1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 2: Chuck and it's just us again, which is fine because 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 2: we're here to talk about the two thousand election. Jerry 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: probably wouldn't want to hear about it anyway. 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: Can I tell the quickest story of my how this 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: went down for me? 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: Sure? 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: I was moving to Los Angeles in November twenty twenty. 10 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: H and I mean two thousand, what I say twenty twenty? Yeah, yeah, 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: two thousand. 12 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 2: Weird that you had mentioned twenty twenty when you were 13 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 2: talking about two thousand. 14 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: I know. 15 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 3: So I was in a big U haul. 16 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: I was towing my car, my seventy five Plymouth Valiant 17 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: named Ta, behind me, and I was somewhere in Texas, 18 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: West Texas. 19 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 3: When I spent the night and. 20 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: Then woke up the next morning, it was kind of 21 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: freezing cold in West Texas, and I was documenting this 22 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: whole trip via my high eight video camera, singing songs 23 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 1: into it and kind of documenting the journey. I'm gonna 24 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: get all these tapes digitized soon. That's one of my 25 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: Christmas break projects this year. But I very distinctly. Remember 26 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: when I turned on the camera and got in that truck. 27 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: The next morning, I said, hey everyone, So or I 28 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: don't think I said everyone, because I had no audience. 29 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 3: Spect Sure, so I think I said, hey me. It's weird. 30 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: I went to bed last night and the election had happened, 31 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: and I woke up today and no one knows who 32 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: won still, And this is weird because we always know 33 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: who won. I guess I'll see what happens. And then 34 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: I hit the road. 35 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and what thirty something days later it was finally decided. 36 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 3: By the Supreme Court of the United States. 37 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was an interesting thing too that today you're like, yeah, 38 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: I could see not knowing that that day, right, that 39 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: seems a little a little quick, almost suspicious quick. Now. 40 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: At the time, it was like, what do you mean, 41 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: It's past midnight and we don't know who won. That's crazy. 42 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: The two thousand election definitely started that whole thing. And 43 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: the election, for those of you who don't know, was 44 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: between Vice President Al Gore. He was vice president to 45 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: Bill Clinton for both terms. He was looking to continue 46 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 2: the Clinton legacy, I guess as president himself, and he 47 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: was running against George W. Bush the son of George Bush, 48 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 2: George H. W. Bush, and the brother of Jeb Bush. 49 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: I think it's his older brother. And at the time, 50 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 2: al Gore was viewed as this very wooden I think 51 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: Jeb's younger okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, Jeb's the younger brother. 52 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: And at the time, al Gore was viewed as wooden, unapproachable, 53 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: very smart policy wonk who could not relate to the 54 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: average person to save his life. And George Bush was 55 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: viewed as just this complete dingus who was a part 56 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 2: of a political legacy, whose family clearly viewed him having 57 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 2: the presidency as his birthright. That was the selection that 58 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: America had at the time. But this is all against 59 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: the backdrop of the economy really doing nicely and there 60 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: hadn't been any really big problems or wars for a while. 61 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 2: I can't really think of any direct war that the 62 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: United States would have been involved in since Vietnam. Oh, 63 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: like you know, big time war. Yeah, yeah, I don't 64 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: think that. I think Vietnam was the last war we 65 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: were in during this election. 66 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 67 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: So, you know, if you were watching comedy shows, especially 68 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live at the time, you would get two things. 69 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: You would on one side you would get. I can't 70 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: even remember who played him, but this is how al 71 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: Gore was basically portrayed Aryl Hammond. Well, oh that's right. 72 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm like Bill Clinton without the scandal 73 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: that was Al Gore. And then of course, I guess 74 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: was Will Ferrell the first and Bush, you know, through 75 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: comedy and the media was you know that guy, and yeah, 76 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: I don't even I don't even care about being president. Yeah, 77 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: I just want to make Daddy happy. That was sort 78 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: of the lay of the land pre nine to eleven, 79 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: before you know, a lot of the country rallied around 80 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: Bush and you know, like, like we said, Gore was 81 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 1: trying to to get away from that Clinton stink such 82 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: that he didn't even get Bill on the Canpayne trail 83 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: with him that much. And it was also I mean, 84 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: this was a landmark election in a lot of ways, 85 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: but it was also sort of the first, the first 86 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: big election where you had someone saying, hey, Gore is 87 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: the big Washington insider and I'm just this guy from Texas. 88 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 1: Like sort of rural versus urban power struggle. 89 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where it generally began. The Bush campaign really 90 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: was doing what they could to kind of highlight that 91 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: dividing line. 92 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so at the time Bush had been pretty far 93 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: ahead in the polls. In the summer after the Democratic 94 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: National Convention, Gore mounted a big comeback and by fall. 95 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: By September, a couple of months before the election, these 96 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: guys were basically deadlocked, and everybody was saying, this is 97 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: going to be a really, really really close election. 98 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: Hold onto your hat. 99 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: Everybody knew that it would be close, but no one 100 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: had any guess that it was it would turn out 101 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: as close as it actually did. But just the polling, 102 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 2: poll after poll after poll showed like Gores in the lead, Nope, 103 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: Bushes in the league, Gores in the lead. Gallup found 104 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 2: that the lead changed nine times just in the fall 105 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: the fall, nine time exactly. And so election Day Tuesday, 106 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 2: November seventh, a lot of people, including Tim Russert rest 107 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: in Peace, had said, I think Florida is going to 108 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: be the going to decide the outcome of this. I 109 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 2: didn't see exactly why. I don't know if it was 110 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: a gut feeling or what the deal was, but there 111 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: were there were a few people who were already pointing 112 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 2: to Florida. And at the time the news organizations NBC, ABC, CBS, FOXY, INN, 113 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 2: and AP all subscribed to a company called the Voter 114 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: News Service, which had been set up in nineteen ninety 115 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: I think by the big networks to basically pool their 116 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: resources to pay for people who did exit polling, and 117 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: they would give that data directly to the networks, who 118 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: would then use it to kind of like you know, 119 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 2: read the tea leaves as best they could to forecast 120 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: who won. Because in nineteen eighty NBC called Reagan at 121 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 2: eight fifteen pm and set off this huge competition among 122 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 2: the networks. 