Speaker 1: Today, we have Bridget Fetasye on the podcast. Bridget is
Speaker 1: a writer and stand up comedian who has contributed to
Speaker 1: a wide variety of publications such as Spectator USA, Huffington Post, Playboy,
Speaker 1: Tablet Magazine, The Washington Examiner, and Moore. As the owner
Speaker 1: and operator of Fetasie, Inc. She has built a digital
Speaker 1: media empire, leveraging existing platforms such as Twitter, YouTube, and
Speaker 1: locals to deliver insightful and compelling commentary and observations on
Speaker 1: current events. Her YouTube show dumpster Fire is a satirical
Speaker 1: commentary on the ridiculousness of the twenty four hour news cycle,
Speaker 1: and her weekly podcast Walkins Welcome has become staple listening
Speaker 1: for many influencers in the social media space. Bridget, what's up? Hi?
Speaker 1: We consider it a a media called to sack. It's
Speaker 1: not really an empire. Yet you wrote could a sac
Speaker 1: and you wrote coolzac. I should say, for the record,
Speaker 1: I take responsibility for calling it an empire. I appreciate
Speaker 1: your optimism and your belief in me. I wanted to
Speaker 1: signal belief. I wanted to belief. We're going with that
Speaker 1: cold a sack. Yeah, Hi, thanks for having me. We
Speaker 1: need to get you on the podcast. Oh, that'd be
Speaker 1: a lot of fun, that a lot of Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: do that have a crossover event. Cool, Well, let's get
Speaker 1: through this one first. You know, we're not done with
Speaker 1: this ship yet. I'm already like, welcome to my podcast.
Speaker 1: I know, I know that's so funny. Well look, okay,
Speaker 1: let me just take a step back and just make
Speaker 1: a meta comment. I really do I feel like I
Speaker 1: like your energy. Let me start off saying I like
Speaker 1: your energy. I feel like we're we have a similar
Speaker 1: sort of absurdity philosophy. Absurdity philosophy, So I want to
Speaker 1: start there because I really am an absurdist at heart,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I can't I certainly can't take
Speaker 1: myself too seriously. Like if I start to take myself
Speaker 1: too seriously, I get depressed, you know, yeah, And I
Speaker 1: feel like you're similar. Yeah. I always say I kind
Speaker 1: of have a mantra, take the work seriously, don't take
Speaker 1: yourself seriously. And I was thinking about the whole idea
Speaker 1: of startity yesterday when I had people taking me totally seriously.
Speaker 1: And you make a joke on Twitter, and it just
Speaker 1: is an endless barrage of people taking it seriously and
Speaker 1: taking themselves seriously. And I was like, I would I
Speaker 1: could handle losing almost anything except my sense of humor,
Speaker 1: because I've used my sense of humor even I was thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, extremely, like what are the extreme things? Even
Speaker 1: my leg? I think I would would I rather lose
Speaker 1: my life, legs or my sense of humor? You know?
Speaker 1: I was asking myself this question, and losing your legs
Speaker 1: would suck completely, obviously, but it would suck way more
Speaker 1: if you had no sense of your word. I think
Speaker 1: about this all the time, believe it or not. I
Speaker 1: think about all the time as like like, please don't
Speaker 1: take away you know, you could take away all my
Speaker 1: other dignities, but not my sense of humor. It's I'm
Speaker 1: Irish Catholic, and I don't you know we laughed it wakes.
Speaker 1: It's really how I've I've I've seen myself through some
Speaker 1: very dark times in my life. I was kind of
Speaker 1: the jester in my rehab. I always just wanted to
Speaker 1: make people laugh there. I have been in situations that
Speaker 1: are dark and I've really wanted to light lighten them
Speaker 1: up because it's I find that it is the best
Speaker 1: way to get through any kind of hell. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have to be able to laugh at it. It's
Speaker 1: at a certain point, even even when it's really gnarly.
Speaker 1: I agree. I mean, are you ever in like a
Speaker 1: dark situation and you make a joke and people are like,
Speaker 1: that's inappropriate, you know, and you almost want to be like,
Speaker 1: but if I didn't joke, I would go insane? You know? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's my alternative? You know? Yeah, I mean even there's
Speaker 1: I also don't think that it's right for people to
Speaker 1: take away your agency about joking about dark things. People
Speaker 1: always people will often go after people for rape jokes,
Speaker 1: for example, and I feel like they've helped me. I
Speaker 1: was drugged and raped, I have joking about it has
Speaker 1: helped me heal that part of it. And it also
Speaker 1: hearing people make funny jokes about it and being able
Speaker 1: to laugh at it has taken me from being a
Speaker 1: victim and out of that victimhood mentality that would be
Speaker 1: so easy to identify with. So I feel like it's
Speaker 1: really helped me process that that horrible thing and move
Speaker 1: through it in a way that I can. You know,
Speaker 1: it's still a very serious thing, obviously, but it's not
Speaker 1: something that's going to define me for the rest of
Speaker 1: my life. That's really really interesting. Do you forget like
Speaker 1: non victim shaming by victims of sexual assault who say,
Speaker 1: who don't want you to like like they want you
Speaker 1: to kind of stay in the victimhood mode because I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is actually a very sensitive topic obviously,
Speaker 1: But does that ever happen? Because I see this happen
Speaker 1: sometimes some people who go through such a terrible thing,
Speaker 1: and then you know, they say, well, I'm no longer
Speaker 1: a victim, but those who are who are not there yet,
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like you can't pull off
Speaker 1: someone's defenses. That's what That's one of the biggest thing
Speaker 1: we learnt in psychology. If I have a client who's
Speaker 1: not there yet, you know, you can't just say, oh,
Speaker 1: just stopping a victim, you know what I mean. I
Speaker 1: know you're not saying that, but you see what I'm saying. No,
Speaker 1: I think that there's an over all tendency and the
Speaker 1: culture to want to be sensitive. And I appreciate. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's a horrible thing. I appreciate that everybody
Speaker 1: is is it's so much of it feels like I mean,
Speaker 1: I say that, but I think a lot of it
Speaker 1: just feels like lip service. So there there seems to
Speaker 1: be people who will come after me and say, oh,
Speaker 1: you know this, that might be funny for you, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't funny for me. And there are a lot
Speaker 1: of other people who are seeing this and they've been
Speaker 1: through something, and you know, it should have a trigger
Speaker 1: warning or it should be it should be something that
Speaker 1: you take more seriously because other people take it seriously
Speaker 1: and I just can't. I am not responsible for every
Speaker 1: single the way every single person in the world interprets
Speaker 1: something that I say or a tweet that they might
Speaker 1: see of my or joke or I'm not response. It's
Speaker 1: like the first thing you learn and recovery. It's like
Speaker 1: none of my business how people feel. And interestingly enough,
Speaker 1: another way of framing that. Another way of framing that
Speaker 1: is that people need to take some sort of responsibility
Speaker 1: for themselves in how they are affected by words or
Speaker 1: a joke. That's another way of framing it, you know,
Speaker 1: as opposed to kind of getting the pressure off you,
Speaker 1: you know, to some degree. I think, you know, responsibility
Speaker 1: needs to happen in every kind of direction. I feel
Speaker 1: like that's a healthy thing. I mean, that was the
Speaker 1: first thing I learned in rehab when I was nineteen.
Speaker 1: I remember I was whining about how all the girls
Speaker 1: were some of the girls were pushing my buttons, and
Speaker 1: the women who saved my life at that rehab, they
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, and they're your buttons, So why don't
Speaker 1: you start looking at why these things are upsetting you?
