker 1: executive producer on How to Go with Murder, I was
Speaker 1: the executive producer for a wonderful writer named Pete Nook.
Speaker 2: That's such a good show.
Speaker 1: Oh he and he did just He's amazing, He's brilliant
Speaker 1: and it was wonderful to work with him. I hope
Speaker 1: we get to do it again sometimes because he was
Speaker 1: so great. And then on the streaming shows when we
Speaker 1: moved over to Netflix, Bridgerton was a project that I
Speaker 1: found and was in love with and felt like really
Speaker 1: strongly about. But I brought in another writer to write,
Speaker 1: which was great because it allowed me to shepherd but
Speaker 1: not be inside. And Queen Charlotte and Inventing Anna the
Speaker 1: same way were things I wrote and executive produced.
Speaker 2: I have some numbers here that were like astonishing.
Speaker 1: We had three shows in the top ten Netflix Feeling
Speaker 1: of all time, and then a fourth show. Okay, Queen
Speaker 1: Charlotte came in and knocked one of the third show
Speaker 1: that we had on there off the list, and so
Speaker 1: we still have three shows.
Speaker 2: Oh Ohlie knocked off Bridgerton cho.
Speaker 1: No, King Charlotte knocked off Inventing Anna. So yeah, that
Speaker 1: was a good show. I enjoyed that writing that show.
Speaker 1: That was very different for me and so much fun.
Speaker 1: When your actress was so good, she's incredibly talented. They
Speaker 1: all were. It was really wonderful.
Speaker 2: Show was amazing. Here's some interesting facts. Netflix most watched
Speaker 2: TV shows one to ten. There's Squid Games, Stranger Things,
Speaker 2: Damer Wednesday, Money Heist, and then Bridgerton season two, Ridgerton's
Speaker 2: season one. But you want to know how many viewers?
Speaker 2: How many hours Bridgerton two six hundred and fifty six
Speaker 2: million hours watched? Yeah that is and that's but that's
Speaker 2: not that's on a single TV not knowing how many
Speaker 2: people are around that or watching the TV exactly. So
Speaker 2: if you multiply that same family of three or something.
Speaker 2: I mean, do you do you know how people watch TV? Now?
Speaker 2: Do they watch on fa me or do they watch individually?
Speaker 1: It depends on who they are. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: there are couples who watch everything together. I think there
Speaker 1: are definitely. I hear a lot of anecdotal stories about
Speaker 1: families watching Bridgerton together, although I don't recommend watching it
Speaker 1: with your mom. It's a lot.
Speaker 2: Did you love Squid Games?
Speaker 1: I thought it was fascinating. I did too, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was fascinating.
Speaker 2: My daughter banded from her children. They were a living
Speaker 2: I get that. Yes, banned it and and then I
Speaker 2: started to talk about it with with film one day,
Speaker 2: and they knew everything.
Speaker 1: They watched it.
Speaker 2: Of course they had watched it, and they and I
Speaker 2: thought it was funny, and they didn't think it was
Speaker 2: quite as funny as I thought. It was interesting. But
Speaker 2: but but that they knew.
Speaker 1: Everything they do, and you think you think you're sort
Speaker 1: of hiding something from them or keeping something from them.
Speaker 2: It's very hard to do. How accurate it is Queen Charlotte.
Speaker 1: We tried to be accurate in as many ways as
Speaker 1: we possibly could, Like there's a lot of actual history
Speaker 1: embedded in there. But I was really trying to tell
Speaker 1: the story not of the actual Queen Charlotte, but of
Speaker 1: the Queen Charlotte you've come to know in Bridgerton. Like
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell her origin story because as played
Speaker 1: by Golda, I mean, that character is amazing, and I
Speaker 1: kept thinking, how does she come to be who she is?
Speaker 1: And so we were sort of melded some real history
Speaker 1: with a lot of the fiction of Queen Charlotte from
Speaker 1: Bridgerton and built that.
Speaker 2: The American audience of course loves it. What about the
Speaker 2: English audience.
Speaker 1: He really embraced it as well. It did really well
Speaker 1: over there, which was really exciting to see. I also
Speaker 1: think that a lot of them enjoyed. You know, we
Speaker 1: really depicted mental health in a very specific way, and
Speaker 1: I was really proud of that, like that we got
Speaker 1: to sort of humanize this character who for a long
Speaker 1: time had been sort of referred to as just mad
Speaker 1: King George and made fun of. So I think that helped.
Speaker 2: So how do you foster a creative environment in your
Speaker 2: writer's room.
