WEBVTT - Mackenzie | Betrayal Weekly

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<v Speaker 1>I literally just saw red. I started crying and kept saying,

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<v Speaker 1>I can't believe it. I can't believe it. There's no way,

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<v Speaker 1>there's no way. And the first thing I do is

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<v Speaker 1>get my phone and I probably said like I fucking

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<v Speaker 1>hate you or something like that. What she replies back

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<v Speaker 1>is where are you right now? Not what are you

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<v Speaker 1>talking about?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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<v Speaker 2>the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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<v Speaker 2>change everything.

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<v Speaker 1>I can go to a middy who I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I cry first dances with dads dead.

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<v Speaker 2>That's mckentie. She's the kind of person who has a

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<v Speaker 2>heart exterior is a big softy on the inside.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm on the floor. It's so a big baby. I

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<v Speaker 1>just love love.

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<v Speaker 2>And she has a story unlike any we've ever heard.

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<v Speaker 2>It starts as the story of two sisters, Mackenzie and

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<v Speaker 2>her older sister who were calling Lee.

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<v Speaker 1>She was my very best friend, shared a bedroom. We

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<v Speaker 1>would dance and sing to backsheet boys and in sync

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<v Speaker 1>all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>As kids, Mackenzie and Lee did everything together.

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<v Speaker 1>We were attached at the hip for a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>She used to make me come to her sleepovers because

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<v Speaker 1>she would get homesick, So me, as an eight year old,

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<v Speaker 1>would be coming along to these like cool preteen sleepovers

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<v Speaker 1>with all of her best friends.

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<v Speaker 2>Even though Mackenzie was three years younger than.

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<v Speaker 1>Lee, I was the bigger little sister, so I was

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<v Speaker 1>I was taller than Lee. I acted like the older sibling,

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<v Speaker 1>so I would take care of her.

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<v Speaker 2>For a while, Mackenzie tried to be just like her

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<v Speaker 2>older sister.

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<v Speaker 1>She had so many friends, and all of her friends

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<v Speaker 1>were pretty, and she had so many guy friends, and

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<v Speaker 1>so many guys liked her. So I just always wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to be in her realm to see how does she

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<v Speaker 1>do it? Because I couldn't figure out, for the life

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<v Speaker 1>of me how to connect with men. So I'm watching

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<v Speaker 1>her with boys. I was, oh, I gotta watch my

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<v Speaker 1>big sister.

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<v Speaker 2>But as they grew up, Mackenzie became her own person.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a comboy. I don't want to wear a dress.

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<v Speaker 1>I was very athletic and very good at softball. My

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<v Speaker 1>goal at that point was I'm going to get a

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<v Speaker 1>scholarship go to school in the States, and then I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to try to get to the Olympics. Fifteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Canada softball became McKenzie's life. Her sister played two, but

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<v Speaker 2>she didn't take it as seriously as Mackenzie.

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<v Speaker 1>She played high level, so she had tournaments and stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>but she was a huge, huge party or in high school.

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<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie was three years younger. They were in different stages

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<v Speaker 2>of their life.

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<v Speaker 1>Lee's off getting drunk in a field somewhere, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>the one that's like, can I have twenty dollars to do?

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<v Speaker 1>In the movies on Friday.

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<v Speaker 2>Lee was cool, but she wasn't too cool to have

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<v Speaker 2>her younger sister around.

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<v Speaker 1>This is my cool sister, Like she's graduated and we're

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<v Speaker 1>listening to Lose That by Eminem in the car in

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<v Speaker 1>our Toyota Echo.

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<v Speaker 2>After Lee graduated from high school, she moved in with

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<v Speaker 2>her boyfriend.

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<v Speaker 1>And then he cheated on her, so she ends up

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<v Speaker 1>moving back home.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the early two thousands and Facebook was brand new.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone was navigating social media for the first time.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course Lee's pretty, so she had something up

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<v Speaker 1>where it's like two thousand friends, and I remember Lee

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<v Speaker 1>came to me and was like, Oh, I'm talking to

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<v Speaker 1>this guy that added me on Facebook.

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<v Speaker 2>Lee showed Mackenzie a photo of the guy who had

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<v Speaker 2>reached out to her. His name was Ryan.

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<v Speaker 1>He was very good looking and muscular, kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>buzz cut, dark eyes, really nice smile, ripped all that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff when you're nineteen turning twenty you're looking for.

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<v Speaker 2>But it wasn't just about Ryan's looks. Lee had been

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<v Speaker 2>sharing her writing on Facebook and he had taken the

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<v Speaker 2>time to read it.

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<v Speaker 1>She's like, he messaged me saying he really clicked with

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<v Speaker 1>my poetry and he really liked it.

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<v Speaker 2>It was sweet. Mackenzie looked at Ryan's Facebook profile and

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<v Speaker 2>noticed that they had a shared mutual friend Lee's softball

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<v Speaker 2>teammate Amy.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like, oh, well, did you pop Dan

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<v Speaker 1>me and Lee? She's like, yeah, Actually she texted me

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<v Speaker 1>and said, oh, how do you know Ryan? And obviously

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<v Speaker 1>Lee he's like, well, I don't. He had me on Facebook.

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<v Speaker 2>It was re assuring for Lee to talk to somebody

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<v Speaker 2>that knew Ryan in real life.

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<v Speaker 1>Amy's like, oh, when I was in Calgary, he was

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<v Speaker 1>living there and we worked together for like a year,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's one of my really good friends. He's such

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<v Speaker 1>a good guy.

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<v Speaker 2>Lee and Ryan started talking. They got along really well

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<v Speaker 2>and would spend hours each day messaging back and forth.

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<v Speaker 2>Even though they lived in different cities, they found creative

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<v Speaker 2>ways to have long distance states. Within a few months.

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<v Speaker 1>They are literally Facebook official. They both have it on

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<v Speaker 1>their Facebook.

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<v Speaker 2>In December of two thousand and nine, Mackenzie was going

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<v Speaker 2>through her first real breakup. Lee encouraged Sure to get

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<v Speaker 2>back on the dating scene.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, he's like, oh, Ryan wants to talk to you. No,

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<v Speaker 1>like you want to talk to me, Like, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>He says he has a cousin that you'd really like.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, oh, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Ryan reached out to McKenzie to vouch for his cousin.

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<v Speaker 1>You guys would really get along. He really likes baseball,

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<v Speaker 1>all this kind of stuff, And I'm like, okay, if

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<v Speaker 1>you're vouching for him, Ryan's a great guy, so I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna listen.

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<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie decided to give this guy a shot. His name

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<v Speaker 2>was Matt. He and Ryan both lived on the East

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<v Speaker 2>Coast of Canada, which was far away from the sisters.

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<v Speaker 1>So it wasn't like just getting the car and drive here.

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<v Speaker 1>It was airplane six hoverflight hyper deal.

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<v Speaker 2>After dating long distance for months, Ryan started planning his

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<v Speaker 2>first trip to visit Lee.

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<v Speaker 1>He was supposed to come Christmas Eve. So we're looking

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<v Speaker 1>forward to meeting him. My parents were like okay with

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<v Speaker 1>him staying here. But then four days before he messages

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<v Speaker 1>Lee and tells her that he can't come.

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<v Speaker 2>Ryan's mom had cancer and her health had started declining.

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<v Speaker 2>He was no longer willing to miss Christmas with her.

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<v Speaker 1>Lee is beside herself. She's absolutely heartbroken because this was

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<v Speaker 1>going to be their first meeting.

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<v Speaker 2>Ryan felt horrible for canceling the trip to He had

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<v Speaker 2>a special Christmas gift plan for Lee, and in order

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure it got to her on time, he

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<v Speaker 2>solicited the help of their mutual friend Amy.

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas Eve rolls around and Amy shows up with this box,

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<v Speaker 1>hands it to Lee and it's a Bill de bear

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<v Speaker 1>And in the card it says, because I can't be

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<v Speaker 1>there and this is my replacement, like hug him and

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<v Speaker 1>sleep with him. So that night on she's sleeping with

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<v Speaker 1>this bear.

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<v Speaker 2>Everything light As Lee and her boyfriend Ryan got more serious,

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<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie was starting to develop a crush on his cousin Matt.

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<v Speaker 2>He'd become a part of her daily life.

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<v Speaker 1>He was always, you know, messaging me every morning, making

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<v Speaker 1>sure I got up and pushing me to go to

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<v Speaker 1>my practices and stuff like that, and then we would

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<v Speaker 1>we'd talk baseball because he was a Yankees fan, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>a Blue Jays fan, so we would kind of chirp

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<v Speaker 1>each other about baseball a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>But Matt wanted their relationship to be deeper than just

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<v Speaker 2>chatting about sports.

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<v Speaker 1>It just kind of slowly turned into, like him kind

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<v Speaker 1>of saying, I want to date you, I want to

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<v Speaker 1>bet with you.

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<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie felt the same way, but she really wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>meet him in person before they made things official.

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<v Speaker 1>I am very big on face to base interaction. I

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<v Speaker 1>need to have that connection before I can say we

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<v Speaker 1>can meet boyfriend and girlfriend type feel.

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<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie was cautious, but Matt was really making an effort

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<v Speaker 2>and that meant a lot to her. Their jokes and

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<v Speaker 2>sports banter turned to deeper conversations and a real.

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<v Speaker 1>Connection, validating my feelings and making sure I feel heard

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<v Speaker 1>and he would call me babe and baby and all

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Matt and Ryan hung out a lot and sent the

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<v Speaker 2>girls photos of their adventures hiking together, spending time with family,

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<v Speaker 2>or just small moments in their daily routines. Their friend

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<v Speaker 2>Amy was happy her matchmaking skills had been such a success.

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<v Speaker 1>Amy is talking with Lee sporadically, checking in on how

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<v Speaker 1>her and Ryan are doing and that kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Plus it was kind of fun for Mackenzie and Lee

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<v Speaker 2>to be dating cousins.

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<v Speaker 1>Me and Lee will say we're watching a movie and

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<v Speaker 1>then we have Matt and Ryan pressing play on the

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<v Speaker 1>same time.

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<v Speaker 2>They'd watch rom coms together. It was sweet. But Lee

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<v Speaker 2>and Mackenzie were growing tired of the long distance. They

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<v Speaker 2>would try to plan visits with Matt and Ryan, but

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<v Speaker 2>it never seemed to be the right time.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just always, no, you know this, my mom's

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<v Speaker 1>immune compromise. You can't come here. There's no place for

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<v Speaker 1>you to stay. Right now. I'm trying to figure out

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<v Speaker 1>stuff with my mom. I have classes too often, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to be working too much. I'm like, well, shit,

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<v Speaker 1>they have such a hard life. And then well, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>such a bad person for trying to put my feelings first.

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<v Speaker 2>Lee, I had never had an online relationship before. It

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<v Speaker 2>was taking a toll on her.

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<v Speaker 1>It was endless of her drinking, coming home and she's crying,

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<v Speaker 1>and she's coming into my bedroom and she's talking about Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>she's fighting with Ryan and it's her, you know, missing

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<v Speaker 1>shifts at work. Her friends are now very few and

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<v Speaker 1>far between. They don't believe that you can fall in

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<v Speaker 1>love with somebody over the internet. So Lee is now

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<v Speaker 1>at this point, you know, she's losing her best friend,

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<v Speaker 1>she's losing her friend group, the people that she usually

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<v Speaker 1>turns to. I'm now her best friend because I'm in

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<v Speaker 1>a similar circumstance.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole situation brought the sisters closer together. McKenzie was

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<v Speaker 2>at a crossroads. She was graduating high school and thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about her future. Beckenzie had spent her whole life working

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<v Speaker 2>towards a career as a professional softball player, and now

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<v Speaker 2>she was debating if that was the right choice.

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<v Speaker 1>I just kind of I got to the point where

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to be just that's what my identity was.

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<v Speaker 1>Because my identity, that's all people associated me with. Mackenzie

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<v Speaker 1>just plays off all that's what she does.

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<v Speaker 2>So McKenzie made a hard decision. She decided not to

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<v Speaker 2>go to college.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to take any of my scholarships.

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<v Speaker 2>If she wasn't in school, she would need a job.

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<v Speaker 2>When she was lost on what to do, Matt had

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<v Speaker 2>an idea.

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<v Speaker 1>Matt let me know that Amy works for a construction

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<v Speaker 1>company and she can probably get me a job.

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<v Speaker 2>Amy worked in construction and Matt did too. He told

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<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie more about how the industry worked.

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<v Speaker 1>I was going, Yeah, that's totally at my alley, different

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<v Speaker 1>every day to go into different job sites and all

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of stuff. So I was like, yeah, forget

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<v Speaker 1>Matt says, hey, just give her a text and she

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<v Speaker 1>can probably get you a job.

