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Speaker 1: What is catfishing? It's going online and communicating with someone,

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Speaker 1: someone whom you want to trick into believing you're somebody

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Speaker 1: different than who you really are. I typically see it

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Speaker 1: when men or women try to act younger and more handsome,

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Speaker 1: or beautiful or richer than they really are in order

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Speaker 1: to lure someone. But what happens when you finally are

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Speaker 1: going to meet the person then they find out who

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Speaker 1: you really are? Maybe catfishers You'll never think that far,

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Speaker 1: But I can tell you one thing. I believe I

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Speaker 1: know a catfisher who is also a killer. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's a grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven.

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Speaker 1: Catfisher cop, Yes he's a cop. Austin Edwards is connected

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Speaker 1: to a mass homicide in efforts to lure a teen

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Speaker 1: girl to go with him, and what live happily ever after?

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Speaker 1: What happens when she finds out you murdered her whole family?

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Speaker 1: The murderous catfish Virginia cop that tricked a teen girl

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Speaker 1: online before kidnapping her and killing her family. Here's the bombshell.

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Speaker 1: As if there could be anything to top that he

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Speaker 1: had been messaging underage girls for nearly a decade before

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Speaker 1: his murderous rampage now uncovered or messages between the murderous

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Speaker 1: catfishing cop Austin Lee Edwards and his now twenty one

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Speaker 1: year old victim, They've all been reviewed very carefully and

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Speaker 1: they show his perversion toward underage girls, and that it

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Speaker 1: began seven years at least, let me emphasize, at least

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Speaker 1: seven years before he was caught posing as a seventeen

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Speaker 1: year old boy on the Internet trying to catch a

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Speaker 1: teen girl. Now, this may bring to mind the case

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Speaker 1: of Liberty and Abigail Abbey, the two girls who were

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Speaker 1: murdered in Delphi, taken off a trestle bridge and murdered.

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Speaker 1: Catfishing came to the forefront of the news then because

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Speaker 1: cops were actually looking at a catfisher, a guy who,

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Speaker 1: as I recall, lived at home I could only say,

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Speaker 1: in the basement, But he had been posing as a

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Speaker 1: very very buff Justin Bieber lookalike in order to lure

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Speaker 1: young girls, trying to get them to send him naked photos. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is very similar to that, by the way, in

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Speaker 1: that case. So far, the catfisher has not been publicly

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Speaker 1: connected to the murders, somebody else, the local pharmacy tech

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Speaker 1: has been arrested. Back to Austin Lee Edwards, the catfishing cop.

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Speaker 1: Now what I don't get as how he could have

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Speaker 1: been doing this for so long and never ever was caught.

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Speaker 1: Now the victim has not been identified, but I know this.

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Speaker 1: She was just thirteen when the catfishing cop began messaging

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Speaker 1: her and trying to get nude photographs. Authorities have now

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Speaker 1: uncovered at least four thousand messages between the pair. Four

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Speaker 1: thousand messages. He says things like quote, did I tell

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Speaker 1: you I went trick or treating? I totally did and

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Speaker 1: I'm twenty me too. The girl wrote back, I'm thirteen.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's no doubt he knew she was under age.

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Speaker 1: After initially meeting on o'megel it's a chat app. The

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Speaker 1: two converse for at least two years. Messages now reveal

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Speaker 1: then twenty year old Edwards would also masturbate on Skype

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Speaker 1: calls with this little girl and ask her to undress.

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Speaker 1: She said what she chose not to do. He would

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Speaker 1: refer to the teen as his quote girlfriend sent her

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Speaker 1: naked photos of himself, threatened violence if she would not

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Speaker 1: do what he wanted her to do, The little Girl says, now,

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Speaker 1: that's when I realized he was not mentally stable. According

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Speaker 1: to the New York Post, now during several calls, Edward

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Speaker 1: would hold up a hatchet, in fact, the whole collection

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Speaker 1: of hatchets and knives to intimidate her. Now, as it

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Speaker 1: turns out, he actually used one of these hatchets and

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Speaker 1: a failed suicide attempt. We don't know how serious he

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Speaker 1: was about it, but he did fail. His father actually

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Speaker 1: told authorities his son had been drinking and dealing with quote,

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Speaker 1: girlfriend problems. You mean under age sex victim problems. That

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Speaker 1: is a problem, but not the one father seemed to recognize.

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Speaker 1: According to the Little Girl, Edwards also shared his evil thoughts,

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Speaker 1: often telling her she was the only person he had

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Speaker 1: in the whole wide world, and that he would kill

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Speaker 1: himself if she wouldn't communicate with him, even going to

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Speaker 1: so far just to say she was his only reason

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Speaker 1: for living. Now, that's a real way to get a girl.

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Speaker 1: Can threaten to kill yourself, Edwards, Now that's a way

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Speaker 1: to get a girl. Tell her she's the only reason

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Speaker 1: you're living. Run for the heels. If you hear that ladies.

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Speaker 1: Edwards even encouraged her to kill her own family. Messages

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Speaker 1: show that at one point he asked her to skype

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Speaker 1: and the girl said no, she couldn't because her mom

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Speaker 1: was home, and he responded, kill her and then went

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Speaker 1: on to say, I'm gonna give myself a black eye. Okay, oh,

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Speaker 1: this poor girl. After two years of this and many

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Speaker 1: attempts to break up, the then fifteen year old decided

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Speaker 1: to block Edwards. But get this. After she blocked him,

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Speaker 1: he continued to message her on different accounts, even though

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Speaker 1: she had never shared her real name with him. Then,

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Speaker 1: Edwards goes on to join the Virginia State Police. Hello,

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Speaker 1: did anybody give this guy a psychological evaluation? Now? A

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Speaker 1: prior mental health institutionalization should have stopped him from joining

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Speaker 1: the force. A year after graduating, Edwards began working at

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Speaker 1: the Washington County Sheriff's office. Now, let's get back to

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Speaker 1: the teen girl he abducted after murdering her family. How

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Speaker 1: that whole thing start? The details will make your heart sink.

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Speaker 1: This is the home where it happened. It's still a

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Speaker 1: crime scene, and the lady next door says she was

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Speaker 1: more like family than a next door neighbor. She had

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Speaker 1: actually just gotten the turkey out of the refrigerator and

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Speaker 1: walked outside for a second, saw the smoke and the

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Speaker 1: flames coming out of the front of the house. Mortified

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Speaker 1: and horrified, she called nine one. This son of a

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Speaker 1: he just has no clue what he took away from

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Speaker 1: this world. For more than twenty years, they were next

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Speaker 1: door neighbors and the best kind. Every neighborhood needs a

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Speaker 1: winning family, because they just were the all American love,

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Speaker 1: in caring, supporting family that you can ever ask for.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends at Fox eleven and what she

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Speaker 1: just said. Every lead I've got, every person that's been

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Speaker 1: spoken to, agrees it's the all American family, the kind

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Speaker 1: on the front of the Hallmark card, scrubbed and sunshine.

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Speaker 1: So why are they all dead in their homes? And

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Speaker 1: to go another step, the home is set on fire.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of reasons that a home can be

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Speaker 1: set on fire. To Daryl Cohen joining me, high profile

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Speaker 1: lawyer in the Atlanta jurisdiction, former felony prosecutor and one

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Speaker 1: of the biggest murder capitals in the country. Now private lawyer,

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, you and I have dealt with a lot

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Speaker 1: of homicides. Many I don't know how many homicides I

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Speaker 1: either investigated as we would do before we would ever

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Speaker 1: dream of entering and guilty plea to trial, much less covered.

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Speaker 1: But when you see a murder and the scene is

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Speaker 1: set on fire, that tells me something that this perp

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Speaker 1: is different from every other killer. When you find out

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen that the purpose set the home on fire

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Speaker 1: in a lovely residential area, what does that tell you

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Speaker 1: before you even open the case file. Two words nancy

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Speaker 1: cover up, Cover it up, hope that the fire and

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Speaker 1: the ashes take all of the evidence and put it

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Speaker 1: away where it's not going to be seen by law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: by arson investigators exactly. So you know immediately when somebody

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Speaker 1: sets the murder scene on fire, they're also staging. Anything

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Speaker 1: a person does to the scene postmortem is staging, and

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Speaker 1: it gives us a window into who the perp might be.

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Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. Typically, when you kill somebody,

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Speaker 1: you want to get out of there. You don't want

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Speaker 1: to be near the dead body. You don't want to

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Speaker 1: be the scene, near the scene, you don't want to

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Speaker 1: be seen, you don't want to leave your fingerprints. But

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Speaker 1: some perps stay to stage the scene crime stories With

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, My whole point is if he had been

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Speaker 1: handled correctly the first time and imprisoned for sexting a

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Speaker 1: little thirteen year old girl, he was an adult at

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Speaker 1: the time, he would never have had the chance to

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Speaker 1: go on this cross country rampage. The former little girl

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Speaker 1: says she was not quote surprised at all Edwards had

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Speaker 1: unleashed violence on the girl. She says she knew how

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Speaker 1: scary he really was. The little girl, now a woman, says,

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Speaker 1: it's just crazy he was able to become a cop

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Speaker 1: and everyone knowing with me, knowing he had so many

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Speaker 1: mental health issues. I agree with her. How in the

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Speaker 1: hay did he get past all those evaluations that to

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Speaker 1: a teen girl whose family was murdered. If it had

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Speaker 1: not been for a eagle eyed neighbor spotting a red

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Speaker 1: Kia soul, that little girl could be dead today. Take

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Speaker 1: a little of our friends at NBC four LA. Nobody

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Speaker 1: could imagine this crime happening to my family, to our family,

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Speaker 1: But the unthinkable did happen to Michelle Blanden's family. Her

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Speaker 1: father Mark Winnock, mother Sherry, and younger sister Brooke. The

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Speaker 1: last time she saw them was on Thanksgiving. One day later, Mark, Sherry,

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Speaker 1: and Brooke were found dead inside the Riverside home on

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Speaker 1: Price Court that Michelle grew up in. She was at

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Speaker 1: a store when a longtime friend and neighbor urgently called

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Speaker 1: her in a panic. She called to tell us that

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Speaker 1: we needed to get there as soon as we could

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Speaker 1: because my parents house was on fire. Riverside police inside

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Speaker 1: Her father, mother, and younger sister had been murdered. Oh

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Speaker 1: so this girl gets a call to rush home that

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Speaker 1: the home is on fire. I've spoken to a lot

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Speaker 1: of arson victims, and there's something about the burning of

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Speaker 1: your home. Thank Heaven, I have not experienced that. I

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Speaker 1: hope I never do. But there's some feeling that goes

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Speaker 1: through the victim's hearts and minds and soul when they

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Speaker 1: see everything they own the world and all their memories

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Speaker 1: just going up in flames. Little does this girl know

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Speaker 1: that when she gets back, it's not just the home

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Speaker 1: that she has lost. She has lost her family as well.

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Speaker 1: So why burn the place up to eradicate the evidence?

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Speaker 1: So why is it so important to get rid of

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Speaker 1: the dead bodies? What do we know about the victims.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about this family? Is there something

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Speaker 1: nefarious going on with them? Is there something that neighbors

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Speaker 1: of twenty years somehow missed? Well, take a listen to this.

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Speaker 1: My sister Brooke was a loving single mom who did

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Speaker 1: her best to raise her two teenage daughters in a

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Speaker 1: loving way. My dad, Mark, the silly old man that

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Speaker 1: I referenced him, always referenced him to be, was a

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Speaker 1: soft spoken and humble man who would go out of

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Speaker 1: his way to help a friend or stranger in need.

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Speaker 1: My mom, Sherry, the matriarch of our family, with the

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Speaker 1: biggest giving heart imaginable, did anything and everything for everyone.

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Speaker 1: So you've got the daughter spitting out about each one

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Speaker 1: of her family members. There's nothing to say, you know.

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Speaker 1: In our line of business, we always think that there's

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Speaker 1: another side to the story. How could this seemingly normal

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Speaker 1: family be the target of a mass killing? What are

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Speaker 1: we missing? Let me go straight out with special guests

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Speaker 1: winning us Kristin Kwan to BC y B joining us

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Speaker 1: from Bristol. Kristen question, what do we know about the

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Speaker 1: area where the fire occurred and the murders. It's my

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Speaker 1: understanding that it's a beautiful residential area. Yes, so it

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Speaker 1: happened in Liverside blockhere, a south neighborhood, just after eleven am. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's described as a very very beautiful area in a

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Speaker 1: nice neighborhood. Kristin Kwan joining me WC Y B Bristol.

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Speaker 1: I heard her say something very interesting to me, Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 1: you prosecuted a lot of inner city crimes. I learned

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Speaker 1: after my first jury trial to try to find witnesses

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Speaker 1: after three pm because all the dopers and all the

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Speaker 1: nary dwells, all the bad guys typically are up all

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Speaker 1: night and then they sleep. So if I need to

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Speaker 1: find a no good witness, don't even try till after

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Speaker 1: three o'clock. On the other hand, if I want to

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Speaker 1: go find the lady school bus driver or a mom

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Speaker 1: that may have witnessed something in the neighborhood, you can

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Speaker 1: go anytime from seven am on. But if you want

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Speaker 1: to get a bad guy, they're like vampires. They are

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Speaker 1: up all night and they sleep all day. My point

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Speaker 1: is eleven am triple murder and arson that is a

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Speaker 1: little out of the stereotypical pattern of crime, very different

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Speaker 1: and see than the normal crime, very unusual during the

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Speaker 1: middle of the morning or late morning. Too many people

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Speaker 1: can see it too, meet people or driving by haphazardly.

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Speaker 1: It's highly unusual and highly unlikely it would happen. Sadly

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Speaker 1: it did, and it was tenas okay you did say eleven,

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Speaker 1: am right? Christ and kawen, Yeah, okay am. And you

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Speaker 1: know what, when I would prepare cases, I'd try to

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Speaker 1: find out if there were similar transactions, if this perp

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Speaker 1: had done anything like that in the past, so I

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Speaker 1: could use it to prove scheme of course of conduct,

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Speaker 1: to frame of mind of the case in chief. Very

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Speaker 1: often I would find crimes were committed at about the

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Speaker 1: same time of the day. Like I was telling him

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Speaker 1: about BTK. He would strike while the man at the

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Speaker 1: house Wasn't there same thing with the Golden State Killer,

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Speaker 1: remember that Jackie joseph'angelo. He would watch a woman's home

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Speaker 1: and wait till the man was gone. In fact, one

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Speaker 1: of his victims says she had just heard her husband.

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Speaker 1: She was in bed with her two or three year

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Speaker 1: old boy, and she just heard the husband leave, shut

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Speaker 1: the door, car crank up, leave and as she thought,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, he's coming back in. He must have

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Speaker 1: forgotten something. But it was the Golden State killer watching

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Speaker 1: the house. All of his crimes same time of day,

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Speaker 1: eleven am. Does not fit a triple homicide arson pattern.

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Speaker 1: But as Daryl Cohen said, that's how it happened. But

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Speaker 1: let's just wait a minute. Dave Matt Crime online dot

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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, Riverside, California has many, many facets to it.

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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about Riverside? Riverside is about

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Speaker 1: an hour and a half west southwest of Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: so it's an area that is very middle class. It's

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Speaker 1: got a lot of neighborhoods, you know, just as we

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Speaker 1: see with this particular one. There's nothing extraordinary about Riverside

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Speaker 1: and not knocking it. It's just another typical southern California community.

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Speaker 1: But wait a minute. Three dead bodies in the home.

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Speaker 1: That would be the single mom of two teen girls,

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Speaker 1: the grandparents, her parents, but there's someone missing. Where's the girl?

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at tayl nine. He

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Speaker 1: knew what he was doing, He knew what he was

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Speaker 1: doing exactly, but thank goodness, he made a lot of mistakes.

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Speaker 1: Parking in the driveway, having somebody see him. A neighbor

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Speaker 1: took this photo out of her window of the suspect's

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Speaker 1: red corner driveway, thinking it might have been stolen and

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Speaker 1: dumped here. It was ten thirty in the morning last Friday,

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Speaker 1: minutes before the Winno's home started burning. The neighbor, who

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Speaker 1: asked not to be named, told me that she saw

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Speaker 1: dressed in a black trench coat and face mask walking

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Speaker 1: with the fifteen year old who lives in the house.

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Speaker 1: They were getting into the red car. She was trying

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Speaker 1: to mount the words to me, but nothing came out.

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Speaker 1: The neighbor said. I looked down and saw she was barefoot.

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Speaker 1: She was crying a little bit. She didn't try to

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Speaker 1: make a run for it. There's a girl, the fifteen

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Speaker 1: year old teen girl. I will never understand it. How

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Speaker 1: did this guy now known as the Catfish Cop managed

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Speaker 1: to disguise himself as law enforcement, passed all the tests

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Speaker 1: and actually make the force, only to cross the country

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Speaker 1: to kidnap a little teen girl and murder her family.

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Speaker 1: Austin Edwards he had been messaging underage girls for nearly

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Speaker 1: a decade before his murderous rampage. If it had not

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Speaker 1: been for an eagle eyed neighbor spotting a red Kia soul,

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Speaker 1: that little girl could be dead today. Straight out to

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Speaker 1: Kristin Kwanda cyb Bristol Kristen, what exactly did the neighbors see?

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Speaker 1: So the neighbors saw him, saw a man with a

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Speaker 1: trench polon and he had the scroll holding her hand,

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Speaker 1: and she appeared really really distressed. And that was the

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Speaker 1: reason that she called nine to one. She called police. Now,

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Speaker 1: interesting days mac, the same woman had noticed a red

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Speaker 1: vehicle and even took a picture of it. What do

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Speaker 1: you know about that? What happened with that day? Well,

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Speaker 1: that actually is what got her really. Thank God for

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Speaker 1: a neighbor that's paying attention, okay, because without her, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: we don't have the answers to this story. Without her,

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Speaker 1: we don't know who let the house, We don't know anything.

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Speaker 1: Actually without this neighbor, and not directly next door, a

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Speaker 1: little a couple of houses away, she sees this red

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Speaker 1: car and she mentioned she thought maybe somebody had stole

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Speaker 1: it and they just dumped it right there in that driveway.

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Speaker 1: That's why she took the picture. That was her thought.

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Speaker 1: But she paid close enough attention so that they could

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Speaker 1: get the picture of the car. They had a license plate,

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Speaker 1: they had all the information they needed because it didn't

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Speaker 1: belong there. When she sees bill girl, Okay, the girl

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Speaker 1: was barefoot and she the woman could tell they didn't

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Speaker 1: looked like she had been crying. So while she says

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Speaker 1: that she didn't make a run for it, well there

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Speaker 1: was enough other you know, the way she was acting

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Speaker 1: that the woman knew this is not right. There is

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Speaker 1: something wrong. So red card should not be parked in

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Speaker 1: my driveway. A girl shouldn't be barefoot walking with another

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Speaker 1: man where she looks like she's franking. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: amazing to me joining me Scott Johnson, forensic Psychologists, joining

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Speaker 1: us out of Minnesota, thirty two years in the business,

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Speaker 1: author of When I Love You turns Violent and physical

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Speaker 1: abusers and sex offenders. You can find them at Forensic

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Speaker 1: Consultation dot org. Scott Johnson. Isn't it the human mind? Amazing?

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Speaker 1: And that is why I always wanted to question witnesses myself,

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Speaker 1: of course before you put them on the stand, but

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Speaker 1: in depth in a casual setting like in their home

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Speaker 1: or their comfy or their apartment, and go through the

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Speaker 1: story very slowly, and you ask questions that they really

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Speaker 1: be irrelevant, like what exactly did you see what were

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Speaker 1: they wearing? Did you see their face? What was their demeanor?

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Speaker 1: Did they have anything in their hands? Did you see

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Speaker 1: a car nearby? Was anybody else around? Just a million questions.

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Speaker 1: And this woman remembers the teen girl was barefoot and

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Speaker 1: it struck her as odd. Isn't that amazing that she

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Speaker 1: sees a man and a girl walking out of the

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Speaker 1: house and that one thing struck her as odd? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And it's the thing that sensory wise or brain picked

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Speaker 1: up on that it just didn't look right. The man's

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Speaker 1: dress the way he is, the girl's looking scared, and

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Speaker 1: she has no shoes on, and so those things kind

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Speaker 1: of get tattooed in the brain and think God that

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Speaker 1: they didn't notice these things. So for right now, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I've got his red car to go on. That's not

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Speaker 1: helping us a lot to Doctor Tim Gallagher, joining US

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Speaker 1: Medical Examiner for the entire state of Florida. You can

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Speaker 1: find him at pathcaremad dot com. Lecturer University Florida Medical

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Speaker 1: School and founder of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference.

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Speaker 1: I would be in hog heaven at that conference, doctor Gallagher.

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Speaker 1: It's a misconception that you can burn bodies to the

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Speaker 1: extent there will be no evidence left. Explain, all right,

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Speaker 1: that's a common misnoma. Actually sometimes burning the body you

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Speaker 1: would actually create more evidence. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: we need to know in the cases of victims who

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Speaker 1: are in fires is were they killed before the fire

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Speaker 1: was set or did they die as a result of

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Speaker 1: the fire. And by then we can establish a timeline,

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Speaker 1: you know, for certain acts that the suspect may have committed.

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Speaker 1: You know what you're making me think of? Rest off

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Speaker 1: the top of my head. The Teresa Hallbock case. She

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Speaker 1: a twenty something amateur photographer. She was taking photos for

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Speaker 1: the Penny Pincher type. It was auto Trader. That was

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Speaker 1: you know those free little newspapers you get when you

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Speaker 1: go into the grocery store. They're right there at the doors,

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Speaker 1: like Penny Pincher Auto Trader. She went to the home.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna remember this making a murderer on one of

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Speaker 1: the streaming was the HBO or Netflix, Thank you, trying

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Speaker 1: to pretend that Stephen Avery was innocent. Well, let me

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Speaker 1: tell you. Her teeth and the studs off the back

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Speaker 1: of her daisy flintest blue jeans were found in a

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Speaker 1: fire pit in his backyard. Anyway, by burning her in

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Speaker 1: the fire pit, he thought he got rid of all

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Speaker 1: the evidence. But the teeth state, what's different about the

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Speaker 1: teeth and the bones? Doctor Gallagher, Well, the teeth and

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Speaker 1: bones are created mostly by calcium, and calcium is not flammable,

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Speaker 1: so everything around it would be in center, leaving the

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Speaker 1: calcium behind. So teeth, bones, and a lot of the

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Speaker 1: even if the person had a medical device within them,

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Speaker 1: for instance a pacemaker or a breast implant or some

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Speaker 1: kind of other medical device, that would stay behind with

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Speaker 1: the serial number on it, and then we can use

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Speaker 1: that serial number to identify whose remains those are? Wow

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Speaker 1: a question When you go to a dinner or a

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Speaker 1: party or something like that, the people ask you medical

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Speaker 1: examiner questions about why in the bones burn and the

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Speaker 1: teeth remain, or questions like that, or can identify the

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Speaker 1: victim by the serial number on her breast implant? Do

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Speaker 1: they ask you things like that or do you just

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Speaker 1: chat about politics and whether just curious? No, they do

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Speaker 1: ask me things like that. They have to kind of

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Speaker 1: make myself aware that are they asking me like how

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Speaker 1: to get away with the perfect crime? Or you know,

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Speaker 1: so I just kind of have to taper my answer

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Speaker 1: a little bit. I don't want to be an encyclopedia

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Speaker 1: for someone trying to get away with something elicit. Well,

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Speaker 1: I assure you that's not why I'm asking. It also

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Speaker 1: brings to mind Josh Powell. May he rot in hell

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Speaker 1: with Satan forever. Josh Powell first kills his wife, Susan Powell,

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Speaker 1: not prosecuted. Then he gets visitation with his two boys.

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Speaker 1: Imagine that they go over to his home. He chops

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Speaker 1: them with an axe in the neck, and then sets

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Speaker 1: the whole house on fire. Another instance of trying to

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Speaker 1: burn away the emmis Well, let me query you with

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Speaker 1: another question. One the three dead bodies and a missing

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Speaker 1: girl have to do with the sale of a home

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Speaker 1: all the way across the country from Riversy, California and Virginia.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to Ashley Hope, wc y ME. According

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Speaker 1: to Smith County, Virginia records, Edwards also recently purchased a

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Speaker 1: home in Saltville from Jacob Gordon. I had the house

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Speaker 1: on the market for just a few hours, and you know,

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00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: I got a full price offer, and you know I

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Speaker 1: was told it was a Virginia State trooper and we

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Speaker 1: went from there. Add for the property on Alison Gap

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Speaker 1: Road was recorded on November fourteenth. He was only behind

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Speaker 1: me for about eight days. You know, he was actually

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Speaker 1: very nice accommodating. He offered to help me on my home.

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Speaker 1: After purchasing the home, it appears he blacked out windows

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Speaker 1: and put up dark curtains. Title was really weird. And

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Speaker 1: then of course the owner told me also that he

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Speaker 1: required that they sent the video of the basement. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he didn't see the property before he purchased it, but

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Speaker 1: he required a video of the basement, which seemed really

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Speaker 1: weird to us. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's a grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one

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Speaker 1: eleven Catfisher Cop. Yes he's a cop. Austin Edwards. Here's

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Speaker 1: the bombshell. As if there could be anything to top

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Speaker 1: that he had been messaging underage girls for nearly a

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Speaker 1: decade before his murderous rampage. Crime online dot COM's Jackie

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Speaker 1: Howard joining Jackie, what can you tell us? Here's another

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Speaker 1: bombshell for you, Nancy. Besides the home that Austin Lee

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Speaker 1: Edwards bought where he blacked out the windows. He also

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Speaker 1: had a Richmond Area apartment. Now we know that apartment

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Speaker 1: was never searched. A judge approved edwards eviction from that

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00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: apartment just this week. Now that that eviction is official,

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Speaker 1: any evidence that might exist inside that apartment could be

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Speaker 1: removed if it's not been already and destroy. That means

428
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: any other evidence related to more victims harassed online by

429
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: Edwards will be lost. The Riverside Police Department, which led

430
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: the investigation into the murders, did not see a need

431
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: to search the apartment. According to a spokesman, it was

432
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: not needed in relation to their investigations. Also, the Chesterfield

433
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: County Police Department and Sheriff's Office did not search edwards

434
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: Richmond Area apartment either. According to the Los Angeles Times,

435
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: there may still be some of edwards belongings in the apartment.

436
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: The reason for the eviction was that Edwards had fallen

437
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: behind on his rent and his landlord moved to a victim.

438
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 1: Court record show according to the Los Angeles Times, that

439
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: he owed eight hundred four dollars for his November rent,

440
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: eighty dollars and forty cents in late fees sixty one

441
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: dollars for court costs, one hundred and fifty dollars attorney fee,

442
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: and ninety dollars in damages for utilities and trash. There's

443
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: no word on whether investigators will seek a search warrant

444
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: for what remains the entire family wiped out, a teen

445
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: girl left without a home, or a family now orphaned

446
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: because of the cat fishing cop with a perversion for

447
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: young girls online. Joining me right now. Special guest Titania Jordan,

448
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: chief parenting and marketing officer at Bark Technology. I've got Bark.

449
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: I'm not a pay spokesperson, not getting a dime out

450
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: of it, but I've got it on my phone to

451
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: my husband. She's the author of Parenting in a Tech World. Tatania,

452
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: what is cat fishing? It's a coal for term for

453
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: an activity that's been around as long as there's been

454
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: an Internet, namely pretending to be somebody else online. And

455
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: it's gut wrenching to hear the story and even more

456
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: gut wrenching to know that at Bark we're sending alerts

457
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: daily around predatory behavior, risky contact, sextortion. In many cases

458
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: we have to notify major entities like Nick Mick, the

459
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. What exactly is it?

460
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: What exactly is cat fishing? Yes, it's the act of

461
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: creating a false identity and then interacting with somebody for

462
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: a specific purpose, usually to lure them into some sort

463
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: of relationship. It can include mild flirting all the way

464
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: to years long partnerships. And the catch is that these

465
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: people have never and will never meet them in real

466
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: life except for in rare, unfortunate circumstances like the one

467
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: we're talking about today. It happens so often. I've got

468
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: twenty pages of similar transactions right in front of me.

469
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: And we saw it most recently and the Delphi double

470
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: murder of libby an abbey, where a catfisher, a pudgy

471
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: guy that lived in his mom's basement, was using a

472
00:31:54,560 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber lookalike photo to lure young girls, including an abbey,

473
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: meet up with them, get naked photos of them. Turns

474
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: out his cat fishing seemingly has nothing to do with

475
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: their murders, but it was a monkey rich thrown in

476
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: the entire double home Aside investigation. Cat fishing It's happening

477
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: all the time, and Tatonia Jordan just told you what

478
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: it is, but what does it have to do with

479
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: this chase. Virginia State Police tell us the suspected shooter

480
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: served as a trooper right here in Metcha Richmond for

481
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: about ten months before he resigned in October, and then

482
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: he got a job in the Washington County Sheriff's office.

483
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: They tell me they hired him on November sixteenth, just

484
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: ten days before this triple murder. Austin Edwards visiting more

485
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: than CBS six covered edwards graduation from the Virginia State

486
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: Police Academy back in January. A spokesperson says he was

487
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: hired and entered into the academy in July twenty twenty

488
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: one and was assigned to cover hin Rico County when

489
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: he graduated. And guys, you were just hearing our friends

490
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: at wtv R, now take a listen to Tony Shin.

491
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: Investigators say this is the man who took their lives.

492
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: Twenty eight year old Austin Lee Edwards, a law enforcement

493
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: officer from Virginia who police used a fake Internet profile

494
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: to appear to be a seventeen year old boy so

495
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: he could have an online relationship with Brooks fifteen year

496
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: old daughter. It's a method of internet deception called catfishing.

497
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: He took an oath to protect, and yet he failed

498
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: to do so. Instead, he preyed on the most vulnerable.

499
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: Investigators say after killing the Winneck family, Edwards set the

500
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: home on fire and took the teenage girl with him

501
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: to Darni and Jordan, joining us chief parenting officer at

502
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: Bark Technology. Once the catfisher starts talking to the girl,

503
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: the girl, the young girl thanks, he's sixteen, seventeen years old.

504
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: He then be friends are enough online to get valuable

505
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: information like phone number and home address. Of course, sometimes

506
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: people post photo that have their home address in the background,

507
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: like they're in their front yard and you can see

508
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: maybe their car or their home. Why is it important

509
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: to never give out your home address or where you work,

510
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: or any personal information like that to somebody you don't know?

511
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you outlined it clearly, but for everybody that

512
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: it's only been half listening, and you are listening right now,

513
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: pay attention. Pay attention to this. Your children need to

514
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: know that the people they're talking to online aren't necessarily

515
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: who they say they are. They can be tricky people.

516
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: These are adults who are highly skilled in one thing,

517
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: and that is tricking them. And they can be the smartest,

518
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: most loved, brilliant children in the planet and they can

519
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: still get tricked. Your children need to feel comfortable telling

520
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: you about who they talk to online without ramification of

521
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: doing so. You need to stay calm and they need

522
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: to know that this is out there and that you

523
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: are the safe place. So you do take the rich

524
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: a stocky. This is your belly wick. How do you

525
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: tell your children scaring them? What is catfishing? I mean

526
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: I just say to my son, who are you playing with?

527
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 1: And he says so, and so I'm like, who else?

528
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: You know? Some other kid? I'm like, how do you know?

529
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: It's not like a sixty five year old yah in

530
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: his underwear in New Jersey and you're playing with him online.

531
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: Don't give him your location or your real name. How

532
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: do you tell them without scaring them? Detectives? So I

533
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: teach about one hundred thousand kids a year and we

534
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: talk about this in depth. I give them a sure

535
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 1: way how you could never be catfish. So we talk

536
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: about five factors of authentication. If you can't tell me

537
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: their first name, their last name, their phone number, where

538
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: they go to school, and where they live based on

539
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: what you know to be true physically. Everyone else online

540
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: is a liar. So then I asked the kids, how

541
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: many webcams do you have at your disposal? They'll have

542
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: a webcam on their Chromebook, their iPad, their desktop, their tablet,

543
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: and their phone. So if you are talking to someone

544
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 1: that you really have not verified who they are, and

545
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: they're asking for personal information with parent guardian permission, tell them, hey,

546
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: let's go to webcam. I just want to make sure

547
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: you're not catfishing me and I wanted to make sure

548
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: you are who you say you are. Well, I tell Detective,

549
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: I tell the children it's usually my son. He can't

550
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: play with anybody own line that he doesn't know in

551
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: real life he's never met, and I think it's working.

552
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: So that leads me to detective where's the girl? The

553
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: last we heard of her, she's being taken out of

554
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 1: the house by the guy wearing a trench coat and

555
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: she's barefoot. The search is on for a red car.

556
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Rick Chambers KTLA. He murdered the

557
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: girl's mother, Brooke, and the girl's grandparents, Mark and Cherry Winnock,

558
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: and then set the fire as he dragged the struggling

559
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: team to his car. Neighbors noticed that commotion and called police,

560
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: but by the time they arrived, the home was burning

561
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: and Edward was already driving back east. But about two

562
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: hours after the murders, police spotted edwards red car on

563
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: Highway two forty seven. SWAT units were called in and

564
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,959
Speaker 1: a pursuit began along Route sixty two in Kelso, though

565
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: Edwards began shooting at the SWAT vehicle. Okay, so this

566
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: guy not only has taken the girl martyr her entire family,

567
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: but now he's shooting at cops. Take a list of

568
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 1: Fox eleven parked in another neighbor's driveway. They left that woman,

569
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: who described the girl as in distress and gave police's

570
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: license plate. Officers tracked them down halfway to Vegas and

571
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: say during the pursuit, Edwards lost control while shooting at

572
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: police and their chopper. The girl managed to escape to safety,

573
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: and police returned fire. Edwards had worked for two law

574
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: enforcement departments in Virginia, with no priors or marks against

575
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 1: his name. The teenage girl is in the color guard

576
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: at Arlington High School. She's currently in protective custody. So

577
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: this guy has a gun and is brazen enough to

578
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: shoot at cops. To Scott Johnson, that tells me he's

579
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 1: willing to kill again, even shooting at cops. He's already

580
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,919
Speaker 1: killed three people in order to get this girl back

581
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: to his lair in Virginia with the blacked out windows

582
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: and the heavy curtains. He's willing to kill to have

583
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: sex with a fifteen year old girl, right, And you

584
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 1: know this psychopathic traits, you know, the minimal if any

585
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: anxiety or fear. You know, they really just don't care

586
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: about tomorrow. They care about today, and so you know,

587
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: to take the risk of being shot and killed it

588
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,959
Speaker 1: it didn't matter to him, and he just didn't care.

589
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: It was about the power that control, the fantasy of

590
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: having this victim back in isolation in Virginia and the

591
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: rest just didn't matter to him. To detected Rich with

592
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: Stocky joining us, and this is a guy that's law enforcement.

593
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: He's been in a jail before. You know, the first

594
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: time I ever went in full to county jail. When

595
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: I walked out into the parking lot and it was

596
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: a very bleak asphalt parking lot, it was the most

597
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: beautiful thing I've ever seen. Just to get out of

598
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: that jail. This guy knows the consequences. Was Dockey, absolutely so.

599
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: I've arrested over three hundred of these internet predators, and

600
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: it's butcher, Baker, camelstick maker. It could be firefighters, police attorneys, doctors.

601
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: It is always a secret life that nobody knows about.

602
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: And until we hit that door with a search warrant

603
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: than the cats out of the bag, or in this case,

604
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: when he goes so far and does these unbelievable horrible acts,

605
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: now he knows he's found out. I mean Tatonia Jordan

606
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: joining us from Bark. You can find her at bark

607
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: dot us. Titania children and I think their parents have

608
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 1: no idea what the children are up against. The level

609
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: of deceit, the level of cunning, the brazen character of

610
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: these online predators. This guy has already killed three that

611
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: we know of, and willing to kill cops to get

612
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: this girl alone in that blacked out basement. It's disgusting,

613
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: it's angering, you know. The Cattie knowingly uses flattery and

614
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: emotional manipulation as an adult against children to kick start

615
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 1: a connection and then nurtures it steadily. It can happen

616
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: to any one of us. You know, Detective rich Wistock.

617
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: He says so many times, not my kid, not my kid.

618
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: It absolutely can be your kid. It could be my kid.

619
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen is joining me, former felony prosecutor now civil attorney. Daryl.

620
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: You and I spent way too much time in the

621
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: Fulton County jail. Once you've been in that place, you

622
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: never you never want to go to jail ever. But

623
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: this guy is so driven by his demons. He'll do

624
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: anything to get this girl Nancy. Once you've spent one

625
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: minute in the Fulton County jail, that's one minute too long.

626
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: It is horrible, and it is indicative of so many

627
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: jails this guy. Yes he is praised, Yes he is evil,

628
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 1: Yes he is wrong, and it's hard to look into

629
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 1: his mind. Christ and Kuan Wcyb joining us from Bristol, Kristen.

630
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: Where is the girl now? The girl now is in protected,

631
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: she'd be able to get away. I pray that she

632
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: doesn't go to a foster home, that she goes to

633
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: live with family. And now she is dealing with not

634
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: only being in the car with a guy trying to

635
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 1: rape her, but the murtyr of her mother and her

636
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: grandparents and her home up in flames because of this guy,

637
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: this Catfisher. Well, you may be happy to know that

638
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: when he opened fire on the cops, they shot him dead.

639
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 1: But this girl has a lifetime sentence of pain. Nancy

640
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Speaker 1: Grace Crumbs story, signing off Goodbye friend,