WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 111321 Will Banning Traffic Stops Work? (Part B) 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:07.680 And now watching my mic back, you're like that you 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:08.600 can strike. 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.400 Waters from headquarters behind him and the line. 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.239 If you're just tuning into Civic Cipher, I'm your host, 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:17.160 ramses Jack. 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:22.240 I typically say they call me q Ward, but then 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:24.520 that makes it seem like there's just this segregated me 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.440 over here somewhere that calls me that everybody calls me 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:29.440 q So it's not even like I can't even say 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:33.440 they anymore. You know, I'm q Ward. I am q ward. 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.640 That's my Instagram handle too. By the way, listen, then 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:36.600 give this man to follow. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.920 Yeah, I am q Ward. I can't even you know, 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.320 it's not they that called me that. Everyone calls me that, 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:44.160 including my mom. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:45.080 Yes, indeed. 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:47.639 Uh But stick around. We got a lot more show 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:53.120 coming your way. We will be talking about Philadelphia banning 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:59.640 some traffic stops in hopes of making a more equitable 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:05.040 police for all folks, and what that might result in 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:06.640 in our way Black History of Fact, We're going to 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.279 talk about forty acres and a mule. 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.440 But first it's time to become a better ally. 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:20.440 And today what I want to talk about is another movie. 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:21.679 You know, in the first half of the show, we 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.600 talked about the harder they fall. Being number one on Netflix, 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:25.560 will shout out to them. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:26.080 Right. 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:27.760 If we haven't seen it, go see it. 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:29.160 Please do not a. 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:33.080 True story, but true characters exactly. 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.759 But in order to become a better ally today, we 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.360 collectively recommend you check out another movie. 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.200 This one is called King Richard. 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.600 We talked about this a bit before, but we're getting 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.640 real close to the actual release date and there's a 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:53.080 lot of hype around the film. 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:54.920 And I really think it's important for folks to check 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:55.320 it out. 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.480 For those that don't know, King Richard is about the 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:04.360 Williams family, Venus and Serena, the famous tennis players, and 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.320 it's really their father's story. Their father is King Richard 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.200 is played by Will Smith in the movie. And you know, 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.919 for for lots of things that folks might not know about. 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.160 You know, there might be folks who've been freshly clicked 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.519 on to what the black experience might be like since 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.600 twenty twenty. You know, you might have heard things like, 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.280 you know, black folks have to be twice as good 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:26.280 to be good enough, you know, things like that. I 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.000 really feel like this movie is going to touch on 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:33.480 things like that because for years we've known we didn't 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.520 have to know the Venus and Serena William's story in 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:37.079 order to. 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.959 Know what they had to go through, dark. 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.600 Skinned black women from Compton and Watts, you know what 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.480 I mean to get to the top of the world 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.839 in their field. So you know, it's there's a ready 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.520 assumption for us. But you know, it's always helpful to 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.200 provide context, you know, and you know, I believe this 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.800 movie will illuminate some of that and you. 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:00.320 Know, further create. 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:06.560 Or deepened the empathetic connection that we've kind of started 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.520 cultivating with each other black folks and non black folks. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.560 And so, you know, in order to become a better ally, 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.560 at least for this week, we recommend you checking out 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:20.280 King Richard, so you know, put. 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.760 It on your calendars and shout out to Will Smith. 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:24.760 By the way, in this. 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.200 New world that we live in, movie theaters are not 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.240 thriving in the way that they once did. So Will 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:34.360 Smith has either negotiated for his co stars or taken 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:38.440 money from his own salary to make sure that the 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.640 people working on the movie got bonuses that they typically 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.320 would have gotten from movie tickets sales that at least 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.320 don't exist anymore. Because the movie is not just coming 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:51.040 out in theaters but being streamed simultaneously, and because of that, 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.240 a lot of people just stay home and watch movies now. 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.400 So Will Smith to make a more equitable world for 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.960 his team, co stars and the crew for the movie 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.600 made sure that people got those bonuses. So talk about 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.240 becoming a better ally, He's doing it in a very 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:07.280 very kinetic way. 