Speaker 1: And obviously some things are upsetting in the world, and
Speaker 1: you have a right to react to them and to
Speaker 1: push back or to feel like there's an injustice or
Speaker 1: to feel up set. But there is a certain I
Speaker 1: know that I love that. There's so many platitudes that
Speaker 1: I love, the one being put down the microscope and
Speaker 1: pick up the mirror. You know, you'll be like hyper
Speaker 1: focusing on something that someone either said to you, or
Speaker 1: some perceived slight or perceived grievance, and or something someone
Speaker 1: else is doing, or for every finger that you're pointing,
Speaker 1: their three pointing back at you. This is really why
Speaker 1: I love Jonathan Height and so much of his work,
Speaker 1: and I do want to have that quote of his
Speaker 1: that's we're all self righteous hypocrites who are so good
Speaker 1: at putting on a show of virtue that we forget
Speaker 1: we're even putting on a show, and I have to
Speaker 1: That's where the sense of humor comes in because I
Speaker 1: have to remember that, I mean, we on dumpster Fire
Speaker 1: will be making jokes and we'll contradict our I was
Speaker 1: two seconds later, and I love that. I have to
Speaker 1: be able to laugh at that. There's a certain kind
Speaker 1: of personality that like they can kind of come at
Speaker 1: you with a certain sanctimonious tone, and you know it
Speaker 1: just by the tone, even though you don't you don't
Speaker 1: need to hear the words, you know, like even if
Speaker 1: even if you couldn't, like if it was a different language,
Speaker 1: let's say it was like cling on, like, it would
Speaker 1: still be the same, Like you'd be like you like,
Speaker 1: I know, I know that you're being sanctimonious, right, But
Speaker 1: usually when that when that is coming at me, it
Speaker 1: usually lacks all humor. Like now, I'm not saying there
Speaker 1: needs to be humor in every situation, like obviously, but
Speaker 1: that person I feel like I can't engage with them
Speaker 1: in any kind of relational human like I find humor
Speaker 1: is really good as a relational way, is dissolving tensions.
Speaker 1: I think it's an underestimated, you know, like tool for
Speaker 1: that people can use. Who even hate each other, you know,
Speaker 1: like it can even be funny, even just saying like,
Speaker 1: oh look it's my arch nemesis Bob again, you know,
Speaker 1: like and both of them laughing, like there's something about
Speaker 1: that that steps you both above yourselves, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: but you know what I'm saying, there's a certain kind
Speaker 1: of person that can kind of come me with a
Speaker 1: certain sanctimonious tone that you feel like you can't even
Speaker 1: like we're not allowed to play at all, No, we can't,
Speaker 1: like really like zero. Yeah, it's people who take themselves
Speaker 1: too seriously, and it's people looking for a fence everywhere
Speaker 1: they go, which is really just self important, you know,
Speaker 1: finding ways to be offended everywhere in the world is
Speaker 1: really just thinking that you are so important that I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I come I feel like an old
Speaker 1: lady most of the time when I'm dealing with younger people,
Speaker 1: because I come from just like a who gives a shit.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can swear on here, but
Speaker 1: my family was very just like you're nothing not you know,
Speaker 1: they're East Coast. They're kind of just like the world
Speaker 1: doesn't owe you anything. What can you bring to the
Speaker 1: world You didn't get up and try and make the
Speaker 1: best of things. I found that my life really change
Speaker 1: changed a lot when I started waking up and I
Speaker 1: started saying, and when I don't do this, I notice
Speaker 1: a huge difference in my day. What can I bring
Speaker 1: to the world instead of what can I get? Because
Speaker 1: I will easily fall into I'm not getting enough. I
Speaker 1: don't have enough. Why does X have more than me?
Speaker 1: Why aren't I? Where are my accolades? How come no
Speaker 1: one's giving me credit? You know that all the like
Speaker 1: stupid trivialties of the ego that you get trapped in
Speaker 1: and mostly just results oriented feelings that are outside of
Speaker 1: me being in the process or me being in the work,
Speaker 1: or me being in the moment. I love that. Do
Speaker 1: you ever feel though you may go too far and
Speaker 1: you could use a little more self respect? Like do
Speaker 1: you ever find that you can go so opposite in
Speaker 1: that direction that like you like you don't stand out
Speaker 1: for yourself? Sometimes just curious, Probably I'm maybe not I
Speaker 1: don't stand up for myself, but I probably I probably
Speaker 1: could use some positive affirmations or something. In the morning,
Speaker 1: I feel like I want to give you some positive afformation. No,
Speaker 1: I mean my self talk is not great, you know.
Speaker 1: I definitely have that East Coast kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: what do you thinking better than Usbritt, that that voice
Speaker 1: is the voice in my head and it's not and self.
Speaker 1: I've used self deprecation as a tool to survive when
Speaker 1: I was moving a lot, and also just it's part
Speaker 1: of we were kind of raised and just not take
Speaker 1: ourselves seriously. My We talked. My cousin Maggie and I
Speaker 1: talk about this all the time. It's like you have
Speaker 1: to learn how to laugh at yourself where everyone else
Speaker 1: will be laughing at you. It's just as it was
Speaker 1: a functional tool and a ginormous Irish Catholic family. I
Speaker 1: always joked that my upbringing was a roast battle. You know,
Speaker 1: you just had to it was sink or swim, And
Speaker 1: self deprecation is a is a way to make people comfortable.
Speaker 1: Is very useful, particularly when you're a woman trying to
Speaker 1: or a young teenage girl trying to navigate multiple junior
Speaker 1: highs and high schools. So some of that is just
Speaker 1: I think habit, you know, but I also think self
Speaker 1: deprecation is hilarious. It's good to be able to poke
Speaker 1: fun at yourself. But yeah, I mean probably I could
Speaker 1: use a little bit more self esteem. But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not just feel I feel fine. I probably have
Speaker 1: you know, body dysmorphia, and I don't know. It's so
Speaker 1: you know, we have such a hard time seeing ourselves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's true. I just I don't think we it's so
Speaker 1: hard to see and so much of social media and
Speaker 1: everything that we're projecting. It is just that it's a projection.
Speaker 1: I'll get so many tweets and I'm like, wow, this
Speaker 1: is a whole lot of projection one little tweet. But
Speaker 1: it must feel good self esteem wise, to know you've
Speaker 1: so many people who love you, I mean they adore you.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm not talking about a little I'm talking
Speaker 1: about a lot of people. Like what does that do
Speaker 1: to your self esteem? I don't know. I try not to.
Speaker 1: I try. I can't really make it based on there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people who hate me and I do
Speaker 1: I you know, I don't look at my analytics people.
Speaker 1: I don't look at analytics for my podcast. I say,
Speaker 1: I have to stay out of that because a being
Speaker 1: that it's a weird thing when you are the brand
Speaker 1: this new, this new, you know, which I knew was coming,
Speaker 1: even in two thousand and five when I started fetasy,
Speaker 1: and it's I'm not as great as taking it not
Speaker 1: so personally. You know, every subscriber, every person who owns
Speaker 1: some describes that it could be financial. I could have
Speaker 1: ninety percent of it could have nothing to do with me,
Speaker 1: but some of it could be actually because of something
Speaker 1: I said or did, and so trying to detach a
Speaker 1: little bit from that and taking it personally can be challenging.
Speaker 1: And again it's I have to do. It's like doing
Speaker 1: the spiritual work. As much as I think that word's
Speaker 1: been destroyed. When I'm not in that place is generally
Speaker 1: when I'm more suspect to letting how many people like
Speaker 1: or hate me. I mean, it really is like the
Speaker 1: if poem Rudyard Kipling. It's just we had that growing up,
Speaker 1: and I really think that that is it's like not
Speaker 1: letting praise or blame or how many people love you
Speaker 1: or hate you really get kind of finding that nice
Speaker 1: space where you can appreciate those things and taking criticism
Speaker 1: that is meaningful and also just be uh self contained human.
