1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey besties. Today on the bright Side, it's 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Wellness Wednesday and we are running an encore presentation of 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: our conversation with board certified psychiatrist and ADHD specialist, doctor 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: Sasha Hamdani. It's Wednesday, December eighteenth. I'm Simone Boyce. 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 2: Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: share women's stories, to laugh, learn and brighten your day. 8 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: Today's Wellness Wednesday is presented by Coliguard. 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 2: ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and according to 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 2: the CDC, it's one of the most common neurodevelopmental disorders 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: of childhood and often lasts into adulthood. 12 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: That's true, but what's really fascinating about this is that 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: women and girls are underdiagnosed and undertreated when it comes 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: to ADHD, and identifying symptoms of ADHD can manifest differently 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: depending on age and gender. 16 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 2: I mean, Simone, I actually feel like particularly interested in 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: hearing from doctor Hamdani because you've said before that you 18 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: feel like you. 19 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: Have some symptoms of ADHD. 20 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 3: Oh. 21 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've definitely had my questions and my doubts for 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: a long time about my inability to focus. I identify 23 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: as a hyper girly, so maybe there's something to that. 24 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: But I think if you're chronically online, you've probably seen 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: this conversation pop up on social media. It seems like 26 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: people are talking about it more and more, and there 27 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: are upsides to that, but there are also downsides. Some 28 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: of the downsides include misinformation, like are we really getting 29 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: the truth when we're engaging in these discussions online. So 30 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 1: that's why it's really important to bring in the experts, 31 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: someone like doctor Sasha Hamdani, who knows her stuff, is 32 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: one of the upsides. 33 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: Doing viral Instagram videos with your husband in a pool 34 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: about being hyper. 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if my husband would call it enough side. 36 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: I certainly enjoyed that experience. 37 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: I certainly feel it's an upside as if you were 38 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 2: I do. But okay, jokes aside, because this is a 39 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 2: serious topic. Joining us today to answer all of our 40 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: questions and clear up any misconceptions about ADHD is doctor 41 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 2: Sasha Hamdannie. She's a psychiatrist, the author of Self Care 42 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 2: for People with ADHD, And what feels very unique is 43 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: she's someone who has ADHD herself, You might recognize her 44 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: from social media, where she shares insights on ADHD and 45 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: mental health to her almost two million fans across platforms. 46 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: So let's bring her in. 47 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 2: Doctor Sasha Hamdannie, Welcome to the bright Side. 48 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 4: Huh, thank you for having me. 49 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you. You are a board 50 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: certified psychiatrist. You also have ADHD yourself, and you actually 51 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: disappeared at the White House to talk about this very subject, 52 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: so we are in such good hands. Why do you 53 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: feel called to speak out about ADHD awareness. 54 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 3: Well, partially because I have it, and so it comes 55 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 3: very naturally because this is something that I'm speaking about 56 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 3: from firsthand experience, but also because. 57 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 4: I think as. 58 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 3: Someone who has lived through it, it's really frustrating trying 59 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 3: to navigate these waters with one. For a long time, 60 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 3: there wasn't a lot of great information about it. Yeah, 61 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 3: and number two, there was a lot of stigma around it. 62 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: I mean, women are historically underdiagnosed and untreated when it 63 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: comes to ADHD. Yes, from your research and just your 64 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: experience as someone who lives with this condition and speaking 65 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: to others about it, why do you think that is? 66 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 3: How much time do you have because I could go 67 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,839 Speaker 3: on before we have time. Honestly, I could write volumes 68 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 3: on this, just because it is such a rich area 69 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 3: of why women are under or misdiagnosed, and so some 70 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: of the reasons they're just historical. 71 00:03:58,200 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 4: Right. 