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<v Speaker 2>She texted Amy and submitted her resume. Two weeks later,

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<v Speaker 2>she was hired for the job.

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<v Speaker 1>My first day, I was super nervous. Amy offered to

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<v Speaker 1>come on the day off, introduced me to everybody that

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<v Speaker 1>worked there. Day was like, Wow, she's really down to earth.

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<v Speaker 1>She's really chill, you know, she's a tomboy like me,

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<v Speaker 1>very easy to talk to, funny, that kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't believe she would go out of her way

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<v Speaker 1>to try to make me feel comfortable. That's really nice

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<v Speaker 1>of her. From that point on, we became best friends

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<v Speaker 1>pretty quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>After graduating high school, Mackenzie took a job in construction

0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.360
<v Speaker 2>with a mutual friend named Amy. Amy had played softball

0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.960
<v Speaker 2>in high school with Mackenzie's sister Lee, but the sisters

0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.559
<v Speaker 2>also knew her through their long distance boyfriends, and over time,

0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.079
<v Speaker 2>mackenzie's friendship with Amy grew.

0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.720
<v Speaker 1>We worked together almost every day. She'd come over to

0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.920
<v Speaker 1>our house a lot. She was very funny and she

0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:22.000
<v Speaker 1>was very outgoing and just easy to be around. She

0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:26.880
<v Speaker 1>would come over. We'd watched Jersey Shore every Thursday together. Jersdays,

0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.959
<v Speaker 1>you know this, bumps pushed up chapstick. It was best

0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.520
<v Speaker 1>and her and I like, I could just be me

0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.600
<v Speaker 1>and she was the same. So we fed off each other.

0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:41.319
<v Speaker 1>You just have two freaking weird people together and that's

0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:41.840
<v Speaker 1>a vibe.

0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:47.559
<v Speaker 2>Amy never really dated anyone. When Mackenzie asked her about it,

0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.120
<v Speaker 2>she explained that it was because of her faith.

0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.440
<v Speaker 1>She's like, I just I'm Christian and literally wearing a

0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.400
<v Speaker 1>purity ring like Jonah's brother's stuff, shout out to Jonah's

0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 1>brothers and she but she had a cross on. She

0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.480
<v Speaker 1>was like, that's just how I was raised.

0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.960
<v Speaker 2>But McKenzie liked sharing her love life with Amy, especially

0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.719
<v Speaker 2>because Amy knew her boyfriend.

0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.400
<v Speaker 1>He was my kind of outlet, being like, why is

0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.719
<v Speaker 1>Matt being crazy today? I need you to talk to him.

0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:18.720
<v Speaker 1>We're same with Lee.

0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 2>McKenzie and Matt's relationship was steady, but Lee and Ryan

0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.680
<v Speaker 2>were really struggling with the distance because Ryan still hadn't

0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:28.640
<v Speaker 2>come to visit.

0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Every other day. They're arguing, like, why aren't you coming here?

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.600
<v Speaker 1>And you know my mom's sick, you know I was

0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.000
<v Speaker 1>in a car accident, you know Matt's not doing well.

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 1>It was very much telling Lee, why are you making

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.720
<v Speaker 1>me feel bad when my life is in shambles and

0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.040
<v Speaker 1>you're supposed to be supporting me. You're supposed to be

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:48.760
<v Speaker 1>my better half.

0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.120
<v Speaker 2>For Mackenzie's nineteenth birthday, Lee and Amy decided to take

0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:55.600
<v Speaker 2>her out to a bar to celebrate, but as soon

0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.080
<v Speaker 2>as they got there, Lee's.

0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 1>Arguing with Ryan even on my birthday, bbming each other.

0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.040
<v Speaker 1>He's getting mad at her that she's drinking, saying she's

0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.800
<v Speaker 1>drinking too much. Amy's being super weird.

0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.360
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie chalked it up to the fact that Amy didn't drink.

0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 1>She's like, I need to leave, and I'm kind of like,

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.760
<v Speaker 1>we just got here. I just had my second beer.

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.960
<v Speaker 1>She had left my birthday and then the whole night,

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Lee and Ryan are arguing.

0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:28.120
<v Speaker 2>The relationship between Lee and Ryan was just plain unhealthy.

0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Lee is now not going out with her friends. Her

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.560
<v Speaker 1>friends didn't get the online relationship. Why she was adamant

0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 1>that she had to be with this man. This was

0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.800
<v Speaker 1>her bl end doll. She's not leaving her room. I

0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.520
<v Speaker 1>can hear her crying yourself to sleep most night. I

0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 1>can hear She'll send videos to him of her crying

0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:51.080
<v Speaker 1>and yelling and stuff like that.

0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie would talk to Amy about her and Lee's relationship issues,

0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.200
<v Speaker 2>but often Amy would side with the guys.

0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:05.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm at work and Amy's being weird and super angry,

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.280
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, what is wrong? I understand Ryan's your

0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.240
<v Speaker 1>best friend, but you don't need to involve yourself that

0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.240
<v Speaker 1>much into their arguments. Would be talking with Matt Men.

0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.360
<v Speaker 1>I would say something and it would piss him off,

0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.880
<v Speaker 1>and sure enough Amy's giving me the you know, the

0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:28.040
<v Speaker 1>cold shoulder, and it just was like this cycle of toxicity.

0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Amy couldn't help but get involved in their relationships, especially

0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Lee and Ryan's.

0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 1>We would be on a drive and then Amy would

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.280
<v Speaker 1>just turn to me and be like, so, your sister

0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.560
<v Speaker 1>and Ryan are fighting. And I'm like, when are they

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.040
<v Speaker 1>not fighting? And She's like, yeah, what does your sister

0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.920
<v Speaker 1>said about Ryan? Like, what does she feel and I'm like,

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.320
<v Speaker 1>she's in love with him. I don't think it really matters. Well,

0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:57.960
<v Speaker 1>I think it does matter. And I'm like, well, it's

0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 1>not your relationships. I don't I don't understand why you're

0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 1>asking this. Well, is she talking to any guys when

0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:10.240
<v Speaker 1>she goes out? And I'm like, no, I don't see it.

0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.439
<v Speaker 1>She's will you go with her sometimes you go to

0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:17.359
<v Speaker 1>the bars. I'm like, I don't think it matters. Amy like,

0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 1>we're literally we're going to get we run to Sound eleven,

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:22.480
<v Speaker 1>We're getting slur face and we're getting a two dollar

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.360
<v Speaker 1>candy bag. We don't need to worry about this right now.

0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.679
<v Speaker 2>It was weird how Amy would involve herself, but McKenzie

0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:35.320
<v Speaker 2>tried to ignore it. At this point in their friendship.

0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:39.280
<v Speaker 2>It was twenty ten. A documentary came out that everybody

0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.560
<v Speaker 2>was talking about. Ryan recommended it to Lee.

0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.240
<v Speaker 1>It's called catfish, and we never heard the term.

0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.960
<v Speaker 2>These days, catfishing stories feel like a part of the zeitgeist,

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:55.720
<v Speaker 2>but back in twenty ten, this was a brand new concept.

0:17:56.040 --> 0:18:00.119
<v Speaker 1>Facebook's fresh out the gate. We all are kind of

0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.880
<v Speaker 1>getting used to what's going on. Instagram's not even out yet.

0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:06.800
<v Speaker 1>You trust that everyone is who they say they are.

0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.840
<v Speaker 2>McKenzie was curious about the Catfish documentary.

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.159
<v Speaker 1>I had talked to Matt, and Matt's like, yeah, I

0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.920
<v Speaker 1>watched it. It's a really good movie. I think it's

0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.280
<v Speaker 1>something you guys should watch to put your mind at ease.

0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.920
<v Speaker 1>Abous we have Amy then saying, oh, we can watch

0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:28.760
<v Speaker 1>it together. So now it's me Lee and Amy and

0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:33.080
<v Speaker 1>we're watching Catfish together. We're like, I couldn't even imagine

0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 1>if that happened to us. That would be devastating. Lee

0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:38.679
<v Speaker 1>is just like, I'm so glad I found the love

0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.359
<v Speaker 1>of my life. I'm gonna marry and have kids with

0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.159
<v Speaker 1>And I'm glad he told us to watch this movie together.

0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.040
<v Speaker 1>I would be absolutely mortified if that ever happened to me.

0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:49.800
<v Speaker 1>I can't believe you didn't see the songs.

0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.400
<v Speaker 2>At first, it was fun that Mackenzie and Lee's boyfriends

0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.119
<v Speaker 2>were cousins and that their best friend Amy knew the

0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.480
<v Speaker 2>guys too. All of her favorite people knew each other.

0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.080
<v Speaker 2>But as time went on, Mackenzie started to feel like

0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:05.600
<v Speaker 2>she was stuck in the middle of a complicated web.

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.719
<v Speaker 2>As Lee's relationship with Ryan got worse, it became too

0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:11.200
<v Speaker 2>much drama for McKenzie.

0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.600
<v Speaker 1>Lee's fighting with Ryan, and then Ryan's trying to talk

0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:19.560
<v Speaker 1>to me because he wants me to calm her down.

0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.040
<v Speaker 1>And then I had Matt talking to me saying, this

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.240
<v Speaker 1>is really bad for Lee and Ryan. You need to help.

0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.880
<v Speaker 1>And then I have freaking Amy also being like Ryan

0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.119
<v Speaker 1>told me they're fighting, and I'm like, I can't do

0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:32.840
<v Speaker 1>this anymore.

0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:38.399
<v Speaker 2>So in January of twenty eleven, Mackenzie broke up with Matt.

0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.679
<v Speaker 2>She told Lee that she needed space from the whole situation,

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.440
<v Speaker 2>especially her sister's toxic relationship.

0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.560
<v Speaker 1>When I stopped talking to Matt, I think that was

0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.000
<v Speaker 1>really really hard on her because at this point I

0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:56.959
<v Speaker 1>just can't listen to it, and so now you know

0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:58.600
<v Speaker 1>she's alone in this.

0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Essentially, Mackenzie saw the damage that Lee's relationship with Ryan

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:09.720
<v Speaker 2>was causing. She hardly recognized her vibrant, outgoing older sister.

0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:16.160
<v Speaker 1>It just progressively was just her shutting herself off from

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.359
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the world. You can see her just deteriorating.

0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.120
<v Speaker 1>She got really, really, really skinny, and it just was, Yeah,

0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:25.800
<v Speaker 1>it's heartbreaking.

0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.320
<v Speaker 2>McKenzie wasn't in a rush to be in another relationship.

0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Matt on the other hand, we did no time finding

0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:34.679
<v Speaker 2>a new girlfriend.

0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.920
<v Speaker 1>One of my best friends approached me and she said, Hey,

0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.080
<v Speaker 1>I just want to let you know that Matt has

0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.959
<v Speaker 1>messaged me and are you okay if we start talking?

0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.439
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, you know what, girl, do you

0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.840
<v Speaker 1>want that freaking bag of worms? You want all that drama?

0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.600
<v Speaker 1>All the power to you, sister. So they started talking.

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.600
<v Speaker 2>But after a few months, Mackenzie's friend noticed something weird

0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:00.679
<v Speaker 2>about her conversation with Matt.

0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:06.959
<v Speaker 1>She brought up the fact that when her and Amy

0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:12.199
<v Speaker 1>hang out and she would text Matt, it seemed like

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:18.359
<v Speaker 1>Amy's boone was going off. It would vibrate when he

0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:22.199
<v Speaker 1>was messaging Matt. I kind of brushed it off, I said, honestly,

0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:24.199
<v Speaker 1>I think it might just be a coincidence. Her and

0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.440
<v Speaker 1>Matt and Ryan are always talking. Amy's also always talking

0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:31.680
<v Speaker 1>to me. It's probably just that kind of thing. And

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:33.880
<v Speaker 1>she's a gay right.

0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:38.680
<v Speaker 2>But later that night, dalt started to creep into Mackenzie's

0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:42.960
<v Speaker 2>mind for the first time, she let herself consider the

0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:48.320
<v Speaker 2>question what if Matt and Ryan weren't real? As she

0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:52.119
<v Speaker 2>thought back on their relationship, little details that seemed like

0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.320
<v Speaker 2>nothing at the time all started to add.

0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Up, all the gifts we've gotten are hand given to

0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:04.600
<v Speaker 1>us from Amy, never in the mail, never got an address.

0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:10.560
<v Speaker 1>And then I had a blanket was handmade from Matt,

0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:15.280
<v Speaker 1>and Amy has the same exact handmade blanket that she

0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:19.360
<v Speaker 1>made Matt and Ryan also worked for a construction company

0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:22.600
<v Speaker 1>that is exactly the same as what Amy and I did.

0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Finally, it all clicked.

0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:29.720
<v Speaker 1>I just was like, Yeah, I think Amy is Matt.

0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Could this be true? Were the sisters talking to Amy

0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:38.439
<v Speaker 2>the entire time? Could Amy have invented not one, but

0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.399
<v Speaker 2>two fake boyfriends. Mackenzie needed proof.

0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Now Mackenzie is a detective and I am all over this.

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie knew that Ryan would often send Lee photos of

0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:55.280
<v Speaker 2>the construction sites he worked at.

0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:58.800
<v Speaker 1>I ended up messaging Lee and I said, if he

0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:02.880
<v Speaker 1>sends you any photos of job sites at, please send

0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:03.320
<v Speaker 1>them to me.

0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Ryan worked in construction all the way across the country

0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:10.960
<v Speaker 2>in eastern Canada. If he was really who he said

0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:15.000
<v Speaker 2>he was, Mackenzie should have no way of recognizing the sites.

0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:19.680
<v Speaker 2>But if it was really Amy, this could be Mackenzie's

0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:24.600
<v Speaker 2>chance to catch her in a lie. And finally she

0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:29.720
<v Speaker 2>got a clue. Lee forwarded a photo Ryan had sent her.

0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:31.480
<v Speaker 2>He said it was from one of his.

0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.760
<v Speaker 1>Work sites, and it's this picture of this really really

0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:39.000
<v Speaker 1>high end bar of a really really nice house. The

0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:42.360
<v Speaker 1>light pictures super unique. You'll never see it in any

0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:46.000
<v Speaker 1>other type of house. I textedly and I said, oh,

0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:49.240
<v Speaker 1>did Ryan send you this today? And she goes, oh, yeah,

0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:50.640
<v Speaker 1>he just sent it to me. He said he wants

0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:53.040
<v Speaker 1>to put that in our house. He's going to build

0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:56.439
<v Speaker 1>it for me. And so what I do is I

0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:59.440
<v Speaker 1>take that photo. And there's one person that I work

0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:04.080
<v Speaker 1>with and I told my suspicions of and so I

0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:06.919
<v Speaker 1>emailed it to her and I said, you're working with

0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 1>Amy today? Is this the site you're at? And my

0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:18.440
<v Speaker 1>coworker sends me back, I'm so sorry, Mackenzie. I saw

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.320
<v Speaker 1>Amy sit down take a photo of that light fixture

0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:23.360
<v Speaker 1>and talk about how much she liked it and how

0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:24.920
<v Speaker 1>she wants it in her future house.

0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:49.840
<v Speaker 2>One day, McKenzie suspected her friend Amy might be catfishing

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:53.560
<v Speaker 2>both her and her sister Lee. One day, her sister's

0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:56.679
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend sent her a photo of a light fixture and

0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:58.800
<v Speaker 2>said he wanted it to be in their future house.

0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:03.000
<v Speaker 2>One day, McKenzie texted her coworker who was working on

0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:07.880
<v Speaker 2>site with Amy, and asked if the photo looked familiar, and.

0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:14.920
<v Speaker 1>My coworker sends me back, I'm so sorry, Mackenzie. I

0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:18.960
<v Speaker 1>saw Amy sit down, take a photo of that light

0:25:19.040 --> 0:25:21.199
<v Speaker 1>fixture and talk about how much she liked it and

0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:23.000
<v Speaker 1>how she wants it in her future house.

0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:26.280
<v Speaker 2>One day, Mackenzie was mad.

0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:36.800
<v Speaker 1>I literally just saw red. I started crying and kept saying,

0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:39.480
<v Speaker 1>I can't believe it. I can't believe it. There's no way.

0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:41.960
<v Speaker 2>She grabs her phone and texted Amy.

0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:45.719
<v Speaker 1>I said, I can't believe you could watch my sister

0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:50.520
<v Speaker 1>all into this deep depression for two years, lose all

0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:51.240
<v Speaker 1>of her friends.

0:25:51.640 --> 0:25:53.359
<v Speaker 2>Amy responded right away.

0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:57.880
<v Speaker 1>What she replies back is where are you right now?

0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm coming to see you. I'm like, oh no, no, but

0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:02.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to see you.

0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:06.560
<v Speaker 2>Next, Mackenzie called her sister. She had to break the

0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:09.400
<v Speaker 2>news that her boyfriend, who she had been in love

0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:14.480
<v Speaker 2>with for years, was actually their friend Amy hiding behind

0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:15.040
<v Speaker 2>a screen.

0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:21.160
<v Speaker 1>I called Lee right away and I told her. And

0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:26.080
<v Speaker 1>when we got home and I was telling my parents,

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:32.119
<v Speaker 1>Lee was basically just sitting on the couch, not really

0:26:32.160 --> 0:26:36.320
<v Speaker 1>having a reaction. And she's like, no, I'm talking. I'm

0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:40.160
<v Speaker 1>talking with Ryan. He's real. Maybe Matt's her, but Ryan's real.

0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie was stunned. She was not prepared for this reaction.

0:26:44.600 --> 0:26:46.520
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, Lee, what are you talking about? It's

0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:48.760
<v Speaker 1>all here, it does you can't have Matt without the

0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:51.600
<v Speaker 1>other that like, what do you mean? I was so

0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:55.600
<v Speaker 1>mad because I'm giving you the reasoning of why we

0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 1>haven't seen these people.

0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Finally, they had answers, but Lee didn't want to hear them.

0:27:03.800 --> 0:27:06.679
<v Speaker 1>Nobody could say anything to her. She'd be like, no,

0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:10.560
<v Speaker 1>that's just not true because she was so infatuated in

0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:15.880
<v Speaker 1>love with this man. They've talked about their wedding, they

0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:17.920
<v Speaker 1>have their names of their kids picked out.

0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Lee felt so far away. Nothing Mackenzie said seemed to

0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:25.560
<v Speaker 2>reach her. She was used to sharing everything with her

0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:29.800
<v Speaker 2>older sister. Lee was the only person who understood every

0:27:29.920 --> 0:27:33.560
<v Speaker 2>inch of her world, but in that moment, it felt

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:35.800
<v Speaker 2>like they were on different planets, which.

0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:40.639
<v Speaker 1>Kind of began the deterioration of our friendship me and

0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:48.159
<v Speaker 1>my sister. Was how angry I was and how she

0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:53.399
<v Speaker 1>continued to believe that this individual was a real person.

0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie knew that in order for her sister. To come

0:27:56.400 --> 0:27:59.359
<v Speaker 2>to terms with the truth, Lee would need to hear

0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:03.600
<v Speaker 2>it from me herself, so they decided to confront Amy

0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:04.600
<v Speaker 2>at her home.

0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:08.119
<v Speaker 1>Amy wouldn't come out of the house. We met with

0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:13.480
<v Speaker 1>her mom, and her mom had no idea who Matt

0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Ryan are, even though she said that Matt Ryan know

0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 1>her mom and all this stuff. Amy finally came out

0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:31.560
<v Speaker 1>after half an hour and said that Matt isn't real.

0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Matt is my friend Sam, but Ryan is real. Looks

0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Lee straightly. I swear to you he is real. I've

0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:44.360
<v Speaker 1>touched him.

0:28:44.800 --> 0:28:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie was fuming. Amy had spent years tricking her and

0:28:49.040 --> 0:28:52.440
<v Speaker 2>her sister into falling in love with guys that didn't exist.

0:28:53.160 --> 0:28:58.440
<v Speaker 2>She had controlled their lives, manipulated their emotions, cause Lee's

0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:02.560
<v Speaker 2>health to deteriorate, and now when they had proof of

0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 2>her betrayal, she was still standing in front of them

0:29:06.280 --> 0:29:07.160
<v Speaker 2>and denying it.

0:29:07.640 --> 0:29:13.800
<v Speaker 1>I looked at Amy and I said, so, your friend

0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:16.160
<v Speaker 1>Sam started talking to me as a joke and she

0:29:16.240 --> 0:29:19.400
<v Speaker 1>said yeah. I said, and you knew he was talking

0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:21.360
<v Speaker 1>to me as a joke and she said yes, And

0:29:21.360 --> 0:29:24.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, and you knew I was going through depression

0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:27.120
<v Speaker 1>and getting diagnosed with anxiety. And she said yes, And

0:29:27.160 --> 0:29:31.560
<v Speaker 1>I said, and you thought that would be funny? And

0:29:31.600 --> 0:29:33.280
<v Speaker 1>she said, well, I didn't know you. And I said

0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:35.600
<v Speaker 1>I even if I didn't know you, I wouldn't allow

0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 1>someone to do that to you.

0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie gave Amy one last chance to tell the full truth.

0:29:40.720 --> 0:29:42.240
<v Speaker 1>I asked her, I want you to look me in

0:29:42.240 --> 0:29:45.000
<v Speaker 1>the eye and tell me that Ryan is real. And

0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:49.600
<v Speaker 1>Amy looked me in the eye and said yes. And

0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:54.200
<v Speaker 1>that day I basically walked out of her house and.

0:29:54.080 --> 0:30:01.560
<v Speaker 3>I said to Lee that if she ever admits us

0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:06.440
<v Speaker 3>one day, she had her chance to tell us, like, she's.

0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:11.960
<v Speaker 1>In love with you, Lee. And Lee's like, you know, Mackenzie,

0:30:12.160 --> 0:30:14.760
<v Speaker 1>if he told you Matt isn't real at somebody else,

0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:17.920
<v Speaker 1>So just get over it. No, Ryan's real.

0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Lee's response was devastating.

0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:24.160
<v Speaker 1>I found out months later, six months later that she

0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:28.440
<v Speaker 1>was still talking with Ryan after she told me she wasn't.

0:30:28.760 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 1>And I just want to pick her up and shake her.

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:33.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, how can you not see this?

0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:37.560
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie and her parents went to the police, hoping that

0:30:37.640 --> 0:30:39.640
<v Speaker 2>they could do something to stop Amy.

0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:45.920
<v Speaker 1>We saw an officer and basically it was just are

0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:49.360
<v Speaker 1>they using like SIN numbers, which is social insurance numbers.

0:30:50.160 --> 0:30:53.200
<v Speaker 1>It's like no, it's like, well, they're not technically feeling

0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:56.680
<v Speaker 1>an identity, they're just using their photos, so it's not

0:30:56.720 --> 0:31:00.840
<v Speaker 1>a crime. And my parents were just like, well, she's

0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:03.640
<v Speaker 1>going to keep doing this. She's obviously going to keep

0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:08.640
<v Speaker 1>talking to people and hurting people's lives and you know,

0:31:09.520 --> 0:31:12.680
<v Speaker 1>and they're like, all we can say is like, don't

0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:15.000
<v Speaker 1>add people you don't know, and don't talk to them.

0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:18.080
<v Speaker 2>Shortly after that, Lee moved to Toronto.

0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:19.720
<v Speaker 1>Basically she ran away.

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:25.800
<v Speaker 2>To this day, Lee's never admitted that Ryan wasn't real.

0:31:26.840 --> 0:31:30.200
<v Speaker 1>In reality, Lee fell in love. You want to choose

0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:33.160
<v Speaker 1>to believe that the people that you end up loving

0:31:34.160 --> 0:31:38.400
<v Speaker 1>are good, and choosing to believe it is easier than

0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:41.960
<v Speaker 1>accepting the fact that you've been talking to somebody who

0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:45.800
<v Speaker 1>is not real for the past three years, who you've

0:31:45.960 --> 0:31:48.880
<v Speaker 1>fallen in love with, who's actually a woman, who you

0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:53.280
<v Speaker 1>may or may not have sent pictures and other text messages.

0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:58.040
<v Speaker 2>What was especially disturbing was that the betrayal wasn't committed

0:31:58.080 --> 0:32:02.240
<v Speaker 2>at random or by a stream. The person that did

0:32:02.240 --> 0:32:04.600
<v Speaker 2>this was Mackenzie's best friend.

0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:07.560
<v Speaker 1>This was somebody who was in my house every single day,

0:32:07.840 --> 0:32:10.920
<v Speaker 1>somebody who I told all my secrets about, you know,

0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:15.360
<v Speaker 1>like I told her how I felt with men and

0:32:15.440 --> 0:32:19.280
<v Speaker 1>my insecurities and I had intimacy issues with men, and

0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:21.840
<v Speaker 1>I was afraid of whatever, and so she knows all this.

0:32:22.880 --> 0:32:27.240
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie felt so alone. The only person that could possibly

0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:30.920
<v Speaker 2>understand what she was going through was refusing to talk

0:32:30.960 --> 0:32:31.400
<v Speaker 2>about it.

0:32:32.120 --> 0:32:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Trying to talk with my sister. I wanted to talk

0:32:36.200 --> 0:32:38.880
<v Speaker 1>about it, and she wanted to put it in a

0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:42.000
<v Speaker 1>pretty box and put it in the closet. I'm your

0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:44.840
<v Speaker 1>little sister. We're supposed to be best friends. You're supposed

0:32:44.840 --> 0:32:47.040
<v Speaker 1>to help me, You're supposed to help each other, and

0:32:47.160 --> 0:32:52.920
<v Speaker 1>instead you ran away and you chose to not talk

0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:53.440
<v Speaker 1>about it.

0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Amy caused long lasting damage to Lee and the sister's friendship.

0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:07.040
<v Speaker 1>You watch the person who idolized so much, and after

0:33:07.120 --> 0:33:13.640
<v Speaker 1>everything kind of happened, it was she just wasn't Lee anymore.

0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:16.040
<v Speaker 1>I was mad at her for a very long time.

0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Now we're better, obviously, but we're just not the same.

0:33:20.080 --> 0:33:24.040
<v Speaker 1>We're just our friendship. That relationship hasn't been the same

0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:25.400
<v Speaker 1>since everything happened.

0:33:26.160 --> 0:33:30.560
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie reached out for support and started going to therapy.

0:33:30.640 --> 0:33:34.959
<v Speaker 1>I needed that help because I was angry. I was

0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:39.920
<v Speaker 1>trying to desensitize myself from this story and put together

0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:41.320
<v Speaker 1>what the hell just happened.

0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Looking back now, Mackenzie can see why Amy's catfishing was

0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:50.320
<v Speaker 2>so convincing. She had created two characters, Matt and Ryan,

0:33:50.760 --> 0:33:54.200
<v Speaker 2>who were always confirming each other's stories. If one of

0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:56.480
<v Speaker 2>them said they were hiking, the girls would get sent

0:33:56.520 --> 0:33:59.720
<v Speaker 2>photos of Matt and Ryan together on a hike, just

0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:03.200
<v Speaker 2>like said. There was no reason to doubt it because

0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:06.440
<v Speaker 2>the idea of creating a scheme with multiple fake people

0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:08.160
<v Speaker 2>seemed so far fetched.

0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:12.640
<v Speaker 1>Once Matt was brought into it, it made it seem

0:34:13.120 --> 0:34:18.360
<v Speaker 1>more real. That's too many people who, you know what

0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean. I don't know how to explain that.

0:34:20.680 --> 0:34:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie never found out who the guys and the photos were,

0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:26.720
<v Speaker 2>but she suspects that they were real cousins or even

0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:31.160
<v Speaker 2>brothers who had public social media profiles, and Amy must

0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:33.719
<v Speaker 2>have been stealing their pictures without their knowledge.

0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:37.640
<v Speaker 1>I still have photos of them. I've reversed. I whige

0:34:37.640 --> 0:34:41.720
<v Speaker 1>searched all of them, and I can't find anything.

0:34:42.560 --> 0:34:45.879
<v Speaker 2>Amy introduced these characters at a time when both Lee

0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:49.160
<v Speaker 2>and Mackenzie really needed someone to talk to.

0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:52.279
<v Speaker 1>Matt Ryan started talking to both of us in a

0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:58.360
<v Speaker 1>very vulnerable time. Lee is very heartbroken from her previous

0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:02.439
<v Speaker 1>relationship being cheated on. I'm in kind of the same boat,

0:35:02.480 --> 0:35:06.040
<v Speaker 1>but also I'm going through depression and anxiety and I

0:35:06.080 --> 0:35:09.279
<v Speaker 1>obviously don't know how to wrap my head around that.

0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:13.880
<v Speaker 2>But this story doesn't end here, because ten years later,

0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:18.000
<v Speaker 2>the sisters both found ways move forward and heal. Lee

0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:20.640
<v Speaker 2>eventually built the life she'd always dreamed of.

0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:25.080
<v Speaker 1>Lee's doing great. She meets a guy. She has two

0:35:25.120 --> 0:35:28.160
<v Speaker 1>little kids now, little boy and a little girl, and

0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:32.000
<v Speaker 1>they are absolutely adorable and I love them so very much.

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:37.040
<v Speaker 1>She's thriving as a mom, and her husband is one

0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:39.520
<v Speaker 1>of my favorite people of all time. He's hilarious.

0:35:39.800 --> 0:35:43.360
<v Speaker 2>And Mackenzie build a life she genuinely loved too. It

0:35:43.480 --> 0:35:46.680
<v Speaker 2>started when she realized she liked girls.

0:35:47.120 --> 0:35:49.120
<v Speaker 1>It was like, yeah, okay, I've never actually kissed a

0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:52.120
<v Speaker 1>girl before kissed her and then I remember being like,

0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:58.080
<v Speaker 1>uh oh, that's what it's supposed to feel like.

0:35:58.880 --> 0:36:01.719
<v Speaker 2>She finally fell authentically herself.

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:06.960
<v Speaker 1>It was the opening of Okay, I can be me now.

0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:12.000
<v Speaker 1>I had my first girlfriend, fell in love. Then we

0:36:12.160 --> 0:36:15.040
<v Speaker 1>fast forward to twenty twenty three. I'm out living my

0:36:15.120 --> 0:36:21.240
<v Speaker 1>best life and my friend from back When Everything Happens

0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:24.319
<v Speaker 1>sends me a DM on Instagram.

0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie was surprised to hear from her. She opened the message.

0:36:30.200 --> 0:36:32.319
<v Speaker 1>Just basically saying, hey, you know, I know we don't

0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:35.719
<v Speaker 1>talk anymore, but I watched all your pictures and your

0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:38.920
<v Speaker 1>videos and I'm just so proud of you. You look

0:36:39.040 --> 0:36:43.000
<v Speaker 1>so happy. And I just said, oh, that's great. Hope

0:36:43.040 --> 0:36:47.160
<v Speaker 1>you're doing well, and she goes, I actually messaged you

0:36:47.239 --> 0:36:52.359
<v Speaker 1>because I got a message from Amy. A couple weeks ago.

0:36:53.400 --> 0:36:56.120
<v Speaker 2>Amy had reached out to Mackenzie's friend with a voice

0:36:56.120 --> 0:37:00.879
<v Speaker 2>memo confession. Mackenzie's friend send her the file and.

0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:05.000
<v Speaker 1>I play it and I hear Amy's voice and she

0:37:05.200 --> 0:37:12.480
<v Speaker 1>says it was me. It was always me. I did it.

0:37:13.520 --> 0:37:20.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, and then she says, I was struggling with

0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:24.680
<v Speaker 1>internalized homophobia and that's why I did the things I did.

0:37:27.400 --> 0:37:30.520
<v Speaker 1>I just was like, are you joking.

0:37:31.440 --> 0:37:36.480
<v Speaker 2>Internalized homophobia is when society's homophobia causes a queer person

0:37:36.560 --> 0:37:39.640
<v Speaker 2>to feel shame, guilt, or even self hatred about their

0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:44.080
<v Speaker 2>own identity. Amy was essentially saying that she had created

0:37:44.160 --> 0:37:48.000
<v Speaker 2>fake straight relationships with the sisters because she didn't feel

0:37:48.000 --> 0:37:50.240
<v Speaker 2>like she could come out as gay and be herself.

0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:55.239
<v Speaker 2>At the time, Mackenzie knew how harmful internalized homophobia could

0:37:55.280 --> 0:38:00.120
<v Speaker 2>be because she experienced it herself for years, but it

0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:02.920
<v Speaker 2>wasn't an excuse to catfish and harm people.

0:38:03.880 --> 0:38:08.359
<v Speaker 1>You're giving yourself an out to explain the shitty things

0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:12.960
<v Speaker 1>you did. I'm not going to my friend's house pretending

0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:16.960
<v Speaker 1>to be other people. I'm not manipulating other people into,

0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:20.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, doing X, Y and Z. I'm not gaslighting

0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:25.560
<v Speaker 1>people into talking to these people that aren't real. I'm

0:38:25.640 --> 0:38:30.160
<v Speaker 1>not sleeping over at my friend's house trying to cuddle

0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:33.080
<v Speaker 1>them in the night while they're talking to this big

0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:39.640
<v Speaker 1>person that's actually me. No, I barely have a friendship

0:38:39.640 --> 0:38:43.239
<v Speaker 1>with my sister, and it's all because of what she

0:38:43.800 --> 0:38:48.480
<v Speaker 1>decided to do for three years.

0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Amy's apology didn't feel genuine.

0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:55.759
<v Speaker 1>She did this because she wanted to. She did this

0:38:55.840 --> 0:38:58.719
<v Speaker 1>because she likes to manipulate. She did this because she

0:38:58.840 --> 0:39:03.719
<v Speaker 1>likes the control. She took advantage of young girls that

0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:06.759
<v Speaker 1>had just broken up with their significant others that were

0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:13.319
<v Speaker 1>vulnerable and prayed upon them. We've all moved on and

0:39:13.480 --> 0:39:17.920
<v Speaker 1>that whole apology. You're doing it to see if you

0:39:17.960 --> 0:39:21.160
<v Speaker 1>can still affect our lives. You want to see if

0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:22.400
<v Speaker 1>you still have that hold.

0:39:23.360 --> 0:39:26.040
<v Speaker 2>In the end, Amy has to live with what she did,

0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:29.520
<v Speaker 2>but she doesn't have power over Mackenzie and Lee anymore.

0:39:30.200 --> 0:39:34.480
<v Speaker 2>Mackenzie has moved on. She processed Amy's betrayal, but she

0:39:34.560 --> 0:39:38.640
<v Speaker 2>didn't let it paralyze her. She hasn't stopped trusting people.

0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:40.920
<v Speaker 1>When I love, I love with all of me. I

0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:43.399
<v Speaker 1>don't hold back. I don't hide the fact that I

0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:46.680
<v Speaker 1>am an emotional person. I'm a great friend. I think

0:39:46.680 --> 0:39:49.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm a great sister. I think you know. I just

0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:50.840
<v Speaker 1>love people, good people.

0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:55.560
<v Speaker 2>We end every weekly episode with the same question, why

0:39:55.560 --> 0:39:56.720
<v Speaker 2>do you want to share your story?

0:39:57.520 --> 0:40:03.960
<v Speaker 1>I chose to write in because everybody's on socially, Yeah,

0:40:03.960 --> 0:40:07.760
<v Speaker 1>everybody has a phone. Betrayal can be on so many

0:40:07.760 --> 0:40:15.839
<v Speaker 1>different levels, and I want people to know that regardless

0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:19.759
<v Speaker 1>of the betrayal you go through. I feel like if

0:40:19.800 --> 0:40:22.680
<v Speaker 1>you're willing to do therapy and you're willing to look

0:40:22.719 --> 0:40:25.239
<v Speaker 1>at yourself in a deeper level, it can make you

0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:35.200
<v Speaker 1>a better person and funnier because you have more trauma.

0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:36.360
<v Speaker 2>On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly.

0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:42.440
<v Speaker 1>There's this feeling that mums are good no matter what,

0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:45.279
<v Speaker 1>mums are good, and even if they do the wrong thing,

0:40:46.360 --> 0:40:48.000
<v Speaker 1>it's because they love you so much.

0:40:48.880 --> 0:40:51.520
<v Speaker 2>If you need to accept the lie to live, then

0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:59.000
<v Speaker 2>you accept the lie right. If you would like to

0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:01.040
<v Speaker 2>reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell

0:41:01.120 --> 0:41:04.680
<v Speaker 2>us your betrayal story, email us at Betrayalpod at gmail

0:41:04.719 --> 0:41:09.440
<v Speaker 2>dot com. That's Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com, or

0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:13.280
<v Speaker 2>follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. You can also

0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:17.520
<v Speaker 2>connect with me on Instagram at It's Andrea Gunning. To

0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:21.000
<v Speaker 2>access our newsletter, view additional content, and connect with the

0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Betrayal community, join our substack at Betrayal dot substack dot com.

0:41:25.840 --> 0:41:28.920
<v Speaker 2>We're grateful for your support. One way to show support

0:41:28.960 --> 0:41:31.920
<v Speaker 2>is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts, and

0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:34.840
<v Speaker 2>don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews

0:41:34.840 --> 0:41:37.600
<v Speaker 2>go a long way. A big thank you to all

0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:41.440
<v Speaker 2>of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts,

0:41:41.440 --> 0:41:44.960
<v Speaker 2>a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason.

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<v Speaker 2>Hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced

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<v Speaker 2>by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben Fetterman.

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<v Speaker 2>Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali

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<v Speaker 2>Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing on this episode by

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<v Speaker 2>Dean Welsh, mixing and mastering by Dape Saya. Additional audio

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<v Speaker 2>editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bain's

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<v Speaker 2>music library provided by Mybe Music and For more podcasts

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<v Speaker 2>from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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<v Speaker 2>you get your podcasts,