WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 186 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:03.120 Also media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.480 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.720 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:31.200 Hello everyone, and welcome to the podcast. It's me James today, 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.879 and I'm joined by my friend and yours, Charles McBride, 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:40.440 documentary filmmaker, humanitarian activist, writer. And you've just been in Palestine, 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.120 is that right, Charles, Yeah, just got back like a 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.360 week and a half ago. Nice, welcome, Welcome to America 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.159 and the Free Damn, that's a rough transition. Actually, thank 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.760 you for Thank you for joining us so soon after 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.040 you got back. So there's a lot to talk about, right, 0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:00.080 Like I feel as if, in like legacy me the 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:04.240 year when there is less discussion of Palestine recently, maybe 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.440 just because I'm seeing so much domestic US coverage like 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:09.520 twenty four to seven, right, we're in another like Trump 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.840 news cycle. But yeah, especially with reference to the West Bank. Actually, like, 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.560 can you look update people on the last maybe you know, 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:20.200 maybe in the time you were there, and then what's 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:21.680 suspected what's happening in the West Bank. 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:23.679 I think that's going to be even less coverage. Sure, 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:25.680 So I've taken two tricks for the West Bank in 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.240 the past year. Yeah, So August of last year May 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:34.240 of this year. I noticed a rapid deterioration just between 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.200 those two time periods. So, I mean it was bad 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:39.960 last year when we went. That was right when I 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:43.040 was when my team went there to begin our documentary, 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.640 they had just launched this new operation in the West Bank, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.840 which was pretty much the largest ground operation they launched 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.720 Israelis had launched since the second Endebata, and it was 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.880 targeted at the northern refugee camps of Focam, Nurse Shams, 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.680 and Jeanine. A lot of people know Janine, they've heard 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.600 that in the news, you know, it's relatively familiar. Not 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.200 a lot of people realized that the situation in Tokyoom 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.280 and in Norsham's is quite similar, and those three camps 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.760 in particular were targeted by the IDF operation. On the 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.040 second trip, we couldn't even We couldn't even get to 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.040 those places, not with the unrep personnel that we were 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.320 supposed to go with our documentaries on UNRUTH, the United 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:26.120 Nations Relief Works Agency for Palatign refugees. And last time 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:27.320 we were there, they were able to bring us to 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.680 the camp. They showed us where the Israelis had you know, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.480 bulldozed their facilities and done various air strikes in the camp. 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:34.600 This time they. 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:36.839 Couldn't even take us there. So we went to other 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:41.160 camps and said camp everyone's spirits were low. Lots of 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.760 people were talking about West Bank annexation as if it 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.160 seemed like an inevitability. 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:47.079 Yeah. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.600 Yeah, And I actually spent some time inside forty eight 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:51.919 on this trip, and I went down to Yafa and 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.480 to Tel Aviv and interviewed some long time kind of 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:00.720 liberal journalists from RITZ and they we're just talking about 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.680 how the shift in Israeli society over the last year 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:06.760 has been quite marked as well, particularly around the question 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.240 of just generally ethnically cleansing Gaza, which was something that was, 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.760 according to his telling, like really only heard in very 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.920 right wing circles like Kannis circles over the past a 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.280 couple decades and is now just pretty routinely heard across 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.920 the spectrum Israeli society that the best solution to this 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.800 is should just deport everyone from Gaza. 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:32.320 Yeah, that's pretty bleak, Like I mean, I guess the 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.360 process of manufacturing consent has been pretty pretty successful and 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:40.480 pretty complete in that sense, Like just the dehumanization of 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:45.040 Palestinian people has been pretty successful at least there. I 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.240 guess if people aren't familiar, we should just like explain 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:52.360 that Palestine is well. The areas which are now like 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.520 legally allotted to Palestinians, I guess, are not contiguous, right, 0:03:55.560 --> 0:04:00.360 Jaza in the West Bank at different areas separated by Israel, 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.320 and like the bulk of what you have seen in 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.760 the last two years has been Israel's war on the 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.680 people of Gaza, but the West Bank is a different 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.840 and larger area which has also seen significant israelly like 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:18.120 military aggression and violence from settlers, right, like a paramilitary aggression. 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.599 I guess you could call it. People I think maybe 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.560 will have heard of ANRA or maybe will at least 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.159 be familiar with seeing it. Can you explain, like what 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.560 the agency does. It's a unique agency, right, like it 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.279 doesn't work anywhere else in the world. It's quite a 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.400 unique thing to this Israel Palestine context. 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.800 Yeah, so ANRA is probably the most controversial UN agency, 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.200 and that has everything to do with the context in 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.719 which it was founded. It was explicitly set up in 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:51.760 coordination between the United States, the newly founded State of Israel, 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.640 and the Arab League coming to the United Nations and 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.360 presenting a plan to deal with the displacement of seven 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.000 hundred thousand Palestinians from their home as a result of 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.560 Nakba in nineteen forty eight. So out of that context, 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:09.640 it's designed as a temporary aid refugee organization. It actually 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:14.200 it's set up before un HCR, so it's mandated specifically 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:18.680 for the Palestinians, and the Palestinians don't end up falling 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.920 under un HDR when it's established. So there's a lot 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.640 of particularities about UNRA that make it different from other 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.800 UN agencies, which is also something that the Israelis like 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:32.839 to highlight because they're engaged in a multi decade credibility 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:34.159 campaign against UNRA. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:36.640 But to the extent that it is. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:42.640 Almost entirely staffed by Palestinians, it is quite different than 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:48.680 other un agencies, which typically involve multinationals international personnel. Now, 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:50.880 a lot of the higher leadership at UNRA is still 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:56.080 kind of your same international diplomats, but in the words 0:05:56.120 --> 0:06:00.000 of the Zionist academic that I interviewed for this documentary, 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.800 most of those have quote unquote gone native. So most 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:09.120 of the international diplomats do tend to, you know, obviously 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:12.520 be quite sympathetic to the conditions which the Palestinian staff 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:17.640 are are working under. So my documentary is a it's 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.800 an investigative documentary to some extent, and it uses the 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.800 frame narrative of the Israeli allegations that UNRA had been 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.840 infiltrated by Hamas and that UNRA personnel had taken place 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.120 in the October seventh massacre. Yeah, it uses that as 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.719 a hook and a frame narrative to talk about what 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:33.960 is this organization? 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:34.440 Yeah? 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:36.919 Why did it go from something that was set up 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.760 as a temporary relief organization to seventy seven years later? 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.719 It is responsible for maintaining the livelihood and well being 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:49.440 of five point nine million registered Palestinian refugees, not only 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.279 in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, but also 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:56.839 in Syria. In Lebanon and in Jordan. So the politics 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.760 of it get very hazy very quickly. But it's kind 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:04.080 of an inconvenient thing for everyone because the organization was 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.080 explicitly designed to end right after a few years. But 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.240 the assumption was after a few years there would have 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:13.160 been a political resolution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. There 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.200 has not been, and here we are seventy six, seventy 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.000 seven years later and we're still at that point, so 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:19.120 un still exists. 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:19.720 Yeah. 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:21.760 One of the ironic things we've found when filming this 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.360 documentary is that everyone involved in this process wants this 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:30.120 organization to go away. Yeah, Israelis, the Palestinians, the staff themselves. 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:34.520 The only thing they disagree on is when and under 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:35.200 what conditions? 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:35.480 Why? 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.720 Yeah, I think it's Yeah, it's very interesting, like as 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:42.360 refuge agencies go, because, like just I was recently reading 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.000 Sally Hayden's or rereading Sally Hayden's book about the refugees 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.440 in Libya. Right, it's called My Fourth Time We Drowned. 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:50.160 It's an excellent bok. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:51.760 If people haven't read it, that you read it, very 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.680 good audiobook as well. Like that they incorporate some of 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:56.400 the voice notes you got from the refugees, which I 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.640 think is good, and as it's typical of United Nations 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.080 refuge you workers in many areas, the bulk of them 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.080 end up living or spending a lot of time in Tunisia, right, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.720 like not in Libya and coming in like in you know, 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.200 the typical image that you see of the United Nations 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.520 is like a bunch of people in white land cruisers, right, 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:15.920 and they pull up and they do their thing and 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.960 they leave. They're not either part of the population or 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.920 or even with the population. And they're often criticized for 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:23.800 this around the world, right, and they're very susceptible to 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:28.200 like state narratives, right like in Libya there's there's all 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.400 kinds of evacuations of corruption or like sort of state capture. 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:33.640 I guess, so an agency that's supposed to be international 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.600 and supposed to be impartial, and they're supposed to above 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.160 all things, advocate for refugees, right, And sometimes you can 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.200 see at tension between the IOM and the UNHCR of 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.480 this kind of shit. It's different with under a right 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.400 like like they are from what I've heard from Palestinian friends, 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:54.439 like more respected by Palestinian people. Because of the work 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.439 that they do and the value that they provide. 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:58.960 Yeah, I mean, I would say, like trust in HONRA 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:04.640 is probably higher than in the Palestinian authority. The PA 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:08.000 is largely seen as a contractor or subcontractor for Israel, right, 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:12.439 and UNRA is seen, you know, as flawed. I mean, 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:14.960 there are a lot of Palestinians who are deeply critical 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.959 of UNRA, particularly the constant efforts it takes to sort 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.960 of remain neutral on all of these political questions. Yeah, 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:23.360 and you know, inefficiencies that are going to come with 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.200 any multinational institution in Goo. Yeah, of course, but in 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.120 general they seem to I mean, at this point, we've 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.920 interviewed dozens of people who had various relationship whether they 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.360 had gone to UNRAS schools or they had taken you know, 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.520 they had been to unrehealth clinics, and by and large 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.520 they they preferred these and they saw the value in UNRA. 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.760 They liked the unraschools, they liked the unrahealth clinics. UNRA 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.720 is largely responsible for the fact that Palestinians are one 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.560 of the most literate populations in the Middle East, and 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.040 many of them speak English incredibly well. I mean like, yeah, 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.200 it's wild talking to an eight or nine year old 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.920 girl who grew up in a refugee camp and she's 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.480 speaking to me in perfect English talking about how she 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.880 wants to move to Los Angeles and become an actress. 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:11.440 And it's just it's wild. And that's kind of a 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.240 testament to what Unner has done. And that's very inconvenient 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.600 for Israel because when you educate a lot of refugees 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.160 who can then learn English and turn around and speak 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.360 to the world in very eloquent ways about the nature 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:26.199 of their oppression and their suffering, it becomes an ideological 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.840 barrier to your particular political project. 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.880 Right, And this is one of the things that has 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:36.520 distinguished the genocide in Gaza in terms of like how 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.400 it's been perceived in the US at least, Right, is that, like, 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.439 you have a very literate population that is able to 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:47.760 articulate what is happening directly via social media and to 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.720 traditional media, right, like to people like yourself making documentaries 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:57.840 like this is distinct from populations like I think of 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.240 the Rahinga right, you know, I speak to Rahinga people 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.640 pretty often, but I don't think most Americans see Rahingah 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.000 folks if they go on TikTok or Instagram and you know, 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.600 as a result, I think people would have cared as deeply. 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.120 You know, people would have been in the streets for that. 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.680 But that communication wasn't that And yeah, it is extremely inconvenient. 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.720 If your project isn't an ethno state, right and you're 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.840 willing to cleanse areas of other ethnicities to build your 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:30.120 ethno state in it, which is what's happening, then it's 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.439 very convenient. If there's people you're trying to cleanse can 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:34.360 talk to the world, you know, in the language of 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.880 the world, understands and very eloquently and make their case 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.640 for not being ethnically cleansed. Yet, No, it is tribute 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.560 to the work that animal has done. You know what, 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.000 I guess we should do. I guess we should take 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:48.000 an advertising break right now. So let's do that. 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:48.719 Wean't come back. 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.960 All right, we are back. Let's talk about the alternative 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.720 to UNRA. Alternative is a wrong word. Let's talk about 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.640 the attempt to make an end run around unrisk existence 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:14.560 by installing this fascicle NGO. I guess you could call 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.360 it an ADO or like aid provider. This is a 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:23.680 Gaza Humanitarian Fund people who aren't familiates, synthetic alternative. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:28.600 this sute. This is like the zin of UNRA, you know. Okay, 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.439 so what's going on with the guy? But let's talk 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.040 about what it is and what it claims to do first, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:34.640 and then we'll talk about how it's not doing it 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.160 very well or at all, like people are fucking dying 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:39.079 in droves. 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.320 Yeah, mil high View. 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.920 UNRA maintains most of the aid going in and out 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.560 of Gaza. Everyone I know in the humanitarian world has 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.040 had to interface at least to some degree with UNRA 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:56.800 during the aid process, and that's difficult because it has 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:02.240 been essentially been declared a terrorist by the Israeli government 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.880 and has been banned from operating inside what Israel considers 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.520 to be its territory, including occupied East Jerusalem and increasingly 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.000 in the West Bank. They're trying to limit its operations 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.320 and in Gaza they say they can't work with them 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.240 because they're Hamas. So it's the UNER people are quite 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.400 confused because they they've had to deconflict with the Israelis 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:24.200 for this entire time and recently as a result of 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.640 this law. It's actually become illegal under Israeli law for 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.480 the Israelis to coordinate with UNRA, and so the UNRA 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.760 people don't have been actually they don't really understand what's 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.720 going to happen. There's been some limited coordination, but still 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:39.480 we talk to people who are very high up in 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.080 the organization and they essentially had no idea what the 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.000 Israelis were planning to do to replace UNRA or to 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.520 coordinate with them in Gaza, and so they just kept 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.240 kind of doing their thing until the Israelis literally made 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.400 them stop in certain instances. Right My documentary is called 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.719 the War on UNRA, and part of this war has 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.400 been the propaganda efforts and the Israelis going after this 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.080 organization and everyone in the humanitarian aid world's sort of 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:05.640 been asking the question, well, what are you going to 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.400 do to replace it? This is an organization that deals 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.480 with like two million people in Gaza and like three 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.600 million in the West Bank. Not all of those are 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:15.880 registered with UNRUPP, but it's dealing with all the refugee 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.680 camps there in Gaza itself is a refugee camp like 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.440 it only exists as such as a result of the 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.680 knack Buck because it's where they put all of the 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.480 displaced people who weren't in Jordan. Yeah, and so the 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.480 Israelis basically had the backskins Wall, and they're like, okay, well, 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.360 we have to come up with some alternative to this 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.040 because we can't come out and say, actually, our main 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.160 goal is to depopulate Gaza and settle it. 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:37.640 Yeah. 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:41.160 Yeah, And so they cooked up this idea of the 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:45.920 Gaza Humanitarian Fund, which was kind of this public private 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:50.680 partnership backed by the Israelis and the Americans, and the 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:54.440 intention was to entirely subvert not only UNRUB but the 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:58.920 entire UN infrastructure that goes into the Gaza strip. For instance, 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:03.040 every UN agency in the world actually piggybacks off of 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.920 the World Food Program because they're always the first ones in. 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:10.840 So it's WFP infrastructure, trucks, you know, vehicles, everything like 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.520 that that goes in first, and then UNHCR, UNISEF, all 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:18.120 this thing they're piggybacking, coordinating with WFP. In this instance, 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.040 WFP is coordinating with UNRA. The Israelis one died not 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.600 only bypass UNRA. They want to just put the entire 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.400 UN system out of that. So to do that, they 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.280 formed this sort of collaborative partnership under the management of 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.120 the Israelis, which was supposed to be kind of an 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:38.760 amalgam of all of these different private NGOs. And I 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:40.640 don't want to get too much into the specifics of 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.040 like who sort of was involved in that, but a 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.680 lot of people kind of took them at face value. 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.920 This is they wanted this to be a real solution, 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.560 and so they offered to help and kind of set 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.000 up this system which was supposed to be overseen entirely 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.360 by the Israelis and the Americans from a security perspective. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:56.880 Yeah. 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:58.600 One of those was Jake woodho was the founder of 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.320 Team Rubicon, which is an organization that does a fair 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.440 amount of excellent work all around the world. She resigned 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.960 from the Godza Humanitarian Fund a day before it launched 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.240 and went on record saying we cannot actually do this 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:16.200 while keeping to humanitarian principles of humanity and neutrality, which 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:18.880 was a signal to the world that this was a 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.280 highly politicized project, which is precisely what the World Food 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:26.920 Program under the leadership of radical leftist activist Cindy McCain 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:31.440 has been saying about this from the start, and une 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.360 Philipe Lazarini, the head of UNRA, said, this is a 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.720 clearly political sized event under the only the UN system 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.880 is the only one capable of actually dealing with this 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.920 in a humanitarian way. All those concerns were brushed aside. 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:48.040 American contractors were brought in and the results were relatively predictable. 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:52.440 We've seen at this point two pseudo massacres, I mean, 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.680 the first one with that full Palastinians were killed, and 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.000 just this morning, twenty seven Palastinians were killed at a 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.880 GHF distribution after gunfire was opened up on them. 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.399 Yeah, we're recording on the third a Gene so that 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.760 was when this second massacre occurred. And yeah, like I mean, 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.720 just today, as we're recording this, I've seen that Boston 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.720 Consulting Group again like not exactly, like a bastion of wokeness, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.240 has terminated this relationship with the Guards Humanitarian Foundation, Right, 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:24.320 Like the kind of conceit that this is a replacement 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.720 for UNRAH to begin with was somewhat fascical, right, But 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.119 people who were prepared to go along with that, either 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:33.600 because they can make money doing it or because they 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.440 thought this was the only way to stop people starving, 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.000 are still deciding that, having seen the way that this 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.960 is run, it's not worth it, right, right, And there's 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.680 also some political heavy handedness going on with this, one 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:50.960 of the most obvious features being specific aid distribution points 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.280 in the south of Gaza, which are designed to bring 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.720 you know, whereas UNRA and WFP were going to people, 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.879 they were trying to get food through as much of 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:01.920 the Kazas trip is possible, including people who wanted to 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.800 return to their homes in the north, the JCHEF is like, nope, 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.119 you starving population will need to make the journey to 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.760 this distribution point. And this distribution point only, which you know, 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.840 has the political effect of depopulating these areas that you 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.560 know Israel is operating in. Yeah, which of course is 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:22.040 also that criticism. There's some videos going around so Impalstinians celebrating, Yeah, 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.359 you know, the relief efforts of the of the JHEF. 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.520 I think some of them have been like verified by Reuters. 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.119 You know, Israeli media is making hey of that. You know, 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.720 people praising Trump in Gaza, right, which you know, these 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.359 people are starving and they're very happy to get aid. Yeah, 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.200 that doesn't mean that like everything is above board and cool. Right, 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.000 it means that like the people who need to food 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:42.520 got feed. 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.440 Yeah, I mean, and that's the political complexity. The situation 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.760 is that the people of Gaza have just been abandoned 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.000 by everyone, right, I mean, there's there's there's a lot 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:51.840 of criticism to be a had of how Hamas has 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.120 handled this. There's a lot of criticism to be had 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.719 of obviously the way in which Israel has behaved and 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.479 the UN system and the international system. So I mean, 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.000 I'm glad that like some of them are getting food. Yeah, 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:05.960 that is that is an improvement off of none of 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.280 them getting food. But everyone in the AID world is 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.240 starting to go on record saying the main problem is 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.080 Israel preventing AID from going into the Gaza strip. And 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:16.679 actually I want to harp on that a little bit 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.360 because the reason that has been given primarily for that 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.240 is that Hamas is stealing the aide. Every time they're 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.880 asked about this, they go back to, well, we want 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:28.119 to get aid to people Gaza. Unfortunately Hamas keeps stealing 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.879 the aid and so we can't allow it. We need 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.159 to allow us to trickle in. Yeah, that's interesting for 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.040 two reasons. First of all, the yet to provide any 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.800 evidence that that's actually occurring. And second, because all humanitarian 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:41.240 experts agree that even if that was the case, say 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.160 everything Israel said about Hamas was true, and they were stealing, 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:45.920 you know, ninety ninety five percent of the aid that's 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.960 coming in and selling it back. The humanitarian solution to 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.400 that would be to flood the strip with so much 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.399 aid that it would literally be impossible for them to 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.480 like to stop that, which we can't do, Like it 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.480 would be possible for us to flood the Gaza Strip 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:01.119 with so much aid that it would be like an 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.720 abundance of food. So the decision not to do that 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:04.800 is a political one. 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:07.240 Yes, definitely, Like I was going to say, on the 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:11.159 face of it, it doesn't matter. There are lots of situations, 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:14.399 to be clear, where people steal aid. It's undesirable, of 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:16.560 course it is. But yeah, the solution is more aid, 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.160 not like unfortunately the aid has been stolen, so now 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.120 then children must have. Yeah, that only works if you're 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.600 prepared to accept the outcome in which little children die 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:26.560 of starvation. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:27.600 Which the Israelis are. 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.960 They're perfectly I mean this near was a University of 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.760 Pennsylvania poll. I'm not saying eighty four percent of Israelis 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.680 are in favor of the idea of just simply either 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.879 killing or displacing everyone in the Gaza strip eighty four percent. 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.760 Yeah, it's wild to see, Like it's been such a 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.960 strange couple of years in that sense, right, because more 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.359 people in this country are aware of the plight of 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.880 the people of Palestine than ever have been, and more 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:59.159 people are engaged with it. That is mostly good. Some 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.040 people have been gaged it in a way which is 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.920 far from good, right, Like, I don't think there's really 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:08.440 very much to be gained. Fucking throwing molotov cocktails people 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.720 in Boulder is not making anything better for anyone. It's 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.640 just making everything danger more dangerous for everyone. And it's 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:15.360 fucking stupid. 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.639 And I would extend that to gunning down yes, so 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.399 would I. Yeah, Israeli a couples outside of the Jewish 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:23.920 Museum in DC. I don't think that's necessarily the best 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:27.040 way to help people in Gaza. No, Like, yeah, standing 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.520 outside the vent for Jewish people and fucking shooting random people, 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:33.080 it's not that. Again, it doesn't make anyone safer, it 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.080 makes all of us left safe, and like, it does 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:39.040 nothing to stop people dying and starving in Gaza, and 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.720 that's it's not the crux of the problem, I guess, 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:43.239 but like that is a problem, right that people are 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:47.120 engaging with Gaza, but nothing is helping people here know 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.960 how bad it is that children are starving in Gaza, 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:52.720 But that hasn't changed the fact that children are starving 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.720 in Gaza. In fact, like you know what I've said, 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:57.199 it's a lot of times like I moved her in 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.080 two thousand and eight, and I had engaged with the 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.520 movement before that in the UK, right and the situation 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:06.679 passtime to be was very different then, but like it 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:08.960 wasn't something that people had heard of here for the 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:12.919 most part, unless you were within like certain leftist or 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:15.919 sort of people of maybe they're like Middle East an 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:18.639 extraction would know about it. Of course, now people do know, 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:20.280 and all over the world people know, and we've seen 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.320 huge marches. Right, Like the situation is worse than it's 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:25.560 ever been, I mean not ever being the knuck Bowl 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:29.000 was pretty fucked too. But as the world looks on, right, like, 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:33.080 the gender side continues and people continue dying, and seemingly 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:38.320 the acceptance of the Gardis Humanitarian Foundation by states of 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:42.680 the world. Is really troubling, right, Like, we're concentrating this 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:47.280 starving population in a small area. It's contrary to everything 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:52.280 that humanitarian principles stand for. And I know we don't see. 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.240 I mean, there is a very ready alternative. It's whether 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:58.240 anyone is willing to step up and tell Israel to 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:01.640 stop stopping aid and the god like this could end 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:04.520 at least in my estimation, like very quickly. Right, we 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:07.199 have enough aid and even aid in the region to 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:10.320 feed all those people right now if we needed to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:13.119 there's there's there's tens of millions of pounds of food 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:15.879 rotting and warehouses and Jordan and Egypt right now just 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:17.240 waiting to go across the border. 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:19.160 Yeah, and people dying. 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.199 It's the lack of political will, mostly on behalf of 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:25.080 the United States, you know, but also I think the 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:29.480 members of the Abraham Accords and the EU. Yeah, it's 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.280 a devastating indictment. And I think the interesting thing about 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:35.280 it is it truly pulls the mask off of the 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:40.560 quote unquote rules based world order. Yeah, the US led 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:43.640 rules based world order, because you just I mean, it's 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:46.680 just so obvious that no matter how many people want 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:49.800 this terrible thing to end. That we're seeing this very 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:53.399 obvious genocide is being livestream to our phones. The powers 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:56.679 that be are too invested to to let it stop. 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:59.600 You know, they're they're into the hill. We've already seen 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:03.920 the degree to which the United States is compromised in 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:11.159 its media and government storytelling in relation to Israel Palestine. 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:14.879 Did the long unwillingness of people to speak up about 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:19.159 this followed by the very rapid turnaround of people who 0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:22.119 are now rats fleeing the ship. Yeah, they're seeing the 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:27.440 unmistakable reality of this genocide. And you know, it's like 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:30.679 everyone says, once this is done, everyone will pretend they 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:33.040 were against it from the start. And you're now starting 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:35.080 to see that, right, you know, with like the former 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:36.919 White House Press secretary. 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:38.240 Yeah yeah Miller, Right yeah. 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:40.879 Miller was like, yeah, they've been committing war crimes than 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:42.119 they were doing it while I was there. But I 0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:44.080 didn't speak on my behalf. I was speaking on behalf 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:45.720 of the United States government. 0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:47.680 Right, yeah, the old the old Numberg defense. 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:48.320 M hmm. 0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:50.320 Yeah, They're like, I was just doing my job thing, 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.840 which like is not actually don't actually an excuse for 0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:57.159 participating in war crimes and like should have been an 0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:00.840 excuse for apologizing or excusing them, right. 0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:04.600 I know that you guys have talked about and that 0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:06.720 we'll have spoilers for this, but I know you guys 0:25:06.760 --> 0:25:09.639 have recently had a series Unpacking and Or, which is 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:12.080 my favorite TV show. Yeah, and I was just so 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:15.880 happy that they snuck that one line in about when 0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:18.520 Cyril asks what they're doing here and she just says 0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:19.439 following orders. 0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:20.399 Yeah. 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:22.240 How often are we going to hear that in the 0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:22.960 next few years? 0:25:23.000 --> 0:25:25.760 I guess? Yeah? 0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:30.120 Yeah, it's so predictable, right, Like every time this happens, right, 0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:33.880 And this isn't the first time the United Nations has 0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:37.639 basically allowed it. Genocide tappened right under its nose. No, 0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:40.640 and it will probably won't be the last because, as 0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:43.399 you said, right, like, the idea that we have a 0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:47.119 rules based world order, it's a lie. It's a myth 0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:52.359 that exists to make people feel better and feel like 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:55.200 this stuff couldn't happen again. But like you know, we 0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:58.439 have ICC warrants for people who are traveling freely around 0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:01.359 the world. It doesn't matter that the ICC can't enforce 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:05.000 its own warrants, right, Like you could say something to 0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:09.359 war crime, it doesn't matter. No one's the war police 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:11.280 aren't going to go and arrest all the people doing it. 0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:16.000 Yeah, it's mostly just kind of a Yeah, it's kind 0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:18.200 of a placebo. I'm not really sure what the function 0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:23.840 it serves. I mean, I'm not a big international institutions enjoyer, 0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:26.639 Like I'm deeply skeptical of the United Nations in almost 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:29.000 every one of its aspects. My team and I've talked 0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:31.680 several times about the point that this documentary has that 0:26:32.040 --> 0:26:37.119 weirdly like it's improved our trust in international and geos 0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:39.400 just because we're seeing like the degree to which UNRA 0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:43.520 is operating on increasingly less budget every year and still 0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:44.640 managing to be effective. 0:26:44.800 --> 0:26:44.960 Yeah. 0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:46.720 I think a huge part of that is again, it 0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:49.479 is staffed by the local population who are from these areas, 0:26:49.520 --> 0:26:51.960 and they have a duty and a commitment to care 0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:52.679 to their people. 0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:53.560 Yeah. 0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:55.399 But in general, no, I mean, I don't understand what 0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:57.240 the point of the UN is if you don't give 0:26:57.240 --> 0:27:00.840 it the US military, Like I mean, if as an anarchist, 0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:02.800 I don't believe that this is a great solution to things. 0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:05.320 But like, if you wanted to enforce the UN, you 0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:08.359 would need the World Police, Like you would need to 0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:11.439 just use the United States to like hunt down these people. Yeah, 0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:14.760 and utilize it's eight hundred military bases in every country 0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:16.479 to enforce these rules. 0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:19.119 And we don't really yet we allow these things to happen. 0:27:19.320 --> 0:27:22.119 But yeah, I'm not the big international institutions enjoy either. 0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:24.680 Like I've seen the UN be fucking useless in most 0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:27.640 continents that people live on. I would really like it, though, 0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:30.200 if they would do something to stop the suffering of 0:27:30.280 --> 0:27:33.160 the people of Palestine. Like, it doesn't mean I wouldn't 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:35.280 be happy. It doesn't mean I'm not happy when I 0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:37.280 speak to guys from PK, guys that who we've had 0:27:37.320 --> 0:27:41.040 on our show several times, right, Like when they talk 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:43.120 to us about like where should we send money, They'll 0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:45.280 be like, oh, Unroawa able to get my family some 0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:47.439 food this week or whatever. Like I'm happy to hear that, 0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:51.840 and I'm glad that they're there, Glad that they were 0:27:51.840 --> 0:28:05.640 there at that time. I guess, So, like what does 0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:08.720 the future hold? The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation seems to be 0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:12.639 falling apart within a very short period of this whole 0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:17.840 thing being stood up, which is unsurprising, right, can you explain, like, 0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:20.000 what does it take for a that lives up to 0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:22.880 basic humanitarian principles to get in there? 0:28:23.280 --> 0:28:26.200 I think that's a really difficult question to answer because 0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:28.480 we have bribed so many options. 0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:30.280 Yeah, I mean truly. 0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:32.760 I mean the last time I think I was on 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:35.879 this podcast, it was to talk about my colleagues and 0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:39.560 the World Central Kitchen who got killed in Gaza. That 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:42.120 was an attempt to try and alleviate the suffering of 0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:45.520 Palestinian people, and it had predictable results. You know, there's 0:28:45.600 --> 0:28:47.840 all these groups have been operating and there to the 0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:51.280 extent that they can, and the result has been too little, 0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:55.160 too late. And everyone is saying, from Sidney McCain at 0:28:55.160 --> 0:28:58.560 the World Food Program, to Philip Plazarreni to you know, 0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:03.360 DeAndre like from the private sector, everyone is saying, the 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:05.240 reason this is a problem has nothing to do with moths. 0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:06.960 It has everything to do with about that Israel is 0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:09.040 restricting the amount of aid doing to the Gaza strip. 0:29:09.400 --> 0:29:11.920 And now everyone's waking up and asking the obvious question 0:29:12.120 --> 0:29:15.320 of like, well, why are they actually doing that? And 0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:18.520 in the answer corresponds to those polls we see that 0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:21.520 indicate that, you know, yeah, fifty percent of Israeli society 0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:23.600 is open to killing everyone in the Gaza strip. Eighty 0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:26.280 four percent are open to displacing them all. This is 0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:30.000 just what Israel wants, and I think the humanitarian world 0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:33.920 is slowly swallowing that very difficult pill. And I don't 0:29:34.880 --> 0:29:36.960 I can't really tell you what comes next outside of 0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:38.520 a political resolution. 0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:41.360 Yeah, which seems higher and how to come by in 0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:44.880 the current international climate, Like certainly it's not coming from 0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:46.240 the US, right, Like. 0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:49.080 Yeah, I mean, like something to watch would be that 0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:53.920 Senator Welch from Vermont introduced a bill to immediately refund 0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:56.720 UNROW Okay, yeah, and it has it has a House 0:29:57.080 --> 0:30:01.200 a correlate with I think, yeah, woman Jiapaul and a 0:30:01.200 --> 0:30:03.520 few others who are trying to kind of push that through. 0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:07.160 I mean, the United States funds three hundred million dollars, 0:30:07.200 --> 0:30:10.120 which is about over a third of un annual budget, 0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:12.760 and we've restricted that funding for the past year and 0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:13.200 a half. 0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:15.480 Yeah, so if we restore. 0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:17.280 That, I think that would be a big signal to 0:30:17.520 --> 0:30:20.360 Israel that like, we're not playing ball anymore. 0:30:20.920 --> 0:30:21.200 Yeah. 0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:24.480 I just think when you have a rubber stamp Congress 0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:27.720 and a fascist president, that's probably unlikely to pass. 0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:30.960 That's a big reach. Yeah, yeah, I actually think this 0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:33.360 is an area where elected officials to the right of 0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:35.960 Trump support its on this one. I think, like, you know, 0:30:36.000 --> 0:30:38.000 I spend a lot of time in rural East County 0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:39.800 San Diego, right, Like, I talk to people who have 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:42.520 very different politics to my own. Yeah, it's a nice 0:30:42.520 --> 0:30:44.760 way of saying that, but like I've had people who 0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:47.320 straight up I'm sure voted for Trump be like, man, 0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:51.200 they're letting little children stuff, like what the fuck is wrong? 0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:53.440 You know, Like, like, I think it's an area where 0:30:54.680 --> 0:30:57.600 a more sensible politics would be able to build consensus. 0:30:57.640 --> 0:31:00.520 But here we are, right, yeah, I mean there is 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:03.480 no opposition. Like the Democrats are not an opposition party. 0:31:03.520 --> 0:31:06.440 They're just happy being like the junior partners in fascism. 0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:06.680 Now. 0:31:07.000 --> 0:31:09.680 Yeah, they're having a little party today where they're giving 0:31:09.720 --> 0:31:13.200 out tacos because they're trying to somehow encourage Trump to 0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:18.640 go ahead with more sanctions and tariffs and more genocides. 0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:20.680 I guess, like I don't quite know what the Trump 0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:23.720 always chickens out think, like, well, I'm glad he's stick 0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:27.680 it out with the tariffs, isn't Isn't that a good thing. Yeah, like, yeah, like, 0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:29.520 what are you trying what are you trying to say here? 0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:32.360 I think maybe I don't want to confront what they're 0:31:32.360 --> 0:31:34.840 trying to say. But this is a thing that like 0:31:35.000 --> 0:31:37.880 at the current time, like it needs state action to 0:31:37.880 --> 0:31:40.840 stop it. Yeah, we do not have an organization which 0:31:40.880 --> 0:31:42.880 which is able to mobilize people in such a way 0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:45.560 that they can stop it, like and that is it's 0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:49.000 really desperate if you care, right, because the states of 0:31:49.000 --> 0:31:51.920 the world very clearly for decades and decades and decades 0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:55.840 have been unconcerned with Palestinian people and their wellbeing and 0:31:55.880 --> 0:31:59.440 they're not doing shit about it now. I think there 0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:01.640 are still people who are able to make a meaningful 0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:03.680 benefit to the lives of people in the West Bank. 0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:04.000 Right. 0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:07.160 I understand why people are hopeless when they look at 0:32:07.160 --> 0:32:09.080 what's happening, you guys, And I understand why it seems 0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:13.800 bleak and it seems like there's nothing you can do. 0:32:13.920 --> 0:32:18.479 Are there things that like concrete actions, organizations, groups that 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:21.520 you think people can engage with and we've heard from 0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:23.400 some of them on the show before, right to be 0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:26.560 in a solidarity way or to help people in the 0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:27.080 West Bank. 0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:30.720 Yeah, you know, I think like, I honestly, I think 0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:33.200 there are people who could probably better answer this question 0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:36.560 from me who've actually gone and done protected presence operations 0:32:36.600 --> 0:32:37.520 in the West Bank. 0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:39.200 I know that they're like the people. 0:32:38.960 --> 0:32:42.080 In Massafayata are often asking for foreigners to come and 0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:43.800 do that, and a lot of people will go through 0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:47.320 like Jordan Valley Solidarity or ism or something like that. 0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:51.280 I'm usually one to discourage foreigners from jumping feet first 0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:53.600 into a HoriZone with great intentions and no knowledge of 0:32:53.640 --> 0:32:56.240 the language or everything that's going on. Yeah, but there 0:32:56.240 --> 0:32:59.480 does seem to be a genuine call from amongst the 0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:02.000 pales in community in the West Bank to have people 0:33:02.000 --> 0:33:05.280 who are willing to physically get in between you know, 0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:10.800 Alsinian villages and settlers and the IDF. Yeah, so that 0:33:10.920 --> 0:33:13.520 is a concrete thing you can do. That's a dangerous 0:33:13.560 --> 0:33:15.120 thing to ask somebody to do. 0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:18.720 Yeah, I don't think it's something people should rush into, right, Like, 0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:21.560 we've interviewed people who have been shot. 0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:22.840 Doing yeah exactly. 0:33:22.840 --> 0:33:25.960 A young woman was killed doing that, Yeah, aishunar Agi. 0:33:26.920 --> 0:33:30.040 She was shot yeah, feet away from my friend who 0:33:30.160 --> 0:33:32.320 was just in the West Bank, and he just got 0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:35.760 banned from the entire territory for ninety nine years, And 0:33:35.920 --> 0:33:38.440 I was talking to him about that because I wonder about, like, 0:33:38.520 --> 0:33:40.400 you know, my work, and sometimes I feel like I'm 0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:42.560 not going far enough in my solidarity because I'm doing 0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:45.320 this investigative documentary and I'm not physically putting my body 0:33:45.320 --> 0:33:47.280 on the line. Yeah, sure, but I can still go 0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:50.640 to the country, Like my support for the Palestinians is 0:33:50.680 --> 0:33:53.160 still ongoing. So I think people need to ask themselves, 0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:57.120 do I want to take one drastic measure to like 0:33:57.240 --> 0:34:00.760 show this is my solidarity with alsign in an instant, 0:34:01.160 --> 0:34:04.640 whether it's joining like a flotilla that might get airstrikes, 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:08.200 or you know, setting yourself on fire outside of the Israeli embassy, 0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:11.200 or do I want to like contribute in the ways 0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:13.880 that I can as best I can. I mean, I'm 0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:16.600 a storyteller, right, So I said, I need to find 0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:19.840 a story that I can tell about the Palestinian that 0:34:19.880 --> 0:34:22.279 will humanize them in the eyes of people who are 0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:24.600 not naturally sympathetic. And I think a lot of people 0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:27.480 think that they need to be putting their body on 0:34:27.520 --> 0:34:28.840 the line. Or it's like I talk about this with 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:31.680 disaster relief all the time, Like disaster happens and people 0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:33.360 see you on the TV, they're like, I need to 0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:35.319 be wearing a high viz best and distributing a box 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:39.560 of aid to someone. It's like, no, you probably don't. Actually, 0:34:39.880 --> 0:34:41.759 like the thing that you can best do to help 0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:44.160 people is probably the skill that you've been perfecting in 0:34:44.200 --> 0:34:47.600 your own career as well as like in your own life. Right, 0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:50.319 if you're good at spreadsheets, you can help people get 0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:52.960 access to housing. Yeah, one hundred percent. You know, if 0:34:52.960 --> 0:34:54.799 you're good, if you're good at lifting things, then maybe 0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:56.640 you should be lifting boxes. But like, I have a 0:34:56.640 --> 0:34:59.040 friend who's the Emmy Award winning director of photography, and 0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:02.160 he's like, I have a and I can lift everything's 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:03.640 and like show me where to go? And he was 0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:06.640 hitting me up the entire like first two weeks of 0:35:06.680 --> 0:35:08.800 the LA fires, being like where should I go? And 0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:12.200 I was like, me, you're an Emmy Award winning videography. 0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:16.680 Tell the story of the fires, find the survivors, like, 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:20.240 bring their stories to life and let the world see 0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:22.799 what our community looks like. And he did that and 0:35:22.840 --> 0:35:25.640 it went amazing. Yeah, So, like I think people should 0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:27.480 think about when they want to help. You know, if 0:35:27.520 --> 0:35:31.160 you are a saramicist, or you sow or you're a musician, 0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:34.200 write a song about gods. Like, there's so many ways 0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:37.320 to help that don't involve physically putting yourself in between 0:35:37.440 --> 0:35:40.240 a settler and they're in for and a Palestinian family 0:35:40.280 --> 0:35:41.560 whose language you can't speak. 0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:44.160 Yeah, I totally agree. Like there's and we see that 0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:47.080 with border stuff, right, like everyone wants to do high 0:35:47.120 --> 0:35:49.400 k out to the border and drug water or you know, 0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:52.839 everyone wanted to in Kumba, right, like the other people 0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:54.640 wanted to help us, and people did help us, and 0:35:54.640 --> 0:35:56.839 it was amazing, it was really beautiful. But like people 0:35:56.880 --> 0:35:59.239 were also able to help the skills they had, like 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:02.759 making jewels and selling it or maybe doing a benefit gig. Right, 0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:06.040 there's a long tradition of anarchists benefit gigs, Like it's 0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:08.239 a thing that we do, do a zine, yeah, like 0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:12.160 you're upon concert, you know, yeah, yeah, many many such 0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:17.160 cases like within doing that, there's the intangible benefit of 0:36:17.280 --> 0:36:20.640 showing people that people care about them, like all around 0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:24.640 the world. I remember, you know, just recently I saw 0:36:25.120 --> 0:36:27.560 people from the Karini Nationalities Defense Force, Right, so one 0:36:27.600 --> 0:36:31.480 of the revolutionary organizations in Miamma making a statement about 0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:33.920 solidarity to people of Palestine and to their children, and 0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:37.600 you know that they too have experienced their children being killed, 0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:40.840 they too have experienced these bombing runs and state oppression, 0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:42.960 and that like they see them and they care about them, 0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:45.480 and even in their own time of war. That's like 0:36:45.840 --> 0:36:48.160 the front in Karini State is hot right now that 0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:51.080 they are still thinking of the people of Palestine. I 0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:53.440 saw Palestinian people were very touched by this, right, like 0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:57.279 it does Obviously you can't eat someone's good thoughts, but 0:36:57.440 --> 0:37:00.239 like there are things you can do, like because yeah, 0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:01.880 you can't be down there right now giving people a 0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:04.760 sandwich as much you'd like to, and for some people 0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:07.280 that's either not possible or maybe just not the best 0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:09.400 use of their time. And like, I think it's a 0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:12.520 really good message to everyone's good at something. Do you, like, 0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:13.880 find the thing that you're good at and use it 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:16.239 to help people? I think is really valuable. Is there 0:37:16.280 --> 0:37:19.040 anything else you'd like to share with people before you 0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:19.799 finish up here? 0:37:20.120 --> 0:37:21.320 Yeah, I just think I would. 0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:25.120 This was a dark conversation because I don't really see 0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:28.279 a way out of this humanitarian situation. But I think 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:31.839 there's a degree to which that's been the case from 0:37:31.840 --> 0:37:35.239 the start, Right, The real trick of the imperial thought 0:37:35.280 --> 0:37:38.000 machine is that the pace of oppression outstrips our ability 0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:42.520 to understand it. Yeah, to quote theory twink charisenemic. But 0:37:42.920 --> 0:37:47.720 don't lose hope, right, because the world does care about 0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:50.879 Palestine more than it ever has. Yeah, they feel that 0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:55.319 the people there feel our love, they feel our solidarity, 0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:59.960 and that is not valueless, right, Like, yeah, no human 0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:04.000 is useless. Who lightens the burden of another. I was 0:38:04.080 --> 0:38:06.279 depressed as hell coming back from this recent drop the 0:38:06.280 --> 0:38:08.200 Palace sign, and I went to the mountains and that's 0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:09.560 we met with a bunch of people who were just 0:38:09.600 --> 0:38:13.919 really energetic about like Palestinian solidarity and and really cared 0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:15.840 about it. And it was like, yeah, it was so 0:38:16.000 --> 0:38:17.680 nice to go from that and just be able to 0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:19.480 tell my Palestinian fans like, hey, by the way, we 0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:22.680 just spent an entire week talking about what we can 0:38:22.760 --> 0:38:25.920 do to alleviate to some small degree the suffering that 0:38:25.960 --> 0:38:27.000 your people are going through. 0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:28.080 That matters. 0:38:28.320 --> 0:38:32.239 Yeah, Like every small act, every little thing, right, the 0:38:32.280 --> 0:38:33.800 small deeds of ordinary folk. 0:38:33.800 --> 0:38:35.200 That's what keeps the darkness is bay. 0:38:35.760 --> 0:38:39.000 Yeah, and that's really prescient. Often, like refugees will say 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:41.800 to me, Sientias will say to me. In the last 0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:45.040 six months now, I guess that they think Americans don't 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:47.879 care about them anymore, And that really fucking breaks my heart, 0:38:48.320 --> 0:38:51.000 like more than I can express with words, because I 0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:54.839 care about those people so much, and like it does 0:38:54.880 --> 0:38:57.799 make a difference when they see people doing things, and 0:38:57.840 --> 0:39:00.960 they can be small things, but like I know how 0:39:01.040 --> 0:39:04.600 my set lifts up somebody in talk times, Like yeah, 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:08.000 because I've been with them in pretty dark times. So yeah, 0:39:08.040 --> 0:39:10.520 it does make a difference. And like if that's what 0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:13.000 you can do, then then people shouldn't think as valueless. 0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:15.880 Yeah, and also UNI pressure people, you know, continue to 0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:20.680 make people embarrassed for believing in genocide. Call your congressmen 0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:23.480 and remind them that they are their shills and cowards. 0:39:23.680 --> 0:39:25.480 I think a lot about you know, you mentioned like 0:39:25.600 --> 0:39:28.640 nineteen you mentioned World War two earlier. I mean, if 0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:32.360 we had had TikTok in the age of Dakau and 0:39:32.440 --> 0:39:38.040 Treblinka and Oschwitz, I think about like the American government 0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:41.000 knew about the final solution, We knew that the box 0:39:41.080 --> 0:39:44.880 cars were going to these extermination camps, and we refuse 0:39:44.960 --> 0:39:48.680 to bomb them. Yeah, we focused on military targets. If 0:39:48.680 --> 0:39:50.959 we've been able to live stream you know, some from 0:39:50.960 --> 0:39:54.399 inside Auschwitz, and we were also able because of pro 0:39:54.400 --> 0:39:57.200 public or whatever, to find out that FDR was choosing 0:39:57.280 --> 0:40:01.880 not to bomb the concentration camps, there would have been outrage. 0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:03.640 There would have been a huge amount of outrage I 0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:06.759 think in the American population as there is in Gaza. 0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:09.400 And that's an important thing. It's something we have access 0:40:09.440 --> 0:40:13.000 to now we can put that external pressure onto people 0:40:13.239 --> 0:40:18.120 and make them uncomfortable. That's what brought down South African apartheid. 0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:21.360 Like it's the it's the BCGS pulling out of the 0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:25.160 Gaza Humanitarians Fund. Yeah, basically, British companies just got so 0:40:25.320 --> 0:40:29.280 embarrassed to work with South Africa that they just eventually stopped. 0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:30.520 And that's what brought. 