72 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: For a long time, eighty was considered as like something 73 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 3: that hyper little boys have, and it was outside of 74 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 3: the scope of everything else, like if a woman was diagnosed, Nope, 75 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 3: you don't have it, because it was only hyper little boys. 76 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 3: The other reason is that women have different societal pressures 77 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 3: and so they are, you know, trained from a very 78 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 3: young age you have to conform, you have to do 79 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 3: these things. You can't cause trouble, you can't act up 80 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 3: in class, you have to So they're forced to mask 81 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: all these symptoms and kind of toe the line. Whereas 82 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 3: you know, they're feeling all these things, they're feeling restless there, 83 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 3: feeling impulsive, but they are so afraid of getting in 84 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 3: trouble or they're told like, you cannot be anything besides 85 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 3: this one image, and so they just hide their symptoms 86 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 3: because that's what they're told to do. They hide in 87 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 3: a mask. So that's another thing. Another humongous thing is hormones. 88 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 3: There is a huge correlation between hormonal cycles and ADHD expression, 89 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 3: and so like for example, with PMDD or PMS, people's 90 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 3: symptoms just like body symptoms, everything gets worse. But then 91 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 3: your focus also and executive function gets significantly worse. And 92 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 3: so a lot of times when people are going to 93 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 3: the doctor, they might be on their cyclone. People are 94 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: just like, it's puberty, or it's it's hormones, or it's 95 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 3: mommy brain, and so everything is getting blamed on hormones 96 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 3: throughout it. 97 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 4: It's perimenopause, it's menopause. 98 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: So there's so many different things that people are just 99 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 3: saying it's hormones. Everybody goes through this one. It's actually not. 100 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 3: It's it's hormones on top of an existing condition. 101 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 2: When you talk about these symptoms being different in girls 102 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: and boys, I'm curious how they show up for women. Yeah, 103 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 2: like what do we associate as a typical ADHD case 104 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 2: in a woman? 105 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 3: So you know, for males versus females, And when I'm 106 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 3: saying females assigned female at birth, I think we have 107 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 3: to look at the fact that females present more as 108 00:05:58,360 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 3: this inattentive picture. 109 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 4: For there are three different types. 110 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 3: There's inattentive, there's hyperactive, and there's combined type, which is 111 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 3: a combination of the two of them. Females present more 112 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 3: as this inattentive picture, so like the classic daydreaming, So 113 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: difficulty organizing things, difficulty staying on tasks, difficulty forgetting daily 114 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 3: routine like walking out of the house, did I brush 115 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 3: my teeth, did I you know, close the garage? 116 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 4: All of these things. 117 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 3: Difficulty with you know, people are talking to them and 118 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 3: they can't maintain the conversation or pay attention within the conversation, 119 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 3: getting easily derailed off task, or having difficulty with prolonged 120 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 3: focus in tasks. That's typically how women present, and even 121 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 3: young girls present. Males typically present as this combined type 122 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 3: or hyperactive picture, which is more of what you think 123 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 3: of with that physical impulsivity and hyperverbosity. So they're super talkative, 124 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 3: they are interrupting, they're being disruptive in class, they're fidgety, 125 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 3: they're getting up, they're running around. So those are the 126 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,559 Speaker 3: things that maybe the female presents like that, but it 127 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 3: is you know, it's shut down. My behavior is shut 128 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 3: down pretty quickly, and you know they're not the ones 129 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 3: typically running around. There's not they're not the ones getting 130 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 3: kind of a past, so they mask those symptoms. 131 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: I keep reading about studies that say that all of 132 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 2: our attention spans are decreasing at a rapid rate. So 133 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: I can imagine people listening thinking, well, my attention span 134 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: is sort of low, Like, what is the marker of 135 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: regular sort of twenty twenty four lack of attention Instagram 136 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: era versus a woman who suffers from ADHD. 137 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 3: So I think it's important to note that brain mod 138 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 3: is for real, right, that's something that we are in 139 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: an increasingly digital age, and we are attention is constantly 140 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 3: being fragmented by one hundred million things, by notifications, by dings, 141 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 3: by social media, by you know, work, all these different reasons. Yeah, 142 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 3: so it's hard to distinguish that. But what we're looking 143 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: for with ADHD is that this is a pervasive pattern 144 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 3: of behavior since childhood. So this isn't just a twenty 145 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: twenty four problem. This is coming from a really young age. 146 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 3: This is something that's causing significant dysfunction to your life. 147 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 3: And this is where a lot of people have issues 148 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 3: with the terminology of ADHD. Like the name ADHD attention 149 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 3: deficit hyperactivity disorder, not great I don't love the name, honestly, 150 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 3: but a lot of people have beef with the disorder part, 151 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 3: and I think the disorder part is actually really important 152 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 3: because ADHD causes dysfunction. It is a disorder. So it's 153 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 3: not a lot of people, you know, when they're talking 154 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 3: about ADHD within the context of neurodivergence and feeling like, oh, 155 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 3: everybody's brain works a little bit differently. I think that's 156 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 3: entirely true. But I also think that the disorder is 157 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 3: really important because it causes that person dysfunction and it 158 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: feels like a disorder and it is negatively impacting their lives. 