1 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, this is Lee Clasgal when We're Talking Transports. 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: Lee Klasgow, Senior Freight, Transportation and Logistics analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's in house research arm of almost five hundred analysts 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: and strategists around the globe. A quick public service announcement 6 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: before we dive in. Your support is instrumental to keep 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: bringing great guests and conversations to you, our listeners, and 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: we need your support. So please, if you enjoy this podcast, 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: share it, like it and leave a comment. Also, if 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: you've got ideas, feedback, or just want to talk transports, 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm always happy to connect. You can find me on 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal, on LinkedIn, or on x at Logistics Lee. 13 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,279 Speaker 1: This week we are live at Bloomberg's Farm, Food and 14 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: Fuel Summit in Kansas City, Missouri. This two day event 15 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: brings together agriculture, energy, financial and policy leaders to discuss 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: trends and the outlook for these industries. Key for these 17 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: commodities are their ability to move them around, and that's 18 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: why I'm here. I'm happy today that I'll be speaking 19 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: with Rodrigo Gon Covs, the CEO and co founder of 20 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: Go Flux, and Arthur Netto, a partner and director for 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: commercial and Innovation at Alpha mar Shipping Agency. We discussed 22 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: about how Brazil moves its soybeans and grains from the 23 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: farms to the domestic and international markets. I'm here live 24 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: today at Bloomberg's Farm, Food and Fuel Summit in Kansas City, Missouri, 25 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: and I'm stalking today. 26 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: With Rodrigo Gonsalves CooA, co founder of go Flux. Go 27 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: Flux is a Brazilian basis freight platform. We connect shippers 28 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: and carry especially in agury business in Brazil and South America, 29 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: in order to streamline negotiations, get data and provide the 30 00:01:58,400 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: best insights for free decision. 31 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: All right, well, thanks for joining us with Rigo. Really 32 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: appreciate you coming onto the podcast. So, you know, we 33 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: usually talk a lot about what's going on in North 34 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: America and the freight markets, and I was excited to 35 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: have you here talk about Brazil. Can you just give 36 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: us a kind of overview of what the freight markets 37 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: are like right now in Brazil? 38 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: Wow, things are pretty tough for Brazilian farmers and operators. 39 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 2: Frates are getting higher since twenty twenty three. And the problem, 40 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: the main challenge that we see today in terms of 41 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: rates is how we're managing the overwhelming demand of freights. 42 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 2: We're ever seen more the one eighty million tons of soybeans. 43 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: There's a lot of corn going on coming, sugar, sugarcane 44 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 2: and also fuel. So it's an overwhelming demand and it 45 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: pressures a lot the freight capacity. So we're seeing in 46 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 2: the last five years and strictly from the next following 47 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: years rising costs of freights. So pressure in margins is 48 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: a pretty pretty uh tough business and and tough times 49 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 2: for everyone who's hire freight and managing freight, trying to 50 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 2: predict and forecast how the freight is going to behave 51 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: in the future because there's a lot of things going 52 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: on in Brazil and we are of course we are 53 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 2: also affected by the events abroad such as Iran crisis 54 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: and et cetera. 55 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: And so your company focuses primarily on trucking, right sure, 56 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: trucking on and what is you know, a lot of 57 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: our listeners might not really know what the trucking market 58 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,119 Speaker 1: is like in Brazil. In the US, there's a bunch 59 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: of you know, large companies. They could be publicly traded, 60 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: family owned, and then there's you know, a lot of 61 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: owner operators out there operating independently. Is that a similar 62 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: market to what goes on in Brazil or is there 63 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: something structurally different in Brazil? 64 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: I guess, I guess we have more similarities to when 65 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: ComBar Brazil to America. We also have great companies, large 66 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: logitic operators, but most of the markets is very, very fragmented. 67 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: This leading company has less than five percent of the market, 68 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: so we are based we rely on a lot of 69 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: capacity on independent truck drivers. So we have more than 70 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: two million dependent truck drivers who are suffering with low 71 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: margins or older trucks and et cetera. So it's a 72 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: very fragment market. And depending on the sector, if you 73 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: look at the industry or agribusiness, things are more professional 74 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: than others. In agribusiness we rely on the older fleets 75 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 2: and most of the companies had to hire in them 76 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 2: penetruck drivers to. 77 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 3: Enhance their capacity. But we see a lot of similarities 78 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 3: than Brazil America. 79 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: And so connecting the dots and what you were talking about, 80 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: So our freight rates relatively depressed, but they're moving up higher? 81 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: Is that fair to characterize the presum market higher, especially 82 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 2: because of the demand when we see crisis like that. 83 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: The oil prices are rising, so the diesel prices are 84 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 2: rising in the domestic market. We have a precires on costs. 85 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 2: But even if that we didn't have anything like this 86 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 2: going on, the freight rates would be pressured by higher 87 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 2: because of the demand. We saw from last year to 88 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: this year an increase of almost twenty million tons of 89 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: cargo only in the agri business sector, and the capacity, 90 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: the amount of trucks available to load of those cargo 91 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: is pretty much the same because Brazil has one of 92 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 2: the biggest interest rates in the world, so it's very 93 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: expensive to buy new trucks to finance new trucks, so 94 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 2: the fleet is not rising, it's not enhancing the capacity 95 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: over the years, and you have the trucks that go 96 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 2: out of the business because they are too old to 97 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: keep doing the large the large miles and the longest drivers. 