1
00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:03,120
Speaker 1: Also media.

2
00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,760
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

3
00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,480
Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

4
00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,719
Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

5
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

6
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,040
Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

7
00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,000
Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

8
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

9
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

10
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,200
Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to the podcast. It's me James today,

11
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,879
Speaker 1: and I'm joined by my friend and yours, Charles McBride,

12
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:40,440
Speaker 1: documentary filmmaker, humanitarian activist, writer. And you've just been in Palestine,

13
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 1: is that right, Charles, Yeah, just got back like a

14
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,360
Speaker 1: week and a half ago. Nice, welcome, Welcome to America

15
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,159
Speaker 1: and the Free Damn, that's a rough transition. Actually, thank

16
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 1: you for Thank you for joining us so soon after

17
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 1: you got back. So there's a lot to talk about, right,

18
00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,080
Speaker 1: Like I feel as if, in like legacy me the

19
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,240
Speaker 1: year when there is less discussion of Palestine recently, maybe

20
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 1: just because I'm seeing so much domestic US coverage like

21
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,520
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven, right, we're in another like Trump

22
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,840
Speaker 1: news cycle. But yeah, especially with reference to the West Bank. Actually, like,

23
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,560
Speaker 1: can you look update people on the last maybe you know,

24
00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 1: maybe in the time you were there, and then what's

25
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:21,680
Speaker 1: suspected what's happening in the West Bank.

26
00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,679
Speaker 3: I think that's going to be even less coverage. Sure,

27
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,680
Speaker 3: So I've taken two tricks for the West Bank in

28
00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 3: the past year. Yeah, So August of last year May

29
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 3: of this year. I noticed a rapid deterioration just between

30
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,200
Speaker 3: those two time periods. So, I mean it was bad

31
00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,960
Speaker 3: last year when we went. That was right when I

32
00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,040
Speaker 3: was when my team went there to begin our documentary,

33
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 3: they had just launched this new operation in the West Bank,

34
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,840
Speaker 3: which was pretty much the largest ground operation they launched

35
00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 3: Israelis had launched since the second Endebata, and it was

36
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 3: targeted at the northern refugee camps of Focam, Nurse Shams,

37
00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 3: and Jeanine. A lot of people know Janine, they've heard

38
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,600
Speaker 3: that in the news, you know, it's relatively familiar. Not

39
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 3: a lot of people realized that the situation in Tokyoom

40
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 3: and in Norsham's is quite similar, and those three camps

41
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,760
Speaker 3: in particular were targeted by the IDF operation. On the

42
00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,040
Speaker 3: second trip, we couldn't even We couldn't even get to

43
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,040
Speaker 3: those places, not with the unrep personnel that we were

44
00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 3: supposed to go with our documentaries on UNRUTH, the United

45
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 3: Nations Relief Works Agency for Palatign refugees. And last time

46
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,320
Speaker 3: we were there, they were able to bring us to

47
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,680
Speaker 3: the camp. They showed us where the Israelis had you know,

48
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,480
Speaker 3: bulldozed their facilities and done various air strikes in the camp.

49
00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 4: This time they.

50
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,839
Speaker 3: Couldn't even take us there. So we went to other

51
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,160
Speaker 3: camps and said camp everyone's spirits were low. Lots of

52
00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,760
Speaker 3: people were talking about West Bank annexation as if it

53
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 3: seemed like an inevitability.

54
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:47,079
Speaker 5: Yeah.

55
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I actually spent some time inside forty eight

56
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,919
Speaker 3: on this trip, and I went down to Yafa and

57
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,480
Speaker 3: to Tel Aviv and interviewed some long time kind of

58
00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 3: liberal journalists from RITZ and they we're just talking about

59
00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,680
Speaker 3: how the shift in Israeli society over the last year

60
00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,760
Speaker 3: has been quite marked as well, particularly around the question

61
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,240
Speaker 3: of just generally ethnically cleansing Gaza, which was something that was,

62
00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 3: according to his telling, like really only heard in very

63
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,920
Speaker 3: right wing circles like Kannis circles over the past a

64
00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 3: couple decades and is now just pretty routinely heard across

65
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,920
Speaker 3: the spectrum Israeli society that the best solution to this

66
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,800
Speaker 3: is should just deport everyone from Gaza.

67
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty bleak, Like I mean, I guess the

68
00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,360
Speaker 1: process of manufacturing consent has been pretty pretty successful and

69
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,480
Speaker 1: pretty complete in that sense, Like just the dehumanization of

70
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:45,040
Speaker 1: Palestinian people has been pretty successful at least there. I

71
00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,240
Speaker 1: guess if people aren't familiar, we should just like explain

72
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:52,360
Speaker 1: that Palestine is well. The areas which are now like

73
00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,520
Speaker 1: legally allotted to Palestinians, I guess, are not contiguous, right,

74
00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:00,360
Speaker 1: Jaza in the West Bank at different areas separated by Israel,

75
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,320
Speaker 1: and like the bulk of what you have seen in

76
00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 1: the last two years has been Israel's war on the

77
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,680
Speaker 1: people of Gaza, but the West Bank is a different

78
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,840
Speaker 1: and larger area which has also seen significant israelly like

79
00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:18,120
Speaker 1: military aggression and violence from settlers, right, like a paramilitary aggression.

80
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,599
Speaker 1: I guess you could call it. People I think maybe

81
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,560
Speaker 1: will have heard of ANRA or maybe will at least

82
00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 1: be familiar with seeing it. Can you explain, like what

83
00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,560
Speaker 1: the agency does. It's a unique agency, right, like it

84
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,279
Speaker 1: doesn't work anywhere else in the world. It's quite a

85
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,400
Speaker 1: unique thing to this Israel Palestine context.

86
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so ANRA is probably the most controversial UN agency,

87
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 3: and that has everything to do with the context in

88
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,719
Speaker 3: which it was founded. It was explicitly set up in

89
00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 3: coordination between the United States, the newly founded State of Israel,

90
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 3: and the Arab League coming to the United Nations and

91
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,360
Speaker 3: presenting a plan to deal with the displacement of seven

92
00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 3: hundred thousand Palestinians from their home as a result of

93
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 3: Nakba in nineteen forty eight. So out of that context,

94
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,640
Speaker 3: it's designed as a temporary aid refugee organization. It actually

95
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,200
Speaker 3: it's set up before un HCR, so it's mandated specifically

96
00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 3: for the Palestinians, and the Palestinians don't end up falling

97
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,920
Speaker 3: under un HDR when it's established. So there's a lot

98
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,640
Speaker 3: of particularities about UNRA that make it different from other

99
00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,800
Speaker 3: UN agencies, which is also something that the Israelis like

100
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,839
Speaker 3: to highlight because they're engaged in a multi decade credibility

101
00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,159
Speaker 3: campaign against UNRA.

102
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 4: But to the extent that it is.

103
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 3: Almost entirely staffed by Palestinians, it is quite different than

104
00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:48,680
Speaker 3: other un agencies, which typically involve multinationals international personnel. Now,

105
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,880
Speaker 3: a lot of the higher leadership at UNRA is still

106
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 3: kind of your same international diplomats, but in the words

107
00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,000
Speaker 3: of the Zionist academic that I interviewed for this documentary,

108
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,800
Speaker 3: most of those have quote unquote gone native. So most

109
00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:09,120
Speaker 3: of the international diplomats do tend to, you know, obviously

110
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,520
Speaker 3: be quite sympathetic to the conditions which the Palestinian staff

111
00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:17,640
Speaker 3: are are working under. So my documentary is a it's

112
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 3: an investigative documentary to some extent, and it uses the

113
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,800
Speaker 3: frame narrative of the Israeli allegations that UNRA had been

114
00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,840
Speaker 3: infiltrated by Hamas and that UNRA personnel had taken place

115
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,120
Speaker 3: in the October seventh massacre. Yeah, it uses that as

116
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,719
Speaker 3: a hook and a frame narrative to talk about what

117
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 3: is this organization?

118
00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 4: Yeah?

119
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,919
Speaker 3: Why did it go from something that was set up

120
00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,760
Speaker 3: as a temporary relief organization to seventy seven years later?

121
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,719
Speaker 3: It is responsible for maintaining the livelihood and well being

122
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,440
Speaker 3: of five point nine million registered Palestinian refugees, not only

123
00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,279
Speaker 3: in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, but also

124
00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,839
Speaker 3: in Syria. In Lebanon and in Jordan. So the politics

125
00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 3: of it get very hazy very quickly. But it's kind

126
00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,080
Speaker 3: of an inconvenient thing for everyone because the organization was

127
00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,080
Speaker 3: explicitly designed to end right after a few years. But

128
00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,240
Speaker 3: the assumption was after a few years there would have

129
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,160
Speaker 3: been a political resolution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. There

130
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,200
Speaker 3: has not been, and here we are seventy six, seventy

131
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,000
Speaker 3: seven years later and we're still at that point, so

132
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:19,120
Speaker 3: un still exists.

133
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:19,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

134
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,760
Speaker 3: One of the ironic things we've found when filming this

135
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 3: documentary is that everyone involved in this process wants this

136
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:30,120
Speaker 3: organization to go away. Yeah, Israelis, the Palestinians, the staff themselves.

137
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,520
Speaker 3: The only thing they disagree on is when and under

138
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 3: what conditions?

139
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:35,480
Speaker 4: Why?

140
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's Yeah, it's very interesting, like as

141
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,360
Speaker 1: refuge agencies go, because, like just I was recently reading

142
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 1: Sally Hayden's or rereading Sally Hayden's book about the refugees

143
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 1: in Libya. Right, it's called My Fourth Time We Drowned.

144
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:50,160
Speaker 4: It's an excellent bok.

145
00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:51,760
Speaker 1: If people haven't read it, that you read it, very

146
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,680
Speaker 1: good audiobook as well. Like that they incorporate some of

147
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:56,400
Speaker 1: the voice notes you got from the refugees, which I

148
00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,640
Speaker 1: think is good, and as it's typical of United Nations

149
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 1: refuge you workers in many areas, the bulk of them

150
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,080
Speaker 1: end up living or spending a lot of time in Tunisia, right,

151
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 1: like not in Libya and coming in like in you know,

152
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 1: the typical image that you see of the United Nations

153
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,520
Speaker 1: is like a bunch of people in white land cruisers, right,

154
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:15,920
Speaker 1: and they pull up and they do their thing and

155
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 1: they leave. They're not either part of the population or

156
00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,920
Speaker 1: or even with the population. And they're often criticized for

157
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,800
Speaker 1: this around the world, right, and they're very susceptible to

158
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: like state narratives, right like in Libya there's there's all

159
00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,400
Speaker 1: kinds of evacuations of corruption or like sort of state capture.

160
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,640
Speaker 1: I guess, so an agency that's supposed to be international

161
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,600
Speaker 1: and supposed to be impartial, and they're supposed to above

162
00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,160
Speaker 1: all things, advocate for refugees, right, And sometimes you can

163
00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,200
Speaker 1: see at tension between the IOM and the UNHCR of

164
00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,480
Speaker 1: this kind of shit. It's different with under a right

165
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,400
Speaker 1: like like they are from what I've heard from Palestinian friends,

166
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,439
Speaker 1: like more respected by Palestinian people. Because of the work

167
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,439
Speaker 1: that they do and the value that they provide.

168
00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:58,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I would say, like trust in HONRA

169
00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:04,640
Speaker 3: is probably higher than in the Palestinian authority. The PA

170
00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,000
Speaker 3: is largely seen as a contractor or subcontractor for Israel, right,

171
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,439
Speaker 3: and UNRA is seen, you know, as flawed. I mean,

172
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,960
Speaker 3: there are a lot of Palestinians who are deeply critical

173
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,959
Speaker 3: of UNRA, particularly the constant efforts it takes to sort

174
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,960
Speaker 3: of remain neutral on all of these political questions. Yeah,

175
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,360
Speaker 3: and you know, inefficiencies that are going to come with

176
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,200
Speaker 3: any multinational institution in Goo. Yeah, of course, but in

177
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,120
Speaker 3: general they seem to I mean, at this point, we've

178
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,920
Speaker 3: interviewed dozens of people who had various relationship whether they

179
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 3: had gone to UNRAS schools or they had taken you know,

180
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,520
Speaker 3: they had been to unrehealth clinics, and by and large

181
00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 3: they they preferred these and they saw the value in UNRA.

182
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,760
Speaker 3: They liked the unraschools, they liked the unrahealth clinics. UNRA

183
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 3: is largely responsible for the fact that Palestinians are one

184
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,560
Speaker 3: of the most literate populations in the Middle East, and

185
00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,040
Speaker 3: many of them speak English incredibly well. I mean like, yeah,

186
00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:01,200
Speaker 3: it's wild talking to an eight or nine year old

187
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,920
Speaker 3: girl who grew up in a refugee camp and she's

188
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,480
Speaker 3: speaking to me in perfect English talking about how she

189
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:08,880
Speaker 3: wants to move to Los Angeles and become an actress.

190
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,440
Speaker 3: And it's just it's wild. And that's kind of a

191
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,240
Speaker 3: testament to what Unner has done. And that's very inconvenient

192
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,600
Speaker 3: for Israel because when you educate a lot of refugees

193
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,160
Speaker 3: who can then learn English and turn around and speak

194
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,360
Speaker 3: to the world in very eloquent ways about the nature

195
00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,199
Speaker 3: of their oppression and their suffering, it becomes an ideological

196
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,840
Speaker 3: barrier to your particular political project.

197
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 1: Right, And this is one of the things that has

198
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,520
Speaker 1: distinguished the genocide in Gaza in terms of like how

199
00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,400
Speaker 1: it's been perceived in the US at least, Right, is that, like,

200
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,439
Speaker 1: you have a very literate population that is able to

201
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,760
Speaker 1: articulate what is happening directly via social media and to

202
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 1: traditional media, right, like to people like yourself making documentaries

203
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,840
Speaker 1: like this is distinct from populations like I think of

204
00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 1: the Rahinga right, you know, I speak to Rahinga people

205
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 1: pretty often, but I don't think most Americans see Rahingah

206
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,000
Speaker 1: folks if they go on TikTok or Instagram and you know,

207
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,600
Speaker 1: as a result, I think people would have cared as deeply.

208
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,120
Speaker 1: You know, people would have been in the streets for that.

209
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,680
Speaker 1: But that communication wasn't that And yeah, it is extremely inconvenient.

210
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,720
Speaker 1: If your project isn't an ethno state, right and you're

211
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,840
Speaker 1: willing to cleanse areas of other ethnicities to build your

212
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:30,120
Speaker 1: ethno state in it, which is what's happening, then it's

213
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,439
Speaker 1: very convenient. If there's people you're trying to cleanse can

214
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,360
Speaker 1: talk to the world, you know, in the language of

215
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,880
Speaker 1: the world, understands and very eloquently and make their case

216
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,640
Speaker 1: for not being ethnically cleansed. Yet, No, it is tribute

217
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:42,560
Speaker 1: to the work that animal has done. You know what,

218
00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,000
Speaker 1: I guess we should do. I guess we should take

219
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,000
Speaker 1: an advertising break right now. So let's do that.

220
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:48,719
Speaker 4: Wean't come back.

221
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,960
Speaker 1: All right, we are back. Let's talk about the alternative

222
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,720
Speaker 1: to UNRA. Alternative is a wrong word. Let's talk about

223
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 1: the attempt to make an end run around unrisk existence

224
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,560
Speaker 1: by installing this fascicle NGO. I guess you could call

225
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,360
Speaker 1: it an ADO or like aid provider. This is a

226
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:23,680
Speaker 1: Gaza Humanitarian Fund people who aren't familiates, synthetic alternative. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

227
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,600
Speaker 1: this sute. This is like the zin of UNRA, you know. Okay,

228
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,439
Speaker 1: so what's going on with the guy? But let's talk

229
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 1: about what it is and what it claims to do first,

230
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,640
Speaker 1: and then we'll talk about how it's not doing it

231
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,160
Speaker 1: very well or at all, like people are fucking dying

232
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:39,079
Speaker 1: in droves.

233
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, mil high View.

234
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,920
Speaker 3: UNRA maintains most of the aid going in and out

235
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,560
Speaker 3: of Gaza. Everyone I know in the humanitarian world has

236
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,040
Speaker 3: had to interface at least to some degree with UNRA

237
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,800
Speaker 3: during the aid process, and that's difficult because it has

238
00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 3: been essentially been declared a terrorist by the Israeli government

239
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,880
Speaker 3: and has been banned from operating inside what Israel considers

240
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 3: to be its territory, including occupied East Jerusalem and increasingly

241
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,000
Speaker 3: in the West Bank. They're trying to limit its operations

242
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,320
Speaker 3: and in Gaza they say they can't work with them

243
00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 3: because they're Hamas. So it's the UNER people are quite

244
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,400
Speaker 3: confused because they they've had to deconflict with the Israelis

245
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,200
Speaker 3: for this entire time and recently as a result of

246
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 3: this law. It's actually become illegal under Israeli law for

247
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,480
Speaker 3: the Israelis to coordinate with UNRA, and so the UNRA

248
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,760
Speaker 3: people don't have been actually they don't really understand what's

249
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,720
Speaker 3: going to happen. There's been some limited coordination, but still

250
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,480
Speaker 3: we talk to people who are very high up in

251
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,080
Speaker 3: the organization and they essentially had no idea what the

252
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,000
Speaker 3: Israelis were planning to do to replace UNRA or to

253
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,520
Speaker 3: coordinate with them in Gaza, and so they just kept

254
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,240
Speaker 3: kind of doing their thing until the Israelis literally made

255
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,400
Speaker 3: them stop in certain instances. Right My documentary is called

256
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,719
Speaker 3: the War on UNRA, and part of this war has

257
00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,400
Speaker 3: been the propaganda efforts and the Israelis going after this

258
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,080
Speaker 3: organization and everyone in the humanitarian aid world's sort of

259
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:05,640
Speaker 3: been asking the question, well, what are you going to

260
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,400
Speaker 3: do to replace it? This is an organization that deals

261
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 3: with like two million people in Gaza and like three

262
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 3: million in the West Bank. Not all of those are

263
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 3: registered with UNRUPP, but it's dealing with all the refugee

264
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,680
Speaker 3: camps there in Gaza itself is a refugee camp like

265
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,440
Speaker 3: it only exists as such as a result of the

266
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 3: knack Buck because it's where they put all of the

267
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 3: displaced people who weren't in Jordan. Yeah, and so the

268
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 3: Israelis basically had the backskins Wall, and they're like, okay, well,

269
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,360
Speaker 3: we have to come up with some alternative to this

270
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 3: because we can't come out and say, actually, our main

271
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,160
Speaker 3: goal is to depopulate Gaza and settle it.

272
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:37,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

273
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so they cooked up this idea of the

274
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,920
Speaker 3: Gaza Humanitarian Fund, which was kind of this public private

275
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,680
Speaker 3: partnership backed by the Israelis and the Americans, and the

276
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 3: intention was to entirely subvert not only UNRUB but the

277
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,920
Speaker 3: entire UN infrastructure that goes into the Gaza strip. For instance,

278
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,040
Speaker 3: every UN agency in the world actually piggybacks off of

279
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 3: the World Food Program because they're always the first ones in.

280
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,840
Speaker 3: So it's WFP infrastructure, trucks, you know, vehicles, everything like

281
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 3: that that goes in first, and then UNHCR, UNISEF, all

282
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,120
Speaker 3: this thing they're piggybacking, coordinating with WFP. In this instance,

283
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,040
Speaker 3: WFP is coordinating with UNRA. The Israelis one died not

284
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 3: only bypass UNRA. They want to just put the entire

285
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,400
Speaker 3: UN system out of that. So to do that, they

286
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,280
Speaker 3: formed this sort of collaborative partnership under the management of

287
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,120
Speaker 3: the Israelis, which was supposed to be kind of an

288
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,760
Speaker 3: amalgam of all of these different private NGOs. And I

289
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 3: don't want to get too much into the specifics of

290
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,040
Speaker 3: like who sort of was involved in that, but a

291
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 3: lot of people kind of took them at face value.

292
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 3: This is they wanted this to be a real solution,

293
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 3: and so they offered to help and kind of set

294
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,000
Speaker 3: up this system which was supposed to be overseen entirely

295
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,360
Speaker 3: by the Israelis and the Americans from a security perspective.

296
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:56,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

297
00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,600
Speaker 3: One of those was Jake woodho was the founder of

298
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,320
Speaker 3: Team Rubicon, which is an organization that does a fair

299
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 3: amount of excellent work all around the world. She resigned

300
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,960
Speaker 3: from the Godza Humanitarian Fund a day before it launched

301
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,240
Speaker 3: and went on record saying we cannot actually do this

302
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,200
Speaker 3: while keeping to humanitarian principles of humanity and neutrality, which

303
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,880
Speaker 3: was a signal to the world that this was a

304
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,280
Speaker 3: highly politicized project, which is precisely what the World Food

305
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,920
Speaker 3: Program under the leadership of radical leftist activist Cindy McCain

306
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 3: has been saying about this from the start, and une

307
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,360
Speaker 3: Philipe Lazarini, the head of UNRA, said, this is a

308
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,720
Speaker 3: clearly political sized event under the only the UN system

309
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 3: is the only one capable of actually dealing with this

310
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 3: in a humanitarian way. All those concerns were brushed aside.

311
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:48,040
Speaker 3: American contractors were brought in and the results were relatively predictable.

312
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,440
Speaker 3: We've seen at this point two pseudo massacres, I mean,

313
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,680
Speaker 3: the first one with that full Palastinians were killed, and

314
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,000
Speaker 3: just this morning, twenty seven Palastinians were killed at a

315
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,880
Speaker 3: GHF distribution after gunfire was opened up on them.

316
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're recording on the third a Gene so that

317
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,760
Speaker 1: was when this second massacre occurred. And yeah, like I mean,

318
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,720
Speaker 1: just today, as we're recording this, I've seen that Boston

319
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 1: Consulting Group again like not exactly, like a bastion of wokeness,

320
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 1: has terminated this relationship with the Guards Humanitarian Foundation, Right,

321
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,320
Speaker 1: Like the kind of conceit that this is a replacement

322
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 1: for UNRAH to begin with was somewhat fascical, right, But

323
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,119
Speaker 1: people who were prepared to go along with that, either

324
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,600
Speaker 1: because they can make money doing it or because they

325
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 1: thought this was the only way to stop people starving,

326
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 1: are still deciding that, having seen the way that this

327
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,960
Speaker 1: is run, it's not worth it, right, right, And there's

328
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,680
Speaker 1: also some political heavy handedness going on with this, one

329
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,960
Speaker 1: of the most obvious features being specific aid distribution points

330
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 1: in the south of Gaza, which are designed to bring

331
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,720
Speaker 1: you know, whereas UNRA and WFP were going to people,

332
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,879
Speaker 1: they were trying to get food through as much of

333
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:01,920
Speaker 1: the Kazas trip is possible, including people who wanted to

334
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,800
Speaker 1: return to their homes in the north, the JCHEF is like, nope,

335
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,119
Speaker 1: you starving population will need to make the journey to

336
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,760
Speaker 1: this distribution point. And this distribution point only, which you know,

337
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 1: has the political effect of depopulating these areas that you

338
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,560
Speaker 1: know Israel is operating in. Yeah, which of course is

339
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 1: also that criticism. There's some videos going around so Impalstinians celebrating, Yeah,

340
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 1: you know, the relief efforts of the of the JHEF.

341
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 1: I think some of them have been like verified by Reuters.

342
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 1: You know, Israeli media is making hey of that. You know,

343
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 1: people praising Trump in Gaza, right, which you know, these

344
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,359
Speaker 1: people are starving and they're very happy to get aid. Yeah,

345
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,200
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that like everything is above board and cool. Right,

346
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 1: it means that like the people who need to food

347
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:42,520
Speaker 1: got feed.

348
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and that's the political complexity. The situation

349
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 3: is that the people of Gaza have just been abandoned

350
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 3: by everyone, right, I mean, there's there's there's a lot

351
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 3: of criticism to be a had of how Hamas has

352
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,120
Speaker 3: handled this. There's a lot of criticism to be had

353
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,719
Speaker 3: of obviously the way in which Israel has behaved and

354
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,479
Speaker 3: the UN system and the international system. So I mean,

355
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 3: I'm glad that like some of them are getting food. Yeah,

356
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 3: that is that is an improvement off of none of

357
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 3: them getting food. But everyone in the AID world is

358
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,240
Speaker 3: starting to go on record saying the main problem is

359
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 3: Israel preventing AID from going into the Gaza strip. And

360
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:16,679
Speaker 3: actually I want to harp on that a little bit

361
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,360
Speaker 3: because the reason that has been given primarily for that

362
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 3: is that Hamas is stealing the aide. Every time they're

363
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,880
Speaker 3: asked about this, they go back to, well, we want

364
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,119
Speaker 3: to get aid to people Gaza. Unfortunately Hamas keeps stealing

365
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 3: the aid and so we can't allow it. We need

366
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,159
Speaker 3: to allow us to trickle in. Yeah, that's interesting for

367
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 3: two reasons. First of all, the yet to provide any

368
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 3: evidence that that's actually occurring. And second, because all humanitarian

369
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 3: experts agree that even if that was the case, say

370
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,160
Speaker 3: everything Israel said about Hamas was true, and they were stealing,

371
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,920
Speaker 3: you know, ninety ninety five percent of the aid that's

372
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 3: coming in and selling it back. The humanitarian solution to

373
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,400
Speaker 3: that would be to flood the strip with so much

374
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 3: aid that it would literally be impossible for them to

375
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 3: like to stop that, which we can't do, Like it

376
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 3: would be possible for us to flood the Gaza Strip

377
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,119
Speaker 3: with so much aid that it would be like an

378
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 3: abundance of food. So the decision not to do that

379
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 3: is a political one.

380
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely, Like I was going to say, on the

381
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,159
Speaker 1: face of it, it doesn't matter. There are lots of situations,

382
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,399
Speaker 1: to be clear, where people steal aid. It's undesirable, of

383
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 1: course it is. But yeah, the solution is more aid,

384
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,160
Speaker 1: not like unfortunately the aid has been stolen, so now

385
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,120
Speaker 1: then children must have. Yeah, that only works if you're

386
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 1: prepared to accept the outcome in which little children die

387
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: of starvation.

388
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 4: Which the Israelis are.

389
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 3: They're perfectly I mean this near was a University of

390
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 3: Pennsylvania poll. I'm not saying eighty four percent of Israelis

391
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 3: are in favor of the idea of just simply either

392
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 3: killing or displacing everyone in the Gaza strip eighty four percent.

393
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's wild to see, Like it's been such a

394
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: strange couple of years in that sense, right, because more

395
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 1: people in this country are aware of the plight of

396
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 1: the people of Palestine than ever have been, and more

397
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 1: people are engaged with it. That is mostly good. Some

398
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: people have been gaged it in a way which is

399
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 1: far from good, right, Like, I don't think there's really

400
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 1: very much to be gained. Fucking throwing molotov cocktails people

401
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 1: in Boulder is not making anything better for anyone. It's

402
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,640
Speaker 1: just making everything danger more dangerous for everyone. And it's

403
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:15,360
Speaker 1: fucking stupid.

404
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,639
Speaker 3: And I would extend that to gunning down yes, so

405
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 3: would I. Yeah, Israeli a couples outside of the Jewish

406
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 3: Museum in DC. I don't think that's necessarily the best

407
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 3: way to help people in Gaza. No, Like, yeah, standing

408
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 3: outside the vent for Jewish people and fucking shooting random people,

409
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 3: it's not that. Again, it doesn't make anyone safer, it

410
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 3: makes all of us left safe, and like, it does

411
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 3: nothing to stop people dying and starving in Gaza, and

412
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 3: that's it's not the crux of the problem, I guess,

413
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,239
Speaker 3: but like that is a problem, right that people are

414
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,120
Speaker 3: engaging with Gaza, but nothing is helping people here know

415
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 3: how bad it is that children are starving in Gaza,

416
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 3: But that hasn't changed the fact that children are starving

417
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 3: in Gaza. In fact, like you know what I've said,

418
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,199
Speaker 3: it's a lot of times like I moved her in

419
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,080
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, and I had engaged with the

420
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 3: movement before that in the UK, right and the situation

421
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 3: passtime to be was very different then, but like it

422
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 3: wasn't something that people had heard of here for the

423
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,919
Speaker 3: most part, unless you were within like certain leftist or

424
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,919
Speaker 3: sort of people of maybe they're like Middle East an

425
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 3: extraction would know about it. Of course, now people do know,

426
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 3: and all over the world people know, and we've seen

427
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 3: huge marches. Right, Like the situation is worse than it's

428
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 3: ever been, I mean not ever being the knuck Bowl

429
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 3: was pretty fucked too. But as the world looks on, right, like,

430
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 3: the gender side continues and people continue dying, and seemingly

431
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 3: the acceptance of the Gardis Humanitarian Foundation by states of

432
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 3: the world. Is really troubling, right, Like, we're concentrating this

433
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 3: starving population in a small area. It's contrary to everything

434
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 3: that humanitarian principles stand for. And I know we don't see.

435
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 3: I mean, there is a very ready alternative. It's whether

436
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 3: anyone is willing to step up and tell Israel to

437
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 3: stop stopping aid and the god like this could end

438
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 3: at least in my estimation, like very quickly. Right, we

439
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 3: have enough aid and even aid in the region to

440
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 3: feed all those people right now if we needed to. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

441
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 3: there's there's there's tens of millions of pounds of food

442
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 3: rotting and warehouses and Jordan and Egypt right now just

443
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 3: waiting to go across the border.

444
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and people dying.

445
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 3: It's the lack of political will, mostly on behalf of

446
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 3: the United States, you know, but also I think the

447
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 3: members of the Abraham Accords and the EU. Yeah, it's

448
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 3: a devastating indictment. And I think the interesting thing about

449
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 3: it is it truly pulls the mask off of the

450
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 3: quote unquote rules based world order. Yeah, the US led

451
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 3: rules based world order, because you just I mean, it's

452
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 3: just so obvious that no matter how many people want

453
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 3: this terrible thing to end. That we're seeing this very

454
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 3: obvious genocide is being livestream to our phones. The powers

455
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 3: that be are too invested to to let it stop.

456
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 3: You know, they're they're into the hill. We've already seen

457
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 3: the degree to which the United States is compromised in

458
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 3: its media and government storytelling in relation to Israel Palestine.

459
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 3: Did the long unwillingness of people to speak up about

460
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 3: this followed by the very rapid turnaround of people who

461
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 3: are now rats fleeing the ship. Yeah, they're seeing the

462
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 3: unmistakable reality of this genocide. And you know, it's like

463
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 3: everyone says, once this is done, everyone will pretend they

464
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 3: were against it from the start. And you're now starting

465
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 3: to see that, right, you know, with like the former

466
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 3: White House Press secretary.

467
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah Miller, Right yeah.

468
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 3: Miller was like, yeah, they've been committing war crimes than

469
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 3: they were doing it while I was there. But I

470
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: didn't speak on my behalf. I was speaking on behalf

471
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 3: of the United States government.

472
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, the old the old Numberg defense.

473
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 4: M hmm.

474
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, They're like, I was just doing my job thing,

475
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: which like is not actually don't actually an excuse for

476
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: participating in war crimes and like should have been an

477
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: excuse for apologizing or excusing them, right.

478
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 3: I know that you guys have talked about and that

479
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 3: we'll have spoilers for this, but I know you guys

480
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 3: have recently had a series Unpacking and Or, which is

481
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: my favorite TV show. Yeah, and I was just so

482
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 3: happy that they snuck that one line in about when

483
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 3: Cyril asks what they're doing here and she just says

484
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 3: following orders.

485
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 4: Yeah.

486
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: How often are we going to hear that in the

487
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: next few years?

488
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 4: I guess? Yeah?

489
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so predictable, right, Like every time this happens, right,

490
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: And this isn't the first time the United Nations has

491
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: basically allowed it. Genocide tappened right under its nose. No,

492
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: and it will probably won't be the last because, as

493
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: you said, right, like, the idea that we have a

494
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: rules based world order, it's a lie. It's a myth

495
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: that exists to make people feel better and feel like

496
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: this stuff couldn't happen again. But like you know, we

497
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: have ICC warrants for people who are traveling freely around

498
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: the world. It doesn't matter that the ICC can't enforce

499
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: its own warrants, right, Like you could say something to

500
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: war crime, it doesn't matter. No one's the war police

501
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: aren't going to go and arrest all the people doing it.

502
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's mostly just kind of a Yeah, it's kind

503
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 3: of a placebo. I'm not really sure what the function

504
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: it serves. I mean, I'm not a big international institutions enjoyer,

505
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 3: Like I'm deeply skeptical of the United Nations in almost

506
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 3: every one of its aspects. My team and I've talked

507
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 3: several times about the point that this documentary has that

508
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 3: weirdly like it's improved our trust in international and geos

509
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 3: just because we're seeing like the degree to which UNRA

510
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: is operating on increasingly less budget every year and still

511
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 3: managing to be effective.

512
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

513
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: I think a huge part of that is again, it

514
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 3: is staffed by the local population who are from these areas,

515
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 3: and they have a duty and a commitment to care

516
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 3: to their people.

517
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 5: Yeah.

518
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 3: But in general, no, I mean, I don't understand what

519
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: the point of the UN is if you don't give

520
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: it the US military, Like I mean, if as an anarchist,

521
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 3: I don't believe that this is a great solution to things.

522
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 3: But like, if you wanted to enforce the UN, you

523
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 3: would need the World Police, Like you would need to

524
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 3: just use the United States to like hunt down these people. Yeah,

525
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 3: and utilize it's eight hundred military bases in every country

526
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 3: to enforce these rules.

527
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: And we don't really yet we allow these things to happen.

528
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm not the big international institutions enjoy either.

529
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: Like I've seen the UN be fucking useless in most

530
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: continents that people live on. I would really like it, though,

531
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: if they would do something to stop the suffering of

532
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: the people of Palestine. Like, it doesn't mean I wouldn't

533
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: be happy. It doesn't mean I'm not happy when I

534
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: speak to guys from PK, guys that who we've had

535
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: on our show several times, right, Like when they talk

536
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: to us about like where should we send money, They'll

537
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: be like, oh, Unroawa able to get my family some

538
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: food this week or whatever. Like I'm happy to hear that,

539
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: and I'm glad that they're there, Glad that they were

540
00:27:51,840 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: there at that time. I guess, So, like what does

541
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: the future hold? The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation seems to be

542
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: falling apart within a very short period of this whole

543
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: thing being stood up, which is unsurprising, right, can you explain, like,

544
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: what does it take for a that lives up to

545
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: basic humanitarian principles to get in there?

546
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 3: I think that's a really difficult question to answer because

547
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 3: we have bribed so many options.

548
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean truly.

549
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: I mean the last time I think I was on

550
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 3: this podcast, it was to talk about my colleagues and

551
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: the World Central Kitchen who got killed in Gaza. That

552
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: was an attempt to try and alleviate the suffering of

553
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 3: Palestinian people, and it had predictable results. You know, there's

554
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 3: all these groups have been operating and there to the

555
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 3: extent that they can, and the result has been too little,

556
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 3: too late. And everyone is saying, from Sidney McCain at

557
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 3: the World Food Program, to Philip Plazarreni to you know,

558
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 3: DeAndre like from the private sector, everyone is saying, the

559
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 3: reason this is a problem has nothing to do with moths.

560
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 3: It has everything to do with about that Israel is

561
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 3: restricting the amount of aid doing to the Gaza strip.

562
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 3: And now everyone's waking up and asking the obvious question

563
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 3: of like, well, why are they actually doing that? And

564
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 3: in the answer corresponds to those polls we see that

565
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 3: indicate that, you know, yeah, fifty percent of Israeli society

566
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 3: is open to killing everyone in the Gaza strip. Eighty

567
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 3: four percent are open to displacing them all. This is

568
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: just what Israel wants, and I think the humanitarian world

569
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: is slowly swallowing that very difficult pill. And I don't

570
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 3: I can't really tell you what comes next outside of

571
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: a political resolution.

572
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, which seems higher and how to come by in

573
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: the current international climate, Like certainly it's not coming from

574
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: the US, right, Like.

575
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like something to watch would be that

576
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: Senator Welch from Vermont introduced a bill to immediately refund

577
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 3: UNROW Okay, yeah, and it has it has a House

578
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: a correlate with I think, yeah, woman Jiapaul and a

579
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 3: few others who are trying to kind of push that through.

580
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 3: I mean, the United States funds three hundred million dollars,

581
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: which is about over a third of un annual budget,

582
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: and we've restricted that funding for the past year and

583
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: a half.

584
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, so if we restore.

585
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 3: That, I think that would be a big signal to

586
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: Israel that like, we're not playing ball anymore.

587
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

588
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 3: I just think when you have a rubber stamp Congress

589
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 3: and a fascist president, that's probably unlikely to pass.

590
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: That's a big reach. Yeah, yeah, I actually think this

591
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: is an area where elected officials to the right of

592
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: Trump support its on this one. I think, like, you know,

593
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time in rural East County

594
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: San Diego, right, Like, I talk to people who have

595
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: very different politics to my own. Yeah, it's a nice

596
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: way of saying that, but like I've had people who

597
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: straight up I'm sure voted for Trump be like, man,

598
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: they're letting little children stuff, like what the fuck is wrong?

599
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: You know, Like, like, I think it's an area where

600
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: a more sensible politics would be able to build consensus.

601
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 3: But here we are, right, yeah, I mean there is

602
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 3: no opposition. Like the Democrats are not an opposition party.

603
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: They're just happy being like the junior partners in fascism.

604
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 4: Now.

605
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're having a little party today where they're giving

606
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: out tacos because they're trying to somehow encourage Trump to

607
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: go ahead with more sanctions and tariffs and more genocides.

608
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: I guess, like I don't quite know what the Trump

609
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: always chickens out think, like, well, I'm glad he's stick

610
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: it out with the tariffs, isn't Isn't that a good thing. Yeah, like, yeah, like,

611
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: what are you trying what are you trying to say here?

612
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: I think maybe I don't want to confront what they're

613
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: trying to say. But this is a thing that like

614
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: at the current time, like it needs state action to

615
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: stop it. Yeah, we do not have an organization which

616
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: which is able to mobilize people in such a way

617
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: that they can stop it, like and that is it's

618
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: really desperate if you care, right, because the states of

619
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: the world very clearly for decades and decades and decades

620
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: have been unconcerned with Palestinian people and their wellbeing and

621
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: they're not doing shit about it now. I think there

622
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: are still people who are able to make a meaningful

623
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: benefit to the lives of people in the West Bank.

624
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 4: Right.

625
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: I understand why people are hopeless when they look at

626
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: what's happening, you guys, And I understand why it seems

627
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: bleak and it seems like there's nothing you can do.

628
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,479
Speaker 1: Are there things that like concrete actions, organizations, groups that

629
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: you think people can engage with and we've heard from

630
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: some of them on the show before, right to be

631
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: in a solidarity way or to help people in the

632
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: West Bank.

633
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think like, I honestly, I think

634
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 3: there are people who could probably better answer this question

635
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 3: from me who've actually gone and done protected presence operations

636
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 3: in the West Bank.

637
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 4: I know that they're like the people.

638
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 3: In Massafayata are often asking for foreigners to come and

639
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: do that, and a lot of people will go through

640
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 3: like Jordan Valley Solidarity or ism or something like that.

641
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: I'm usually one to discourage foreigners from jumping feet first

642
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 3: into a HoriZone with great intentions and no knowledge of

643
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: the language or everything that's going on. Yeah, but there

644
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 3: does seem to be a genuine call from amongst the

645
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 3: pales in community in the West Bank to have people

646
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 3: who are willing to physically get in between you know,

647
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 3: Alsinian villages and settlers and the IDF. Yeah, so that

648
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 3: is a concrete thing you can do. That's a dangerous

649
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 3: thing to ask somebody to do.

650
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it's something people should rush into, right, Like,

651
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: we've interviewed people who have been shot.

652
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 4: Doing yeah exactly.

653
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: A young woman was killed doing that, Yeah, aishunar Agi.

654
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: She was shot yeah, feet away from my friend who

655
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: was just in the West Bank, and he just got

656
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: banned from the entire territory for ninety nine years, And

657
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: I was talking to him about that because I wonder about, like,

658
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 3: you know, my work, and sometimes I feel like I'm

659
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 3: not going far enough in my solidarity because I'm doing

660
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 3: this investigative documentary and I'm not physically putting my body

661
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 3: on the line. Yeah, sure, but I can still go

662
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 3: to the country, Like my support for the Palestinians is

663
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: still ongoing. So I think people need to ask themselves,

664
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 3: do I want to take one drastic measure to like

665
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: show this is my solidarity with alsign in an instant,

666
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: whether it's joining like a flotilla that might get airstrikes,

667
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: or you know, setting yourself on fire outside of the Israeli embassy,

668
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 3: or do I want to like contribute in the ways

669
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 3: that I can as best I can. I mean, I'm

670
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 3: a storyteller, right, So I said, I need to find

671
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 3: a story that I can tell about the Palestinian that

672
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 3: will humanize them in the eyes of people who are

673
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 3: not naturally sympathetic. And I think a lot of people

674
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 3: think that they need to be putting their body on

675
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 3: the line. Or it's like I talk about this with

676
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 3: disaster relief all the time, Like disaster happens and people

677
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 3: see you on the TV, they're like, I need to

678
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 3: be wearing a high viz best and distributing a box

679
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 3: of aid to someone. It's like, no, you probably don't. Actually,

680
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 3: like the thing that you can best do to help

681
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: people is probably the skill that you've been perfecting in

682
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 3: your own career as well as like in your own life. Right,

683
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 3: if you're good at spreadsheets, you can help people get

684
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 3: access to housing. Yeah, one hundred percent. You know, if

685
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 3: you're good, if you're good at lifting things, then maybe

686
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: you should be lifting boxes. But like, I have a

687
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: friend who's the Emmy Award winning director of photography, and

688
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: he's like, I have a and I can lift everything's

689
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 3: and like show me where to go? And he was

690
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 3: hitting me up the entire like first two weeks of

691
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 3: the LA fires, being like where should I go? And

692
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 3: I was like, me, you're an Emmy Award winning videography.

693
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 3: Tell the story of the fires, find the survivors, like,

694
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 3: bring their stories to life and let the world see

695
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 3: what our community looks like. And he did that and

696
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 3: it went amazing. Yeah, So, like I think people should

697
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 3: think about when they want to help. You know, if

698
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 3: you are a saramicist, or you sow or you're a musician,

699
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 3: write a song about gods. Like, there's so many ways

700
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 3: to help that don't involve physically putting yourself in between

701
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 3: a settler and they're in for and a Palestinian family

702
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 3: whose language you can't speak.

