1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff to Blow Your Mind from how stop 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hey, welcome to stept to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Christian Seger. So, Robert, 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: you just got back from the trip to New York City. Yeah. 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: I I checked out the World Science Festival this year, 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: checked out of a couple of times in previous years. 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: And it's always it's always a blast. There always some 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: wonderful talks, wonderful panels, as well as things like street 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: festivals with lots of you know, stuff for kids, various 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: interactive events. But they like a Neil de grass Tyson 11 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: dunking pool. No, I think he has, he has participated 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,279 Speaker 1: in the in the past. And yeah, and I think 13 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: sometimes shows of an audience of the talk is, oh, 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: that's kind of cool, something that interests him. Um. But yeah, 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: I took in several different talks, came back, you know, 16 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: with a lot of ideas in my head or in 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: my notebook for the show, and I thought that today 18 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: we could jump in and talk about one of the 19 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: topics that that was covered, and that is the realm 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: of synthetic biology. Yeah, and so we should clarify what 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: synthetic biology means, because when you first said it to me, 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: I thought, oh, we're gonna talk about androids. Are like 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: the Vision from the Avengers, Right, he's a synthetic human being, right, 24 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: that's synthetic biology. Sure, yeah, but like what we're talking 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: about here is something very specific genetic engineering, right. Yeah. 26 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: So I mean I have to admit to when you 27 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: when I hear synthetic biology, I think of the the 28 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: synthetic humanoids from the Alien series. Yeah, with their white 29 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: blood splirting all over the place. That's Henson, Yeah. Yeah. 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: And what was the one in the first one Home 31 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: or sorry, you know home? Yeah, Ian Home. Yeah, they 32 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: played the villainous one. So yeah, that's the kind of 33 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: stuff that may come to mind. And we'll also get 34 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: into some of the other sort of surface level interpretationtions 35 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: of what's going on, But ultimately this episode is about 36 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: demystifying the topic just a little bit, like getting down 37 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: to the to the basic nuts and bolts of what 38 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: is up happening when we create synthetic biology, when we 39 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: genetically engineer an organism, and then also discuss some of 40 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: the possibilities in the in the you know, some very 41 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: fascinating near future possibilities for synthetic biology as well some 42 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: of the amazing things we're already doing that that maybe 43 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: you just haven't heard about because they're just there's maybe 44 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: they're two every day or they are uh you know, 45 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: they're not as sexy just on the surface of things. Yeah. Absolutely, 46 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: And I can already hear alarm bells ringing in our 47 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: listeners ears going, oh, GMOs, genetically modified organisms. They're gonna 48 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: talk about this. In fact, after we did the what 49 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: we called the Organic Panic episode, the Organic Foods episode, 50 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people wrote into us and said, you've 51 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: got to do GMOs. I can't believe you didn't talk 52 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: about GMOs during this something that's it's a topic that's 53 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: hot on people's is right, especially science oriented listeners. Um, 54 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: this is not going to be directly about GMOs, but 55 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: obviously we're gonna be touching on that here and there 56 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: and genetically modified food. But this is more I would 57 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: call this more of like an overview of like how 58 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: the science actually works on it, more than a like 59 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: this is why it's so bad for you, and this 60 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: is why it's not bad for you, right like that 61 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: that expectation that we've I think that like news media 62 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: has sort of uh taught us to to expect from 63 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: anything that has the word GMO on it in the headline. Yeah, 64 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: So hopefully, even though we're not going to discuss GMO 65 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: a lot, this this podcast episode will give you some 66 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: uh some material, some food for thought. It will help you, 67 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: you know, figure out again stand on the topic. You 68 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: can go forward and kind of dig around and do 69 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: your own homework based on the stuff that we present 70 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: to you today. So this presumably came out of a 71 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: panel that you went to, right, So tell me about 72 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: the panel, all right, Yeah, for us, Well, the panel 73 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: was the particular discussion was titled It's Alive, But is 74 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: it a Life? Synthetic Biology in the Future of Creation, 75 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: which is a wonderful, wonderful title. It was moderated by 76 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: Robert Krulwich of Radio Lab and the participants. If if 77 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: you're familiar with any of these individuals, I mean, if 78 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: you've read about synthetic bology at all, some of these 79 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: names have come up. Geneticist George Church, uh, synthetic biologists 80 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: Drew Indie, technologist Tom Knight, and synthetic biologist Pamela Silver. 81 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: Now for the research that we did today, George Church 82 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: is a big name. He is a huge name. Yeah, 83 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: so he that's cool that he was actually there to 84 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: talk and defend his ideas. Yeah. Now, granted, the defending 85 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 1: is being kind of a strong word because some of 86 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: my favorite World Science Festival panels have involved kind of 87 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: incendiary figures that are kind of that didn't you know, 88 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: they don't get into all out fights, but they did 89 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: get into sort of heated, uh academic discussions science war, yeah, 90 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: a little bit science war or even like science versus 91 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: humanities war stuff I often find most engaging. Here, you 92 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: had four individuals who are all more or less on 93 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: the same page. There are certain disagreements that they seem 94 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: to have, but then given their closeness, they were not 95 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: all that um ready to you know, engage in some 96 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: sort of discussion about those disagreement. There's also sort of 97 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: a level of professionalism that you should bring to public 98 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: appearances like that, especially if you're debating big ideas like this. 99 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: But from what I've read about George Church, apparently there 100 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: is a side to the science community that just basically 101 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: ostracizes him. And like, like he's had events like press 102 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: events before where he wanted to talk about ideas that 103 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: he had or work he was doing, and people in 104 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: the community just were like, nope, like we don't want 105 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: to have anything to do with this because we think 106 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 1: he's unethical or something like that. And then he sort 107 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: of later clarifies and it's like, whoa, you guys are 108 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: taking this too far. Like so well, we'll get into 109 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: that throughout the episod, but he's a controversial figure. Uh yeah, yeah, 110 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: to to was seemingly to a mild degree, probably in 111 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: a niche community. It's not like he walks down the 112 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: street and people are throwing tomatoes at right. I mean, 113 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: he's certainly not any kind of a fringe scientist or 114 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: thing of that nature. But you know, he's he's engaged 115 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: in work that deals with genetics and deals with the 116 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: human genome, and that can be a hot button issue, um, 117 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: you know, for no other reason because we have the 118 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: word human in there, and he's actually campaigned against using 119 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: like human in the title for things in this nature. 120 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: And his point is that, you know, it's not all 121 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: directly related to the human genomes. A lot of genomes 122 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: that are being discussed and tinkered with here, and you 123 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: kind of risk weighting the uh, the work down by 124 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: shackling it to all the complexities and the and the 125 00:06:55,120 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: potential you know, hot button issues surrounding human genetics. There 126 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: are many of those, and we'll we're gonna sort of 127 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: go in and out of those as we cover the 128 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: basics here. So let's let's start by just answering very basic, 129 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: what is genetic engineering? We've all heard that, right, but 130 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: what does that actually mean? Genetic modification or genetic engineering. 131 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: This just means inserting genes from one species into another 132 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: to give that organism new abilities or characteristics. It's it's 133 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: taking the blueprint essentially for one, yeah organism, and uh, 134 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: cutting and pasting a little bit from another. Yeah. I 135 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: like to think about it after reading this stuff as 136 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: giving them superpowers, but they're like really kind of lame superpowers, right, Like, uh, 137 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: we're talking about in the case of bacteria, you go 138 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: into the extra rings of DNA around them, which are 139 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: called plasmids, and this bacteria. This gives the bacteria their 140 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: extra abilities, right, which I refer to as mutant powers. 141 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: Let's think of them as like X men. Uh So, so, 142 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: like maybe you've got a particular bacteria that's immune to 143 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: anti biotics and that's its superpower, or maybe it can 144 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: make a toxin. Right, So we are altering those plasmids 145 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: so that they have different powers. Right, So rather than 146 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: the having a bacteria that can be resistant to antibiotics, 147 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: maybe we're changing it so that it produces insulin. Yeah, exactly. 148 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: I mean you can also think of it in terms 149 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: of it's like editing a paragraph and word. Yeah, so 150 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: you can take if you're given it. So you take 151 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: a paragraph out of any classic work in English literature, right, 152 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: take a paragraph from it. You can take some words 153 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: out of it. You can take a sentence out of it, 154 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: replace it with a sentence from another work. However, you're limited. 155 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: It has to be has to be the same language 156 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: for it to makes sense. Um, certain passages are not 157 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: going to work when just inserted into it. A certain 158 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: amount of thought has to go into it. Essentially, it 159 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: has to be closely related to the passage you took out. 160 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: But you can still change, you can tweak, you can 161 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: shift the meaning of that paragraph after you've done your 162 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: little copy and paste exercise. Yes, so genetic engineering is 163 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: kind of like WILLIAMS. Burrows cut up method, right, Yeah, 164 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. That that 165 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: is very apt as well, as we'll get into. Sometimes 166 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: it works, sometimes it doesn't. There's a lot of trial 167 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: and error, and given our current state of genetic engineering, 168 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: So then synthetic biology, which is what we're primarily talking 169 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: about here, is sort of like the next step in 170 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: this right, and that what we're aiming for with the 171 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: genetic engineering. Yeah, this is essentially like successful synthetic biology 172 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: via genetic engineering is to create that that that passage, 173 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: that paragraph that after you've you've tweaked it, it works 174 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: in a new way that benefits. So in short, we're 175 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: talking about the design and construction of biological modules, biological systems, 176 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,959 Speaker 1: and biological machines for useful purposes. So we're tweaking genomes, 177 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: tweaking genetic code to alter the biological results. Um, that 178 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: might mean tweaking the immunity of an ultimately even if 179 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: an if an individual be that an individual human in 180 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: the you know, in the future sense the word or 181 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: uh in a bacterium. It can also mean in doing 182 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: certain biological properties are altering the results of existing properties. 183 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: And there are a number of reasons to do this, 184 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: and not all of which have anything to do with 185 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: humans or human health. Or even even food that we eat. 186 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: Many are purely manufacturing, you know, in many are agricultural 187 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: as well. Um, but we're we're often talking about genetically 188 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: engineering bacteria to produce new products. Facteria already produce products, 189 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: but we can tweak them to make products that we want. Yeah, 190 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: and so the benefit here is usually this is cheaper, right, 191 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: and maybe better for the environment, depending on what are 192 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: our traditional method of producing these products is. Right, So, uh, 193 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: we'll talk about patrolling him later. But like, you've got 194 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: an example here about rose oil, right, Yeah, this is 195 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: one I had. I had never heard of this one, 196 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: and this example was brought up by Tom Knight on 197 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 1: the panel, who actually worked with this process. So this 198 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: involves rose oil, rose oils and important essential oil and perfuming. 199 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. You have to process a lot 200 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: of roses to extract it, and the process of extracting 201 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: and involves some pretty terrible chemicals, and then you have 202 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: to remove the human ourgen that's in there as well. 203 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: So it's costly, chemically a little bit gross all of this. 204 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: So we can spare ourselves and smell like roses exactly. Um, 205 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 1: but what if there was a better way, right, so 206 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: Night was contracted to engineer a yeast that produces rose 207 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: oil and did this by hitching the rose oil producing 208 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: genes uh from the rose to the east. In other words, 209 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: genetically engineering a yeast making yeast into a rose oil 210 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: making yeast. Yeah, and yeast seems to be a pretty 211 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: much go to thing for scientists when we're talking about 212 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: this genetic modification, right, like especially like the insulin stuff 213 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about later and and other things. Yeah, 214 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: the the kind of road has been bacteria and then 215 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: yeast and from them from there, you know, even more 216 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: complicated organisms. Uh. But but this is this thing with 217 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: the rose oil is interesting that rosin is actually two 218 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 1: hundred different chemicals it turns out, and different roses that 219 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: have different smells. So the pro process involves making individual 220 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: chemicals that you then would mix together to get the 221 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: desired smell. But the manufacturers here if those chemicals are 222 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: the yeast interesting So I'm I'm wondering if you can 223 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: get like one batch of yeast and you altered multiple 224 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: bacteria within the yeast, potentially two hundred so that they're 225 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: all producing the various chemicals, so it just smells like 226 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: roses who knows. Maybe I'm sure somebody out there knows, 227 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: but but it's this stuff is so complex, and I 228 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: think this is one of those science issues that like 229 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: we very easy gloss over when we're reading science news 230 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 1: or listening to reports in the media, especially on GMOs. Right, Like, 231 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: knowing the actual process, like how we do it, how 232 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 1: it works, I think breaks down the mystery of it 233 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: a little bit more so that we're able to think 234 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: a little clearer about the ethics of it. Yeah. I mean, 235 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: even for my own part, attending this panel kind of 236 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: brought me up to speed on a lot of the 237 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: techniques here, whereas in the past I've I've really kind 238 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: of retained this like childhood mad scientists understanding of it, 239 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: where I'm just like, oh, genetically engineered organisms, I instantly 240 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: think brundle fly and don't explore it a whole lot more. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 241 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: I immediately go to like the X Files conspiracy to 242 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: genetically modify human beings or so that like whatever they're 243 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: they're susceptible to a disease that bees are going to 244 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: sting us with or something, you know, like some kind 245 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: of sci fi mad science type thing. Yeah, uh uh, 246 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, for various reasons, like 247 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: it's not I don't want to like dispel the notion 248 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: that like there art unethical occurrences of biomedical or not biomedical, 249 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: but bioengineering. But you know, it's important to keep it 250 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: all in the context. So some of the basics of 251 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: how we do it, let's just you know, boil this down. 252 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: It's it's pretty interesting what we're already doing, what's already 253 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: out there, um and a lot of it revolves around 254 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: these standard blocks or bio bricks of genetic information. Now 255 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: previously the source material for these bio bricks, these blocks 256 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: was we got them from the smolts of spawning salmon. 257 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: But that's fascinating. Yeah, I wonder why. I wonder why 258 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: salmon There must be something about them that make it 259 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: particularly easy. Well, I mean, you had a farming environment, 260 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: so there are plenty of them, and then the smolts 261 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: are you know, their their their new young salmon that 262 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: are in this uh, this stage of rapid change. But 263 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: the problem here is that it meant that the pharmaceutical 264 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: companies that were using the smolts, they were dependent on 265 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: the salmon industry and their potential fluctuations in the salmon market. 266 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: So they developed the means to create synthetic DNA from 267 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: scratch to cut out the harvest entirely, so they don't 268 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: even have to use the natural DNA from these salmon anymore, Right, 269 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: they're just making it in a lab. Yeah, and we're 270 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: already the point where you can you can look up 271 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: a genetic recipe on the internet, you can print it out, 272 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: you can order the DNA you need to produce it. 273 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: And but then you have to move on to the 274 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: tricky part of putting the DNA back into an organism 275 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: and making it work, and the process of assembling the 276 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: DNA um prior to this point, prior to the sort 277 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: of you know, the Frankenstein moment of the life moment. 278 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: It's actually it's actually a lot like a printing scenarios. 279 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: If you have d you have DNA and powder form 280 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: and machine spits the chemicals out in descending order, and 281 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: at this point is just you know, unloving organic chemicals. 282 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: But it's the first step. Yeah, this is the this 283 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: is the sexy science news headline, and that at least 284 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: we tend to see a lot lately, right like that 285 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: comes across our desk and press release is like screaming, 286 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: please put me out there, talk about me, right, which 287 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: is like can you believe it? Like we can print life. Ah, 288 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: you know this like Victor Frankenstein stuff that you know, 289 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: it seems to attract reader attention or fear. Um. So 290 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: when you break it down though, like the bacteria that 291 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about here, they contain a single chromosome, and 292 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: this chromosome has all the information that they need to 293 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: survive and reproduce. Now, I want to go back to 294 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: what I said before around that there's the extra rings 295 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: of DNA called the plasmids. Those are the things that 296 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: were genetically altering. Uh. But we can't just make it 297 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: do anything, right. It's not like you can take yeast 298 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: and like turn it into i don't know, like titanium, right. Yeah. 299 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: Like again, think back to that analogy of taking a paragraph, 300 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: say at a moby dick, you can tweak it a lot. 301 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: But but if you tweet, how much can you tweak 302 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: it to make it not about whaling and make it 303 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: about you know, making love on a space stage exactly? Yeah. 304 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: And so one thing we're gonna bring up and it 305 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: is again like going to be like a ding ding 306 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: ding like danger. Term for listeners is E. Coli is 307 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: used a lot in this process. Uh. And for instance, 308 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: the coal i can only be used to make proteins. 309 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: So there's a limit to what we can do with this. 310 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: It's not like, uh, we found the Philosopher's stone and 311 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 1: we have the alchemy to just change one substance into another, right, 312 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: any any old substance. And there's four categories that we 313 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: use for applications with this. There's medical, energy, food, and environmental. Now, 314 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: food is the one that people usually get pretty worked 315 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: up about, but also the one that people are particularly 316 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: nervous about, at least in the sort of sci fi 317 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: mad scientists sense, is the human genome. Yes, wow, and 318 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about when we're talking about insulin, we're talking 319 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: about something that saves people's lives. Yeah, and uh, you know, 320 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: and this is actually insulin is a big deal. And 321 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: to to lay out just how we're using the technolog lergy, 322 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: the first biosynthetic insulin actually went on sale in nine 323 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: two and then yeah, and today about seventy of the 324 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: insulin sold worldwide is produced by engineered organisms, either E. 325 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: Coli or yeast. And it's just too safe, but cheaper 326 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: to make as as animal derived insulin, and it doesn't 327 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: depend on cows or picks. So I don't have experience 328 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: with insulin, but I have a friend who's severely diabetic 329 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: and has to, you know, use his insulin constantly. So 330 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: you diabetics out there, I'm curious if this is something 331 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: when you buy your insulin, if you're aware of if 332 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: you're buying synthetic, like, do they ask you do you 333 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 1: want synthetic or do you want animal based? Or if 334 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: it's just you don't really have a choice in the matter, 335 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: you just get whatever they give you at the pharmacy. 336 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: Why I would assume that, I mean, certainly, I know 337 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: a lot of people would would like who have to 338 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: take insulin, would want to make that like an ethical choice. Yeah, 339 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: like who's not to have pigs involved? So for instance, 340 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: my friend is is actually vegetarian, the one who is 341 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: diabetic as well. Yeah, so probably wouldn't want that. But 342 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: it seems that it is is pretty much saturated in 343 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: the market. Yeah, certainly here in the West. So from there, 344 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: where do we go from? Inclin, let's talk about just 345 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: one human chromosome chromosome eleven all right. This involves one 346 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: thirty five million based parts, so you're looking at a 347 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: price tag of again estimated four million, fifty thou dollars. 348 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: That's whatever. Yeah, we've got that that the show makes 349 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: that in like an episode, so we're fine. But yeah, 350 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: we are actually paid in in base. Yeah, it's the 351 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: true true story. We're only paid in DNA. Alright, So 352 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: from here, what have you wanted? What have you wanted 353 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: to do like the big step, the frankensta ship. What 354 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: if you wanted to create a synthetic human geno? We 355 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: would be talking hypothetically, We'll be talking about spending ninety 356 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: million dollars for three billion based parts. So that's how 357 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: calm X the human genome is when we take this 358 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: up to the full scale. Now, keep in mind this 359 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: sounds like science fiction, right, but I also want to 360 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: put a pin on this. Remember that the US government 361 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 1: has spent around four hundred and thirty million dollars already 362 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: on researching this kind of synthetic biology. Just since two 363 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: thousand and five. The UK has invested another hundred and 364 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: sixty millions, So this is something that's actively being worked 365 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: on and our money is being spent on it. In piles, 366 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: but also less than five percent of that money has 367 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: been spent to explore quote the ethical, legal, and social implications. 368 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: So okay, here we're like we're bleeding in a little 369 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: bit into that ethical area, right that well the US government, Yeah, 370 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: a little bit of that money is well is this okay? Right? Like, 371 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: uh do you remember this? Is? Like this always stands 372 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: out in my head and I might have brought it 373 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: up in the podcast before, but like clearly it must 374 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: have been over a decade ago during one of George W. 375 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: Bush's State of the Unions he mentioned, uh, like biomedical 376 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: engineering is being a bad thing and animal human hybrids 377 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: and in fact, you know what where it was I 378 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: think we talked at Joe and I talked about on 379 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: the X Files episode. Oh yeah, I do remember this 380 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: that yeah, like it was a ban on animal human hime. Yeah. 381 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: And at the time I was like, wait, is that 382 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: a that's a thing we need to be worried about, 383 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: like werewolves? Like what do we And and now it's like, well, okay, 384 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: like now I think I see this. It's like he's 385 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: looking at a line item somewhere in a daily report 386 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: and it's about this five percent about the ethical nature 387 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: of whatever they're doing here, right, and when I don't 388 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: know that it was necessarily in this particular field, but 389 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: you know some other government research that involved animal human genetics. 390 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: Well this also this is of course this is not 391 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: an area of really researched yet. But um, how much 392 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: of any given endeavor's budget needs to be applied to 393 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't mean to to, you know, underscore 394 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: the importance of it. I mean that was something that 395 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: came up in this talk a lot, and there are 396 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: discussions and there are a lot of procedures that are 397 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: in place to safeguard what they're doing and to keep 398 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,959 Speaker 1: ethics in mind. But how much does that end up costing? 399 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: Like it seems like it might be a little insane 400 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: to say, oh, if you're gonna spend two million dollars 401 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: on this bit of research, spend half of it or 402 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: even spend a fourth of it on ethical concern Because 403 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: there's some like like based formula that they teach you 404 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: in science school that's like, for every laboratory experiment you do, 405 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: twenty percent of the time has to be spent on 406 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: the ethical nature of this or something. Yeah, I mean, 407 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: I think it's only coming up here because of what 408 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about, because it's a genetic engineering I mean 409 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: that being said, certainly, history has shown us that that 410 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: scientific us and technological advancements often outpace our ability to 411 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: cope with the with with the ramifications on our life 412 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: and our and uh and our on our laws and 413 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: sometimes on our ethics. And also having read you and 414 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: I both having read many a science fiction horror story 415 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 1: where something goes horribly wrong in a laboratory accident. Uh, yeah, 416 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: of course, like I can, I can see why the 417 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: fear is there, right, Yeah, you don't see your Jurassic 418 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: Park would have been a very different novel had nothing 419 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: gone wrong. Alright, So you're probably wondering, Okay, what now 420 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: if you build this thing, you build this this synthetic 421 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: bit of information, how do you bring it to life? 422 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: How do you how do you summon the lightning and 423 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: get everything crackling? Well, all right, this is how it 424 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: goes down. And it may sound super simple, and this 425 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,479 Speaker 1: is this is the overview, but it also I think 426 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: demystifies what's going on here. So you have the segment 427 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: you want, you simply scoop out the old segment in 428 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: a living cell and you place in the new one. 429 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: Sounds pretty good, right, it's um Yeah, this was described 430 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: like a watermelon baller. Yeah. And this is this is 431 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: actually described by some of the experts on this panel 432 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: as being a kind of essentially learning by disassembly and reassembly. 433 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: It's it's like you know nothing about a car. You 434 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: bring the car in, you take parts out, take the 435 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: engine apart, try and put it back together and see 436 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: if it works. Yeah, and maybe you like, maybe you 437 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: put in like a nitrous attachment, like in those Fast 438 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: and the Furious movies. Yeah, and and that makes a 439 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: car faster. Yeah. In a way, genetic engineering creating synthetic 440 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: organisms is kind of like if you or I, not 441 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: being car people, were to try and install a nitros like, oh, yeah, 442 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: it's just as foreign to me. Yeah. I think it 443 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: would be interesting, you know, would be fascinating is to 444 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: get Scott from car stuff are our sister show here 445 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: about automobiles, and he knows a ton about cars, get 446 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: him to sit down with a genetic engineer and have 447 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: the two of them sort of comparing contrasted. Yeah, I 448 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: mean the with with the difference being that Scott may ultimately, 449 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: ultimately I believe he probably knows how a car works. 450 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: And one thing that was pointed out, I believe by 451 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: Tom Knight was that we don't necessarily understand how the 452 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: organism that we're tinkering with works in the broad sense. Again, 453 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: we are learning about it through disassembly and reassembly. But 454 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: essentially what happens is you you hook this stuff into 455 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: the cell and then it's just you see what happens. 456 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,120 Speaker 1: You essentially try and start the cards. If you don't, 457 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: there's no lightning involved, there's no you know, technique to say, ah, 458 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: come to life. It's more like watching and seeing if 459 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: the cell dies. If it dies, then it failed. If 460 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,239 Speaker 1: it but if it remains alive, and then certainly if 461 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: it reproduces, if the cell splits, etcetera, then you have 462 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: successfully booted up the cell. And that's the terminology they use. 463 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: They use a lot of um and and rightfully so 464 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: as we're going to discuss, they use a lot of 465 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: the same language that we use to describe data in technology. Yeah, 466 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: and that makes because it's there are a lot of 467 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: different disciplines involved here. And in fact, Tom Knight, the 468 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: technologist that I mentioned before, he got involved in the 469 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: synthetic biology. He was an electrical engineer at M I. 470 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: T H. So you know, he may be the one 471 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: that's bringing a lot of this language in, but certainly, 472 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: you know, we have to have a metaphor to understand 473 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: what we're doing, and oftentimes programming is isn't isn't easy 474 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: to go to? Yeah, absolutely, which brings us to all right, 475 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: so there's this crazy experiment. Craig Inventor I believe is 476 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: the one behind this, right, and this is like one 477 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: of the primary ones. So when you throw this out 478 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: at the audience, yeah, this was in a this is 479 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: an important first. So May two thousand and ten, Craig 480 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: Ventor's team became the first to successfully create what was 481 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: then described as synthetic life by synthesizing a very long 482 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: DNA molecule containing an entire bacterium genome and entered and 483 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: then introducing this into another cell. And he there's a 484 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: lot of crazy in details here. He seems like quite 485 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: a character. He actually added his own name to the 486 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: bacteria genome. This is like those Indo Chino jackets that 487 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: that we have talked about on the show before. You 488 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: can get like your name embroidered on the inside. He 489 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: just got it embroidered on the genome. Yeah, he did, 490 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: and then not to not to be undone. He also 491 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: later wrote a book in English. I believe you have 492 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: the title of this book here in your notes. I 493 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: don't have the title, actually, but I have some more 494 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: information about it. It's a It's a book that was 495 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: written by George Church and ed Regis about synthetic biology. 496 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 1: It's fifty three thousand words, as well as eleven images 497 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,719 Speaker 1: and a bonus computer program, all of which were encoded 498 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: unto the strands of DNA. So you can see now 499 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: why the APT metaphor language for using data storage and 500 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: data technology language works here. The crazy thing, too, is 501 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: bye bye. Incoing that in genetics, he essentially published the 502 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: thing seventy billion times and making it the most widely 503 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: published book in human history, outpacing the Bible, Moby Dick, 504 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: whatever you want to throw into into the race. He 505 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: just went ahead and wiped it out and all in 506 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: the area about the size of a fingernail. Yeah, And 507 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: it's like, um, like, I'm imagining that you've got some 508 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: bio organic David Cronenberg smartphone in the future that you're 509 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: able to slip the DNA vial into and it pulls 510 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: up like a kindle and you're able to read the 511 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: book off the kindle. Here's the crazy thing about this, 512 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: and this is another one of those like boom headlines. 513 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: Like I remember in our pitch meetings a couple of 514 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: weeks ago, somebody brought this up as like a story. 515 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: DNA is so dense that one gram of DNA can 516 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: theoretically store four hundred and fifty five billion gigabytes of data. 517 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: So think about this, four grams, four little grahams of 518 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: DNA could hold every piece of day to the world 519 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: produces in a year. So uh, it lasts longer than 520 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: your phone or your computer does too. It's it lasts 521 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 1: for three point five billion years. So if we can 522 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: figure this out, this is like an entirely new way 523 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: to transmit information and to store information. Right, Like we've 524 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: talked before about ways to store information as if society collapses, 525 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: right like like data storage might not work. Books would 526 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: get burned or books might be water logged or something 527 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: like that. And like one of the I think, if 528 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: I remember correctly, like one of the best ways to 529 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: do it is to like currently like etch uh information 530 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: into like these titanium like super dense, super strong metal cubes. 531 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: But like with this DNA thing, that wouldn't even be necessary. Uh, 532 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: but here's the thing, it's copying DNA. Copying the data 533 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: onto the DNA is currently very time consuming, prohibitively so. 534 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: And DNA storage technology it's still though, it's improving at 535 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: a pretty fast rate. So there's a lot of interesting 536 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: possibilities for a future. Like I said, maybe we'll have 537 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: you know, some David Cronenberg style like existence smartphones or 538 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: whatever that will be. There'll be half iPhone half I 539 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,479 Speaker 1: don't know, like little biological globule thing that we've been 540 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: sick DNA vials into. Not to jump out just to 541 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: sci fi considerations just yet, but uh, in all these 542 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: various scenarios where ancient um, you know, astronauts or some 543 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: sort of super advanced race creates life on Earth um 544 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: via a star trek or a Prometheus type of situation, Um, 545 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: I wonder has it ever been explored? And surely it has. 546 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: What about all the genetic information on Earth is just 547 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: an external hard drive for some race And maybe they're 548 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: not even storing useful stuff. Maybe they're just putting like 549 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: bootleg movies And yeah, well That's one of the things 550 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: that I was thinking about, right, is like, theoretically you 551 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: could do this to the DNA that exists in a 552 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: human being, right, And I mean, if it's just one 553 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: strand of DNA, I don't know how much havoc on 554 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: that wreck how how how much information can you code 555 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: into a paragraph from Moby Dick without without destroying its 556 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: ability to function as a paragraph in the narrative? Absolutely? Yeah, 557 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: but of course we're a long ways away from that 558 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: right now. Synthesizing DNA is a difficult and error prone endeavor. Yeah. 559 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: So there's this pretty in depth long form article in 560 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: the New York Times that came out let's see, like 561 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. Actually, yeah, there's been a 562 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: lot of really cool recent reporting on this. I mean, 563 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: this is one of those episodes we probably will not 564 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: run a repeat off because everything will be different change. Yeah. Uh, 565 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: And it's I just want to dive in and out 566 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: of it a little bit because it provides some more 567 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: basic information, especially in respect to the whole human genome thing. 568 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: So this ability that we're talking about of using chemicals 569 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: to manufact acture human chromosomes, it's fascinating, but It's got 570 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: people pretty ethically nervous, right, because we could end up 571 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: creating human beings without biological parents. That's the thing that 572 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: people get really twitchy about, right, is like we've mapped 573 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: the human genome. What if we write the human genome? 574 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: What does that mean? You know? Like these these I'm 575 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: thinking of like sci fi scenarios, like replicants from Blade 576 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: Runner or something like that. Yeah, so people are terrified 577 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: at this happening. So we're talking about following up on 578 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: that work that the Human Genome Project did, being able 579 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: to read the sequence of three billion chemical letters in 580 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: d NA now rather than read that, this new project, 581 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: which I believe is associated with George Church, is proposing 582 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: that we would write it. Uh. And it sounds, like 583 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: I said earlier, it sounds like an X Files conspiracy. Right, 584 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: we'll we'll like breed perfect soldiers, or maybe we'll copy people, right, 585 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: we'll make clones of people or something like that. So 586 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: there's all sorts of spooky ramafic casions. But Church, like 587 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: I said earlier, he wants to clarify this isn't about 588 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: creating people. He's not mad scientist. He's just talking about 589 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: creating a couple of cells here, and it would be 590 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: applied to all kinds of genomes plants, animals, and microbes. 591 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: So he's not you know, this is when when I 592 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: read about how there were some people in the community 593 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: who were like, oh, we don't want to have anything 594 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: to do with that. Therefore we're not going to attend 595 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: his event where he's talking about this. Uh, you know, 596 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: it's unethical. And he was like who whoa, whoa, whoa whoa, 597 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: Like like, calm down, this is this is all I'm proposing. 598 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: Here's the thing. We're already doing this with the East, 599 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: as we talked about earlier. Remember, so you know, we 600 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: add numerous genes to the East, it turns into a 601 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: production process that generates whatever flavorings, fragrances like the rose oil, insulin, 602 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: all these things. Also keep in mind synthesizing DNA is 603 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: not easy. We can currently only make strands with two 604 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: hundred based pay airs. In comparison, a single gene is 605 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: hundreds to thousands of base pairs long. And if we're 606 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: gonna synthesize those, what you have to end up doing, 607 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: like like for a project like maybe the human genome thing, 608 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: you have to splice together multiples of the two hundred 609 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: units segments. So we're not there yet, you know. I 610 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: mean it's like like literally Frankenstein is like sewing together 611 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 1: all these base pairs to make it work. But there's 612 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: breakthroughs coming like like Ventor and then the stuff that 613 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: he was doing, uh, and he copied in existing genome 614 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: that was five hundred thousand base pairs long. He didn't 615 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: create a new one. Yeast alone has twelve million base 616 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: pairs and the human genome is two hundred times larger 617 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: than that. So I mean we're talking about like just 618 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: a prohibitively large amount of work until we get past that. 619 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: Not insurmountable by anything. No, I mean, it could be done, sure, 620 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: but it's you know, it's not as easy as I 621 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: think some of the reports like to make it out 622 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: to be. Right where we're not going to go from 623 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 1: tinkering with the yeast to making supermutants in the blink 624 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: of an eye. Yeah, exactly. All right, on that note, 625 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 1: on the super mutant note, we're gonna take a quick 626 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: break and when we come back, we're going to get 627 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: into not only yeast but East two point Oh. All right, 628 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: we're back. So we talked about creating synthetic bacteria. Yeah, 629 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: and the importance of yeast to this whole process. Now, 630 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: this isn't your your father's East, this is Yeast two 631 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: point oh. Yeah. That's the current goal kind of shared 632 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: goals of various labs that are working on the Yeast 633 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: two point oh project. And there's a website for East 634 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: two point oh. You can look it up and we'll 635 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: try to link to an a landing page for this episode. 636 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: But essentially we're talking about continuing to alter parts of 637 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: the yeast to to genetically engineer the east until it 638 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: becomes something completely new. So it's a gradual thing, like 639 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna keep tweaking that paragraph in Moby Dick until 640 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: it is a completely new paragraph. Um. And it's important. 641 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: It's an important step as well, not only because you know, 642 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: yeats has already become such a useful organism for our 643 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: synthetic biological needs, but it's also uh U carry out. 644 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: It's more complex, it's more like us higher cells. We're 645 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: talking twelve million based pairs of DNA here and then 646 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,879 Speaker 1: yeast also have sex, so they are again it's it's 647 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: a more a more human model for us to work 648 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: with and it's also I would say, like most people 649 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: don't have ethical concerns about experimenting on yeast that they 650 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,800 Speaker 1: would like maybe I don't know, like experimenting on ferrets 651 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: or something like that. Right. Actually, at the talk that 652 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: I attended, Crow which tried to sort of he was 653 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: really poking a lot of sticks at him, trying to 654 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, get him to to um, you know, to 655 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: open up. And so he's asking him about like, do 656 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: you feel do you feel weird? Do you feel immoral 657 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: when you tinker with the yeast? And everyone was like, no, 658 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: not not at the yeast is uh, it is not 659 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: a higher organism and it's not like even messing with 660 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: a labyrin right. Yeah. Yeah, maybe they're using like their 661 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: grandmother's sour dough starter or something that's in their friend. Yes, 662 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: something that's right. Some people are very attached to their 663 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: their used in that regard. Now, in all of these discussions, 664 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: one of the things that always comes up is sort 665 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: of the Jurassic Park model, right, or just sort of 666 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: your basic mad signs, because what it always happens, Yeah, 667 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: you create something in the lab and then it goes wrong. 668 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: It goes wrong, it breaks out of the lab. It 669 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 1: starts rampaging through the city. So, especially when you read 670 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: reports about tinkered ecoli, and certainly people have all these 671 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: negative ideas in their head about what cool I all. 672 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: You combine the words E coli and GMO and a 673 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: headline and people are going to freak out. Yeah, people 674 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: grow concerned. So it's important to note that there are 675 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: a number of safety factors involved here. One of the 676 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: biggest is that most lab organisms utilize in these experiments 677 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: are pretty fragile, and they're gonna be eaten or they're 678 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: gonna just gonna die if they venture into the side world. 679 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: But for that very reason that fragility, labs have to 680 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: safeguard their experiments against viral infections in the lab. Less 681 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: a virus wipe out operations inside your lab that can 682 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: essentially put you out of operation for a couple of 683 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: years even. And here's some more things to consider about this, Right, So, 684 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: who's doing this Corporations For the most part, it's a 685 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 1: companies that are developing these new bacteria. Why so they 686 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: can produce products like rose oil or insulin or whatever, right, 687 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: sell it on the market. Uh, anyone who wants to 688 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,399 Speaker 1: use those they have to pay a fee. Right, It's 689 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: sort of like, uh, if you want to download an 690 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: MP three file of a song, but if you play 691 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: that song while you're butchering your family with an axe 692 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: or something, the musicians who wrote the song aren't responsible, right, Like, 693 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: just because they created the song, it's not their fault 694 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: that you did that. So subsequently, the law actually says 695 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,399 Speaker 1: these corporations are not responsible if something bad happens while 696 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,879 Speaker 1: you're are using the organism. So that's important to keep 697 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: in mind as well. It's another like bend on the 698 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: Jurassic Park thing, right like if the if those eggs 699 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 1: get out of that Jurassic World lab, man, those altered 700 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: those altered eggs, and there's some tyrannosaur rampaging around. L 701 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,439 Speaker 1: A Hey, it's not their fault, all right. So you're 702 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 1: using a coli in the lab, yea. You have a 703 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of money invested in this project. 704 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: Whatever you're tinkering with the E coli to do the 705 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: last thing you wanted the virus to wipe out that 706 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: that ecoli that you're working on in the lab environment. 707 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: So you're already you know, what do you do? So 708 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: you're already engineering the genetics you're already tinkering with the 709 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: genetics with the A. Coli. Why don't you just go 710 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: ahead and make that ecoli virus resistant. That indeed is 711 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: exactly what we're doing. Yeah, uh, now a refresher on E. Coli. 712 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: So we hear A cola and we all go right, 713 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: but uh, let's just do like a basic breakdown here. 714 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 1: A Cola is a bacterium, and it most naturally occurs 715 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: in strains that are totally harmless. It breeds well in 716 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: lab conditions, which is why it's used in experiments in biosynthesis. 717 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: There's a lot of different strains of it, only a 718 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: few of them are harmful. Some even live inside the 719 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: human body, and they keep the other harmful bacteria in 720 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: our bodies under control, so they even help manufacture vitamin 721 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: K in our body. I feel like I feel like 722 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: equal eyes, like the pit bulls of the bacteria world, 723 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,359 Speaker 1: Like they've got you hear that. You hear that word 724 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 1: and you go, oh, that's bad, But like they do 725 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: good things and they're like they're kind of like gentle 726 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: at heart, equal if. Yeah, they tend to only splash 727 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: the front page of the newspaper or at the top 728 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: of the website though when they're involved in something. But yeah, 729 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: exactly right, Like of course, like if you get E. 730 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: Coal I poisoning, that's a totally different matter. Now it 731 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: can be engineered to produce acrylic acid. In fact, this 732 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: is what we use in a lot of our paints 733 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: and adhesive is acrylic acid produced from whole ie. That's 734 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: generating seventy less carbon dioxide emissions than when we make 735 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: it from petroleum. So that's an interesting thing. Like you 736 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,280 Speaker 1: get into the ethics of it, like, oh, you shouldn't 737 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: be tinkering around with the cool i. What if it 738 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 1: gets out of the lab and whatever. Right, But at 739 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,479 Speaker 1: the same time, like we're protecting the environment by using 740 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: this a coole i to make acrylic paints. Indeed, there's 741 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: an environmental benefit here. Yeah, And you can use it 742 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: to manufacture a lot more than just paint. You can 743 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: do bio fuels with it, hemoglobin, and possibly you can 744 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: even use it as a delivery mechanism for anti cancer drugs. 745 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,840 Speaker 1: And as we already mentioned, genetically engineered E. Coli to 746 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: use to make human insulin. So that's important to write. 747 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: That saves lives. It's just as safe as the animal 748 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: derived insulin and it's cheaper to make. But again, people, 749 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 1: you know, they're not comfortable with the whole playing god 750 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,719 Speaker 1: aspect of the science. It freaks them out a little bit. 751 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 1: So there's an inclination towards that sci fi horror story 752 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: set up. Is it going to get a la? What 753 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: will it do to our environment? So that's why they 754 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: put in safety switches into this when they're genetically engineering them. 755 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: And this is very Jurassic Park as well, right, like, 756 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,479 Speaker 1: like we put the safety switch in there, they can't breed. 757 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: But wait a minute, they're breeding, right, like that kind 758 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: of thing. But they do, uh, they make it so 759 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 1: that this cool I can't survive outside of the lab 760 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: without a particular nutrient, that's right. The example I like 761 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,399 Speaker 1: to use in thinking of this is Snake Bliskin from 762 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: Escape from New York. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So Snake is 763 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: a dangerous dude and you want to use him, but 764 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 1: you don't. You're about to let him out, let him 765 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: loose in the world. You need him to report back, 766 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: you need him to do his job. So they put 767 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: a little poison capsule in him. So he so he's uh, 768 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: he's compromised. He has to come back if he wants 769 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: that cure, so that Yeah, it's a similar thing here. 770 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: They essentially um make the ecoli addicted to a specific 771 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,800 Speaker 1: lab chemical and this it's known as BPA V I 772 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: P A and s amino. It's an amino acid. And 773 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:05,959 Speaker 1: it's not gonna find it's fixed out in the world. 774 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: If it goes out there and it doesn't come back, 775 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 1: it's gonna die. And then additionally here um, again we 776 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: keep coming back to Frankenstein. I'm sure scientists hate it. 777 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,879 Speaker 1: They put Mary Shelley hangs over them like a specter. Yeah, 778 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: cast along shadow. But it's uh. Um. But just as 779 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: Victor Frankenstein was horrified at the possibility of his creation reproducing, uh, 780 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,959 Speaker 1: this may not be a problem for us. Uh. Dr 781 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: Church has said that because these synthetic organisms have a 782 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: unique genetic code quote it's almost a new kingdom of life, 783 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: they would have trouble exchanging genetic material with any other 784 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: life form. Yeah, so okay, another sci fi or fantasy 785 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,439 Speaker 1: metaphor here. Then it's a Dr Muro's island, right. Oh yeah, 786 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 1: Like that's one of the big problems I think is 787 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: if I remember correctly from the it's been a while, 788 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: but that horrible movie with Marlon Brendan, and I think 789 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,399 Speaker 1: that they had breeding issues, like he purposely created these 790 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: things so that they couldn't breed without his permission. Well, 791 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,760 Speaker 1: and that's it seems to be kind of what's happening 792 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,879 Speaker 1: here now. In this talk, Drew Indie had his own 793 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 1: UM example. He he described it as more of a 794 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: new language and without a translator, the two kingdoms here 795 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: can never converge UM, which which again kind of gets 796 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: back into some of our linguistic examples who are making earlier. 