1 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: predict anything presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting 4 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear. For every hunt, 5 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: first Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer. Okay, we're recording in Sonora, Mexico, 6 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: but I need to start. I need to start the 7 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: show with with distressing news from the United States of America, 8 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: which is only fourteen miles away. Yeah, so it's comforting 9 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: in some way covering American news from Mexico. Here's the 10 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: headline from the New York Times. Biden moves to end 11 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: donnut lures and other bear hunting tactics in Alaska. This 12 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: is the story that never goes away. One might see 13 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: that and think, uh, well that sounds horrible. Don't ut lures, 14 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: I don't like that, um, and then be happy about 15 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: what's going on. This this story we have reported on. 16 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: This is one of those seesaw stories that comes up 17 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: as as administrations change. Um. It's also one of the 18 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: stories I always feel like that I should I should 19 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: get to be the one that writes the article because 20 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: I would write it different than everybody else. Let me 21 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: back up to explain what's going on up until no 22 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of how far back to go. 23 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go pretty far back. When Alaska became a state. A. 24 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get into great deal detail on this, 25 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: but people can go look into this. When Alaska be 26 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,919 Speaker 1: am a state, an issue a negotiating point was wildlife 27 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: management in Alaska okay um, meaning Alaska want to hang 28 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: onto its wildlife management and Alaska has some management issues 29 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: in the state where they have a thing called subsistence hunting. Okay. 30 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: When Alaska looks at the finite resource, which would be 31 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: fishing game, Alaska always will favor subsistence practices. Okay. If 32 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: you are a person like me who lives in the 33 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: lower forty eight and goes into Alaska to hunt, you 34 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: are the lowest priority in in Alaska wildlife management. The 35 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: highest priority in Alaska wildlife management is subsistence users. Next 36 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: to that, sitting below subsistence users are certain commercial practices. Okay, 37 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: So like commercial fishing, um, the guiding industry. Okay, they're 38 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: gonna get it. So let's say you have a finite 39 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: resource like salmon is a finite resource. Top of the 40 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: stack are going to be the needs of subsistence users 41 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: who rely on phish and game for the for to 42 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: eat for sustenance. There they get first DIBs. Second DIBs 43 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: would be the commercial industry. Third DIBs would be recreationalists. Okay, 44 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 1: most states that that that don't have that subsistence thing 45 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: will look at it'll be it'll be commercial, recreational and 46 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: those are the competing interests. But Alaska, you have a 47 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: third competing interest, which is subsistence. So keep that in 48 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: the back of your head as you hear we're talking about. 49 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: Alaska uses predator management, as do many states in lower 50 00:03:54,960 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: forty eight. Alaska uses predator management on the apologetically two 51 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: increase and hold stable populations of big game. And they 52 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: don't do this like it's a naughty little secret. It's like, 53 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: in my view, in Alaska's view, there is absolutely nothing 54 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: wrong with saying we would like to have we would 55 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: like to increase big game numbers at the expense of 56 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: some predators in order to be able to provide big 57 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: game resources to subsistence users too, guides and outfitters to recreationalists. 58 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: They look, and it's like there's a lever that you 59 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: can move, you can reduce predators, big game populations. It's 60 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: it's a thing that they do in order to reduce 61 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: predator numbers. They have a number, they have things at 62 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: their disposal. It could be it could hiring people to 63 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: go into airplanes an airplane gun for wolves. I remember 64 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: that because when when when Palin? How do you feel 65 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: about Palin? When Palin really became in the spotlight as 66 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: John McCain's running mate under her governorship in Alaska, they 67 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: had done aerial wolf shooting as a predator management tool, 68 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: and I feel like a lot of Americans got the 69 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: idea that that Sarah Palin herself was the wolf gunner. 70 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: It was sort of like really laid on her doorstep. 71 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: But this is a historic practice that that long predated Palin. Okay, 72 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: this is the thing that since since aircraft came into being, 73 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: they have been using aircraft to control wolf numbers. Another 74 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: thing they'll do to control predator numbers is rather than 75 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: have it be a state sponsored activity paid for by 76 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: the state, you can control old predator numbers through the 77 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: lever of subsistence hunter practices, recreational hunter practices guiding outfitter practices, 78 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: meaning you can make predator hunting easier and more productive 79 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: by having certain management strategies in place. Now, some of 80 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:28,239 Speaker 1: these management strategies people find distasteful when they hear about 81 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: them out of context and in isolation. For instance, if 82 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: I told you Um about going that someone was gonna 83 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: go in den dig for black bears, you would be, oh, 84 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: how heartless and horrible. Well on the Koyukon people Um, 85 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: who are from the vicinity of the Koyakok River which 86 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: flows into the Yukon, they felt uh when the anthropologists 87 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: Richard K. Nelson spent time with them. They had explained 88 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: to Richard K. Nelson that they felt that it was 89 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: unethical to kill a bear otherwise than to dig it 90 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: out of its den. That the shooting up and out 91 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: of the ground was not acceptable. If you wanted to 92 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: hunt bears, you went to You knew through ancestral knowledge 93 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: and through your own discoveries. You knew where bears denned, 94 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: You knew den sits, and when you went out for bears, 95 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: you went in the winter and you crawled into bear 96 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: dens to check if they're being occupied. And that is 97 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: how a real hunter hundred bears. And a thing that 98 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: we all know now and like it has broader and 99 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: broader buy in is that you do not go in 100 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: in uh. You know, there's there's this sort of de 101 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: facto reverence for hunter gatherer practices, like it was how 102 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: it was done. Okay, So in Alaska there are places 103 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: historically where it has been legal two den dig for bears. 104 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: It was legal ton dig for bears. It was a 105 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: customary practice to den dig for bears before there was law, 106 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: before there was state law or federal law. People were 107 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: den digging bears. That's how they were doing it. There's 108 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: another management practice in Alaska that gets a lot of criticism, 109 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: and this is the practice of shooting swimming animals. Okay, 110 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: in a lot of states, you simply cannot shoot a 111 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: swimming animal. However, there are areas in Alaska that are 112 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: extraordinarily remote and you can only get to them by 113 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: air or by boat, and subsistence hunters have historically hundred 114 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: in some of these areas by going into these areas 115 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: and penetrating these areas the only way one can, which 116 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: is by boat. And the caribou hunting practice would be 117 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: that you would go to these known crossings during caribou migrations, 118 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: and you would take boat there and set up a 119 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: camp at a cariboo crossing, and you would hunt caribou 120 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: as they were crossing the river out of boats. It 121 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: had been done prior with at laddles and spears. As 122 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: firearms came into being, it made it became the practice. 123 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: You can't get them any other place than to catch 124 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: them crossing the river in a vast wilderness. So, prior 125 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: to law, prior to state law, prior to federal law, 126 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: it was a practice in certain places to hunt caribou 127 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: that were swimming because you're killing them at fords. And 128 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: it's how indigenous hunters had done it, and other people 129 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: that followed in their path had done it, and they 130 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: that practice had become codified into law because it was 131 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: historic use. What's another one we covered den dig and Oh, 132 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: another one would be um that when you're trying to 133 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: lower wolf numbers in order to increase cariboan moose numbers, 134 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: that you might allow the killing of wolf pops. Okay, 135 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: because from the manager's perspective, you're trying to raise prey numbers, 136 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: you're trying to raise meat for humans and in order 137 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: to raise meat for humans. As the level you can 138 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: pull is killing wolves. I guess looking at it, the 139 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: wolf that's getting killed in predator control um doesn't feel 140 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: better or worse about his death, knowing what his ages meaning. 141 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: A five year old wolf isn't like, oh, I understand, 142 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: shoot me, I'm five, but a one year old wolf 143 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: would be like, oh, the horror and sin. It's like, 144 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: it's you're you're reducing wolf numbers and you're just gonna 145 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: do it the most productive way you can think of, 146 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: which should be reduced wolf numbers. So these practices are historic. 147 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: Practices have always been in place in Alaska. I'm getting 148 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: to the part that burns my U. We haven't got 149 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: there yet. Well, no, because this is the thing Like 150 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: like everyone that writes about this, every I haven't even 151 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: gotten to the to the whip saw. I haven't even 152 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: gotten to the whipsaw. Party joined a Day by Jason Phelps, 153 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: Clay Nwcomb, Clay Newcomb, Nwcomb, Bridget Newton in first, like 154 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: Matt Cook, who's been on the show before, it has 155 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: yet to speak, but he has a question. I have 156 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: a question, and for the first time, Jason Bergsman, the 157 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: last of the old Kusman. You have a question just 158 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: on what it covered. Do you have a question. I 159 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: haven't got to the part, but go ahead. I have 160 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: a question. We're laying the ground. How does a rancher 161 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: who you know, has predation problems and poisons like a wolf, 162 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: how does that fit in two that that's a that's 163 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: a non thing. Okay, yeah, that's a non thing. Um. Now, 164 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: if you were to go and read, if you were 165 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: going to read um Alaska's Wolfman, about one of the 166 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: first wolf guys that went up into Alaska. I think 167 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: he became active in the twenties. UM. And at the 168 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: they were they were there's this there's this book, Alaska's 169 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: wolf Man. It's it's a fascinating read. And he goes 170 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: up and he goes out to work for the state 171 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: of Alaska on wolf control, typically in areas where caribou 172 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: herds have been greatly depleted, and later in areas where 173 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:30,359 Speaker 1: they were doing economic development and they were going to UM. 174 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: He spends a bunch of time up by cots of 175 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: you whereas an economic development plan they were trying to 176 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: get Native Alaskans set up in the reindeer herding business. Okay, Okay, 177 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: they were trying to stabilize food resources and get them 178 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: set up to be reindeer herders. But they would bring 179 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: in these reindeer herds and they would just get decimated 180 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: by wolves. Then in Alaska's Wolfman, he goes from being 181 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: just a gun hunter, like doing wolf control with guns, 182 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: and then he gets do poisons. And I think he's 183 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: he's getting into poisons even in the nineteen fifties, and 184 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: just how amazingly effective that's yeah, Like he talks about 185 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: just how astonishingly effective the poisons are. Like he'll go 186 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: he he talks about going into an area this is 187 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: near costs Abue. He goes into an area with poison 188 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: pellets and he would just go out and shoot something 189 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: and lace it. And he gets to where he feels 190 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: he's killed every wolf. There's no wolves left. A guy 191 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: reports to him they saw like seven gray wolves and 192 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: two black wolves come across the ice, come across some 193 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: bay and get into the area he's in. And he's like, 194 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: sure enough. A couple days later, he goes to one 195 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: of his bait stations. There's seven gray wolves and two 196 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: black wolves laying dead at his bait station. Like astonishingly effective. 197 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: When we talk about wolfers in the lower forty eight 198 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: they were poisoning wolves, not as predator control, I mean 199 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: they did eventually, but the first guy's poisoning wolves, and 200 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: even starting in the eighteen sixties, they were poisoning wolves 201 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: for the wolf hide trade. And they would use strict nine. 202 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: You would shoot an animal, gash it, cut gashes in it, 203 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: and mix of just like an infintestinal amount of strict nine. 204 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: I think they would mix it with water and scatter 205 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: it on the carcass, and then you'd wait a while 206 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: and go and pick it up. In Life, and there's 207 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: a book, Life and Death of the Mouth of the 208 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: Muscle Shell, which is a guy's journal, and he'll talk 209 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: about going and checking his bait stations and coming back 210 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: with with forty wolves. He also talks about I can't 211 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: remember which tribe, but the tribe a tribal representative coming 212 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: into his establishment at the Mouth of the Muscle Shell 213 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: where the muscle shell flows into the Missouri's underwater now 214 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: because the Fort Peck Reservoir. A guy comes in and 215 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: it has a gripe about the wolf baiting practices because 216 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: they were traveling through the area and lost twenty four 217 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: of their dogs to these guys strict nine baits. So 218 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: they were wolfers, and they wolfers because at that time 219 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: there was a fad that when you had a wagon, 220 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: there was a it was fashionable to have a wolf 221 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: pelt blanket, got it for your guests in your wagon. 222 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: So on a cold day, you get into your wagon, 223 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: you'd want to be able to have your guests cover 224 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: up with a wolf pelt blanket. And that drove the 225 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: wolf for poison trade, and then in time it became 226 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: um they were poisoning for for predator control. And then 227 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: eventually the practice of poisoning wolves was eliminated. But they'll 228 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: still in place, they'll still use this little gun was 229 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: that you know the name of that thing. Basically, a 230 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: coyote takes a bait and it have you heard that 231 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: the capsule delivers it. But it has to be like 232 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: you're not just lacing baits. Alaska's wolfman, he'll talk about 233 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: going into his laced baits and he's got birds, he's 234 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: got wolverines, he's got is everything scattered around dead? Uh, 235 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: But that's not that's not a thing they're doing right now. 236 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: And I would also argue if if if they were 237 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: using poisons right now in Alaska for predator control, you 238 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: would lose the ability to talk. What I was just 239 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: trying to do is laying out that these are historic 240 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: use practices that if if we're gonna go look, if 241 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna go look in wild game management and you're 242 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: gonna go look at like what's ethical, what's not ethical? Um, 243 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: it's all it's so arbitrary and so personal. I think 244 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: that that Alaska's I think Alaska is great about acknowledging 245 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: and protecting traditional use practices, even if even if preserving 246 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: traditional use practices might come at the expense of allowing 247 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: new technologies. They were one of the first states. I 248 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: think they might have been the first state I heard 249 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: of that with drones. They were done with drones before 250 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: other people started to address the question. Someone could correct 251 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, But I think that they might 252 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: have been the first state and then and then like 253 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: a bunch of Western states followed. They might have been 254 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,239 Speaker 1: the first state to be like no on drones. So 255 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: it's not that like Alaska doesn't have a come one, 256 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: come all, kill them all by any means necessary policy. 257 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: They follow traditional use practices. It's not you know, and 258 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: the new stuff they might go and get rid of. 259 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: So they were like early on guys, you could you 260 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: could use you can picture how clay, you could picture this, 261 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: how effective drones would be for hunting moose. You're in 262 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: willow flats, everything's twelve feet high. You have this big 263 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: black animal. You know what's right. It's got to be 264 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 1: right around you in a willow flats, the paddles. It's 265 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: not like you're not it's not gonna hide from a drone. 266 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: And they right away were like, no on drones. But 267 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: but in places you can take a bear out of 268 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: its hole. But this get this gives me the second 269 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: part of what burns masks about this whole thing that 270 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: was the first. No, just that's just background because I'm 271 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: trying to establish. Keep in mind these management practices that 272 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: Alaska has. Okay, now let's look at the restraint with 273 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: which they will exercise them. Okay, go to Region two 274 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: of Alaska. In Region two of Alaska, which is Prince 275 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: of Wales Island. Get Unit two or whatever the region 276 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: I think they call the units unit to Prince Wales 277 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: on Alaska. Black bears a predator. Okay, you can't hunt 278 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: it from not only like, you can't hunt it from 279 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: a boat. You cannot legally that the ruthless state of 280 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: Alaska that just wants to kill all the predators. If 281 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: you're in Prince Wales Island, you have to have your 282 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: feet on the ground. You cannot shoot a black or 283 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: from a boat. You cannot shoot a saw. You can't 284 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: shoot cubs. You can't shoot a saw with cubs. You 285 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: have salvage requirements always the skull meet in the spring, meeting, 286 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: hide in the spring, hide in the fall. You have 287 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: a permit draw where if you're a nonresident, you have 288 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: about a chance of getting an opportunity to hunt one 289 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: of these predators at all. No den digging. Okay. Because 290 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: they have a management practice in their toolbox does not 291 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: mean they universally exercise it. Okay, It's just a thing 292 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: they have the ability to do. But generally, all of 293 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: these practices that I'm naming out, generally you can't. Generally 294 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: they don't in places they do. During the Obama administration, 295 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: the Feds came to say to Alaska, they came and 296 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: made this this this this this like like very arbitrary 297 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: seeming designation where the national like through the National Parks 298 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: or if they come and said, we're gonna eliminate Alaska's 299 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: ability to exercise certain practices that they may or may 300 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: not currently be exercising on refuge land, on federal refuge land. 301 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: So here you have a state that has game management 302 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: authority in their state. The Feds manage a ton of 303 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: land in Alaska. But that's that's always like, that's the 304 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: system of checks and balances that exists all over the US. 305 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: You have tons of federal land on which the wildlife 306 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: on that land is managed by the state. It's it's 307 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: a phenomenal system. I never credit like like I love 308 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: federally managed managed land. I'm suspicious of federal wildlife management 309 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: when it supersedes a state's management decision, especially in the 310 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: case like Alaska's where they still have grizzly bears across 311 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: like of their historic range. We in the Lower forty 312 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: eight can't say the same thing we have. We we 313 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: wiped them out in Lower forty eight. They didn't wipe 314 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: theirs out. They have wolves across the entirety of their 315 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: historic range. Do we know they didn't wipe theirs out? 316 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: They have their entire suite of megafauna still intact. We don't. 317 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: They haven't wiped theirs out. So when you go and 318 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: look and be like, oh, Alaska needs have changed their ways, 319 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: by what evidence, they haven't. They haven't committed any sins 320 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: against God in terms of eliminating animals from the landscape. 321 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: So to go and and and and and to go 322 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: to them and say to them, oh, your management practices, 323 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: what you may or may not be doing right now, 324 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: can no longer be applied on refuge lands. And under 325 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: Obama they made it be the on percent of the 326 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: state is what it winds up being. In our efforts 327 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: to save the world, We're going to tell Alaska, cent 328 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: of their state, they no longer have authority to do 329 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: management practices that they may or may not be exercising 330 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: him Obama brought that in. So Obama interrupted over a 331 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: hundred years of practices that just that worked. That that 332 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: we have the evidence that they were sorry, not not 333 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: what the hell they become a state? Okay? So now 334 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: I was wrong, not a hundred years what Okay? So 335 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: the state had been an entity in and of itself. 336 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: It had been a state and with a game and 337 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: they had a game agency prior to statehood. But like 338 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: whatever you had statehood, Alaska Department of Fishing Game comes 339 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: into being. They have predator management, but they still have 340 00:22:54,240 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: intact predator the completely intact menagerie of predators still occupying 341 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: the entirety of their historic landscape. But the Feds say, 342 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: you can't do these things that you may or may 343 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: not be doing on little chunks of land where we 344 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: oversee the land designation. Obama does that. Now Trump undoes it. 345 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: So Obama upset a long history of status quo and 346 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: the way this was treated in the press when Trump 347 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: undid it. All Trump did is Trump undid a very 348 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: short thing. But how was it treated in the press. 349 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: It was like it was in the press. They treated 350 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: like Trump decided one day he woke up and said, 351 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: I think I think that in Alaska they should start 352 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: digging wolves out of their dens in and digging bears 353 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: out of their dens. I think that that's what it 354 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: should be. And so he simply undid a a a 355 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: prohibition that was still in its infancy, or turned it 356 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: to what it was four years ago exactly. But it 357 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: was treated like Trump administration decides to allow bears to 358 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: be dug from their den The horror is that not 359 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: just like a classic virtue signaling. Not to use a 360 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: political hot button word, but I mean, like the former 361 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: administration shutting that down just because they didn't like the 362 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: idea we're looking for something to grab onto that just 363 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: would get a rise out of people. I mean, it's 364 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 1: just like virtue signaling. I I'm like, maybe one of 365 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: the only few people on the planet. Um, No, there's 366 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: a couple more they can be like, uh, the con 367 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: sort out, you know, because like a lot of things, like, 368 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: no matter what Trump did, a lot of people they're 369 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: just gonna hate it mm hmm. And there's a lot 370 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: of people that are just gonna love it right, they're 371 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: they're pre wired, and you're one of the few people 372 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: on the planet that can sort that out navigating. I 373 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: feel like I'm I feel like I have an extraordinary 374 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: ability to look at record issue by issue and divorce 375 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: the policy from the noise. Yeah, and all the guy 376 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: did was he said the guy before me overreached. It 377 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: was contentious. It was an insult to Alaska ficient game, 378 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: it was an insult to the state of Alaska. They 379 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: should not have done that and put it back to 380 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: the way it was. But now Lo and Behold, here's 381 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: the final thing that was the backstory to this. Here 382 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: we are Biden moves to end donut lures, like like 383 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: the Times suddenly interested in like a specific strategy. Like 384 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: they're like, like, they're gonna end donut lures. Okay, they're 385 00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: gonna end the placing of donuts for bait, which leave 386 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: like a guy who let's say that there's a guy 387 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: using dog food coded in molasses? Is he at home going? 388 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: I guess I'm safe. No, they're ending donut lures. It's 389 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: like the Times all of sudden becomes interested in like 390 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: the specificity of the date of the bait. Why because 391 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: this sounds particularly egregious. They're not ending the use of donuts. 392 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: It's baiting. Yeah, I was gonna say that, Like where 393 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: does the interest in debit item come from? And why 394 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: did they not say Why did they not say moves 395 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: to end, burnt honeycomb moves to end. So that's not 396 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: a joke, salmon carcasses, doughnut lures. The Times is focused 397 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: on the use of donuts. Biden moves to end donut lures. 398 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: Have you ever heard that term before? Never know what 399 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: just placing of donuts. If they had said, Biden moves 400 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,239 Speaker 1: to end the baiting of bears. But it's like they're like, 401 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: how could that doesn't sound bad? It doesn't sound as 402 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: bad as I would like. But there's something that sounds 403 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: especially naughty about, don't I think? I think they're trying 404 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: to like portray like just a big overweight barry, just 405 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: like non on donuts, like you want to paint that picture. 406 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: And then in the grasping and people's grasping of like 407 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: why should this be bad? I understand why is it bad? 408 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: They point out that where's my little Ben Franklin glasses here? 409 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: They point out that, um, all the so they begin 410 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 1: so dateline Washington or you know, place line. The National 411 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: Park Services moving to prohibit hunters on some public lands 412 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: in Alaska from baiting black bears with donuts, just donuts, 413 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: and using spotlights to shoot hybridating bears and cubs in 414 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: their dens, techniques allowed by the Trump administration but considered 415 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: inhumane by conservationists. Um, and I don't, I don't And 416 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: and still pinning it back somehow on Trump. Do we 417 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: know for sure what the definition of doughnut is? I mean, 418 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: does it have to be pastry with a whole. That's 419 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: like John's our long John's in could you bait could 420 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: with a donut hole? Yeah? Yeah, donut hole is the 421 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: opposite of a donut. A doughnut hole is what makes 422 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: a donut. It's absence makes a donut. Or think about 423 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: a Danish. Sure, my minors stay like Basically, it's like, 424 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: it's like I would love to see the legislation because 425 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: I beat in the legislation, there's no mention whatsoever of 426 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: a donut. But to somehow do you think they're actually 427 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: trying talking about specifically not baiting bears using food lures, 428 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: But but they this journalist, this writer, I think, seems 429 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: to think that like it just sounds especially naughty. That 430 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: would be some good clickbait for his sounds unnatural and 431 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: naughty if it's a doughnut. So when you're reading this stuff, 432 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: when you're reading this stuff, this is just a couple 433 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: of things I would like to keep you to keep 434 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: in mind that that the mentions of Trump allowing it, 435 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: it had already been allowed. A Uh, let me find 436 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: this quote from someone, Um, here's your No, I don't 437 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: eve need his quote cause I'll just paraphrase the quote. Uh, 438 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: all these articles come out about this thing. Now it's 439 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: been three times. It was when Obama did it, he 440 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: was him saving the world by banning it. When Trump 441 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: ruined the world by putting it back the way, it 442 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: was Biden saving the world by banning it. And all 443 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: these readings, you'll find that they're gonna represe. And it 444 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: is though someone in Alaska feels like just adamant that 445 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: they're like it's presented like Alaskans just want the right 446 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: to do the most atrocious stuff imaginable to wildlife. That 447 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: they're actually just defending the use of donuts in and 448 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: of itself, that they care so much about being able 449 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: to place donuts and be mean to bears, that that's 450 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: what they're defending. And you do not And I read 451 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: all these articles. I'm a sucker for articles about the subject. 452 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: No one ever takes point to clarify the contentious issue 453 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: is it's not the They're not focused on the practice. 454 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: They're focused on how are you justifying usurping our rights 455 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: to manage wildlife as we see fit. They're not in 456 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: love with defending donuts. They're in love was saying you 457 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: don't have a place, you don't have a justification and 458 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: in some people's argument, you don't have the legal pathway 459 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: to come in and interrupt our game management practice. And 460 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: I think they can say that from a legal standpoint, 461 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: as I made clear that it's like it's it's a 462 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: federal overreach and it's a it's a usurpation. Is that 463 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: a word, Jason, usurpations? You know, we recently covered a 464 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: word that um you know, like um uh flatulence familiar. 465 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: Do you know there's a word for the actual like 466 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: substance flatal? I did learn something today like the miasma 467 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: is like flatal Uh? What was I talking about? Usurpation? 468 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: It's a usurpation of their things and they would be 469 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: just as mad if it was anything else, they would 470 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: be Alaska might be just as mad if the FEDS 471 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: came in and said we have decided that he let me. 472 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: Let me put this forward because this is a good 473 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: this is a great way to explained this. I think 474 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: let's say the FEDS came Let's say the Feds are 475 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: completely different people and they came forward and said on 476 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: refuge land, you can hunt moose of the drone because 477 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: we hate moose. I think Alaskaa be pissed, right, they'd 478 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: be pissed. Mm hmm. Why is there a hesitation not 479 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: to regard that their practices are working? I mean what why? 480 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: Because is that not talked more about the abundance of 481 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: game there and how the lower forty eight could be 482 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: learned a thing or two? Yes, why why is that not? 483 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: I don't know? Because they're using words like inhumane. They're 484 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,479 Speaker 1: using like even like I even object to their word 485 00:32:52,720 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: of conservationists. Conservationists find it inhumane. Those aren't the those 486 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: are pulled. Those two terms are pulled from completely different dictionaries. 487 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: Conservationists find it inhumane. Conservationists if you like, if you 488 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: look at what a concert, how a conservation is defines 489 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: there concern list. They're not concerned like I don't know 490 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: conservations that are concerned with what's humane. They might be 491 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: concerned with how do we preserve intact ecosystems? That would 492 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: be a thing that I would agree with, But I 493 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: don't think Eldo Leopold woke up in the morning wondering 494 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: what's humane? He woke up in the morning wondering how 495 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: can I save wilderness? Well, I mean wolves, like I 496 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: don't know. You if you want to go on YouTube 497 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: and watch them harrowing ship. You should go watch grizzly 498 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: bears dig black bear cubs out of their dens and 499 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: eat them. Thought about it, they'll curl your hair. Uh 500 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: that's I don't know, is it like, is the prep 501 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: does the bear cub who's getting dug out of his den? 502 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: Is he like, oh, I was nervous because I thought 503 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: it was a person, But it's just a bear eating me. 504 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,479 Speaker 1: I feel better about it now. Or does he think, like, 505 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: my gosh, this is inhumane. I'm just a cute little 506 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: bear cub. It's it's there. They're they're they're combining words 507 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: that don't belong together. If they said regarded by animal 508 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: welfare activists as being inhumane, I like, that's that's good reporting. 509 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: That's great animal well for activists think it's inhumane, Okay, 510 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: at least paint it that way. It's so manipulative. I 511 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: was talking with Jason their day about every time you 512 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: read an article about something you let me rephrase this. 513 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: Remember this conversation with hand. When you're reading articles about 514 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,720 Speaker 1: stuff you have no idea about, you're thankful for the article. 515 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: You're like, oh, that's cool. I didn't understand any of that. Now, 516 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: I understand it pretty good, thank you. But every time 517 00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: you read an article about something that you know well, 518 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: you're pissed about how it was presented, which then makes 519 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,760 Speaker 1: you wonder what you just got wrong? But you didn't 520 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: know enough to know all the ways it was whacked out, 521 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: to which Jason said, I've observed that before and wanted 522 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: to say, so, who who were the forces? Who are 523 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: the interests that we're lobbying for this band in this legislation. 524 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: My guess is it is animal welfare activists pressuring the 525 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: administration and they have it's a be in their bonnet, 526 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: and it's been to be in their bonnet since the 527 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,720 Speaker 1: Obama administration, and they are saying whatever through through however, 528 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: uh whatever, perfectly acceptable practices happen in American politics where 529 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: you back a campaign, you're back it financially, you back 530 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: it with your followers, and then a while later you 531 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: go and say, hey, remember how you know there's we 532 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,439 Speaker 1: got a real problem. Uh. We saw it happen with 533 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: with Murphy, the governor of New Jersey. He ran under 534 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: like he would actually talk about it. He ran a 535 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: campaign and one of the planks in his platform was 536 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: ending the bear hunt in New Jersey? Was that coming 537 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: from his mind? I can't accept that it was. It 538 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: was someone, And I'm not saying that these deals are bad, 539 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:46,919 Speaker 1: because these deals happen in our favor all the time. 540 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: Like I'm on a board, I'm on a I'm a 541 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: board member of TRCP. We don't like, you don't know 542 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: when uses the term like they're proud of it. But 543 00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: TRCP lobbies at a federal level for conservation, So I 544 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: get it. You know, you send your emissaries to politicians 545 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:06,800 Speaker 1: and you're like, here's the thing that burns my ass, 546 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: and then you hope that they serve your bidding. But 547 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: I don't think when when Biden, um, you know it 548 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: is out checking on his camaro and his classified documents 549 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: in his garage, I don't think. I don't think that 550 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: he's like, man, you know what burns my ass is 551 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: the bear digging in the laud someone like planted it. 552 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: Put it, planted it in there mind. And the only 553 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: place they can possibly pull it off is on refuge land. 554 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: So the the bigger intent may have been too band 555 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: bear hunting altogether, but they can't do that. But this 556 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: policy was a scrap to throw. Sure as sure, let 557 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: me say something about baiting bears. Just this is off 558 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: the real topic you're talking to. Baiting bears allowed. Well, 559 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: first of all, anywhere that you can bait bears, it 560 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: is a management tool by the agency to take out 561 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,720 Speaker 1: the number of bears they need to in that region. 562 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: Like heavily forested regions, you can't spot in stock bears 563 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 1: and effectively kill them. So it's a management tool. Number one. 564 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 1: Number two, it allows for selective harvest, like we can target, 565 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: and generally people do this. Generally bear hunters would be 566 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: they would put up a bear bait, they would have 567 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: they would know what bears were coming in, and they 568 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: would select for older mature males to take out. The 569 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: least selective hunting that Clay Newcomb does for bears is 570 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: spotting stock hunting, which would be going to some state 571 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: glassing up a bear on the hillside. You've been hunting 572 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: for three days and you've seen two bears, and you 573 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: go shoot that bear and and then you got a 574 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: ground check them. That's right, and so baiting is actually 575 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: a very high quality management tool for bear managers. For instance, 576 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: in the state of Arkansas twenty two years ago, they 577 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: decided we're going to manage our bears by using bow 578 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,439 Speaker 1: hunters over bait on private land, like very thought out, 579 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 1: very strategic, and they have a quota, and so man 580 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: baiting bears. Don't let anybody Jason Phelps tell you that 581 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: it ain't cool, because it's cool. It's a great way 582 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: to manage bears. And but it's so like this is 583 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: the way I describe it is that in one sentence 584 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: you can can you could relay a story of Hey, 585 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: these crazy rednecks want to put out donuts and kill bears, 586 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: and you if you have no context, no historic context, 587 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: you don't live in bear country, that equates too bad. 588 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: It's about a three or four step conversation for you 589 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: to understand why it's actually really good. Like we have 590 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: expanding black bears are doing better than almost any other 591 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: big game on the continent every yea, every population of 592 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: bears on this black bears are expanding, and we're not 593 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: getting any more wilderness. We're not increasing the amount of habitat, 594 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: we're decreasing it by you know, encroachment of civilization, habitat, fragmentation, 595 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: all this stuff. And so if there was ever a 596 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 1: time in North America for there a need for really 597 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: strategic bear management. It's now and then these folks come 598 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: in thinking that they're doing something good and are actually 599 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: getting it completely wrong, and so it's it's yeah, it's 600 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: just one of these things that's just backwards. But it 601 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: takes it would take somebody listening to you for more 602 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: than one sentence to be like, oh, I get it. Here. 603 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: Here's a full page ad that was just taken out 604 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: in the Seattle Times. A friend of mine sent it 605 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,280 Speaker 1: to me. Full page ad. It's from an organization called 606 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: Washington Washington Wildlife First dot org. Full page ad. It's 607 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: a picture of a wolf. The main text is Washington 608 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: wildlife management is much scary year than the big bad wolf. 609 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: Ask Governor j Insley to make Washington safer for wildlife. 610 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,720 Speaker 1: And they go on to say fish and wildlife policy 611 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 1: has been set by two people who hunt. Now the 612 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: governor is making three appointments to the Fish and Wildlife 613 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: Commission that could transform Washington wildlife management. Please join us 614 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 1: and asking for commissioners who will prioritize conservation over consumption 615 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: and be a voice for the values and interests of 616 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: all Washingtonians. So what you're having here is they want 617 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: to have wildlife commission's inners that are like a zookeeper, 618 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 1: a wild they've commissioner that's an animal rights activist in management. 619 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,359 Speaker 1: At the top of the page there's text, there's like 620 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,879 Speaker 1: the the atrocities beavers are trapped and drowned for their 621 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: for one, let me tell you one thing. Beavers are 622 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 1: not viewers are not hunted. So it's they're they're regulated 623 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: as a fur bear with like very tight restrictions and 624 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: very tight gear restrictions. Okay, but you don't hunt for him. 625 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: That's the only way they're done. Uh. Cougars are hounded 626 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: and shot out of trees. Wolves are slaughtered for the 627 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 1: livestock industry. It's it's just a it's a it's a 628 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: wildly different worldview. And when you get into wildlife management, 629 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: like you have to become a believer in the slippery 630 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,880 Speaker 1: slope because the conversations that are happening out of your view. 631 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: The conversations is we would like to see an end, absolutely, 632 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,879 Speaker 1: we would like to see an end of consumptive use 633 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 1: of wildlife across the board. How do you do that? 634 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: Death by a thousand cuts, because you can still go, 635 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: you can still go to Americans and pull Americans and 636 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: say do you believe in regulated hunting? Do you support 637 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 1: regulated hunting and fishing? Overwhelmingly higher now than it wasn't 638 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: the eighties. We'll say yes. The minute you put particulars 639 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: to it, the number goes down. The minute you put 640 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: particulars to it. You could go and do a pole. 641 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: I haven't seen this one necessarily, but you could go 642 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: do a pole and say, um, do you do support 643 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,320 Speaker 1: regulated hunting and regulated hunting fishing? Yep? Do you support 644 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: the practice of having a dog chase a birden flush 645 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: it so that amand can slaughter with a shotgun? Well? No, 646 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: not that. Would you support someone sitting on the edge 647 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: of a field so that when a deer comes out 648 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 1: to get its first little bite of food in the evening, 649 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: a man you know, like, oh no, that sounds So 650 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: what does that tell you though? Does that tell you that? 651 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,320 Speaker 1: So if if people who have no understanding of hunting 652 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: arts and support of it, then that that means that Okay, 653 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,919 Speaker 1: if you're in support of it, then let then let 654 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 1: the people who actually know what's going on, know what 655 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: it takes to manage wildlife, know what it takes to 656 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 1: manage to land have control of of making rules and regulations. 657 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: I mean, like, what's the point of what? What's your 658 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,799 Speaker 1: takeaway from what you're saying about. There's overwhelming support of 659 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,759 Speaker 1: it until you get to the granular stuff that when 660 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: you go after it, it's easy to go out when 661 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 1: you when you go after it, you go after the 662 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: lowest hanging fruit and the thing that sounds more atrocious 663 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 1: because you're not going to be able to go after 664 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 1: the thing in and of itself. Washington eventually, will California 665 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: eventually will California is based there. I had a very 666 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: high years ago, I had a very high level person 667 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: at California Fishing Game predicted me that they would lose 668 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 1: the whole thing in twenty five years. He thought it 669 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 1: was gonna be archery, next the whole thing, eventually the 670 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,879 Speaker 1: whole he said from where he was sitting that day, said, 671 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: I think we'll lose the whole thing into only five years. 672 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 1: Archer will be the next thing we lose. Then it 673 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: will be a thing about, you know, the maiming of 674 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:12,879 Speaker 1: or humanity of it. There's there there's a justifiable there's 675 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: there's a position when it comes to these debates that 676 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 1: that I think that very intelligent, well meaning people put 677 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:27,919 Speaker 1: this idea forth that hunters need to aggressively police their 678 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: own actions to make it that there is no low 679 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,319 Speaker 1: hanging fruit, that we would self eliminate all the low 680 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: hanging fruit. That you'd say, Okay, I'm gonna quit hound 681 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 1: hunting because that gives us all a black eye. Okay, um, 682 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,959 Speaker 1: I'm gonna quit. You should quit baiting because that gives 683 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 1: us all a black eye. And they think that you 684 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 1: would clean it up so much that an animal rights 685 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: person would look and say to themselves, well, now the 686 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,920 Speaker 1: they've made themselves as peers, the driven snow, and I 687 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 1: have no more desire to mess with them, because I 688 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:13,240 Speaker 1: really was just interested in trapping. Um. There are people 689 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 1: that think that that's that that that's the approach that 690 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,719 Speaker 1: you should be. That you should never um display talk 691 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: about anything. If you take a picture of a you 692 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: and a deer you killed, you should look really sad. 693 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,279 Speaker 1: That you should never have bloody hands, You should never 694 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: drive with a with a deer in the back of 695 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: your truck that someone might see. You should never do 696 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: any practice that might irritate animal rights activists, and that 697 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,760 Speaker 1: then we'll live in perpetuity for the rest of our lives. 698 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,960 Speaker 1: That's like I I regard it as a like, uh, 699 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 1: it's not it's not a nonsensical position. I just think 700 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 1: that I've come to think more and more that that's 701 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,479 Speaker 1: wrong and stupid. Yeah, there after the low hanging fruit 702 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,919 Speaker 1: because it's but as soon as that's gone, the next 703 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: level they're never going to go away. You know. It 704 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,719 Speaker 1: feels like it's really it's an issue of identity, like 705 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,239 Speaker 1: in a real big macro scale. It's like who are 706 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: we as really even as Americans? And it's like, this 707 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,840 Speaker 1: is who we are, and this is our track record 708 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:25,280 Speaker 1: with wildlife. We have the most abundant big game wildlife 709 00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: conservation practices in the history of the planet. Our our 710 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,799 Speaker 1: success has been so good here and this is who 711 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:37,840 Speaker 1: we are. This we're hunters, we eat meat, We deeply 712 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: value culturally these animals. And it's like they're trying to 713 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 1: take that away from us because they don't understand it. 714 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 1: There's a there's a viewpoint I have that that I 715 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 1: almost shouldn't make. Is gonna just in the in the 716 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 1: in being um just in the spirit of honesty on 717 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: my good there's an argument like in the abortion debate. 718 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,720 Speaker 1: There's in the in the abortion debate, there's an argument 719 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: like like hands off, like hands off my body, right, 720 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: Like don't tell me what to do with myself. Okay, 721 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,920 Speaker 1: it's one of the leading arguments to be like it's 722 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,239 Speaker 1: it's like when it comes to contraception, when it comes 723 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: to abortion, there's there's an an argument that people make 724 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: that that's me and that's my business. And it's sort 725 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 1: of like it's like ending the argument. You're trying to 726 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,719 Speaker 1: end the argument was saying like it's me, don't tell 727 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: me what to do because like I live in America, 728 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,200 Speaker 1: and I have uh self agency to make certain decisions, 729 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,320 Speaker 1: and these are my innatible rights and and that's the 730 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: end of it. I'm not here to like hash this 731 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,920 Speaker 1: out with you for a long time. Right, it's a 732 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 1: way of handling it. I sometimes I feel that that 733 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,880 Speaker 1: a little bit, like I feel that there is a legacy, 734 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: there's a legacy of hunting and fishing and interaction with 735 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,000 Speaker 1: while life in America that has made it in some 736 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:16,320 Speaker 1: respects the philosophical um the spiritual property of a discipline 737 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,160 Speaker 1: in the lifestyle. I mean, there's a discipline in the 738 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:24,520 Speaker 1: lifestyle that has a established a sense of ownership over 739 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:30,839 Speaker 1: a renewable resource, and and in all fairness, to have 740 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: someone who doesn't interact with the wildlife, who doesn't understand 741 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,920 Speaker 1: it well, who views it only as a thing that 742 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,719 Speaker 1: they watch on television or that they see out of 743 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 1: their window when they drive through Yellowstone once in their life. Like, 744 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,080 Speaker 1: I feel like their imposition on this whole thing that 745 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,760 Speaker 1: that they're an intruder into a world that they don't understand. 746 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,080 Speaker 1: And it would be like these two different things. If 747 00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna like there, there's two different viewpoints take take it. 748 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,239 Speaker 1: In voting, some people think that just your mere presence 749 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:08,040 Speaker 1: in America gives you the right to vote here legally 750 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,680 Speaker 1: or not. Your mere presence in America should allow you 751 00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,480 Speaker 1: to cast a ballot. There's other people that think that 752 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,160 Speaker 1: will know. I think that you should be a citizen. 753 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,000 Speaker 1: I think that you should not be a felon. I 754 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 1: think that you should have a address by which I 755 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,960 Speaker 1: can identify that you are who you say you are, 756 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,440 Speaker 1: and that under those conditions you should be able to 757 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: pick the leaders of the country. Two different worldviews, Like 758 00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 1: when when it comes to fish and wildlife, I'm more like, 759 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,319 Speaker 1: instinctively I'm more like the person who would want you 760 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,600 Speaker 1: to have to jump through more hurdles and understand what 761 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 1: you're talking about and know the history before you weigh 762 00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,200 Speaker 1: in on ship. M hm. But it doesn't really work 763 00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,839 Speaker 1: that way. Well, going back to the Washington Commissioners thing, 764 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:04,400 Speaker 1: Jason was telling us about how there's this idea that 765 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,480 Speaker 1: the commissioners, the people that are making wildlife based decisions, 766 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,560 Speaker 1: would be outside of the historic genre of people that 767 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,040 Speaker 1: we pick, like like, you know, let's put an animal 768 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 1: rights activist on the game commission just so that we 769 00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 1: have this diverse spread of people. You could do that, 770 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,919 Speaker 1: but that's not the way we've done it. And what 771 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,759 Speaker 1: we've done has been highly successful. So I think that's 772 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,160 Speaker 1: the statement that you're making is like, yeah, we could 773 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,239 Speaker 1: like totally change the way that we're doing this, but 774 00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,880 Speaker 1: if you want to do something that's predictable and stable 775 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,040 Speaker 1: that has worked in general, and and and and some 776 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: people have bones to pick with their wildlife agency, which 777 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,440 Speaker 1: is kind of I mean, yeah, whatever, but in general, 778 00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:50,600 Speaker 1: macro squad macro scale wildlife management and this continent has 779 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,600 Speaker 1: been phenomenal, Like since the Garden of Eden, it hadn't 780 00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,600 Speaker 1: been this good and so I think what we're saying 781 00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,080 Speaker 1: is that, yeah, you could do it that way, that's 782 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,640 Speaker 1: way different and what we've done has worked extremely well. 783 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,040 Speaker 1: And you know, typically guys that are on commissions that 784 00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:10,240 Speaker 1: are making decisions, or people that are historically culturally vested 785 00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:15,480 Speaker 1: in wildlife from a hunter manager, you know position. I 786 00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,440 Speaker 1: think that Jason was talking about this the dr and night, 787 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,480 Speaker 1: and you should make your own point about it. But 788 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:25,440 Speaker 1: there's this idea. You live in Washington, there's an idea 789 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,319 Speaker 1: that you're gonna throw out a desire to throw out 790 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:34,359 Speaker 1: a very effective system as measured by how successful it's been, 791 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: um and replace it with not quite sure. Yeah, I 792 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:45,120 Speaker 1: mean being from Washington and kind of seeing what's happening. Um. 793 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,480 Speaker 1: You know, most of North American's big game is managed 794 00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,640 Speaker 1: by the North American model of wildlife. And one of 795 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:54,880 Speaker 1: our commissioners might not be quoted perfectly, but to this sense, 796 00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,520 Speaker 1: it no longer works because it does. It no longer 797 00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:03,440 Speaker 1: has an emotional or social um emphasis there. There's no 798 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,239 Speaker 1: way to now categorize and balance that with the the 799 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:08,960 Speaker 1: idea of how do we manage the wild life? We 800 00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,040 Speaker 1: need to look at now the the social impact that 801 00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,880 Speaker 1: these seasons these you know, quotas, whatever they may be, 802 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 1: and then we also need to look at the social um. 803 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,960 Speaker 1: So it's emotional and social components are not included in 804 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,960 Speaker 1: that model. Therefore we just need to undo everything. But 805 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,239 Speaker 1: they don't have a model to replace it with. So 806 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,920 Speaker 1: now it's like they've now used this no model to 807 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,400 Speaker 1: go to that that just remove spring bear season. So 808 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,319 Speaker 1: it's just it's just low hanging fruit instantly being taken off. 809 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,799 Speaker 1: And these I don't this might be a point that's 810 00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,640 Speaker 1: a little bit outside, but these people are so uneducated 811 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,480 Speaker 1: on our hunting seasons. You know, we we just went 812 00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,200 Speaker 1: through this whole um spring bear ondoing that we've had forever. 813 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,719 Speaker 1: One of the new commissioners, I don't know which one 814 00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,400 Speaker 1: it was, I thought at the same time, we should 815 00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,520 Speaker 1: take out spring wild turkey seasons because if a spring 816 00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,759 Speaker 1: bearer comes out of his den lethargic and is more 817 00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,319 Speaker 1: vulnerable than by all means of spring turkey had to 818 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,200 Speaker 1: be And that's that's what we're dealing with. Like we're 819 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,160 Speaker 1: to the point where these people have no understanding on 820 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,160 Speaker 1: why seasons are set when they're set, and why we 821 00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,680 Speaker 1: pursume at certain times. And you're just to the point 822 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,560 Speaker 1: of just in that article alludes to it like they're 823 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:22,400 Speaker 1: gonna replace three commissioners because some of our UM commissioners 824 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,400 Speaker 1: that did have fishing and hunting backgrounds were so frustrated 825 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,160 Speaker 1: with some of the recent stuff. They've all resigned and 826 00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,600 Speaker 1: it's like, well, now we're going to go from you know, 827 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,719 Speaker 1: what was kind of a mixed board to just a 828 00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,840 Speaker 1: lopsided Um. Yeah, you guys, E want to like Pamela 829 00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,120 Speaker 1: Anderson on your commission. It's not gonna be good. Uh, 830 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,120 Speaker 1: but I'll take the task. Even what he said about 831 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,440 Speaker 1: the he probably doesn't know anything about the North American 832 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,319 Speaker 1: model of while the conservation because him saying that there's 833 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:52,800 Speaker 1: no social and cultural component. It's made up of seven tenants. 834 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,440 Speaker 1: One of the tenants is democratic allocation. That feels pretty 835 00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:02,920 Speaker 1: cultural and social to me, Democratic allocation of resources, a 836 00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:07,440 Speaker 1: waste component. There's a tenant about waste non frivolous use. 837 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:13,279 Speaker 1: There's a tenant about international cooperation that all feels very 838 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:18,000 Speaker 1: cultural and social to me. It's it's it's it's like 839 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:26,839 Speaker 1: he he's a technic thing he doesn't understand. Yeah, hey, 840 00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:34,160 Speaker 1: what's the what's the response for for hunters? To this, Steve, Like, 841 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:39,560 Speaker 1: so what we're talking about, We're we're talking about these 842 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 1: big things that are going on not totally outside of 843 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:48,279 Speaker 1: our control. But what's the message to the hunting community? 844 00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:59,439 Speaker 1: You know, my mind remains unchanged. Um, the two party system, 845 00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:06,239 Speaker 1: it's kind of miserable for hunters. Uh. There needs we need, 846 00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,560 Speaker 1: like a new one that's pro hunting and pro habitat. 847 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:16,440 Speaker 1: You're talking you gotta strategically shop. You get culture, you 848 00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,360 Speaker 1: get hunting defense and cultural defense from the right, and 849 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,080 Speaker 1: a lot of times you get pretty good environmental habitat 850 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,440 Speaker 1: stuff from the left, and there's nowhere to turn. It's 851 00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,759 Speaker 1: just like it's like who do you feel like? You know, 852 00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:34,440 Speaker 1: it's it's who at any given moment is less likely 853 00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:38,480 Speaker 1: to screw you mm hmm, And to be honest with you, 854 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,520 Speaker 1: like right now, like with cultural stuff going on, like 855 00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:46,000 Speaker 1: the right right now is a lot of elements of 856 00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:47,880 Speaker 1: the right right now are less likely to screw you. 857 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:53,520 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. It's like becoming such a clown car mm hmm. 858 00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:00,279 Speaker 1: I would with some of the stuff, like like you know, 859 00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,719 Speaker 1: I remember Insley got in and he was one of 860 00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:03,960 Speaker 1: the first, Like I said, he's like one of the 861 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:08,279 Speaker 1: first guys to bail on the deal. But in my 862 00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:12,160 Speaker 1: head I already knew, like with already knew with like 863 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,319 Speaker 1: certain wildlife issues. I was like, man, not the guy 864 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:21,439 Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, extreme, but probably has a great habitat record, 865 00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:27,320 Speaker 1: I guarantee it. He Yeah, like the amount of tax 866 00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,800 Speaker 1: just to save some you know, the orcas, and it's 867 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,040 Speaker 1: it's nuts. Like I mean, it's it's a good it's 868 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:33,920 Speaker 1: a good idea, but it's just like the at the 869 00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,760 Speaker 1: expense of of you know, Washington citizens. He's I would 870 00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:43,480 Speaker 1: consider extreme. Like you know, I think, what is it 871 00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:46,400 Speaker 1: a National Wild Turkey Federation. Isn't it defend the habitat, 872 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,320 Speaker 1: defend the hunt. Isn't that they're like part of their 873 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:55,320 Speaker 1: slogan taglines, do that, I'll send n WTF a bunch 874 00:57:55,320 --> 00:58:00,040 Speaker 1: of money. It's like here, here's what I was is 875 00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,480 Speaker 1: gonna say at a at a more granular? Can I 876 00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,560 Speaker 1: answer one more time? Because I just thought have a 877 00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,080 Speaker 1: better one, not better, not better than defend the habitat, 878 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,200 Speaker 1: defend the hunt. Think about what's built into t RCPs 879 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:21,280 Speaker 1: thing guaranteeing Americans quality places to what hunt fish, hunting fish. 880 00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,120 Speaker 1: So I shouldn't say like I'm the one that's gotta 881 00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:24,800 Speaker 1: figured out a lot of people gotta figured out. Defend 882 00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:29,960 Speaker 1: the habitat, defend the hunt guarantee Americans quality places, not 883 00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:38,400 Speaker 1: shipped up places, quality places to hunt fish. So the 884 00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,240 Speaker 1: the public sector is all over this. Aspects of the 885 00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:46,040 Speaker 1: public are sorry. Aspects of the NGO, you know, the 886 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,960 Speaker 1: NGO private sector is all over this. But in the 887 00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:53,480 Speaker 1: in the political atmosphere, it's like you're always someone's always 888 00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,640 Speaker 1: screwing you and in some respects always helping you out. 889 00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:02,800 Speaker 1: Some people are always helping you out on somethingunn you 890 00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,000 Speaker 1: happen to help a finger. Let me let me say 891 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,280 Speaker 1: this because this is I wanted to hear what you 892 00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:08,720 Speaker 1: had to say about that, and that was like a 893 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,760 Speaker 1: like a I would say a big macro like call 894 00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,920 Speaker 1: to action for people and give them some understanding. If 895 00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,400 Speaker 1: we were to have a family meeting as hunters, if 896 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,840 Speaker 1: we were all like, okay, boys, come inside, everybody's sent 897 00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,400 Speaker 1: the couch. We gotta have a little talk, I would 898 00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,280 Speaker 1: say what we need to do is we've got to 899 00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,000 Speaker 1: Maybe this is overdone, but I think there's things that 900 00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:34,720 Speaker 1: I can do that would in my own life that 901 00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,720 Speaker 1: would help me be better. But we really have to unify. 902 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,760 Speaker 1: And that's an overly stated word, but what that means 903 00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:46,840 Speaker 1: is when you tell your kid how dumb crossbow hunters are, 904 00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:52,560 Speaker 1: you are? No, I pointed Steve when I said, Bridget, 905 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,320 Speaker 1: when you tell your something, no, when you there's things 906 00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,960 Speaker 1: that we do all the time that infuse division inside 907 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,080 Speaker 1: of people that are really on our team, Like and 908 01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:04,800 Speaker 1: I've experienced that massively inside of when I ran Bear 909 01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Hunting magazine. I mean it was like just baiting bears 910 01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,080 Speaker 1: and all this controversial stuff. All I'm saying is, if 911 01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,880 Speaker 1: there's somebody that does something different than you, because I 912 01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,240 Speaker 1: gave ron t you you do stuff different in Montana 913 01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,040 Speaker 1: than I do in Arkansas. And the way I view 914 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,720 Speaker 1: hunting is different than the guys out west. You're treading 915 01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:26,920 Speaker 1: into dangerous territory right now, we're going do you think, so, 916 01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,600 Speaker 1: oh yeah, you are? Well, I I just I'm just saying, 917 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:35,520 Speaker 1: don't we're so divided amongst ourselves. Like I'm okay with 918 01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,000 Speaker 1: the way that Jason hunts, and if it's inside the 919 01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:44,560 Speaker 1: laws and the and the boundaries of legality where I live, 920 01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,600 Speaker 1: and I can run run bears with hounds, and I 921 01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:51,360 Speaker 1: can trap, and I can you know, shoot squirrels to 922 01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,960 Speaker 1: the end of February and then like just be okay 923 01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:55,800 Speaker 1: with that, Just be like, good job, Clay. You go, 924 01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,919 Speaker 1: here's where, Here's where you're you're here's where you're you're 925 01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:05,600 Speaker 1: you're playing checkers when you should be playing chess. Game managers, 926 01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,280 Speaker 1: even if there was no radical animal rights agenda whatsoever 927 01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:13,920 Speaker 1: in this country, game managers would still need to wrestle 928 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:22,640 Speaker 1: with emerging technologies you have. You would agree that wildlife 929 01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:27,400 Speaker 1: is a finite resource, okay, right, wilde a finite resource. 930 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:35,800 Speaker 1: You want to maximize people's you want to maximize your 931 01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:45,640 Speaker 1: populations opportunity to try to get a share a portion 932 01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:52,600 Speaker 1: of this finite resource. In order to maximize participation and opportunity, 933 01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,760 Speaker 1: you need to do things that control efficacy rights. Just 934 01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:59,240 Speaker 1: I know where you're going with this. Well, let's say 935 01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:02,840 Speaker 1: people don't. Let's say you have five years from now. 936 01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,040 Speaker 1: Let's say you have a population of you have a 937 01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:09,760 Speaker 1: mountain range, and and you're you're very well intentioned game 938 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,200 Speaker 1: mant pro hunting game managers are like, we can pull 939 01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,280 Speaker 1: a hundred elk off that mountain, no problem, hunterd elk 940 01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:18,000 Speaker 1: off that mountain. There's a let's say I'm I'm using 941 01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:22,560 Speaker 1: not real numbers, but there's a thousand elk on that mountain. Okay, 942 01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:25,040 Speaker 1: that mountain has historically had about a thousand elk on. 943 01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:30,000 Speaker 1: It can hold about a thousand elk. Um, we can 944 01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:33,560 Speaker 1: kill a hundred in the fall, and you know what, 945 01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:35,400 Speaker 1: You're gonna have a thousand elk on that mountain again 946 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,200 Speaker 1: next year. That's just how it goes. You could kill 947 01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,640 Speaker 1: none and you're gonna have a thousand elk on that mountain. 948 01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:42,200 Speaker 1: You could kill a hundred and you're gonna have a 949 01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:43,919 Speaker 1: thousand elk on that mountain. Because that mountain is gonna 950 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:48,480 Speaker 1: hold about a thousand elk, it gets much more. They 951 01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,400 Speaker 1: tend to they tend to starve off, it gets much more. 952 01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,880 Speaker 1: Predation shoots through the roof whatever. It's always got about 953 01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:57,920 Speaker 1: a thousand. We're gonna kill a hundred. Now we could say, okay, 954 01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:00,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna let we're gonna kill a hundred. You can 955 01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,760 Speaker 1: use a helicopter, you can use thermal, you can use 956 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:10,880 Speaker 1: night vision explosives. Okay, how many tags are you going 957 01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:17,240 Speaker 1: to give out? Hundred tags? Probably because everybody's going to 958 01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,640 Speaker 1: get the elk. Or you say, here's what we're gonna 959 01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,760 Speaker 1: do instead, you can use a bow, you can't hunt 960 01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:27,360 Speaker 1: at night. How many tags are we going to give 961 01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:33,360 Speaker 1: out a thousand to kill a hundred? No, you know 962 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:38,840 Speaker 1: what you're gonna give out is you're gonna have success rates, 963 01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:45,160 Speaker 1: so you can give out five hundred tags. That is why, like, 964 01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, deeper into the weeds than what you're proposing 965 01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,320 Speaker 1: that you're proposing of. You're you're tiptoeing around, proposing a 966 01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:00,280 Speaker 1: philosophy in which everything is great and cool. And just 967 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,800 Speaker 1: because I hunt out of a helicopter with night vision, 968 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,840 Speaker 1: I think I think he's taken the extreme of what 969 01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:12,000 Speaker 1: I was even you tiptoed into dangerous territory. This is 970 01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,200 Speaker 1: all I was saying, was like, don't hate a guy 971 01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:18,920 Speaker 1: because he uses hounds. It's just like historic use practice. 972 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,400 Speaker 1: Just be okay with it. You don't have to kill 973 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,120 Speaker 1: a mountain lion over hounds, but that's the way we 974 01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:28,280 Speaker 1: do it. If you're not defending your point's well taken up. 975 01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,600 Speaker 1: But you can even shoot holes in my point. Here's unification, Steve, 976 01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,480 Speaker 1: We're on the same side, bro the cross bowl thing 977 01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:37,760 Speaker 1: kind of because here's the deal. When you get an 978 01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:42,240 Speaker 1: individual I'll argue policy a crossbows. Well, I'm not saying 979 01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:46,960 Speaker 1: that in Montana. Yeah, right now, archery season in Montana, 980 01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:49,720 Speaker 1: the state where I love archery season Montana, you can't 981 01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:54,680 Speaker 1: ult with a cross bowl. However, crossbow hunters be like, 982 01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,160 Speaker 1: why are you discriminated against us? We count No, you 983 01:04:57,160 --> 01:04:59,240 Speaker 1: can hunt with a cross bowl. You can hunt with 984 01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:03,640 Speaker 1: a cross bowl more than you can't. You can hunt 985 01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:07,680 Speaker 1: with a crossbow all through spring bear season, no problem, 986 01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:11,000 Speaker 1: six weeks of general firearm you can hunt with a crossbow. 987 01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:15,520 Speaker 1: Don't say you can't hunt with a crossbow. You can't 988 01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:20,240 Speaker 1: hunt with a crossbow during archery season, just as I 989 01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,439 Speaker 1: can't hunt with a gun during archery season. I would 990 01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:24,960 Speaker 1: never come and say there's no chance to hunt with 991 01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,280 Speaker 1: a gun. They would be like, well, no, sir, there's 992 01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,760 Speaker 1: a lot of chances to hunt with a gun. You 993 01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,680 Speaker 1: hunt with a gun all through spring bear season, you know, 994 01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:35,040 Speaker 1: with a gonna all through general firearm season. You can 995 01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:37,240 Speaker 1: hunt with a gun all through the extended seasons. But 996 01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,560 Speaker 1: you can't hunt with a gun during archery season. A 997 01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,400 Speaker 1: crossbow you can have had it, you know, hut your 998 01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,160 Speaker 1: ass off with a crossbow. You just want to do it. 999 01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:52,200 Speaker 1: The one time you can't who doesn't If you want 1000 01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:53,880 Speaker 1: to ask any individual, be like, would do you do 1001 01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:55,480 Speaker 1: you think it should be cool? Like should we let 1002 01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,280 Speaker 1: you hunt with your gun during archery? I'd be like, 1003 01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:00,800 Speaker 1: you mean, just me sure, I think that's a I 1004 01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:07,600 Speaker 1: think that'd be a phenomenal idea. Yeah, great point. But 1005 01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,840 Speaker 1: here's where my point falls apart. Just in all fairness, 1006 01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:15,960 Speaker 1: I think that management agencies need to protect traditional use practices. 1007 01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,280 Speaker 1: Someone might say why would Someone might point and be like, 1008 01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:24,120 Speaker 1: one of the oldest strategies that we know was occurring 1009 01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:28,000 Speaker 1: on this continent. Two old strategies were the buffalo jump 1010 01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:35,680 Speaker 1: and fire. You would light ship on fire and kill 1011 01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,400 Speaker 1: the stuff that ran out. So if you want to 1012 01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:42,240 Speaker 1: defend traditional use practices, are you saying that hunters should 1013 01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:49,000 Speaker 1: have uh carte block to go and burn thickets to 1014 01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:54,320 Speaker 1: flush out game. So it all gets a little complicated. 1015 01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:56,200 Speaker 1: In traditional use, you have to like draw line in 1016 01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,040 Speaker 1: the sand, like on this day in nine seven is 1017 01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's like you couldn't you can, I mean 1018 01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,040 Speaker 1: go back as far as you can, and then with 1019 01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,800 Speaker 1: the you know, with things improving, it's like traditional use, 1020 01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:10,360 Speaker 1: where do you draw the line a cree beaver hunting 1021 01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:15,680 Speaker 1: strategy was that you just remove the damn, drain the 1022 01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:20,600 Speaker 1: whole pond out, and then go around to all the 1023 01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:22,680 Speaker 1: dens and stuff and dig them out and club the beavers. 1024 01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:26,960 Speaker 1: In most dates now, especially states that have a deep 1025 01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:32,320 Speaker 1: tradition of contemporary fur trapping, you can't destroy the damn 1026 01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:39,000 Speaker 1: because you're chopping down the apple tree. You want people, 1027 01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:40,440 Speaker 1: if you want people to be able to pick the apples, 1028 01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:45,400 Speaker 1: don't cut the damn tree down. So all this stuff 1029 01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:57,240 Speaker 1: is a little tricky. Speaking, which the second thing I 1030 01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:01,960 Speaker 1: wanted to cover. It was a great intro. That's a 1031 01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,880 Speaker 1: great intro to the podcast. Welcome to the met Eater podcast. 1032 01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:09,360 Speaker 1: I was on I was hacking on Michigan because our 1033 01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,560 Speaker 1: our our friend and Zuck I wasn't hacking on Michigan. 1034 01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:16,800 Speaker 1: Our friend of Michigan. Guys are Matt's personal MAT's personal friend. 1035 01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:19,760 Speaker 1: That's how I know guys are Matt Cook's friend. Was 1036 01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,759 Speaker 1: sent me a note. Uh he was very concerned about 1037 01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:27,320 Speaker 1: the fall turkey hunt in Michigan and I had spent 1038 01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:30,200 Speaker 1: some time. I didn't criticize the state. I said I 1039 01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:33,120 Speaker 1: would love to hear the justification for why they're there 1040 01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,439 Speaker 1: having it be that that one guy can in in 1041 01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:40,200 Speaker 1: in a certain area in Michigan, that you could that 1042 01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:42,960 Speaker 1: you could buy tag after tag after tag in the 1043 01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:48,120 Speaker 1: fall and kill turkeys and now that but shoot hands. Okay, 1044 01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,040 Speaker 1: basically got areas where you can just keep buying them 1045 01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:53,760 Speaker 1: till they're you know, and some guy he knows guy 1046 01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,519 Speaker 1: killed five gobblers off public way and fall turkey hunt. 1047 01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:59,160 Speaker 1: And I was saying, I will say not that it 1048 01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:02,000 Speaker 1: was wrong. I was saying, I think that people need 1049 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,240 Speaker 1: to be cautious with turkeys. And I think that if 1050 01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:12,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna look and be like like and and let 1051 01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:13,599 Speaker 1: me back up once, like a guy wrote in all 1052 01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,360 Speaker 1: bent out of shape, like, how can you support the 1053 01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:17,920 Speaker 1: shooting at does and fawns but you don't support the 1054 01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,360 Speaker 1: shooting at hands. That's not my gripe. My gripe, isn't that? 1055 01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:25,080 Speaker 1: My statement was simply that that as we're as we 1056 01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:28,960 Speaker 1: know from Missouri, as we know from Kentucky, as we 1057 01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:34,040 Speaker 1: know from South Carolina, you can't take turkeys for granted, 1058 01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:39,120 Speaker 1: talk about what's going on when you're at Yeah, in Arkansas, 1059 01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:43,360 Speaker 1: we've lost in the last ten to fifteen years, we've 1060 01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:47,280 Speaker 1: lost sixty of our population. So when I was in 1061 01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:51,639 Speaker 1: high school, you know, twenty years old, you know, twenty 1062 01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:55,800 Speaker 1: years ago, we had a pretty great turkey hunting and 1063 01:09:55,880 --> 01:10:00,839 Speaker 1: today it is Arkansas turkey hunting is very, very difficult, 1064 01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:05,599 Speaker 1: and it's uh, it's death by a thousand cuts in 1065 01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:09,759 Speaker 1: terms of why turkey populations are declining. But it's happening 1066 01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:12,920 Speaker 1: all over the South, the Southeast, and there's guys that are, 1067 01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,679 Speaker 1: you know, dedicating their careers to try and understand why. 1068 01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,400 Speaker 1: But they're just a you know, a ground nesting bird man. 1069 01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:21,439 Speaker 1: You can't can't put your faith in him because they're 1070 01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:25,760 Speaker 1: extremely vulnerable. Yeah, ground clad said one has never falling 1071 01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,080 Speaker 1: love with the ground nesting learning that from my grandpa, 1072 01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,479 Speaker 1: who was a who was a quail hunter. For really 1073 01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:34,519 Speaker 1: it's kind of a joke, but my grandfather was a 1074 01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:38,720 Speaker 1: big time bird dog trainer, Bob White quail man. In 1075 01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:41,880 Speaker 1: the last twenty years of his life that I spent 1076 01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:46,880 Speaker 1: with him, he bemoaned the passing of the Bob White 1077 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,519 Speaker 1: quail I mean we went quail hunting literally knowing we 1078 01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,840 Speaker 1: weren't gonna find quail, but he just wanted to work 1079 01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:54,000 Speaker 1: as dogs and we wanted to go through the motions, 1080 01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,200 Speaker 1: and so I quail hunted my whole youth, like basically 1081 01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,519 Speaker 1: knowing we were after something that for the most part 1082 01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,800 Speaker 1: didn't exist. And his stories of man Clay at one 1083 01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,800 Speaker 1: time found nine covees on that single hill right there, 1084 01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:10,000 Speaker 1: and today there's none. And so you know that kind 1085 01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,840 Speaker 1: of stuf. Then you go and say, well, why is that? 1086 01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:17,400 Speaker 1: And the answer is where do I begin? Right? Fire 1087 01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:22,679 Speaker 1: ants changing at your cultural practices, um changing the fire 1088 01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:28,840 Speaker 1: management practices, cheat, grass invade. You know, it's like all 1089 01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,160 Speaker 1: that ship even if you removed one and probably still 1090 01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:34,400 Speaker 1: be happening. But with turkeys, you have like there's this 1091 01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:37,160 Speaker 1: thing with there's this phenomenon like the founder effect. I 1092 01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:38,840 Speaker 1: shouldn't call a phennen because it might be a sort 1093 01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:42,400 Speaker 1: of like a somewhat of a scientific principle. The founder effect. 