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.480 Yeah, pay people, we'll get there. We got to talk 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.400 about forty acres and a mual two. But yeah, shout 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:15.280 out to Will Smith. He's good for that, him and 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.520 jay Z. But for all the stuff that they get online, 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.000 they they put their money where their mouth is. I'll 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:22.520 say that much, you know, because I don't know what 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:24.720 I don't know, but I've seen lots of stories and 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:26.359 lots of examples have been doing just that. 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:30.200 So now, traffic stops, Q. Have you ever been pulled 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:30.760 over before? 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:36.400 Unfortunately in the pitch black in the middle of the 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:39.719 night in Mississippi and a new Porsche. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.479 Oh man, that sounds like a fun night. 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:47.800 In the Southern United States, at the height of one 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:51.760 of the most polarizing summers in this country's history. Racially, 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:52.760 I was pulled over. 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:56.800 You know, that's that's a funny story because I was 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:58.400 pulled over in that same porch with you. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.039 Well, as it turns out, Uh, it's something that we 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.680 knew for a long time. Uh. We used to call 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:13.599 this driving while black. Basically, what it means is you 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.680 got pulled over because you were black. There was some minor, 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.719 very minor infraction. You know, maybe I switched lanes and 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:28.280 I didn't signal, or maybe I whatever just the smallest. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.560 Of things, right, Maybe I rode too close to the 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.280 dividing line and then it made a cost a vibrating 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:40.000 noise which then caused a state trooper h and county 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:41.840 sheriff to pull me. 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.080 Over in a minute of the night and men get 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:50.000 a dog and then called drug dogs, who has. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.880 It turned out, smelled drugs in the brand new porch 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.240 that we just picked up in Florida. 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.760 When there was no man Because maybe in the parking 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:02.640 lot somebody who had drugs on them brushed up against 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:06.120 the car six hundred miles ago. 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:10.080 Yeah, and the odors stayed on the car outside of 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.919 the car while we were driving. Yes, maybe that happened. 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.119 For those that don't know, obviously, this is a story 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.279 that Q and I share. This actually happened, and the 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.920 officers actually said that to us after they got the dogs. 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:26.160 The dogs quote indicated the presence of drugs. They searched 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.520 the brand new car and there was nothing in it. 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.400 And then they told us that that someone might have 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.800 leaned up against the car the last time we got gassed, 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:34.559 and they might have had a joint in their pocket, 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.520 and that's what the dog's smelling. And we're in the 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.640 middle of no, we're having driven maybe it was about 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.039 four hundred miles by then because we were close to 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.320 the Louisiana Anyway, that's a real story that happened. But 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.120 I digress. Driving while black. 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:48.120 It's the thing. 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:53.760 We've known about this for a long time, and it's 0:06:53.800 --> 0:07:02.480 a how do I say this? It's one of the 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:12.480 primary ways that police can probe into our individual lives. 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.680 They can do a deep search with whatever it is 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.080 that you have on your person. They can find out 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.960 who you are, whether or not you've have been wanted 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.440 for anything, whether or not you've done anything in your past. 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:26.680 They can find out what's on your person. They can, 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.520 you know, whatever, and if they want to escalate things 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:34.200 once they have you pulled over for the initial infraction, whatever, 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:38.000 it may be maybe they can detain you there usually 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:42.720 until they find something that they want to you know 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:43.400 him you up on. 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:49.760 Now, we and this is not just black people. There's 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:50.360 a lot of people. 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:54.960 We don't believe that this happens in the same way 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.960 to we'll say white folks. I can't say non black 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.720 folks because I do from California, so I and I 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:05.320 live in Arizona, so I'm familiar with the way police 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.920 interact with my Hispanic brothers and sisters, or my LATINX 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.560 brothers and sisters, as well as Native folks and you know, 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:14.760 other melanated types of individuals. 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:17.760 But we do recognize that. 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:25.400 The same protocol and practice isn't put in play when 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:31.080 the driver is a white person as often or with 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:40.760 as a extreme of an implementation. With that said, traffic 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:47.480 stops usually end up resulting in something crazy when they do, 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.600 you know, like like the instance we just mentioned, you know, 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.880 getting pulled over. Obviously, you know, we don't have any 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.920 acute Have you ever done a drug in your life? 