Speaker 1: Bridget fantasy. You. I tested you with my question and
Speaker 1: you passed with flying colors. That was exactly that was
Speaker 1: the right answer everything he just said. Answer, you know,
Speaker 1: because like if you if you responded like yes, my followers,
Speaker 1: you know, like my entire self esteem is based on
Speaker 1: whether or not they like me or not, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: we need to talk. But I loved your answer. I
Speaker 1: loved that so much. Thank you. You know you based
Speaker 1: on that, we can't it can't be. Yeah, I see
Speaker 1: what that does to young women, even like YouTube influence
Speaker 1: Instagram influencers, and they have public breakdowns because it's too
Speaker 1: much on the external. Again, John, you mentioned Jonathan Heider earlier.
Speaker 1: He's definitely uh pinpointed that, you know, the depression and
Speaker 1: a lot of these anxiety issues are teenage girls. It's
Speaker 1: they get a big run of a lot of the
Speaker 1: mental health issues because of the online presence and bullying
Speaker 1: and stuff. Yeah, I can't imagine what it's like to
Speaker 1: be a young person online right now and in the
Speaker 1: world just as unsettled as it is, and growing up
Speaker 1: and feeling like the adults are just as afraid and
Speaker 1: historyonic and confused as the average teenager is, and looking
Speaker 1: around and not really feeling like there's any real sense
Speaker 1: of truth or any real, any real direction that makes sense,
Speaker 1: and I definitely understand, you know, when you do start.
Speaker 1: I have this ongoing joke of like, we must feed
Speaker 1: the algorithm, we must feed the algorithm, and it's like
Speaker 1: this little I imagine the algorithm is this little troll
Speaker 1: under a bridge you need to kind of pay tribute
Speaker 1: to in order to get and once you're once, you're
Speaker 1: in that. Even YouTube is a great example because I
Speaker 1: wasn't I wasn't willing to go on YouTube until I
Speaker 1: could be consistent, which I know is part of what
Speaker 1: makes something like YouTube successful. If you're going to go
Speaker 1: on there and you see analytically, you know people who
Speaker 1: will look at the analytics when when I'll just I
Speaker 1: get secondhand reports about analytics, like how is it doing?
Speaker 1: But you can absolutely see I can see it just
Speaker 1: in subscribers or t shirt sales. There's a big jump
Speaker 1: when you feed the algorithm. So I can understand that
Speaker 1: that pressure to keep giving the content and keep feeding
Speaker 1: it with more, and I think it contributes to a
Speaker 1: lot of the breakdowns you see with some of these influencers.
Speaker 1: You're right, I mean like a drug You're right, Like
Speaker 1: a drug pusher will give you more drugs, Like, if
Speaker 1: you have the money, the drug pusher will give you
Speaker 1: more drugs. The drug pusher's not saying, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm cutting you off, you know, like like I really
Speaker 1: care about you and your well being and I don't
Speaker 1: want you to get addicted. You know, like you know
Speaker 1: how many drug dealers say that, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: you hear about this in the rooms of recovery because
Speaker 1: usually you're driving your drug dealer insane and they're like,
Speaker 1: leave me alone, you have a problems. So it does occur,
Speaker 1: but yeah, there's not in the digital realm, there's not
Speaker 1: much of As somebody who does wrestle with addiction, it
Speaker 1: is something I absolutely have to watch out for, and
Speaker 1: that dopamine hit that you're getting and the refreshing and
Speaker 1: all the rewards you get and the way that it's
Speaker 1: made so that it's you just never know, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not I forget what the exact term is. When
Speaker 1: it's like it comes in at different times. It's not
Speaker 1: like you get, you know, one hundred likes every hour
Speaker 1: you get sometimes it's like a thousand, and sometimes there's
Speaker 1: a term for this. It's in Yeah, it's reinforcements. Intermittent, Yeah, reinforcements.
Speaker 1: It's all designed to get it hucked. And I and
Speaker 1: even just from the perspective of like, let's say take
Speaker 1: a very simple metric like followers, there's I know it
Speaker 1: will never be enough. It doesn't matter. I know, I
Speaker 1: could have Rihanna level of followings and it will not
Speaker 1: satisfy the desire for more. And so that piece is
Speaker 1: something I really have to do a shitload of work
Speaker 1: around on a pretty daily on a daily basis. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at you, I'm listening to you, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you sound like you have your head your head on
Speaker 1: your shoulders here, you know. But I've heard I have
Speaker 1: some quotes from you from some of your other interviews
Speaker 1: that I just want to read some things you've said.
Speaker 1: You said, quote, I'm an after school special in real life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you said. You said, I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: in a giant game of improv. That's also another one.
Speaker 1: Another one thing you said is growing up, I didn't
Speaker 1: know what my values were. And I guess that was
Speaker 1: growing up with a religious family. You know, you didn't
Speaker 1: know what your own personal values were, right, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I had I had good values instilled in this
Speaker 1: sense that I had really great manners. I knew not
Speaker 1: to hurt people. I just those kind of basic ones.
Speaker 1: I think when I say that, I mean more more
Speaker 1: in the perspective now being in the weird kind of
Speaker 1: space that I'm in. What are the values that I
Speaker 1: would kind of die for? You know? What are what
Speaker 1: are the hills I will die on? And I don't
Speaker 1: think that I I thought through in terms of just
Speaker 1: the culture wars, or in terms of the culture or
Speaker 1: how I was in my twenties. I really am a
Speaker 1: bleeding heart liberal. Still my default reaction to every single
Speaker 1: news story is lived hard. You know, yeah, really it
Speaker 1: really is just like that is my factory settings. I
Speaker 1: was born and raised a blue blood liberal. Everything I
Speaker 1: automatically It's still something I have to really I know
Speaker 1: my bias, you know, I know that I'm coming from
Speaker 1: and always the place that although I've lost a lot
Speaker 1: of trust in anything that's been presented, but I think
Speaker 1: that I come from a place of wanting to feeling
Speaker 1: like only the left wing about people and the right
Speaker 1: wing doesn't, you know. So that's just where I grew
Speaker 1: up and came from, and that is a weird cultural
Speaker 1: value to hold because it otherises so that's not a word,
Speaker 1: but it otherises so many of my countrymen. And what
Speaker 1: I've realized is I do think most people care, you know,
Speaker 1: about other people, and it's just going about helping those
Speaker 1: people in different ways and what's the best way to
Speaker 1: actually help people in most of it in the media,
Speaker 1: just and politics seems like live service where people are
Speaker 1: just being used as populations to kind of manipulate and
Speaker 1: fight with each other. So I don't even believe that
Speaker 1: anyone's trying to help anyone on that kind of bigger
Speaker 1: the parade or the show that we get from our
Speaker 1: from from the media and our politicians. But on the
Speaker 1: individual level, I don't think that I really ever considered
Speaker 1: what free speech was. You know, when I didn't go
Speaker 1: to college, I was drunk for like most of my twenties,
Speaker 1: and I do feel like I came out of a
Speaker 1: blackout and then got thrown into a giant game of improv,
Speaker 1: which there have been moments where I'm like, what, Like
Speaker 1: Glenn going on Glenn Back Show was a perfect example.
Speaker 1: I remember sitting across the room and having a moment
Speaker 1: being like, Wow, this improv game has got taken on
Speaker 1: a life of its own. You know, You're like, yes,
Speaker 1: and now I'll go it's all been I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's been super wild and interesting because I've I've I've
Speaker 1: really had to kind of grow up publicly, and I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm going to get a lot wrong, a lot.