703
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree. Like there's and we see that

704
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: with border stuff, right, like everyone wants to do high

705
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: k out to the border and drug water or you know,

706
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 1: everyone wanted to in Kumba, right, like the other people

707
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: wanted to help us, and people did help us, and

708
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: it was amazing, it was really beautiful. But like people

709
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: were also able to help the skills they had, like

710
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: making jewels and selling it or maybe doing a benefit gig. Right,

711
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: there's a long tradition of anarchists benefit gigs, Like it's

712
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: a thing that we do, do a zine, yeah, like

713
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: you're upon concert, you know, yeah, yeah, many many such

714
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: cases like within doing that, there's the intangible benefit of

715
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: showing people that people care about them, like all around

716
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: the world. I remember, you know, just recently I saw

717
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: people from the Karini Nationalities Defense Force, Right, so one

718
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: of the revolutionary organizations in Miamma making a statement about

719
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: solidarity to people of Palestine and to their children, and

720
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: you know that they too have experienced their children being killed,

721
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: they too have experienced these bombing runs and state oppression,

722
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: and that like they see them and they care about them,

723
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: and even in their own time of war. That's like

724
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: the front in Karini State is hot right now that

725
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: they are still thinking of the people of Palestine. I

726
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: saw Palestinian people were very touched by this, right, like

727
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: it does Obviously you can't eat someone's good thoughts, but

728
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: like there are things you can do, like because yeah,

729
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: you can't be down there right now giving people a

730
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: sandwich as much you'd like to, and for some people

731
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 1: that's either not possible or maybe just not the best

732
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: use of their time. And like, I think it's a

733
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: really good message to everyone's good at something. Do you, like,

734
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: find the thing that you're good at and use it

735
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: to help people? I think is really valuable. Is there

736
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: anything else you'd like to share with people before you

737
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: finish up here?

738
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just think I would.

739
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 3: This was a dark conversation because I don't really see

740
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: a way out of this humanitarian situation. But I think

741
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 3: there's a degree to which that's been the case from

742
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 3: the start, Right, The real trick of the imperial thought

743
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 3: machine is that the pace of oppression outstrips our ability

744
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: to understand it. Yeah, to quote theory twink charisenemic. But

745
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,720
Speaker 3: don't lose hope, right, because the world does care about

746
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 3: Palestine more than it ever has. Yeah, they feel that

747
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 3: the people there feel our love, they feel our solidarity,

748
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: and that is not valueless, right, Like, yeah, no human

749
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 3: is useless. Who lightens the burden of another. I was

750
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 3: depressed as hell coming back from this recent drop the

751
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 3: Palace sign, and I went to the mountains and that's

752
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 3: we met with a bunch of people who were just

753
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 3: really energetic about like Palestinian solidarity and and really cared

754
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 3: about it. And it was like, yeah, it was so

755
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: nice to go from that and just be able to

756
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 3: tell my Palestinian fans like, hey, by the way, we

757
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 3: just spent an entire week talking about what we can

758
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 3: do to alleviate to some small degree the suffering that

759
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 3: your people are going through.

760
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 4: That matters.

761
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like every small act, every little thing, right, the

762
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 3: small deeds of ordinary folk.

763
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 4: That's what keeps the darkness is bay.

764
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's really prescient. Often, like refugees will say

765
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: to me, Sientias will say to me. In the last

766
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: six months now, I guess that they think Americans don't

767
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 1: care about them anymore, And that really fucking breaks my heart,

768
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: like more than I can express with words, because I

769
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: care about those people so much, and like it does

770
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: make a difference when they see people doing things, and

771
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: they can be small things, but like I know how

772
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: my set lifts up somebody in talk times, Like yeah,

773
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: because I've been with them in pretty dark times. So yeah,

774
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: it does make a difference. And like if that's what

775
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: you can do, then then people shouldn't think as valueless.

776
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also UNI pressure people, you know, continue to

777
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 3: make people embarrassed for believing in genocide. Call your congressmen

778
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 3: and remind them that they are their shills and cowards.

779
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: I think a lot about you know, you mentioned like

780
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 3: nineteen you mentioned World War two earlier. I mean, if

781
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 3: we had had TikTok in the age of Dakau and

782
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 3: Treblinka and Oschwitz, I think about like the American government

783
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 3: knew about the final solution, We knew that the box

784
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 3: cars were going to these extermination camps, and we refuse

785
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 3: to bomb them. Yeah, we focused on military targets. If

786
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,959
Speaker 3: we've been able to live stream you know, some from

787
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 3: inside Auschwitz, and we were also able because of pro

788
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: public or whatever, to find out that FDR was choosing

789
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 3: not to bomb the concentration camps, there would have been outrage.

790
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 3: There would have been a huge amount of outrage I

791
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 3: think in the American population as there is in Gaza.

792
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 3: And that's an important thing. It's something we have access

793
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 3: to now we can put that external pressure onto people

794
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 3: and make them uncomfortable. That's what brought down South African apartheid.

795
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 3: Like it's the it's the BCGS pulling out of the

796
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 3: Gaza Humanitarians Fund. Yeah, basically, British companies just got so

797
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 3: embarrassed to work with South Africa that they just eventually stopped.

798
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 4: And that's what brought.

799
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: Down, right, Yeah, because people wouldn't shut the fuck up

800
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: about it, right, They wouldn't let them do other stuff

801
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 1: and be like we're not talking about that today. And

802
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: like people in the case of South Africa wouldn't play

803
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: sports with South Africa until it fucking stopped doing its apartheid. Right,

804
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: Like I was gonna say it was global like a boycott,

805
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: It wasn't quite global. It's Rael was not boycotting apartheid

806
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 1: South Africa. But yeah, that stuff does make a difference. Charles,

807
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: when's your documentary coming out? Where could people find it?

808
00:40:58,800 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: What can they view it on?

809
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 3: I'm still in the editing phace, so I think give

810
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: me two months and I will have a better idea

811
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 3: of when it's coming out. I'm hoping like before Autumn

812
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 3: dam twenty twenty five. It is a time Emily piece, right,

813
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: it has some some relevance that's time sensitive. But you

814
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 3: can follow it on on Instagram. It's just at the

815
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 3: war on Unra you n RWA.

816
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and my personal account also posts a lot about it.

817
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 3: That's Charles McBride with a y. Yeah, and it's the

818
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 3: same on substack TikTok YouTube.

819
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, like child said, you don't have to be there

820
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: getting an m full pointed at you to make a difference,

821
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 1: and so like, yeah, I would encourage people to do

822
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: the little things to you. They're not that's small actually,

823
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: but just yeah, the things that aren't going to Palestine necessarily.

824
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, and like take heart, you know, don't despair.

825
00:41:47,640 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, find some joy, welcome to it could happen

826
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 6: here A podcast about it happening here, which, if you

827
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 6: are paying attention to the news today is Los Angeles,

828
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 6: not just LA but largely LA right now, which over

829
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 6: the course of the last couple of days while we

830
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 6: were off for the weekend, has broken out into.

831
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 2: A series of protests and cop riots that are kind

832
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 2: of consuming national news. The federal government has activated the

833
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: California National Guard and asserted federal control over them. Governor

834
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 2: Newsom is kind of pushing back against that, although not

835
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: in a way that I am convinced or I've seen

836
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 2: any evidence of matters at this point. The United States Marines,

837
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 2: a group of I think about five hundred from Camp Pendleton,

838
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: which is down near San Diego, have been activated as well,

839
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 2: which is a probable violation of pose coma tadas, so

840
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 2: that was kind of unclear to me the extent which

841
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: they're in theater at this point. Largely, all of these

842
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 2: actions have been ineffective in making the protests go away

843
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 2: at this point. What sparked them was a series of

844
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: ice raids that took about two thousand people into custody

845
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 2: and brought a bunch of Los Angelinos out in Paramount,

846
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 2: California who were met by the police, the LAPD providing

847
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 2: crowd control to Homeland Security HSI agents. Yeah, and that's

848
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 2: the gist of what went down. Things have just kind

849
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 2: of escalated from there. Yesterday probably four to six thousand

850
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 2: people in the street as opposed to five hundred or

851
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: so the day before. So things have continued to escalate

852
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 2: and the LAPD and their police have had no real

853
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 2: luck in containing the demonstrations. We'll see how long that

854
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: situation lasts. But yeah, that's where we are right at

855
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 2: this second. More or less, things are continuing evolve today,

856
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: will have evolved since Yeah.

857
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, by the way, we're recording this on Monday, this

858
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 7: will probably be coming out like Monday night, Tuesday morning. Yeah,

859
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 7: so who fucking knows what will have happened by then.

860
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 7: This is like about one pm Pacific time when we're

861
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 7: recording this. I want to start also by going back

862
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 7: to that National Guard deployment, because that national the federalized

863
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 7: National Guard deployment is hideously illegal. Oh yeah, like unbelievably illegal.

864
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 7: I cannot emphasize enough. This is like constitution shatteringly illegal. Yeah,

865
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 7: and the way this is being reported in the media

866
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 7: is fucking hideous. They are just straight up lying about it.

867
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 7: So okay, So Trump has not declared the Insurrection Act yet, right.

868
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 2: No, they activated a directive that Trump signed cited ten

869
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 2: USC one two four six, which is a specific provision

870
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: within Title ten if the US Code on Armed Services.

871
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: That provision allows, or part of that provision allows for

872
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: the federal government to deploy National Guard forces quote, if

873
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: there is a rebellion or danger of a rebellion against

874
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 2: the authority of the government of the United States. So basically,

875
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 2: the claim being made by the administration here was that

876
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: the federalization of the California Guard was justified by the

877
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: fact that the people of Los Angeles, which at the

878
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 2: point this was done was somewhere less than a thousand.

879
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 7: Of them five hundred people, Yeah.

880
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 2: And were an open rebellion because they had yelled at

881
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: a bunch of ice officers for a while. That was

882
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: the situation.

883
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 5: Yeah.

884
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 7: Well, and also it's worth noting too, even if there

885
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 7: was a rebellion, which there isn't. He also can't use

886
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 7: that section because it's in coordination with the governor. You

887
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 7: could only do what if the governor is working with you,

888
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,919
Speaker 7: and the governor, like Newsome, is being a real piece

889
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 7: of shit. About this for again, like.

890
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: The president of the LAPD has been Yeah.

891
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 7: But it's like he's been sitting the LPD up, but

892
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 7: he hasn't given permission for the federal government to use

893
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 7: the California National Guard. They're just doing it, right, This

894
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 7: is like they've just stolen a state national Guard. And

895
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 7: Neustroom's response has been, because he fucking hates protesters so much,

896
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 7: has been like, oh this is bad, Am I gonna

897
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 7: like do anything about the fact that, like, again, every

898
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 7: single law about how the National Guard is supposed to

899
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 7: be used, it's just been torn the fuck up.

900
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

901
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 7: No, like fucking MPR and like a bunch of the

902
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,399
Speaker 7: Maintiam media reporting about this has just been saying that, oh, well,

903
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 7: he used this provision and it's like, no, he didn't.

904
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 7: Like he did not he explicitly every single part of

905
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 7: the thing that lets you use this provision, none of

906
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 7: the conditions have been fulfilled, which means he's not using it.

907
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 7: He's just saying shit and doing it.

908
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right.

909
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: And the activation of the US Marines is based on

910
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 2: like heg Seth posted a tweet being like I've got

911
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 2: marines ready in Camp Pendleton, which like there's absolutely no

912
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 2: constitutional justification for no, especially since the National Guard had

913
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 2: just been put in for deploying active duty US Marines

914
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 2: into this situation. Absolutely not, it's all super like for

915
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 2: one thing, the the situation that they're in right now

916
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: in terms of like what we've seen from the National

917
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: Guard yesterday was like they're not very effective at this, right.

918
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 2: They fairly quickly after being deployed started using, you know,

919
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: firing impact munitions at the crowd, attacking the crowd in

920
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 2: the same way that the LAPD had done.

921
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: Nothing.

922
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 2: That was like, I would say, an escalation beyond how

923
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: the fucking cops were active.

924
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 1: Right.

925
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,959
Speaker 2: But National Guard is bad at handling these kinds of things, right.

926
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 2: Their force organization is not meant to be able to

927
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: be split up into small enough units the way the

928
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: cops are in enough areas, Like they're just not meant

929
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: for this sort of thing.

930
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: It's not how they're.

931
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 2: Meant to be deployed to counteract protests, so you wind

932
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 2: up just kind of keeping them in this big blob

933
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: of guys who you don't have good Like they're sleeping

934
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 2: on floors in government buildings right now.

935
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 1: Because the Quartering.

936
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 2: Act exists, which is amazing, and because there's not much

937
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 2: in the way of organization behind deploying them, and they

938
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 2: don't know they're not I mean neither the police generally

939
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: well trained with their impact munitions, but these guys certainly aren't.

940
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: And they freak out at the drop of a hat

941
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 2: like they're like worse at it than the LAPD, and

942
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 2: the LAPD.

943
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 1: Is, you know, not good at it, they're just good

944
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: at hurting people.

945
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,959
Speaker 2: So you've just kind of got this large, brittle group

946
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 2: of guys who you can plunk down in an area

947
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 2: while protesters continue to gather in groups all around the city.

948
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: And the more stories of shit like a blob of

949
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 2: National guardsmen fucking up protesters you get, the more people

950
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 2: are coming out and the less controllable the situation becomes.

951
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 7: And it seems like we're seeing the very beginning stages

952
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 7: of people actually learning tactical lessons from twenty twenty and

953
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 7: twenty twenty four with the poal sign encampments. Yeah, which

954
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 7: is like, yeah, like, if you concentrate all of your

955
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 7: people in one spot, police departments are very very good

956
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 7: at massing the whole bunch of people and rolling you over.

957
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 7: Ian We've known this since twenty twenty. If you are

958
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 7: at a whole bunch of different spots at the same time,

959
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 7: they're terrible at responding to that. And that's kind of

960
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 7: what's been happening. Yeah, there's been a unch are protests

961
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 7: popping up in different places. It's been very effective at

962
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 7: sort of like preventing that kind of like one giant

963
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 7: sweep mobilizations that were like destroying the student encampments.

964
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm looking at based on reporting from CBS News,

965
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 2: about seven hundred US Marines have been activated from the

966
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 2: twenty nine Palms base near San Diego, which is, per

967
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: Jim Laporta, who's a defense reporter, widely considered to be

968
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 2: one of the worst bases to be stationed at in

969
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 2: the entire military. Are being deployed to Los Angeles right now.

970
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 2: So that's just great.

971
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 7: Yeah. Someone asked Trump what would it take for him

972
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 7: to use to authorize the deployment of the US military

973
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 7: on American soil, and he said, that's just that's up

974
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 7: to me, which is not how any of this works. Yeah,

975
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 7: Like that's just pure military dictatorship stuff. If Trump is

976
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 7: just able to like use the military just do whatever

977
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 7: the fuck he wants. That is just that is the

978
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 7: constitution gone, That is the pretense of democracy gone. It

979
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 7: is real bad now. It hasn't happened yet, but there

980
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 7: has been a bunch of extremely alarming other shit that's happened.

981
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 7: So the cops arrested the president of California SEIU, which

982
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 7: is the service workers union in California, very very large union.

983
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 7: Not a super billetant one.

984
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 2: No, And David Huerta isn't who you'd call like a

985
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: particularly militant leftist.

986
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 7: No, he's just like a he's just like a kind

987
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 7: of like a Democratic Party labor guy. And they just

988
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 7: like arrested him outside of outside of one of the

989
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 7: initial protests where he.

990
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: Was injured him quite badly too.

991
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, like beat the shit out of him. And

992
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 7: then he's still being held in in a federal detention building.

993
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 7: They're they're they're charging him with with federal felony conspiracy

994
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 7: to impede an officer. And again this is this is

995
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 7: the this is the head of like one of the

996
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 7: largest unions of California.

997
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 2: No, and they're they're justifying it in part based on

998
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 2: the charging documents because they saw him texting on his

999
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: phone outside and assumed he was texting to like a

1000
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: protester to give them more.

1001
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 7: Yes, right, Like it's like fucking cortoon cloud. But like

1002
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 7: the actual effect of this again is that they have

1003
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 7: like one of the they have like the president of

1004
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 7: one of the largest unions in the state, like yes,

1005
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 7: in a federal detention building. So, I mean there's obviously

1006
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 7: been like unions are pissed about it. There hasn't been

1007
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 7: any kind of large scomobilization from them yet. But if

1008
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 7: there was one possible thing you could do to actually

1009
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 7: get Seiu outfits ass and like show up to shit,

1010
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 7: it's this. We don't know exactly what's going to happen.

1011
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 7: The reporting that I've seen so far has suggested that

1012
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 7: there is actually a kind of heartening degree of cross

1013
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 7: union support for like, holy shit, the Feds like just

1014
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 7: grabbing the president of a union is in fact bad.

1015
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 7: We're gonna have to see exactly how that plays out.

1016
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 7: But like he's still fucking in there. Maxine Walters like

1017
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 7: tried to enter the facility to check on him. This

1018
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 7: has happened with a bunch of different congress people who

1019
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 7: have tried to enter this one in LA and a

1020
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:52,760
Speaker 7: couple of other ttention facilities. They are all being denied,

1021
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 7: which is unhinged.

1022
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially since they have oversight over facilities like this.

1023
00:51:58,520 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1024
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 2: Other news for from today that's just come out in

1025
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,280
Speaker 2: the last less than a day, the government has deployed

1026
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 2: MQ nine reapers I think at least two of them

1027
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 2: over Los Angeles. These are the drones that are that

1028
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: we were using overseas to shoot hell fire missiles of people.

1029
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: That's not what they're being used for here. They're being

1030
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: used for surveillance.

1031
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 2: The last time this was done was in Minneapolis in

1032
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 2: twenty twenty.

1033
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: Outside of their use.

1034
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 2: For surveillance over the border, but there's MQ nine's over

1035
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: an American city surveilling protesters. Speaking of that, there's also

1036
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: just been like the threat of surveillance being used against protesters.

1037
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 2: Kind of The most chilling example from yesterday was an

1038
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 2: LAPD helicopter flying low over a crowd, shining a spotlight

1039
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 2: on them and saying like I've seen, we can see

1040
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 2: all of you.

1041
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:47,439
Speaker 1: We're going to come.

1042
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to come to your houses later, like you're

1043
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: all on camera and I'm cut, like specifically I'm going

1044
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 2: to cut. We're coming to your houses.

1045
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: Later, Yeah, it's police state shit. Like, yeah, it's police

1046
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: state shit.

1047
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 2: Now do I believe that they actually have the ability

1048
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 2: to No, they don't actually, but yeah.

1049
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 7: That said, like where if you're going to one of

1050
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 7: these protests, we're a fucking mask, yes, like I don't know,

1051
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 7: like both for COVID, but like also Jesus fucking Christ,

1052
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 7: like their flag petator truts over these protests, like wear masks.

1053
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 7: Good lord, do you know what else wants you to

1054
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 7: buy masks?

1055
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the products and services that support this podcast perhaps,

1056
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 2: and we're.

1057
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1058
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 7: So I also want to talk a bit about the

1059
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 7: specific conditions that caused all of this stuff, because I

1060
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 7: think the reporting on it has been really bad. So

1061
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 7: there were two thousand arrests from ICE on Tuesday. They

1062
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 7: rested two thousand people on Wednesday. I think these are

1063
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,720
Speaker 7: like national numbers, the numbers like very specifically in LA's

1064
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 7: are these several hundred people have been being held in

1065
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 7: just horrifying conditions. You know, some of them are being

1066
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 7: held in federal attention centers, but they're also just being

1067
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 7: held in like the basements of these fucking buildings because

1068
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 7: there's not enough room to hold this many people. You know,

1069
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,959
Speaker 7: I mean, even the conditions and the regular attention center

1070
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 7: are terrible. But like the immigration lawyers who people were

1071
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 7: able to reach and talk to, are talking about hundreds

1072
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 7: of people in rooms designed for thirty. There's no cots,

1073
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 7: They're sleeping on the ground. Sickness is spreading, there's not

1074
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 7: enough food or water. Conditions are fucking horrifying. A lot

1075
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 7: of the people who are in there, you know, the

1076
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 7: ones that we've been able to get any kind of

1077
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 7: contact with from their lawyers. A lot of these people

1078
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 7: cannot be deported because there are people who have been

1079
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 7: granted stay of deportation by the US government, which means

1080
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 7: they cannot be deported. But I said, just fucking kidnapped them. Anyways.

1081
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 7: There's videos you can see from the protesters outside the

1082
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 7: buildings will and there's something I remember from Occupy Ice

1083
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 7: in twenty eighteen that's just fucking harrowing, is that, like

1084
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 7: when you're outside these buildings sometimes you can hear the

1085
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 7: people inside shouting, and it's fucking harrowing. And with these ones,

1086
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 7: there's a bunch of videos if you can see that

1087
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,800
Speaker 7: the people inside the buildings are trying to like shine

1088
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 7: lights out of windows so that people know that they're inside.

1089
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 7: It's fucking horrifying, And I think just how bad this is,

1090
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 7: Like how bad it was that like all of these

1091
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 7: fucking people in their fucking tanks just rolled up and

1092
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 7: started kidnapping people has just kind of been lost in

1093
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 7: all of this discourse about the protest. It is like, no,

1094
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 7: this is what was happening, Like this is straight up

1095
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 7: soldiers are just taking people on the night, Like that's

1096
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,720
Speaker 7: what this is, you know, And this has been happening

1097
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 7: all over. There was also a huge sort of protests

1098
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 7: have started at this home depot where okay, so this

1099
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 7: is where this is where we would get into the

1100
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 7: point where like it's kind of difficult to see what's

1101
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 7: going on. Ice claims that they were just staging a

1102
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 7: bunch of people. The private whole ind Security said to

1103
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 7: the BBC that there was no raid on this home

1104
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 7: depot planned and that they were just staging there. I

1105
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,280
Speaker 7: don't don't believe that, because these people live, were a living.

1106
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 5: It is their job. They are police.

1107
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 7: It is their job as a cop to lie to you.

1108
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 7: It is a constitutionally protected thing that they have according

1109
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 7: to the Supreme Court, which is absolutely ridiculous, but I

1110
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 7: am pretty sure they're lying about that. But regardless, there's

1111
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 7: you know, like their approtest started off and then like

1112
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 7: the cops just started tear gassing the people who were protesting. Yep,

1113
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 7: this massive rage at a home depot.

1114
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 2: Now there was another kind of noteworthy event is when

1115
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,879
Speaker 2: ICE showed up in force they got There were kind

1116
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: of two different actions. There was one down at a

1117
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 2: federal building where people attacked in dissembled barricades at the

1118
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 2: same time as people showed up to go after the

1119
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 2: ICE caravan. Ice officers were pelted in their vehicles with

1120
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 2: a number of objects. Yeah, and again this is the

1121
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 2: kind of thing that makes it a lot more difficult.

1122
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 2: I mean that just appears operational operationally to be true

1123
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 2: for them to crack down when they're expecting, you know,

1124
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 2: action in one direction and it comes in multiple at

1125
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 2: the same time. There was another instance earlier in the

1126
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 2: protest where ICE officers were surrounded by a crowd and

1127
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 2: cut off for about eight hours while the LAPD refused

1128
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 2: to respond to them, and they eventually had to land

1129
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 2: a black Hawk on the street in order to resupply

1130
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 2: because they were out of water and I think running

1131
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 2: low on munitions.

1132
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: Which they then used with.

1133
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: Reckless abandon So yeah, there's also as I'm looking right now,

1134
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 2: just as about two hours ago, a US Marine Age

1135
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 2: one Z viper attack helicopter was filmed flying low over

1136
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 2: Los Angeles. So it looks like we've got active duty

1137
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 2: US Marine Corps forces in the city. Unclear if they're

1138
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 2: directly engaging with anyone. I haven't really heard of a

1139
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: lot of activity today, but yeah.

1140
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, My guess is things will intensify, you know, as

1141
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 7: the day goes on and as we sort of roll

1142
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 7: into night, because how some people sort of start getting

1143
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 7: off work and when temperatures start coming down a bit.

1144
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: That's the open question right as to like what's going

1145
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 2: to happen. The last couple of days we saw numbers escalate,

1146
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 2: but now it's Monday, people have work and there's more true.

1147
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, it's not clear to me that that's

1148
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 2: going to happen, that this is going to be like

1149
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: a yeah, we'll see. I'm seeing a lot of early

1150
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 2: comparisons to twenty twenty, and it's not clear to me

1151
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 2: that that's going to happen. One thing to note is

1152
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 2: that kind of at the top so far we've had

1153
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 2: four to six thousand people out in the street in Layah,

1154
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 2: which is not you know, compared to twenty twenty numbers.

1155
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 2: And while we've seen some sympathy demonstrations, I mean here

1156
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 2: in Portland, I don't think it got larger than forty

1157
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 2: or so people. There was another you know somewhere less

1158
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 2: than one hundred people in San Francisco that some a

1159
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:39,520
Speaker 2: good chunk of them got.

1160
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: Kettled the other day. But not mass demonstrations yet in

1161
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: other cities.

1162
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, it hasn't. It hasn't like really kicked off

1163
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 7: everywhere yet. And it's also interesting because like these protests

1164
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 7: are kind of coming off of the back of a

1165
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 7: couple of like scattered things. We talked about this on

1166
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 7: executive Disorder, but there were a there's a very big

1167
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 7: confrontation in Minneapolis last week. There's another one in Chicago

1168
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 7: where they like attacked a bunch of Chicago aldermen, which

1169
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 7: was a time. The way it's been going is like

1170
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 7: you get a giant raid and it pisses people off

1171
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 7: and there's a flare up, and the flare ups have

1172
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 7: been getting larger, but it hasn't been like a sustained thing.

1173
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 7: It's largely been reactive to these kind of large raids,

1174
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 7: and you know that's not necessarily like the recipe for

1175
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 7: a sustained thing. However, the term administration, their target goal

1176
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 7: for the number of arrests a day is three thousand,

1177
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 7: so like they're trying to intensify the number of rags

1178
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 7: they're doing and how sort of like aggressive and like

1179
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 7: militant they are. And I think that might be a

1180
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 7: thing that causes this to accelerate as we go, as

1181
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 7: we head into like next weekend, because if they're still

1182
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 7: doing this, right, like if feds are if suddenly like

1183
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 7: like hundreds of FEDS are in Chicago again and they're

1184
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 7: like grabbing people out of like Logan Square, right, or

1185
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 7: you know, they're they're trying they're doing this in like

1186
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 7: in New York, they're doing this in like other places.

1187
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 7: I think it could start to escalate, but right now

1188
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 7: it's still very much unclear.

1189
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and that's where I stand to on

1190
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: this is like I don't actually know what's going to

1191
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 2: happen with this demonstration, but I think that, you know,

1192
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 2: one possibility is certainly that this continues to escalate and

1193
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 2: that you just get more and more people out consistently

1194
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,439
Speaker 2: the others that it kind of peters out from this point.

1195
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 2: If it continues to escalate, then the state is or

1196
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 2: the FEDS are in a situation where they have committed

1197
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 2: to continuing the escalation chain and there's not much for

1198
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: them to go once they've got active duty soldiers in

1199
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 2: the streets, but just actually shooting at people with live rounds,

1200
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 2: assuming that they can't stop the demonstrations with a show

1201
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 2: of force, and likewise, there's not much else for people

1202
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,439
Speaker 2: to do but either back down and stop coming out,

1203
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 2: at which point the administration will take a victory lap

1204
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 2: and say that like, look, this works, and this will

1205
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 2: become their standard go to whenever a city erupts is

1206
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 2: immediately nationalize the state National Guard, bring out life troops. Right,

1207
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 2: that's what will happen everywhere. That's going to become the

1208
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 2: new norm. Or people will continue escalating and yeah, Like

1209
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 2: in that case, the situation is, like do people escalate

1210
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 2: to deploying more force. Do they have that real option

1211
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 2: right or does the kind of stress of responding with

1212
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 2: that sort of force largely with soldiers that this is

1213
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 2: not the primary thing they signed up to do. Do

1214
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 2: they start like stop obeying orders. You know, these are

1215
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 2: the kind of things that we would then be looking

1216
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 2: at to see, right, Like that's kind of where there's

1217
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 2: a couple of different places it can go from here.

1218
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 1: You know.

1219
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 2: Another possibility is that, like if we see an instance

1220
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 2: of like, okay, in order to try and crack down

1221
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 2: on this, they authorize the use of deadly force against

1222
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 2: a chunk of demonstrators and people get killed, then do

1223
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 2: you see this kind of thing erupt in cities all

1224
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,479
Speaker 2: around the country like we saw in twenty twenty, right,

1225
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 2: in which case, again things get very because there's not

1226
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of the US army. Really, there

1227
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 2: are a lot of cops, but compared to the US population,

1228
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 2: there's not even that any cops, right, and widespread enough

1229
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 2: discent like this, you know what would force some very

1230
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 2: difficult decisions from the federal government and from the administration, right,

1231
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,959
Speaker 2: And that's kind of our best case scenario is that

1232
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 2: you get enough people out in enough cities that like

1233
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 2: it is just crashing the US economy, right, and there's

1234
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 2: no real way to lock down the unrest, and you

1235
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 2: start getting National Guard refusing to respond to deployment orders

1236
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 2: as well as active duty soldiers like refusing to respond

1237
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 2: right like these are. That's the kind of thing we're

1238
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 2: looking at in terms of like a potential best case

1239
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 2: scenario here. I don't know where things are going to head.

1240
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 2: I think maybe a likelier possibility is not that we

1241
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 2: hit that that situation right now, but that we start

1242
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 2: to see, like as this kind of peters out, the

1243
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 2: administration puts out a victory lap, and then we start

1244
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 2: to see you demonstrations responding in other cities, and maybe

1245
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 2: there's kind of a slower tempo of escalation here.

1246
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: But I don't know.

1247
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 2: I want to say that my hope is that they

1248
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 2: overplayed their hands here, but I just don't know that

1249
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 2: that's clear, in part because we haven't seen the scale

1250
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 2: of mobilization by people that is clearly going to be

1251
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 2: impossible for them to respond to.

1252
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 1: Right.

1253
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 7: I am still expecting that we're going to get a

1254
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 7: really large escalating series approachest this summer. It's June that

1255
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 7: I am. It is June ninth as we're recording this,

1256
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 7: right is going to be a long, hot summer. Right,

1257
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 7: regardless of whether this is the one or whether it

1258
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 7: Peter's out here, I think it is absolutely possible that

1259
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 7: this Peter's out and this isn't the one. I don't

1260
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 7: think it's very likely that this Peter's out the Republican's

1261
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 7: sake a victory lap, and then we don't get more

1262
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 7: protests this summer. Yeah, at this scale or larger, Yeah,

1263
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 7: I think I think that's very unlikely. We should take

1264
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 7: an at break and that I want to talk a

1265
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 7: little bit about some of the tactics we've been seeing,

1266
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 7: because they're very funny.

1267
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 1: Ah, and we're back.

1268
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 2: I should probably note very quickly that, like obviously, one

1269
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 2: thing that happens when shit like this goes down is

1270
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 2: that you get people posting on the.

1271
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: Internet their thoughts about this.

1272
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 2: One of the more prominent posters on Twitter in the

1273
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 2: new musc Era has been the menswear Guy, who made

1274
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 2: a couple of statements that I don't entirely agree with

1275
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 2: about Like, I mean, in general, support protests, but I

1276
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 2: don't support you know, violent protests what I would call

1277
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 2: some kind of mish interpretations of the civil rights movement,

1278
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 2: but also like not something I would I don't. I

1279
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 2: don't care that much if people are wrong on the internet.

1280
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, he did have a straight up poster

1281
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 7: meltdown where he was like yelling about someone's like breakup

1282
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,439
Speaker 7: to say that they're insufficiently devoted because they didn't stay

1283
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 7: with this person, to like keep them in the curry.

1284
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 7: There is melt on base.

1285
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 2: Shit, but like, but matters, people melt down, posters melt out.

1286
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 2: What I think what matters is that like he made

1287
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 2: a post later, a longer one, talking about the fact

1288
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 2: that he was undocumented, his family was undocumented because you know,

1289
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 2: they came to initially Canada after the tet offensive and

1290
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 2: entered the US through a porous border, and talking about

1291
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: the way in which being undocumented has like affected his

1292
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 2: entire life. And now the vice president and the DHS

1293
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 2: account put us in a picture of like spy kids

1294
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 2: of a kid with like a little like computer tracker

1295
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 2: thing on his eye, and Jade Vance made a post

1296
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 2: being like basically, we're going to deport the menswear guy

1297
01:05:59,120 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 2: for his posts.

1298
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, which is fucking hideous.

1299
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 2: Which is it's just like again another example of the

1300
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 2: ridiculous level of government repression that we're looking at here,

1301
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 2: like where the federal government is like targeting themselves based

1302
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 2: on posts that make people angry.

1303
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, and well it's basically post on Twitter. Yeah too, like,

1304
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 7: and like that's also an important thing of like, if

1305
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 7: you're not on Twitter, it is harder to get the

1306
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 7: eye of the state on you if you are on Twitter. Yeah, Like,

1307
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 7: the Vice president can be posting fucking unhinged reply images

1308
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 7: to someone talking about deporting you, like Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah,

1309
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 7: is a horrifying level of repression. The sort of mirror

1310
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 7: to this is the stuff we've been seeing on the ground.

1311
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 7: Right there's a video going around of a like a

1312
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 7: pretty right wing at like Australian journalists who's just like

1313
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 7: talking about the protests.

1314
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 2: And like maybe twenty feet their back turned to a

1315
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 2: police right line, it's.

1316
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 7: More like like fifteen. The guy like the end of

1317
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 7: the right line just like turns and shoots.

1318
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 2: Her very casually about no protesters close to her, absolutely,

1319
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 2: no question, no no chance that he was aiming at

1320
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 2: someone else, zero chance, no chance that he thought that

1321
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 2: she was attacking him. Just shot a lady in the

1322
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 2: back of her thigh with an impact mutition for no reason.

1323
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 7: The most on hinge part of this, well, okay, the

1324
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 7: most on hinge part of this was that they fucking

1325
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 7: did this. The second most On Hinge. Part of it

1326
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,200
Speaker 7: was that her fucking like her fucking outlet in the

1327
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 7: description of the video said that they appeared to be

1328
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 7: targeting a profire, like appear to be targeting a protests, Like, no,

1329
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 7: they weren't. Man, there's this really amazing thing with the

1330
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 7: American press were like they are incapable of objectively describing

1331
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 7: the thing that a cop does because if they described

1332
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 7: the thing that the cop does, it looks like anti.

1333
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 1: POA everyone can see yeah.

1334
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, and so they have to just lie about it

1335
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 7: and be like, oh, it was Colon Crush is like, no,

1336
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 7: with your own eyes you can see, but the headline

1337
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 7: is lying.

1338
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 2: This is not questionable. This is not an arguable point.

1339
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 2: This is not debatable. Oh, the footage is objective.

1340
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 5: Enob watched the video.

1341
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, guys, he just shot her because he

1342
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 2: wanted to, because he thought it was funny, Like that's

1343
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 2: why he did it, we know.

1344
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, And like this kind of shit just continues to happen,

1345
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 7: Like the press has learned nothing from twenty twenty. They're

1346
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 7: still doing all the stupid snography shit. There's actually been

1347
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 7: shit the cops I've done in this protest that I've

1348
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 7: never actually seen before, which is a new one, because

1349
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 7: by by the time I was like, I was like

1350
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 7: a few weeks of twenty twenty, I had seen basically everything, right, Like,

1351
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 7: I'm doing this for like fucking ages. I've seen the

1352
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 7: cops trample people with horses before. I had never seen

1353
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 7: them trample a guy and beat him with the same

1354
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,719
Speaker 7: person on a horse. Yeah, beating a guy and trampling

1355
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 7: them with the horse at the same time. That's a

1356
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 7: new one. Good fucking God. That's also and I think

1357
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 7: it's actually is this worth understanding? Is that, like that

1358
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 7: is the points of police horses, Like the reason they

1359
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 7: have them is so they can trample people with them.

1360
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's to run people over with them.

1361
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 7: Yes, Yeah, And it's it's real fucking bad. That's that's

1362
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 7: hideous and shit like this has been happening this whole time.

1363
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 7: There's been a bunch of journalists who have really been

1364
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 7: really severely injured by impact munitions.

1365
01:08:59,840 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 5: Right.

1366
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, one guy who got shot in the skull with

1367
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 2: a you can tell it's a forty millimeters round because

1368
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:06,719
Speaker 2: of the indent that left in his skull.

1369
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, those things are like the size of your fist and.

1370
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just they're they're massive, and they're not they're

1371
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 2: not even meant to be fired directly. When you're shooting

1372
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 2: at people, you're supposed to shoot them up at the

1373
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 2: ground and bounce them into people.

1374
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1375
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 7: Now, no cop has ever done this.

1376
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: They don't use them that way. I've had a used

1377
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: on me, like I'm sorry.

1378
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:26,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, this this munition has never been used like that,

1379
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 7: no single time.

1380
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:30,599
Speaker 2: That's and that's the general truth of riot munitions. And actually,

1381
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 2: I don't know if this guy was shot with a

1382
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 2: with a with a rubber around or a foam round.

1383
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 2: I think they probably shot him with a grenade, which

1384
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 2: you're also not supposed to shoot at people, but again

1385
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 2: they do all.

1386
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 5: The time, which also kills people a lot.

1387
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 2: Guy very nearly died in Portland a few years back

1388
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 2: from that. Only his bike helmet saved him.

1389
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:46,679
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1390
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, like this is this is a This is one

1391
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 7: of the most common ways people get killed in protests

1392
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:52,639
Speaker 7: is by the cops shooting them. Yeah, like ture gas

1393
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 7: cans specifically, especially like in Turkey, this is a huge thing.

1394
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 7: Like a bunch of people got killed by by you

1395
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 7: gonna keep my trus canisters. Yeah, However, Coma. There has

1396
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 7: been a bunch of extremely funny and like pretty effective

1397
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 7: tactics people have been using. One of which I've never

1398
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 7: seen before that is fascinating is people were calling wimos,

1399
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 7: which are these like driverless yes, yes, yeah.

1400
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 5: So they would use the app to.

1401
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:21,719
Speaker 7: Call winmos to places they wanted to set up roadblocks,

1402
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 7: stop police cars going through, and stop ice cars going through,

1403
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 7: and then they would light them on fire. And they

1404
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 7: did this to so many of these cars that the

1405
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 7: LAPD called Wimo and told them to shut it down

1406
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 7: because they were like, literally, it's it's it's a self

1407
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 7: driving flaming barricade.

1408
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 2: Well, and I think white people were doing it is

1409
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:43,640
Speaker 2: in part because like they like the board started spreading that,

1410
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 2: like the police, were you getting footage from wimo, right,

1411
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 2: So they were like, well, these are surveillance machines and

1412
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 2: yeah if you if you show up, you light one

1413
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 2: on fire and there's this flaming barricade.

1414
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: Yeah yep.

1415
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 7: And then and then then people figured out that you

1416
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 7: could just like, oh, we could just bring these to

1417
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:02,920
Speaker 7: places like this. This is a self deploying flaming barricade.

1418
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1419
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1420
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 7: And and the other thing that that's interesting about it too,

1421
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 7: is it's another one of these examples that you see

1422
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 7: in protests of like people have this tendency to think

1423
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 7: of riots as these like really spontaneous things that nobody's

1424
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:19,639
Speaker 7: like thinking about a lot. But the thing about why

1425
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 7: mows is that, like, if you've like walked in a

1426
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:24,240
Speaker 7: city that has these things, these things have tried to

1427
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 7: run you over at least once. Yeah, Like there's there's

1428
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,240
Speaker 7: a verileles angle. There's also the angle that these things

1429
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 7: are trying to fucking kill you all the time. And

1430
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 7: so and this is like, you know, this is a

1431
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 7: very common like like first thing that happens in the

1432
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 7: riot is like people burn down the thing that has

1433
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:40,719
Speaker 7: been trying to fucking kill them this whole time. Yeah,

1434
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:42,720
Speaker 7: so this is this one, except they figured out how

1435
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:44,680
Speaker 7: to turn it into flaming card barricades.

1436
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1437
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:49,600
Speaker 2: So I don't know, I guess we should end this

1438
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 2: with assuming things do kind of get get bigger, or

1439
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 2: assuming things get bigger later. Yeah, and you're watching this

1440
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 2: and either you head out soon and wind up you know,

1441
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 2: being at a protest, or that happens later. There's a

1442
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:04,639
Speaker 2: couple of things to keep in mind. One of them

1443
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 2: is especially as we hit the summer. There's always trade

1444
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 2: offs when we talk about like different kinds of body

1445
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 2: armor that you may or may not want to have,

1446
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 2: right you know, the two broad types are soft ballistic

1447
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 2: armor and hard ballistic armor. When we talk about like

1448
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 2: ballistic body armor that can that is resistant to bullets,

1449
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 2: downsides to both of those are expense no reliable body armour,

1450
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 2: and I'm talking about NIJ certified body armour, which you

1451
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 2: should always shoot forard. None of that is ever cheap.

1452
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 2: Some is cheaper than others. Soft body armor is really

1453
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 2: all you need for riot munitions. It doesn't stop the

1454
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 2: pain as much as hard body armour. I've been hit

1455
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:42,679
Speaker 2: in hard body armor by impact munitions by like foam

1456
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 2: rounds and stuff and barely felt it, whereas being hit

1457
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 2: with them in soft armor is still pretty painful. However,

1458
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 2: hard body armor, like the stuff that stops rifle rounds,

1459
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:55,679
Speaker 2: can shatter when hit by impact munitions, and again, because

1460
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 2: it's a significant expense, means you might not have that

1461
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 2: hard body armour anymore. The other thing keeping counters that

1462
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 2: when you're talking about like armor for your body, if

1463
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 2: you're worried primarily about impact munitions, it doesn't have to

1464
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 2: be ballistic. Stuff like football pads, hockey pads works very

1465
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:11,520
Speaker 2: well against soft munitions.

1466
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 8: Right.

1467
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 2: Again, there's a huge trade off and potentially a safety

1468
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 2: trade off if it's one hundred and ten degrees where

1469
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 2: you are, like the danger of wearing any body armour

1470
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 2: and how much it slows you down, and how the

1471
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 2: odds of it causing you to have heat stroke or

1472
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 2: whatever can be significantly higher than like whatever you'd gain

1473
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,599
Speaker 2: in protection. However, there are some things you should never

1474
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 2: go into a situation like this without in terms of armor.

