WEBVTT - I Choose…Loving Better with Jillian Turecki 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:09.400 You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland. Hi, everyone, 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.560 welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:18.320 the choices we make and where they lead us. Guys. Today, 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.599 my guest is someone I think we're all going to 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.200 learn a lot from. Her social media is incredibly insightful 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.200 and I'm so excited I get to connect with her 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.840 today and pick her brain. She's a certified relationship coach, 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:35.400 a teacher, and the host of the Jillian on Love podcast. 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.920 Her book It Begins with You, The Nine Hard Truths 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:42.640 about Love that will Change Your Life is out now. 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:47.960 Please welcome Jillian Taureki to the podcast. Hello, I'm so 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.919 excited to meet you and speak to you. Thank you 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:52.159 for coming on today. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.080 Oh my god, thank you for having me. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.920 Okay, I have a question right out of the gate. 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:03.760 How come a certified relationship coach? 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:04.839 Oh? 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.119 Man, Well, I mean I literally did it out of 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.240 just this was like what I was meant to do. 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.280 I taught yoga for many years, like almost twenty years, 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.759 so I was helping people with their relationship with themselves 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:21.240 for many years. And I also worked with went to 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:25.039 people's homes and worked with families and couples. So I 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.240 was always in the world of like mind body wellness, 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.000 but personal development was not. Because we're talking this is 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.399 like twenty years ago. And then when I started to 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.280 transition into relationship coaching, we're talking twenty fourteen. This is 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.319 like before it was like a thing on Instagram. This 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:47.240 is before there was therapy, of course, but this is 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.680 well before it all became very popular. But I went 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.920 through a very difficult time. I had a very short 0:01:54.960 --> 0:02:00.920 marriage that ended terribly and was very sad, and it 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.120 all happened at the same time that I was having 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.640 that I had a miscarriage and my mom was dying 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.920 of cancer. So everything happened at once. And when that happened, 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:16.160 I became obsessed with the question what makes a relationship work? 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.280 Like why am I in this position? 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.840 Because being in the position of getting a divorce at 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.639 the age that I was at was in complete contradiction 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:25.919 to how I identified. 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.800 I thought, I was like this evolved person, why is 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:29.519 this happening? 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.400 And I, you know, I'm a child of a psychiatrist 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:34.239 and i'd. 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:35.000 Been in therapy. 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.720 You know, I'm a Jewish New Yorker, so like therapy 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:39.639 is like very normal. 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:41.720 For us. 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.240 So in other words, like a lot of people are 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.679 in therapy now, but therapy was sort of a thing 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:52.280 of the seventies and eighties and nineties with New Yorkers 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:57.240 long before that. So when my ex now ex husband 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:03.040 and I went to couples, therapy was really bad. And 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:06.800 I'm not putting it down as a whole, but we 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:11.280 went to a couple and it was not helpful at all, 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.960 and I thought there has to be another way. And 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.840 I discovered that there is another way, and so my 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:23.600 original intention was to become certified to work with couples 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.240 to help them in a way that we were not 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:30.160 being helped. And then working with couples is not for 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.440 the faint of heart. It's very difficult. And then I 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.560 really wanted to work with people through heartbreak because I 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.760 felt like I pulled myself took it was a long 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:43.680 time out of such a deep hole and had to 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.720 confront so many demons within myself that I really wanted 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.800 to help people with heartbreak. And then I was like, Wow, 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.760 all these singles are flocking to me like how to 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:58.120 start dating. So my practice expanded out of just couples. 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:02.720 But that is sort of a sort of condensed story 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:07.320 of the origin, story of how one becomes a relationship coach. 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:12.520 It sounds like you learned so much through your trials 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.840 and it's a way of sort of almost paying it 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.599 forward to other people that are going through similar things, 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:24.039 like what you learned sharing those messages. That's so powerful. 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:25.320 I think that's how we all learn. 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:26.720 Yeah. 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.680 I'm really just sort of a teacher at heart, and 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.960 so if I learned something and really integrate into my life, 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.160 I immediately want to teach it in some way, right, 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:36.880 share it. 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:39.000 Yeah, I want to share it. 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.239 I want to help in any way that I can 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.800 once I fully understand it, and so yeah, that's been 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:45.680 sort of my journey. 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.159 I think that we're similar in that way. My mom 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.080 probably always wanted to be a therapist. We had so 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.719 many self help books and it was just, you know, 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:59.080 part of our family dynamic. It sounds very similar. I 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:03.400 love how manerable you are. And you were talking before 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:07.119 about in twenty fourteen when your life was falling apart 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.760 and you learned that awful news about your mom and 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:14.320 you had that miscarriage, and if I'm not mistaken, it 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:19.480 was the same day, Yeah, you're now ex husband came 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:20.919 to you and said that he didn't want to be 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:21.960 married any longer. 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:23.839 Yeah, And he didn't actually come to me, he sent 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:24.479 in a text. 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:28.080 He just said, Yeah, I'm not a fan of this 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:28.839 guy already. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.840 I know. I know it's not it's not an easy 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.440 story to tell, and I don't I would imagine it's 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.839 not an easy story for him to think about. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:39.440 But no, it was. 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.960 It was a pretty It was like everything that like 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.360 you should not do when you break up with someone, 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:46.760 right happened, you know. 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:51.600 About let read the room, Bud, Yeah, well about timing? Okay, 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.560 well eleven years later, now, yeah, how did you get 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:59.520 through that? And what would you say to that past 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:01.799 version of Jillian? 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:06.920 Yeah? How did I get through that? With a lot 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.640 of help. I leaned on my sisters. 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.719 It was heartbreaking because typically my mom would be the 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.800 person who I would lean and lean into and lean 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.440 on the most, but she was limited and being able 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.200 to support me fully and I didn't want to and 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.799 I didn't want to burden her. I leaned on friends. 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:30.919 In the beginning, I was in therapy twice a week. 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.160 That's when I actually started working with a coach and 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:40.040 I was introduced to Tony Robbins and actually his work 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.840 was really the catalyst for me. That's kind of changed everything. 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.840 But and I and I continue to teach yoga because 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.960 it's really important to do things that get you out 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:57.560 of your head and so you know, showing and to 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.080 maintain as much as you possibly can and some routine, 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:02.680 some normalcy. 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:08.680 But it was sad and it was a dark time. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:09.760 And also. 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:14.520 What I also did was because I became so obsessed 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.920 with what makes a relationship work, and I was obsessed 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.960 with trying to get myself to feel better and to survive. 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:26.120 I worked on myself. I just dove right into all 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.760 of that. So what would I tell that version of me? 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.800 And I sort of alluded to this in my book, 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.640 which is, you feel like you're dying right now, but 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.000 actually you're being reborn. And that sounds kind of corny, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.000 but it really is very true. 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:44.680 It is true. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:50.120 Yeah, so it's you feel like you're dying right now, 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.280 but I promise you that your life is taking a 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:59.040 different direction and it's okay, and it's actually the direction 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:00.360 that you need to beyond. 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.480 And I would just reassure her. 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.920 You knew in the thick of it that even though 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.120 this hurts like hell, this is the best thing for me. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:13.800 I knew that I was inspired by what it was 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:18.600 that I was learning, and it was giving my life 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:23.560 some sort of meaning. So the meaning didn't take away 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:28.040 the pain, but it did help me get up in 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:33.720 the morning. And then obviously it gets easier right as 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:37.719 time goes on, it actually gets easier. But yeah, I 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:41.320 gave my life, it gave me some purpose, and I 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.040 think that's really that's a big motivator for people. 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.560 Absolutely, a reason to get up in the morning, something 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:53.880 to be curious about, want to spend some energy investigating. 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.720 I mean, I've definitely been there. I mean, I know 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.199 pretty much all of us have been what we call 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:05.120 at our lowest our darkest times. And you're right, it's 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:10.760 important to have something to look forward to or believe in, 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:16.240 or something that something Oh my god, it's the only thing. 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.560 It's I mean, and I've worked with a lot of 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.920 people who were in a sort of a deep emotional hole, 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:25.080 and so much of it is if I can get 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:29.520 this person something to find, something to look forward to 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.560 or even every morning, something to listen to that inspires them, 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:35.240 that is what everyone needs. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.840 Yeah, I'm so stubborn. I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure, that's 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:41.680 for everybody else, not for me right now. I know, 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.800 I'm just miserable and I'm in this dark place and 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:46.600 I just want to be left alone. So I had 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:50.360 to go through that period and kind of honor that 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.840 and let that be for a while until I was ready. 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.800 Like you, you can lead a horse to water, but 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.600 you can't make them drink. So people have to be 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:06.559 ready to receive just a little opening, even just alone insight. 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:12.000 Absolutely absolutely, you know, even though I can look back 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:17.120 at that time and understand its purpose, it's not like 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.199 I don't romanticize it in any way, and I don't 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:22.319 try to romanticize it for anyone. Like, there were some 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.560 really dark times and and I definitely had moments where 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.760 I was just closed off to just anything making me 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:30.400 feel better. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:30.880 For sure. 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.600 Yeah, I think that there's so much talk about how 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.480 to come out of those situations, and and there's so 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.720 many lessons and tips and tricks people offer, yeah, for 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:45.640 us to feel better, But sometimes we just have to 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:47.040 let ourselves feel bad. 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.720 Yeah, for sure, we have to let ourselves feel bad. 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.559 And I mean, this is it's an interesting it's an 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.800 interesting conversation that has a lot of nuance, it's it's 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:03.560 and when where do we draw the line when someone 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:08.079 is still just in it and not moving forward and 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:11.520 still stuck in that sort of traumatic state, Where do 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:16.079 we kind of draw that line? Right, Because there's always 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:20.280 a lesson and it's not something that you want to 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.800 tell the person when they're in the acute stage of 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.680 that grief, like that's not the time to talk about 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:32.160 the lesson. But there is also a lesson and in time, 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.199 hopefully that person will well feel that. 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.560 And see that you mentioned in your book that is 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.320 out now, everybody you should run to the computer and 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.880 buy it or to the bookstore and still even have bookstores. 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.199 I don't even know. But you say that we cannot 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.400 heal our love lives without healing the relationship we have 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:58.040 with ourselves. Every relationship we have had has had one 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:03.440 thing in common us. So explain to our listeners. If 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:08.440 we don't accept this commonality, what will continue to happen 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.040 in our relationships? 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:15.040 Will continue to repeat patterns, And that's just the bottom line. Look, 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.920 the fact that every relationship we ever had has had 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.560 one thing in common, and that's us. 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.040 Does not mean that we are the problem. 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:25.880 Because I know that's like a very that's a very 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.560 you know zeigeist deed like phrase right now, or that 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:35.280 you know it's we're to blame. It's that you can't 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.120 change if you have to be the change that you 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:42.439 want to see in your love life. And you have 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:47.280 certain beliefs and certain conditioning, and you have your own 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.760 unique childhood, and you have your unique way in which 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.280 you see the world, and you are a human being, 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.800 and so by definition, you have thoughts that are very 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.719 messy and very empowering. 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.480 And we are not taught this in school. 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.680 And if you're lucky, you had great parents who taught 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:10.679 you a lot of things. But guess what, And this 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.640 is where it's a huge mystery. I've known people who 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:18.079 have a who've had great childhoods, and they don't necessarily 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.880 make the best choices in relationships and partners. Now, a 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.880 great childhood helps, but nothing is a guarantee. And so 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.240 if we're not able, you know, this is like we're 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.720 why is this happening to me? Why is this happening? 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:38.160 What's going on? And it's just okay, you've reached the 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.960 point where there needs to be some necessary self examination, 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.439 and maybe that's how you feel about yourself your self esteem. 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:52.960 Maybe that's you're haunted by a past relationship. Maybe you're 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:58.120 haunted by something something in your past. And chances are 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:02.600 you just are not that skilled with in certain areas 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:07.040 of relating because we're not taught this right and not 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:07.800 the tools. 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:09.800 You just don't have the tools. It's it. 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:14.680 Yeah, I mean I had a great childhood, pretty great 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.440 yeah as childhoods go, and I had great parents that 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.040 tried to teach me I could do anything. But the 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.960 one thing that I always struggled with in my life 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:30.280 was being in a relationship like the just the day 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.680 to day and how to get in and out of 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:39.240 conflict with a partner, how to not lose myself, how 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:43.000 to I didn't know anything. And all these conversations that 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:47.280 we're having now, I'm so so happy that they're they're 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.240 going on because I have three daughters that I'm raising 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.600 and I want them to have more than I had 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:54.280 in this area for sure. 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.240 Did you what did you learn about yourself in terms 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:04.520 of what works for you in relationship and what doesn't 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:05.760 work well. 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.240 I certainly learned that I need to be able to 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:13.120 express my feelings or to have a voice in a relationship. 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:15.920 A long time, and one that I did not feel 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:21.720 seen or heard and that was just slowly killing me. Yeah, 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.440 and just setting a terrible example for my kids. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:26.640 Yeah. Absolutely. 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.160 And the thing is, like you don't sometimes you don't 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:33.360 see until you've been through it, like where you can 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.440 grow and learn, you know. Yeah, you have to sometimes 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.240 just feel it, get through it, go through it, and 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.200 come out on the other side with your jewels of wisdom. 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:45.840 Yeah, exactly. 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.680 Can we talk a moment about attachment styles in a relationship? 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.360 So explain to my listeners what the different attachment styles 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.440 because everybody's talking about attachment styles. 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.040 I know. Now I'm not a fan of how popular 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.440 they've become, but yes, I'll talk about it. 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:09.680 Why aren't you a fan? 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.600 First of all, Well, I am a fan of it 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:16.400 as a tool to help you understand yourself and relationships. 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.520 But I am not of the school of thought that 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.000 everything boils down to your attachment style. 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.400 Right, and because you label it, it's going to make 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:24.400 everything better. 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.360 Or and also people's self. You know, I have anxious attachment. Now, 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.560 you like you can't have it, you know, like it's 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.640 not a cold you you know you you know you 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:39.240 can't like have anxious attachment. You maybe struggle with some 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.840 anxious attachment issues because of childhood, but that can change 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.840 depending on who you're in a relationship with. That can 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.760 change depending there's so much context. So so if you're 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.400 anxiously attached typically and the way that it's explained doesn't 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.920 totally resonate with me, Typically, if you are anxiously attached, 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:05.720 you had a parent who was maybe not as reliably there. 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:06.800 For you and your needs. 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.880 Okay, for me, I would have leaned anxiously attached because 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.360 my father had a very very complicated relationship with my father, 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:20.560 So that made me more attached to my mom, So 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.919 I would have a lot of separation anxiety from my mom. 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:29.560 People who are avoidant, typically what happens is when they're 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.920 growing up, there might be a lot of ameshment. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.800 So there their. 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:39.920 Parent, maybe they had a parent who parentified them, maybe 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.679 they were raised maybe it was a boy raised by 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.480 a single mother, and the single mother instead of actually 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.560 being in romantic relationships, you just always she made her 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.920 son her husband in that weird way, because this happens, 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:57.399 This really does happen, and then that little boy grows 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.920 up to not want anyone to need them because they've 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.000 had that mother who's always needed them. 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:04.640 And that never felt good. 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.240 And that never feels good. No, and then oh, in 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.560 some avoidance. You know, some people are just wired for 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.359 more independence. You know, that was the ethos of the 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.080 family system. It was like, you don't need anyone, you 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:20.160 need yourself. And then other people are more wired for togetherness. 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.199 It's like, you don't know, it's not you need other people. 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.560 And so that might show up as a conflict in 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.159 a relationship because that person is wanting more togetherness and 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.000 the other person's wanting more autonomy. 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.720 So it's not to set their record straight. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.200 I think attachment theory is brilliant in its own right, 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.200 but there's nuance, and the nuance is not described enough. 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.199 And there's also nuance in the sense that you know, 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.399 historically more men are avoidant and more women will be 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:55.440 anxiously attached. So why does that happen well, because in general, 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.360 and see I want to say it's in general, women 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:05.359 have historically tended to they have valued connection and love 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:11.439 and higher than men, and men have valued achievement higher 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:16.320 than that. And so in a relationship, if you're speaking 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.879 heteronormatively between a man and a woman, you'll have the 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.400 woman wanting to actually have more connection and the man 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.360 wanting to have more of his freedom to pursue his purpose. 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.840 Things are changing now as gender roles are changing, but 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:35.719 still there's the you know, women, we are biologically wired 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.160 for more connection and love than the men, and that's 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:41.520 just that's the role of estrogen in our bodies versus cystosterone. 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.600 So I think that gender plays a role in all 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.639 of it as well. There's also context. You could be 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.719 someone could actually be have a high degree of anxiety 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:57.160 and a relationship and separation anxiety because of they were 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:01.760 mistreated or abandoned or betrayed in a relationship, or maybe 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.639 they're going through something in their life where work is 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:05.919 not going well at all. 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:08.400 And they're really. 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:12.879 Struggling in work, and so when they get into a 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:17.640 relationship and they put all their emotional stock in that 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:23.480 relationship instead of nurturing other aspects of their life, so 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:28.080 they may present as sort of chasing love from the avoidant. 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:32.320 But either way, in a relationship, there's always this dance 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:37.040 of intimacy of let's get close, but let's also pull away. 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.240 Because we're always trying to straddle this line between how 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.080 much autonomy are we going to have in this relationship? 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.480 And how much togetherness? This is this sort of unspoken 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:51.800 contract of relationship is how do we find something called interdependence? 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:56.560 Where it gets very where it can get very messy 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.919 is when one person is just really values autonomy and 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:05.119 has a hard time being needed, They have a hard 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:09.640 time being present, they have a hard time with intimacy. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.600 And the other person who's so anxious and then never 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.200 feels like they can really lean on themselves, so they 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:21.399 feel extra needy in a relationship, particularly if someone's pulling away. 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:25.919 There's so many different nuances, and so what's important for 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:29.440 the listener and for anyone who who's thinking about this 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.400 is how has how has that played out for you 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:35.680 in your life? What are some of the patterns that 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.359 you have seen? What is your relationship with freedom? What 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:43.440 is your relationship with togetherness? Do you prefer more togetherness? 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:44.000 You did? 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:44.480 You do? 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.239 You have a lot of abandonment in your life, and 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.520 therefore you need someone to be in a relationship where 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:52.240 there is more togetherness. 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:56.959 How threatened are you by by having to meet someone's 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:59.760 emotional needs? These are the things that we need to 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:03.320 hear ourselves, because for a relationship to work, both people 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:06.920 need to be highly invested in meeting each other's emotional 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.280 needs while at the same time capable of meeting their own. 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:11.760 And it's a process. 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.960 Yeah, it's hard for me to even wrap my head 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:19.679 around attachment styles and labeling myself one versus another. I 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:21.960 feel like I'm all of them, yes, right, because it's 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.480 and I've been. I've been all of them at some point, 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:29.200 transitioned or grown through certain ones to make life better 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:32.800 and to make a relationship feel stronger. 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:33.240 Yes. 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:37.440 So I feel like this whole labeling of attachment styles 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.240 for me has never felt right. 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:42.840 Yeah, and that makes sense. 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:46.640 Yeah. I heard you say also that the top three 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:51.359 reasons in a relationship when a relationship fails are stress, 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:59.080 taking each other for granted, and resentment. Yes those high yes, yes, yes, yes, 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:00.119 I have them all. 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:00.400 Yes. 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:02.360 I think people are so afraid to have those hard 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:08.919 conversations because we're afraid to hurt someone or have that 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:13.320 tough conversation with your partner. How do we do that? 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:16.640 Yeah, A lot of people don't have the tough conversations 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.960 because they're afraid of not being good enough for the person. 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:23.439 They're afraid that if they express this vulnerability, this need 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.760 that the other person's going to reject them, like so 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.520 many pretty much all the things that we do in 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:33.560 a relationship where we're dancing around intimacy or we're not 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.719 having the hard conversations, is because we are trying to 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:41.879