123 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like call for calling the election was a big, 124 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: big deal for a network, And so you found that 125 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: great article where they were like, you know, after that 126 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: Reagan thing, all the networks started spending a lot of 127 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: money in the next cycle, you know, on their own 128 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: exit polling data, and it was like millions and millions 129 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: of dollars. So when they got together basically and said, hey, 130 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: why don't we all just hire this one service so 131 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: we can all save a lot of money. The downside 132 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: of that was they were all getting the same information, 133 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: whether it was good or bad, and in this case 134 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: it turned out the information was not great. 135 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 2: So Gore was doing pretty good, not just in the 136 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: national vote but electorally too. We got Pennsylvania, got Michigan, 137 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: and Florida was starting to come in, and apparently the 138 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: numbers were up. The exit polling data for Gore was 139 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: showing that he probably won Florida enough that NBC said, oh, 140 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: we're doing it again, And at seven forty nine pm 141 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: on election Day, NBC called Florida for Gore. They didn't 142 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: go so far as to call the presidency for Gore, 143 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: but the writing was on the wall. If Gore won Florida, 144 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: that was that. And I guess about fifteen minutes later 145 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 2: the rest of the news organizations had joined and said 146 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: the same. 147 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: Thing, right, so everyone's calling Florida for Gore publicly. At 148 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: this point that night, the VNS, that voter News service 149 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: that was doing the exit polling for everybody, said, hey, 150 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: news organizations, we've got some issues here with our data. Like, 151 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: for example, in this one county in Florida, it was 152 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: supposed to be four thy three hundred and two votes 153 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: that we saw someone added a zero to that and 154 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 1: it was forty three twenty votes. So maybe you should 155 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 1: sort of hold off on calling this thing. And all 156 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: the news organizations said, well, that's too late, We've already 157 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: done that. And at just before ten pm, at nine 158 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: to fifty five, CNN was the first to come on 159 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: and say, hey, wait a minute, we jump the gun here. 160 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: Everyone else of course followed suit, and then at two 161 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: fifteen in the morning, Fox News comes on and says 162 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: Bush is going to be the winner, not just to Florida, 163 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: but the whole thing, and then everyone else followed suit 164 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: and said and of course this is overnight, so you 165 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: wake up in the morning thinking that George Bush had won. 166 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 3: Right, so well not quite. 167 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Actually, well, if you were saying this, we'll see what 168 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: happened between then and sunrise. 169 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think a lot of people were staying 170 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: up glued to the TV still at this point. By 171 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: the time Fox said that Bush was the winner, and 172 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: the rest of the networks joined in with that. So 173 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: that's three three times now that they have have made 174 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: the projection. Because retracting a projection is a projection in 175 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: and of it. It's like Rush said, even if you 176 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. 177 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 2: It's essentially the same thing. Yeah, and there's a quote 178 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: from Donna Brazil the disgraced Democratic operative who was running 179 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 2: Gore's campaign at the time. Get this. She texted Gore 180 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 2: on his BlackBerry and I read the New York Times 181 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 2: article about this. They felt compelled to explain that a 182 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 2: BlackBerry was an instant messaging pager. That's how two thousand 183 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: this thing was. 184 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 3: By the way, really quick. 185 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: I saw that movie, the BlackBerry Movie, on a plane 186 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: flight recently, and it's actually very good. 187 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure most I recommend it pretty good. 188 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 3: Now it's a movie movie. 189 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: Most movies are pretty. 190 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 3: Good anyway, recommended. 191 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 2: So she told she's running the campaign and told Gore like, 192 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: don't give up yet. This is it's too weird. Essentially 193 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing here, yeah, which is true. But despite that, 194 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 2: Gore was like, I don't I think we lost, And 195 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: so he even went to the extent of waking as 196 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: his wife, Tipper, who was not actually sleeping, she was 197 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: under the blankets with a flashlight making a list of 198 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 2: bands that she didn't like and their kids, and said, hey, 199 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 2: I lost, essentially, and they kids started crying. So he 200 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 2: started to get ready to do his concession speech. That's 201 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 2: how close this came. He also called Bush called George 202 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: Bush and said, hey, congratulations. You know you're the winner, obviously, 203 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: And he got into a limo to go give a 204 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 2: concession speech in Nashville to his supporters, and on the way, 205 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 2: one of his operatives said, hey, I've been watching the 206 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 2: Secretary of State site in Florida. And Bush's lead went 207 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: from fifty thousand to six thousand. I don't think we 208 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 2: should concede yet. And literally this happened in the caravan 209 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 2: on the way for him to give his concession speech 210 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 2: at like three point thirty in the morning. 211 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so because there were still some precincts that 212 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: had been unreported, so they were like. 213 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 3: Slow your role, Gore. 214 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: So Gore call up Bush again, could not have been 215 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 1: a fun phone call, told them what was going on. 216 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: Apparently there are people that heard these calls and said 217 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: Bush said, uh, you know, are you really gonna withdraw 218 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: your concession? And Gore responded, quote, well, you don't have 219 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: to be sniffy about it. So Bush said, well, my 220 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: brother's governor Florida, and he said that he said I won. 221 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: And Gore said, well, let me explain something. Your younger 222 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: brother's not the ultimate authority on. 223 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: This that I think the al Gore finally came around 224 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: at the end. But George Bush, he sounded like a 225 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 2: cross between Yosemite Sam and a member of Leonard Skinnard. 226 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 2: That's about right, actually, now that you mentioned it, that's 227 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 2: like dead on. 228 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 3: Yeah. 229 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: So it was, I mean between them interpersonally, it got 230 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: a little sticky right at the beginning. 231 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think George Bush even said you can't you 232 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 2: can't retract. You're not allowed to do that. Essentially, daddy 233 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: can he do that? So, yeah, that it was a 234 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 2: really big deal. I don't think that this had actually 235 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: happened before. 236 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: Not as far as I know. I think this was 237 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 1: sort of the first thing. 238 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a lot of first things in this election. 239 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, so by four o'clock the networks all retract their 240 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: calls and basically this is what you know, Younger Chuck 241 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: wakes up to in West Texas, which is we don't 242 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: know who won. Tom Brokaw gets on NBC and says, quote, 243 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: we don't just have egg on our face. Oh wait, 244 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: that was al Gore. Light I'm getting all confused now. 245 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: I heard a little broke on there. 246 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: I used to do Brokall, we don't just have an 247 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: egg on our face. We've gone humlet all over our 248 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: suits at this point and our faces and everywhere else. 249 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 2: That was great. That was a great brocall. 250 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 3: And he always sounded like he was out of breath. 