Speaker 1: I love that humility. Just to circle back on the
Speaker 1: political things you were saying, do you still just do
Speaker 1: you still describe self is politically homeless? Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: feel like anyone represents really and maybe there's some I
Speaker 1: feel more libertarian, I guess than anything else, but I
Speaker 1: don't really know what that means. I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: I I that's what I mean. Like because you have
Speaker 1: like right libertarians, you have left libertarians. It's like the
Speaker 1: different lot of varieties. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not really sure.
Speaker 1: I know that I want less government, and I know
Speaker 1: that I'm with Nick Lesbie saying, you know, I want
Speaker 1: less government doing the things that they do better than
Speaker 1: they're doing them, like doing a few things. Well, I
Speaker 1: live in California, as you know, and it seems like
Speaker 1: we have the biggest government of any of the states.
Speaker 1: And I drive around and it doesn't I don't I
Speaker 1: feel like Cardi B. You know, I'm like, where is
Speaker 1: my money? Where's my money going? Now, that's a conversation
Speaker 1: i'd like to see on your podcast, you and Cardi B.
Speaker 1: She's fascinating to me. But yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's so it's weird to be in
Speaker 1: the position of I understand, like, for example, there's there's
Speaker 1: so much anger in the streets right now, you know there,
Speaker 1: and much of it I think is justifiable, some of it,
Speaker 1: and I think conservatives have this desire to be like, well,
Speaker 1: look at the facts. It's like, okay, that is good,
Speaker 1: but we still have to address there's some like big
Speaker 1: fundamental problems that we can't just ignore either. And as
Speaker 1: somebody who's a bleeding heart liberal at heart, I'll see,
Speaker 1: you know, videos of a mother crying and a community
Speaker 1: and pain, and I'm like, that's real pain that they're in.
Speaker 1: This isn't like manufactured, you know. There these there are
Speaker 1: communities that have been disadvantaged and looked over and have
Speaker 1: been treated differently, and to ignore that is just ridiculous
Speaker 1: to me. And it's why I sometimes feel like on
Speaker 1: the on the right, there's this tendency to want to
Speaker 1: kind of factualize everything away, which I also understand because
Speaker 1: being the person of like coming from a liberal background
Speaker 1: and being thrown into this crazy culture war and now
Speaker 1: having to evaluate every story like, Okay, we're gonna pause.
Speaker 1: Even if my automatic reaction to this is like are
Speaker 1: you fucking kidding me again? You know, like again with this,
Speaker 1: even if that's my just default reaction, I have to
Speaker 1: take a step and pause and breathe and wait for
Speaker 1: more information and and not and try and reasonably evaluate things.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I think everyone's just reacting right now,
Speaker 1: all across the board. Our culture is so reactive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a whole list of quotes here from you.
Speaker 1: So you've called that commodified outrage, that's what you've referred
Speaker 1: to it. But also even just in our Twitter DMS,
Speaker 1: I have a quote here from you histrionic disorders are
Speaker 1: running rampant. Do you how are these linked? You know?
Speaker 1: Some of that out It's so hard because some of
Speaker 1: the outrage is real and justified, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to minimize that. Some of it is being absolutely amplified.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like there's any incentive for anyone to
Speaker 1: dial it down, not politicians, not the media, not the individual.
Speaker 1: Because we live in a society where victimhood is now
Speaker 1: something that you can you can make money off of.
Speaker 1: You obviously get more control over your population. If they're
Speaker 1: divided and fighting with each other. You obviously have to
Speaker 1: have two sides fighting one another if you're in the
Speaker 1: kind of talking head pundit media space where you need
Speaker 1: that back and forth to keep your little grievance making
Speaker 1: machines going. And I mean everybody's being sold grievances. It's
Speaker 1: just everyone. There's no no one's no one is immune
Speaker 1: to that, really, and myself included, I have to I
Speaker 1: have to watch watch it too. But and then you
Speaker 1: have the like social media, yeah, thrown on top of
Speaker 1: all of this, and people just it's like bad overacting,
Speaker 1: you know. I feel like everyone's become a method actor
Speaker 1: where they're like, and now I've got my shot, and
Speaker 1: I cried tears of joe and relief, tears of sadness,
Speaker 1: tears of rage. It's like, just get your fucking shark,
Speaker 1: Just get your shot and like go home, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just seems so melodramatic. It's history.
Speaker 1: It is historyonics, it's and I one of my favorite
Speaker 1: things on Dumpster Fire is faux astrianics. I love like
Speaker 1: faux out That's my favorite thing to do on that show.
Speaker 1: It's this way where I can express this kind of
Speaker 1: fake outrage because it seems it's so funny. It comes
Speaker 1: from everywhere. You just see all of these insanely pose
Speaker 1: I asked you if you were in a clubhouse, and
Speaker 1: he said, no, it's trap house. And by the way,
Speaker 1: that made me laugh. That's my friend. The way I
Speaker 1: can't I didn't know that. I thought it was yours.
Speaker 1: I thought I was yours. No, no, no no, that's my friend.
Speaker 1: I can't take credit for that. But I also can't
Speaker 1: out who said that. But yeah, that's not mine. But
Speaker 1: I feel the same way. But but you know, I
Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot of material here if you
Speaker 1: were on a clubhouse, because there's a phrase that I
Speaker 1: heard someone news the other day. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: trauma dumping is what it's called trauma dumping the clubhouse.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, if you're a moderator, and I
Speaker 1: like to moderate welcoming rooms, et cetera, you you'll get
Speaker 1: in a lot of trouble if someone's trauma dumping and
Speaker 1: you dismiss it, or you you don't give them a
Speaker 1: full hearing, or you don't show you know a lot
Speaker 1: of concern, you know, and and and say thanks so
Speaker 1: much for vulnerability. But what's difficult sometimes from a moderator
Speaker 1: perspective is you want to keep things moving. Like let's
Speaker 1: say you're having it just a discussion, like a great
Speaker 1: discussion intellectual or a great discussion that's advancing things, and
Speaker 1: someone just like comes in and trauma dumps for like
Speaker 1: twenty minutes. It's so it's actually quite disruptive to the
Speaker 1: you know, to the conversation. Now, I feel that's even
Speaker 1: insensitive saying that, you know what I mean. It's like
Speaker 1: it's like I just heard myself saying that, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's how insensitive. But there's a time and place for
Speaker 1: trauma dumping, I guess, is what I'm saying. That Does
Speaker 1: context matter anymore? Yeah, it should matter. I don't know
Speaker 1: that it does, because again, we take everything out of context.
Speaker 1: So my experience with Clubhouse I got in early ish,
Speaker 1: probably even earlier then I could have probably gotten earlier
Speaker 1: if I had responded to any of any of the emails.
Speaker 1: But I got in and I was listening and my husband,
Speaker 1: who's also a therapist, was listening with me. I was like,
Speaker 1: you got to check this out. This is wild, and
Speaker 1: he's like, this is group therapy, like one of the
Speaker 1: rooms where you're in, and so I started joking and
Speaker 1: then it turned into a struggle session. So I was like, club,
Speaker 1: I was come for the group therapy, stay for the
Speaker 1: struggle session. It was so bizarre. It was bizarre to me.
Speaker 1: It felt so you know, I started feeling guilty because
Speaker 1: I felt like a voyeur in this very and yeah, they,
Speaker 1: like my husband was saying, there's so much therapy language
Speaker 1: being used, holding space, you know, like the trauma. And
Speaker 1: I mean the one that I never ever forgot was
Speaker 1: this woman who dared to utter that speech might not
Speaker 1: be violence in a room and then she got booted.