159 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: Right. I rarely do this. I'm literally taking notes as 160 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: you're speaking, because this all just feels so relevant, Like 161 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: for me personally, I've wondered if I have it or 162 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: have a later in life diagnosis. As a parent, I 163 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: think this is so informative. Let's talk about late diagnosis 164 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: and how it impacts women. So I've heard anecdotally, you know, 165 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: stories of mothers who have reportedly discovered their own ADHD 166 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: after their children are diagnosed, because it's the first time 167 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: that it really causes them to think about how these 168 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: symptoms might be impacting them. How does a late diagnosis 169 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: impact us? 170 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the unfortunate thing is statistically males get diagnosed 171 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,359 Speaker 3: between six and eight years old. It's so early. Females 172 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 3: their average age of diagnosis is their mid thirties. WHOA, 173 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 3: so this is not it's not late, like this is 174 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 3: our average time of diagnosis, which is really unfortunate because 175 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 3: they present at the same time. It just gets skipped 176 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: and ignored, or or people just get passed from grade 177 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 3: to grade to grade and they don't really you know, 178 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 3: no one picks up on it or is unwilling to 179 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 3: do things about it. 180 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: Well. Also, then, like these women have suffered all throughout 181 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 2: studying for tests in school and college, potentially college years 182 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 2: and early work years. 183 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 4: It's not even just that, Danielle. 184 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 3: The thing that I really like think is worth talking 185 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 3: about with ADHG is it's not just a focus issue. 186 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 3: I think the scope of the DSM is kind of narrow, 187 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 3: but ADHD bleeds into everything else. 188 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 4: If you don't have enough attention to. 189 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 3: Like figure out what's happening actively in your life, you're 190 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 3: also are falling apart at home and so your homelike 191 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 3: gets impacted, your relationships are impacted, you are the way 192 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 3: you integrate with the rest of the world is impacted. 193 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 3: So these women that are getting diagnosed much later in life, 194 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: they've gone through a significant portion of their formative years 195 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 3: without a diagnosis, without understanding how their brain works, and 196 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 3: instead getting, you know, the input that I'm lazy, I'm dumb, 197 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 3: i can't live up to my potential, I'm not as 198 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 3: good as anybody else. And so that's what I think. 199 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 3: We're dealing with an entire generation of women that were 200 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 3: skipped and that are now kind of making amends and 201 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 3: you know, helping their children through this while also trying 202 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 3: to heal themselves. So it's a really complicated and confusing 203 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 3: snapshot of their lives. 204 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: Well, speaking of coming a long way, you've said that 205 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 2: the diagnostic criteria basically all comes from a book called 206 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 2: the DSM. Yeah, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. 207 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 2: I learned about this manual about four years ago. It's 208 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: it encapsulates basically every mental disorder you can think of. Yes, 209 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 2: but in the DSM, the criteria for ADHD is really 210 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: centered around focus. And I know we've been talking about 211 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 2: other symptoms, but ones that you've mentioned that are not 212 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: focused enough on our anxiety and mood. How does that 213 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 2: sort of like come up in people with ADHD. 214 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 3: Honestly, I think with I see it a lot in 215 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 3: patience of mind. I've also experienced this myself. I think 216 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 3: they travel hand in hand. And so if your ADHD 217 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 3: is unregulated and not properly controlled, you get overwhelmed, you 218 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 3: get exhausted, you get it looks like depression, it looks 219 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 3: like anxiety because you're trying to make up for these 220 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 3: deficits and can't. A lot of times, like without proper 221 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 3: instruction or methods to cope, it's really difficult to stay 222 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 3: on top of these things. And so I think that 223 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 3: you know, a lot of women get diagnosed with depression 224 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 3: that get diagnosed with anxiety, but really you need to 225 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 3: look at that underlying cause. So I think that like 226 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 3: in a dream world situation, the DSM would have like 227 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 3: a line in there, or like a credentialing kind of 228 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 3: thing where it's like, okay, well we will look at 229 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 3: the criteria for depression and anxiety, but is ADHD the 230 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 3: cause of it. If that's the case, then ADHD is 231 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: a diagnosis rather than ADHD. 232 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 4: Plus, these are those things. 233 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: We need to take a quick break, but we'll be 234 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: right back with doctor Sasha Hamdanni. And we're back with 235 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 1: doctor Sasha Humdannie. 236 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 2: You mentioned earlier that one of or some of the 237 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: symptoms that women deal with, particularly when they're younger, get internalized. Yeah, 238 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 2: what are the symptoms that we don't talk about as much? 239 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: You know? 240 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 3: I think, like if you're strictly going along with the DSM. 241 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest things is that, partially 242 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 3: because of the name attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, people get 243 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 3: really hung up on like, oh, if I have ADG, 244 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 3: I have to be hyperactive. You don't have to be 245 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 3: what you think of typically as hyperactive. It could be 246 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 3: like a mental hyperactivity that your brain is moving along 247 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 3: and clipping along so quickly that it's hard to organize 248 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 3: thoughts or categorize thoughts or figure out what your next 249 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 3: steps are. I think a very commonly overlooked one that 250 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: people usually call stress or momi brain is this feeling 251 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 3: of being catastrophically overwhelmed, just like all of these things 252 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 3: piling up on your plate and not knowing where to 253 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 3: start or how to attack the problem. And with this 254 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 3: like that problem gets compounded like every single day you're 255 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 3: not addressing the underlying issue. Your problems are getting bigger 256 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 3: and more complicated and increasingly more difficult to solve. So 257 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 3: I think that's one really important thing that we don't 258 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 3: talk about enough. 259 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: So you've mentioned hyperactivity. 260 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: I've heard you talk about two other subtypes of ADHD, 261 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: which are inattentive and combined. How do each of these 262 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 2: three how are they distinguished from each other? 263 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I mean the way that we make our 264 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 3: diagnosis is based on this set of criteria in the DSM, 265 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 3: which is the guidebook for symptomology and medical criteria. So 266 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 3: the hyperactive is more of what you think about with 267 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 3: impulsivity and hyperactivity, like difficulty staying in your seat and 268 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 3: you're constantly fidgeting, and you are talking a lot, interrupting 269 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 3: a lot, blurting on an answer, not letting other people 270 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 3: participate in conversation. And then combined type is a combination 271 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 3: of both of those. You need to hit a certain 272 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 3: number and have a combination of both criteria. 273 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: When you mentioned hormones, my first thought was I recently 274 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 2: interviewed a woman who is making a running shoe, a 275 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: performance shoe for women. I was unaware, but most of 276 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 2: the running shoes that we're all wearing are actually basically 277 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 2: made from male molds, and we're just wearing smaller sizes. 278 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: And when I was asking her what the impacts are, 279 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: one of the things she brought up was that our 280 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 2: hormones actually really affect our physiology and how we're running, 281 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 2: and that we need certain things at different times of 282 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: the months. But the issue is that it's completely understudied 283 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 2: and it's expensive to study hormones. I was really interested 284 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: to see you talk about how much hormones can impact 285 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 2: ADHD and our experience with it as women. 286 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: Can you elaborate on that a bit? 287 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 3: I think you're absolutely right. I think this is a 288 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 3: hugely understudied area because hormones are fluctuant with ADHD. How 289 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: this presents its actually really distinct, and really important to 290 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 3: note is because with those hormonal cycles, and you know, 291 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 3: if we're talking about the menstrual cycle, there is a 292 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 3: period of time premenstrually, so before your period actually starts 293 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 3: where your estrogen drops. Okay, fine, whatever you might be, 294 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,959 Speaker 3: you know, PMS, having all of those symptoms. But what 295 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 3: people don't also kind of notice is that estrogen and 296 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 3: dopamine kind of go hand in hand. So when your 297 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 3: estrogen levels drop, your dopamine levels drop, and that just 298 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 3: leads to this chaos. In all of a sudden, you're 299 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: unable to do simple tests that you were able to 300 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 3: do before. So you're having a much harder time with 301 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 3: like planning how to do things, executing tasks, making sure 302 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 3: things get done. You're dropping the balls on things, and 303 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 3: so it gets even more confusing because then you're just like, well, 304 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 3: I know I feel bad, but it's because I'm not 305 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 3: getting as much done or I'm not But people don't 306 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 3: actually put those two things together, that your hormones are 307 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 3: making your ADHD symptoms worse, and so that's you know, 308 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 3: these are some of the things that you look at 309 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 3: when you're doing an assessment for someone like do you 310 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 3: have a cyclical variation? Do you notice your symptoms get worse? 311 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 3: Which is why I think it is so so, so 312 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 3: so so vital to track your patterns. 313 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: I'm so mad right now. I gotta be honest, I'm 314 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: so upset. I'm so upset that I am just now 315 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: finding out about all of this at thirty six years old, 316 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: Like that is so messed up. I know, I've learned 317 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: so much about my body in the past few years, 318 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: particularly since I became a mom, and I know where 319 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: I am in my cycle at all times. I know 320 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: that my lutel phase is going to be chaos every month. 321 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: But you just helped me make the connection between my 322 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: desire to seek out dopamine inducing experiences and also my 323 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: lack of focus during that week before my period. 324 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I spone, don't even feel bad about that 325 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 3: because I literally I'd gone to school essentially the entirety 326 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 3: of my whole life to do psychiatry to learn about 327 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 3: the brain. And it wasn't until you know, it was 328 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 3: during COVID that I was like, oh god, you know 329 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 3: it is so it was so hard to stay on 330 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,719 Speaker 3: top of my ADHD symptoms, and so I started thinking about, like, 331 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 3: what are ways that I could make this better and 332 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: reach more people with this, And so my sister and 333 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 3: I created an app. And one of the things on 334 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 3: the app is like a focus tracking thing where you 335 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 3: get to see your patterns and you see it very visually. 336 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 4: I did that. 337 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 3: So when I was beta testing this app, I did 338 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 3: eight months of that. It was a four day period 339 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 3: every single month where I was like I was tracking 340 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 3: my impulsivity, and I was like, oh, my impulsivity is high, 341 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 3: and my impulsivity is high. 342 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 4: It would be four days. 343 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 3: And then I went back and I looked at my 344 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 3: credit card statement and there was a six hundred dollars 345 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 3: bump like on average those four days. And it's because 346 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 3: I was just sitting, not like spacing out and like 347 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 3: going on Amazon or going on Revolve or going on 348 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 3: I just was doing this so mindlessly. And then I 349 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 3: was like, that's so weird. Why does this happen every 350 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 3: day and every time at the end of the month. 351 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 3: And I was like, Oh, okay, that's why it's so hormonal. 352 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 2: As you're sharing more about your own symptoms, I'm really 353 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: curious about your own diagnosis and how old were you 354 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: when you were diagnosed the. 355 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 3: First or the second time. I was diagnosed kind of 356 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 3: twice both. 357 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: I didn't know you could be diagnosed twice. 358 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 3: Okay, So the first time, I was in fourth grade, 359 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 3: and it was like I was just I presented kind 360 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 3: of like a boywood. I was super disruptive. I was 361 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 3: starting riots in my classroom. I was like getting up 362 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 3: on the desk. I was just out of control. 363 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: Also legend though, legend. 364 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 3: So you know, the teachers in the school taxed my parents. 365 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 3: My mom was a pediatrician, and she's like, okay, yeah, 366 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 3: there could be something. She got me in to see, 367 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 3: like somebody. I was diagnosed with ADHD and I actually 368 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 3: started medication. Now this was many years ago, and it 369 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 3: was still super super stigmatized. I was a really sensitive 370 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 3: little kid. My parents didn't tell me I had ADHD. 371 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 3: They just gave me my vitamins. So every day I 372 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 3: took my in vitamins and I felt better, and I 373 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 3: started doing really well in school and enjoying school. And 374 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 3: I did I continued to do well. I didn't change 375 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 3: my dose. I didn't do anything, continue to do well 376 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 3: all throughout high school. Got into medical school out of 377 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 3: high school, and that was the first time I was 378 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 3: away from home. 379 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: I obviously, you skipped college. You're a genius. 380 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 3: So I did college and med school at the same time. 381 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, So I applied. I got into this program. 382 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 3: So I started my med school classes when I was seventeen. 383 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. 384 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: Wow. 385 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 3: So I got into my classes and I was used 386 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 3: to being awesome. Like in high school, I was awesome. 387 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 3: I was on top of it. I didn't have to. 388 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 4: Try really hard. 389 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 3: I was just like great at school and I really 390 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 3: loved it. I got into med school. I had a 391 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 3: neurology test and they would like post the scores on 392 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 3: the board and you'd go and find your number and 393 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 3: figure out which your thing was. And I remember going 394 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: to that thing and I was like, oh my god, 395 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: somebody got a thirty two. What is wrong with this person? 396 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 3: And then I was like, oh wait, that was me. 397 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 3: I got a thirty two. 398 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: What did the thirty two mean? 399 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 3: It was a test in like a neurobiology lab, so 400 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 3: you were like writing down, like, okay, these are the 401 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 3: structures of brain. And I was like, I study, I 402 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 3: don't understand. I went I went to a teacher. I 403 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 3: was like, this is impossible. How did this happen? I 404 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 3: didn't turn over the test, so I turned in the exam. 405 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 3: Didn't turn it over. 406 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: Oh I've done that. 407 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 3: And I was like, oh my god, I've made this 408 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 3: mistake like four times this month. Like I did this 409 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 3: with a homework assignment, I did this with a lab 410 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 3: and I was like, there is something wrong with me. 411 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 3: This happened again and again and again, and I was like, 412 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 3: like it got so bad to the point where they 413 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: were like you need to, Like, I don't think you're 414 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 3: gonna make it through. So my dad at this point 415 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 3: was just like, you know what, come home, let's figure 416 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 3: out what's going on. 417 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 4: So I go home. 418 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 3: He was like, are you taking vitamins? I was like, 419 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 3: I don't know where they are, so no, obviously no, 420 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 3: I'm not. Oh wow, and he's like, okay, so you 421 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 3: have ADHD. I was like, there's no way, There's no way. 422 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 3: I was super angry. I felt really betrayed. I felt like, 423 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 3: you know, I was given medication without my knowledge. 424 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 4: You know, I just didn't believe it. I go back 425 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 4: to school. I'm like, I'm. 426 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 3: Gonna try with now. I know I don't have a medication. 427 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 3: I'll prove to you I don't have ADG, for sure 428 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 3: have ADG. It didn't get easier. I was just falling 429 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 3: more and more behind. My dad pulls me out again. 430 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 3: We sit and he's like, I don't want you to 431 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 3: worry about school. He's like, for the next week or 432 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 3: however long they have, we will just go and study 433 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,479 Speaker 3: the So we were going to the library and we 434 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 3: were like reading about ADHD. We're reading about the brain, 435 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 3: We're reading about these like different like brain structures and 436 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 3: how people grew and developed and like from evolution and genetics, 437 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 3: and I mean, it was just incredible the amount of 438 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: information I got. And then after that I was assessed again. 439 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 3: They were like, yeah, you have ADHD. And so then 440 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 3: I got more ownership of like, Okay, now I understand 441 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 3: how my brain works a little bit more. 442 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 4: What do I want to do? What are the medications 443 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 4: going to do? 444 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 3: And then I was just trial and error with medications 445 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 3: and then that's my story. 446 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: Your dad sounds awesome. 447 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, he was the most. 448 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 3: I mean, and my mom super My mom is a pediatrician, 449 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 3: really really educated about this stuff, but my dad was 450 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 3: the most. 451 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 4: He was my biggest cheerleader always. 452 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 3: I thought about this and I was like, you know, 453 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 3: I wish they had like it had been handled differently 454 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 3: or I had been explained. Yeah, but I don't think 455 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 3: they had been given that knowledge either. It was just 456 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 3: this highly stigmatized thing. They were like, honestly, we got 457 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 3: that information. We were scared. Like the information we were 458 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 3: given is like, this is psychiatric disorder. People typically don't 459 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 3: live alone, you know, if they have ADHD. And so 460 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 3: they were like it sounded horrible We didn't know how 461 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 3: to frame that to you. We just wanted to try 462 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 3: something to see if it helped. It did it never 463 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 3: came up again, so we've come a long way since. 464 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 2: Then It's time for another short break, But don't go 465 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 2: anywhere because we'll be right back to wellness Wednesday with 466 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 2: doctor Sasha Hamdannie. 467 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: And we're back with doctor Sasha Hamdannie. Well, I want 468 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: to talk about how you manage your ADHD. You mentioned 469 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: going through the pandemic and how that really revealed to 470 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: you a lot of the patterns that ADHD has brought 471 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: into your life. And I'm curious, what did the pandemic 472 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: teach you about how environment and circumstance play a role 473 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: in the management of this condition. 474 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 3: So I think it has a lot to do with it, right, 475 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 3: So I struggled for a long time throughout medical school 476 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 3: trying to figure out like what the right combination of 477 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 3: medication and altered my environment could be. 478 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 4: I got through medical. 479 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 3: School, but I don't feel like I gained mastery or 480 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 3: ownership of it until I got into like psychiatry residency, 481 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 3: because as soon as I landed there, I was surrounded 482 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 3: by psychiatrists and therapists and they were just like, oh, 483 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 3: let me help you, let me, let me make your 484 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 3: life easier. And it was like a crack, like three 485 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 3: years of intensive like restructuring and building up my self 486 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 3: esteem again, which had been basically zero after medical school. 487 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,959 Speaker 3: And so I think that they in that program, I 488 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 3: think they kind of also taught me how to manipulate 489 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 3: the environments that I'm in for the greatest success. And 490 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 3: so I think that's what's been the greatest thing that 491 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 3: I've learned from that, Like what do I need to 492 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 3: do to adjust the environment that I'm in to make 493 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 3: it more conducive for my brain. They'll give you some examples, 494 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 3: like for me, I don't learn if I'm typing on 495 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 3: a computer, and so like even with my patients, I 496 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 3: take notes on the computer. I put their information on 497 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 3: a medical chart in the in the computer, but while 498 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 3: they're talking, I'm writing because it's going into my brain. 499 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 3: And that's that's how I learn, and that's how I'm 500 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 3: absorbing what you're telling me. Things like with sleep and 501 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 3: with waking up, I tried as much as I can 502 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 3: to keep to the same routine. I need to kind 503 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 3: of manipulate my schedule or plan things so it's not 504 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 3: running past that ten PM because if I get if 505 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 3: I'm not in bed by like eleven, things get real 506 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 3: weird the next day. So like trying to figure out 507 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 3: things like that. Eating was a huge, huge thing for 508 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 3: me because it's taken me a long time to figure out, 509 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 3: like how to eat to sustain and nourish my body 510 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 3: in a way that's gonna not make me feel number 511 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 3: one disgusting, where I'm like, I'm forcing myself to eat 512 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 3: and I hate every second of it. But something that's 513 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 3: going to help my brain? What can I What can 514 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 3: I eat that's not going to make me sleepy? What 515 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 3: can I eat to give me long lasting energy? What 516 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 3: can I eat at night to keep me full through 517 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 3: the night so I'm not waking up at two am 518 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, I'm hungry and fully awake. 519 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: If people listening feel like any of these symptoms ring true, 520 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: or they have a suspicion that maybe they have gone undiagnosed, 521 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 2: what do you think the first step is? 522 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: What do you suggest that they do? 523 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 3: My first step is learn about it as much as 524 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 3: you can. I mean even before you go to a doctor. 525 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 3: If you just immerse yourself in it, because I think 526 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 3: that you are the only person who understands your own 527 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 3: internal environment. And it's important to have a vocabulary and 528 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,959 Speaker 3: learn about things because you might get into and be like, oh, 529 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 3: that actually doesn't sound like me, or you might get 530 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 3: into it and be like, oh, this really does sound 531 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 3: like me, Like and I didn't even realize that this 532 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 3: was related to it. So having understanding that is going 533 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 3: to be huge. Number two, Track your patterns, Track your patterns, 534 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 3: and this is like why it keep screaming about it, 535 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 3: because then you're going to know, like is there a 536 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 3: hormonal swing with it? Is there times where like is 537 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 3: this all caused because I did not drink a single 538 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 3: glass of water for the entire month of October? 539 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 4: Yes? Probably? 540 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 3: And then if you still feel strongly about it, it's 541 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 3: seeking out the right type of help. So you can 542 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 3: get assessments through a therapist. You can get assessments through 543 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 3: a primary care doctor, you get assessment through a psychiatrist. 544 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 3: Psychiatrist not only can they diagnose you, but they can 545 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 3: treat you. If medication is the option you want to 546 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 3: go through, and I think getting specific therapy, like I 547 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 3: will tell tell you that I would not be in 548 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 3: the position that I am right now if I hadn't 549 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 3: had those instructors giving me that specific therapy and helping 550 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 3: me kind of restructure my life because it you know, 551 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 3: with medication, it's great, but when the medication wears off, 552 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 3: I'm still still have stuff to do. So it's important 553 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 3: to have those good basics to build on. 554 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 2: Okay, you developed an app that you mentioned earlier that's 555 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 2: geared to be an ADHD companion. I need to better 556 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 2: understand this. From what I read, it's really about tracking patterns. 557 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 558 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 3: So Focus Jamie is the name of the app, and 559 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 3: it's kind of just like this comprehensive platform. So it's 560 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 3: got educational modules, which I mean they're just like, really 561 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 3: it feels like an Instagram swipe through you're going, but 562 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 3: like by the end of that two minutes you have 563 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 3: learned something new about your brain. So there's educational modules. 564 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 3: There's a focus tracker where you could track like how 565 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 3: much water I drank, this is what I ate, this 566 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 3: is how much I slept, this is how impulsive I was, 567 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 3: and so you can see your patterns over the month. 568 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 3: There's a journal. There's also this is coming out later 569 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 3: this month, and I'm actually so excited about this. I 570 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 3: felt like where I was getting stuck is sometimes I 571 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 3: was like, I can't even make my to do list, 572 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 3: Like I can't even break down this task because it 573 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 3: is so complicated and hard and overwhelming for me right now. 574 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 3: But we just integrated AI into the app, so now 575 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 3: you type in what you want to do, it'll break 576 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 3: it down for you in eight steps. If you're still 577 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 3: having difficulty with it, it'll break it down further. You 578 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 3: can import that into your to do list and you 579 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 3: can go through and continue along your day. 580 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: I love that. That's so good. I can't wait to 581 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: download this app. I feel like, even if you don't 582 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: have ADHD, your app sounds so helpful. Yeah, just all 583 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: of us living in the digital age. 584 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 3: It kind of helps break things down because I feel like, 585 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 3: especially with housework, especially with stuff that is so boring 586 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 3: to me, so boring that I don't want to do it. 587 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 3: I really like being able to break things into those 588 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 3: tiny little chunks. 589 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 2: Doctor Humdannie, thank you so much. This sum was really enlightening. 590 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. That's so much fun. 591 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: You're the coolest psychiatrist ever. 592 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 4: Oh come on, come on, be real. 593 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 2: Doctor Sasha Hamdani is a Board certified psychiatrist and the 594 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 2: author of Self Care for People with ADHD. You can 595 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 2: find her on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube as the psych 596 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 2: Doctor MD. 597 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're talking with j 598 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: Hay Kim. She's the author of City of night Birds, 599 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: which was selected as the December pick for Reese's Book Club. 600 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: Thank you to our partners at coli Guard, the one 601 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: of a kind way to screen for colon cancer in 602 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: the privacy and comfort of your own home. Talk to 603 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: your doctor or healthcare provider, or go to coliguard dot 604 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: com slash podcast to see if you are eligible to 605 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: order online. If you're forty five or older and at 606 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon 607 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: cancer with Coliguard. 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