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:04.520 Had an ad vial like three days ago because I 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.719 had a splitting headache? 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:08.760 Well I should I should say this right then? Have 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:10.920 you ever done an illegal drugs. I guess I'm sorry. 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:15.000 I'd feel as as a name brand profen. Okay, okay, 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.120 it's what it's called in the in the medical world. 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.320 Got it, got it. But in any illegal drug ever 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:23.199 in your life. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:28.640 Illegal and or recreational. Never in my life. Perfect, same 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.559 is true with me. And you've never drank alcohol. I've 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.120 never drank alcohol, even so that we could have this kind. 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.400 I have unfortunately tasted alcohol, but I have never had 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:37.920 a drink. 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:43.160 Oh well, I've never you know, same pretty much. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.920 And it's gross. 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.680 It smells like it tastes that. Don't know, it is gross. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.600 Anyway, that's just me. You know, I have a fun 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.160 life without all that. I got a good story here. 0:09:55.480 --> 0:10:00.720 Anyway. It's so crazy that we would get pulled over. 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.720 And almost every time I've gotten pulled over, the line 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.600 of questioning goes to have you been drinking, which, from 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.880 what I understand, is standard practice, especially if you're out 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:11.320 at two in the morning. You know, Q and I 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.040 are both DJs for those that don't know, and we 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.000 work late. We work weekends, you know, when folks typically 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:18.679 go out and a lot of folks drink, so that's 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.960 standard practice, no issue there. But you know, getting pulled 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.040 over in the daytime, unless you're doing like some gross 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.320 speeding thing or something like that. The line of questioning 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.280 often goes to do you have weapons or drugs in 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.480 the car that I should know about? Which might be 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.840 standard practice for everybody, for every police department across the country. Again, 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:42.640 I'm not trying to say what the protocol should or 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:44.720 shouldn't be. You know, however they get down, that's how 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:48.600 they get down. But I don't imagine that dogs. 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:49.400 Get called on everybody. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:53.000 You know, only in cases where we think these people 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.680 might be criminals. And the funniest part of the story 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.400 is that, you know, you and I are the furthest 0:10:59.400 --> 0:10:59.840 thing from that. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:00.160 You know. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.440 I told a story before when I got pulled over 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:09.480 near the airport one time. This was in Arizona. I 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.640 got pulled over near the airport and pulled out of 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.080 the car, and I told the officers same thing. I 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.360 just said, I've never done a drug, I've never drank alcohol. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:18.840 And they said, oh yeah, well. 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:19.079 How about this. 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:20.840 Why don't we pull you out, handcuff you, sit you 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.079 on the side of the freeway, and we're going to 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.400 search the car. You know, after I'd already given them 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.000 permission to do it. I'm like, you're not going to 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.880 find anything in here, And later the officer told me 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:34.040 that's exactly what someone who does meth would say, and 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.360 I was like, wow, you know what a stretch. 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:37.720 You know. 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:43.280 Now again, I need to make my point here, traffic 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:53.560 stops overwhelmingly target black drivers, especially in densely populated places 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:59.120 like Philadelphia and rather escalated traffic stops. 0:11:59.120 --> 0:11:59.800 We'll say it that way. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.440 Or you know you have dogs, you have you know, 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.400 extra more aggressive tactics deployed. I'm gonn handcuff, You'm gonna 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:07.560 sity on the side of the street. I'm gonna get 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:08.920 the dogs. I'm gonna call back up. I'm gonna do 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.880 this sort of thing, right, So those things overwhelmingly on 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.200 the other end of it is a black driver. Again, 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:20.840 we call that driving while black. Well, we've seen how 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:28.000 policing oftentimes leads to you know, scared police who pull 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.400 their weapon and murder people on the side of the road. 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:35.920 We've seen how policing disproportionately affects black and over Policing 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:40.400 disproportionately affects black and brown communities because you know where 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.640 you put the police. That's where the arrests are going 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.920 to be made, you know. And that's not to say 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.679 that crime doesn't happen elsewhere, it's just not policed in. 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:50.440 The same way. 0:12:50.679 --> 0:13:00.240 Right Philadelphia their city council on in this. A lot 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.560 of these notes come from Channel twenty nine. In Philadelphia, 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:09.400 they had a city council vote for a driver driving 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:13.200 Equity Bill, which basically bars police from stopping drivers from 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:14.400 minor traffic violations. 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:15.560 I'll read a little bit about it. 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.760 In primary violations, police officers are permitted to conduct traffic 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:23.120 stops in the name of public safety. In secondary violations, 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.920 the traffic stop would no longer be used for enforcement. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:31.320 And these are what are considered secondary violation according to 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:35.360 their Driving Equity Bill. One is the vehicle is not 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:39.679 registered within sixty days of the observed infraction. The registration 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.400 plate is not clearly displayed, fastened or visible, single brake light, headlight, 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:45.280 running light, etc. 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:46.480 Not illuminated. 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.240 That's another big thing that I've been pulled over before, 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.880 and I've heard lots of times your license plate, light 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.839 bulb is out, you know, and instead of saying, hey, 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:57.520 your light bulb is out, you might want to get 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.600 that fixed, it's hey, your light bulb is out, where 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.840 you step out of the car. Have you had anything 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.320 to drink? Where you're going, where you're coming from? Do 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.400 you have anything in the cars? You know about any weapons? 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.959 Have you done drugs? You know, like all this sort 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:15.400 of interrogation sort of the thing, and at best it's harassment. 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:21.080 At worst it's obviously a death sentence. Minor obstructions. I 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.920 believe that to be like moving instructions, Like I said, 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.880 maybe switching lanes without you know, using a blinker bumper issues, 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:33.240 operation of vehicle without official certificate of inspection. This might 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:38.920 be a Philadelphia thing, or unlawful operation without evidence of 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:44.960 emissions inspection. So these are the things that folks cannot 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.760 be pulled over for. And what I imagine they're doing 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.200 is instead of pulling a person over and pulling them 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.880 out of their car, they're taking the license plate number, 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.080 sending it in and then this person gets a letter 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.480 in the mail saying, hey, we've observed this. You can 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:04.120 either fix it or pay this fine, right, which minimizes 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:08.240 the amount of police interaction, which if according to police, 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.160 you know, if these traffic stops are very scary, intense situations, 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.080 should be good for police too, because now they don't 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.800 have to pull out their guns and they don't have 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.480 to be terrified walking up to a car that they 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:19.640 just pulled over for. 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:24.480 Quote unquote breaking the law. And you know, everyone should 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.120 be happier in theory. What do you think. 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.400 For those of you who have listened to this program before, 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:37.000 you realize that every time my brother does this, I interject, 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.920 And it's because he is the far more graceful, gracious, 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:47.000 and optimistic one of the two gives cops the out 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:54.120 of being afraid and that it's complete bull crap. They 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:59.680 use hate and in a lot of times racism, and 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.920 then they cry scared after they murder people while they 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:08.480 have guns and the people that they murder don't. So 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.640 every time my brother says that these cops are afraid, 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:18.600 I raise my hand and interject, because maybe one in ten, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.680 maybe one in fifty of those officers was actually scared 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.960 for his life. But when the people that you shoot 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:28.720 in the back are running away from you, it is 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.920 very very difficult for me to accept that you did 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.800 that because you were afraid. Officer such and such. Yeah, 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.600 you're right, I think it shows that that person was 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.600 afraid if they're running away. I mean, I've unfortunately had 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:44.640 to run away from a gun before, and I realized 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.520 that bullets go a lot faster than my legs do. 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:51.480 But it's a scary situation nonetheless. But yeah, you're absolutely right. 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:59.680 The thing is, I think that with our show, I 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:04.160 try to account for a person who might be we'll 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:09.639 call them a moderate folks that really believe that police 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:14.360 are doing the best that they can ten times out 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.520 of ten, you know, and don't account for the fact 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:22.320 that there might actually be a lot more bad apples 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:28.399 than they they then they're comfortable within their version of 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.880 the story, right, They like that few bad apples. 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:35.480 Motif if you will. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:41.240 And you know, we we recognize there's a long form 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:49.360 of systemic, you know, institutional oppression on one specific community 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.720 or really a couple of different communities, you know, And 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.919 so in order to speak to that person and to 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.439 allow them their truth, you know, I think that a 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.440 lot of times my approach just doesn't you know, cognitive 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.800 bias exists, and I don't want a person listening to 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:06.880 us to say, oh, this is another one of those 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.720 people and turn us off, rather to listen a little 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.280 bit further. So I appreciate you interjecting, because you are 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.560 absolutely right. I know that you're right, and I'm sure 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:16.399 most people that are listening know that you're right. But 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:20.479 there might be some folks who are you know, they 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.280 might be related to a police art they might you know, 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.879 they from their perspective and their vantage point, they have 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.119 to see the best in what this institution is. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.879 Please and ladies and gentlemen, what you just listen to 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.600 is another thing that Rams just kind of makes fun 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.560 of me for, and it's that he just made very 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.440 clear that there is a lot of context and nuance 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.480 to both sides of all of the discussions that we have, 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.120 and listening to him explain that made it make complete 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.240 sense why he presents it the way that he does. 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.960 And this is the last show on Civic Cipher. Well, 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.679 I will interject, no, all. 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:05.480 The fear is nonsense narrative, because what he just says 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.359 is important. It is important for us to get further 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.000 than that part of the message into what could be 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:17.600 education and solution and reprieve and forgiveness and progress that 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.680 has to come after that. And we still need people 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.359 who don't agree with all of the takes that we 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.040 have and all of the points of view that we 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.000 share to listen and maybe hear something that they wouldn't 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:32.000 have otherwise. So thank you Ramses for being that even 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:34.720 kill and that open minded and having the foresight to 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.080 know that we need the people to not turn the 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:38.400 station as soon as they turn it. 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.119 On, right, right, that's fair. 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:44.120 But please I digress interject as often as you can. 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.040 You know, I'm sure there's a lot of folks where 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:48.440 this is their first episode. 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:48.639 You know. 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.520 Fortunately this past week our show has been picked up 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:53.920 in a few new cities. So to all of our 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.919 new listeners, welcome. Please check out civicsipher dot com and 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.600 download this and any previous episodes, and you know, get 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.280 caught up to speed, and we hope that you'll ride 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.960 with us as we try to make, you know, it 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:08.800 a little bit easier for us to all be brothers 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.080 and sisters better brothers and sisters to each other on 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:13.440 this in this country and on this planet. You know, 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.640 it's a much bigger vision, but for now, we live 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.760 in the US, So this is what we're talking about now. 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:20.760 I do want to read this quote going back to 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:27.679 the Philadelphia banning the minor traffic stops, and again this 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:32.240 comes from Channel Channel twenty nine article out of Philadelphia. Quote, 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.320 data and lived experiences showed us the problem, and data 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.560 will likely be key to making sure this is done right, 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:40.480 said council member Isaiah Thomas. 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:41.439 Quote. 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.720 Data will tell us if we should end more traffic 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.080 stops or amend how this is enforced. Data will also 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:51.280 tell other cities that Philadelphia is leading on this civil 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.080 rights issue and it can be replicated. 0:20:54.640 --> 0:21:01.240 Quote, so this is based on numbers. 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.760 Philadelphia is obviously a huge city, huge population center in 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.159 this country. And for them to take a step like 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:14.480 this to try to make things right, you know, it's 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:16.720 it's one thing, if it's and I want to say 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:17.920 this to it, and I do want to hear a 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:19.800 little bit more of your thoughts to you. It's one 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:25.720 thing to say, you know that all of these crimes 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:27.880 are the fault of black people breaking the law. 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:28.200 Right. 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:32.320 I get that, I understand that. But if we're doing 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.239 this across the board, then what we need is the 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:39.600 same amount of policing done in all parts of every city. 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:39.880 Right. 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:42.640 That means the same amount of people getting pulled over 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:47.159 who are non black and you know, non non Latin X, 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:52.080 non melanated, and then the impact on those people's lives 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:56.200 and and that the the traffic stops are as intrusive, 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.920 you know, And then if we compare it apples to Apple, 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.760 then we would really see is this a violation of 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.760 you know, your civil liberties, which a lot of folks 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:07.280 on the right and a lot of folks who are. 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:10.159 Moderates as well, really want to protect. You know. This 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:11.919 is why police don't just come into your house. 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:15.400