Speaker 1: I love having people in the room who will argue
Speaker 1: with me, and I try to make that very clear,
Speaker 1: like your dissent is welcome, because I think it's terrifying
Speaker 1: uncreative to me in a room where everyone's supposed to
Speaker 1: agree with me.
Speaker 2: Well, you say you have an hour script for Bridgerton?
Speaker 2: Is it an hour? A total hour?
Speaker 1: Brigishon's an hour?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have to write how many pages does
Speaker 2: that take?
Speaker 1: Well, luckily I don't write Bridgerton, but Bridgington's an hour
Speaker 1: and it's probably about sixty five seventy pages. But like
Speaker 1: inventing Anna, it was the same thing, and Queen Charlotte
Speaker 1: was the same thing. But a writer's room should be
Speaker 1: a place where people feel like they can tell you
Speaker 1: you're wrong, They could argue your opinion. And I love
Speaker 1: people who think very differently than I do, so I
Speaker 1: like to fill the room with people who are like
Speaker 1: real individuals.
Speaker 2: How long does one hour of Queen Charlotte take? You're right,
Speaker 2: you do an outline.
Speaker 1: I don't do outlines. I mean I have to be
Speaker 1: I'm a person who doesn't do outlines, but when it's
Speaker 1: in your head right. But when I have writers writing
Speaker 1: with me, it's really important, and I think we try
Speaker 1: really hard to give them time to you know, you
Speaker 1: break a story, you talk about it a lot, and
Speaker 1: when you're working with a room, it's really important that
Speaker 1: I'm very talkative and share like what's in my mind,
Speaker 1: and then they can build on that and share their
Speaker 1: opinions and thoughts too. Some of the best episodes we've
Speaker 1: ever had. My favorite episode of Inventing Anna was completely
Speaker 1: written by another writer, Matt Byrne, who just knew what
Speaker 1: he was doing and built this story that was so
Speaker 1: great that when I read it, I thought like, this
Speaker 1: is perfect. But we'd also like argued it out in
Speaker 1: a room for a long time, which was wonderful.
Speaker 2: What a great thing to show the viewing public a
Speaker 2: character like that which we would never get to know
Speaker 2: just from a book.
Speaker 1: It was important. I thought it would be really fun
Speaker 1: too to sort of see where she came from and
Speaker 1: to view it. I mean, not with a ton of sympathy,
Speaker 1: but with a ton of empathy for who she is
Speaker 1: and how she got there.
Speaker 2: That's a good word. That's yeah. And what's for you,
Speaker 2: besides of course obvious success, what's the most rewarding aspect
Speaker 2: of being the head of shondalam a media company? You
Speaker 2: know you are a megabrand.
Speaker 1: I love getting to invest in talent and help them
Speaker 1: tell their stories. We have a series of podcasts with
Speaker 1: amazing people. We enjoy like bringing other young writers along
Speaker 1: and helping them have their own shows. And if I
Speaker 1: can help them in any way, I think that that's exciting.
Speaker 1: So to me, like, that's what I enjoy the most.
Speaker 2: Who is your competition, and you know your competition.
Speaker 1: I don't know that we have exact competition. They're really
Speaker 1: big companies who do some other really great things. But luckily,
Speaker 1: I think we all have our own specific creative lanes
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: Like Squid Names has their own lanes, Squid.
Speaker 1: Games has their own life in Korea too, right, exactly,
Speaker 1: but they're indefinite like a lot of companies. Ryan Murphy's
Speaker 1: company makes a ton of shows. We are in totally
Speaker 1: different lanes, which I love you. So it's it's fun
Speaker 1: to be able to have it that way.
Speaker 2: I talked to him and he says, he goes up
Speaker 2: and then he goes down. He has happy, then he
Speaker 2: goes to evil, then he goes happy. That's true evil.
Speaker 1: That's interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a little bit more even tempered. I am
Speaker 2: a little bit more, but you're a mother, yes, and
Speaker 2: I think that makes a huge difference.
Speaker 1: I think it does too.
Speaker 2: So you've written characters who have become really a part
Speaker 2: of the pop culture lexicon. We talked about doctor McDreamy Mix, Steamy,
Speaker 2: Olivia Pope. How do you know when you've developed a
Speaker 2: character that will really resonate with the audience. How did
Speaker 2: you know that Olivia Pope would resonate as she did
Speaker 2: so strongly?