Speaker 1: And then I stayed and I was listening to everybody
Speaker 1: and they were holding space and they had to process
Speaker 1: their trauma from her even suggesting that speech might not
Speaker 1: be violent. I know a lot of people might have
Speaker 1: been traumatized by those words. Blah blah blah. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is like being in a zoo or an asylum.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know. You feel like if I started
Speaker 1: feeling guilty because I'm like, oh, this is taking a
Speaker 1: tour through these rooms of the mentally ill. I don't
Speaker 1: know what's really happening here or rehab. It felt a
Speaker 1: lot like rehab when you're in group therapy, and don't
Speaker 1: I just I don't know. It's weird to me to
Speaker 1: have groups of people talking about that stuff and processing
Speaker 1: it kind of publicly on stage, because it does feel
Speaker 1: very much like group therapy, but it's group therapy for
Speaker 1: an audience. And again, this is that kind of performative
Speaker 1: history onics. And then the woman so in this room,
Speaker 1: she got kicked out for saying that, and then they
Speaker 1: let her back in. And then this is when it
Speaker 1: shifted from group therapy to struggle session. And they said
Speaker 1: they'd let her back in as long as she apologized,
Speaker 1: and she did, but then she didn't apologize the way
Speaker 1: that they demanded, and and like, so they kicked her
Speaker 1: out again, and then they let her come back in
Speaker 1: again to try again. I mean, it was painful to
Speaker 1: listen to and it was traumatic to her. It's traumatic
Speaker 1: to her, yeah, but it's also just it's so performative.
Speaker 1: All of it feels so performative to me. But like
Speaker 1: I were saying, some of this, I didn't know you
Speaker 1: see a lot of this kind of I've been, you know,
Speaker 1: mobbed by a lot of this kind of I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's there's some part of it that's woke or something,
Speaker 1: whatever term you want to use. But I've been mobbed
Speaker 1: by pretty much every group on Twitter, like from the
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson aclates, to the Elon Musk, to the queue,
Speaker 1: to the to the Donald Trump mag of people, to
Speaker 1: the far left and Antifa, I mean all of them.
Speaker 1: At one point or another, they've come after me. And
Speaker 1: this particular group of people. I didn't. I thought I
Speaker 1: see people tweeting like this, and I really didn't think
Speaker 1: that it was real. But then hearing it on Clubhouse,
Speaker 1: I was I realized, oh no, this is real. It's
Speaker 1: not just like something someone's tweeting. They really talk like
Speaker 1: this in real life. It was It was wild. How
Speaker 1: do you separate like, uh, performative historyonics from like sometimes
Speaker 1: I see it a little bit differently. Sometimes I see
Speaker 1: it as some like a cry for help, like someone
Speaker 1: who need once. Yeah, they want attention, and that is
Speaker 1: might be literally true, but like they they want attention
Speaker 1: because they don't feel like a lot of people have
Speaker 1: been listening to them, you know. Yeah, So it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily a bad thing to want attention, you know, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, we me and you want attention in all
Speaker 1: sorts of ways, right, Like whole culture is a cry
Speaker 1: for help, right right? Right? Right? So how do you help? Yes?
Speaker 1: And it's a it's a shame. It's sad. It's sad,
Speaker 1: you know, like, but so how can we like listen
Speaker 1: to each other more? But also like I feel like
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying about the the performative aspects sometimes,
Speaker 1: but then sometimes I don't think there's a performative aspect.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think people attribute a performtive aspect to some
Speaker 1: situations that are not do you know what I mean? Right? No,
Speaker 1: that's true, And I think even the performative aspect, there
Speaker 1: is a kernel of truth in it. And this is
Speaker 1: part of what is so challenging about are the process
Speaker 1: of mediation. So this is the book I always referred
Speaker 1: to pretty much in every podcast, which is by Thomas
Speaker 1: de Zengotita Mediated, and he talks about you know, what
Speaker 1: is real? What is real, real, And in this world
Speaker 1: where we're all commodities and we're all being flattered constantly
Speaker 1: because everything is being personalized for us everywhere we go,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't we think that we can micromanage the language
Speaker 1: of everyone around us, And why wouldn't we think that
Speaker 1: we can micromanage the environment. And it makes sense that
Speaker 1: these younger generations who grew up with iPhones in their
Speaker 1: hand iPhones to think that they could manage the world.
Speaker 1: And now you're seeing tons of people even like this
Speaker 1: whole idea of the vaccines, which is fine. I think
Speaker 1: there should be a healthy amount of science backing up
Speaker 1: why it's important to be a guinea pig and take
Speaker 1: this vaccine. Some generations got to do it. But the
Speaker 1: wanting to micromanage every person in your environment and make
Speaker 1: sure that they're vaccine vaccinated, that is, that's like a
Speaker 1: weird level of crazy to me. That doesn't seem crazy
Speaker 1: to younger people. And I wonder if it's purely just
Speaker 1: the generational thing where they're just used to having environment
Speaker 1: and technologies that bend to their will. Well, you said
Speaker 1: a lot of great things there, but one thing is
Speaker 1: I've never it never occurred to me, the ie part
Speaker 1: in the iPhone is pretty narcissistic or at least self
Speaker 1: self centered. What if Steve Jobs call it the we phone?
Speaker 1: Would that have changed everything? I mean maybe that's really that,
Speaker 1: that would be Yeah, but he just knew how humans were.
Speaker 1: No one's buying a we phone. No one's buying a phone.
Speaker 1: That's a funny quote, like, no one's buying a we phone,
Speaker 1: bridget fantasy. No. I mean you're right about human nature
Speaker 1: is that it's more attractive. It's like iPhone. But but
Speaker 1: I but I like, that's just it was the first
Speaker 1: time it ever dawned on me, you know, like there's
Speaker 1: an eye there, you know, Yeah, all of these things.
Speaker 1: It's it's not yeah, it's it's funny. I was I
Speaker 1: was reading I save a lot of old magazines and
Speaker 1: I've been working on trying to get my book in
Speaker 1: some form to try and sell and shop. And one
Speaker 1: of the magazines I saved was right around I think
Speaker 1: it was right around two thousand and it was the
Speaker 1: generation the Millennials was what they called it. It was
Speaker 1: a New York Times magazine and it was all about
Speaker 1: just the narcissistic generation that was coming up with all
Speaker 1: of the technology, and then social media through kind of
Speaker 1: you know, we are all our own little empires now
Speaker 1: and you see everything kind of fragmenting, which anyone probably
Speaker 1: could have predicted if they had thought, I mean, YouTube,
Speaker 1: all of it. It's all this process. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: I can understand why people are feeling so anxious and
Speaker 1: depressed and restless, because it is so much external validation
Speaker 1: that everyone's clamoring for constantly, and in between projecting our
Speaker 1: own insecurities into these little doom boxes constantly, and then
Speaker 1: we're reacting to everybody's projected insecurities. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: we talk a lot about mental health and give lip
Speaker 1: service to it, but we really need to start doing
Speaker 1: the work to take care of our own mental health,
Speaker 1: and generally that means lagging out, going offline, taking breaks,
Speaker 1: being active. You know, I was looking at this whole
Speaker 1: study the other day about how much weight people gained
Speaker 1: in the pandemic. It's crazy, though, because I was online.
Speaker 1: You know, when you go on YouTube. One of my
Speaker 1: favorite rabbit holes is like the working out rabbit holes,
Speaker 1: and I know how people are. I understand how people
Speaker 1: can gain weight, but there's no excuse. There's so much
Speaker 1: free workout. You know, you can just log It's never
Speaker 1: been easier to get an education, to go work out
Speaker 1: in your home. It's never been easier to do with
Speaker 1: so many of these things. And it really does show
Speaker 1: how constitutionally lazy we are on some level, all of us.