251 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 2: It wasn't that he got on, Chuck, this was four am. 252 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 2: He was still on from when he got on at 253 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 2: seven pm. 254 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 3: Oh this poor guy. 255 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: And Tim Russer at least just on NBC alone, are 256 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 2: like just dying here. But they've never seen anything like it. 257 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: And again, like, as you said, this is a big 258 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: deal in that it was really embarrassing. It was a 259 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: really big thing to call to be the network that 260 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 2: called the presidency, so it was equally humiliating to be 261 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: the network that had to retract it. And that happened 262 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 2: to all the networks. But that also had a really 263 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 2: big impact on public opinion. At first, they were like, well, 264 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: Gore won, so that means that if you guys called 265 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: this at before eight pm Eastern, there were still polls 266 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: opened in the West Coast, And how many Bush voters 267 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 2: did you discourage from turning out because you'd said Gore 268 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: already won. And then the opposite of it was that 269 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: when they said Bush won but then retracted it, people 270 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: were like, no, Bush's the winner, which made it harder 271 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: for Gore to get the public behind the recount that 272 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: he was going. There was a lot of public opinion 273 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 2: about this, a lot of opposition, some manufacture, some genuine 274 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: as we'll see that that really makes a big deal. 275 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 2: You think you think for a second, like, well, no, 276 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 2: it just comes down to how many who got how 277 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: many votes or who got how many electors from the 278 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 2: electoral College. No, Like, the public opinion has a lot 279 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 2: of sway in a situation like this, So everything that 280 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: happened publicly was a really big deal. 281 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, Olivia who helped us out with this and. 282 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 2: Did a bang up training, the fantastic job. 283 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: It was keen to point out that there were, you know, 284 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: a few states that they didn't have the full results 285 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: about anyway. Oregon has very famously long had a vote 286 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: by mail system, so it took a while to get 287 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: all those votes in. It eventually went Gor's way. New 288 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: Mexico was no one knew about New Mexico until December first. 289 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: That eventually went Gor's way as well, and the Republicans 290 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: were like, should we get a recount going in New 291 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: Mexico and Wisconsin and Iowa. But they basically because the 292 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: margins were pretty low, not enough to trigger any kind 293 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: of automatic recount, but they thought about contesting those, but 294 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: they would have had to win all of the states 295 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: that they were thinking about contesting. And the writing was 296 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: on the wall that like, hey, listen, we're not going 297 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: to win all of these, so we're not going to 298 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: contest any of them. We'll just it's going to come 299 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: down to Florida, and we're going to put all of 300 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: our eggs in that basket. 301 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, because Florida had twenty nine electoral votes and it 302 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: could it would put either one of them in the 303 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: White House. That's how close this race was that those 304 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: twenty nine electoral votes going either way did it for them. 305 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 2: So in Florida, if you have a margin of victory 306 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 2: that's under point five percent the total tally of votes, 307 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: then there has to be a recount, a machine recount 308 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 2: where basically you run all the ballots through again and 309 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 2: see what the count is. Right, that's just law. That's 310 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: point five percent. This was point zero one percent difference 311 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 2: out of six million votes casts in Florida in the 312 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 2: two thousand general election. A few hundred votes, yeah, separated 313 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 2: one candidate for president from another and again because whoever 314 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 2: won Florida became president. A few hundred votes is what 315 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 2: it came down to to determine who would become president 316 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 2: that time. 317 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, because of how it works in the United States. 318 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: If you're not from the United States, you can go 319 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: back and listen to our Electoral College episode. You want 320 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: to get angry, I know, because no matter how you 321 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: count the votes, Al Gore won the popular vote, just 322 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: as Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in America, it 323 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: doesn't matter who gets the most votes because we have 324 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 1: the EC in place. 325 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 2: But just a quick sketch of it. Though, if anybody 326 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 2: doesn't actually feel it, go in and listen to the 327 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 2: episode again. Chuck's right, It's it's worth listening to. But 328 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: in the United States, in a state, whoever has the 329 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 2: most votes gets usually all of the electors that that 330 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 2: state has to offer. And so in reality, what you're 331 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 2: really running for as president is electors. So you want 332 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: to win states, and you can strategically win some states 333 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: over the others and lose the popular vote and win 334 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 2: the Electoral College and still become president because you got 335 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 2: more electors. Even though more Americans voted for the other person. 336 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 2: And that's the big controversy because it's super undemocratic because 337 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 2: the general population doesn't actually decide. Basically, strategy decides. It 338 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 2: doesn't always wash out to be the person who won. 339 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 3: The popular vote. 340 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: Well, since we're talking George Bush, should we say strategery again? 341 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: You can go back and listen to that episode and 342 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: we'll touch on that a little bit at the end. 343 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: But that's either here there, because we do have the 344 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 1: EC and Florida was very very close, and there were 345 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: people in the I mean, we knew it was going 346 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: to be a tough fight at that point because a 347 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: Jeb Bush is the governor of Florida, George's brother. The 348 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: Secretary of State in Florida, Catherine Harris at the time, 349 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: was co chair of the Bush campaign there. And the 350 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: state attorney general was a Gore guide, Bob Butterworth, so 351 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: nuts was even the head of the Gore campaign. So 352 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: this thing was just fraught from the jump. 353 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Chuck, I think with that it's a good 354 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 2: place for a break. 355 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 3: What do you say, All right, let's do it. We'll 356 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 3: get right back. 357 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 2: Okay. 358 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 3: All right, So here we are, it's November. 359 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: People don't know who the President of the United States 360 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: is going to be yet things are starting to get 361 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 1: pretty tense, and America is going to start learning some 362 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: very specific terms and ins and outs. As far as 363 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: to how Florida conducted their elections at the time, they 364 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: used in a lot of the counties a punch card 365 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: system where you had a little card puncher and you 366 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: would look at the cannona's name and there was a 367 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 1: little perforated square beside that, and you would use your 368 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: little puncher to punch that thing out. The little square 369 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: that gets removed is called. 