1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome back to the Carol mark Wood Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: There's an article that seems to be written every few 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: weeks now, and the latest is titled American women are 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: giving up on marriage and was in Saturday's Wall Street Journal. 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: I'm not criticizing the genre. I obviously talk about this 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: topic maybe more than any other, and I appreciate that 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: these pieces are sounding the alarm. Just kind of think 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: they're not quite getting it right. Here's a quote from 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: the article. I'm financially self sufficient enough to do these 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: things by myself, said a woman they interviewed, a Boston 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: based accountant. I'm willing to accept being single versus settling 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: for someone who isn't the right fit. She sees her 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: plans for an independent future as making the best of 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: a lousy situation. I don't want to sit here and 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: say I'm one hundred percent happy, but I feel happier 16 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: just accepting my reality. I'm mentally and emotionally a sense 17 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: of peace. She's only twenty nine. She's twenty nine, and 18 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: she's given up on finding her person. It's just depressing. 19 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. At twenty nine, I was in 20 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: a six year relationship with someone who I did not marry. 21 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: I was certain, I mean one thousand percent sure, that 22 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: I didn't want to get married and I didn't want 23 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: to have kids. I started dating my husband the following 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: year when I was thirty, and we got married the 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: year after that. It changes so quickly. Why does a 26 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: twenty nine year old feel so despondent about her future? 27 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: The problem is the dating culture. If you talk to 28 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: anyone in it, well you feel extra grateful to not 29 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: be in it. But they use this language that's just 30 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: become ridiculous. Like I get what a situationship is, but 31 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: giving it a name as opposed to just like someone 32 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: you're hooking up with, makes it sound so much more 33 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: important than it is. As listeners have heard me say 34 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: on this show before, the problem is a decline in marriage, yes, 35 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: but it's a decline in all relationships, including friendships. The 36 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: top message that I get to this show is from 37 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: parents writing in about helping their kid, sometimes a teen, 38 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: sometimes a twenty something, have more of a social life. 39 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: Something has definitely shifted for the worse. Listen to this 40 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: stat from the article the share of women age eighteen 41 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: to forty who are single that is neither married nor 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: cohabitating with a partner was fifty one point four percent 43 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, according to an analysis of census 44 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: data by the Aspen Economic Strategy Group. That's up from 45 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: forty one point eight percent in two thousand. I mean 46 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: a ten point jump in twenty years or so. And 47 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: that part about cohabitating is important. It's not just marriage 48 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: that people aren't participating in. It's not this piece of paper, 49 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: it's not the institution. It's everything. It's having relationships in general. 50 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: There are a lot of reasons for it, and a 51 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: lot of the articles and a lot of the research 52 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: focuses on the financial more than anything else. Women are 53 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: succeeding at previously unheard of levels. Men aren't, women want 54 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: to marry up, etc. But is that what you're hearing 55 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: from real people in your life who are trying to 56 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: find someone. It's not at all what I'm hearing. I'm 57 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: hearing that women can't find a man who will be faithful, 58 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: and men say they can't find a woman who isn't 59 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: in two material things. Women say men don't ask any 60 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: questions about themselves on dates, So a woman will ask 61 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: him about his family, about his job, about his hobbies, 62 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: and he won't say a word asking her in return, 63 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: He'll just answer her questions. Men say that women expect 64 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: them to carry conversations and interactions. I get that those 65 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: things are diametrically opposed, but I hear both of these perspectives, 66 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: and these are all things that I've heard multiple times. 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: We're missing the forest for the trees. It's not that 68 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: women are focused on their jobs. It's that they are 69 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 1: focused on their jobs because they can't find a man. 70 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from listeners on this, am I 71 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: right is the whole She's just a career woman, a 72 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: red herring. Let me know what you think. Thanks for listening. 73 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: Coming up, my interview with Abigail Schreyer, and Welcome back 74 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today 75 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: is Abigail Schreyer. Abigail is contributing editor at The Free 76 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: Press and the author of two best selling books, Irreversible Damage, 77 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: The Transgender Creates, Seducing Our Daughters and Bad Therapy Why 78 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: the Kids Aren't Growing Up. Abigail is also one of 79 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: my all time favorite people. Hi, Abigail is so nice to. 80 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 2: Have you on. Oh, it's great. To be here, Carol, 81 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 2: great to talk to you. 82 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: So I feel like my first question too, has to 83 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: be why do you do it? Why do you do this? 84 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: Why do you write controversial books that are going to 85 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,679 Speaker 1: bring you, you know, nasty hate now when? And here's 86 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: the thing. I think you are amazing, brilliant, but you're 87 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: also a fantastic writer. Like a lot of people in 88 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: our world are smart, but they don't have a beautiful 89 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: writing style. You could be writing about anything, but you're 90 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: choosing to go into the lines. 91 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: And why, Well, thank you. That's very kind of you 92 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: to say. 93 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 3: I mean, I write about what interests me, and I 94 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 3: write about things where I don't know the answer to 95 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 3: the question. 96 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 2: And you know, starting out with you. 97 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: Know, irreversible damage. A reader wrote to me to tell 98 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: me about this sudden spike and transgender identification among teenage girls, 99 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: and no one was at the time willing to write 100 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 3: about it, and I wanted to know if she was right, 101 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 3: and so it sort of took me on an investigative journey. 102 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 3: But it wasn't you know, provocation wasn't the point. It 103 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 3: was really sort of get getting to the answer. And 104 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 3: I like that, I mean, I like getting to the answer. 105 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 3: I always feel that I feel personally much safer in 106 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 3: a world where I feel like I have full information 107 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 3: and I know what's going on and the truth is 108 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 3: more than sort of public opprobrium. Things that worry me 109 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: is really not knowing or being fooled, and those things. 110 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: Actually do scare me. 111 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 3: So, you know, you sort of have to go with 112 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 3: who you are in life, I think, especially in your profession, 113 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 3: and you know, the job sort of suits me, it 114 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 3: just does. 115 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: It does, but you're so not like you're very mild 116 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: mannered and just a calm, rational person. I mean your 117 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: books are very common rational too, But I think that 118 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: the hate at you is not And I don't know, 119 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: I worry about you in that way just because like 120 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: it's not like you don't need it, but you don't 121 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: need it. You don't need that kind of response, and 122 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: yet you're going out there and doing it anyway. I'm 123 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: very proud of you, obviously. I think that that's, you know, 124 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: the way to be. I don't know necessarily that I 125 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: have that. 126 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 3: So so people get angry with me because I'm effective. 127 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 3: That's what makes them so angry. So I think if 128 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 3: I were more provocative or extreme or ungrounded or unfounded, 129 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 3: and things I had to say, I would get a 130 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 3: lot less hate and I would be more ignored. And 131 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 3: the reason that I get attention is because I, you know, 132 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 3: try to craft things in a way that will be 133 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: effective and well grounded and therefore hard to ignore. So 134 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 3: you know that that makes some activists angry who are 135 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 3: trying to, you know, keep the facts from getting to light. 136 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 3: I really think that's sort of their problem. And I, 137 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 3: you know, I leave the rest up to the public, 138 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 3: but you know, I'm going to keep doing my job. 139 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: What was your path here? How did you get your start? 140 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: Oh? 141 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 3: So that's a great question. So I, you know, always 142 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 3: did journalism high school. I was a stringer for the 143 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 3: Wall Street Washington Jewish Week and you know, through college 144 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 3: and then I was working at the Washington Monthly. And 145 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: I got the advice from some of my editors. You know, 146 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 3: journalists are so often diletants. They don't you know, you 147 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: have to know about everything, but you never know anything deeply. 148 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 3: You should really try to get a PhD or learn 149 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 3: something deeply. And I thought, well, I wasn't sure I 150 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: wanted to do a PhD. I did some graduate life. 151 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: It seems drastic. 152 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it seemed drastic. 153 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 3: But one thing they said that did scare me. It 154 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 3: wasn't anything they said, Actually it was something they did. 155 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 3: And that was that my editor, one of my editors, 156 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 3: she was this beautiful, young, very talented editor, and I 157 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 3: think she was about twenty five at the time, and 158 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 3: she was going out to dinner with this sixty five 159 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 3: year old man who was rich, just so he would 160 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 3: buy her dinner. Because the editors were so poor at 161 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 3: the Washington Monthly that they would basically do anything for 162 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 3: a nice meal. And that scared me. That scared me 163 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 3: more than anything she said. So after that I went 164 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 3: to law school. I thought this journalism on my own 165 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 3: dinner actually exactly, I thought journalism could be very bleak 166 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 3: if that's what you have to do to get a meal. 167 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 3: So so I went to law school, but I never 168 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 3: really enjoyed the practice of law. And so when when 169 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 3: my kids were born, I started writing these novels and 170 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 3: they weren't going anywhere, and I thought, I have to 171 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: get my novels out before I go back to journalism, 172 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 3: because once people find out, you know, once people say 173 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 3: my journalism will never let me publish another novel, right, 174 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 3: but my novels were not successful. 175 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 2: I never sold one. 176 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 3: So I decided, you know what, I have so many thoughts, 177 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 3: I'm just going to go back to journalism and from there, 178 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 3: I just started writing for the local press and my 179 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 3: career sort of took off. 180 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: Would law have been the plan? B I suppose. 181 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I like writing about law even now. It's 182 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 3: certainly an advantage in journalism to be able to write 183 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 3: accurately about law. 184 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 2: It's something that trips up a lot of journalists. 185 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 3: So you know, certainly having that in my toolkit, as 186 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 3: it were, as something I can write about, I have 187 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 3: found very useful. You know, I'm not I'm not scared 188 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 3: by a statute in the way that I very reasonably 189 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 3: some journalists would be, well understandably, I mean, and I also, 190 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 3: you know, you know, because I went to Ye law school, 191 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 3: I have a number of professors I can call up 192 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 3: if I'm not sure about something and get a really, 193 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 3: really smart take. So so you know, I I like 194 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 3: having you know, personally, I'm glad that I went to 195 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 3: law school, but you know, the journalism just just really 196 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 3: suits my personality best. 197 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: You live in California, and I've had a lot of 198 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: people on the show who have left California in the 199 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: last five years and you're staying, You're you're, you're, you're 200 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: waiting it out. How how is it going? How is 201 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: how is it out there? Well? 202 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 3: You know, obviously California is a disaster in so many 203 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 3: ways that it's no secret we're horribly governed all the 204 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 3: way down from the you know, state level, uh through 205 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 3: my local uh here in LA. 206 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 2: I mean, the governance is a disaster. But I write 207 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: about the culture. 208 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 3: And there is really no better way to look at 209 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 3: how the culture has gone drastically off course, how it 210 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: has undermined families and children than to be in a 211 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 3: in the state where a lot of that those bad 212 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,719 Speaker 3: ideas and bad policies get started. So you know, from 213 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 3: that perspective, it really is a candy store for a journalist, 214 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 3: and uh, for from the perspective of our family, we're 215 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 3: in it. We happen to be in a very nice 216 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 3: community so that you know, the kids are in a 217 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 3: good school, we're happy with so uh, from that perspective, 218 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 3: it's it's we're doing all right. 219 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: So California gets to keep you for now. 220 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, we'll revisit right, Okay, sounds good. 221 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: What do you worry about? 222 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 3: Oh, so, there's there's so much to worry. But I 223 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 3: think the thing I worry about the most right now 224 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:12,599 Speaker 3: is why young people are not forming relationships, healthy relationships, 225 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 3: sort of the retreat from the in person world and 226 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 3: also the lack of meaningful romantic relationships that we're seeing 227 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 3: young people less interested in having them. 228 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 2: They're too young. 229 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 3: To know that they're giving up on the best things 230 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 3: in life. And also they've been lied to a lot 231 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 3: of them believe that no, I need to get my 232 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 3: professions started first. I can't possibly date someone until I've 233 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 3: pursued my career as a paralegal and it's legal. 234 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: Don't go pursuing that career. Go ahead and find your spouse. 235 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 2: Now, right. 236 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, for any job, they will put 237 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 3: off finding a spouse, and it really should be their reverse. 238 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 3: You know, I'm not saying, you know, don't take your 239 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 3: career seriously, but God willing, we have many decades, productive 240 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 3: decades head but you know, the way we're designed, we 241 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 3: have a short time with biology and in which to 242 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: have children and to marry, and that's the thing that 243 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 3: we actually should be you know, putting at least as 244 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 3: much energy into if not more, And unfortunately it's really reversed. 245 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 3: Young people are putting all their energy into their careers 246 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 3: and none into finding a spouse. 247 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: And I do think that's a real problem. 248 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: Do you think phones are related to it, that they're 249 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: not living like real lives or they're just on the internet. 250 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 3: Absolutely undeniably. But I also think that that the fearfulness 251 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 3: of the generation. They're so full of worry and look 252 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 3: in our personal relationships are the scariest and most risky 253 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 3: things you'll ever get involved in, and they're also the 254 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 3: most rewarding. But not knowing if someone's going to like 255 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 3: you back, much less love you back, not knowing if 256 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 3: you're going to get your heart broken. These are really 257 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 3: scary things, and we've raised this generation to be the 258 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 3: most fear and so unfortunately they're staying away from the 259 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 3: ultimate rewards of a loving relationship. 260 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 261 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. I talk about this 262 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: a lot on the show, about relationships and about all 263 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: kinds of connections between people. Family, friendships, friendships are way down. 264 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: It's not just they're not just not making romantic connections. 265 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: They're not even making friends anymore. And I get emails 266 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: all the time from people saying like, how can I 267 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: help my teenager or how can I help my twenty 268 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: something make friends. It's become so like people see it 269 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: as out of reach to connect with other people, and 270 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: it's scary. 271 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, you had a great column on that. I should 272 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 3: have mentioned that. It was a terrific column. Everyone should 273 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 3: go back and read it if they missed it. On 274 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 3: the decline of friendship. It was something that I wasn't 275 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 3: aware of until I. 276 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: Saw your column. 277 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 3: And it's exactly what you just said is exactly right. 278 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 3: I mean, we look back on our lives. Friendships and 279 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 3: romantic relationships. These are you know, in your spouse and 280 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 3: then these are at the top of what gives you 281 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 3: meaning and satisfaction in life. And friendships are amazing things 282 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 3: because you start out, you have these conflicts, right, you know, 283 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 3: you get very close to someone, then you fall out 284 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 3: of touch, or maybe you get shared with them or 285 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: whatever happens. 286 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 2: But this is the amazing thing. 287 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: Years go by and for whatever reason, it has this 288 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 3: amazing cementing effect of making your friendship so meaningful and 289 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 3: so strong, and it doesn't even matter how mad you 290 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 3: got at her over this or that in the sixth grade. 291 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 3: You look back and all of a sudden, you've known 292 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 3: her for thirty years. And I do very much worry 293 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 3: that kids are missing out on those close friendships. 294 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely like it's something that I think about 295 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: a lot. But you know, I'm on my phone a lot. 296 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't say that I'm not guilty of 297 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: the same thing. Every every moment of awkwardness, I immediately 298 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: reached my phone just like WHOA, this feels much more comfortable. 299 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: I could just scroll and not focus on whatever is 300 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: happening here. How do you kind of direct your kids 301 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: toward those connections? Right? 302 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 3: So, first of all, let me just acknowledge that it's 303 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 3: near impossible to manage the phones and the computers. It's 304 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 3: so hard, and the schools have made it harder than 305 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 3: any I think any institution. You try to keep these 306 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 3: things away from your kids, and then every teacher assigns 307 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 3: homework through some school some computer programs. So let me 308 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 3: just start by saying, I am, you know, not perfect 309 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: by any means. How do I direct my kids to 310 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 3: in person relationships? I do send them to a school 311 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 3: with a no phone policy, which has been really wonderful. 312 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 3: And you know, my sons who are in high school, 313 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 3: they have what's known as kosher phones. You can actually 314 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 3: buy these things are Internet blocked. It's great that doesn't 315 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 3: It's been wonderful for us. They have you know, various 316 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 3: apps like WhatsApp for communicating with teams or you know, 317 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 3: chatting apps. But when it like Gmail, so they can 318 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 3: use their see their schedules and whatnot. But it's not 319 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 3: the open Internet, Okay, so that's somewhat better. But truthfully, 320 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 3: and this goes to another question that I think is 321 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 3: you let me know is on your mind is sort 322 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 3: of what advice would I give? 323 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: And that is that let's just. 324 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: Go right to it. What advice would you give your 325 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: sixteen year old self? 326 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 3: Well, you know, what advice would I give my sixteen 327 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 3: year old self will be a little different, but I'll 328 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 3: tell you what advice I would give in general on 329 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 3: this issue of improving life, improving your life honestly, and 330 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 3: I hate to say it, and people are going to 331 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 3: get really upset that I said this, or maybe tune out, 332 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 3: but honestly, the easiest, quickest, most assured way to do. 333 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 3: This is to join a religious community, join a church, 334 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 3: join us in a God. There is no quicker way 335 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 3: to get actual real community, that is in person, that 336 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 3: is meaningful, that is full of connections. And yes, it 337 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 3: comes with plenty of annoyance too, of course, But but 338 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 3: I actually think that that is the most direct way 339 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 3: to sort of immediately improve your life. 340 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: I love it. That's usually the last question. But that's okay, 341 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: that's okay. 342 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 3: We can Sorry, what advice would I give to my 343 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 3: sixteen year old self? You know, I spent a lot 344 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 3: of years. I think this may resonate with with a 345 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 3: lot of women. So I spend a lot of years 346 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 3: thinking my personality was just wrong. So by which I mean, 347 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 3: you hear from a lot of other girls you can't 348 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 3: say that, my god. You know that seems to be 349 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 3: a theme with girl groups of girls, and you spend 350 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 3: a lot of time sort of, especially if you're like 351 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 3: me or you know you, I would imagine you sort 352 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 3: of if you're a straightforward person who just sort of 353 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 3: calls things like you see them, you spend a lot 354 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 3: of time with other girls being told that you're mean, 355 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 3: you're saying all the wrong things, and you don't share 356 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 3: what you said. And if I could go back, what 357 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 3: I would would would do is sort of tell myself, 358 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 3: you know, there's going to be a place for someone 359 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 3: with your personality. 360 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 2: It's not all bad. 361 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 3: It may be hard to maintain large groups of friends 362 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 3: of girlfriends because they want you to flatter them, and 363 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 3: the ticket for large groups of girlfriends tends to be 364 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 3: small lies and flattery, neither of which I'm terribly good at. 365 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 3: But it turns out there's you know, there's really a 366 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 3: place for you, no matter your personality. And I'm not 367 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 3: talking about sociopathy or anything like that, right, but personality 368 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 3: and in journalism, you know, I'm I'm not running against 369 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 3: you know, I'm going with the current when it comes 370 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 3: to my personality when I tell the truth, because that's 371 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 3: something that's always been very easy for me. It's it's 372 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 3: covering up the truth or or taking care of everyone's 373 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 3: feelings that's always been harder. So I sort of if 374 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 3: I could go back, I wish I would have known 375 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 3: that actually, what what was so difficult in some situations 376 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 3: that required niceties and flattery and and you know, white 377 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 3: lies would actually be to my advantage in a career 378 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 3: in journalism. 379 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: Did you always have primarily male friends or yes, yes, 380 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: same same, same. Yeah. Do you know how that is 381 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: so not popular now? Like that is when I say 382 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: that to my fifteen year old daughter, she's like, that's 383 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: you know they call girls like that like the pick 384 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: me girl who like tries to cater to boys and 385 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 1: like no, boys were just they were funny and trying 386 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: to be funny all the time. And that's what I 387 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: was looking for totally. 388 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 3: And I was also I was always close to my 389 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 3: father and my brother Yeah, yeah. And I don't know 390 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 3: if it's because I was close to him or we 391 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 3: were close because we had such similar personalities, But I 392 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 3: always got along with men and boys much better. And 393 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 3: you know, my husband says he always jokes that I'm 394 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 3: the only woman who wants to be told when she 395 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: looks fat, because. 396 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 2: I'll say to him, do I get fat in this? 397 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 2: And I want to know before I leave the house. 398 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: I don't want to be lied to it you definitely 399 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: don't want to be Apparently that's. 400 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 2: A big no no with most women. They want to 401 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 2: be lied to. 402 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: And why would you ask unless you want to know 403 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: the honest opinion, what am I doing here? 404 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 2: Exactly? 405 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 3: If I don't look that I want to change immediately 406 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 3: before I leave the house. So you know, that was 407 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 3: always very hard with me with groups of girlfriends. I 408 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 3: always had a female best friend, but the rest I 409 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 3: just couldn't maintain the group. 410 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 2: I just could never you know, keep the whole group happy. 411 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 3: And and and I didn't know that that those same 412 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 3: sort of personality quirks would would make some areas of 413 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 3: my life much much easier. 414 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: Do you feel like your books change the conversation and 415 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: enough to make those issues that you've written about better? 416 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: Like I think you writing about the trans contagion blew 417 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: it all up to such an extent that I think that, 418 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: I mean, maybe I just live in Florida now, but 419 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: I'm seeing a change, a shift in the way that 420 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: this is all going down it I don't see as 421 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: many And again, this might just be a New York 422 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: to Florida move. Maybe they're still all trendsing in New York, 423 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: but it seems like fewer girls are going down that path. 424 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: And similarly your book about you know, over therapy for kids, 425 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: I feel like the conversation around that has changed and 426 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: that there's an improvement. Do you feel any of that. 427 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 2: I do think so, and I'm very happy about that. 428 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 3: I mean, the advantage of writing a book is, here's 429 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 3: what I try to do. 430 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 2: I don't write a book that's just my opinions or 431 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 2: my take. 432 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with that, but that's not what I do. 433 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 3: I try to create a document that people can take 434 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 3: that's full of information and that can really add to 435 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 3: the discourse. So in Bad Therapy, there were legislators who 436 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 3: the book who were argued in court against. You know, 437 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 3: people would argue in court against or in favor of 438 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 3: puberty blocker bands or whatnot, and they would have all 439 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 3: the evidence in my book, they would say, they would 440 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 3: cite it in their briefs. 441 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 2: And I tried to do the same for Bad Therapy. 442 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 3: I wanted parents who went into school boards and were trying, 443 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 3: who sensed in their guts there was something wrong with 444 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 3: social emotional learning to be able to say here, chapter 445 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 3: whatever chapter it was, I think it was chapter nine, 446 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 3: but or chapter six, and they would say, here, it's 447 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 3: all in this book. And that's what I try to do. 448 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 3: I try to be a resource in that way. 449 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 2: The nice thing. 450 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 3: About a book is that you know it's always there, 451 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 3: so you know it's you know, an episode will get 452 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 3: more views, but then people rarely go back and listen 453 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 3: to or re watch old episodes. The advantage, of course 454 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 3: of the episodes is you know, unfortunately reading is really declining. 455 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 2: So I think I think sort of the podcast. 456 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 3: World and the book world work really well together because 457 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 3: you sort of need both to reach people. 458 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: Absolutely, So do you when you when people do cite 459 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: your work, do they I mean, do you feel like 460 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: you've gotten the credit that you deserve for this? I 461 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: feel like maybe not enough. 462 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 2: That's fair. 463 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: I think Avigail Schreier deserves more. 464 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 3: Guys, thank you. 465 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 2: You know, I'm I'm I'm happy. I think that, you know, 466 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 2: I'm not. I think if I were. 467 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 3: More strategic about my career in certain ways, I would 468 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 3: have stayed on each topic longer and kept promoting it 469 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 3: and promoting it and promoting it. So within the year 470 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 3: after Irreversible Damage was out, I was really onto new 471 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 3: topics and new investigations because just I'm just interested in 472 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 3: what the next thing is, and I'm not I'm not 473 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 3: someone who has I'm not an activist. I don't have 474 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 3: a burning passion about one issue, and so you know, 475 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 3: as a jo I'm always looking at sort of what's 476 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 3: ahead and what. 477 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 2: The next issue is. 478 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 3: I don't know if that's the best always the best 479 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 3: move for my career. It might be to make sure 480 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 3: that I'm the one person everyone constantly goes to for 481 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 3: this one issue. But for me, I like being able 482 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 3: to move on to the next topic and reveal something 483 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 3: else if I can. 484 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: I love it. She is Abigail Schreier. Get her books, 485 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: read her anywhere you can. You're so fantastic. Thank you 486 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: so much for coming on. I've loved this conversation. 487 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 2: Thank you, Carol, You're the best. 488 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marco 489 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: Which show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.