Speaker 1: You know, my only goal when I start writing shows
Speaker 1: is to write something that I really really want to watch,
Speaker 1: and that's my only barometer. I think one day, shows
Speaker 1: I really really want to watch might be something that
Speaker 1: nobody else wants to watch. But I have the good
Speaker 1: fortune right now that when I create a character that
Speaker 1: I really care for, it feels like the audience also
Speaker 1: feels that cares for them too.
Speaker 2: So why do you think Gray's Anatomy has withstood the
Speaker 2: test of time for twenty one years? Wow?
Speaker 1: I think part of it is the longevity of the characters.
Speaker 1: I mean, most people stayed on that show for between
Speaker 1: seven and ten fifteen years. I mean there was always
Speaker 1: somebody sort of doing the follow through. We didn't have
Speaker 1: a lot of attrition. I'd say yeah, and then.
Speaker 2: Liked their jobs. Yeah, I liked being who they were
Speaker 2: on the show. I think they did. I think that
Speaker 2: those characters are heroic in a lot of ways. I
Speaker 2: also think, though, that there's something really relatable for the
Speaker 2: public about the kind of medicine we were practicing, and
Speaker 2: that we were telling the stories from the point of
Speaker 2: view of people who were struggling to do their jobs well.
Speaker 2: And when you did your job badly on a day,
Speaker 2: someone died, I think there's something really relatable about that.
Speaker 2: I'm always amazed when I run into young women who
Speaker 2: tell me that they became doctors because they became addicted
Speaker 2: to Gray's anatomy, and I love hearing that because something
Speaker 2: about it made them stand in those women's shoes and
Speaker 2: get excited about science and realize that they could do
Speaker 2: that job.
Speaker 1: Yes, every year I'm surprised, and every year I'm thrilled
Speaker 1: that people are still embracing the show.
Speaker 2: Is there a big difference between writing for a network
Speaker 2: or a Netflix?
Speaker 1: So I think the big deal about writing for network
Speaker 1: is there are all of these fences involved. You have
Speaker 1: to tell a story in this many acts, you have
Speaker 1: this much time, you can say, oh, we're do all
Speaker 1: these things right. There's a lot of those fences. And
Speaker 1: when you go to a place like Netflix, there are
Speaker 1: no fences, and they've been very supportive and wonderful about
Speaker 1: the creative stuff we want to do.
Speaker 2: The problem you're one of their super super superstars.
Speaker 1: But the problem with being able to do what you
Speaker 1: want to do is that you really have to then
Speaker 1: feel the responsibility of the quality control because if you
Speaker 1: can do anything, that's always a terrible thing. I think, like,
Speaker 1: it's nice to remember that we can do anything, but
Speaker 1: we shouldn't do everything.
Speaker 2: Well, there are executives there. Don't they say anything to
Speaker 2: you or.
Speaker 1: Do they just oh, They're very supportive and lovely. But
Speaker 1: we really have been given a lot of freedom that
Speaker 1: I don't think necessarily other people have, and I take
Speaker 1: that as a great responsibility.
Speaker 2: Did you propose Bridger to them? Yes, okay, and they
Speaker 2: liked it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. These were books that I had become obsessed with
Speaker 1: and really really wanted us to have, And so I
Speaker 1: walked in the door with those like really in my
Speaker 1: mind of something we should do.
Speaker 2: So spin offs and sequels have become their own world.
Speaker 2: What's the difference between building a show and then building
Speaker 2: a franchise from that show.
Speaker 1: That's a good thing. That's a good question. We have
Speaker 1: built a franchise off of Grey's Anatomy, obviously with Station
Speaker 1: nineteen and with Private Practice, and it's all working. It's
Speaker 1: about doing it authentically, Like you can't just jam some
Speaker 1: other show onto something. You really have to make it
Speaker 1: spring from the heart of what the show is to
Speaker 1: really build it so it works. I think that's the
Speaker 1: most important thing. When you're building a show, you're building
Speaker 1: a world, and then anything that comes off of that
Speaker 1: world really has to be a bit of that world
Speaker 1: and feel natural.
Speaker 2: One question that came up was what are three episodes
Speaker 2: that you have created that you're so proud of. Oh,
Speaker 2: interesting in any of your shows, This is a good question.
Speaker 2: This gives you the shivers still, the super.
Speaker 1: Bowl episode of Grey's Anatome where Meredith has our hand
Speaker 1: and on a mom and about body cavity. That was
Speaker 1: one because it was the first big episode of anything
Speaker 1: I'd written, and it was exciting. Scandal, There are so
Speaker 1: many episodes Scandal that I really just love, but the
Speaker 1: one where Olivia Pope has an abortion on Christmas Eve
Speaker 1: might be the one that I like the most because
Speaker 1: of its power and how we told that story. And
Speaker 1: then Private Practice, we did this an amazing episode called
Speaker 1: did You Hear What Happened to Charlotte King? And she
Speaker 1: had been attacked and it was a great medical episode
Speaker 1: about what happens when you're attacked. So those three always
Speaker 1: stand out to me because they're the ones people mentioned
Speaker 1: to me the most. But for me writing Queen Charlotte,
Speaker 1: the final episode of Queen Charlotte is probably my favorite
Speaker 1: thing I've ever written.
Speaker 2: Really. Yeah, So your family is such an important part
Speaker 2: of your life. You do so much for your family,
Speaker 2: and what roles have they played in your career?
Speaker 1: I feel like my family has done so much for me.
Speaker 1: How many sisters you said, you have several sisters. I
Speaker 1: am the youngest of six. Oh wow, yeah, so girls? No, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: four girls, two boys.
Speaker 2: We were three boys, three girls in my fas.
Speaker 1: Oh see, yeah, same saying six. So I was the
Speaker 1: youngest of six. My sister Sandy, who is amazing and
Speaker 1: probably my best friend in the world, also sort of
Speaker 1: runs the other half of our company, the digital division,
Speaker 1: and all that goes along with that. So for her,
Speaker 1: I love it because she's a person who can say
Speaker 1: to me, that's a bad idea, Shanda, No, but also
Speaker 1: just has this well of creativity of her own which
Speaker 1: is amazing and really springs to life. And then my
Speaker 1: other siblings, we've all been really really close, aren't this
Speaker 1: whole time? We've been lucky for that.
Speaker 2: Did they live around Yeah, some of them live.
Speaker 1: Pretty close, which is wonderful. And my parents, who when
Speaker 1: I moved to Connecticut, they basically said to me, you
Speaker 1: took our granddaughters and they packed up and they moved
Speaker 1: to Connecticut too, So they live about four blocks from me.
Speaker 2: Now, oh how great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're a close family.
Speaker 2: That is so nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so very nice.
Speaker 2: In your book, you talk a lot about how hard
Speaker 2: you were to create a future for your daughters. What
Speaker 2: are your hopes for your daughters?
Speaker 1: You know, the best thing I can say the world.
Speaker 1: The best thing I can say is I feel like
Speaker 1: my parents did everything they could to set up a
Speaker 1: world so that me and my siblings that we could
Speaker 1: so that we could all succeed, succeed in the way
Speaker 1: that we wanted to succeed. And I think that they
Speaker 1: made sure that we had the education behind it and
Speaker 1: all of those things that were necessary. And for me,
Speaker 1: I feel like now I'm in a position where I
Speaker 1: can set up the world for my daughter so that
Speaker 1: they can pursue their passions. In a lot of cases,
Speaker 1: making a living is not the same as pursuing a passion.
Speaker 1: So they can pursue their passions the way they want to,
Speaker 1: but also have like the foundation to take care of themselves,
Speaker 1: which I think is important, especially in this world. I
Speaker 1: want them to be savvy and I want them to
Speaker 1: be civic minded. I want them to be voters. I
Speaker 1: want them to pay attention to everything.
Speaker 2: And this is a silly question they want me to ask. Okay,
Speaker 2: if you were able to date any of the characters
Speaker 2: from your shows. Who would it be? Which are those
Speaker 2: sexy men would you be dating?
Speaker 1: I might have to reach back in time and say
Speaker 1: that I would need to date the Duke from Bridgerton
Speaker 1: for season one of the Bridgerton of that series. He's
Speaker 1: a little damaged, but all of the men I write
Speaker 1: are pretty damaged or yeah, so I think probably maybe
Speaker 1: him recently, but it's hard to know. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: so many interesting ones, and it's also just not healthy
Speaker 1: to think about dating somebody whose lines you write.
Speaker 2: Well, you have been fantastic. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: talking to me for such a long time, and to
Speaker 2: keep up with all that Shonda is doing, and it's
Speaker 2: a lot. Follow her on Instagram at Shonda Rhymes. Find
Speaker 2: her podcasts and more on her website Shondalandmedia dot com.
Speaker 2: Thank you so very much for taking the time, Shonda.
Speaker 2: Thank you, it's a pleasure. And keep up this fantastic
Speaker 2: work so we have things to watch forever and ever.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you.