370 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 3: A chad, and. 371 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: Depending on how punched out, this chad was determine whether 372 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: or not your vote was counted. And there were a 373 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: bunch of terms at the time that sort of had 374 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: to define what this all meant. A dimpled or pregnant chad, 375 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: which means you tried to punch it and it was 376 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: indented but it was still fully attached. Was a dimpled 377 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: or pregnant chad. You had the swinging door chad where 378 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: two corners are attached, and then you had a hanging 379 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: door chad, or what eventually became known as just a 380 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: hanging chad where you punch all the way through except 381 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: one little corner remains attached, and that's the situation that 382 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: determines the leader of the free world. It's not right 383 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: and weird. 384 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: But that was the situation under Florida law. If you 385 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 2: are an elections board in a county during a recount, 386 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: you have to try to determine what the intent was 387 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 2: of the voter based on the ambiguous ballot they turned in, right. 388 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is huge. Like, again, the Florida law says 389 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: the intent of the voter is what matters. 390 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 2: Right, and that the election board during a recount has 391 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 2: to determine with the intendants. But there's no rules. There's 392 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 2: no statewide rules. There's really no rules unless a canvas 393 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 2: board like adopts them themselves to determine what a voter 394 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 2: meant based on all those different types of chads. 395 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 3: Right. 396 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 2: So they've made this up as they went along, or. 397 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: In some cases, counties already did have rules on the 398 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: books as far as chads go, like Palm Beach County. 399 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 2: Yes, Palm Beach County is a good example because Palm 400 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 2: Beach County arguably is where the entire election flipped. Yeah, 401 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 2: but they had a policy that they'd had for ten 402 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 2: years since nineteen ninety that said if you have a 403 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,719 Speaker 2: dimple or pregnant chad, it doesn't count. It's a spoiled ballot, 404 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: and that vote doesn't count. But if you have any 405 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 2: kind of partially detached head, a swinging door, a tri corner, 406 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 2: a hanging chad, any of those, that counts as a vote, 407 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 2: Like the person clearly meant to vote using that. They 408 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: during the recount, they just abandoned that and they tried 409 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 2: something instead called the light test, where you would and 410 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 2: there's pictures of people doing this, where you would hold 411 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 2: the ballot up to a light source to see if 412 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: any light shone through, and if. 413 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 3: You get in the year two thousand, if you could. 414 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 2: See any light, then that counted. And they realized that 415 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 2: actually that totally went against the rules, that you could 416 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 2: have a type of hanging chad and lights still not 417 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 2: come through, So then that means you don't count that ballot, 418 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 2: and they just gave that up and went back to 419 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 2: the original rules. This was the kind of catastrophe that 420 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 2: was going on during the recount in Florida, and everyone 421 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 2: was reporting about every single minute of it, and the 422 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 2: entire country is like, what is going on? And the 423 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 2: people in Florida, who were in charge of all the recounts, 424 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 2: are for rereaking out because if you read about these boards, 425 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: they're like, they're not made for this kind of stuff. 426 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: They're not. This is all totally new, and all of 427 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: a sudden, the New York Times and the Washer Post 428 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: as standing over their shoulder watching them and reporting on it, 429 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: and they're just flipping out. So they're doing just all 430 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 2: sorts of goofy stuff that just doesn't make any sense 431 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 2: because there's just like deer in headlights. 432 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And these aren't huge boards like in 433 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: one county it was like three people. 434 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that was Dade County where Miami is. 435 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, which is just nuts. We should talk about the 436 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 3: butterfly ballot for right. 437 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: I don't know if I can. 438 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: This was the ballot in Palm Beach County. You sent 439 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: me a picture of what this ballot look like. I'm 440 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: a reasonably intelligent adult human and I looked at this 441 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: ballot and it confused me a little bit. You should 442 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: just look it up. Look up a picture of the 443 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 1: Palm Beach County butterfly ballot Bush Gore election. 444 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 3: But what it is. 445 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: It's candidates on two sides like butterfly wings all the 446 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: way down and in the center between all those are 447 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: the little punch holes with But here's the thing is 448 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: those if you look at the two sides, they're they're 449 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: not aligned all the straightaway across. One's a little higher 450 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: on the left, one's a little lower on the right. 451 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: And on the left, number one position is George Bush. 452 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: Right under that is Al Gore. On the right, number 453 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: one position is Pat Buchanan. But the way it aligns 454 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: and there are little arrows that point at the holes, 455 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: but it's it's confusing, and it's very it would be 456 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: very easy to think, oh no, I don't want to 457 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: vote for Bush, I want to go down one and 458 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: vote for Gore. But down one was actually on the 459 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: other side slightly lower is Pat Buchanan. And it was 460 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 1: just a very confusing ballot. And they found that Pat 461 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: Buchanan got about four times the vote in that county 462 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: than he did nationwide. And that that alone, and I'm 463 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: not saying no one knows what would have happened for sure, 464 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 1: but it was a funky looking ballot. Pat Buchanan had 465 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: a very highly skewed amount of votes, and those amount 466 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: of votes would have firmly given Al Gore victory. 467 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, And to make it even more confusing, the candidates 468 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 2: were numbered. Didn't even start with one and two, It 469 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 2: started with three, and then Buchanan was four, Gore was five, 470 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 2: McReynolds was six, with Renald was a socialist. So there 471 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 2: was one way that you could accidentally not vote for Bush. 472 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: You would accidentally vote for Buchanan below him. There were 473 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 2: two ways to accidentally not vote for Gore. You could 474 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 2: accidentally vote for Buchanan above Gore or McReynolds below Gore. 475 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 2: And like you said, Pat Buchanan is very instructive. The 476 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 2: number of votes he got from the butterfly ballots. Even 477 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 2: comparing other Palm Beach County voters who voted by mail 478 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 2: absentee ballot that wasn't a butterfly ballot, his numbers were 479 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 2: way less compared to the butterfly ballot votes. So suffice 480 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 2: to say that a lot of people accidentally voted for 481 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 2: Pat Buchanan who meant to vote for Al Gore or 482 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 2: George Bush, but probably more al Gore because Palm Beach 483 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 2: County is a strongly Democratic county in Florida, all. 484 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: Right, So in Miami Dade, which I think you said 485 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: was the most populous Florida county. Initially, that three that 486 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: three person canvassing board said they were going to manually 487 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: recount six hundred and fifty thousand ballots. They realize that's 488 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 1: overwhelming and probably impossible because there was a looming deadline. 