1475
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 2: One of those is a helmet. Again, there are ballistic

1476
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 2: helmets that are resistant to pistol rounds. There are no

1477
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 2: helmets that exist that will reliably stop rifle rounds at

1478
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:43,600
Speaker 2: by close range with a rifle. We're talking within a

1479
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:46,639
Speaker 2: couple hundred meters, right, Those don't exist. They can stop

1480
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 2: maybe a ricochet or a glancing blow. They're good for shrapnel,

1481
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,800
Speaker 2: they're good for pistols. That's what helmet ballistic helmets are for,

1482
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 2: and those are great for police riot rounds. A ballistic

1483
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 2: helmet is a really good thing to have if they

1484
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 2: are shooting rubber rounds or shooting grenades. Directly at people.

1485
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 2: It is not, however, the only thing you need or

1486
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,759
Speaker 2: the only thing that could provide safety. It's not ideal

1487
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 2: to have like a bump helmet or a bike helmet

1488
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 2: as opposed to a ballistic helmet, or like a bike

1489
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:14,559
Speaker 2: helmet as opposed to a bump helmet. These are different things.

1490
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:16,879
Speaker 2: A bump helmet is higher rated than like a standard

1491
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:20,639
Speaker 2: bike helmet. A motorcycle helmet is also pretty robust.

1492
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 1: A bumper.

1493
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 2: A motorcycle helmet is better to have if you're being

1494
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 2: shot at with non lethal or less than lethal whatever

1495
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 2: you want to call them munitions, but all of those,

1496
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:32,799
Speaker 2: any kind of helmet is better than your bare skull

1497
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 2: when police are shooting into a craft. So where something

1498
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 2: even if it's a ten dollars fucking bicycle helmet, if

1499
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 2: that's all you can get where that, don't go into

1500
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 2: a situation like this without a helmet. Bring something like

1501
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,640
Speaker 2: a fucking camelback or whatever that you can have on

1502
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 2: your back and drink water from regularly, as well as

1503
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 2: bottles of water that you can use to wash out

1504
01:14:55,640 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 2: tear gas. Only use water to wash out tear gas water.

1505
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,080
Speaker 2: And if you catch people being like milk works. Tell

1506
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:04,759
Speaker 2: them you are wrong. Don't use milk.

1507
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 7: No friends, corets, lovers, your family. He can be the

1508
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:13,719
Speaker 7: generation that stops using milk for tear gas.

1509
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 4: You can do this.

1510
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: You don't need to make cheese and your eyes only.

1511
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:22,680
Speaker 5: You can set people. For the love of God, it

1512
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 5: doesn't work anytime.

1513
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 2: And if somebody starts talking about well, no, you know,

1514
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 2: actually it's just like if you eat something spicy and milk.

1515
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, none of that's right. I'm

1516
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 1: telling you none of that's right.

1517
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 4: Now.

1518
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 2: Some people do use something called law, which is like

1519
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:40,600
Speaker 2: a mixture of I think it's an an answer or

1520
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:40,880
Speaker 2: something like that.

1521
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:43,639
Speaker 1: I think exactly what's in law, And yeah, that can

1522
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 1: be effective, but don't use it. Just use water. Use water.

1523
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: Use water. Just use water.

1524
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:51,720
Speaker 2: If you are if you have some degree of like

1525
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 2: professional medical treatment, and you decide law is better, do

1526
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 2: whatever you want doctor right, but like, don't you listening,

1527
01:15:58,479 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 2: use water right?

1528
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 5: Just water. Look melt ice into water.

1529
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 1: Clean water.

1530
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,200
Speaker 2: It's idea from something like guess anyway whatever. When it

1531
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 2: comes to mace, water eventually will get mace out. Mace

1532
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 2: is way different from tear gas. Tear gas. With water,

1533
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 2: you can be back to functional in a couple of minutes, right,

1534
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:21,680
Speaker 2: if you wash your eyes out. I've been tear gas

1535
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 2: like two hundred fucking times, and I'll tell you it

1536
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:25,719
Speaker 2: never takes that long to get your eyes functional again.

1537
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 5: Assuming.

1538
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 2: The other thing you want to note is that if

1539
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 2: you're going into a tear gas situation, if you wear contacts,

1540
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 2: don't glasses only, right, because you do not want to

1541
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 2: have mace or tear gas in your eyes. When you

1542
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,759
Speaker 2: have contacts, it can cause permanent debilitating damage.

1543
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 4: Right.

1544
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 2: They may need to surgically remove your fucking contacts where

1545
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 2: you're goddamn glasses. You can, and I have worn contacts

1546
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 2: with like a full face respirator or a full face

1547
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 2: gas mask. But there are still dangers there, including that

1548
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:55,800
Speaker 2: if you are wearing a full face mask or a

1549
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 2: gas mask or something like that and the police catch you,

1550
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 2: they will pull that up and mace you underneath your mask.

1551
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:04,160
Speaker 2: It's happened to a bunch of people I know. And

1552
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 2: if you're wearing contacts under there, you can get in

1553
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:09,720
Speaker 2: very bed shape. There are easy ways to make glasses

1554
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:12,880
Speaker 2: holders if you've got a spare pair of lenses inside

1555
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:15,599
Speaker 2: a mask like that. Anyway, the other thing to note

1556
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 2: is that mace is not the same as tear gas.

1557
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 2: Mace fucks you up for much longer. You are going

1558
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:22,960
Speaker 2: to be out of commission for at least probably twenty

1559
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:25,679
Speaker 2: to thirty minutes with mace. In the best case scenario,

1560
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 2: enough water will eventually wash out mace, right, It will

1561
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:33,640
Speaker 2: eventually deal with it, but not on any kind of

1562
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:36,479
Speaker 2: short timeframe. Right, It's going to take you a while

1563
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:39,520
Speaker 2: to get enough mace out of your eyes that way. Ideally,

1564
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:41,720
Speaker 2: you get to a place where you have access to

1565
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 2: something like a faucet or a hose, and you use

1566
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 2: dawn dish soap is the best thing to use. That's

1567
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:49,920
Speaker 2: going to remove the surface thing. There's a better thing

1568
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 2: for this, but I'm talking about if you don't have

1569
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,759
Speaker 2: access to specialized things or like baby shampoo, right, something

1570
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 2: like that. Ideally, dish shop next would be something like

1571
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 2: baby shampoo, right, with a good amount of water. The

1572
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 2: very best thing for mace is a specific wipe that's

1573
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 2: made to be used for this, and this does also

1574
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 2: help for tear gas. It's called pseudocon Wipes sud e

1575
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:10,680
Speaker 2: coo inn. You can buy it off of Amazon right now.

1576
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 2: They're not expensive. And carry a couple of packs. You

1577
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 2: generally want to like take what's in there in two

1578
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 2: different pieces and use one to kind of wipe away

1579
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:20,800
Speaker 2: from your eyes, and then the other to clean your

1580
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 2: face up afterwards, once you've removed the bulk of the material.

1581
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 1: Pseudocon wipes are the best thing to use with mace. Anyway.

1582
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 1: That's a quick and.

1583
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:31,800
Speaker 2: Dirty guide to what kind of stuff is useful for this.

1584
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 2: And as always, water water, water, Yeah.

1585
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:37,680
Speaker 7: And the one last thing I want to add is

1586
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:40,720
Speaker 7: that there is there is one more scourge that you

1587
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 7: can end in this generation. Stop getting kettled on bridges.

1588
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 7: I swear to God. Don't cross the bridge. Do not

1589
01:18:49,240 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 7: don't be like my action is we're going to hold

1590
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 7: a bridge. Every single time there's one of these goddamn protests,

1591
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:55,840
Speaker 7: like ten thousand people get a rest on the Brooklyn Bridge.

1592
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:58,080
Speaker 7: It happens every time. The thing with bridges is that

1593
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 7: if the police cut off both ends, you are now

1594
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:03,719
Speaker 7: stuck on the bridge. Don't go onto the bridge, simply

1595
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,760
Speaker 7: do not. Like I'm not even gonna give normally the

1596
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:08,439
Speaker 7: speech that I give here is about like, oh well,

1597
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:09,720
Speaker 7: if you've here on a bridge, make sure you can

1598
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:11,560
Speaker 7: hold one side of it. No, no, no, no, no

1599
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 7: fuck that. No bridges. Don't go on bridges. We can

1600
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 7: stop as a society. We have the technology. Don't get

1601
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 7: don't get kettled on a bridge. It is so fucking

1602
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 7: easy you simply don't go on the bridge.

1603
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:26,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and that's that's the episode for today. Everybody

1604
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:29,000
Speaker 2: use water, don't get kettled on bridges.

1605
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1606
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 1: Good luck everyone, Good luck, Hi everyone, and welcome to

1607
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 1: the podcast. It's me James today and I am lucky

1608
01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 1: to be joined again by make We're going to talk

1609
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:03,720
Speaker 1: today about and just like right off the top, this

1610
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 1: is going to be a sad episode. Not much good

1611
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 1: happens to migrants in Libya. A lot of bad stuff happens.

1612
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 1: And if you someone who prefers not to hear about

1613
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 1: like violence or sexual violence or incarceration, there's probably some

1614
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:23,360
Speaker 1: other stuff I'm overlooking, this might not be the episode

1615
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: for you, and that's fine. But Mick, how you doing. Hi, James,

1616
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 1: I'm goods I'm good. That was an uplifting intro, wasn't it.

1617
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:32,760
Speaker 1: I felt like that was a really positive way to

1618
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:33,400
Speaker 1: start the show.

1619
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:38,920
Speaker 4: Yes, definitely, definitely, but probably very warranted because it's not

1620
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:42,480
Speaker 4: going to be a fun episode. Like there's torture, there's imprisonments,

1621
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:47,799
Speaker 4: there's some slave months. It's horrible. Yeah, Libya is probably

1622
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 4: one of the worst countries in the world to be

1623
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:53,639
Speaker 4: a migrant at the moment, if not the the worst. Yeah.

1624
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:57,120
Speaker 1: I mean you have a whole industry, a whole part

1625
01:20:57,240 --> 01:21:02,759
Speaker 1: of their economy that is predicated on enslaving migrants lately

1626
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:06,719
Speaker 1: selling people and all of the other kinds of violence

1627
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 1: that come from that.

1628
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:12,120
Speaker 4: Exactly. There's I think over twenty or thirty different facilities

1629
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:17,880
Speaker 4: with varying degrees of government involvement in those facilities, and

1630
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:21,400
Speaker 4: it's very hard to pinpoint exactly like where does the

1631
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:27,880
Speaker 4: government and where does this human trafficking business begin? Right,

1632
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:31,640
Speaker 4: It's similar to like early mid Soviet Union, where there

1633
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:34,800
Speaker 4: was so much organized crime happening within the government that

1634
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 4: it was also impossible to distinguish like where one began

1635
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 4: and where the other ended. Yeah, like which was which

1636
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:45,679
Speaker 4: exactly it was under breast nev I think, but don't

1637
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:46,720
Speaker 4: don't quote me on that.

1638
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:47,639
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1639
01:21:48,280 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, so give us a lad only. Well, first

1640
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 1: of all, maybe I guess if people have been not listening,

1641
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:55,759
Speaker 1: why are we talking about Libya.

1642
01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:00,240
Speaker 4: Well, on May eighth, that was reported that the Trump

1643
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:04,679
Speaker 4: administration was considering deporting migrants to this North African country,

1644
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:08,679
Speaker 4: which is a new low. Like the bar is buried

1645
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:13,720
Speaker 4: and these motherfuckers just grabbed a shovel. I don't think

1646
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 4: it's possible to exaggerate just how cruel this would be

1647
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 4: if it were to happen. As I said earlier, Libya

1648
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 4: is probably the worst country in the world to be

1649
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:26,639
Speaker 4: a migrant at the moment. And to illustrate that, I'm

1650
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 4: going to briefly quote from this twenty twenty two the

1651
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 4: International article Men, women and children returned to Libya returned

1652
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 4: in this case meaning that they tried to cross the

1653
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:41,599
Speaker 4: Mediterranean and were picked up by the Libyan coast guards.

1654
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:47,320
Speaker 4: Returned to Libya face arbitrary detention, torture, cruel and inhumane

1655
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 4: detention conditions, rape and sexual violence, extortion, forced labor, and

1656
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:57,560
Speaker 4: unlawful killings. Instead of addressing this human rights crisis, the

1657
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:02,839
Speaker 4: Libyan Government of National Unity now called the GMU, continues

1658
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:07,519
Speaker 4: to facilitate further abuses and trench impunity, as illustrated by

1659
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 4: its recent appointment of Muhammad al Koha as Director of

1660
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:15,560
Speaker 4: the Department for Combating Illegal Migration, which we will be

1661
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:19,559
Speaker 4: referring to as the DCIM from now on to make

1662
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 4: that entire list. Somehow worse, there has been extensive documentation

1663
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:27,520
Speaker 4: from human rights groups that strongly suggest that the DCIM

1664
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:32,240
Speaker 4: works together with non governmental militias, making the latter responsible

1665
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 4: for at least six unofficial detention centers, although it is

1666
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 4: reasonable to assume that there might be more.

1667
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 1: So reporting out of Libya is hard to understate it. Yes,

1668
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:48,280
Speaker 1: Sally Hayden has an exlent book called My Fourth Time

1669
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:50,920
Speaker 1: We Drown that like, one of the things I like

1670
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 1: about it is it explains like her journalistic process, and

1671
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:57,920
Speaker 1: it's people who are detained in places where they can't

1672
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:02,240
Speaker 1: get out, clubbing together to get one message out on

1673
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 1: the one phone that one person smuggled in in part

1674
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:07,760
Speaker 1: right lake because someone had the battery, someone had the

1675
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:11,600
Speaker 1: screen or whatever, and someone else had a simcard and

1676
01:24:12,439 --> 01:24:14,800
Speaker 1: like that way could they could get a message out.

1677
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:17,799
Speaker 1: But it's everything that we hear about. We can assume

1678
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:20,040
Speaker 1: that there is probably a lot more of it happening

1679
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:22,599
Speaker 1: that we haven't heard about, or at least some more

1680
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: of it happening that we haven't heard about.

1681
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:27,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, the worst part about this is that it's knowing

1682
01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 4: that it's probably worse and it's probably more extensive than

1683
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:34,760
Speaker 4: we know, because Yeah, as you said, Libya is a

1684
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:39,240
Speaker 4: hard country to do this kind of reporting, and I

1685
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:42,000
Speaker 4: am assuming that it's not very safe for a journalists

1686
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:45,960
Speaker 4: to just go there and go talk to people. Yeah.

1687
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like at the end of the day, you're

1688
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 1: not just as I'm sure you'll explain, You're not just

1689
01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 1: fucking with the Libyan government. You're fucking with the European

1690
01:24:57,200 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 1: Union is absolutely complicit in this. They ain't coming to

1691
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 1: save you. We'll get to that how work. The EU

1692
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 1: is complicted in both funding and in actions. Yeah, so

1693
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 1: let's first get this onto the proper context. We're going

1694
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 1: to dive a bit into the history of Libya because

1695
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:16,880
Speaker 1: that played a major part in how this situation is

1696
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 1: right now. So we'll start by talking about the former

1697
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:24,760
Speaker 1: dictator Muamar Kadaffi. He took control of Libya through a

1698
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 1: military coudetta and ruled it from nineteen sixty nine up

1699
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:32,080
Speaker 1: until he faced mob justice in the Libyan Civil War

1700
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:36,639
Speaker 1: in twenty eleven. He is or was accused of human

1701
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: rights violations and cracking down heart on dis scent and opposition.

1702
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:44,240
Speaker 1: Initially was on the list of states which sponsored terrorism,

1703
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:47,920
Speaker 1: but from two thousand and four onwards he slowly began

1704
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 1: to rekindle ties with a number of countries, with one

1705
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: of the main champions for rehabilitation being Italy, the former

1706
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:58,280
Speaker 1: colonial power that had occupied Libya. So to no one's

1707
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: surprised we're bringing in colonial here now, James, you get

1708
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:05,720
Speaker 1: three guesses as to what one of the cooperations was

1709
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 1: between Libya and Italy. Well, I could get many things. Ray,

1710
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:15,080
Speaker 1: there's some stories about good Affi and Berlusconi, but we

1711
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:18,840
Speaker 1: won't talk about those. Was it preventing migrants crossing the

1712
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 1: Mediterranean Sea?

1713
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:21,679
Speaker 4: Yes, that is true.

1714
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, something the Italians loved to do.

1715
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 4: It was happening back then as well. Yeah, it's a

1716
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 4: really weird relationship between Italy and Libya. That's also kind

1717
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:35,439
Speaker 4: of fascinating. But then we're going to get all the

1718
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 4: way off topic if we dive into that.

1719
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:38,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1720
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:42,719
Speaker 4: So, somewhere between two thousand and four and two thousand

1721
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 4: and five, Libya was supplied with money and equipment to

1722
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:49,960
Speaker 4: help stem the flow of illegal migration coming from Africa.

1723
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 4: Kadaffi himself said in twenty ten that this was to

1724
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:56,920
Speaker 4: prevent the laws of European cultural identity to a new

1725
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 4: Black Europa, after Libya was paid fifty million euro for

1726
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:02,720
Speaker 4: this purpose that same year.

1727
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:06,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, based anti colonial. Yes, I'm sure there's a

1728
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:08,600
Speaker 1: good aff he did nothing wrong movement that exists on

1729
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 1: some corner of Reddit that I haven't oh got that

1730
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:14,240
Speaker 1: plummeted into yet. But yeah, this guy was a third.

1731
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:16,320
Speaker 4: I cannot find a stick long enough that I would

1732
01:27:16,360 --> 01:27:20,599
Speaker 4: touch that community with, to be honest. That's also something

1733
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:22,160
Speaker 4: that plays in here, and that I think if you

1734
01:27:22,280 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 4: read a lot of human rights reports you come across it.

1735
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:28,080
Speaker 4: But there's also like a distinct form of racism for

1736
01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 4: sub Saharan or like Eastern African people. Definitely, Yeah, that's

1737
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 4: also going to play into this. It's just a smorgas

1738
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:37,880
Speaker 4: board of bad stuff. Yeah.

1739
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:40,560
Speaker 1: I mean for people who perhaps grew up in the

1740
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:43,240
Speaker 1: United States, you know, for their own received veried education

1741
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:46,200
Speaker 1: in school about African geography and politics, like this can

1742
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:50,879
Speaker 1: be hard to grasp. Right, Like Africa is sometimes perceived

1743
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:54,240
Speaker 1: as a country, not a continent in sort of discourse

1744
01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 1: in the United States, and that's again, like it's not

1745
01:27:57,040 --> 01:27:59,880
Speaker 1: people's fault, like it's in nature. Our education is just

1746
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:03,920
Speaker 1: failing people. But yeah, if you're not familiar, rarely view

1747
01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:07,439
Speaker 1: it's called in North Africa and like great replacement style.

1748
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:13,559
Speaker 1: Racist conspiracies absolutely exist in North Africa about people from

1749
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:16,400
Speaker 1: Sub Saharan Africa, either that the parts of Africa that

1750
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 1: are beneath the Sahara Desert and in the which you

1751
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 1: could find by looking at them that. But yeah, like

1752
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:24,200
Speaker 1: just because this is in Africa, like racist shit is

1753
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:25,240
Speaker 1: absolutely going down.

1754
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:25,720
Speaker 8: No.

1755
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:28,719
Speaker 4: I think it was highlighted a bit when the president

1756
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:32,599
Speaker 4: or Prime Minister of Tunisia was cracking down on migration

1757
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 4: that there was also like a very distinct racism against

1758
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:38,280
Speaker 4: against Sub Saharan Africans.

1759
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, but it is.

1760
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:43,640
Speaker 1: It's a global thing where it because racist is a

1761
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 1: social construct and it's not like an inherent thing that

1762
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:50,479
Speaker 1: that you You'll hear this a lot. You know, I've

1763
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:52,879
Speaker 1: worked in Hispanijula a lot, right, the island that contains

1764
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 1: hating Dominican Republic, the island which receives millions of dollars

1765
01:28:56,400 --> 01:29:00,240
Speaker 1: from the United States to reinforce the border between two

1766
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:05,200
Speaker 1: nations that make it up. You will hear this reference

1767
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:09,640
Speaker 1: to Haitian people as black from Afro Caribbean Dominican people, right,

1768
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:13,720
Speaker 1: And this idea that there's this racial distinction between the two,

1769
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:16,599
Speaker 1: that it's a nature of race, right, it's it's such

1770
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 1: a construct between mobilized to create a power dynamic.

1771
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:23,519
Speaker 4: And that's a whole other topic of discussion because I

1772
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 4: identity and race are so intermingled but also so fluid.

1773
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:30,560
Speaker 4: Yeah that you could talk for hours about it, but

1774
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:33,800
Speaker 4: that's not why we're here. Yeah, a warming up ties

1775
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 4: with Libya as a pragmatic approach from the EU as

1776
01:29:37,160 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 4: it lies just on the doorstep of fortress Europe, but

1777
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:44,440
Speaker 4: also marked the start of set fortress to start externalizing

1778
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:48,640
Speaker 4: its borders into Africa, slowly working towards keeping migrants and

1779
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:52,519
Speaker 4: refugees from setting food on European soil, which would entitle

1780
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 4: them to apply for asylum. So even that's that that

1781
01:29:56,640 --> 01:30:00,120
Speaker 4: step that's encoded in European law, we're trying to like

1782
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:03,760
Speaker 4: circumvent by just making sure that they don't cross the Mediterranean.

1783
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 5: Right.

1784
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:07,360
Speaker 4: So sometime later, when the civil war began during the

1785
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:10,760
Speaker 4: Art Spring, Yeah, Libyan dissidents got rid of the sex

1786
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:14,599
Speaker 4: best that was more Mar Kadaffi so the world became

1787
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 4: a slightly better place after that. Currently, there are two

1788
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:21,439
Speaker 4: major factions fighting over power in Libya, although there are

1789
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:25,519
Speaker 4: numerous other groups involved. To dive into this would probably

1790
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:27,400
Speaker 4: take up most of the episodes, so I will leave

1791
01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:30,560
Speaker 4: that aside. Yeah. The first of the major factions is

1792
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:34,439
Speaker 4: the GNU. The Government of National Unity, led by Prime

1793
01:30:34,479 --> 01:30:39,080
Speaker 4: Minister Abdul ahmit de Deba, even fills the north west

1794
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:42,479
Speaker 4: of Libya, including the capital Tripoli. The other faction is

1795
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 4: led by US Libyan National Khalifa Hafta, who commands the

1796
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:51,160
Speaker 4: Libyan National Army or LNA, who expressed loyalty to the

1797
01:30:51,200 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 4: elected governments and are therefore often referred to as the

1798
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 4: ho R the House of Represented Sentatives. I will try

1799
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:03,520
Speaker 4: to be consistent with these acronyms, but no guarantees. Unsurprisingly,

1800
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 4: after I was mentioned in accusations made in twenty three

1801
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:10,840
Speaker 4: for his militia's treatment of migrants, with some reports indicating

1802
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:15,080
Speaker 4: that they or he may be profiting of the smuggling SAM.

1803
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:18,080
Speaker 4: We pretty much got a warlord over there with an

1804
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:24,040
Speaker 4: army at his disposal who's not disincentivized not treat migrants

1805
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:28,720
Speaker 4: as things for his own profit. Yeah, right, Another fun

1806
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:31,840
Speaker 4: fact that reveals how absolutely fucked up the situation is

1807
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 4: the capture and subsequent release of infamous warlord Osama Ala

1808
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:41,800
Speaker 4: Musti by Italy. Al Masri had outstanding warrants from the

1809
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:45,679
Speaker 4: International Criminal Court due to him having the triply branch

1810
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:50,120
Speaker 4: of detention centers backed by the Special Defense Force, both

1811
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:52,639
Speaker 4: of which are used of atrocities and war crimes during

1812
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:55,600
Speaker 4: the Civil War. He was captured in Turin after a

1813
01:31:55,880 --> 01:31:59,680
Speaker 4: soccer match. The ICC requested he be arrested, but they

1814
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:03,559
Speaker 4: too based tribunal declines to approve prove it, after which

1815
01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 4: I must relyos for his knies back into Libya Jesus.

1816
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:10,479
Speaker 1: So yeah right, we love our ICC and then not

1817
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:14,559
Speaker 1: following through on it, Yeah right, Like the ICIC does

1818
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 1: not in fact have an army that it can send

1819
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:17,840
Speaker 1: out to people who completely ignore it.

1820
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:20,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a body that doesn't have any power to

1821
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:24,360
Speaker 4: really enforce decisions. I know that the current Dutch Prime

1822
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:27,559
Speaker 4: Minister said of Benjamin Nett and Yahoo that they could

1823
01:32:27,680 --> 01:32:31,559
Speaker 4: just ignore the outstanding warrant for his arrest, that Yao

1824
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:36,519
Speaker 4: could just visit the Netherlands, which, like, I don't even

1825
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:37,519
Speaker 4: know what to say about that.

1826
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:40,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is the nature of what you're

1827
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:43,799
Speaker 1: talking about in an extent, right, like the ICC's rulings,

1828
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 1: and all human rights only exist insofar as they are

1829
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:48,599
Speaker 1: convenient to the powerful states in the world.

1830
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:51,280
Speaker 4: It's very much it rules for d but not for

1831
01:32:51,479 --> 01:32:52,960
Speaker 4: me kind of attitude.

1832
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:53,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

1833
01:32:54,160 --> 01:32:58,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I find it extremely disheartening and I feel myself

1834
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:01,599
Speaker 4: growing more cynical because of this world that I grew

1835
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:04,800
Speaker 4: up in and I'm slowly seeing that all the rules

1836
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:06,320
Speaker 4: and all the great things that I was taught in

1837
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 4: school are kind of not rules but more like guidelines. Yeah.

1838
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:13,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that only applied to certain people. It's really

1839
01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:16,240
Speaker 1: heartbreaking to see. Like I mean, I've heard it a

1840
01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:19,519
Speaker 1: lot from people, right, but especially from Burmese people. They

1841
01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 1: really educated themselves an international law. When they were going

1842
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:24,560
Speaker 1: out to protest. At first, they talk about the r

1843
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:29,320
Speaker 1: twop like the responsibility to protect, which is it doesn't

1844
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:32,679
Speaker 1: matter to concept in international law that I've allowed someone

1845
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:37,400
Speaker 1: to intervene, and like they thought, this is the international law,

1846
01:33:37,479 --> 01:33:39,720
Speaker 1: it's the world law, so someone's going to do it,

1847
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:42,880
Speaker 1: and like no, you know, over the months that they

1848
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:45,800
Speaker 1: were in the streets, over the thousands of deaths that

1849
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:49,840
Speaker 1: they've seen now they've come to realize that that that

1850
01:33:50,200 --> 01:33:52,240
Speaker 1: law isn't there to protect them, that there's no one

1851
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:54,400
Speaker 1: who's coming to save them, and that's led to them

1852
01:33:54,439 --> 01:33:57,400
Speaker 1: building a very unique and beautiful revolution. But at the

1853
01:33:57,439 --> 01:34:01,200
Speaker 1: same time it's costs thousands of innocent lives. It's heartbreaking

1854
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 1: to see their faith being misplaced in this institution. It

1855
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:06,160
Speaker 1: doesn't care about it.

1856
01:34:06,760 --> 01:34:08,840
Speaker 4: We can talk very high and mighty about all these

1857
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 4: laws and whether in war or whether but refugees, but

1858
01:34:13,880 --> 01:34:16,880
Speaker 4: in the end, very often they just seem worth as

1859
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:19,840
Speaker 4: much as the paper they're written on. Yeah, exactly, It's

1860
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:23,960
Speaker 4: okay to become cynical after that realization. Yeah. So, while

1861
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:28,360
Speaker 4: the conditions for migrants were getting noticeably more horrible in

1862
01:34:28,439 --> 01:34:32,360
Speaker 4: the aftermath of the twenty eleven intervention by NATO, it was,

1863
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:35,960
Speaker 4: as we said earlier, by no means the start coulduff

1864
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:39,520
Speaker 4: be very much used migration as leverage to gain concessions

1865
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:43,800
Speaker 4: and standing among European governmental bodies. Exploitation of migrants was

1866
01:34:43,880 --> 01:34:46,759
Speaker 4: already reported by Human rights WROTS back in two thousand

1867
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:49,400
Speaker 4: and nine in a similar vein the fact that the

1868
01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 4: Libyan Coast Guard routinely picks up migrants in the international

1869
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:56,760
Speaker 4: waters to return them to Libya has also been documented

1870
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:00,160
Speaker 4: as early as two thousand and nine. How Frontecs is

1871
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:03,600
Speaker 4: involved with that will get to that later. These processes

1872
01:35:03,680 --> 01:35:06,479
Speaker 4: and dynamics were very much already in play prior to

1873
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:11,320
Speaker 4: Cadulphie meeting his maker. This kidnapping of migrants, because I

1874
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:14,120
Speaker 4: don't think there's a better or a harsher word for it,

1875
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:19,280
Speaker 4: is an explicit violation of international European and Italian law.

1876
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:25,000
Speaker 4: Non reviolment, which is the principle in these laws, means

1877
01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:28,080
Speaker 4: that no refugee shall be returned or expelled to a

1878
01:35:28,240 --> 01:35:32,639
Speaker 4: territory against their will where their freedoms and life are threatened.

1879
01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:38,200
Speaker 4: From January first, twenty nineteen to June thirtieth, twenty twenty,

1880
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:42,840
Speaker 4: Libya received sixty one point six million euros as part

1881
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:48,880
Speaker 4: of the European Union Integrated Border Management Assistance Mission mandate,

1882
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:53,320
Speaker 4: with an explicit focus on establishing state security structures in

1883
01:35:53,360 --> 01:35:56,240
Speaker 4: the country. Funding is meant to help stem migration to

1884
01:35:56,320 --> 01:36:00,639
Speaker 4: Europe with strengthening the border management, law enforcements and criminal

1885
01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:04,080
Speaker 4: justice systems of Libya. Emphasis is placed on disrupting the

1886
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:08,080
Speaker 4: networks that operate the smuggling and trafficking of persons. We

1887
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:15,360
Speaker 4: already discussed. These institutions are directly or indirectly contributing very

1888
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:20,400
Speaker 4: often to the exploitation and enslaverment of refugees. So that's

1889
01:36:20,479 --> 01:36:23,840
Speaker 4: sixty one million euros that has indirectly gone through those

1890
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:29,000
Speaker 4: very systems that enslave and torture people. Yeah. So the

1891
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:32,439
Speaker 4: many liberal authorities often have direct links to militias or

1892
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 4: organized crime groups that engage in these practices. Authorities in

1893
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:40,320
Speaker 4: the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Interior, the Department

1894
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:44,160
Speaker 4: to Combat Irregular Migration, the Libyan Coast Guard, and the

1895
01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 4: Special Deterrence Force have all been implicated. It has gotten

1896
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:50,679
Speaker 4: so bad that even the Ministry of Defense employs Coast

1897
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:53,840
Speaker 4: Guard units that are made up of militias who profit

1898
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:56,120
Speaker 4: from these human rights abuses. Yeah.

1899
01:36:56,920 --> 01:36:59,639
Speaker 1: Fastical to think that like you could throw some money

1900
01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:03,439
Speaker 1: at this problem and not just like more empowered these people.

1901
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 4: Yes, it's even I think when we talked last year

1902
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:11,040
Speaker 4: about this, I think Rose from Migrant mentioned it. But

1903
01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:14,320
Speaker 4: the Libyans get paid twice because first they get paid

1904
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:18,240
Speaker 4: to make sure that to return these migrants back to Libya,

1905
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:21,200
Speaker 4: but then they can also get paid for selling them

1906
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:24,400
Speaker 4: into slavery. What do you even say to that.

1907
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's genuinely unfavorable for a lot of

1908
01:37:27,240 --> 01:37:29,799
Speaker 1: people than twenty twenty five. People are absolutely being captured

1909
01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:32,439
Speaker 1: and sold into slavery. That is occurring.

1910
01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:36,240
Speaker 4: Yes, I've read some Human Rights Watch accounts of people

1911
01:37:36,280 --> 01:37:40,200
Speaker 4: who were imprisoned for sometimes years and then made to

1912
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:43,840
Speaker 4: work in one way or another. For whoever ran that

1913
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:47,640
Speaker 4: particular detention center and the one that I'm thinking of

1914
01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:50,840
Speaker 4: right now, after six years, I think that person was

1915
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:56,519
Speaker 4: able to buy himself away from the authorities than his

1916
01:37:56,720 --> 01:38:01,040
Speaker 4: boat was captured within thirty minutes after he got off

1917
01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:04,639
Speaker 4: the boat, Libya got back to a different attention center

1918
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:07,040
Speaker 4: where he spent four days, and I think after that

1919
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:10,760
Speaker 4: he got another chance on the boat, and I think

1920
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:14,840
Speaker 4: he was rescued by a volunteer or human rights organizations

1921
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:17,799
Speaker 4: who are also patrolling the sea north of Libya.

1922
01:38:18,080 --> 01:38:21,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, we interviewed some of them talking of patrolling the seas.

1923
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:24,479
Speaker 1: Maybe this is an advert for a boat.

1924
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:28,040
Speaker 4: Yes, there will be a frontact at right now for

1925
01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:29,280
Speaker 4: all the European listeners.

1926
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:41,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, we are back.

1927
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 4: So we left off with just briefly mentioning how the

1928
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:48,559
Speaker 4: Libyan state functions as part of this almost an organized

1929
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:52,360
Speaker 4: crime syndicated profits from the abusive innocent people, and this

1930
01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:56,080
Speaker 4: is in a way not really surprising. Back in eighty five,

1931
01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:00,600
Speaker 4: academic Charles Tilly already argued that the states as a

1932
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:04,479
Speaker 4: form of social organization, it's pretty much indistinguishable from an

1933
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:08,280
Speaker 4: organized crime group. Yeah. I'll make sure that the sources

1934
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:11,400
Speaker 4: in the description below if anyone is interested, But for

1935
01:39:11,439 --> 01:39:13,559
Speaker 4: those who don't want to read it, in very short,

1936
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 4: they're both major organizations over which you have very little control,

1937
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:20,080
Speaker 4: and if you don't pay them the taxes or protection

1938
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,880
Speaker 4: money that they want, then people will show up to

1939
01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:27,720
Speaker 4: break your legs. That's the two sentence explanation of that article. Yeah,

1940
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:31,559
Speaker 4: I like that. After the principle of non refoulment has

1941
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:35,759
Speaker 4: been violated, refugees are brought to detention centers in theory

1942
01:39:35,920 --> 01:39:40,240
Speaker 4: under the supervision of the DCIM. In practice, this does

1943
01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:43,759
Speaker 4: not hold up. There are no official or verified numbers

1944
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,679
Speaker 4: of how many centers there are or how many people

1945
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:50,559
Speaker 4: are even held captive. They are Libyan numbers, just somewhere

1946
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 4: between seventeen to thirty five facilities holding over seven thousand people.

1947
01:39:55,640 --> 01:39:58,240
Speaker 4: Human rights groups have questioned these numbers and argued that

1948
01:39:58,360 --> 01:40:02,639
Speaker 4: the number is likely between ten twenty thousands people being

1949
01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:07,280
Speaker 4: held captive. The reality is that we simply don't know. Yeah,

1950
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:10,320
Speaker 4: we don't know exactly how many facilities there are to

1951
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:12,360
Speaker 4: hold these people, and we don't know how many people

1952
01:40:12,400 --> 01:40:17,479
Speaker 4: are in them. Human rights watchers or UN delegates often

1953
01:40:17,520 --> 01:40:20,000
Speaker 4: don't get the full picture even if they go there

1954
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 4: to visit and inspect the places. There was one part

1955
01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:27,479
Speaker 4: of what I read where they would only be allowed

1956
01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:30,880
Speaker 4: during the day, but then at night is when most

1957
01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:34,400
Speaker 4: of the horrible stuff happens. Yeah, So still there's very

1958
01:40:34,479 --> 01:40:37,800
Speaker 4: much a process of trying to not show what is

1959
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:41,439
Speaker 4: being done there. People in these detention centers are held

1960
01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:46,040
Speaker 4: indefinitely and lack any sort of legal processes or procedures

1961
01:40:46,160 --> 01:40:50,639
Speaker 4: to determine their status. In fact, according to a twenty

1962
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:54,840
Speaker 4: nineteen RUN report, there is no official procedure to assess

1963
01:40:54,840 --> 01:40:58,920
Speaker 4: asylum status in Libya, meaning that in the legal sense,

1964
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:01,040
Speaker 4: these categories absolutely meaningless.

1965
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:01,400
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1966
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:03,439
Speaker 4: On top of that, there's also a lack of a

1967
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:08,200
Speaker 4: process for exiting entertainment, so that that's an entire procedure

1968
01:41:08,240 --> 01:41:10,719
Speaker 4: that is just done at the whim of whoever happens

1969
01:41:10,760 --> 01:41:13,200
Speaker 4: to control like that particular facility.

1970
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that could be someone who has just like

1971
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:20,799
Speaker 1: seized it by arms from whoever controlled it last, right, exactly.

1972
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:24,320
Speaker 4: There's sometimes facilities are abandoned and they can become official.

1973
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:28,719
Speaker 4: There's also been reports of the government rating like unofficial centers,

1974
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:32,599
Speaker 4: but then recapturing those people and put them in official centers.

1975
01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:34,280
Speaker 1: Great, that'll make it better.

1976
01:41:34,800 --> 01:41:37,799
Speaker 4: It would be funny if it wasn't so fucking horrible.

1977
01:41:38,479 --> 01:41:40,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's bleak.

1978
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:44,920
Speaker 4: The DCM closed down five centers that had a history

1979
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:48,799
Speaker 4: of human rights violations. This act, however, had little effect

1980
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:53,720
Speaker 4: on holding abuses. Reports of beatings and torture continued as

1981
01:41:53,800 --> 01:41:57,760
Speaker 4: some official centers closed by the DCIM quickly became unofficial

1982
01:41:57,840 --> 01:42:03,560
Speaker 4: sites reopened and operated militia's. Yeah. For example, the Buisa

1983
01:42:03,760 --> 01:42:08,080
Speaker 4: Official Attention Center in Sawiya was ordered to close due

1984
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:11,320
Speaker 4: to reports of sexual abuse taking place. He reopened a

1985
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:14,800
Speaker 4: day later and operated under a new name managed by

1986
01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:19,720
Speaker 4: armed groups. DTAEE explanation was seamlessly transferred from official to

1987
01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:23,960
Speaker 4: unofficial banners, helping empower militants and criminal actors in the region.

1988
01:42:24,800 --> 01:42:27,320
Speaker 4: So we're now going to take a deeper look at

1989
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:32,360
Speaker 4: these centers. I found an amazing article by Nadia aldayon

1990
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:38,640
Speaker 4: Aaron Anfinson and Graham Anfinson in there, and James that

1991
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:43,120
Speaker 4: this Israel the Journal of Human Trafficking, which is an

1992
01:42:43,200 --> 01:42:45,360
Speaker 4: actual academic journal that exists.

1993
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:48,599
Speaker 1: Jesus, Yeah, I mean I guess. Yeah. If there's the thing,

1994
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:51,680
Speaker 1: someone has written a PhD di station about it, it

1995
01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:52,280
Speaker 1: makes sense.

1996
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:55,679
Speaker 4: I imagine this journal is just one or two articles

1997
01:42:55,720 --> 01:42:58,360
Speaker 4: and for the rest it's just pictures of Jeffrey Epstein

1998
01:42:58,400 --> 01:43:04,800
Speaker 4: and Andrew Tage, just back to back to back. Because ah, yeah, again,

1999
01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:06,760
Speaker 4: would would be funny if it.

2000
01:43:06,920 --> 01:43:11,759
Speaker 1: Wasn't so fu Yeah, yeah, I can't. I can't imagine

2001
01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 1: working as an editor at the Journal of Human Trafficking

2002
01:43:14,200 --> 01:43:16,600
Speaker 1: is a job that like you have that is like

2003
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:20,320
Speaker 1: the like the special Force selection cause of mental health. Yeah,

2004
01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:22,680
Speaker 1: like you you are facing all the challenges that can

2005
01:43:22,720 --> 01:43:23,559
Speaker 1: be thrown in a person.

2006
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:27,920
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm sure there's like a psychologist like on

2007
01:43:28,120 --> 01:43:31,120
Speaker 4: standby at the journal just to make sure like that

2008
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:34,960
Speaker 4: that the people running guitar roll right. Yeah. So these

2009
01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:39,200
Speaker 4: academics distinguished between three types of centers, official meaning they

2010
01:43:39,240 --> 01:43:41,160
Speaker 4: are run by the state in so far as that

2011
01:43:41,320 --> 01:43:44,759
Speaker 4: means anything. Of course, then there are the two unofficial types,

2012
01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:49,160
Speaker 4: which I will call semi official and officious. Semi official

2013
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:53,200
Speaker 4: centers are those run partially by state forces in cooperation

2014
01:43:53,479 --> 01:43:58,240
Speaker 4: with local groups, militias, or other non state actors. Official

2015
01:43:58,360 --> 01:44:01,920
Speaker 4: centers are those run entirely by non state forces. What

2016
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:06,080
Speaker 4: conditions in official centers are air quotes better than the

2017
01:44:06,200 --> 01:44:08,680
Speaker 4: latter two. It's by no means a good place to be.

2018
01:44:09,439 --> 01:44:12,479
Speaker 4: None of these three categories are exempt from all the

2019
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:15,360
Speaker 4: violence being done to people. All three have been named

2020
01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:19,240
Speaker 4: and implicated in abuses and violations. According to the authors,

2021
01:44:19,320 --> 01:44:24,160
Speaker 4: there are about twenty one official sites, twelve semi official,

2022
01:44:24,720 --> 01:44:28,479
Speaker 4: and twenty two of vicious sides, with one reportedly being

2023
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:32,519
Speaker 4: run by ISIS in Naphalia back in twenty fifteen. Cool

2024
01:44:33,640 --> 01:44:36,439
Speaker 4: ISIS had a stronghold in Libya back in the day.

2025
01:44:36,720 --> 01:44:37,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I did.

2026
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:40,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, And the fact that ISIS might have been involved

2027
01:44:40,439 --> 01:44:43,400
Speaker 4: in human trafficking is the least surprising thing here. Yeah.

2028
01:44:43,439 --> 01:44:45,800
Speaker 1: I mean they were trafficking people into the Islamic State,

2029
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:49,280
Speaker 1: into their what their so called caliphate, right, Yeah, this.

2030
01:44:49,439 --> 01:44:52,400
Speaker 4: Is progressed, and now trafficking people away from it. Yeah,

2031
01:44:52,640 --> 01:44:55,360
Speaker 4: this is a small victories. Of all these sites that

2032
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:59,240
Speaker 4: I just mentioned, a remarkable amount is Intriqually, the capital

2033
01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:03,240
Speaker 4: of Libya. Sometimes these sites overlap with areas with known

2034
01:45:03,280 --> 01:45:07,519
Speaker 4: prostitution rings. The researchers found at least nine such networks,

2035
01:45:07,960 --> 01:45:10,360
Speaker 4: with the majority of the sex slaves being from Sub

2036
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:14,439
Speaker 4: Saharan regions to East Africa. Jesus, they are mostly women,

2037
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:17,880
Speaker 4: but it also happens to men. Libya has no laws

2038
01:45:18,160 --> 01:45:22,360
Speaker 4: or procedures to criminalize male sex trafficking, while man are

2039
01:45:22,439 --> 01:45:25,759
Speaker 4: still the minority. I do think it's worth mentioning. Yeah, absolutely,

2040
01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:30,320
Speaker 4: that is also something that happens and most likely underreported on.

2041
01:45:30,520 --> 01:45:33,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's something you'd really struggle, Like the

2042
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:38,040
Speaker 1: nature of masculinity and like its toxicity makes it hard

2043
01:45:38,120 --> 01:45:40,479
Speaker 1: for people to come forward to you and say this

2044
01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:41,280
Speaker 1: is happening to.

2045
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:45,120
Speaker 4: Me, right exactly, And it makes that that process becomes

2046
01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:48,520
Speaker 4: even harder if there is no legal framework to stand.

2047
01:45:48,320 --> 01:45:51,080
Speaker 1: On, yeah exactly, there's like there's nothing to say like

2048
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:53,759
Speaker 1: this is that at least you can say what's happening

2049
01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:56,600
Speaker 1: to you is wrong. It's perceived as a crime, right, Like,

2050
01:45:56,680 --> 01:46:00,560
Speaker 1: if that's not there, it's no like, how can I

2051
01:46:00,640 --> 01:46:03,280
Speaker 1: support this person, Right, who do you direct that person to?

2052
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:07,200
Speaker 1: Like exactly anybody who has been trafficked and forced into

2053
01:46:07,280 --> 01:46:10,240
Speaker 1: sex work, like, and I've spoken to migrants for whom

2054
01:46:10,280 --> 01:46:12,680
Speaker 1: that has been the case. Like, there's a great deal

2055
01:46:12,720 --> 01:46:15,040
Speaker 1: of stigma they have to overcome, which they shouldn't have to, Like,

2056
01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:17,679
Speaker 1: it's not none of what's happened to them is their choice,

2057
01:46:18,240 --> 01:46:20,320
Speaker 1: but it's very difficult for them to talk about it,

2058
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:24,639
Speaker 1: and it's very unlikely for them to really be able

2059
01:46:24,760 --> 01:46:27,680
Speaker 1: to get any form of accountability for the people who

2060
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:28,280
Speaker 1: did this to them.

2061
01:46:28,280 --> 01:46:29,240
Speaker 4: And that's in.

2062
01:46:29,320 --> 01:46:32,800
Speaker 1: Settings outside of Libya, like in Libya, fucking good luck,

2063
01:46:32,880 --> 01:46:33,520
Speaker 1: I imagine.

2064
01:46:33,800 --> 01:46:37,240
Speaker 4: Like, I think that's just a problem in general, not

2065
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:40,639
Speaker 4: just in Libya. Yeah, it's arguably much worse than Libya.

2066
01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:45,120
Speaker 4: But yeah, even in countries that we're much more familiar with,

2067
01:46:46,200 --> 01:46:49,280
Speaker 4: this is happening, and it's still very hard to obtain

2068
01:46:49,320 --> 01:46:53,960
Speaker 4: the accountability from the perpetrators that any better world would

2069
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:57,040
Speaker 4: be happening. Yeah, So I am now going to quote

2070
01:46:57,040 --> 01:47:00,600
Speaker 4: for the article for the next batch of horrors for

2071
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:04,560
Speaker 4: women and girls. Various degrees of sexual violence were commonplace

2072
01:47:05,200 --> 01:47:09,120
Speaker 4: facilities that did allow some angio access barred visitations at night,

2073
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:14,240
Speaker 4: which is when many severe abuses occurred. Detention center operators

2074
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:17,280
Speaker 4: performed systemic rape on women and teenage girls on a

2075
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:22,200
Speaker 4: nightly basis. Those that resisted were threatened with death. Others

2076
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:27,000
Speaker 4: were killed by severe sexual assault and rape. Impregnations by

2077
01:47:27,040 --> 01:47:32,400
Speaker 4: the detention center of officials also occurred. So yeah, I'm

2078
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:36,200
Speaker 4: going to briefly cite the accounts of someone who has

2079
01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:41,800
Speaker 4: been for that. Afni, which is a pseudonym. An eighteen

2080
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:45,080
Speaker 4: year old Somali woman told me very softly that she

2081
01:47:45,280 --> 01:47:47,960
Speaker 4: was gang raped by smugglers multiple times near the end

2082
01:47:48,040 --> 01:47:50,599
Speaker 4: of the two years she spent confined in a smuggler

2083
01:47:50,640 --> 01:47:54,439
Speaker 4: warehouse in Kufra. Released from the warehouse and dispatched the

2084
01:47:54,479 --> 01:47:58,200
Speaker 4: Tripoli defend for herself. When she became pregnant, Aufne gave

2085
01:47:58,240 --> 01:48:01,040
Speaker 4: birth to a little girl, depending on handouts and help

2086
01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:03,760
Speaker 4: from strangers to survive. She told me that when she

2087
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:06,720
Speaker 4: decided to attempt to see Crossing with her daughter, they

2088
01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:10,120
Speaker 4: ended up in another nightmarriage smuggler warehouse, where one of

2089
01:48:10,160 --> 01:48:12,920
Speaker 4: the smugglers refused to find food for her baby unless

2090
01:48:12,960 --> 01:48:15,519
Speaker 4: Afne had sex with him. Her daughter died when she

2091
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:16,479
Speaker 4: was seven months old.

2092
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:21,559
Speaker 5: God oh what a fucking leak thing.

2093
01:48:21,840 --> 01:48:24,680
Speaker 4: Yes, the entire article that that quote was frob is

2094
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:29,360
Speaker 4: like rife with crimes like this. Yeah, right, is horrific stuff.

2095
01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:32,439
Speaker 4: I'll make sure that it's in the notes below if

2096
01:48:32,960 --> 01:48:36,519
Speaker 4: you would want to read that. Yeah, and absolutely no

2097
01:48:36,680 --> 01:48:40,040
Speaker 4: shame with people don't want to read this because it

2098
01:48:40,240 --> 01:48:43,880
Speaker 4: is fucked Yeah. Yeah, you didn't have to expect yourself

2099
01:48:43,920 --> 01:48:47,639
Speaker 4: to all this. You don't have to know every detail

2100
01:48:47,680 --> 01:48:49,679
Speaker 4: that is to care about people. I think it's okay

2101
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:54,760
Speaker 4: not to read it. Yeah. Ah, so I want to

2102
01:48:54,880 --> 01:48:59,479
Speaker 4: close this particular censure budget brutally driving this point home.

2103
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:03,439
Speaker 4: But like women and teenage girls are being raped to

2104
01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:08,920
Speaker 4: death over there on a systemic level. Yeah, and I'm

2105
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:11,559
Speaker 4: fucking disgusted with the fact that the EU is still

2106
01:49:12,160 --> 01:49:15,600
Speaker 4: sending money there that is indirectly facilitating this.

2107
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:19,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've mean fucking well, it gets on it's high

2108
01:49:19,439 --> 01:49:22,360
Speaker 1: horse about like gender and quality and women's rights and

2109
01:49:22,439 --> 01:49:26,040
Speaker 1: such things, and then like unless it's the inconvenient gender

2110
01:49:26,040 --> 01:49:29,320
Speaker 1: equality of migrants, right, or that the rights of migrants.

2111
01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:32,400
Speaker 4: Which yeah, I need a cigarette now. Fuck.

2112
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:35,599
Speaker 1: It's the fucking worst thing that I deal with talking

2113
01:49:35,640 --> 01:49:38,799
Speaker 1: to people about work. It's like people who have survived

2114
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:43,560
Speaker 1: sexual violence, or like people who can reasonably expect to

2115
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:47,320
Speaker 1: encounter it and making this journey because they think that

2116
01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:48,799
Speaker 1: it's their only option anyway.

2117
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:53,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's not that people who undertake this journey

2118
01:49:53,800 --> 01:49:56,879
Speaker 4: to a batel of life that they want are unaware

2119
01:49:57,160 --> 01:49:57,960
Speaker 4: of the risks.

2120
01:49:58,360 --> 01:50:01,599
Speaker 1: It's despite the risks that they're just doing it. Yeah,

2121
01:50:01,920 --> 01:50:04,600
Speaker 1: that's the same in the Americas, rightly, people understand that

2122
01:50:04,720 --> 01:50:07,920
Speaker 1: they're you know, I mentioned this in my Darien Gap episode,

2123
01:50:07,960 --> 01:50:11,200
Speaker 1: but very young children are subject to sexual violence, which

2124
01:50:11,240 --> 01:50:15,599
Speaker 1: also sometimes results in their death. Yeah, and like they

2125
01:50:15,760 --> 01:50:20,000
Speaker 1: understand that the world is at such an exaggerated level

2126
01:50:20,040 --> 01:50:22,400
Speaker 1: of inequality that people are willing to take those risks

2127
01:50:22,560 --> 01:50:25,120
Speaker 1: because that's the way the only way that they feel

2128
01:50:25,200 --> 01:50:27,719
Speaker 1: they can secure a safe future for their children.

2129
01:50:28,160 --> 01:50:28,360
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2130
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:31,519
Speaker 4: It is a level of courage that I cannot fathom.

2131
01:50:32,040 --> 01:50:32,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, me need that.

2132
01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:35,240
Speaker 4: The best I could do was just acknowledge that I

2133
01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:38,599
Speaker 4: can't fathom it. But that's also like a very bitter

2134
01:50:38,720 --> 01:50:39,519
Speaker 4: built to swallow.

2135
01:50:40,240 --> 01:50:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is like I uh, you know, I attend

2136
01:50:43,479 --> 01:50:47,400
Speaker 1: wars for work sometimes, and the women who take on

2137
01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:50,719
Speaker 1: the migration, especially when not that men are not subect

2138
01:50:50,760 --> 01:50:53,680
Speaker 1: to sexual violence. Say ah, but it's probably more likely

2139
01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:56,720
Speaker 1: for women to experience it. The women who take on

2140
01:50:56,840 --> 01:51:01,120
Speaker 1: the migration journey alone or with their children. Those people's bravery,

2141
01:51:01,439 --> 01:51:05,120
Speaker 1: Like I can't fathom being that brain. I can't imagine

2142
01:51:05,160 --> 01:51:08,759
Speaker 1: how one can be that courageous dedicated to one's child.

2143
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:14,400
Speaker 1: And we talked in our podcast recently about Primrose who

2144
01:51:14,479 --> 01:51:17,400
Speaker 1: came with her daughter, Like that's someone I'm still like

2145
01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:21,160
Speaker 1: just in awe of, you know, like you don't see

2146
01:51:21,200 --> 01:51:27,320
Speaker 1: that kind of courage and dedication and just like ability

2147
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:32,320
Speaker 1: to push through things that are horrific with this goal

2148
01:51:32,400 --> 01:51:35,560
Speaker 1: in mind of reaching the United States, Like it's and

2149
01:51:35,960 --> 01:51:38,400
Speaker 1: it continues to be something that I struggled to find

2150
01:51:38,439 --> 01:51:41,520
Speaker 1: words to express obviously, but it's really something.

2151
01:51:41,880 --> 01:51:46,360
Speaker 4: I want to say something, but just speechless, Yeah much

2152
01:51:46,479 --> 01:51:50,960
Speaker 4: to say, you know who else should be speechless?

2153
01:51:51,680 --> 01:51:55,080
Speaker 1: Is it the products and services to support this podcast?

2154
01:51:55,640 --> 01:51:58,360
Speaker 4: I sure hope. So it's just two minutes of silence.

2155
01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:00,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully it'll just be a little moment for quiet

2156
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:12,920
Speaker 1: contemplation for all of Yeah. There, all right, we're back.

2157
01:52:13,000 --> 01:52:17,559
Speaker 1: We've we've had a glass of water, and we're going

2158
01:52:17,600 --> 01:52:19,040
Speaker 1: to keep doing the podcast anyway.

2159
01:52:20,360 --> 01:52:25,600
Speaker 4: Yes, rehydrates a bit. Yeah. Yeah, so in terms of

2160
01:52:26,040 --> 01:52:31,960
Speaker 4: like explicit accounts, that was it. Okay, Yeah, so if

2161
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:34,439
Speaker 4: someone had to skip over that part, that part of

2162
01:52:34,479 --> 01:52:37,680
Speaker 4: the episode should be done. You can start listening again. So,

2163
01:52:38,120 --> 01:52:41,439
Speaker 4: as of this recording, They're Missing Migrants Project who tracks

2164
01:52:41,560 --> 01:52:46,639
Speaker 4: migrant depths and those who become missing. Between our quotes,

2165
01:52:47,120 --> 01:52:51,719
Speaker 4: approximately thirty two thousand people are either dead or missing

2166
01:52:51,840 --> 01:52:55,800
Speaker 4: and presumed death in the Mediterranean that I have been

2167
01:52:55,840 --> 01:53:01,080
Speaker 4: confirmed Jesus. The overwhelming majority of these people drowned while

2168
01:53:01,080 --> 01:53:04,640
Speaker 4: attempting the crossing. Two five hundred and eighty two of

2169
01:53:04,720 --> 01:53:08,680
Speaker 4: these cases were registered in twenty twenty four. Last year,

2170
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:13,800
Speaker 4: roughly seventy thousand people attempted the crossing, according to statistics

2171
01:53:13,880 --> 01:53:16,640
Speaker 4: from the European Commission. This may not appear as a

2172
01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:20,639
Speaker 4: lot of deaths compared to the crossings, but this figure

2173
01:53:20,720 --> 01:53:24,320
Speaker 4: does not take into account deaths on the journey towards

2174
01:53:24,400 --> 01:53:27,360
Speaker 4: the crossing. I was not able to verify how the

2175
01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:30,320
Speaker 4: number of seventy thousand was made up, as the EU

2176
01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:33,599
Speaker 4: website I got it from is a collection of data

2177
01:53:33,680 --> 01:53:37,760
Speaker 4: from different countries and agencies who register it. What do

2178
01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:40,960
Speaker 4: you think is safe to assume and let me emphasize

2179
01:53:41,000 --> 01:53:46,640
Speaker 4: assume here is that people captured by Italian multice cypriots

2180
01:53:46,920 --> 01:53:52,280
Speaker 4: or Libyan coastal authorities is included in this number, so

2181
01:53:52,560 --> 01:53:54,639
Speaker 4: that those are people who've attempted the crossing and then

2182
01:53:54,760 --> 01:54:00,280
Speaker 4: are taken back to Libya, possibly undertaking the journey again. Right,

2183
01:54:00,760 --> 01:54:03,719
Speaker 4: Because yeah, I know you've stressed this a few times,

2184
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:06,280
Speaker 4: but a number one does not mean that it's just

2185
01:54:06,360 --> 01:54:08,880
Speaker 4: a single person. It can be the same person who

2186
01:54:09,000 --> 01:54:10,800
Speaker 4: tries to cross multiple times.

2187
01:54:11,600 --> 01:54:15,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, people will repeat crossings. I think we reach

2188
01:54:15,280 --> 01:54:17,160
Speaker 1: a point where the numbers are not and not that

2189
01:54:17,439 --> 01:54:20,519
Speaker 1: every point of these people is a person, right, But like,

2190
01:54:21,080 --> 01:54:23,320
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be any less pissed off if it was

2191
01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:24,760
Speaker 1: fifty thousand, Like.

2192
01:54:25,080 --> 01:54:28,719
Speaker 4: After a certain amount, it just becomes a number because

2193
01:54:29,560 --> 01:54:32,240
Speaker 4: we just can can't imagine how many people that is.

2194
01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:35,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like we shouldn't ever have to conceive a thirty

2195
01:54:35,440 --> 01:54:38,520
Speaker 1: two thousand people drowning, right, that it's not a thing

2196
01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:41,840
Speaker 1: that in the twenty first century that we should allow

2197
01:54:41,920 --> 01:54:45,760
Speaker 1: to happen as a society, and like, yeah, this shit,

2198
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:48,960
Speaker 1: Like you know, I've participated mutilat along the border and

2199
01:54:49,120 --> 01:54:53,440
Speaker 1: very familiar with death at the border, but The scale

2200
01:54:53,480 --> 01:54:56,880
Speaker 1: of this is unfathomable even to someone who's spent a

2201
01:54:56,920 --> 01:54:59,800
Speaker 1: decent amount of time across the migrant trails of the Americas.

2202
01:55:00,720 --> 01:55:03,800
Speaker 1: Two thousand and five hundred two deaths in a year, like.

2203
01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:05,320
Speaker 4: That's a small village.

2204
01:55:05,520 --> 01:55:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

2205
01:55:06,680 --> 01:55:09,520
Speaker 4: On the other yearly basis, yeah, it's a decent size

2206
01:55:09,560 --> 01:55:13,560
Speaker 4: city if you take that thirty two thousand number.

2207
01:55:13,880 --> 01:55:17,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's like a mid sized music festival of

2208
01:55:17,920 --> 01:55:19,240
Speaker 1: people who didn't need to die.

2209
01:55:19,480 --> 01:55:24,000
Speaker 4: Yes. I checked the website called Info Migrants, and they

2210
01:55:24,200 --> 01:55:28,800
Speaker 4: estimate that the Libyan Coast Guard alone has returned again.

2211
01:55:28,880 --> 01:55:33,320
Speaker 4: Air quotes around twenty one thousand migrants are caught during

2212
01:55:33,360 --> 01:55:37,200
Speaker 4: a crossing attempt, So the vast majority of these people

2213
01:55:37,360 --> 01:55:40,760
Speaker 4: end up back in the detention centers we discussed earlier.

2214
01:55:41,400 --> 01:55:44,120
Speaker 4: So that's around one for every three and a half

2215
01:55:44,200 --> 01:55:45,320
Speaker 4: people being captured.

2216
01:55:45,840 --> 01:55:46,480
Speaker 5: Jesus.

2217
01:55:47,360 --> 01:55:50,960
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. There was at some point a video making

2218
01:55:51,000 --> 01:55:54,920
Speaker 4: the rounds, and it was this African woman on a boat,

2219
01:55:55,160 --> 01:55:57,320
Speaker 4: filmed with like a mobile phone, and she was just

2220
01:55:57,680 --> 01:56:00,880
Speaker 4: crying and she's just saying like, Hey, if the Libyan

2221
01:56:00,960 --> 01:56:04,720
Speaker 4: Coast God shows up, I'm jumping overboard. No way am

2222
01:56:04,760 --> 01:56:05,640
Speaker 4: I going back there?

2223
01:56:06,280 --> 01:56:07,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've seen that.

2224
01:56:07,520 --> 01:56:10,280
Speaker 4: That is one of those statements that I will immediately believe.

2225
01:56:10,960 --> 01:56:11,160
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2226
01:56:11,680 --> 01:56:15,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, people have self immolated in those detention centers like

2227
01:56:16,440 --> 01:56:20,320
Speaker 1: said is dead, misery and their desire for the world

2228
01:56:20,400 --> 01:56:22,520
Speaker 1: to see them. I guess I can understand why someone

2229
01:56:22,560 --> 01:56:25,520
Speaker 1: would just rather stop being so.

2230
01:56:26,040 --> 01:56:30,120
Speaker 4: The little calculation I just made that leaves us with

2231
01:56:30,920 --> 01:56:35,640
Speaker 4: forty nine thousand people making the crossing, of which eighty

2232
01:56:35,680 --> 01:56:41,040
Speaker 4: two diets, resulting in forty six thousand, four hundred people

2233
01:56:41,240 --> 01:56:45,400
Speaker 4: entering Europe through the Libyan roots. Again, these are approximations.

2234
01:56:45,880 --> 01:56:50,240
Speaker 4: More exact numbers will never know. Yeah. I tried to

2235
01:56:50,320 --> 01:56:53,840
Speaker 4: track money and expenditures a tiny bit to see how

2236
01:56:53,920 --> 01:56:57,200
Speaker 4: the EU is dealing with this. It's not one of

2237
01:56:57,280 --> 01:56:59,720
Speaker 4: my strong suits. I want to be upfront with that.

2238
01:57:00,560 --> 01:57:03,040
Speaker 4: I was able to find that between twenty twenty and

2239
01:57:03,320 --> 01:57:06,920
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, THEEO granted at least one hundred and

2240
01:57:06,960 --> 01:57:12,560
Speaker 4: five million euro under the European Integrated Border Management Assistance Mission.

2241
01:57:12,960 --> 01:57:15,160
Speaker 4: This is money that is directly going to Libya for

2242
01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:20,080
Speaker 4: assistance in managing our border. This number does not include

2243
01:57:20,120 --> 01:57:24,760
Speaker 4: money directly or indirectly given to Libya from individual member

2244
01:57:24,840 --> 01:57:29,240
Speaker 4: states or from the budget of the Euse Border Agency FRONTACS.

2245
01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:34,440
Speaker 4: The latter has seen an absolute massive increase in their budgets. Yeah,

2246
01:57:34,880 --> 01:57:38,320
Speaker 4: from around two hundred and fifty billion in twenty sixteen

2247
01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:43,240
Speaker 4: to over eight hundred and forty billion in twenty twenty three. God.

2248
01:57:44,040 --> 01:57:45,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a vast increase.

2249
01:57:46,120 --> 01:57:50,960
Speaker 4: Yes. And what's relatively recently been happening is that rather

2250
01:57:51,080 --> 01:57:54,640
Speaker 4: than have their own vessels in the sea, they are

2251
01:57:55,760 --> 01:57:58,440
Speaker 4: using air reconnaissance in the form of drones or other

2252
01:57:59,000 --> 01:58:03,200
Speaker 4: airborne vehicles spot spot boat boats or thingies with migrants,

2253
01:58:03,680 --> 01:58:06,240
Speaker 4: and then they give that information to the Libyan Coast

2254
01:58:06,280 --> 01:58:09,920
Speaker 4: Guard they can pick them up right. And this is

2255
01:58:09,960 --> 01:58:14,320
Speaker 4: where the eu IS, I would say, directly complicit in

2256
01:58:14,560 --> 01:58:17,480
Speaker 4: like the abuse that that that's happening in Libya.

2257
01:58:17,880 --> 01:58:20,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

2258
01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:23,800
Speaker 4: Because we know what it is likely to certainly going

2259
01:58:23,840 --> 01:58:25,600
Speaker 4: to happen to the people that are picked up by

2260
01:58:25,640 --> 01:58:26,600
Speaker 4: the Libyan Coast Guard.

2261
01:58:27,480 --> 01:58:27,720
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2262
01:58:28,200 --> 01:58:31,200
Speaker 1: And if you're saying, like Helebin coasted ALcom here pick

2263
01:58:31,240 --> 01:58:33,720
Speaker 1: up these people, you know what's going to happen to

2264
01:58:33,880 --> 01:58:37,680
Speaker 1: those people. Again, it's not good. And they keep doing

2265
01:58:37,720 --> 01:58:40,800
Speaker 1: it despite it being more than a decade of evidence

2266
01:58:41,000 --> 01:58:42,919
Speaker 1: at this point abusive migrants.

2267
01:58:43,520 --> 01:58:46,680
Speaker 4: Italy, in particular, as the country receives a lot of

2268
01:58:46,880 --> 01:58:50,920
Speaker 4: migrants from Mediterranean crossings, is keen on helping Libya in

2269
01:58:51,000 --> 01:58:55,040
Speaker 4: terms of training, material and funding. Additional agreements between the

2270
01:58:55,040 --> 01:58:58,800
Speaker 4: two countries shut another uncomfortable light on the dynamic. There

2271
01:58:58,960 --> 01:59:03,200
Speaker 4: was first the EU Libya slash Italy Libya Memorandum of

2272
01:59:03,360 --> 01:59:09,600
Speaker 4: Understanding signed in twenty seventeen. It saw an enhanced enhancement

2273
01:59:09,680 --> 01:59:13,280
Speaker 4: of military insecurity related to trying to prevent migrants from

2274
01:59:13,880 --> 01:59:18,120
Speaker 4: making a crossing advertently or inadvertently trying to make Libya

2275
01:59:18,160 --> 01:59:22,400
Speaker 4: their final stop and trap them there under the conditions

2276
01:59:22,440 --> 01:59:26,160
Speaker 4: that we just discussed. That agreement is a continuation of

2277
01:59:26,240 --> 01:59:30,560
Speaker 4: the Treaty on Friendship, Partnership and Corporation that was signed

2278
01:59:30,600 --> 01:59:34,320
Speaker 4: by Libya and Italy back in twenty eighth which described

2279
01:59:34,320 --> 01:59:39,440
Speaker 4: the corporation in detail VISV combating illegal migration from Libya

2280
01:59:39,560 --> 01:59:42,840
Speaker 4: to the EU. We also have the Multi Declaration from

2281
01:59:42,960 --> 01:59:48,720
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, which only strengthened unbacked governmental organs within the EU,

2282
01:59:49,360 --> 01:59:53,560
Speaker 4: as well as a commitment to further assist Libya in training,

2283
01:59:54,120 --> 01:59:57,400
Speaker 4: in providing funding and technical assistance. Those are the main

2284
01:59:57,440 --> 02:00:02,360
Speaker 4: purposes of disagreements to prevent people from passing the prestigious

2285
02:00:02,440 --> 02:00:06,640
Speaker 4: gates of Fortress Europe, because politically, we'd rather add them

2286
02:00:06,680 --> 02:00:09,920
Speaker 4: to the mortar with which those walls are built Jesus.

2287
02:00:10,240 --> 02:00:14,760
Speaker 4: And it is these conditions that Washington ghouls thought would

2288
02:00:14,760 --> 02:00:17,400
Speaker 4: be a suitable place to send migrants to who do

2289
02:00:17,520 --> 02:00:21,880
Speaker 4: not speak the language, know the people have legal representation

2290
02:00:22,480 --> 02:00:25,840
Speaker 4: or assumably even have the money to do anything. We've

2291
02:00:25,880 --> 02:00:28,040
Speaker 4: barely spoken of the civil war that is still going

2292
02:00:28,120 --> 02:00:31,280
Speaker 4: on there, yeah, with like fighting in the capital of

2293
02:00:31,320 --> 02:00:36,000
Speaker 4: Troopoli happened like two weeks ago. We haven't spoken about

2294
02:00:36,120 --> 02:00:39,880
Speaker 4: any legal or law related issues that these people would

2295
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:43,680
Speaker 4: invariably run into were they to be deported to Libya.

2296
02:00:44,160 --> 02:00:48,560
Speaker 4: It's the umpteen for example of colonialism, militarism from states,

2297
02:00:48,960 --> 02:00:52,400
Speaker 4: war wandering, and the transfer of problems to another place

2298
02:00:52,720 --> 02:00:57,120
Speaker 4: or to another generation. Very much like climate change, actions

2299
02:00:57,200 --> 02:01:00,000
Speaker 4: such as these will have immense direct and ripple effect

2300
02:01:00,280 --> 02:01:04,000
Speaker 4: that our children, anchorant children will learn the consequences of.

2301
02:01:05,160 --> 02:01:09,400
Speaker 4: And the last bit I've added because let's hope that

2302
02:01:09,760 --> 02:01:12,920
Speaker 4: no one is going to be sent Olivia from the States,

2303
02:01:13,840 --> 02:01:17,120
Speaker 4: but I can very much imagine that those people will

2304
02:01:17,960 --> 02:01:21,040
Speaker 4: face the same horrors that they will have to create

2305
02:01:21,080 --> 02:01:25,480
Speaker 4: their own little communities just to be able to get by. Yeah,

2306
02:01:25,960 --> 02:01:30,760
Speaker 4: I can imagine some people might might run into ISIS

2307
02:01:30,840 --> 02:01:34,960
Speaker 4: over there and become radicalized. We could also get like

2308
02:01:35,200 --> 02:01:39,240
Speaker 4: small pockets of people who just write a survived but

2309
02:01:39,320 --> 02:01:42,160
Speaker 4: are still stuck there and grow resentment. There is no

2310
02:01:42,360 --> 02:01:46,240
Speaker 4: real way to estimate what the consequences are going to

2311
02:01:46,360 --> 02:01:50,640
Speaker 4: be of deporting people there other than that like the

2312
02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:53,880
Speaker 4: cruelty is happening that Washington grules are aiming for.

2313
02:01:54,520 --> 02:01:55,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

2314
02:01:55,240 --> 02:01:57,040
Speaker 1: I think that the point is to hurt these people

2315
02:01:57,040 --> 02:01:59,400
Speaker 1: as much as possible in the moment, and then there

2316
02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:02,360
Speaker 1: isn't really to a long term thought process beyond that.

2317
02:02:02,640 --> 02:02:06,200
Speaker 1: Like I guess I would like to say that people

2318
02:02:06,320 --> 02:02:08,720
Speaker 1: were enraged at the thought of the United States sending

2319
02:02:08,760 --> 02:02:10,840
Speaker 1: migrants to Libya, and they should be. I'm glad that

2320
02:02:10,960 --> 02:02:13,720
Speaker 1: they were, but they should also be in rage at

2321
02:02:13,800 --> 02:02:19,240
Speaker 1: the reality of the European Union doing it every single day. Yes,

2322
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:23,560
Speaker 1: way more than twelve people, and like you should care

2323
02:02:23,640 --> 02:02:26,520
Speaker 1: about that too, especially if you're in Europe, like you know,

2324
02:02:26,600 --> 02:02:30,440
Speaker 1: obviously I am a person from Europe. I think it's easy,

2325
02:02:31,160 --> 02:02:33,760
Speaker 1: like for people to get this kind of smug social

2326
02:02:33,880 --> 02:02:36,520
Speaker 1: democracy kind of like, oh, look at the Americans, they're

2327
02:02:36,520 --> 02:02:38,760
Speaker 1: so fucked up. Not saying things a un fucked up

2328
02:02:38,800 --> 02:02:41,040
Speaker 1: here they are, but like the EU is doing some

2329
02:02:41,320 --> 02:02:45,320
Speaker 1: fucked up shit to migrants, and like people in Europe

2330
02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:46,640
Speaker 1: should be in the streets about that too.

2331
02:02:46,920 --> 02:02:50,400
Speaker 4: Definitely, this is just the biggest of all the issues.

2332
02:02:50,480 --> 02:02:54,360
Speaker 4: But there's also abuses and human rights violations happening in

2333
02:02:54,400 --> 02:02:57,960
Speaker 4: the Balkans for the people who take that crossing. There's

2334
02:02:58,240 --> 02:03:01,800
Speaker 4: people who try to cross from a rock quote to Spain. Yeah,

2335
02:03:02,040 --> 02:03:06,320
Speaker 4: who also encounter again, not as bad as the things

2336
02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:08,880
Speaker 4: we just talked about, but by no means good.

2337
02:03:09,520 --> 02:03:10,960
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely shouldn't be happening.

2338
02:03:11,400 --> 02:03:13,480
Speaker 4: I don't even want to use words like good or

2339
02:03:13,560 --> 02:03:17,200
Speaker 4: bad because like they tend to lose all meaning. Yeah,

2340
02:03:17,560 --> 02:03:21,480
Speaker 4: like less bad doesn't necessarily mean good. Yeah, that doesn't,

2341
02:03:21,640 --> 02:03:24,480
Speaker 4: it means less worse. And yeah, there are there are

2342
02:03:24,560 --> 02:03:27,560
Speaker 4: places to make that crossing that are less worse than Libya.

2343
02:03:27,680 --> 02:03:31,680
Speaker 3: But still, yeah, that doesn't mean any of it is desirable, yeah,

2344
02:03:32,320 --> 02:03:35,040
Speaker 3: or like that we should accept any of it. No, No,

2345
02:03:35,680 --> 02:03:37,560
Speaker 3: people should be fucking mad about all of this.

2346
02:03:37,960 --> 02:03:40,760
Speaker 4: And I also I would like to have to go

2347
02:03:40,880 --> 02:03:42,640
Speaker 4: back a little bit about what you said about like

2348
02:03:43,200 --> 02:03:47,600
Speaker 4: this buck European the social democracy. Yeah, like that's definitely

2349
02:03:47,640 --> 02:03:52,680
Speaker 4: an attitude that's not uncommon among Europeans. But then again,

2350
02:03:52,880 --> 02:03:57,920
Speaker 4: we very often fail to look into our own backyards. Yeah.

2351
02:03:58,280 --> 02:04:02,800
Speaker 4: And also Europe tends to be politically a few years

2352
02:04:02,880 --> 02:04:05,760
Speaker 4: behind the US. But we've also seen a rise in

2353
02:04:06,240 --> 02:04:13,600
Speaker 4: autocratic regimes like Victor Orbon. Yeah, massive example, Maloney and

2354
02:04:13,760 --> 02:04:18,840
Speaker 4: Italy is another one. But also in my own country

2355
02:04:18,920 --> 02:04:22,280
Speaker 4: of the Netherlands, they try to bypass parliament in order

2356
02:04:22,400 --> 02:04:26,040
Speaker 4: to make an emergency law to make sure that migrants

2357
02:04:26,160 --> 02:04:29,560
Speaker 4: wouldn't enter the Netherlands, And as we speak, they're threatening

2358
02:04:29,680 --> 02:04:35,720
Speaker 4: to stop the government formation if no stricter measures against

2359
02:04:35,760 --> 02:04:36,880
Speaker 4: migrants are being taken.

2360
02:04:37,320 --> 02:04:37,560
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2361
02:04:38,040 --> 02:04:43,120
Speaker 4: So it's these little seeds of like autocracy that are

2362
02:04:43,440 --> 02:04:48,360
Speaker 4: almost more worrying because it's these little steps that happen

2363
02:04:48,640 --> 02:04:52,880
Speaker 4: and before you know it, things are getting worse quick Yeah.

2364
02:04:53,320 --> 02:04:56,080
Speaker 1: Like, anyone who pays attention to the US can see

2365
02:04:56,200 --> 02:05:00,440
Speaker 1: that the vehicle on which fascism was delivered to us

2366
02:05:01,360 --> 02:05:03,400
Speaker 1: is being delivered to us. A better way of saying

2367
02:05:03,440 --> 02:05:09,440
Speaker 1: it is anti micro sentiment, right, Like that is how

2368
02:05:10,080 --> 02:05:13,440
Speaker 1: this country built the toolkit that is now being used.

2369
02:05:14,160 --> 02:05:16,840
Speaker 1: And you know, the rest of the world should pay

2370
02:05:16,840 --> 02:05:18,960
Speaker 1: attention to that, I hope. Yeah, we should see it

2371
02:05:19,000 --> 02:05:22,960
Speaker 1: as a warning sign, not as a manual. Yeah, that's

2372
02:05:23,640 --> 02:05:26,440
Speaker 1: a good weapon it Yeah, unfortunately it's being used as

2373
02:05:26,480 --> 02:05:31,720
Speaker 1: a manual by certain European governments. Yeah, so thank you

2374
02:05:31,840 --> 02:05:36,480
Speaker 1: for sharing that traumatic piece, for reporting that. I think

2375
02:05:36,520 --> 02:05:37,520
Speaker 1: that's that's rough.

2376
02:05:38,640 --> 02:05:40,560
Speaker 4: I would say you're welcome if it was. It's a

2377
02:05:40,760 --> 02:05:45,160
Speaker 4: fucking grim to say that at the end of all that. Yeah. No,

2378
02:05:45,560 --> 02:05:48,240
Speaker 4: I'm happy that I read a lot and put it together.

2379
02:05:48,680 --> 02:05:50,480
Speaker 4: I'm also going to have to find a puppy and

2380
02:05:50,880 --> 02:05:54,280
Speaker 4: cuddle the puppy for a few hours. Yeah.

2381
02:05:54,640 --> 02:05:59,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's all I have for now. Great, Yeah,

2382
02:05:59,440 --> 02:06:01,080
Speaker 1: that's all I got to Thank you very much.

2383
02:06:23,960 --> 02:06:27,880
Speaker 4: I ain't coming. That was a big one.

2384
02:06:31,440 --> 02:06:34,240
Speaker 2: Welcome back to It could Happen Here a podcast that

2385
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:39,000
Speaker 2: was originally about the theoretical possibility of mass civil conflict

2386
02:06:39,240 --> 02:06:43,800
Speaker 2: and coming militarized authoritarian regime and is now about the

2387
02:06:43,920 --> 02:06:48,440
Speaker 2: reality of that happening to different communities at different speeds

2388
02:06:48,520 --> 02:06:52,200
Speaker 2: all around the country, and right now Los Angeles is

2389
02:06:52,520 --> 02:06:53,320
Speaker 2: where we're focused.

2390
02:06:53,360 --> 02:06:53,400
Speaker 5: On.

2391
02:06:53,840 --> 02:06:56,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, as you've probably heard from the news or from

2392
02:06:56,280 --> 02:06:59,960
Speaker 2: the episode we did earlier this week, Los Angeles, Californi

2393
02:07:00,400 --> 02:07:04,000
Speaker 2: has been in a state of what the president declared insurrection,

2394
02:07:04,320 --> 02:07:08,000
Speaker 2: where most people would declare fairly small protests based on

2395
02:07:08,120 --> 02:07:10,240
Speaker 2: the overall size of the city, topping out at maybe

2396
02:07:10,400 --> 02:07:13,880
Speaker 2: four to six thousand people on Sunday, and the President

2397
02:07:14,000 --> 02:07:16,440
Speaker 2: is called a National Guard, He's called in the Marines,

2398
02:07:16,560 --> 02:07:19,160
Speaker 2: and we called in James Stout to head up to

2399
02:07:19,320 --> 02:07:21,440
Speaker 2: Los Angeles and look at the scene.

2400
02:07:21,600 --> 02:07:26,640
Speaker 1: James, that's right, Yeah, the alternative to the United States

2401
02:07:26,720 --> 02:07:29,400
Speaker 1: Marine Corps. Yeah, so I've just got back from LA

2402
02:07:29,640 --> 02:07:34,040
Speaker 1: I was there on Monday night, obviously covering the protests.

2403
02:07:34,360 --> 02:07:37,200
Speaker 1: I got there mid morning, I guess. But at that

2404
02:07:37,280 --> 02:07:41,040
Speaker 1: point the SEIU were having a rally. Yeah. The rally

2405
02:07:41,200 --> 02:07:43,720
Speaker 1: was for the release of David Huerta, who was released

2406
02:07:44,440 --> 02:07:47,320
Speaker 1: on bail. I believe after that, not while the rally

2407
02:07:47,440 --> 02:07:52,160
Speaker 1: was going on, and from there, like I basically sort

2408
02:07:52,200 --> 02:07:55,160
Speaker 1: of started walking around downtown LA. I guess there was

2409
02:07:55,240 --> 02:07:57,720
Speaker 1: this really weird kind of phenomenon where you'd like go

2410
02:07:57,960 --> 02:08:01,360
Speaker 1: down to a place and you'd see one hundred people

2411
02:08:01,960 --> 02:08:09,160
Speaker 1: shouting cops, Feds, troops or some combination of the three. Right,

2412
02:08:09,200 --> 02:08:12,520
Speaker 1: pretty often around the Federal building, it's weird. At the

2413
02:08:12,720 --> 02:08:15,520
Speaker 1: front entrance, like where the entrance was, you had like

2414
02:08:15,800 --> 02:08:19,000
Speaker 1: a initial presence of the front line with National Guard

2415
02:08:19,760 --> 02:08:23,840
Speaker 1: with maybe it looked like it was maybe like NCOs

2416
02:08:23,960 --> 02:08:28,560
Speaker 1: or something. You had loaded service weapons, and then other

2417
02:08:29,520 --> 02:08:32,600
Speaker 1: soldiers had shields in it and like old school wooden

2418
02:08:32,720 --> 02:08:35,600
Speaker 1: button sticks, right, just just a long long ass stick.

2419
02:08:35,720 --> 02:08:39,200
Speaker 1: Basically around the other side you had LAPD at the

2420
02:08:39,240 --> 02:08:43,360
Speaker 1: front and National Guard behind them, and then across the

2421
02:08:43,400 --> 02:08:46,800
Speaker 1: street from that you had California Highway Patrol and their

2422
02:08:46,920 --> 02:08:49,360
Speaker 1: riot squad. And then in another location I think it

2423
02:08:49,400 --> 02:08:51,440
Speaker 1: was at City Hall, you had l a Sheriff's so

2424
02:08:51,680 --> 02:08:56,040
Speaker 1: like literally every agency that can claim any jurisdiction. Right,

2425
02:08:56,080 --> 02:09:00,720
Speaker 1: there was also a DHSRPF FPS like to literally every

2426
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:04,440
Speaker 1: every federal and local agency that could send cops sent cops.

2427
02:09:05,040 --> 02:09:06,720
Speaker 5: It wouldn't surprise.

2428
02:09:06,440 --> 02:09:08,720
Speaker 1: Me to hear that there were more than a thousand cops,

2429
02:09:08,880 --> 02:09:11,520
Speaker 1: like maybe it was hundreds, But it was hard to

2430
02:09:11,520 --> 02:09:14,480
Speaker 1: get a handle on because every street you went down,

2431
02:09:14,520 --> 02:09:16,960
Speaker 1: every corner you turned, you ran into another wall of cops.