0:40:30.320 --> 0:40:33.239 Down, right, Yeah, because people wouldn't shut the fuck up 0:40:33.280 --> 0:40:36.200 about it, right, They wouldn't let them do other stuff 0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:38.919 and be like we're not talking about that today. And 0:40:39.000 --> 0:40:42.399 like people in the case of South Africa wouldn't play 0:40:42.400 --> 0:40:46.000 sports with South Africa until it fucking stopped doing its apartheid. Right, 0:40:46.120 --> 0:40:48.960 Like I was gonna say it was global like a boycott, 0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:51.320 It wasn't quite global. It's Rael was not boycotting apartheid 0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:56.399 South Africa. But yeah, that stuff does make a difference. Charles, 0:40:56.440 --> 0:40:58.600 when's your documentary coming out? Where could people find it? 0:40:58.800 --> 0:40:59.759 What can they view it on? 0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:03.879 I'm still in the editing phace, so I think give 0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:05.560 me two months and I will have a better idea 0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:08.360 of when it's coming out. I'm hoping like before Autumn 0:41:08.480 --> 0:41:12.400 dam twenty twenty five. It is a time Emily piece, right, 0:41:12.440 --> 0:41:16.000 it has some some relevance that's time sensitive. But you 0:41:16.040 --> 0:41:18.480 can follow it on on Instagram. It's just at the 0:41:18.480 --> 0:41:21.160 war on Unra you n RWA. 0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:24.520 Yeah, and my personal account also posts a lot about it. 0:41:24.520 --> 0:41:28.000 That's Charles McBride with a y. Yeah, and it's the 0:41:28.040 --> 0:41:30.520 same on substack TikTok YouTube. 0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:32.359 Yeah, like child said, you don't have to be there 0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:34.360 getting an m full pointed at you to make a difference, 0:41:34.560 --> 0:41:36.839 and so like, yeah, I would encourage people to do 0:41:37.000 --> 0:41:39.440 the little things to you. They're not that's small actually, 0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:44.040 but just yeah, the things that aren't going to Palestine necessarily. 0:41:43.840 --> 0:41:47.280 Absolutely, Yeah, and like take heart, you know, don't despair. 0:41:47.640 --> 0:42:11.920 Yeah, yeah, find some joy, welcome to it could happen 0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:15.640 here A podcast about it happening here, which, if you 0:42:15.760 --> 0:42:19.520 are paying attention to the news today is Los Angeles, 0:42:20.120 --> 0:42:22.919 not just LA but largely LA right now, which over 0:42:22.960 --> 0:42:25.680 the course of the last couple of days while we 0:42:25.680 --> 0:42:29.279 were off for the weekend, has broken out into. 0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:34.399 A series of protests and cop riots that are kind 0:42:34.440 --> 0:42:39.200 of consuming national news. The federal government has activated the 0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:43.480 California National Guard and asserted federal control over them. Governor 0:42:43.560 --> 0:42:47.520 Newsom is kind of pushing back against that, although not 0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:50.040 in a way that I am convinced or I've seen 0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:54.000 any evidence of matters at this point. The United States Marines, 0:42:54.280 --> 0:42:56.720 a group of I think about five hundred from Camp Pendleton, 0:42:56.760 --> 0:43:00.440 which is down near San Diego, have been activated as well, 0:43:00.600 --> 0:43:03.799 which is a probable violation of pose coma tadas, so 0:43:03.800 --> 0:43:05.399 that was kind of unclear to me the extent which 0:43:05.440 --> 0:43:08.680 they're in theater at this point. Largely, all of these 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:14.160 actions have been ineffective in making the protests go away 0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:17.080 at this point. What sparked them was a series of 0:43:17.120 --> 0:43:20.920 ice raids that took about two thousand people into custody 0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:24.719 and brought a bunch of Los Angelinos out in Paramount, 0:43:24.760 --> 0:43:29.320 California who were met by the police, the LAPD providing 0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:34.640 crowd control to Homeland Security HSI agents. Yeah, and that's 0:43:34.640 --> 0:43:36.600 the gist of what went down. Things have just kind 0:43:36.600 --> 0:43:39.840 of escalated from there. Yesterday probably four to six thousand 0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:42.279 people in the street as opposed to five hundred or 0:43:42.360 --> 0:43:45.160 so the day before. So things have continued to escalate 0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:50.399 and the LAPD and their police have had no real 0:43:50.480 --> 0:43:54.560 luck in containing the demonstrations. We'll see how long that 0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:57.799 situation lasts. But yeah, that's where we are right at 0:43:57.840 --> 0:44:00.760 this second. More or less, things are continuing evolve today, 0:44:01.280 --> 0:44:03.960 will have evolved since Yeah. 0:44:04.200 --> 0:44:06.239 Yeah, by the way, we're recording this on Monday, this 0:44:06.280 --> 0:44:09.640 will probably be coming out like Monday night, Tuesday morning. Yeah, 0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:11.960 so who fucking knows what will have happened by then. 0:44:12.320 --> 0:44:16.040 This is like about one pm Pacific time when we're 0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:19.560 recording this. I want to start also by going back 0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:22.560 to that National Guard deployment, because that national the federalized 0:44:22.640 --> 0:44:26.640 National Guard deployment is hideously illegal. Oh yeah, like unbelievably illegal. 0:44:26.800 --> 0:44:30.600 I cannot emphasize enough. This is like constitution shatteringly illegal. Yeah, 0:44:30.640 --> 0:44:32.440 and the way this is being reported in the media 0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:35.799 is fucking hideous. They are just straight up lying about it. 0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:40.960 So okay, So Trump has not declared the Insurrection Act yet, right. 0:44:41.160 --> 0:44:46.600 No, they activated a directive that Trump signed cited ten 0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:51.200 USC one two four six, which is a specific provision 0:44:51.200 --> 0:44:54.200 within Title ten if the US Code on Armed Services. 0:44:54.680 --> 0:44:57.520 That provision allows, or part of that provision allows for 0:44:57.840 --> 0:45:01.480 the federal government to deploy National Guard forces quote, if 0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:03.960 there is a rebellion or danger of a rebellion against 0:45:04.000 --> 0:45:06.800 the authority of the government of the United States. So basically, 0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:09.600 the claim being made by the administration here was that 0:45:09.640 --> 0:45:12.400 the federalization of the California Guard was justified by the 0:45:12.440 --> 0:45:15.600 fact that the people of Los Angeles, which at the 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:18.359 point this was done was somewhere less than a thousand. 0:45:18.120 --> 0:45:20.680 Of them five hundred people, Yeah. 0:45:20.280 --> 0:45:24.080 And were an open rebellion because they had yelled at 0:45:24.120 --> 0:45:27.000 a bunch of ice officers for a while. That was 0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:28.040 the situation. 0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:28.520 Yeah. 0:45:28.560 --> 0:45:32.120 Well, and also it's worth noting too, even if there 0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:36.160 was a rebellion, which there isn't. He also can't use 0:45:36.200 --> 0:45:39.920 that section because it's in coordination with the governor. You 0:45:39.920 --> 0:45:42.080 could only do what if the governor is working with you, 0:45:42.400 --> 0:45:45.919 and the governor, like Newsome, is being a real piece 0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:47.440 of shit. About this for again, like. 0:45:47.480 --> 0:45:50.480 The president of the LAPD has been Yeah. 0:45:50.280 --> 0:45:51.800 But it's like he's been sitting the LPD up, but 0:45:51.840 --> 0:45:54.560 he hasn't given permission for the federal government to use 0:45:54.640 --> 0:45:57.360 the California National Guard. They're just doing it, right, This 0:45:57.520 --> 0:46:01.600 is like they've just stolen a state national Guard. And 0:46:01.960 --> 0:46:04.960 Neustroom's response has been, because he fucking hates protesters so much, 0:46:04.960 --> 0:46:08.239 has been like, oh this is bad, Am I gonna 0:46:08.320 --> 0:46:11.440 like do anything about the fact that, like, again, every 0:46:11.480 --> 0:46:13.880 single law about how the National Guard is supposed to 0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:15.440 be used, it's just been torn the fuck up. 0:46:15.480 --> 0:46:15.719 Yeah. 0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:19.239 No, like fucking MPR and like a bunch of the 0:46:19.280 --> 0:46:22.399 Maintiam media reporting about this has just been saying that, oh, well, 0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:24.720 he used this provision and it's like, no, he didn't. 0:46:25.239 --> 0:46:29.319 Like he did not he explicitly every single part of 0:46:29.400 --> 0:46:31.719 the thing that lets you use this provision, none of 0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:34.160 the conditions have been fulfilled, which means he's not using it. 0:46:34.520 --> 0:46:36.200 He's just saying shit and doing it. 0:46:36.600 --> 0:46:37.839 Yeah, that's exactly right. 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:39.920 And the activation of the US Marines is based on 0:46:40.000 --> 0:46:44.040 like heg Seth posted a tweet being like I've got 0:46:44.080 --> 0:46:47.880 marines ready in Camp Pendleton, which like there's absolutely no 0:46:48.000 --> 0:46:51.680 constitutional justification for no, especially since the National Guard had 0:46:51.719 --> 0:46:55.719 just been put in for deploying active duty US Marines 0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:59.319 into this situation. Absolutely not, it's all super like for 0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:01.800 one thing, the the situation that they're in right now 0:47:01.920 --> 0:47:03.560 in terms of like what we've seen from the National 0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:07.960 Guard yesterday was like they're not very effective at this, right. 0:47:08.000 --> 0:47:11.840 They fairly quickly after being deployed started using, you know, 0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:15.239 firing impact munitions at the crowd, attacking the crowd in 0:47:15.239 --> 0:47:16.839 the same way that the LAPD had done. 0:47:16.920 --> 0:47:17.120 Nothing. 0:47:17.200 --> 0:47:20.319 That was like, I would say, an escalation beyond how 0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:23.000 the fucking cops were active. 0:47:23.160 --> 0:47:23.399 Right. 0:47:23.520 --> 0:47:27.959 But National Guard is bad at handling these kinds of things, right. 0:47:28.120 --> 0:47:31.360 Their force organization is not meant to be able to 0:47:31.360 --> 0:47:33.080 be split up into small enough units the way the 0:47:33.080 --> 0:47:36.480 cops are in enough areas, Like they're just not meant 0:47:36.560 --> 0:47:37.560 for this sort of thing. 0:47:37.640 --> 0:47:39.120 It's not how they're. 0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:41.879 Meant to be deployed to counteract protests, so you wind 0:47:42.000 --> 0:47:44.000 up just kind of keeping them in this big blob 0:47:44.719 --> 0:47:47.680 of guys who you don't have good Like they're sleeping 0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:50.520 on floors in government buildings right now. 0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:51.880 Because the Quartering. 0:47:51.520 --> 0:47:54.839 Act exists, which is amazing, and because there's not much 0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:57.839 in the way of organization behind deploying them, and they 0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.920 don't know they're not I mean neither the police generally 0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:04.360 well trained with their impact munitions, but these guys certainly aren't. 0:48:04.400 --> 0:48:06.799 And they freak out at the drop of a hat 0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:10.080 like they're like worse at it than the LAPD, and 0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:11.200 the LAPD. 0:48:10.920 --> 0:48:13.839 Is, you know, not good at it, they're just good 0:48:13.840 --> 0:48:14.600 at hurting people. 0:48:14.680 --> 0:48:16.959 So you've just kind of got this large, brittle group 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:19.800 of guys who you can plunk down in an area 0:48:20.400 --> 0:48:24.880 while protesters continue to gather in groups all around the city. 0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:28.520 And the more stories of shit like a blob of 0:48:28.719 --> 0:48:31.839 National guardsmen fucking up protesters you get, the more people 0:48:31.880 --> 0:48:34.840 are coming out and the less controllable the situation becomes. 0:48:35.200 --> 0:48:37.560 And it seems like we're seeing the very beginning stages 0:48:37.600 --> 0:48:41.080 of people actually learning tactical lessons from twenty twenty and 0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:43.960 twenty twenty four with the poal sign encampments. Yeah, which 0:48:44.000 --> 0:48:46.400 is like, yeah, like, if you concentrate all of your 0:48:46.400 --> 0:48:49.279 people in one spot, police departments are very very good 0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:51.239 at massing the whole bunch of people and rolling you over. 0:48:51.640 --> 0:48:54.000 Ian We've known this since twenty twenty. If you are 0:48:54.080 --> 0:48:55.680 at a whole bunch of different spots at the same time, 0:48:55.719 --> 0:48:58.279 they're terrible at responding to that. And that's kind of 0:48:58.320 --> 0:49:00.560 what's been happening. Yeah, there's been a unch are protests 0:49:00.560 --> 0:49:04.160 popping up in different places. It's been very effective at 0:49:04.160 --> 0:49:08.040 sort of like preventing that kind of like one giant 0:49:08.239 --> 0:49:11.480 sweep mobilizations that were like destroying the student encampments. 0:49:12.120 --> 0:49:16.640 Yeah, and I'm looking at based on reporting from CBS News, 0:49:16.640 --> 0:49:19.400 about seven hundred US Marines have been activated from the 0:49:19.400 --> 0:49:23.440 twenty nine Palms base near San Diego, which is, per 0:49:23.520 --> 0:49:26.520 Jim Laporta, who's a defense reporter, widely considered to be 0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:28.320 one of the worst bases to be stationed at in 0:49:28.360 --> 0:49:32.359 the entire military. Are being deployed to Los Angeles right now. 0:49:32.400 --> 0:49:33.520 So that's just great. 0:49:33.719 --> 0:49:36.520 Yeah. Someone asked Trump what would it take for him 0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:39.719 to use to authorize the deployment of the US military 0:49:40.560 --> 0:49:43.279 on American soil, and he said, that's just that's up 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:45.120 to me, which is not how any of this works. Yeah, 0:49:45.440 --> 0:49:48.040 Like that's just pure military dictatorship stuff. If Trump is 0:49:48.080 --> 0:49:50.640 just able to like use the military just do whatever 0:49:50.640 --> 0:49:53.239 the fuck he wants. That is just that is the 0:49:53.280 --> 0:49:57.560 constitution gone, That is the pretense of democracy gone. It 0:49:57.719 --> 0:50:01.160 is real bad now. It hasn't happened yet, but there 0:50:01.160 --> 0:50:04.920 has been a bunch of extremely alarming other shit that's happened. 0:50:05.680 --> 0:50:10.279 So the cops arrested the president of California SEIU, which 0:50:10.320 --> 0:50:13.280 is the service workers union in California, very very large union. 0:50:14.160 --> 0:50:17.560 Not a super billetant one. 0:50:17.640 --> 0:50:20.120 No, And David Huerta isn't who you'd call like a 0:50:20.160 --> 0:50:21.960 particularly militant leftist. 0:50:22.080 --> 0:50:24.399 No, he's just like a he's just like a kind 0:50:24.440 --> 0:50:26.759 of like a Democratic Party labor guy. And they just 0:50:26.800 --> 0:50:28.840 like arrested him outside of outside of one of the 0:50:29.120 --> 0:50:30.640 initial protests where he. 0:50:30.680 --> 0:50:32.120 Was injured him quite badly too. 0:50:32.360 --> 0:50:34.440 Yeah, yeah, like beat the shit out of him. And 0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:38.320 then he's still being held in in a federal detention building. 0:50:38.320 --> 0:50:41.960 They're they're they're charging him with with federal felony conspiracy 0:50:42.000 --> 0:50:44.920 to impede an officer. And again this is this is 0:50:44.920 --> 0:50:46.520 the this is the head of like one of the 0:50:46.600 --> 0:50:48.120 largest unions of California. 0:50:48.440 --> 0:50:50.759 No, and they're they're justifying it in part based on 0:50:50.800 --> 0:50:53.880 the charging documents because they saw him texting on his 0:50:53.960 --> 0:50:56.600 phone outside and assumed he was texting to like a 0:50:56.640 --> 0:50:57.960 protester to give them more. 0:50:57.880 --> 0:51:00.719 Yes, right, Like it's like fucking cortoon cloud. But like 0:51:00.760 --> 0:51:03.360 the actual effect of this again is that they have 0:51:03.719 --> 0:51:05.960 like one of the they have like the president of 0:51:05.960 --> 0:51:08.560 one of the largest unions in the state, like yes, 0:51:08.719 --> 0:51:11.840 in a federal detention building. So, I mean there's obviously 0:51:11.880 --> 0:51:14.120 been like unions are pissed about it. There hasn't been 0:51:14.120 --> 0:51:16.319 any kind of large scomobilization from them yet. But if 0:51:16.320 --> 0:51:18.360 there was one possible thing you could do to actually 0:51:18.400 --> 0:51:21.799 get Seiu outfits ass and like show up to shit, 0:51:21.880 --> 0:51:25.440 it's this. We don't know exactly what's going to happen. 0:51:25.680 --> 0:51:27.600 The reporting that I've seen so far has suggested that 0:51:27.600 --> 0:51:30.760 there is actually a kind of heartening degree of cross 0:51:30.840 --> 0:51:34.400 union support for like, holy shit, the Feds like just 0:51:34.520 --> 0:51:37.000 grabbing the president of a union is in fact bad. 0:51:37.960 --> 0:51:40.799 We're gonna have to see exactly how that plays out. 0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:44.160 But like he's still fucking in there. Maxine Walters like 0:51:44.320 --> 0:51:46.400 tried to enter the facility to check on him. This 0:51:46.400 --> 0:51:48.160 has happened with a bunch of different congress people who 0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:50.440 have tried to enter this one in LA and a 0:51:50.480 --> 0:51:52.760 couple of other ttention facilities. They are all being denied, 0:51:52.880 --> 0:51:54.560 which is unhinged. 0:51:54.800 --> 0:51:57.960 Yeah, especially since they have oversight over facilities like this. 0:51:58.520 --> 0:51:58.880 Yeah. 0:51:59.360 --> 0:52:01.560 Other news for from today that's just come out in 0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:05.280 the last less than a day, the government has deployed 0:52:05.520 --> 0:52:08.279 MQ nine reapers I think at least two of them 0:52:08.360 --> 0:52:11.840 over Los Angeles. These are the drones that are that 0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:15.120 we were using overseas to shoot hell fire missiles of people. 0:52:15.120 --> 0:52:16.560 That's not what they're being used for here. They're being 0:52:16.600 --> 0:52:17.480 used for surveillance. 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:20.239 The last time this was done was in Minneapolis in 0:52:20.280 --> 0:52:21.279 twenty twenty. 0:52:21.640 --> 0:52:22.600 Outside of their use. 0:52:22.520 --> 0:52:26.200 For surveillance over the border, but there's MQ nine's over 0:52:26.520 --> 0:52:30.560 an American city surveilling protesters. Speaking of that, there's also 0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:34.200 just been like the threat of surveillance being used against protesters. 0:52:34.280 --> 0:52:38.399 Kind of The most chilling example from yesterday was an 0:52:38.520 --> 0:52:42.640 LAPD helicopter flying low over a crowd, shining a spotlight 0:52:42.719 --> 0:52:45.640 on them and saying like I've seen, we can see 0:52:45.680 --> 0:52:46.120 all of you. 0:52:46.719 --> 0:52:47.439 We're going to come. 0:52:47.480 --> 0:52:50.160 I'm going to come to your houses later, like you're 0:52:50.160 --> 0:52:52.480 all on camera and I'm cut, like specifically I'm going 0:52:52.520 --> 0:52:53.960 to cut. We're coming to your houses. 0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:56.600 Later, Yeah, it's police state shit. Like, yeah, it's police 0:52:56.600 --> 0:52:57.000 state shit. 0:52:57.160 --> 0:52:59.800 Now do I believe that they actually have the ability 0:52:59.840 --> 0:53:03.160 to No, they don't actually, but yeah. 0:53:02.840 --> 0:53:04.640 That said, like where if you're going to one of 0:53:04.640 --> 0:53:08.440 these protests, we're a fucking mask, yes, like I don't know, 0:53:08.680 --> 0:53:12.480 like both for COVID, but like also Jesus fucking Christ, 0:53:12.840 --> 0:53:17.960 like their flag petator truts over these protests, like wear masks. 0:53:19.880 --> 0:53:22.680 Good lord, do you know what else wants you to 0:53:22.680 --> 0:53:23.400 buy masks? 0:53:23.560 --> 0:53:27.040 Yeah, the products and services that support this podcast perhaps, 0:53:36.760 --> 0:53:38.120 and we're. 0:53:40.800 --> 0:53:41.000 Yeah. 0:53:41.120 --> 0:53:43.680 So I also want to talk a bit about the 0:53:43.719 --> 0:53:46.640 specific conditions that caused all of this stuff, because I 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:50.360 think the reporting on it has been really bad. So 0:53:50.840 --> 0:53:54.360 there were two thousand arrests from ICE on Tuesday. They 0:53:54.520 --> 0:53:56.399 rested two thousand people on Wednesday. I think these are 0:53:56.440 --> 0:53:59.720 like national numbers, the numbers like very specifically in LA's 0:53:59.719 --> 0:54:03.520 are these several hundred people have been being held in 0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:07.200 just horrifying conditions. You know, some of them are being 0:54:07.200 --> 0:54:09.000 held in federal attention centers, but they're also just being 0:54:09.000 --> 0:54:11.080 held in like the basements of these fucking buildings because 0:54:11.080 --> 0:54:13.799 there's not enough room to hold this many people. You know, 0:54:13.840 --> 0:54:15.959 I mean, even the conditions and the regular attention center 0:54:15.960 --> 0:54:18.640 are terrible. But like the immigration lawyers who people were 0:54:18.640 --> 0:54:20.920 able to reach and talk to, are talking about hundreds 0:54:20.920 --> 0:54:24.520 of people in rooms designed for thirty. There's no cots, 0:54:24.800 --> 0:54:27.480 They're sleeping on the ground. Sickness is spreading, there's not 0:54:27.560 --> 0:54:32.319 enough food or water. Conditions are fucking horrifying. A lot 0:54:32.360 --> 0:54:34.160 of the people who are in there, you know, the 0:54:34.400 --> 0:54:35.759 ones that we've been able to get any kind of 0:54:35.800 --> 0:54:38.280 contact with from their lawyers. A lot of these people 0:54:38.560 --> 0:54:41.000 cannot be deported because there are people who have been 0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:44.600 granted stay of deportation by the US government, which means 0:54:44.640 --> 0:54:47.960 they cannot be deported. But I said, just fucking kidnapped them. Anyways. 0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:51.080 There's videos you can see from the protesters outside the 0:54:51.120 --> 0:54:53.520 buildings will and there's something I remember from Occupy Ice 0:54:54.400 --> 0:54:58.080 in twenty eighteen that's just fucking harrowing, is that, like 0:54:58.600 --> 0:55:01.319 when you're outside these buildings sometimes you can hear the 0:55:01.400 --> 0:55:06.359 people inside shouting, and it's fucking harrowing. And with these ones, 0:55:06.400 --> 0:55:08.200 there's a bunch of videos if you can see that 0:55:08.239 --> 0:55:10.800 the people inside the buildings are trying to like shine 0:55:10.880 --> 0:55:13.840 lights out of windows so that people know that they're inside. 0:55:14.640 --> 0:55:18.279 It's fucking horrifying, And I think just how bad this is, 0:55:18.320 --> 0:55:19.960 Like how bad it was that like all of these 0:55:19.960 --> 0:55:23.319 fucking people in their fucking tanks just rolled up and 0:55:23.360 --> 0:55:26.680 started kidnapping people has just kind of been lost in 0:55:26.719 --> 0:55:29.600 all of this discourse about the protest. It is like, no, 0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:31.640 this is what was happening, Like this is straight up 0:55:31.719 --> 0:55:34.080 soldiers are just taking people on the night, Like that's 0:55:34.080 --> 0:55:36.720 what this is, you know, And this has been happening 0:55:36.840 --> 0:55:40.040 all over. There was also a huge sort of protests 0:55:40.200 --> 0:55:43.480 have started at this home depot where okay, so this 0:55:43.600 --> 0:55:45.360 is where this is where we would get into the 0:55:45.480 --> 0:55:48.279 point where like it's kind of difficult to see what's 0:55:48.320 --> 0:55:51.319 going on. Ice claims that they were just staging a 0:55:51.360 --> 0:55:53.799 bunch of people. The private whole ind Security said to 0:55:53.800 --> 0:55:56.520 the BBC that there was no raid on this home 0:55:56.520 --> 0:55:59.720 depot planned and that they were just staging there. I 0:55:59.760 --> 0:56:02.280 don't don't believe that, because these people live, were a living. 0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:04.040 It is their job. They are police. 0:56:04.440 --> 0:56:06.719 It is their job as a cop to lie to you. 0:56:06.800 --> 0:56:09.080 It is a constitutionally protected thing that they have according 0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:13.040 to the Supreme Court, which is absolutely ridiculous, but I 0:56:13.080 --> 0:56:15.520 am pretty sure they're lying about that. But regardless, there's 0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:17.600 you know, like their approtest started off and then like 0:56:18.280 --> 0:56:21.360 the cops just started tear gassing the people who were protesting. Yep, 0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:25.040 this massive rage at a home depot. 0:56:25.480 --> 0:56:29.040 Now there was another kind of noteworthy event is when 0:56:29.160 --> 0:56:32.879 ICE showed up in force they got There were kind 0:56:32.880 --> 0:56:37.200 of two different actions. There was one down at a 0:56:37.239 --> 0:56:41.000 federal building where people attacked in dissembled barricades at the 0:56:41.040 --> 0:56:44.279 same time as people showed up to go after the 0:56:44.280 --> 0:56:49.600 ICE caravan. Ice officers were pelted in their vehicles with 0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:52.120 a number of objects. Yeah, and again this is the 0:56:52.160 --> 0:56:54.440 kind of thing that makes it a lot more difficult. 0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:57.560 I mean that just appears operational operationally to be true 0:56:57.600 --> 0:57:00.400 for them to crack down when they're expecting, you know, 0:57:01.239 --> 0:57:03.440 action in one direction and it comes in multiple at 0:57:03.480 --> 0:57:06.160 the same time. There was another instance earlier in the 0:57:06.160 --> 0:57:09.400 protest where ICE officers were surrounded by a crowd and 0:57:09.440 --> 0:57:12.280 cut off for about eight hours while the LAPD refused 0:57:12.280 --> 0:57:15.120 to respond to them, and they eventually had to land 0:57:15.160 --> 0:57:17.720 a black Hawk on the street in order to resupply 0:57:17.760 --> 0:57:20.120 because they were out of water and I think running 0:57:20.120 --> 0:57:21.160 low on munitions. 0:57:21.560 --> 0:57:22.960 Which they then used with. 0:57:23.040 --> 0:57:27.360 Reckless abandon So yeah, there's also as I'm looking right now, 0:57:27.440 --> 0:57:30.360 just as about two hours ago, a US Marine Age 0:57:30.440 --> 0:57:34.400 one Z viper attack helicopter was filmed flying low over 0:57:34.440 --> 0:57:37.960 Los Angeles. So it looks like we've got active duty 0:57:38.080 --> 0:57:41.680 US Marine Corps forces in the city. Unclear if they're 0:57:41.680 --> 0:57:43.760 directly engaging with anyone. I haven't really heard of a 0:57:43.760 --> 0:57:45.680 lot of activity today, but yeah. 0:57:46.320 --> 0:57:51.200 Yeah, My guess is things will intensify, you know, as 0:57:51.240 --> 0:57:53.160 the day goes on and as we sort of roll 0:57:53.200 --> 0:57:55.800 into night, because how some people sort of start getting 0:57:55.840 --> 0:57:57.760 off work and when temperatures start coming down a bit. 0:57:58.320 --> 0:58:01.360 That's the open question right as to like what's going 0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:04.680 to happen. The last couple of days we saw numbers escalate, 0:58:05.200 --> 0:58:08.360 but now it's Monday, people have work and there's more true. 0:58:08.400 --> 0:58:10.320 It's like, yeah, it's not clear to me that that's 0:58:10.360 --> 0:58:12.360 going to happen, that this is going to be like 0:58:12.400 --> 0:58:14.840 a yeah, we'll see. I'm seeing a lot of early 0:58:14.880 --> 0:58:17.400 comparisons to twenty twenty, and it's not clear to me 0:58:17.440 --> 0:58:19.000 that that's going to happen. One thing to note is 0:58:19.000 --> 0:58:21.320 that kind of at the top so far we've had 0:58:21.320 --> 0:58:24.520 four to six thousand people out in the street in Layah, 0:58:24.880 --> 0:58:27.280 which is not you know, compared to twenty twenty numbers. 0:58:27.320 --> 0:58:29.840 And while we've seen some sympathy demonstrations, I mean here 0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:31.720 in Portland, I don't think it got larger than forty 0:58:31.840 --> 0:58:34.920 or so people. There was another you know somewhere less 0:58:34.960 --> 0:58:38.280 than one hundred people in San Francisco that some a 0:58:38.400 --> 0:58:39.520 good chunk of them got. 0:58:39.400 --> 0:58:44.640 Kettled the other day. But not mass demonstrations yet in 0:58:44.680 --> 0:58:45.360 other cities. 0:58:46.160 --> 0:58:48.840 Yeah, yeah, it hasn't. It hasn't like really kicked off 0:58:49.000 --> 0:58:52.120 everywhere yet. And it's also interesting because like these protests 0:58:52.120 --> 0:58:53.720 are kind of coming off of the back of a 0:58:53.800 --> 0:58:58.040 couple of like scattered things. We talked about this on 0:58:58.680 --> 0:59:02.000 executive Disorder, but there were a there's a very big 0:59:02.040 --> 0:59:06.080 confrontation in Minneapolis last week. There's another one in Chicago 0:59:06.120 --> 0:59:10.320 where they like attacked a bunch of Chicago aldermen, which 0:59:10.400 --> 0:59:13.040 was a time. The way it's been going is like 0:59:13.080 --> 0:59:15.360 you get a giant raid and it pisses people off 0:59:15.360 --> 0:59:17.480 and there's a flare up, and the flare ups have 0:59:17.520 --> 0:59:20.280 been getting larger, but it hasn't been like a sustained thing. 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:25.240 It's largely been reactive to these kind of large raids, 0:59:26.280 --> 0:59:28.520 and you know that's not necessarily like the recipe for 0:59:28.560 --> 0:59:33.600 a sustained thing. However, the term administration, their target goal 0:59:33.680 --> 0:59:35.880 for the number of arrests a day is three thousand, 0:59:36.800 --> 0:59:40.320 so like they're trying to intensify the number of rags 0:59:40.360 --> 0:59:44.240 they're doing and how sort of like aggressive and like 0:59:44.360 --> 0:59:47.600 militant they are. And I think that might be a 0:59:47.640 --> 0:59:49.800 thing that causes this to accelerate as we go, as 0:59:49.840 --> 0:59:52.640 we head into like next weekend, because if they're still 0:59:52.680 --> 0:59:55.720 doing this, right, like if feds are if suddenly like 0:59:55.720 --> 0:59:58.560 like hundreds of FEDS are in Chicago again and they're 0:59:58.600 --> 1:00:02.200 like grabbing people out of like Logan Square, right, or 1:00:02.560 --> 1:00:04.720 you know, they're they're trying they're doing this in like 1:00:04.880 --> 1:00:07.440 in New York, they're doing this in like other places. 1:00:07.480 --> 1:00:12.000 I think it could start to escalate, but right now 1:00:12.000 --> 1:00:13.800 it's still very much unclear. 1:00:14.320 --> 1:00:16.720 Yeah, I mean, and that's where I stand to on 1:00:16.760 --> 1:00:19.880 this is like I don't actually know what's going to 1:00:19.960 --> 1:00:23.400 happen with this demonstration, but I think that, you know, 1:00:23.480 --> 1:00:27.880 one possibility is certainly that this continues to escalate and 1:00:27.880 --> 1:00:30.000 that you just get more and more people out consistently 1:00:30.360 --> 1:00:32.439 the others that it kind of peters out from this point. 1:00:32.920 --> 1:00:36.240 If it continues to escalate, then the state is or 1:00:36.240 --> 1:00:39.760 the FEDS are in a situation where they have committed 1:00:39.800 --> 1:00:43.320 to continuing the escalation chain and there's not much for 1:00:43.360 --> 1:00:46.320 them to go once they've got active duty soldiers in 1:00:46.360 --> 1:00:49.920 the streets, but just actually shooting at people with live rounds, 1:00:50.800 --> 1:00:54.200 assuming that they can't stop the demonstrations with a show 1:00:54.200 --> 1:00:58.560 of force, and likewise, there's not much else for people 1:00:58.640 --> 1:01:01.439 to do but either back down and stop coming out, 1:01:01.960 --> 1:01:04.800 at which point the administration will take a victory lap 1:01:04.880 --> 1:01:06.840 and say that like, look, this works, and this will 1:01:06.880 --> 1:01:09.880 become their standard go to whenever a city erupts is 1:01:10.400 --> 1:01:15.520 immediately nationalize the state National Guard, bring out life troops. Right, 1:01:15.600 --> 1:01:18.000 that's what will happen everywhere. That's going to become the 1:01:18.040 --> 1:01:23.400 new norm. Or people will continue escalating and yeah, Like 1:01:23.640 --> 1:01:26.200 in that case, the situation is, like do people escalate 1:01:26.680 --> 1:01:29.240 to deploying more force. Do they have that real option 1:01:29.560 --> 1:01:34.040 right or does the kind of stress of responding with 1:01:34.160 --> 1:01:37.320 that sort of force largely with soldiers that this is 1:01:37.360 --> 1:01:40.000 not the primary thing they signed up to do. Do 1:01:40.080 --> 1:01:42.720 they start like stop obeying orders. You know, these are 1:01:42.720 --> 1:01:46.720 the kind of things that we would then be looking 1:01:46.760 --> 1:01:49.760 at to see, right, Like that's kind of where there's 1:01:49.800 --> 1:01:51.840 a couple of different places it can go from here. 1:01:52.240 --> 1:01:52.440 You know. 1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:56.800 Another possibility is that, like if we see an instance 1:01:56.800 --> 1:01:59.320 of like, okay, in order to try and crack down 1:01:59.320 --> 1:02:01.960 on this, they authorize the use of deadly force against 1:02:01.960 --> 1:02:05.880 a chunk of demonstrators and people get killed, then do 1:02:06.040 --> 1:02:09.400 you see this kind of thing erupt in cities all 1:02:09.400 --> 1:02:11.479 around the country like we saw in twenty twenty, right, 1:02:12.080 --> 1:02:15.360 in which case, again things get very because there's not 1:02:15.800 --> 1:02:19.480 there's not a lot of the US army. Really, there 1:02:19.480 --> 1:02:22.640 are a lot of cops, but compared to the US population, 1:02:22.760 --> 1:02:26.240 there's not even that any cops, right, and widespread enough 1:02:26.600 --> 1:02:29.000 discent like this, you know what would force some very 1:02:29.000 --> 1:02:34.200 difficult decisions from the federal government and from the administration, right, 1:02:34.240 --> 1:02:36.959 And that's kind of our best case scenario is that 1:02:37.040 --> 1:02:39.720 you get enough people out in enough cities that like 1:02:39.800 --> 1:02:43.920 it is just crashing the US economy, right, and there's 1:02:44.000 --> 1:02:49.040 no real way to lock down the unrest, and you 1:02:49.080 --> 1:02:53.720 start getting National Guard refusing to respond to deployment orders 1:02:54.280 --> 1:02:57.880 as well as active duty soldiers like refusing to respond 1:02:57.960 --> 1:03:00.240 right like these are. That's the kind of thing we're 1:03:00.280 --> 1:03:02.640 looking at in terms of like a potential best case 1:03:02.640 --> 1:03:06.120 scenario here. I don't know where things are going to head. 1:03:06.400 --> 1:03:09.600 I think maybe a likelier possibility is not that we 1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:14.440 hit that that situation right now, but that we start 1:03:14.480 --> 1:03:17.680 to see, like as this kind of peters out, the 1:03:17.720 --> 1:03:21.680 administration puts out a victory lap, and then we start 1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:26.040 to see you demonstrations responding in other cities, and maybe 1:03:26.240 --> 1:03:28.840 there's kind of a slower tempo of escalation here. 1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:30.480 But I don't know. 1:03:31.080 --> 1:03:33.240 I want to say that my hope is that they 1:03:33.280 --> 1:03:35.600 overplayed their hands here, but I just don't know that 1:03:35.600 --> 1:03:40.960 that's clear, in part because we haven't seen the scale 1:03:41.000 --> 1:03:45.240 of mobilization by people that is clearly going to be 1:03:45.280 --> 1:03:46.880 impossible for them to respond to. 1:03:47.280 --> 1:03:47.480 Right. 1:03:48.160 --> 1:03:50.200 I am still expecting that we're going to get a 1:03:50.800 --> 1:03:56.040 really large escalating series approachest this summer. It's June that 1:03:56.080 --> 1:03:58.760 I am. It is June ninth as we're recording this, 1:03:59.000 --> 1:04:03.160 right is going to be a long, hot summer. Right, 1:04:03.240 --> 1:04:05.360 regardless of whether this is the one or whether it 1:04:05.440 --> 1:04:08.400 Peter's out here, I think it is absolutely possible that 1:04:08.440 --> 1:04:10.520 this Peter's out and this isn't the one. I don't 1:04:10.680 --> 1:04:13.840 think it's very likely that this Peter's out the Republican's 1:04:13.880 --> 1:04:15.600 sake a victory lap, and then we don't get more 1:04:15.640 --> 1:04:19.560 protests this summer. Yeah, at this scale or larger, Yeah, 1:04:19.600 --> 1:04:22.040 I think I think that's very unlikely. We should take 1:04:22.040 --> 1:04:23.120 an at break and that I want to talk a 1:04:23.160 --> 1:04:25.040 little bit about some of the tactics we've been seeing, 1:04:25.080 --> 1:04:32.840 because they're very funny. 1:04:36.760 --> 1:04:38.440 Ah, and we're back. 1:04:38.840 --> 1:04:41.760 I should probably note very quickly that, like obviously, one 1:04:41.800 --> 1:04:43.800 thing that happens when shit like this goes down is 1:04:43.840 --> 1:04:46.800 that you get people posting on the. 1:04:46.760 --> 1:04:48.200 Internet their thoughts about this. 1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:51.760 One of the more prominent posters on Twitter in the 1:04:51.800 --> 1:04:54.720 new musc Era has been the menswear Guy, who made 1:04:54.760 --> 1:04:57.280 a couple of statements that I don't entirely agree with 1:04:57.320 --> 1:05:00.200 about Like, I mean, in general, support protests, but I 1:05:00.240 --> 1:05:03.640 don't support you know, violent protests what I would call 1:05:03.720 --> 1:05:07.200 some kind of mish interpretations of the civil rights movement, 1:05:07.240 --> 1:05:09.160 but also like not something I would I don't. I 1:05:09.160 --> 1:05:11.840 don't care that much if people are wrong on the internet. 1:05:12.000 --> 1:05:15.280 Yeah, I mean, he did have a straight up poster 1:05:15.400 --> 1:05:19.640 meltdown where he was like yelling about someone's like breakup 1:05:19.800 --> 1:05:22.439 to say that they're insufficiently devoted because they didn't stay 1:05:22.480 --> 1:05:24.400 with this person, to like keep them in the curry. 1:05:24.680 --> 1:05:25.840 There is melt on base. 1:05:25.720 --> 1:05:29.520 Shit, but like, but matters, people melt down, posters melt out. 1:05:29.720 --> 1:05:31.680 What I think what matters is that like he made 1:05:31.720 --> 1:05:33.840 a post later, a longer one, talking about the fact 1:05:33.840 --> 1:05:37.080 that he was undocumented, his family was undocumented because you know, 1:05:37.120 --> 1:05:40.280 they came to initially Canada after the tet offensive and 1:05:40.600 --> 1:05:42.840 entered the US through a porous border, and talking about 1:05:42.840 --> 1:05:45.120 the way in which being undocumented has like affected his 1:05:45.320 --> 1:05:48.920 entire life. And now the vice president and the DHS 1:05:48.920 --> 1:05:51.000 account put us in a picture of like spy kids 1:05:51.000 --> 1:05:53.200 of a kid with like a little like computer tracker 1:05:53.240 --> 1:05:56.360 thing on his eye, and Jade Vance made a post 1:05:56.400 --> 1:05:59.040 being like basically, we're going to deport the menswear guy 1:05:59.120 --> 1:05:59.880 for his posts. 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:01.760 Yeah, which is fucking hideous. 1:06:01.800 --> 1:06:03.920 Which is it's just like again another example of the 1:06:04.040 --> 1:06:07.480 ridiculous level of government repression that we're looking at here, 1:06:07.720 --> 1:06:11.720 like where the federal government is like targeting themselves based 1:06:11.720 --> 1:06:14.040 on posts that make people angry. 