797 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: So I think like it's fair to say that, you know, 798 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,719 Speaker 1: at least the scientists that we're talking about here are 799 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: taking the steps necessary to make sure that this is 800 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 1: a safe process. Seems like they're doing it for altruistic 801 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: reasons because a lot of these processes whatever, they're either 802 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: cheaper than regular processes or they're better for the environment, 803 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,239 Speaker 1: so on. Right, It's not like we're just doing this 804 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,680 Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah. Now that being said, certainly, oversight 805 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: is important continued. I think it's it's essential, and it's 806 00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: great that that everyone involved here they seem to be 807 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 1: asking these quests and they're having meetings about it there 808 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: and the press is involved and and are able to 809 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 1: to look over their shoulders to a limited extent and 810 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 1: and see what's going on and keep everyone in the 811 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: conversation as long as the conversation keeps going and there's 812 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,960 Speaker 1: a certain amount of openness, have some transparency to hopefully 813 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: have the cigarettes smoking man in charge of things. Yeah. Um, 814 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,759 Speaker 1: that all that being said, you know, and if the 815 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: trajectory remains pure, if you will, we're looking at some 816 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: really amazing possible future advancements um and a few of 817 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: these specifically were mentioned in the talk I attended. UH. 818 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: For instance, probiotic yeast that functions as a diagnosis platform, 819 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 1: so that being kind of like a medical technology application, 820 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 1: engineered microbes that alter body odor on demand. That could 821 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: be pretty exciting, especially I'm not sure how that would 822 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 1: exactly work. Maybe you have some sort of interface and 823 00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: you can you know, if you're threatened and skunk it out, 824 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: there's an app for that. You hit the button on 825 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,760 Speaker 1: your app, it makes you smells like smell like roses. 826 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 1: You hit another button, it makes you smell like a skunk. Um. 827 00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,799 Speaker 1: Another one the ability to manage mood and health via 828 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: mood and health affecting bacteria. This one really um made 829 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:19,879 Speaker 1: me think because we've had so many I think we've 830 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: even discussed on the show here, like the how much 831 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 1: more we're learning about the the the role that our 832 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 1: our gut bacteria plays in our mental health yea, and yeah, 833 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: just how we think how our mood rolls out. And 834 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,239 Speaker 1: so if we're able to just the tinkering with bacteria level, 835 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: if we could, if we can tinker with our gut bacteria, uh, 836 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 1: genetically in a way that benefits the greater expression of 837 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,719 Speaker 1: the organism. Uh, I mean, that's pretty mind blowing. You know, 838 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,759 Speaker 1: I just realized where this totally ties back to the 839 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,560 Speaker 1: cyborg episode that we did. We are absolutely talking about 840 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: making cyborgs that's genetically modified ones. In addition to that, 841 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,520 Speaker 1: we're also talking about out the possibility of making cell 842 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 1: lines to resist cancer, to serve additional industrial purposes as well, 843 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: humanized animals for organs and tissue. That's one that probably 844 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,239 Speaker 1: um settled some people's alarms. So I'm guessing that this 845 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: is sort of like you take a fox and you 846 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 1: set it up so that it grows human lungs and 847 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,360 Speaker 1: you can take the lungs out of the fox or 848 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:22,960 Speaker 1: something like. Yeah, that sort of thing, or you know, 849 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: pigs or other live livestock organisms or even like, um, 850 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,240 Speaker 1: do you remember that terrible movie The Island with Scarlett 851 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,560 Speaker 1: Johnson and Ewain McGregor. I've never seen. I've seen some 852 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 1: of the films that was based on, such as Parts 853 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: the Clonus Horror. Okay, yeah, so you get the premise 854 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,480 Speaker 1: right that they like they basically grow clones of you 855 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,319 Speaker 1: solely so that in case, you know, one of your 856 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,400 Speaker 1: organs breaks down, they just yank it out of the 857 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,719 Speaker 1: clone of you. But the you know the problem is 858 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,080 Speaker 1: that the clones, but are essential in human beings, are 859 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: walking around and have identities of their own. Yeah. But 860 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: the cool thing about this is you could essentially have 861 00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,160 Speaker 1: the same scenario, but without the weirdness of and horror 862 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,520 Speaker 1: of having human clones. You could grow you know, human 863 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: donor hearts and pig. I mean, I like the idea. 864 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: I like the idea of individuals who need organs having 865 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 1: the ability to get them without having to you know, 866 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,399 Speaker 1: you know, wait out there, their lives on a list. 867 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,400 Speaker 1: What if we grew human organs in a pig and 868 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 1: then ate that pig. M Now you're getting into that 869 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,560 Speaker 1: gray area. Yeah, and I'm the vegetarian on the show. 870 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,239 Speaker 1: But like, m I wonder what like a human heart 871 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,800 Speaker 1: bacon tastes Like what what if it was humanized with 872 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,520 Speaker 1: you Hannibal genetics your DNA. So since we're eating part 873 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: out of a pig, Yeah, yeah, Hannibal would have a 874 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,520 Speaker 1: want to play date with this. And then finally, this 875 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,439 Speaker 1: is one that Church specifically brought up in the talk 876 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,880 Speaker 1: HIV resistance quote for the entire population. Now that sounds 877 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 1: like a good thing. Yeah, I mean it's it's I 878 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,360 Speaker 1: think it's difficult to argue with that that level of 879 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: of power essentially, um, Yeah, the ability to to wipe 880 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 1: out human diseases in in some cases. But of course 881 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,600 Speaker 1: this all brings us down to some of the bigger questions, 882 00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:17,480 Speaker 1: like what happens if we create a truly synthetic human um. 883 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,360 Speaker 1: You know, even though we've been making synthetic genomes for 884 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 1: for a decade, we've been using mammal cells for manufacturing 885 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,360 Speaker 1: of what, have we made a synthetic being and not 886 00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:31,160 Speaker 1: just to sell um? Certainly there are a number of 887 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,040 Speaker 1: lingering concerns there. Would you have would you have two 888 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 1: kinds of humans in the in the way that we're 889 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,920 Speaker 1: essentially talking about two kingdoms of life, and knowing the 890 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 1: tendencies of the human race, I suspect that we would 891 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,920 Speaker 1: somehow create this turn the synthetics into some kind of minority, 892 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,160 Speaker 1: right yeah, or we would we be the minority, maybe 893 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,600 Speaker 1: they would be the class. But I mean, these are 894 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,799 Speaker 1: not these are not ridiculous questions to ask as we're 895 00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,560 Speaker 1: looking when we look at where we are with the 896 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,240 Speaker 1: science now and envision where it's taking us in the future. 897 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,680 Speaker 1: And as I believe it was Drew Indie brought up 898 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,880 Speaker 1: in this, you know, we're already engaging in levels of this, 899 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,000 Speaker 1: so you may have you know, you're having the genetics 900 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,360 Speaker 1: of an unborn child screened to see you you know 901 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,279 Speaker 1: what the what the prognosis is for that child, and 902 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,600 Speaker 1: you have to make decisions based on that. Um then 903 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,920 Speaker 1: what the next logical step is tinkering with that genetics. 