Speaker 1: I mean, I would like to blame the algorithms, but
Speaker 1: it's not just that. It's I know, my day is
Speaker 1: better when I don't wake up and start scrolling. I
Speaker 1: know that. Does that mean I don't do it seventy
Speaker 1: percent of the time? No, Yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 1: about this all the time, believe it or not, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I think, well, I mean, look, we know,
Speaker 1: like that eating that cheeseburger is not going to make
Speaker 1: us healthy, like we know what, like we basically know
Speaker 1: what to do to be healthy, like you know, like
Speaker 1: work out, like eat you know, But but why does
Speaker 1: no one do it except these like super freaks, like
Speaker 1: these trainers. You know, It's weird to me. This is
Speaker 1: something I contemplate all the time because it seems to
Speaker 1: fly in the face of Darwin. I just I don't
Speaker 1: understand why it's so hard to do stuff that's good
Speaker 1: for us. I need somebody to explain this to me,
Speaker 1: and I still can't explain it and answer that is
Speaker 1: I could try, factory, I could try. I mean, maybe
Speaker 1: we'll wait till I'm on your podcast. You can ask
Speaker 1: me the evolutionary psychology of why people don't do things
Speaker 1: that are good for them, because that's an interesting conversation
Speaker 1: that would be interesting. Yeah, I mean, I know they did. Sorry,
Speaker 1: go on, do you want me to explain it to you? No,
Speaker 1: I would like to have on the podcast to explain it.
Speaker 1: Oh great, awesome. I know that they did a study
Speaker 1: pretty recently in the past couple of years, and it
Speaker 1: showed that even when even people who like going to
Speaker 1: the gym experience some kind of resistance before they go,
Speaker 1: because from an evolutionary perspective, you're supposed to be conserving energy.
Speaker 1: You're not supposed to be like expending all that. This
Speaker 1: is their theory. They think it's because you're just wired
Speaker 1: to only exert energy when you absolutely have to, and
Speaker 1: so the thought of exerting energy for no reason, there's
Speaker 1: like a fundamental basic resistance even for people who are
Speaker 1: gym rats and love it. That's an interesting hypothesis. I'm
Speaker 1: not convinced by that hypothesis. Sometimes people tell really elaborate
Speaker 1: what they're called just so stories, you know, to explain
Speaker 1: things that aren't really grounded in science, because you know,
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of energy. I mean, perhaps there's
Speaker 1: something to it because it takes a lot of energy
Speaker 1: expenditure to think. You know, you burn a lot of
Speaker 1: calories just thinking, you know, so maybe so that couldn't
Speaker 1: maybe help explain why we're lazy in terms of our
Speaker 1: thinking as well, you know, like it's it's a lot
Speaker 1: easier to just be like, you know, like veg veg out.
Speaker 1: TikTok turn my brain to putting TikTok. You on TikTok? Wait,
Speaker 1: what do you mean I'm on TikTok. I'm not. I'm
Speaker 1: forty two years old. First of all, my what my
Speaker 1: young nephews are on TikTok. TikTok is for children's Chinese spies.
Speaker 1: It's Chinese spy where I'm not sending you my TikTok
Speaker 1: dance videos. Then okay, it turns your brain to pudding.
Speaker 1: I feel I feel assaulted for you know, you feel violated.
Speaker 1: I feel violated because I'm so proud, so seo pro
Speaker 1: proud so proud of my TikTok dance videos. Speech is violent. No,
Speaker 1: that's an the speech is violence thing. Should we double
Speaker 1: click on that, because that's a really interesting one that
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people are saying these days.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of it from a psychological, you know,
Speaker 1: clinical perspective. I'll tell you my theory. Okay, tell me
Speaker 1: your theory. Not enough people have been punched in the face.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, so I get.
Speaker 1: I get you're backing violence. Yeah, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: violence is violence, and speech is generally one of the
Speaker 1: ways we can tone it down, you know. It's it's
Speaker 1: one of the ways we can find our way out
Speaker 1: of ending up in fisticuffs. I mean, we can find
Speaker 1: our way into it with just talking shit. I come
Speaker 1: from these coasts, but you can. I I would hope
Speaker 1: that we would be able to have conversations that even
Speaker 1: if there are two guys who are kind of getting
Speaker 1: into it and they're about to fight in a bar,
Speaker 1: there's always someone else with their with their language, like
Speaker 1: come on, come on. You know, we use language to
Speaker 1: to tone it down, hopefully, and I guess you can
Speaker 1: use it to dial things up, but it's not. It's not.
Speaker 1: I don't see it as actual violence. To me, it
Speaker 1: just seems like a very easy and manipulative way to
Speaker 1: control people, which is why I don't like it, because
Speaker 1: who determines what speech is violence? If there's no way
Speaker 1: to discern what is actually violence and what speech is violence,
Speaker 1: who gets to be the arbiter of what speech is violent.
Speaker 1: It's a It's a shape shifting form that nobody can
Speaker 1: really grasp and changes every single day. And that's my
Speaker 1: biggest problem with it is that now it's now you're
Speaker 1: you're taking this thing and using it to manipulate people
Speaker 1: and and or cancel people, which is a term I
Speaker 1: like never want to talk about again. Or oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I won't ask that question, but cancel. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: just bored with the conversation. It's like enough, yeah, enough,
Speaker 1: worry with that well, because I feel like people enter
Speaker 1: it after Trump and they are like, oh, cancel, cool.
Speaker 1: I'm like, welcome, welcome to twenty fifteen. Guys, like some
Speaker 1: of us have been having this conversation for like five years.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you can have it now that Trump
Speaker 1: is gone. But the rest of us are sick of it.
Speaker 1: It's a really good point. And yeah, and with the
Speaker 1: words or violence thing, I just want to circle back
Speaker 1: for a second. Like from a psychology perspective, we know
Speaker 1: that psychological avoidance, or what's called experiential avoidance, is a
Speaker 1: big predictor of mental illness, you know, like mental health.
Speaker 1: Health is not served. You know, you're not likely to
Speaker 1: have mental health if you are always treating everything as
Speaker 1: something you need to avoid, or something you need to fear,
Speaker 1: or something that's a threat. You know, you start to
Speaker 1: move towards what you feel and become curious about it,
Speaker 1: and that's when you start to, bit by bit engage
Speaker 1: more with the world and with yourself. So we do.
Speaker 1: So I think that there's there is you know. The
Speaker 1: thing which that's problem with trigger warnings, you know, is
Speaker 1: that it's it's it's it's teaching people that they should
Speaker 1: fear words, you know, and and should fear engaging in
Speaker 1: ideas that make them uncomfortable and things of that nature.
Speaker 1: But but you could see, you know, in terms of
Speaker 1: more severe things though someone said, most you know, post
Speaker 1: traumatic stress disorder, some words can you can see how
Speaker 1: can it can trigger automatically? They didn't they didn't ask
Speaker 1: to be triggered, but just because of the way our
Speaker 1: human amigdalal works, you know, can trigger that fear response. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and verbal abuse is real. That's a real thing that happens.
Speaker 1: You can verbally abuse somebody, but I don't. I still
Speaker 1: don't think it's the same as physically abusing someone. There
Speaker 1: needs to be accept that those things are different. It's
Speaker 1: just it's a different experience entirely. And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: one is better or worse. In many ways, I think
Speaker 1: psychological manipulation and psychological abuse can be much harder to
Speaker 1: heal from in some ways than even physical trauma because
Speaker 1: it's not as obvious, but it's still not. It's just there.
Speaker 1: If we don't have a separation of those things, if
Speaker 1: there's no difference between words and violence, what we I
Speaker 1: feel like we're that is catastrophic for society. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll leave that point there. It's a good point. I
Speaker 1: have some more lighter questions for you, Lighter questions like
Speaker 1: what was it like being on curb your enthusiasm? That
Speaker 1: was really fun, It was really you know, one of
Speaker 1: those moments where I was reminded why I moved to
Speaker 1: La and the dreams I had of moving to La
Speaker 1: on a on a totally small time level, But it
Speaker 1: was that was I think the most I love the show.
Speaker 1: I love I jokingly always say that I only want
Speaker 1: to play a hostess or a waitress and anything that
Speaker 1: I'm ever in because that was what I did for
Speaker 1: so many years, and so it was great to be
Speaker 1: able to just play myself in many ways. And it
Speaker 1: was a really fun episode. I didn't know that I
Speaker 1: got to be and the somebody joked there like do
Speaker 1: you did? They was the direction that the director gave
Speaker 1: you just do what you do on Twitter? As I
Speaker 1: was like leading them to the magat like, I see
Speaker 1: your point, That's not what I do on Twitter, but
Speaker 1: I get it. It's a funny joke. And yeah, it
Speaker 1: was fun. You know, it's fun to like be in
Speaker 1: makeup and get your makeup and hair done and be talking,
Speaker 1: to get moved around by the like it all the
Speaker 1: pas and have them off for you water and food
Speaker 1: and be in the It's just so cool. I mean,
Speaker 1: that was what I hoped to do when I moved
Speaker 1: out here, was to create stuff and make stories and
Speaker 1: make people laugh. And it's you know, you catch me
Speaker 1: at a time in my life if I was really
Speaker 1: to be totally real where I am definitely struggling with
Speaker 1: where I find myself in relationship to why I came
Speaker 1: out here, and I feel that I keep taking steps
Speaker 1: in the direction of being some kind of accidental pundit
Speaker 1: and I really just would rather be a comedian or
Speaker 1: a writer because I didn't really I'm not like some
Speaker 1: victim of the culture wars. I obviously opened my big
Speaker 1: mouth and like tweeted myself into the center of this
Speaker 1: this crap. But Ben said yes to people having me
Speaker 1: on their shows and talking and I feel like, I
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for the people that I've been able
Speaker 1: to meet through through this, but I think being on
Speaker 1: that show is just a reminder that I'm not That's
Speaker 1: really what I That was my intention when I came
Speaker 1: out here, you know that that was my dream, was
Speaker 1: to just be writing on one of those shows, or
Speaker 1: be be on a show or and it was so
Speaker 1: in some ways it was amazing and in other ways
Speaker 1: it was It was kind of bitter sweet, just to
Speaker 1: forced me to recognize, you know, maybe I'm a little
Speaker 1: bit farther off the path, and I write I realize
Speaker 1: or maybe that's not maybe that's not my path, because
Speaker 1: that's not how I would frame the situation at all.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're living, You're living your karmen right now,
Speaker 1: and it's so obvious to me. You know, there's there's
Speaker 1: a there's a beautiful unfolding of self actualization happening right
Speaker 1: in front of my eyes. So what was it like
Speaker 1: wearing a Tucker Carlson shirt for a week in l A.
Speaker 1: That was fun people people either didn't know him at all.
Speaker 1: I think more people would know him now than before
Speaker 1: because it was pretty early in the in the and
Speaker 1: a lot of people just gave me dirty looks. It's
Speaker 1: funny how escalated it's that seems so quaint and adorable
Speaker 1: now because then it was the Maga hats, and then
Speaker 1: it was the masks, and now it feels like anything
Speaker 1: can be used as something that people will give you
Speaker 1: dirty looks for. So I'm more con learned with you know's.
Speaker 1: It was a fun experiment and troll of the Los
Speaker 1: Angeles population, but it was also just very revealing as
Speaker 1: to you know, people liked it too, and I think
Speaker 1: they felt like they were being represent you know, their
Speaker 1: like representation matters, and I feel like they saw because
Speaker 1: I think so many people in LA are underground in
Speaker 1: there either libertarian or center right or even right wing beliefs,
Speaker 1: because they just in general to kind of survive in
Speaker 1: the in the in the you know, you know how
Speaker 1: it is in the community, you kind of just I
Speaker 1: feel like they just don't talk about what they believe,
Speaker 1: and they don't push back. They just kind of listen
Speaker 1: when people are talking about politics. And now I've started
Speaker 1: to learn, you know who, who the underground libertarian or
Speaker 1: Republicans are in any social situation, because they're the ones
Speaker 1: just like nodding their head and not talking, not agreeing,
Speaker 1: but not talking either, you know, like I'm not going
Speaker 1: to push back on this. So it was it was
Speaker 1: an interesting experiment. It was I'm you know, I like
Speaker 1: to be mischievous. There is that part of me that
Speaker 1: just likes pushing buttons. I think it's funny there's a
Speaker 1: picture of you like like that, there's a picture of
Speaker 1: a really funny picture of you, like right, like, do
Speaker 1: you know that picture I'm talking about that? I mean
Speaker 1: that there's a picture of me from today that came
Speaker 1: out like that from dumpster fires thumbnail that we use
Speaker 1: because I have Yeah, yeah, that's that was my This
Speaker 1: is my vaccine passport base. Now didn't you Did you
Speaker 1: get the vaccine today? Is that right? I did get
Speaker 1: it today. Historical got her vaccine today, Like this is
Speaker 1: a big deal. I got microchip today. Congratulations, so thank you.
Speaker 1: I yeah, I mean I was like, all right, sweet whatever,
Speaker 1: I'm so whatever about it. Yeah, I'm not gonna like
Speaker 1: pronounce it, no, because I'm not going to hide it.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to announce it because that I understand
Speaker 1: why people are announcing it because they want people to
Speaker 1: encourage people to go do it. But I completely understand
Speaker 1: why somebody would not want to do it and why
Speaker 1: they would have hesitations. I wish we just had more
Speaker 1: the problem I get accused of like being little miss
Speaker 1: both sides and trying to both sides everything, like it's
Speaker 1: not a freaking curse. It's not. It's like it's some
Speaker 1: shtick that it's an act. It's not. I really can
Speaker 1: understand how people are getting to the place that they're
Speaker 1: getting to. I can I can see why someone might
Speaker 1: be looting, even why somebody would feel so I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily have to agree with something to try and understand
Speaker 1: and how somebody might get to that place where you're
Speaker 1: wearing horns at the Capitol. Like, I'm fascinated by psychology.
Speaker 1: I want to know how that part of me that's
Speaker 1: curious about humanity wants to know how how people. I
Speaker 1: just wish that I was my superpower. I wish I
Speaker 1: could just jump into anyone's body and understand why they're
Speaker 1: doing what they're doing and thinking what they're thinking any anytime.
Speaker 1: And I wish that we could approach all of these
Speaker 1: situations with a little bit more compassion instead of just
Speaker 1: the default that everybody has to like shame, everybody, shame, shame.
Speaker 1: I don't. It's such a it's such a functional. It
Speaker 1: really is quite an effective tool at bullying people. I agree.
Speaker 1: I agree, especially if you're especially if you're like an
Speaker 1: empathetic person. I feel like you're most vulnerable if you're
Speaker 1: an empathetic person, because it'll hit you the most if
Speaker 1: you feel like you've hurt someone's feelings right, and they
Speaker 1: say right, you know, like it's almost like the assholes
Speaker 1: are kind of really winning in this space. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: forget what I was crying about the other night when
Speaker 1: I went to bed and I was like, people just
Speaker 1: think that I Oh, it was because I had that.
Speaker 1: I'm very I'm like pro vaccine, anti vaxport. I just
Speaker 1: don't like the idea of it. It creeps me out.
Speaker 1: I think that all of these institutions can't be trusted
Speaker 1: with any more power and information than they already have.
Speaker 1: And that's really kind of where I fall on it.
