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Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland. Hi, everyone,

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Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about

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Speaker 1: the choices we make and where they lead us. Guys. Today,

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Speaker 1: my guest is someone I think we're all going to

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Speaker 1: learn a lot from. Her social media is incredibly insightful

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Speaker 1: and I'm so excited I get to connect with her

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Speaker 1: today and pick her brain. She's a certified relationship coach,

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Speaker 1: a teacher, and the host of the Jillian on Love podcast.

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Speaker 1: Her book It Begins with You, The Nine Hard Truths

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Speaker 1: about Love that will Change Your Life is out now.

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Speaker 1: Please welcome Jillian Taureki to the podcast. Hello, I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to meet you and speak to you. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for coming on today.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I have a question right out of the gate.

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Speaker 1: How come a certified relationship coach?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Man, Well, I mean I literally did it out of

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Speaker 3: just this was like what I was meant to do.

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Speaker 3: I taught yoga for many years, like almost twenty years,

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Speaker 3: so I was helping people with their relationship with themselves

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Speaker 3: for many years. And I also worked with went to

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Speaker 3: people's homes and worked with families and couples. So I

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Speaker 3: was always in the world of like mind body wellness,

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Speaker 3: but personal development was not. Because we're talking this is

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Speaker 3: like twenty years ago. And then when I started to

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Speaker 3: transition into relationship coaching, we're talking twenty fourteen. This is

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Speaker 3: like before it was like a thing on Instagram. This

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Speaker 3: is before there was therapy, of course, but this is

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Speaker 3: well before it all became very popular. But I went

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Speaker 3: through a very difficult time. I had a very short

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Speaker 3: marriage that ended terribly and was very sad, and it

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Speaker 3: all happened at the same time that I was having

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Speaker 3: that I had a miscarriage and my mom was dying

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Speaker 3: of cancer. So everything happened at once. And when that happened,

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Speaker 3: I became obsessed with the question what makes a relationship work?

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Speaker 2: Like why am I in this position?

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Speaker 3: Because being in the position of getting a divorce at

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Speaker 3: the age that I was at was in complete contradiction

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Speaker 3: to how I identified.

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Speaker 2: I thought, I was like this evolved person, why is

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Speaker 2: this happening?

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Speaker 3: And I, you know, I'm a child of a psychiatrist

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Speaker 3: and i'd.

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Speaker 2: Been in therapy.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm a Jewish New Yorker, so like therapy

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Speaker 3: is like very normal.

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Speaker 2: For us.

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Speaker 3: So in other words, like a lot of people are

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Speaker 3: in therapy now, but therapy was sort of a thing

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Speaker 3: of the seventies and eighties and nineties with New Yorkers

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Speaker 3: long before that. So when my ex now ex husband

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Speaker 3: and I went to couples, therapy was really bad. And

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Speaker 3: I'm not putting it down as a whole, but we

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Speaker 3: went to a couple and it was not helpful at all,

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Speaker 3: and I thought there has to be another way. And

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Speaker 3: I discovered that there is another way, and so my

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Speaker 3: original intention was to become certified to work with couples

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Speaker 3: to help them in a way that we were not

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Speaker 3: being helped. And then working with couples is not for

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Speaker 3: the faint of heart. It's very difficult. And then I

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Speaker 3: really wanted to work with people through heartbreak because I

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Speaker 3: felt like I pulled myself took it was a long

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Speaker 3: time out of such a deep hole and had to

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Speaker 3: confront so many demons within myself that I really wanted

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Speaker 3: to help people with heartbreak. And then I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 3: all these singles are flocking to me like how to

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Speaker 3: start dating. So my practice expanded out of just couples.

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Speaker 3: But that is sort of a sort of condensed story

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Speaker 3: of the origin, story of how one becomes a relationship coach.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like you learned so much through your trials

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Speaker 1: and it's a way of sort of almost paying it

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Speaker 1: forward to other people that are going through similar things,

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Speaker 1: like what you learned sharing those messages. That's so powerful.

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Speaker 1: I think that's how we all learn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I'm really just sort of a teacher at heart, and

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Speaker 3: so if I learned something and really integrate into my life,

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Speaker 3: I immediately want to teach it in some way, right,

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Speaker 3: share it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to share it.

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Speaker 3: I want to help in any way that I can

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Speaker 3: once I fully understand it, and so yeah, that's been

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Speaker 3: sort of my journey.

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Speaker 1: I think that we're similar in that way. My mom

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Speaker 1: probably always wanted to be a therapist. We had so

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Speaker 1: many self help books and it was just, you know,

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Speaker 1: part of our family dynamic. It sounds very similar. I

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Speaker 1: love how manerable you are. And you were talking before

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Speaker 1: about in twenty fourteen when your life was falling apart

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Speaker 1: and you learned that awful news about your mom and

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Speaker 1: you had that miscarriage, and if I'm not mistaken, it

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Speaker 1: was the same day, Yeah, you're now ex husband came

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Speaker 1: to you and said that he didn't want to be

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Speaker 1: married any longer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And he didn't actually come to me, he sent

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Speaker 2: in a text.

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Speaker 1: He just said, Yeah, I'm not a fan of this

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Speaker 1: guy already.

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Speaker 3: I know. I know it's not it's not an easy

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Speaker 3: story to tell, and I don't I would imagine it's

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Speaker 3: not an easy story for him to think about.

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Speaker 2: But no, it was.

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Speaker 3: It was a pretty It was like everything that like

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Speaker 3: you should not do when you break up with someone,

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Speaker 3: right happened, you know.

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Speaker 1: About let read the room, Bud, Yeah, well about timing? Okay,

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Speaker 1: well eleven years later, now, yeah, how did you get

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Speaker 1: through that? And what would you say to that past

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Speaker 1: version of Jillian?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? How did I get through that? With a lot

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Speaker 2: of help. I leaned on my sisters.

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Speaker 3: It was heartbreaking because typically my mom would be the

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Speaker 3: person who I would lean and lean into and lean

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Speaker 3: on the most, but she was limited and being able

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Speaker 3: to support me fully and I didn't want to and

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to burden her. I leaned on friends.

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Speaker 3: In the beginning, I was in therapy twice a week.

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Speaker 3: That's when I actually started working with a coach and

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Speaker 3: I was introduced to Tony Robbins and actually his work

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Speaker 3: was really the catalyst for me. That's kind of changed everything.

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Speaker 3: But and I and I continue to teach yoga because

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Speaker 3: it's really important to do things that get you out

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Speaker 3: of your head and so you know, showing and to

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Speaker 3: maintain as much as you possibly can and some routine,

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Speaker 3: some normalcy.

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Speaker 2: But it was sad and it was a dark time.

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Speaker 2: And also.

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Speaker 3: What I also did was because I became so obsessed

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Speaker 3: with what makes a relationship work, and I was obsessed

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Speaker 3: with trying to get myself to feel better and to survive.

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Speaker 3: I worked on myself. I just dove right into all

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Speaker 3: of that. So what would I tell that version of me?

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Speaker 3: And I sort of alluded to this in my book,

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Speaker 3: which is, you feel like you're dying right now, but

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Speaker 3: actually you're being reborn. And that sounds kind of corny,

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Speaker 3: but it really is very true.

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Speaker 1: It is true.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's you feel like you're dying right now,

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Speaker 3: but I promise you that your life is taking a

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Speaker 3: different direction and it's okay, and it's actually the direction

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Speaker 3: that you need to beyond.

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Speaker 2: And I would just reassure her.

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Speaker 1: You knew in the thick of it that even though

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Speaker 1: this hurts like hell, this is the best thing for me.

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Speaker 3: I knew that I was inspired by what it was

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Speaker 3: that I was learning, and it was giving my life

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Speaker 3: some sort of meaning. So the meaning didn't take away

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Speaker 3: the pain, but it did help me get up in

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Speaker 3: the morning. And then obviously it gets easier right as

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Speaker 3: time goes on, it actually gets easier. But yeah, I

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Speaker 3: gave my life, it gave me some purpose, and I

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Speaker 3: think that's really that's a big motivator for people.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, a reason to get up in the morning, something

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Speaker 1: to be curious about, want to spend some energy investigating.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've definitely been there. I mean, I know

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Speaker 1: pretty much all of us have been what we call

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Speaker 1: at our lowest our darkest times. And you're right, it's

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Speaker 1: important to have something to look forward to or believe in,

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Speaker 1: or something that something Oh my god, it's the only thing.

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Speaker 3: It's I mean, and I've worked with a lot of

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Speaker 3: people who were in a sort of a deep emotional hole,

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Speaker 3: and so much of it is if I can get

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Speaker 3: this person something to find, something to look forward to

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Speaker 3: or even every morning, something to listen to that inspires them,

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Speaker 3: that is what everyone needs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so stubborn. I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure, that's

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Speaker 1: for everybody else, not for me right now. I know,

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Speaker 1: I'm just miserable and I'm in this dark place and

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Speaker 1: I just want to be left alone. So I had

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Speaker 1: to go through that period and kind of honor that

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Speaker 1: and let that be for a while until I was ready.

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Speaker 1: Like you, you can lead a horse to water, but

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Speaker 1: you can't make them drink. So people have to be

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Speaker 1: ready to receive just a little opening, even just alone insight.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, you know, even though I can look back

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Speaker 3: at that time and understand its purpose, it's not like

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Speaker 3: I don't romanticize it in any way, and I don't

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Speaker 3: try to romanticize it for anyone. Like, there were some

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Speaker 3: really dark times and and I definitely had moments where

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Speaker 3: I was just closed off to just anything making me

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Speaker 3: feel better.

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Speaker 2: For sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that there's so much talk about how

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Speaker 1: to come out of those situations, and and there's so

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Speaker 1: many lessons and tips and tricks people offer, yeah, for

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Speaker 1: us to feel better, But sometimes we just have to

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Speaker 1: let ourselves feel bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, we have to let ourselves feel bad.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, this is it's an interesting it's an

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Speaker 3: interesting conversation that has a lot of nuance, it's it's

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Speaker 3: and when where do we draw the line when someone

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Speaker 3: is still just in it and not moving forward and

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Speaker 3: still stuck in that sort of traumatic state, Where do

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Speaker 3: we kind of draw that line? Right, Because there's always

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Speaker 3: a lesson and it's not something that you want to

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Speaker 3: tell the person when they're in the acute stage of

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Speaker 3: that grief, like that's not the time to talk about

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Speaker 3: the lesson. But there is also a lesson and in time,

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Speaker 3: hopefully that person will well feel that.

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Speaker 1: And see that you mentioned in your book that is

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Speaker 1: out now, everybody you should run to the computer and

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Speaker 1: buy it or to the bookstore and still even have bookstores.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know. But you say that we cannot

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Speaker 1: heal our love lives without healing the relationship we have

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Speaker 1: with ourselves. Every relationship we have had has had one

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Speaker 1: thing in common us. So explain to our listeners. If

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Speaker 1: we don't accept this commonality, what will continue to happen

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Speaker 1: in our relationships?

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Speaker 3: Will continue to repeat patterns, And that's just the bottom line. Look,

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Speaker 3: the fact that every relationship we ever had has had

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Speaker 3: one thing in common, and that's us.

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Speaker 2: Does not mean that we are the problem.

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Speaker 3: Because I know that's like a very that's a very

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Speaker 3: you know zeigeist deed like phrase right now, or that

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Speaker 3: you know it's we're to blame. It's that you can't

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Speaker 3: change if you have to be the change that you

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Speaker 3: want to see in your love life. And you have

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Speaker 3: certain beliefs and certain conditioning, and you have your own

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Speaker 3: unique childhood, and you have your unique way in which

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Speaker 3: you see the world, and you are a human being,

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Speaker 3: and so by definition, you have thoughts that are very

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Speaker 3: messy and very empowering.

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Speaker 2: And we are not taught this in school.

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Speaker 3: And if you're lucky, you had great parents who taught

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Speaker 3: you a lot of things. But guess what, And this

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Speaker 3: is where it's a huge mystery. I've known people who

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Speaker 3: have a who've had great childhoods, and they don't necessarily

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Speaker 3: make the best choices in relationships and partners. Now, a

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Speaker 3: great childhood helps, but nothing is a guarantee. And so

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Speaker 3: if we're not able, you know, this is like we're

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Speaker 3: why is this happening to me? Why is this happening?

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Speaker 3: What's going on? And it's just okay, you've reached the

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Speaker 3: point where there needs to be some necessary self examination,

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Speaker 3: and maybe that's how you feel about yourself your self esteem.

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Speaker 3: Maybe that's you're haunted by a past relationship. Maybe you're

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Speaker 3: haunted by something something in your past. And chances are

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Speaker 3: you just are not that skilled with in certain areas

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Speaker 3: of relating because we're not taught this right and not

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Speaker 3: the tools.

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Speaker 2: You just don't have the tools. It's it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I had a great childhood, pretty great

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Speaker 1: yeah as childhoods go, and I had great parents that

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Speaker 1: tried to teach me I could do anything. But the

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Speaker 1: one thing that I always struggled with in my life

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Speaker 1: was being in a relationship like the just the day

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Speaker 1: to day and how to get in and out of

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Speaker 1: conflict with a partner, how to not lose myself, how

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Speaker 1: to I didn't know anything. And all these conversations that

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Speaker 1: we're having now, I'm so so happy that they're they're

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Speaker 1: going on because I have three daughters that I'm raising

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Speaker 1: and I want them to have more than I had

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Speaker 1: in this area for sure.

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Speaker 3: Did you what did you learn about yourself in terms

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Speaker 3: of what works for you in relationship and what doesn't

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Speaker 3: work well.

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Speaker 1: I certainly learned that I need to be able to

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Speaker 1: express my feelings or to have a voice in a relationship.

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Speaker 1: A long time, and one that I did not feel

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Speaker 1: seen or heard and that was just slowly killing me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and just setting a terrible example for my kids.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And the thing is, like you don't sometimes you don't

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Speaker 1: see until you've been through it, like where you can

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Speaker 1: grow and learn, you know. Yeah, you have to sometimes

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Speaker 1: just feel it, get through it, go through it, and

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Speaker 1: come out on the other side with your jewels of wisdom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk a moment about attachment styles in a relationship?

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Speaker 1: So explain to my listeners what the different attachment styles

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Speaker 1: because everybody's talking about attachment styles.

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Speaker 3: I know. Now I'm not a fan of how popular

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Speaker 3: they've become, but yes, I'll talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Why aren't you a fan?

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Speaker 3: First of all, Well, I am a fan of it

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Speaker 3: as a tool to help you understand yourself and relationships.

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Speaker 3: But I am not of the school of thought that

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Speaker 3: everything boils down to your attachment style.

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Speaker 1: Right, and because you label it, it's going to make

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Speaker 1: everything better.

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Speaker 3: Or and also people's self. You know, I have anxious attachment. Now,

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Speaker 3: you like you can't have it, you know, like it's

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Speaker 3: not a cold you you know you you know you

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Speaker 3: can't like have anxious attachment. You maybe struggle with some

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Speaker 3: anxious attachment issues because of childhood, but that can change

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Speaker 3: depending on who you're in a relationship with. That can

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Speaker 3: change depending there's so much context. So so if you're

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Speaker 3: anxiously attached typically and the way that it's explained doesn't

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Speaker 3: totally resonate with me, Typically, if you are anxiously attached,

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Speaker 3: you had a parent who was maybe not as reliably there.

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Speaker 2: For you and your needs.

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Speaker 3: Okay, for me, I would have leaned anxiously attached because

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Speaker 3: my father had a very very complicated relationship with my father,

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Speaker 3: So that made me more attached to my mom, So

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Speaker 3: I would have a lot of separation anxiety from my mom.

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Speaker 3: People who are avoidant, typically what happens is when they're

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Speaker 3: growing up, there might be a lot of ameshment.

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Speaker 2: So there their.

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Speaker 3: Parent, maybe they had a parent who parentified them, maybe

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Speaker 3: they were raised maybe it was a boy raised by

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Speaker 3: a single mother, and the single mother instead of actually

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Speaker 3: being in romantic relationships, you just always she made her

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Speaker 3: son her husband in that weird way, because this happens,

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Speaker 3: This really does happen, and then that little boy grows

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Speaker 3: up to not want anyone to need them because they've

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Speaker 3: had that mother who's always needed them.

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Speaker 1: And that never felt good.

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Speaker 3: And that never feels good. No, and then oh, in

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Speaker 3: some avoidance. You know, some people are just wired for

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Speaker 3: more independence. You know, that was the ethos of the

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Speaker 3: family system. It was like, you don't need anyone, you

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Speaker 3: need yourself. And then other people are more wired for togetherness.

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Speaker 3: It's like, you don't know, it's not you need other people.

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Speaker 3: And so that might show up as a conflict in

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Speaker 3: a relationship because that person is wanting more togetherness and

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Speaker 3: the other person's wanting more autonomy.

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Speaker 2: So it's not to set their record straight.

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Speaker 3: I think attachment theory is brilliant in its own right,

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Speaker 3: but there's nuance, and the nuance is not described enough.

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Speaker 3: And there's also nuance in the sense that you know,

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Speaker 3: historically more men are avoidant and more women will be

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Speaker 3: anxiously attached. So why does that happen well, because in general,

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Speaker 3: and see I want to say it's in general, women

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Speaker 3: have historically tended to they have valued connection and love

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Speaker 3: and higher than men, and men have valued achievement higher

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Speaker 3: than that. And so in a relationship, if you're speaking

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Speaker 3: heteronormatively between a man and a woman, you'll have the

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Speaker 3: woman wanting to actually have more connection and the man

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Speaker 3: wanting to have more of his freedom to pursue his purpose.

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Speaker 3: Things are changing now as gender roles are changing, but

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Speaker 3: still there's the you know, women, we are biologically wired

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Speaker 3: for more connection and love than the men, and that's

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Speaker 3: just that's the role of estrogen in our bodies versus cystosterone.

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Speaker 3: So I think that gender plays a role in all

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Speaker 3: of it as well. There's also context. You could be

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Speaker 3: someone could actually be have a high degree of anxiety

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Speaker 3: and a relationship and separation anxiety because of they were

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Speaker 3: mistreated or abandoned or betrayed in a relationship, or maybe

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Speaker 3: they're going through something in their life where work is

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Speaker 3: not going well at all.

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Speaker 2: And they're really.

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Speaker 3: Struggling in work, and so when they get into a

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Speaker 3: relationship and they put all their emotional stock in that

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Speaker 3: relationship instead of nurturing other aspects of their life, so

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Speaker 3: they may present as sort of chasing love from the avoidant.

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Speaker 3: But either way, in a relationship, there's always this dance

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Speaker 3: of intimacy of let's get close, but let's also pull away.

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Speaker 3: Because we're always trying to straddle this line between how

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Speaker 3: much autonomy are we going to have in this relationship?

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Speaker 3: And how much togetherness? This is this sort of unspoken

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Speaker 3: contract of relationship is how do we find something called interdependence?

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Speaker 3: Where it gets very where it can get very messy

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Speaker 3: is when one person is just really values autonomy and

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Speaker 3: has a hard time being needed, They have a hard

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Speaker 3: time being present, they have a hard time with intimacy.

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Speaker 3: And the other person who's so anxious and then never

357
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Speaker 3: feels like they can really lean on themselves, so they

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Speaker 3: feel extra needy in a relationship, particularly if someone's pulling away.

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Speaker 3: There's so many different nuances, and so what's important for

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Speaker 3: the listener and for anyone who who's thinking about this

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Speaker 3: is how has how has that played out for you

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Speaker 3: in your life? What are some of the patterns that

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Speaker 3: you have seen? What is your relationship with freedom? What

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00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 3: is your relationship with togetherness? Do you prefer more togetherness?

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Speaker 2: You did?

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Speaker 3: You do?

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Speaker 2: You have a lot of abandonment in your life, and

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Speaker 2: therefore you need someone to be in a relationship where

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Speaker 2: there is more togetherness.

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Speaker 3: How threatened are you by by having to meet someone's

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Speaker 3: emotional needs? These are the things that we need to

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Speaker 3: hear ourselves, because for a relationship to work, both people

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Speaker 3: need to be highly invested in meeting each other's emotional

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Speaker 3: needs while at the same time capable of meeting their own.

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Speaker 2: And it's a process.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard for me to even wrap my head

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Speaker 1: around attachment styles and labeling myself one versus another. I

378
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Speaker 1: feel like I'm all of them, yes, right, because it's

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Speaker 1: and I've been. I've been all of them at some point,

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Speaker 1: transitioned or grown through certain ones to make life better

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Speaker 1: and to make a relationship feel stronger.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like this whole labeling of attachment styles

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Speaker 1: for me has never felt right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I heard you say also that the top three

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Speaker 1: reasons in a relationship when a relationship fails are stress,

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Speaker 1: taking each other for granted, and resentment. Yes those high yes, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I have them all.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 1: I think people are so afraid to have those hard

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Speaker 1: conversations because we're afraid to hurt someone or have that

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Speaker 1: tough conversation with your partner. How do we do that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, A lot of people don't have the tough conversations

395
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Speaker 3: because they're afraid of not being good enough for the person.

396
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Speaker 3: They're afraid that if they express this vulnerability, this need

397
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Speaker 3: that the other person's going to reject them, like so

398
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 3: many pretty much all the things that we do in

399
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Speaker 3: a relationship where we're dancing around intimacy or we're not

400
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 3: having the hard conversations, is because we are trying to

401
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 3: protect ourselves from losing love. At the end of the day,

402
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 3: you peel away the onion, you get to the core,

403
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 3: and that's really what it is, and that's what I

404
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 3: want people to understand. It is always a fear that

405
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 3: you are not going to be loved, that you're not

406
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 3: going to be good enough for someone. So how do

407
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 3: we have the hard conversations. There's certain principles that we

408
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 3: need to in order to make communication effective and artful,

409
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 3: because it really is sort of an art. One is

410
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 3: leading with love and so what do I mean by that?

411
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 3: You have to remember that the person you're speaking to

412
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 3: is not a monster. They're not your enemy. If you

413
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 3: really really see them as your enemy, if you really

414
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 3: truly see them as a monster, you need to get

415
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 3: out of that relationship fast.

416
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Speaker 2: But if you can kind.

417
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 3: Of slow down your body and your breath a little

418
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Speaker 3: bit and recognize they're not a monster.

419
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Speaker 2: So you have to lead with love. And that means

420
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: you don't.

421
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 3: Make you statements, you make I and WE statements, because

422
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 3: the moment you go into you, you're going into blame,

423
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 3: and the moment you're going into blame, you've lost the battle.

424
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 3: Like it's there, it's done. It's a rapid anywhere. Yeah,

425
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 3: it's like before it even gets started, it's over. So

426
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 3: you have to do that and lead with compassion and

427
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 3: with love and respect and and have some sort of

428
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 3: heartfelt understanding for the pain that your partner is in,

429
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 3: even if it was not your intention. A hard conversation

430
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 3: also has to be led with some sort of vulnerability

431
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 3: and directness, Like sometimes the hard conversation is we've been

432
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 3: seeing each other, we're on the fifth date, and it's time.

433
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Speaker 2: You know, we should talk about sex.

434
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Speaker 3: Even though people don't talk about sex, the people avoid

435
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 3: that conversation. People are much more comfortable getting naked and

436
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: exchanging fluids with one another than they are talking about

437
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 3: their needs. And then what happens is a lot of

438
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 3: people get into trouble. They get attached to someone who's

439
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 3: not attached to them. They have sex. It's not even

440
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 3: that good, but they're doing it because they think that

441
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:46,239
Speaker 3: they should do it.

442
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 2: This is more something that women feel.

443
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 3: Right.

444
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: Do you talk a lot about how we should wait?

445
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,719
Speaker 3: Yes, well I think there's no I don't believe in

446
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 3: any hard fast rules, you know. I think it's deeply

447
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: personal all but what I do believe is have the

448
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 3: conversation if you attach after having sex with someone who

449
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 3: you actually like, which is about ninety five percent of women.

450
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 2: Special you know it really is.

451
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 3: I think for women it decreases a little bit with menopause,

452
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: just because with estrogen going down, what happens is that

453
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 3: not as much oxytocin is released. And then women when

454
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 3: they're when they're transitioning into menopause and beyond, women tend

455
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 3: to become much more self sufficient, a lot more independent.

456
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: With that said, I've worked with women who are well

457
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 3: past menopause years. You get attached, so I think you

458
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 3: know again nuance. So if you're someone who gets attached

459
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 3: after you have sex with someone, so many women will

460
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 3: bullshit themselves and just say, yeah, you know, I can

461
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 3: do it whatever, it's okay, And what ends up happening

462
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: for countless women is that they have sex, they don't

463
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 3: actually even enjoy the sex that much, or or even

464
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 3: if they do, let's say they do, well, guess what,

465
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 3: they want more. But they don't just want more sex,

466
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: they want more of the person. Whereas for a man,

467
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 3: for a lot of men, not all, certainly, not all,

468
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: but for a lot of men, if he's not, if

469
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 3: he doesn't have a strong emotional connection to you, he

470
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 3: can go back for good sex without it being anything

471
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: more than that to him. And so wherever you fall

472
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 3: on the spectrum, however you identify with this, protect yourself

473
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 3: emotionally And isn't their value in way in doing that?

474
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not so much facue. Yeah, there's so

475
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: much value there. Just protect yourself, protect your heart, and

476
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: protect your heart, protect your heart. That's it.

477
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you have to be guarded, no available,

478
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: no or avoidant or whatever.

479
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 2: No, no, no.

480
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 3: In fact, if you're guarded, you're not going to get

481
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: many people to be.

482
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: That interested in you.

483
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 3: You'll get the occasional one who likes the challenge and

484
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: wants to kind of break down your walls, but eventually

485
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 3: he or she will get bored with that.

486
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. What if you're the kind of person in

487
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: a relationship where words are so important and like something

488
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: will be said you can't unsay or unhear something in

489
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: like say a fight or an argument. Yeah, what if

490
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: you're the person that ruminates that on those the bad

491
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: things that they heard, and they just can't stop thinking

492
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: about them for days or weeks, And it's like it

493
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: can kind of just create this environment where not only

494
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: you but your partner is walking around on eggshells and

495
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: you how do you solve the conflict? Yeah, but also

496
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: not constantly like keep reliving it, resaying it, rehearing it

497
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: in your in your mind.

498
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 3: Okay, So this is a really great question. Can you

499
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 3: give me an example and I'm going to break it

500
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: down for you. Let me see and we can make

501
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: up an example. Yeah, like say, in an argument, oh

502
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 3: this is good. This is very vulnerable to me.

503
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: Okay.

504
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: In an argument that I had recently with Dave, he

505
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: said something that pissed me off and hurt my feelings.

506
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: He said, oh, now that you have a self help podcast,

507
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: you know everything, or something like that, and I was like, oouch, No,

508
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: that's not why I'm saying the things I'm saying. But

509
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: like when someone sort of belittles you or takes what

510
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: you is important to you and makes it something negative, Okay,

511
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: So who's Dave in your life? My husband?

512
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: Okay, So what do you think was going on for

513
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 3: him in that moment in his Let's let's take this

514
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: in stages. Let's lead with love, let's lead with love,

515
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: and let's go, let's go and stay. What do you

516
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 3: think was happening for him in that moment in his body?

517
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 3: If you were to put yourself literally, if you could

518
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: step into his body, into his nervous system, into his

519
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 3: entire physiology, the moments that led up to him saying

520
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: that to you, what do you think he was experiencing

521
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: in his body? Well?

522
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: I know that he works now on not fleeing, not

523
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: taking flight. Okay, So I know that he was in

524
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: that place of between being defensive about something and wanting

525
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: to just get the hell out of there. He was

526
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: kind of torn, okay, trying to figure that out in

527
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: his own mind. And think I think words were just

528
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: coming out to deflect or defend himself.

529
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: Okay.

530
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 3: And how do you think that state? How do you

531
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: think that manifested in his body? Was he tense, was

532
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: he sweating?

533
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: Was he nervous?

534
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 3: Do you think his heart rate was elevated or do

535
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: you think his heart rate was normal.

536
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: No, I think he was. Yeah, and it texts tense

537
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: and just felt like upset.

538
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, very unsure.

539
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 3: So you said something very important he became He felt

540
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 3: very uncertain. What do you think he was uncertain of?

541
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: I think maybe he would fear that I'm outgrowing him

542
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: or I don't have a place for him in my

543
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: life in some way.

544
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: Yes, So in that moment, he was uncertain of his

545
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 3: importance to you, his significance to you, he was uncertain

546
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: of your love in that moment. Not saying that you

547
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 3: did that, We're just trying to get into his nervous

548
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 3: system and what he was experiencing. M So in that

549
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 3: moment of do I fight, do I flee? Oh my god,

550
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: I'm trying to work on not fleeing. So I'm going

551
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: to be here right now. I'm really used to fleeing.

552
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: Fleeing is how I how I go into my cave

553
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: and I protect myself.

554
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 2: But here I have to stay and I'm totally ill equipped.

555
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,479
Speaker 3: I don't have this skills yet to actually communicate, and

556
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 3: I feel not enough right now, but I don't know

557
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 3: that consciously. But my heart rate is going up, my

558
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: blood pressure is going up, because right now the saber

559
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 3: tooth tiger is the fact that I might not be

560
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 3: good enough, I might lose love. I'm not going to

561
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 3: be the man that I need that I need to be,

562
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 3: And so I'm going to say something totally immature and

563
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 3: totally inappropriate because tagger and exactly because I am so

564
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 3: frickin scared. That does not excuse it. It's still like

565
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: an immature thing to say. But your original question is

566
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 3: how do you stop ruminating about it? You're ruminating about

567
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 3: it because you're giving it a meaning. He doesn't care,

568
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 3: He belittles everything like that. What I'm trying to point

569
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 3: out is that is the humanity behind that statement, and

570
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: so it does mean that it doesn't need to be addressed,

571
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 3: or it's not doesn't hurt, or doesn't sting.

572
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: But you can.

573
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: Stop ruminating about it because the meaning that you give

574
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 3: him give to what he said can now change to oh,

575
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: I understand more of why he said that, and that

576
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 3: might give.

577
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 2: You your your mind a little bit of freedom. Does it?

578
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 3: It? Does? It?

579
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: Really does? I think that's so important to sort of,

580
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: maybe not in the heat of the moment, but afterwards,

581
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: to take yourself aside and get quiet and think about

582
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: like why what is he feeling that made him say that?

583
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 3: But even in the moment, what you can practice doing

584
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 3: is saying, but let's take a deep breath.

585
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: I love you. I know you're probably really fucking scared

586
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: right now. I am too.

587
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 3: I'm really frustrated to I don't like what you said,

588
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 3: but I love you. I'm not going anywhere. I obviously

589
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 3: don't know your marriage. But this is just an example of,

590
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 3: you know, how can we get to the core of it,

591
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: and how can we do it faster?

592
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: How can we do it actually in the moment.

593
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that for me, starts with like a

594
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: deep breath.

595
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: Always like a major deep breath. Okay, yeah, that's saying

596
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 2: a moment, it's a time out.

597
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, even if it only lasts for a few seconds.

598
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 3: Yes, And then when you start to think about it

599
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 3: this way, it creates empathy because then you're like, oh, right,

600
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 3: this person didn't actually mean to be like, yeah, stupid

601
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 3: immature thing for him to say. It was just his

602
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: seven year old coming out because he felt so afraid,

603
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 3: and maybe yeah, he fell back into a corner. He

604
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 3: felt afraid, and yes, as a married couple, you want

605
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 3: to be working towards making sure that the inner teenager

606
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 3: and inner child comes out less and less right.

607
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 2: But if we can have compassion for each other in

608
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: those moments, yep, then you can have compassion under standing

609
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 2: for him, and then he can be like, you know what,

610
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: because by him feeling seen in that way, he you know,

611
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 2: the goal would be like you know what, I wish

612
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 2: I didn't say that, you know, I'm sorry. And that's

613
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: really the process of repair.

614
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 3: And so that's what I mean by you're not Really

615
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 3: it's not about seeing the monster, but can you see

616
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 3: like where they could be coming from, and so that

617
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 3: stops the rumination.

618
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: It's so easy for people to get caught up in

619
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: their own stresses, in their own lives. I know I

620
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: am guilty of this.

621
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we get very self and working. Yeah yes, yeah, I.

622
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: Hate that about I hate that as a characteristic of myself.

623
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: I don't ever want to be self consumed, but sometimes

624
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: it happens. Yes, I'm being honest. That can lead to

625
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: disconnection from your partner. Yes, my therapist always taught me

626
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: it's circle, square circle. There are two circles, the two

627
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: people in the relationship, and then there's that square in

628
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: the middle where we're feeding that square. We're putting good things,

629
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: energies into that square, and we're creating that space that

630
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 1: is just ours together. Yeah, but sometimes my circle gets

631
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: so big and loud and busy that I can disconnect.

632
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: I can start just trudging ahead, you know, full steam ahead.

633
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: How important is it for people to somehow maintain their

634
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: own identity in a relationship but also remember to feed

635
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: that square, that middle space.

636
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: You know, it's an interesting thing.

637
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 3: A lot of times when people say, I want, you know,

638
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 3: I don't want to lose myself in the relationship. I

639
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 3: want to know the story around that, because sometimes sometimes

640
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 3: it's very legitimate. Oh I lose myself in the relationship,

641
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 3: but I want to know what that means to someone,

642
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 3: Like what does it mean to you personally to lose

643
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 3: yourself in a relationship? And then what's your story around that?

644
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 3: Because a lot of times we'll sort of like we'll

645
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 3: have this internal battle, will be it war with ourselves, like,

646
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 3: oh my god, I want to be available, but I

647
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 3: also want time for myself. I want to be available,

648
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 3: I want time for myself, And then we think we

649
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 3: get resentful towards our partner, when really it's the battle

650
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 3: that we're facing that we're battling with ourselves. It's a

651
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 3: story that we have about autonomy and losing ourselves in

652
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 3: a relationship, and we think that the other person or

653
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 3: the relationship is the threat, when really the threat is

654
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 3: our belief system around it. So that's different if I

655
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 3: was working with someone who was highly codependent. And what

656
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: I mean by that is that in their relationships they

657
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 3: abandon everything about themselves and only focus on their partner.

658
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 3: They really they don't talk about their needs. They don't.

659
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 3: It's it's it's it can be quite severe. We're always

660
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 3: trying to figure out again that balance between autonomy and

661
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 3: being with the other person. But whenever I say, whenever

662
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 3: I hear people say I'm afraid of losing myself, I

663
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 3: always get curious about the story around that, because I

664
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 3: wonder if there's a little bit of story that needs

665
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 3: to be sort of readjusted and looked at a different way.

666
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 3: So when you're in that moment, so this is where

667
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 3: like the self awareness piece comes in. So when you're

668
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 3: in that moment, it's like you take the deep breath,

669
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 3: that's a moment to like have a seat, take a chill,

670
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 3: and just be like Okay.

671
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: What am I?

672
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 3: Like?

673
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: What's my deal right now? Why am I? Why am I.

674
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 3: Spinning right now? What's the story that I have? What's

675
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 3: the fear that I have? What's the worry that I have?

676
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 3: And so that's how that's literally how you do it.

677
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 3: It's and it's just getting really practiced at when you're

678
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 3: in that state, and sometimes you just have to sit

679
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 3: down and be like, what do I need right now?

680
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 3: Because maybe you need a hug, maybe what you actually

681
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 3: need is more connection, or maybe what you need is

682
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 3: a bath or I don't know, but checking in with

683
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 3: yourself when you're kind of like in that moment, like

684
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 3: what's what are the thoughts? Because feelings are faster than thoughts,

685
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 3: you have to kind of sit down. You got to

686
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: slow down, and then you can just ask yourself, like,

687
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 3: what's going on with me right now? Why am I

688
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 3: spinning right now?

689
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: I think that's such a good thing. A good takeaway

690
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 1: for people is to check in with themselves and ask

691
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: themselves what they need.

692
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: It's the self awareness. Yeah, it's the self awareness for sure.

693
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: You said before about codependency. Yeah, I heard this morning

694
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: in a conversation interdependency. Yeah, please tell me the difference sure,

695
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: because I for a long time have said, yeah, I'm codependent,

696
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: and I'm proud of it, Like, yeah, I have no

697
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: problem with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't feel like

698
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: it's damaging. But I'm intrigued by this concept of interdependency.

699
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: Okay, what is it?

700
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 3: So interdependency is just the it's just sort of the

701
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: dance between I need me and I need you and

702
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 3: I you know, codependencies gets this really bad rap and

703
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 3: everyone's like, oh, you're you're dependent, Like we need each other,

704
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 3: we need each other, and we need to depend on

705
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 3: each other.

706
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 2: True codependency is really again.

707
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 3: It's more I am going to abandon myself and only

708
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 3: focus on you, right. We see that a lot in

709
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 3: uh relationships where there's addiction and alcoholism. It's I'm just

710
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 3: going to focus on you and your sobriety or you

711
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: I'm just focusing on you getting sober, and I'm not

712
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 3: even thinking about what I need and what I want

713
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 3: and what makes me happy. And codependency is also when

714
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 3: it can go left right, when it can go astray

715
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 3: is when two people are making each other responsible for

716
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 3: their happiness and so neediness, which is not the same

717
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 3: thing as having needs, Neediness starts to prevail in that relationship,

718
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 3: and neediness prevails when it's like when you when you

719
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 3: think and you rely on your partner to fulfill you,

720
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 3: when really fulfillment is an inside job. Hopefully you're in

721
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 3: a relationship with someone. When I say you, I just

722
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 3: mean everyone. You get into relationships with someone who makes

723
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 3: your life better, you know, who supports you, who you

724
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 3: know it's not always going to be your go through

725
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 3: hard times, but at the end of the day, you're like, overall,

726
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 3: my life is better because.

727
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 2: We're in each other's lives.

728
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 3: But a lot of people they get into relationships with

729
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 3: this thing, with this idea that if I'm with the

730
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 3: right person, I'm always going to be happy, or you know,

731
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,439
Speaker 3: why isn't this person making me happy? When really it's

732
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 3: the relationship that we the goal. The whole essence behind

733
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 3: strengthening the relationship with ourselves is really learning how to

734
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 3: find meaning and fulfillment inside and in life without having

735
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 3: to outsource it constantly. That's really the essence of working

736
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 3: on oneself and so interdependence.

737
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: Again, it's a dance.

738
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 3: But I realize I'm responsible for my own happiness. I

739
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 3: have needs that I need to be able to meet

740
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 3: for myself and and I'm also a social animal, and

741
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 3: we are in partnership, and I need to rely on you.

742
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 3: Eric From said it best, and I'm butchering it a

743
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 3: little bit, but I'll get the gist. The person who

744
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 3: is mature in love is the person who needs the

745
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 3: person because they love them, doesn't love the person because

746
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 3: they need them.

747
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: That I need a minute with.

748
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's you kind of have to let

749
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 3: that settle in.

750
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: I love the person because I need them or I

751
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: need a person. Wait, what tell me?

752
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 3: Ideally you want to need your husband because you love

753
00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: him because you choose him, so you need him, versus

754
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 3: you love him and you choose him because.

755
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: You need him. Right, you want the first, I want

756
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: the first. The second one sounds like an unhealthy attachment.

757
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 3: It's neediness, and it usually speaks to, Okay, well, let's

758
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 3: talk about your life and how you can meet your

759
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 3: own needs and not just have someone in your life,

760
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 3: because you feel like if you don't have someone in

761
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 3: your life, you're no one, you know. So there's there's

762
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 3: a lot to really unpack in that statement alone, but

763
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 3: I think it really defines the essence of it.

764
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: All And it's so wild how throughout your timeline of

765
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: life you could have all these different relationships and experiences

766
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: and each of them can be different, like just depending

767
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: on the dance within the relationship.

768
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, And we're different people in different relationships.

769
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's so important for people to acknowledge

770
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: and recognize about themselves, Like we grow every single day,

771
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: like we're learning and changing all the time. And so

772
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: just because we maybe had a terrible experience or we

773
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 1: weren't our best selves in one situation relationship, it doesn't

774
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: mean that's how we are in all relationships.

775
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 3: Right exactly, Because a relationship is a dynamic between two

776
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 3: or more people, yep. And so we're these two separate

777
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 3: entities that come together and form this thing that we

778
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 3: share between us, which is our relationship, and how we

779
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:39,959
Speaker 3: interact with each other.

780
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 2: It changes. It depends on who you're in a relation.

781
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 2: That's why some people, you can be in a relationship.

782
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 3: And all your attachment issues come up with that person,

783
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 3: and then they're with someone else and it's really barely

784
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 3: coming up.

785
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: That's because who you choose matters.

786
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: Who you choose matter, who.

787
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 2: You choose matters.

788
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about like red flags. Let's say

789
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: you're looking for a partner. I learned I went after

790
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: my divorce and before I started dating, when I was

791
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: in that phase of like I don't want to start dating,

792
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: I'll just be alone forever. I'm good.

793
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I feeling.

794
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 1: My therapist was like, let's talk about your non negotiables.

795
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: What are the things that are most important to you

796
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 1: and really clarify what you want and what you don't want.

797
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: What are the subtle red flags that we shouldn't be

798
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: ignoring when we're looking for a partner, Like we can

799
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 1: go inside and reflect and talk about our think about

800
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: our no negotiables and what we want we don't want.

801
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: But what are red flags?

802
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: Like red flags like.

803
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 1: Yea, Well, there's the obvious like abusive, yes, right, verbally, physically, addiction, those.

804
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 2: Kinds of yesses.

805
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: But what are the the more secondary red flag?

806
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 3: Sure, so the secondary red flags are they bad mouth

807
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 3: their exes without ever taking any accountability. So that's that's

808
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 3: a big one. Yes, some red flags are. This is

809
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,399
Speaker 3: also age and stage of life dependent. But let's say

810
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,399
Speaker 3: you know you're over the age of thirty. They don't

811
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 3: have their life together, like they haven't figured out any

812
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: sort of purpose in life, or and they could be

813
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 3: like still sort of figuring that out. But after a

814
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 3: certain age, you want to make sure that someone has

815
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 3: some financial stability. You want to make sure.

816
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,280
Speaker 2: That they have just some stability. I think that's very important.

817
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 3: A red flag is also that they I mean, there's

818
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 3: just like how they treat the waiter, how they treat others,

819
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 3: how they treat themselves.

820
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 2: That's a big one.

821
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: Oh, I always watch how they treat the waiter, the waitress.

822
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you're looking for people with strong character, and

823
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 3: our work is to try to develop our own character.

824
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: So how they treat others, their.

825
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 3: Words and their actions, are they aligning or their actions

826
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 3: never really matching their words? Are they consistent with you

827
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 3: or are they totally inconsistent where you feel like you

828
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 3: just don't know where how this person feels about you

829
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 3: one minute they're really hot with you. Well that's a huge,

830
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 3: huge red flag and warrants. Yeah, here's the thing. These

831
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 3: secondary red flags warn't a conversation, Hey, I notice that

832
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 3: this is happening.

833
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 2: What's up? Or this is I know this this is happening?

834
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 2: Or I noticed you said something to your mother the

835
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: other day that wasn't just so nice, And I'm just curious.

836
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: I'd love to know a little bit.

837
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 3: More about what that relationship is like, you know. So

838
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 3: sometimes it's not about immediately writing the person off, but

839
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 3: just opening up for conversation and then seeing what it

840
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 3: is that they have to say about it.

841
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 2: Other red flags are they.

842
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 3: I mean, believe it or not, you don't share if

843
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,439
Speaker 3: you're looking for like long term partnership, you don't share

844
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 3: the same values.

845
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a red fag. That's that's that's an indication

846
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 2: that you should not be pursuing a relationship with them.

847
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 2: And then and then here's here's another thing that people

848
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 2: don't pay enough attention to. How do you feel when

849
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: you're with this person?

850
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 3: Do you feel comfortable sharing an opinion? Do you feel

851
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 3: comfortable being yourself?

852
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 1: Yes, that's so important.

853
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 2: It's very important.

854
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: I think again, it's just about asking yourself these questions

855
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: and listening for the real answers about how you're feeling. Yeah,

856
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: and not trying to sugarcoat or make things, you know,

857
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: rainbows and ponies. Yes, because you want something so badly. Yes,

858
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: it's not going to change, it's not going to change.

859
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 3: And I don't think that you should that anyone should

860
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 3: be seeing anyone for more than three months without a LA.

861
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: You don't think anybody should be seeing anybody for more

862
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: than three months without a label.

863
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are what are we? What are are we

864
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: working towards something? Are we monogamous? Like? What are we?

865
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 2: Are we?

866
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 3: What's going on? Don't don't let it stay in the

867
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 3: gray area. But a lot of people's, particularly women, will

868
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 3: let it stay in the gray air because they're afraid

869
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 3: and they you know, they don't want to say anything.

870
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 2: But don't three months.

871
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 3: You should know if you don't know after three months,

872
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 3: particularly if it's you know, some people, there's a very

873
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 3: slow start, there's travel, there's kids, you're not spending time.

874
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 3: But if you're spending consistent time with someone for three

875
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 3: months and you don't know, there's your answer.

876
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, there's your answer, whether you want to listen to.

877
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 2: It or not.

878
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

879
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 2: I also think you know. Another red flag is you're

880
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 2: spending consistent time together and there's no.

881
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 3: There's no integration of you into their life. You're not

882
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 3: meeting their friends, you're not meeting their family. Your relationship

883
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 3: on exists in a bubble with them. You got to

884
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,280
Speaker 3: be very careful that that doesn't happen, because you can't

885
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 3: know a person unless you know their world.

886
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 2: Can't truly, really truly learn.

887
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 3: About another person without seeing them interact with their friends,

888
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 3: with your friends, family, Like anyone can be cool when

889
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 3: you exist in a bubble.

890
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you got to look outside the bubble.

891
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 2: You have to.

892
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So I have a friend who is in

893
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: the throes of a breakup. Her boyfriend of eight years

894
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: ghosted her as his way of ending their relationship. Ghosted her. Oh,

895
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: what what do you do? How do you there's no closure,

896
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: there's what how do you move forward from that? What

897
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: are there things that she should be doing to help

898
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,240
Speaker 1: herself while she's healing from this trauma?

899
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, so let me ask me, guys, let me

900
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 3: ask you this. What how lucky is she to be

901
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 3: rid of this guy?

902
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't know him.

903
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 2: Oh, you didn't know him.

904
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: This is before we met, Okay, but I mean, was

905
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: it a different relationship with her after eight years? I'm

906
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: pretty sure it's a good thing that this is happening.

907
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's never a good thing, obviously to

908
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 3: get broken up with in that way and it's very,

909
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 3: very traumatizing. But what she needs to remember is that

910
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 3: I would imagine that leading up to that, things could

911
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 3: not be very easy.

912
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: Maybe she didn't acknowledge that or see that. Our wont to.

913
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 3: See that, Yes, but that's part of the healing process,

914
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 3: is to be able to acknowledge that and that one thing.

915
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 3: And this isn't going to take all her pain away,

916
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 3: But I think this is an important thing to realize

917
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 3: when a person goess, especially if they're ghosting a relationship

918
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 3: versus like a dating scenario, which is so much more serious.

919
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 3: They're only going to be haunted by their own ghost,

920
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 3: which is their conscience. I really believe that none of

921
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 3: us get away with anything in life.

922
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: No, And we may see seem like we do in

923
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 2: the immediate moment, in the moment, in the immediate.

924
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 3: But we never really do because that's going to weigh heavily.

925
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 2: On his conscience.

926
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 3: And or he's just going to bring that terrible immaturity

927
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,720
Speaker 3: to his next relationship and have more relationship pain.

928
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 2: So he's not going to get away with it. And

929
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 2: that's not going to take away her.

930
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 3: Pain, but maybe it'll take it'll ease the suffering a

931
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 3: little bit for her that he's not.

932
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 2: He's not scot free from this.

933
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 3: And I would also be very if I were speaking

934
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 3: to her, I'd be very curious to know, like what

935
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: what were the events and the things leading up to

936
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 3: this ghosting scenario?

937
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 2: How how bad was it.

938
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,479
Speaker 1: And if it was bad for one or the other,

939
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: why wasn't in.

940
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 3: A conversation, you know, because he couldn't handle it. He

941
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 3: couldn't handle it, And we don't know, We don't know

942
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 3: what was going on between the two of them. We

943
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,919
Speaker 3: don't know what would happen when he tried to talk

944
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 3: to her. We don't know what really goes on behind

945
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 3: closed doors in a person's relationship.

946
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 2: So true, but it's more.

947
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 3: About him than anything else, unless, you know, unless there

948
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 3: are scenarios where that happens, because every time you try

949
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 3: to talk to the person, they start kicking and screaming

950
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 3: quite literally. But more often than not, it's you know,

951
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 3: it's uh. The person is not ghosting because they're trying

952
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 3: to get themselves out of an unsafe situation.

953
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: They're ghosting because because of their own.

954
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 3: Character defects, right, they don't know how to handle it. Yeah,

955
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 3: they can't they're too too afraid, too mature.

956
00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh, there's so many much I could talk

957
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: to you. I want to have you back with my

958
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: husband on I don't know if you so much fun

959
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: it's it must be feel really good to be able

960
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 1: to help people on the level that you do.

961
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I try. I mean, I'm you know,

962
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 2: I'm humans.

963
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 3: So sometimes I feel like, you know, maybe I'm not

964
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 3: helping out and you know, like you get into your

965
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 3: head about stuff like that. But I do the best

966
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 3: that I can, and.

967
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: It does feel good when I am able to make

968
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:30,760
Speaker 2: any kind of impact.

969
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: So for sure, before I let you go, Jillian, what

970
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: was your last I Choose me moment?

971
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 3: Oh hmmm, you know, I think it was. It was

972
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 3: a very kind of like tempered I choose me. It

973
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 3: wasn't like a stand on the top of the mountain

974
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 3: like I Choose me kind of moment. Those moments exist, Okay,

975
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 3: those moments exist. Yeah, there's moments I guess and I'm

976
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 3: and I'm all, I'm here for them. It was more

977
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 3: like a quiet one of just I just kind of

978
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 3: had been in an emotional rut and couldn't figure it,

979
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 3: Like just feeling very easily triggered and not relationally, just

980
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 3: with life and just I guess stress. And I think

981
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 3: the I Choose Me moment was, you know what, like,

982
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 3: you're going back to your routine of meditation and yoga,

983
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 3: and you're not going to shorten it. You're actually going

984
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 3: to elongate it. Because this has gotten, it's getting it's

985
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 3: getting to the place of unmanageability, and so it's time

986
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 3: to actually put the folk, use the tools that you

987
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 3: have in your tool belt, and get back at to

988
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 3: the things that are really important and everything else will

989
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 3: have to wait.

990
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 2: And that was an I Choose Me moment, my most

991
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 2: recent one.

992
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: That's a pretty big one.

993
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 3: It is a pretty big one. Yeah, I guess it's

994
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 3: bigger than I thought.

995
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: So necessary. Yeah, so good, so good. I wish you

996
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,959
Speaker 1: every best thing, and congratulations so much on your book.

997
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate so much. It was so nice

998
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 2: to meet you and to talk with you.

999
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

1000
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1001
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: Okay, she was so good. I could literally listen to

1002
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: her for hours and talk with her. Even though I've

1003
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 1: learned so much, I just feel like there's so much

1004
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 1: more I could learn. We're going to have to get

1005
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 1: her back on the podcast. In the future, because I

1006
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: still have like a million more questions than I want

1007
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 1: to ask her, and I want my hub to sit

1008
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: here with me and talk to her. Is that weird?

1009
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,320
Speaker 1: That'll be wild? Okay? As we continue to choose ourselves

1010
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: each week, I want you this week to take a

1011
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: look at maybe what your attachment style is. We talked

1012
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 1: about it today. I kind of feel like I'm all

1013
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: of the attachment styles mixed into one, and that's okay.

1014
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're married, divorced, single, widowed. Take

1015
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: a ten minute quiz online and figure out what your

1016
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: attachment style is. Then you'll know. And like we said today,

1017
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that's how it's always going to be.

1018
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: It might be specific to just this relationship or just

1019
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: these lessons that you need to be focusing on learning

1020
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: right now. When we take the time to know more

1021
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: about what we need in a relationship or why we

1022
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: respond the way we do, it can lead us to

1023
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: making better choices for ourselves in the future. Thanks for

1024
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: listening to I Choose Me. You can check out all

1025
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: our social links in our show notes and go leave

1026
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: us a review on whatever platform you're on. Make sure

1027
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: to use the hashtag I choose me, I will be

1028
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: right here next week. I hope you choose to be

1029
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: here too,