904 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,719 Speaker 1: We actually um talked about that as a scenario in 905 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,560 Speaker 1: our Cyborg episode and a future Listener Male episode. I 906 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,880 Speaker 1: want to read this. One of our listeners wrote in 907 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,280 Speaker 1: about how he had a similar experience with his son's 908 00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,440 Speaker 1: birth and they did have to do I don't think 909 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,080 Speaker 1: it was genetic tinkering, but they had to do sort 910 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,840 Speaker 1: of a pre birth surgery on his son. Yeah, so 911 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,360 Speaker 1: I mean we're already at the point where we're you know, 912 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,840 Speaker 1: we're screening and then and then the next step is 913 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,359 Speaker 1: is actually tinkering with it a little bit. And then 914 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,520 Speaker 1: from there do we what's what is the what's wrong 915 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: then with writing the code of tinkering with it? Even more? 916 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,560 Speaker 1: If we're talking about, you know, the best possible expression 917 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,239 Speaker 1: of human life, Yeah, what if we get into a 918 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,880 Speaker 1: scenario where all right, so here, let's let's pitch some 919 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,400 Speaker 1: like potential like uh scenarios, and and I don't think 920 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:19,760 Speaker 1: that you and I are going to have the answers 921 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,640 Speaker 1: to these, but let me let me throw it out here. 922 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,880 Speaker 1: Let's say, uh, there's a disease and it's killing off 923 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,400 Speaker 1: the whole human race. It's like a black plague all 924 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,040 Speaker 1: over again, like sort of like selfie sticks, Yeah, like those, 925 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,680 Speaker 1: and we make the only the only way to ensure 926 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: that the human race survives is to make synthetic humans 927 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,600 Speaker 1: that are resistant to that We're not naturally resistant to 928 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,400 Speaker 1: this disease. But the synthetic ones would be do we 929 00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,040 Speaker 1: do it? Are they still human beings? If they're the 930 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,640 Speaker 1: only ones left? Is that the human race? Yeah, I 931 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,160 Speaker 1: would think so, I mean, we've already it's not like 932 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: humans are existing in a natural state anymore anyway. I 933 00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:01,720 Speaker 1: mean we we've already we we've already altered our evolutionary journey, 934 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,319 Speaker 1: you know. So this is just another way to technologically 935 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,200 Speaker 1: augmented and and ultimately this scenario we'll be talking about 936 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,400 Speaker 1: the long term survival of the human race. So go 937 00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,279 Speaker 1: for it, push you go on that, I would say. 938 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,320 Speaker 1: And then you know, like one of the one of 939 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:16,759 Speaker 1: the things that we looked at was sort of like 940 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:21,719 Speaker 1: a teaching resource for genetic engineering teachers sort of the 941 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,640 Speaker 1: basics to ask their students to think about the ethics 942 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,880 Speaker 1: of it, and they say things like would you feed 943 00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:35,319 Speaker 1: genetically modified organisms to your dog? Not alive? Rights? That's 944 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,760 Speaker 1: what you think immediately is like there's a genetically modified rabbit, 945 00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,759 Speaker 1: you know, I think they mean like dog food or 946 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:49,120 Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, or like is it or how 947 00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,560 Speaker 1: about this, Like what happens if those get out into 948 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,200 Speaker 1: the environment. Like again, like use the dog food analogy. 949 00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,759 Speaker 1: There's some kind of dog food it's genetically modified. Uh, 950 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,760 Speaker 1: what happens if dog food gets out into the world 951 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,279 Speaker 1: and is eaten by I don't know, like a uh 952 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:07,840 Speaker 1: an animal in your backyard or something like that. You know, 953 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,920 Speaker 1: what does that do? Yeah, I mean we've we've discussed 954 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,080 Speaker 1: some of the safeguards in place here, but certainly we 955 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,520 Speaker 1: can look to our history was just the spread of 956 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,520 Speaker 1: of the invasive organisms around the world and the harm 957 00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,759 Speaker 1: that there, and you know, we can't help it extrapolate 958 00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,560 Speaker 1: what some of the potential problems could be which genetically 959 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,040 Speaker 1: modified organisms And the one, the one that scares me 960 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:30,560 Speaker 1: the most, this is the this is the one that 961 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,000 Speaker 1: I actually have a problem with. I'm less concerned about, 962 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,799 Speaker 1: at least for right now, about the the stuff getting 963 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,480 Speaker 1: out of the laboratory or the you know, the effects 964 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,759 Speaker 1: of the food that we're eating, things like that. What 965 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,960 Speaker 1: I'm more worried about is who should own these and 966 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,920 Speaker 1: how far does the responsibility that they have as owners 967 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,160 Speaker 1: of these go in a in a legal and ethical sense. Right, 968 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,279 Speaker 1: And again comes back to Blade Runner, right, like, there's 969 00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:02,880 Speaker 1: that corporation that's made the rep kents, Like, what's their responsibility? 970 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,960 Speaker 1: M Indeed, in that movie, apparently it's to hire Harrison 971 00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,560 Speaker 1: Ford to hunt them down. But I don't know. I 972 00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,040 Speaker 1: mean like that that's like the furthest end of it, right, 973 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,600 Speaker 1: when you've you've like written the genome to create more 974 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,840 Speaker 1: than human beings. But like when it comes to so 975 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,120 Speaker 1: let's take the Jurassic Park example, right, Like you've genetically 976 00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,839 Speaker 1: engineered a dinosaur. You think that you've set it up 977 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,239 Speaker 1: so that the dinosaur can't leave Jurassic Park because it 978 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,600 Speaker 1: has to get that particular amino acid, right, But then 979 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:43,279 Speaker 1: somehow or another, through the biology of these dinosaurs, life 980 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,960 Speaker 1: finds a way they're able to breathe, they're able to 981 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,759 Speaker 1: get out of the park. Or who's responsible for that? 982 00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,640 Speaker 1: Who goes and catches the dinosaur? Well, the obvious answer 983 00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: here is that a you need a widely mercenary fails 984 00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,880 Speaker 1: and then a scientist who pulled it off. Yeah, and 985 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,239 Speaker 1: one person who says clever girl, Yeah, yeah, you gotta 986 00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,719 Speaker 1: have it. Um. I do want to close with the 987 00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,279 Speaker 1: more optimistic spin on all of this, and this is 988 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 1: one that that that drew Indie through out there and 989 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,839 Speaker 1: the talk. You know, there's a tendency to to think 990 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,320 Speaker 1: about especially the industrial applications here and think of it 991 00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:21,160 Speaker 1: as industrializing biology. And I think that's accurate to a 992 00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,600 Speaker 1: certain extent. You know, you're taking an organism and making 993 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,120 Speaker 1: it do the thing you want, uh for your benefit, 994 00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,840 Speaker 1: which is also something that humans have done throughout history 995 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:33,560 Speaker 1: just through agriculture. But uh, it's also there's also a 996 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,960 Speaker 1: big case to be made for biologizing industry and in 997 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,160 Speaker 1: doing so, just across the board, helping to create a 998 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:45,719 Speaker 1: more sustainable world, you know, by by by by making 999 00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,320 Speaker 1: your manufacturing and your industrialization more in keeping with natural 1000 00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,920 Speaker 1: processes and and not necessarily this you know, grungy factory 1001 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,759 Speaker 1: on the hill that is polluting the environment around it. 1002 00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:01,319 Speaker 1: That's the difference between making paint with troleum versus making 1003 00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 1: paint with a cool I. Yeah, so anyway, all of 1004 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,680 Speaker 1: this is food for thought. You know, we don't have 1005 00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:12,480 Speaker 1: any answers about the long term possibilities here or even 1006 00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,440 Speaker 1: some of the short term concerns, but in this episode 1007 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,719 Speaker 1: we we wanted to demystify the process a little bit 1008 00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,520 Speaker 1: as well as discussed some of the uh that the 1009 00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,360 Speaker 1: really big and you know, ultimately mind blowing ideas and 1010 00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,080 Speaker 1: possibilities involved. Yeah. So if you out there, obviously i'm 1011 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,640 Speaker 1: I'm I'm imagining already the the emails coming in, or 1012 00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,880 Speaker 1: the tweets or the Facebook messages about GMOs and what 1013 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,000 Speaker 1: we did or did not cover. But you know, let 1014 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,200 Speaker 1: us know what you think, let us know what we 1015 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,279 Speaker 1: might cover in the future. Uh. And there's lots of 1016 00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,560 Speaker 1: ways to do that, right, I mean I mentioned some 1017 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:50,520 Speaker 1: of them, but we've got the social media platforms galore, Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, 1018 00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:54,520 Speaker 1: Instagram where all of those as blow the mind, that's right. 1019 00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:55,840 Speaker 1: And you can also check us out of stuff to 1020 00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,120 Speaker 1: blow your mind dot com of course. And hey, wherever 1021 00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:03,240 Speaker 1: you listen to us, be at us, Spotify, iTunes, wherever. 1022 00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,520 Speaker 1: If there's a way to rate us, give us a 1023 00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:07,520 Speaker 1: good rating. If there's a review us, give us a 1024 00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:11,600 Speaker 1: good review. That is a wonderful way to support this podcast, uh, 1025 00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,000 Speaker 1: without spending any money, especially because we're relatively new to 1026 00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,800 Speaker 1: Google Play and Spotify, so it would be great if 1027 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,120 Speaker 1: we could get more listeners on those platforms. So one 1028 00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,040 Speaker 1: last thing, if you want to write us directly send 1029 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,040 Speaker 1: that mail to blow the mind at how stuff works 1030 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:39,320 Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and fathands of other topics. 1031 00:57:39,800 --> 00:58:01,040 Speaker 1: How stuff Works dot com. My b