Speaker 1: And I wrote a piece and people were telling me
Speaker 1: that I wanted people to die. And I went to
Speaker 1: bed and I was crying. You know, I got upset
Speaker 1: by the end of the night. I was, And I'd
Speaker 1: be lying if I said I have a pretty thick skin. Definitely,
Speaker 1: after being in the Thunderdome for five years now, I guess,
Speaker 1: or more six seven. I definitely take stuff in. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't because I don't want to hurt anybody. And
Speaker 1: I really sometimes have to ask myself the question. I
Speaker 1: remember when I was really coming into right wing media
Speaker 1: where I just started, they were the only people who
Speaker 1: would even have a conversation with me about anything during
Speaker 1: the two thousand, during the whole Trump years, nobody on
Speaker 1: the left wanted to hear, Hey, why do you feel
Speaker 1: like you're being kicked out of the left wing, and
Speaker 1: so I would just go and have these conversations. But
Speaker 1: then I was it was like am I really was like,
Speaker 1: am I hurting people? Am I hurting populations? I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like puny, stupid, little me doesn't have that
Speaker 1: much power, first of all, But second of all, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hurt. Yeah, I just want to
Speaker 1: I want to talk to people and understand where they're
Speaker 1: coming from. And I don't. I don't like it when
Speaker 1: people fight, as much as I love pushing people's buttons,
Speaker 1: which I realize is an inconsistency because I think it's
Speaker 1: kind of funny. That's more playful. Though I don't want
Speaker 1: to put you but like make them mad. But I
Speaker 1: hate it. It is like the I talked to John
Speaker 1: Wood Junior about this, just being a child of divorce
Speaker 1: and the oldest of five and growing up with all
Speaker 1: the fighting and then more fighting with my mom and
Speaker 1: my stepdad. I I just don't I want everybody to
Speaker 1: like be okay, you know, I don't like the constant conflict.
Speaker 1: America feels like my upbringing right now. I hate it.
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. And I mean I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, I think we both use humor
Speaker 1: as a tool there. You know, it's it's it's a
Speaker 1: real superpower. You know that no one's talking about it.
Speaker 1: No one's talking about how humor is a superpower for
Speaker 1: these really serious divides that we're seeing, and because it's
Speaker 1: a way of showing everyone how we're all absurd, you know,
Speaker 1: like and we need to do more of that. Which
Speaker 1: lessons from AA do you think American politics could benefit from?
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, well, one admit you have a problem. Whatever,
Speaker 1: it's not something's not functioning right. I feel like the individual,
Speaker 1: it's more on the individual level even than the I
Speaker 1: just wish there was like a twelve step program just
Speaker 1: for life, you know. I think that this is why
Speaker 1: people gravitate to guys like Jordan Peterson because he offers
Speaker 1: a certain amount of framework and there's you know, I
Speaker 1: was thinking about something earlier when we were talking just
Speaker 1: how when we were talking about why is it so
Speaker 1: hard to do the things that you don't want to do?
Speaker 1: And when I first got sober, I basically had to
Speaker 1: treat every day like opposite day. I had to do
Speaker 1: the things I didn't want to do and avoid doing
Speaker 1: the things I wanted to do, and that was my
Speaker 1: reality for many, many, many many the early two years.
Speaker 1: I would say, and someone gave me a great quote
Speaker 1: that I pretty much live by now, which is, you
Speaker 1: can't think your way into new actions, but you can
Speaker 1: act your way into different thinking. And it's just habit building.
Speaker 1: And I love that it's so true. I'm like, you're
Speaker 1: not going to think your way out of losing weight.
Speaker 1: You have to actually do something differently and do it
Speaker 1: over and over and over again until that thing becomes
Speaker 1: a habit. And it's not easy to do those things
Speaker 1: it was, I mean, getting sober is I always say,
Speaker 1: it's the hardest thing I've ever done and the best
Speaker 1: thing I've ever done. But if it, boy did it
Speaker 1: teach me a lot about just dealing with the you know,
Speaker 1: interacting with the world and knowing where I'm powerless Like
Speaker 1: that that is, that is something that is so empowering,
Speaker 1: which I realize is a paradox, but there is something
Speaker 1: so empowering about recognizing I can't control really anything. I
Speaker 1: can control what I eat. I always say this, I
Speaker 1: can control my media, diet, my actual diet. If I'm
Speaker 1: getting exercise. What kind of person am I. Am I
Speaker 1: to the immediate people? Am I? Am I being kind
Speaker 1: to am I a good daughter, sister, aunt? You know?
Speaker 1: Am I reaching out and caring about people? Am I
Speaker 1: waking up and asking what I can give to the world?
Speaker 1: Those are things I can control. Everything else, not even
Speaker 1: the results of my work. I can't control any of it,
Speaker 1: the response to my work, the results of it, how
Speaker 1: many likes, anything gets, how many all of it is.
Speaker 1: Just all of that is completely out of my control.
Speaker 1: As well as generally what's going on in the culture war,
Speaker 1: what's going on in our politics, what's going on in
Speaker 1: the world, what's going on with the weather. You know,
Speaker 1: I just there's it's like ninety nine percent of everything
Speaker 1: going on in this moment is pretty much out of
Speaker 1: my control. And the things that are out of your
Speaker 1: control you're not victims of. That's the interesting step that
Speaker 1: you're making there. I think you're saying, these things are
Speaker 1: out of my control, but I'm still not going to
Speaker 1: let them be, you know, victimize me. No, because I
Speaker 1: if I had that mentality, I would be not sitting
Speaker 1: here talking to you that. There's many things that have
Speaker 1: happened in my history, choices I made, but also things
Speaker 1: that were completely out of my control that had I
Speaker 1: bought into the idea that it was something that was
Speaker 1: happening to me forever. You know, this was that I
Speaker 1: if I bought into that victimhood mentality, then I would
Speaker 1: not be here. I have a great therapist. She's always like,
Speaker 1: stop asking what's happening to you and start asking what's
Speaker 1: happening for you? And I love that because I have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's the best. She's not she's not traditional, so she's
Speaker 1: she's not the kind of therapist. It's like, tell me
Speaker 1: how you think about that. She'll be like, that's a
Speaker 1: bad idea. Yeah, she's so real. I love her. I
Speaker 1: need that. I need someone who's gonna you need I mean,
Speaker 1: I need someone who's not going to coddle me and
Speaker 1: who's going to call me out on my bs. I
Speaker 1: also have siblings who are really great at that. That's
Speaker 1: something I never got as a child. I was being
Speaker 1: an OI child. You're an only child, Yeah, yeah, being
Speaker 1: an OYD child. I never I never got that. I
Speaker 1: missed that. I missed it, you know, but I mean
Speaker 1: it has it's it's ups and downs. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: all great when you left it there that's a huge
Speaker 1: advantage in life. That's true. Oh Bridget Look, I absolutely
Speaker 1: adore you, and I just want to end this podcast
Speaker 1: by saying, I'm really glad that you came on The
Speaker 1: Psychology Podcast. You know you you made the show not
Speaker 1: not a friendly family show anymore. But you know, I'm
Speaker 1: all the cuss words, okay, curse, No, I'm going to
Speaker 1: keep them in. I'll put in the explicit rating. But
Speaker 1: I try so hard and sometimes it just comes out.
Speaker 1: But no, be you. This is what I'm saying. Stay,
Speaker 1: stay you, be you. Thank you so much. It was
Speaker 1: a delight talk chatting with you today. Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me. Thanks for listening to this episode of the
Speaker 1: Psychology Podcast. If you'd like to react in some way
Speaker 1: to something you heard, I encourage you to join in
Speaker 1: the discussion at the Psychology podcast dot com. That's the
Speaker 1: Psychology Podcast dot com. Also, if you'd prefer a completely
Speaker 1: ad free experience, I would like early access to new episodes,
Speaker 1: you can join us at Patreon dot com slash psych Podcast.
Speaker 1: Thanks for being such a great supporter of the show,
Speaker 1: and tune in next time for more on the mind, brain, behavior,
Speaker 1: and creativity.