1094 01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:45,080 Speaker 1: When you bring it, when you introduce a new species 1095 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:50,559 Speaker 1: on a landscape, it kicks ass for a couple of reasons. 1096 01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:55,280 Speaker 1: They're exploiting. They're exploiting a resource base that hasn't been touched, 1097 01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,439 Speaker 1: so they're gonna like fill a niche, and the niche 1098 01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:03,160 Speaker 1: hasn't been manipulated, had have been Uh, it hasn't been occupied, 1099 01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:07,400 Speaker 1: but it hasn't been exploited at all. Okay, So let's 1100 01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:09,479 Speaker 1: say you were to go to some landscape that had 1101 01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,960 Speaker 1: never had you, some prey rich landscape that had never 1102 01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,519 Speaker 1: had a coyote on it, and you're like, it just mages. 1103 01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,040 Speaker 1: Some magical island full of rabbits and ground nesting birds, 1104 01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:19,559 Speaker 1: never had a kyote on it. You dumped some kyote 1105 01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:21,280 Speaker 1: flues on it. What do you imagine is gonna happen? 1106 01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:26,320 Speaker 1: Booming popular shiploads of food. The rabbits have never seen 1107 01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:29,280 Speaker 1: it before, and they're like, hey, what's that? And it 1108 01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:33,680 Speaker 1: gets eaten. UM ship that eats coyotes hasn't figured out 1109 01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:36,200 Speaker 1: how to exploit, just as the rabbits haven't figured out 1110 01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:41,960 Speaker 1: how to um prevent themselves from They haven't learned to like, 1111 01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,840 Speaker 1: not lay out in the open at night, because they've 1112 01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:47,280 Speaker 1: never needed to worry about laying out in the open 1113 01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:48,880 Speaker 1: at night. But now they've got to realize, Man, you 1114 01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:50,519 Speaker 1: can't lay out in the open at night anymore, that's 1115 01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:53,320 Speaker 1: for sure. And something that might be like a kyot 1116 01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:55,680 Speaker 1: would be good to eat. He hasn't figured out how 1117 01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:57,800 Speaker 1: to deal with them yet. Maybe it's kind of hard 1118 01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,000 Speaker 1: to kill. But if we put our heads to get 1119 01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:01,720 Speaker 1: will figure out how to kill Kyles and we'll eat him. 1120 01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:03,680 Speaker 1: But they haven't figured that out yet. So here the 1121 01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:07,839 Speaker 1: coyotes are eating tons of rabbits, tons of ground nesting birds, 1122 01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:11,759 Speaker 1: having tons of babies. Nothing's killing their babies, and you'd 1123 01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:15,719 Speaker 1: be like, man, this is the Kyle hunting paradise. Fast 1124 01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:20,080 Speaker 1: forward twenty years. They've clipped, they've pulled off the cream 1125 01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:23,440 Speaker 1: of the crop of the rabbits. Rabbits have gotten very paranoid. 1126 01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:29,320 Speaker 1: They conduct their daily existence very differently. Some other big 1127 01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,639 Speaker 1: bad thing has been like you know, uh, I figured 1128 01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:34,080 Speaker 1: out that I can go out to that place and 1129 01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:36,040 Speaker 1: killed shipload of kyotes and I like to eat coyotes, 1130 01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:41,320 Speaker 1: right and over time, it's not that way turkeys were reintroduced, 1131 01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:43,959 Speaker 1: but it's like they were so eliminated from the landscape. 1132 01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:46,000 Speaker 1: The turkeys when they were reintroduced, they had a new 1133 01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:49,680 Speaker 1: founder effect and everybody, like every state that went through 1134 01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:51,639 Speaker 1: it had the same thing, like my dad, Like they 1135 01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:53,439 Speaker 1: happened in Michigan right when I moved out of Michigan. 1136 01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,200 Speaker 1: I left Michigan and I finished school and left Michigan, 1137 01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:02,120 Speaker 1: and my dad started just slain in turkeys he didn't 1138 01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:06,040 Speaker 1: even need to do anything mhm right, And it was 1139 01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:09,439 Speaker 1: just this came in and they were they were clueless, 1140 01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:12,360 Speaker 1: exploding in numbers, and everybody got to be like, this 1141 01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:16,000 Speaker 1: is just how it is now. We have shiploads of 1142 01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:19,559 Speaker 1: turkeys all the time, kill them all. And my my 1143 01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:22,560 Speaker 1: only thing with that stuff is like I would be cautious. 1144 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,879 Speaker 1: M I would be cautious. And when they when Michigan, 1145 01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:32,000 Speaker 1: the representative from Michigan Fishing Game responded, and they're viewing 1146 01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:35,240 Speaker 1: it like they're viewing these high take areas, they're viewing 1147 01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:39,880 Speaker 1: it as population control. And then you'd be like, well, 1148 01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:44,240 Speaker 1: who the hell is saying there's too many agricultural interests? 1149 01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:47,640 Speaker 1: Not me. I've never had a turkey hunter bitch to 1150 01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:51,200 Speaker 1: me about too many turkeys. Ever, So when someone says 1151 01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:56,040 Speaker 1: turkeys are overpopulated, I'm like, by whose measure? Not mine? Yeah, 1152 01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:59,800 Speaker 1: so just be careful. That's mostly take on him, and 1153 01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:03,360 Speaker 1: it's it's like, it's not immoral, it's just like be careful. 1154 01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:05,839 Speaker 1: It's really interesting because when you have these big booms 1155 01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:10,960 Speaker 1: of of well, particularly with turkeys the seventies, eighties, and nineties, 1156 01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:13,679 Speaker 1: there's a thirty year period which is a pretty long 1157 01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:17,200 Speaker 1: period and a human lifespan, enough time to really build 1158 01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:20,840 Speaker 1: a norm and build culture. That's when all the call 1159 01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,080 Speaker 1: companies rose up, Like there were no big major like 1160 01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:28,320 Speaker 1: turkey call companies and turkey call accessories, and in the 1161 01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:31,840 Speaker 1: nineties those things really peaked and kind of and that's 1162 01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,720 Speaker 1: when turkey hunting media started. And so it was kind 1163 01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:36,920 Speaker 1: of like there was a flag stuck in the ground 1164 01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,680 Speaker 1: in the nineties in America about turkey hunting culture, and 1165 01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,760 Speaker 1: then that became the norm. And then today we're like, 1166 01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:46,200 Speaker 1: dad gum, why can't it be like the nineties. And 1167 01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:50,839 Speaker 1: that's also when there was some great turkey poachers that arose, 1168 01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:55,439 Speaker 1: like Charlie and Louis del Edwards. Clay gets into this 1169 01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:58,120 Speaker 1: in a series of bear Greese podcasts and you should 1170 01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:00,080 Speaker 1: you should expand them this a little bit and in 1171 01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:04,439 Speaker 1: a series of bear Grease podcasts about turkey poachers, a 1172 01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:07,519 Speaker 1: bunch of different turkey poachers and that these guys are 1173 01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:11,360 Speaker 1: they call it preseason honey, Yeah, guys that are killing 1174 01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:14,559 Speaker 1: twenty five turkeys, fifty turkeys, seventy five turkeys because turkeys 1175 01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:20,240 Speaker 1: are everywhere. Yeah, they you know, if you're season bag 1176 01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,160 Speaker 1: limits too, and you have you're in a place with 1177 01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:27,679 Speaker 1: a ton of turkeys. I mean for people with with 1178 01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:32,120 Speaker 1: without the the the backing to want to obey the law. 1179 01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:35,240 Speaker 1: I mean, killing two turkeys just wasn't enough. And these 1180 01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:37,720 Speaker 1: guys hunted from the time they started goblin til the 1181 01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:39,920 Speaker 1: time they stopped. You know, get it when it's getting good. 1182 01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:44,040 Speaker 1: Another piece of feedback that came from the Michigan Michigan's 1183 01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:46,960 Speaker 1: you know, the State of Michigan's Fishing Game Department, is 1184 01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:50,200 Speaker 1: this trend that I first heard about from Robert Abernathy, 1185 01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:54,000 Speaker 1: who's a turkey researcher in South Carolina, and it's that 1186 01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:56,760 Speaker 1: and looking at how are we going to continue to 1187 01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:59,080 Speaker 1: hunt turkeys and continue to have a lot of turkeys. 1188 01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:01,960 Speaker 1: You may in your state see a shift away from 1189 01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:06,680 Speaker 1: killing turkeys early. We sometimes they're killing turkeys in the 1190 01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:10,559 Speaker 1: snow in spring season. It's because hunters want to hunt 1191 01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:12,599 Speaker 1: them when they're goblin. They want to hunt turkeys when 1192 01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:15,800 Speaker 1: when you make a call, they're coming. And there's a 1193 01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:18,479 Speaker 1: lot of emerging should say a lot, there's some emerging 1194 01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:25,599 Speaker 1: research and emerging suspicion that when you're killing gobblers pre nesting, 1195 01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:31,000 Speaker 1: you're you're damaging a you're you're damaging the social hierarchy, 1196 01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:36,439 Speaker 1: and and and and interfering with breeding. And then it's 1197 01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:40,599 Speaker 1: like kill all the gobblers you want, and may don't 1198 01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:43,320 Speaker 1: kill them so bad in April you're busting them up 1199 01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:47,240 Speaker 1: at the wrong time. And and then there's also a 1200 01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:50,400 Speaker 1: fear that when you're hunting these winnering flocks and stuff 1201 01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:53,720 Speaker 1: like pre nesting, that you're you're having a lot of uh, 1202 01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:58,000 Speaker 1: you're having a lot of collateral damage by running shotgun, 1203 01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:02,280 Speaker 1: by running shot come patterns into in the groups of 1204 01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:05,920 Speaker 1: turkeys rather than working individual birds later on in the 1205 01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:11,800 Speaker 1: later on in the cycle. Mhm. Groundness and birds are 1206 01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:15,599 Speaker 1: just extremely complex. I think that's what we're learning. Yeah, 1207 01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:18,400 Speaker 1: I know, when I interviewed Mike Chamberlain, it's like the 1208 01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:21,479 Speaker 1: list of uh, you know, what's affecting you know, a 1209 01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:23,559 Speaker 1: lot of it. You talked early which a lot of 1210 01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:26,679 Speaker 1: states have their youth season and they talk about easy 1211 01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:29,960 Speaker 1: now I know, I know, but like I think there 1212 01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:34,000 Speaker 1: was a study a study down in Missouri were like, uh, 1213 01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's not a huge percentage of the overall birds, 1214 01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:38,800 Speaker 1: but they equate like that of the birds that get 1215 01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:42,160 Speaker 1: killed has like just as much of effect as the 1216 01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:44,960 Speaker 1: other you know of the birds that get killed and so, 1217 01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:47,080 Speaker 1: but it's not he was quick, you know, Mike was 1218 01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:49,880 Speaker 1: quick to say, it's not just youth seasons, it's habitat, 1219 01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:52,479 Speaker 1: it's this, it's this. It's just a very and and 1220 01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:54,640 Speaker 1: on a on an animal that has, you know, on 1221 01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:57,559 Speaker 1: a max of four year life cycling and then get 1222 01:18:57,600 --> 01:18:59,320 Speaker 1: older than that. But if we just say four years 1223 01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:01,160 Speaker 1: is kind of then the road for a turkey, you know, 1224 01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:03,719 Speaker 1: living through three with something with that quick at turnaround. 1225 01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:05,920 Speaker 1: You know, it's a slippery slope of Michigan. It's just 1226 01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:10,960 Speaker 1: very the populations like clay it's at, can shift very 1227 01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:12,960 Speaker 1: very quickly. When you're only dealing with a three or 1228 01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:14,639 Speaker 1: four years. You know, you get one or two bad 1229 01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:17,400 Speaker 1: springs and you're down to thirty three percent of your birds. 1230 01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:19,920 Speaker 1: If we're going on and it's just a very very 1231 01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:22,240 Speaker 1: complex issue. I don't think we have figured out yet. 1232 01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:25,280 Speaker 1: There's another aspect of turkey season. And I was like, 1233 01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:30,639 Speaker 1: I enjoy youth turkey season. Um, and it gets into 1234 01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,360 Speaker 1: that kind of like not in my backyard, like don't 1235 01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,040 Speaker 1: mess with me right, Like I'm I'm talking out of 1236 01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,400 Speaker 1: both sides of my mouth on one hand saying there's 1237 01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,080 Speaker 1: a lot of respected turkey researchers are like, we got 1238 01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,200 Speaker 1: caught stock killing birds so early. And then I'm like, 1239 01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:48,720 Speaker 1: you know, I'm already playing. I'm already playing in the Wisconsin. 1240 01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:50,679 Speaker 1: You know. We we go to Wisconsin for youth turkey. 1241 01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:52,639 Speaker 1: It's my favorite time of year. Last year we killed 1242 01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:56,679 Speaker 1: zero turkeys. Um, but that was not our intent, right, 1243 01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,200 Speaker 1: Our intent was to get a couple. So I love it. 1244 01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,200 Speaker 1: I love it. And yeah, maybe you know there will 1245 01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:05,000 Speaker 1: be a time when you have to, you know, question 1246 01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:08,000 Speaker 1: that and make that sacrifice. But generally, what you're looking 1247 01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:11,599 Speaker 1: for is you're not looking for You're looking for not 1248 01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:17,479 Speaker 1: individuals uh making like self proclamations. You're you're looking for 1249 01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:22,760 Speaker 1: agencies to codify regulations right and and basically have that 1250 01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:24,600 Speaker 1: be you know, people be like, how do you be 1251 01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,080 Speaker 1: how do you become an ethical hunter? But here's of it. 1252 01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:30,680 Speaker 1: Follow the law. We'll get you pretty much all the 1253 01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:34,400 Speaker 1: way there. Follow the law. Um in the law right 1254 01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:37,840 Speaker 1: now is you know the youth turkey thing. And and 1255 01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,080 Speaker 1: I don't I don't have I'm not hacking on any 1256 01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:42,400 Speaker 1: guy that goes out in Michigan and the fall and 1257 01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, the only the only have they got way 1258 01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:47,760 Speaker 1: less than half as many tagholders in the fall, in 1259 01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:52,160 Speaker 1: a way lower success rate in the fall. They they 1260 01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:57,439 Speaker 1: view it as like it's like a negligible harvest. But 1261 01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:00,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, Man, the good days of turkey you know, 1262 01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:02,439 Speaker 1: I hate say it, but in some respects the good 1263 01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:06,040 Speaker 1: days of turkey hunting could be winding down. Would you 1264 01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,880 Speaker 1: be as cautious about going to two birds? You know, 1265 01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:13,559 Speaker 1: tag for two birds limit versus one before you would 1266 01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:17,719 Speaker 1: you know, open up the fall like in Michigan even 1267 01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:21,160 Speaker 1: one bird limit? Would you would you rather see them 1268 01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:23,840 Speaker 1: going to two birds and not do the full If 1269 01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:27,680 Speaker 1: I was the TSAR, if I was America's wildlifs Are, 1270 01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:31,400 Speaker 1: that'd be a good position for that would be You're 1271 01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:33,840 Speaker 1: the only one in this country that can sort through 1272 01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:40,439 Speaker 1: bipartisan politics America's wildlifs are, And I could just do 1273 01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:41,960 Speaker 1: what I needed to do and I would even have 1274 01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:46,760 Speaker 1: to hear any complaints. Right, there's no way to even 1275 01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:50,160 Speaker 1: get a hold of me. And I'm the wildlifs Are 1276 01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:52,519 Speaker 1: and no one even knows that I'm the wild LIFs Are. 1277 01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:56,479 Speaker 1: You're the man behind the curtain. I'm the man behind 1278 01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:58,240 Speaker 1: the curtain and I can do stuff and I don't 1279 01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,519 Speaker 1: need to hear about it from my friends. No one 1280 01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:02,519 Speaker 1: would know I did it, but it would be done. 1281 01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:08,880 Speaker 1: In that scenario, I would be like, I would go 1282 01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:11,559 Speaker 1: to my Turkey guys and I'd be like, Okay, what 1283 01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:13,280 Speaker 1: are we looking at? All the states, all the game 1284 01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:16,160 Speaker 1: management units, like very detailed level, what are we looking at? 1285 01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:20,920 Speaker 1: Give me the harvest numbers that we can withstand. I 1286 01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:23,960 Speaker 1: would say, great, let's shoot for that in the spring. 1287 01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:26,760 Speaker 1: There's a lot of other stuff to do in the fall. 1288 01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:31,720 Speaker 1: Let's make let's make a big robust spring season. If 1289 01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:34,640 Speaker 1: we need to cut out April a bit, if we 1290 01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:37,639 Speaker 1: need to eat into April, let's give it back twice 1291 01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:43,280 Speaker 1: folding may Well, that's what that would probably be my 1292 01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:46,120 Speaker 1: my edict. As turkeys are, that's what they're doing a 1293 01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,200 Speaker 1: lot in a set like in Arkansas, that's what they're doing. 1294 01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:52,160 Speaker 1: They've bumped our season dates back to the late teens 1295 01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:55,800 Speaker 1: of April usually, and man, by then it's it's pretty tough. 1296 01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:58,920 Speaker 1: And I used to it opened like the first Saturday 1297 01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:01,599 Speaker 1: in April, you know, when I as a kid. So yeah, 1298 01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:04,320 Speaker 1: they're doing that. Let me tell you who let me 1299 01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:06,160 Speaker 1: tell you a Turkey guy that you need to have 1300 01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:08,599 Speaker 1: on this podcast. And I'm gonna be so bold as 1301 01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:10,920 Speaker 1: to do this on the air. Number. Here's the thing, 1302 01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:13,600 Speaker 1: you might be doing yourself a disservice because if you 1303 01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:16,360 Speaker 1: do that and then he winds up on all kinds 1304 01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:18,559 Speaker 1: of other podcasts, then it won't be as fun for 1305 01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:21,000 Speaker 1: me to have him on this podcast. Got you well, 1306 01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:25,320 Speaker 1: I'll tell you there's a Okay, I'll tell you everything, 1307 01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:27,800 Speaker 1: but the guy's name. There's a guy in Tennessee that 1308 01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:31,679 Speaker 1: you really should have on the Medeor podcast. Great guy, 1309 01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:36,559 Speaker 1: he's he's he's got a little different angle than some 1310 01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:40,760 Speaker 1: of the some of the other the turkey apologists that 1311 01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:44,040 Speaker 1: we've had floating around. I view myself when it comes 1312 01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:46,360 Speaker 1: to Turkey stuff like I'm not making this stuff up. 1313 01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:50,000 Speaker 1: I view myself as basically like I view myself basically 1314 01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:53,719 Speaker 1: as a UM A person who listens to Mike Chamberlain. 1315 01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:58,120 Speaker 1: I mean, Mike Chairman told me something like crazy, I 1316 01:23:58,160 --> 01:24:00,840 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't. I mean, like generally, it's like I don't 1317 01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,040 Speaker 1: you know we talked about earlier, like what's the motivation? 1318 01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:08,320 Speaker 1: Guy loves turkey hunting, dedicated his life's turkeys, loves turkey hunting. 1319 01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:11,120 Speaker 1: He doesn't want to see turkey hunting go away. I'm like, 1320 01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:14,160 Speaker 1: I agree. Like that guy, Robert Abernathy, dude lives the 1321 01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:17,240 Speaker 1: hunt turkeys. He's a turkey researcher. I know that his 1322 01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:20,360 Speaker 1: heart is pure. And I'm like, if that guy likes 1323 01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:23,920 Speaker 1: the hunt turkeys as much or more as I do 1324 01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:26,599 Speaker 1: like the hunt turkeys. Guy lives on hunt turkeys. And 1325 01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:28,720 Speaker 1: when he's talking, he's talking about how we're gonna keep 1326 01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:30,760 Speaker 1: hunting turkeys. That's the guy I want to listen to, 1327 01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:35,320 Speaker 1: no doubt. Uh, I'll tell you, I don't know if 1328 01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:37,000 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to say that this happened to helfle Finger, 1329 01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:40,760 Speaker 1: but super funny. Huffle Finger used to be a dear 1330 01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,759 Speaker 1: guide and um, he's guiding on a place in Texas. 1331 01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:48,400 Speaker 1: So it's a ranch owned by a ranch owner and 1332 01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:50,559 Speaker 1: they did guided hunts on it. And half a Finger 1333 01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:55,080 Speaker 1: has a client who's a guy in ecologist and he 1334 01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:57,000 Speaker 1: rattles in the big bart for the guy, and the 1335 01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:00,559 Speaker 1: guy that owns the property comes and suggests that affle Finger, 1336 01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:04,880 Speaker 1: because this client suggests a Hefflefinger, that perhaps helfle Finger's 1337 01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:13,000 Speaker 1: wife should start seeing this gentleman. He's got like, I 1338 01:25:13,080 --> 01:25:19,640 Speaker 1: gonna leave that up to her. M hm, that's the 1339 01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:25,440 Speaker 1: funniest story. He's like, yeah, yeah, the pass on that suggestion. 1340 01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:33,559 Speaker 1: Oh how did that story come up? I'm he emailed 1341 01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:35,800 Speaker 1: about a broader suite of things, but then just threw 1342 01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:38,080 Speaker 1: that in there as a little tibit. The greatest emails. 1343 01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:40,360 Speaker 1: He'll know, he'll tell you something and then but there's 1344 01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:44,280 Speaker 1: like four other things that like he was because we 1345 01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:46,719 Speaker 1: were he was we were talking about exotics and Texas, 1346 01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:49,040 Speaker 1: and he was introducing me to a word I hadn't heard, 1347 01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:53,560 Speaker 1: which is texotics, the exotics industry of Texas. So he 1348 01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:57,519 Speaker 1: had some comments about texotics um, which leaves me Another 1349 01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:01,240 Speaker 1: thing I want to talk about is in New Mexico, 1350 01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:05,760 Speaker 1: cops responded to a shooting and while they're like responding 1351 01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:13,240 Speaker 1: to a shooting, another shooting, like an adjacent trailer happens, 1352 01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:16,880 Speaker 1: like another shot is fired. They find a blood trail 1353 01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:21,280 Speaker 1: from a person, track the blood trail into another building. 1354 01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:27,200 Speaker 1: And what's in that building a Bengal tiger a pet. 1355 01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:31,880 Speaker 1: So did the Bengal tiger have anything to do with 1356 01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:35,960 Speaker 1: the crime. No, he's just an innocent bystander. Okay, okay, 1357 01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:38,360 Speaker 1: but they hauled it away. Oh they weren't supposed to 1358 01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:40,839 Speaker 1: have it in there. No, they had a Bengal tiger 1359 01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:49,040 Speaker 1: in a dog box. Wow. Wow. I think about that. 1360 01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:51,439 Speaker 1: It reminds me of the story you told about the 1361 01:26:51,479 --> 01:26:57,000 Speaker 1: guy in Vietnam. Oh yeah, I feel like it's sad 1362 01:26:57,040 --> 01:27:03,760 Speaker 1: a story I tell. It's just interesting about dog ownership. Um, 1363 01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:05,960 Speaker 1: all right, so Jason, do you might know you know 1364 01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:10,680 Speaker 1: how to talk at all? Jason's like the interesting man 1365 01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:14,000 Speaker 1: in the room from Matt, I mean, aside from Matt 1366 01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:17,559 Speaker 1: and everybody else. Well, Jason got his second big game animal. 1367 01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:21,640 Speaker 1: Do you mind just giving giving listeners sort of a 1368 01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:26,240 Speaker 1: high level you know? Uh? Um, we're hunting Cou's deer 1369 01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:33,920 Speaker 1: like a high level newcomers you know. Uh, yelp review 1370 01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:37,640 Speaker 1: if you will of Cou's your hunting. I learned a 1371 01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,280 Speaker 1: lot over the course of the last six seven days 1372 01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:47,080 Speaker 1: down here in Mexico. Um. Really grateful to you, Steve, Clay, Jason, 1373 01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:49,960 Speaker 1: Bridget the whole Meet Eater team for having me join 1374 01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:53,000 Speaker 1: you guys, at the risk of disgracing the entire pursuit 1375 01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:56,639 Speaker 1: of hunting. I hope that I did not do that. No, no, 1376 01:27:56,680 --> 01:27:58,920 Speaker 1: it was great. But with you know, with a mentorship 1377 01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:03,720 Speaker 1: of Steve and Clay, I gain a lot, certainly in 1378 01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:09,280 Speaker 1: appreciation of the the patients, the athleticism, the endurance of 1379 01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:12,880 Speaker 1: a cou'se deer hunt, the strategy that's required to to 1380 01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:17,599 Speaker 1: get it right, to get success. Uh. I learned what 1381 01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:19,799 Speaker 1: to do and what not to do at a Mexican 1382 01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:29,840 Speaker 1: border crossing. Very valuable, life less great cross greater length here. Um. 1383 01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:35,360 Speaker 1: I learned that there's a healthy debate around the origin 1384 01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:40,320 Speaker 1: of the term refried beans. So some would contend that 1385 01:28:41,080 --> 01:28:43,320 Speaker 1: refried beans is very literal in that the beans are 1386 01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:48,000 Speaker 1: being fried again and again and again and again, whereas 1387 01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:51,720 Speaker 1: others would say that there's just one Uh, there's one 1388 01:28:52,479 --> 01:28:57,040 Speaker 1: one fry, one pot to which beans are just continuously added, 1389 01:28:57,120 --> 01:29:00,479 Speaker 1: like an infinite bottle of refried beans. I don't know 1390 01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:04,200 Speaker 1: where I sort out on that yet. Um that to 1391 01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:07,640 Speaker 1: the Google that I feel is knowable. Were we to 1392 01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:10,960 Speaker 1: have Internet access, but yeah, yeah, no internet access. I 1393 01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:14,160 Speaker 1: learned that I like not having internet access. It makes 1394 01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:18,439 Speaker 1: mysteries linger a little longer. Yeah. Uh. I learned that 1395 01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:22,200 Speaker 1: after seven consecutive days wearing the same pair of first 1396 01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:28,599 Speaker 1: Light long underwear, they do not smell. And then overall, 1397 01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:32,640 Speaker 1: my suite of first light gear uh is is durable 1398 01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:37,920 Speaker 1: and comfortable and highly recommendable. Oh that's great, thank you. Uh, 1399 01:29:38,360 --> 01:29:40,400 Speaker 1: but it's been uh it's been a great time, been 1400 01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:42,559 Speaker 1: a great experience. You learned how to take a very 1401 01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:48,839 Speaker 1: quick showery very quick. Yeah, yeah, twenty seconds is really 1402 01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:53,040 Speaker 1: all that. It takes it out. Yeah, get freshened up. 1403 01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:57,960 Speaker 1: What was your impression of, um, the amount of that 1404 01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:00,760 Speaker 1: that the primary thing you do is looking through binoculars. 1405 01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:08,400 Speaker 1: Well that gets to the patients. Yeah, um yeah, it's uh, 1406 01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:12,599 Speaker 1: it's it's real acquired skill. I mean, these these these coups, 1407 01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:15,160 Speaker 1: they're they're hard to find. But you got I felt 1408 01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:16,639 Speaker 1: you got good at it. Over a couple of days, 1409 01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:21,040 Speaker 1: I got better at it. I got better at it. Yeah. Yeah. 1410 01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:24,479 Speaker 1: That that's fun to watch, is and I know it 1411 01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:27,280 Speaker 1: will happen. Is. I know the people on the first 1412 01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:31,519 Speaker 1: day be useless and that, let me say, a couple 1413 01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:33,200 Speaker 1: of days later, a couple of days later, they're all 1414 01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:35,760 Speaker 1: sudden spotting stuff. It's fun. It's like a very quick 1415 01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:39,160 Speaker 1: you learned the basics pretty quickly. Steve's favorite day of 1416 01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:41,920 Speaker 1: the coup's hunt is the first night after he takes 1417 01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:44,479 Speaker 1: new people, because he's like, man, I was out there 1418 01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:46,200 Speaker 1: and it was like I didn't even have any help 1419 01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:49,040 Speaker 1: at all. Man, I was spotting all of there, and 1420 01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:51,719 Speaker 1: I don't even know what Clay and Jason did. Steve 1421 01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:54,680 Speaker 1: all of a sudden became southern. And then and then 1422 01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:56,840 Speaker 1: the next day it's like, how did y'all do? It's like, oh, 1423 01:30:56,920 --> 01:30:58,720 Speaker 1: we probably spot as many as Steve, and he's like, oh, 1424 01:30:58,760 --> 01:31:03,360 Speaker 1: I knew they'd come around. Well, it's after that first 1425 01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:06,600 Speaker 1: day when you are able to discern the certing, the 1426 01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:09,679 Speaker 1: difference between a cow and a deer, that things really 1427 01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:14,680 Speaker 1: take off, you know. So that came a long way. Anybody, Oh, 1428 01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:16,200 Speaker 1: you know, one more thing I want to touch on, 1429 01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:18,160 Speaker 1: and then I want to I also want to thank 1430 01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:21,479 Speaker 1: I want to thank Jay Scott, Jay Scott Outdoors, Um 1431 01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:27,320 Speaker 1: Colburn and Scott Outfitters and Jay Scott. Uh put so 1432 01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:31,840 Speaker 1: much work into has put decades of work into having 1433 01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:35,599 Speaker 1: built a UM not only a guided but to do 1434 01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:39,040 Speaker 1: it yourself. COO's to your hunt in Mexico. You can 1435 01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:40,400 Speaker 1: work with him too, to do and we've done it 1436 01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:43,240 Speaker 1: many many times now. UM, if you really want to 1437 01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:47,240 Speaker 1: learn it. Go with Jay, you'll learn. I still look 1438 01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:48,640 Speaker 1: forward to that day. I haven't done it yet, but 1439 01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:50,800 Speaker 1: look forward today of like actually hunting with with Jay 1440 01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:53,280 Speaker 1: and and learning everything he knows. If you really want 1441 01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:55,040 Speaker 1: to learn that, you can go with j But also 1442 01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:59,800 Speaker 1: j Um helps facilitate do it yourself stuff where he 1443 01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:03,040 Speaker 1: he gets you hooked up with the information you need 1444 01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:05,759 Speaker 1: and everything, and and you kind of get cut loose 1445 01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:07,559 Speaker 1: on him, you know, cut loose on your own chunk 1446 01:32:07,640 --> 01:32:09,879 Speaker 1: or ground hunt and it's it's a it's a blast, 1447 01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:17,040 Speaker 1: and always thankful for him for putting that together. Um undertaking. Yeah, 1448 01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:18,879 Speaker 1: he does such a good job with very well organized 1449 01:32:19,400 --> 01:32:21,960 Speaker 1: but uh, one thing I want to cover off on 1450 01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:26,519 Speaker 1: is is the saga of Jason's buck, which died not 1451 01:32:26,640 --> 01:32:30,679 Speaker 1: by his hand, so we're already calling it Jason's bud. 1452 01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:33,840 Speaker 1: Let's just be clear, this is just why do you 1453 01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:37,400 Speaker 1: so you want to tell about finding the buck? Where 1454 01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:39,479 Speaker 1: did you find him? How big a story do we 1455 01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:42,200 Speaker 1: need here just that found it and how he turned 1456 01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:45,040 Speaker 1: up on a different mountain. So I'll kick it off 1457 01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:46,880 Speaker 1: and you can finish it. So it's kind of the 1458 01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:51,840 Speaker 1: way it happy first morning we go out and find 1459 01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:54,240 Speaker 1: a good buck and bridgets able to get it killed, 1460 01:32:54,280 --> 01:32:58,200 Speaker 1: and we we go out and start glass and it 1461 01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:00,000 Speaker 1: gets too warm. We take it back to camp. Hey, 1462 01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:01,920 Speaker 1: that was a really good valt. We're gonna go back. Um. 1463 01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:05,360 Speaker 1: We're sitting down there glass and and it was like 1464 01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:08,879 Speaker 1: that magical last forty five minutes. Deer start popping out everywhere, 1465 01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:10,519 Speaker 1: and we're trying to keep track of them all. And 1466 01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, there's a dough, there's a spike chasing a dough, 1467 01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:14,479 Speaker 1: and you're kind of going back and forth all your 1468 01:33:14,479 --> 01:33:16,360 Speaker 1: different groups of the dear well the spike that it 1469 01:33:16,479 --> 01:33:18,320 Speaker 1: chased it dough over. I turned around. I'm like, whoa, 1470 01:33:18,360 --> 01:33:21,120 Speaker 1: that's a lot bigger buck. And uh in the same 1471 01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:24,040 Speaker 1: view of my spotter, he had a real wide um 1472 01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:25,800 Speaker 1: short time three points. So we're like back and forth. 1473 01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:29,360 Speaker 1: I said that bottom buck is a as a stud, 1474 01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:30,799 Speaker 1: but I said, I think his right side is broken, 1475 01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:33,720 Speaker 1: like something doesn't look right, not adding up, and he's 1476 01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:37,080 Speaker 1: kind of you know, he's broadside to us, and at 1477 01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:39,280 Speaker 1: first he goes to take off, you know, goes to 1478 01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:41,360 Speaker 1: run that dough, and I'm like, holy, holy smokes, he's 1479 01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:42,760 Speaker 1: got like a big long time. I thought he had 1480 01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,280 Speaker 1: a drop time. Something just looked weird. Um, and then 1481 01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:47,160 Speaker 1: he finally slowed down. We were able to like, man, 1482 01:33:47,160 --> 01:33:49,519 Speaker 1: he's got like two fourteen inch points that comes straight up. 1483 01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:51,920 Speaker 1: You've got a big oldye guard. Looks like something going 1484 01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:53,400 Speaker 1: on funk at the base. And he was a real 1485 01:33:53,439 --> 01:33:56,760 Speaker 1: solid eight on the left. And um, we come home 1486 01:33:56,880 --> 01:33:58,920 Speaker 1: like me and Matt run up there, try to get 1487 01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:02,080 Speaker 1: we close the distance of three hundred and um, nothing's 1488 01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:04,160 Speaker 1: left there beside the spike. Every he kind of rund 1489 01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,080 Speaker 1: the dough off and we're excited, like, oh, we gotta 1490 01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:08,880 Speaker 1: play for tomorrow. Um, we're gonna kill that buck. And 1491 01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:11,600 Speaker 1: so we we go there in the morning, end up 1492 01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:15,120 Speaker 1: getting at his buck. And uh so I said, all right, 1493 01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:17,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna I'm gonna climb up there. So I'm in 1494 01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:19,000 Speaker 1: that three unit yard spot. I'm gonna kill this buck tonight, 1495 01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:21,559 Speaker 1: you know, because um, hey, and what did I tell 1496 01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:23,960 Speaker 1: you that night when you came home talking about this 1497 01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:27,400 Speaker 1: really unique you know, wild racked you know, basically a 1498 01:34:27,439 --> 01:34:32,360 Speaker 1: buck with one normal side and then on the double 1499 01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:35,200 Speaker 1: main beams and an eye guard just really you know, 1500 01:34:35,240 --> 01:34:36,720 Speaker 1: just one of those once in the lifetime bucks I 1501 01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:38,640 Speaker 1: would love to have killed and I said, man, you 1502 01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:41,559 Speaker 1: need to spend all weeks. Yeah, so I think Clay 1503 01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:43,800 Speaker 1: secretly knew that wasn't his home range and was trying 1504 01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:46,400 Speaker 1: to throw me up. So that night I climb up 1505 01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:51,719 Speaker 1: in there, um glass and you know, just gonna pound 1506 01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:55,160 Speaker 1: that and then uh, I get you know, Steve and 1507 01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:57,200 Speaker 1: Clay and Jason are on a different mountain, and I 1508 01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:00,880 Speaker 1: real faint radio reception. I think we found well, I 1509 01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:04,280 Speaker 1: don't remember how it came across. I told you, Hey, 1510 01:35:04,439 --> 01:35:06,519 Speaker 1: the buck that you're trying to get, we found him 1511 01:35:06,520 --> 01:35:09,040 Speaker 1: on a totally different mountain in this room, and you 1512 01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:11,439 Speaker 1: try to defend your You try to be like, well 1513 01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:13,840 Speaker 1: you know where where I'm at, Like I'm no, Like 1514 01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:18,240 Speaker 1: I mean a totally different different mountain. Well, it was 1515 01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:21,320 Speaker 1: so we you had described this buck, and we were 1516 01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:25,960 Speaker 1: so far away from you that the Steve actually said, 1517 01:35:26,120 --> 01:35:28,080 Speaker 1: we've got a chance to see in that deer, but 1518 01:35:28,600 --> 01:35:31,080 Speaker 1: on the other mountain, like out of play, Like we 1519 01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:33,280 Speaker 1: had a chance of glass in the deer, like maybe 1520 01:35:33,320 --> 01:35:36,400 Speaker 1: a mile away, So we weren't hunting that deer, and 1521 01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:39,040 Speaker 1: we had we had made a big loop. We decided 1522 01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:41,679 Speaker 1: we had gone five or six miles since daylight we'd 1523 01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:44,640 Speaker 1: been out all day and had made a made a 1524 01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:47,320 Speaker 1: big loop and had had a pretty rough day of 1525 01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:50,880 Speaker 1: of hunting, hadn't seen many deer. It's a long story. 1526 01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:53,439 Speaker 1: We did see one buck that we didn't get, but 1527 01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:56,519 Speaker 1: late in the evening we were on a high knob 1528 01:35:57,840 --> 01:36:00,680 Speaker 1: and we had all been glassing for a pretty long 1529 01:36:00,720 --> 01:36:03,360 Speaker 1: time and it was just one of those deals where 1530 01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:05,960 Speaker 1: this buck was. He was in a very thick area, 1531 01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:09,640 Speaker 1: very steep area, but he was within four hundred and 1532 01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:13,200 Speaker 1: forty yards of us when I arranged him. But on 1533 01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:17,400 Speaker 1: a on a micro level, he was in the wide open. Yeah, 1534 01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:20,160 Speaker 1: he was out of the wind, in the brushy he was. 1535 01:36:20,240 --> 01:36:22,719 Speaker 1: He was in a brush choked hellhole out of the wind. 1536 01:36:22,920 --> 01:36:25,240 Speaker 1: But he was sitting in a spot about as big 1537 01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:27,320 Speaker 1: as this living room. That was. I mean, he was 1538 01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:29,360 Speaker 1: just laying there, bedded. And the second I saw him, 1539 01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:32,519 Speaker 1: I was like, that's Jason's buck. And I sneak over 1540 01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:35,400 Speaker 1: the hill and give the you know, the cou's deer 1541 01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:40,519 Speaker 1: eyes and hand motions to Steve like big buck over here. 1542 01:36:41,080 --> 01:36:44,280 Speaker 1: And so they come over and we glass the deer. 1543 01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:47,040 Speaker 1: It's a deer we want to shoot, and we slip 1544 01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:52,680 Speaker 1: into three thirty yards and uh, and you know, we 1545 01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:55,760 Speaker 1: were hunting in in a in a team, me Steve 1546 01:36:55,880 --> 01:37:01,320 Speaker 1: and Jason berg bergsman, and um, it's complicated how who 1547 01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:04,360 Speaker 1: gets to take the shot? Because when Jason was gonna shoot, 1548 01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:07,000 Speaker 1: if if it was inside a three yards, I mean, 1549 01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:09,360 Speaker 1: that's kind of where we were at. And it was. 1550 01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:12,000 Speaker 1: It was it was very windy, and I knew it 1551 01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:15,400 Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be close. Yeah, and so Jason was the shooter, 1552 01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:17,759 Speaker 1: but when it was going to be a further shot, 1553 01:37:18,600 --> 01:37:21,400 Speaker 1: it all of a sudden, I was a shooting. You 1554 01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:26,040 Speaker 1: were the Feds, Yeah, and Jason was Alaska. Yeah, like 1555 01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:32,280 Speaker 1: that's like that. Yeah. And so we slip into three 1556 01:37:32,280 --> 01:37:35,880 Speaker 1: thirties shooting across the canyon pretty pretty still. I would 1557 01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:38,479 Speaker 1: say a ten mile pro across wind. That's what I believe. 1558 01:37:38,479 --> 01:37:43,680 Speaker 1: It was pretty stiff cross wind. And uh, but I 1559 01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:47,400 Speaker 1: argued that it wasn't all the way. I didn't quite 1560 01:37:47,479 --> 01:37:50,120 Speaker 1: understand that, but I'm with it wasn't where he was 1561 01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:52,880 Speaker 1: because he was out of It's something to get super 1562 01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:57,160 Speaker 1: tricky about wind and ballistics. Man, you're on some peaky 1563 01:37:57,479 --> 01:38:00,320 Speaker 1: and you're in ten mile our cross wind, but you're 1564 01:38:00,320 --> 01:38:02,920 Speaker 1: shooting across the canyon and around the side of a hill. 1565 01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:05,840 Speaker 1: He's in he's in potentially a zero mile an hour 1566 01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:09,439 Speaker 1: cross wind, or he's in the winds wrapping around the 1567 01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:12,439 Speaker 1: hill and in the winds blow in the opposite direction, 1568 01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:16,479 Speaker 1: or it's blowing down or up. Like everyone wants to 1569 01:38:16,479 --> 01:38:20,360 Speaker 1: take like what's going on with them in mountainous train 1570 01:38:20,479 --> 01:38:25,040 Speaker 1: and then act like that's a constant. Right in certain situations, 1571 01:38:25,040 --> 01:38:26,800 Speaker 1: you could be like, I assume that between me and 1572 01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:29,200 Speaker 1: my target, that wind is the same all the way across. 1573 01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:31,720 Speaker 1: But in this kind of stuff, it's not. It's hard 1574 01:38:31,760 --> 01:38:34,479 Speaker 1: to like, it's hard to hold for it. So when 1575 01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:36,759 Speaker 1: then when you get into like extreme long range stuff 1576 01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:38,960 Speaker 1: and people are I calculated for the dude, you're when 1577 01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:45,599 Speaker 1: your bullet passed through five different wind circumstances over the year, 1578 01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:50,000 Speaker 1: eight yard shot like the it was, it's been subject 1579 01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:51,439 Speaker 1: to all kinds of stuff you can't even begin to 1580 01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:56,320 Speaker 1: understand between here and there. So we get a really 1581 01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:59,760 Speaker 1: good rest. I used Steven's tripod, and I've got to say, 1582 01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:02,559 Speaker 1: had I know what it feels like to be nervous 1583 01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:04,479 Speaker 1: for a shot, which I would be, my heart rate 1584 01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:07,000 Speaker 1: would increase, breathing would increase, I'd be nervous shooting it 1585 01:39:07,040 --> 01:39:09,000 Speaker 1: a big deer that I think it's like a once 1586 01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:11,320 Speaker 1: in a lifetime in couse buck. But I also had 1587 01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:15,920 Speaker 1: the chemical jitters because of a Monster Energy drink that 1588 01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:18,000 Speaker 1: I had drank like an hour and a half before, 1589 01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:20,719 Speaker 1: which I don't drink a lot of Monster Energy drinks ever, 1590 01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:23,800 Speaker 1: but I drank one because we were on the Death 1591 01:39:23,840 --> 01:39:28,200 Speaker 1: March with Steve and and so I'm serious. When I 1592 01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:30,400 Speaker 1: pulled the gun, like walking down there, I was like, 1593 01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:33,280 Speaker 1: my heart is doing stuff that usually doesn't do, and 1594 01:39:33,320 --> 01:39:37,360 Speaker 1: so I wasn't you know, I had a good rest, 1595 01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:41,679 Speaker 1: YadA YadA, using my patented shooting platform. Yeah, it was good. 1596 01:39:41,880 --> 01:39:44,720 Speaker 1: It was good. And I shoot the first time and 1597 01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:48,920 Speaker 1: missed the buck. We think the buck stands up runs 1598 01:39:49,720 --> 01:39:53,400 Speaker 1: maybe thirty ft. And I had a very difficult time 1599 01:39:53,479 --> 01:39:55,560 Speaker 1: finding him again in the scope because now he's in 1600 01:39:55,600 --> 01:39:59,720 Speaker 1: the brush and I shoot the second time. Problem Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1601 01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:03,200 Speaker 1: Steve was like he's standing there, he standing, did you 1602 01:40:03,240 --> 01:40:06,799 Speaker 1: not see him shake like he shook, well, he jumped 1603 01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:08,840 Speaker 1: up and he and he shook like a dog like 1604 01:40:08,920 --> 01:40:11,759 Speaker 1: trying to get water off his hide, you know. And anyway, 1605 01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:13,639 Speaker 1: when we went up there I realized that I had 1606 01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:17,720 Speaker 1: shot the non typical horn off of the deer. The 1607 01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:21,960 Speaker 1: first shot had missed high, high and left and had 1608 01:40:22,080 --> 01:40:27,519 Speaker 1: shot off Jason's beautiful fourteen age spike. And uh, I 1609 01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:30,880 Speaker 1: think the deer had felt a like an unusual jar 1610 01:40:31,040 --> 01:40:33,400 Speaker 1: to its head, went out there and kind of gave 1611 01:40:33,439 --> 01:40:36,400 Speaker 1: a little shake and uh, and then the second shot 1612 01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:38,640 Speaker 1: I hit him and does it. It's been struggling for 1613 01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:42,640 Speaker 1: the right word because I was saying, it's not irony, 1614 01:40:42,720 --> 01:40:46,519 Speaker 1: but yeah, it's like the thing he's known for, the 1615 01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:51,280 Speaker 1: thing I wanted the most, get the shot off. Yeah, 1616 01:40:51,479 --> 01:40:53,880 Speaker 1: I can't think of that. There's the gap in the 1617 01:40:53,920 --> 01:40:59,599 Speaker 1: English language. Yeah, we need for what happened? Good point. Yeah, Yeah, 1618 01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:02,479 Speaker 1: I don't know. But in the end, I'm very very 1619 01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:04,720 Speaker 1: thankful you because where you killed him was his home 1620 01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:07,640 Speaker 1: range I would still be to this day. They were 1621 01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:10,640 Speaker 1: sitting in that one little drainage waiting for him to 1622 01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:15,479 Speaker 1: repay it. So you know, Jason ended up killing an 1623 01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:20,400 Speaker 1: even bigger dear two days later, just in the like, 1624 01:41:20,479 --> 01:41:25,320 Speaker 1: almost within sight of where I killed this deer. And uh, 1625 01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:28,920 Speaker 1: Jason and I, being old cous deer man like we are, 1626 01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:33,439 Speaker 1: we decided that if you're gonna kill a big cous dear, 1627 01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:35,599 Speaker 1: you need to be close to a red and white 1628 01:41:35,720 --> 01:41:40,040 Speaker 1: radio tower. Because every big cousier we've ever killed, it's 1629 01:41:40,080 --> 01:41:43,479 Speaker 1: been right by a big red and white radio tower. 1630 01:41:44,880 --> 01:41:49,240 Speaker 1: So that's our tip of the week. Yeah, So I 1631 01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:52,320 Speaker 1: think if you if you're gonna market you know, a 1632 01:41:52,479 --> 01:41:55,280 Speaker 1: cous deer hunt was Stephen Ronella and the Metiator team. 1633 01:41:58,760 --> 01:42:02,400 Speaker 1: It's not a big market. This is an exclusive event, 1634 01:42:02,520 --> 01:42:05,639 Speaker 1: which I'm very appreciative for, but I think I would also, 1635 01:42:06,120 --> 01:42:09,320 Speaker 1: you know, describe it as you know, it is a 1636 01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:13,000 Speaker 1: team effort. I had no idea that you would break 1637 01:42:13,040 --> 01:42:16,759 Speaker 1: into groups. I envisioned myself alone on a mountain making 1638 01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:20,519 Speaker 1: poor decisions. We're having to having to make judgment calls 1639 01:42:20,560 --> 01:42:25,800 Speaker 1: that I'm you know, we're would be questionable. So with 1640 01:42:26,040 --> 01:42:29,640 Speaker 1: Bridget and Jason Phelps and I, I mean, it was 1641 01:42:29,720 --> 01:42:34,880 Speaker 1: truly a team can all in team effort, and we 1642 01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:37,680 Speaker 1: each spotted each other's deer, which I think is a 1643 01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:42,439 Speaker 1: cool dynamic. Um, it's as much strategy as it is 1644 01:42:42,640 --> 01:42:45,880 Speaker 1: you know, making plays and and uh, there's so much 1645 01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:50,000 Speaker 1: risk in every decision you make and so many opportunities 1646 01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:53,600 Speaker 1: for things to go sideways. Um, we even had. You know, 1647 01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:56,639 Speaker 1: Bridget could tell a story. Bridget had a mountain lion 1648 01:42:56,800 --> 01:42:59,639 Speaker 1: siding that came down and ran right across our field. 1649 01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:08,800 Speaker 1: One bride, badass. Let me hand. We were Matt and 1650 01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:10,400 Speaker 1: I had already tagged out. So we were on a 1651 01:43:10,400 --> 01:43:12,800 Speaker 1: mission for Phelps to find him a big buck that day, 1652 01:43:13,120 --> 01:43:15,559 Speaker 1: and we did. Jason found a giant buck that day. 1653 01:43:15,640 --> 01:43:19,400 Speaker 1: Beautiful time point, I think. And at the time I 1654 01:43:19,439 --> 01:43:21,080 Speaker 1: pulled up my range finder because I wanted to see 1655 01:43:21,120 --> 01:43:22,400 Speaker 1: how far it was. I'm looking at all this through 1656 01:43:22,439 --> 01:43:25,000 Speaker 1: my range finder and I panover to find the buck 1657 01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:29,080 Speaker 1: and there's a mountain lion in the same view and 1658 01:43:29,120 --> 01:43:30,880 Speaker 1: no one else has said anything. And I was like, 1659 01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:34,120 Speaker 1: I told these guys had zero chill. It's like, turns 1660 01:43:34,120 --> 01:43:36,960 Speaker 1: a mountain lion, what are you looking at? And he 1661 01:43:37,080 --> 01:43:41,680 Speaker 1: was stalking the book that Phelps was after. And so 1662 01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:44,360 Speaker 1: I actually watched this what I believe to be a 1663 01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:49,840 Speaker 1: huge tom stalk and chase off his book. Change tactics 1664 01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:53,240 Speaker 1: followed dough and do like a double arm swipe at 1665 01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:55,799 Speaker 1: this dough. She just tucked her button got away. How 1666 01:43:55,880 --> 01:43:59,439 Speaker 1: much did he miss? By? And this was he was 1667 01:43:59,560 --> 01:44:03,200 Speaker 1: size bigger than the deer noticeably bigger than the deer. 1668 01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:06,840 Speaker 1: And this this was on in the spand longer and 1669 01:44:06,880 --> 01:44:11,599 Speaker 1: thicker than broad from tip to tail. And because these 1670 01:44:11,640 --> 01:44:15,000 Speaker 1: deer these does especially under a hundred pounds. Yeah, they're 1671 01:44:15,040 --> 01:44:19,800 Speaker 1: small deer, but the entire hillside lit up. It was 1672 01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:23,080 Speaker 1: like they were like thirty deer. We didn't know that 1673 01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:28,160 Speaker 1: suggestions and the cat stuck around for a little while too, 1674 01:44:28,160 --> 01:44:31,160 Speaker 1: so these guys finally spotted it. And we're watching all 1675 01:44:31,160 --> 01:44:35,080 Speaker 1: this from about four yards and then he continued to 1676 01:44:35,120 --> 01:44:38,639 Speaker 1: make plays continue like I'm sure he was like Jason 1677 01:44:38,720 --> 01:44:40,719 Speaker 1: on the mountain. When I told him I killed his buck, 1678 01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:44,559 Speaker 1: cat just like stood around. We went back to cat 1679 01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:49,000 Speaker 1: Hill and that's where ultimately Phelps killed his buck. It's nothing, 1680 01:44:49,000 --> 01:44:50,920 Speaker 1: you guess. It was interesting is there were some cattle 1681 01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:55,400 Speaker 1: that never even lift their heads so unfaced. The cat 1682 01:44:55,479 --> 01:44:59,840 Speaker 1: ran right past him. They just kept feeding, scrambling a 1683 01:45:00,240 --> 01:45:04,960 Speaker 1: everywhere and nuts. Because Bridget when she was range finding, 1684 01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:06,880 Speaker 1: had lost a buck until we like I got her 1685 01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:09,000 Speaker 1: back on. He's up by the dead yucka and in 1686 01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:12,080 Speaker 1: that view was my buck or that buck a cow 1687 01:45:12,200 --> 01:45:15,000 Speaker 1: and then the cougar and that that cow did not 1688 01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:17,400 Speaker 1: care that buck. He was out of there. He just 1689 01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:22,000 Speaker 1: it ran by him two yards away. The cowboys here, uh, 1690 01:45:22,200 --> 01:45:26,760 Speaker 1: we were asking about the you know and very very 1691 01:45:27,080 --> 01:45:31,479 Speaker 1: broken Spanish. Um. We hacked our way through figuring out 1692 01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:36,280 Speaker 1: that there are a problem only on the caves on 1693 01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:39,200 Speaker 1: the calves, not a problem on the grown ups. I 1694 01:45:39,240 --> 01:45:42,920 Speaker 1: had a very good moment with with the with the 1695 01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:45,400 Speaker 1: cowboy out here though, telling them about your story of 1696 01:45:45,400 --> 01:45:48,600 Speaker 1: the mountain line. Oh, he understood it completely. I was like, 1697 01:45:49,479 --> 01:45:57,160 Speaker 1: Poma vanana, big hand motions, banana. And then I said, 1698 01:45:58,080 --> 01:45:59,559 Speaker 1: but he didn't get it, you know, And I was 1699 01:45:59,640 --> 01:46:07,960 Speaker 1: like like, oh, it's very cool. It was one of 1700 01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:10,360 Speaker 1: the coolest things I've seen in the woods, you know what. 1701 01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:15,200 Speaker 1: We everybody good, Yeah, thank you in the awesome trip. Thanks, 1702 01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:17,920 Speaker 1: it's been good alright, everybody, thanks for joining