2432
02:09:17,080 --> 02:09:21,000
Speaker 1: Right with ten or fifteen cars behind them. They were

2433
02:09:21,040 --> 02:09:23,840
Speaker 1: constantly driving around until you know, I stayed until about

2434
02:09:23,840 --> 02:09:26,840
Speaker 1: two in the morning, and it's protest obviously, like as

2435
02:09:26,880 --> 02:09:29,600
Speaker 1: I'll explain later, kind of escalated, I guess, and as

2436
02:09:29,640 --> 02:09:33,520
Speaker 1: police violence escalated. In the evening, you'd see these convoys

2437
02:09:33,560 --> 02:09:37,040
Speaker 1: of cop cars just hauling ass through downtown periodically every

2438
02:09:37,120 --> 02:09:40,760
Speaker 1: hour or so, like running lights and sirens, like a

2439
02:09:40,880 --> 02:09:44,600
Speaker 1: dozen or so cop cars just booking it through downtown. Yeah,

2440
02:09:44,840 --> 02:09:46,160
Speaker 1: so it's very hard to get a sense of like

2441
02:09:46,480 --> 02:09:48,560
Speaker 1: who they are, what they were doing. They closed all

2442
02:09:48,640 --> 02:09:52,080
Speaker 1: the freeway entrances and exits, which like I took the

2443
02:09:53,120 --> 02:09:55,400
Speaker 1: I took the train up trying to be a mass

2444
02:09:55,480 --> 02:09:57,800
Speaker 1: transit enjoyer, and it made it a fucking nightmare to

2445
02:09:57,840 --> 02:10:02,360
Speaker 1: get anywhere, right, Yeah, that makes sense, Like anyone who

2446
02:10:02,440 --> 02:10:05,400
Speaker 1: lives or works in downtown LA will have experienced this already,

2447
02:10:05,480 --> 02:10:08,800
Speaker 1: but like it. And then throughout the fuck in the evening, right,

2448
02:10:08,920 --> 02:10:11,120
Speaker 1: you've got people coming up to you being like, hey,

2449
02:10:11,520 --> 02:10:14,360
Speaker 1: I live in little Tokyo. I can't get back because

2450
02:10:14,360 --> 02:10:16,640
Speaker 1: there's a wall of cops and they keep throwing tear gas.

2451
02:10:16,680 --> 02:10:20,360
Speaker 1: Relates any suggestions, Yeah, I can't get home. Yeah, Like

2452
02:10:20,840 --> 02:10:23,760
Speaker 1: and unfortunately, like you know, not much we can suggest.

2453
02:10:24,400 --> 02:10:27,000
Speaker 1: And then on top of that, because it's southern California,

2454
02:10:27,520 --> 02:10:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, the United States, really people who can't afford

2455
02:10:30,400 --> 02:10:32,320
Speaker 1: a place to live or sleeping on the street, and

2456
02:10:33,200 --> 02:10:36,880
Speaker 1: they're getting tas too, and they're getting flashbag too. I

2457
02:10:36,920 --> 02:10:40,400
Speaker 1: remember like we were up by LAPDHQ at one point

2458
02:10:40,640 --> 02:10:43,880
Speaker 1: and I seen this guy sleeping on a bench and

2459
02:10:43,960 --> 02:10:46,200
Speaker 1: the cops were pushing up the street and I was

2460
02:10:46,360 --> 02:10:48,080
Speaker 1: just trying to sort of take a position where I

2461
02:10:48,080 --> 02:10:49,880
Speaker 1: could take a photograph, you know, when I saw him sleeping,

2462
02:10:49,920 --> 02:10:51,800
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, should I wait, wake this guy?

2463
02:10:51,920 --> 02:10:53,160
Speaker 1: You know, I don't want him to get a nasty

2464
02:10:53,200 --> 02:10:56,640
Speaker 1: surprise and wake up to a wall of robocops. And

2465
02:10:56,720 --> 02:10:59,480
Speaker 1: at that point the cops opened up with whatever they

2466
02:10:59,480 --> 02:11:02,880
Speaker 1: were shooting that time, forty milimeter, thirty seven milimeter. Yeah.

2467
02:11:02,960 --> 02:11:04,520
Speaker 2: Most of what I've hearded is like a mix of

2468
02:11:04,520 --> 02:11:08,080
Speaker 2: pepper balls and yeah forty milimeter yeah, yeah, grenades and

2469
02:11:08,520 --> 02:11:09,240
Speaker 2: rubber rounds.

2470
02:11:09,560 --> 02:11:13,080
Speaker 1: Some foam, Yeah, some foam. I found some Safari Land

2471
02:11:13,160 --> 02:11:16,760
Speaker 1: thirty seven milimeter foam casings on the ground. Oh nice. Yeah,

2472
02:11:17,160 --> 02:11:20,440
Speaker 1: And yeah, mostly what it was, you know, LPD have

2473
02:11:20,560 --> 02:11:23,520
Speaker 1: those green forty milimeters launchers with the eotex on top,

2474
02:11:23,560 --> 02:11:26,040
Speaker 1: and that was what yeah, looks down the barrel of

2475
02:11:26,120 --> 02:11:29,600
Speaker 1: a few times. And so if the evening went on right,

2476
02:11:29,680 --> 02:11:32,720
Speaker 1: you'd get larger groups and they become like, you know,

2477
02:11:33,120 --> 02:11:36,000
Speaker 1: more vocal, I guess in their protesting. At one point,

2478
02:11:36,040 --> 02:11:39,800
Speaker 1: people having like a street dance party. Occasionally people would

2479
02:11:39,800 --> 02:11:42,800
Speaker 1: would throw a firework or set off a firework, and

2480
02:11:42,920 --> 02:11:47,680
Speaker 1: then sporadically and like without really any clear kind of signal,

2481
02:11:48,200 --> 02:11:50,800
Speaker 1: at some point clearly the whole area was declared a

2482
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:53,400
Speaker 1: lawful assembly. I'm guessing it's very hard to actually hear

2483
02:11:53,640 --> 02:11:55,520
Speaker 1: when they're saying stuff on the l rad unless it's

2484
02:11:55,600 --> 02:11:59,360
Speaker 1: directly like pointed at you. But I heard some signed

2485
02:11:59,400 --> 02:12:01,360
Speaker 1: kind of ol rat had an awful as MBI announcement

2486
02:12:01,400 --> 02:12:05,440
Speaker 1: at some point. And Yeah, Periodically you'd come around a

2487
02:12:05,440 --> 02:12:07,280
Speaker 1: three corner and be like one hundred hundred and fifty

2488
02:12:07,320 --> 02:12:11,280
Speaker 1: two hundred people protesting right, and then the cops would

2489
02:12:11,640 --> 02:12:14,480
Speaker 1: toss a flashbang or a tear gas, loose off a

2490
02:12:14,560 --> 02:12:19,240
Speaker 1: few rounds, push thirty yards and then stop and then

2491
02:12:20,040 --> 02:12:23,960
Speaker 1: do that again ten fifteen, twenty thirty minutes later, and

2492
02:12:24,040 --> 02:12:25,800
Speaker 1: they keep doing that, and then they push people back

2493
02:12:25,880 --> 02:12:29,640
Speaker 1: past these various buildings which had cops like stationed in place,

2494
02:12:29,840 --> 02:12:32,400
Speaker 1: like on the parapet of the building or on the

2495
02:12:32,560 --> 02:12:35,640
Speaker 1: courtyard outside, who would then also fire at them. So

2496
02:12:35,880 --> 02:12:38,480
Speaker 1: the protest never really got a chance to centralize. People

2497
02:12:38,520 --> 02:12:40,680
Speaker 1: didn't really get a chance to centralize in one place.

2498
02:12:41,000 --> 02:12:44,040
Speaker 1: And you know, like to have a sense of how

2499
02:12:44,120 --> 02:12:47,400
Speaker 1: many numbers of protesters there were was hard because every

2500
02:12:47,480 --> 02:12:49,680
Speaker 1: torny you turned, there were more people and there were

2501
02:12:49,760 --> 02:12:53,640
Speaker 1: more cops. So like it was a bit broken apart.

2502
02:12:53,720 --> 02:12:56,080
Speaker 1: And I think that was the goal of the policing

2503
02:12:56,120 --> 02:12:59,120
Speaker 1: operation right to flood the city, was cops to shut

2504
02:12:59,160 --> 02:13:01,160
Speaker 1: it all down, to make get hard to get there, yep,

2505
02:13:01,440 --> 02:13:02,520
Speaker 1: make it hard to gather there.

2506
02:13:02,800 --> 02:13:05,520
Speaker 2: I still don't get the sense. And this is what

2507
02:13:05,600 --> 02:13:07,520
Speaker 2: it sounds like from what you've said that most of

2508
02:13:07,640 --> 02:13:10,680
Speaker 2: what is being done effectively is not the National Guard

2509
02:13:10,720 --> 02:13:12,000
Speaker 2: and certainly not the Marines.

2510
02:13:12,760 --> 02:13:14,720
Speaker 1: It's the federal and local police.

2511
02:13:15,240 --> 02:13:18,800
Speaker 2: And their game plan here is if they assuming things

2512
02:13:18,920 --> 02:13:22,200
Speaker 2: calmed out in Los Angeles, which is probably the safe

2513
02:13:22,240 --> 02:13:25,520
Speaker 2: bet right now, every time they get over a certain

2514
02:13:25,560 --> 02:13:28,120
Speaker 2: threshold of protesters a couple of hundred one thousand or

2515
02:13:28,160 --> 02:13:31,000
Speaker 2: so in a city, you know, do the same thing, right,

2516
02:13:31,320 --> 02:13:34,920
Speaker 2: Like deploy the military national or federalized the national Guard,

2517
02:13:35,000 --> 02:13:37,920
Speaker 2: get them out there, right, like that's that's where they're headed.

2518
02:13:38,360 --> 02:13:41,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, Like I don't know if LA

2519
02:13:41,360 --> 02:13:43,440
Speaker 1: will back down, to be clear, Like LA's a city

2520
02:13:43,560 --> 02:13:46,040
Speaker 1: of what like like four million people.

2521
02:13:46,040 --> 02:13:49,520
Speaker 2: And eighteen nineteen million in the greater Los Angeles metro area.

2522
02:13:49,800 --> 02:13:54,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's uh, I know right, Like I had

2523
02:13:54,480 --> 02:13:56,520
Speaker 1: these I had good conversations with a lot of people

2524
02:13:56,520 --> 02:13:58,640
Speaker 1: who are out there protesting. Want to go you to

2525
02:13:58,680 --> 02:14:00,880
Speaker 1: ad Like I said, we were really well were by everyone,

2526
02:14:00,920 --> 02:14:03,320
Speaker 1: which was nice. Like it wasn't the same crowd as

2527
02:14:03,360 --> 02:14:05,280
Speaker 1: folks I've seen in twenty twenty, Like no one was

2528
02:14:05,320 --> 02:14:07,680
Speaker 1: in black block, right of course, and then it was

2529
02:14:07,880 --> 02:14:10,840
Speaker 1: very young people and like a number of them approached

2530
02:14:11,000 --> 02:14:12,920
Speaker 1: I was for a time, I was with Charles McBride

2531
02:14:13,280 --> 02:14:16,320
Speaker 1: and like some other oh yeah yeah, colleagues and friends

2532
02:14:16,400 --> 02:14:18,640
Speaker 1: like people I've known for years. Right, we cover the

2533
02:14:18,680 --> 02:14:20,840
Speaker 1: same kind of shit, And people would come up to

2534
02:14:20,960 --> 02:14:22,600
Speaker 1: us and just be like, hey, it's good that you

2535
02:14:22,640 --> 02:14:24,760
Speaker 1: guys are here, thank you for staying here. After we

2536
02:14:24,840 --> 02:14:27,600
Speaker 1: got fucking tear guests, Like people should understand that was

2537
02:14:27,680 --> 02:14:31,120
Speaker 1: happening like the unprompted people would would come and say

2538
02:14:31,160 --> 02:14:34,280
Speaker 1: thank you, which was nice, you know, and like we

2539
02:14:34,360 --> 02:14:37,840
Speaker 1: didn't really face any any hostility for being there. But

2540
02:14:38,040 --> 02:14:39,680
Speaker 1: people when I spoke to them, like there was a

2541
02:14:39,760 --> 02:14:41,440
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people I spoke to were

2542
02:14:41,560 --> 02:14:44,800
Speaker 1: very young, and they would say that they were the

2543
02:14:44,920 --> 02:14:48,880
Speaker 1: citizen kid of parents who either were you know, like

2544
02:14:49,040 --> 02:14:52,640
Speaker 1: permanent residents or visa holders or you know, they're very

2545
02:14:52,840 --> 02:14:55,320
Speaker 1: I'm sure some of them had undocumented parents. I can't

2546
02:14:55,320 --> 02:14:57,240
Speaker 1: remember speaking to anyone who said that, but I'm sure

2547
02:14:57,280 --> 02:14:59,400
Speaker 1: that given the numbers of people and the number of

2548
02:14:59,480 --> 02:15:01,240
Speaker 1: times I heard like, I'm the citizen child, so I

2549
02:15:01,280 --> 02:15:04,880
Speaker 1: should be here showing up for my family and my community. Right, Yeah,

2550
02:15:04,920 --> 02:15:07,960
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, And like it's gonna be hard

2551
02:15:08,000 --> 02:15:11,720
Speaker 1: to back those people down because they were fucking angry. Yeah,

2552
02:15:12,080 --> 02:15:15,400
Speaker 1: a real palpable sense of like fuck you would look

2553
02:15:15,640 --> 02:15:20,400
Speaker 1: very present throughout. People were also afraid, Like it's not

2554
02:15:20,520 --> 02:15:23,520
Speaker 1: people who are necessarily used to this, right, And like

2555
02:15:23,640 --> 02:15:28,960
Speaker 1: you said, the police response is an overwhelming use of violence, right, indiscriminately.

2556
02:15:28,240 --> 02:15:30,440
Speaker 2: Shooting it people from what what's the what's the furthest

2557
02:15:30,480 --> 02:15:32,520
Speaker 2: distance you were seeing them fire it people from.

2558
02:15:33,000 --> 02:15:37,240
Speaker 1: I mean I probably saw them taking one hundred meter shots,

2559
02:15:37,280 --> 02:15:38,120
Speaker 1: I'm guessing.

2560
02:15:38,280 --> 02:15:40,440
Speaker 5: Which is very long range for this sort of stuff.

2561
02:15:40,720 --> 02:15:42,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so at one point when we've got

2562
02:15:42,800 --> 02:15:45,840
Speaker 1: pushed back past the LAPDHQ there, they had the whole

2563
02:15:46,120 --> 02:15:48,000
Speaker 1: sort of front face of it, and they led off

2564
02:15:48,160 --> 02:15:51,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of shots towards myself and some others. I

2565
02:15:51,480 --> 02:15:54,600
Speaker 1: just sort of got down behind some cover there and

2566
02:15:54,680 --> 02:15:56,920
Speaker 1: started filming. And then there was a group of young

2567
02:15:57,000 --> 02:15:59,280
Speaker 1: people who were in one of those kind of classic

2568
02:15:59,480 --> 02:16:03,440
Speaker 1: LA three corner open quad more things. Yeah. So they're

2569
02:16:03,480 --> 02:16:07,000
Speaker 1: basically in a U shaped container right with only one

2570
02:16:07,040 --> 02:16:11,680
Speaker 1: way in and one way out, and right there's glass

2571
02:16:12,080 --> 02:16:14,160
Speaker 1: stores around it like that, you know, there's all the

2572
02:16:14,200 --> 02:16:18,200
Speaker 1: shopping bits people go shopping, and there's pillars in the middle,

2573
02:16:18,800 --> 02:16:21,960
Speaker 1: and the cops are just unloading from a distance of

2574
02:16:22,000 --> 02:16:25,720
Speaker 1: maybe one hundred meters from labd HQ. I think into

2575
02:16:26,480 --> 02:16:28,840
Speaker 1: these people who are effectively like in a like fish

2576
02:16:28,880 --> 02:16:31,160
Speaker 1: in a barrel right there, They're in a container where

2577
02:16:31,160 --> 02:16:32,680
Speaker 1: they is the only way out is the direction the

2578
02:16:32,720 --> 02:16:35,560
Speaker 1: cops are shooting from. There was a small outlet on

2579
02:16:35,600 --> 02:16:38,040
Speaker 1: the other side, which eventually they were able to take.

2580
02:16:38,160 --> 02:16:40,080
Speaker 1: That meant they had to cross across like a four

2581
02:16:40,160 --> 02:16:43,680
Speaker 1: lane road while being shot at by the cops, and

2582
02:16:44,120 --> 02:16:46,160
Speaker 1: the cops just kept shooting at them there, like it

2583
02:16:46,240 --> 02:16:48,360
Speaker 1: wasn't like they shot a couple of times that they

2584
02:16:48,480 --> 02:16:52,959
Speaker 1: clearly shot, reloaded, shot, reloaded, And I was filming from

2585
02:16:52,959 --> 02:16:57,080
Speaker 1: the other side, but you could see these projectiles whacking

2586
02:16:57,160 --> 02:17:00,160
Speaker 1: out like reinforced glass in the front of these business

2587
02:17:00,360 --> 02:17:03,160
Speaker 1: at head height, not breaking the glass and falling on

2588
02:17:03,240 --> 02:17:06,400
Speaker 1: the ground, punching a hole straight through. You know, they

2589
02:17:06,480 --> 02:17:09,720
Speaker 1: get coming with serious force even at that distance. And

2590
02:17:09,920 --> 02:17:12,560
Speaker 1: like those people weren't presenting a throat twenty one right,

2591
02:17:12,680 --> 02:17:15,000
Speaker 1: like like they had retreated into that building after the

2592
02:17:15,080 --> 02:17:17,080
Speaker 1: cops shot their first volley and the cubs just kept

2593
02:17:17,120 --> 02:17:20,320
Speaker 1: shooting at them. I saw a lot of that throughout

2594
02:17:20,360 --> 02:17:23,280
Speaker 1: the night, Like it didn't seem like, you know, anyone

2595
02:17:23,400 --> 02:17:24,880
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, now is the time for you guys

2596
02:17:24,920 --> 02:17:27,560
Speaker 1: to fire, you know, like they just just sporadic pot

2597
02:17:27,640 --> 02:17:29,120
Speaker 1: shots throughout the evening.

2598
02:17:29,560 --> 02:17:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we're gonna continue talking about what's going on

2599
02:17:33,000 --> 02:17:35,400
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles and what we think is going to

2600
02:17:35,480 --> 02:17:36,080
Speaker 2: happen next.

2601
02:17:36,280 --> 02:18:04,400
Speaker 1: But first, here's some ads. Fuck and we're back.

2602
02:18:05,160 --> 02:18:08,160
Speaker 2: So if you read like the manuals these people are

2603
02:18:08,200 --> 02:18:11,960
Speaker 2: supposed to follow how they're supposed to utilize the riot

2604
02:18:12,000 --> 02:18:14,800
Speaker 2: control weapons that they use. There's a couple of things

2605
02:18:14,879 --> 02:18:17,360
Speaker 2: that you see. One of them is that there's supposed

2606
02:18:17,360 --> 02:18:21,040
Speaker 2: to be like a bladder of escalation before which they

2607
02:18:21,160 --> 02:18:23,960
Speaker 2: start utilizing force at range. And the other is that

2608
02:18:24,040 --> 02:18:26,240
Speaker 2: there's certain ways they're supposed to use these munitions, like,

2609
02:18:26,320 --> 02:18:29,920
Speaker 2: for example, you're not supposed to shoot people with rubber bullets.

2610
02:18:29,959 --> 02:18:32,520
Speaker 2: You're supposed to bounce them off of the ground and

2611
02:18:32,640 --> 02:18:36,600
Speaker 2: into people, because otherwise they're not really less than lethal. Yeah,

2612
02:18:36,800 --> 02:18:38,680
Speaker 2: we're seeing a lot of cases of people who've had

2613
02:18:38,760 --> 02:18:40,920
Speaker 2: at least several that I can count, I think three

2614
02:18:41,080 --> 02:18:44,880
Speaker 2: of people having surgically removed different like rubber and foam rounds,

2615
02:18:45,040 --> 02:18:47,960
Speaker 2: and it doesn't look like they're abiding by kind of

2616
02:18:48,040 --> 02:18:51,560
Speaker 2: any of the rules by which, per their own documentation,

2617
02:18:51,720 --> 02:18:53,720
Speaker 2: they're supposed to practice.

2618
02:18:53,680 --> 02:18:56,080
Speaker 5: Right, I mean, yeah, that's what I saw.

2619
02:18:56,280 --> 02:18:58,520
Speaker 1: Some of them even have ear techsic on their launches,

2620
02:18:58,560 --> 02:19:00,280
Speaker 1: which I don't know why you'd want an ear take

2621
02:19:00,280 --> 02:19:01,600
Speaker 1: if you were skipping it off the ground.

2622
02:19:02,520 --> 02:19:02,880
Speaker 4: I don't know.

2623
02:19:03,000 --> 02:19:06,120
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a different rounds they're using, but like, yeah, yeah,

2624
02:19:06,280 --> 02:19:11,160
Speaker 1: the overwhelming. What I saw was just like zero to

2625
02:19:11,240 --> 02:19:14,280
Speaker 1: one hundred, right, Like they'd push, they'd throw a TAA

2626
02:19:14,320 --> 02:19:16,160
Speaker 1: gass or a flash bang and then you just hear

2627
02:19:16,200 --> 02:19:18,119
Speaker 1: like pop pop pop pop pop pop pop. Yeah, there's

2628
02:19:18,240 --> 02:19:21,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of them unloaded, and like raising the forty

2629
02:19:21,520 --> 02:19:24,000
Speaker 1: milimeters launcher to the shoulder and pointing it to someone

2630
02:19:24,080 --> 02:19:26,920
Speaker 1: two feet away, Like like I saw a lot of that. Yeah,

2631
02:19:27,120 --> 02:19:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, we'd be going down the streets trying to

2632
02:19:29,160 --> 02:19:31,000
Speaker 1: find a different angle, trying to find where we could

2633
02:19:31,040 --> 02:19:34,520
Speaker 1: stand and do our jobs as press right and come

2634
02:19:34,560 --> 02:19:37,120
Speaker 1: around the corner and just just get forty milimeters pointed

2635
02:19:37,160 --> 02:19:40,680
Speaker 1: at you. I didn't see any skipping shit off the ground. Yeah,

2636
02:19:40,800 --> 02:19:43,440
Speaker 1: I did see businesses getting their windows punched out by

2637
02:19:43,920 --> 02:19:46,520
Speaker 1: things that the police were shooting at people like yeah,

2638
02:19:46,600 --> 02:19:49,520
Speaker 1: which I'm sure we're one not getting blamed on protesters. Yeah, yeah,

2639
02:19:49,560 --> 02:19:52,200
Speaker 1: exactly right. I Mean I saw CNN last night was

2640
02:19:52,200 --> 02:19:54,560
Speaker 1: picking up fucking phone but on rounds and being like

2641
02:19:54,640 --> 02:19:56,840
Speaker 1: these are what they're throwing at the cops, Like yeah,

2642
02:19:57,760 --> 02:20:02,000
Speaker 1: it just remarkable. I mean I did see L A.

2643
02:20:02,160 --> 02:20:02,360
Speaker 4: S D.

2644
02:20:02,640 --> 02:20:06,840
Speaker 1: And National Guard with rifles with magazines in the maguel

2645
02:20:07,000 --> 02:20:08,600
Speaker 1: and you know they had a round chamber.

2646
02:20:08,640 --> 02:20:11,560
Speaker 5: Doesn't matter, does it. No, you're a second away from

2647
02:20:11,640 --> 02:20:13,199
Speaker 5: chambering around, right exactly.

2648
02:20:13,480 --> 02:20:16,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, the IDF carries with an empty chamber and it

2649
02:20:16,760 --> 02:20:18,160
Speaker 1: hasn't stopped them killing a whole lot of.

2650
02:20:18,120 --> 02:20:18,640
Speaker 5: People, has it.

2651
02:20:19,520 --> 02:20:24,320
Speaker 1: The presence of lethal force was closer than I've seen before.

2652
02:20:24,640 --> 02:20:24,840
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2653
02:20:25,400 --> 02:20:27,920
Speaker 1: Look, I'm familiar with seeing overwatch at these things. Right,

2654
02:20:28,040 --> 02:20:30,560
Speaker 1: someone would what you would colloquially referred to as a

2655
02:20:30,600 --> 02:20:33,760
Speaker 1: sniper on a rooftop. But it's not overwatching if you're

2656
02:20:33,800 --> 02:20:35,240
Speaker 1: just in the back of a pickup truck with an

2657
02:20:35,320 --> 02:20:38,880
Speaker 1: M four right, look at it, an unmagnified optic, like

2658
02:20:38,959 --> 02:20:41,320
Speaker 1: you're not You're not over watching shit, you just have

2659
02:20:41,920 --> 02:20:44,720
Speaker 1: lethal force right there. And I saw that a number

2660
02:20:44,720 --> 02:20:46,880
Speaker 1: of times, right from the National Guard and then la

2661
02:20:47,040 --> 02:20:50,040
Speaker 1: SD they did the whole l rad like go home.

2662
02:20:50,240 --> 02:20:52,640
Speaker 1: It's been declared an an awful assembly thing. But then

2663
02:20:52,760 --> 02:20:56,320
Speaker 1: there wasn't that kind of scaled use of force that,

2664
02:20:56,440 --> 02:20:58,640
Speaker 1: like you say, it is supposed to be there. There

2665
02:20:58,800 --> 02:21:02,200
Speaker 1: wasn't really much in way of like we're going to

2666
02:21:02,240 --> 02:21:05,000
Speaker 1: start shooting now, and like, of course that means that

2667
02:21:05,800 --> 02:21:08,440
Speaker 1: if you're an unhoused person, if you've arrived at if

2668
02:21:08,440 --> 02:21:10,720
Speaker 1: you're if you're a local person just trying to get home,

2669
02:21:11,160 --> 02:21:13,080
Speaker 1: it's very possible you can just walk past and get

2670
02:21:13,160 --> 02:21:16,320
Speaker 1: tear guest. Like at one point, right they were opening up,

2671
02:21:16,360 --> 02:21:17,920
Speaker 1: and like I'd been looking for a place for use

2672
02:21:17,959 --> 02:21:21,200
Speaker 1: of bathroom for a while because fucking southern California, right,

2673
02:21:21,280 --> 02:21:23,640
Speaker 1: like there are no public bathrooms.

2674
02:21:23,560 --> 02:21:26,560
Speaker 5: Yes, which is you know, increasingly every major city.

2675
02:21:27,000 --> 02:21:27,640
Speaker 1: He was an issue.

2676
02:21:27,680 --> 02:21:29,560
Speaker 2: People got, people get arrested by the fence for like

2677
02:21:29,640 --> 02:21:32,640
Speaker 2: being on federal property in Portland. Great when like there

2678
02:21:32,720 --> 02:21:33,720
Speaker 2: was really nowhere else to go.

2679
02:21:34,040 --> 02:21:37,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah exactly, and like some some kindly local guy

2680
02:21:38,800 --> 02:21:41,040
Speaker 1: invited us into his building and asked that, you know,

2681
02:21:41,280 --> 02:21:44,520
Speaker 1: let us use the bathroom. But yeah, then we stepped

2682
02:21:44,560 --> 02:21:47,400
Speaker 1: out and suddenly we're like confronted by cops again. Like,

2683
02:21:48,160 --> 02:21:50,320
Speaker 1: you know, I could have been someone who was there

2684
02:21:50,440 --> 02:21:51,680
Speaker 1: just going to have to get a size of pizza.

2685
02:21:51,959 --> 02:21:52,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2686
02:21:52,600 --> 02:21:55,920
Speaker 1: The force was like sporadic and unpredictable throughout the evening.

2687
02:21:56,240 --> 02:21:59,080
Speaker 1: And then as were these convoys of vehicles that would

2688
02:21:59,160 --> 02:22:02,920
Speaker 1: just come hauling as through downtown right obviously not you know,

2689
02:22:03,000 --> 02:22:04,240
Speaker 1: stopping at red lights, et cetera.

2690
02:22:04,560 --> 02:22:05,000
Speaker 4: It was weird.

2691
02:22:05,120 --> 02:22:07,880
Speaker 1: Sometimes a green light would happen. So the cars would

2692
02:22:07,879 --> 02:22:10,560
Speaker 1: start going like and then this cop convoy would come

2693
02:22:10,600 --> 02:22:11,960
Speaker 1: and some of them would turn right, and some of

2694
02:22:12,040 --> 02:22:14,160
Speaker 1: them would assume the cars would stop and go straight on.

2695
02:22:14,640 --> 02:22:16,200
Speaker 1: And so you had the situation where the cops were

2696
02:22:16,240 --> 02:22:19,039
Speaker 1: nearly hitting each other and it just like it seemed

2697
02:22:19,280 --> 02:22:21,680
Speaker 1: utterly chaotic and I don't know what they were doing

2698
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:24,760
Speaker 1: other than driving around a high speed for fun. Once

2699
02:22:24,879 --> 02:22:26,960
Speaker 1: they did manage to kettle some groups of people right

2700
02:22:27,040 --> 02:22:31,280
Speaker 1: like they uh again, folks maybe who haven't been at

2701
02:22:31,280 --> 02:22:33,560
Speaker 1: these events before will not be familiar with the way

2702
02:22:33,600 --> 02:22:36,200
Speaker 1: these things work. But like the police would move in

2703
02:22:36,280 --> 02:22:38,520
Speaker 1: from both sides and then suddenly you're like, oh shit,

2704
02:22:38,520 --> 02:22:40,880
Speaker 1: there's nowhere to go. And then I did didn't put

2705
02:22:40,959 --> 02:22:43,760
Speaker 1: up in a school bus to take presumably to detain

2706
02:22:43,879 --> 02:22:46,880
Speaker 1: those people and take them to process them. But yeah,

2707
02:22:47,040 --> 02:22:49,800
Speaker 1: the tactics were like, I mean, it's their cops. Is

2708
02:22:49,840 --> 02:22:51,800
Speaker 1: what you expect that you know, we've both been doing

2709
02:22:51,840 --> 02:22:54,200
Speaker 1: this for a while. You expect them to use those

2710
02:22:54,240 --> 02:22:56,160
Speaker 1: weapons in the way they could inflict the most damage

2711
02:22:56,160 --> 02:22:59,320
Speaker 1: and harm to people. And unfortunately, like that does seem

2712
02:22:59,320 --> 02:23:02,480
Speaker 1: to be happening in Yeah, well, in terms of where

2713
02:23:02,560 --> 02:23:06,879
Speaker 1: things are right now. You know, Gavin Newsom is trying

2714
02:23:06,920 --> 02:23:07,800
Speaker 1: to thread the needle.

2715
02:23:07,879 --> 02:23:11,280
Speaker 2: It looks like between letting the LAPD do whatever they

2716
02:23:11,440 --> 02:23:13,360
Speaker 2: and he to be fair, I don't think he has

2717
02:23:13,400 --> 02:23:16,160
Speaker 2: any issue with people getting fucked up with right nussions

2718
02:23:16,200 --> 02:23:22,240
Speaker 2: what to do, while also not seeding responsibility for security

2719
02:23:22,280 --> 02:23:24,360
Speaker 2: of his state to the federal government, which has been

2720
02:23:24,360 --> 02:23:25,959
Speaker 2: an interesting line for him to walk.

2721
02:23:26,640 --> 02:23:28,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean his stance seems to be like, the

2722
02:23:28,520 --> 02:23:31,039
Speaker 1: LAPD can fuck up these kids, just fine, we don't

2723
02:23:31,400 --> 02:23:32,199
Speaker 1: need your help.

2724
02:23:32,560 --> 02:23:35,960
Speaker 2: Yes, which I mean they literally can, Like I will say, yeah,

2725
02:23:36,360 --> 02:23:39,840
Speaker 2: that's not incorrect, right, I'm not talking at a moral level.

2726
02:23:39,879 --> 02:23:42,720
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like, yes, the LAPED has sufficient force

2727
02:23:42,800 --> 02:23:45,440
Speaker 2: for the protests that have been that have existed.

2728
02:23:46,320 --> 02:23:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the LAPD then the first Nights who

2729
02:23:48,680 --> 02:23:51,160
Speaker 1: are caught off God, I think right.

2730
02:23:51,320 --> 02:23:53,960
Speaker 2: And so was Ice, And there was a lot of

2731
02:23:54,040 --> 02:23:56,600
Speaker 2: debate about because, like you know, LAPED not coming in

2732
02:23:56,680 --> 02:24:00,120
Speaker 2: initially to support ICE when they got surrounded, like and

2733
02:24:00,480 --> 02:24:02,320
Speaker 2: that's those are the kind of things you get when

2734
02:24:02,600 --> 02:24:06,039
Speaker 2: the authorities are taken off balance. But if the numbers

2735
02:24:06,040 --> 02:24:08,600
Speaker 2: don't keep increasing, you know, and they have to increase

2736
02:24:08,600 --> 02:24:12,520
Speaker 2: pretty exponentially as they move in, you know, federal agents

2737
02:24:12,520 --> 02:24:14,840
Speaker 2: in the National Guard and mobilize the whole police force

2738
02:24:14,879 --> 02:24:15,080
Speaker 2: in a.

2739
02:24:15,080 --> 02:24:15,840
Speaker 1: City like LA.

2740
02:24:16,560 --> 02:24:21,200
Speaker 2: Then this situation becomes basically impossible for protesters to regain

2741
02:24:21,240 --> 02:24:23,560
Speaker 2: the initiative. And I don't know if i'd say it's

2742
02:24:23,560 --> 02:24:26,680
Speaker 2: impossible right now, but unless there's some sort of like

2743
02:24:26,920 --> 02:24:30,360
Speaker 2: massive sea changes, what's happening that does seem kind of

2744
02:24:30,440 --> 02:24:32,520
Speaker 2: like where things are going to go. And to be clear,

2745
02:24:32,560 --> 02:24:38,680
Speaker 2: here we're talking about primarily Compton Paramount some protests, and

2746
02:24:38,720 --> 02:24:41,200
Speaker 2: then downtown Los Angeles some protests. There's a handful of

2747
02:24:41,240 --> 02:24:43,920
Speaker 2: city blocks and one of the largest metro areas in

2748
02:24:44,000 --> 02:24:49,720
Speaker 2: the entire country. This is not Los Angeles all collapsed.

2749
02:24:49,480 --> 02:24:49,640
Speaker 5: You know.

2750
02:24:50,200 --> 02:24:53,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like the rights to could after after

2751
02:24:53,520 --> 02:24:56,560
Speaker 1: ruddy king right, right, right, not not even a little

2752
02:24:56,560 --> 02:25:00,959
Speaker 1: bit yeah yet right, like yeah, I mean people are

2753
02:25:01,000 --> 02:25:04,440
Speaker 1: pissed off obviously, like and maybe they're you know, will

2754
02:25:04,440 --> 02:25:06,080
Speaker 1: you'll get that sort of thing you had in Portland,

2755
02:25:06,160 --> 02:25:09,760
Speaker 1: right where more people came as the protest continued, and

2756
02:25:09,840 --> 02:25:12,440
Speaker 1: as more and more FEDS turned up, Like there were

2757
02:25:12,480 --> 02:25:14,200
Speaker 1: people who might not have showed up at first, just

2758
02:25:14,280 --> 02:25:17,640
Speaker 1: being like upset at the presence of Feds in their city.

2759
02:25:18,160 --> 02:25:20,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, but yeah, it seems like right now

2760
02:25:21,040 --> 02:25:23,520
Speaker 1: that their move is to flood the city. I mean,

2761
02:25:24,440 --> 02:25:27,360
Speaker 1: crazy volumes of cops shouting all the exits on the

2762
02:25:27,400 --> 02:25:31,520
Speaker 1: one ten today. Yeah, National Guard, Like the National Guard

2763
02:25:31,600 --> 02:25:34,560
Speaker 1: folks were mostly around the Federal building from what I saw,

2764
02:25:34,680 --> 02:25:38,640
Speaker 1: but like just a huge volume of cubs and no

2765
02:25:38,879 --> 02:25:42,520
Speaker 1: particular plan other than a vast number of police. And

2766
02:25:42,680 --> 02:25:46,640
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, massive detentions, massive use of riot munitions,

2767
02:25:46,800 --> 02:25:51,160
Speaker 1: massive use of violence to dissuade protest. But then I've

2768
02:25:51,200 --> 02:25:55,119
Speaker 1: seen like obviously it's interesting, right, like, and I'm sure

2769
02:25:55,120 --> 02:25:58,199
Speaker 1: you've experienced this, Robert, Like you can be like nose

2770
02:25:58,440 --> 02:26:01,400
Speaker 1: to the to the grindstone in a conflict zone or

2771
02:26:01,560 --> 02:26:04,280
Speaker 1: at a protest and other clue what's happening, and I

2772
02:26:04,360 --> 02:26:06,400
Speaker 1: have to go on a Twitter or a blue Sky

2773
02:26:06,520 --> 02:26:07,680
Speaker 1: to work out what the fuck's going on?

2774
02:26:07,879 --> 02:26:09,840
Speaker 2: Right, you can tell kind of what's happening in front

2775
02:26:09,879 --> 02:26:13,119
Speaker 2: of you, and even then that you sometimes see something

2776
02:26:13,320 --> 02:26:15,360
Speaker 2: or you're looking left and the thing happens on the right,

2777
02:26:15,400 --> 02:26:17,320
Speaker 2: and you get three different stories about what happened.

2778
02:26:17,480 --> 02:26:19,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, and so like you know, you know, we

2779
02:26:20,560 --> 02:26:23,920
Speaker 1: found out David Twitter had been released when me I

2780
02:26:24,000 --> 02:26:27,320
Speaker 1: sent a message saying that, like, right, and then likewise,

2781
02:26:27,440 --> 02:26:29,119
Speaker 1: folks for finding out that they are protests in other

2782
02:26:29,200 --> 02:26:31,880
Speaker 1: areas of the country, which you know is always I think,

2783
02:26:31,920 --> 02:26:35,880
Speaker 1: gives a little morale boost. Yeah, so like there's a chance.

2784
02:26:36,280 --> 02:26:37,880
Speaker 1: I mean I'm seeing more and more I sort of

2785
02:26:37,879 --> 02:26:40,760
Speaker 1: big protest in New York tonight. They can't deploy the

2786
02:26:40,840 --> 02:26:43,120
Speaker 1: Marines everywhere. I mean, right there, there are a lot

2787
02:26:43,160 --> 02:26:44,480
Speaker 1: of marines, but not that many.

2788
02:26:44,920 --> 02:26:45,160
Speaker 4: I know.

2789
02:26:45,480 --> 02:26:48,680
Speaker 1: It's in one sense, like and I know that this

2790
02:26:48,840 --> 02:26:54,880
Speaker 1: is maybe a strange opinion or stance or what have you,

2791
02:26:55,080 --> 02:26:58,440
Speaker 1: but like, in a sense, it gives me hope to

2792
02:26:58,600 --> 02:27:02,280
Speaker 1: see these things like at a protest or you know,

2793
02:27:02,520 --> 02:27:05,480
Speaker 1: like a big action like that. Like I always feel

2794
02:27:05,560 --> 02:27:07,920
Speaker 1: kind of very cared for and in a strange way

2795
02:27:08,000 --> 02:27:11,160
Speaker 1: because like the only thing that matters is taking care

2796
02:27:11,480 --> 02:27:14,040
Speaker 1: of each other, right, and trying trying not to get hurt,

2797
02:27:14,080 --> 02:27:16,320
Speaker 1: and then for folks who are in the street to

2798
02:27:16,360 --> 02:27:19,560
Speaker 1: try and remain there, right, And like it's quite a

2799
02:27:20,280 --> 02:27:23,440
Speaker 1: like you have this kind of disaster community, right, the

2800
02:27:23,480 --> 02:27:25,600
Speaker 1: same thing that you sometimes find in conflict zones or

2801
02:27:25,600 --> 02:27:28,840
Speaker 1: after natural disasters, and like, right, It's always beautiful to

2802
02:27:28,879 --> 02:27:32,040
Speaker 1: see that, right, Like, you know, I'm vegan and I

2803
02:27:32,080 --> 02:27:35,600
Speaker 1: could not find any fucking vegan food for a while,

2804
02:27:35,680 --> 02:27:38,720
Speaker 1: and like people were bringing me snacks and I thought

2805
02:27:38,760 --> 02:27:41,760
Speaker 1: that was really sweet, and like, you know, I saw

2806
02:27:41,879 --> 02:27:44,680
Speaker 1: people taking care of strangers when they got tear gass,

2807
02:27:44,920 --> 02:27:47,000
Speaker 1: or taking care of strangers when they get shot, or

2808
02:27:47,200 --> 02:27:50,360
Speaker 1: like just folks who have bought snacks and like wanted

2809
02:27:50,400 --> 02:27:52,720
Speaker 1: to give them to one house people who were there, right,

2810
02:27:52,879 --> 02:27:55,760
Speaker 1: So all that stuff is just a reminder that like

2811
02:27:56,400 --> 02:27:58,640
Speaker 1: you know, like actually, you know, if you were consuming

2812
02:27:58,720 --> 02:28:00,840
Speaker 1: this through the fucking New York Times, right, you'd think

2813
02:28:00,879 --> 02:28:02,960
Speaker 1: that people were looting and burning the city. And I

2814
02:28:03,040 --> 02:28:05,680
Speaker 1: idn't see anyone to steal shit. I did see people

2815
02:28:05,760 --> 02:28:08,800
Speaker 1: take care of one another. Yeah, and that's a beautiful thing.

2816
02:28:09,160 --> 02:28:11,880
Speaker 1: And you know, maybe people need to be in the

2817
02:28:11,959 --> 02:28:14,680
Speaker 1: streets to find one another right now, because you know,

2818
02:28:14,800 --> 02:28:20,440
Speaker 1: every every year people it gets harder to go outside,

2819
02:28:20,520 --> 02:28:24,200
Speaker 1: easier to stay on the internet, right, people get more adomized. Yeah,

2820
02:28:24,360 --> 02:28:27,840
Speaker 1: and like it was cool to see like young Mexican folks,

2821
02:28:27,920 --> 02:28:31,080
Speaker 1: young Salvadorean folks, ateml and you know, people have different

2822
02:28:31,200 --> 02:28:34,960
Speaker 1: extractions who are now Americans and in addition obviously to

2823
02:28:35,320 --> 02:28:38,680
Speaker 1: their I think identities and backgrounds showing up and then

2824
02:28:38,800 --> 02:28:41,760
Speaker 1: like young black folks showing up with them and being like, yeah,

2825
02:28:41,879 --> 02:28:44,880
Speaker 1: you know, like fuck the police, and like it was

2826
02:28:44,959 --> 02:28:47,280
Speaker 1: cool to see maybe folks who are a little bit

2827
02:28:47,280 --> 02:28:49,640
Speaker 1: more liberal, like I definitely had folks who are like, oh,

2828
02:28:49,680 --> 02:28:51,400
Speaker 1: we're not here for the riot. We're just here for

2829
02:28:51,520 --> 02:28:54,080
Speaker 1: the peaceful protest in so much as you know, and

2830
02:28:54,160 --> 02:28:55,640
Speaker 1: no one wants to get shot in the face with

2831
02:28:55,720 --> 02:28:57,760
Speaker 1: a forty millimeter, right, no one. No one's there to no,

2832
02:28:58,160 --> 02:29:01,560
Speaker 1: absolutely not. And so it's cool to see those people

2833
02:29:01,640 --> 02:29:05,240
Speaker 1: making those connections. And we need to make those connections now, right,

2834
02:29:05,280 --> 02:29:07,600
Speaker 1: We need to talk to people and talk to each other.

2835
02:29:08,400 --> 02:29:11,360
Speaker 1: I didn't see people beefing with each other. I didn't

2836
02:29:11,800 --> 02:29:15,400
Speaker 1: really see the like optics police, right, if you were again,

2837
02:29:15,440 --> 02:29:17,720
Speaker 1: if you were consuming this on the fucking blue sky,

2838
02:29:18,600 --> 02:29:22,840
Speaker 1: which can be intolerably libs sometimes like seeing people being like,

2839
02:29:22,959 --> 02:29:25,160
Speaker 1: you know, because I personally disagree with the optics of

2840
02:29:25,200 --> 02:29:28,600
Speaker 1: this one person's decision, the whole protest is therefore flawed. Yeah,

2841
02:29:28,640 --> 02:29:30,760
Speaker 1: the whole protest as fuck, And let's just let I

2842
02:29:30,879 --> 02:29:34,600
Speaker 1: steal their fucking children, Like, yeah, people letting people be

2843
02:29:34,959 --> 02:29:37,800
Speaker 1: and deal with the consequences their own actions instead of

2844
02:29:37,840 --> 02:29:38,640
Speaker 1: being condescending.

2845
02:29:39,040 --> 02:29:41,760
Speaker 2: Now, and I mean I'm looking at Twitter right now

2846
02:29:41,920 --> 02:29:44,480
Speaker 2: where half of the comments are about someone who drove

2847
02:29:44,600 --> 02:29:48,240
Speaker 2: through a crowd in LA and people either this is

2848
02:29:48,280 --> 02:29:51,240
Speaker 2: what happens when America gets fed up? Or what other

2849
02:29:51,320 --> 02:29:53,480
Speaker 2: option did he have? You know, you're getting a mix

2850
02:29:53,560 --> 02:29:54,320
Speaker 2: of that sort of thing.

2851
02:29:54,680 --> 02:29:58,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, shit, are people okay? Like I'm not.

2852
02:29:58,280 --> 02:30:02,440
Speaker 1: Aware of any like serious injuries fatalities, certainly, but yeah,

2853
02:30:02,680 --> 02:30:06,800
Speaker 1: yeah that was the other weird thing, like vehicles throughout

2854
02:30:06,879 --> 02:30:09,760
Speaker 1: that means LA everyone's driving all the time, but there

2855
02:30:09,800 --> 02:30:15,040
Speaker 1: were vehicles like constantly just moving through yep. Yeah, No,

2856
02:30:15,080 --> 02:30:16,959
Speaker 1: it's LA rights with people coming out to do their

2857
02:30:17,040 --> 02:30:20,440
Speaker 1: donuts and stuff. But like it is a risk, like

2858
02:30:20,520 --> 02:30:23,440
Speaker 1: if someone we've shared a car bomb, brother, but yeah,

2859
02:30:23,520 --> 02:30:26,640
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we sure did. I've seen a few car bombs.

2860
02:30:27,040 --> 02:30:28,880
Speaker 1: It always freaks me out. We need a big crowd

2861
02:30:29,000 --> 02:30:31,000
Speaker 1: like that, and then you've got these cars around like

2862
02:30:31,760 --> 02:30:35,520
Speaker 1: the potential for vehicular violence. Yeah, it's not great. Yeah again, right,

2863
02:30:35,560 --> 02:30:38,200
Speaker 1: we have the quote unquote public safety forces deployed in

2864
02:30:38,280 --> 02:30:40,280
Speaker 1: massive numbers, and no one's no one's stopping that.

2865
02:30:40,879 --> 02:30:43,879
Speaker 2: No, And you know, also just a note to people,

2866
02:30:43,959 --> 02:30:47,720
Speaker 2: the only realistic way to stop cars in this situation

2867
02:30:47,959 --> 02:30:50,520
Speaker 2: is with a barrier made of other cars. Right is

2868
02:30:50,879 --> 02:30:54,040
Speaker 2: you block off the route of march with vehicles. There's

2869
02:30:54,080 --> 02:30:58,000
Speaker 2: no other realistic tool at your disposal as somebody who's

2870
02:30:58,080 --> 02:31:00,440
Speaker 2: part of a protest to stop a full ass vehicle.

2871
02:31:01,440 --> 02:31:03,800
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk a little bit more with a couple

2872
02:31:03,840 --> 02:31:05,720
Speaker 2: of updates from the ground and then close out.

2873
02:31:05,840 --> 02:31:07,800
Speaker 1: But first here's our last bit of ads.

2874
02:31:21,360 --> 02:31:24,360
Speaker 7: Oh go not for good. No, they're gonna be go

2875
02:31:25,040 --> 02:31:25,400
Speaker 7: not not.

2876
02:31:27,200 --> 02:31:30,480
Speaker 4: Not do the same.

2877
02:31:30,800 --> 02:31:35,400
Speaker 9: Your your baby's gonna be taken away.

2878
02:31:35,920 --> 02:31:37,920
Speaker 8: That's not how that's.

2879
02:31:39,440 --> 02:31:40,720
Speaker 7: Hide there.

2880
02:31:46,400 --> 02:31:47,720
Speaker 1: So we're back in James.

2881
02:31:47,879 --> 02:31:51,000
Speaker 2: While you were leaving, the Mayor of Los Angeles declared

2882
02:31:51,080 --> 02:31:54,280
Speaker 2: a curfew in place from eight pm to six a m.

2883
02:31:54,959 --> 02:31:58,360
Speaker 2: For the one ten to the west, I five to

2884
02:31:58,640 --> 02:32:01,960
Speaker 2: the east, out, one ten to south, I five and

2885
02:32:02,080 --> 02:32:04,800
Speaker 2: one ten to north. This is from the public safety

2886
02:32:04,800 --> 02:32:08,560
Speaker 2: alert texted out to people in Los Angeles. So people

2887
02:32:08,640 --> 02:32:11,080
Speaker 2: are allowed to travel to and from work, to seek

2888
02:32:11,320 --> 02:32:15,800
Speaker 2: or to give emergency care ems. People are exempt. No

2889
02:32:15,879 --> 02:32:18,840
Speaker 2: one else is exempt as far as I'm aware. But yeah,

2890
02:32:18,920 --> 02:32:22,000
Speaker 2: that's that's the situation. So part of why Mayor Karen

2891
02:32:22,040 --> 02:32:25,000
Speaker 2: Bass is issue at curfew is that it gives the

2892
02:32:25,080 --> 02:32:28,959
Speaker 2: police extra kind of freedom to take people into custody,

2893
02:32:29,120 --> 02:32:29,760
Speaker 2: right yeah.

2894
02:32:29,800 --> 02:32:32,920
Speaker 1: Oh, credential media are exempt. Yeah, that's what I was told.

2895
02:32:33,080 --> 02:32:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, people too, and from work. Credential media, emergency and

2896
02:32:36,080 --> 02:32:40,040
Speaker 2: medical personnel law enforcement are the limited exemptions. So that's

2897
02:32:40,320 --> 02:32:41,680
Speaker 2: what we've got going on right now.

2898
02:32:41,959 --> 02:32:42,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2899
02:32:42,160 --> 02:32:43,920
Speaker 1: And if you are at their working as a journalists,

2900
02:32:43,959 --> 02:32:46,400
Speaker 1: like it's important to carry your press pass right oh yeah, yeah,

2901
02:32:46,720 --> 02:32:49,840
Speaker 1: we'll stop you from getting shot with impact munitions because

2902
02:32:49,840 --> 02:32:52,240
Speaker 1: they've done that to a lot of people. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

2903
02:32:52,280 --> 02:32:54,720
Speaker 1: And like you know, I had a large blue press

2904
02:32:55,000 --> 02:32:58,080
Speaker 1: badge on my play carrier like I always do, and like, yeah,

2905
02:32:58,400 --> 02:33:01,800
Speaker 1: it's not doesn't make you bulletproof. Yeah, there's a curfew tonight, which,

2906
02:33:01,879 --> 02:33:04,200
Speaker 1: like you say, just gives them the means to use

2907
02:33:04,360 --> 02:33:07,640
Speaker 1: more coercive force and to charge people more harshly. They'll

2908
02:33:07,680 --> 02:33:11,840
Speaker 1: continue doing that. Helicopter shit, right, they had probably four

2909
02:33:11,920 --> 02:33:12,800
Speaker 1: or five helicopters.

2910
02:33:13,160 --> 02:33:15,680
Speaker 2: They really love putting them out in LA and especially

2911
02:33:15,720 --> 02:33:17,520
Speaker 2: now that they got the military. Yeah.

2912
02:33:17,640 --> 02:33:20,680
Speaker 1: Man, it had a real kind of blade run of

2913
02:33:20,800 --> 02:33:23,240
Speaker 1: vibe to be in this dark city at night with

2914
02:33:23,360 --> 02:33:28,000
Speaker 1: these helicopter circling spotlighting people from above, and like little

2915
02:33:28,080 --> 02:33:32,360
Speaker 1: fires happening across the city and then occasional clouds of

2916
02:33:32,560 --> 02:33:35,720
Speaker 1: like spicy air floating towards you. I have seen since

2917
02:33:35,720 --> 02:33:38,840
Speaker 1: speculation that they were using some kind of other chemical

2918
02:33:38,920 --> 02:33:42,680
Speaker 1: irritant instead of tear gas. I think that the most

2919
02:33:43,080 --> 02:33:45,640
Speaker 1: likely explanation is just they were using tear gas that

2920
02:33:45,800 --> 02:33:46,280
Speaker 1: was older.

2921
02:33:46,560 --> 02:33:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it tastes different when it's older. The shit the

2922
02:33:49,120 --> 02:33:51,960
Speaker 2: FEDS US is often different from the shit state or

2923
02:33:52,040 --> 02:33:55,160
Speaker 2: local police use, like yeah, you know, you get different

2924
02:33:55,200 --> 02:33:58,640
Speaker 2: sort of mixes, but I'm not aware, like it's I'm

2925
02:33:58,680 --> 02:34:00,320
Speaker 2: certain it's just tear gas, right.

2926
02:34:00,400 --> 02:34:02,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think it's just a bit different.

2927
02:34:02,760 --> 02:34:05,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, different variants in ages of ta gas and sometimes

2928
02:34:05,720 --> 02:34:08,200
Speaker 1: they've take on different appearances too. And they weren't really

2929
02:34:08,280 --> 02:34:11,080
Speaker 1: fogging the tar gas, not that I saw. They were

2930
02:34:11,120 --> 02:34:13,760
Speaker 1: just tossing tossing out the grenades. You didn't get that

2931
02:34:13,879 --> 02:34:15,680
Speaker 1: like wall of tear gas that you guys.

2932
02:34:15,520 --> 02:34:16,800
Speaker 5: Are familiar with in Portland.

2933
02:34:17,080 --> 02:34:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it took on like the

2934
02:34:19,640 --> 02:34:22,480
Speaker 1: protest athetic, Like I didn't see as many people with

2935
02:34:23,000 --> 02:34:29,000
Speaker 1: half masks or hard hats or goggles, any of that stuff.

2936
02:34:29,040 --> 02:34:32,680
Speaker 1: So like, yeah, and in one sense, people it's great

2937
02:34:32,720 --> 02:34:36,440
Speaker 1: to see people coming out and like engaging their right

2938
02:34:36,640 --> 02:34:39,760
Speaker 1: to protest. Yeah, and coming from where they are as

2939
02:34:39,800 --> 02:34:42,480
Speaker 1: they are showing up to show out for something, leaving

2940
02:34:42,600 --> 02:34:43,280
Speaker 1: work or whatever.

2941
02:34:43,640 --> 02:34:45,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it makes me worried for them.

2942
02:34:46,120 --> 02:34:50,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you know, I'm they're around the block a

2943
02:34:50,320 --> 02:34:51,720
Speaker 1: few times, and I'm worried that people are going to

2944
02:34:51,760 --> 02:34:52,320
Speaker 1: get fucked up.

2945
02:34:53,040 --> 02:34:57,000
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's curfew tonight. It's curfew tonight. There's still

2946
02:34:57,200 --> 02:34:59,480
Speaker 2: marine numbers are still at around seven hundred. There's about

2947
02:34:59,480 --> 02:35:02,199
Speaker 2: four thousand National Guard troops, so the number of military

2948
02:35:02,280 --> 02:35:06,400
Speaker 2: deployed significantly outnumbers demonstrators at this point. Mayor care and

2949
02:35:06,480 --> 02:35:09,240
Speaker 2: Bass has stated that or or Sorry. The Pentagon has

2950
02:35:09,280 --> 02:35:11,480
Speaker 2: stated it's costing about one hundred and thirty four million

2951
02:35:11,560 --> 02:35:16,440
Speaker 2: dollars this deployment. So jesus man, Yeah, it's it's it's

2952
02:35:16,640 --> 02:35:18,960
Speaker 2: like I'd say, it's it's not a pointless escalation. The

2953
02:35:18,959 --> 02:35:20,880
Speaker 2: point of the escalation is that they want to keep

2954
02:35:21,000 --> 02:35:23,240
Speaker 2: using the military, right, Yeah, definitely.

2955
02:35:23,840 --> 02:35:28,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to sort of establish a precedent that domestic

2956
02:35:28,280 --> 02:35:31,560
Speaker 1: unrest could be dealt with by the military, which, to

2957
02:35:31,680 --> 02:35:35,120
Speaker 1: be clear, like by my reading, is completely in contradiction

2958
02:35:35,240 --> 02:35:38,120
Speaker 1: of the Constitution. Yeah, but a lot of things that

2959
02:35:38,120 --> 02:35:41,240
Speaker 1: are in constitution of the Constitution happened, especially with policing

2960
02:35:41,600 --> 02:35:45,200
Speaker 1: all the fucking time, right, Like, yeah, like it is

2961
02:35:45,280 --> 02:35:48,800
Speaker 1: important not to normalize this again, Like you don't have

2962
02:35:49,000 --> 02:35:52,560
Speaker 1: to be like a blue head Antifa to be like

2963
02:35:52,680 --> 02:35:56,640
Speaker 1: this is fucked up. And I think I definitely spoke

2964
02:35:56,680 --> 02:35:58,920
Speaker 1: to a few people, like folks who have come out

2965
02:35:58,920 --> 02:36:00,920
Speaker 1: of church and stuff, just like, yeah, we had they

2966
02:36:01,000 --> 02:36:04,120
Speaker 1: had sent the marines here, so we just came on

2967
02:36:04,240 --> 02:36:07,520
Speaker 1: down because that's not okay, that's good to see. Yeah,

2968
02:36:07,600 --> 02:36:10,760
Speaker 1: And those are conversations that people who are invested in

2969
02:36:11,240 --> 02:36:14,080
Speaker 1: not living in a country where your first memorizs don't

2970
02:36:14,120 --> 02:36:16,800
Speaker 1: matter anymore because you can get shot by an eighteen

2971
02:36:16,879 --> 02:36:19,120
Speaker 1: year old marine who hasn't had the time to really

2972
02:36:19,640 --> 02:36:24,360
Speaker 1: morally and ethically consider that decision. Yeah, Like it's important

2973
02:36:24,400 --> 02:36:27,520
Speaker 1: to have those talks with people now because like it

2974
02:36:27,680 --> 02:36:31,880
Speaker 1: is very concerning. Yeah, you know, you and I have

2975
02:36:32,560 --> 02:36:35,440
Speaker 1: have attended a few civil wars. I don't want to

2976
02:36:35,480 --> 02:36:37,560
Speaker 1: be like this country spinning towards civil wars that you know,

2977
02:36:37,640 --> 02:36:39,200
Speaker 1: don't think we have a long long way from that.

2978
02:36:39,400 --> 02:36:41,720
Speaker 2: I mean, when the President stands in front of a

2979
02:36:41,760 --> 02:36:44,280
Speaker 2: bunch of enlisted men at Fort Bragg and talks about

2980
02:36:44,360 --> 02:36:47,800
Speaker 2: how they're using the military to restore order to an

2981
02:36:47,800 --> 02:36:51,200
Speaker 2: American city that's been invaded, there's no longer an argument

2982
02:36:51,320 --> 02:36:56,360
Speaker 2: that those comparisons are an escalation or exaggeration, right, like hyperbolic,

2983
02:36:56,520 --> 02:36:59,720
Speaker 2: like yeah, like we're in the shit right now, folks. Yeah,

2984
02:37:00,000 --> 02:37:01,760
Speaker 2: and like show me a thing that Asad wouldn't have

2985
02:37:01,879 --> 02:37:05,280
Speaker 2: said today, right, right, right. And what you don't have

2986
02:37:05,640 --> 02:37:08,280
Speaker 2: is an actual insurrection going on. What you don't have

2987
02:37:08,480 --> 02:37:11,080
Speaker 2: is anyone actually fighting the government. You have people who

2988
02:37:11,120 --> 02:37:13,560
Speaker 2: are like angry and yelling and some folks who throw

2989
02:37:13,800 --> 02:37:17,960
Speaker 2: through rocks. You do not have a militant uprising against

2990
02:37:18,160 --> 02:37:21,280
Speaker 2: federal power. They're just kind of acting like it. Yeah,

2991
02:37:21,360 --> 02:37:22,960
Speaker 2: Like if you have an insurrection in this country. This

2992
02:37:23,040 --> 02:37:25,760
Speaker 2: country has a shit ton of guns. You don't know

2993
02:37:25,840 --> 02:37:28,240
Speaker 2: if there's an insurrection because people will be using them.

2994
02:37:28,360 --> 02:37:29,480
Speaker 2: Like that's not happening.

2995
02:37:29,720 --> 02:37:33,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's young people in the street waving flags and

2996
02:37:33,280 --> 02:37:36,599
Speaker 1: shouting and like saying fuck the police, is a constitutionally

2997
02:37:36,640 --> 02:37:39,080
Speaker 1: protected right in this country. Like, yes, it is. You

2998
02:37:39,160 --> 02:37:44,280
Speaker 1: should not get hurt for exercising your first amendment, right right, Yeah, man,

2999
02:37:44,360 --> 02:37:46,800
Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm proud of all those people who showed up.

3000
02:37:46,800 --> 02:37:48,480
Speaker 5: I'm proud of them for taking care of each other.

3001
02:37:48,959 --> 02:37:51,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I hope that they stay there, and I

3002
02:37:52,000 --> 02:37:53,400
Speaker 1: hope that they you know, as they stay there, they

3003
02:37:53,440 --> 02:37:54,560
Speaker 1: become more astute.

3004
02:37:54,840 --> 02:37:56,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, they learn some stuff.

3005
02:37:56,200 --> 02:37:58,480
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of running two hundred yards away

3006
02:37:58,520 --> 02:38:00,280
Speaker 1: from the cops in a very straight line state, down

3007
02:38:00,320 --> 02:38:03,160
Speaker 1: a straight street. Yeah, Like, which is not the move

3008
02:38:03,320 --> 02:38:04,600
Speaker 1: right that you want to be.

3009
02:38:05,120 --> 02:38:06,800
Speaker 5: You want to be. I'm up, he tiese me, I'm down.

3010
02:38:06,879 --> 02:38:07,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3011
02:38:07,440 --> 02:38:11,640
Speaker 1: Serpentine, serpentine, you do the worm, That's that's how you

3012
02:38:11,680 --> 02:38:12,000
Speaker 1: get him.

3013
02:38:12,720 --> 02:38:12,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3014
02:38:13,200 --> 02:38:15,200
Speaker 1: There is some polling out early polling.

3015
02:38:15,360 --> 02:38:19,440
Speaker 2: This is from g Elliot Morris, formerly of five point

3016
02:38:19,440 --> 02:38:23,320
Speaker 2: thirty eight, but conducted June tenth by you gov. Of

3017
02:38:23,520 --> 02:38:26,199
Speaker 2: four thy three hundred and nine adults, do you approve

3018
02:38:26,200 --> 02:38:28,480
Speaker 2: a disapprove of deploying National Guard soldiers to the Los

3019
02:38:28,520 --> 02:38:31,080
Speaker 2: Angeles area to respond to protests over the federal government's

3020
02:38:31,080 --> 02:38:34,200
Speaker 2: immigration enforcement Thirty eight percent of food approve, forty five

3021
02:38:34,280 --> 02:38:38,360
Speaker 2: percent disapprove, and nineteen percent are not sure. Do you

3022
02:38:38,400 --> 02:38:42,160
Speaker 2: approve or disapprove of deploying marines to the Los Angeles area?

3023
02:38:42,280 --> 02:38:46,240
Speaker 2: Thirty four percent approve, forty seven percent disapprove, nineteen percent

3024
02:38:46,360 --> 02:38:50,160
Speaker 2: not sure. So you know these aren't popular measures, although

3025
02:38:50,160 --> 02:38:52,600
Speaker 2: they're also not as unpopular as you would hope.

3026
02:38:52,879 --> 02:38:55,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's not great. I'd like to see you more.

3027
02:38:55,600 --> 02:38:58,520
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you've got Tom Cotton doing. Is I

3028
02:38:58,600 --> 02:39:00,440
Speaker 1: forgetting to woll stoot you on a wash Post?

3029
02:39:00,560 --> 02:39:01,000
Speaker 5: OpEd?

3030
02:39:01,560 --> 02:39:01,720
Speaker 4: Right?

3031
02:39:02,160 --> 02:39:03,360
Speaker 1: Send in the troops for real?

3032
02:39:03,480 --> 02:39:03,880
Speaker 4: This time?

3033
02:39:04,200 --> 02:39:05,480
Speaker 5: Was that? I thought that was the Times?

3034
02:39:05,840 --> 02:39:06,360
Speaker 4: Was it the time?

3035
02:39:06,560 --> 02:39:11,320
Speaker 1: I think I forget exactly. Yeah, they're somewhat indistinguishable these days,

3036
02:39:11,400 --> 02:39:14,120
Speaker 1: quickly in the op ed pages. You're right, robbit, it

3037
02:39:14,200 --> 02:39:17,040
Speaker 1: was the Times. No, No, that's a twenty twenty op ed. Oh,

3038
02:39:17,200 --> 02:39:19,360
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five op ed was in the Wall Street chair.

3039
02:39:19,600 --> 02:39:22,800
Speaker 1: He got a new one. Okay, yeah, he wrote twenty twenty, rubbit,

3040
02:39:22,920 --> 02:39:25,360
Speaker 1: he wrote send in the troops. In twenty twenty five,

3041
02:39:25,520 --> 02:39:30,200
Speaker 1: he wrote, send in the troops comma for real for real? Okay?

3042
02:39:30,320 --> 02:39:32,960
Speaker 5: Well he got it, yep, yeah, I mean yeah, he

3043
02:39:33,080 --> 02:39:33,920
Speaker 5: got what he wanted.

3044
02:39:34,640 --> 02:39:38,160
Speaker 1: Well done, Ranger Tom guy who lied about being an

3045
02:39:38,280 --> 02:39:42,360
Speaker 1: Army ranger yes, not a ranger, Tom, Yeah, not a

3046
02:39:42,480 --> 02:39:45,560
Speaker 1: ranger Tom. Yeah. I mean you see this in the

3047
02:39:45,680 --> 02:39:47,760
Speaker 1: UK a lot. I'm very familiar with this kind of

3048
02:39:47,800 --> 02:39:50,840
Speaker 1: oh soo doing the pos. Yeah, maybe that's a good

3049
02:39:50,879 --> 02:39:53,120
Speaker 1: place for us to end. If you were in the

3050
02:39:53,280 --> 02:39:55,800
Speaker 1: US military or the National Guard, if you were someone

3051
02:39:55,879 --> 02:39:57,959
Speaker 1: you love is in the military of the National Guard.

3052
02:39:58,760 --> 02:40:01,800
Speaker 1: Now it's a good time to read up about bloody Sunday. Yeah,

3053
02:40:02,080 --> 02:40:03,880
Speaker 1: happened in Ireland, and now is a good time to

3054
02:40:04,000 --> 02:40:06,840
Speaker 1: look at what's currently happening, what has been happening to

3055
02:40:06,920 --> 02:40:11,720
Speaker 1: those soldiers, because it took a long time for those

3056
02:40:11,800 --> 02:40:16,520
Speaker 1: people to stand trial. And it's not officers who are

3057
02:40:16,560 --> 02:40:21,360
Speaker 1: standing trial, right, it's soldiers. It's paratory business case because

3058
02:40:21,560 --> 02:40:24,320
Speaker 1: those are always going to be the fingers on the trigger, right. Yeah,

3059
02:40:24,600 --> 02:40:27,120
Speaker 1: And so you know, no one, no one knows which

3060
02:40:27,160 --> 02:40:32,119
Speaker 1: direction history is moving in. But like things don't feel

3061
02:40:32,160 --> 02:40:33,720
Speaker 1: morally right, you know, there were things that the GI

3062
02:40:33,879 --> 02:40:37,520
Speaker 1: Rights Hotline. But I think people should be aware what

3063
02:40:37,760 --> 02:40:41,240
Speaker 1: happens when countries use their militaries to oppress protest and

3064
02:40:41,360 --> 02:40:43,400
Speaker 1: what has happened to some of the soldiers who have

3065
02:40:43,480 --> 02:40:44,360
Speaker 1: been ordered to do that.

3066
02:40:44,959 --> 02:40:49,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look up Bloody Sunday folks. Maybe we'll cover

3067
02:40:49,120 --> 02:40:52,400
Speaker 2: that in the not too distant future, because yeah, that's

3068
02:40:52,520 --> 02:40:54,440
Speaker 2: just going to get more relevant. Don't listen to you

3069
02:40:54,600 --> 02:40:57,640
Speaker 2: too if you can avoid it, but just look it up. Yeah,

3070
02:40:57,879 --> 02:41:01,640
Speaker 2: avoid you two. Not the song Sunday, our bloody Sunday.

3071
02:41:01,800 --> 02:41:04,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, all right, everybody, Well this has been it

3072
02:41:04,360 --> 02:41:07,920
Speaker 2: could happen here. We will be back tomorrow. We'll see

3073
02:41:07,959 --> 02:41:13,560
Speaker 2: if Gavin Newsom has been arrested yet. All right, thanks James, Yeah, thanks,

3074
02:41:13,959 --> 02:41:14,880
Speaker 2: that's an episode.

3075
02:41:14,959 --> 02:41:46,440
Speaker 5: Bye to Live in Die in l A. Hey, this

3076
02:41:46,640 --> 02:41:47,280
Speaker 5: is not a game.

3077
02:41:47,360 --> 02:41:48,640
Speaker 4: It is smoke bomb blast.

3078
02:41:48,959 --> 02:41:52,240
Speaker 9: That was the data Feds king. That was the data

3079
02:41:52,320 --> 02:41:55,280
Speaker 9: Feds king. That was the data bets.

3080
02:41:55,480 --> 02:41:56,520
Speaker 5: Live in din in l a.

3081
02:41:56,760 --> 02:41:59,360
Speaker 7: Why nothing will be the same. It's smoke bomb blast.

3082
02:41:59,680 --> 02:42:01,080
Speaker 1: That was the data Feds came.

3083
02:42:02,160 --> 02:42:03,680
Speaker 4: That was the data Feds came.

3084
02:42:04,840 --> 02:42:06,720
Speaker 10: That was the data fet A Little and Dying in

3085
02:42:06,959 --> 02:42:09,320
Speaker 10: la I ain't a song we sang. It's the gang

3086
02:42:09,400 --> 02:42:11,560
Speaker 10: banging Traders. We was ready when it came for us.

3087
02:42:11,680 --> 02:42:15,320
Speaker 10: Monkey Monkey Piggy, Piggy, immigration cowardpping off the back of

3088
02:42:15,400 --> 02:42:19,039
Speaker 10: black bands, out in Paramount, black bagging, family, kidnapping, broad

3089
02:42:19,120 --> 02:42:22,160
Speaker 10: daylight stare with us, staring us to fight back, right right.

3090
02:42:22,200 --> 02:42:24,600
Speaker 10: He trying to make a shoe sides Black Love, Brown

3091
02:42:24,720 --> 02:42:27,280
Speaker 10: Pride won't play when it's time to ride for West

3092
02:42:27,360 --> 02:42:30,360
Speaker 10: side East Sides. He trying to send Americans to Foremard prisons.

3093
02:42:30,400 --> 02:42:31,360
Speaker 10: You don't think he'll try.

3094
02:42:31,240 --> 02:42:32,760
Speaker 1: To put black bodies inside.

3095
02:42:33,000 --> 02:42:35,640
Speaker 10: Game time, Homie, gonna meet us on that Lameter. I

3096
02:42:35,640 --> 02:42:39,040
Speaker 10: ain't scared of nail Lamiga. We knew the trail we're

3097
02:42:39,080 --> 02:42:41,560
Speaker 10: being here. Gonna keep it peace, Bro. They gonna try

3098
02:42:41,560 --> 02:42:43,400
Speaker 10: to bait us. It insta gat us. But wait, bro,

3099
02:42:43,720 --> 02:42:46,000
Speaker 10: take it to their face, Brody masking in this paper.

3100
02:42:46,080 --> 02:42:48,360
Speaker 10: Then we work for the border. We just following with

3101
02:42:48,480 --> 02:42:51,520
Speaker 10: all this, but fear overtakes them matches a facade. We

3102
02:42:51,680 --> 02:42:54,920
Speaker 10: exercise our rights, they said, National Guard, and one thing's

3103
02:42:55,000 --> 02:42:58,080
Speaker 10: for certain. Burned down the regime when the president chooses

3104
02:42:58,160 --> 02:43:01,120
Speaker 10: to send the marine and die in la Hey, this

3105
02:43:01,280 --> 02:43:01,959
Speaker 10: is not a game.

3106
02:43:02,040 --> 02:43:03,320
Speaker 4: It is smoke bomb blast.

3107
02:43:03,640 --> 02:43:06,920
Speaker 9: That was the data FEDS king. That was the data

3108
02:43:07,000 --> 02:43:10,400
Speaker 9: FEDS king. That was the data FEDS ca live and

3109
02:43:10,480 --> 02:43:13,000
Speaker 9: die in la Why, nothing will be the same. It's

3110
02:43:13,040 --> 02:43:16,880
Speaker 9: smoke bomb blast. That was the data FEDS cane. That

3111
02:43:17,080 --> 02:43:20,959
Speaker 9: was the data FEDS cane. That was the data FEDS came.

3112
02:43:21,800 --> 02:43:25,120
Speaker 5: This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder, our weekly

3113
02:43:25,200 --> 02:43:28,160
Speaker 5: newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world,

3114
02:43:28,240 --> 02:43:30,400
Speaker 5: and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today

3115
02:43:30,680 --> 02:43:34,720
Speaker 5: I'm joined by Mia Wong and James Stout. This episode,

3116
02:43:34,760 --> 02:43:37,840
Speaker 5: we are covering the week of June four to June eleventh.

3117
02:43:38,680 --> 02:43:43,440
Speaker 5: Let's start James with an update on the protests happening

3118
02:43:43,480 --> 02:43:46,680
Speaker 5: in LA in response to mass ice raids in the

3119
02:43:46,720 --> 02:43:49,960
Speaker 5: Los Angeles area and also around the country.

3120
02:43:50,440 --> 02:43:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've been in La. I was up covering it.

3121
02:43:53,320 --> 02:43:55,600
Speaker 1: I'm back home now. It's on Wednesday. We did a

3122
02:43:55,640 --> 02:43:59,199
Speaker 1: whole episode about this people can listen to. In terms

3123
02:43:59,240 --> 02:44:01,800
Speaker 1: of update, I think things were a little bit smaller tonight.

3124
02:44:01,879 --> 02:44:04,480
Speaker 1: There were a large number of detentions made late tonight.

3125
02:44:04,560 --> 02:44:06,320
Speaker 1: You mean last night? Tuesday night?

3126
02:44:06,400 --> 02:44:07,000
Speaker 5: Tuesday night?

3127
02:44:07,200 --> 02:44:07,440
Speaker 4: Okay.

3128
02:44:07,560 --> 02:44:07,760
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3129
02:44:08,200 --> 02:44:12,760
Speaker 1: To summarize, right, the first two nights saw the city.

3130
02:44:12,920 --> 02:44:13,560
Speaker 5: Caught off guard.

3131
02:44:14,000 --> 02:44:14,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3132
02:44:14,520 --> 02:44:17,600
Speaker 1: The weekend was pretty spicy. Yeah, it got pretty well

3133
02:44:17,640 --> 02:44:19,320
Speaker 1: that there. A couple of cop cars got destroyed. To

3134
02:44:19,400 --> 02:44:24,440
Speaker 1: think some weimos made the ultimate sacrifice. Urrip Weymouth yep Oh.

3135
02:44:24,480 --> 02:44:27,920
Speaker 1: I saw them trucking the Weimos out and there was

3136
02:44:28,040 --> 02:44:31,480
Speaker 1: not much Weimo left, Like it was the cremaines of

3137
02:44:31,560 --> 02:44:36,640
Speaker 1: the Weimo passed me gone, but Notfregan. So by Monday

3138
02:44:36,760 --> 02:44:39,480
Speaker 1: morning they had flooded Los Angele.

3139
02:44:39,480 --> 02:44:40,200
Speaker 5: It's with police.

3140
02:44:40,440 --> 02:44:44,320
Speaker 1: I saw police from LAPD, LASD. I saw police from

3141
02:44:44,800 --> 02:44:49,920
Speaker 1: fps DHS, National Guard, California Highway Patrol.

3142
02:44:50,360 --> 02:44:50,720
Speaker 4: It's play.

3143
02:44:50,760 --> 02:44:54,680
Speaker 1: It's like Pokemon for cops up there, and that resulted

3144
02:44:55,000 --> 02:44:56,560
Speaker 1: in them splitting.

3145
02:44:56,200 --> 02:44:59,279
Speaker 5: Up protesters, kettling and detaining people.

3146
02:44:59,280 --> 02:45:02,879
Speaker 1: On Monday night. Yeah, and they made extremely liberal use

3147
02:45:02,920 --> 02:45:07,720
Speaker 1: of impact munitions, chemical lyeritans, et cetera. Fatday Sunday, Monday Tuesday.

3148
02:45:08,240 --> 02:45:11,680
Speaker 1: Thousands of impact munitions that you can find casings all

3149
02:45:11,720 --> 02:45:14,520
Speaker 1: the DTLA if you just go walk around. I saw

3150
02:45:14,600 --> 02:45:16,760
Speaker 1: a lot of like people are tagged up a lot

3151
02:45:16,760 --> 02:45:20,680
Speaker 1: of buildings in DTLA. But from what I've seen, I

3152
02:45:20,720 --> 02:45:22,440
Speaker 1: don't know. We'll see, right, It's also the week, so

3153
02:45:22,520 --> 02:45:24,920
Speaker 1: maybe maybe things will get bigger again over the weekend.

3154
02:45:25,160 --> 02:45:27,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, things can get less combative during the week because

3155
02:45:27,400 --> 02:45:31,720
Speaker 5: people are busy with work and keeping themselves like fed

3156
02:45:31,920 --> 02:45:35,280
Speaker 5: and yeah, handhouse, and then on the weekend things can

3157
02:45:35,360 --> 02:45:37,279
Speaker 5: sometimes open back up again.

3158
02:45:37,520 --> 02:45:37,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3159
02:45:38,440 --> 02:45:40,920
Speaker 7: And also it's worth it's worth noting how these how

3160
02:45:40,959 --> 02:45:43,080
Speaker 7: these specific protests are flaring up, which is that like

3161
02:45:43,800 --> 02:45:47,080
Speaker 7: these ones are flaring up when Ice like drags people

3162
02:45:47,120 --> 02:45:47,760
Speaker 7: out of a place.

3163
02:45:47,879 --> 02:45:51,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is directly in response to ICE kidnapping their names, right.

3164
02:45:51,959 --> 02:45:54,160
Speaker 7: And so you know, the next time ICE does a

3165
02:45:54,240 --> 02:45:56,120
Speaker 7: bunch of kidnappings of people, there's a chance that it

3166
02:45:56,160 --> 02:45:58,880
Speaker 7: will pop off again because people are being like, holy shit,

3167
02:45:58,959 --> 02:45:59,959
Speaker 7: don't take my neighbor away.

3168
02:46:00,440 --> 02:46:00,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3169
02:46:00,720 --> 02:46:03,480
Speaker 5: And the LA protests are already happening in a sequence.

3170
02:46:03,560 --> 02:46:03,680
Speaker 1: Right.

3171
02:46:03,720 --> 02:46:05,880
Speaker 5: We had stuff happening in San Diego. We then had

3172
02:46:05,920 --> 02:46:08,600
Speaker 5: stuff in Minneapolis. We then had stuff in Chicago. We

3173
02:46:08,760 --> 02:46:11,160
Speaker 5: then had the really big flare of which was LA.

3174
02:46:11,560 --> 02:46:13,400
Speaker 5: And I think what's interesting right now is that instead

3175
02:46:13,400 --> 02:46:16,080
Speaker 5: of having just like nationwide riots like there was in

3176
02:46:16,120 --> 02:46:18,600
Speaker 5: twenty twenty, this is more like a sequence that actually

3177
02:46:18,680 --> 02:46:21,720
Speaker 5: directly follows the actions of ICE. And in some ways,

3178
02:46:21,760 --> 02:46:24,040
Speaker 5: I think this can be harder to combat. If every

3179
02:46:24,520 --> 02:46:27,880
Speaker 5: city has the capacity to do what LA has done

3180
02:46:28,000 --> 02:46:30,720
Speaker 5: in response to the actions of ICE, that follow the

3181
02:46:30,800 --> 02:46:33,440
Speaker 5: actions of ICE, that could be harder to prepare for

3182
02:46:33,840 --> 02:46:35,920
Speaker 5: than just the federal government realizing that we have to

3183
02:46:36,080 --> 02:46:40,400
Speaker 5: do massive counterinsurgency everywhere, all at the same time, like

3184
02:46:40,440 --> 02:46:42,800
Speaker 5: what happened in twenty twenty. If instead this is a

3185
02:46:43,000 --> 02:46:46,240
Speaker 5: rolling sequence of protests that happened directly in response to

3186
02:46:46,320 --> 02:46:49,360
Speaker 5: ice actions, any city could be next. Instead of just

3187
02:46:49,400 --> 02:46:51,880
Speaker 5: trying to prepare for nationwide riots, they have to be

3188
02:46:52,040 --> 02:46:54,760
Speaker 5: this more like mobile fluid force. They have to respond

3189
02:46:54,800 --> 02:46:57,480
Speaker 5: to different outbursts that happen in different cities at different times.

3190
02:46:57,480 --> 02:47:00,280
Speaker 5: And I think the other advantage that this model has

3191
02:47:01,040 --> 02:47:04,240
Speaker 5: is that the actual protesters themselves can also iterate on tactics.

3192
02:47:04,520 --> 02:47:06,360
Speaker 5: Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel every time, you

3193
02:47:06,440 --> 02:47:08,880
Speaker 5: can take what happened in a previous city, like a

3194
02:47:08,959 --> 02:47:11,680
Speaker 5: week ago, two weeks ago, and iterate on that, iterate

3195
02:47:11,760 --> 02:47:14,600
Speaker 5: on what was unsuccessfully, what captured attention, and what was

3196
02:47:14,640 --> 02:47:18,240
Speaker 5: able to catch the cops off guard, minimizing mass arrests.

3197
02:47:18,720 --> 02:47:20,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, in terms of the state response, just in case

3198
02:47:20,720 --> 02:47:23,359
Speaker 1: people have missed it right, two thousand National Guard troops,

3199
02:47:23,640 --> 02:47:28,200
Speaker 1: seven hundred United States Marines. The Marines whitly came from

3200
02:47:28,240 --> 02:47:30,440
Speaker 1: twenty nine Palms. I know the Corps has like an

3201
02:47:30,560 --> 02:47:33,560
Speaker 1: urban warfare school or at least had one there in

3202
02:47:33,640 --> 02:47:36,600
Speaker 1: twenty nine Palms. Obviously Camp Pendleton is a bigger base.

3203
02:47:36,800 --> 02:47:39,280
Speaker 1: I actually might not be geograph. They're both huge and

3204
02:47:39,440 --> 02:47:41,320
Speaker 1: closer to LA, but they sent them from twenty nine

3205
02:47:41,360 --> 02:47:45,080
Speaker 1: Palms instead. I didn't see any Marines. They're just supposed

3206
02:47:45,080 --> 02:47:47,400
Speaker 1: to be protecting federal assets and not supposed to be

3207
02:47:47,440 --> 02:47:50,760
Speaker 1: out there like straight up policing. Obviously, that's, you know, unconstitutional.

3208
02:47:51,080 --> 02:47:53,480
Speaker 1: One could make a case it's unconstitutional to be deploying

3209
02:47:53,520 --> 02:47:55,160
Speaker 1: them at all in this fashion.

3210
02:47:55,600 --> 02:47:58,760
Speaker 5: There are some on the streets now. National Guard is

3211
02:47:58,800 --> 02:48:01,400
Speaker 5: actually making arrests on the street. Marines have not as

3212
02:48:01,520 --> 02:48:04,200
Speaker 5: of Wednesday, but some of the Marines have been deployed.

3213
02:48:04,520 --> 02:48:07,160
Speaker 5: There's upwards of seven hundred who are like in the

3214
02:48:07,240 --> 02:48:09,840
Speaker 5: process of being deployed to LA streets right now, out

3215
02:48:09,879 --> 02:48:12,600
Speaker 5: of two thousand available troops, some of which are actually

3216
02:48:12,640 --> 02:48:16,680
Speaker 5: still receiving training on standard rules of force. So these

3217
02:48:16,720 --> 02:48:20,360
Speaker 5: people do not have necessarily like extensive training on police

3218
02:48:20,400 --> 02:48:24,160
Speaker 5: crowd control, but are currently brushing up on crowd control tactics.

3219
02:48:24,360 --> 02:48:28,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I saw from National Guard was like it

3220
02:48:28,120 --> 02:48:30,080
Speaker 1: seemed to be by rank, although I'm not certain of that.

3221
02:48:30,600 --> 02:48:33,480
Speaker 1: Guys with with shields and sticks right, just straight up

3222
02:48:33,520 --> 02:48:36,280
Speaker 1: poles as opposed to like truncheons like a T shape

3223
02:48:36,320 --> 02:48:39,320
Speaker 1: or an L shape or whatever. And then probably one

3224
02:48:39,400 --> 02:48:42,000
Speaker 1: in every five or six had an M four with

3225
02:48:42,120 --> 02:48:44,840
Speaker 1: a magazine. That's a gun for people who aren't familiar,

3226
02:48:44,959 --> 02:48:48,280
Speaker 1: it's in AAR fifteen and that's obviously live ammunition. So

3227
02:48:48,560 --> 02:48:50,400
Speaker 1: like they didn't seem to have any access to like

3228
02:48:50,480 --> 02:48:52,440
Speaker 1: less lethals or they didn't bring them. A Y did,

3229
02:48:53,760 --> 02:48:56,120
Speaker 1: but I don't know about marines. And obviously we saw

3230
02:48:56,280 --> 02:48:59,200
Speaker 1: like police using less lethals. And then LASD also had

3231
02:49:00,240 --> 02:49:03,680
Speaker 1: some cops with m pas amongst their formations.

3232
02:49:04,120 --> 02:49:06,920
Speaker 5: And this is just about to like really expand outside

3233
02:49:06,959 --> 02:49:10,760
Speaker 5: of LA and California amidst anti ICE protests across Texas.

3234
02:49:10,879 --> 02:49:14,640
Speaker 5: Governor Greg Abbott just deployed the Texas National Guard. And

3235
02:49:14,840 --> 02:49:18,040
Speaker 5: on Tuesday night, I believe MSNBC broke the story that

3236
02:49:18,400 --> 02:49:21,560
Speaker 5: ICE is about to send Special Response Team quote unquote

3237
02:49:21,600 --> 02:49:25,360
Speaker 5: tactical units to five Democrat controlled areas, namely in New

3238
02:49:25,400 --> 02:49:29,880
Speaker 5: York City, Seattle, Chicago, Philadelphia, and northern Virginia.

3239
02:49:30,120 --> 02:49:32,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, SRT is like a swat team if if you're

3240
02:49:32,760 --> 02:49:35,400
Speaker 1: not familiar, Like there was a DHSSRT that ended up

3241
02:49:35,440 --> 02:49:39,120
Speaker 1: responding in to that South Park protest in San Diego

3242
02:49:39,200 --> 02:49:41,600
Speaker 1: that we mentioned last week or the week before.

3243
02:49:42,120 --> 02:49:44,680
Speaker 5: As of Wednesday, there's already been protests this week and

3244
02:49:44,760 --> 02:49:49,000
Speaker 5: over half US states. This will certainly continue throughout the weekend,

3245
02:49:49,440 --> 02:49:52,200
Speaker 5: at least for LA. On Tuesday night, the mayor announced

3246
02:49:52,200 --> 02:49:54,680
Speaker 5: an eight pm curfew in downtown Los Angeles. There were

3247
02:49:54,720 --> 02:49:58,360
Speaker 5: mass arrests Tuesday night, hundreds of people. I think the

3248
02:49:58,440 --> 02:50:02,960
Speaker 5: other advantage that this kind of rolling sequence model that

3249
02:50:03,040 --> 02:50:07,200
Speaker 5: we've seen with like San Diego, Minneapolis, Chicago, LA is

3250
02:50:07,280 --> 02:50:08,840
Speaker 5: that not only does it give people time to like

3251
02:50:08,920 --> 02:50:10,760
Speaker 5: iterate on tactics, but it also gives people a break.

3252
02:50:11,320 --> 02:50:14,800
Speaker 5: If anyone who survived twenty twenty, like you know how

3253
02:50:15,040 --> 02:50:17,520
Speaker 5: how intense burnout can be from just doing that all

3254
02:50:17,600 --> 02:50:20,840
Speaker 5: the time. Yeah, and having the built in brakes where

3255
02:50:20,879 --> 02:50:24,720
Speaker 5: you can like recover physically and mentally while iterating on tactics,

3256
02:50:25,040 --> 02:50:26,160
Speaker 5: that could be interesting to see.

3257
02:50:27,320 --> 02:50:29,240
Speaker 7: I think also this one thing we should notice about this,

3258
02:50:29,320 --> 02:50:33,200
Speaker 7: which is that like there's a very clear actual thing

3259
02:50:33,320 --> 02:50:35,160
Speaker 7: you're trying to do here, which is stop them from

3260
02:50:35,200 --> 02:50:38,039
Speaker 7: taking these people. And even if you fail to immediately

3261
02:50:38,080 --> 02:50:40,080
Speaker 7: take someone, like stop them taking someone in the moment.

3262
02:50:40,200 --> 02:50:43,320
Speaker 7: Every single like second they're having to do dealing with

3263
02:50:43,440 --> 02:50:45,360
Speaker 7: this shit is means that they're not doing it. Yeah,

3264
02:50:45,360 --> 02:50:48,000
Speaker 7: so you're you're degrading their capacity. Yeah, exactly. The time

3265
02:50:48,120 --> 02:50:51,640
Speaker 7: is like the most valuable asset year. Yeah, and like

3266
02:50:51,680 --> 02:50:53,959
Speaker 7: obviously again like the larger goals you want to like expel,

3267
02:50:54,320 --> 02:50:55,680
Speaker 7: like you know, like one of the most common things

3268
02:50:55,680 --> 02:50:57,400
Speaker 7: I'm hearing from people is just like ice out of

3269
02:50:57,440 --> 02:50:58,880
Speaker 7: the city, right, Like, we don't want them to be

3270
02:50:58,959 --> 02:51:02,000
Speaker 7: fucking doing these raids, but every every time they're forced

3271
02:51:02,080 --> 02:51:05,040
Speaker 7: to like actually face resistance when they're doing a raid

3272
02:51:05,160 --> 02:51:06,600
Speaker 7: makes it much much harder for them to do what

3273
02:51:06,640 --> 02:51:09,039
Speaker 7: they have to start planning for there to be resistance

3274
02:51:09,080 --> 02:51:12,279
Speaker 7: to the rage, which slows them down. And yeah, everything

3275
02:51:12,320 --> 02:51:15,680
Speaker 7: you could do to put fucking wrenches into the gears

3276
02:51:15,840 --> 02:51:19,000
Speaker 7: until the machine breaks is good. And then there's a

3277
02:51:19,120 --> 02:51:21,440
Speaker 7: there's a very clear path from A to B two

3278
02:51:21,480 --> 02:51:23,640
Speaker 7: C in a way that they're kind of aren't. Like,

3279
02:51:23,720 --> 02:51:26,480
Speaker 7: it doesn't rely on politicians doing stuff. It just relies

3280
02:51:26,520 --> 02:51:28,200
Speaker 7: on us stopping them.

3281
02:51:28,879 --> 02:51:30,360
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, it.

3282
02:51:30,360 --> 02:51:32,720
Speaker 1: Tak me politicians doing stuff. The city of Glendale did

3283
02:51:32,800 --> 02:51:36,360
Speaker 1: cancel its detention contract with Ice, right, so they won't

3284
02:51:36,360 --> 02:51:39,120
Speaker 1: be detaining people there. So like a little bit of

3285
02:51:39,160 --> 02:51:42,440
Speaker 1: progress there. And Gavin Newsom has said some shit about

3286
02:51:42,440 --> 02:51:44,640
Speaker 1: the deployment of the National Guard and California has far

3287
02:51:44,720 --> 02:51:47,480
Speaker 1: a court case like news has not done everything in

3288
02:51:47,520 --> 02:51:50,320
Speaker 1: his power to stop that. But it's Gavin Newsom. What

3289
02:51:50,400 --> 02:51:52,200
Speaker 1: do you expect I'll be back in the al a.

3290
02:51:52,360 --> 02:51:57,120
Speaker 1: Things continue there, but it's uh, certainly the biggest protest

3291
02:51:57,200 --> 02:52:01,280
Speaker 1: we've seen this time around in the Trump administration. All right,

3292
02:52:01,560 --> 02:52:04,880
Speaker 1: let's go and break and come back to discuss more news.

3293
02:52:17,200 --> 02:52:21,880
Speaker 1: We are back and unlike people from twelve countries who

3294
02:52:21,920 --> 02:52:24,840
Speaker 1: will not be coming back to the United States for

3295
02:52:24,920 --> 02:52:28,920
Speaker 1: the foreseeable future because the Trump administration has announced.

3296
02:52:28,600 --> 02:52:30,480
Speaker 5: A new travel ban.

3297
02:52:30,920 --> 02:52:33,680
Speaker 1: The form of the travel ban is basically, anyone who

3298
02:52:33,720 --> 02:52:35,680
Speaker 1: applies for a visa or is in the process of

3299
02:52:35,760 --> 02:52:39,160
Speaker 1: applying for a visa currently, if they are from one

3300
02:52:39,200 --> 02:52:42,320
Speaker 1: of these twelve countries is unable to obtain a visa

3301
02:52:42,400 --> 02:52:45,480
Speaker 1: to the United States. Right the twelve countries, seven have

3302
02:52:45,600 --> 02:52:51,120
Speaker 1: partial restrictions, and then the full ban is on Afghanistan, Myanmar, Chad,

3303
02:52:51,280 --> 02:52:56,680
Speaker 1: the Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, eritrere Haiti, Iran, Livia, Somalia,

3304
02:52:57,120 --> 02:53:02,880
Speaker 1: Sudan and Yemen, and then Borindi, kuber Laos, Sierra Leone, Togo,

3305
02:53:02,959 --> 02:53:06,400
Speaker 1: Turkmenistan and Venezuela have like a higher barrier, right and

3306
02:53:06,520 --> 02:53:09,960
Speaker 1: some visas are not available to them. Meanmar is an

3307
02:53:10,000 --> 02:53:11,360
Speaker 1: interesting inclusion there.

3308
02:53:11,680 --> 02:53:12,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is.

3309
02:53:13,520 --> 02:53:16,680
Speaker 1: They looked at two criteria eteems right, because Trump made

3310
02:53:16,680 --> 02:53:18,600
Speaker 1: an executive order at the start of his presidency, like

3311
02:53:18,680 --> 02:53:22,440
Speaker 1: looking to identify countries for a travel man. The two

3312
02:53:22,520 --> 02:53:27,640
Speaker 1: criteria they had were visa overstay percentages and the quote

3313
02:53:27,720 --> 02:53:30,720
Speaker 1: unquote not having a competent central authority to cooperate with

3314
02:53:30,840 --> 02:53:33,320
Speaker 1: on vetting. Right, So like you can't do a background

3315
02:53:33,400 --> 02:53:35,480
Speaker 1: check on someone if their country doesn't have that facility.

3316
02:53:36,000 --> 02:53:38,520
Speaker 1: It's a claim, right. I think they got vanmar on

3317
02:53:38,680 --> 02:53:43,240
Speaker 1: visa overstay percentages. It's worth noting, right that they use

3318
02:53:43,360 --> 02:53:47,080
Speaker 1: percentages and not raw numbers for a reason, because, yeah,

3319
02:53:47,160 --> 02:53:51,400
Speaker 1: a certain percentage of Burmese people may overstay their visa.

3320
02:53:51,840 --> 02:53:54,680
Speaker 1: I think it's twenty seven point one percent. That amounts

3321
02:53:54,760 --> 02:53:58,600
Speaker 1: to five hundred and forty three individuals. If we look

3322
02:53:58,640 --> 02:54:02,000
Speaker 1: at for instance, France, these are twenty twenty three numbers,

3323
02:54:02,720 --> 02:54:05,480
Speaker 1: about zero point six percent of French people over stay

3324
02:54:05,520 --> 02:54:08,880
Speaker 1: their visa. That amounts to nine one hundred and eighty

3325
02:54:08,920 --> 02:54:11,960
Speaker 1: two individuals, right, So like a percentage is great, but

3326
02:54:12,360 --> 02:54:13,880
Speaker 1: a big percentage of a small thing is still a

3327
02:54:13,879 --> 02:54:16,840
Speaker 1: small thing. Yeah, this is how they're attempting to justify

3328
02:54:16,879 --> 02:54:19,879
Speaker 1: it though in terms of bulletproofing it through the courts. Obviously,

3329
02:54:19,920 --> 02:54:22,360
Speaker 1: they didn't have the best luck with their travel ban

3330
02:54:22,400 --> 02:54:26,040
Speaker 1: in the first administration, so using this tactic is one

3331
02:54:26,120 --> 02:54:28,680
Speaker 1: that they're hoping will justify it. Will it will stick

3332
02:54:28,680 --> 02:54:32,240
Speaker 1: the landing through the courts. I should add that they

3333
02:54:32,600 --> 02:54:36,160
Speaker 1: have some exemptions right, existing visa holders who are currently

3334
02:54:36,200 --> 02:54:38,600
Speaker 1: within the United States can remain in the United States.

3335
02:54:38,720 --> 02:54:38,840
Speaker 5: Right.

3336
02:54:39,160 --> 02:54:42,120
Speaker 1: In practice, lots of these countries only get single entry visas,

3337
02:54:42,200 --> 02:54:43,520
Speaker 1: so it might be hard for them to leave and

3338
02:54:43,600 --> 02:54:47,800
Speaker 1: come back. But it's sometimes I've heard it reported that

3339
02:54:47,959 --> 02:54:49,800
Speaker 1: all these people, like people from these countries can no

3340
02:54:49,840 --> 02:54:51,080
Speaker 1: longer come to the United States or be in the

3341
02:54:51,160 --> 02:54:54,480
Speaker 1: United States, and that's not true. There are exemptions for

3342
02:54:54,879 --> 02:54:58,760
Speaker 1: people who are dual citizens. There are exemptions for adoptive children.

3343
02:54:59,320 --> 02:55:03,640
Speaker 1: There are exempts for ethnic and religious minorities in Iran.

3344
02:55:04,200 --> 02:55:10,240
Speaker 1: There are exemptions for sports teams because the United States. Well,

3345
02:55:10,240 --> 02:55:13,640
Speaker 1: the United States is holding the World Cup and the Olympics, right, yeah,

3346
02:55:13,680 --> 02:55:17,440
Speaker 1: so it would be something of a fascical spectacle if

3347
02:55:17,959 --> 02:55:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, nineteen countries were not represented. I mean, the

3348
02:55:21,040 --> 02:55:23,400
Speaker 1: Olympic Games is something of a fascical spectacle to begin with,

3349
02:55:23,480 --> 02:55:27,840
Speaker 1: one could argue, but yeah, they didn't want that, right,

3350
02:55:28,080 --> 02:55:31,600
Speaker 1: they didn't want that like international spectacle. So a professional

3351
02:55:31,600 --> 02:55:34,160
Speaker 1: athlete visa is hard to get at the best of times,

3352
02:55:34,680 --> 02:55:36,879
Speaker 1: so that is a high bar, but those ones still

3353
02:55:36,920 --> 02:55:40,240
Speaker 1: seem to be available. And then there's also exemptions for

3354
02:55:40,360 --> 02:55:43,000
Speaker 1: SIV wrote special immigrant visas. These are people who've worked

3355
02:55:43,000 --> 02:55:45,560
Speaker 1: closely with the United States. The vast bulk of them

3356
02:55:45,600 --> 02:55:49,400
Speaker 1: will be Afghan people, people who worked as interpreters or

3357
02:55:49,720 --> 02:55:52,320
Speaker 1: otherwise cooperated with the United States during the twenty years

3358
02:55:52,879 --> 02:55:56,879
Speaker 1: the United States was a war in Afghanistan. Again, I've

3359
02:55:56,920 --> 02:56:00,000
Speaker 1: seen that mis reported, including by people who really should

3360
02:56:00,160 --> 02:56:02,840
Speaker 1: know better. But you know, I'm never not disappointed in

3361
02:56:02,879 --> 02:56:06,959
Speaker 1: a lot of people's immigration coverage. This will be challenging court, right,

3362
02:56:07,240 --> 02:56:10,560
Speaker 1: but I think they have gone some way to trying

3363
02:56:10,680 --> 02:56:14,120
Speaker 1: to make this a bit more bulletproof than they did before.

3364
02:56:14,800 --> 02:56:17,800
Speaker 1: And it is concerning that they seem to have a

3365
02:56:17,879 --> 02:56:21,240
Speaker 1: better chance. Obviously pretty concerning, especially for us, you know,

3366
02:56:21,480 --> 02:56:25,039
Speaker 1: with our extensive reboarding on Burma or Mihanmar, that those

3367
02:56:25,080 --> 02:56:29,080
Speaker 1: people can't come here and be safe. Yeah, that's a

3368
02:56:29,120 --> 02:56:30,640
Speaker 1: travel ban in a nutshell, I guess.

3369
02:56:31,320 --> 02:56:33,080
Speaker 7: Also, I think it's worth noting so like this is

3370
02:56:33,160 --> 02:56:36,040
Speaker 7: just an expanded version. Well, I guess it's like a

3371
02:56:36,080 --> 02:56:38,480
Speaker 7: little bit of differences, but it's basically an expanded version

3372
02:56:38,480 --> 02:56:39,959
Speaker 7: of the Muslim band from his first term.

3373
02:56:40,200 --> 02:56:43,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, with some new countries and I think maybe the

3374
02:56:43,360 --> 02:56:45,360
Speaker 1: removal of some countries from previously.

3375
02:56:45,879 --> 02:56:48,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, and like it's worth noting that, like in Tromp

3376
02:56:49,120 --> 02:56:52,200
Speaker 7: one like that immediately caused the airport protests, which were

3377
02:56:52,240 --> 02:56:54,480
Speaker 7: like the first big protests of the administration that were

3378
02:56:54,520 --> 02:56:58,240
Speaker 7: extremely effective until people like went home. And this time

3379
02:56:58,520 --> 02:57:02,560
Speaker 7: it's basically been a news story because we're so far

3380
02:57:02,640 --> 02:57:05,400
Speaker 7: along that the protests have been about like ices dragging

3381
02:57:05,440 --> 02:57:10,080
Speaker 7: our neighbors away, and yeah, I just think that's fucking

3382
02:57:10,320 --> 02:57:12,720
Speaker 7: bad as shit. And also the airport protests, like we're

3383
02:57:12,800 --> 02:57:14,000
Speaker 7: really effective.

3384
02:57:14,080 --> 02:57:16,160
Speaker 1: Some of the more effective protests in those years. Yeah,

3385
02:57:16,640 --> 02:57:19,920
Speaker 1: I am I did see a flyer for an airport protest,

3386
02:57:19,959 --> 02:57:22,560
Speaker 1: but I've seen no evidence of one's occurring.

3387
02:57:22,800 --> 02:57:24,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, I had heard that there was going to be

3388
02:57:24,879 --> 02:57:26,920
Speaker 7: one on Monday, but that it just like didn't happen.

3389
02:57:27,120 --> 02:57:29,480
Speaker 7: So I don't know what's going on with that. Yeah,

3390
02:57:29,600 --> 02:57:31,840
Speaker 7: but that was a thing that was pretty effective, and

3391
02:57:32,000 --> 02:57:35,600
Speaker 7: they also didn't eat the shirt of everyone for most

3392
02:57:35,640 --> 02:57:37,160
Speaker 7: of it, which was nice.

3393
02:57:37,440 --> 02:57:37,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3394
02:57:39,000 --> 02:57:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well Mia, talking of beats, how about we dropped

3395
02:57:43,440 --> 02:57:47,160
Speaker 1: some beats right now with this sick tariff song. Great work, James,

3396
02:57:47,440 --> 02:57:56,040
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, jazz rocking jazz bots.

3397
02:57:56,120 --> 02:58:06,280
Speaker 7: Sorry, jazz rocking jazz bock. The Donald Trump has apparently,

3398
02:58:06,560 --> 02:58:10,320
Speaker 7: according to him, resolved that the trade war with China.

3399
02:58:10,840 --> 02:58:14,280
Speaker 7: He's claiming the negotiation one is he's claiming, he's claiming victory,

3400
02:58:14,400 --> 02:58:17,760
Speaker 7: mission accomplished. Yeah, the claim that he's making out of

3401
02:58:17,959 --> 02:58:21,080
Speaker 7: the out of the London negotiations. And I want to

3402
02:58:21,120 --> 02:58:22,760
Speaker 7: point out that I have not heard anything from the

3403
02:58:22,840 --> 02:58:25,320
Speaker 7: Chinese side. It's possible there will be soft from the

3404
02:58:25,400 --> 02:58:27,840
Speaker 7: Chinese side by the time this episode comes out. It's

3405
02:58:27,920 --> 02:58:29,760
Speaker 7: possible this whole deal will have collass by.

3406
02:58:29,760 --> 02:58:30,560
Speaker 5: The time this comes out.

3407
02:58:31,520 --> 02:58:36,039
Speaker 7: It seems like the deal is that US maintains tariffs

3408
02:58:36,040 --> 02:58:38,000
Speaker 7: of fifty five percent, which is what they're at right now,

3409
02:58:38,800 --> 02:58:42,360
Speaker 7: China maintains ten percent tariffs, and then China ensures US

3410
02:58:42,440 --> 02:58:46,640
Speaker 7: access to rare earth metals, and then the US does.

3411
02:58:47,600 --> 02:58:50,360
Speaker 7: Trump was talking about the US not actually doing a

3412
02:58:50,440 --> 02:58:56,080
Speaker 7: crackdown on like Chinese international students. So who knows what

3413
02:58:56,240 --> 02:58:57,800
Speaker 7: the fuck is going to happen with any of that.

3414
02:58:58,920 --> 02:59:01,480
Speaker 7: That is the reporting that's coming out right now.

3415
02:59:02,160 --> 02:59:02,480
Speaker 5: I don't know.

3416
02:59:02,600 --> 02:59:05,800
Speaker 7: Quite frankly, I am skeptical this is going to hold.

3417
02:59:06,879 --> 02:59:09,760
Speaker 7: I again, like I don't I don't know if like

3418
02:59:10,680 --> 02:59:13,360
Speaker 7: in two days when this episode comes out of any

3419
02:59:13,400 --> 02:59:16,320
Speaker 7: of this is gonna be true, because again we have

3420
02:59:16,440 --> 02:59:18,760
Speaker 7: heard nothing from the Chinese side. It has all been

3421
02:59:18,800 --> 02:59:23,720
Speaker 7: from Trump, So who the fuck knows. But yeah, that's

3422
02:59:23,840 --> 02:59:24,280
Speaker 7: that that is.

3423
02:59:24,400 --> 02:59:25,960
Speaker 5: That is the late of tariff news. This is the

3424
02:59:26,040 --> 02:59:31,000
Speaker 5: kind of short one. That's that's what we've got that's exciting.

3425
02:59:31,080 --> 02:59:33,320
Speaker 5: That's exciting that we won trade is back. I can

3426
02:59:33,400 --> 02:59:37,279
Speaker 5: go back to buying everything I own from Timu, no problem.

3427
02:59:37,680 --> 02:59:40,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I give my usual disclaimer that fifty

3428
02:59:40,120 --> 02:59:42,840
Speaker 7: percent tariff on China is like fucking ruinous the global economy,

3429
02:59:42,840 --> 02:59:45,520
Speaker 7: et cetera, et cetera. I do genuinely hope that like

3430
02:59:45,560 --> 02:59:47,840
Speaker 7: the Chinese international students are getting cracked out on because

3431
02:59:48,920 --> 02:59:52,480
Speaker 7: Jesus fucking Christ, those poor kids. All of these policies

3432
02:59:52,480 --> 02:59:55,440
Speaker 7: are tied together in this sort of like unhinged like

3433
02:59:55,600 --> 02:59:59,080
Speaker 7: American Nationalists project, et cetera, et cetera. They're all connected.

3434
02:59:59,520 --> 03:00:03,480
Speaker 7: They hate it and AA really really fun time to

3435
03:00:03,520 --> 03:00:05,080
Speaker 7: be a Chinese trans woman in the US.

3436
03:00:05,440 --> 03:00:11,480
Speaker 5: WHOA, Okay, it's also fun to enjoy the COVID vaccine

3437
03:00:11,840 --> 03:00:13,880
Speaker 5: because we might not get it for much longer. I

3438
03:00:13,959 --> 03:00:16,040
Speaker 5: guess I'll do a brief update on an episode I

3439
03:00:16,080 --> 03:00:19,200
Speaker 5: did with Cave a few weeks ago. So RFK has

3440
03:00:19,440 --> 03:00:25,040
Speaker 5: now dismissed the entirety of the ACIP, the CDC's Vaccine

3441
03:00:25,160 --> 03:00:29,280
Speaker 5: Advisory Committee that has just been completely dissolved. This happened

3442
03:00:29,520 --> 03:00:33,119
Speaker 5: on Tuesday. That was the big theory that Cave had

3443
03:00:33,400 --> 03:00:35,880
Speaker 5: is that if that panel gets dissolved, that that was

3444
03:00:35,959 --> 03:00:38,400
Speaker 5: kind of the last line of defense with like reasonable

3445
03:00:38,480 --> 03:00:41,720
Speaker 5: people being in charge of COVID vaccine recommendations at the CDC.

3446
03:00:42,120 --> 03:00:44,480
Speaker 5: And that has gone. And just a few minutes ago,

3447
03:00:45,520 --> 03:00:48,520
Speaker 5: RFK Junior announced the replacements. And i'd have not had

3448
03:00:48,600 --> 03:00:50,800
Speaker 5: enough time to look into all these guys, because this

3449
03:00:50,959 --> 03:00:54,120
Speaker 5: was literally just thirty minutes ago. But at least half

3450
03:00:54,160 --> 03:00:56,720
Speaker 5: of them are at the very least what would be

3451
03:00:56,760 --> 03:01:02,760
Speaker 5: considered COVID vaccine skeptic, oh cool, right wing libertarian types,

3452
03:01:02,840 --> 03:01:06,680
Speaker 5: people who have been dismissed from their academic positions. Basically,

3453
03:01:06,760 --> 03:01:10,640
Speaker 5: it's who you would expect RFK two to submit to

3454
03:01:10,760 --> 03:01:14,840
Speaker 5: a vaccine advisory panel. The very least half are like cranks.

3455
03:01:16,040 --> 03:01:17,760
Speaker 5: I will try to look into the rest of these

3456
03:01:17,760 --> 03:01:19,480
Speaker 5: guys in the future. We should probably do a full

3457
03:01:19,520 --> 03:01:23,760
Speaker 5: follow up episode eventually on the new panel. So not

3458
03:01:24,000 --> 03:01:27,520
Speaker 5: looking good on the COVID vaccine front.

3459
03:01:28,680 --> 03:01:31,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, we also have very bad news from the FCC,

3460
03:01:31,400 --> 03:01:34,840
Speaker 7: which instead of like you know, I don't know, Like

3461
03:01:35,120 --> 03:01:38,040
Speaker 7: I know, crypto scams are supposed to be the SEC's thing,

3462
03:01:38,120 --> 03:01:40,080
Speaker 7: but I feel like the FCC also should have fucking

3463
03:01:40,080 --> 03:01:42,440
Speaker 7: things with crypto scams. But instead of instead of going

3464
03:01:42,480 --> 03:01:45,800
Speaker 7: after the fucking crypto scams, what they're doing is they're

3465
03:01:45,800 --> 03:01:50,080
Speaker 7: gonna hold like meetings basically with what is I'm assuming

3466
03:01:50,200 --> 03:01:51,960
Speaker 7: is going to be a bunch of the most unhingedy

3467
03:01:52,040 --> 03:01:57,599
Speaker 7: transgrifters and anti trans like hacks, frauds, and violent bigots.

3468
03:01:57,560 --> 03:02:00,760
Speaker 5: Notably not trans people. Yeah, yeah, they will be included.

3469
03:02:01,480 --> 03:02:04,360
Speaker 5: No for the statements no trans people, no trans people, no, no, No.

3470
03:02:04,920 --> 03:02:08,560
Speaker 5: They're looking into ways to do like FCC investigations for

3471
03:02:08,760 --> 03:02:12,879
Speaker 5: like deceptive marketing practices for any doctor and also parents

3472
03:02:12,920 --> 03:02:14,600
Speaker 5: for some reason, which how the fuck is you got

3473
03:02:14,600 --> 03:02:16,039
Speaker 5: heater a parent for defective marketing?

3474
03:02:16,600 --> 03:02:18,760
Speaker 7: What the fuck are we doing here? But anyone who

3475
03:02:19,200 --> 03:02:22,680
Speaker 7: like gives a child's any kind of trans healthcare?

3476
03:02:22,800 --> 03:02:25,080
Speaker 5: I mean, is it specifically trans healthcare or are they

3477
03:02:25,160 --> 03:02:29,920
Speaker 5: trying to like specify like surgical procedures, because I've seen

3478
03:02:30,000 --> 03:02:31,240
Speaker 5: some like mixed reporting on this.

3479
03:02:32,080 --> 03:02:34,880
Speaker 7: It's unclear right now. The wording that I saw was

3480
03:02:34,959 --> 03:02:37,039
Speaker 7: so ambiguous that I think it could be anything.

3481
03:02:37,120 --> 03:02:37,880
Speaker 5: But I don't know.

3482
03:02:38,720 --> 03:02:40,200
Speaker 7: And this is I think one of the things it's

3483
03:02:40,240 --> 03:02:43,600
Speaker 7: not clear that they know right now, right Like, it's

3484
03:02:43,640 --> 03:02:45,840
Speaker 7: all just really really up in the air. What the

3485
03:02:45,879 --> 03:02:47,200
Speaker 7: fuck this is going to turn into or if this

3486
03:02:47,280 --> 03:02:49,560
Speaker 7: is even going to turn into anything. We had that

3487
03:02:49,720 --> 03:02:52,400
Speaker 7: whole at the beginning of Pride. The FBI was like, hey,

3488
03:02:52,520 --> 03:02:56,879
Speaker 7: you can report like doctors doing like trans healthcare here

3489
03:02:57,040 --> 03:02:59,600
Speaker 7: to things. Yeah, and some of these have not really

3490
03:02:59,640 --> 03:03:03,279
Speaker 7: turned into anything yet. The anti Wolk FBI soliciting tips

3491
03:03:03,320 --> 03:03:06,400
Speaker 7: for people providing trends healthcare. Yeah, yeah, so, like I

3492
03:03:06,400 --> 03:03:09,760
Speaker 7: don't know, we'll put a pin in that one to

3493
03:03:09,840 --> 03:03:12,000
Speaker 7: see if some fucking horrible stuff happens out of the

3494
03:03:12,080 --> 03:03:14,560
Speaker 7: out of there. That's you know, one of the next

3495
03:03:15,600 --> 03:03:18,520
Speaker 7: gian anti trans things that they're doing, as all of

3496
03:03:18,560 --> 03:03:22,240
Speaker 7: the anti immregrant stuff happens, as they fucking make vaccines illegal.

3497
03:03:22,480 --> 03:03:25,680
Speaker 5: Like it's so much of the trends dust specifically is

3498
03:03:25,760 --> 03:03:27,720
Speaker 5: like just the chilling effect that it's trying to scare

3499
03:03:27,760 --> 03:03:30,680
Speaker 5: people away from providing people with the health care that

3500
03:03:30,720 --> 03:03:34,000
Speaker 5: they need to live fulfillian lives. And it's working.

3501
03:03:34,360 --> 03:03:35,920
Speaker 7: Like there are there are lots of clinics that have

3502
03:03:36,040 --> 03:03:39,120
Speaker 7: like fucking stopped and if you if you are one

3503
03:03:39,160 --> 03:03:40,480
Speaker 7: of the people at these clinics.

3504
03:03:40,240 --> 03:03:43,080
Speaker 5: Fuck you eat shit well. And I think that is

3505
03:03:43,120 --> 03:03:44,720
Speaker 5: where people can apply pressure.

3506
03:03:44,400 --> 03:03:46,560
Speaker 7: To Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I was gonna say, yeah,

3507
03:03:46,560 --> 03:03:48,039
Speaker 7: it's like there have been protests.

3508
03:03:48,120 --> 03:03:50,160
Speaker 5: You're not going to change the mind of the Trump

3509
03:03:50,160 --> 03:03:52,800
Speaker 5: administration on this topic at this point, but you can

3510
03:03:52,879 --> 03:03:55,160
Speaker 5: apply pressure to people who are feeling like they're too

3511
03:03:55,480 --> 03:03:57,480
Speaker 5: they're too scared to actually provide healthcare, and they can

3512
03:03:57,520 --> 03:03:59,840
Speaker 5: be reminded that no it is their duty to provide

3513
03:04:00,000 --> 03:04:00,840
Speaker 5: people with healthcare.

3514
03:04:01,120 --> 03:04:04,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, And and people have successfully gotten clinics to start

3515
03:04:04,320 --> 03:04:06,959
Speaker 7: to restart like transalth go for kids by just going

3516
03:04:06,959 --> 03:04:10,200
Speaker 7: out and protesting. This is also just like if you're

3517
03:04:11,320 --> 03:04:15,800
Speaker 7: I don't know, you're in like a blue city and

3518
03:04:16,200 --> 03:04:19,160
Speaker 7: you don't know immigrants, and you're like, I want to

3519
03:04:19,200 --> 03:04:21,440
Speaker 7: do a protest, this is the thing you can do.

3520
03:04:21,600 --> 03:04:23,360
Speaker 7: You can find there's one in Chicago right now that

3521
03:04:23,400 --> 03:04:25,120
Speaker 7: I'm blanking on the name of where there's a bunch

3522
03:04:25,120 --> 03:04:27,720
Speaker 7: of protests. Yeah, but like you can find the clinics

3523
03:04:27,760 --> 03:04:29,080
Speaker 7: that are refusing to do this and you can go

3524
03:04:29,200 --> 03:04:31,760
Speaker 7: fucking protest them, and this can and will work.

3525
03:04:32,240 --> 03:04:34,760
Speaker 1: We've spoken on the show before to healthcare workers who

3526
03:04:34,840 --> 03:04:39,440
Speaker 1: are like very dedicated to keeping the provision of gender

3527
03:04:39,480 --> 03:04:42,000
Speaker 1: affirming care. So like you want to listen to more.

3528
03:04:42,040 --> 03:04:42,520
Speaker 4: You can hear that.

3529
03:04:42,640 --> 03:04:46,240
Speaker 5: Yah, you can hear how folks are organizing to retect that. Yeah.

3530
03:04:46,320 --> 03:04:48,720
Speaker 7: And all of those people are fucking heroes, even if

3531
03:04:48,720 --> 03:04:50,920
Speaker 7: they probably won't be remembered as such for a long time,

3532
03:04:51,080 --> 03:04:53,840
Speaker 7: but they are. And keep doing it and keep the

3533
03:04:53,920 --> 03:04:54,280
Speaker 7: fight up.

3534
03:04:54,560 --> 03:04:57,880
Speaker 5: Let's go and break and then return to finish up

3535
03:04:57,959 --> 03:05:14,080
Speaker 5: on an exciting piece of news. Hooray. Okay, we are back.

3536
03:05:15,520 --> 03:05:18,959
Speaker 5: So as usual, a massive, massive news dropped right after

3537
03:05:19,000 --> 03:05:23,360
Speaker 5: we finished recording last week's Executive Disobium, and that is

3538
03:05:23,640 --> 03:05:26,720
Speaker 5: the the Elon Musk Donald Trump breakup story got a

3539
03:05:26,800 --> 03:05:29,240
Speaker 5: lot more messy. So this is what we're gonna close on,

3540
03:05:29,520 --> 03:05:32,599
Speaker 5: possibly one of our last stinky Musk segments.

3541
03:05:32,400 --> 03:05:35,920
Speaker 1: But I fucking know it, Jesus Christ, We'll never forget you.

3542
03:05:36,040 --> 03:05:36,320
Speaker 7: Eat On.

3543
03:05:36,560 --> 03:05:38,680
Speaker 5: Oh uh miya, do you wanna do you wanna to

3544
03:05:38,680 --> 03:05:39,400
Speaker 5: start us off here?

3545
03:05:39,720 --> 03:05:42,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, let's let's start this off with. Okay, I have

3546
03:05:42,520 --> 03:05:46,279
Speaker 7: been seeing this has kind of stopped now that Elon

3547
03:05:46,320 --> 03:05:48,240
Speaker 7: has kind of like run crying back the Trump. But

3548
03:05:48,360 --> 03:05:50,160
Speaker 7: like we'll see, there was a there was a moment

3549
03:05:50,440 --> 03:05:52,600
Speaker 7: where a lot of the like like Matt and Glaciers,

3550
03:05:52,640 --> 03:05:54,360
Speaker 7: like a lot of the sort of like reasonable Democrats

3551
03:05:54,480 --> 03:05:56,480
Speaker 7: or whatever we're trying to be, like we should try

3552
03:05:56,520 --> 03:05:57,640
Speaker 7: to recruit Musk into the coulistion.

3553
03:05:57,800 --> 03:05:58,800
Speaker 5: That was a scary moment.

3554
03:05:58,959 --> 03:05:59,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I.

3555
03:05:59,680 --> 03:06:02,960
Speaker 7: Want reminds everyone this is the guy who did two

3556
03:06:03,760 --> 03:06:07,000
Speaker 7: Nazis saluted the inauguration two two of them. He did

3557
03:06:07,120 --> 03:06:09,120
Speaker 7: one and then he did a second one. People have

3558
03:06:09,160 --> 03:06:11,600
Speaker 7: forgotten that they also did the second NA, like Census

3559
03:06:11,640 --> 03:06:13,840
Speaker 7: administration came into office. He has spent this time destroying

3560
03:06:13,840 --> 03:06:16,800
Speaker 7: the federal government. He has spent this time terrorizing like

3561
03:06:16,920 --> 03:06:23,280
Speaker 7: government employees, just shutting down fucking important government institutions. Enormous

3562
03:06:23,360 --> 03:06:25,360
Speaker 7: numbers of people are going to die because of the

3563
03:06:25,440 --> 03:06:28,080
Speaker 7: things that he's done, like the shutting down to USAID

3564
03:06:28,240 --> 03:06:32,440
Speaker 7: and particularly like the vaccine programs, the ANTIHAV programs. You know,

3565
03:06:32,640 --> 03:06:34,280
Speaker 7: like he's just been doing all of the shift for

3566
03:06:34,360 --> 03:06:37,680
Speaker 7: this entire time, right, he has been just systematically looting

3567
03:06:37,760 --> 03:06:40,840
Speaker 7: and tearing apart anything in the US federal government that

3568
03:06:40,959 --> 03:06:45,119
Speaker 7: even can remotely do anything for a person from again,

3569
03:06:45,240 --> 03:06:48,879
Speaker 7: everything from like HIV prevention to like destroying a bunch

3570
03:06:48,920 --> 03:06:50,959
Speaker 7: of the apparatus that like figures out what the weather

3571
03:06:51,120 --> 03:06:53,560
Speaker 7: is going to be and tells you when storms are coming. Yeah,

3572
03:06:53,680 --> 03:06:54,680
Speaker 7: he has been fucking doing that.

3573
03:06:54,840 --> 03:06:57,560
Speaker 5: Well, like Mia, the weather is woke. You can't you

3574
03:06:57,600 --> 03:06:59,879
Speaker 5: can't forget the woke weather machines.

3575
03:07:00,120 --> 03:07:00,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

3576
03:07:01,160 --> 03:07:03,600
Speaker 5: I just had a meeting with the Southeast Alliance where

3577
03:07:03,600 --> 03:07:05,520
Speaker 5: we're deciding the weather for the next few weeks.

3578
03:07:06,000 --> 03:07:07,879
Speaker 7: Fucking God, make it less hot here.

3579
03:07:08,320 --> 03:07:12,760
Speaker 5: It's too fucking hot weather too hot. I know, well,

3580
03:07:12,840 --> 03:07:14,920
Speaker 5: we have to raise the temperature. It's all it's all

3581
03:07:14,959 --> 03:07:18,039
Speaker 5: part of the plan, large scale political planned, that's right,

3582
03:07:19,040 --> 03:07:22,320
Speaker 5: you get it, James, Yeah, the plan more heat, more riots.

3583
03:07:22,360 --> 03:07:25,520
Speaker 7: I don't know, that's right, Okay, it's it's also remembering

3584
03:07:25,560 --> 03:07:28,160
Speaker 7: that these two were very very close sort of like

3585
03:07:28,240 --> 03:07:30,240
Speaker 7: during this election cycle. Right, Trump was just straight up

3586
03:07:30,320 --> 03:07:32,680
Speaker 7: going first. Buddy was just I mean, she's just just

3587
03:07:32,800 --> 03:07:37,000
Speaker 7: like straight up in Philadelphia, like paying people to vote.

3588
03:07:37,280 --> 03:07:40,480
Speaker 5: Through these like raffles. Elon a Celon. Yeah, Elon was

3589
03:07:40,520 --> 03:07:42,000
Speaker 5: just like yeah, straight up doing these right.

3590
03:07:42,360 --> 03:07:44,160
Speaker 7: Trump just like did a tesla ad.

3591
03:07:44,879 --> 03:07:45,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3592
03:07:45,200 --> 03:07:47,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like he just did a tesla ad.

3593
03:07:48,840 --> 03:07:52,080
Speaker 1: They first, buddy has gotta gotta have each other's backs,

3594
03:07:52,120 --> 03:07:54,280
Speaker 1: you know, never say that again.

3595
03:07:54,920 --> 03:07:56,680
Speaker 7: So there had started to be a little bit of

3596
03:07:56,760 --> 03:08:00,800
Speaker 7: tension between them, like as the tariffs are mounted, because

3597
03:08:00,800 --> 03:08:03,240
Speaker 7: the tariffs are you know, not good for Elon and

3598
03:08:03,320 --> 03:08:05,000
Speaker 7: think things kind of came to a head when Elon

3599
03:08:05,120 --> 03:08:08,280
Speaker 7: tried to buy the Wisconsin Supreme Court election and just

3600
03:08:08,440 --> 03:08:10,800
Speaker 7: got his ass kicked harder than anyone I've ever seen

3601
03:08:11,480 --> 03:08:13,199
Speaker 7: get just absolutely thumped.

3602
03:08:13,520 --> 03:08:16,440
Speaker 5: And this is where the policy wonk sector of the

3603
03:08:16,560 --> 03:08:19,760
Speaker 5: right was starting to like side eye Elon and question

3604
03:08:19,959 --> 03:08:23,680
Speaker 5: his like yeah, yeah, invincibility, right, this this this this

3605
03:08:23,840 --> 03:08:26,200
Speaker 5: guy that can come in and like save the Republican Party,

3606
03:08:26,280 --> 03:08:29,720
Speaker 5: can secure every future election. That's where that I like

3607
03:08:29,920 --> 03:08:32,240
Speaker 5: view of Elon started to really get called into question.

3608
03:08:32,440 --> 03:08:34,320
Speaker 5: Maybe this guy is kind of just a one hit wonder.

3609
03:08:34,920 --> 03:08:36,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, and and and you can also look at a

3610
03:08:36,800 --> 03:08:38,320
Speaker 7: lot of the stuff that was sort of happening here

3611
03:08:38,400 --> 03:08:44,160
Speaker 7: in terms of like she is staggeringly unpopular, right, everyone

3612
03:08:44,240 --> 03:08:47,920
Speaker 7: fucking hates him, and like the Number Party did a

3613
03:08:47,959 --> 03:08:50,400
Speaker 7: really bad job of this. But like just like the

3614
03:08:50,560 --> 03:08:53,800
Speaker 7: party's base and the Tesla protests were very effective and

3615
03:08:53,920 --> 03:08:56,080
Speaker 7: like negative polarizing opinion of him.

3616
03:08:56,120 --> 03:09:01,040
Speaker 5: Negative, people really really dislike him, Like worldwide, everyone hates it.

3617
03:09:01,280 --> 03:09:03,679
Speaker 7: She cost right wing parties.

3618
03:09:03,320 --> 03:09:07,120
Speaker 8: Elections and countries that like, yeah, he's never been taggering

3619
03:09:07,959 --> 03:09:12,400
Speaker 8: staggering like she she may have accidentally saved Germany from

3620
03:09:12,440 --> 03:09:13,800
Speaker 8: fascism for like a decade.

3621
03:09:15,360 --> 03:09:18,360
Speaker 5: It's very funny, you know, critical support to the to

3622
03:09:18,720 --> 03:09:21,760
Speaker 5: the fascist carmaker who saves Germany from fascism.

3623
03:09:21,959 --> 03:09:24,760
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, and then so okay, so we we've we've

3624
03:09:24,800 --> 03:09:27,160
Speaker 7: been coming up to like the end of his appointment

3625
03:09:27,240 --> 03:09:29,120
Speaker 7: as like a special What the fuck was the name

3626
03:09:29,120 --> 03:09:30,520
Speaker 7: of the term special government employee?

3627
03:09:30,680 --> 03:09:32,200
Speaker 5: H special government employe? Oh it was special. I was

3628
03:09:32,200 --> 03:09:32,600
Speaker 5: gonna say that.

3629
03:09:32,640 --> 03:09:34,640
Speaker 7: Then I was like, it can't be called special government employee.

3630
03:09:34,680 --> 03:09:36,039
Speaker 5: We call it age.

3631
03:09:38,080 --> 03:09:38,280
Speaker 4: Ski.

3632
03:09:38,600 --> 03:09:42,520
Speaker 5: Okay, well, James, you can't say that. No, no, you can't.

3633
03:09:42,560 --> 03:09:43,439
Speaker 1: I've been canceled.

3634
03:09:43,600 --> 03:09:45,480
Speaker 7: But there was always a question of like what exactly

3635
03:09:45,560 --> 03:09:47,080
Speaker 7: his role is going to be going forward once his

3636
03:09:47,160 --> 03:09:51,200
Speaker 7: time is a special government employee like ran out, but

3637
03:09:51,280 --> 03:09:58,800
Speaker 7: then he leaves with Stephen Miller's wife. So, as we

3638
03:09:58,920 --> 03:10:02,560
Speaker 7: reported a previous episode, but the final break came over

3639
03:10:02,600 --> 03:10:06,120
Speaker 7: the weekend over the budget, big beautiful budget, and Elon

3640
03:10:06,240 --> 03:10:09,560
Speaker 7: has been pissed off at this budget for like a while,

3641
03:10:10,800 --> 03:10:13,879
Speaker 7: and over the weekend he finally starts straight up doing

3642
03:10:14,040 --> 03:10:16,120
Speaker 7: like kill the budget posting and telling people to like

3643
03:10:16,160 --> 03:10:18,040
Speaker 7: call their senators to kill the budget instead of just

3644
03:10:18,080 --> 03:10:21,320
Speaker 7: saying it's bad. And this is I think actually an

3645
03:10:21,320 --> 03:10:22,440
Speaker 7: important thing to note here, like.

3646
03:10:22,480 --> 03:10:25,680
Speaker 5: Like actively campaigning against the budget bill and yeah, yeah,

3647
03:10:25,840 --> 03:10:29,560
Speaker 5: which is essentially Trump's like core policy at this point.

3648
03:10:29,600 --> 03:10:31,720
Speaker 5: It's like the to the way to push through a

3649
03:10:31,760 --> 03:10:33,880
Speaker 5: whole bunch of the stuff that he can't just do

3650
03:10:34,080 --> 03:10:37,240
Speaker 5: himself as president. Yep, is just trojan horse through this

3651
03:10:37,320 --> 03:10:40,720
Speaker 5: budget bill. Yeah, and and and this gets too.

3652
03:10:40,760 --> 03:10:42,920
Speaker 7: I think something that's like a kind of important split

3653
03:10:43,000 --> 03:10:45,160
Speaker 7: in the Republican Party right now about this budget, which

3654
03:10:45,160 --> 03:10:47,800
Speaker 7: is that like Musk is a is a budget deficit

3655
03:10:47,879 --> 03:10:50,360
Speaker 7: true believer, right, Like yes, he and his guls are

3656
03:10:50,400 --> 03:10:54,120
Speaker 7: trying to destroy the federal government because like ideologically they

3657
03:10:54,160 --> 03:10:56,280
Speaker 7: don't think it should really exist except for like as

3658
03:10:56,320 --> 03:10:57,800
Speaker 7: a tool to hand the money, as a tool to

3659
03:10:57,879 --> 03:11:01,000
Speaker 7: like shoot people who they don't like. But he is

3660
03:11:01,280 --> 03:11:03,800
Speaker 7: part of this cadra of tech people. And this is

3661
03:11:03,920 --> 03:11:05,600
Speaker 7: very very common in these tech circles, and you see

3662
03:11:05,600 --> 03:11:08,200
Speaker 7: that in some finance circles of these people who believe

3663
03:11:08,240 --> 03:11:10,840
Speaker 7: that the US is about to like enter like the

3664
03:11:10,959 --> 03:11:14,440
Speaker 7: super Great Depression because the the amount of the GDP

3665
03:11:14,680 --> 03:11:17,720
Speaker 7: being spent on debt payments is too high, and so

3666
03:11:17,840 --> 03:11:20,200
Speaker 7: they think if they don't like stop this right now.

3667
03:11:20,360 --> 03:11:21,880
Speaker 7: And this is partially why they are trying to like

3668
03:11:22,040 --> 03:11:24,760
Speaker 7: crash the economy, because they thought that if you crash

3669
03:11:24,840 --> 03:11:26,640
Speaker 7: the economy and you did all this terrift stuff or

3670
03:11:26,680 --> 03:11:27,320
Speaker 7: like whatever.

3671
03:11:27,720 --> 03:11:30,480
Speaker 5: It would it would decrease the cost of of US borrowing.

3672
03:11:30,800 --> 03:11:32,600
Speaker 7: Now that didn't happen, right, The interest rates of the

3673
03:11:32,640 --> 03:11:35,440
Speaker 7: bond shot up because everyone was like, holy fuck, these

3674
03:11:35,600 --> 03:11:38,360
Speaker 7: like absolute maniacs aren't gonna pay their debt, so you know,

3675
03:11:38,520 --> 03:11:40,840
Speaker 7: none of the shit is working. But they are like

3676
03:11:41,000 --> 03:11:43,560
Speaker 7: true believers on this yeah right, And this is again,

3677
03:11:43,640 --> 03:11:45,640
Speaker 7: this is very very very common in tech circles, like

3678
03:11:45,640 --> 03:11:48,560
Speaker 7: these people who like are are really like, oh God,

3679
03:11:48,600 --> 03:11:51,320
Speaker 7: the US is gonna die unless we like yeah, like

3680
03:11:51,520 --> 03:11:54,000
Speaker 7: unless we start just like destroying the national debt.

3681
03:11:54,120 --> 03:11:57,800
Speaker 5: And the whole DOGE idea is built around like terminal

3682
03:11:57,879 --> 03:12:01,520
Speaker 5: tech brain and it's it's it's trying to apply the

3683
03:12:01,720 --> 03:12:05,600
Speaker 5: logic of these like startups that are kind of scams,

3684
03:12:05,959 --> 03:12:08,720
Speaker 5: but trying to apply the logic of startups to an

3685
03:12:08,840 --> 03:12:12,640
Speaker 5: entire government. And there was an interview NPR this week

3686
03:12:12,959 --> 03:12:15,720
Speaker 5: where they talked to a DOGE employee. Oh yeah, he

3687
03:12:15,800 --> 03:12:18,720
Speaker 5: has an ex DOGE employee, and NPR asked about how

3688
03:12:18,800 --> 03:12:22,360
Speaker 5: much fraud and abuse they were actually able to find,

3689
03:12:22,760 --> 03:12:25,240
Speaker 5: and he said, quote, I did not find the federal

3690
03:12:25,280 --> 03:12:28,120
Speaker 5: government to be rife with waste, fraud and abuse. I

3691
03:12:28,240 --> 03:12:30,720
Speaker 5: was expecting some more easy wins. I was hoping for

3692
03:12:30,800 --> 03:12:33,200
Speaker 5: opportunity to cut waste, fraud and abuse, and I do

3693
03:12:33,320 --> 03:12:35,760
Speaker 5: believe that there is a lot of waste, there's minimal

3694
03:12:35,840 --> 03:12:39,440
Speaker 5: amounts of fraud and abuse to me feels relatively nonexistent.

3695
03:12:39,760 --> 03:12:41,959
Speaker 5: And the reason is, I think we have a bias

3696
03:12:42,040 --> 03:12:44,320
Speaker 5: as people coming from the tech industry where we worked

3697
03:12:44,360 --> 03:12:47,320
Speaker 5: at companies you know, such as Google, Facebook, these companies

3698
03:12:47,360 --> 03:12:49,680
Speaker 5: that have plenty of money, are funded by investors and

3699
03:12:49,800 --> 03:12:53,640
Speaker 5: have lots of people kind of sitting around and doing nothinguote.

3700
03:12:54,120 --> 03:12:56,000
Speaker 5: So his idea that the government must be full of

3701
03:12:56,120 --> 03:12:58,640
Speaker 5: like fraud and abuse is because that's just how tech

3702
03:12:58,720 --> 03:13:02,080
Speaker 5: companies work, and that the government works the same as

3703
03:13:02,080 --> 03:13:04,040
Speaker 5: a tech company. Yeah, and I think Elon have views

3704
03:13:04,160 --> 03:13:06,320
Speaker 5: this the exact same way. That's why he was doing

3705
03:13:06,720 --> 03:13:09,640
Speaker 5: his like Twitter takeover stuff to the government. Yeah, is

3706
03:13:09,800 --> 03:13:12,039
Speaker 5: he believed that's how it actually functions, and it doesn't.

3707
03:13:12,120 --> 03:13:15,400
Speaker 5: That's not really how the federal gureacracy functions. Like these

3708
03:13:15,400 --> 03:13:17,360
Speaker 5: people have just like eaten the fucking kool aid, right,

3709
03:13:17,440 --> 03:13:21,280
Speaker 5: Like none of the Republicans actually believed that like the

3710
03:13:21,440 --> 03:13:24,360
Speaker 5: US like economy functions like a pocketbook, Like none of

3711
03:13:24,360 --> 03:13:26,720
Speaker 5: them believe that you're because it's not true, right, Like

3712
03:13:26,800 --> 03:13:29,400
Speaker 5: you don't print your own money, so of course the

3713
03:13:29,480 --> 03:13:31,600
Speaker 5: US government doesn't find it like a pocketbook. But like,

3714
03:13:32,040 --> 03:13:34,119
Speaker 5: this is the generation of people where like the people

3715
03:13:34,160 --> 03:13:37,560
Speaker 5: who are just so absolutely pilled on the ideology have

3716
03:13:37,720 --> 03:13:40,879
Speaker 5: taken over. But on the other hand, there is Trump,

3717
03:13:41,000 --> 03:13:43,640
Speaker 5: and Trump doesn't give off fuck about any of this, right, Like,

3718
03:13:44,040 --> 03:13:46,880
Speaker 5: the faction that Trump here is representing is the faction

3719
03:13:47,000 --> 03:13:49,560
Speaker 5: of capitalists who just wants tax cuts. You don't give

3720
03:13:49,560 --> 03:13:52,640
Speaker 5: off fuck about like all of this weird tech brain stuff.

3721
03:13:52,840 --> 03:13:56,920
Speaker 7: Like they elected Trump with the mandate of handing them

3722
03:13:56,959 --> 03:13:59,560
Speaker 7: trillions of dollars in these formuli tax cuts, and that's

3723
03:13:59,560 --> 03:14:01,840
Speaker 7: all they can about. And we're getting a giant conflict

3724
03:14:01,879 --> 03:14:04,800
Speaker 7: between them because as much as Trump has just sort

3725
03:14:04,800 --> 03:14:06,760
Speaker 7: of been like lying about the budget numbers or whatever

3726
03:14:06,800 --> 03:14:09,959
Speaker 7: the fuck, if you're one of these actual budget off people,

3727
03:14:09,959 --> 03:14:11,280
Speaker 7: you can just look at the budget and go, this

3728
03:14:11,440 --> 03:14:13,560
Speaker 7: is going to increase the debt by like two trillion

3729
03:14:13,560 --> 03:14:17,800
Speaker 7: dollars or whatever the fuck, right, And it's revealed a

3730
03:14:17,840 --> 03:14:19,640
Speaker 7: sort of pre existing source of tension inside of the

3731
03:14:19,680 --> 03:14:22,360
Speaker 7: base between the sort of tech people and a lot

3732
03:14:22,400 --> 03:14:24,200
Speaker 7: of the rest of sectors are capital which aren't as

3733
03:14:24,240 --> 03:14:28,960
Speaker 7: ideologically pilled. So let's get into all of the actual

3734
03:14:29,080 --> 03:14:32,800
Speaker 7: shit because it's very funny. So Business Insider put together

3735
03:14:32,840 --> 03:14:34,680
Speaker 7: a really good minute by minute timeline if you want

3736
03:14:34,720 --> 03:14:36,440
Speaker 7: to do that. I'm not going through this shit minute

3737
03:14:36,440 --> 03:14:36,840
Speaker 7: by minute.

3738
03:14:37,120 --> 03:14:38,400
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna go through minute by minute.

3739
03:14:38,400 --> 03:14:38,600
Speaker 4: I am.

3740
03:14:38,720 --> 03:14:41,760
Speaker 5: I am going to go through tweet by tweet. Tweets.

3741
03:14:42,360 --> 03:14:44,920
Speaker 5: We have to talk about the tweets. The first time

3742
03:14:45,200 --> 03:14:48,760
Speaker 5: I've ever really wanted to say that they're so good. Yeah,

3743
03:14:48,959 --> 03:14:51,680
Speaker 5: the first big tweet, and this was, you know, amongst

3744
03:14:51,959 --> 03:14:55,000
Speaker 5: Elon crashing out about the budget bill and talking about

3745
03:14:55,040 --> 03:14:59,000
Speaker 5: how he's going to cancel certain SpaceX SpaceX projects. But

3746
03:14:59,120 --> 03:15:02,520
Speaker 5: the first big tweet from Elon was time to drop

3747
03:15:02,760 --> 03:15:05,960
Speaker 5: the really big bomb at real Donald Trump is in

3748
03:15:06,120 --> 03:15:09,320
Speaker 5: the Epstein files. That is the real reason they have

3749
03:15:09,400 --> 03:15:12,320
Speaker 5: not been made public. Have a nice day, Donald J. Trump.

3750
03:15:13,040 --> 03:15:15,080
Speaker 5: Mark this place. In the future, the truth will come out.

3751
03:15:15,760 --> 03:15:18,640
Speaker 5: So this is the really big one, as Elon says,

3752
03:15:18,760 --> 03:15:19,680
Speaker 5: the really big Bob.

3753
03:15:20,640 --> 03:15:24,800
Speaker 7: I actually think this, in the long run could be

3754
03:15:24,920 --> 03:15:27,800
Speaker 7: one of the most important aspects of this entire fight,

3755
03:15:28,400 --> 03:15:32,840
Speaker 7: because the right is incredibly conspiracy brained. They've all been

3756
03:15:32,920 --> 03:15:35,360
Speaker 7: like hyped up on this, like Epstein pill shit, and

3757
03:15:35,520 --> 03:15:38,160
Speaker 7: like specifically on like the Trump's gonna release Epstein files

3758
03:15:38,160 --> 03:15:41,160
Speaker 7: and show all the Democrats, right, but they've always had

3759
03:15:41,240 --> 03:15:43,760
Speaker 7: like the psychological block about talking about the fact that

3760
03:15:43,879 --> 03:15:48,000
Speaker 7: like Trump and Epstein are the most connected motherfuckers anyone's

3761
03:15:48,000 --> 03:15:48,280
Speaker 7: ever been.

3762
03:15:48,480 --> 03:15:49,160
Speaker 5: I'm gonna read this.

3763
03:15:49,360 --> 03:15:52,279
Speaker 7: There's a very famous quote from a New York magazine

3764
03:15:52,320 --> 03:15:54,160
Speaker 7: article that's like Trump talking to a bunch of people

3765
03:15:54,959 --> 03:15:59,080
Speaker 7: at like a meeting. Quote I've known jeff for fifteen years,

3766
03:15:59,240 --> 03:16:02,400
Speaker 7: terrific guide, Trump booms from a speakerphone. He's a lot

3767
03:16:02,440 --> 03:16:04,880
Speaker 7: of fun to be with. It is even said that

3768
03:16:04,959 --> 03:16:07,120
Speaker 7: he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and

3769
03:16:07,240 --> 03:16:09,119
Speaker 7: many of them are on the younger side, no doubt

3770
03:16:09,120 --> 03:16:11,800
Speaker 7: about it. Jeffrey enjoys his social life so like he

3771
03:16:12,080 --> 03:16:15,880
Speaker 7: knew right he was trans ages, Yeah, some two doesn't two,

3772
03:16:16,720 --> 03:16:19,039
Speaker 7: Like he's He's on Epstein's fucking.

3773
03:16:18,920 --> 03:16:22,520
Speaker 5: Plain like he is, like everyone know exists, right, Like

3774
03:16:22,560 --> 03:16:24,920
Speaker 5: everyone except everyone knows this, right, everyone except for like

3775
03:16:25,000 --> 03:16:28,800
Speaker 5: the weirdo QAnon right understands this, And some of the

3776
03:16:28,879 --> 03:16:30,960
Speaker 5: young on people try to justify this as being like no,

3777
03:16:31,080 --> 03:16:33,040
Speaker 5: Trump was like you know, a deep mold, a deep

3778
03:16:33,160 --> 03:16:35,880
Speaker 5: plant who got in close with with Epstein, so that

3779
03:16:36,080 --> 03:16:39,440
Speaker 5: we could eventually round up and arrest all the Democrat pedophiles. Right,

3780
03:16:39,440 --> 03:16:41,080
Speaker 5: that's what they try to justify it. But now that

3781
03:16:41,240 --> 03:16:44,440
Speaker 5: that sort of like specific Q and on logic doesn't

3782
03:16:44,480 --> 03:16:47,520
Speaker 5: really exist as much on the right anymore. Yeah, Now

3783
03:16:47,600 --> 03:16:50,160
Speaker 5: people just like memory hole, especially the right, they just

3784
03:16:50,240 --> 03:16:53,080
Speaker 5: memory hole that like Trump and Epstein were best buddies.

3785
03:16:53,320 --> 03:16:55,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, and like and and this is the thing, it's

3786
03:16:55,040 --> 03:16:56,840
Speaker 7: been impossible. We'll talk about on the right, you just

3787
03:16:56,879 --> 03:17:00,800
Speaker 7: can't do it right. Yeah, And suddenly on Musk, who

3788
03:17:00,920 --> 03:17:04,440
Speaker 7: is a guy who like is capable of shifting what

3789
03:17:04,560 --> 03:17:08,160
Speaker 7: right wing discourse is, It's suddenly like, yeah, this guy's

3790
03:17:08,160 --> 03:17:08,680
Speaker 7: a pedophile.

3791
03:17:09,040 --> 03:17:09,920
Speaker 5: I want to read this.

3792
03:17:10,160 --> 03:17:13,280
Speaker 7: This, this post that Trump made has response to this, right,

3793
03:17:14,000 --> 03:17:16,720
Speaker 7: I missed this when this happens. I've only seen this

3794
03:17:16,800 --> 03:17:19,960
Speaker 7: in the business inside of reporting, so on truth social

3795
03:17:20,240 --> 03:17:24,480
Speaker 7: Trump's response to this was to post it or to

3796
03:17:25,000 --> 03:17:25,760
Speaker 7: truth truth.

3797
03:17:25,840 --> 03:17:26,120
Speaker 5: Thank you.

3798
03:17:27,879 --> 03:17:32,760
Speaker 7: Of David Shoon, who tweeted this quote. I was hired

3799
03:17:32,760 --> 03:17:35,640
Speaker 7: to lead Jeffrey f Stein's defense as his criminal lawyer

3800
03:17:35,840 --> 03:17:38,720
Speaker 7: nine days before he died. He sought my advice for

3801
03:17:38,879 --> 03:17:43,520
Speaker 7: months before that. I can authoritatively, unequivocally and definitively say

3802
03:17:43,600 --> 03:17:47,400
Speaker 7: he has no information to hurt President Trump. I specifically

3803
03:17:47,520 --> 03:17:48,160
Speaker 7: asked him.

3804
03:17:48,120 --> 03:17:49,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, that sounds legit.

3805
03:17:49,360 --> 03:17:52,560
Speaker 7: This is one of the most unhinged posts I have

3806
03:17:52,959 --> 03:17:53,720
Speaker 7: ever seen.

3807
03:17:54,400 --> 03:17:56,840
Speaker 5: This genuinely, this is this is not a joke.

3808
03:17:56,920 --> 03:17:59,880
Speaker 7: If you if you are a fucking poster and you

3809
03:18:00,000 --> 03:18:03,040
Speaker 7: you are like, what can my contribution to like the

3810
03:18:03,160 --> 03:18:07,280
Speaker 7: future of democracy be? You need to push this shit

3811
03:18:07,680 --> 03:18:10,680
Speaker 7: into the unhinged like fucking like the depths of like

3812
03:18:10,800 --> 03:18:13,400
Speaker 7: fucking eight chan right like into into like the fucking

3813
03:18:13,520 --> 03:18:16,080
Speaker 7: breeding layers of the most unhinged right wing spaces in

3814
03:18:16,120 --> 03:18:18,960
Speaker 7: the world. You need to be going in and just

3815
03:18:19,120 --> 03:18:22,120
Speaker 7: injecting this shit straight into their fucking brains. You you

3816
03:18:22,320 --> 03:18:25,199
Speaker 7: need to be like like just like just just hyping

3817
03:18:25,280 --> 03:18:29,080
Speaker 7: them up on the most unhinged conspiracies about Trump being

3818
03:18:29,600 --> 03:18:33,000
Speaker 7: like a fucking like being a fucking Epstein guy, because

3819
03:18:34,000 --> 03:18:38,400
Speaker 7: this is completely unhinged, Like what do you mean. His

3820
03:18:38,600 --> 03:18:42,280
Speaker 7: defense lawyer, who was hired nine days before he died,

3821
03:18:42,879 --> 03:18:46,120
Speaker 7: is supposed to have specifically asked him about Trump and

3822
03:18:46,280 --> 03:18:48,640
Speaker 7: the and Trump's response to being called a pedophile is

3823
03:18:48,640 --> 03:18:51,520
Speaker 7: to go to this guy fucking inject that shit into

3824
03:18:51,600 --> 03:18:54,200
Speaker 7: right wing discourse. We know four Chan does this the

3825
03:18:54,280 --> 03:18:56,200
Speaker 7: leftist discourse all the time and injects like the worst

3826
03:18:56,200 --> 03:18:58,000
Speaker 7: discourses of all time, fucking do it to them.

3827
03:18:59,400 --> 03:19:01,360
Speaker 5: It is odd how this was really the first thing

3828
03:19:01,400 --> 03:19:04,560
Speaker 5: that breaks through this block. On the right, you had

3829
03:19:04,840 --> 03:19:08,440
Speaker 5: Alex Jones like freaking out on Twitter being quote, God

3830
03:19:08,640 --> 03:19:13,360
Speaker 5: help us all ye oh yay, Kanye was freaking out.

3831
03:19:13,520 --> 03:19:16,240
Speaker 5: Cat Turn was crashing out on the timeline. It was

3832
03:19:16,320 --> 03:19:19,800
Speaker 5: really bizarre. Trump's immediate response was saying, quote, I don't

3833
03:19:19,879 --> 03:19:22,640
Speaker 5: mind Elon turning against me, but he should have done

3834
03:19:22,680 --> 03:19:24,600
Speaker 5: so months ago. This is one of the greatest bills

3835
03:19:24,640 --> 03:19:27,200
Speaker 5: ever presented to Congress, and then goes on to talk

3836
03:19:27,240 --> 03:19:29,360
Speaker 5: about how great the bill is.

3837
03:19:30,360 --> 03:19:30,880
Speaker 7: It's wild.

3838
03:19:31,040 --> 03:19:35,840
Speaker 5: You had Ian Miles Chong tweeting about Elon versus the

3839
03:19:35,920 --> 03:19:38,400
Speaker 5: president who will win my money is on Elon Trump

3840
03:19:38,400 --> 03:19:41,400
Speaker 5: should be impeached and Jadvan should replace him with Elon

3841
03:19:41,520 --> 03:19:48,440
Speaker 5: Musk boosting this claim saying yes, yeah.

3842
03:19:48,320 --> 03:19:50,400
Speaker 1: It's pretty good. It says pretty funny.

3843
03:19:50,959 --> 03:19:55,320
Speaker 5: Something that's extremely indicative of the current cultural moment that

3844
03:19:55,440 --> 03:19:58,720
Speaker 5: we are at is during this spat, when when things

3845
03:19:58,840 --> 03:20:03,400
Speaker 5: really broke out on on Twitter and truth social During

3846
03:20:03,560 --> 03:20:06,440
Speaker 5: during this spat, both the Vice President of the United

3847
03:20:06,480 --> 03:20:08,840
Speaker 5: States and the director of the FBI were on two

3848
03:20:08,959 --> 03:20:13,040
Speaker 5: separate podcasts and got to live react to this.

3849
03:20:14,760 --> 03:20:15,760
Speaker 1: That's very funny.

3850
03:20:16,000 --> 03:20:19,000
Speaker 5: Unfortunately, I am going to play the clip. I will

3851
03:20:19,080 --> 03:20:24,000
Speaker 5: start with JD. Vance reacting live on a podcast by

3852
03:20:24,160 --> 03:20:25,760
Speaker 5: someone named THEO Vaughn.

3853
03:20:26,200 --> 03:20:28,760
Speaker 11: Here here's here's my basic reaction to like all this

3854
03:20:28,840 --> 03:20:33,960
Speaker 11: stuff is luck. First of all, like absolutely not. Donald

3855
03:20:33,959 --> 03:20:37,080
Speaker 11: Trump didn't do anything wrong with Jeffrey Epstein. Like there's

3856
03:20:37,920 --> 03:20:41,320
Speaker 11: the guy is whatever the Democrats in the media says

3857
03:20:41,320 --> 03:20:44,360
Speaker 11: about him, that's totally bs. Here here's my basic my

3858
03:20:44,480 --> 03:20:46,600
Speaker 11: basic read on it. First of all, I'm the vice

3859
03:20:46,640 --> 03:20:48,920
Speaker 11: president's President Trump. My loyalties are always going to.

3860
03:20:48,920 --> 03:20:49,560
Speaker 5: Be with the President.

3861
03:20:50,200 --> 03:20:54,280
Speaker 11: And I think that Elon, he's an incredible entrepreneur. He's

3862
03:20:54,320 --> 03:20:56,680
Speaker 11: actually done I think does was really good. This sort

3863
03:20:56,720 --> 03:20:59,240
Speaker 11: of effort to root out waste fraud abuse in our

3864
03:20:59,280 --> 03:21:02,480
Speaker 11: country is really good good And and look, man, I'm

3865
03:21:02,600 --> 03:21:04,680
Speaker 11: always going to be loyal to the President, and I

3866
03:21:04,800 --> 03:21:07,720
Speaker 11: hope that eventually Elon kind of comes back into the fold.

3867
03:21:08,200 --> 03:21:11,119
Speaker 11: Maybe that's not possible now because he's gone so nuclear.

3868
03:21:11,400 --> 03:21:14,400
Speaker 7: I hope it is, do you know why?

3869
03:21:14,680 --> 03:21:14,880
Speaker 4: Yeah?

3870
03:21:14,959 --> 03:21:18,400
Speaker 5: I mean so, look, I think number one.

3871
03:21:19,080 --> 03:21:22,160
Speaker 11: Elon's new to politics, right, So part of it is

3872
03:21:22,600 --> 03:21:25,400
Speaker 11: this guy got into politics and it has suffered a

3873
03:21:25,440 --> 03:21:28,680
Speaker 11: lot for it. But I mean, I and I get

3874
03:21:28,959 --> 03:21:31,200
Speaker 11: the frustration there, and I get the frustration that. I mean, look,

3875
03:21:31,560 --> 03:21:34,800
Speaker 11: Congress got the spending bill, but the main purpose of

3876
03:21:34,840 --> 03:21:37,240
Speaker 11: the bill is not actually spending or cutting spending, though

3877
03:21:37,240 --> 03:21:39,440
Speaker 11: it does cut a lot of spending. The main purpose

3878
03:21:39,480 --> 03:21:41,400
Speaker 11: of the bill is to prevent the biggest tax increase.

3879
03:21:41,680 --> 03:21:43,440
Speaker 11: But I understand, like it's a good bill, it's not

3880
03:21:43,520 --> 03:21:46,440
Speaker 11: a perfect bill. Like the process in DC. If you're

3881
03:21:46,480 --> 03:21:48,680
Speaker 11: a business leader, you probably get frustrated with that process

3882
03:21:48,800 --> 03:21:51,680
Speaker 11: because it's more you know, bureaucratic, it's more slow moving.

3883
03:21:52,040 --> 03:21:55,120
Speaker 11: So I think there's just some frustrations there. But I

3884
03:21:55,280 --> 03:21:57,280
Speaker 11: I really, man, I think it's a huge mistake for

3885
03:21:57,320 --> 03:21:59,320
Speaker 11: him to go after the president like that. And I

3886
03:21:59,640 --> 03:22:03,200
Speaker 11: think that if he and the president are in some

3887
03:22:03,360 --> 03:22:05,720
Speaker 11: blood feud, most importantly, it's going to be bad for

3888
03:22:05,800 --> 03:22:07,720
Speaker 11: the country. But I think it's gonna be I don't

3889
03:22:07,720 --> 03:22:08,960
Speaker 11: think it's gonna be good for eeln either.

3890
03:22:10,040 --> 03:22:14,120
Speaker 5: So that's jd Vance's reaction to this. He eventually got

3891
03:22:14,160 --> 03:22:16,360
Speaker 5: put onto like damage control. We'll talk about that in

3892
03:22:16,440 --> 03:22:20,240
Speaker 5: a sec What is more interesting to me is Cash

3893
03:22:20,320 --> 03:22:23,440
Speaker 5: Pattel's reaction, because Patel's been taking fire from the right

3894
03:22:23,640 --> 03:22:27,280
Speaker 5: for being a little bit soft on the promise of

3895
03:22:27,360 --> 03:22:31,080
Speaker 5: releasing the full Epstein files, trying to downplay the extent

3896
03:22:31,160 --> 03:22:33,360
Speaker 5: of the files and say there's really nothing in there

3897
03:22:33,440 --> 03:22:36,480
Speaker 5: that's super notable. And this has gotten him in trouble

3898
03:22:36,520 --> 03:22:39,840
Speaker 5: because him and people like Dan Bongino have for years

3899
03:22:40,120 --> 03:22:42,920
Speaker 5: made a living out of talking about how the Epstein

3900
03:22:42,959 --> 03:22:46,240
Speaker 5: files is going to ruin the Democratic Party. They have

3901
03:22:46,320 --> 03:22:48,320
Speaker 5: all of this evidence, all this footage, and now that

3902
03:22:48,400 --> 03:22:51,000
Speaker 5: these guys are in power, they're simply not talking about

3903
03:22:51,040 --> 03:22:53,160
Speaker 5: this issue. And this has got some of the Q

3904
03:22:53,320 --> 03:22:56,880
Speaker 5: and on right upset, and Cash Ptel's reaction to this

3905
03:22:57,200 --> 03:23:02,440
Speaker 5: is frankly baffling. I'm not participating in that conversation.

3906
03:23:03,640 --> 03:23:05,320
Speaker 4: Have a nice day, DD.

3907
03:23:05,520 --> 03:23:06,720
Speaker 5: So much takets fall away.

3908
03:23:06,560 --> 03:23:08,439
Speaker 4: There going back and forth about different things.

3909
03:23:08,280 --> 03:23:12,160
Speaker 7: And yeah, he said he was disappointing elon ye want

3910
03:23:12,200 --> 03:23:13,440
Speaker 7: to leave Jesus Christ.

3911
03:23:13,480 --> 03:23:15,520
Speaker 5: That's a crazy thing to say. How does he know?

3912
03:23:15,959 --> 03:23:18,080
Speaker 3: Does he know that Donald Trump is in the Epstein

3913
03:23:18,120 --> 03:23:19,680
Speaker 3: files or does he have access to them?

3914
03:23:20,440 --> 03:23:22,040
Speaker 5: I don't know how he would, but I'm just staying

3915
03:23:22,080 --> 03:23:23,880
Speaker 5: out of the trump elon thing.

3916
03:23:23,959 --> 03:23:25,160
Speaker 7: That's way outside of my life.

3917
03:23:25,440 --> 03:23:25,680
Speaker 1: Are they?

3918
03:23:26,920 --> 03:23:28,920
Speaker 5: I know my lane and that ain't What do you mean,

3919
03:23:29,000 --> 03:23:31,440
Speaker 5: isn't your lane? You're the director of the FBI, you

3920
03:23:31,480 --> 03:23:34,800
Speaker 5: are in charge of the Epstein files. This specifically is

3921
03:23:34,959 --> 03:23:39,119
Speaker 5: your lane. This, this one thing is actually your late

3922
03:23:39,520 --> 03:23:42,240
Speaker 5: it's unhinged. Oh my god.

3923
03:23:42,879 --> 03:23:44,520
Speaker 1: His big thing now is yes to wear a hunting

3924
03:23:44,600 --> 03:23:46,840
Speaker 1: camera all the time. I guess that says his new lane.

3925
03:23:47,320 --> 03:23:48,959
Speaker 5: So after the heat of this started to die down,

3926
03:23:49,040 --> 03:23:51,200
Speaker 5: you started to get more of the right to try to,

3927
03:23:51,480 --> 03:23:55,040
Speaker 5: I guess, soothe the tension. A lot of a lot

3928
03:23:55,040 --> 03:23:58,160
Speaker 5: of people trying to trying to talk about coming together.

3929
03:23:58,560 --> 03:24:00,600
Speaker 5: You had right wing commentators trying to frame this as

3930
03:24:00,920 --> 03:24:03,760
Speaker 5: two alpha males beefing, right, this is this is just

3931
03:24:03,840 --> 03:24:07,440
Speaker 5: how you just how alpha males be. We got We've

3932
03:24:07,440 --> 03:24:11,440
Speaker 5: got to quote some of these because Jack Pasovic famously said,

3933
03:24:11,959 --> 03:24:15,080
Speaker 5: some of y'all can't handle two high agency males going

3934
03:24:15,120 --> 03:24:18,720
Speaker 5: at it. And it really shows this is direct communication

3935
03:24:19,200 --> 03:24:25,000
Speaker 5: fallow centric versus indirect communication. Guy no centric, I understand

3936
03:24:25,160 --> 03:24:29,520
Speaker 5: you aren't used to it. Wonderful stuff from Pasovic. As usual.

3937
03:24:30,480 --> 03:24:33,040
Speaker 5: You also had our friends at the New Norm posting

3938
03:24:33,120 --> 03:24:37,000
Speaker 5: videos about trying to solve this dispute through a dancing competition.

3939
03:24:37,240 --> 03:24:37,879
Speaker 5: Roll the clip.

3940
03:24:41,760 --> 03:24:44,000
Speaker 4: Can't we all just get along?

3941
03:24:44,760 --> 03:24:49,600
Speaker 7: We've got to cook you to say, hey.

3942
03:24:49,480 --> 03:24:52,119
Speaker 5: I do find it odd that a lot of people's

3943
03:24:52,200 --> 03:24:56,160
Speaker 5: innate reaction after the heat died down was even if

3944
03:24:56,440 --> 03:24:59,840
Speaker 5: Elon Musk is semi credibly accusing the president of being

3945
03:24:59,879 --> 03:25:02,960
Speaker 5: a pedophile, can't we just all get along together? I

3946
03:25:03,000 --> 03:25:05,760
Speaker 5: don't know why we can't just get along? This is

3947
03:25:06,040 --> 03:25:10,440
Speaker 5: this is hurting the country. And Elon's like remark about

3948
03:25:10,520 --> 03:25:12,800
Speaker 5: Trump being in the files is in and of itself

3949
03:25:13,120 --> 03:25:15,960
Speaker 5: just kind of baffling from Elon's perspective, because he was

3950
03:25:16,160 --> 03:25:19,280
Speaker 5: bragging in tweets about how he is responsible for Trump

3951
03:25:19,360 --> 03:25:22,360
Speaker 5: being elected, and Trump was then having to respond to

3952
03:25:22,440 --> 03:25:25,000
Speaker 5: that by claiming that they would have won the election

3953
03:25:25,120 --> 03:25:28,039
Speaker 5: without Elon. But Elon was saying that without him, Trump

3954
03:25:28,040 --> 03:25:30,880
Speaker 5: would have lost the election right after he called him

3955
03:25:30,879 --> 03:25:34,480
Speaker 5: a pedophile, which is super interesting because it's essentially Musk

3956
03:25:34,560 --> 03:25:38,080
Speaker 5: saying I'm fine with making sure a pedophile gets elected president,

3957
03:25:38,240 --> 03:25:41,720
Speaker 5: but I draw the line at a bad spending bill. Yeah, Yeah,

3958
03:25:42,360 --> 03:25:45,959
Speaker 5: that's really what is too much for him. The implication

3959
03:25:46,160 --> 03:25:48,320
Speaker 5: is that if he didn't get essentially shafted from the

3960
03:25:48,320 --> 03:25:50,040
Speaker 5: White House, he just would have kept this a secret.

3961
03:25:50,080 --> 03:25:52,760
Speaker 5: And he's like okay with working with Trump otherwise except

3962
03:25:52,760 --> 03:25:55,320
Speaker 5: for the bad bill And maybe he's maybe he's butt

3963
03:25:55,400 --> 03:25:59,640
Speaker 5: heard about Trump threatening to terminate his governmental subsidies and contracts.

3964
03:26:00,320 --> 03:26:03,320
Speaker 5: But like, come on, elon, this is crazy.

3965
03:26:04,120 --> 03:26:07,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not the most well considered. It is fantastic

3966
03:26:07,440 --> 03:26:09,920
Speaker 1: that the richest man in the world is addicted to

3967
03:26:10,040 --> 03:26:13,680
Speaker 1: posting because we get some real we get some real banging.

3968
03:26:13,440 --> 03:26:15,879
Speaker 5: Posters, posters madness. It never never fails.

3969
03:26:15,959 --> 03:26:19,680
Speaker 7: I gotta say, though, Trump's posting response terrible. This guy

3970
03:26:19,720 --> 03:26:22,560
Speaker 7: has washed There's nothing there. He's fucking gone mentally like

3971
03:26:22,680 --> 03:26:25,000
Speaker 7: he could have fucking get like even twenty twenty. Trump

3972
03:26:25,120 --> 03:26:26,920
Speaker 7: just destroys him in one tweet like none of this

3973
03:26:27,080 --> 03:26:28,680
Speaker 7: is He's there's nothing left there.

3974
03:26:28,680 --> 03:26:33,400
Speaker 5: He's a shell. Now. They have now been making attempts

3975
03:26:33,480 --> 03:26:37,600
Speaker 5: to fold the team back together. It was reported recently

3976
03:26:37,720 --> 03:26:39,840
Speaker 5: that actually on Friday night, which was the day after

3977
03:26:40,040 --> 03:26:42,960
Speaker 5: this spat on unfolded on Twitter, but a Friday night

3978
03:26:43,080 --> 03:26:45,440
Speaker 5: jd Vance and White House chap of staff Susie Willis

3979
03:26:45,800 --> 03:26:49,920
Speaker 5: had a call with Elon to de escalate the conflict. Eventually,

3980
03:26:50,040 --> 03:26:53,279
Speaker 5: Elon has started deleting some of his more inflammatory tweets

3981
03:26:53,320 --> 03:26:58,120
Speaker 5: about the president coward and has now posted quote, I

3982
03:26:58,400 --> 03:27:01,840
Speaker 5: regret some of my posts about President Trump last week.

3983
03:27:02,040 --> 03:27:03,440
Speaker 5: They went too far.

3984
03:27:05,000 --> 03:27:06,960
Speaker 1: I said the thing that I wasn't supposed to say.

3985
03:27:07,200 --> 03:27:10,760
Speaker 5: So he got us stern talking to by Jade Vance,

3986
03:27:11,400 --> 03:27:14,720
Speaker 5: who is kind of caught in between Trump and Musk

3987
03:27:14,800 --> 03:27:18,080
Speaker 5: here but has stated that his loyalties will will always

3988
03:27:18,120 --> 03:27:20,600
Speaker 5: lie with the President. So yeah, that is the current

3989
03:27:20,680 --> 03:27:24,120
Speaker 5: state of the Musk and Trump fallout. It will not

3990
03:27:24,240 --> 03:27:26,640
Speaker 5: be able to go back to how it was, but

3991
03:27:26,879 --> 03:27:30,600
Speaker 5: they might try to play nice again. Yep, I think

3992
03:27:30,800 --> 03:27:33,480
Speaker 5: that does it for us here at it could happen here.

3993
03:27:34,400 --> 03:27:35,360
Speaker 5: We reported the news.

3994
03:27:36,440 --> 03:27:37,360
Speaker 1: We reported the news.

3995
03:27:43,680 --> 03:27:46,800
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3996
03:27:46,920 --> 03:27:48,760
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3997
03:27:49,560 --> 03:27:52,040
Speaker 12: It could happen here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3998
03:27:52,240 --> 03:27:55,280
Speaker 12: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3999
03:27:55,360 --> 03:27:57,920
Speaker 12: fool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

4000
03:27:57,959 --> 03:28:01,840
Speaker 12: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

4001
03:28:02,320 --> 03:28:04,240
Speaker 12: You can now find sources for it could happen here,

4002
03:28:04,280 --> 03:28:07,240
Speaker 12: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening,