WEBVTT - Patti LuPone 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.640 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:22.360 According to the online Urban Dictionary, today's guest has become 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:27.120 a verb. To LuPone is quote to give an outstanding 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:31.880 theatrical performance, to make an audience revel in, open mouthed 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:37.280 awe at your unparalleled brilliance. Unquote. Won't fry for me 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:44.760 a gentry in a The truth is I left you 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:52.600 all through my wild days, my mad existance, I kept 0:00:52.720 --> 0:01:01.480 my proms your distance. Paddy Lapone as twenty six Broadway 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.920 credits to date and has won two Tonies, one for 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.800 a Vida and one for Gypsy in London. She originated 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:12.560 the role of Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard and Fantine 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.160 in Le Miserabla, for which she won an Olivier Award. 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:20.360 She's worked in film and on television, most notably as 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.800 the mom on the ABC drama Life Goes On. Before 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.720 all this success, Patty was in the first class of 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:31.399 the Drama Division at Juilliard, in which seems like a 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.560 reasonable place to start dreaming of a career in the theater. 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:39.520 But Patty lapone story really begins even earlier. I knew 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.839 when I was a kid that I had a Broadway voice. 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:43.760 I wanted to be a rocker because I grew up 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:49.280 in that era, transistor radios at the beach, The Rascals 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.320 we started in the fifties, Little Anthony and the Imperials. 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.800 I mean, all through the fifties and sixties and seventies, 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:56.880 I knew I didn't have a rock voice. Though I 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.840 knew I had a Broadway voice. This this is all 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:06.160 instinctual behavior, completely instinctual behavior. And my mom listened to 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.519 opera and my dad listened to jazz. He was a 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.760 principle of an elementary school on Long Island and Northport, 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:18.360 and my mom was a housewife, a homemaker. HOWI twin 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.360 brothers and me, you know, typical in a ranch house 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:26.440 on Long Island. Yeah, exactly. And I was enrolled in 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.200 dance at four years old, and I fell in love 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.960 with the stage. But that wasn't really the first inkling 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.639 of some sort of connection to the stage. My mother 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.600 used to troop me out in front of guests to 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.800 do my Marilyn Monroe imitation. And I don't even know 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.400 how I came up with this, but I would come out, 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.120 they'd laugh, and I'd go, oh, this is cool, Like 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.400 you know, I was. I was pretty astute when I 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.919 was very very young and pretty. So I started dancing, 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.040 and I fell in love with the audience, and so 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:58.320 the performance aspect started very very young in dance. When 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.960 Juilliard happened, it didn't happen. Well. My my brother attended 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.080 the dance division of the Juilliard School and told me 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.480 that they were starting a drama division. I actually had 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.040 moved into New York City and was auditioning for musicals 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.119 and working. And I just wanted to be in musicals 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.280 and hang out in New York City and party. And 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:16.720 I auditioned and I got in. And what happened in 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.359 the four years the course of the four years of 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.600 the Juilliard schools, I fell out of love with musical 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.160 and in love with classical theater. And I was actually 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.240 trained as a classical actress. So we did know a 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:31.520 lot of other great classical actors. Yes, Kevin Klein, David Stires, 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:36.080 David Schram, Mary Louisato, and then of course the classes 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.840 below me have gained more recognition than my class did. 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.920 We were the very first class. But that girl from 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.680 Northport who's doing Marilyn Monroe impersonations in the ranch House 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.000 with your family. What's that like for you, that transition 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.640 to be in that very heavy, sophisticated well, it was. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:53.320 It was tough for me because I was not a 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.360 favorite at school. My best friend, who I met in 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:00.160 the first year, Nancy Nichols, was a favorite and I 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.200 was not. But Nancy and I would always pile around 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.800 together and make trouble, but Nancy would get the roles 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.920 and I would not. And that went on for several years. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.440 I think it was only my third year when I 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:12.960 realized that they were trying to throw me out of school. 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.000 And what they did. They couldn't throw me up because 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.280 I didn't like my personality. But what they did was 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.600 that through every conceivable role in my direction to make 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.040 me fail as an actor. But what happened was they 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.240 why do you think that they didn't like Yeah, they 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.279 didn't like me. They or that you know, I didn't 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:33.680 get cut every year students got cut, So we started 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.680 with her. Over the years, we ended up with the 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.000 seventeen of the original thirty six. In the fourth year, 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.600 I never got cut. So I'm confused as to why 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.320 that actually happened, because why didn't they just cut me, 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.880 possibly because every role I played I succeeded in. But 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.599 what they did was they trained one actor in my 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.960 class and versatility, and the rest of them were pigeonholed, 0:04:56.080 --> 0:05:00.560 as you know, life will pigeonhole you into exactly the 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.440 supret the leading lady, the character woman. But I went 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.719 back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, which 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:13.080 taught me that I could. There were no boundaries, no, 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.320 And if you look at my history, I've done more 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.880 places than I've done musicals. But because I guess the 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.440 voice is a powerful instrument, do you know what I mean? 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:24.560 And it's an American cultural event. The American the brought 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.760 the musical, not the broad Also the music that you've performed. 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.560 When someone is as successful as you, And I've said 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.760 this to people who have careers of music beyond the theater, 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:39.240 as as leading actresses in the theater. Music distinguishes things 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.279 because it's a product you can consume anywhere. You know, 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.960 your career goes to another level where I can drive 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.480 in my car and listen to the soundtracks anything goes. 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.200 I can be on the beach and I can listen 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:54.200 to the soundtrack from Sweeney Todd Music performers will always 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.119 have the upper hand on actors. But you were saying, 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.719 how you um the versatility thing? You you were almost 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.560 forced to embrace this versatility to survive. And you graduate 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.880 from that program the first class graduates. What year and 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.760 where do you go? John Houseman? So in our third 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.320 year he presented a season to um the prominent people 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.400 in New York theater and critics, and mel Gussa was 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.240 the one that said. Mel Gussa was a second string 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:22.640 critic for the New York Times, and he was the 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.080 one that said, why break this company up? Why not 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.359 form a permanent acting company? Which was John's q And 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.960 when we graduated, he handed us our equity card and 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.240 four years. But we stayed for four years of touring 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:39.960 the country performing classical plays in true revolving rep, which 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.440 is a different play every single night. So we got 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.840 even more training because in our first year we lost 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.760 several bookings because we didn't know how to tour, We 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.240 didn't know how to maintain a performance. We only did 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.599 three at Juilliard and we had no idea what happened 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:57.039 on the fourth And that sounds crazy, but it's we lost. 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.200 Do you think this acting company idea, and the worry 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.120 was what Housman had up a sleeve the whole time 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.960 when he instigated the Juilliard program. No, I don't think so. 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.520 You know, the training was intense and emotionally intense, psychologically intense, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:15.920 physically intense. But there was one production where the company 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.880 formed an invisible circle of support around each other, and 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:24.960 that was his. He saw the ensemble and I remember, 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.840 I mean, I know it was. It bores Tomorrow's production 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.360 of of You from the Bridge, and oh, I could 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:36.400 cry now thinking of it. It was an extraordinarily powerful 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:43.840 experience to be a student actor but in a professional mindset. 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.960 And I remember our curtain call and the pride and 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:54.360 the power, and it was an amazing moment that changed 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.960 the course of all of us. And we understood what 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.040 ensemble mean, and we understood what support meant, and we 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.040 understood the power we had as individuals and as actors. 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:08.200 And John saw that in his actors. There's been a 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.200 couple of experiences that I've had that it's that same 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.440 ensemble mentality. So that's the other thing I have to interject. 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.960 When I left Juilliard and left the acting company, and 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:19.880 then of course landed musicals. We all did, by the 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.560 way David Stys did, Kevin did, um many did. We 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.200 all ended musicals. But there's only a couple of times 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.360 where I felt I had that kind of ensemble. And 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.480 one was Limas in London because it was a Royal 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:35.320 Shakespeare Company actors, and the other was Gypsy, where every 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:39.400 actor owned their part, big or small, and gave themselves 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.960 to the play every single night. The other one was 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.280 Sweeney Too, because and our stage manager said in Sweeney 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:47.600 that we acted more like a band than a bunch 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.319 of actors. So the acting company thing less for how 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.560 long you didn't have I did it for four years. 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.559 Nobody goes in for four years anymore. We all did 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:57.440 it for four years, and you know, I thought about 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.840 the I don't know why we stayed, except we thought, 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:02.400 I'm sure we all went we are not going to 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:05.200 be able to play these parts in real life. And 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:06.920 that was back in a time when they were the 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.640 very last vapors in the air here in New York 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.360 of the Old Way, and the old way was you 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.160 went downtown and you carried a spear for Joe, where 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:17.559 you carried a spear in the park, and there was 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:19.800 an apprenticeship in the theater, and if you didn't have 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.320 credit in the theater, Raoul and Chris Walking and Sigourney 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.680 and you and Kevin and everybody, everybody who were the 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.280 princes and princesses and Mandy of the theater in New York, 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.560 that's where you headed. So when you finished the acting 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:35.880 company and you've decided, you know, you've done enough, it's 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.760 four years, which was a typical of people, Then where 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.520 do you go? Then? Um, we came home, Kevin and 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.600 I came home. And so you you're with Kevin Kevin 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:49.160 and you're Kevin and you were a couple for seven years. 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:51.480 We broke up, we got back together, we broke up, 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.319 we got back together, we broke up, we got backing. 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:56.559 Can you imagine the children you would have had for him? 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.680 Could God in Heaven, good God, would have a theater 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.440 big enough to house that person's ego and talent. So 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.800 we both came home and Kevin went off and did 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:13.680 a play. And I had auditioned for and didn't get 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.800 The Baker's Wife Steven Schwartz musical The Baker's Wife based 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:25.880 on Marcel But I got a telephone call from David 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.400 Merrick's general manager, Helen Nickerson, and to ask if I 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:30.960 was free, because they wanted me to come out to 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:34.600 LA to replace the leading lady. And I wanted to 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.760 do this musical so badly. So I went out and 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:44.360 I did my first big, gut wrenching rip out of 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:50.640 your body, squished heart, the most horrible, vulnerable experience of 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.560 my life. The baker's wife, Who does he think he is? 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.640 Who could be as handsome, who could be as smart 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.480 as he thinks he is? He just had to snap 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:04.440 his face. Good women fall uppart? What does he think 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:12.440 that a single way with them rise? And it was 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.720 an unbelievable disaster and we were on the road for 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:21.320 six months. That is that's the big question. It is 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.880 a great idea, it's a great film, and had Stephen 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.319 Schwartz music, It had John Milzino's last sets, Jennifer tipped 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.839 into the lights and theonyologist did the costumes. David Merrick 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.640 was producing. It had all the potential to be a 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.800 smash hit, and it got progressive. I joined two days 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.920 after they opened in l A. And it got progressively worse. 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.920 For you while you were doing no I thought it 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.840 was gonna be okay, but I didn't realize that nobody 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.640 realized what was really going to happen to us and 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.600 it and what did happen, Well, six people were fired. 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.000 The show never got better. David Merrick came out. One 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.200 of the most theatrical moments I've ever had in my 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.680 career was David Merrick showing up in San Francisco. We 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.640 were performing in San Francisco with no director. We were 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:08.960 told to stay after the show. They assembled us on 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.160 the stage and there was it was not lit except 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.120 for the ghost light. David Merrick shut up and stood 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.040 in front of the ghost light, so he was totally 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.319 back lit. Couldn't see his face, only saw the outline 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:24.000 of a long coat and a bowler hat, and proceeded 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:27.520 to ask us to go into rehearsal for nothing, so 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.440 that we could save this wonderful show. And it was 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.839 so dramatic, because he's incredibly dramatic, and so in the 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.000 light of day, everybody went, what we had just gotten 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.960 out of rehearsal for nothing. We were in rehearsal every 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.680 single day, performing at night for six months, and what 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.600 we rehearsed that day when in that night only to 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:49.600 rehearse the next day, and that stuff would come out, 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.679 some new stuff would go in that was not better 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.640 than what we had just taken. A little laboratory. We 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:59.720 were not but people were dying. The rats were dying. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:04.480 That's losing air. Oh my god. It was so horrible. 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.960 And you know, there's an expression, Larry Gilbert's expression, if 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.280 Hitler were alive today, his punishment should be to send 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.040 him out on the road with a musical in trouble. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.040 I did a movie once in the movie was going 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:18.040 really badly and said, this is as if the government 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:20.920 made movies. You know you, I've always said there's a 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:22.640 fine line between a hit and a flop, and it's 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:24.720 you don't know what it is. You don't know why 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.640 it is a hit, and you don't know why it 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.559 is a fun. You know, if it's really terrible, you 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:31.280 know right off the bat and you're not going to 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.120 take the job. But if it has the potential to 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.000 be a hit and ends up being a flop, you 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.320 can't figure it out. So you do this show and 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:42.720 when you come out of that, like, what's the lesson 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.000 for you? Was there something you said to yourself? Never 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.760 again am I going to know? I went into a 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.080 depression for nine months. I was on valium to sleep 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.199 for the six months and I went into a valium 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:57.520 depression for nine months, gained forty pounds, woke up, went 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:02.640 what the hell just happened? And I couldn't say. You 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.480 think like you? You care a lot. There's nothing casual 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.079 about you, there's nothing amateurish about you. You know, you're 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.760 very serious and you're very dedicated. You're very hard working 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.240 along with being very talented, and you feel these wounds. 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.240 Why do you think that is why? Well, our business 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.320 is subjective. It's all subjective, you know what I mean. 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.400 You talk to anybody from the baker's wife and they 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.080 can remember it as if it was yesterday, and there's 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.200 blood spilled and we became blood, a blood family. I 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.120 just ad to me Jerome, who's in phantom now and 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.720 we see each other, and that what we recall is 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.760 that bonding in that horrible experience and we can talk 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:40.680 about it as if it was yesterday. I think it's 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.160 because you know it happened to us. Of course it 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.280 happened to the creators, but they're not on stage. We're 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.200 on stage, succeeding or failing in front of an audience. 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.080 We're on stage being judged by the audience. Were the messengers, 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:53.920 We're the ones who take the hit. We take the 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.040 hit all the time. This was really abusive. It was 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.600 just horrible. I woke up one morning and my face 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.360 was filled with what looked like white heads. The entire 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.640 face had raised bumps on it. I didn't know what 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.680 it was. I went to sleep, woke up and the 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.720 entire face. Maybe it was from the value. I have 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.160 no idea what I was. Things were happening to us, 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.200 physically happening to us. And when does the sun come 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.440 out for you? When does the sun come out for 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.160 Patti Lapone? Career wise, I think when I go back 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.280 to work with David Mammitt, I go back and work 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.680 with David, I go into and go back. David and 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.040 I did a play in Chicago. Wh was that? After 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.680 Baker's wife? Was that? I see, I'm trying to keep 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:37.160 I'm trying to keep it straight. What play does you 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.000 do with him? First? The very first play I did 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:40.600 with him was a thing called All Men or hors 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.760 Kevin Sam Chiefs and I did it at Yale rep 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:45.840 for one night. I said, Hey, Dave, we opened it 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.400 closed in new Haven, and new Haven used to be 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.920 one of the circuit. Uh. You know, when you took 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:52.960 a show out of town, your first stop was new 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.800 Haven and it was a big deciding factor. So we 0:15:55.880 --> 0:16:00.440 opened and closed, we bombed well and him there. He 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.520 gave me a play called The Woods. And what happens 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:04.560 when you do the Woods, Well, I go back to 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.480 what I was trained for, and I go back to 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.520 an honest environment pretty much, and you're back to the 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:17.720 circle of trust, having feels right. This is more like it. 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:19.840 And it's a risk. It's a big risk. And when 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.160 every time I work with David, I learned so much 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.720 as a human being, approximate And I think nineteen late 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.920 nineteen seventy seventy seven, you had a relationship with him, Yes, 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.960 well we met him five years Yes, yes, and I will. 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.640 I will drop everything to do a play by David everything. 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:40.000 I don't care how risky it is. I learned so 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.640 much from David and I instinctually have the mam At speak. 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.760 That's something that I know how to do. His his 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.960 rhythms um and I think it's because, as someone said, 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.000 I cut my teeth on David. David's words when you 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.680 know starting with Allmen or Horse and the Woods and 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.240 the Water Engine and Edmund. I had finished Evita and 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.520 I went down to the must play us at the 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.639 opening of Um Edmund, and I said, why couldn't I 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.360 have been in this in the back of my head? 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.160 And not two weeks later I got a call from 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.040 Gregory Mosher and David saying, would you replace Linda. Linda's 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.320 a Chicago actress and she wanted to go back to Chicago. 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.840 She was playing the wife. She came on and she 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.200 was at the beginnings and broke the dish or whatever 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:22.879 it is exactly. I'm leaving you. She's what do you 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:24.840 mean you're leaving? Of course we'relieving, We're really geting dressed. 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.439 We're thinking, No, I'm leaving you. What do you know this? 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.879 You know? I begged Mama to give me the right 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:31.120 to do the movie, but he gave it to Bill 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:35.399 Macy and so I um joined the company and my 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.840 agent was so furious with me. He said, this will 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.959 hurt your negotiational you know ability, And I went for 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.320 what you know, If anybody in the business knows who 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:46.480 I am, they know that this is where I came 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.760 from before I did Evita, and they did not want 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:52.479 me to go backwards. They didn't want me to go 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:54.600 to the Gut three to do Rosalind and As You 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.920 Like It. But I was able to work with leave 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.000 you Chule, a great Romanian director, or just passed outrest 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.119 to sell in his internationally famous production of As You 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:04.960 Like It At the Gunman. I was raped over the 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.680 calls by the critics. One critics said, you know, basically, 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.360 what was Evita doing here? And it was It was difficult, 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:12.760 as you say, to straddle that, but I kept doing 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.880 it because I was given the opportunity to do it. 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.080 And I wasn't going to say no, I have to 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.240 wait for the next VI to part to come along. 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.879 If I waited for the next part to come along, 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.760 I'd still be waiting. Is Evita the next big thing 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:36.520 for you? Is the big thing that was? But how 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:41.040 does that happen? I auditioned um Joanna Merlin is how 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.320 princess casting director and of course how directed, how directed? 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:46.880 And as I said earlier, all of those people had 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.720 come to see this acting company at Juilliard were aware. 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.359 They were aware, yes, And so I was brought in 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:55.560 for a preliminary audition and then I was told to 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:57.800 make myself free, make sure that I made myself free 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.520 for the final callback. And as I understand that how 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.760 wanted to cast actors in the role the roles as 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:06.840 opposed to just musical theater people. So I think that's 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:08.639 one of the reasons why I got in there, because 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.920 I knew they knew I was an actor. In between, 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.520 there were several plays. There was stage directions by Israel Horovitz, 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.719 John Glover, Ellen Green and Night Down at the Public. 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.280 While Merrill is doing, um, you're doing everything you can 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.560 to scratch that inch of yours and not become a star. 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:26.760 Now I get it. No, no, it was it was 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.840 It was the available work. We're about to talk about 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.480 the moment when perhaps one of the greatest musical stars 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:38.040 of the last fifty years is born on Broadway. So 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.600 let's talk about how that the moment this happens, How 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.280 Prince wants people who can act and sing, and you 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.679 go to the make yourself available to the final cullback 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:47.520 and what happened. How do you feel when you're in 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:50.440 that room. Well, I was very mad because I was 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:55.320 actually shooting and there was a little issue about yes, 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.040 about letting me go and the producer said, if you're 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.320 not back tomorrow or the next day, you're you'll never 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.960 work in Hollywood again. So I left Hollywood with those 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.720 words ringing in my ear, and I woke up in 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:08.920 New York to the nineteen seventy eight blizzard where they're 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.639 like two ft of snow on the ground. I couldn't 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:15.080 get back to l are you no? Um. Christopher Reeve 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.080 got me on the plane. I only missed three hours 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.639 of shooting. When they said howd you get here? I said, Superman. 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:26.680 I did. It's exactly. So I went to the final callback, 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.040 but I was really mad because I didn't want to 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.720 do this musical. I didn't like the music. I thought, Evita, 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:37.280 you didn't like it? What specifically? You're a smart woman, 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.639 what specifically didn't you like? Well, I didn't like I 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.240 heard the White album the Julie Covington David Essex called 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:46.800 Wilkinson very rocky, weird music, but right it rocked out 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:48.639 a lot, and I thought, what's rock? I want to 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:53.000 be a rocker. It was really really high. Didn't grab me. 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.359 I mean, I grew up on Rogers and Hammerstein. I 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.720 grew up on Julie Stein, Mereth Wilson, Stephen Sondheim. This 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.560 was not a musical to me, This was noise from Britain. 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:05.760 Do you know what I mean? It wasn't. It just didn't. 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:07.879 It did. So how did you go out there and 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.000 do it? I went out and and the final audition, 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:11.600 I was wet from my knees down. I was wearing 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.760 sneakers and jeans, not knowing it was going to snow. 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:15.719 Who you know, I did so stupid. I didn't look 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.600 at the weather report. I went out there and I blasted, 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.720 literally blasted through rainbow high Buenos Aires and don't cry 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:26.080 for me, Argentina. And there were tears in my eyes apparently, 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.480 and there were there were tears of rage, necessarily not 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.480 tears of And I left, and um, I got I 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.040 got a call on the set. I made it back 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:36.520 and I got a call on the set and the 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.520