98 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 2: So the inflation of rates is the inflation of demand. 99 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 2: And now we are also pressured by rising costs, especially oil. 100 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: Got you and can you talk about what has changed 101 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: in the freight markets as relates to egg in Brazil. 102 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: You know, since I guess you know tariffs here in 103 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: the United States have changed trade policies. That has that 104 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: impacted the market locally in Brazil. 105 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:17,239 Speaker 3: Not that much. 106 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: What we have in Brazil is the time that we 107 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: are living now is the time when farmers, trading houses 108 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: begin to understand that we rely almost one hundred percent 109 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 2: of a capacity on trucks. We have rails, we have barges, 110 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: but it's very different from the US. Our production is way, 111 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: very way from the port. We have some regulations that 112 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: make all this management more difficult. We have a fixed 113 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 2: price table defined by the government. But in the end 114 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: of the day, our problem is how can we manage 115 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 2: freights in a better way considering that we rely most 116 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: of our volume only on trucks, even when the rail 117 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: capacity here in Brazil is different because we have major 118 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 2: lines and major concentration terminals, So even when you use 119 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 2: rails to move the cargo, we rely one hundred percent 120 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: on trucks to move the cargo from the farms to 121 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 2: the rail terminals. So we have those some issues regarding regulations, 122 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: government and et cetera. But our problem is way beyond that. 123 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: So it's a little bit different from America, which is 124 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: having such as the kind of impacts. 125 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: And what does your company do to kind of I 126 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: guess improve the process. 127 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: Well, we digitalize the freight negotiation, so we work like 128 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: a Google map or ways handling traffic. So whenever we 129 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: have we had a more than sixty million tons of 130 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: cargo in our platform last year. So when we look 131 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: at that kind of volume, we know where when the 132 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: cargo is loaded and the point A where is going 133 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: to the point B when it's going to be arriving, 134 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: point B which is the truck, which is which the driver, 135 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: and we help those companies to connect the driver and 136 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: the cargo capacity before they go in into the detonation. 137 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 3: So we will enhance productivity. 138 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: We reduce the lower the idle capacity, the time of 139 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: waiting for a new cargo, so we make the system 140 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: goes and goes better in terms of productivity. Our goal 141 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: is should be even ten times bigger than now, so 142 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: we have a bigger impact in terms of better productivity 143 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: and doing more with less trucks. We have this data 144 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 2: in Brazil that probably forty percent of the time of 145 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: the truck is. 146 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 3: Waiting for the new cargo. 147 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: So if you imagine that if you can reduce from 148 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: forty percent to twenty five percent to fifteen percent, you 149 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: are enhanced the freight capacity without putting any new truck 150 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: in the business. So this is one of the things 151 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 2: that technology does for us, and we go as go Flux. 152 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: Our goal is to connect as many shippers as you 153 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 2: can to more than ten thousand companies in Brazil. Brazils 154 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: has more than three hundred thousand companies. We have more 155 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: than ten thousands connected to our ecosystem and make those 156 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: companies work together. When we know where the car is going, 157 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: we know descently the movement of the car. We can 158 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 2: use technology, use intelligence and data and AI to understand 159 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 2: or orchestrate better the freight movement and then and hence 160 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: margins on the carriers and reduce prices for the shippers 161 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 2: because you're doing more with the same assets. 162 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: And so as part of your system, are you like 163 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: a freight broker too or are you just making them 164 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: more efficient when they get to their destination. 165 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: We're not freight brokers. What we do is to orchestrate 166 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 2: the supply and demand. So if you're a shipper you're 167 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: looking for a carrier, you use goflux to connect with 168 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 2: thousands of carriers around Brazil and South America. If you're 169 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 2: a carrier, if you're looking for a new shipment or 170 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: cargo goal, FLOX is the best way to get new 171 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 2: customers to get to the car with the lower cost 172 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 2: of acquisition. 173 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: So it's more like a load board than it is 174 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 1: a brokerage. 175 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: But it's closed. 176 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: So if you are a shipper, you are connected to 177 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 2: that suppliers that you already know, so your cargo opportunity 178 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 2: is not available for pretty much everyone. So we are 179 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 2: close marketplace and when we connect shippers to that carriers 180 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: they want to operate. 181 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: With, and and carriers they I guess they pay like 182 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: a subscription. It's like a monthly subscription, and same with shippers. 183 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, the shippers pay a higher monthly fee. 184 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: It depends on the amount of volume they handling the platform. 185 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: And the carriers also pay whenever they are active in 186 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: the platform. So if you're a carrier just looking and 187 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: trying to participate join the beads in the platform, but 188 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 2: you didn't want anything, you pay nothing. But when you 189 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: start to have revenues out of this this freight opportunity, 190 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 2: so then we start to pay. And how old is 191 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: the company we have eight years now eight years yeah, yeah. 192 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 2: And one thing is this interesting now in our business model, 193 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 2: that something that we the new frontier of our business. 194 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: We are financing the carriers. So if you imagine in Brazil, 195 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: you are Shiper and you will hire our carrier, they 196 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: will load the cargo tomorrow, they will deliver in two 197 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: plus days. The frese is only going to be paid 198 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 2: thirty to forty five days after. So that's this mismatch 199 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: of cash flow for the carriage is insane and they 200 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: usually have a lot higher cost of money to keep 201 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: the operations running. What we do is, whenever a cargo 202 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: is hired now in my platform, the carrier can anticipate 203 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: the receivable was using my proprietary fund. So we're going 204 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: to be we're going to handle more than six hundred 205 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 2: millionarireiyes almost something a bit more than a one hundred 206 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: million dollars and free factoring for the carriers in order 207 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: to provide fair money, fair cash flow and other for 208 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 2: them to enhance the producceiy in the because sometimes you 209 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: have the capacity, you have the driver, you have the 210 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: truck available to be loaded, but you don't have money 211 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: to pay that the driver up prone, so the chain 212 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: is not moving because of lack of cash flow. 213 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: So and for your revenue model, is it more subscriptions 214 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: or is it more of this factoring loading. 215 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: We're just changing from subscription to this based fee based 216 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: factory and then bank accounts, credit and more complex things. 217 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: But everything is connected to the freight rate. So go 218 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 2: flox is going to be a bank in the future 219 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 2: for sure. But our acquisition channel is always going to 220 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: be the platform connecting shippers and carriers because it's there 221 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 2: there when we can make a difference organizing and improving 222 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 2: the logistics, the productivity and the money of the freight 223 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 2: can be handled and into our ecosystem by financial solutions. 224 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: And for your financial solutions aspect to have you partnered 225 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: with a local bank or you guys are self funding. 226 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 2: Now we have with structured proprietary fund. We are investors 227 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: of this fund, but we capture money on the market 228 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 2: to we enhance this this this vehicle. We have seventy 229 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: five million reais roughly twelve million dollars of fund that 230 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 2: goes U goes around that at least one time in 231 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 2: a month. So this is what the tools that we 232 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 2: have in the banking side, we have a bank as 233 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 2: a service provider, so they made all the infrastructure and 234 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: they build a white label bank for us in order 235 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 2: to provide bank accounts for the carriers to pay drivers, 236 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 2: to pay their taxes and et cetera, with using cheaper 237 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 2: services than traditional banks. 238 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: And when you're looking at you know, the agg market 239 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: in Brazil or soybeans the largest commodity. 240 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: Sure sure soybean and corn in corn, yeah, and outside of. 241 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: You know, the harvest, what is the biggest driver in 242 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: terms of growth for the freight markets locally? Like you 243 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: know again like the tariffs that change where the agg goes, 244 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: so it's like longer lengths of whole Like, you know, 245 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: what are the biggest kind of movements and I think market. 246 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 2: The biggest movement that we are seeing now in the 247 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: next following years is the corn ethanol. Brazil used to 248 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: be a sugarcane ethanol basis a different from the US 249 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: who is based on corn. But during the latest year, 250 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: past years, there's a lot of investment in plans to 251 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: process corn. And the problem that we're seeing in you run, 252 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 2: Brazil is the largest corn exporter to be ran Iran 253 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: is now no longer buying corn at least for a 254 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: month for a while. Yeah, so's there's gonna be a 255 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: lot of corn available for transforming into into ethanol. And 256 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 2: this movement puts in the domestic market of freight more 257 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: than twenty five to thirty million tones in the countryside, 258 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 2: and it wasn't there before those investments, So we are 259 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: The change that we are seeing now in terms of 260 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: the demand is we will have more demand of freights 261 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 2: in the country, not in the corridors of exportation, and 262 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: that pressures not only the bulk transportation but also the 263 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 2: tanks because that corn will be uh transported from the 264 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 2: farms and et cetera, to the plants to the to 265 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: transforming ethanol, and there's gonna be a lot a lot 266 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 2: more ethanol going on using tanks, and the Brasilian fleet 267 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: is not prepared for that, so there's gonna be we 268 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: we are seeing now a huge amount of investments to 269 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: renew the fleet and to capture all that movement. Even 270 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: more than anything happening outside, This revolution is going on 271 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: inside Brazil now. 272 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: And then you know, I guess what, you know, we're 273 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: talking about growth. So what is the biggest risk facing 274 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: the domestic market there's. 275 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: A lot of risks that we see. 276 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 2: Above the surface and something that that's not that visible. 277 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: One of the biggest risks is the fleet capacity and 278 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: the capacity of the market to renew, to renew it, 279 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: to buy new trucks. The obsolescence of trucks is something 280 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 2: that very crucial. We have average twenty twenty one twenty 281 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 2: two years old fleet, so there is a lot that's 282 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: not efficiency when we have a fleet a fleet that 283 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: olde but on one of the things that we see 284 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: as a major concern is compliance issues because fleet freight 285 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 2: is moving a lot of money and it's a free market, 286 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 2: so it's supply demand market. There's no fit stable. It's 287 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: not a go Flox works like a freate exchange for 288 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: one side, and we streamline and bring more compliance to 289 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 2: the process. But companies who doesn't use any platforms such 290 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: as go flex relies on what'sapp, telephone and emails to 291 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: trade and negotiate phrase and there's a lot of bribery 292 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 2: on that. And when you see a market with the 293 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: low margins such as truck business or even agriculture business, 294 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 2: if you lose four or five percent because they are 295 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 2: paying bribes show to another one to hire your company. 296 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 2: There's this money going out of our hands and nobody 297 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: is seeing that. And this is a problem that goes 298 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 2: all around the infrastructure of transportation, and it's a risk 299 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 2: because any professional market needs to have a compliance to 300 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 2: work professionally. And this is something that we are still 301 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 2: working and struggling every day as go Flex and other 302 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: companies to improve the governance of freight because if we don't, 303 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: if you do not succeed in improving governance and compliance, 304 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 2: all the efficients that we gather in the operations goes 305 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: away with somebody paying bribes to hire freight. 306 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: Right, and so these trucking companies over over time, do 307 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: you think the market becomes more in sellalidated or you 308 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: think it will always lend itself to this independent owner 309 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: operator model. 310 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: I think it's going to be like this for a 311 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 2: while for a few years. But at the same time, 312 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 2: we see huge opportunities for major investments to consolidate and 313 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: then aggregate more more capacity, more professionalism, more digitalization, to 314 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: get transportation to the next center. You know, what we 315 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 2: see is a private owned companies, family owned companies such 316 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: as we see here, and they those guys have problems 317 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 2: to understand and the new tools, how they can manage 318 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 2: their business better, how they can be more productive, and 319 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 2: et cetera. And that movement of consolidation usually brings more professionalism, 320 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,959 Speaker 2: more efficient to any market as well as transportation. So 321 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 2: we see a lot of room. 322 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 3: For that, but. 323 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: We still didn't see the actual movement of big companies 324 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 2: trying to build this movement of consolidation by companies and 325 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: then build something bigger. Yeah, I think there's this this 326 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 2: movement is to to come. 327 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: And so you know, you talked about like your company 328 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: is really focused on the agg agg freight market. Is 329 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: there opportunities to go into other markets, whether it's like 330 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: you know, the drage market for containers or just drive 331 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: in or refer containers, Like, are there other opportunities you 332 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: guys are looking at or you're just focused on egg? 333 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 3: Sure? 334 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 2: What when we say agribusiness, we look at the expanded 335 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 2: the agri business impact so well well handle a lot 336 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 2: of fuels for instance, a lot of food industry is 337 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: what we work on the first phase of the of 338 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: the agribusiness, so soybeing corn sugar, but the actual first generation, 339 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: second generation transformation, so when we handle corn, we also 340 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 2: handle d d G. We handle corn ethanol, we handle 341 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: corn UH, food based UH and and et cetera. We 342 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: work a lot of mining operations, transportation and a lot 343 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: of other soft commodities and and et cetera. And we 344 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 2: see a lot of opportunities. And our philosophy is go 345 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 2: flex is important for every kind of business that spends 346 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 2: a lot of money on freight. So we we won't 347 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 2: be on a farming UH, pharmaceutical windows referencetance because the 348 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 2: freight doesn't. 349 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 3: Have that impact on the product and the process. 350 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 2: So customer customer goods, containers, UH, refrigerating cargo, all of 351 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 2: those those commodities and and kinds of cargo are target. 352 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 2: We have customers on that area. But of course the 353 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 2: largest amount of a mus and so being corn, fertilizers 354 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 2: and fuels. 355 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: All right, I guess if you if you could look 356 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: into your your crystal ball, you know, where do you 357 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: see freight demand UH in the Brazil market over the 358 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: next six months. 359 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 3: Wow, it's gonna be. 360 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 2: There's a lot of question marks on the next six 361 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 2: months because we don't know yet what's going to happen 362 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: to We run and the Presilian the amount of export 363 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,719 Speaker 2: of core, but if we If I can do my bets, 364 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: I would say that we'll have a lot of demand 365 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 2: and at least five to ten percent higher than last 366 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 2: year considering all those impacts in terms of demand, because 367 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 2: we have the climate and the weather is perfect for 368 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: a huge crop season of corn, sugarcane, ethanol is growing 369 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 2: a lot in the countryside, so we have the all 370 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 2: the the scenario for a higher demand and the freights 371 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 2: is going to respond on the higher rates as well, 372 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 2: considering compared to the last years Orgo. 373 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: I really want to thank you for your time. Enjoyed 374 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: learning more about the domestic freight markets in Brazil and 375 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: how it relates to the agg market. So thanks, thanks 376 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: so much for joining us today on talking transports. 377 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 2: Oh my pleasure and it's a pleasure to be here 378 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 2: to get know even person. I am a huge fan 379 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: of your work and again, if you want to know 380 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: more about Brazil, we are golfles goalflox dot com. So 381 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 2: nice to talk to you all right, thank you. So 382 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: I'm here at Bloomberg's Farm, Food and Fuel Summit in 383 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 2: Kansas City, Missouri, and with me today is. 384 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 4: Arthur Natal I'm one of the partners at all of 385 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 4: our shipping agency. 386 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: Okay, So what is Alpha mar shipping agency? 387 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 4: Okay, First of all, we're celebrating our twenty seven years 388 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 4: acting in Brazil as shipping agents, coort operators, custom brokers 389 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 4: and consultants. 390 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: What is a shipping agent? 391 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 4: As a shipping agent, our major role is to make 392 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 4: sure that the vessel has a smooth operation, either loading 393 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 4: or discharging. So we represent the ship owners, we represent charters, 394 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 4: We make sure that the vessel has all the clearances 395 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 4: necessary to come alongside, discharge or load the cargo, and 396 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 4: we make all the interactions with the authorities, which are 397 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 4: so many in Brazil. So it's very important to have 398 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 4: a shipping agency with local knowledge and with very good 399 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 4: networking with the authorities involved. 400 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 3: And so given you know. 401 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: What you guys do, you guys really have the pulse 402 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: on what's going on the Brazilian market as relates to dryball. 403 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: So could you talk about, you know, what's going on 404 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: in the grain and fertilizer markets and kind of talk about, 405 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, how that those commodities make their way out 406 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: to the ports and onto a ship. 407 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is a very good question. You know, we 408 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 4: have invested a lot in infrastructure, we have over one 409 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 4: hundred and twenty people just working in ten different offices 410 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 4: just to take make sure that we are in a 411 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 4: very good position to make take care of this demand. 412 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 4: In these ten offices, we're capable to handle about ninety 413 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 4: seven percent of all exports markets in Brazil. And when 414 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 4: you talk about Brazil, you have to understand that it's 415 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 4: not exactly a country, it's a continent, just like here 416 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 4: in the US. So you have different ways to ship 417 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 4: the cargo. We have different ways to originate the cargo. 418 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 4: And even the elevators are very different. We have elevators 419 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 4: from the Amazon region all the way to the south 420 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 4: that they have completely different demands. 421 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: So when you're talking about the grain markets or we're 422 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: talking about soybean and corn, is that those the two main. 423 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 4: The main the main commodity is being shipped exported out 424 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 4: of Brazil, definitely soybeans than corn, soybean meal. And now 425 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 4: we're still we're starting to have DDG because Brazil is 426 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 4: becoming a big producer of corn ethanol, so not only 427 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 4: consuming these these DDG internally for the for the cattle market, 428 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 4: but also becoming export to it. 429 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 3: So these DDG market is growing as well. 430 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: In ddg's just the byproduct of making ethanol. 431 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 5: Yes, that's correct, you can feed it to livestocks, exactly, 432 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 5: very good. And so I guess could you talk a 433 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 5: bit about like the different trading patterns that you've seen 434 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 5: over the last couple of years, you know, whether it 435 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 5: was the pandemic where whether it was you know, the 436 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 5: different trade flows related to us relationships with the rest 437 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 5: of the world. And then now you know what we're 438 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 5: seeing in the Middle East, can you talk about you know, 439 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 5: how trade has changed. 440 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 4: Brazil has always been supplying food to the world and 441 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 4: we are always adapting to the demands. Of course, our 442 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 4: main partner on it is China, but we also have 443 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 4: very good relationship with other countries, especially Europe. We also 444 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 4: we have a very good relationship with Middle East for corn, 445 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 4: for sugar. And with all these the situation that we're 446 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 4: facing now in the Middle East, I believe that the 447 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 4: biggest concern for the Brazilian market nowadays is how it's 448 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 4: going to be the corn exports in the second semester, 449 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 4: because Iran is a big buyer for our horn and 450 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 4: considering all the situations that we're facing now, we have 451 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 4: the uncertainty of that specific destination. 452 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: So where do you think the corn will be consumed, 453 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: will be consumed domestically or will you find other markets internationally? 454 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 3: We have two. 455 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 4: It's important to point out that Brazil has something very unique. 456 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 4: We're capable to have two harvests and some regions even three. 457 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 4: So that being said, we do have the summer crop 458 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 4: for corn and the winter crop for corn, which started 459 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 4: with a nickname called Safrinian little crop because it was 460 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 4: basically done just to protect the oil for the next 461 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 4: soybing crop. But right now, this little safrina, this little 462 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 4: crop has become something huge and very much focused for 463 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 4: the export market. I would say that something like that 464 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 4: many years ago would be way more dramatic, but considering 465 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 4: now the huge demand for the athenol, I believe the 466 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 4: domestic market could absorb a lot of this demand. But 467 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 4: of course I'm pretty sure that other destinations that we 468 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 4: are seeing now buying corn in the next in the 469 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 4: last years, can become more intense buyers from Brazil, like, 470 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 4: for example, the Central America. We're seeing many Central American 471 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 4: countries buying corn out of Brazil in the second semester. 472 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 4: These markets can grow, and not only that, but also 473 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 4: the North Africa, especially Egypt. Egypt is also a big 474 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 4: buyer of Brazil. So considering all this instability, and of 475 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 4: course the uncertainty is that we have out of Ukraine 476 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 4: as well well, they can also buy a lot of 477 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 4: these demand if something does happen out of Iran, but 478 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 4: it's too very early to discuss anything like that. 479 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: And you know, for fertilizer, do you guys import fertilizer, 480 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: are you exporter fertilizer? And if you're importing fertilizer, where's 481 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: that coming from. 482 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 4: Brazil has a lot of riches, but fertilizer is not 483 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 4: one of them. We really roughly eighty percent of all 484 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 4: the fertilizer for our crops from imports, and most of 485 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 4: that either comes from Russia, either comes from China or 486 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 4: Canada is also a big importer. And of course with 487 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 4: all these instability, especially these uncertainties in the Middle East, 488 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 4: they reflect in higher freight rates for the whole market, 489 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 4: and this of course will impact on the costs for 490 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 4: the fertilizers out of Brazil, and this is something that 491 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 4: our clients are monitoring. Just so you know, last year 492 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 4: we exported two roughly three thousand vessels from grains out 493 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 4: of Brazil, and this demand plus the domestic consumption of grains, 494 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 4: has generated roughly one thousand, eight hundred discharge calls for 495 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 4: fertilizer from all over the world. Russia and China were 496 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 4: the main ones, but now we are seeing that these 497 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 4: origins are also imposing our restrictions because considering all the 498 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 4: instability in the Middle East, they're trying to make sure 499 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 4: that they all they first have enough for their own crops. 500 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 4: So considering that plus the higher costs for fuel and 501 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 4: the higher costs for the freight, we might see a 502 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 4: big impact on the costs for the fertilizers for the 503 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 4: next Brazilian crop. 504 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: So in Brazil, what are the major exp ports where 505 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: most of the products are shipped out. 506 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 4: Definitely soybeans is the top one than maze. We also 507 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 4: have meal, but competing with soybeans, and even in some 508 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 4: terminals we also have sugar. Brazil is becoming a big 509 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 4: exporter of sugar. So this is also and it's very 510 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 4: important to say that most of these terminals, these bulk terminals, 511 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 4: they are very much focused on exporting these commodities. 512 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 3: And they. 513 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 4: It's not like will when we have for the fertilizer 514 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 4: that fertilizers. Usually these vessels they come to commercial key, 515 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 4: they have to dispute space and they with other commoloities, 516 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 4: other cargos which are not related to agribusiness, which generate 517 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 4: a bigger waiting time. But it's a very much synergetic relationship, 518 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 4: especially when China does not impose any relationship any restrictions 519 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 4: for Brazil and cargo. Because the Chinese market is our 520 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 4: main destination for our grains, especially soy means. And considering 521 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 4: that we have a big offer of vessels from China 522 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 4: available to return to Brazil, so fertilizer, especially ammonium so 523 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 4: faith has becoming a big back hole from China to Brazil. 524 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 4: So these vessels can be repositioned for loading grains. Again 525 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 4: and considering the high cost of yurea worldwide, ammonium so 526 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 4: faith has become a very feasible possibility for the Brazilian 527 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 4: producer and farmer. Even though there's a big difference on 528 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 4: the contents percentage between ammonium so faith and area, but 529 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 4: we see these growing a lot, and. 530 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: So these ships tend to go through the Panama Canal 531 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: that they go around the type of America. 532 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 4: Usually they go through the Cape of Good Hope because 533 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 4: the costs involved on the Panama Canal, plus there's st 534 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 4: a little waiting time, are prohibitive. There's a small percentage 535 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 4: of vessels that do pass on the Panama Canal. I 536 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 4: would say some Canadian Canadian imports of her liser they 537 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 4: do come through the Panama Canal. We do see some 538 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 4: ports from Central America when we are exporting rains, but 539 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 4: this is very much decided considering the current scenario on Panama. 540 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 4: It's not something steady the Panama Canal. It's always a 541 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 4: wild card when you're talking about the logistics out of Brazil. 542 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 4: The main route through Asia, it's our Pacific is always 543 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 4: the Cape of Good Hope because it's where you can 544 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 4: always have a steady route, even though it's a little longer, 545 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 4: but you can have you can have a cheaper option 546 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 4: also something that you can integrate with bunker the It's 547 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 4: very common for the for the ship owners to bring 548 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 4: the vessel they load in Brazil. They etn't either take 549 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 4: bunkers in South Africa or Singapore and then they reach 550 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 4: Asia again. So have you seen much of a change 551 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 4: in freight rates? Tribal freight rates since you know, war 552 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 4: broke out in the Middle East in late February. As 553 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 4: we are shipping agents, we don't operate free directly, but 554 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 4: we see many of our clients talking about a spike 555 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 4: on these costs and very much focused, very much related 556 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 4: to the insurance of the vessel plus the bunkers. But 557 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 4: you see the few situations worldwide is becoming more expensive 558 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 4: and that for the this is this is something that 559 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 4: affects the vessel as well. 560 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: And can you talk a little bit about like you know, 561 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 1: the major export terminals in Brazil, like where are they 562 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: located in Brazil? 563 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:13,919 Speaker 4: The major ones, everything started in Santos and Paranagua. That's 564 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 4: even how the Chicago Board of Trade when they consider 565 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 4: the price for grains out of Brazil, they considered the 566 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 4: Paranagua paper the export corridor and from there it has 567 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 4: expanded all over the country. We have over seventy five 568 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 4: berths available for loading loading rains and we are capable 569 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 4: to load over over eighteen million tons per month, and 570 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 4: even that considering many severe weather situations, especially in the 571 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 4: north of Brazil, because we basically have rain every single day, 572 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 4: and this of course takes a lot of toe on 573 00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:58,280 Speaker 4: the operation. 574 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: And you know what ships are typically used in these 575 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 1: grain trades between Brazil and China. 576 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 4: Before we had the standard Panamax, the usual contract would 577 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 4: be sixty thousand tones more or less than percent. But 578 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 4: considering that the Panamax is no longer the usual Panamax 579 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 4: is now a bigger vessel because of the new locks, 580 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 4: we're seeing now the contract is getting bigger. We're seeing 581 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 4: vessels loading about seventy five sometimes eight eighty thousand tones, 582 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,359 Speaker 4: and for that matter, we're calling them post Panamax, or 583 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 4: some people even call them cancer Max. A cancer Max 584 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 4: vessel is a vessel which is designed to load in 585 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 4: the port of cancer and and this has become a 586 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 4: very good reference for the Brazilian market. Why is that 587 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 4: Because it's a vessel which is wider and has a 588 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 4: smaller draft. It goes a little deeper, less deeper than 589 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 4: the other. So for that matter, you're capable to load 590 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 4: more and you can go in shallower areas, especially in 591 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 4: the Amazon region. Most of the ports in Brazil have 592 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 4: no problem with depth. We are more than capable to 593 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 4: attend the deeper ports in China for grains, but in 594 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 4: the Amazon region we do have a restriction in the 595 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,800 Speaker 4: entrance of the Amazon River because there is so much 596 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 4: sediments coming out of the river with that huge current 597 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 4: that is just impossible to dredge. So when you have 598 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,399 Speaker 4: a vessel that has ten centimeter less of draft and 599 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 4: it's six meters wider, you're capable to load more and 600 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,800 Speaker 4: it has become more efficient for that specific kind of trade. 601 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 4: So in Brazil nowadays we talk about the traditional pandemics 602 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 4: and we also talk about out cancer max vessels. 603 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: How far do these ships go up the Amazon. 604 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 4: Ah just so you know, from faz Engina, which is 605 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 4: the entrance of the Amazon River, all the Wayachata, which. 606 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 3: Is the. 607 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 4: Biggest facility that we have there, even though now we 608 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 4: have another one called novoh Mansu. But we're talking about 609 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 4: more than sixty hours navigation sex zero sixty six zero 610 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 4: hours of luggage with pilots because these, as I said, 611 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,720 Speaker 4: we're talking about a river that has a huge current, 612 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 4: so you need to have pilots assisting the crew. And 613 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 4: this is of course makes the cost of that of 614 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 4: that loading quite high, but at the same time it's 615 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 4: a very very efficient way to make sure that you're 616 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,320 Speaker 4: capable to use all the potential of that region and 617 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 4: in those facilities that load through Amazon River, Madieta River, 618 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 4: Tapa Joyce River, we load and receive cargo in a 619 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 4: very similar way that you guys do here in the 620 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 4: Mississippi River. We received the cargo through convoys with pushers 621 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,400 Speaker 4: and the usual convoy can can take up to forty 622 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 4: five to six thousand tones. So basically one convoy bring 623 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 4: the cargo enough for a vessel. 624 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: And so I guess what are your shipowners expecting over 625 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: the next six months as it relates to the demand 626 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 1: are they and rates? 627 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 3: Are they? 628 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: Are they expecting? You know, good markets? 629 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 2: Uh? 630 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: Is there a lot of uncertainty because of what's going 631 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: on in the Middle East? Like what's the what is 632 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: the I guess the pulls of the shipowner right right now, Lee. 633 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 4: I always say that Brazilian routes have been the safests 634 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 4: for ship owners for for many years because of all 635 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 4: the situation in the Red Sea, because of all the 636 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,720 Speaker 4: situation in Swiss, all the things that we had related 637 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 4: to piracy, and the routes that connect Brazil to Asia, 638 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 4: even though they're longer, they are very safe. But of 639 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,280 Speaker 4: course the whole market is being affected by the situation 640 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 4: on the few and it's been affected by the overall 641 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 4: pricing on the on the insurance. So considering that, I 642 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 4: would say that they are expecting to have a big demand, 643 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 4: but of course they are expecting to they will be 644 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 4: working with higher rates. These rates definitely are going to 645 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 4: be higher. 646 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: Now, you mentioned a bunch of end markets that you 647 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: guys look after, forwarding and being a ship agent. But 648 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: what's the biggest part of your business in your businessmen? 649 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 4: Definitely shipping agency. We attend over one thy two hundred 650 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,439 Speaker 4: vessels as ship agents every year and any given day 651 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 4: we're handling more than thirty thirty five vessels focused on 652 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 4: the export market of grains or the import market or fertilizer. 653 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 1: From a ship agent standpoint, what is the biggest resk 654 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: ship faces? 655 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,800 Speaker 3: I would definitely say it's. 656 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 4: The Brazilian bureaucracy, okay, because we need to deal with 657 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 4: so much paperwork, so much clearances. We need to make 658 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 4: sure that the vessel is compliant to all the demands 659 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 4: that all the authorities have. And it's very important to 660 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 4: say that even though it's just one country, I like 661 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 4: to say that every single part acts as a separate 662 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:57,839 Speaker 4: country because that specific office has a different interpretation of 663 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 4: the law that specific auditor sees things differently. So I 664 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,720 Speaker 4: would say that the red tape in Brazil is the 665 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,720 Speaker 4: is the main challenge. 666 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: You know in Europe and you know a lesser extent 667 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,240 Speaker 1: places in the US. A lot of ports are looking 668 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: to be you know, carbon neutral when it relates to emissions. 669 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,280 Speaker 1: Is that a huge priority down in Brazil. 670 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 4: I see now many portal torches making investments on it, 671 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 4: and myself, I'm a part on discussion groups on those things, 672 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 4: on those subjects, and I see that many portal torches 673 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,760 Speaker 4: are making investments to try to have availability of electricity 674 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 4: for the vessels when they are alongside, because when a 675 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 4: vessel is discharging or loading, she's too burning fuel in 676 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 4: most of the ports, and this would be a major, 677 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 4: a major change for CO two emission if all vessels 678 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 4: loading and discharging worldwide would be connect to electricity. But 679 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 4: of course the vessel needs to be compliant to this technology, 680 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:11,239 Speaker 4: and the part needs to have availability of enough voltage, 681 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 4: enough enough electricity to keep up with the demand. And 682 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 4: I would say this is the major goal not only 683 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 4: for Brazil but worldwide and the free forwarding business. 684 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 1: So you guys just focus on the drive ball. 685 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:32,320 Speaker 4: Yes uh, and that specific business is very much focused 686 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 4: on the on the red on the red tape. 687 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 1: Yes, we need to. 688 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 4: Brazil in the last five years has shifted from a 689 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 4: very analogical system and trying to become digital. And this 690 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 4: has become very apparent to even a system which is 691 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:57,359 Speaker 4: called paper less system. Right the idea is to make 692 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 4: all the transactions without paper, even though it does not happen, 693 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 4: but at least you see that the government is really 694 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 4: focusing on that. But it's not what happens on day 695 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 4: by day. But we are very much seeing that even 696 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 4: very important documents like certificate of origin phytosanitary. In some 697 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 4: ports you're capable to get digital versions and some other 698 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 4: ports you still need to wait for the paper version. 699 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 3: And imagine you're waiting for. 700 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,719 Speaker 4: Your documents to clear a cargo in the other on 701 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,799 Speaker 4: the other side of the world, and imagine you're not 702 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 4: capable to clear the cargo because you're waiting for a 703 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 4: certificate of a Brazilian orthorach. This is something that we 704 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 4: need to change, we need to improve, and it has 705 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 4: become a priority not only for the government but all 706 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 4: the associations involved on the export of brains, especially when 707 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,359 Speaker 4: it comes to the phyto sanitary and I would say 708 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 4: that it's something that we believe. I believe in a 709 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 4: few years it can become truly digital. 710 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: And can you talk a little bit about Alpha Mar. 711 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: You know the ownership. Are you guys a public company? 712 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: Are you privately held or your VC backdeback. 713 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 4: We are a private company, as I like to say, 714 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 4: we are a company owned by four guys. I'm one 715 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 4: of them, and this gives us agility to work in 716 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 4: a to work on the market, to prepare tailor made 717 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,720 Speaker 4: services for our clients. And nowadays we attend roughly twenty 718 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 4: five percent of all experts out of Brazil as agents, 719 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 4: so we have very good relationships with all trading houses 720 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 4: from many different countries. 721 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 1: And we're like looking forward in the next three to 722 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: five years, where's the growth coming from at your company? 723 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: At Alpha Mar, I. 724 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 4: Would say that considering all the main investments that have 725 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:57,280 Speaker 4: been done in the ethanol business, in the biodiesel industry 726 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 4: out of Brazil, there's going to be huge growth for 727 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 4: the exports of d d G, growth on the exports 728 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 4: of soybean meal and UH if the market does not 729 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 4: keep up with all the these demand for soil, soybean 730 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,479 Speaker 4: oil and the ethanol, we will be seeing a lot 731 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 4: of a lot of possibilities for tanker vessels as well, 732 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 4: So we are we're preparing ourselves to to work more 733 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,120 Speaker 4: on the tanker side as well. 734 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: Well. Good luck with those opportunities, you know, Arthur, Before 735 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 1: I let you go, could you just tell us, you know, 736 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: how did you get into transportation? Uh? Did you were 737 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 1: you born into it? Did you fall into it? 738 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 4: To be to be very honest, this is this is 739 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,720 Speaker 4: a little funny because I used to be an English teacher, okay, 740 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,440 Speaker 4: and then I became a sworn translator for the Navy. 741 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 4: I used to work on the on the formal inquiries 742 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 4: whenever there was an accident, and with that I started 743 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,799 Speaker 4: to talk with people related to the business. And then 744 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,800 Speaker 4: I had an opportunity to to become a boarding agent 745 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 4: and un shipping agents. And from there I started working 746 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 4: in the aluminum business and then grain business. And I've 747 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,480 Speaker 4: been working on the on the logistics site for over 748 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 4: twenty one years. 749 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: And where's your company based? 750 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,320 Speaker 4: Santos? 751 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: Very nice, well, Arthur, I really want to thank you 752 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: for your time and thank you very much. I enjoyed 753 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,799 Speaker 1: learning more about the Brazilian markets with you. 754 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:24,719 Speaker 3: Thank you. 755 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,879 Speaker 1: I also want to thank you for tuning in. If 756 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,280 Speaker 1: you liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. 757 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 1: We've lined up a number of great guests for the podcast, 758 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:39,279 Speaker 1: so please check back to hear conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators, 759 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight markets. Also, if you 760 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,399 Speaker 1: want to learn more about freight transportation markets, check out 761 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 1: our work on the Bloomberg Terminal at Bigo and of 762 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 1: course on social media. I'd also like to thank our producers, 763 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: Mariam Trore and Adidas Somani for helping to pull this 764 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,759 Speaker 1: podcast episode together. This is Leek signing off. Thanks for 765 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,279 Speaker 1: talking transports with me and talk to you next week.