489 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: So they said, all right, why don't we just count 490 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: the ten thousand, seven hundred and fifty ballots that the 491 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: computer system rejected, because those are the ones that are 492 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: in question, and we feel pretty good that the other 493 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: votes had been you know, counted properly because they were 494 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: fully punched, no chad issues. The GOP leaders said, hey, 495 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: canvassing Board, you're trying to rig this in favor of Gore, 496 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: And they tried to get all the local Cuban Americans 497 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: riled up and saying like, hey, this kind of stuff 498 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: that happens under Castro, like you need to come down 499 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: here and stage a protest like this will not stand. 500 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: And what ended up happening was what was called the 501 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,479 Speaker 1: Brooks Brothers Riot because it was not local Cubans. It 502 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: was not, in fact, in most cases local Floridians that 503 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: came to protest, but it was Washington DC political operatives 504 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: and insiders that came down and they gave themselves away 505 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: by the clothes that they wore. That's why it was 506 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: called the Brooks Brothers riot. People at the time were 507 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: saying like, and they were trying to deny it, saying 508 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: they were like local Floridians, and they're like, well, you're 509 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: certainly not dressed like somebody from Miami. You've got a 510 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: Brooks Brother's suit code on, sport code on, in fact, 511 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: most of you do. And they went down there and 512 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: they were successful. They gathered in the plaza, they screamed 513 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: voter fraud. They were banging on windows and handing out 514 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: crying towels and saying you're a sore loser. And it worked. 515 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: They succumbed to the pressure and stopped the recount. 516 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, by the way, Ted Cruz was one of 517 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 2: those operatives. He was in the who was in the riot? 518 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 2: This state is essentially fake riot. Although if you read 519 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 2: an interview there's a i think a Washington Post interview 520 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 2: with Brad Blakeman, who is the guy who was responsible 521 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 2: for staging this protest and organizing it, that he sounds 522 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,959 Speaker 2: like he genuinely believed that this canvassing board was trying 523 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: to throw the election to Gore, and that that really 524 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: fueled a lot of it. So it's difficult in that 525 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: respect to fault him and his group for for protesting 526 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 2: like that. On the other hand, it's very clear that 527 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 2: this Brooks brother Brother's riot, they were accused of violence 528 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 2: against election officials. They were at the very least very 529 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 2: hostile and in your face. Again, these canvassing boards are 530 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 2: not not cut out for this kind of life. They 531 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 2: didn't know what the heck they were signing up for, 532 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 2: and the Brooks Brothers rioters essentially intimidated them out of 533 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 2: this very democratic process of recounting by hand ballots that 534 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: had been rejected by the computer. There was no evidence 535 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 2: whatsoever that the computer was selectively rejecting Gore ballots in 536 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 2: order for him to come in and clinch the presidency 537 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 2: in a very dramatic win in Miami Dade. It doesn't 538 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 2: make any sense that would have favored Gore. What they 539 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 2: were doing was trying to stop the recount in because 540 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 2: Bus ahead, because Bush was ahead. That was the entire point. 541 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 2: On November ninth, the Secretary of State, Catherine Harris was 542 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 2: trying to certify the election because Bush had three hundred 543 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 2: and twenty seven more votes than Gore. And so what 544 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: these Republican operatives were doing in the Brooks Brothers right, 545 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 2: was trying to stop the count right there, to keep 546 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: George Bush's lead. That was their goal. So it seems 547 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 2: like Blakeman's view that what they were doing was illegal 548 00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: may or may not be disingenuous. 549 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, right, Yeah, So these recounts are happening, 550 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: and the Secretary of State Harris, like you said, all 551 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: of a sudden, the Florida State Supreme Court got involved 552 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: and she wanted to certify, like you said on the fourteenth, 553 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: but the Supreme Court said, no, you have to count 554 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: all the votes. You can't certify the election. You need 555 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: to count them all. You can't just throw out the 556 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: votes that are in dispute. So there are four counties 557 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: that you need to do a hand recount on. And 558 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: over the next month, between November and December, there were 559 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: more than fifty lawsuits being filed by all sides. Everyone 560 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: all over the place is filing lawsuits about recounting and 561 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: counting and deadlines and different various counties across Florida, and 562 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: eventually on December eighth, the Florida Supreme Court came out 563 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: and this is very important, and ruled four to three 564 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: that you have to count what's called the under votes, 565 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: meaning these votes that are unclear that the Bush campaign 566 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: wanted to just throw out. You got to count all 567 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: these votes, and if you haven't done that yet in 568 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: these counties, you got to do it. The Bush campaign said, well, 569 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: we don't want to count all the votes because we're ahead. 570 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: The Gore campaign said, well, great, count all of the votes. 571 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: That's a democracy at work. And so the Supreme Court 572 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: of the United States gets involved, and all of a sudden, 573 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: on December eleventh, you are getting oral arguments on the 574 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: Supreme Court of the United States about how like basically 575 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: a lot of things, chiefly one of which is should 576 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: the federal government get involved when states are supposed to 577 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: run their own elections. 578 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I say, we take a little break and just 579 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 2: prepare ourselves for the catastrophe that is Bush v. 580 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: Gore. 581 00:32:52,760 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 2: What do you say, let's do it so Chuck like 582 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 2: you said, The Florida Supreme Court said, no, you need 583 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: to handcount all of those ballots that the computers rejected 584 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 2: to figure out who who won. And the Bush campaign 585 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: sued to get that stopped and got it picked up 586 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 2: by the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court on December ninth, 587 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 2: issue to stay very strange. That is very unusual for 588 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court to get involved in a state court ruling. 589 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 2: Federalism basically said, you don't do that. 590 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 3: Stop. 591 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, state was stop the handcount, don't do that anymore. 592 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 2: And then, even more unusual, without the Bush campaign petitioning 593 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,479 Speaker 2: for the Supreme Court to hear the case, the Supreme 594 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 2: Court agreed to hear the case, and what they did 595 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 2: was take this up. 596 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 3: It sounds confusing, yeah, but yeah. 597 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 2: No one in the Bush camp asked the Supreme Court 598 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 2: to decide on the merits of the case. And yet 599 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court decided to decide on the merits of 600 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 2: the case. And again, this is highly unusual. A state 601 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 2: supreme court ruling for a state matter is pretty much 602 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 2: sacricanct in Supreme Court, like US Supreme Court tradition, Supreme 603 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 2: Court does not get involved in that kind of stuff. 604 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 2: And they said, hey, let's get involved in this, this 605 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 2: hornet's nest right now. 606 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. 607 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: So what we ended up with were a couple of 608 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: rulings there was a seven to two ruling that it 609 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: violated the equal Protection clause of the fourteenth Amendment, because 610 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: the argument from the Bush side was, hey, listen, there 611 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: isn't a codified statewide way that everyone has agreed to 612 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: do these recounts, and so that violates the equal protection clause. 613 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: And on the Gore side, he was saying, well, there 614 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: is a codified way, maybe not in the way they 615 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 1: do it, but the law is intent to vote and 616 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: that's on the books. 617 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 3: So that's how we should decide, right. 618 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 2: And so the idea of applying the equal protection clause 619 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 2: doesn't really make sense because in America every state has 620 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 2: different ways of voting, not just among the states but 621 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 2: among the counties. In an individual state, it's all over 622 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 2: the place, Like it's up to the county to decide 623 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 2: what kind of voting machines they want to use, how 624 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 2: many to have, Like it's up to generally the county, 625 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 2: if not the state. Right, So that's a really weird 626 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 2: thing to say, no, this particular state is violating the 627 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 2: equal protection clause. So we're going to say stop doing 628 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 2: this handcount We're going to rule in favor of that 629 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 2: because of the equal Protection clause, and then secondly, the 630 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 2: other thing about the equal protection clause, Chuck, is what 631 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 2: they were saying was everyone is not going to have 632 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 2: their vote counted because it's because of the inequity and 633 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 2: how you vote. So what we're gonna do is just 634 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 2: make sure we don't count some people's votes to protect 635 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 2: them and keep them equal. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 636 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, And on that first point, I believe it was 637 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: either Briar or Suitor in the dissent said kind of 638 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: pointed out what you were saying. Was saying like, well, hey, 639 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: if that means that no state has a fair election, right, 640 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: because every single state and every single county, like you said, 641 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 1: has different like Josh Clark will one day say, he said, 642 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: has different ways of doing things. So if you say 643 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: that about this, then no state has a free election 644 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: or a fair election or whatever. Everything is called into 645 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: question and that can't be the case. The other concurring 646 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: decision was even more important, and I think we said 647 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: it was seven to two because Briar and Suitor actually, 648 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: as quote unquote liberal justices sided with the quote unquote 649 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: conservative side. 650 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 2: Which is so weird because it's such a bad legal argument. 651 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: I know, I don't know. Well, it's interesting. Maybe it 652 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: wasn't Suitor or Brier then that said what I said. 653 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 2: It was probably John Paul Stevens. 654 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 1: Oh, I think it was Stevens. But the concurring and 655 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: this is really the most important decision, which was a 656 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,959 Speaker 1: five to four ruling on you know, I know they're 657 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: supposed to be impartial, but there were five conservative justices 658 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: at the time for liberal justices, and it ended up 659 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: a five to four concurrent ruling that not only can 660 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 1: you not do the recount, but like, there's no time 661 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: and because of what's called safe harbor, which is this 662 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: date a deadline for states to resolve issues over the 663 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: selection of their state electors, and that was approaching, whereas 664 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 1: the liberal justices said, well, hold on, that doesn't mean 665 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: that's not when they cast their vote at the Electoral College. 666 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: There's still six days after that. There's plenty A there's 667 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: plenty of time to do that. And B had you 668 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: not issued a state to begin with, they would be 669 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: done by now probably and we wouldn't have even been 670 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: called on. So we ended up causing a problem with 671 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: this stay that we are now ruling that we're now 672 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 1: ruling on by instituting that stay. 673 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 2: They caused the problem. It's really just perfectly put. They 674 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 2: caused the problem that they were saying was the problem, 675 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 2: and the reason that they were saying, you have to 676 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 2: stop the recount. It's too late. Isn't that nuts? 677 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 3: Yeah? 678 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: RBG and her very famously in her descent, usually say 679 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: I respectfully descent, and she just said I dissent, which 680 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: was doesn't sound like a big deal, but those words matter, 681 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: and it was a big deal. And she was also 682 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: like saying, hey, wait a minute, this contradicts all of 683 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 1: our federalist principles that this is a state matter and. 684 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 3: That we shouldn't get involved with this to begin with. 685 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 3: So it was. 686 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: A not only a landmark ruling, but one that was 687 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: just fraught with upset on all sides, up and down 688 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: the political spectrm into the citizens of the United States. 689 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 2: Even more suspiciously. There's a really great article from the 690 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 2: Nevada Law Journal from twenty twelve written by Marcus Broden, 691 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 2: and he points out there was a lot of books 692 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 2: written about this afterward, and he said that at least 693 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 2: three of the conservative justices had like personal what was 694 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 2: it called when you're supposed to accuse yourself. I guess 695 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 2: conflicts of. 696 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 3: Interest, Yeah, yeah. 697 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 2: One was that Scalia's Sons law firm was arguing the 698 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 2: case in front of the Supreme Court for the Bush side. 699 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 2: Another was that Clarence Thomas's wife, Ginny was looking for 700 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 2: it was like accepting resumes on behalf of the Heritage 701 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 2: Foundation to set up a Bush administration. And then thirdly, 702 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 2: I think Sandrade. 703 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 3: O'Connor, Yeah, she was trying to retire. 704 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 2: I think, yes, she wanted to retire, so she didn't 705 00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 2: want Gore to win because she didn't want to have 706 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 2: to stay on for four more years so that a 707 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 2: Democrat wouldn't pick her replacement. So these three had like actual, 708 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 2: like personal vested interests in the outcome of this election. 709 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 2: Three of the five did, at least, and even putting 710 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,800 Speaker 2: that aside, the fact that the Supreme Court got involved 711 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 2: in the first place was a terrible idea. The fact 712 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 2: that they decided the election was a terrible idea. The 713 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 2: legal idea that they ruled on was terrible. And then 714 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 2: the idea that anybody had even an iota of personal 715 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 2: interest in the outcome was a really big deal. And 716 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 2: today the Supreme Court is definitely under question as far 717 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 2: as political activism's concerned, and I'm sure it has been 718 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 2: for a while, but it really feels like common knowledge 719 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 2: these days. Yeah, in two thousand, that was really new. 720 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 2: That was a really big deal. People thought very very 721 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 2: differently about the Supreme Court in two thousand compared to 722 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 2: how they think about them today. 723 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and on those a couple of things you mentioned 724 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: Scale Son, who was part of the law firm that 725 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: argued the Bush case. He very soon after the election 726 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: was given a cabinet position, right right, And Sandrad O'Connor, 727 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 1: this isn't just speculation that she wanted to retire, Like, 728 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: wasn't she It was either on tape or like people 729 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: that were with her when they called it initially for 730 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: Gore like said she was like, all crap, basically, yeah, 731 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,480 Speaker 1: like this means I got to work another four years. 732 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 2: She said, this was this is this is terrible. And 733 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 2: her husband explained that they had been planning on retiring 734 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:33,879 Speaker 2: but now she couldn't if Gore won. 735 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 1: All right, So just want to clear up that wasn't 736 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: just like, you know, some opinion that we're living out there. 737 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 2: Right, and then sorry, there's one more legal thing that 738 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 2: Gore camp really dropped the ball because legally, the Bush 739 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 2: campaign had no legal standing in this matter. They weren't 740 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 2: the injured party. The injured party was the potentially disenfranchised 741 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,359 Speaker 2: voters of Florida, not the Bush campaign. So the Bush 742 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 2: campaign had no standing to bring this case to the 743 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 2: Supreme Court in the first place. And the Gore team 744 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 2: didn't even mention it. And that might have been the 745 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 2: thing that put enough public pressure on the Supreme Court 746 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 2: to just toss it and say, no, whatever the Florida 747 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 2: Supreme Court said stays, and they just dropped the ball 748 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 2: that hard. 749 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this isn't a surmising because we're not smart 750 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: enough legally speaking, Like multitudes of legal scholars have come 751 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: out and said, like, why didn't they argue standing like 752 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: that was what would have changed the outcome. 753 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy how many just small things would have 754 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 2: changed the outcome. Let's talk about that. 755 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: Sure, So Libya appropriately caused this autopsy report because after 756 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,399 Speaker 1: something like this, they don't just go all right, well, 757 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: that went as it should go, and everything was super smooth. 758 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: I mean, regardless of who won or lost, if it 759 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: would have been Gore, it would have been the same thing. 760 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,879 Speaker 1: It would have been like, boy, what a mess, right, 761 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 1: This is not how elections are supposed to be decided 762 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: in the United States. So afterward there were all kinds 763 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: of studies, all kinds of people writing legal papers and 764 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: just studying the data. The University of Chicago's National Opinion 765 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 1: Research Center, which is an independent organization, they did a 766 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: review and they said, what we found out was that 767 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 1: more Florida voters attempted to vote for Gore, but enough 768 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: of them, like you know, mark their ballots inappropriately, and 769 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: that not only that, but like each side would tried 770 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 1: to do things that would have hurt their own camp 771 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: Like I believe it was. Gore was trying to get 772 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: these four counties hand recounted that actually would have ended 773 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,720 Speaker 1: up helping Bush. And at one point Bush was trying 774 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: to make the detached at two Corners vote count that 775 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: would have helped Gore. So it was just a big 776 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 1: play to spaghetti as far as you know, the time, 777 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,759 Speaker 1: because they were all just sort of very quickly in 778 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 1: real time, reacting to things that they never thought they 779 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: would have to react to, and sometimes doing things that 780 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: would have even hurt their chances at winning. 781 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And another study found that just in Palm Beach 782 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 2: County alone, the over votes people who voted for more 783 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 2: than one person where there were just two. The ones 784 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,799 Speaker 2: that went to that included Pat Buchanan. They decided about 785 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 2: seventy five percent of those were because of ballot design. 786 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 2: And I think two thousand votes would have gone to 787 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 2: al Gore, which would have flipped the entire state because 788 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 2: George Bush won Florida by five hundred and thirty seven votes. Right, 789 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 2: So it's not one hundred percent clear what would have happened, 790 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,879 Speaker 2: because even if that recount would have gone on, other 791 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 2: studies have shown like no, actually Bush might have still 792 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 2: won based on the autopsy we conducted. So it's still 793 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three not clear who actually won the 794 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:51,400 Speaker 2: two thousand election. 795 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're asking yourself, like all right, Florida 796 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: had a law in place about intent to vote, as 797 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: like that's what matters. One way that you can measure 798 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: intent is like to look at that chad and see, 799 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,880 Speaker 1: you know, was it clearly trying to be punched for 800 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: a candidate. Another way you can do that is as 801 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: a right to remedy. You can get in touch with 802 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: people and say, all right, you got another chance, like 803 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 1: it looks like you marked your ballot in an inconsistent way. 804 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: Try again. And they did this in different counties in 805 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,279 Speaker 1: some counties in Florida, which it really helped. It led 806 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 1: to an error rate of less than one percent. But 807 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: in the only predominantly black county in the state of 808 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: Florida at the time, Gadsden County, they did not allow 809 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: them to remedy the ballots, and there was a twelve 810 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:44,440 Speaker 1: point four percent invalidated ballot rate compared to under one percent. 811 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 1: So there's just hinky stuff going on all over the place. 812 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Bush Fi Gore is like a toxic zombie 813 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,120 Speaker 2: legal case that won't die and should have never happened 814 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 2: in the first place. But there is a really strange 815 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,839 Speaker 2: appendage to that that we've talked about before, I think 816 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,920 Speaker 2: in our Supreme Court President Judicial Precedent's episode, Yeah, I 817 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 2: think so, where they said that it's limited to the 818 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 2: present circumstances. And as that Mark Boden guy wrote in 819 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 2: the Nevada Law Review, they basically attached like a warning sign, 820 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,880 Speaker 2: like warning, do not use this as precedent. Essentially, Supreme 821 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,160 Speaker 2: courts just deciding the president here and this doesn't apply 822 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,320 Speaker 2: to any other ruling because it shouldn't have happened anyway 823 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 2: in the first place, right, and yet it's still cited 824 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 2: as precedent all over the places cited by both sides actually, 825 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 2: even though it shouldn't be whatsoever. And that's just one 826 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,480 Speaker 2: of this kind of afterlife of the two thousand election 827 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 2: that's still going on. 828 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely a lot of things have changed since then. 829 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 1: Ralph Nader for the Green Party certainly did not win 830 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 1: any friends on the left because he got close to 831 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand votes in Florida, you know, most of 832 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: which probably would. 833 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 3: Have gone to al Gore. 834 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: And he ran again even though everyone was like, I 835 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,880 Speaker 1: love you, Nator, but stop screwing up the elections if 836 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,480 Speaker 1: you're a Democrat, and he was like, yeah, I don't care, 837 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, I believe in what I'm doing. And so 838 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: he ran again in two thousand and four. You know, 839 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: as far as mounting a third party bid, that it 840 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: certainly put a damper on that. A lot of people 841 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,800 Speaker 1: say the two party system being so locked in stone 842 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: is one of the big problems in this country. And 843 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: another thing that happened was states immediately were like, oh boy, 844 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 1: we can't do this again. Florida for sure, and other 845 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: states were like these punch cards, like we got to 846 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: get into the we got to get with the times 847 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: here and have a more secure way of voting than 848 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: just people punching a card like it's you know, eighteen 849 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,839 Speaker 1: seventy five, and you will see no more chads. All 850 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,239 Speaker 1: these changes sort of nationwide from state to state, culminated 851 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 1: in the most recent twenty twenty election, where in Donald 852 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,799 Speaker 1: Trump's own Department of Homeland Security and Cybersecurity and Infra 853 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,799 Speaker 1: Structure Security Agency said was the most secure election in 854 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: American history, with no evidence that any voting system deleted 855 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised. 856 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,840 Speaker 1: So thankfully, so many changes were put in place to 857 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,600 Speaker 1: make sure something like this didn't happen again. 858 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the electoral college is kind of this weird 859 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,439 Speaker 2: wonky thing that happened in the background in until two 860 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,839 Speaker 2: thousand and it really kind of brought to the flour 861 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,759 Speaker 2: like what a potent and also undemocratic institution this is. 862 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:31,640 Speaker 2: And so a lot of people are like, we need 863 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,200 Speaker 2: to get rid of this thing. And apparently, in a 864 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 2: twenty twenty poll by the Pew Organization, fifty eight percent 865 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 2: of American adults said they would support a constitutional amendment 866 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 2: that said the electoral college is nil and void. 867 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,760 Speaker 3: Well, you're never going to get that on a ballot. 868 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,920 Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I don't know. I don't understand 869 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 2: why it's not already. It is such an enormous problem. 870 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:54,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish there were more what do you call 871 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: those referendums, Yeah, where they would just let human the 872 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,279 Speaker 1: or and public vote on things rather than people to 873 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:04,320 Speaker 1: decide the things. 874 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,359 Speaker 2: Well, that's what's been going on with abortion access. They've 875 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 2: been they've been strategically purposefully getting them on ballots that 876 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,279 Speaker 2: don't have other politicians right to get people to just 877 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 2: vote on the one issue. Yes, yeah, and it is 878 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,200 Speaker 2: a great idea because then you actually see what the 879 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,799 Speaker 2: people actually think about it. You know, it's I think 880 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:25,160 Speaker 2: that's a great idea too, Chuck. 881 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, however, way any of it goes, let people decide, 882 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:36,000 Speaker 1: because I think we've all seen that elected representatives, you know, 883 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,880 Speaker 1: they don't always necessarily reflect the will of their people, 884 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:39,640 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. 885 00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,400 Speaker 2: No, And another thing is, I mean pretty much everybody 886 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,480 Speaker 2: on both sides can point to Congress and be like, 887 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:50,040 Speaker 2: you guys, don't do enough these days. If voters voted 888 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 2: on referenda, then you know, the voters could do the 889 00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 2: work that Congress is supposed to be doing passing laws. 890 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:56,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 891 00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,440 Speaker 1: Well, they don't want to do that because one of 892 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 1: those first referenda would be term limits, and they're like. 893 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:02,640 Speaker 3: Oh no, let's not do that. 894 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:04,759 Speaker 2: You got anything else? 895 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 3: Oh? 896 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,920 Speaker 1: Man, I got nothing else. Can't wait till next November. 897 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:09,839 Speaker 1: That's going me a lot of fun. 898 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,240 Speaker 2: I don't know if I can do it. Chuck, Well, 899 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,680 Speaker 2: since Chuck has laughed at my pain, I think everybody 900 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:20,440 Speaker 2: it's time for listener, ma'am. 901 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,080 Speaker 1: Oh, this one's a great one. This is from Dan 902 00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 1: Sheaflin and Dan Well, I'm just gonna read it. It's 903 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,560 Speaker 1: pretty amazing. I hope you saw this one. If not, 904 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,280 Speaker 1: you should go look it up. Okay, hey, guys, as 905 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,840 Speaker 1: I write you, I'm ensconced in the warm cab of 906 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,239 Speaker 1: a Caterpillar tractor, jostling along the snow covered Ross ice 907 00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: shelf on my way to the Eminson Scott South Pole station. 908 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,000 Speaker 2: I did not see this. 909 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:46,520 Speaker 3: This is cool. 910 00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,560 Speaker 1: He included a picture of this caravan five days ago 911 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,560 Speaker 1: when we left McMurdo station on Ross Island the starting 912 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,800 Speaker 1: point in the South Pole traverse. We were one thousand 913 00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 1: and thirty eight miles from the South Pole. My current 914 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,000 Speaker 1: ground speed is seven point one miles per hour, which 915 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,080 Speaker 1: is a pretty good pace. Our speed can be much 916 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,239 Speaker 1: slower at times, depending on snow and a variety of 917 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,360 Speaker 1: other conditions. There are fourteen of us who embarked on 918 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,440 Speaker 1: this twenty five to thirty day journey, each in our 919 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,920 Speaker 1: own tractor. Are hauling mostly fuel to resupply the South 920 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,560 Speaker 1: Pole station, but also cargo and the living modules where 921 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,600 Speaker 1: we eat and sleep and use the bathroom. Our toilet 922 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,200 Speaker 1: is called the in Sinnolette and you guessed it. It's 923 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:34,359 Speaker 1: a turd burning rig, fairy glamorous. So they're in these 924 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,839 Speaker 1: tractors just slow rolling it to the South Pole. 925 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:38,960 Speaker 3: That's a make deliver supplies and fuel. 926 00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:40,600 Speaker 2: That's really amazing stuff. 927 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: He had a picture of this caravan is so cool 928 00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: as you can imagine. I have a lot of time 929 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,040 Speaker 1: sitting in this tractor, and quite a bit of that 930 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,080 Speaker 1: time as dedicated to listening to podcast yours included. I've 931 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,840 Speaker 1: been a faithful listener since twenty ten. We have a 932 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,960 Speaker 1: whiteboard inside our galley and a post I post daily 933 00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,960 Speaker 1: a podcast recommendation and today I put up naked mole Rat. 934 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,920 Speaker 1: It's a face only a mother could love, because that 935 00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,360 Speaker 1: one blew my mind. Guys, how can they be so interesting? 936 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,839 Speaker 1: And that's from Dan Shifflin, and he says big shout 937 00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,760 Speaker 1: out to his wife Marcy as well as the guys 938 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,080 Speaker 1: on the traverse. So, man, you don't think about people 939 00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,239 Speaker 1: out there doing these wacky jobs. But Dan and the 940 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,160 Speaker 1: gang out there on the on the slow train are 941 00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:20,520 Speaker 1: doing it. 942 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,759 Speaker 2: That's really cool. Thanks a lot, Dan. Shout out to 943 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,200 Speaker 2: Marcy for putting up with Dan driving around the South 944 00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:30,320 Speaker 2: Pole on a slow train. Yeah, and thanks for the 945 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:32,360 Speaker 2: picture too, Dan, I'm looking for I can't find it 946 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,959 Speaker 2: right now, so send it to me, Chuck. I will 947 00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,240 Speaker 2: if you want to be like Dan and just blow 948 00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,200 Speaker 2: our minds with a picture of where you are or 949 00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,640 Speaker 2: some info about what you do. We would love that 950 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,160 Speaker 2: you can blow our minds by wrapping that information up 951 00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,000 Speaker 2: into an email and sending it off to Stuff Podcasts 952 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,719 Speaker 2: at iHeartRadio dot com. 953 00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,439 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 954 00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 3: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 955 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,240 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,