Speaker 1: I literally just saw red. I started crying and kept saying,
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. I can't believe it. There's no way,
Speaker 1: there's no way. And the first thing I do is
Speaker 1: get my phone and I probably said like I fucking
Speaker 1: hate you or something like that. What she replies back
Speaker 1: is where are you right now? Not what are you
Speaker 1: talking about?
Speaker 2: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about
Speaker 2: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that
Speaker 2: change everything.
Speaker 1: I can go to a middy who I don't know.
Speaker 1: I cry first dances with dads dead.
Speaker 2: That's mckentie. She's the kind of person who has a
Speaker 2: heart exterior is a big softy on the inside.
Speaker 1: I'm on the floor. It's so a big baby. I
Speaker 1: just love love.
Speaker 2: And she has a story unlike any we've ever heard.
Speaker 2: It starts as the story of two sisters, Mackenzie and
Speaker 2: her older sister who were calling Lee.
Speaker 1: She was my very best friend, shared a bedroom. We
Speaker 1: would dance and sing to backsheet boys and in sync
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 2: As kids, Mackenzie and Lee did everything together.
Speaker 1: We were attached at the hip for a long time.
Speaker 1: She used to make me come to her sleepovers because
Speaker 1: she would get homesick, So me, as an eight year old,
Speaker 1: would be coming along to these like cool preteen sleepovers
Speaker 1: with all of her best friends.
Speaker 2: Even though Mackenzie was three years younger than.
Speaker 1: Lee, I was the bigger little sister, so I was
Speaker 1: I was taller than Lee. I acted like the older sibling,
Speaker 1: so I would take care of her.
Speaker 2: For a while, Mackenzie tried to be just like her
Speaker 2: older sister.
Speaker 1: She had so many friends, and all of her friends
Speaker 1: were pretty, and she had so many guy friends, and
Speaker 1: so many guys liked her. So I just always wanted
Speaker 1: to be in her realm to see how does she
Speaker 1: do it? Because I couldn't figure out, for the life
Speaker 1: of me how to connect with men. So I'm watching
Speaker 1: her with boys. I was, oh, I gotta watch my
Speaker 1: big sister.
Speaker 2: But as they grew up, Mackenzie became her own person.
Speaker 1: That was a comboy. I don't want to wear a dress.
Speaker 1: I was very athletic and very good at softball. My
Speaker 1: goal at that point was I'm going to get a
Speaker 1: scholarship go to school in the States, and then I
Speaker 1: wanted to try to get to the Olympics. Fifteen.
Speaker 2: Canada softball became McKenzie's life. Her sister played two, but
Speaker 2: she didn't take it as seriously as Mackenzie.
Speaker 1: She played high level, so she had tournaments and stuff,
Speaker 1: but she was a huge, huge party or in high school.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie was three years younger. They were in different stages
Speaker 2: of their life.
Speaker 1: Lee's off getting drunk in a field somewhere, and I'm
Speaker 1: the one that's like, can I have twenty dollars to do?
Speaker 1: In the movies on Friday.
Speaker 2: Lee was cool, but she wasn't too cool to have
Speaker 2: her younger sister around.
Speaker 1: This is my cool sister, Like she's graduated and we're
Speaker 1: listening to Lose That by Eminem in the car in
Speaker 1: our Toyota Echo.
Speaker 2: After Lee graduated from high school, she moved in with
Speaker 2: her boyfriend.
Speaker 1: And then he cheated on her, so she ends up
Speaker 1: moving back home.
Speaker 2: It was the early two thousands and Facebook was brand new.
Speaker 2: Everyone was navigating social media for the first time.
Speaker 1: And of course Lee's pretty, so she had something up
Speaker 1: where it's like two thousand friends, and I remember Lee
Speaker 1: came to me and was like, Oh, I'm talking to
Speaker 1: this guy that added me on Facebook.
Speaker 2: Lee showed Mackenzie a photo of the guy who had
Speaker 2: reached out to her. His name was Ryan.
Speaker 1: He was very good looking and muscular, kind of a
Speaker 1: buzz cut, dark eyes, really nice smile, ripped all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff when you're nineteen turning twenty you're looking for.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't just about Ryan's looks. Lee had been
Speaker 2: sharing her writing on Facebook and he had taken the
Speaker 2: time to read it.
Speaker 1: She's like, he messaged me saying he really clicked with
Speaker 1: my poetry and he really liked it.
Speaker 2: It was sweet. Mackenzie looked at Ryan's Facebook profile and
Speaker 2: noticed that they had a shared mutual friend Lee's softball
Speaker 2: teammate Amy.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, well, did you pop Dan
Speaker 1: me and Lee? She's like, yeah, Actually she texted me
Speaker 1: and said, oh, how do you know Ryan? And obviously
Speaker 1: Lee he's like, well, I don't. He had me on Facebook.
Speaker 2: It was re assuring for Lee to talk to somebody
Speaker 2: that knew Ryan in real life.
Speaker 1: Amy's like, oh, when I was in Calgary, he was
Speaker 1: living there and we worked together for like a year,
Speaker 1: and he's one of my really good friends. He's such
Speaker 1: a good guy.
Speaker 2: Lee and Ryan started talking. They got along really well
Speaker 2: and would spend hours each day messaging back and forth.
Speaker 2: Even though they lived in different cities, they found creative
Speaker 2: ways to have long distance states. Within a few months.
Speaker 1: They are literally Facebook official. They both have it on
Speaker 1: their Facebook.
Speaker 2: In December of two thousand and nine, Mackenzie was going
Speaker 2: through her first real breakup. Lee encouraged Sure to get
Speaker 2: back on the dating scene.
Speaker 1: Well, he's like, oh, Ryan wants to talk to you. No,
Speaker 1: like you want to talk to me, Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: He says he has a cousin that you'd really like.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay.
Speaker 2: Ryan reached out to McKenzie to vouch for his cousin.
Speaker 1: You guys would really get along. He really likes baseball,
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff, And I'm like, okay, if
Speaker 1: you're vouching for him, Ryan's a great guy, so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna listen.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie decided to give this guy a shot. His name
Speaker 2: was Matt. He and Ryan both lived on the East
Speaker 2: Coast of Canada, which was far away from the sisters.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't like just getting the car and drive here.
Speaker 1: It was airplane six hoverflight hyper deal.
Speaker 2: After dating long distance for months, Ryan started planning his
Speaker 2: first trip to visit Lee.
Speaker 1: He was supposed to come Christmas Eve. So we're looking
Speaker 1: forward to meeting him. My parents were like okay with
Speaker 1: him staying here. But then four days before he messages
Speaker 1: Lee and tells her that he can't come.
Speaker 2: Ryan's mom had cancer and her health had started declining.
Speaker 2: He was no longer willing to miss Christmas with her.
Speaker 1: Lee is beside herself. She's absolutely heartbroken because this was
Speaker 1: going to be their first meeting.
Speaker 2: Ryan felt horrible for canceling the trip to He had
Speaker 2: a special Christmas gift plan for Lee, and in order
Speaker 2: to make sure it got to her on time, he
Speaker 2: solicited the help of their mutual friend Amy.
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve rolls around and Amy shows up with this box,
Speaker 1: hands it to Lee and it's a Bill de bear
Speaker 1: And in the card it says, because I can't be
Speaker 1: there and this is my replacement, like hug him and
Speaker 1: sleep with him. So that night on she's sleeping with
Speaker 1: this bear.
Speaker 2: Everything light As Lee and her boyfriend Ryan got more serious,
Speaker 2: Mackenzie was starting to develop a crush on his cousin Matt.
Speaker 2: He'd become a part of her daily life.
Speaker 1: He was always, you know, messaging me every morning, making
Speaker 1: sure I got up and pushing me to go to
Speaker 1: my practices and stuff like that, and then we would
Speaker 1: we'd talk baseball because he was a Yankees fan, I'm
Speaker 1: a Blue Jays fan, so we would kind of chirp
Speaker 1: each other about baseball a lot.
Speaker 2: But Matt wanted their relationship to be deeper than just
Speaker 2: chatting about sports.
Speaker 1: It just kind of slowly turned into, like him kind
Speaker 1: of saying, I want to date you, I want to
Speaker 1: bet with you.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie felt the same way, but she really wanted to
Speaker 2: meet him in person before they made things official.
Speaker 1: I am very big on face to base interaction. I
Speaker 1: need to have that connection before I can say we
Speaker 1: can meet boyfriend and girlfriend type feel.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie was cautious, but Matt was really making an effort
Speaker 2: and that meant a lot to her. Their jokes and
Speaker 2: sports banter turned to deeper conversations and a real.
Speaker 1: Connection, validating my feelings and making sure I feel heard
Speaker 1: and he would call me babe and baby and all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Matt and Ryan hung out a lot and sent the
Speaker 2: girls photos of their adventures hiking together, spending time with family,
Speaker 2: or just small moments in their daily routines. Their friend
Speaker 2: Amy was happy her matchmaking skills had been such a success.
Speaker 1: Amy is talking with Lee sporadically, checking in on how
Speaker 1: her and Ryan are doing and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Plus it was kind of fun for Mackenzie and Lee
Speaker 2: to be dating cousins.
Speaker 1: Me and Lee will say we're watching a movie and
Speaker 1: then we have Matt and Ryan pressing play on the
Speaker 1: same time.
Speaker 2: They'd watch rom coms together. It was sweet. But Lee
Speaker 2: and Mackenzie were growing tired of the long distance. They
Speaker 2: would try to plan visits with Matt and Ryan, but
Speaker 2: it never seemed to be the right time.
Speaker 1: It was just always, no, you know this, my mom's
Speaker 1: immune compromise. You can't come here. There's no place for
Speaker 1: you to stay. Right now. I'm trying to figure out
Speaker 1: stuff with my mom. I have classes too often, I'm
Speaker 1: going to be working too much. I'm like, well, shit,
Speaker 1: they have such a hard life. And then well, I'm
Speaker 1: such a bad person for trying to put my feelings first.
Speaker 2: Lee, I had never had an online relationship before. It
Speaker 2: was taking a toll on her.
Speaker 1: It was endless of her drinking, coming home and she's crying,
Speaker 1: and she's coming into my bedroom and she's talking about Oh,
Speaker 1: she's fighting with Ryan and it's her, you know, missing
Speaker 1: shifts at work. Her friends are now very few and
Speaker 1: far between. They don't believe that you can fall in
Speaker 1: love with somebody over the internet. So Lee is now
Speaker 1: at this point, you know, she's losing her best friend,
Speaker 1: she's losing her friend group, the people that she usually
Speaker 1: turns to. I'm now her best friend because I'm in
Speaker 1: a similar circumstance.
Speaker 2: The whole situation brought the sisters closer together. McKenzie was
Speaker 2: at a crossroads. She was graduating high school and thinking
Speaker 2: about her future. Beckenzie had spent her whole life working
Speaker 2: towards a career as a professional softball player, and now
Speaker 2: she was debating if that was the right choice.
Speaker 1: I just kind of I got to the point where
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be just that's what my identity was.
Speaker 1: Because my identity, that's all people associated me with. Mackenzie
Speaker 1: just plays off all that's what she does.
Speaker 2: So McKenzie made a hard decision. She decided not to
Speaker 2: go to college.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to take any of my scholarships.
Speaker 2: If she wasn't in school, she would need a job.
Speaker 2: When she was lost on what to do, Matt had
Speaker 2: an idea.
Speaker 1: Matt let me know that Amy works for a construction
Speaker 1: company and she can probably get me a job.
Speaker 2: Amy worked in construction and Matt did too. He told
Speaker 2: Mackenzie more about how the industry worked.
Speaker 1: I was going, Yeah, that's totally at my alley, different
Speaker 1: every day to go into different job sites and all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. So I was like, yeah, forget
Speaker 1: Matt says, hey, just give her a text and she
Speaker 1: can probably get you a job.
Speaker 2: She texted Amy and submitted her resume. Two weeks later,
Speaker 2: she was hired for the job.
Speaker 1: My first day, I was super nervous. Amy offered to
Speaker 1: come on the day off, introduced me to everybody that
Speaker 1: worked there. Day was like, Wow, she's really down to earth.
Speaker 1: She's really chill, you know, she's a tomboy like me,
Speaker 1: very easy to talk to, funny, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I can't believe she would go out of her way
Speaker 1: to try to make me feel comfortable. That's really nice
Speaker 1: of her. From that point on, we became best friends
Speaker 1: pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: After graduating high school, Mackenzie took a job in construction
Speaker 2: with a mutual friend named Amy. Amy had played softball
Speaker 2: in high school with Mackenzie's sister Lee, but the sisters
Speaker 2: also knew her through their long distance boyfriends, and over time,
Speaker 2: mackenzie's friendship with Amy grew.
Speaker 1: We worked together almost every day. She'd come over to
Speaker 1: our house a lot. She was very funny and she
Speaker 1: was very outgoing and just easy to be around. She
Speaker 1: would come over. We'd watched Jersey Shore every Thursday together. Jersdays,
Speaker 1: you know this, bumps pushed up chapstick. It was best
Speaker 1: and her and I like, I could just be me
Speaker 1: and she was the same. So we fed off each other.
Speaker 1: You just have two freaking weird people together and that's
Speaker 1: a vibe.
Speaker 2: Amy never really dated anyone. When Mackenzie asked her about it,
Speaker 2: she explained that it was because of her faith.
Speaker 1: She's like, I just I'm Christian and literally wearing a
Speaker 1: purity ring like Jonah's brother's stuff, shout out to Jonah's
Speaker 1: brothers and she but she had a cross on. She
Speaker 1: was like, that's just how I was raised.
Speaker 2: But McKenzie liked sharing her love life with Amy, especially
Speaker 2: because Amy knew her boyfriend.
Speaker 1: He was my kind of outlet, being like, why is
Speaker 1: Matt being crazy today? I need you to talk to him.
Speaker 1: We're same with Lee.
Speaker 2: McKenzie and Matt's relationship was steady, but Lee and Ryan
Speaker 2: were really struggling with the distance because Ryan still hadn't
Speaker 2: come to visit.
Speaker 1: Every other day. They're arguing, like, why aren't you coming here?
Speaker 1: And you know my mom's sick, you know I was
Speaker 1: in a car accident, you know Matt's not doing well.
Speaker 1: It was very much telling Lee, why are you making
Speaker 1: me feel bad when my life is in shambles and
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be supporting me. You're supposed to be
Speaker 1: my better half.
Speaker 2: For Mackenzie's nineteenth birthday, Lee and Amy decided to take
Speaker 2: her out to a bar to celebrate, but as soon
Speaker 2: as they got there, Lee's.
Speaker 1: Arguing with Ryan even on my birthday, bbming each other.
Speaker 1: He's getting mad at her that she's drinking, saying she's
Speaker 1: drinking too much. Amy's being super weird.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie chalked it up to the fact that Amy didn't drink.
Speaker 1: She's like, I need to leave, and I'm kind of like,
Speaker 1: we just got here. I just had my second beer.
Speaker 1: She had left my birthday and then the whole night,
Speaker 1: Lee and Ryan are arguing.
Speaker 2: The relationship between Lee and Ryan was just plain unhealthy.
Speaker 1: Lee is now not going out with her friends. Her
Speaker 1: friends didn't get the online relationship. Why she was adamant
Speaker 1: that she had to be with this man. This was
Speaker 1: her bl end doll. She's not leaving her room. I
Speaker 1: can hear her crying yourself to sleep most night. I
Speaker 1: can hear She'll send videos to him of her crying
Speaker 1: and yelling and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie would talk to Amy about her and Lee's relationship issues,
Speaker 2: but often Amy would side with the guys.
Speaker 1: I'm at work and Amy's being weird and super angry,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what is wrong? I understand Ryan's your
Speaker 1: best friend, but you don't need to involve yourself that
Speaker 1: much into their arguments. Would be talking with Matt Men.
Speaker 1: I would say something and it would piss him off,
Speaker 1: and sure enough Amy's giving me the you know, the
Speaker 1: cold shoulder, and it just was like this cycle of toxicity.
Speaker 2: Amy couldn't help but get involved in their relationships, especially
Speaker 2: Lee and Ryan's.
Speaker 1: We would be on a drive and then Amy would
Speaker 1: just turn to me and be like, so, your sister
Speaker 1: and Ryan are fighting. And I'm like, when are they
Speaker 1: not fighting? And She's like, yeah, what does your sister
Speaker 1: said about Ryan? Like, what does she feel and I'm like,
Speaker 1: she's in love with him. I don't think it really matters. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it does matter. And I'm like, well, it's
Speaker 1: not your relationships. I don't I don't understand why you're
Speaker 1: asking this. Well, is she talking to any guys when
Speaker 1: she goes out? And I'm like, no, I don't see it.
Speaker 1: She's will you go with her sometimes you go to
Speaker 1: the bars. I'm like, I don't think it matters. Amy like,
Speaker 1: we're literally we're going to get we run to Sound eleven,
Speaker 1: We're getting slur face and we're getting a two dollar
Speaker 1: candy bag. We don't need to worry about this right now.
Speaker 2: It was weird how Amy would involve herself, but McKenzie
Speaker 2: tried to ignore it. At this point in their friendship.
Speaker 2: It was twenty ten. A documentary came out that everybody
Speaker 2: was talking about. Ryan recommended it to Lee.
Speaker 1: It's called catfish, and we never heard the term.
Speaker 2: These days, catfishing stories feel like a part of the zeitgeist,
Speaker 2: but back in twenty ten, this was a brand new concept.
Speaker 1: Facebook's fresh out the gate. We all are kind of
Speaker 1: getting used to what's going on. Instagram's not even out yet.
Speaker 1: You trust that everyone is who they say they are.
Speaker 2: McKenzie was curious about the Catfish documentary.
Speaker 1: I had talked to Matt, and Matt's like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: watched it. It's a really good movie. I think it's
Speaker 1: something you guys should watch to put your mind at ease.
Speaker 1: Abous we have Amy then saying, oh, we can watch
Speaker 1: it together. So now it's me Lee and Amy and
Speaker 1: we're watching Catfish together. We're like, I couldn't even imagine
Speaker 1: if that happened to us. That would be devastating. Lee
Speaker 1: is just like, I'm so glad I found the love
Speaker 1: of my life. I'm gonna marry and have kids with
Speaker 1: And I'm glad he told us to watch this movie together.
Speaker 1: I would be absolutely mortified if that ever happened to me.
Speaker 1: I can't believe you didn't see the songs.
Speaker 2: At first, it was fun that Mackenzie and Lee's boyfriends
Speaker 2: were cousins and that their best friend Amy knew the
Speaker 2: guys too. All of her favorite people knew each other.
Speaker 2: But as time went on, Mackenzie started to feel like
Speaker 2: she was stuck in the middle of a complicated web.
Speaker 2: As Lee's relationship with Ryan got worse, it became too
Speaker 2: much drama for McKenzie.
Speaker 1: Lee's fighting with Ryan, and then Ryan's trying to talk
Speaker 1: to me because he wants me to calm her down.
Speaker 1: And then I had Matt talking to me saying, this
Speaker 1: is really bad for Lee and Ryan. You need to help.
Speaker 1: And then I have freaking Amy also being like Ryan
Speaker 1: told me they're fighting, and I'm like, I can't do
Speaker 1: this anymore.
Speaker 2: So in January of twenty eleven, Mackenzie broke up with Matt.
Speaker 2: She told Lee that she needed space from the whole situation,
Speaker 2: especially her sister's toxic relationship.
Speaker 1: When I stopped talking to Matt, I think that was
Speaker 1: really really hard on her because at this point I
Speaker 1: just can't listen to it, and so now you know
Speaker 1: she's alone in this.
Speaker 2: Essentially, Mackenzie saw the damage that Lee's relationship with Ryan
Speaker 2: was causing. She hardly recognized her vibrant, outgoing older sister.
Speaker 1: It just progressively was just her shutting herself off from
Speaker 1: the rest of the world. You can see her just deteriorating.
Speaker 1: She got really, really, really skinny, and it just was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: McKenzie wasn't in a rush to be in another relationship.
Speaker 2: Matt on the other hand, we did no time finding
Speaker 2: a new girlfriend.
Speaker 1: One of my best friends approached me and she said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I just want to let you know that Matt has
Speaker 1: messaged me and are you okay if we start talking?
Speaker 1: And I was like, you know what, girl, do you
Speaker 1: want that freaking bag of worms? You want all that drama?
Speaker 1: All the power to you, sister. So they started talking.
Speaker 2: But after a few months, Mackenzie's friend noticed something weird
Speaker 2: about her conversation with Matt.
Speaker 1: She brought up the fact that when her and Amy
Speaker 1: hang out and she would text Matt, it seemed like
Speaker 1: Amy's boone was going off. It would vibrate when he
Speaker 1: was messaging Matt. I kind of brushed it off, I said, honestly,
Speaker 1: I think it might just be a coincidence. Her and
Speaker 1: Matt and Ryan are always talking. Amy's also always talking
Speaker 1: to me. It's probably just that kind of thing. And
Speaker 1: she's a gay right.
Speaker 2: But later that night, dalt started to creep into Mackenzie's
Speaker 2: mind for the first time, she let herself consider the
Speaker 2: question what if Matt and Ryan weren't real? As she
Speaker 2: thought back on their relationship, little details that seemed like
Speaker 2: nothing at the time all started to add.
Speaker 1: Up, all the gifts we've gotten are hand given to
Speaker 1: us from Amy, never in the mail, never got an address.
Speaker 1: And then I had a blanket was handmade from Matt,
Speaker 1: and Amy has the same exact handmade blanket that she
Speaker 1: made Matt and Ryan also worked for a construction company
Speaker 1: that is exactly the same as what Amy and I did.
Speaker 2: Finally, it all clicked.
Speaker 1: I just was like, Yeah, I think Amy is Matt.
Speaker 2: Could this be true? Were the sisters talking to Amy
Speaker 2: the entire time? Could Amy have invented not one, but
Speaker 2: two fake boyfriends. Mackenzie needed proof.
Speaker 1: Now Mackenzie is a detective and I am all over this.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie knew that Ryan would often send Lee photos of
Speaker 2: the construction sites he worked at.
Speaker 1: I ended up messaging Lee and I said, if he
Speaker 1: sends you any photos of job sites at, please send
Speaker 1: them to me.
Speaker 2: Ryan worked in construction all the way across the country
Speaker 2: in eastern Canada. If he was really who he said
Speaker 2: he was, Mackenzie should have no way of recognizing the sites.
Speaker 2: But if it was really Amy, this could be Mackenzie's
Speaker 2: chance to catch her in a lie. And finally she
Speaker 2: got a clue. Lee forwarded a photo Ryan had sent her.
Speaker 2: He said it was from one of his.
Speaker 1: Work sites, and it's this picture of this really really
Speaker 1: high end bar of a really really nice house. The
Speaker 1: light pictures super unique. You'll never see it in any
Speaker 1: other type of house. I textedly and I said, oh,
Speaker 1: did Ryan send you this today? And she goes, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: he just sent it to me. He said he wants
Speaker 1: to put that in our house. He's going to build
Speaker 1: it for me. And so what I do is I
Speaker 1: take that photo. And there's one person that I work
Speaker 1: with and I told my suspicions of and so I
Speaker 1: emailed it to her and I said, you're working with
Speaker 1: Amy today? Is this the site you're at? And my
Speaker 1: coworker sends me back, I'm so sorry, Mackenzie. I saw
Speaker 1: Amy sit down take a photo of that light fixture
Speaker 1: and talk about how much she liked it and how
Speaker 1: she wants it in her future house.
Speaker 2: One day, McKenzie suspected her friend Amy might be catfishing
Speaker 2: both her and her sister Lee. One day, her sister's
Speaker 2: boyfriend sent her a photo of a light fixture and
Speaker 2: said he wanted it to be in their future house.
Speaker 2: One day, McKenzie texted her coworker who was working on
Speaker 2: site with Amy, and asked if the photo looked familiar, and.
Speaker 1: My coworker sends me back, I'm so sorry, Mackenzie. I
Speaker 1: saw Amy sit down, take a photo of that light
Speaker 1: fixture and talk about how much she liked it and
Speaker 1: how she wants it in her future house.
Speaker 2: One day, Mackenzie was mad.
Speaker 1: I literally just saw red. I started crying and kept saying,
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. I can't believe it. There's no way.
Speaker 2: She grabs her phone and texted Amy.
Speaker 1: I said, I can't believe you could watch my sister
Speaker 1: all into this deep depression for two years, lose all
Speaker 1: of her friends.
Speaker 2: Amy responded right away.
Speaker 1: What she replies back is where are you right now?
Speaker 1: I'm coming to see you. I'm like, oh no, no, but
Speaker 1: I don't want to see you.
Speaker 2: Next, Mackenzie called her sister. She had to break the
Speaker 2: news that her boyfriend, who she had been in love
Speaker 2: with for years, was actually their friend Amy hiding behind
Speaker 2: a screen.
Speaker 1: I called Lee right away and I told her. And
Speaker 1: when we got home and I was telling my parents,
Speaker 1: Lee was basically just sitting on the couch, not really
Speaker 1: having a reaction. And she's like, no, I'm talking. I'm
Speaker 1: talking with Ryan. He's real. Maybe Matt's her, but Ryan's real.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie was stunned. She was not prepared for this reaction.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Lee, what are you talking about? It's
Speaker 1: all here, it does you can't have Matt without the
Speaker 1: other that like, what do you mean? I was so
Speaker 1: mad because I'm giving you the reasoning of why we
Speaker 1: haven't seen these people.
Speaker 2: Finally, they had answers, but Lee didn't want to hear them.
Speaker 1: Nobody could say anything to her. She'd be like, no,
Speaker 1: that's just not true because she was so infatuated in
Speaker 1: love with this man. They've talked about their wedding, they
Speaker 1: have their names of their kids picked out.
Speaker 2: Lee felt so far away. Nothing Mackenzie said seemed to
Speaker 2: reach her. She was used to sharing everything with her
Speaker 2: older sister. Lee was the only person who understood every
Speaker 2: inch of her world, but in that moment, it felt
Speaker 2: like they were on different planets, which.
Speaker 1: Kind of began the deterioration of our friendship me and
Speaker 1: my sister. Was how angry I was and how she
Speaker 1: continued to believe that this individual was a real person.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie knew that in order for her sister. To come
Speaker 2: to terms with the truth, Lee would need to hear
Speaker 2: it from me herself, so they decided to confront Amy
Speaker 2: at her home.
Speaker 1: Amy wouldn't come out of the house. We met with
Speaker 1: her mom, and her mom had no idea who Matt
Speaker 1: Ryan are, even though she said that Matt Ryan know
Speaker 1: her mom and all this stuff. Amy finally came out
Speaker 1: after half an hour and said that Matt isn't real.
Speaker 1: Matt is my friend Sam, but Ryan is real. Looks
Speaker 1: Lee straightly. I swear to you he is real. I've
Speaker 1: touched him.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie was fuming. Amy had spent years tricking her and
Speaker 2: her sister into falling in love with guys that didn't exist.
Speaker 2: She had controlled their lives, manipulated their emotions, cause Lee's
Speaker 2: health to deteriorate, and now when they had proof of
Speaker 2: her betrayal, she was still standing in front of them
Speaker 2: and denying it.
Speaker 1: I looked at Amy and I said, so, your friend
Speaker 1: Sam started talking to me as a joke and she
Speaker 1: said yeah. I said, and you knew he was talking
Speaker 1: to me as a joke and she said yes, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, and you knew I was going through depression
Speaker 1: and getting diagnosed with anxiety. And she said yes, And
Speaker 1: I said, and you thought that would be funny? And
Speaker 1: she said, well, I didn't know you. And I said
Speaker 1: I even if I didn't know you, I wouldn't allow
Speaker 1: someone to do that to you.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie gave Amy one last chance to tell the full truth.
Speaker 1: I asked her, I want you to look me in
Speaker 1: the eye and tell me that Ryan is real. And
Speaker 1: Amy looked me in the eye and said yes. And
Speaker 1: that day I basically walked out of her house and.
Speaker 3: I said to Lee that if she ever admits us
Speaker 3: one day, she had her chance to tell us, like, she's.
Speaker 1: In love with you, Lee. And Lee's like, you know, Mackenzie,
Speaker 1: if he told you Matt isn't real at somebody else,
Speaker 1: So just get over it. No, Ryan's real.
Speaker 2: Lee's response was devastating.
Speaker 1: I found out months later, six months later that she
Speaker 1: was still talking with Ryan after she told me she wasn't.
Speaker 1: And I just want to pick her up and shake her.
Speaker 1: I'm like, how can you not see this?
Speaker 2: Mackenzie and her parents went to the police, hoping that
Speaker 2: they could do something to stop Amy.
Speaker 1: We saw an officer and basically it was just are
Speaker 1: they using like SIN numbers, which is social insurance numbers.
Speaker 1: It's like no, it's like, well, they're not technically feeling
Speaker 1: an identity, they're just using their photos, so it's not
Speaker 1: a crime. And my parents were just like, well, she's
Speaker 1: going to keep doing this. She's obviously going to keep
Speaker 1: talking to people and hurting people's lives and you know,
Speaker 1: and they're like, all we can say is like, don't
Speaker 1: add people you don't know, and don't talk to them.
Speaker 2: Shortly after that, Lee moved to Toronto.
Speaker 1: Basically she ran away.
Speaker 2: To this day, Lee's never admitted that Ryan wasn't real.
Speaker 1: In reality, Lee fell in love. You want to choose
Speaker 1: to believe that the people that you end up loving
Speaker 1: are good, and choosing to believe it is easier than
Speaker 1: accepting the fact that you've been talking to somebody who
Speaker 1: is not real for the past three years, who you've
Speaker 1: fallen in love with, who's actually a woman, who you
Speaker 1: may or may not have sent pictures and other text messages.
Speaker 2: What was especially disturbing was that the betrayal wasn't committed
Speaker 2: at random or by a stream. The person that did
Speaker 2: this was Mackenzie's best friend.
Speaker 1: This was somebody who was in my house every single day,
Speaker 1: somebody who I told all my secrets about, you know,
Speaker 1: like I told her how I felt with men and
Speaker 1: my insecurities and I had intimacy issues with men, and
Speaker 1: I was afraid of whatever, and so she knows all this.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie felt so alone. The only person that could possibly
Speaker 2: understand what she was going through was refusing to talk
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Trying to talk with my sister. I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about it, and she wanted to put it in a
Speaker 1: pretty box and put it in the closet. I'm your
Speaker 1: little sister. We're supposed to be best friends. You're supposed
Speaker 1: to help me, You're supposed to help each other, and
Speaker 1: instead you ran away and you chose to not talk
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: Amy caused long lasting damage to Lee and the sister's friendship.
Speaker 1: You watch the person who idolized so much, and after
Speaker 1: everything kind of happened, it was she just wasn't Lee anymore.
Speaker 1: I was mad at her for a very long time.
Speaker 1: Now we're better, obviously, but we're just not the same.
Speaker 1: We're just our friendship. That relationship hasn't been the same
Speaker 1: since everything happened.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie reached out for support and started going to therapy.
Speaker 1: I needed that help because I was angry. I was
Speaker 1: trying to desensitize myself from this story and put together
Speaker 1: what the hell just happened.
Speaker 2: Looking back now, Mackenzie can see why Amy's catfishing was
Speaker 2: so convincing. She had created two characters, Matt and Ryan,
Speaker 2: who were always confirming each other's stories. If one of
Speaker 2: them said they were hiking, the girls would get sent
Speaker 2: photos of Matt and Ryan together on a hike, just
Speaker 2: like said. There was no reason to doubt it because
Speaker 2: the idea of creating a scheme with multiple fake people
Speaker 2: seemed so far fetched.
Speaker 1: Once Matt was brought into it, it made it seem
Speaker 1: more real. That's too many people who, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I don't know how to explain that.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie never found out who the guys and the photos were,
Speaker 2: but she suspects that they were real cousins or even
Speaker 2: brothers who had public social media profiles, and Amy must
Speaker 2: have been stealing their pictures without their knowledge.
Speaker 1: I still have photos of them. I've reversed. I whige
Speaker 1: searched all of them, and I can't find anything.
Speaker 2: Amy introduced these characters at a time when both Lee
Speaker 2: and Mackenzie really needed someone to talk to.
Speaker 1: Matt Ryan started talking to both of us in a
Speaker 1: very vulnerable time. Lee is very heartbroken from her previous
Speaker 1: relationship being cheated on. I'm in kind of the same boat,
Speaker 1: but also I'm going through depression and anxiety and I
Speaker 1: obviously don't know how to wrap my head around that.
Speaker 2: But this story doesn't end here, because ten years later,
Speaker 2: the sisters both found ways move forward and heal. Lee
Speaker 2: eventually built the life she'd always dreamed of.
Speaker 1: Lee's doing great. She meets a guy. She has two
Speaker 1: little kids now, little boy and a little girl, and
Speaker 1: they are absolutely adorable and I love them so very much.
Speaker 1: She's thriving as a mom, and her husband is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite people of all time. He's hilarious.
Speaker 2: And Mackenzie build a life she genuinely loved too. It
Speaker 2: started when she realized she liked girls.
Speaker 1: It was like, yeah, okay, I've never actually kissed a
Speaker 1: girl before kissed her and then I remember being like,
Speaker 1: uh oh, that's what it's supposed to feel like.
Speaker 2: She finally fell authentically herself.
Speaker 1: It was the opening of Okay, I can be me now.
Speaker 1: I had my first girlfriend, fell in love. Then we
Speaker 1: fast forward to twenty twenty three. I'm out living my
Speaker 1: best life and my friend from back When Everything Happens
Speaker 1: sends me a DM on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie was surprised to hear from her. She opened the message.
Speaker 1: Just basically saying, hey, you know, I know we don't
Speaker 1: talk anymore, but I watched all your pictures and your
Speaker 1: videos and I'm just so proud of you. You look
Speaker 1: so happy. And I just said, oh, that's great. Hope
Speaker 1: you're doing well, and she goes, I actually messaged you
Speaker 1: because I got a message from Amy. A couple weeks ago.
Speaker 2: Amy had reached out to Mackenzie's friend with a voice
Speaker 2: memo confession. Mackenzie's friend send her the file and.
Speaker 1: I play it and I hear Amy's voice and she
Speaker 1: says it was me. It was always me. I did it.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and then she says, I was struggling with
Speaker 1: internalized homophobia and that's why I did the things I did.
Speaker 1: I just was like, are you joking.
Speaker 2: Internalized homophobia is when society's homophobia causes a queer person
Speaker 2: to feel shame, guilt, or even self hatred about their
Speaker 2: own identity. Amy was essentially saying that she had created
Speaker 2: fake straight relationships with the sisters because she didn't feel
Speaker 2: like she could come out as gay and be herself.
Speaker 2: At the time, Mackenzie knew how harmful internalized homophobia could
Speaker 2: be because she experienced it herself for years, but it
Speaker 2: wasn't an excuse to catfish and harm people.
Speaker 1: You're giving yourself an out to explain the shitty things
Speaker 1: you did. I'm not going to my friend's house pretending
Speaker 1: to be other people. I'm not manipulating other people into,
Speaker 1: you know, doing X, Y and Z. I'm not gaslighting
Speaker 1: people into talking to these people that aren't real. I'm
Speaker 1: not sleeping over at my friend's house trying to cuddle
Speaker 1: them in the night while they're talking to this big
Speaker 1: person that's actually me. No, I barely have a friendship
Speaker 1: with my sister, and it's all because of what she
Speaker 1: decided to do for three years.
Speaker 2: Amy's apology didn't feel genuine.
Speaker 1: She did this because she wanted to. She did this
Speaker 1: because she likes to manipulate. She did this because she
Speaker 1: likes the control. She took advantage of young girls that
Speaker 1: had just broken up with their significant others that were
Speaker 1: vulnerable and prayed upon them. We've all moved on and
Speaker 1: that whole apology. You're doing it to see if you
Speaker 1: can still affect our lives. You want to see if
Speaker 1: you still have that hold.
Speaker 2: In the end, Amy has to live with what she did,
Speaker 2: but she doesn't have power over Mackenzie and Lee anymore.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie has moved on. She processed Amy's betrayal, but she
Speaker 2: didn't let it paralyze her. She hasn't stopped trusting people.
Speaker 1: When I love, I love with all of me. I
Speaker 1: don't hold back. I don't hide the fact that I
Speaker 1: am an emotional person. I'm a great friend. I think
Speaker 1: I'm a great sister. I think you know. I just
Speaker 1: love people, good people.
Speaker 2: We end every weekly episode with the same question, why
Speaker 2: do you want to share your story?
Speaker 1: I chose to write in because everybody's on socially, Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody has a phone. Betrayal can be on so many
Speaker 1: different levels, and I want people to know that regardless
Speaker 1: of the betrayal you go through. I feel like if
Speaker 1: you're willing to do therapy and you're willing to look
Speaker 1: at yourself in a deeper level, it can make you
Speaker 1: a better person and funnier because you have more trauma.
Speaker 2: On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly.
Speaker 1: There's this feeling that mums are good no matter what,
Speaker 1: mums are good, and even if they do the wrong thing,
Speaker 1: it's because they love you so much.
Speaker 2: If you need to accept the lie to live, then
Speaker 2: you accept the lie right. If you would like to
Speaker 2: reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell
Speaker 2: us your betrayal story, email us at Betrayalpod at gmail
Speaker 2: dot com. That's Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com, or
Speaker 2: follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. You can also
Speaker 2: connect with me on Instagram at It's Andrea Gunning. To
Speaker 2: access our newsletter, view additional content, and connect with the
Speaker 2: Betrayal community, join our substack at Betrayal dot substack dot com.
Speaker 2: We're grateful for your support. One way to show support
Speaker 2: is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts, and
Speaker 2: don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews
Speaker 2: go a long way. A big thank you to all
Speaker 2: of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts,
Speaker 2: a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason.
Speaker 2: Hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced
Speaker 2: by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben Fetterman.
Speaker 2: Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali
Speaker 2: Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing on this episode by
Speaker 2: Dean Welsh, mixing and mastering by Dape Saya. Additional audio
Speaker 2: editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bain's
Speaker 2: music library provided by Mybe Music and For more podcasts
Speaker 2: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 2: you get your podcasts,