1:06:14.160 --> 1:06:16.640 Yeah, and well it's basically post on Twitter. Yeah too, like, 1:06:16.680 --> 1:06:19.240 and like that's also an important thing of like, if 1:06:19.240 --> 1:06:21.760 you're not on Twitter, it is harder to get the 1:06:21.800 --> 1:06:24.920 eye of the state on you if you are on Twitter. Yeah, Like, 1:06:25.000 --> 1:06:30.000 the Vice president can be posting fucking unhinged reply images 1:06:30.040 --> 1:06:34.040 to someone talking about deporting you, like Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, 1:06:34.280 --> 1:06:37.720 is a horrifying level of repression. The sort of mirror 1:06:37.720 --> 1:06:39.400 to this is the stuff we've been seeing on the ground. 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:42.520 Right there's a video going around of a like a 1:06:42.560 --> 1:06:45.560 pretty right wing at like Australian journalists who's just like 1:06:45.760 --> 1:06:47.440 talking about the protests. 1:06:47.000 --> 1:06:50.080 And like maybe twenty feet their back turned to a 1:06:50.080 --> 1:06:51.240 police right line, it's. 1:06:51.160 --> 1:06:53.880 More like like fifteen. The guy like the end of 1:06:53.880 --> 1:06:55.520 the right line just like turns and shoots. 1:06:55.200 --> 1:06:58.760 Her very casually about no protesters close to her, absolutely, 1:06:58.760 --> 1:07:01.400 no question, no no chance that he was aiming at 1:07:01.400 --> 1:07:05.600 someone else, zero chance, no chance that he thought that 1:07:05.640 --> 1:07:08.240 she was attacking him. Just shot a lady in the 1:07:08.280 --> 1:07:11.400 back of her thigh with an impact mutition for no reason. 1:07:11.920 --> 1:07:13.440 The most on hinge part of this, well, okay, the 1:07:13.440 --> 1:07:14.920 most on hinge part of this was that they fucking 1:07:14.920 --> 1:07:16.520 did this. The second most On Hinge. Part of it 1:07:16.600 --> 1:07:20.200 was that her fucking like her fucking outlet in the 1:07:20.240 --> 1:07:22.280 description of the video said that they appeared to be 1:07:22.320 --> 1:07:25.360 targeting a profire, like appear to be targeting a protests, Like, no, 1:07:25.480 --> 1:07:28.120 they weren't. Man, there's this really amazing thing with the 1:07:28.160 --> 1:07:31.920 American press were like they are incapable of objectively describing 1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:34.760 the thing that a cop does because if they described 1:07:34.800 --> 1:07:37.640 the thing that the cop does, it looks like anti. 1:07:37.440 --> 1:07:40.400 POA everyone can see yeah. 1:07:40.120 --> 1:07:42.080 Yeah, and so they have to just lie about it 1:07:42.120 --> 1:07:43.640 and be like, oh, it was Colon Crush is like, no, 1:07:44.000 --> 1:07:46.840 with your own eyes you can see, but the headline 1:07:46.880 --> 1:07:47.440 is lying. 1:07:47.520 --> 1:07:50.560 This is not questionable. This is not an arguable point. 1:07:50.600 --> 1:07:53.640 This is not debatable. Oh, the footage is objective. 1:07:53.800 --> 1:07:55.120 Enob watched the video. 1:07:55.320 --> 1:07:58.120 It's like, okay, guys, he just shot her because he 1:07:58.160 --> 1:08:00.640 wanted to, because he thought it was funny, Like that's 1:08:00.680 --> 1:08:01.920 why he did it, we know. 1:08:02.600 --> 1:08:05.480 Yeah, And like this kind of shit just continues to happen, 1:08:05.680 --> 1:08:08.840 Like the press has learned nothing from twenty twenty. They're 1:08:08.880 --> 1:08:12.480 still doing all the stupid snography shit. There's actually been 1:08:12.520 --> 1:08:14.040 shit the cops I've done in this protest that I've 1:08:14.080 --> 1:08:16.479 never actually seen before, which is a new one, because 1:08:16.760 --> 1:08:18.479 by by the time I was like, I was like 1:08:18.479 --> 1:08:21.840 a few weeks of twenty twenty, I had seen basically everything, right, Like, 1:08:21.920 --> 1:08:24.439 I'm doing this for like fucking ages. I've seen the 1:08:24.479 --> 1:08:27.240 cops trample people with horses before. I had never seen 1:08:27.479 --> 1:08:30.200 them trample a guy and beat him with the same 1:08:30.520 --> 1:08:33.719 person on a horse. Yeah, beating a guy and trampling 1:08:33.760 --> 1:08:36.080 them with the horse at the same time. That's a 1:08:36.080 --> 1:08:39.479 new one. Good fucking God. That's also and I think 1:08:39.479 --> 1:08:42.080 it's actually is this worth understanding? Is that, like that 1:08:42.200 --> 1:08:44.479 is the points of police horses, Like the reason they 1:08:44.479 --> 1:08:46.120 have them is so they can trample people with them. 1:08:46.200 --> 1:08:48.120 Yeah, it's to run people over with them. 1:08:48.280 --> 1:08:51.559 Yes, Yeah, And it's it's real fucking bad. That's that's 1:08:52.080 --> 1:08:55.360 hideous and shit like this has been happening this whole time. 1:08:55.680 --> 1:08:57.880 There's been a bunch of journalists who have really been 1:08:57.880 --> 1:08:59.639 really severely injured by impact munitions. 1:08:59.840 --> 1:08:59.960 Right. 1:09:00.520 --> 1:09:03.160 Yeah, one guy who got shot in the skull with 1:09:03.160 --> 1:09:05.200 a you can tell it's a forty millimeters round because 1:09:05.200 --> 1:09:06.719 of the indent that left in his skull. 1:09:06.920 --> 1:09:09.120 Yeah, those things are like the size of your fist and. 1:09:09.160 --> 1:09:11.920 Yeah, they're just they're they're massive, and they're not they're 1:09:11.960 --> 1:09:14.080 not even meant to be fired directly. When you're shooting 1:09:14.120 --> 1:09:15.920 at people, you're supposed to shoot them up at the 1:09:15.920 --> 1:09:17.360 ground and bounce them into people. 1:09:17.560 --> 1:09:17.800 Yeah. 1:09:17.920 --> 1:09:20.040 Now, no cop has ever done this. 1:09:20.120 --> 1:09:22.040 They don't use them that way. I've had a used 1:09:22.080 --> 1:09:23.360 on me, like I'm sorry. 1:09:23.640 --> 1:09:26.600 Yeah, this this munition has never been used like that, 1:09:26.760 --> 1:09:27.519 no single time. 1:09:28.160 --> 1:09:30.599 That's and that's the general truth of riot munitions. And actually, 1:09:30.600 --> 1:09:31.840 I don't know if this guy was shot with a 1:09:31.960 --> 1:09:34.360 with a with a rubber around or a foam round. 1:09:34.400 --> 1:09:36.519 I think they probably shot him with a grenade, which 1:09:36.520 --> 1:09:39.040 you're also not supposed to shoot at people, but again 1:09:39.080 --> 1:09:40.320 they do all. 1:09:40.080 --> 1:09:42.040 The time, which also kills people a lot. 1:09:42.240 --> 1:09:44.280 Guy very nearly died in Portland a few years back 1:09:44.280 --> 1:09:46.320 from that. Only his bike helmet saved him. 1:09:46.400 --> 1:09:46.679 Yeah. 1:09:46.760 --> 1:09:48.200 Yeah, like this is this is a This is one 1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:50.200 of the most common ways people get killed in protests 1:09:50.240 --> 1:09:52.639 is by the cops shooting them. Yeah, like ture gas 1:09:52.640 --> 1:09:55.479 cans specifically, especially like in Turkey, this is a huge thing. 1:09:56.320 --> 1:09:58.120 Like a bunch of people got killed by by you 1:09:58.200 --> 1:10:03.040 gonna keep my trus canisters. Yeah, However, Coma. There has 1:10:03.200 --> 1:10:07.240 been a bunch of extremely funny and like pretty effective 1:10:07.320 --> 1:10:10.559 tactics people have been using. One of which I've never 1:10:10.680 --> 1:10:15.680 seen before that is fascinating is people were calling wimos, 1:10:15.720 --> 1:10:18.360 which are these like driverless yes, yes, yeah. 1:10:18.439 --> 1:10:19.439 So they would use the app to. 1:10:19.439 --> 1:10:21.719 Call winmos to places they wanted to set up roadblocks, 1:10:21.720 --> 1:10:23.880 stop police cars going through, and stop ice cars going through, 1:10:23.920 --> 1:10:26.880 and then they would light them on fire. And they 1:10:27.000 --> 1:10:29.840 did this to so many of these cars that the 1:10:30.040 --> 1:10:33.360 LAPD called Wimo and told them to shut it down 1:10:33.760 --> 1:10:36.439 because they were like, literally, it's it's it's a self 1:10:36.600 --> 1:10:38.000 driving flaming barricade. 1:10:38.200 --> 1:10:40.439 Well, and I think white people were doing it is 1:10:40.479 --> 1:10:43.640 in part because like they like the board started spreading that, 1:10:44.240 --> 1:10:47.080 like the police, were you getting footage from wimo, right, 1:10:47.800 --> 1:10:49.960 So they were like, well, these are surveillance machines and 1:10:50.120 --> 1:10:52.479 yeah if you if you show up, you light one 1:10:52.520 --> 1:10:54.280 on fire and there's this flaming barricade. 1:10:54.400 --> 1:10:55.160 Yeah yep. 1:10:55.880 --> 1:10:57.200 And then and then then people figured out that you 1:10:57.200 --> 1:10:58.760 could just like, oh, we could just bring these to 1:10:58.840 --> 1:11:02.920 places like this. This is a self deploying flaming barricade. 1:11:03.240 --> 1:11:03.479 Yeah. 1:11:03.920 --> 1:11:04.120 Yeah. 1:11:04.760 --> 1:11:07.320 And and the other thing that that's interesting about it too, 1:11:07.439 --> 1:11:09.320 is it's another one of these examples that you see 1:11:09.479 --> 1:11:12.400 in protests of like people have this tendency to think 1:11:12.439 --> 1:11:17.040 of riots as these like really spontaneous things that nobody's 1:11:17.120 --> 1:11:19.639 like thinking about a lot. But the thing about why 1:11:19.760 --> 1:11:22.320 mows is that, like, if you've like walked in a 1:11:22.400 --> 1:11:24.240 city that has these things, these things have tried to 1:11:24.320 --> 1:11:27.360 run you over at least once. Yeah, Like there's there's 1:11:27.400 --> 1:11:29.240 a verileles angle. There's also the angle that these things 1:11:29.240 --> 1:11:31.519 are trying to fucking kill you all the time. And 1:11:31.680 --> 1:11:32.920 so and this is like, you know, this is a 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:35.080 very common like like first thing that happens in the 1:11:35.200 --> 1:11:38.400 riot is like people burn down the thing that has 1:11:38.439 --> 1:11:40.719 been trying to fucking kill them this whole time. Yeah, 1:11:41.040 --> 1:11:42.720 so this is this one, except they figured out how 1:11:42.720 --> 1:11:44.680 to turn it into flaming card barricades. 1:11:46.720 --> 1:11:46.920 Yeah. 1:11:47.200 --> 1:11:49.600 So I don't know, I guess we should end this 1:11:49.760 --> 1:11:53.080 with assuming things do kind of get get bigger, or 1:11:53.200 --> 1:11:56.120 assuming things get bigger later. Yeah, and you're watching this 1:11:56.479 --> 1:11:59.760 and either you head out soon and wind up you know, 1:12:00.000 --> 1:12:02.880 being at a protest, or that happens later. There's a 1:12:02.920 --> 1:12:04.639 couple of things to keep in mind. One of them 1:12:04.840 --> 1:12:07.360 is especially as we hit the summer. There's always trade 1:12:07.360 --> 1:12:09.800 offs when we talk about like different kinds of body 1:12:09.920 --> 1:12:11.439 armor that you may or may not want to have, 1:12:11.880 --> 1:12:14.599 right you know, the two broad types are soft ballistic 1:12:14.720 --> 1:12:16.840 armor and hard ballistic armor. When we talk about like 1:12:16.880 --> 1:12:20.120 ballistic body armor that can that is resistant to bullets, 1:12:20.840 --> 1:12:25.120 downsides to both of those are expense no reliable body armour, 1:12:25.160 --> 1:12:27.720 and I'm talking about NIJ certified body armour, which you 1:12:27.720 --> 1:12:29.639 should always shoot forard. None of that is ever cheap. 1:12:30.280 --> 1:12:33.400 Some is cheaper than others. Soft body armor is really 1:12:33.439 --> 1:12:36.960 all you need for riot munitions. It doesn't stop the 1:12:37.040 --> 1:12:39.120 pain as much as hard body armour. I've been hit 1:12:39.240 --> 1:12:42.679 in hard body armor by impact munitions by like foam 1:12:42.720 --> 1:12:46.000 rounds and stuff and barely felt it, whereas being hit 1:12:46.080 --> 1:12:49.160 with them in soft armor is still pretty painful. However, 1:12:49.560 --> 1:12:52.160 hard body armor, like the stuff that stops rifle rounds, 1:12:52.240 --> 1:12:55.679 can shatter when hit by impact munitions, and again, because 1:12:55.720 --> 1:12:57.800 it's a significant expense, means you might not have that 1:12:57.920 --> 1:13:00.840 hard body armour anymore. The other thing keeping counters that 1:13:00.840 --> 1:13:03.680 when you're talking about like armor for your body, if 1:13:03.720 --> 1:13:06.479 you're worried primarily about impact munitions, it doesn't have to 1:13:06.520 --> 1:13:09.760 be ballistic. Stuff like football pads, hockey pads works very 1:13:09.800 --> 1:13:11.520 well against soft munitions. 1:13:11.720 --> 1:13:11.840 Right. 1:13:12.479 --> 1:13:15.040 Again, there's a huge trade off and potentially a safety 1:13:15.080 --> 1:13:16.760 trade off if it's one hundred and ten degrees where 1:13:16.800 --> 1:13:19.519 you are, like the danger of wearing any body armour 1:13:19.560 --> 1:13:22.000 and how much it slows you down, and how the 1:13:22.040 --> 1:13:24.080 odds of it causing you to have heat stroke or 1:13:24.120 --> 1:13:27.400 whatever can be significantly higher than like whatever you'd gain 1:13:27.439 --> 1:13:29.599 in protection. However, there are some things you should never 1:13:29.720 --> 1:13:32.519 go into a situation like this without in terms of armor. 1:13:32.840 --> 1:13:35.280 One of those is a helmet. Again, there are ballistic 1:13:35.320 --> 1:13:38.360 helmets that are resistant to pistol rounds. There are no 1:13:38.479 --> 1:13:41.400 helmets that exist that will reliably stop rifle rounds at 1:13:41.960 --> 1:13:43.600 by close range with a rifle. We're talking within a 1:13:43.600 --> 1:13:46.639 couple hundred meters, right, Those don't exist. They can stop 1:13:46.680 --> 1:13:49.720 maybe a ricochet or a glancing blow. They're good for shrapnel, 1:13:49.920 --> 1:13:52.800 they're good for pistols. That's what helmet ballistic helmets are for, 1:13:53.040 --> 1:13:55.360 and those are great for police riot rounds. A ballistic 1:13:55.439 --> 1:13:57.360 helmet is a really good thing to have if they 1:13:57.400 --> 1:13:59.920 are shooting rubber rounds or shooting grenades. Directly at people. 1:14:00.479 --> 1:14:03.200 It is not, however, the only thing you need or 1:14:03.240 --> 1:14:06.759 the only thing that could provide safety. It's not ideal 1:14:06.880 --> 1:14:09.160 to have like a bump helmet or a bike helmet 1:14:09.280 --> 1:14:11.400 as opposed to a ballistic helmet, or like a bike 1:14:11.439 --> 1:14:14.559 helmet as opposed to a bump helmet. These are different things. 1:14:14.640 --> 1:14:16.879 A bump helmet is higher rated than like a standard 1:14:16.960 --> 1:14:20.639 bike helmet. A motorcycle helmet is also pretty robust. 1:14:20.760 --> 1:14:21.160 A bumper. 1:14:21.200 --> 1:14:23.479 A motorcycle helmet is better to have if you're being 1:14:23.560 --> 1:14:26.320 shot at with non lethal or less than lethal whatever 1:14:26.439 --> 1:14:29.160 you want to call them munitions, but all of those, 1:14:29.360 --> 1:14:32.799 any kind of helmet is better than your bare skull 1:14:33.160 --> 1:14:37.240 when police are shooting into a craft. So where something 1:14:37.320 --> 1:14:40.479 even if it's a ten dollars fucking bicycle helmet, if 1:14:40.520 --> 1:14:44.439 that's all you can get where that, don't go into 1:14:44.479 --> 1:14:47.840 a situation like this without a helmet. Bring something like 1:14:47.960 --> 1:14:50.640 a fucking camelback or whatever that you can have on 1:14:50.760 --> 1:14:53.280 your back and drink water from regularly, as well as 1:14:53.479 --> 1:14:55.559 bottles of water that you can use to wash out 1:14:55.640 --> 1:15:00.280 tear gas. Only use water to wash out tear gas water. 1:15:00.840 --> 1:15:03.080 And if you catch people being like milk works. Tell 1:15:03.120 --> 1:15:04.759 them you are wrong. Don't use milk. 1:15:05.040 --> 1:15:10.400 No friends, corets, lovers, your family. He can be the 1:15:10.560 --> 1:15:13.719 generation that stops using milk for tear gas. 1:15:14.080 --> 1:15:14.760 You can do this. 1:15:14.920 --> 1:15:18.000 You don't need to make cheese and your eyes only. 1:15:18.240 --> 1:15:22.680 You can set people. For the love of God, it 1:15:23.000 --> 1:15:24.559 doesn't work anytime. 1:15:24.600 --> 1:15:26.360 And if somebody starts talking about well, no, you know, 1:15:26.439 --> 1:15:28.479 actually it's just like if you eat something spicy and milk. 1:15:28.920 --> 1:15:33.080 No, no, no, no, no, none of that's right. I'm 1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:34.760 telling you none of that's right. 1:15:35.240 --> 1:15:35.400 Now. 1:15:35.960 --> 1:15:38.800 Some people do use something called law, which is like 1:15:38.920 --> 1:15:40.600 a mixture of I think it's an an answer or 1:15:40.600 --> 1:15:40.880 something like that. 1:15:40.920 --> 1:15:43.639 I think exactly what's in law, And yeah, that can 1:15:43.880 --> 1:15:47.280 be effective, but don't use it. Just use water. Use water. 1:15:47.600 --> 1:15:49.120 Use water. Just use water. 1:15:49.479 --> 1:15:51.720 If you are if you have some degree of like 1:15:51.800 --> 1:15:54.479 professional medical treatment, and you decide law is better, do 1:15:54.560 --> 1:15:58.040 whatever you want doctor right, but like, don't you listening, 1:15:58.479 --> 1:15:59.760 use water right? 1:16:00.360 --> 1:16:03.160 Just water. Look melt ice into water. 1:16:05.200 --> 1:16:05.880 Clean water. 1:16:06.000 --> 1:16:09.200 It's idea from something like guess anyway whatever. When it 1:16:09.240 --> 1:16:13.280 comes to mace, water eventually will get mace out. Mace 1:16:13.400 --> 1:16:17.120 is way different from tear gas. Tear gas. With water, 1:16:17.320 --> 1:16:19.960 you can be back to functional in a couple of minutes, right, 1:16:20.080 --> 1:16:21.680 if you wash your eyes out. I've been tear gas 1:16:21.760 --> 1:16:23.200 like two hundred fucking times, and I'll tell you it 1:16:23.280 --> 1:16:25.719 never takes that long to get your eyes functional again. 1:16:25.800 --> 1:16:26.200 Assuming. 1:16:27.120 --> 1:16:28.519 The other thing you want to note is that if 1:16:28.640 --> 1:16:31.800 you're going into a tear gas situation, if you wear contacts, 1:16:31.920 --> 1:16:35.160 don't glasses only, right, because you do not want to 1:16:35.240 --> 1:16:37.519 have mace or tear gas in your eyes. When you 1:16:37.640 --> 1:16:40.759 have contacts, it can cause permanent debilitating damage. 1:16:40.920 --> 1:16:41.040 Right. 1:16:41.400 --> 1:16:44.400 They may need to surgically remove your fucking contacts where 1:16:44.400 --> 1:16:48.439 you're goddamn glasses. You can, and I have worn contacts 1:16:48.479 --> 1:16:50.720 with like a full face respirator or a full face 1:16:50.800 --> 1:16:53.160 gas mask. But there are still dangers there, including that 1:16:53.640 --> 1:16:55.800 if you are wearing a full face mask or a 1:16:55.880 --> 1:16:58.360 gas mask or something like that and the police catch you, 1:16:58.800 --> 1:17:02.120 they will pull that up and mace you underneath your mask. 1:17:02.240 --> 1:17:04.160 It's happened to a bunch of people I know. And 1:17:04.240 --> 1:17:06.280 if you're wearing contacts under there, you can get in 1:17:06.439 --> 1:17:09.720 very bed shape. There are easy ways to make glasses 1:17:09.800 --> 1:17:12.880 holders if you've got a spare pair of lenses inside 1:17:12.920 --> 1:17:15.599 a mask like that. Anyway, the other thing to note 1:17:15.720 --> 1:17:18.000 is that mace is not the same as tear gas. 1:17:18.120 --> 1:17:20.800 Mace fucks you up for much longer. You are going 1:17:20.840 --> 1:17:22.960 to be out of commission for at least probably twenty 1:17:23.040 --> 1:17:25.679 to thirty minutes with mace. In the best case scenario, 1:17:26.360 --> 1:17:30.360 enough water will eventually wash out mace, right, It will 1:17:30.439 --> 1:17:33.640 eventually deal with it, but not on any kind of 1:17:33.760 --> 1:17:36.479 short timeframe. Right, It's going to take you a while 1:17:36.720 --> 1:17:39.520 to get enough mace out of your eyes that way. Ideally, 1:17:39.720 --> 1:17:41.720 you get to a place where you have access to 1:17:41.800 --> 1:17:43.800 something like a faucet or a hose, and you use 1:17:43.960 --> 1:17:46.160 dawn dish soap is the best thing to use. That's 1:17:46.200 --> 1:17:49.920 going to remove the surface thing. There's a better thing 1:17:49.960 --> 1:17:51.320 for this, but I'm talking about if you don't have 1:17:51.360 --> 1:17:54.759 access to specialized things or like baby shampoo, right, something 1:17:54.840 --> 1:17:57.400 like that. Ideally, dish shop next would be something like 1:17:57.520 --> 1:18:00.160 baby shampoo, right, with a good amount of water. The 1:18:00.280 --> 1:18:03.040 very best thing for mace is a specific wipe that's 1:18:03.040 --> 1:18:04.519 made to be used for this, and this does also 1:18:04.600 --> 1:18:08.000 help for tear gas. It's called pseudocon Wipes sud e 1:18:08.200 --> 1:18:10.680 coo inn. You can buy it off of Amazon right now. 1:18:10.920 --> 1:18:14.400 They're not expensive. And carry a couple of packs. You 1:18:14.520 --> 1:18:16.519 generally want to like take what's in there in two 1:18:16.560 --> 1:18:18.920 different pieces and use one to kind of wipe away 1:18:18.960 --> 1:18:20.800 from your eyes, and then the other to clean your 1:18:20.840 --> 1:18:23.400 face up afterwards, once you've removed the bulk of the material. 1:18:23.720 --> 1:18:27.439 Pseudocon wipes are the best thing to use with mace. Anyway. 1:18:27.560 --> 1:18:28.280 That's a quick and. 1:18:28.320 --> 1:18:31.800 Dirty guide to what kind of stuff is useful for this. 1:18:32.040 --> 1:18:35.200 And as always, water water, water, Yeah. 1:18:35.280 --> 1:18:37.680 And the one last thing I want to add is 1:18:37.680 --> 1:18:40.720 that there is there is one more scourge that you 1:18:40.920 --> 1:18:45.479 can end in this generation. Stop getting kettled on bridges. 1:18:45.920 --> 1:18:48.760 I swear to God. Don't cross the bridge. Do not 1:18:49.240 --> 1:18:51.040 don't be like my action is we're going to hold 1:18:51.080 --> 1:18:53.280 a bridge. Every single time there's one of these goddamn protests, 1:18:53.479 --> 1:18:55.840 like ten thousand people get a rest on the Brooklyn Bridge. 1:18:55.840 --> 1:18:58.080 It happens every time. The thing with bridges is that 1:18:58.160 --> 1:19:00.479 if the police cut off both ends, you are now 1:19:00.600 --> 1:19:03.719 stuck on the bridge. Don't go onto the bridge, simply 1:19:03.800 --> 1:19:06.760 do not. Like I'm not even gonna give normally the 1:19:06.760 --> 1:19:08.439 speech that I give here is about like, oh well, 1:19:08.439 --> 1:19:09.720 if you've here on a bridge, make sure you can 1:19:09.760 --> 1:19:11.560 hold one side of it. No, no, no, no, no 1:19:11.880 --> 1:19:14.720 fuck that. No bridges. Don't go on bridges. We can 1:19:14.920 --> 1:19:18.439 stop as a society. We have the technology. Don't get 1:19:18.640 --> 1:19:20.599 don't get kettled on a bridge. It is so fucking 1:19:20.680 --> 1:19:22.920 easy you simply don't go on the bridge. 1:19:23.200 --> 1:19:26.839 Yeah, okay, and that's that's the episode for today. Everybody 1:19:27.520 --> 1:19:29.000 use water, don't get kettled on bridges. 1:19:29.200 --> 1:19:29.400 Yeah. 1:19:29.680 --> 1:19:54.240 Good luck everyone, Good luck, Hi everyone, and welcome to 1:19:54.320 --> 1:19:56.960 the podcast. It's me James today and I am lucky 1:19:57.000 --> 1:19:59.360 to be joined again by make We're going to talk 1:19:59.400 --> 1:20:03.720 today about and just like right off the top, this 1:20:04.000 --> 1:20:08.040 is going to be a sad episode. Not much good 1:20:08.160 --> 1:20:11.360 happens to migrants in Libya. A lot of bad stuff happens. 1:20:11.400 --> 1:20:14.120 And if you someone who prefers not to hear about 1:20:14.200 --> 1:20:20.120 like violence or sexual violence or incarceration, there's probably some 1:20:20.200 --> 1:20:23.360 other stuff I'm overlooking, this might not be the episode 1:20:23.400 --> 1:20:26.880 for you, and that's fine. But Mick, how you doing. Hi, James, 1:20:27.240 --> 1:20:30.200 I'm goods I'm good. That was an uplifting intro, wasn't it. 1:20:30.720 --> 1:20:32.760 I felt like that was a really positive way to 1:20:32.800 --> 1:20:33.400 start the show. 1:20:34.000 --> 1:20:38.920 Yes, definitely, definitely, but probably very warranted because it's not 1:20:39.040 --> 1:20:42.480 going to be a fun episode. Like there's torture, there's imprisonments, 1:20:42.640 --> 1:20:47.799 there's some slave months. It's horrible. Yeah, Libya is probably 1:20:48.680 --> 1:20:50.360 one of the worst countries in the world to be 1:20:50.400 --> 1:20:53.639 a migrant at the moment, if not the the worst. Yeah. 1:20:53.800 --> 1:20:57.120 I mean you have a whole industry, a whole part 1:20:57.240 --> 1:21:02.759 of their economy that is predicated on enslaving migrants lately 1:21:03.120 --> 1:21:06.719 selling people and all of the other kinds of violence 1:21:06.800 --> 1:21:07.360 that come from that. 1:21:08.040 --> 1:21:12.120 Exactly. There's I think over twenty or thirty different facilities 1:21:12.760 --> 1:21:17.880 with varying degrees of government involvement in those facilities, and 1:21:18.400 --> 1:21:21.400 it's very hard to pinpoint exactly like where does the 1:21:21.520 --> 1:21:27.880 government and where does this human trafficking business begin? Right, 1:21:28.080 --> 1:21:31.640 It's similar to like early mid Soviet Union, where there 1:21:31.760 --> 1:21:34.800 was so much organized crime happening within the government that 1:21:35.240 --> 1:21:38.400 it was also impossible to distinguish like where one began 1:21:38.520 --> 1:21:41.120 and where the other ended. Yeah, like which was which 1:21:41.720 --> 1:21:45.679 exactly it was under breast nev I think, but don't 1:21:45.960 --> 1:21:46.720 don't quote me on that. 1:21:47.400 --> 1:21:47.639 Yeah. 1:21:48.280 --> 1:21:51.400 So yeah, so give us a lad only. Well, first 1:21:51.439 --> 1:21:54.240 of all, maybe I guess if people have been not listening, 1:21:54.600 --> 1:21:55.759 why are we talking about Libya. 1:21:56.600 --> 1:22:00.240 Well, on May eighth, that was reported that the Trump 1:22:00.240 --> 1:22:04.679 administration was considering deporting migrants to this North African country, 1:22:05.360 --> 1:22:08.679 which is a new low. Like the bar is buried 1:22:09.400 --> 1:22:13.720 and these motherfuckers just grabbed a shovel. I don't think 1:22:13.760 --> 1:22:17.200 it's possible to exaggerate just how cruel this would be 1:22:17.320 --> 1:22:20.000 if it were to happen. As I said earlier, Libya 1:22:20.120 --> 1:22:23.120 is probably the worst country in the world to be 1:22:23.160 --> 1:22:26.639 a migrant at the moment. And to illustrate that, I'm 1:22:26.760 --> 1:22:30.040 going to briefly quote from this twenty twenty two the 1:22:30.160 --> 1:22:35.200 International article Men, women and children returned to Libya returned 1:22:35.240 --> 1:22:38.000 in this case meaning that they tried to cross the 1:22:38.080 --> 1:22:41.599 Mediterranean and were picked up by the Libyan coast guards. 1:22:42.360 --> 1:22:47.320 Returned to Libya face arbitrary detention, torture, cruel and inhumane 1:22:47.800 --> 1:22:53.360 detention conditions, rape and sexual violence, extortion, forced labor, and 1:22:53.520 --> 1:22:57.560 unlawful killings. Instead of addressing this human rights crisis, the 1:22:57.640 --> 1:23:02.839 Libyan Government of National Unity now called the GMU, continues 1:23:02.920 --> 1:23:07.519 to facilitate further abuses and trench impunity, as illustrated by 1:23:07.560 --> 1:23:11.240 its recent appointment of Muhammad al Koha as Director of 1:23:11.320 --> 1:23:15.560 the Department for Combating Illegal Migration, which we will be 1:23:15.840 --> 1:23:19.559 referring to as the DCIM from now on to make 1:23:20.240 --> 1:23:23.840 that entire list. Somehow worse, there has been extensive documentation 1:23:23.960 --> 1:23:27.520 from human rights groups that strongly suggest that the DCIM 1:23:27.600 --> 1:23:32.240 works together with non governmental militias, making the latter responsible 1:23:32.320 --> 1:23:37.200 for at least six unofficial detention centers, although it is 1:23:37.240 --> 1:23:39.160 reasonable to assume that there might be more. 1:23:40.000 --> 1:23:45.200 So reporting out of Libya is hard to understate it. Yes, 1:23:45.760 --> 1:23:48.280 Sally Hayden has an exlent book called My Fourth Time 1:23:48.360 --> 1:23:50.920 We Drown that like, one of the things I like 1:23:51.000 --> 1:23:54.920 about it is it explains like her journalistic process, and 1:23:55.080 --> 1:23:57.920 it's people who are detained in places where they can't 1:23:57.920 --> 1:24:02.240 get out, clubbing together to get one message out on 1:24:02.320 --> 1:24:04.920 the one phone that one person smuggled in in part 1:24:05.400 --> 1:24:07.760 right lake because someone had the battery, someone had the 1:24:07.880 --> 1:24:11.600 screen or whatever, and someone else had a simcard and 1:24:12.439 --> 1:24:14.800 like that way could they could get a message out. 1:24:14.840 --> 1:24:17.799 But it's everything that we hear about. We can assume 1:24:17.840 --> 1:24:20.040 that there is probably a lot more of it happening 1:24:20.120 --> 1:24:22.599 that we haven't heard about, or at least some more 1:24:22.640 --> 1:24:24.200 of it happening that we haven't heard about. 1:24:24.520 --> 1:24:27.880 Yeah, the worst part about this is that it's knowing 1:24:27.960 --> 1:24:32.200 that it's probably worse and it's probably more extensive than 1:24:32.240 --> 1:24:34.760 we know, because Yeah, as you said, Libya is a 1:24:34.800 --> 1:24:39.240 hard country to do this kind of reporting, and I 1:24:39.360 --> 1:24:42.000 am assuming that it's not very safe for a journalists 1:24:42.160 --> 1:24:45.960 to just go there and go talk to people. Yeah. 1:24:46.560 --> 1:24:48.760 Yeah, And like at the end of the day, you're 1:24:48.800 --> 1:24:51.280 not just as I'm sure you'll explain, You're not just 1:24:51.400 --> 1:24:57.080 fucking with the Libyan government. You're fucking with the European 1:24:57.200 --> 1:25:00.800 Union is absolutely complicit in this. They ain't coming to 1:25:00.880 --> 1:25:03.479 save you. We'll get to that how work. The EU 1:25:03.640 --> 1:25:07.760 is complicted in both funding and in actions. Yeah, so 1:25:08.160 --> 1:25:11.080 let's first get this onto the proper context. We're going 1:25:11.160 --> 1:25:13.439 to dive a bit into the history of Libya because 1:25:13.880 --> 1:25:16.880 that played a major part in how this situation is 1:25:17.000 --> 1:25:20.519 right now. So we'll start by talking about the former 1:25:20.600 --> 1:25:24.760 dictator Muamar Kadaffi. He took control of Libya through a 1:25:24.880 --> 1:25:29.320 military coudetta and ruled it from nineteen sixty nine up 1:25:29.400 --> 1:25:32.080 until he faced mob justice in the Libyan Civil War 1:25:32.200 --> 1:25:36.639 in twenty eleven. He is or was accused of human 1:25:36.720 --> 1:25:40.000 rights violations and cracking down heart on dis scent and opposition. 1:25:40.920 --> 1:25:44.240 Initially was on the list of states which sponsored terrorism, 1:25:44.800 --> 1:25:47.920 but from two thousand and four onwards he slowly began 1:25:48.000 --> 1:25:51.160 to rekindle ties with a number of countries, with one 1:25:51.200 --> 1:25:55.000 of the main champions for rehabilitation being Italy, the former 1:25:55.040 --> 1:25:58.280 colonial power that had occupied Libya. So to no one's 1:25:58.320 --> 1:26:02.040 surprised we're bringing in colonial here now, James, you get 1:26:02.160 --> 1:26:05.720 three guesses as to what one of the cooperations was 1:26:06.200 --> 1:26:10.320 between Libya and Italy. Well, I could get many things. Ray, 1:26:10.560 --> 1:26:15.080 there's some stories about good Affi and Berlusconi, but we 1:26:15.200 --> 1:26:18.840 won't talk about those. Was it preventing migrants crossing the 1:26:18.920 --> 1:26:19.800 Mediterranean Sea? 1:26:20.120 --> 1:26:21.679 Yes, that is true. 1:26:22.560 --> 1:26:24.720 Yeah, something the Italians loved to do. 1:26:25.240 --> 1:26:28.160 It was happening back then as well. Yeah, it's a 1:26:28.240 --> 1:26:32.360 really weird relationship between Italy and Libya. That's also kind 1:26:32.360 --> 1:26:35.439 of fascinating. But then we're going to get all the 1:26:35.520 --> 1:26:37.160 way off topic if we dive into that. 1:26:37.800 --> 1:26:38.000 Yeah. 1:26:38.720 --> 1:26:42.719 So, somewhere between two thousand and four and two thousand 1:26:42.760 --> 1:26:45.720 and five, Libya was supplied with money and equipment to 1:26:45.840 --> 1:26:49.960 help stem the flow of illegal migration coming from Africa. 1:26:50.600 --> 1:26:53.479 Kadaffi himself said in twenty ten that this was to 1:26:53.560 --> 1:26:56.920 prevent the laws of European cultural identity to a new 1:26:57.520 --> 1:27:01.280 Black Europa, after Libya was paid fifty million euro for 1:27:01.400 --> 1:27:02.720 this purpose that same year. 1:27:03.120 --> 1:27:06.280 Yeah, yeah, based anti colonial. Yes, I'm sure there's a 1:27:06.360 --> 1:27:08.600 good aff he did nothing wrong movement that exists on 1:27:08.680 --> 1:27:11.000 some corner of Reddit that I haven't oh got that 1:27:11.240 --> 1:27:14.240 plummeted into yet. But yeah, this guy was a third. 1:27:14.240 --> 1:27:16.320 I cannot find a stick long enough that I would 1:27:16.360 --> 1:27:20.599 touch that community with, to be honest. That's also something 1:27:20.640 --> 1:27:22.160 that plays in here, and that I think if you 1:27:22.280 --> 1:27:25.200 read a lot of human rights reports you come across it. 1:27:25.280 --> 1:27:28.080 But there's also like a distinct form of racism for 1:27:28.240 --> 1:27:31.880 sub Saharan or like Eastern African people. Definitely, Yeah, that's 1:27:32.000 --> 1:27:36.120 also going to play into this. It's just a smorgas 1:27:36.200 --> 1:27:37.880 board of bad stuff. Yeah. 1:27:38.200 --> 1:27:40.560 I mean for people who perhaps grew up in the 1:27:40.680 --> 1:27:43.240 United States, you know, for their own received veried education 1:27:43.400 --> 1:27:46.200 in school about African geography and politics, like this can 1:27:46.280 --> 1:27:50.879 be hard to grasp. Right, Like Africa is sometimes perceived 1:27:50.920 --> 1:27:54.240 as a country, not a continent in sort of discourse 1:27:54.320 --> 1:27:56.960 in the United States, and that's again, like it's not 1:27:57.040 --> 1:27:59.880 people's fault, like it's in nature. Our education is just 1:28:00.120 --> 1:28:03.920 failing people. But yeah, if you're not familiar, rarely view 1:28:03.920 --> 1:28:07.439 it's called in North Africa and like great replacement style. 1:28:08.360 --> 1:28:13.559 Racist conspiracies absolutely exist in North Africa about people from 1:28:13.600 --> 1:28:16.400 Sub Saharan Africa, either that the parts of Africa that 1:28:16.439 --> 1:28:18.880 are beneath the Sahara Desert and in the which you 1:28:18.920 --> 1:28:21.360 could find by looking at them that. But yeah, like 1:28:21.880 --> 1:28:24.200 just because this is in Africa, like racist shit is 1:28:24.240 --> 1:28:25.240 absolutely going down. 1:28:25.680 --> 1:28:25.720 No. 1:28:26.120 --> 1:28:28.719 I think it was highlighted a bit when the president 1:28:28.840 --> 1:28:32.599 or Prime Minister of Tunisia was cracking down on migration 1:28:32.760 --> 1:28:36.439 that there was also like a very distinct racism against 1:28:36.720 --> 1:28:38.280 against Sub Saharan Africans. 1:28:39.240 --> 1:28:41.120 Yeah, but it is. 1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:43.640 It's a global thing where it because racist is a 1:28:43.760 --> 1:28:47.200 social construct and it's not like an inherent thing that 1:28:47.439 --> 1:28:50.479 that you You'll hear this a lot. You know, I've 1:28:50.479 --> 1:28:52.879 worked in Hispanijula a lot, right, the island that contains 1:28:53.240 --> 1:28:56.360 hating Dominican Republic, the island which receives millions of dollars 1:28:56.400 --> 1:29:00.240 from the United States to reinforce the border between two 1:29:00.360 --> 1:29:05.200 nations that make it up. You will hear this reference 1:29:05.280 --> 1:29:09.640 to Haitian people as black from Afro Caribbean Dominican people, right, 1:29:09.880 --> 1:29:13.720 And this idea that there's this racial distinction between the two, 1:29:14.360 --> 1:29:16.599 that it's a nature of race, right, it's it's such 1:29:16.640 --> 1:29:19.120 a construct between mobilized to create a power dynamic. 1:29:19.840 --> 1:29:23.519 And that's a whole other topic of discussion because I 1:29:23.600 --> 1:29:27.360 identity and race are so intermingled but also so fluid. 1:29:27.760 --> 1:29:30.560 Yeah that you could talk for hours about it, but 1:29:30.920 --> 1:29:33.800 that's not why we're here. Yeah, a warming up ties 1:29:33.840 --> 1:29:37.080 with Libya as a pragmatic approach from the EU as 1:29:37.160 --> 1:29:40.280 it lies just on the doorstep of fortress Europe, but 1:29:40.479 --> 1:29:44.440 also marked the start of set fortress to start externalizing 1:29:44.520 --> 1:29:48.640 its borders into Africa, slowly working towards keeping migrants and 1:29:48.720 --> 1:29:52.519 refugees from setting food on European soil, which would entitle 1:29:52.640 --> 1:29:56.479 them to apply for asylum. So even that's that that 1:29:56.640 --> 1:30:00.120 step that's encoded in European law, we're trying to like 1:30:00.439 --> 1:30:03.760 circumvent by just making sure that they don't cross the Mediterranean. 1:30:03.920 --> 1:30:04.080 Right. 1:30:04.400 --> 1:30:07.360 So sometime later, when the civil war began during the 1:30:07.560 --> 1:30:10.760 Art Spring, Yeah, Libyan dissidents got rid of the sex 1:30:10.920 --> 1:30:14.599 best that was more Mar Kadaffi so the world became 1:30:14.640 --> 1:30:18.080 a slightly better place after that. Currently, there are two 1:30:18.160 --> 1:30:21.439 major factions fighting over power in Libya, although there are 1:30:21.560 --> 1:30:25.519 numerous other groups involved. To dive into this would probably 1:30:25.600 --> 1:30:27.400 take up most of the episodes, so I will leave 1:30:27.479 --> 1:30:30.560 that aside. Yeah. The first of the major factions is 1:30:30.600 --> 1:30:34.439 the GNU. The Government of National Unity, led by Prime 1:30:34.479 --> 1:30:39.080 Minister Abdul ahmit de Deba, even fills the north west 1:30:39.120 --> 1:30:42.479 of Libya, including the capital Tripoli. The other faction is 1:30:42.560 --> 1:30:46.840 led by US Libyan National Khalifa Hafta, who commands the 1:30:46.920 --> 1:30:51.160 Libyan National Army or LNA, who expressed loyalty to the 1:30:51.200 --> 1:30:54.240 elected governments and are therefore often referred to as the 1:30:54.560 --> 1:30:58.439 ho R the House of Represented Sentatives. I will try 1:30:58.479 --> 1:31:03.520 to be consistent with these acronyms, but no guarantees. Unsurprisingly, 1:31:04.000 --> 1:31:06.960 after I was mentioned in accusations made in twenty three 1:31:07.040 --> 1:31:10.840 for his militia's treatment of migrants, with some reports indicating 1:31:10.960 --> 1:31:15.080 that they or he may be profiting of the smuggling SAM. 1:31:15.560 --> 1:31:18.080 We pretty much got a warlord over there with an 1:31:18.160 --> 1:31:24.040 army at his disposal who's not disincentivized not treat migrants 1:31:24.080 --> 1:31:28.720 as things for his own profit. Yeah, right, Another fun 1:31:28.800 --> 1:31:31.840 fact that reveals how absolutely fucked up the situation is 1:31:32.760 --> 1:31:37.439 the capture and subsequent release of infamous warlord Osama Ala 1:31:37.560 --> 1:31:41.800 Musti by Italy. Al Masri had outstanding warrants from the 1:31:42.240 --> 1:31:45.679 International Criminal Court due to him having the triply branch 1:31:45.720 --> 1:31:50.120 of detention centers backed by the Special Defense Force, both 1:31:50.160 --> 1:31:52.639 of which are used of atrocities and war crimes during 1:31:52.680 --> 1:31:55.600 the Civil War. He was captured in Turin after a 1:31:55.880 --> 1:31:59.680 soccer match. The ICC requested he be arrested, but they 1:31:59.760 --> 1:32:03.559 too based tribunal declines to approve prove it, after which 1:32:03.560 --> 1:32:06.439 I must relyos for his knies back into Libya Jesus. 1:32:06.840 --> 1:32:10.479 So yeah right, we love our ICC and then not 1:32:10.720 --> 1:32:14.559 following through on it, Yeah right, Like the ICIC does 1:32:14.640 --> 1:32:16.240 not in fact have an army that it can send 1:32:16.320 --> 1:32:17.840 out to people who completely ignore it. 1:32:18.320 --> 1:32:20.519 Yeah, it's a body that doesn't have any power to 1:32:20.600 --> 1:32:24.360 really enforce decisions. I know that the current Dutch Prime 1:32:24.400 --> 1:32:27.559 Minister said of Benjamin Nett and Yahoo that they could 1:32:27.680 --> 1:32:31.559 just ignore the outstanding warrant for his arrest, that Yao 1:32:31.680 --> 1:32:36.519 could just visit the Netherlands, which, like, I don't even 1:32:36.560 --> 1:32:37.519 know what to say about that. 1:32:37.880 --> 1:32:40.320 Yeah, I mean, this is the nature of what you're 1:32:40.360 --> 1:32:43.799 talking about in an extent, right, like the ICC's rulings, 1:32:43.840 --> 1:32:46.479 and all human rights only exist insofar as they are 1:32:46.560 --> 1:32:48.599 convenient to the powerful states in the world. 1:32:49.040 --> 1:32:51.280 It's very much it rules for d but not for 1:32:51.479 --> 1:32:52.960 me kind of attitude. 1:32:53.160 --> 1:32:53.839 Yeah, exactly. 1:32:54.160 --> 1:32:58.240 Yeah, I find it extremely disheartening and I feel myself 1:32:58.320 --> 1:33:01.599 growing more cynical because of this world that I grew 1:33:01.720 --> 1:33:04.800 up in and I'm slowly seeing that all the rules 1:33:04.840 --> 1:33:06.320 and all the great things that I was taught in 1:33:06.360 --> 1:33:10.200 school are kind of not rules but more like guidelines. Yeah. 1:33:10.280 --> 1:33:13.400 Yeah, and that only applied to certain people. It's really 1:33:13.600 --> 1:33:16.240 heartbreaking to see. Like I mean, I've heard it a 1:33:16.320 --> 1:33:19.519 lot from people, right, but especially from Burmese people. They 1:33:19.680 --> 1:33:22.760 really educated themselves an international law. When they were going 1:33:22.800 --> 1:33:24.560 out to protest. At first, they talk about the r 1:33:24.640 --> 1:33:29.320 twop like the responsibility to protect, which is it doesn't 1:33:29.360 --> 1:33:32.679 matter to concept in international law that I've allowed someone 1:33:32.720 --> 1:33:37.400 to intervene, and like they thought, this is the international law, 1:33:37.479 --> 1:33:39.720 it's the world law, so someone's going to do it, 1:33:39.880 --> 1:33:42.880 and like no, you know, over the months that they 1:33:42.920 --> 1:33:45.800 were in the streets, over the thousands of deaths that 1:33:45.880 --> 1:33:49.840 they've seen now they've come to realize that that that 1:33:50.200 --> 1:33:52.240 law isn't there to protect them, that there's no one 1:33:52.280 --> 1:33:54.400 who's coming to save them, and that's led to them 1:33:54.439 --> 1:33:57.400 building a very unique and beautiful revolution. But at the 1:33:57.439 --> 1:34:01.200 same time it's costs thousands of innocent lives. It's heartbreaking 1:34:01.320 --> 1:34:05.360 to see their faith being misplaced in this institution. It 1:34:05.400 --> 1:34:06.160 doesn't care about it. 1:34:06.760 --> 1:34:08.840 We can talk very high and mighty about all these 1:34:08.960 --> 1:34:13.360 laws and whether in war or whether but refugees, but 1:34:13.880 --> 1:34:16.880 in the end, very often they just seem worth as 1:34:16.960 --> 1:34:19.840 much as the paper they're written on. Yeah, exactly, It's 1:34:19.880 --> 1:34:23.960 okay to become cynical after that realization. Yeah. So, while 1:34:24.000 --> 1:34:28.360 the conditions for migrants were getting noticeably more horrible in 1:34:28.439 --> 1:34:32.360 the aftermath of the twenty eleven intervention by NATO, it was, 1:34:32.600 --> 1:34:35.960 as we said earlier, by no means the start coulduff 1:34:35.960 --> 1:34:39.520 be very much used migration as leverage to gain concessions 1:34:39.560 --> 1:34:43.800 and standing among European governmental bodies. Exploitation of migrants was 1:34:43.880 --> 1:34:46.759 already reported by Human rights WROTS back in two thousand 1:34:46.800 --> 1:34:49.400 and nine in a similar vein the fact that the 1:34:49.640 --> 1:34:53.040 Libyan Coast Guard routinely picks up migrants in the international 1:34:53.120 --> 1:34:56.760 waters to return them to Libya has also been documented 1:34:56.800 --> 1:35:00.160 as early as two thousand and nine. How Frontecs is 1:35:00.240 --> 1:35:03.600 involved with that will get to that later. These processes 1:35:03.680 --> 1:35:06.479 and dynamics were very much already in play prior to 1:35:06.560 --> 1:35:11.320 Cadulphie meeting his maker. This kidnapping of migrants, because I 1:35:11.400 --> 1:35:14.120 don't think there's a better or a harsher word for it, 1:35:15.160 --> 1:35:19.280 is an explicit violation of international European and Italian law. 1:35:20.160 --> 1:35:25.000 Non reviolment, which is the principle in these laws, means 1:35:25.040 --> 1:35:28.080 that no refugee shall be returned or expelled to a 1:35:28.240 --> 1:35:32.639 territory against their will where their freedoms and life are threatened. 1:35:33.280 --> 1:35:38.200 From January first, twenty nineteen to June thirtieth, twenty twenty, 1:35:38.800 --> 1:35:42.840 Libya received sixty one point six million euros as part 1:35:42.880 --> 1:35:48.880 of the European Union Integrated Border Management Assistance Mission mandate, 1:35:49.400 --> 1:35:53.320 with an explicit focus on establishing state security structures in 1:35:53.360 --> 1:35:56.240 the country. Funding is meant to help stem migration to 1:35:56.320 --> 1:36:00.639 Europe with strengthening the border management, law enforcements and criminal 1:36:00.800 --> 1:36:04.080 justice systems of Libya. Emphasis is placed on disrupting the 1:36:04.160 --> 1:36:08.080 networks that operate the smuggling and trafficking of persons. We 1:36:08.520 --> 1:36:15.360 already discussed. These institutions are directly or indirectly contributing very 1:36:15.439 --> 1:36:20.400 often to the exploitation and enslaverment of refugees. So that's 1:36:20.479 --> 1:36:23.840 sixty one million euros that has indirectly gone through those 1:36:24.000 --> 1:36:29.000 very systems that enslave and torture people. Yeah. So the 1:36:29.120 --> 1:36:32.439 many liberal authorities often have direct links to militias or 1:36:32.520 --> 1:36:37.120 organized crime groups that engage in these practices. Authorities in 1:36:37.160 --> 1:36:40.320 the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Interior, the Department 1:36:40.400 --> 1:36:44.160 to Combat Irregular Migration, the Libyan Coast Guard, and the 1:36:44.240 --> 1:36:47.840 Special Deterrence Force have all been implicated. It has gotten 1:36:47.920 --> 1:36:50.679 so bad that even the Ministry of Defense employs Coast 1:36:50.720 --> 1:36:53.840 Guard units that are made up of militias who profit 1:36:54.000 --> 1:36:56.120 from these human rights abuses. Yeah. 1:36:56.920 --> 1:36:59.639 Fastical to think that like you could throw some money 1:36:59.680 --> 1:37:03.439 at this problem and not just like more empowered these people. 1:37:04.040 --> 1:37:07.760 Yes, it's even I think when we talked last year 1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:11.040 about this, I think Rose from Migrant mentioned it. But 1:37:11.560 --> 1:37:14.320 the Libyans get paid twice because first they get paid 1:37:14.400 --> 1:37:18.240 to make sure that to return these migrants back to Libya, 1:37:18.479 --> 1:37:21.200 but then they can also get paid for selling them 1:37:21.240 --> 1:37:24.400 into slavery. What do you even say to that. 1:37:24.960 --> 1:37:27.200 Yeah, I think it's genuinely unfavorable for a lot of 1:37:27.240 --> 1:37:29.799 people than twenty twenty five. People are absolutely being captured 1:37:29.960 --> 1:37:32.439 and sold into slavery. That is occurring. 1:37:32.720 --> 1:37:36.240 Yes, I've read some Human Rights Watch accounts of people 1:37:36.280 --> 1:37:40.200 who were imprisoned for sometimes years and then made to 1:37:40.320 --> 1:37:43.840 work in one way or another. For whoever ran that 1:37:44.000 --> 1:37:47.640 particular detention center and the one that I'm thinking of 1:37:47.800 --> 1:37:50.840 right now, after six years, I think that person was 1:37:50.920 --> 1:37:56.519 able to buy himself away from the authorities than his 1:37:56.720 --> 1:38:01.040 boat was captured within thirty minutes after he got off 1:38:01.080 --> 1:38:04.639 the boat, Libya got back to a different attention center 1:38:04.680 --> 1:38:07.040 where he spent four days, and I think after that 1:38:07.920 --> 1:38:10.760 he got another chance on the boat, and I think 1:38:10.800 --> 1:38:14.840 he was rescued by a volunteer or human rights organizations 1:38:15.320 --> 1:38:17.799 who are also patrolling the sea north of Libya. 1:38:18.080 --> 1:38:21.360 Yeah, we interviewed some of them talking of patrolling the seas. 1:38:22.040 --> 1:38:24.479 Maybe this is an advert for a boat. 1:38:25.240 --> 1:38:28.040 Yes, there will be a frontact at right now for 1:38:28.080 --> 1:38:29.280 all the European listeners. 1:38:29.840 --> 1:38:41.880 Yeah, yeah, all right, we are back. 1:38:42.360 --> 1:38:44.960 So we left off with just briefly mentioning how the 1:38:45.040 --> 1:38:48.559 Libyan state functions as part of this almost an organized 1:38:48.600 --> 1:38:52.360 crime syndicated profits from the abusive innocent people, and this 1:38:52.560 --> 1:38:56.080 is in a way not really surprising. Back in eighty five, 1:38:56.560 --> 1:39:00.600 academic Charles Tilly already argued that the states as a 1:39:00.720 --> 1:39:04.479 form of social organization, it's pretty much indistinguishable from an 1:39:04.560 --> 1:39:08.280 organized crime group. Yeah. I'll make sure that the sources 1:39:08.320 --> 1:39:11.400 in the description below if anyone is interested, But for 1:39:11.439 --> 1:39:13.559 those who don't want to read it, in very short, 1:39:13.920 --> 1:39:17.400 they're both major organizations over which you have very little control, 1:39:17.600 --> 1:39:20.080 and if you don't pay them the taxes or protection 1:39:20.240 --> 1:39:22.880 money that they want, then people will show up to 1:39:22.920 --> 1:39:27.720 break your legs. That's the two sentence explanation of that article. Yeah, 1:39:27.800 --> 1:39:31.559 I like that. After the principle of non refoulment has 1:39:31.760 --> 1:39:35.759 been violated, refugees are brought to detention centers in theory 1:39:35.920 --> 1:39:40.240 under the supervision of the DCIM. In practice, this does 1:39:40.320 --> 1:39:43.759 not hold up. There are no official or verified numbers 1:39:43.800 --> 1:39:46.679 of how many centers there are or how many people 1:39:46.720 --> 1:39:50.559 are even held captive. They are Libyan numbers, just somewhere 1:39:50.600 --> 1:39:55.040 between seventeen to thirty five facilities holding over seven thousand people. 1:39:55.640 --> 1:39:58.240 Human rights groups have questioned these numbers and argued that 1:39:58.360 --> 1:40:02.639 the number is likely between ten twenty thousands people being 1:40:02.720 --> 1:40:07.280 held captive. The reality is that we simply don't know. Yeah, 1:40:07.400 --> 1:40:10.320 we don't know exactly how many facilities there are to 1:40:10.400 --> 1:40:12.360 hold these people, and we don't know how many people 1:40:12.400 --> 1:40:17.479 are in them. Human rights watchers or UN delegates often 1:40:17.520 --> 1:40:20.000 don't get the full picture even if they go there 1:40:20.080 --> 1:40:24.960 to visit and inspect the places. There was one part 1:40:25.000 --> 1:40:27.479 of what I read where they would only be allowed 1:40:27.600 --> 1:40:30.880 during the day, but then at night is when most 1:40:30.920 --> 1:40:34.400 of the horrible stuff happens. Yeah, So still there's very 1:40:34.479 --> 1:40:37.800 much a process of trying to not show what is 1:40:37.880 --> 1:40:41.439 being done there. People in these detention centers are held 1:40:41.479 --> 1:40:46.040 indefinitely and lack any sort of legal processes or procedures 1:40:46.160 --> 1:40:50.639 to determine their status. In fact, according to a twenty 1:40:50.760 --> 1:40:54.840 nineteen RUN report, there is no official procedure to assess 1:40:54.840 --> 1:40:58.920 asylum status in Libya, meaning that in the legal sense, 1:40:59.040 --> 1:41:01.040 these categories absolutely meaningless. 1:41:01.200 --> 1:41:01.400 Yeah. 1:41:01.720 --> 1:41:03.439 On top of that, there's also a lack of a 1:41:03.600 --> 1:41:08.200 process for exiting entertainment, so that that's an entire procedure 1:41:08.240 --> 1:41:10.719 that is just done at the whim of whoever happens 1:41:10.760 --> 1:41:13.200 to control like that particular facility. 1:41:13.560 --> 1:41:15.880 Yeah, and that could be someone who has just like 1:41:16.840 --> 1:41:20.799 seized it by arms from whoever controlled it last, right, exactly. 1:41:20.880 --> 1:41:24.320 There's sometimes facilities are abandoned and they can become official. 1:41:24.920 --> 1:41:28.719 There's also been reports of the government rating like unofficial centers, 1:41:29.040 --> 1:41:32.599 but then recapturing those people and put them in official centers. 1:41:32.760 --> 1:41:34.280 Great, that'll make it better. 1:41:34.800 --> 1:41:37.799 It would be funny if it wasn't so fucking horrible. 1:41:38.479 --> 1:41:40.439 Yeah, Yeah, it's bleak. 1:41:40.960 --> 1:41:44.920 The DCM closed down five centers that had a history 1:41:45.000 --> 1:41:48.799 of human rights violations. This act, however, had little effect 1:41:48.880 --> 1:41:53.720 on holding abuses. Reports of beatings and torture continued as 1:41:53.800 --> 1:41:57.760 some official centers closed by the DCIM quickly became unofficial 1:41:57.840 --> 1:42:03.560 sites reopened and operated militia's. Yeah. For example, the Buisa 1:42:03.760 --> 1:42:08.080 Official Attention Center in Sawiya was ordered to close due 1:42:08.080 --> 1:42:11.320 to reports of sexual abuse taking place. He reopened a 1:42:11.400 --> 1:42:14.800 day later and operated under a new name managed by 1:42:15.080 --> 1:42:19.720 armed groups. DTAEE explanation was seamlessly transferred from official to 1:42:19.840 --> 1:42:23.960 unofficial banners, helping empower militants and criminal actors in the region. 1:42:24.800 --> 1:42:27.320 So we're now going to take a deeper look at 1:42:27.360 --> 1:42:32.360 these centers. I found an amazing article by Nadia aldayon 1:42:32.880 --> 1:42:38.640 Aaron Anfinson and Graham Anfinson in there, and James that 1:42:38.760 --> 1:42:43.120 this Israel the Journal of Human Trafficking, which is an 1:42:43.200 --> 1:42:45.360 actual academic journal that exists. 1:42:45.600 --> 1:42:48.599 Jesus, Yeah, I mean I guess. Yeah. If there's the thing, 1:42:48.720 --> 1:42:51.680 someone has written a PhD di station about it, it 1:42:51.800 --> 1:42:52.280 makes sense. 1:42:52.800 --> 1:42:55.679 I imagine this journal is just one or two articles 1:42:55.720 --> 1:42:58.360 and for the rest it's just pictures of Jeffrey Epstein 1:42:58.400 --> 1:43:04.800 and Andrew Tage, just back to back to back. Because ah, yeah, again, 1:43:05.160 --> 1:43:06.760 would would be funny if it. 1:43:06.920 --> 1:43:11.759 Wasn't so fu Yeah, yeah, I can't. I can't imagine 1:43:11.800 --> 1:43:14.040 working as an editor at the Journal of Human Trafficking 1:43:14.200 --> 1:43:16.600 is a job that like you have that is like 1:43:16.680 --> 1:43:20.320 the like the special Force selection cause of mental health. Yeah, 1:43:20.720 --> 1:43:22.680 like you you are facing all the challenges that can 1:43:22.720 --> 1:43:23.559 be thrown in a person. 1:43:23.960 --> 1:43:27.920 Oh yeah, I'm sure there's like a psychologist like on 1:43:28.120 --> 1:43:31.120 standby at the journal just to make sure like that 1:43:31.320 --> 1:43:34.960 that the people running guitar roll right. Yeah. So these 1:43:35.040 --> 1:43:39.200 academics distinguished between three types of centers, official meaning they 1:43:39.240 --> 1:43:41.160 are run by the state in so far as that 1:43:41.320 --> 1:43:44.759 means anything. Of course, then there are the two unofficial types, 1:43:45.000 --> 1:43:49.160 which I will call semi official and officious. Semi official 1:43:49.240 --> 1:43:53.200 centers are those run partially by state forces in cooperation 1:43:53.479 --> 1:43:58.240 with local groups, militias, or other non state actors. Official 1:43:58.360 --> 1:44:01.920 centers are those run entirely by non state forces. What 1:44:02.080 --> 1:44:06.080 conditions in official centers are air quotes better than the 1:44:06.200 --> 1:44:08.680 latter two. It's by no means a good place to be. 1:44:09.439 --> 1:44:12.479 None of these three categories are exempt from all the 1:44:12.600 --> 1:44:15.360 violence being done to people. All three have been named 1:44:15.360 --> 1:44:19.240 and implicated in abuses and violations. According to the authors, 1:44:19.320 --> 1:44:24.160 there are about twenty one official sites, twelve semi official, 1:44:24.720 --> 1:44:28.479 and twenty two of vicious sides, with one reportedly being 1:44:28.560 --> 1:44:32.519 run by ISIS in Naphalia back in twenty fifteen. Cool 1:44:33.640 --> 1:44:36.439 ISIS had a stronghold in Libya back in the day. 1:44:36.720 --> 1:44:37.200 Yeah, I did. 1:44:37.320 --> 1:44:40.400 Yeah, And the fact that ISIS might have been involved 1:44:40.439 --> 1:44:43.400 in human trafficking is the least surprising thing here. Yeah. 1:44:43.439 --> 1:44:45.800 I mean they were trafficking people into the Islamic State, 1:44:46.320 --> 1:44:49.280 into their what their so called caliphate, right, Yeah, this. 1:44:49.439 --> 1:44:52.400 Is progressed, and now trafficking people away from it. Yeah, 1:44:52.640 --> 1:44:55.360 this is a small victories. Of all these sites that 1:44:55.439 --> 1:44:59.240 I just mentioned, a remarkable amount is Intriqually, the capital 1:44:59.280 --> 1:45:03.240 of Libya. Sometimes these sites overlap with areas with known 1:45:03.280 --> 1:45:07.519 prostitution rings. The researchers found at least nine such networks, 1:45:07.960 --> 1:45:10.360 with the majority of the sex slaves being from Sub 1:45:10.400 --> 1:45:14.439 Saharan regions to East Africa. Jesus, they are mostly women, 1:45:14.640 --> 1:45:17.880 but it also happens to men. Libya has no laws 1:45:18.160 --> 1:45:22.360 or procedures to criminalize male sex trafficking, while man are 1:45:22.439 --> 1:45:25.759 still the minority. I do think it's worth mentioning. Yeah, absolutely, 1:45:26.160 --> 1:45:30.320 that is also something that happens and most likely underreported on. 1:45:30.520 --> 1:45:33.439 Yeah, I think it's something you'd really struggle, Like the 1:45:33.600 --> 1:45:38.040 nature of masculinity and like its toxicity makes it hard 1:45:38.120 --> 1:45:40.479 for people to come forward to you and say this 1:45:40.640 --> 1:45:41.280 is happening to. 1:45:41.360 --> 1:45:45.120 Me, right exactly, And it makes that that process becomes 1:45:45.200 --> 1:45:48.520 even harder if there is no legal framework to stand. 1:45:48.320 --> 1:45:51.080 On, yeah exactly, there's like there's nothing to say like 1:45:51.200 --> 1:45:53.759 this is that at least you can say what's happening 1:45:53.800 --> 1:45:56.600 to you is wrong. It's perceived as a crime, right, Like, 1:45:56.680 --> 1:46:00.560 if that's not there, it's no like, how can I 1:46:00.640 --> 1:46:03.280 support this person, Right, who do you direct that person to? 1:46:03.520 --> 1:46:07.200 Like exactly anybody who has been trafficked and forced into 1:46:07.280 --> 1:46:10.240 sex work, like, and I've spoken to migrants for whom 1:46:10.280 --> 1:46:12.680 that has been the case. Like, there's a great deal 1:46:12.720 --> 1:46:15.040 of stigma they have to overcome, which they shouldn't have to, Like, 1:46:15.120 --> 1:46:17.679 it's not none of what's happened to them is their choice, 1:46:18.240 --> 1:46:20.320 but it's very difficult for them to talk about it, 1:46:20.360 --> 1:46:24.639 and it's very unlikely for them to really be able 1:46:24.760 --> 1:46:27.680 to get any form of accountability for the people who 1:46:27.720 --> 1:46:28.280 did this to them. 1:46:28.280 --> 1:46:29.240 And that's in. 1:46:29.320 --> 1:46:32.800 Settings outside of Libya, like in Libya, fucking good luck, 1:46:32.880 --> 1:46:33.520 I imagine. 1:46:33.800 --> 1:46:37.240 Like, I think that's just a problem in general, not 1:46:37.479 --> 1:46:40.639 just in Libya. Yeah, it's arguably much worse than Libya. 1:46:40.760 --> 1:46:45.120 But yeah, even in countries that we're much more familiar with, 1:46:46.200 --> 1:46:49.280 this is happening, and it's still very hard to obtain 1:46:49.320 --> 1:46:53.960 the accountability from the perpetrators that any better world would 1:46:53.960 --> 1:46:57.040 be happening. Yeah, So I am now going to quote 1:46:57.040 --> 1:47:00.600 for the article for the next batch of horrors for 1:47:00.720 --> 1:47:04.560 women and girls. Various degrees of sexual violence were commonplace 1:47:05.200 --> 1:47:09.120 facilities that did allow some angio access barred visitations at night, 1:47:09.600 --> 1:47:14.240 which is when many severe abuses occurred. Detention center operators 1:47:14.320 --> 1:47:17.280 performed systemic rape on women and teenage girls on a 1:47:17.400 --> 1:47:22.200 nightly basis. Those that resisted were threatened with death. Others 1:47:22.280 --> 1:47:27.000 were killed by severe sexual assault and rape. Impregnations by 1:47:27.040 --> 1:47:32.400 the detention center of officials also occurred. So yeah, I'm 1:47:32.439 --> 1:47:36.200 going to briefly cite the accounts of someone who has 1:47:36.320 --> 1:47:41.800 been for that. Afni, which is a pseudonym. An eighteen 1:47:41.880 --> 1:47:45.080 year old Somali woman told me very softly that she 1:47:45.280 --> 1:47:47.960 was gang raped by smugglers multiple times near the end 1:47:48.040 --> 1:47:50.599 of the two years she spent confined in a smuggler 1:47:50.640 --> 1:47:54.439 warehouse in Kufra. Released from the warehouse and dispatched the 1:47:54.479 --> 1:47:58.200 Tripoli defend for herself. When she became pregnant, Aufne gave 1:47:58.240 --> 1:48:01.040 birth to a little girl, depending on handouts and help 1:48:01.080 --> 1:48:03.760 from strangers to survive. She told me that when she 1:48:03.880 --> 1:48:06.720 decided to attempt to see Crossing with her daughter, they 1:48:06.880 --> 1:48:10.120 ended up in another nightmarriage smuggler warehouse, where one of 1:48:10.160 --> 1:48:12.920 the smugglers refused to find food for her baby unless 1:48:12.960 --> 1:48:15.519 Afne had sex with him. Her daughter died when she 1:48:15.640 --> 1:48:16.479 was seven months old. 1:48:17.040 --> 1:48:21.559 God oh what a fucking leak thing. 1:48:21.840 --> 1:48:24.680 Yes, the entire article that that quote was frob is 1:48:25.240 --> 1:48:29.360 like rife with crimes like this. Yeah, right, is horrific stuff. 1:48:29.880 --> 1:48:32.439 I'll make sure that it's in the notes below if 1:48:32.960 --> 1:48:36.519 you would want to read that. Yeah, and absolutely no 1:48:36.680 --> 1:48:40.040 shame with people don't want to read this because it 1:48:40.240 --> 1:48:43.880 is fucked Yeah. Yeah, you didn't have to expect yourself 1:48:43.920 --> 1:48:47.639 to all this. You don't have to know every detail 1:48:47.680 --> 1:48:49.679 that is to care about people. I think it's okay 1:48:49.760 --> 1:48:54.760 not to read it. Yeah. Ah, so I want to 1:48:54.880 --> 1:48:59.479 close this particular censure budget brutally driving this point home. 1:48:59.520 --> 1:49:03.439 But like women and teenage girls are being raped to 1:49:03.560 --> 1:49:08.920 death over there on a systemic level. Yeah, and I'm 1:49:09.040 --> 1:49:11.559 fucking disgusted with the fact that the EU is still 1:49:12.160 --> 1:49:15.600 sending money there that is indirectly facilitating this. 1:49:16.560 --> 1:49:19.400 Yeah, I've mean fucking well, it gets on it's high 1:49:19.439 --> 1:49:22.360 horse about like gender and quality and women's rights and 1:49:22.439 --> 1:49:26.040 such things, and then like unless it's the inconvenient gender 1:49:26.040 --> 1:49:29.320 equality of migrants, right, or that the rights of migrants. 1:49:28.880 --> 1:49:32.400 Which yeah, I need a cigarette now. Fuck. 1:49:33.040 --> 1:49:35.599 It's the fucking worst thing that I deal with talking 1:49:35.640 --> 1:49:38.799 to people about work. It's like people who have survived 1:49:38.880 --> 1:49:43.560 sexual violence, or like people who can reasonably expect to 1:49:43.800 --> 1:49:47.320 encounter it and making this journey because they think that 1:49:47.439 --> 1:49:48.799 it's their only option anyway. 1:49:49.840 --> 1:49:53.759 Yeah, it's it's not that people who undertake this journey 1:49:53.800 --> 1:49:56.879 to a batel of life that they want are unaware 1:49:57.160 --> 1:49:57.960 of the risks. 1:49:58.360 --> 1:50:01.599 It's despite the risks that they're just doing it. Yeah, 1:50:01.920 --> 1:50:04.600 that's the same in the Americas, rightly, people understand that 1:50:04.720 --> 1:50:07.920 they're you know, I mentioned this in my Darien Gap episode, 1:50:07.960 --> 1:50:11.200 but very young children are subject to sexual violence, which 1:50:11.240 --> 1:50:15.599 also sometimes results in their death. Yeah, and like they 1:50:15.760 --> 1:50:20.000 understand that the world is at such an exaggerated level 1:50:20.040 --> 1:50:22.400 of inequality that people are willing to take those risks 1:50:22.560 --> 1:50:25.120 because that's the way the only way that they feel 1:50:25.200 --> 1:50:27.719 they can secure a safe future for their children. 1:50:28.160 --> 1:50:28.360 Yeah. 1:50:29.040 --> 1:50:31.519 It is a level of courage that I cannot fathom. 1:50:32.040 --> 1:50:32.760 Yeah, me need that. 1:50:33.200 --> 1:50:35.240 The best I could do was just acknowledge that I 1:50:35.920 --> 1:50:38.599 can't fathom it. But that's also like a very bitter 1:50:38.720 --> 1:50:39.519 built to swallow. 1:50:40.240 --> 1:50:43.400 Yeah, it is like I uh, you know, I attend 1:50:43.479 --> 1:50:47.400 wars for work sometimes, and the women who take on 1:50:47.920 --> 1:50:50.719 the migration, especially when not that men are not subect 1:50:50.760 --> 1:50:53.680 to sexual violence. Say ah, but it's probably more likely 1:50:53.800 --> 1:50:56.720 for women to experience it. The women who take on 1:50:56.840 --> 1:51:01.120 the migration journey alone or with their children. Those people's bravery, 1:51:01.439 --> 1:51:05.120 Like I can't fathom being that brain. I can't imagine 1:51:05.160 --> 1:51:08.759 how one can be that courageous dedicated to one's child. 1:51:09.600 --> 1:51:14.400 And we talked in our podcast recently about Primrose who 1:51:14.479 --> 1:51:17.400 came with her daughter, Like that's someone I'm still like 1:51:18.640 --> 1:51:21.160 just in awe of, you know, like you don't see 1:51:21.200 --> 1:51:27.320 that kind of courage and dedication and just like ability 1:51:27.520 --> 1:51:32.320 to push through things that are horrific with this goal 1:51:32.400 --> 1:51:35.560 in mind of reaching the United States, Like it's and 1:51:35.960 --> 1:51:38.400 it continues to be something that I struggled to find 1:51:38.439 --> 1:51:41.520 words to express obviously, but it's really something. 1:51:41.880 --> 1:51:46.360 I want to say something, but just speechless, Yeah much 1:51:46.479 --> 1:51:50.960 to say, you know who else should be speechless? 1:51:51.680 --> 1:51:55.080 Is it the products and services to support this podcast? 1:51:55.640 --> 1:51:58.360 I sure hope. So it's just two minutes of silence. 1:51:58.680 --> 1:52:00.679 Yeah, hopefully it'll just be a little moment for quiet 1:52:00.720 --> 1:52:12.920 contemplation for all of Yeah. There, all right, we're back. 1:52:13.000 --> 1:52:17.559 We've we've had a glass of water, and we're going 1:52:17.600 --> 1:52:19.040 to keep doing the podcast anyway. 1:52:20.360 --> 1:52:25.600 Yes, rehydrates a bit. Yeah. Yeah, so in terms of 1:52:26.040 --> 1:52:31.960 like explicit accounts, that was it. Okay, Yeah, so if 1:52:32.000 --> 1:52:34.439 someone had to skip over that part, that part of 1:52:34.479 --> 1:52:37.680 the episode should be done. You can start listening again. So, 1:52:38.120 --> 1:52:41.439 as of this recording, They're Missing Migrants Project who tracks 1:52:41.560 --> 1:52:46.639 migrant depths and those who become missing. Between our quotes, 1:52:47.120 --> 1:52:51.719 approximately thirty two thousand people are either dead or missing 1:52:51.840 --> 1:52:55.800 and presumed death in the Mediterranean that I have been 1:52:55.840 --> 1:53:01.080 confirmed Jesus. The overwhelming majority of these people drowned while 1:53:01.080 --> 1:53:04.640 attempting the crossing. Two five hundred and eighty two of 1:53:04.720 --> 1:53:08.680 these cases were registered in twenty twenty four. Last year, 1:53:09.520 --> 1:53:13.800 roughly seventy thousand people attempted the crossing, according to statistics 1:53:13.880 --> 1:53:16.640 from the European Commission. This may not appear as a 1:53:16.680 --> 1:53:20.639 lot of deaths compared to the crossings, but this figure 1:53:20.720 --> 1:53:24.320 does not take into account deaths on the journey towards 1:53:24.400 --> 1:53:27.360 the crossing. I was not able to verify how the 1:53:27.439 --> 1:53:30.320 number of seventy thousand was made up, as the EU 1:53:30.400 --> 1:53:33.599 website I got it from is a collection of data 1:53:33.680 --> 1:53:37.760 from different countries and agencies who register it. What do 1:53:37.800 --> 1:53:40.960 you think is safe to assume and let me emphasize 1:53:41.000 --> 1:53:46.640 assume here is that people captured by Italian multice cypriots 1:53:46.920 --> 1:53:52.280 or Libyan coastal authorities is included in this number, so 1:53:52.560 --> 1:53:54.639 that those are people who've attempted the crossing and then 1:53:54.760 --> 1:54:00.280 are taken back to Libya, possibly undertaking the journey again. Right, 1:54:00.760 --> 1:54:03.719 Because yeah, I know you've stressed this a few times, 1:54:03.840 --> 1:54:06.280 but a number one does not mean that it's just 1:54:06.360 --> 1:54:08.880 a single person. It can be the same person who 1:54:09.000 --> 1:54:10.800 tries to cross multiple times. 1:54:11.600 --> 1:54:15.200 Yeah, right, people will repeat crossings. I think we reach 1:54:15.280 --> 1:54:17.160 a point where the numbers are not and not that 1:54:17.439 --> 1:54:20.519 every point of these people is a person, right, But like, 1:54:21.080 --> 1:54:23.320 I wouldn't be any less pissed off if it was 1:54:23.400 --> 1:54:24.760 fifty thousand, Like. 1:54:25.080 --> 1:54:28.719 After a certain amount, it just becomes a number because 1:54:29.560 --> 1:54:32.240 we just can can't imagine how many people that is. 1:54:32.720 --> 1:54:35.360 Yeah, Like we shouldn't ever have to conceive a thirty 1:54:35.440 --> 1:54:38.520 two thousand people drowning, right, that it's not a thing 1:54:38.640 --> 1:54:41.840 that in the twenty first century that we should allow 1:54:41.920 --> 1:54:45.760 to happen as a society, and like, yeah, this shit, 1:54:45.920 --> 1:54:48.960 Like you know, I've participated mutilat along the border and 1:54:49.120 --> 1:54:53.440 very familiar with death at the border, but The scale 1:54:53.480 --> 1:54:56.880 of this is unfathomable even to someone who's spent a 1:54:56.920 --> 1:54:59.800 decent amount of time across the migrant trails of the Americas. 1:55:00.720 --> 1:55:03.800 Two thousand and five hundred two deaths in a year, like. 1:55:04.400 --> 1:55:05.320 That's a small village. 1:55:05.520 --> 1:55:06.480 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 1:55:06.680 --> 1:55:09.520 On the other yearly basis, yeah, it's a decent size 1:55:09.560 --> 1:55:13.560 city if you take that thirty two thousand number. 1:55:13.880 --> 1:55:17.800 Yeah, yeah, it's like a mid sized music festival of 1:55:17.920 --> 1:55:19.240 people who didn't need to die. 1:55:19.480 --> 1:55:24.000 Yes. I checked the website called Info Migrants, and they 1:55:24.200 --> 1:55:28.800 estimate that the Libyan Coast Guard alone has returned again. 1:55:28.880 --> 1:55:33.320 Air quotes around twenty one thousand migrants are caught during 1:55:33.360 --> 1:55:37.200 a crossing attempt, So the vast majority of these people 1:55:37.360 --> 1:55:40.760 end up back in the detention centers we discussed earlier. 1:55:41.400 --> 1:55:44.120 So that's around one for every three and a half 1:55:44.200 --> 1:55:45.320 people being captured. 1:55:45.840 --> 1:55:46.480 Jesus. 1:55:47.360 --> 1:55:50.960 Yeah. Yeah. There was at some point a video making 1:55:51.000 --> 1:55:54.920 the rounds, and it was this African woman on a boat, 1:55:55.160 --> 1:55:57.320 filmed with like a mobile phone, and she was just 1:55:57.680 --> 1:56:00.880 crying and she's just saying like, Hey, if the Libyan 1:56:00.960 --> 1:56:04.720 Coast God shows up, I'm jumping overboard. No way am 1:56:04.760 --> 1:56:05.640 I going back there? 1:56:06.280 --> 1:56:07.120 Yeah, I've seen that. 1:56:07.520 --> 1:56:10.280 That is one of those statements that I will immediately believe. 1:56:10.960 --> 1:56:11.160 Yeah. 1:56:11.680 --> 1:56:15.400 Yeah, people have self immolated in those detention centers like 1:56:16.440 --> 1:56:20.320 said is dead, misery and their desire for the world 1:56:20.400 --> 1:56:22.520 to see them. I guess I can understand why someone 1:56:22.560 --> 1:56:25.520 would just rather stop being so. 1:56:26.040 --> 1:56:30.120 The little calculation I just made that leaves us with 1:56:30.920 --> 1:56:35.640 forty nine thousand people making the crossing, of which eighty 1:56:35.680 --> 1:56:41.040 two diets, resulting in forty six thousand, four hundred people 1:56:41.240 --> 1:56:45.400 entering Europe through the Libyan roots. Again, these are approximations. 1:56:45.880 --> 1:56:50.240 More exact numbers will never know. Yeah. I tried to 1:56:50.320 --> 1:56:53.840 track money and expenditures a tiny bit to see how 1:56:53.920 --> 1:56:57.200 the EU is dealing with this. It's not one of 1:56:57.280 --> 1:56:59.720 my strong suits. I want to be upfront with that. 1:57:00.560 --> 1:57:03.040 I was able to find that between twenty twenty and 1:57:03.320 --> 1:57:06.920 twenty twenty three, THEEO granted at least one hundred and 1:57:06.960 --> 1:57:12.560 five million euro under the European Integrated Border Management Assistance Mission. 1:57:12.960 --> 1:57:15.160 This is money that is directly going to Libya for 1:57:15.280 --> 1:57:20.080 assistance in managing our border. This number does not include 1:57:20.120 --> 1:57:24.760 money directly or indirectly given to Libya from individual member 1:57:24.840 --> 1:57:29.240 states or from the budget of the Euse Border Agency FRONTACS. 1:57:29.920 --> 1:57:34.440 The latter has seen an absolute massive increase in their budgets. Yeah, 1:57:34.880 --> 1:57:38.320 from around two hundred and fifty billion in twenty sixteen 1:57:38.400 --> 1:57:43.240 to over eight hundred and forty billion in twenty twenty three. God. 1:57:44.040 --> 1:57:45.400 Yeah, that's a vast increase. 1:57:46.120 --> 1:57:50.960 Yes. And what's relatively recently been happening is that rather 1:57:51.080 --> 1:57:54.640 than have their own vessels in the sea, they are 1:57:55.760 --> 1:57:58.440 using air reconnaissance in the form of drones or other 1:57:59.000 --> 1:58:03.200 airborne vehicles spot spot boat boats or thingies with migrants, 1:58:03.680 --> 1:58:06.240 and then they give that information to the Libyan Coast 1:58:06.280 --> 1:58:09.920 Guard they can pick them up right. And this is 1:58:09.960 --> 1:58:14.320 where the eu IS, I would say, directly complicit in 1:58:14.560 --> 1:58:17.480 like the abuse that that that's happening in Libya. 1:58:17.880 --> 1:58:20.280 Yeah, I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. 1:58:20.480 --> 1:58:23.800 Because we know what it is likely to certainly going 1:58:23.840 --> 1:58:25.600 to happen to the people that are picked up by 1:58:25.640 --> 1:58:26.600 the Libyan Coast Guard. 1:58:27.480 --> 1:58:27.720 Yeah. 1:58:28.200 --> 1:58:31.200 And if you're saying, like Helebin coasted ALcom here pick 1:58:31.240 --> 1:58:33.720 up these people, you know what's going to happen to 1:58:33.880 --> 1:58:37.680 those people. Again, it's not good. And they keep doing 1:58:37.720 --> 1:58:40.800 it despite it being more than a decade of evidence 1:58:41.000 --> 1:58:42.919 at this point abusive migrants. 1:58:43.520 --> 1:58:46.680 Italy, in particular, as the country receives a lot of 1:58:46.880 --> 1:58:50.920 migrants from Mediterranean crossings, is keen on helping Libya in 1:58:51.000 --> 1:58:55.040 terms of training, material and funding. Additional agreements between the 1:58:55.040 --> 1:58:58.800 two countries shut another uncomfortable light on the dynamic. There 1:58:58.960 --> 1:59:03.200 was first the EU Libya slash Italy Libya Memorandum of 1:59:03.360 --> 1:59:09.600 Understanding signed in twenty seventeen. It saw an enhanced enhancement 1:59:09.680 --> 1:59:13.280 of military insecurity related to trying to prevent migrants from 1:59:13.880 --> 1:59:18.120 making a crossing advertently or inadvertently trying to make Libya 1:59:18.160 --> 1:59:22.400 their final stop and trap them there under the conditions 1:59:22.440 --> 1:59:26.160 that we just discussed. That agreement is a continuation of 1:59:26.240 --> 1:59:30.560 the Treaty on Friendship, Partnership and Corporation that was signed 1:59:30.600 --> 1:59:34.320 by Libya and Italy back in twenty eighth which described 1:59:34.320 --> 1:59:39.440 the corporation in detail VISV combating illegal migration from Libya 1:59:39.560 --> 1:59:42.840 to the EU. We also have the Multi Declaration from 1:59:42.960 --> 1:59:48.720 twenty seventeen, which only strengthened unbacked governmental organs within the EU, 1:59:49.360 --> 1:59:53.560 as well as a commitment to further assist Libya in training, 1:59:54.120 --> 1:59:57.400 in providing funding and technical assistance. Those are the main 1:59:57.440 --> 2:00:02.360 purposes of disagreements to prevent people from passing the prestigious 2:00:02.440 --> 2:00:06.640 gates of Fortress Europe, because politically, we'd rather add them 2:00:06.680 --> 2:00:09.920 to the mortar with which those walls are built Jesus. 2:00:10.240 --> 2:00:14.760 And it is these conditions that Washington ghouls thought would 2:00:14.760 --> 2:00:17.400 be a suitable place to send migrants to who do 2:00:17.520 --> 2:00:21.880 not speak the language, know the people have legal representation 2:00:22.480 --> 2:00:25.840 or assumably even have the money to do anything. We've 2:00:25.880 --> 2:00:28.040 barely spoken of the civil war that is still going 2:00:28.120 --> 2:00:31.280 on there, yeah, with like fighting in the capital of 2:00:31.320 --> 2:00:36.000 Troopoli happened like two weeks ago. We haven't spoken about 2:00:36.120 --> 2:00:39.880 any legal or law related issues that these people would 2:00:39.960 --> 2:00:43.680 invariably run into were they to be deported to Libya. 2:00:44.160 --> 2:00:48.560 It's the umpteen for example of colonialism, militarism from states, 2:00:48.960 --> 2:00:52.400 war wandering, and the transfer of problems to another place 2:00:52.720 --> 2:00:57.120 or to another generation. Very much like climate change, actions 2:00:57.200 --> 2:01:00.000 such as these will have immense direct and ripple effect 2:01:00.280 --> 2:01:04.000 that our children, anchorant children will learn the consequences of. 2:01:05.160 --> 2:01:09.400 And the last bit I've added because let's hope that 2:01:09.760 --> 2:01:12.920 no one is going to be sent Olivia from the States, 2:01:13.840 --> 2:01:17.120 but I can very much imagine that those people will 2:01:17.960 --> 2:01:21.040 face the same horrors that they will have to create 2:01:21.080 --> 2:01:25.480 their own little communities just to be able to get by. Yeah, 2:01:25.960 --> 2:01:30.760 I can imagine some people might might run into ISIS 2:01:30.840 --> 2:01:34.960 over there and become radicalized. We could also get like 2:01:35.200 --> 2:01:39.240 small pockets of people who just write a survived but 2:01:39.320 --> 2:01:42.160 are still stuck there and grow resentment. There is no 2:01:42.360 --> 2:01:46.240 real way to estimate what the consequences are going to 2:01:46.360 --> 2:01:50.640 be of deporting people there other than that like the 2:01:50.720 --> 2:01:53.880 cruelty is happening that Washington grules are aiming for. 2:01:54.520 --> 2:01:55.200 Yeah, exactly. 2:01:55.240 --> 2:01:57.040 I think that the point is to hurt these people 2:01:57.040 --> 2:01:59.400 as much as possible in the moment, and then there 2:01:59.480 --> 2:02:02.360 isn't really to a long term thought process beyond that. 2:02:02.640 --> 2:02:06.200 Like I guess I would like to say that people 2:02:06.320 --> 2:02:08.720 were enraged at the thought of the United States sending 2:02:08.760 --> 2:02:10.840 migrants to Libya, and they should be. I'm glad that 2:02:10.960 --> 2:02:13.720 they were, but they should also be in rage at 2:02:13.800 --> 2:02:19.240 the reality of the European Union doing it every single day. Yes, 2:02:19.800 --> 2:02:23.560 way more than twelve people, and like you should care 2:02:23.640 --> 2:02:26.520 about that too, especially if you're in Europe, like you know, 2:02:26.600 --> 2:02:30.440 obviously I am a person from Europe. I think it's easy, 2:02:31.160 --> 2:02:33.760 like for people to get this kind of smug social 2:02:33.880 --> 2:02:36.520 democracy kind of like, oh, look at the Americans, they're 2:02:36.520 --> 2:02:38.760 so fucked up. Not saying things a un fucked up 2:02:38.800 --> 2:02:41.040 here they are, but like the EU is doing some 2:02:41.320 --> 2:02:45.320 fucked up shit to migrants, and like people in Europe 2:02:45.360 --> 2:02:46.640 should be in the streets about that too. 2:02:46.920 --> 2:02:50.400 Definitely, this is just the biggest of all the issues. 2:02:50.480 --> 2:02:54.360 But there's also abuses and human rights violations happening in 2:02:54.400 --> 2:02:57.960 the Balkans for the people who take that crossing. There's 2:02:58.240 --> 2:03:01.800 people who try to cross from a rock quote to Spain. Yeah, 2:03:02.040 --> 2:03:06.320 who also encounter again, not as bad as the things 2:03:06.360 --> 2:03:08.880 we just talked about, but by no means good. 2:03:09.520 --> 2:03:10.960 Yes, definitely shouldn't be happening. 2:03:11.400 --> 2:03:13.480 I don't even want to use words like good or 2:03:13.560 --> 2:03:17.200 bad because like they tend to lose all meaning. Yeah, 2:03:17.560 --> 2:03:21.480 like less bad doesn't necessarily mean good. Yeah, that doesn't, 2:03:21.640 --> 2:03:24.480 it means less worse. And yeah, there are there are 2:03:24.560 --> 2:03:27.560 places to make that crossing that are less worse than Libya. 2:03:27.680 --> 2:03:31.680 But still, yeah, that doesn't mean any of it is desirable, yeah, 2:03:32.320 --> 2:03:35.040 or like that we should accept any of it. No, No, 2:03:35.680 --> 2:03:37.560 people should be fucking mad about all of this. 2:03:37.960 --> 2:03:40.760 And I also I would like to have to go 2:03:40.880 --> 2:03:42.640 back a little bit about what you said about like 2:03:43.200 --> 2:03:47.600 this buck European the social democracy. Yeah, like that's definitely 2:03:47.640 --> 2:03:52.680 an attitude that's not uncommon among Europeans. But then again, 2:03:52.880 --> 2:03:57.920 we very often fail to look into our own backyards. Yeah. 2:03:58.280 --> 2:04:02.800 And also Europe tends to be politically a few years 2:04:02.880 --> 2:04:05.760 behind the US. But we've also seen a rise in 2:04:06.240 --> 2:04:13.600 autocratic regimes like Victor Orbon. Yeah, massive example, Maloney and 2:04:13.760 --> 2:04:18.840 Italy is another one. But also in my own country 2:04:18.920 --> 2:04:22.280 of the Netherlands, they try to bypass parliament in order 2:04:22.400 --> 2:04:26.040 to make an emergency law to make sure that migrants 2:04:26.160 --> 2:04:29.560 wouldn't enter the Netherlands, And as we speak, they're threatening 2:04:29.680 --> 2:04:35.720 to stop the government formation if no stricter measures against 2:04:35.760 --> 2:04:36.880 migrants are being taken. 2:04:37.320 --> 2:04:37.560 Yeah. 2:04:38.040 --> 2:04:43.120 So it's these little seeds of like autocracy that are 2:04:43.440 --> 2:04:48.360 almost more worrying because it's these little steps that happen 2:04:48.640 --> 2:04:52.880 and before you know it, things are getting worse quick Yeah. 2:04:53.320 --> 2:04:56.080 Like, anyone who pays attention to the US can see 2:04:56.200 --> 2:05:00.440 that the vehicle on which fascism was delivered to us 2:05:01.360 --> 2:05:03.400 is being delivered to us. A better way of saying 2:05:03.440 --> 2:05:09.440 it is anti micro sentiment, right, Like that is how 2:05:10.080 --> 2:05:13.440 this country built the toolkit that is now being used. 2:05:14.160 --> 2:05:16.840 And you know, the rest of the world should pay 2:05:16.840 --> 2:05:18.960 attention to that, I hope. Yeah, we should see it 2:05:19.000 --> 2:05:22.960 as a warning sign, not as a manual. Yeah, that's 2:05:23.640 --> 2:05:26.440 a good weapon it Yeah, unfortunately it's being used as 2:05:26.480 --> 2:05:31.720 a manual by certain European governments. Yeah, so thank you 2:05:31.840 --> 2:05:36.480 for sharing that traumatic piece, for reporting that. I think 2:05:36.520 --> 2:05:37.520 that's that's rough. 2:05:38.640 --> 2:05:40.560 I would say you're welcome if it was. It's a 2:05:40.760 --> 2:05:45.160 fucking grim to say that at the end of all that. Yeah. No, 2:05:45.560 --> 2:05:48.240 I'm happy that I read a lot and put it together. 2:05:48.680 --> 2:05:50.480 I'm also going to have to find a puppy and 2:05:50.880 --> 2:05:54.280 cuddle the puppy for a few hours. Yeah. 2:05:54.640 --> 2:05:59.320 So yeah, that's all I have for now. Great, Yeah, 2:05:59.440 --> 2:06:01.080 that's all I got to Thank you very much. 2:06:23.960 --> 2:06:27.880 I ain't coming. That was a big one. 2:06:31.440 --> 2:06:34.240 Welcome back to It could Happen Here a podcast that 2:06:34.400 --> 2:06:39.000 was originally about the theoretical possibility of mass civil conflict 2:06:39.240 --> 2:06:43.800 and coming militarized authoritarian regime and is now about the 2:06:43.920 --> 2:06:48.440 reality of that happening to different communities at different speeds 2:06:48.520 --> 2:06:52.200 all around the country, and right now Los Angeles is 2:06:52.520 --> 2:06:53.320 where we're focused. 2:06:53.360 --> 2:06:53.400 On. 2:06:53.840 --> 2:06:56.240 Yeah, as you've probably heard from the news or from 2:06:56.280 --> 2:06:59.960 the episode we did earlier this week, Los Angeles, Californi 2:07:00.400 --> 2:07:04.000 has been in a state of what the president declared insurrection, 2:07:04.320 --> 2:07:08.000 where most people would declare fairly small protests based on 2:07:08.120 --> 2:07:10.240 the overall size of the city, topping out at maybe 2:07:10.400 --> 2:07:13.880 four to six thousand people on Sunday, and the President 2:07:14.000 --> 2:07:16.440 is called a National Guard, He's called in the Marines, 2:07:16.560 --> 2:07:19.160 and we called in James Stout to head up to 2:07:19.320 --> 2:07:21.440 Los Angeles and look at the scene. 2:07:21.600 --> 2:07:26.640 James, that's right, Yeah, the alternative to the United States 2:07:26.720 --> 2:07:29.400 Marine Corps. Yeah, so I've just got back from LA 2:07:29.640 --> 2:07:34.040 I was there on Monday night, obviously covering the protests. 2:07:34.360 --> 2:07:37.200 I got there mid morning, I guess. But at that 2:07:37.280 --> 2:07:41.040 point the SEIU were having a rally. Yeah. The rally 2:07:41.200 --> 2:07:43.720 was for the release of David Huerta, who was released 2:07:44.440 --> 2:07:47.320 on bail. I believe after that, not while the rally 2:07:47.440 --> 2:07:52.160 was going on, and from there, like I basically sort 2:07:52.200 --> 2:07:55.160 of started walking around downtown LA. I guess there was 2:07:55.240 --> 2:07:57.720 this really weird kind of phenomenon where you'd like go 2:07:57.960 --> 2:08:01.360 down to a place and you'd see one hundred people 2:08:01.960 --> 2:08:09.160 shouting cops, Feds, troops or some combination of the three. Right, 2:08:09.200 --> 2:08:12.520 pretty often around the Federal building, it's weird. At the 2:08:12.720 --> 2:08:15.520 front entrance, like where the entrance was, you had like 2:08:15.800 --> 2:08:19.000 a initial presence of the front line with National Guard 2:08:19.760 --> 2:08:23.840 with maybe it looked like it was maybe like NCOs 2:08:23.960 --> 2:08:28.560 or something. You had loaded service weapons, and then other 2:08:29.520 --> 2:08:32.600 soldiers had shields in it and like old school wooden 2:08:32.720 --> 2:08:35.600 button sticks, right, just just a long long ass stick. 2:08:35.720 --> 2:08:39.200 Basically around the other side you had LAPD at the 2:08:39.240 --> 2:08:43.360 front and National Guard behind them, and then across the 2:08:43.400 --> 2:08:46.800 street from that you had California Highway Patrol and their 2:08:46.920 --> 2:08:49.360 riot squad. And then in another location I think it 2:08:49.400 --> 2:08:51.440 was at City Hall, you had l a Sheriff's so 2:08:51.680 --> 2:08:56.040 like literally every agency that can claim any jurisdiction. Right, 2:08:56.080 --> 2:09:00.720 there was also a DHSRPF FPS like to literally every 2:09:00.800 --> 2:09:04.440 every federal and local agency that could send cops sent cops. 2:09:05.040 --> 2:09:06.720 It wouldn't surprise. 2:09:06.440 --> 2:09:08.720 Me to hear that there were more than a thousand cops, 2:09:08.880 --> 2:09:11.520 like maybe it was hundreds, But it was hard to 2:09:11.520 --> 2:09:14.480 get a handle on because every street you went down, 2:09:14.520 --> 2:09:16.960 every corner you turned, you ran into another wall of cops. 2:09:17.080 --> 2:09:21.000 Right with ten or fifteen cars behind them. They were 2:09:21.040 --> 2:09:23.840 constantly driving around until you know, I stayed until about 2:09:23.840 --> 2:09:26.840 two in the morning, and it's protest obviously, like as 2:09:26.880 --> 2:09:29.600 I'll explain later, kind of escalated, I guess, and as 2:09:29.640 --> 2:09:33.520 police violence escalated. In the evening, you'd see these convoys 2:09:33.560 --> 2:09:37.040 of cop cars just hauling ass through downtown periodically every 2:09:37.120 --> 2:09:40.760 hour or so, like running lights and sirens, like a 2:09:40.880 --> 2:09:44.600 dozen or so cop cars just booking it through downtown. Yeah, 2:09:44.840 --> 2:09:46.160 so it's very hard to get a sense of like 2:09:46.480 --> 2:09:48.560 who they are, what they were doing. They closed all 2:09:48.640 --> 2:09:52.080 the freeway entrances and exits, which like I took the 2:09:53.120 --> 2:09:55.400 I took the train up trying to be a mass 2:09:55.480 --> 2:09:57.800 transit enjoyer, and it made it a fucking nightmare to 2:09:57.840 --> 2:10:02.360 get anywhere, right, Yeah, that makes sense, Like anyone who 2:10:02.440 --> 2:10:05.400 lives or works in downtown LA will have experienced this already, 2:10:05.480 --> 2:10:08.800 but like it. And then throughout the fuck in the evening, right, 2:10:08.920 --> 2:10:11.120 you've got people coming up to you being like, hey, 2:10:11.520 --> 2:10:14.360 I live in little Tokyo. I can't get back because 2:10:14.360 --> 2:10:16.640 there's a wall of cops and they keep throwing tear gas. 2:10:16.680 --> 2:10:20.360 Relates any suggestions, Yeah, I can't get home. Yeah, Like 2:10:20.840 --> 2:10:23.760 and unfortunately, like you know, not much we can suggest. 2:10:24.400 --> 2:10:27.000 And then on top of that, because it's southern California, 2:10:27.520 --> 2:10:30.360 you know, the United States, really people who can't afford 2:10:30.400 --> 2:10:32.320 a place to live or sleeping on the street, and 2:10:33.200 --> 2:10:36.880 they're getting tas too, and they're getting flashbag too. I 2:10:36.920 --> 2:10:40.400 remember like we were up by LAPDHQ at one point 2:10:40.640 --> 2:10:43.880 and I seen this guy sleeping on a bench and 2:10:43.960 --> 2:10:46.200 the cops were pushing up the street and I was 2:10:46.360 --> 2:10:48.080 just trying to sort of take a position where I 2:10:48.080 --> 2:10:49.880 could take a photograph, you know, when I saw him sleeping, 2:10:49.920 --> 2:10:51.800 and I was like, oh, should I wait, wake this guy? 2:10:51.920 --> 2:10:53.160 You know, I don't want him to get a nasty 2:10:53.200 --> 2:10:56.640 surprise and wake up to a wall of robocops. And 2:10:56.720 --> 2:10:59.480 at that point the cops opened up with whatever they 2:10:59.480 --> 2:11:02.880 were shooting that time, forty milimeter, thirty seven milimeter. Yeah. 2:11:02.960 --> 2:11:04.520 Most of what I've hearded is like a mix of 2:11:04.520 --> 2:11:08.080 pepper balls and yeah forty milimeter yeah, yeah, grenades and 2:11:08.520 --> 2:11:09.240 rubber rounds. 2:11:09.560 --> 2:11:13.080 Some foam, Yeah, some foam. I found some Safari Land 2:11:13.160 --> 2:11:16.760 thirty seven milimeter foam casings on the ground. Oh nice. Yeah, 2:11:17.160 --> 2:11:20.440 And yeah, mostly what it was, you know, LPD have 2:11:20.560 --> 2:11:23.520 those green forty milimeters launchers with the eotex on top, 2:11:23.560 --> 2:11:26.040 and that was what yeah, looks down the barrel of 2:11:26.120 --> 2:11:29.600 a few times. And so if the evening went on right, 2:11:29.680 --> 2:11:32.720 you'd get larger groups and they become like, you know, 2:11:33.120 --> 2:11:36.000 more vocal, I guess in their protesting. At one point, 2:11:36.040 --> 2:11:39.800 people having like a street dance party. Occasionally people would 2:11:39.800 --> 2:11:42.800 would throw a firework or set off a firework, and 2:11:42.920 --> 2:11:47.680 then sporadically and like without really any clear kind of signal, 2:11:48.200 --> 2:11:50.800 at some point clearly the whole area was declared a 2:11:50.880 --> 2:11:53.400 lawful assembly. I'm guessing it's very hard to actually hear 2:11:53.640 --> 2:11:55.520 when they're saying stuff on the l rad unless it's 2:11:55.600 --> 2:11:59.360 directly like pointed at you. But I heard some signed 2:11:59.400 --> 2:12:01.360 kind of ol rat had an awful as MBI announcement 2:12:01.400 --> 2:12:05.440 at some point. And Yeah, Periodically you'd come around a 2:12:05.440 --> 2:12:07.280 three corner and be like one hundred hundred and fifty 2:12:07.320 --> 2:12:11.280 two hundred people protesting right, and then the cops would 2:12:11.640 --> 2:12:14.480 toss a flashbang or a tear gas, loose off a 2:12:14.560 --> 2:12:19.240 few rounds, push thirty yards and then stop and then 2:12:20.040 --> 2:12:23.960 do that again ten fifteen, twenty thirty minutes later, and 2:12:24.040 --> 2:12:25.800 they keep doing that, and then they push people back 2:12:25.880 --> 2:12:29.640 past these various buildings which had cops like stationed in place, 2:12:29.840 --> 2:12:32.400 like on the parapet of the building or on the 2:12:32.560 --> 2:12:35.640 courtyard outside, who would then also fire at them. So 2:12:35.880 --> 2:12:38.480 the protest never really got a chance to centralize. People 2:12:38.520 --> 2:12:40.680 didn't really get a chance to centralize in one place. 2:12:41.000 --> 2:12:44.040 And you know, like to have a sense of how 2:12:44.120 --> 2:12:47.400 many numbers of protesters there were was hard because every 2:12:47.480 --> 2:12:49.680 torny you turned, there were more people and there were 2:12:49.760 --> 2:12:53.640 more cops. So like it was a bit broken apart. 2:12:53.720 --> 2:12:56.080 And I think that was the goal of the policing 2:12:56.120 --> 2:12:59.120 operation right to flood the city, was cops to shut 2:12:59.160 --> 2:13:01.160 it all down, to make get hard to get there, yep, 2:13:01.440 --> 2:13:02.520 make it hard to gather there. 2:13:02.800 --> 2:13:05.520 I still don't get the sense. And this is what 2:13:05.600 --> 2:13:07.520 it sounds like from what you've said that most of 2:13:07.640 --> 2:13:10.680 what is being done effectively is not the National Guard 2:13:10.720 --> 2:13:12.000 and certainly not the Marines. 2:13:12.760 --> 2:13:14.720 It's the federal and local police. 2:13:15.240 --> 2:13:18.800 And their game plan here is if they assuming things 2:13:18.920 --> 2:13:22.200 calmed out in Los Angeles, which is probably the safe 2:13:22.240 --> 2:13:25.520 bet right now, every time they get over a certain 2:13:25.560 --> 2:13:28.120 threshold of protesters a couple of hundred one thousand or 2:13:28.160 --> 2:13:31.000 so in a city, you know, do the same thing, right, 2:13:31.320 --> 2:13:34.920 Like deploy the military national or federalized the national Guard, 2:13:35.000 --> 2:13:37.920 get them out there, right, like that's that's where they're headed. 2:13:38.360 --> 2:13:41.320 Yeah, I think so, Like I don't know if LA 2:13:41.360 --> 2:13:43.440 will back down, to be clear, Like LA's a city 2:13:43.560 --> 2:13:46.040 of what like like four million people. 2:13:46.040 --> 2:13:49.520 And eighteen nineteen million in the greater Los Angeles metro area. 2:13:49.800 --> 2:13:54.440 Yeah, like it's uh, I know right, Like I had 2:13:54.480 --> 2:13:56.520 these I had good conversations with a lot of people 2:13:56.520 --> 2:13:58.640 who are out there protesting. Want to go you to 2:13:58.680 --> 2:14:00.880 ad Like I said, we were really well were by everyone, 2:14:00.920 --> 2:14:03.320 which was nice. Like it wasn't the same crowd as 2:14:03.360 --> 2:14:05.280 folks I've seen in twenty twenty, Like no one was 2:14:05.320 --> 2:14:07.680 in black block, right of course, and then it was 2:14:07.880 --> 2:14:10.840 very young people and like a number of them approached 2:14:11.000 --> 2:14:12.920 I was for a time, I was with Charles McBride 2:14:13.280 --> 2:14:16.320 and like some other oh yeah yeah, colleagues and friends 2:14:16.400 --> 2:14:18.640 like people I've known for years. Right, we cover the 2:14:18.680 --> 2:14:20.840 same kind of shit, And people would come up to 2:14:20.960 --> 2:14:22.600 us and just be like, hey, it's good that you 2:14:22.640 --> 2:14:24.760 guys are here, thank you for staying here. After we 2:14:24.840 --> 2:14:27.600 got fucking tear guests, Like people should understand that was 2:14:27.680 --> 2:14:31.120 happening like the unprompted people would would come and say 2:14:31.160 --> 2:14:34.280 thank you, which was nice, you know, and like we 2:14:34.360 --> 2:14:37.840 didn't really face any any hostility for being there. But 2:14:38.040 --> 2:14:39.680 people when I spoke to them, like there was a 2:14:39.760 --> 2:14:41.440 lot of a lot of people I spoke to were 2:14:41.560 --> 2:14:44.800 very young, and they would say that they were the 2:14:44.920 --> 2:14:48.880 citizen kid of parents who either were you know, like 2:14:49.040 --> 2:14:52.640 permanent residents or visa holders or you know, they're very 2:14:52.840 --> 2:14:55.320 I'm sure some of them had undocumented parents. I can't 2:14:55.320 --> 2:14:57.240 remember speaking to anyone who said that, but I'm sure 2:14:57.280 --> 2:14:59.400 that given the numbers of people and the number of 2:14:59.480 --> 2:15:01.240 times I heard like, I'm the citizen child, so I 2:15:01.280 --> 2:15:04.880 should be here showing up for my family and my community. Right, Yeah, 2:15:04.920 --> 2:15:07.960 that makes sense. Yeah, And like it's gonna be hard 2:15:08.000 --> 2:15:11.720 to back those people down because they were fucking angry. Yeah, 2:15:12.080 --> 2:15:15.400 a real palpable sense of like fuck you would look 2:15:15.640 --> 2:15:20.400 very present throughout. People were also afraid, Like it's not 2:15:20.520 --> 2:15:23.520 people who are necessarily used to this, right, And like 2:15:23.640 --> 2:15:28.960 you said, the police response is an overwhelming use of violence, right, indiscriminately. 2:15:28.240 --> 2:15:30.440 Shooting it people from what what's the what's the furthest 2:15:30.480 --> 2:15:32.520 distance you were seeing them fire it people from. 2:15:33.000 --> 2:15:37.240 I mean I probably saw them taking one hundred meter shots, 2:15:37.280 --> 2:15:38.120 I'm guessing. 2:15:38.280 --> 2:15:40.440 Which is very long range for this sort of stuff. 2:15:40.720 --> 2:15:42.720 Yeah, I mean so at one point when we've got 2:15:42.800 --> 2:15:45.840 pushed back past the LAPDHQ there, they had the whole 2:15:46.120 --> 2:15:48.000 sort of front face of it, and they led off 2:15:48.160 --> 2:15:51.120 a bunch of shots towards myself and some others. I 2:15:51.480 --> 2:15:54.600 just sort of got down behind some cover there and 2:15:54.680 --> 2:15:56.920 started filming. And then there was a group of young 2:15:57.000 --> 2:15:59.280 people who were in one of those kind of classic 2:15:59.480 --> 2:16:03.440 LA three corner open quad more things. Yeah. So they're 2:16:03.480 --> 2:16:07.000 basically in a U shaped container right with only one 2:16:07.040 --> 2:16:11.680 way in and one way out, and right there's glass 2:16:12.080 --> 2:16:14.160 stores around it like that, you know, there's all the 2:16:14.200 --> 2:16:18.200 shopping bits people go shopping, and there's pillars in the middle, 2:16:18.800 --> 2:16:21.960 and the cops are just unloading from a distance of 2:16:22.000 --> 2:16:25.720 maybe one hundred meters from labd HQ. I think into 2:16:26.480 --> 2:16:28.840 these people who are effectively like in a like fish 2:16:28.880 --> 2:16:31.160 in a barrel right there, They're in a container where 2:16:31.160 --> 2:16:32.680 they is the only way out is the direction the 2:16:32.720 --> 2:16:35.560 cops are shooting from. There was a small outlet on 2:16:35.600 --> 2:16:38.040 the other side, which eventually they were able to take. 2:16:38.160 --> 2:16:40.080 That meant they had to cross across like a four 2:16:40.160 --> 2:16:43.680 lane road while being shot at by the cops, and 2:16:44.120 --> 2:16:46.160 the cops just kept shooting at them there, like it 2:16:46.240 --> 2:16:48.360 wasn't like they shot a couple of times that they 2:16:48.480 --> 2:16:52.959 clearly shot, reloaded, shot, reloaded, And I was filming from 2:16:52.959 --> 2:16:57.080 the other side, but you could see these projectiles whacking 2:16:57.160 --> 2:17:00.160 out like reinforced glass in the front of these business 2:17:00.360 --> 2:17:03.160 at head height, not breaking the glass and falling on 2:17:03.240 --> 2:17:06.400 the ground, punching a hole straight through. You know, they 2:17:06.480 --> 2:17:09.720 get coming with serious force even at that distance. And 2:17:09.920 --> 2:17:12.560 like those people weren't presenting a throat twenty one right, 2:17:12.680 --> 2:17:15.000 like like they had retreated into that building after the 2:17:15.080 --> 2:17:17.080 cops shot their first volley and the cubs just kept 2:17:17.120 --> 2:17:20.320 shooting at them. I saw a lot of that throughout 2:17:20.360 --> 2:17:23.280 the night, Like it didn't seem like, you know, anyone 2:17:23.400 --> 2:17:24.880 was like, Okay, now is the time for you guys 2:17:24.920 --> 2:17:27.560 to fire, you know, like they just just sporadic pot 2:17:27.640 --> 2:17:29.120 shots throughout the evening. 2:17:29.560 --> 2:17:32.920 Yeah, well, we're gonna continue talking about what's going on 2:17:33.000 --> 2:17:35.400 in Los Angeles and what we think is going to 2:17:35.480 --> 2:17:36.080 happen next. 2:17:36.280 --> 2:18:04.400 But first, here's some ads. Fuck and we're back. 2:18:05.160 --> 2:18:08.160 So if you read like the manuals these people are 2:18:08.200 --> 2:18:11.960 supposed to follow how they're supposed to utilize the riot 2:18:12.000 --> 2:18:14.800 control weapons that they use. There's a couple of things 2:18:14.879 --> 2:18:17.360 that you see. One of them is that there's supposed 2:18:17.360 --> 2:18:21.040 to be like a bladder of escalation before which they 2:18:21.160 --> 2:18:23.960 start utilizing force at range. And the other is that 2:18:24.040 --> 2:18:26.240 there's certain ways they're supposed to use these munitions, like, 2:18:26.320 --> 2:18:29.920 for example, you're not supposed to shoot people with rubber bullets. 2:18:29.959 --> 2:18:32.520 You're supposed to bounce them off of the ground and 2:18:32.640 --> 2:18:36.600 into people, because otherwise they're not really less than lethal. Yeah, 2:18:36.800 --> 2:18:38.680 we're seeing a lot of cases of people who've had 2:18:38.760 --> 2:18:40.920 at least several that I can count, I think three 2:18:41.080 --> 2:18:44.880 of people having surgically removed different like rubber and foam rounds, 2:18:45.040 --> 2:18:47.960 and it doesn't look like they're abiding by kind of 2:18:48.040 --> 2:18:51.560 any of the rules by which, per their own documentation, 2:18:51.720 --> 2:18:53.720 they're supposed to practice. 2:18:53.680 --> 2:18:56.080 Right, I mean, yeah, that's what I saw. 2:18:56.280 --> 2:18:58.520 Some of them even have ear techsic on their launches, 2:18:58.560 --> 2:19:00.280 which I don't know why you'd want an ear take 2:19:00.280 --> 2:19:01.600 if you were skipping it off the ground. 2:19:02.520 --> 2:19:02.880 I don't know. 2:19:03.000 --> 2:19:06.120 Maybe there's a different rounds they're using, but like, yeah, yeah, 2:19:06.280 --> 2:19:11.160 the overwhelming. What I saw was just like zero to 2:19:11.240 --> 2:19:14.280 one hundred, right, Like they'd push, they'd throw a TAA 2:19:14.320 --> 2:19:16.160 gass or a flash bang and then you just hear 2:19:16.200 --> 2:19:18.119 like pop pop pop pop pop pop pop. Yeah, there's 2:19:18.240 --> 2:19:21.480 a bunch of them unloaded, and like raising the forty 2:19:21.520 --> 2:19:24.000 milimeters launcher to the shoulder and pointing it to someone 2:19:24.080 --> 2:19:26.920 two feet away, Like like I saw a lot of that. Yeah, 2:19:27.120 --> 2:19:29.160 you know, we'd be going down the streets trying to 2:19:29.160 --> 2:19:31.000 find a different angle, trying to find where we could 2:19:31.040 --> 2:19:34.520 stand and do our jobs as press right and come 2:19:34.560 --> 2:19:37.120 around the corner and just just get forty milimeters pointed 2:19:37.160 --> 2:19:40.680 at you. I didn't see any skipping shit off the ground. Yeah, 2:19:40.800 --> 2:19:43.440 I did see businesses getting their windows punched out by 2:19:43.920 --> 2:19:46.520 things that the police were shooting at people like yeah, 2:19:46.600 --> 2:19:49.520 which I'm sure we're one not getting blamed on protesters. Yeah, yeah, 2:19:49.560 --> 2:19:52.200 exactly right. I Mean I saw CNN last night was 2:19:52.200 --> 2:19:54.560 picking up fucking phone but on rounds and being like 2:19:54.640 --> 2:19:56.840 these are what they're throwing at the cops, Like yeah, 2:19:57.760 --> 2:20:02.000 it just remarkable. I mean I did see L A. 2:20:02.160 --> 2:20:02.360 S D. 2:20:02.640 --> 2:20:06.840 And National Guard with rifles with magazines in the maguel 2:20:07.000 --> 2:20:08.600 and you know they had a round chamber. 2:20:08.640 --> 2:20:11.560 Doesn't matter, does it. No, you're a second away from 2:20:11.640 --> 2:20:13.199 chambering around, right exactly. 2:20:13.480 --> 2:20:16.680 Yeah, the IDF carries with an empty chamber and it 2:20:16.760 --> 2:20:18.160 hasn't stopped them killing a whole lot of. 2:20:18.120 --> 2:20:18.640 People, has it. 2:20:19.520 --> 2:20:24.320 The presence of lethal force was closer than I've seen before. 2:20:24.640 --> 2:20:24.840 Yeah. 2:20:25.400 --> 2:20:27.920 Look, I'm familiar with seeing overwatch at these things. Right, 2:20:28.040 --> 2:20:30.560 someone would what you would colloquially referred to as a 2:20:30.600 --> 2:20:33.760 sniper on a rooftop. But it's not overwatching if you're 2:20:33.800 --> 2:20:35.240 just in the back of a pickup truck with an 2:20:35.320 --> 2:20:38.880 M four right, look at it, an unmagnified optic, like 2:20:38.959 --> 2:20:41.320 you're not You're not over watching shit, you just have 2:20:41.920 --> 2:20:44.720 lethal force right there. And I saw that a number 2:20:44.720 --> 2:20:46.880 of times, right from the National Guard and then la 2:20:47.040 --> 2:20:50.040 SD they did the whole l rad like go home. 2:20:50.240 --> 2:20:52.640 It's been declared an an awful assembly thing. But then 2:20:52.760 --> 2:20:56.320 there wasn't that kind of scaled use of force that, 2:20:56.440 --> 2:20:58.640 like you say, it is supposed to be there. There 2:20:58.800 --> 2:21:02.200 wasn't really much in way of like we're going to 2:21:02.240 --> 2:21:05.000 start shooting now, and like, of course that means that 2:21:05.800 --> 2:21:08.440 if you're an unhoused person, if you've arrived at if 2:21:08.440 --> 2:21:10.720 you're if you're a local person just trying to get home, 2:21:11.160 --> 2:21:13.080 it's very possible you can just walk past and get 2:21:13.160 --> 2:21:16.320 tear guest. Like at one point, right they were opening up, 2:21:16.360 --> 2:21:17.920 and like I'd been looking for a place for use 2:21:17.959 --> 2:21:21.200 of bathroom for a while because fucking southern California, right, 2:21:21.280 --> 2:21:23.640 like there are no public bathrooms. 2:21:23.560 --> 2:21:26.560 Yes, which is you know, increasingly every major city. 2:21:27.000 --> 2:21:27.640 He was an issue. 2:21:27.680 --> 2:21:29.560 People got, people get arrested by the fence for like 2:21:29.640 --> 2:21:32.640 being on federal property in Portland. Great when like there 2:21:32.720 --> 2:21:33.720 was really nowhere else to go. 2:21:34.040 --> 2:21:37.960 Yeah, yeah exactly, and like some some kindly local guy 2:21:38.800 --> 2:21:41.040 invited us into his building and asked that, you know, 2:21:41.280 --> 2:21:44.520 let us use the bathroom. But yeah, then we stepped 2:21:44.560 --> 2:21:47.400 out and suddenly we're like confronted by cops again. Like, 2:21:48.160 --> 2:21:50.320 you know, I could have been someone who was there 2:21:50.440 --> 2:21:51.680 just going to have to get a size of pizza. 2:21:51.959 --> 2:21:52.160 Yeah. 2:21:52.600 --> 2:21:55.920 The force was like sporadic and unpredictable throughout the evening. 2:21:56.240 --> 2:21:59.080 And then as were these convoys of vehicles that would 2:21:59.160 --> 2:22:02.920 just come hauling as through downtown right obviously not you know, 2:22:03.000 --> 2:22:04.240 stopping at red lights, et cetera. 2:22:04.560 --> 2:22:05.000 It was weird. 2:22:05.120 --> 2:22:07.880 Sometimes a green light would happen. So the cars would 2:22:07.879 --> 2:22:10.560 start going like and then this cop convoy would come 2:22:10.600 --> 2:22:11.960 and some of them would turn right, and some of 2:22:12.040 --> 2:22:14.160 them would assume the cars would stop and go straight on. 2:22:14.640 --> 2:22:16.200 And so you had the situation where the cops were 2:22:16.240 --> 2:22:19.039 nearly hitting each other and it just like it seemed 2:22:19.280 --> 2:22:21.680 utterly chaotic and I don't know what they were doing 2:22:21.840 --> 2:22:24.760 other than driving around a high speed for fun. Once 2:22:24.879 --> 2:22:26.960 they did manage to kettle some groups of people right 2:22:27.040 --> 2:22:31.280 like they uh again, folks maybe who haven't been at 2:22:31.280 --> 2:22:33.560 these events before will not be familiar with the way 2:22:33.600 --> 2:22:36.200 these things work. But like the police would move in 2:22:36.280 --> 2:22:38.520 from both sides and then suddenly you're like, oh shit, 2:22:38.520 --> 2:22:40.880 there's nowhere to go. And then I did didn't put 2:22:40.959 --> 2:22:43.760 up in a school bus to take presumably to detain 2:22:43.879 --> 2:22:46.880 those people and take them to process them. But yeah, 2:22:47.040 --> 2:22:49.800 the tactics were like, I mean, it's their cops. Is 2:22:49.840 --> 2:22:51.800 what you expect that you know, we've both been doing 2:22:51.840 --> 2:22:54.200 this for a while. You expect them to use those 2:22:54.240 --> 2:22:56.160 weapons in the way they could inflict the most damage 2:22:56.160 --> 2:22:59.320 and harm to people. And unfortunately, like that does seem 2:22:59.320 --> 2:23:02.480 to be happening in Yeah, well, in terms of where 2:23:02.560 --> 2:23:06.879 things are right now. You know, Gavin Newsom is trying 2:23:06.920 --> 2:23:07.800 to thread the needle. 2:23:07.879 --> 2:23:11.280 It looks like between letting the LAPD do whatever they 2:23:11.440 --> 2:23:13.360 and he to be fair, I don't think he has 2:23:13.400 --> 2:23:16.160 any issue with people getting fucked up with right nussions 2:23:16.200 --> 2:23:22.240 what to do, while also not seeding responsibility for security 2:23:22.280 --> 2:23:24.360 of his state to the federal government, which has been 2:23:24.360 --> 2:23:25.959 an interesting line for him to walk. 2:23:26.640 --> 2:23:28.360 Yeah, I mean his stance seems to be like, the 2:23:28.520 --> 2:23:31.039 LAPD can fuck up these kids, just fine, we don't 2:23:31.400 --> 2:23:32.199 need your help. 2:23:32.560 --> 2:23:35.960 Yes, which I mean they literally can, Like I will say, yeah, 2:23:36.360 --> 2:23:39.840 that's not incorrect, right, I'm not talking at a moral level. 2:23:39.879 --> 2:23:42.720 I'm just saying, like, yes, the LAPED has sufficient force 2:23:42.800 --> 2:23:45.440 for the protests that have been that have existed. 2:23:46.320 --> 2:23:48.680 Yeah, I mean the LAPD then the first Nights who 2:23:48.680 --> 2:23:51.160 are caught off God, I think right. 2:23:51.320 --> 2:23:53.960 And so was Ice, And there was a lot of 2:23:54.040 --> 2:23:56.600 debate about because, like you know, LAPED not coming in 2:23:56.680 --> 2:24:00.120 initially to support ICE when they got surrounded, like and 2:24:00.480 --> 2:24:02.320 that's those are the kind of things you get when 2:24:02.600 --> 2:24:06.039 the authorities are taken off balance. But if the numbers 2:24:06.040 --> 2:24:08.600 don't keep increasing, you know, and they have to increase 2:24:08.600 --> 2:24:12.520 pretty exponentially as they move in, you know, federal agents 2:24:12.520 --> 2:24:14.840 in the National Guard and mobilize the whole police force 2:24:14.879 --> 2:24:15.080 in a. 2:24:15.080 --> 2:24:15.840 City like LA. 2:24:16.560 --> 2:24:21.200 Then this situation becomes basically impossible for protesters to regain 2:24:21.240 --> 2:24:23.560 the initiative. And I don't know if i'd say it's 2:24:23.560 --> 2:24:26.680 impossible right now, but unless there's some sort of like 2:24:26.920 --> 2:24:30.360 massive sea changes, what's happening that does seem kind of 2:24:30.440 --> 2:24:32.520 like where things are going to go. And to be clear, 2:24:32.560 --> 2:24:38.680 here we're talking about primarily Compton Paramount some protests, and 2:24:38.720 --> 2:24:41.200 then downtown Los Angeles some protests. There's a handful of 2:24:41.240 --> 2:24:43.920 city blocks and one of the largest metro areas in 2:24:44.000 --> 2:24:49.720 the entire country. This is not Los Angeles all collapsed. 2:24:49.480 --> 2:24:49.640 You know. 2:24:50.200 --> 2:24:53.440 Yeah, it's not like the rights to could after after 2:24:53.520 --> 2:24:56.560 ruddy king right, right, right, not not even a little 2:24:56.560 --> 2:25:00.959 bit yeah yet right, like yeah, I mean people are 2:25:01.000 --> 2:25:04.440 pissed off obviously, like and maybe they're you know, will 2:25:04.440 --> 2:25:06.080 you'll get that sort of thing you had in Portland, 2:25:06.160 --> 2:25:09.760 right where more people came as the protest continued, and 2:25:09.840 --> 2:25:12.440 as more and more FEDS turned up, Like there were 2:25:12.480 --> 2:25:14.200 people who might not have showed up at first, just 2:25:14.280 --> 2:25:17.640 being like upset at the presence of Feds in their city. 2:25:18.160 --> 2:25:20.920 I don't know, but yeah, it seems like right now 2:25:21.040 --> 2:25:23.520 that their move is to flood the city. I mean, 2:25:24.440 --> 2:25:27.360 crazy volumes of cops shouting all the exits on the 2:25:27.400 --> 2:25:31.520 one ten today. Yeah, National Guard, Like the National Guard 2:25:31.600 --> 2:25:34.560 folks were mostly around the Federal building from what I saw, 2:25:34.680 --> 2:25:38.640 but like just a huge volume of cubs and no 2:25:38.879 --> 2:25:42.520 particular plan other than a vast number of police. And 2:25:42.680 --> 2:25:46.640 I guess, you know, massive detentions, massive use of riot munitions, 2:25:46.800 --> 2:25:51.160 massive use of violence to dissuade protest. But then I've 2:25:51.200 --> 2:25:55.119 seen like obviously it's interesting, right, like, and I'm sure 2:25:55.120 --> 2:25:58.199 you've experienced this, Robert, Like you can be like nose 2:25:58.440 --> 2:26:01.400 to the to the grindstone in a conflict zone or 2:26:01.560 --> 2:26:04.280 at a protest and other clue what's happening, and I 2:26:04.360 --> 2:26:06.400 have to go on a Twitter or a blue Sky 2:26:06.520 --> 2:26:07.680 to work out what the fuck's going on? 2:26:07.879 --> 2:26:09.840 Right, you can tell kind of what's happening in front 2:26:09.879 --> 2:26:13.119 of you, and even then that you sometimes see something 2:26:13.320 --> 2:26:15.360 or you're looking left and the thing happens on the right, 2:26:15.400 --> 2:26:17.320 and you get three different stories about what happened. 2:26:17.480 --> 2:26:19.920 Yeah, totally, and so like you know, you know, we 2:26:20.560 --> 2:26:23.920 found out David Twitter had been released when me I 2:26:24.000 --> 2:26:27.320 sent a message saying that, like, right, and then likewise, 2:26:27.440 --> 2:26:29.119 folks for finding out that they are protests in other 2:26:29.200 --> 2:26:31.880 areas of the country, which you know is always I think, 2:26:31.920 --> 2:26:35.880 gives a little morale boost. Yeah, so like there's a chance. 2:26:36.280 --> 2:26:37.880 I mean I'm seeing more and more I sort of 2:26:37.879 --> 2:26:40.760 big protest in New York tonight. They can't deploy the 2:26:40.840 --> 2:26:43.120 Marines everywhere. I mean, right there, there are a lot 2:26:43.160 --> 2:26:44.480 of marines, but not that many. 2:26:44.920 --> 2:26:45.160 I know. 2:26:45.480 --> 2:26:48.680 It's in one sense, like and I know that this 2:26:48.840 --> 2:26:54.880 is maybe a strange opinion or stance or what have you, 2:26:55.080 --> 2:26:58.440 but like, in a sense, it gives me hope to 2:26:58.600 --> 2:27:02.280 see these things like at a protest or you know, 2:27:02.520 --> 2:27:05.480 like a big action like that. Like I always feel 2:27:05.560 --> 2:27:07.920 kind of very cared for and in a strange way 2:27:08.000 --> 2:27:11.160 because like the only thing that matters is taking care 2:27:11.480 --> 2:27:14.040 of each other, right, and trying trying not to get hurt, 2:27:14.080 --> 2:27:16.320 and then for folks who are in the street to 2:27:16.360 --> 2:27:19.560 try and remain there, right, And like it's quite a 2:27:20.280 --> 2:27:23.440 like you have this kind of disaster community, right, the 2:27:23.480 --> 2:27:25.600 same thing that you sometimes find in conflict zones or 2:27:25.600 --> 2:27:28.840 after natural disasters, and like, right, It's always beautiful to 2:27:28.879 --> 2:27:32.040 see that, right, Like, you know, I'm vegan and I 2:27:32.080 --> 2:27:35.600 could not find any fucking vegan food for a while, 2:27:35.680 --> 2:27:38.720 and like people were bringing me snacks and I thought 2:27:38.760 --> 2:27:41.760 that was really sweet, and like, you know, I saw 2:27:41.879 --> 2:27:44.680 people taking care of strangers when they got tear gass, 2:27:44.920 --> 2:27:47.000 or taking care of strangers when they get shot, or 2:27:47.200 --> 2:27:50.360 like just folks who have bought snacks and like wanted 2:27:50.400 --> 2:27:52.720 to give them to one house people who were there, right, 2:27:52.879 --> 2:27:55.760 So all that stuff is just a reminder that like 2:27:56.400 --> 2:27:58.640 you know, like actually, you know, if you were consuming 2:27:58.720 --> 2:28:00.840 this through the fucking New York Times, right, you'd think 2:28:00.879 --> 2:28:02.960 that people were looting and burning the city. And I 2:28:03.040 --> 2:28:05.680 idn't see anyone to steal shit. I did see people 2:28:05.760 --> 2:28:08.800 take care of one another. Yeah, and that's a beautiful thing. 2:28:09.160 --> 2:28:11.880 And you know, maybe people need to be in the 2:28:11.959 --> 2:28:14.680 streets to find one another right now, because you know, 2:28:14.800 --> 2:28:20.440 every every year people it gets harder to go outside, 2:28:20.520 --> 2:28:24.200 easier to stay on the internet, right, people get more adomized. Yeah, 2:28:24.360 --> 2:28:27.840 and like it was cool to see like young Mexican folks, 2:28:27.920 --> 2:28:31.080 young Salvadorean folks, ateml and you know, people have different 2:28:31.200 --> 2:28:34.960 extractions who are now Americans and in addition obviously to 2:28:35.320 --> 2:28:38.680 their I think identities and backgrounds showing up and then 2:28:38.800 --> 2:28:41.760 like young black folks showing up with them and being like, yeah, 2:28:41.879 --> 2:28:44.880 you know, like fuck the police, and like it was 2:28:44.959 --> 2:28:47.280 cool to see maybe folks who are a little bit 2:28:47.280 --> 2:28:49.640 more liberal, like I definitely had folks who are like, oh, 2:28:49.680 --> 2:28:51.400 we're not here for the riot. We're just here for 2:28:51.520 --> 2:28:54.080 the peaceful protest in so much as you know, and 2:28:54.160 --> 2:28:55.640 no one wants to get shot in the face with 2:28:55.720 --> 2:28:57.760 a forty millimeter, right, no one. No one's there to no, 2:28:58.160 --> 2:29:01.560 absolutely not. And so it's cool to see those people 2:29:01.640 --> 2:29:05.240 making those connections. And we need to make those connections now, right, 2:29:05.280 --> 2:29:07.600 We need to talk to people and talk to each other. 2:29:08.400 --> 2:29:11.360 I didn't see people beefing with each other. I didn't 2:29:11.800 --> 2:29:15.400 really see the like optics police, right, if you were again, 2:29:15.440 --> 2:29:17.720 if you were consuming this on the fucking blue sky, 2:29:18.600 --> 2:29:22.840 which can be intolerably libs sometimes like seeing people being like, 2:29:22.959 --> 2:29:25.160 you know, because I personally disagree with the optics of 2:29:25.200 --> 2:29:28.600 this one person's decision, the whole protest is therefore flawed. Yeah, 2:29:28.640 --> 2:29:30.760 the whole protest as fuck, And let's just let I 2:29:30.879 --> 2:29:34.600 steal their fucking children, Like, yeah, people letting people be 2:29:34.959 --> 2:29:37.800 and deal with the consequences their own actions instead of 2:29:37.840 --> 2:29:38.640 being condescending. 2:29:39.040 --> 2:29:41.760 Now, and I mean I'm looking at Twitter right now 2:29:41.920 --> 2:29:44.480 where half of the comments are about someone who drove 2:29:44.600 --> 2:29:48.240 through a crowd in LA and people either this is 2:29:48.280 --> 2:29:51.240 what happens when America gets fed up? Or what other 2:29:51.320 --> 2:29:53.480 option did he have? You know, you're getting a mix 2:29:53.560 --> 2:29:54.320 of that sort of thing. 2:29:54.680 --> 2:29:58.240 Yeah, shit, are people okay? Like I'm not. 2:29:58.280 --> 2:30:02.440 Aware of any like serious injuries fatalities, certainly, but yeah, 2:30:02.680 --> 2:30:06.800 yeah that was the other weird thing, like vehicles throughout 2:30:06.879 --> 2:30:09.760 that means LA everyone's driving all the time, but there 2:30:09.800 --> 2:30:15.040 were vehicles like constantly just moving through yep. Yeah, No, 2:30:15.080 --> 2:30:16.959 it's LA rights with people coming out to do their 2:30:17.040 --> 2:30:20.440 donuts and stuff. But like it is a risk, like 2:30:20.520 --> 2:30:23.440 if someone we've shared a car bomb, brother, but yeah, 2:30:23.520 --> 2:30:26.640 oh yeah, we sure did. I've seen a few car bombs. 2:30:27.040 --> 2:30:28.880 It always freaks me out. We need a big crowd 2:30:29.000 --> 2:30:31.000 like that, and then you've got these cars around like 2:30:31.760 --> 2:30:35.520 the potential for vehicular violence. Yeah, it's not great. Yeah again, right, 2:30:35.560 --> 2:30:38.200 we have the quote unquote public safety forces deployed in 2:30:38.280 --> 2:30:40.280 massive numbers, and no one's no one's stopping that. 2:30:40.879 --> 2:30:43.879 No, And you know, also just a note to people, 2:30:43.959 --> 2:30:47.720 the only realistic way to stop cars in this situation 2:30:47.959 --> 2:30:50.520 is with a barrier made of other cars. Right is 2:30:50.879 --> 2:30:54.040 you block off the route of march with vehicles. There's 2:30:54.080 --> 2:30:58.000 no other realistic tool at your disposal as somebody who's 2:30:58.080 --> 2:31:00.440 part of a protest to stop a full ass vehicle. 2:31:01.440 --> 2:31:03.800 We're gonna talk a little bit more with a couple 2:31:03.840 --> 2:31:05.720 of updates from the ground and then close out. 2:31:05.840 --> 2:31:07.800 But first here's our last bit of ads. 2:31:21.360 --> 2:31:24.360 Oh go not for good. No, they're gonna be go 2:31:25.040 --> 2:31:25.400 not not. 2:31:27.200 --> 2:31:30.480 Not do the same. 2:31:30.800 --> 2:31:35.400 Your your baby's gonna be taken away. 2:31:35.920 --> 2:31:37.920 That's not how that's. 2:31:39.440 --> 2:31:40.720 Hide there. 2:31:46.400 --> 2:31:47.720 So we're back in James. 2:31:47.879 --> 2:31:51.000 While you were leaving, the Mayor of Los Angeles declared 2:31:51.080 --> 2:31:54.280 a curfew in place from eight pm to six a m. 2:31:54.959 --> 2:31:58.360 For the one ten to the west, I five to 2:31:58.640 --> 2:32:01.960 the east, out, one ten to south, I five and 2:32:02.080 --> 2:32:04.800 one ten to north. This is from the public safety 2:32:04.800 --> 2:32:08.560 alert texted out to people in Los Angeles. So people 2:32:08.640 --> 2:32:11.080 are allowed to travel to and from work, to seek 2:32:11.320 --> 2:32:15.800 or to give emergency care ems. People are exempt. No 2:32:15.879 --> 2:32:18.840 one else is exempt as far as I'm aware. But yeah, 2:32:18.920 --> 2:32:22.000 that's that's the situation. So part of why Mayor Karen 2:32:22.040 --> 2:32:25.000 Bass is issue at curfew is that it gives the 2:32:25.080 --> 2:32:28.959 police extra kind of freedom to take people into custody, 2:32:29.120 --> 2:32:29.760 right yeah. 2:32:29.800 --> 2:32:32.920 Oh, credential media are exempt. Yeah, that's what I was told. 2:32:33.080 --> 2:32:36.040 Yeah, people too, and from work. Credential media, emergency and 2:32:36.080 --> 2:32:40.040 medical personnel law enforcement are the limited exemptions. So that's 2:32:40.320 --> 2:32:41.680 what we've got going on right now. 2:32:41.959 --> 2:32:42.160 Yeah. 2:32:42.160 --> 2:32:43.920 And if you are at their working as a journalists, 2:32:43.959 --> 2:32:46.400 like it's important to carry your press pass right oh yeah, yeah, 2:32:46.720 --> 2:32:49.840 we'll stop you from getting shot with impact munitions because 2:32:49.840 --> 2:32:52.240 they've done that to a lot of people. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, 2:32:52.280 --> 2:32:54.720 And like you know, I had a large blue press 2:32:55.000 --> 2:32:58.080 badge on my play carrier like I always do, and like, yeah, 2:32:58.400 --> 2:33:01.800 it's not doesn't make you bulletproof. Yeah, there's a curfew tonight, which, 2:33:01.879 --> 2:33:04.200 like you say, just gives them the means to use 2:33:04.360 --> 2:33:07.640 more coercive force and to charge people more harshly. They'll 2:33:07.680 --> 2:33:11.840 continue doing that. Helicopter shit, right, they had probably four 2:33:11.920 --> 2:33:12.800 or five helicopters. 2:33:13.160 --> 2:33:15.680 They really love putting them out in LA and especially 2:33:15.720 --> 2:33:17.520 now that they got the military. Yeah. 2:33:17.640 --> 2:33:20.680 Man, it had a real kind of blade run of 2:33:20.800 --> 2:33:23.240 vibe to be in this dark city at night with 2:33:23.360 --> 2:33:28.000 these helicopter circling spotlighting people from above, and like little 2:33:28.080 --> 2:33:32.360 fires happening across the city and then occasional clouds of 2:33:32.560 --> 2:33:35.720 like spicy air floating towards you. I have seen since 2:33:35.720 --> 2:33:38.840 speculation that they were using some kind of other chemical 2:33:38.920 --> 2:33:42.680 irritant instead of tear gas. I think that the most 2:33:43.080 --> 2:33:45.640 likely explanation is just they were using tear gas that 2:33:45.800 --> 2:33:46.280 was older. 2:33:46.560 --> 2:33:49.040 Yeah, it tastes different when it's older. The shit the 2:33:49.120 --> 2:33:51.960 FEDS US is often different from the shit state or 2:33:52.040 --> 2:33:55.160 local police use, like yeah, you know, you get different 2:33:55.200 --> 2:33:58.640 sort of mixes, but I'm not aware, like it's I'm 2:33:58.680 --> 2:34:00.320 certain it's just tear gas, right. 2:34:00.400 --> 2:34:02.640 Yeah, yeah, I think it's just a bit different. 2:34:02.760 --> 2:34:05.720 Yeah, different variants in ages of ta gas and sometimes 2:34:05.720 --> 2:34:08.200 they've take on different appearances too. And they weren't really 2:34:08.280 --> 2:34:11.080 fogging the tar gas, not that I saw. They were 2:34:11.120 --> 2:34:13.760 just tossing tossing out the grenades. You didn't get that 2:34:13.879 --> 2:34:15.680 like wall of tear gas that you guys. 2:34:15.520 --> 2:34:16.800 Are familiar with in Portland. 2:34:17.080 --> 2:34:19.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it took on like the 2:34:19.640 --> 2:34:22.480 protest athetic, Like I didn't see as many people with 2:34:23.000 --> 2:34:29.000 half masks or hard hats or goggles, any of that stuff. 2:34:29.040 --> 2:34:32.680 So like, yeah, and in one sense, people it's great 2:34:32.720 --> 2:34:36.440 to see people coming out and like engaging their right 2:34:36.640 --> 2:34:39.760 to protest. Yeah, and coming from where they are as 2:34:39.800 --> 2:34:42.480 they are showing up to show out for something, leaving 2:34:42.600 --> 2:34:43.280 work or whatever. 2:34:43.640 --> 2:34:45.680 Yeah, yeah, it makes me worried for them. 2:34:46.120 --> 2:34:50.280 Yeah, Like you know, I'm they're around the block a 2:34:50.320 --> 2:34:51.720 few times, and I'm worried that people are going to 2:34:51.760 --> 2:34:52.320 get fucked up. 2:34:53.040 --> 2:34:57.000 So, yeah, it's curfew tonight. It's curfew tonight. There's still 2:34:57.200 --> 2:34:59.480 marine numbers are still at around seven hundred. There's about 2:34:59.480 --> 2:35:02.199 four thousand National Guard troops, so the number of military 2:35:02.280 --> 2:35:06.400 deployed significantly outnumbers demonstrators at this point. Mayor care and 2:35:06.480 --> 2:35:09.240 Bass has stated that or or Sorry. The Pentagon has 2:35:09.280 --> 2:35:11.480 stated it's costing about one hundred and thirty four million 2:35:11.560 --> 2:35:16.440 dollars this deployment. So jesus man, Yeah, it's it's it's 2:35:16.640 --> 2:35:18.960 like I'd say, it's it's not a pointless escalation. The 2:35:18.959 --> 2:35:20.880 point of the escalation is that they want to keep 2:35:21.000 --> 2:35:23.240 using the military, right, Yeah, definitely. 2:35:23.840 --> 2:35:28.120 Yeah, and to sort of establish a precedent that domestic 2:35:28.280 --> 2:35:31.560 unrest could be dealt with by the military, which, to 2:35:31.680 --> 2:35:35.120 be clear, like by my reading, is completely in contradiction 2:35:35.240 --> 2:35:38.120 of the Constitution. Yeah, but a lot of things that 2:35:38.120 --> 2:35:41.240 are in constitution of the Constitution happened, especially with policing 2:35:41.600 --> 2:35:45.200 all the fucking time, right, Like, yeah, like it is 2:35:45.280 --> 2:35:48.800 important not to normalize this again, Like you don't have 2:35:49.000 --> 2:35:52.560 to be like a blue head Antifa to be like 2:35:52.680 --> 2:35:56.640 this is fucked up. And I think I definitely spoke 2:35:56.680 --> 2:35:58.920 to a few people, like folks who have come out 2:35:58.920 --> 2:36:00.920 of church and stuff, just like, yeah, we had they 2:36:01.000 --> 2:36:04.120 had sent the marines here, so we just came on 2:36:04.240 --> 2:36:07.520 down because that's not okay, that's good to see. Yeah, 2:36:07.600 --> 2:36:10.760 And those are conversations that people who are invested in 2:36:11.240 --> 2:36:14.080 not living in a country where your first memorizs don't 2:36:14.120 --> 2:36:16.800 matter anymore because you can get shot by an eighteen 2:36:16.879 --> 2:36:19.120 year old marine who hasn't had the time to really 2:36:19.640 --> 2:36:24.360 morally and ethically consider that decision. Yeah, Like it's important 2:36:24.400 --> 2:36:27.520 to have those talks with people now because like it 2:36:27.680 --> 2:36:31.880 is very concerning. Yeah, you know, you and I have 2:36:32.560 --> 2:36:35.440 have attended a few civil wars. I don't want to 2:36:35.480 --> 2:36:37.560 be like this country spinning towards civil wars that you know, 2:36:37.640 --> 2:36:39.200 don't think we have a long long way from that. 2:36:39.400 --> 2:36:41.720 I mean, when the President stands in front of a 2:36:41.760 --> 2:36:44.280 bunch of enlisted men at Fort Bragg and talks about 2:36:44.360 --> 2:36:47.800 how they're using the military to restore order to an 2:36:47.800 --> 2:36:51.200 American city that's been invaded, there's no longer an argument 2:36:51.320 --> 2:36:56.360 that those comparisons are an escalation or exaggeration, right, like hyperbolic, 2:36:56.520 --> 2:36:59.720 like yeah, like we're in the shit right now, folks. Yeah, 2:37:00.000 --> 2:37:01.760 and like show me a thing that Asad wouldn't have 2:37:01.879 --> 2:37:05.280 said today, right, right, right. And what you don't have 2:37:05.640 --> 2:37:08.280 is an actual insurrection going on. What you don't have 2:37:08.480 --> 2:37:11.080 is anyone actually fighting the government. You have people who 2:37:11.120 --> 2:37:13.560 are like angry and yelling and some folks who throw 2:37:13.800 --> 2:37:17.960 through rocks. You do not have a militant uprising against 2:37:18.160 --> 2:37:21.280 federal power. They're just kind of acting like it. Yeah, 2:37:21.360 --> 2:37:22.960 Like if you have an insurrection in this country. This 2:37:23.040 --> 2:37:25.760 country has a shit ton of guns. You don't know 2:37:25.840 --> 2:37:28.240 if there's an insurrection because people will be using them. 2:37:28.360 --> 2:37:29.480 Like that's not happening. 2:37:29.720 --> 2:37:33.200 Yeah, it's young people in the street waving flags and 2:37:33.280 --> 2:37:36.599 shouting and like saying fuck the police, is a constitutionally 2:37:36.640 --> 2:37:39.080 protected right in this country. Like, yes, it is. You 2:37:39.160 --> 2:37:44.280 should not get hurt for exercising your first amendment, right right, Yeah, man, 2:37:44.360 --> 2:37:46.800 Like I'm I'm proud of all those people who showed up. 2:37:46.800 --> 2:37:48.480 I'm proud of them for taking care of each other. 2:37:48.959 --> 2:37:51.920 Yeah, And I hope that they stay there, and I 2:37:52.000 --> 2:37:53.400 hope that they you know, as they stay there, they 2:37:53.440 --> 2:37:54.560 become more astute. 2:37:54.840 --> 2:37:56.120 Yeah, they learn some stuff. 2:37:56.200 --> 2:37:58.480 I saw a lot of running two hundred yards away 2:37:58.520 --> 2:38:00.280 from the cops in a very straight line state, down 2:38:00.320 --> 2:38:03.160 a straight street. Yeah, Like, which is not the move 2:38:03.320 --> 2:38:04.600 right that you want to be. 2:38:05.120 --> 2:38:06.800 You want to be. I'm up, he tiese me, I'm down. 2:38:06.879 --> 2:38:07.080 Yeah. 2:38:07.440 --> 2:38:11.640 Serpentine, serpentine, you do the worm, That's that's how you 2:38:11.680 --> 2:38:12.000 get him. 2:38:12.720 --> 2:38:12.920 Yeah. 2:38:13.200 --> 2:38:15.200 There is some polling out early polling. 2:38:15.360 --> 2:38:19.440 This is from g Elliot Morris, formerly of five point 2:38:19.440 --> 2:38:23.320 thirty eight, but conducted June tenth by you gov. Of 2:38:23.520 --> 2:38:26.199 four thy three hundred and nine adults, do you approve 2:38:26.200 --> 2:38:28.480 a disapprove of deploying National Guard soldiers to the Los 2:38:28.520 --> 2:38:31.080 Angeles area to respond to protests over the federal government's 2:38:31.080 --> 2:38:34.200 immigration enforcement Thirty eight percent of food approve, forty five 2:38:34.280 --> 2:38:38.360 percent disapprove, and nineteen percent are not sure. Do you 2:38:38.400 --> 2:38:42.160 approve or disapprove of deploying marines to the Los Angeles area? 2:38:42.280 --> 2:38:46.240 Thirty four percent approve, forty seven percent disapprove, nineteen percent 2:38:46.360 --> 2:38:50.160 not sure. So you know these aren't popular measures, although 2:38:50.160 --> 2:38:52.600 they're also not as unpopular as you would hope. 2:38:52.879 --> 2:38:55.320 Yeah, that's that's not great. I'd like to see you more. 2:38:55.600 --> 2:38:58.520 I mean, yeah, you've got Tom Cotton doing. Is I 2:38:58.600 --> 2:39:00.440 forgetting to woll stoot you on a wash Post? 2:39:00.560 --> 2:39:01.000 OpEd? 2:39:01.560 --> 2:39:01.720 Right? 2:39:02.160 --> 2:39:03.360 Send in the troops for real? 2:39:03.480 --> 2:39:03.880 This time? 2:39:04.200 --> 2:39:05.480 Was that? I thought that was the Times? 2:39:05.840 --> 2:39:06.360 Was it the time? 2:39:06.560 --> 2:39:11.320 I think I forget exactly. Yeah, they're somewhat indistinguishable these days, 2:39:11.400 --> 2:39:14.120 quickly in the op ed pages. You're right, robbit, it 2:39:14.200 --> 2:39:17.040 was the Times. No, No, that's a twenty twenty op ed. Oh, 2:39:17.200 --> 2:39:19.360 twenty twenty five op ed was in the Wall Street chair. 2:39:19.600 --> 2:39:22.800 He got a new one. Okay, yeah, he wrote twenty twenty, rubbit, 2:39:22.920 --> 2:39:25.360 he wrote send in the troops. In twenty twenty five, 2:39:25.520 --> 2:39:30.200 he wrote, send in the troops comma for real for real? Okay? 2:39:30.320 --> 2:39:32.960 Well he got it, yep, yeah, I mean yeah, he 2:39:33.080 --> 2:39:33.920 got what he wanted. 2:39:34.640 --> 2:39:38.160 Well done, Ranger Tom guy who lied about being an 2:39:38.280 --> 2:39:42.360 Army ranger yes, not a ranger, Tom, Yeah, not a 2:39:42.480 --> 2:39:45.560 ranger Tom. Yeah. I mean you see this in the 2:39:45.680 --> 2:39:47.760 UK a lot. I'm very familiar with this kind of 2:39:47.800 --> 2:39:50.840 oh soo doing the pos. Yeah, maybe that's a good 2:39:50.879 --> 2:39:53.120 place for us to end. If you were in the 2:39:53.280 --> 2:39:55.800 US military or the National Guard, if you were someone 2:39:55.879 --> 2:39:57.959 you love is in the military of the National Guard. 2:39:58.760 --> 2:40:01.800 Now it's a good time to read up about bloody Sunday. Yeah, 2:40:02.080 --> 2:40:03.880 happened in Ireland, and now is a good time to 2:40:04.000 --> 2:40:06.840 look at what's currently happening, what has been happening to 2:40:06.920 --> 2:40:11.720 those soldiers, because it took a long time for those 2:40:11.800 --> 2:40:16.520 people to stand trial. And it's not officers who are 2:40:16.560 --> 2:40:21.360 standing trial, right, it's soldiers. It's paratory business case because 2:40:21.560 --> 2:40:24.320 those are always going to be the fingers on the trigger, right. Yeah, 2:40:24.600 --> 2:40:27.120 And so you know, no one, no one knows which 2:40:27.160 --> 2:40:32.119 direction history is moving in. But like things don't feel 2:40:32.160 --> 2:40:33.720 morally right, you know, there were things that the GI 2:40:33.879 --> 2:40:37.520 Rights Hotline. But I think people should be aware what 2:40:37.760 --> 2:40:41.240 happens when countries use their militaries to oppress protest and 2:40:41.360 --> 2:40:43.400 what has happened to some of the soldiers who have 2:40:43.480 --> 2:40:44.360 been ordered to do that. 2:40:44.959 --> 2:40:49.000 Yeah, well, look up Bloody Sunday folks. Maybe we'll cover 2:40:49.120 --> 2:40:52.400 that in the not too distant future, because yeah, that's 2:40:52.520 --> 2:40:54.440 just going to get more relevant. Don't listen to you 2:40:54.600 --> 2:40:57.640 too if you can avoid it, but just look it up. Yeah, 2:40:57.879 --> 2:41:01.640 avoid you two. Not the song Sunday, our bloody Sunday. 2:41:01.800 --> 2:41:04.240 But yeah, all right, everybody, Well this has been it 2:41:04.360 --> 2:41:07.920 could happen here. We will be back tomorrow. We'll see 2:41:07.959 --> 2:41:13.560 if Gavin Newsom has been arrested yet. All right, thanks James, Yeah, thanks, 2:41:13.959 --> 2:41:14.880 that's an episode. 2:41:14.959 --> 2:41:46.440 Bye to Live in Die in l A. Hey, this 2:41:46.640 --> 2:41:47.280 is not a game. 2:41:47.360 --> 2:41:48.640 It is smoke bomb blast. 2:41:48.959 --> 2:41:52.240 That was the data Feds king. That was the data 2:41:52.320 --> 2:41:55.280 Feds king. That was the data bets. 2:41:55.480 --> 2:41:56.520 Live in din in l a. 2:41:56.760 --> 2:41:59.360 Why nothing will be the same. It's smoke bomb blast. 2:41:59.680 --> 2:42:01.080 That was the data Feds came. 2:42:02.160 --> 2:42:03.680 That was the data Feds came. 2:42:04.840 --> 2:42:06.720 That was the data fet A Little and Dying in 2:42:06.959 --> 2:42:09.320 la I ain't a song we sang. It's the gang 2:42:09.400 --> 2:42:11.560 banging Traders. We was ready when it came for us. 2:42:11.680 --> 2:42:15.320 Monkey Monkey Piggy, Piggy, immigration cowardpping off the back of 2:42:15.400 --> 2:42:19.039 black bands, out in Paramount, black bagging, family, kidnapping, broad 2:42:19.120 --> 2:42:22.160 daylight stare with us, staring us to fight back, right right. 2:42:22.200 --> 2:42:24.600 He trying to make a shoe sides Black Love, Brown 2:42:24.720 --> 2:42:27.280 Pride won't play when it's time to ride for West 2:42:27.360 --> 2:42:30.360 side East Sides. He trying to send Americans to Foremard prisons. 2:42:30.400 --> 2:42:31.360 You don't think he'll try. 2:42:31.240 --> 2:42:32.760 To put black bodies inside. 2:42:33.000 --> 2:42:35.640 Game time, Homie, gonna meet us on that Lameter. I 2:42:35.640 --> 2:42:39.040 ain't scared of nail Lamiga. We knew the trail we're 2:42:39.080 --> 2:42:41.560 being here. Gonna keep it peace, Bro. They gonna try 2:42:41.560 --> 2:42:43.400 to bait us. It insta gat us. But wait, bro, 2:42:43.720 --> 2:42:46.000 take it to their face, Brody masking in this paper. 2:42:46.080 --> 2:42:48.360 Then we work for the border. We just following with 2:42:48.480 --> 2:42:51.520 all this, but fear overtakes them matches a facade. We 2:42:51.680 --> 2:42:54.920 exercise our rights, they said, National Guard, and one thing's 2:42:55.000 --> 2:42:58.080 for certain. Burned down the regime when the president chooses 2:42:58.160 --> 2:43:01.120 to send the marine and die in la Hey, this 2:43:01.280 --> 2:43:01.959 is not a game. 2:43:02.040 --> 2:43:03.320 It is smoke bomb blast. 2:43:03.640 --> 2:43:06.920 That was the data FEDS king. That was the data 2:43:07.000 --> 2:43:10.400 FEDS king. That was the data FEDS ca live and 2:43:10.480 --> 2:43:13.000 die in la Why, nothing will be the same. It's 2:43:13.040 --> 2:43:16.880 smoke bomb blast. That was the data FEDS cane. That 2:43:17.080 --> 2:43:20.959 was the data FEDS cane. That was the data FEDS came. 2:43:21.800 --> 2:43:25.120 This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly 2:43:25.200 --> 2:43:28.160 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, 2:43:28.240 --> 2:43:30.400 and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today 2:43:30.680 --> 2:43:34.720 I'm joined by Mia Wong and James Stout. This episode, 2:43:34.760 --> 2:43:37.840 we are covering the week of June four to June eleventh. 2:43:38.680 --> 2:43:43.440 Let's start James with an update on the protests happening 2:43:43.480 --> 2:43:46.680 in LA in response to mass ice raids in the 2:43:46.720 --> 2:43:49.960 Los Angeles area and also around the country. 2:43:50.440 --> 2:43:53.000 Yeah, so I've been in La. I was up covering it. 2:43:53.320 --> 2:43:55.600 I'm back home now. It's on Wednesday. We did a 2:43:55.640 --> 2:43:59.199 whole episode about this people can listen to. In terms 2:43:59.240 --> 2:44:01.800 of update, I think things were a little bit smaller tonight. 2:44:01.879 --> 2:44:04.480 There were a large number of detentions made late tonight. 2:44:04.560 --> 2:44:06.320 You mean last night? Tuesday night? 2:44:06.400 --> 2:44:07.000 Tuesday night? 2:44:07.200 --> 2:44:07.440 Okay. 2:44:07.560 --> 2:44:07.760 Yeah. 2:44:08.200 --> 2:44:12.760 To summarize, right, the first two nights saw the city. 2:44:12.920 --> 2:44:13.560 Caught off guard. 2:44:14.000 --> 2:44:14.240 Yeah. 2:44:14.520 --> 2:44:17.600 The weekend was pretty spicy. Yeah, it got pretty well 2:44:17.640 --> 2:44:19.320 that there. A couple of cop cars got destroyed. To 2:44:19.400 --> 2:44:24.440 think some weimos made the ultimate sacrifice. Urrip Weymouth yep Oh. 2:44:24.480 --> 2:44:27.920 I saw them trucking the Weimos out and there was 2:44:28.040 --> 2:44:31.480 not much Weimo left, Like it was the cremaines of 2:44:31.560 --> 2:44:36.640 the Weimo passed me gone, but Notfregan. So by Monday 2:44:36.760 --> 2:44:39.480 morning they had flooded Los Angele. 2:44:39.480 --> 2:44:40.200 It's with police. 2:44:40.440 --> 2:44:44.320 I saw police from LAPD, LASD. I saw police from 2:44:44.800 --> 2:44:49.920 fps DHS, National Guard, California Highway Patrol. 2:44:50.360 --> 2:44:50.720 It's play. 2:44:50.760 --> 2:44:54.680 It's like Pokemon for cops up there, and that resulted 2:44:55.000 --> 2:44:56.560 in them splitting. 2:44:56.200 --> 2:44:59.279 Up protesters, kettling and detaining people. 2:44:59.280 --> 2:45:02.879 On Monday night. Yeah, and they made extremely liberal use 2:45:02.920 --> 2:45:07.720 of impact munitions, chemical lyeritans, et cetera. Fatday Sunday, Monday Tuesday. 2:45:08.240 --> 2:45:11.680 Thousands of impact munitions that you can find casings all 2:45:11.720 --> 2:45:14.520 the DTLA if you just go walk around. I saw 2:45:14.600 --> 2:45:16.760 a lot of like people are tagged up a lot 2:45:16.760 --> 2:45:20.680 of buildings in DTLA. But from what I've seen, I 2:45:20.720 --> 2:45:22.440 don't know. We'll see, right, It's also the week, so 2:45:22.520 --> 2:45:24.920 maybe maybe things will get bigger again over the weekend. 2:45:25.160 --> 2:45:27.400 Yeah, things can get less combative during the week because 2:45:27.400 --> 2:45:31.720 people are busy with work and keeping themselves like fed 2:45:31.920 --> 2:45:35.280 and yeah, handhouse, and then on the weekend things can 2:45:35.360 --> 2:45:37.279 sometimes open back up again. 2:45:37.520 --> 2:45:37.720 Yeah. 2:45:38.440 --> 2:45:40.920 And also it's worth it's worth noting how these how 2:45:40.959 --> 2:45:43.080 these specific protests are flaring up, which is that like 2:45:43.800 --> 2:45:47.080 these ones are flaring up when Ice like drags people 2:45:47.120 --> 2:45:47.760 out of a place. 2:45:47.879 --> 2:45:51.640 Yeah, it is directly in response to ICE kidnapping their names, right. 2:45:51.959 --> 2:45:54.160 And so you know, the next time ICE does a 2:45:54.240 --> 2:45:56.120 bunch of kidnappings of people, there's a chance that it 2:45:56.160 --> 2:45:58.880 will pop off again because people are being like, holy shit, 2:45:58.959 --> 2:45:59.959 don't take my neighbor away. 2:46:00.440 --> 2:46:00.640 Yeah. 2:46:00.720 --> 2:46:03.480 And the LA protests are already happening in a sequence. 2:46:03.560 --> 2:46:03.680 Right. 2:46:03.720 --> 2:46:05.880 We had stuff happening in San Diego. We then had 2:46:05.920 --> 2:46:08.600 stuff in Minneapolis. We then had stuff in Chicago. We 2:46:08.760 --> 2:46:11.160 then had the really big flare of which was LA. 2:46:11.560 --> 2:46:13.400 And I think what's interesting right now is that instead 2:46:13.400 --> 2:46:16.080 of having just like nationwide riots like there was in 2:46:16.120 --> 2:46:18.600 twenty twenty, this is more like a sequence that actually 2:46:18.680 --> 2:46:21.720 directly follows the actions of ICE. And in some ways, 2:46:21.760 --> 2:46:24.040 I think this can be harder to combat. If every 2:46:24.520 --> 2:46:27.880 city has the capacity to do what LA has done 2:46:28.000 --> 2:46:30.720 in response to the actions of ICE, that follow the 2:46:30.800 --> 2:46:33.440 actions of ICE, that could be harder to prepare for 2:46:33.840 --> 2:46:35.920 than just the federal government realizing that we have to 2:46:36.080 --> 2:46:40.400 do massive counterinsurgency everywhere, all at the same time, like 2:46:40.440 --> 2:46:42.800 what happened in twenty twenty. If instead this is a 2:46:43.000 --> 2:46:46.240 rolling sequence of protests that happened directly in response to 2:46:46.320 --> 2:46:49.360 ice actions, any city could be next. Instead of just 2:46:49.400 --> 2:46:51.880 trying to prepare for nationwide riots, they have to be 2:46:52.040 --> 2:46:54.760 this more like mobile fluid force. They have to respond 2:46:54.800 --> 2:46:57.480 to different outbursts that happen in different cities at different times. 2:46:57.480 --> 2:47:00.280 And I think the other advantage that this model has 2:47:01.040 --> 2:47:04.240 is that the actual protesters themselves can also iterate on tactics. 2:47:04.520 --> 2:47:06.360 Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel every time, you 2:47:06.440 --> 2:47:08.880 can take what happened in a previous city, like a 2:47:08.959 --> 2:47:11.680 week ago, two weeks ago, and iterate on that, iterate 2:47:11.760 --> 2:47:14.600 on what was unsuccessfully, what captured attention, and what was 2:47:14.640 --> 2:47:18.240 able to catch the cops off guard, minimizing mass arrests. 2:47:18.720 --> 2:47:20.720 Yeah, in terms of the state response, just in case 2:47:20.720 --> 2:47:23.359 people have missed it right, two thousand National Guard troops, 2:47:23.640 --> 2:47:28.200 seven hundred United States Marines. The Marines whitly came from 2:47:28.240 --> 2:47:30.440 twenty nine Palms. I know the Corps has like an 2:47:30.560 --> 2:47:33.560 urban warfare school or at least had one there in 2:47:33.640 --> 2:47:36.600 twenty nine Palms. Obviously Camp Pendleton is a bigger base. 2:47:36.800 --> 2:47:39.280 I actually might not be geograph. They're both huge and 2:47:39.440 --> 2:47:41.320 closer to LA, but they sent them from twenty nine 2:47:41.360 --> 2:47:45.080 Palms instead. I didn't see any Marines. They're just supposed 2:47:45.080 --> 2:47:47.400 to be protecting federal assets and not supposed to be 2:47:47.440 --> 2:47:50.760 out there like straight up policing. Obviously, that's, you know, unconstitutional. 2:47:51.080 --> 2:47:53.480 One could make a case it's unconstitutional to be deploying 2:47:53.520 --> 2:47:55.160 them at all in this fashion. 2:47:55.600 --> 2:47:58.760 There are some on the streets now. National Guard is 2:47:58.800 --> 2:48:01.400 actually making arrests on the street. Marines have not as 2:48:01.520 --> 2:48:04.200 of Wednesday, but some of the Marines have been deployed. 2:48:04.520 --> 2:48:07.160 There's upwards of seven hundred who are like in the 2:48:07.240 --> 2:48:09.840 process of being deployed to LA streets right now, out 2:48:09.879 --> 2:48:12.600 of two thousand available troops, some of which are actually 2:48:12.640 --> 2:48:16.680 still receiving training on standard rules of force. So these 2:48:16.720 --> 2:48:20.360 people do not have necessarily like extensive training on police 2:48:20.400 --> 2:48:24.160 crowd control, but are currently brushing up on crowd control tactics. 2:48:24.360 --> 2:48:28.040 Yeah, what I saw from National Guard was like it 2:48:28.120 --> 2:48:30.080 seemed to be by rank, although I'm not certain of that. 2:48:30.600 --> 2:48:33.480 Guys with with shields and sticks right, just straight up 2:48:33.520 --> 2:48:36.280 poles as opposed to like truncheons like a T shape 2:48:36.320 --> 2:48:39.320 or an L shape or whatever. And then probably one 2:48:39.400 --> 2:48:42.000 in every five or six had an M four with 2:48:42.120 --> 2:48:44.840 a magazine. That's a gun for people who aren't familiar, 2:48:44.959 --> 2:48:48.280 it's in AAR fifteen and that's obviously live ammunition. So 2:48:48.560 --> 2:48:50.400 like they didn't seem to have any access to like 2:48:50.480 --> 2:48:52.440 less lethals or they didn't bring them. A Y did, 2:48:53.760 --> 2:48:56.120 but I don't know about marines. And obviously we saw 2:48:56.280 --> 2:48:59.200 like police using less lethals. And then LASD also had 2:49:00.240 --> 2:49:03.680 some cops with m pas amongst their formations. 2:49:04.120 --> 2:49:06.920 And this is just about to like really expand outside 2:49:06.959 --> 2:49:10.760 of LA and California amidst anti ICE protests across Texas. 2:49:10.879 --> 2:49:14.640 Governor Greg Abbott just deployed the Texas National Guard. And 2:49:14.840 --> 2:49:18.040 on Tuesday night, I believe MSNBC broke the story that 2:49:18.400 --> 2:49:21.560 ICE is about to send Special Response Team quote unquote 2:49:21.600 --> 2:49:25.360 tactical units to five Democrat controlled areas, namely in New 2:49:25.400 --> 2:49:29.880 York City, Seattle, Chicago, Philadelphia, and northern Virginia. 2:49:30.120 --> 2:49:32.760 Yeah, SRT is like a swat team if if you're 2:49:32.760 --> 2:49:35.400 not familiar, Like there was a DHSSRT that ended up 2:49:35.440 --> 2:49:39.120 responding in to that South Park protest in San Diego 2:49:39.200 --> 2:49:41.600 that we mentioned last week or the week before. 2:49:42.120 --> 2:49:44.680 As of Wednesday, there's already been protests this week and 2:49:44.760 --> 2:49:49.000 over half US states. This will certainly continue throughout the weekend, 2:49:49.440 --> 2:49:52.200 at least for LA. On Tuesday night, the mayor announced 2:49:52.200 --> 2:49:54.680 an eight pm curfew in downtown Los Angeles. There were 2:49:54.720 --> 2:49:58.360 mass arrests Tuesday night, hundreds of people. I think the 2:49:58.440 --> 2:50:02.960 other advantage that this kind of rolling sequence model that 2:50:03.040 --> 2:50:07.200 we've seen with like San Diego, Minneapolis, Chicago, LA is 2:50:07.280 --> 2:50:08.840 that not only does it give people time to like 2:50:08.920 --> 2:50:10.760 iterate on tactics, but it also gives people a break. 2:50:11.320 --> 2:50:14.800 If anyone who survived twenty twenty, like you know how 2:50:15.040 --> 2:50:17.520 how intense burnout can be from just doing that all 2:50:17.600 --> 2:50:20.840 the time. Yeah, and having the built in brakes where 2:50:20.879 --> 2:50:24.720 you can like recover physically and mentally while iterating on tactics, 2:50:25.040 --> 2:50:26.160 that could be interesting to see. 2:50:27.320 --> 2:50:29.240 I think also this one thing we should notice about this, 2:50:29.320 --> 2:50:33.200 which is that like there's a very clear actual thing 2:50:33.320 --> 2:50:35.160 you're trying to do here, which is stop them from 2:50:35.200 --> 2:50:38.039 taking these people. And even if you fail to immediately 2:50:38.080 --> 2:50:40.080 take someone, like stop them taking someone in the moment. 2:50:40.200 --> 2:50:43.320 Every single like second they're having to do dealing with 2:50:43.440 --> 2:50:45.360 this shit is means that they're not doing it. Yeah, 2:50:45.360 --> 2:50:48.000 so you're you're degrading their capacity. Yeah, exactly. The time 2:50:48.120 --> 2:50:51.640 is like the most valuable asset year. Yeah, and like 2:50:51.680 --> 2:50:53.959 obviously again like the larger goals you want to like expel, 2:50:54.320 --> 2:50:55.680 like you know, like one of the most common things 2:50:55.680 --> 2:50:57.400 I'm hearing from people is just like ice out of 2:50:57.440 --> 2:50:58.880 the city, right, Like, we don't want them to be 2:50:58.959 --> 2:51:02.000 fucking doing these raids, but every every time they're forced 2:51:02.080 --> 2:51:05.040 to like actually face resistance when they're doing a raid 2:51:05.160 --> 2:51:06.600 makes it much much harder for them to do what 2:51:06.640 --> 2:51:09.039 they have to start planning for there to be resistance 2:51:09.080 --> 2:51:12.279 to the rage, which slows them down. And yeah, everything 2:51:12.320 --> 2:51:15.680 you could do to put fucking wrenches into the gears 2:51:15.840 --> 2:51:19.000 until the machine breaks is good. And then there's a 2:51:19.120 --> 2:51:21.440 there's a very clear path from A to B two 2:51:21.480 --> 2:51:23.640 C in a way that they're kind of aren't. Like, 2:51:23.720 --> 2:51:26.480 it doesn't rely on politicians doing stuff. It just relies 2:51:26.520 --> 2:51:28.200 on us stopping them. 2:51:28.879 --> 2:51:30.360 So yeah, yeah, it. 2:51:30.360 --> 2:51:32.720 Tak me politicians doing stuff. The city of Glendale did 2:51:32.800 --> 2:51:36.360 cancel its detention contract with Ice, right, so they won't 2:51:36.360 --> 2:51:39.120 be detaining people there. So like a little bit of 2:51:39.160 --> 2:51:42.440 progress there. And Gavin Newsom has said some shit about 2:51:42.440 --> 2:51:44.640 the deployment of the National Guard and California has far 2:51:44.720 --> 2:51:47.480 a court case like news has not done everything in 2:51:47.520 --> 2:51:50.320 his power to stop that. But it's Gavin Newsom. What 2:51:50.400 --> 2:51:52.200 do you expect I'll be back in the al a. 2:51:52.360 --> 2:51:57.120 Things continue there, but it's uh, certainly the biggest protest 2:51:57.200 --> 2:52:01.280 we've seen this time around in the Trump administration. All right, 2:52:01.560 --> 2:52:04.880 let's go and break and come back to discuss more news. 2:52:17.200 --> 2:52:21.880 We are back and unlike people from twelve countries who 2:52:21.920 --> 2:52:24.840 will not be coming back to the United States for 2:52:24.920 --> 2:52:28.920 the foreseeable future because the Trump administration has announced. 2:52:28.600 --> 2:52:30.480 A new travel ban. 2:52:30.920 --> 2:52:33.680 The form of the travel ban is basically, anyone who 2:52:33.720 --> 2:52:35.680 applies for a visa or is in the process of 2:52:35.760 --> 2:52:39.160 applying for a visa currently, if they are from one 2:52:39.200 --> 2:52:42.320 of these twelve countries is unable to obtain a visa 2:52:42.400 --> 2:52:45.480 to the United States. Right the twelve countries, seven have 2:52:45.600 --> 2:52:51.120 partial restrictions, and then the full ban is on Afghanistan, Myanmar, Chad, 2:52:51.280 --> 2:52:56.680 the Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, eritrere Haiti, Iran, Livia, Somalia, 2:52:57.120 --> 2:53:02.880 Sudan and Yemen, and then Borindi, kuber Laos, Sierra Leone, Togo, 2:53:02.959 --> 2:53:06.400 Turkmenistan and Venezuela have like a higher barrier, right and 2:53:06.520 --> 2:53:09.960 some visas are not available to them. Meanmar is an 2:53:10.000 --> 2:53:11.360 interesting inclusion there. 2:53:11.680 --> 2:53:12.720 Yeah, it is. 2:53:13.520 --> 2:53:16.680 They looked at two criteria eteems right, because Trump made 2:53:16.680 --> 2:53:18.600 an executive order at the start of his presidency, like 2:53:18.680 --> 2:53:22.440 looking to identify countries for a travel man. The two 2:53:22.520 --> 2:53:27.640 criteria they had were visa overstay percentages and the quote 2:53:27.720 --> 2:53:30.720 unquote not having a competent central authority to cooperate with 2:53:30.840 --> 2:53:33.320 on vetting. Right, So like you can't do a background 2:53:33.400 --> 2:53:35.480 check on someone if their country doesn't have that facility. 2:53:36.000 --> 2:53:38.520 It's a claim, right. I think they got vanmar on 2:53:38.680 --> 2:53:43.240 visa overstay percentages. It's worth noting, right that they use 2:53:43.360 --> 2:53:47.080 percentages and not raw numbers for a reason, because, yeah, 2:53:47.160 --> 2:53:51.400 a certain percentage of Burmese people may overstay their visa. 2:53:51.840 --> 2:53:54.680 I think it's twenty seven point one percent. That amounts 2:53:54.760 --> 2:53:58.600 to five hundred and forty three individuals. If we look 2:53:58.640 --> 2:54:02.000 at for instance, France, these are twenty twenty three numbers, 2:54:02.720 --> 2:54:05.480 about zero point six percent of French people over stay 2:54:05.520 --> 2:54:08.880 their visa. That amounts to nine one hundred and eighty 2:54:08.920 --> 2:54:11.960 two individuals, right, So like a percentage is great, but 2:54:12.360 --> 2:54:13.880 a big percentage of a small thing is still a 2:54:13.879 --> 2:54:16.840 small thing. Yeah, this is how they're attempting to justify 2:54:16.879 --> 2:54:19.879 it though in terms of bulletproofing it through the courts. Obviously, 2:54:19.920 --> 2:54:22.360 they didn't have the best luck with their travel ban 2:54:22.400 --> 2:54:26.040 in the first administration, so using this tactic is one 2:54:26.120 --> 2:54:28.680 that they're hoping will justify it. Will it will stick 2:54:28.680 --> 2:54:32.240 the landing through the courts. I should add that they 2:54:32.600 --> 2:54:36.160 have some exemptions right, existing visa holders who are currently 2:54:36.200 --> 2:54:38.600 within the United States can remain in the United States. 2:54:38.720 --> 2:54:38.840 Right. 2:54:39.160 --> 2:54:42.120 In practice, lots of these countries only get single entry visas, 2:54:42.200 --> 2:54:43.520 so it might be hard for them to leave and 2:54:43.600 --> 2:54:47.800 come back. But it's sometimes I've heard it reported that 2:54:47.959 --> 2:54:49.800 all these people, like people from these countries can no 2:54:49.840 --> 2:54:51.080 longer come to the United States or be in the 2:54:51.160 --> 2:54:54.480 United States, and that's not true. There are exemptions for 2:54:54.879 --> 2:54:58.760 people who are dual citizens. There are exemptions for adoptive children. 2:54:59.320 --> 2:55:03.640 There are exempts for ethnic and religious minorities in Iran. 2:55:04.200 --> 2:55:10.240 There are exemptions for sports teams because the United States. Well, 2:55:10.240 --> 2:55:13.640 the United States is holding the World Cup and the Olympics, right, yeah, 2:55:13.680 --> 2:55:17.440 so it would be something of a fascical spectacle if 2:55:17.959 --> 2:55:21.000 you know, nineteen countries were not represented. I mean, the 2:55:21.040 --> 2:55:23.400 Olympic Games is something of a fascical spectacle to begin with, 2:55:23.480 --> 2:55:27.840 one could argue, but yeah, they didn't want that, right, 2:55:28.080 --> 2:55:31.600 they didn't want that like international spectacle. So a professional 2:55:31.600 --> 2:55:34.160 athlete visa is hard to get at the best of times, 2:55:34.680 --> 2:55:36.879 so that is a high bar, but those ones still 2:55:36.920 --> 2:55:40.240 seem to be available. And then there's also exemptions for 2:55:40.360 --> 2:55:43.000 SIV wrote special immigrant visas. These are people who've worked 2:55:43.000 --> 2:55:45.560 closely with the United States. The vast bulk of them 2:55:45.600 --> 2:55:49.400 will be Afghan people, people who worked as interpreters or 2:55:49.720 --> 2:55:52.320 otherwise cooperated with the United States during the twenty years 2:55:52.879 --> 2:55:56.879 the United States was a war in Afghanistan. Again, I've 2:55:56.920 --> 2:56:00.000 seen that mis reported, including by people who really should 2:56:00.160 --> 2:56:02.840 know better. But you know, I'm never not disappointed in 2:56:02.879 --> 2:56:06.959 a lot of people's immigration coverage. This will be challenging court, right, 2:56:07.240 --> 2:56:10.560 but I think they have gone some way to trying 2:56:10.680 --> 2:56:14.120 to make this a bit more bulletproof than they did before. 2:56:14.800 --> 2:56:17.800 And it is concerning that they seem to have a 2:56:17.879 --> 2:56:21.240 better chance. Obviously pretty concerning, especially for us, you know, 2:56:21.480 --> 2:56:25.039 with our extensive reboarding on Burma or Mihanmar, that those 2:56:25.080 --> 2:56:29.080 people can't come here and be safe. Yeah, that's a 2:56:29.120 --> 2:56:30.640 travel ban in a nutshell, I guess. 2:56:31.320 --> 2:56:33.080 Also, I think it's worth noting so like this is 2:56:33.160 --> 2:56:36.040 just an expanded version. Well, I guess it's like a 2:56:36.080 --> 2:56:38.480 little bit of differences, but it's basically an expanded version 2:56:38.480 --> 2:56:39.959 of the Muslim band from his first term. 2:56:40.200 --> 2:56:43.200 Yeah, with some new countries and I think maybe the 2:56:43.360 --> 2:56:45.360 removal of some countries from previously. 2:56:45.879 --> 2:56:48.920 Yeah, and like it's worth noting that, like in Tromp 2:56:49.120 --> 2:56:52.200 one like that immediately caused the airport protests, which were 2:56:52.240 --> 2:56:54.480 like the first big protests of the administration that were 2:56:54.520 --> 2:56:58.240 extremely effective until people like went home. And this time 2:56:58.520 --> 2:57:02.560 it's basically been a news story because we're so far 2:57:02.640 --> 2:57:05.400 along that the protests have been about like ices dragging 2:57:05.440 --> 2:57:10.080 our neighbors away, and yeah, I just think that's fucking 2:57:10.320 --> 2:57:12.720 bad as shit. And also the airport protests, like we're 2:57:12.800 --> 2:57:14.000 really effective. 2:57:14.080 --> 2:57:16.160 Some of the more effective protests in those years. Yeah, 2:57:16.640 --> 2:57:19.920 I am I did see a flyer for an airport protest, 2:57:19.959 --> 2:57:22.560 but I've seen no evidence of one's occurring. 2:57:22.800 --> 2:57:24.760 Yeah, I had heard that there was going to be 2:57:24.879 --> 2:57:26.920 one on Monday, but that it just like didn't happen. 2:57:27.120 --> 2:57:29.480 So I don't know what's going on with that. Yeah, 2:57:29.600 --> 2:57:31.840 but that was a thing that was pretty effective, and 2:57:32.000 --> 2:57:35.600 they also didn't eat the shirt of everyone for most 2:57:35.640 --> 2:57:37.160 of it, which was nice. 2:57:37.440 --> 2:57:37.640 Yeah. 2:57:39.000 --> 2:57:43.400 Yeah, well Mia, talking of beats, how about we dropped 2:57:43.440 --> 2:57:47.160 some beats right now with this sick tariff song. Great work, James, 2:57:47.440 --> 2:57:56.040 thank you, thank you, jazz rocking jazz bots. 2:57:56.120 --> 2:58:06.280 Sorry, jazz rocking jazz bock. The Donald Trump has apparently, 2:58:06.560 --> 2:58:10.320 according to him, resolved that the trade war with China. 2:58:10.840 --> 2:58:14.280 He's claiming the negotiation one is he's claiming, he's claiming victory, 2:58:14.400 --> 2:58:17.760 mission accomplished. Yeah, the claim that he's making out of 2:58:17.959 --> 2:58:21.080 the out of the London negotiations. And I want to 2:58:21.120 --> 2:58:22.760 point out that I have not heard anything from the 2:58:22.840 --> 2:58:25.320 Chinese side. It's possible there will be soft from the 2:58:25.400 --> 2:58:27.840 Chinese side by the time this episode comes out. It's 2:58:27.920 --> 2:58:29.760 possible this whole deal will have collass by. 2:58:29.760 --> 2:58:30.560 The time this comes out. 2:58:31.520 --> 2:58:36.039 It seems like the deal is that US maintains tariffs 2:58:36.040 --> 2:58:38.000 of fifty five percent, which is what they're at right now, 2:58:38.800 --> 2:58:42.360 China maintains ten percent tariffs, and then China ensures US 2:58:42.440 --> 2:58:46.640 access to rare earth metals, and then the US does. 2:58:47.600 --> 2:58:50.360 Trump was talking about the US not actually doing a 2:58:50.440 --> 2:58:56.080 crackdown on like Chinese international students. So who knows what 2:58:56.240 --> 2:58:57.800 the fuck is going to happen with any of that. 2:58:58.920 --> 2:59:01.480 That is the reporting that's coming out right now. 2:59:02.160 --> 2:59:02.480 I don't know. 2:59:02.600 --> 2:59:05.800 Quite frankly, I am skeptical this is going to hold. 2:59:06.879 --> 2:59:09.760 I again, like I don't I don't know if like 2:59:10.680 --> 2:59:13.360 in two days when this episode comes out of any 2:59:13.400 --> 2:59:16.320 of this is gonna be true, because again we have 2:59:16.440 --> 2:59:18.760 heard nothing from the Chinese side. It has all been 2:59:18.800 --> 2:59:23.720 from Trump, So who the fuck knows. But yeah, that's 2:59:23.840 --> 2:59:24.280 that that is. 2:59:24.400 --> 2:59:25.960 That is the late of tariff news. This is the 2:59:26.040 --> 2:59:31.000 kind of short one. That's that's what we've got that's exciting. 2:59:31.080 --> 2:59:33.320 That's exciting that we won trade is back. I can 2:59:33.400 --> 2:59:37.279 go back to buying everything I own from Timu, no problem. 2:59:37.680 --> 2:59:40.080 Yeah, I mean, I give my usual disclaimer that fifty 2:59:40.120 --> 2:59:42.840 percent tariff on China is like fucking ruinous the global economy, 2:59:42.840 --> 2:59:45.520 et cetera, et cetera. I do genuinely hope that like 2:59:45.560 --> 2:59:47.840 the Chinese international students are getting cracked out on because 2:59:48.920 --> 2:59:52.480 Jesus fucking Christ, those poor kids. All of these policies 2:59:52.480 --> 2:59:55.440 are tied together in this sort of like unhinged like 2:59:55.600 --> 2:59:59.080 American Nationalists project, et cetera, et cetera. They're all connected. 2:59:59.520 --> 3:00:03.480 They hate it and AA really really fun time to 3:00:03.520 --> 3:00:05.080 be a Chinese trans woman in the US. 3:00:05.440 --> 3:00:11.480 WHOA, Okay, it's also fun to enjoy the COVID vaccine 3:00:11.840 --> 3:00:13.880 because we might not get it for much longer. I 3:00:13.959 --> 3:00:16.040 guess I'll do a brief update on an episode I 3:00:16.080 --> 3:00:19.200 did with Cave a few weeks ago. So RFK has 3:00:19.440 --> 3:00:25.040 now dismissed the entirety of the ACIP, the CDC's Vaccine 3:00:25.160 --> 3:00:29.280 Advisory Committee that has just been completely dissolved. This happened 3:00:29.520 --> 3:00:33.119 on Tuesday. That was the big theory that Cave had 3:00:33.400 --> 3:00:35.880 is that if that panel gets dissolved, that that was 3:00:35.959 --> 3:00:38.400 kind of the last line of defense with like reasonable 3:00:38.480 --> 3:00:41.720 people being in charge of COVID vaccine recommendations at the CDC. 3:00:42.120 --> 3:00:44.480 And that has gone. And just a few minutes ago, 3:00:45.520 --> 3:00:48.520 RFK Junior announced the replacements. And i'd have not had 3:00:48.600 --> 3:00:50.800 enough time to look into all these guys, because this 3:00:50.959 --> 3:00:54.120 was literally just thirty minutes ago. But at least half 3:00:54.160 --> 3:00:56.720 of them are at the very least what would be 3:00:56.760 --> 3:01:02.760 considered COVID vaccine skeptic, oh cool, right wing libertarian types, 3:01:02.840 --> 3:01:06.680 people who have been dismissed from their academic positions. Basically, 3:01:06.760 --> 3:01:10.640 it's who you would expect RFK two to submit to 3:01:10.760 --> 3:01:14.840 a vaccine advisory panel. The very least half are like cranks. 3:01:16.040 --> 3:01:17.760 I will try to look into the rest of these 3:01:17.760 --> 3:01:19.480 guys in the future. We should probably do a full 3:01:19.520 --> 3:01:23.760 follow up episode eventually on the new panel. So not 3:01:24.000 --> 3:01:27.520 looking good on the COVID vaccine front. 3:01:28.680 --> 3:01:31.160 Yeah, we also have very bad news from the FCC, 3:01:31.400 --> 3:01:34.840 which instead of like you know, I don't know, Like 3:01:35.120 --> 3:01:38.040 I know, crypto scams are supposed to be the SEC's thing, 3:01:38.120 --> 3:01:40.080 but I feel like the FCC also should have fucking 3:01:40.080 --> 3:01:42.440 things with crypto scams. But instead of instead of going 3:01:42.480 --> 3:01:45.800 after the fucking crypto scams, what they're doing is they're 3:01:45.800 --> 3:01:50.080 gonna hold like meetings basically with what is I'm assuming 3:01:50.200 --> 3:01:51.960 is going to be a bunch of the most unhingedy 3:01:52.040 --> 3:01:57.599 transgrifters and anti trans like hacks, frauds, and violent bigots. 3:01:57.560 --> 3:02:00.760 Notably not trans people. Yeah, yeah, they will be included. 3:02:01.480 --> 3:02:04.360 No for the statements no trans people, no trans people, no, no, No. 3:02:04.920 --> 3:02:08.560 They're looking into ways to do like FCC investigations for 3:02:08.760 --> 3:02:12.879 like deceptive marketing practices for any doctor and also parents 3:02:12.920 --> 3:02:14.600 for some reason, which how the fuck is you got 3:02:14.600 --> 3:02:16.039 heater a parent for defective marketing? 3:02:16.600 --> 3:02:18.760 What the fuck are we doing here? But anyone who 3:02:19.200 --> 3:02:22.680 like gives a child's any kind of trans healthcare? 3:02:22.800 --> 3:02:25.080 I mean, is it specifically trans healthcare or are they 3:02:25.160 --> 3:02:29.920 trying to like specify like surgical procedures, because I've seen 3:02:30.000 --> 3:02:31.240 some like mixed reporting on this. 3:02:32.080 --> 3:02:34.880 It's unclear right now. The wording that I saw was 3:02:34.959 --> 3:02:37.039 so ambiguous that I think it could be anything. 3:02:37.120 --> 3:02:37.880 But I don't know. 3:02:38.720 --> 3:02:40.200 And this is I think one of the things it's 3:02:40.240 --> 3:02:43.600 not clear that they know right now, right Like, it's 3:02:43.640 --> 3:02:45.840 all just really really up in the air. What the 3:02:45.879 --> 3:02:47.200 fuck this is going to turn into or if this 3:02:47.280 --> 3:02:49.560 is even going to turn into anything. We had that 3:02:49.720 --> 3:02:52.400 whole at the beginning of Pride. The FBI was like, hey, 3:02:52.520 --> 3:02:56.879 you can report like doctors doing like trans healthcare here 3:02:57.040 --> 3:02:59.600 to things. Yeah, and some of these have not really 3:02:59.640 --> 3:03:03.279 turned into anything yet. The anti Wolk FBI soliciting tips 3:03:03.320 --> 3:03:06.400 for people providing trends healthcare. Yeah, yeah, so, like I 3:03:06.400 --> 3:03:09.760 don't know, we'll put a pin in that one to 3:03:09.840 --> 3:03:12.000 see if some fucking horrible stuff happens out of the 3:03:12.080 --> 3:03:14.560 out of there. That's you know, one of the next 3:03:15.600 --> 3:03:18.520 gian anti trans things that they're doing, as all of 3:03:18.560 --> 3:03:22.240 the anti immregrant stuff happens, as they fucking make vaccines illegal. 3:03:22.480 --> 3:03:25.680 Like it's so much of the trends dust specifically is 3:03:25.760 --> 3:03:27.720 like just the chilling effect that it's trying to scare 3:03:27.760 --> 3:03:30.680 people away from providing people with the health care that 3:03:30.720 --> 3:03:34.000 they need to live fulfillian lives. And it's working. 3:03:34.360 --> 3:03:35.920 Like there are there are lots of clinics that have 3:03:36.040 --> 3:03:39.120 like fucking stopped and if you if you are one 3:03:39.160 --> 3:03:40.480 of the people at these clinics. 3:03:40.240 --> 3:03:43.080 Fuck you eat shit well. And I think that is 3:03:43.120 --> 3:03:44.720 where people can apply pressure. 3:03:44.400 --> 3:03:46.560 To Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I was gonna say, yeah, 3:03:46.560 --> 3:03:48.039 it's like there have been protests. 3:03:48.120 --> 3:03:50.160 You're not going to change the mind of the Trump 3:03:50.160 --> 3:03:52.800 administration on this topic at this point, but you can 3:03:52.879 --> 3:03:55.160 apply pressure to people who are feeling like they're too 3:03:55.480 --> 3:03:57.480 they're too scared to actually provide healthcare, and they can 3:03:57.520 --> 3:03:59.840 be reminded that no it is their duty to provide 3:04:00.000 --> 3:04:00.840 people with healthcare. 3:04:01.120 --> 3:04:04.240 Yeah, And and people have successfully gotten clinics to start 3:04:04.320 --> 3:04:06.959 to restart like transalth go for kids by just going 3:04:06.959 --> 3:04:10.200 out and protesting. This is also just like if you're 3:04:11.320 --> 3:04:15.800 I don't know, you're in like a blue city and 3:04:16.200 --> 3:04:19.160 you don't know immigrants, and you're like, I want to 3:04:19.200 --> 3:04:21.440 do a protest, this is the thing you can do. 3:04:21.600 --> 3:04:23.360 You can find there's one in Chicago right now that 3:04:23.400 --> 3:04:25.120 I'm blanking on the name of where there's a bunch 3:04:25.120 --> 3:04:27.720 of protests. Yeah, but like you can find the clinics 3:04:27.760 --> 3:04:29.080 that are refusing to do this and you can go 3:04:29.200 --> 3:04:31.760 fucking protest them, and this can and will work. 3:04:32.240 --> 3:04:34.760 We've spoken on the show before to healthcare workers who 3:04:34.840 --> 3:04:39.440 are like very dedicated to keeping the provision of gender 3:04:39.480 --> 3:04:42.000 affirming care. So like you want to listen to more. 3:04:42.040 --> 3:04:42.520 You can hear that. 3:04:42.640 --> 3:04:46.240 Yah, you can hear how folks are organizing to retect that. Yeah. 3:04:46.320 --> 3:04:48.720 And all of those people are fucking heroes, even if 3:04:48.720 --> 3:04:50.920 they probably won't be remembered as such for a long time, 3:04:51.080 --> 3:04:53.840 but they are. And keep doing it and keep the 3:04:53.920 --> 3:04:54.280 fight up. 3:04:54.560 --> 3:04:57.880 Let's go and break and then return to finish up 3:04:57.959 --> 3:05:14.080 on an exciting piece of news. Hooray. Okay, we are back. 3:05:15.520 --> 3:05:18.959 So as usual, a massive, massive news dropped right after 3:05:19.000 --> 3:05:23.360 we finished recording last week's Executive Disobium, and that is 3:05:23.640 --> 3:05:26.720 the the Elon Musk Donald Trump breakup story got a 3:05:26.800 --> 3:05:29.240 lot more messy. So this is what we're gonna close on, 3:05:29.520 --> 3:05:32.599 possibly one of our last stinky Musk segments. 3:05:32.400 --> 3:05:35.920 But I fucking know it, Jesus Christ, We'll never forget you. 3:05:36.040 --> 3:05:36.320 Eat On. 3:05:36.560 --> 3:05:38.680 Oh uh miya, do you wanna do you wanna to 3:05:38.680 --> 3:05:39.400 start us off here? 3:05:39.720 --> 3:05:42.400 Yeah, let's let's start this off with. Okay, I have 3:05:42.520 --> 3:05:46.279 been seeing this has kind of stopped now that Elon 3:05:46.320 --> 3:05:48.240 has kind of like run crying back the Trump. But 3:05:48.360 --> 3:05:50.160 like we'll see, there was a there was a moment 3:05:50.440 --> 3:05:52.600 where a lot of the like like Matt and Glaciers, 3:05:52.640 --> 3:05:54.360 like a lot of the sort of like reasonable Democrats 3:05:54.480 --> 3:05:56.480 or whatever we're trying to be, like we should try 3:05:56.520 --> 3:05:57.640 to recruit Musk into the coulistion. 3:05:57.800 --> 3:05:58.800 That was a scary moment. 3:05:58.959 --> 3:05:59.680 Yeah, yeah, I. 3:05:59.680 --> 3:06:02.960 Want reminds everyone this is the guy who did two 3:06:03.760 --> 3:06:07.000 Nazis saluted the inauguration two two of them. He did 3:06:07.120 --> 3:06:09.120 one and then he did a second one. People have 3:06:09.160 --> 3:06:11.600 forgotten that they also did the second NA, like Census 3:06:11.640 --> 3:06:13.840 administration came into office. He has spent this time destroying 3:06:13.840 --> 3:06:16.800 the federal government. He has spent this time terrorizing like 3:06:16.920 --> 3:06:23.280 government employees, just shutting down fucking important government institutions. Enormous 3:06:23.360 --> 3:06:25.360 numbers of people are going to die because of the 3:06:25.440 --> 3:06:28.080 things that he's done, like the shutting down to USAID 3:06:28.240 --> 3:06:32.440 and particularly like the vaccine programs, the ANTIHAV programs. You know, 3:06:32.640 --> 3:06:34.280 like he's just been doing all of the shift for 3:06:34.360 --> 3:06:37.680 this entire time, right, he has been just systematically looting 3:06:37.760 --> 3:06:40.840 and tearing apart anything in the US federal government that 3:06:40.959 --> 3:06:45.119 even can remotely do anything for a person from again, 3:06:45.240 --> 3:06:48.879 everything from like HIV prevention to like destroying a bunch 3:06:48.920 --> 3:06:50.959 of the apparatus that like figures out what the weather 3:06:51.120 --> 3:06:53.560 is going to be and tells you when storms are coming. Yeah, 3:06:53.680 --> 3:06:54.680 he has been fucking doing that. 3:06:54.840 --> 3:06:57.560 Well, like Mia, the weather is woke. You can't you 3:06:57.600 --> 3:06:59.879 can't forget the woke weather machines. 3:07:00.120 --> 3:07:00.959 Yeah, that's right. 3:07:01.160 --> 3:07:03.600 I just had a meeting with the Southeast Alliance where 3:07:03.600 --> 3:07:05.520 we're deciding the weather for the next few weeks. 3:07:06.000 --> 3:07:07.879 Fucking God, make it less hot here. 3:07:08.320 --> 3:07:12.760 It's too fucking hot weather too hot. I know, well, 3:07:12.840 --> 3:07:14.920 we have to raise the temperature. It's all it's all 3:07:14.959 --> 3:07:18.039 part of the plan, large scale political planned, that's right, 3:07:19.040 --> 3:07:22.320 you get it, James, Yeah, the plan more heat, more riots. 3:07:22.360 --> 3:07:25.520 I don't know, that's right, Okay, it's it's also remembering 3:07:25.560 --> 3:07:28.160 that these two were very very close sort of like 3:07:28.240 --> 3:07:30.240 during this election cycle. Right, Trump was just straight up 3:07:30.320 --> 3:07:32.680 going first. Buddy was just I mean, she's just just 3:07:32.800 --> 3:07:37.000 like straight up in Philadelphia, like paying people to vote. 3:07:37.280 --> 3:07:40.480 Through these like raffles. Elon a Celon. Yeah, Elon was 3:07:40.520 --> 3:07:42.000 just like yeah, straight up doing these right. 3:07:42.360 --> 3:07:44.160 Trump just like did a tesla ad. 3:07:44.879 --> 3:07:45.080 Yeah. 3:07:45.200 --> 3:07:47.880 Yeah, it's like he just did a tesla ad. 3:07:48.840 --> 3:07:52.080 They first, buddy has gotta gotta have each other's backs, 3:07:52.120 --> 3:07:54.280 you know, never say that again. 3:07:54.920 --> 3:07:56.680 So there had started to be a little bit of 3:07:56.760 --> 3:08:00.800 tension between them, like as the tariffs are mounted, because 3:08:00.800 --> 3:08:03.240 the tariffs are you know, not good for Elon and 3:08:03.320 --> 3:08:05.000 think things kind of came to a head when Elon 3:08:05.120 --> 3:08:08.280 tried to buy the Wisconsin Supreme Court election and just 3:08:08.440 --> 3:08:10.800 got his ass kicked harder than anyone I've ever seen 3:08:11.480 --> 3:08:13.199 get just absolutely thumped. 3:08:13.520 --> 3:08:16.440 And this is where the policy wonk sector of the 3:08:16.560 --> 3:08:19.760 right was starting to like side eye Elon and question 3:08:19.959 --> 3:08:23.680 his like yeah, yeah, invincibility, right, this this this this 3:08:23.840 --> 3:08:26.200 guy that can come in and like save the Republican Party, 3:08:26.280 --> 3:08:29.720 can secure every future election. That's where that I like 3:08:29.920 --> 3:08:32.240 view of Elon started to really get called into question. 3:08:32.440 --> 3:08:34.320 Maybe this guy is kind of just a one hit wonder. 3:08:34.920 --> 3:08:36.760 Yeah, and and and you can also look at a 3:08:36.800 --> 3:08:38.320 lot of the stuff that was sort of happening here 3:08:38.400 --> 3:08:44.160 in terms of like she is staggeringly unpopular, right, everyone 3:08:44.240 --> 3:08:47.920 fucking hates him, and like the Number Party did a 3:08:47.959 --> 3:08:50.400 really bad job of this. But like just like the 3:08:50.560 --> 3:08:53.800 party's base and the Tesla protests were very effective and 3:08:53.920 --> 3:08:56.080 like negative polarizing opinion of him. 3:08:56.120 --> 3:09:01.040 Negative, people really really dislike him, Like worldwide, everyone hates it. 3:09:01.280 --> 3:09:03.679 She cost right wing parties. 3:09:03.320 --> 3:09:07.120 Elections and countries that like, yeah, he's never been taggering 3:09:07.959 --> 3:09:12.400 staggering like she she may have accidentally saved Germany from 3:09:12.440 --> 3:09:13.800 fascism for like a decade. 3:09:15.360 --> 3:09:18.360 It's very funny, you know, critical support to the to 3:09:18.720 --> 3:09:21.760 the fascist carmaker who saves Germany from fascism. 3:09:21.959 --> 3:09:24.760 Yeah yeah, and then so okay, so we we've we've 3:09:24.800 --> 3:09:27.160 been coming up to like the end of his appointment 3:09:27.240 --> 3:09:29.120 as like a special What the fuck was the name 3:09:29.120 --> 3:09:30.520 of the term special government employee? 3:09:30.680 --> 3:09:32.200 H special government employe? Oh it was special. I was 3:09:32.200 --> 3:09:32.600 gonna say that. 3:09:32.640 --> 3:09:34.640 Then I was like, it can't be called special government employee. 3:09:34.680 --> 3:09:36.039 We call it age. 3:09:38.080 --> 3:09:38.280 Ski. 3:09:38.600 --> 3:09:42.520 Okay, well, James, you can't say that. No, no, you can't. 3:09:42.560 --> 3:09:43.439 I've been canceled. 3:09:43.600 --> 3:09:45.480 But there was always a question of like what exactly 3:09:45.560 --> 3:09:47.080 his role is going to be going forward once his 3:09:47.160 --> 3:09:51.200 time is a special government employee like ran out, but 3:09:51.280 --> 3:09:58.800 then he leaves with Stephen Miller's wife. So, as we 3:09:58.920 --> 3:10:02.560 reported a previous episode, but the final break came over 3:10:02.600 --> 3:10:06.120 the weekend over the budget, big beautiful budget, and Elon 3:10:06.240 --> 3:10:09.560 has been pissed off at this budget for like a while, 3:10:10.800 --> 3:10:13.879 and over the weekend he finally starts straight up doing 3:10:14.040 --> 3:10:16.120 like kill the budget posting and telling people to like 3:10:16.160 --> 3:10:18.040 call their senators to kill the budget instead of just 3:10:18.080 --> 3:10:21.320 saying it's bad. And this is I think actually an 3:10:21.320 --> 3:10:22.440 important thing to note here, like. 3:10:22.480 --> 3:10:25.680 Like actively campaigning against the budget bill and yeah, yeah, 3:10:25.840 --> 3:10:29.560 which is essentially Trump's like core policy at this point. 3:10:29.600 --> 3:10:31.720 It's like the to the way to push through a 3:10:31.760 --> 3:10:33.880 whole bunch of the stuff that he can't just do 3:10:34.080 --> 3:10:37.240 himself as president. Yep, is just trojan horse through this 3:10:37.320 --> 3:10:40.720 budget bill. Yeah, and and and this gets too. 3:10:40.760 --> 3:10:42.920 I think something that's like a kind of important split 3:10:43.000 --> 3:10:45.160 in the Republican Party right now about this budget, which 3:10:45.160 --> 3:10:47.800 is that like Musk is a is a budget deficit 3:10:47.879 --> 3:10:50.360 true believer, right, Like yes, he and his guls are 3:10:50.400 --> 3:10:54.120 trying to destroy the federal government because like ideologically they 3:10:54.160 --> 3:10:56.280 don't think it should really exist except for like as 3:10:56.320 --> 3:10:57.800 a tool to hand the money, as a tool to 3:10:57.879 --> 3:11:01.000 like shoot people who they don't like. But he is 3:11:01.280 --> 3:11:03.800 part of this cadra of tech people. And this is 3:11:03.920 --> 3:11:05.600 very very common in these tech circles, and you see 3:11:05.600 --> 3:11:08.200 that in some finance circles of these people who believe 3:11:08.240 --> 3:11:10.840 that the US is about to like enter like the 3:11:10.959 --> 3:11:14.440 super Great Depression because the the amount of the GDP 3:11:14.680 --> 3:11:17.720 being spent on debt payments is too high, and so 3:11:17.840 --> 3:11:20.200 they think if they don't like stop this right now. 3:11:20.360 --> 3:11:21.880 And this is partially why they are trying to like 3:11:22.040 --> 3:11:24.760 crash the economy, because they thought that if you crash 3:11:24.840 --> 3:11:26.640 the economy and you did all this terrift stuff or 3:11:26.680 --> 3:11:27.320 like whatever. 3:11:27.720 --> 3:11:30.480 It would it would decrease the cost of of US borrowing. 3:11:30.800 --> 3:11:32.600 Now that didn't happen, right, The interest rates of the 3:11:32.640 --> 3:11:35.440 bond shot up because everyone was like, holy fuck, these 3:11:35.600 --> 3:11:38.360 like absolute maniacs aren't gonna pay their debt, so you know, 3:11:38.520 --> 3:11:40.840 none of the shit is working. But they are like 3:11:41.000 --> 3:11:43.560 true believers on this yeah right, And this is again, 3:11:43.640 --> 3:11:45.640 this is very very very common in tech circles, like 3:11:45.640 --> 3:11:48.560 these people who like are are really like, oh God, 3:11:48.600 --> 3:11:51.320 the US is gonna die unless we like yeah, like 3:11:51.520 --> 3:11:54.000 unless we start just like destroying the national debt. 3:11:54.120 --> 3:11:57.800 And the whole DOGE idea is built around like terminal 3:11:57.879 --> 3:12:01.520 tech brain and it's it's it's trying to apply the 3:12:01.720 --> 3:12:05.600 logic of these like startups that are kind of scams, 3:12:05.959 --> 3:12:08.720 but trying to apply the logic of startups to an 3:12:08.840 --> 3:12:12.640 entire government. And there was an interview NPR this week 3:12:12.959 --> 3:12:15.720 where they talked to a DOGE employee. Oh yeah, he 3:12:15.800 --> 3:12:18.720 has an ex DOGE employee, and NPR asked about how 3:12:18.800 --> 3:12:22.360 much fraud and abuse they were actually able to find, 3:12:22.760 --> 3:12:25.240 and he said, quote, I did not find the federal 3:12:25.280 --> 3:12:28.120 government to be rife with waste, fraud and abuse. I 3:12:28.240 --> 3:12:30.720 was expecting some more easy wins. I was hoping for 3:12:30.800 --> 3:12:33.200 opportunity to cut waste, fraud and abuse, and I do 3:12:33.320 --> 3:12:35.760 believe that there is a lot of waste, there's minimal 3:12:35.840 --> 3:12:39.440 amounts of fraud and abuse to me feels relatively nonexistent. 3:12:39.760 --> 3:12:41.959 And the reason is, I think we have a bias 3:12:42.040 --> 3:12:44.320 as people coming from the tech industry where we worked 3:12:44.360 --> 3:12:47.320 at companies you know, such as Google, Facebook, these companies 3:12:47.360 --> 3:12:49.680 that have plenty of money, are funded by investors and 3:12:49.800 --> 3:12:53.640 have lots of people kind of sitting around and doing nothinguote. 3:12:54.120 --> 3:12:56.000 So his idea that the government must be full of 3:12:56.120 --> 3:12:58.640 like fraud and abuse is because that's just how tech 3:12:58.720 --> 3:13:02.080 companies work, and that the government works the same as 3:13:02.080 --> 3:13:04.040 a tech company. Yeah, and I think Elon have views 3:13:04.160 --> 3:13:06.320 this the exact same way. That's why he was doing 3:13:06.720 --> 3:13:09.640 his like Twitter takeover stuff to the government. Yeah, is 3:13:09.800 --> 3:13:12.039 he believed that's how it actually functions, and it doesn't. 3:13:12.120 --> 3:13:15.400 That's not really how the federal gureacracy functions. Like these 3:13:15.400 --> 3:13:17.360 people have just like eaten the fucking kool aid, right, 3:13:17.440 --> 3:13:21.280 Like none of the Republicans actually believed that like the 3:13:21.440 --> 3:13:24.360 US like economy functions like a pocketbook, Like none of 3:13:24.360 --> 3:13:26.720 them believe that you're because it's not true, right, Like 3:13:26.800 --> 3:13:29.400 you don't print your own money, so of course the 3:13:29.480 --> 3:13:31.600 US government doesn't find it like a pocketbook. But like, 3:13:32.040 --> 3:13:34.119 this is the generation of people where like the people 3:13:34.160 --> 3:13:37.560 who are just so absolutely pilled on the ideology have 3:13:37.720 --> 3:13:40.879 taken over. But on the other hand, there is Trump, 3:13:41.000 --> 3:13:43.640 and Trump doesn't give off fuck about any of this, right, Like, 3:13:44.040 --> 3:13:46.880 the faction that Trump here is representing is the faction 3:13:47.000 --> 3:13:49.560 of capitalists who just wants tax cuts. You don't give 3:13:49.560 --> 3:13:52.640 off fuck about like all of this weird tech brain stuff. 3:13:52.840 --> 3:13:56.920 Like they elected Trump with the mandate of handing them 3:13:56.959 --> 3:13:59.560 trillions of dollars in these formuli tax cuts, and that's 3:13:59.560 --> 3:14:01.840 all they can about. And we're getting a giant conflict 3:14:01.879 --> 3:14:04.800 between them because as much as Trump has just sort 3:14:04.800 --> 3:14:06.760 of been like lying about the budget numbers or whatever 3:14:06.800 --> 3:14:09.959 the fuck, if you're one of these actual budget off people, 3:14:09.959 --> 3:14:11.280 you can just look at the budget and go, this 3:14:11.440 --> 3:14:13.560 is going to increase the debt by like two trillion 3:14:13.560 --> 3:14:17.800 dollars or whatever the fuck, right, And it's revealed a 3:14:17.840 --> 3:14:19.640 sort of pre existing source of tension inside of the 3:14:19.680 --> 3:14:22.360 base between the sort of tech people and a lot 3:14:22.400 --> 3:14:24.200 of the rest of sectors are capital which aren't as 3:14:24.240 --> 3:14:28.960 ideologically pilled. So let's get into all of the actual 3:14:29.080 --> 3:14:32.800 shit because it's very funny. So Business Insider put together 3:14:32.840 --> 3:14:34.680 a really good minute by minute timeline if you want 3:14:34.720 --> 3:14:36.440 to do that. I'm not going through this shit minute 3:14:36.440 --> 3:14:36.840 by minute. 3:14:37.120 --> 3:14:38.400 I'm not gonna go through minute by minute. 3:14:38.400 --> 3:14:38.600 I am. 3:14:38.720 --> 3:14:41.760 I am going to go through tweet by tweet. Tweets. 3:14:42.360 --> 3:14:44.920 We have to talk about the tweets. The first time 3:14:45.200 --> 3:14:48.760 I've ever really wanted to say that they're so good. Yeah, 3:14:48.959 --> 3:14:51.680 the first big tweet, and this was, you know, amongst 3:14:51.959 --> 3:14:55.000 Elon crashing out about the budget bill and talking about 3:14:55.040 --> 3:14:59.000 how he's going to cancel certain SpaceX SpaceX projects. But 3:14:59.120 --> 3:15:02.520 the first big tweet from Elon was time to drop 3:15:02.760 --> 3:15:05.960 the really big bomb at real Donald Trump is in 3:15:06.120 --> 3:15:09.320 the Epstein files. That is the real reason they have 3:15:09.400 --> 3:15:12.320 not been made public. Have a nice day, Donald J. Trump. 3:15:13.040 --> 3:15:15.080 Mark this place. In the future, the truth will come out. 3:15:15.760 --> 3:15:18.640 So this is the really big one, as Elon says, 3:15:18.760 --> 3:15:19.680 the really big Bob. 3:15:20.640 --> 3:15:24.800 I actually think this, in the long run could be 3:15:24.920 --> 3:15:27.800 one of the most important aspects of this entire fight, 3:15:28.400 --> 3:15:32.840 because the right is incredibly conspiracy brained. They've all been 3:15:32.920 --> 3:15:35.360 like hyped up on this, like Epstein pill shit, and 3:15:35.520 --> 3:15:38.160 like specifically on like the Trump's gonna release Epstein files 3:15:38.160 --> 3:15:41.160 and show all the Democrats, right, but they've always had 3:15:41.240 --> 3:15:43.760 like the psychological block about talking about the fact that 3:15:43.879 --> 3:15:48.000 like Trump and Epstein are the most connected motherfuckers anyone's 3:15:48.000 --> 3:15:48.280 ever been. 3:15:48.480 --> 3:15:49.160 I'm gonna read this. 3:15:49.360 --> 3:15:52.279 There's a very famous quote from a New York magazine 3:15:52.320 --> 3:15:54.160 article that's like Trump talking to a bunch of people 3:15:54.959 --> 3:15:59.080 at like a meeting. Quote I've known jeff for fifteen years, 3:15:59.240 --> 3:16:02.400 terrific guide, Trump booms from a speakerphone. He's a lot 3:16:02.440 --> 3:16:04.880 of fun to be with. It is even said that 3:16:04.959 --> 3:16:07.120 he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and 3:16:07.240 --> 3:16:09.119 many of them are on the younger side, no doubt 3:16:09.120 --> 3:16:11.800 about it. Jeffrey enjoys his social life so like he 3:16:12.080 --> 3:16:15.880 knew right he was trans ages, Yeah, some two doesn't two, 3:16:16.720 --> 3:16:19.039 Like he's He's on Epstein's fucking. 3:16:18.920 --> 3:16:22.520 Plain like he is, like everyone know exists, right, Like 3:16:22.560 --> 3:16:24.920 everyone except everyone knows this, right, everyone except for like 3:16:25.000 --> 3:16:28.800 the weirdo QAnon right understands this, And some of the 3:16:28.879 --> 3:16:30.960 young on people try to justify this as being like no, 3:16:31.080 --> 3:16:33.040 Trump was like you know, a deep mold, a deep 3:16:33.160 --> 3:16:35.880 plant who got in close with with Epstein, so that 3:16:36.080 --> 3:16:39.440 we could eventually round up and arrest all the Democrat pedophiles. Right, 3:16:39.440 --> 3:16:41.080 that's what they try to justify it. But now that 3:16:41.240 --> 3:16:44.440 that sort of like specific Q and on logic doesn't 3:16:44.480 --> 3:16:47.520 really exist as much on the right anymore. Yeah, Now 3:16:47.600 --> 3:16:50.160 people just like memory hole, especially the right, they just 3:16:50.240 --> 3:16:53.080 memory hole that like Trump and Epstein were best buddies. 3:16:53.320 --> 3:16:55.000 Yeah, and like and and this is the thing, it's 3:16:55.040 --> 3:16:56.840 been impossible. We'll talk about on the right, you just 3:16:56.879 --> 3:17:00.800 can't do it right. Yeah, And suddenly on Musk, who 3:17:00.920 --> 3:17:04.440 is a guy who like is capable of shifting what 3:17:04.560 --> 3:17:08.160 right wing discourse is, It's suddenly like, yeah, this guy's 3:17:08.160 --> 3:17:08.680 a pedophile. 3:17:09.040 --> 3:17:09.920 I want to read this. 3:17:10.160 --> 3:17:13.280 This, this post that Trump made has response to this, right, 3:17:14.000 --> 3:17:16.720 I missed this when this happens. I've only seen this 3:17:16.800 --> 3:17:19.960 in the business inside of reporting, so on truth social 3:17:20.240 --> 3:17:24.480 Trump's response to this was to post it or to 3:17:25.000 --> 3:17:25.760 truth truth. 3:17:25.840 --> 3:17:26.120 Thank you. 3:17:27.879 --> 3:17:32.760 Of David Shoon, who tweeted this quote. I was hired 3:17:32.760 --> 3:17:35.640 to lead Jeffrey f Stein's defense as his criminal lawyer 3:17:35.840 --> 3:17:38.720 nine days before he died. He sought my advice for 3:17:38.879 --> 3:17:43.520 months before that. I can authoritatively, unequivocally and definitively say 3:17:43.600 --> 3:17:47.400 he has no information to hurt President Trump. I specifically 3:17:47.520 --> 3:17:48.160 asked him. 3:17:48.120 --> 3:17:49.000 Yeah, that sounds legit. 3:17:49.360 --> 3:17:52.560 This is one of the most unhinged posts I have 3:17:52.959 --> 3:17:53.720 ever seen. 3:17:54.400 --> 3:17:56.840 This genuinely, this is this is not a joke. 3:17:56.920 --> 3:17:59.880 If you if you are a fucking poster and you 3:18:00.000 --> 3:18:03.040 you are like, what can my contribution to like the 3:18:03.160 --> 3:18:07.280 future of democracy be? You need to push this shit 3:18:07.680 --> 3:18:10.680 into the unhinged like fucking like the depths of like 3:18:10.800 --> 3:18:13.400 fucking eight chan right like into into like the fucking 3:18:13.520 --> 3:18:16.080 breeding layers of the most unhinged right wing spaces in 3:18:16.120 --> 3:18:18.960 the world. You need to be going in and just 3:18:19.120 --> 3:18:22.120 injecting this shit straight into their fucking brains. You you 3:18:22.320 --> 3:18:25.199 need to be like like just like just just hyping 3:18:25.280 --> 3:18:29.080 them up on the most unhinged conspiracies about Trump being 3:18:29.600 --> 3:18:33.000 like a fucking like being a fucking Epstein guy, because 3:18:34.000 --> 3:18:38.400 this is completely unhinged, Like what do you mean. His 3:18:38.600 --> 3:18:42.280 defense lawyer, who was hired nine days before he died, 3:18:42.879 --> 3:18:46.120 is supposed to have specifically asked him about Trump and 3:18:46.280 --> 3:18:48.640 the and Trump's response to being called a pedophile is 3:18:48.640 --> 3:18:51.520 to go to this guy fucking inject that shit into 3:18:51.600 --> 3:18:54.200 right wing discourse. We know four Chan does this the 3:18:54.280 --> 3:18:56.200 leftist discourse all the time and injects like the worst 3:18:56.200 --> 3:18:58.000 discourses of all time, fucking do it to them. 3:18:59.400 --> 3:19:01.360 It is odd how this was really the first thing 3:19:01.400 --> 3:19:04.560 that breaks through this block. On the right, you had 3:19:04.840 --> 3:19:08.440 Alex Jones like freaking out on Twitter being quote, God 3:19:08.640 --> 3:19:13.360 help us all ye oh yay, Kanye was freaking out. 3:19:13.520 --> 3:19:16.240 Cat Turn was crashing out on the timeline. It was 3:19:16.320 --> 3:19:19.800 really bizarre. Trump's immediate response was saying, quote, I don't 3:19:19.879 --> 3:19:22.640 mind Elon turning against me, but he should have done 3:19:22.680 --> 3:19:24.600 so months ago. This is one of the greatest bills 3:19:24.640 --> 3:19:27.200 ever presented to Congress, and then goes on to talk 3:19:27.240 --> 3:19:29.360 about how great the bill is. 3:19:30.360 --> 3:19:30.880 It's wild. 3:19:31.040 --> 3:19:35.840 You had Ian Miles Chong tweeting about Elon versus the 3:19:35.920 --> 3:19:38.400 president who will win my money is on Elon Trump 3:19:38.400 --> 3:19:41.400 should be impeached and Jadvan should replace him with Elon 3:19:41.520 --> 3:19:48.440 Musk boosting this claim saying yes, yeah. 3:19:48.320 --> 3:19:50.400 It's pretty good. It says pretty funny. 3:19:50.959 --> 3:19:55.320 Something that's extremely indicative of the current cultural moment that 3:19:55.440 --> 3:19:58.720 we are at is during this spat, when when things 3:19:58.840 --> 3:20:03.400 really broke out on on Twitter and truth social During 3:20:03.560 --> 3:20:06.440 during this spat, both the Vice President of the United 3:20:06.480 --> 3:20:08.840 States and the director of the FBI were on two 3:20:08.959 --> 3:20:13.040 separate podcasts and got to live react to this. 3:20:14.760 --> 3:20:15.760 That's very funny. 3:20:16.000 --> 3:20:19.000 Unfortunately, I am going to play the clip. I will 3:20:19.080 --> 3:20:24.000 start with JD. Vance reacting live on a podcast by 3:20:24.160 --> 3:20:25.760 someone named THEO Vaughn. 3:20:26.200 --> 3:20:28.760 Here here's here's my basic reaction to like all this 3:20:28.840 --> 3:20:33.960 stuff is luck. First of all, like absolutely not. Donald 3:20:33.959 --> 3:20:37.080 Trump didn't do anything wrong with Jeffrey Epstein. Like there's 3:20:37.920 --> 3:20:41.320 the guy is whatever the Democrats in the media says 3:20:41.320 --> 3:20:44.360 about him, that's totally bs. Here here's my basic my 3:20:44.480 --> 3:20:46.600 basic read on it. First of all, I'm the vice 3:20:46.640 --> 3:20:48.920 president's President Trump. My loyalties are always going to. 3:20:48.920 --> 3:20:49.560 Be with the President. 3:20:50.200 --> 3:20:54.280 And I think that Elon, he's an incredible entrepreneur. He's 3:20:54.320 --> 3:20:56.680 actually done I think does was really good. This sort 3:20:56.720 --> 3:20:59.240 of effort to root out waste fraud abuse in our 3:20:59.280 --> 3:21:02.480 country is really good good And and look, man, I'm 3:21:02.600 --> 3:21:04.680 always going to be loyal to the President, and I 3:21:04.800 --> 3:21:07.720 hope that eventually Elon kind of comes back into the fold. 3:21:08.200 --> 3:21:11.119 Maybe that's not possible now because he's gone so nuclear. 3:21:11.400 --> 3:21:14.400 I hope it is, do you know why? 3:21:14.680 --> 3:21:14.880 Yeah? 3:21:14.959 --> 3:21:18.400 I mean so, look, I think number one. 3:21:19.080 --> 3:21:22.160 Elon's new to politics, right, So part of it is 3:21:22.600 --> 3:21:25.400 this guy got into politics and it has suffered a 3:21:25.440 --> 3:21:28.680 lot for it. But I mean, I and I get 3:21:28.959 --> 3:21:31.200 the frustration there, and I get the frustration that. I mean, look, 3:21:31.560 --> 3:21:34.800 Congress got the spending bill, but the main purpose of 3:21:34.840 --> 3:21:37.240 the bill is not actually spending or cutting spending, though 3:21:37.240 --> 3:21:39.440 it does cut a lot of spending. The main purpose 3:21:39.480 --> 3:21:41.400 of the bill is to prevent the biggest tax increase. 3:21:41.680 --> 3:21:43.440 But I understand, like it's a good bill, it's not 3:21:43.520 --> 3:21:46.440 a perfect bill. Like the process in DC. If you're 3:21:46.480 --> 3:21:48.680 a business leader, you probably get frustrated with that process 3:21:48.800 --> 3:21:51.680 because it's more you know, bureaucratic, it's more slow moving. 3:21:52.040 --> 3:21:55.120 So I think there's just some frustrations there. But I 3:21:55.280 --> 3:21:57.280 I really, man, I think it's a huge mistake for 3:21:57.320 --> 3:21:59.320 him to go after the president like that. And I 3:21:59.640 --> 3:22:03.200 think that if he and the president are in some 3:22:03.360 --> 3:22:05.720 blood feud, most importantly, it's going to be bad for 3:22:05.800 --> 3:22:07.720 the country. But I think it's gonna be I don't 3:22:07.720 --> 3:22:08.960 think it's gonna be good for eeln either. 3:22:10.040 --> 3:22:14.120 So that's jd Vance's reaction to this. He eventually got 3:22:14.160 --> 3:22:16.360 put onto like damage control. We'll talk about that in 3:22:16.440 --> 3:22:20.240 a sec What is more interesting to me is Cash 3:22:20.320 --> 3:22:23.440 Pattel's reaction, because Patel's been taking fire from the right 3:22:23.640 --> 3:22:27.280 for being a little bit soft on the promise of 3:22:27.360 --> 3:22:31.080 releasing the full Epstein files, trying to downplay the extent 3:22:31.160 --> 3:22:33.360 of the files and say there's really nothing in there 3:22:33.440 --> 3:22:36.480 that's super notable. And this has gotten him in trouble 3:22:36.520 --> 3:22:39.840 because him and people like Dan Bongino have for years 3:22:40.120 --> 3:22:42.920 made a living out of talking about how the Epstein 3:22:42.959 --> 3:22:46.240 files is going to ruin the Democratic Party. They have 3:22:46.320 --> 3:22:48.320 all of this evidence, all this footage, and now that 3:22:48.400 --> 3:22:51.000 these guys are in power, they're simply not talking about 3:22:51.040 --> 3:22:53.160 this issue. And this has got some of the Q 3:22:53.320 --> 3:22:56.880 and on right upset, and Cash Ptel's reaction to this 3:22:57.200 --> 3:23:02.440 is frankly baffling. I'm not participating in that conversation. 3:23:03.640 --> 3:23:05.320 Have a nice day, DD. 3:23:05.520 --> 3:23:06.720 So much takets fall away. 3:23:06.560 --> 3:23:08.439 There going back and forth about different things. 3:23:08.280 --> 3:23:12.160 And yeah, he said he was disappointing elon ye want 3:23:12.200 --> 3:23:13.440 to leave Jesus Christ. 3:23:13.480 --> 3:23:15.520 That's a crazy thing to say. How does he know? 3:23:15.959 --> 3:23:18.080 Does he know that Donald Trump is in the Epstein 3:23:18.120 --> 3:23:19.680 files or does he have access to them? 3:23:20.440 --> 3:23:22.040 I don't know how he would, but I'm just staying 3:23:22.080 --> 3:23:23.880 out of the trump elon thing. 3:23:23.959 --> 3:23:25.160 That's way outside of my life. 3:23:25.440 --> 3:23:25.680 Are they? 3:23:26.920 --> 3:23:28.920 I know my lane and that ain't What do you mean, 3:23:29.000 --> 3:23:31.440 isn't your lane? You're the director of the FBI, you 3:23:31.480 --> 3:23:34.800 are in charge of the Epstein files. This specifically is 3:23:34.959 --> 3:23:39.119 your lane. This, this one thing is actually your late 3:23:39.520 --> 3:23:42.240 it's unhinged. Oh my god. 3:23:42.879 --> 3:23:44.520 His big thing now is yes to wear a hunting 3:23:44.600 --> 3:23:46.840 camera all the time. I guess that says his new lane. 3:23:47.320 --> 3:23:48.959 So after the heat of this started to die down, 3:23:49.040 --> 3:23:51.200 you started to get more of the right to try to, 3:23:51.480 --> 3:23:55.040 I guess, soothe the tension. A lot of a lot 3:23:55.040 --> 3:23:58.160 of people trying to trying to talk about coming together. 3:23:58.560 --> 3:24:00.600 You had right wing commentators trying to frame this as 3:24:00.920 --> 3:24:03.760 two alpha males beefing, right, this is this is just 3:24:03.840 --> 3:24:07.440 how you just how alpha males be. We got We've 3:24:07.440 --> 3:24:11.440 got to quote some of these because Jack Pasovic famously said, 3:24:11.959 --> 3:24:15.080 some of y'all can't handle two high agency males going 3:24:15.120 --> 3:24:18.720 at it. And it really shows this is direct communication 3:24:19.200 --> 3:24:25.000 fallow centric versus indirect communication. Guy no centric, I understand 3:24:25.160 --> 3:24:29.520 you aren't used to it. Wonderful stuff from Pasovic. As usual. 3:24:30.480 --> 3:24:33.040 You also had our friends at the New Norm posting 3:24:33.120 --> 3:24:37.000 videos about trying to solve this dispute through a dancing competition. 3:24:37.240 --> 3:24:37.879 Roll the clip. 3:24:41.760 --> 3:24:44.000 Can't we all just get along? 3:24:44.760 --> 3:24:49.600 We've got to cook you to say, hey. 3:24:49.480 --> 3:24:52.119 I do find it odd that a lot of people's 3:24:52.200 --> 3:24:56.160 innate reaction after the heat died down was even if 3:24:56.440 --> 3:24:59.840 Elon Musk is semi credibly accusing the president of being 3:24:59.879 --> 3:25:02.960 a pedophile, can't we just all get along together? I 3:25:03.000 --> 3:25:05.760 don't know why we can't just get along? This is 3:25:06.040 --> 3:25:10.440 this is hurting the country. And Elon's like remark about 3:25:10.520 --> 3:25:12.800 Trump being in the files is in and of itself 3:25:13.120 --> 3:25:15.960 just kind of baffling from Elon's perspective, because he was 3:25:16.160 --> 3:25:19.280 bragging in tweets about how he is responsible for Trump 3:25:19.360 --> 3:25:22.360 being elected, and Trump was then having to respond to 3:25:22.440 --> 3:25:25.000 that by claiming that they would have won the election 3:25:25.120 --> 3:25:28.039 without Elon. But Elon was saying that without him, Trump 3:25:28.040 --> 3:25:30.880 would have lost the election right after he called him 3:25:30.879 --> 3:25:34.480 a pedophile, which is super interesting because it's essentially Musk 3:25:34.560 --> 3:25:38.080 saying I'm fine with making sure a pedophile gets elected president, 3:25:38.240 --> 3:25:41.720 but I draw the line at a bad spending bill. Yeah, Yeah, 3:25:42.360 --> 3:25:45.959 that's really what is too much for him. The implication 3:25:46.160 --> 3:25:48.320 is that if he didn't get essentially shafted from the 3:25:48.320 --> 3:25:50.040 White House, he just would have kept this a secret. 3:25:50.080 --> 3:25:52.760 And he's like okay with working with Trump otherwise except 3:25:52.760 --> 3:25:55.320 for the bad bill And maybe he's maybe he's butt 3:25:55.400 --> 3:25:59.640 heard about Trump threatening to terminate his governmental subsidies and contracts. 3:26:00.320 --> 3:26:03.320 But like, come on, elon, this is crazy. 3:26:04.120 --> 3:26:07.360 Yeah, yeah, not the most well considered. It is fantastic 3:26:07.440 --> 3:26:09.920 that the richest man in the world is addicted to 3:26:10.040 --> 3:26:13.680 posting because we get some real we get some real banging. 3:26:13.440 --> 3:26:15.879 Posters, posters madness. It never never fails. 3:26:15.959 --> 3:26:19.680 I gotta say, though, Trump's posting response terrible. This guy 3:26:19.720 --> 3:26:22.560 has washed There's nothing there. He's fucking gone mentally like 3:26:22.680 --> 3:26:25.000 he could have fucking get like even twenty twenty. Trump 3:26:25.120 --> 3:26:26.920 just destroys him in one tweet like none of this 3:26:27.080 --> 3:26:28.680 is He's there's nothing left there. 3:26:28.680 --> 3:26:33.400 He's a shell. Now. They have now been making attempts 3:26:33.480 --> 3:26:37.600 to fold the team back together. It was reported recently 3:26:37.720 --> 3:26:39.840 that actually on Friday night, which was the day after 3:26:40.040 --> 3:26:42.960 this spat on unfolded on Twitter, but a Friday night 3:26:43.080 --> 3:26:45.440 jd Vance and White House chap of staff Susie Willis 3:26:45.800 --> 3:26:49.920 had a call with Elon to de escalate the conflict. Eventually, 3:26:50.040 --> 3:26:53.279 Elon has started deleting some of his more inflammatory tweets 3:26:53.320 --> 3:26:58.120 about the president coward and has now posted quote, I 3:26:58.400 --> 3:27:01.840 regret some of my posts about President Trump last week. 3:27:02.040 --> 3:27:03.440 They went too far. 3:27:05.000 --> 3:27:06.960 I said the thing that I wasn't supposed to say. 3:27:07.200 --> 3:27:10.760 So he got us stern talking to by Jade Vance, 3:27:11.400 --> 3:27:14.720 who is kind of caught in between Trump and Musk 3:27:14.800 --> 3:27:18.080 here but has stated that his loyalties will will always 3:27:18.120 --> 3:27:20.600 lie with the President. So yeah, that is the current 3:27:20.680 --> 3:27:24.120 state of the Musk and Trump fallout. It will not 3:27:24.240 --> 3:27:26.640 be able to go back to how it was, but 3:27:26.879 --> 3:27:30.600 they might try to play nice again. Yep, I think 3:27:30.800 --> 3:27:33.480 that does it for us here at it could happen here. 3:27:34.400 --> 3:27:35.360 We reported the news. 3:27:36.440 --> 3:27:37.360 We reported the news. 3:27:43.680 --> 3:27:46.800 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:27:46.920 --> 3:27:48.760 from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:27:49.560 --> 3:27:52.040 It could happen here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:27:52.240 --> 3:27:55.280 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:27:55.360 --> 3:27:57.920 fool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 3:27:57.959 --> 3:28:01.840 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 3:28:02.320 --> 3:28:04.240 You can now find sources for it could happen here, 3:28:04.280 --> 3:28:07.240 listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening,