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Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Software Up Radio, Special Operations, military news and

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Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys and the community. Hello and everyone,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Software Radio, Software Radio One Time on Target.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host this morning, Steve BELSTRAI were joined today

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Speaker 1: by a very special guest, Mark Rosengard, who comes from

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Speaker 1: my neck of the woods up in Massachusetts. So prior

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Speaker 1: to us coming on the air, we were talking about hockey. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, we had to stop the hockey talk because

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Speaker 1: Mark was well, he's had a very varied and interesting career.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get into all that and special operations, but

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Speaker 1: specifically today we're gonna talk about UH Task Force Dagger

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Speaker 1: in the early days of the war in Afghanistan and

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Speaker 1: as it's winding down now. So we want to welcome

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Speaker 1: Mark to the podcast and we're gonna get into all that. Mark.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for taking the time this morning. How you doing great, Steve. Then,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you're reaching out to ask me to join

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Speaker 1: the one and everybody. I hope that what we have

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Speaker 1: to talk about will be interesting to everyone on the Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it will, and uh, you know, fill in

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Speaker 1: our listeners a little bit about your career, and you

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Speaker 1: had a pretty varied and interesting career of your own. Sure.

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Speaker 1: I came into the service when I graduated from school

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Speaker 1: in nineteen. I was an instrument to begin with, and

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Speaker 1: took a first assignment down at Fort Stewart uh and

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Speaker 1: chose that it was lucky enough to get what I

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Speaker 1: what I what. I picked that I wanted to try

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Speaker 1: to h to get a sign to the to the

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Speaker 1: to the range of Retalian was then th e V

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Speaker 1: Range of Retalion at that time, uh and and I

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Speaker 1: thought that that was a neat place to try to

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Speaker 1: serve and worked out okay for me. I made it,

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Speaker 1: made it through some time in the division and then

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Speaker 1: was I picked to be apatoon leader up at the

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Speaker 1: Hunter R B F Field. I spent some time there

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Speaker 1: in one S five uh and and and learned a lot.

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Speaker 1: Uh I finished my my lieutenancy and and uh and

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Speaker 1: finished my time that I owed back to the Army

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Speaker 1: for my r OTC scholarship and was making my decision

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Speaker 1: as to what I wanted to do when I grew

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Speaker 1: up uh and the Army said, well, you know, we

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Speaker 1: were were aware of the fact that that you have

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Speaker 1: some foreign language capability just showing up. We don't need

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Speaker 1: to send you the language school. So we'd be wanting

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Speaker 1: to know if you'd be interested in trying to be

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Speaker 1: a Green Beret. And then you could be back at

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Speaker 1: Fort Devon's to be back close to home where you

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Speaker 1: and I are from. And that just sounded like too

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Speaker 1: good a deal to be true. Uh And and I

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Speaker 1: accepted that offer. Had uh. I actually enjoyed the the

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Speaker 1: Q course, despite its its moments of of of of

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Speaker 1: trying challenge, and went on to the Tenth Group and

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Speaker 1: loved that mission and decided to stay in uh in

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Speaker 1: in in Special Forces as much as I could, but

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Speaker 1: in in in those days it was before the branch existed.

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Speaker 1: I I I finished my tour as a as A

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Speaker 1: as a team leader and a and a and a

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Speaker 1: group staff officer, and had to go back and compete

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Speaker 1: with my infantry peers. Uh and spent some time in

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Speaker 1: the in the in the Mecca, I sepatry at Fort

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Speaker 1: Cross in Colorado, which turned out to, as I think

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Speaker 1: most folks will know, the future home of the Tenth Group.

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Speaker 1: So I spent a lot of time in Colorado as

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Speaker 1: a result. But once I finished that time at UH

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Speaker 1: in in in the in the infantry, where I had

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Speaker 1: the privilege of commanding uh, you know, a mechanized company

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Speaker 1: and and had some good and honest operations officer staff time,

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Speaker 1: which from which I learned a lot. Came back to

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Speaker 1: to to Special Forces after that, and was was with

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Speaker 1: a couple of exceptions, pretty much predominantly in tenth Group,

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Speaker 1: but a few other assignments along the way. UH have

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Speaker 1: a chance to serve in in Panama for a little while,

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Speaker 1: served in the d C area in a in a

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Speaker 1: strange organization from a little while. UH not the one

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Speaker 1: you'd think, but but a strength one nonetheless, And and

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Speaker 1: UH and and UH wound up as we got close

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Speaker 1: to nine eleven, I was the deputy commander of the

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Speaker 1: tent Special Forces Group U at that time UH and

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Speaker 1: in fact was the acting group commander when the attacks occurred.

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Speaker 1: General Cleveland, then Colonel Cleveland was the group commander UH

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Speaker 1: and he was forward with with our first battalion that

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Speaker 1: was involved in an Ellipse exercise at at that time.

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Speaker 1: And then all of the the air traffic obviously got

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Speaker 1: shut down for a little while, so I was stuck

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Speaker 1: there trying to figure out what to do to help

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Speaker 1: the the effort. As things were ramping up. As the

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Speaker 1: acting group commander, we got we got a number of

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Speaker 1: curveballs throwing our way on on on nine eleven, we

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Speaker 1: were aware that that at least superficially, the Fifth Group

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Speaker 1: was was spinning up a bit and had you know,

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Speaker 1: a pretty good idea what they were going to be

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Speaker 1: asked to do, or at least asked to consider. We

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Speaker 1: didn't we we were on the priphery of that and

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Speaker 1: not not specifically or aware of any details, but we

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Speaker 1: had had a clue, UH, and we were asked to

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Speaker 1: to get our mountain and Arctic experts. UH. That that

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Speaker 1: that that we were that we had in tenth Group.

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Speaker 1: It was you know, part of our mission area to

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Speaker 1: be to be good in those environments. We sent a

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Speaker 1: couple of guys in some sense of equipment over to

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Speaker 1: help the Fifth Group guys, and shortly after that General Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: then Colonel Cleveland was able to make it back to Colorado,

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Speaker 1: back to the States, and as it became clear the

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Speaker 1: Fifth Group was gonna move uh forward to establish a

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Speaker 1: joint Special Operations Task Force UH. And it was clear

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Speaker 1: the scope of the of the organization that was being

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Speaker 1: put together. What was gonna be asked to do that?

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Speaker 1: It needed some augmentation to to to to magically flesh

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Speaker 1: out in sfo B in those days and two gues

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Speaker 1: soda again in those days. And they needed a lieutenant

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Speaker 1: colonel to be the J three. Uh I knew John

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Speaker 1: mullholland UH General Lambert was the was the Special Forces

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Speaker 1: Command CG at that time. UH General Cleveland was confident

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Speaker 1: in my abilities. There were a couple of candidates, as

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Speaker 1: I understand it, but I was asked to go do that,

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Speaker 1: so I picked up sticks. In very early October, I

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Speaker 1: went to Fort Campbell. I might have spent thirty hours

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Speaker 1: at Fort Campbell and then got on you know C

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Speaker 1: seventeen with with a number of other guys from the

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Speaker 1: group headquarters, and we moved forward and arrived at Carchi

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Speaker 1: Katabad and then thus began test Force Dagger. Yeah, Charlie

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Speaker 1: Cleveland again you mentioned him, He was the S three

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Speaker 1: When I was down in Panama with a mutual friend

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Speaker 1: of our Stu Brandon. Who are you just talking about? Offline?

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Speaker 1: So laugh? But we soon, as somebody said, Stu Bradon, first,

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Speaker 1: the first thing you have to do is laugh because

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Speaker 1: he's one of the funniest humans. Have it, and he's

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Speaker 1: he is a unique personality. Oh indeed, national treasure. He

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Speaker 1: he's something. He has a ton of energy and while

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Speaker 1: he generally doesn't want people to think it, he is

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Speaker 1: a smart fella. Oh yes, And and it's a super

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Speaker 1: a super good visionary, a super problem solver at a

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Speaker 1: team builder extraordinaire. So yeah, I have I got a

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Speaker 1: lot of history with Stu Braid And that's do you

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Speaker 1: we can laugh about him, that's yes, and and but

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Speaker 1: what you were saying, he likes to mask how smart

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Speaker 1: he is behind that what I call the stup persona,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Colors jock football player, you know. But

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Speaker 1: but we could talk about that for hours at a time.

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Speaker 1: But to get back on track here, M Yeah. In fact,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned General Lambert. He was the want to say,

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Speaker 1: commander of first Battalion, seventh Group when I was there

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Speaker 1: as well, So that's going way back. But anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a task force dagger they put put this all together.

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Speaker 1: How how you know? Nowadays we kind of hear above

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Speaker 1: them doing this like it's you know, nothing, because we've

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Speaker 1: had twenty years of experience doing it. But how difficult

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Speaker 1: was that putting all the pieces together, you know, for

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Speaker 1: a joint task force, and you know, how did they

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Speaker 1: just go ahead? It was a challenge and we have

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Speaker 1: to we have to remember a couple of things. One,

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Speaker 1: it's twenty years ago, and frankly, you know, at that time,

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Speaker 1: the honest to god, the functionality of the Internet was new,

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Speaker 1: if if even born in many units in the army,

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Speaker 1: inclusive of the special forces world. Yeah, we had email, uh,

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Speaker 1: we we had some connectivity and we had uh flyaway

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Speaker 1: kits that were you know, inclusive of of of of

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Speaker 1: of of of satellite communications and UM and and and

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Speaker 1: and tactical local area networks that could be hung off

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Speaker 1: of that. But it was very uh constrained, particularly when

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Speaker 1: compared to you know what we're now used to. So

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Speaker 1: just from a from a communications command and control background

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Speaker 1: or perspective backbone, we we we we didn't know how

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Speaker 1: limited we were. We we we thought we were cool,

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Speaker 1: but it was it was, it was it was a

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Speaker 1: lot less robust then then then what we needed and

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Speaker 1: to to to be to be frank uh, it is

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Speaker 1: a good thing that that what was already present uh

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Speaker 1: at Kachi Kanabata's fifth group was coming in was an

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Speaker 1: air element uh in the very very beginning, uh you know,

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Speaker 1: when you know, after night eleven, the first thing that

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Speaker 1: was considered nationally, as I understand it, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: was to at least get some air power introduced that

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Speaker 1: attempts to do some you know, put some pressure on

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Speaker 1: what we understood was an al Kaeda training base in

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Speaker 1: the southern part of Afghanistan, not far from Kandahar uh

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Speaker 1: and And and some sorties were flown. I don't I

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Speaker 1: can't claim to to describe an ability to describe the

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Speaker 1: specifics of those sorties, but but some things were flown,

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Speaker 1: and there was a search and rescue entity that was

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Speaker 1: established Air Force Search and Combat Search and Rescue empty

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Speaker 1: in two places. One was at Jacobabad uh in In

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Speaker 1: in Pakistan and the other was at Karchi Kanabata, who

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Speaker 1: was Kistan And and that we were able to fall

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Speaker 1: in on on that air force capability was hugely helpful

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Speaker 1: because they they did have they did have uh what

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Speaker 1: at the time was decently wide band capability and they

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Speaker 1: had uh you know, some some some some network capacity

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Speaker 1: that we were able to build upon. But but it

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Speaker 1: wasn't something that that that we had done, you know,

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Speaker 1: other than you know, what what what we tried to

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Speaker 1: do with JRTC in those days, you know, with a

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Speaker 1: much smaller requirement and a much smaller organization, and with

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Speaker 1: much less information and and much less unknown through which

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Speaker 1: to to wrestle. So the challenge was was gaining the

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Speaker 1: necessary situational awareness to then, you know, do something other

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Speaker 1: than than than play unconventional warfare against the Crastnovians of

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Speaker 1: Fort Po, Louisiana. You know, when everyone who's been there

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Speaker 1: and done that remembers how wonderful that is exactly, and

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Speaker 1: and and and and and we knew it would be

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Speaker 1: over in two weeks. That was the best part. We

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Speaker 1: were gonna you know, there was gonna be beer in

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Speaker 1: you know, fourteen days, thirteen days, twelve days, and we

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Speaker 1: were going to get there. But we we we got

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Speaker 1: to Carchi kadabad In in October of two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: and and we were emotionally prepared to spend years in

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Speaker 1: in against what we weren't sure what, we didn't know what,

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Speaker 1: and we we were trying to cobble together something that

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Speaker 1: the magnitude of which we had not cobbled together and

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Speaker 1: and then trying to understand something that only a few

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Speaker 1: of us had a very shallow understanding of here to

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Speaker 1: what we now understand twenty years down downstream. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it was also a good thing we had with us.

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Speaker 1: You know. Of course, the the nation was very invested

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Speaker 1: in doing anything post nine eleven. Why do we have?

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Speaker 1: We gotta respond? So you know, the other government agencies

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Speaker 1: we were more than willing to snap in, and they did,

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Speaker 1: uh in order to help us, you know, UH put

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Speaker 1: both with with with with with technical capability, technical understanding,

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Speaker 1: and cultural historical understanding. So some of the very few

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Speaker 1: and I emphasized very few American humans that had time

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Speaker 1: on the ground, had relationships, had experience in what was

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Speaker 1: the magma of of of of of human morass in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: They showed up and they were present. They made us

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Speaker 1: smarter than we otherwise would have been by by exponentially

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Speaker 1: art that we otherwise would have been uh, and and

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Speaker 1: and helped us sort through what we needed to do

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Speaker 1: in order to attempt to achieve the objectives that were

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Speaker 1: assigned to us. Yeah, because you know, looking back on that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're starting from scratch, and you're going

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Speaker 1: halfway across the world. And the fact that you guys

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Speaker 1: were able to get on the ground, get a functional

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Speaker 1: headquarters together, get teams briefed, and actually deploy into combat

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Speaker 1: is all the things that we used to practice. And

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Speaker 1: I was gonna mention that, even though I hated j RTC,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know anyone who ever liked going there,

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Speaker 1: but that was that was the things we used to

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Speaker 1: practice doing all the time. And you guys put it

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Speaker 1: into action and you're actually able to put teams, you know,

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Speaker 1: in harm's way in a very very short amount of time,

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Speaker 1: a little bit more time than we were used to

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Speaker 1: doing it in the j RTC rotations, but those became

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Speaker 1: you know, uh you know, wrote memory things how to

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Speaker 1: do it in those places. And when you become familiar

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Speaker 1: with the ground, we were you know, as you say,

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Speaker 1: it was it was it was, it was denied territory.

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Speaker 1: There was some degree of no kid in Reel triple

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Speaker 1: A that we had to worry about. That there was

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Speaker 1: an unmeasured but greater than zero for sure, you know,

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Speaker 1: enemy ground capability, and and then beyond that, the you know,

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Speaker 1: while we knew that all we had to do was offer,

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Speaker 1: you know, fruit of chicken and magic firestick to the

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Speaker 1: to the to the gerrillas that that that they that

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Speaker 1: they role played at the in our in our training

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Speaker 1: to that point, we didn't know. We didn't some of

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Speaker 1: the some of the few individuals I previously mentioned from

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Speaker 1: other agencies had a good idea, but we did not

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Speaker 1: know what it would take to gain the trust, gain

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Speaker 1: a first cup of tea with some of these guys

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Speaker 1: that that we went we went into to wrestle with

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, on our tag team against the

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Speaker 1: people we were going to wrestle with upon whom we

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Speaker 1: wished to have a significant impact. So it was it

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Speaker 1: was an intellectual challenge, uh, enabled by the experts we

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Speaker 1: had from other agencies, but we were still you know,

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Speaker 1: in some ways rolling the dice a little bit and

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Speaker 1: had to had to be as smart as we could be.

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Speaker 1: You know. It was it was funny if you think

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Speaker 1: about that, we all, you know, those of us that

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Speaker 1: are that are that are two course graduates, remember that

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Speaker 1: we you know, we went through the you know, the

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Speaker 1: academic phase and the Q course where they teach you

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Speaker 1: this is what a guerrilla base looks like. These are

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Speaker 1: the kinds of things you should do to operationally test

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Speaker 1: and vet and you know what homework you should do

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Speaker 1: before there's a giant checklist before you before you go

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Speaker 1: and become buddies with this, with this, you know, guerrilla chief,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call them, and then became the

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Speaker 1: monikers in Afghanistan where they were war awards is what

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Speaker 1: we came to call them. And there was there not

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Speaker 1: not our term but the term of others, but it was,

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Speaker 1: it was, it was implicated across the community of interest.

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Speaker 1: You know, we we we we we were. It became

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Speaker 1: too onerous to figure out, you know, how do we

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Speaker 1: fill out the fourth Bragg checklist before we say we're

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Speaker 1: going to impligrate a team. And nobody really scored very

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Speaker 1: well as we attempted to figure out how Abdul Rashid

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Speaker 1: Dostam you know, did against this checklist. And well, you've

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Speaker 1: got to make sure that none of these people are

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Speaker 1: gonna become war criminals. And none of these people are

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Speaker 1: gonna you know, right off the back, you know, everybody

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Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. It gets ruled out as soon as you're

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Speaker 1: not applying all the normal rules. All war criminals. Actually,

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Speaker 1: we shouldn't got to be careful how we say that.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I mean there's there had a couple of instances.

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Speaker 1: They're now national leaders and friends of ours, but you know,

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Speaker 1: so called you know, but the the the value on

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Speaker 1: human life, the values of their society are centuries different

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Speaker 1: than ours. And we needed really to figure out what

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Speaker 1: was more important, and and and we arrived at a

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Speaker 1: at a conclusion that we had to decide, first of all,

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Speaker 1: which of these people really have a goal that is

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Speaker 1: similar to ours today? It might not be exactly the same,

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Speaker 1: but they dislike the same people. They would rather not

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Speaker 1: have those folks being the ones uh nominally in charge

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Speaker 1: of their neighborhood, not to be confused with Afghanistan written large,

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Speaker 1: but their little neighborhood instead. You know, do we are

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Speaker 1: we can we agree on who the bad guy is?

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Speaker 1: Do we have a common goal? Do we both want

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Speaker 1: to go to that town, that city, and and and

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Speaker 1: and become the controlling entity? Do we have that common objective?

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Speaker 1: So if we can say yes to that, we share

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Speaker 1: a common goal today, recognizing the tomorrow the answer that

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Speaker 1: question might be different, but today it's the same. We're

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Speaker 1: good today. Then we can ask the second question, do

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Speaker 1: you have a place where where reasonably secure we you know,

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Speaker 1: where we can link up and start to make you know,

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Speaker 1: some sort of a plan as to how we're going

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Speaker 1: to achieve the answer to question number one. You know,

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Speaker 1: so question number two, do you have a secure backyard?

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Speaker 1: And if the answer to that question is yes, now

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Speaker 1: we have the answer to the first question. We share

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Speaker 1: a common goal. You have a secure backyard? Yes? Yes,

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Speaker 1: we can ask them the third question, are you willing

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Speaker 1: to kill somebody behind the answer to question number one?

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Speaker 1: And if the answer all three of those questions was yes,

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Speaker 1: then we are We believe that we could then do business,

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Speaker 1: and we would, we would, we would give it a go.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, we had to do a little

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Speaker 1: bit of research on how good the answer to number

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Speaker 1: two was. And we had to do a little bit

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Speaker 1: of research on figuring out what the answer the question

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Speaker 1: number one might be tomorrow or next week. Realizing that

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Speaker 1: once we get to Mazari Sharif and and we have

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Speaker 1: the most capable UH combat forces can exist in Afghanistan

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Speaker 1: at that point. Now, what do you want to do,

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Speaker 1: General Dosta? Are you interested in continuing with us or

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Speaker 1: are you just gonna, you know, drop anchor right here

339
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Speaker 1: and we gotta go, and how is that going to

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Speaker 1: you know, impact are we then no longer your friend?

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Speaker 1: We had to sort of take through these things. How

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Speaker 1: do we how do we make sure that we don't

343
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Speaker 1: jumped to a yes on question number one and then

344
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Speaker 1: realized that the answer to question number one a week

345
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Speaker 1: from now was going to cause question number one to

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Speaker 1: not not only be no, but now you're my enemy, right,

347
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Speaker 1: So there was there was quite a lot of thought

348
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Speaker 1: to to just to just those three questions. Getting the

349
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Speaker 1: answer the question number three is easy because you can

350
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Speaker 1: see them killing each other all day, figure out you

351
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Speaker 1: know that they've been There were yes and some of

352
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: them there were no, And that was simple. But questions

353
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Speaker 1: wanted two required some thought and we we had ye.

354
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Speaker 1: That's that's that's where the preponderance of the energy in

355
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Speaker 1: our commandic control effort was invested and and we were

356
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Speaker 1: in you know, Cachi Kanabad for a couple of weeks.

357
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Speaker 1: We did. There was the initial team that we were

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Speaker 1: able to get in early early October early October uh

359
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: with with Fahim Khan and the Jawbreaker team that was

360
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Speaker 1: with the Northern Alliance and was really the last vestige

361
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Speaker 1: of what the Northern Alliance had in resistance that wasn't

362
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Speaker 1: controlled by the Taliban. That was you know, there wasn't

363
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Speaker 1: just in some outpost leading in the cave. It was

364
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Speaker 1: the northeast corner of Afghanistan that was still not controlled

365
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Speaker 1: by by the Taliban. They hadn't pushed all the way

366
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Speaker 1: it was closed, they hadn't pushed all the Tajiki out

367
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Speaker 1: of the panch here. There was still so that existed.

368
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Speaker 1: And so those guys we were in. But then other

369
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Speaker 1: than that we were we were able to sort through

370
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Speaker 1: how we wanted to manage a list of others that

371
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Speaker 1: were candidates for for partnering and and then getting after

372
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Speaker 1: you know, what we understood was the first part of

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Speaker 1: of of operation and during freedom, what the first objective?

374
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Speaker 1: What the first operational UH mission? The first operational objective

375
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Speaker 1: was right? And I wanted to jump back a little

376
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Speaker 1: bit and ask you you know, during the Soviet occupation

377
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Speaker 1: of Afghanistan, as you mentioned, there was other governmental organizations

378
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Speaker 1: and agencies that were involved with our efforts to help

379
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 1: push the Russians out. Were any of those guys still

380
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: available to help, you know, maybe greasing the skids for

381
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: the teams going in there. Yes, there was some. That's

382
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: that's because that that's quite a bit of time that

383
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Speaker 1: went on by the time those Yeah. But as as

384
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Speaker 1: you go back to the first part of our our

385
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Speaker 1: discussion here, Uh my, I want to be careful to

386
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: be I want to be clear. This is my understanding.

387
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Speaker 1: So I I don't I don't, I don't know to

388
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: firmly have reviewed the assiers on these people and heaven

389
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: you know. But but but I took it for granted

390
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: that uh, these these these handful less I mean literally

391
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Speaker 1: very small, single digit number of of of of of

392
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Speaker 1: Americans that that had a knowledge you know, one of

393
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Speaker 1: whom was a very senior guy who remain unnamed. Uh

394
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Speaker 1: who I mean he had to be. I mean, I'm

395
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: honestly guessing I don't know his I don't know his

396
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: real name. I know what we called him. Ah, but

397
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: he was the liaison to us, uh you know, from

398
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: the ground branch that that was with us in our

399
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: organization at Kochi Kanabad and he as as my understanding

400
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: is that he was one of the Americans that were

401
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: involved in in in helping the Mujahadeen back the in

402
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: the in the Soviet resistance times. Exactly what he did,

403
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, but he certainly didn't know. He in

404
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: his brain he knew the you know, the majority of

405
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: these people, what their motivations were, what they would like,

406
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: what they didn't like, and and and uh, to my recollection,

407
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: every bit of advice he gave us was spot on.

408
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: So that guy existed on on the Afghan side. On

409
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: the Afghan side, a lot of the of the war

410
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: lords were with were the same people, some of whom

411
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: were Sovia trained people, inclusive of those you know who

412
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: was he's an uzbek so that was previously part of

413
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union so or in Uzbekistan. Was he's you know,

414
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: a tribal Uzbekan in Afghanistan, but he nonetheless a Soviet

415
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: And I couldn't tell you what the timeline of that

416
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,719
Speaker 1: was if he was you know, Sovia trained as an

417
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: Afghan recruited into Soviet assistance in the time of the occupation,

418
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 1: but that that guy was Soviet trained, so too. There

419
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: were many others that were that were like that. But

420
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: but but these these guys, the senior guys we're we're

421
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: were were known to us having motivations and connections in

422
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 1: one way or another. There was one guy who came

423
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: to us later on after the fall of Kabbo, and

424
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: really you know, after Anaconda and he came. He came

425
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: to us. So this is now April of of two

426
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: thousand and two. Uh. This guy is Uh Cherry Mohammed Karimi,

427
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: who eventually became the Chief of the General Staff of

428
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: the new Afghan Army post UH post a Talibant ejection.

429
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: So we're talking in the time frame of two thousand twelve,

430
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen, I guessing is the time frame that

431
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: he would have been the Chief of the General Staff

432
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: as and the as th E d aft and four star.

433
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: He was British trained and and found us you know

434
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: afterwards we were in Kabbo smart enough to know that

435
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: he and he was a Western thinking Poshtune, a real

436
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: small minority of those, but he was a Western thinking

437
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: Poshtune and and and and and was known to Karsi.

438
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: Uh was jailed and beaten by the Taliban and and

439
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: and somehow managed to get out of Afghanistan and was

440
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: in and Push was in Peshawar, Pakistan when when nine

441
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: eleven happened, and then was aware of the events that

442
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: occurred thereafter. But he is someone that that that obviously

443
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: is involved in all of what occurred. Uh involved in

444
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: in some way in what the Mujahadeen were trying to

445
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: do in in the but but but then wasn't And

446
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: then the Afghan civil Wars occurred. You had a lot

447
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: of different factions that rise. Heck batjar Uh Massud, you know,

448
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: all all of those gentlemen. So he's interconnected with with

449
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: with with various and sundry leaders of that time. But

450
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: he came and was a huge help. His English is

451
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: better than ours. He laughed at our Boston accent. And

452
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: and and that guy was you know, so as you

453
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: want to start to manifest and enumerate who who wasn't

454
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: on the Afghan side, that that was from those days

455
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: and knew who is who in the zoo, this was

456
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: a key guy as well. There were a lot of them.

457
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: There's a long list. We could talk about that for

458
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: for hours the but anyway, the short answer your question

459
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: is yes, a real small number of the American side, Yes,

460
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: a significant number, as I think he is logically imaginable

461
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: on the on the Afghan side, and that had to

462
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: be invaluable for the for the guys going in with

463
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: the with the the initial teams because you know, yeah, fact,

464
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: but but the those those guys that were still in

465
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan that the initial teams went in to partner with.

466
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: Those guys that are still in Afghanistan are all, shall

467
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: we say, interesting characters, you know, as compared to those

468
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: who left who didn't didn't remain to fight the Taliban

469
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: didn't didn't see that as reasonable. You know, the ones

470
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: that are in there are in there for mostly nefarious reasons.

471
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that. Some of them for nefarious reasons.

472
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: Some of there because they have no option. M uh.

473
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: But you know that when we go back to you know,

474
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: who is it that we want to be bed partners with?

475
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: And and and why isn't that the that the Fort

476
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: Bragg checklist was was was just not reasonable to impose

477
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: most of these guys are traffickers of some kind or

478
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: have family members that are traffickers of some kind. Uh,

479
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: are real good at jump and fence. You know, they

480
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: have to in some way be aware and be connected

481
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: to the to the Taliban. Most of them a little

482
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: less mustued. Who doesn't make it to nine eleven, who

483
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: has assassinated two days before but his number two, Fahim Khan,

484
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: you know, not not at all interested in the Taliban,

485
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: had his own interests that we could talk about him

486
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: for a long time too. Not a friend of mine. No, anyway,

487
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: I've probably carried on too much about that topic. But

488
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: that's uh, that's quite all right. This is this is

489
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: the stuff that a lot of us weren't aware of.

490
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: And you know, it's it's interesting because you know, we

491
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: went in there with a lot less intelligence than we're

492
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: used to working with these days. And that's you know,

493
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: you know, nowadays, our intelligence gathering it's so much better.

494
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: Our communications is so much better. Well, that's our ability

495
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: to leverage the info sphere is is exponentially better. You're right, Yeah,

496
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: how difficult was it? You know back at at the

497
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: joint base. Its keep in contact with these teams that

498
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: are out there. Well, believe it or not, believe it

499
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: or not, We we actually use after serve, sup Remember that. Yeah,

500
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: So we we actually used that in combat, believe it

501
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: or not. That we we were we received angus is.

502
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: Remember that. Oh you gotta have one. And I mean

503
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: we I say that, I mean some people took liberties

504
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: with the format. And I'll leave that topic at that.

505
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: But I mean we got but we we got, we

506
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: we got you know, some of them were we were

507
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: we're we're we're, we're true religion dudes, and I loved it.

508
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: We would get boris is from some of them, you know,

509
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: you know, and others then we're just they they they

510
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: just couldn't be bothered with that that old school stuff.

511
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: And and wanted to push the talk. So we had

512
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: and we could we could put We had, you know,

513
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: in the beginning, for sure, we had enough bandwidth to do.

514
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: You know, we had we had an open mic pretty much,

515
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: you know, to be able to talk. It wasn't it

516
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: was far from perfect and you know, nothing thing like

517
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: what we what we probably have. There was some SAT

518
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: phone we had that that was less than perfect and

519
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: less than secure, you know, so it was challenging. Um

520
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: but but but we could secure sat phones once in

521
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: a while. Single quality made that hard, but it happened. Uh,

522
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: suffice to say, you know, it isn't like we were

523
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: like we are now, you know. And then there wasn't

524
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: cellular capability. There wasn't and and and an open chat room.

525
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: You know a lot of these things that you know

526
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: you now you could do from you know, inside of

527
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: of of a system installed in your in your you know.

528
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: Now they all have you know, us vehicles everywhere. We

529
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: were running around and we had a couple of of

530
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, four by four's, and I mean literally the

531
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: little what do you call them? We had those, so

532
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: what do you what's the combo system and those you'd

533
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: be correct and am rabi just to receive only you

534
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: know so, but I think every way you go in

535
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: the Third World there's a Toyota high luck somewhere. Yeah,

536
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 1: with a fifty caliber machine gun mounted with blocks. It's

537
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: it's something. But it was challenging. You know. The teams

538
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: were awesome, they really were. You know, we had some

539
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: you know just what you'd think the you know, the

540
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: and and I had at that point, I had outgrown

541
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: it by ten years and it's been a long time

542
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: since I was on you know, on a on an

543
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: a team carrying a rucksack as I arrived as the

544
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 1: J three of the of the task force. You know.

545
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: But those boys were those were those were hard men

546
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: that that that knew what well and we we all

547
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: thought they were they were going in and we were.

548
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: It was something you talk about this for a couple

549
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: of minutes. You know, we wouldn't you know, when we

550
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: were in piling team as we you know, we're hugging

551
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: you know, ten twelve dudes on the on the strip

552
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: at at at Carchi as they were getting on too,

553
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, the MH forty seven's, and we did not

554
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: know when or if we would see those boys again.

555
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: M And you send them off to cross the Hindu

556
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: kush where you know, even from a few thousand feet,

557
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: you can see if you look hard enough, you can

558
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: see the bones. The Afghans would be glad to show you,

559
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: the brit bones, and the Russian bones be glad to

560
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 1: show them to you. They only known then. They don't

561
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: call it the you know, the place where empires come

562
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 1: and die for nothing. Yeah, I mean it's a tough place.

563
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: And and we but we those those boys went out

564
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: there and they figured out how to to to get

565
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: us the information they needed to get us. Some of

566
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: them light didn't want to talk. They wanted to do it,

567
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, with the more secured you know digital you know,

568
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: text message communication capability that that that was embedded in

569
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: the radio systems that we had at that time. Some

570
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: of them did like push to talk. Some of them

571
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: preferred the sack phone and it worked better in some places.

572
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: And perhaps their preference was driven by what actually worked

573
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: for them a function of where they were, you know,

574
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: where they had, you know, visibility to satellite, where they

575
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: had and which which satellite they were using. So there

576
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: was there was there was some variables obviously that they

577
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: didn't control or it didn't matter what they preferred, but

578
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: they figured it out and and they they they pushed

579
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: through the information that we needed to understand where they were.

580
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: And what made it easier was, you know, during the

581
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: time when we were when we were putting sorties off

582
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: and we had you know, arrived at a point where

583
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: where air superior you know, air air superiority was a

584
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: given pretty quickly. Then when we had you know, uh,

585
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: and we had our own organic capabilities. Obviously we had

586
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: a c S and we had MCS, and we could

587
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: get the a c S to loiter at night. Obviously

588
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: we stayed at night with the with the with the

589
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: a CS, but in the daytime they were uh, you know,

590
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: Air Force close air support capability with a commander control

591
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: you know, a wax capability that those capabilities from from

592
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: the from the air elements gave us our best connectivity

593
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: and then you're able to talk real well. And that's

594
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: that's always important. And the fact that the guys were

595
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: able to talk with the a c S that's uh.

596
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: It was critical and and it and it was not

597
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 1: error free. Oh yeah, so we will will probably save

598
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: that topic for another conversation, but or maybe or maybe not.

599
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: But you know, we did, you know, we not not

600
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: everything worth exactly right important important? You know what we

601
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: we we all we all, we all made mistakes. And

602
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, Steve, there are there are some

603
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: things that wake me up at night to this day

604
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: that we would Yeah, but how important you know the uh,

605
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: this was one of the first times in combat that

606
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: you know, we embedded Air Force CCT guys with special forces.

607
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: And how important was that, especially in the early going.

608
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: I know nowadays again you know, we do it without

609
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: even thinking about it. Now you hear about it all

610
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: the time. But that was like kind of a first.

611
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know that it was a first.

612
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I I want to say we had you know,

613
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: bits and parts of that capability in Bosnia. That's a

614
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: great I don't remember, but but we certainly didn't in Afghanistan,

615
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: that's for sure, obviously, and uh and and it was

616
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: a struggle to be sure that we could do it

617
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 1: across all teams. And then in some instances, as I recall,

618
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: you know, we had to forego it because the inventory

619
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: wasn't we didn't have enough. I think that that was

620
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: that got fixed along the way. And I don't I

621
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: don't remember exactly long. Boy, I'm getting old. That's long.

622
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: Things I don't remember. But oh man, I'm telling you.

623
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: The options sucked, though, so we gotta keep and keep

624
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: moving one day at a time. Um so. But their

625
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: capability was it was was excellent. And the and the

626
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: and the connectivity, the multifaceted connectivity that they provided was excellent.

627
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: And and and they and they are human, so you know,

628
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: they you know, like us, they made a couple of mistakes,

629
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: but their their back and average was awesome. And their

630
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: we ability to to ensure that we were that we

631
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: were bringing close air support where it was needed, it

632
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: was was was essential. You know, the firepower that we

633
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: brought to Bayar against the Taliban combat power that was significant.

634
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: You know, in the in the very early days, UH

635
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: was the firepower. That that that that that caused the

636
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: tide to begin to roll and continue to roll. We're

637
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: all the way through Anaconda. Yeah, I remember reading about that,

638
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: you know, when the when the guys first got there,

639
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: as some of the Northern Alliance commanders, you know, we're

640
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: looking at just a dozen SF guys like, you know,

641
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: what can you do for us? Yeah? Yeah? And then

642
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: what they bring in a B fifty two strike and

643
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: you know that kind of well, some of them didn't

644
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: understand that it was that that it was when airplane.

645
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: I mean, as I am listening to the to the

646
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: to the discussion and I'm participating in the you know,

647
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: the commander control conversation with with guys on the ground,

648
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: I remember one one one team leader, I wish I

649
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: could remember this his name. One team leader who's who

650
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: says this guy this this this, This guy thinks as

651
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 1: I'm taking my commander's pointer and I'm illuminating the target,

652
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: he thinks that my my, my commander's pointer was generating

653
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: the energy and the explosion, and he thinks that's like

654
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: a magic wand he thinks it was a magic binocular.

655
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: So he wants to know why he he needs one

656
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: of those things. I didn't realize that there was you know, uh,

657
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: you know, putting a designator on a on a target

658
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: that the jade Am then went and found. Didn't didn't

659
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: understand that. No, I'm sure. I mean, these are the

660
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: guys that were fighting on horseback with you know, yeah,

661
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: with Enfield rifles and you know, some A K s.

662
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure, but I'm sure some of them were still

663
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: carrying endfields. Oh god, I'll send you a picture of

664
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: one that they gave me. You'll laugh. You could post it.

665
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's not the only one that's floating around that.

666
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 1: It's probably maybe I should be careful because someone was said,

667
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: wait a minute, that's a war tropy. You're not supposed

668
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: to have that. I won't. I won't tell anybody where

669
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: I got the picture from. So okay, I'm gonna send

670
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: you a picture. You'll laugh. But I think you know

671
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: what thing would work once? But I have it. Well,

672
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, you're funny you mentioned that. I mean, after

673
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: the nonsense with Noriega, we disbanded the Panamanian military, made

674
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 1: them national police. I don't know where they found them,

675
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: but we issued them these ancient thirty eight caliber revolvers

676
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: that they must have found like buried in the desert

677
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: someplace in Arizona. That they were rusted pieces of junk,

678
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: and the AMMO was probably buried with them, because some

679
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: of them we take them out to the range and

680
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: then pulled the trigger and the round would barely clear

681
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 1: the barrel and it would hit the ground like three

682
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: ft in front of them. So I can imagine what

683
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: some of the Afghan guys in the Northern Alliance are gas. Yeah,

684
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: but unbelievable. What did the what was the general consensus?

685
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: I know, you know, every place will be different, but

686
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: the general consensus of the the teams, you know what? Uh,

687
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: what was their feeling about the Northern Alliance guys they

688
00:44:51,800 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: were working. Well, there's obviously a rage mm hmm uh,

689
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: you know, and and some of it was was influenced

690
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 1: by we. We tried to shield this from the teams,

691
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: which I think we did. Obviously easy for me to

692
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: say that we kicked ass as a community control entity,

693
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: We really didn't. I know, I know that we've left

694
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 1: a lot to be desired, but but there was pressure.

695
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: You know, why this five thousand afghanst there? Why aren't

696
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: they moving faster? Why aren't they, you know, and enveloping

697
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 1: the enemy and and and you know, applying good tactics

698
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 1: in order to get there from here. You know, we

699
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: had a misunderstanding from stumb that that that that I

700
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: didn't understand that the best that these guys were gonna

701
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: do was walked straight ahead at all at the same

702
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: time and point their rifles all in the same direction.

703
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: That was that was the best they we're gonna do.

704
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: They weren't going to do bounding overwatch or fire and

705
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: maneuver or movements to contact with reasonable tactical security. It's

706
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: just it's just way beyond uh, the rudimentary capability of

707
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: the of of of of ancient militia. It's just not

708
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: gonna happen, not, not anytime soon. I mean, it was

709
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: it was that the challenge was, let's get them to

710
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: a decent stock point in these beat up jingle trucks.

711
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: Let's get them all moving. I mean, we're gonna walk

712
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: in the same direction. We're gonna walk at the same

713
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: speed where where we're we're and we're going that way.

714
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: Let's go and that and and we'll try to keep

715
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 1: the close air support in front of you and on

716
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: on top of you, you know, so we could do

717
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: that with some you know, reasonable assurance. So some some

718
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: some were informed by they should be doing better, so

719
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: they therefore sucked, they're not doing so well. But but

720
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: the majority of our guys, you know, in in typical

721
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: special forces fashion, love their gees. Those are my gs.

722
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: They're obviously awesome because they're my you know, you can't

723
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: don't talk bad about my geez. My gez are they

724
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,919
Speaker 1: you know, I can talk about about but you can't.

725
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: Don't talk that exactly, My gee will take over the world,

726
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,919
Speaker 1: just that because we're ready and they and they want

727
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: to fight, and they and that that was true. They

728
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: wanted to fight that well, that was not a problem.

729
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, Afghans have always loved to fight and they're

730
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: not afraid, not afraid of you know. So I think

731
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: that that our guys, you know, understood what what our

732
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: guys understood. Our location in the universe. We are in Afghanistan.

733
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: We are not at Forthood. We have no railroad, we

734
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 1: have no repair capability, we have limited communication capability. Nobody

735
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 1: can read you know, we have uh you know, we

736
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: we we're we're malnourished. We we don't have a lot

737
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: of water. We we are, we are what we are,

738
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: and and and we're gonna we're gonna work with what

739
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: we have, and we're gonna take this one step at

740
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: a time and and we'll and and that's awesome because

741
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: it's damn sure a heck of a lot better than

742
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: the Taliban are in charge. And it's damn sure a

743
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: lot better than you know, al Qaeda is moving around

744
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: in in in Afghanistan. They could smoke them if they

745
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: got them, and and they smoked all kinds of stuff

746
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: because they had it and and and and and and

747
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: and operate with impunity. They they they had they had

748
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 1: freedom of action, they had freedom of maneuver, they had

749
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: freedom to train and rest and recover that sanctuary in Afghanistan.

750
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: That changed, That changed, and and and and that was

751
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 1: the mission take that freedom of action away from al Qaeda,

752
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: so that whatever it is they did to prepare for

753
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: nine eleven at Harnack Farms, that that freedom of actually

754
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: went away. If you guys can make that go away

755
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: by causing five thousand or the best Afghan friends to

756
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,879
Speaker 1: change their mind today about the fact that those guys

757
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: are welcome guests in their country. That's what we need

758
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: you to do so if we can get the GS

759
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: to do that, the GS are the heat. The gees

760
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 1: are brilliant and they were. And how did we lose

761
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: that along the way? Was it because everybody from the

762
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: military got involved, Because it's because the answer the question

763
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: number one changed and we knew it. We knew it

764
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: would change, but we just didn't We knew that, the

765
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: SF guys knew, but the rest of the no didn't

766
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 1: really track that. You know, now now that we had,

767
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: you know, made them the uh now that now, I mean,

768
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: we get it becomes this becomes a political conversation at

769
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: some point, and I'd rather avoid that. But we you know,

770
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: and I but but the the fact remains that that

771
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: that the Afghans, we wanted to give them what we

772
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: called security. That's what we wanted and that's a noble

773
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 1: thing to want to do. There was nothing wrong with

774
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: our motivation. But we we we collectively and then that

775
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: turns into nation building and blah blah blah. But but

776
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: to us, security looks like fishhawk, it looks like you know,

777
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: to to the average American security looks like you know,

778
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 1: Deboin Iowa, it looks like you know, not it doesn't

779
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: look like Detroit, but it looks but but it looks

780
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: like you know, you know what I mean. It looks

781
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 1: like our neighborhood where we grew up and kids walked

782
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 1: to school and and and and and this police that

783
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: that allow you to cross the street, and you can

784
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: get in the car and go to a gas station

785
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: and there's a sign that says gas is two dollars

786
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: and forty nine cents a gallon, and you buy and

787
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 1: that's the price, and you can go to the grocery

788
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: store by what you want. And that's security. That's what

789
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: it looks like to us. And there is there is

790
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: a local government that has connections to a state government

791
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 1: that has connections to a federal government, all of which

792
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: of course ideally operates. And I'm not passing judgement on

793
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: how it currently operates in our country because it doesn't.

794
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 1: But I never said that. But but but that's what

795
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: we think security is. I mean, and I'm obviously that's

796
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: a very very terse, you know, compressed definition, but we

797
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: wanted to bring that. It's look at how cool this is.

798
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 1: You know, Afghanistan, We're gonna help you and and and

799
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: ar NATO friends similarly, we need a federal structure. Briefs. Well,

800
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: you know, but the dude who lives in Latanga is

801
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: not interested in being connected to a federal entity in Cobble.

802
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: In fact, less than not interested. He rejects that. He

803
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: does not want security. He wants autonomy, and and he

804
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: wants to the autonomy to be able to charge toll

805
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: at his road intersection for whatever the the you know what,

806
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 1: whatever price the day will bear, whatever the market will

807
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: bear at that moment. So he's not interested in putting

808
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: a sign up for gas. He's not interested in even

809
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: telling you he's selling gas. He's interested in telling you

810
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: I'll let you pass today, but this is what I'm

811
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: going to charge you to do it. And then oh

812
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 1: you want gas too, that will cost you more, you know,

813
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: and and that and I'm your friend. Today you could pass,

814
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for paying toll. That's an Olympic

815
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 1: sport in Afghanistan. And they've been doing they've been doing

816
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: that for thousands of and that again overly simplified. But

817
00:52:54,719 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: the but the aggregate concept is the difference between purity

818
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: and autonomy, federal security, local autonomy. That's my belief. That

819
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 1: is my belief, and it is my belief that we

820
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:19,399
Speaker 1: have failed to figure out how to provide local autonomy

821
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 1: and somehow morphed that idea into what we call village stability.

822
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: It's not exactly the same. Very good, it's just not

823
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 1: I uh, you know, I think back to those times.

824
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: I mean, this was, you know, the couple of generations

825
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: removed from Vietnam. Our guys got to put into action,

826
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, the stuff that SF guys had trained for.

827
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 1: And I thought they did a tremendous job because we

828
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: started from scratch, like you said, and nine eleven took

829
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: us all by surprise, and guys like you put together

830
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: Task Force Dagger. I met General Moholland briefly once, but

831
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: I did not know him. I knew his brother, who

832
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: ended up being yeah, yeah, yeah, what a great American

833
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 1: greas Shan Mholland was a great American And that was

834
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: a loss on a number of levels, as as as

835
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 1: uh as his as his as his trajectory changed and

836
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 1: ultimately he passed away, which a shame. Love love, Sean,

837
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, I thought you guys did a tremendous job there,

838
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 1: because again we're watching it from afar, but you know everything,

839
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: I mean, we saw you know, snippets of the horse soldiers,

840
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 1: and that brought back some pleasant memories from myself because

841
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: we helped you know, the guys from Charlie Wilson with

842
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: the mules and and pack animals. So it was great

843
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: to see that. And you know, um, is there anything

844
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: else you'd like to share with us about that time?

845
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: What it was like and you know your time there. Um,

846
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: I would just say, I would just say this, uh one.

847
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: You know, if if I were asked, I would do

848
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: it again. M hm and uh and we'll do the

849
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: best I can. And well, think how much better it

850
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: would have went if we had now, yes, with all

851
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: the with all the material and communications intelligence. Now how

852
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: smooth knowing the mistakes we made and we we we

853
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: we we made a lot of good decisions and the

854
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: obviously you know, we got we got the first part done.

855
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 1: The Taliban, you know, when you think about it, and

856
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,720
Speaker 1: we had at the at by by the middle of November,

857
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: they were maybe maybe a hundred Americans on the ground

858
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 1: in in in Afghanistan. And and and we ejected the

859
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:17,280
Speaker 1: Taliban from power and and uh and and took away

860
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 1: the sanctuary frem Al Kaeda that they had previously enjoyed

861
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, Hunter Americans not too shabby. And I think

862
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: I think we did a pretty good job, so I

863
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: would and and and that that we have struggled to

864
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: then figure out how to sustain that, which I think

865
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: is is understandably challenging a function of the environment of

866
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: Afghanistan and the fact that it's it's not Fortwood, Texas,

867
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,879
Speaker 1: it's not Fort Bragg, it's not Fort Polk, It's Afghanistan,

868
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: and it's it's literally the middle of nowhere. Uh. It

869
00:56:54,680 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 1: is interesting that that that you know, we're in a

870
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: hurry to leave now. I mean, in one hand, I

871
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: understand that. On on on the other hand, I'm not

872
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: sure why we view it as something we must, you know,

873
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: totally walk away from when uh we we we still

874
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: have presence in Germany, we still have presence in Korea,

875
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: we still have presence in Japan. Uh just to name

876
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: a few places. We still have presence in Uh. Well,

877
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: it isn't like it was when you and I were there,

878
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: but we still have this still Americans of various slavers

879
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: in Panama. Mm hm. That was that was a great assignment,

880
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: but there was um anyway, you know, we're we're we're we're.

881
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 1: We're talking about change that has to occur over time.

882
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: It's generational. And and my belief is that there is

883
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: that there is a right answer somewhere between keep doing

884
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: what we've been doing and do nothing at all. Somewhere

885
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: between those two extremes, there is an answer to how

886
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 1: we do the very best we can to sustain the

887
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: victory that that that that I think is is poorly

888
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: understood with respect to what was achieved in Afghanistan in

889
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: two thousand and one, two thousand too, if we were

890
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: UH as a society able to understand a little bit

891
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: more between stability and autonomy, a little bit more between

892
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: federal institutions and UH and and and and and and

893
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: local warlords tribal feudalism, that that that still is something

894
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: to which we could be nominally connected in a manner

895
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: that allows us to be aware and and have some

896
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: freedom of action to ensure that the that that that

897
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: that that the international terrorists don't take root in the

898
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: manner that they did UH in in the in the

899
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: decade proceeding eleven. There's there there there is an answer

900
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 1: somewhere in that gray And if I could leave everybody

901
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: with that thought, maybe they'll eat their wheaties and think

902
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: about it, maybe have another cup of coffee, be better caffeinated,

903
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: and generate the energy necessary, uh and and the the

904
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: motivation necessary, the national will that we need in order

905
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: to do the right thing in the century. I don't

906
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: know that I'm the smartest guy in the room. I

907
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: know I'm not. Actually I know I'm not the smartest

908
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: guy in the room. But I know a little bit

909
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: about Afghanistan. Well, you're the smartest guy in this room

910
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: as I was listening. But there's some smart fellas in

911
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: our regiment, that's for sure. But that was the opportunity,

912
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: I really do. I I hope that, uh, I hope

913
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: that that that that that what I had to say

914
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: resonates with folks. And if there's something you want to

915
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: talk about it the future event, don't don't hesitate to

916
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: track me down, Steve. You know what to find me, absolutely,

917
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: I do. I. I definitely know how to find you

918
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 1: because as we mentioned before, you know you and uh

919
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: your neighbor uh that has to be an interesting neighborhood

920
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: right there. That's all I can say. This funny stuff

921
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: happening in this neighborhood every day. Yeah, I don't doubt

922
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: that for a second, as we both know Stu. So yeah,

923
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: he told me you guys worked together in Europe, and

924
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: I can only imagine what that was like, having worked

925
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: with him. I think I told you on the phone

926
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: and I spoke with his dad, who uh sadly passed

927
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: away not too long ago, but not long ago, right, Yeah.

928
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 1: I spoke with his dad on the phone one day

929
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: and and uh, he's like, here, talk to my dad

930
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: a second. He had to go running to do something.

931
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: We were down to bantam Or and his dad said, so,

932
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: you're my son's EXO, because I was the ward on

933
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 1: the team. And he said, I said yes, he's like, son,

934
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: you have my sympathy. That's all I can say. And

935
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: he goes and I love the fruit of my livings.

936
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 1: He told me something similar with the second time I

937
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: had stew on my hand receipt. He said, you're you're

938
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: you're STU supervisor. Oh my god, this gracious. He patted

939
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 1: me on the shoulder. Oh, I'll tell you one of

940
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 1: the real story real quick. And then and then I

941
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: got a run. But we we you know, we did

942
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 1: some work and deservedly to get Stu promoted to oh

943
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: six mm and uh, I mean that was one of

944
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: the best decisions that army made, but we had to

945
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: do some work to do it. And uh and so

946
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,959
Speaker 1: that happened, and his dad then and we were stood

947
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: gud and his dad came to to Germany to see that,

948
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 1: you know, and his mom you know, all of which

949
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 1: was very cool. And we decided to have his dad

950
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 1: read the orders to publish the orders. Oh awesome, was awesome.

951
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 1: You know. So you get a guy like that who

952
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 1: then reads the words the President Nited States proposed a

953
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: special trust and confidence in my son. Yeah, that's awesome,

954
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: very cool, very cool. Well, Mark gives me pause thinking

955
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: about him now years ago. Yeah, it's it's time flies

956
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: when you're having a blast. That's a fact, all right, Steve.

957
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,959
Speaker 1: Thanks yeah, thank you for taking the time with us today.

958
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. And yeah, we've been talking about

959
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: Task Force Dagger. Uh. I think it's relevant now because

960
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: those were the first guys into Afghanistan in two thousand

961
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: and one, and now we're getting ready, you know, to

962
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: to pull our guys out. And it's the end of

963
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: a long relationship we've had with our our folks over

964
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 1: there in Afghanistan. So but before we go, if you

965
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: want to get soft Reap on your phone, download of

966
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: free mobile app and get easy access to our articles, podcast,

967
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: gear reviews, all perfectly for Amatito your device, please describe

968
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: to soft rep dot com to get access to our

969
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: library of e books and our exclusive team room content

970
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: and forms available on all your Apple and Android devices.

971
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: We want to thank everyone for listening. Uh. We always

972
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: appreciate our listeners and our readers, and thanks once again

973
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: to our guests today. Mark, you know it's been It's

974
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: been a lot of fun and I definitely would like

975
01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: to do this again soon. Gore thing all right for

976
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 1: all of us here at soft Rep. We'll be back

977
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: with a another podcast for you guys really shortly love

978
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 1: them listening to self rep Lydia you