WEBVTT - Apple's Abandoned Car and the Porsche Macan EV

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I'm Matt Miller and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is hot Pursuit.

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<v Speaker 2>Today. We have a really special guest that I'm excited

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<v Speaker 2>to talk to. It Normally, Hannah, you know, I'm in

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<v Speaker 2>New York, Hannah's in Los Angeles, and usually Mark German

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<v Speaker 2>is there with you. That's right, so he was. He's

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<v Speaker 2>in New York for I don't know, meetings, networking, whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>But also Apple has introduced this new phone. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's called the sixteen E. I don't really keep up

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<v Speaker 2>with the tech stuff too much unless I'm listening to Mark,

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<v Speaker 2>because he knows all of the inside information.

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<v Speaker 1>It's incredible. Mark German the chief tech correspondent, I think

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<v Speaker 1>his title is. I mean, he basically just reports on

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<v Speaker 1>Apple and Meta, but he is a fount of knowledge.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of unbelievable. And he I actually ahead of

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<v Speaker 1>this conversation. Re read this story that he wrote for

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<v Speaker 1>Business Week back in March of last year about how

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<v Speaker 1>Apple spent a billion dollars into the car that it

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<v Speaker 1>never built. Fascinating.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very cool. Are big take stories. It's a I

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<v Speaker 2>guess that's a brand that Bloomberg has so on the terminal,

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<v Speaker 2>you can type NI Big Take, but you can also

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<v Speaker 2>just search for the Bloomberg Big Take online. Yeah, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>so excited to have him on the program. I also

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<v Speaker 2>want to talk a little bit about a vehicle I'm driving.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we get these press vehicles and usually they're

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<v Speaker 2>the most exciting and expensive and coolest vehicles out there,

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<v Speaker 2>so that when I get like a normal everyday car,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't really think much of it. But Nissan has

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<v Speaker 2>given me a Frontier. It's there. You know, they're smaller

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<v Speaker 2>truck in America. I guess the mid sized truck.

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<v Speaker 1>I love a small truck, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I wouldn't have thought anything of it, except for

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<v Speaker 2>the one they gave me was an Orange, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>a sucker for Orange. They got your number, and then

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<v Speaker 2>so I started looking a little bit more closely. It's

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<v Speaker 2>the Pro four X version, which is like their version

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<v Speaker 2>of TRD right, and it has really cool wheels and

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<v Speaker 2>some sweet little accents in terms of design elements. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I get in and I start driving it, and

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<v Speaker 2>I remember like there's a lot of fun to be

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<v Speaker 2>had in driving sort of inexpensive Jeeps, which is essentially

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<v Speaker 2>what it is, right, it's the same feel as driving

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<v Speaker 2>a Wrangler or a Bronco. I know there's a bit

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<v Speaker 2>of a difference between those two, but it's like right

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<v Speaker 2>in the middle in terms of driveability. It's got a

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<v Speaker 2>three point eight liter V six. It's kind of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not cutting edge tech in terms of the motor,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's well over three hundred horsepower. It's peppy enough,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's just like fun to drive one of these

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<v Speaker 2>vehicles and think that I wouldn't have to spend like

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred thousand dollars on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this is this more of a work truck, more

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<v Speaker 1>like a like a go out in the wilderness truck.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, well this is the go out in the

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<v Speaker 2>wilderness version of it, right. I'm sure that most people

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<v Speaker 2>who get it are still going to be going to Starbucks, Like.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not going to the job site necessarily.

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<v Speaker 2>Well you could, you could camp. And that's the other

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<v Speaker 2>thing I realized about this this vehicle, Like I love

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<v Speaker 2>the jeepish power train and handling and you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>suspension and for an urban jungle like the New York

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<v Speaker 2>metropolitan area, you kind of need that, right because everything

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<v Speaker 2>else gets beat to hell. But when I look at

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<v Speaker 2>these little trucks, you know, you see the Canyon or

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<v Speaker 2>the Colorado or you know, the Ranger, I always think

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<v Speaker 2>it's like an al Camino, Like it's just they they

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<v Speaker 2>just made a car and put an open bed in it,

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<v Speaker 2>but actually still a body on frame truck. And that

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<v Speaker 2>ruggedness I think is so cool for the I think

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<v Speaker 2>it starts at forty thousand dollars for the price tag,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and today's day and age, that's not an

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<v Speaker 2>incredibly high price. And that is for this sort of

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<v Speaker 2>top of the line Apex Predator version of the Nissan Frontier.

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<v Speaker 2>So I just want to give a shout out to

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<v Speaker 2>those and say there are still affordable vehicles out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I have to say, I mean I'm looking

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<v Speaker 1>at a photo right now. It's not tiny. It's got

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<v Speaker 1>four doors. It's got a double cab, right, I'm assuming

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<v Speaker 1>the one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it does.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a true like a tiny. It's not tiny tiny.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean we're talking about it being a small truck.

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<v Speaker 2>But right, I mean, you don't want too many people

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<v Speaker 2>of my height in it. You know, I'm six three,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm all legs, so I'm you know, the seats all

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<v Speaker 2>the way back for me to drive, and I'm still

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I'd want to spend too much

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<v Speaker 2>time in it.

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<v Speaker 1>But got it.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, for more regular sized or smaller humans, it's

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<v Speaker 2>a fantastic truck. And it is a truck like you know, I,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess I tend to be biased against things that

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<v Speaker 2>are smaller than an F one fifty and the fact

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<v Speaker 2>is so, for example, Ford has been offering me the

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<v Speaker 2>Ranger Raptor to try out for months and I've just

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<v Speaker 2>not taken him up on it because I'm like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>why I want the F one fifty Raptor. But this

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<v Speaker 2>has opened my eyes to a smaller truck experience and

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<v Speaker 2>now I'm really excited to try a few more of them.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I cool. I really, I mean I learned

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<v Speaker 1>to drive stick on a Ford truck. I do have

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<v Speaker 1>a soft spot for truck, so I'm all for it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's great.

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<v Speaker 2>What have you been driving recently? I saw a little

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<v Speaker 2>jellybean sized or shaped in the medhicle. Yeah, yes, and

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to talk about it a little bit because

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<v Speaker 2>I know Mark German likes it as well. But to me,

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<v Speaker 2>the design is just.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the design isn't really. I mean, we've seen

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<v Speaker 1>we've seen the Macon in the market for years now,

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<v Speaker 1>so the design itself isn't new.

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<v Speaker 2>I loved the previous look of the Macan I thought

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<v Speaker 2>when I first saw it, I think it was in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty fifteen. It was right around the time they came

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<v Speaker 2>out the nine to eleven R and I was at

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, I guess an auto show, maybe Detroit and

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<v Speaker 2>or maybe La and I thought, cool, it's like a

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<v Speaker 2>lifted four door nine to eleven, Like that's awesome, But

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<v Speaker 2>this thing looks even more jelly beanie to me. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like the Tesla Model X and every other kind of

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<v Speaker 2>you still call them an suv. I guess you still

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<v Speaker 2>called an ash.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I think you could. It's a compact suv,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what. I actually I wasn't bothered by the design.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it looked cool. It's if you park it

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<v Speaker 1>next to EV's evsuvs from like Audi, for instance, it

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<v Speaker 1>certainly does look more dynamic. You know, it really looks,

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<v Speaker 1>especially the front where you have the stack of lights

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<v Speaker 1>on either side and just sort of a wall in

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<v Speaker 1>front of it. I don't want to say it looks

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<v Speaker 1>like the front of the earth's the Lamborghini suv. But

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<v Speaker 1>there it could be reminiscent.

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<v Speaker 2>It's smaller, right, it's oh yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It's smaller, but you know, I don't There's a little

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<v Speaker 1>spoiler on the back, so you can have a jellybean

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<v Speaker 1>with a spoiler, Matt if you want. You know, to me,

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't so markedly different than the many other Macons

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<v Speaker 1>that are on the road. Obviously, this is the best

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<v Speaker 1>selling Portia vehicle in the US and the second best

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<v Speaker 1>in the world, So it to me, it wasn't radically

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<v Speaker 1>different than the mccon we've already seen.

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<v Speaker 2>All Right, Well, I think, but I'm sure you don't

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<v Speaker 2>like it. Well, I just don't love the design. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sure it drives great and great for an EV I

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<v Speaker 2>wonder does it have decent range? Yeah? It is charging quick.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. The variant that I drove is the Macon

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<v Speaker 1>turbo Electric.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, hang on a second, I already have a problem.

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<v Speaker 2>I already have a problem. Where's the turbo going.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's a marketing label at this point, and you

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<v Speaker 1>know it has been because we saw it in the

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<v Speaker 1>Taycan as well. So you know, turbo denotes the highest

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<v Speaker 1>variant at portion, it doesn't actually mean there's a turbo

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<v Speaker 1>charger under the hood. Silly.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know they were going to stick with that.

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<v Speaker 1>I know they're pulling up.

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<v Speaker 2>I knew they did it with the Taykon, but I

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<v Speaker 2>thought enough people would have made fun of the executives.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Oliver Bloomag goes to a dinner party and

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<v Speaker 2>someone's like, hey, dude, really the turbo Are you serious

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<v Speaker 2>that they would have changed their minds?

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<v Speaker 1>But no, they're doubling down. They're doubling down. So the

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<v Speaker 1>taycn sorry, the Macan Turbot Electric is there are four variants.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the highest of the four. It starts at about

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred and five thousand dollars. To answer your question,

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<v Speaker 1>it has two hundred eight.

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<v Speaker 2>And actually starts at one hundred and five thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>It starts at the turbine.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the higher. Yeah, the higher variant. I think the

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<v Speaker 1>the entry level starts at about seventy five thousand, So

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<v Speaker 1>there's a range there. There's a range there. The variant

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<v Speaker 1>that I drove got up to about one hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>thirty thousand dollars. That's adding things like twenty two inch

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<v Speaker 1>wheels with carbon fib carbon fiber arrow blades and things

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<v Speaker 1>like that. Some of the lesser variants have a lot

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<v Speaker 1>more range, about three hundred and ten miles or so.

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<v Speaker 1>This version that I drove has more power six hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and thirty horse power equivalent, but it has a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit less range two hundred and eighty eight miles of range.

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<v Speaker 1>I drove it up to Newcombs. I really flogged it.

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<v Speaker 1>I get, as we've discussed, I get major range anxiety.

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<v Speaker 1>I drove it for four days all over the city,

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<v Speaker 1>never actually got it under thirty percent of a charge left.

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<v Speaker 1>So to me, it was incredibly usable. If I had it,

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<v Speaker 1>I it would be the type of thing I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>charging it on the weekend at my house. Didn't seem

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<v Speaker 1>like a big deal because the charging network in LA

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<v Speaker 1>is not I don't even think it's great in LA.

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<v Speaker 1>You may fight me on that, but no, I have problems.

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't ever really spent any time in LA, and

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<v Speaker 2>so I also don't know what Newcombs is. What's Newcomb's.

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<v Speaker 1>Newcomb's Ranch is a used to be a restaurant. It's

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<v Speaker 1>up Angeleau's Crest. It's twenty six miles up highway to

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<v Speaker 1>up Angeleau's Crest, which is the highway through the mountains

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<v Speaker 1>leaving Los Angeles. It take You can go up there

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<v Speaker 1>to like Lake Arrowhead and Big Bear, and you can

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<v Speaker 1>get into some snow. Even Newcomb's Ranch is used to

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<v Speaker 1>be a restaurant. It's been abandoned for years. It's it's

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<v Speaker 1>been for sale for years, and I remember I actually

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<v Speaker 1>had Thanksgiving Thanksgiving meal there once. It's really nice. It's

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<v Speaker 1>basically a destination now for people to just drive up

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<v Speaker 1>to Newcomb's because it's a great drive and it's there's

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<v Speaker 1>a big parking lot there can park up and talk

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<v Speaker 1>with your car buddies. But you know, everyone has this

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<v Speaker 1>dream about new Comes. You know, I want to buy

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<v Speaker 1>it and get the restaurant back working. And the problem

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<v Speaker 1>with new Comes is there's one road in and one

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<v Speaker 1>road out, and that road is subject to rock slides

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<v Speaker 1>and mud slides and lots of snow, and that road

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<v Speaker 1>is often closed arbitrarily by the powers that be. So

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<v Speaker 1>if you're trying to get supplies and staff to your

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<v Speaker 1>restaurant up the road twenty six miles, it's difficult and unpredictable.

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<v Speaker 1>So in my opinion that's the real challenge of newcomes.

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<v Speaker 2>But well, it looks cool, and I hope you know

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<v Speaker 2>how lucky you are living in a place like that.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, let's get to our interview with Mark German,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's super fascinating and I think connected to a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of these topics. Yeah, and then we'll touch base again.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty excited to talk to you because I had

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<v Speaker 2>you on my TV show. You were saying some pretty

0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:02.000
<v Speaker 2>interesting stuff about Apple that you know, everyone knows that

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<v Speaker 2>they worked on a car and then canceled it. But

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<v Speaker 2>you said you've actually seen I guess a prototype, and

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<v Speaker 2>you think canceling it was a horrible strategic decision. Tell

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<v Speaker 2>us about it.

0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think over the long term, canceling work on

0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.920
<v Speaker 3>the self driving car was a terrible strategic decision for Apple.

0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:22.520
<v Speaker 3>Everything I saw pointed to an innovative sort of living

0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:28.600
<v Speaker 3>room on wheels, a innovative autonomous experience on the road,

0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.360
<v Speaker 3>so much more than a car, right, something where you

0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.360
<v Speaker 3>can lay back and chill and FaceTime and watch TV.

0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:39.960
<v Speaker 3>They had features at this time during development where you

0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:44.839
<v Speaker 3>could hear the outdoors through special microphones and speakers in

0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.080
<v Speaker 3>the car to make you feel like you were outdoors.

0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.200
<v Speaker 3>They had a window list designed. The idea was you

0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 3>could just plug in where you're going and it would

0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.280
<v Speaker 3>take you there, all sorts of different safety mechanisms. They

0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.640
<v Speaker 3>even had this idea with no steering wheel, you could

0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.880
<v Speaker 3>use your iPhone app as a control roller for the car.

0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.640
<v Speaker 3>And there was even a physical controller, almost like a

0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.920
<v Speaker 3>PlayStation or Xbox controller where you can take over. There

0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 3>was a call button into an Apple command center where

0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.120
<v Speaker 3>they had rooms with steering wheels and they could take

0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.920
<v Speaker 3>over manually to drive the car for you. So all

0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.720
<v Speaker 3>sorts of just pretty amazing technology and designs that they

0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.280
<v Speaker 3>worked on. The design looked absolutely phenomenal. It was like

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.000
<v Speaker 3>a blend of a zoos and a canoe and a

0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.280
<v Speaker 3>BMW I three, but quite a bit bigger. It could

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:33.240
<v Speaker 3>fit four to six people basically lounging right a moving

0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.320
<v Speaker 3>autonomous lounge on wheels, and I think it would have

0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.600
<v Speaker 3>been remarkable and totally upended the industry. But Apple was

0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.440
<v Speaker 3>not getting where it needed to get fast enough to

0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.439
<v Speaker 3>an autonomous first environment, and by the time they realized

0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.839
<v Speaker 3>they needed to pull the plug on full autonomy, they

0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.760
<v Speaker 3>had invested so much money billions tens of billions, and

0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.280
<v Speaker 3>it was too much, and they needed to start investing

0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.520
<v Speaker 3>that money elsewhere into generative AI for phones and tablets

0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.440
<v Speaker 3>and computers and the like. But I think over the

0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.280
<v Speaker 3>long term strategic mistake. At some point, I think they're

0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.480
<v Speaker 3>gonna need to come back to it. But you spent

0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:06.720
<v Speaker 3>ten years building up this car division, hiring all the

0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.720
<v Speaker 3>car people, then you fired them all. You can't really

0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.240
<v Speaker 3>reboot it that easily. It's gonna have to take probably

0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.320
<v Speaker 3>a new CEO, new management team, and probably a decade

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.760
<v Speaker 3>in change in between. But I think an Apple car

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.880
<v Speaker 3>would have been revolutionary. And once Apple comes to a market,

0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.520
<v Speaker 3>not only do they vanquish the market, but it starts

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.280
<v Speaker 3>heightening the competition and trying to get everyone else to

0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.520
<v Speaker 3>build better products as well. So I think it would

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:31.880
<v Speaker 3>have been a great thing for the industry. And as

0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.119
<v Speaker 3>someone who's into cars and into technology, I'm pretty disappointed.

0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Mark. I'm so curious about this, And I reread your

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Big Take story that you wrote about this in March

0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.760
<v Speaker 1>of last year, and I really recommend our listeners to

0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.840
<v Speaker 1>go read it. Will include the link on the podcast.

0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:53.360
<v Speaker 1>And I'm just curious on a philosophical level, how you

0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 1>really see this failed effort, because it seemed to me

0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.640
<v Speaker 1>like a combination of perhap apps arrogance. There was one

0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.640
<v Speaker 1>point where you said, you know, Apple kind of thought

0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.640
<v Speaker 1>they were going to come in and vanquish. They were

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 1>going to come in as like the latest you know,

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.360
<v Speaker 1>entry into a long established industry and vanquish everyone else.

0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.840
<v Speaker 1>So there's that element, but also there's an element that

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.480
<v Speaker 1>cars are really hard to make. It's like I say

0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.000
<v Speaker 1>it all the time, it's a simple thing, but you know,

0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 1>we've seen countless people think, hey, boys, let's go build

0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.640
<v Speaker 1>a car. Like like you say in your piece, it

0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.720
<v Speaker 1>seems like a good idea, and everyone gets excited and

0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 1>then you know, a year and a billion dollars later,

0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 1>you realize it's a really hard thing to do. So

0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious, you know how much of this failure was

0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.280
<v Speaker 1>due to arrogance, Was due to the fact that this

0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:44.440
<v Speaker 1>is just a very hard thing, or should they have

0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 1>not gone for full level five autonomous driving and maybe

0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 1>set a goal a little bit more attainable. What's your thought, Hannah?

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.320
<v Speaker 3>It was the arrogance to think that they could literally

0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.600
<v Speaker 3>reinvent the wheel by going full autonomy at this state

0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:04.000
<v Speaker 3>with the current requirements of the technology. It was the

0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.280
<v Speaker 3>hubrist to believe that Apple could do anything it sets

0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 3>its mind to. But no, this is a problem that

0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:14.120
<v Speaker 3>isn't solvable right now at a level of quality, safety,

0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 3>and fit and finish that a company as big as

0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.560
<v Speaker 3>Apple would require, right, think of all the safety concerns

0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.760
<v Speaker 3>with full autonomy. So that hubris is what really destroyed

0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.760
<v Speaker 3>the project. From day one. They were unwilling to move

0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.480
<v Speaker 3>off of that standpoint. You know, there were some people

0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.160
<v Speaker 3>on Apple's management team that said, why don't we just

0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.600
<v Speaker 3>release a better Tesla. Why don't we bring something that

0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 3>looks like the coolest car on the road, has amazing

0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:45.040
<v Speaker 3>battery electronics and a manufacturing process, has tight integration with

0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 3>the Apple ecosystem, has the best car interior you've ever seen,

0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 3>has the best infotainment system you've ever seen. We can

0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.280
<v Speaker 3>put limited autonomy features like Tesla did several years ago.

0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 3>Over time, maybe upgrade them. Why not just take Keesla

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.680
<v Speaker 3>Tesla head on. Other people are like, well, we're Apple,

0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:08.200
<v Speaker 3>we have to do things completely different. We invented the iPhone, right,

0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.600
<v Speaker 3>and I think the arrogance in that company because of

0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:13.800
<v Speaker 3>the success of the iPhone for the last two decades

0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.040
<v Speaker 3>led them down the wrong path. Apple can't do anything

0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.160
<v Speaker 3>it sets its mind to, very clearly. I think if

0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.480
<v Speaker 3>Apple released a true Tesla competitor, this conversation would be

0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:28.160
<v Speaker 3>completely different. I think a real competitor Tesla focusing on

0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:34.439
<v Speaker 3>design compatibility with the Apple ecosystem, infotainment, limited autonomy features

0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:36.240
<v Speaker 3>that could get better over time, I think it would

0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.840
<v Speaker 3>have been a killer product, and they should quite frankly,

0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.000
<v Speaker 3>be pretty upset with themselves that they allowed this project

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.000
<v Speaker 3>to go in the entirely wrong direction from the very beginning.

0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Would they be partnered up with someone I remember reports that,

0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:54.679
<v Speaker 2>for example, they could work with Kia. I also know

0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.640
<v Speaker 2>from talking to you about it that they have partnered

0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.359
<v Speaker 2>up in other areas like CarPlay too. I want to

0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 2>get to in a little bit with Porsche, which is, like,

0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, top of the industry in terms of fit

0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.240
<v Speaker 2>and finish, design, build quality, that.

0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Sort of thing.

0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:10.760
<v Speaker 2>So would they have partnered up with somebody else or

0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:12.479
<v Speaker 2>would they have tried to do it in house?

0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:17.440
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think given Apple's ability to partner with manufacturing companies.

0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.480
<v Speaker 3>There's Magna that does car manufacturing. They're based in Canada,

0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.199
<v Speaker 3>there are manufacturers in Asia like fox Conn who are

0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:28.080
<v Speaker 3>working on EV platforms and such. I think they could

0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.720
<v Speaker 3>have partnered with them pretty easily. One failed partnership was

0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.840
<v Speaker 3>with Tesla, right Elon Musk. That Yeah, Elon Musk basically

0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:39.080
<v Speaker 3>offered up the company to Tim Cook almost a decade ago.

0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.200
<v Speaker 3>He said, no, this was when it was worth about

0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.320
<v Speaker 3>sixty billion on the market cap. Wouldn't have really cost

0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.920
<v Speaker 3>Apple much if you're incorporating stock and everything like that,

0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.280
<v Speaker 3>compared to what they've what they have on hand, or

0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.600
<v Speaker 3>what they had on hand at the time, So that

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:52.800
<v Speaker 3>was a.

0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.080
<v Speaker 2>Big back then they had over one hundred and twenty billion.

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they had way more. I mean now they're trying

0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.000
<v Speaker 3>to get to cash neutral, but back then they had

0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.240
<v Speaker 3>several hundred billion dollars in cash, right upwards of two

0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:04.240
<v Speaker 3>hundred three hundred billion in cash. They could have easily

0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.840
<v Speaker 3>bought Tesla. They could have turned Tesla into the machine

0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.720
<v Speaker 3>it is today, even quicker than Elon Musk was able

0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.480
<v Speaker 3>to given all their partnerships and experience. So you know,

0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:15.680
<v Speaker 3>I think that was a huge mistake by Tim Cook

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.719
<v Speaker 3>to not go down that Tesla path. I think there

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:20.640
<v Speaker 3>were some fears of what Elon Musk would have done

0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:25.040
<v Speaker 3>to a larger Apple, which I don't think that's entirely unfounded,

0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.360
<v Speaker 3>but I think that the benefits of such a partnership

0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.920
<v Speaker 3>our an acquisition would have outweighed the risks in terms

0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:33.640
<v Speaker 3>of other partnerships. Yeah, they talked to Kia, they talked

0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.880
<v Speaker 3>to Ferrari, they talked to Volkswagen, they talked to Mercedes BMW.

0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:39.879
<v Speaker 3>In time and time again, they were not able to

0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.679
<v Speaker 3>reach any consensus about a true partnership who would do what.

0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.840
<v Speaker 3>They got pretty far down the road on a partnership

0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.399
<v Speaker 3>with one company, one of the big German automakers, and

0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.920
<v Speaker 3>they were really excited about how well the partnership was doing,

0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:53.520
<v Speaker 3>so they pulled the plug on it, thinking they don't

0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.280
<v Speaker 3>need them as a partner, we can go at Yes,

0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 3>this was Mercedes, so they definitely had failures, leadership failure,

0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:04.600
<v Speaker 3>financial related failures all around. The former Apple CFO Luca Maistrie,

0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:08.240
<v Speaker 3>who came from the car business. He was a finance

0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.520
<v Speaker 3>executive at General Motors over in Europe. He pushed heavily

0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.280
<v Speaker 3>against the car project because he knew firsthand how bad

0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.000
<v Speaker 3>of a business it is in terms of the costs,

0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.600
<v Speaker 3>that go into it, But I think they were too

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.280
<v Speaker 3>scared to do something rational, and they focused on pipe

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.200
<v Speaker 3>dream levels of technology and essentially went nowhere.

0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, I know that. I think it was last

0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.960
<v Speaker 1>year I drove in a Mercedes BINZ that had Level

0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:38.240
<v Speaker 1>three autonomous driving capability. I drove, I rode slash drove

0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.680
<v Speaker 1>in that in LA Do you happen to know of

0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.760
<v Speaker 1>that system? That Level three system was developed during the

0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:51.280
<v Speaker 1>time that Mercedes and Apple were in their talks to

0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.520
<v Speaker 1>potentially work together. Is this something that probably resulted from

0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.040
<v Speaker 1>that sort of partnership.

0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:00.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't think so. I don't think so. In terms

0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.160
<v Speaker 3>of things that came out of the Apple Car project

0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.000
<v Speaker 3>that have hit the market at this point. The Apple

0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:10.000
<v Speaker 3>Vision pro started off within the Apple Car project. The

0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.800
<v Speaker 3>initial effort to build augmented reality and virtual reality products

0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.560
<v Speaker 3>at Apple wasn't a headset or glasses. It was actually

0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:21.439
<v Speaker 3>the windshield and dashboard in the Apple car. The idea was,

0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:23.960
<v Speaker 3>you are looking through this windshield in front of your car,

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.840
<v Speaker 3>and there's a ton of widgets, your speedometer, everything in

0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.960
<v Speaker 3>an augmented reality fashion. That was too expensive to put

0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:33.000
<v Speaker 3>into the car, so they moved it into a headset

0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.960
<v Speaker 3>form factor, which obviously makes a ton more sense. The

0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.000
<v Speaker 3>other things is Apple's upcoming push into personal robotics. They're

0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.200
<v Speaker 3>working on some robotics devices. Don't forget. A self driven

0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.440
<v Speaker 3>car is essentially a robotics device. It's a robot on wheels,

0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.280
<v Speaker 3>and the same underlying autonomy and SLAM and three D

0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.040
<v Speaker 3>technologies to do a self driven car, the same tech

0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:53.080
<v Speaker 3>you would use in a robot that roams through your home,

0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:55.560
<v Speaker 3>And so that came out of that as well. And

0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.280
<v Speaker 3>then Apple's chip efforts they make these AI chips called

0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.520
<v Speaker 3>the neural Engine. The original engine was actually built to

0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.359
<v Speaker 3>process the AI for self driving autonomy on the car,

0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:06.760
<v Speaker 3>and now that's in every iPhone and iPad and Mac

0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:09.200
<v Speaker 3>that you buy today with the Apple in house processor.

0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:11.920
<v Speaker 3>So you know, not all is lost from that project

0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.720
<v Speaker 3>except a potentially new hundred billion dollar a year business

0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.120
<v Speaker 3>that they are in not desperate need of right now,

0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:21.919
<v Speaker 3>but will probably wish they had a.

0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:23.399
<v Speaker 2>Figure how long do you think it's going to be

0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.520
<v Speaker 2>until they try and reboot, until they realize they need to.

0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:28.920
<v Speaker 3>I think it's going to be five to fifteen years

0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:30.560
<v Speaker 3>before they try to get back in the car space.

0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:33.160
<v Speaker 3>But eventually they're going to have to. I mean Steve

0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:35.960
<v Speaker 3>Jobs and other executives at Apple at the time twenty

0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.080
<v Speaker 3>years ago. We're talking about more than twenty years ago. Yeah,

0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.280
<v Speaker 3>we're talking about the desire to own the next stage

0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.600
<v Speaker 3>of technology after mobile. And you know, they have long

0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:49.480
<v Speaker 3>considered the car the ultimate mobile device. And so I

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:51.840
<v Speaker 3>think what really gave them inspirations how much people loved

0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:53.879
<v Speaker 3>car Play, which I know we're going to talk about.

0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:58.120
<v Speaker 3>Car Play. They launched in twenty fourteen. It was originally

0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:01.639
<v Speaker 3>introduced in twenty thirteen as iOS in the car. The

0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:03.840
<v Speaker 3>concept is very simple. You plug your phone into the

0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:08.000
<v Speaker 3>car and it basically creates a new interface in your

0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:11.240
<v Speaker 3>interfertainment system. That is an Apple designed interface where you

0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:15.600
<v Speaker 3>can do your texting, your Siri, your calls, messages, all

0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.080
<v Speaker 3>sorts of stuff, the third party apps, and they have

0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:19.840
<v Speaker 3>some pretty big ambitions for that.

0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:22.879
<v Speaker 2>I think the Ferrari the FF was one of the

0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:24.840
<v Speaker 2>first cars available with car Play.

0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:25.400
<v Speaker 1>That's right.

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:29.240
<v Speaker 2>We're seeing it at the Detroit Auto Show and I thought, wow,

0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:31.440
<v Speaker 2>it's so cool. Ferrari working closely with Apple.

0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:34.639
<v Speaker 3>That's right. And Eddie q who's a senior vice president

0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:38.439
<v Speaker 3>Apple for Services one of steve jobs closest confidants, really

0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:40.679
<v Speaker 3>a disciple of his. He's on the Bord of Ferrari

0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:43.719
<v Speaker 3>and so he's doing a lot of those partnerships. Car

0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:46.520
<v Speaker 3>Play ya, right. It launched in the Ferrari first back

0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:50.360
<v Speaker 3>in twenty fourteen, so ten years ago, eleven years ago

0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:53.840
<v Speaker 3>at this point. But their real ambition is to go deeper.

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.919
<v Speaker 3>So right now, car Play is very much tied to

0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:06.200
<v Speaker 3>the Apple interface, applications I message calls, FaceTime audio, third

0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:09.879
<v Speaker 3>party apps, we chat, third party mapping apps, Apple maps Serie,

0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:13.640
<v Speaker 3>of course. But Apple's grander ambition is this project code

0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:18.320
<v Speaker 3>named Ironheart, and that's CarPlay two. This was announced back

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:21.680
<v Speaker 3>in twenty twenty two, so three years ago. The idea

0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:27.919
<v Speaker 3>revamping CarPlay so it can control not only your Apple Interface,

0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:31.840
<v Speaker 3>your Apple apps and services and functions there, but the

0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:34.600
<v Speaker 3>functions in your car as well. What if CarPlay can

0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:40.440
<v Speaker 3>expand to control in view, your gauges, your electric your speedometer,

0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:44.439
<v Speaker 3>everything you would normally get in your instrument cluster, control

0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:49.000
<v Speaker 3>your climate in your car, control your seats, control your radio,

0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:53.560
<v Speaker 3>so the whole car system operated by your iPhone. Right,

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:56.320
<v Speaker 3>So they introduce this in twenty twenty two. The idea

0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.040
<v Speaker 3>was to put the Apple interface in all the displays

0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:02.320
<v Speaker 3>in your car. Right, there's tons of cars. Now you

0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:05.600
<v Speaker 3>have a big digital display and a lot of cars

0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:12.720
<v Speaker 3>replacing the old terrestrial instrument gages. Right, it's never launched.

0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:15.920
<v Speaker 3>They've still been promising this thing. A couple of years ago.

0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:18.440
<v Speaker 3>They said their two partners at first would be Portia

0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:22.080
<v Speaker 3>and as did Martin. Those two cars haven't launched yet

0:25:22.400 --> 0:25:26.280
<v Speaker 3>with the new car Play, so it's anat why not?

0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:28.040
<v Speaker 1>What's the delay? What's the whole?

0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 3>So for one, car Play works so well the current

0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:35.679
<v Speaker 3>iteration and is in so many cars. Everyone uses it

0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:37.440
<v Speaker 3>and loves it because it's so easy. You plug it

0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:39.879
<v Speaker 3>in seamless, Yes, you plug it in. It's seamless. It

0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:44.080
<v Speaker 3>works why Because it's a standardized Apple interface. You're getting

0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:47.920
<v Speaker 3>the same interface everywhere you go. The idea with car

0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:51.160
<v Speaker 3>Play too is that every car would have its own

0:25:51.200 --> 0:25:54.080
<v Speaker 3>bespoke interface, So the iPhone will be loaded up with

0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:56.600
<v Speaker 3>a different interface for every car. Ferrari would have its

0:25:56.600 --> 0:26:00.199
<v Speaker 3>own UI, Asden would have its own UI range over

0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:03.480
<v Speaker 3>it's on Ui Riva and its own UI. You name it. Right,

0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:06.880
<v Speaker 3>that's a lot of work. There are so many car

0:26:06.920 --> 0:26:11.959
<v Speaker 3>models on the road. Right, every car manufacturer wants to

0:26:12.000 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 3>have a look just for it, and they need to

0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:15.639
<v Speaker 3>sit down with Apple to create a look just for it.

0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:19.480
<v Speaker 3>Because it's so tightly and deeply integrated into the deep

0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:23.760
<v Speaker 3>systems within the car, right, that requires a lot of

0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:27.080
<v Speaker 3>engineering time as well. It's not plug and play like

0:26:27.119 --> 0:26:29.840
<v Speaker 3>the CarPlay we know today. So from a user interface

0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:32.479
<v Speaker 3>design standpoint, you have a big blockade there. From an

0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:35.720
<v Speaker 3>engineering and car component standpoint, you have a big blockade there.

0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:38.400
<v Speaker 3>But I guess the biggest thing is that in this era,

0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:42.280
<v Speaker 3>companies simply don't trust Apple, and they shouldn't. They saw

0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:46.080
<v Speaker 3>Apple come in there and destroy the smartphone industry, the

0:26:46.280 --> 0:26:50.880
<v Speaker 3>music industry, basically every industry it is entered smart watches.

0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:54.280
<v Speaker 3>They don't want Apple to come in, steal their customer

0:26:54.800 --> 0:26:58.200
<v Speaker 3>and destroy their relationship with the people who own their cars.

0:26:58.520 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 3>There is massive risk of BA basically handing over the

0:27:01.840 --> 0:27:05.320
<v Speaker 3>keys right to your car business to Apple.

0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:07.240
<v Speaker 1>There's data concerns too, right.

0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:09.440
<v Speaker 3>There's probably data concerns as well, But I think the

0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:13.280
<v Speaker 3>bigger concern is that Apple comes in builds a new

0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:16.960
<v Speaker 3>relationship with your customer, not a car play interface taking

0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:19.560
<v Speaker 3>over your whole car, and then one day they come

0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:21.520
<v Speaker 3>back decide they want to build a car.

0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:24.919
<v Speaker 3>I've loved using car play too for all these years.

0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:29.200
<v Speaker 3>I want the whole into and Apple experience. CarPlay is basically, yeah,

0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:32.360
<v Speaker 3>it's a trophan ur. It's basically an advertisement for Apple's

0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:36.240
<v Speaker 3>eventual car. And so if I'm a car manufacturer, why

0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:40.080
<v Speaker 3>would I want to give up my customer to Apple.

0:27:40.680 --> 0:27:42.520
<v Speaker 3>Why don't I go and try to build the best

0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:45.960
<v Speaker 3>operating system and services I can? And that's what we've

0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:47.879
<v Speaker 3>seen from GM.

0:27:47.720 --> 0:27:50.200
<v Speaker 2>Yep, exactly right. I mean, I mean, you know, for

0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:54.520
<v Speaker 2>so long, CarPlay had already dominated, it had become table stakes,

0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:56.040
<v Speaker 2>like if you make a luxury car, it has to

0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:59.639
<v Speaker 2>have CarPlay in it. But I've noticed recently, first of all,

0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:01.320
<v Speaker 2>if I get into a car that doesn't have wireless

0:28:01.320 --> 0:28:06.520
<v Speaker 2>car play, like ironically an Aston Martin or the new

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:13.080
<v Speaker 2>portsche Carearite didn't have it, and it's just like something's missing.

0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:16.840
<v Speaker 2>But I recently got into a gmccra EV and I

0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:20.200
<v Speaker 2>noticed there is no car play at all because they're

0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:22.280
<v Speaker 2>trying to get away from it. They're trying to sort

0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:25.160
<v Speaker 2>of wean themselves off of the consumer addiction to this

0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:26.119
<v Speaker 2>Apple iOS.

0:28:26.200 --> 0:28:30.359
<v Speaker 3>Now, I don't believe what GM is doing is smart.

0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:35.800
<v Speaker 3>I think that they should allow car Play the OG

0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:38.480
<v Speaker 3>version of car Play, the original plug and play version.

0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:40.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't see the issue with that. Like you said,

0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:43.440
<v Speaker 3>that's table stakes for when consumers are buying a new

0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:47.160
<v Speaker 3>vehicle today. I agree that they should never in their

0:28:47.200 --> 0:28:50.200
<v Speaker 3>right mind adopt car Play too, because that's when you're

0:28:50.240 --> 0:28:53.920
<v Speaker 3>really handing the keys over of your customer to the

0:28:53.960 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 3>most powerful company in the world. There's no need to

0:28:56.360 --> 0:29:00.360
<v Speaker 3>do that, and as tightly integrated as CarPlay could potentially be,

0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:03.840
<v Speaker 3>I think there's a universe in which car makers can

0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:06.560
<v Speaker 3>make an even more bespoke interface for their customers. Right,

0:29:06.600 --> 0:29:09.280
<v Speaker 3>So I agree you don't want to support car Play two.

0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:12.240
<v Speaker 3>I'm with you. You don't want to support car Play one.

0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:15.240
<v Speaker 3>I think that is a mistake, and customers are telling

0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:17.720
<v Speaker 3>GM that, So we'll see what happens. You have to

0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:20.680
<v Speaker 3>build a better mousetrap if you're going to block what's

0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:32.520
<v Speaker 3>really known as the best one.

0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Mark. What is the sense at Apple of any customer

0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:38.760
<v Speaker 1>resistance to a car that is just completely screens with

0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:41.760
<v Speaker 1>no buttons and knobs? And I ask, because you know

0:29:41.800 --> 0:29:44.880
<v Speaker 1>when there are consumer feedback surveys, A lot of the

0:29:44.920 --> 0:29:48.040
<v Speaker 1>most annoying things that people would say is I don't

0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:50.720
<v Speaker 1>want to have to go through levels in an interface

0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:53.600
<v Speaker 1>in order to like adjust my seat or put my

0:29:53.680 --> 0:29:56.280
<v Speaker 1>wind down, just these simple tasks that a single button

0:29:56.720 --> 0:30:01.520
<v Speaker 1>would accomplish far simpler, Like Apple, of course, would just

0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:03.920
<v Speaker 1>go all pure screen all the time. Is there a

0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 1>conversation there?

0:30:05.120 --> 0:30:06.920
<v Speaker 3>There would be a lot of screens. But I think

0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:10.840
<v Speaker 3>in some cases Apple has realized where buttons are important. Right,

0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:14.000
<v Speaker 3>It's funny they've added more buttons to the iPhone in

0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:16.680
<v Speaker 3>the last three years. They've added two physical buttons to

0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:20.040
<v Speaker 3>the iPhone. For the previous fifteen years of the iPhone history,

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:23.000
<v Speaker 3>they've never added a button. Now they have your action button.

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:26.080
<v Speaker 3>Now you have your camera button, the camera control interface

0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:26.920
<v Speaker 3>on the side of the phone.

0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:31.560
<v Speaker 1>So is that because people are saying I would like

0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:32.880
<v Speaker 1>to have that, I mean.

0:30:32.800 --> 0:30:34.920
<v Speaker 3>Is that well on the camera control button, I'm not

0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:36.719
<v Speaker 3>sure anyone who asked for that. I think that I

0:30:36.880 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 3>like it, but pretty much no one else agrees with

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:39.320
<v Speaker 3>me on that one.

0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:40.720
<v Speaker 2>No, I like it.

0:30:40.760 --> 0:30:44.840
<v Speaker 3>Also, Okay, Matt likes it. But the action button, Okay, fine,

0:30:44.880 --> 0:30:46.560
<v Speaker 3>you replaced the mute swhich is something that could be

0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:50.200
<v Speaker 3>customizable for whatever. Nobody moves it off of the ringer

0:30:50.240 --> 0:30:51.480
<v Speaker 3>switch mat. Do you change your button?

0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:54.200
<v Speaker 2>And on the watch also, I don't need it.

0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:56.720
<v Speaker 3>There you go right, and so whatever. But I think

0:30:56.720 --> 0:30:58.600
<v Speaker 3>that shows that Apple realizes that there is a place

0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:01.520
<v Speaker 3>for tactile buttons, and I would yes. In a car, well,

0:31:01.520 --> 0:31:03.440
<v Speaker 3>first of all, the windows weren't gonna open anyways, so

0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:06.520
<v Speaker 3>let's let's scrap that one. You have the microphones to

0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:11.400
<v Speaker 3>feed in the outside audio instead. It's ridiculous Siri would

0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:15.160
<v Speaker 3>be the main control vehicle for the car anyways. But yeah,

0:31:15.320 --> 0:31:18.840
<v Speaker 3>in places where tactile switches, where those make sense, people

0:31:19.120 --> 0:31:22.480
<v Speaker 3>would would probably have those. Apple would want to implement it.

0:31:22.480 --> 0:31:24.760
<v Speaker 3>It's funny, you know, there are so many cars now

0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 3>that have a touchcreen display for the AC stuff. I

0:31:27.280 --> 0:31:29.840
<v Speaker 3>don't like that. I would rather the physical switches for that.

0:31:30.160 --> 0:31:32.760
<v Speaker 3>In Apple's case, you would probably have it all touchscreens.

0:31:32.760 --> 0:31:35.560
<v Speaker 3>But that's neither here nor there. Because whatever this next

0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:37.680
<v Speaker 3>car project from Apple, it's hopefully going to come in

0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:40.720
<v Speaker 3>a time when Siri actually works properly and we'll be

0:31:40.760 --> 0:31:43.400
<v Speaker 3>able to really have finite control over the over the

0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:45.920
<v Speaker 3>overall system now. And it's to your point earlier about

0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:48.240
<v Speaker 3>people at Apple how they felt about this. I think

0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:53.040
<v Speaker 3>one of the big arguments inside Apple is that the

0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:58.040
<v Speaker 3>people making the decisions are people who love driving their

0:31:58.080 --> 0:32:00.440
<v Speaker 3>cars and getting behind the wheel. You know, Apple has

0:32:00.440 --> 0:32:01.160
<v Speaker 3>this ethos.

0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:03.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm surprised to hear that at tech company.

0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:08.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, huge mistake to let your dated philosophies in your

0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:12.000
<v Speaker 3>own personal hobbies get in the middle of Apple's product pipeline.

0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:15.440
<v Speaker 3>I don't agree with that. The future is clearly autonomous.

0:32:15.880 --> 0:32:18.360
<v Speaker 3>You love driving behind the wheel, You can continue driving

0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:23.040
<v Speaker 3>behind the wheel, but there should be vehicles for everyone.

0:32:23.200 --> 0:32:26.680
<v Speaker 3>You can drive your Porsche or FERRAI arrasted Martin, but

0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:30.120
<v Speaker 3>also have the autonomous cars, just like on smart watches. Right,

0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:33.160
<v Speaker 3>there's plenty of Apple executives who are big Rolex Potect

0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:37.000
<v Speaker 3>Philly cardierap fans. Whatever. You have those for your your

0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:39.200
<v Speaker 3>wedding nights or you're going out nice, but you've got

0:32:39.200 --> 0:32:41.280
<v Speaker 3>your Apple watch for your nine to five, right, And

0:32:41.320 --> 0:32:43.800
<v Speaker 3>so I think that, you know, maybe it wasn't such

0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:47.120
<v Speaker 3>a big dynamic there, but definitely people at Apple love

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:50.480
<v Speaker 3>driving their cars, and so it felt like, why would

0:32:50.480 --> 0:32:52.800
<v Speaker 3>we want to change the industry when we kind of

0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:54.960
<v Speaker 3>love how it works. We love our cars, right.

0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:56.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious to know what cars you love because you

0:32:58.120 --> 0:33:02.760
<v Speaker 2>are so steeped in the tech industry and you also

0:33:02.880 --> 0:33:09.240
<v Speaker 2>are a fan of vehicles. So are there anything any

0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:12.560
<v Speaker 2>cars out there that you think are particularly interesting? I mean,

0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:14.840
<v Speaker 2>obviously we all love a Porscha nine to eleven, and

0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:17.280
<v Speaker 2>we all would love a Ferrari. But is there anything

0:33:17.280 --> 0:33:19.680
<v Speaker 2>that you think is fascinating considering both of the worlds

0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:20.320
<v Speaker 2>that you stand in.

0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:24.440
<v Speaker 3>I'm an EV guy, maybe that's not surprising, and I'm

0:33:24.480 --> 0:33:29.600
<v Speaker 3>not an EV guy for the energy or climate benefits.

0:33:29.800 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean, those are nice, but I love the acceleration

0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:36.640
<v Speaker 3>of EV's I think it's just amazing. I'm a tech

0:33:36.680 --> 0:33:39.240
<v Speaker 3>I'm a techie, so I like the battery architecture. I

0:33:39.360 --> 0:33:41.240
<v Speaker 3>like being able to charge at home. I like not

0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:43.000
<v Speaker 3>being able to fill up with the guts. I like

0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 3>that it's super quiet. So I like those technical focused benefits.

0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:51.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm a huge fan of the of the Porsche Taken.

0:33:51.960 --> 0:33:55.640
<v Speaker 3>I'm a big fan of the new macn EV from Porsche.

0:33:57.040 --> 0:34:01.480
<v Speaker 3>There you go, and I have a fantasy for an

0:34:01.480 --> 0:34:05.360
<v Speaker 3>as did Martin, more of a Lamborghini guy than a

0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:10.880
<v Speaker 3>Ferrari guy. Yeah, so you know some of those Italian cars.

0:34:11.719 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 3>Ask me about Tesla, right, Like, I gotta tell you so.

0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:17.719
<v Speaker 3>I had a Tesla Model Why. I had it on

0:34:17.760 --> 0:34:21.959
<v Speaker 3>a three year lease. Not getting another one of those,

0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:24.520
<v Speaker 3>I mean the new one. I was just not a

0:34:24.520 --> 0:34:26.960
<v Speaker 3>fan of the of the fit and finish. My driver's

0:34:27.000 --> 0:34:29.920
<v Speaker 3>seat fell apart, we had issues with the doors, the

0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:34.719
<v Speaker 3>display hinge got loose. It's just not a well manufactured product.

0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:39.560
<v Speaker 3>And the new Model three my wife has. She she

0:34:40.520 --> 0:34:43.520
<v Speaker 3>doesn't drive it much, but she likes it a lot.

0:34:43.960 --> 0:34:45.839
<v Speaker 3>The quality seems quite a bit better on the new

0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:47.919
<v Speaker 3>Model three versus the old model threes and the Model

0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:50.759
<v Speaker 3>Why So. Maybe they'll get there, but I'm just not

0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:53.440
<v Speaker 3>a fan of the Tesla product at this point.

0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:56.520
<v Speaker 1>Mark, I have one more question for you, if we

0:34:56.560 --> 0:34:58.879
<v Speaker 1>have time, just in terms, I would want to hear

0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:04.719
<v Speaker 1>about the competition that Apple would or is facing as

0:35:04.760 --> 0:35:09.919
<v Speaker 1>it considers or not coming out with this car. Play too,

0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:15.520
<v Speaker 1>but also the car itself, especially as it relates to China,

0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:20.200
<v Speaker 1>because obviously we don't have Chinese made vehicles here or

0:35:20.840 --> 0:35:26.080
<v Speaker 1>from Chinese companies, but it's yet, it's coming and you know,

0:35:26.160 --> 0:35:33.320
<v Speaker 1>the Chinese market has really proved devastating to traditional automakers,

0:35:33.400 --> 0:35:36.440
<v Speaker 1>especially in Europe this past year, just because they've figured

0:35:36.440 --> 0:35:39.239
<v Speaker 1>out a way to make grade evs. How does that

0:35:39.280 --> 0:35:39.920
<v Speaker 1>affect Apple?

0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 3>So let me break this down. It's actually quite simple.

0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:44.200
<v Speaker 3>All the Chinese guys they're going to come out with

0:35:44.239 --> 0:35:48.120
<v Speaker 3>their own cars. They're already doing it. These are basically phones, tablets,

0:35:48.160 --> 0:35:50.839
<v Speaker 3>computers on wheels. The autonomy part, I think is really

0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:53.600
<v Speaker 3>not important right now. You have to get there eventually,

0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:58.360
<v Speaker 3>but today it's not so important. The iPhone is struggling

0:35:58.360 --> 0:36:01.600
<v Speaker 3>in China. It's pretty much Apple's most important market for

0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:06.920
<v Speaker 3>the future, as are the surrounding countries right India, cross

0:36:06.960 --> 0:36:11.400
<v Speaker 3>Southeast Asia, et cetera. So all these Chinese companies are

0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:13.440
<v Speaker 3>going to get a lot of fans of their cars.

0:36:13.440 --> 0:36:14.880
<v Speaker 3>They're going to sell them cheap, They're going to get

0:36:14.920 --> 0:36:18.040
<v Speaker 3>them in the driveways of everyone. M Maybe they have

0:36:18.040 --> 0:36:19.960
<v Speaker 3>an iPhone today, but I can tell you they're going

0:36:20.040 --> 0:36:22.160
<v Speaker 3>to fall in love with those Chinese evs and they're

0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:25.440
<v Speaker 3>probably going to buy the phone and tech ecosystem that

0:36:25.480 --> 0:36:26.960
<v Speaker 3>corresponds to those evs one day.

0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:28.680
<v Speaker 2>Right, you want to be on all the same ecosystem

0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:31.120
<v Speaker 2>when I got the system. You know, a lot of

0:36:31.160 --> 0:36:36.680
<v Speaker 2>my really uh tech heavy friends or friends that understand

0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:40.600
<v Speaker 2>tech better than you know, the average layperson, they seem

0:36:40.640 --> 0:36:46.400
<v Speaker 2>to prefer you know, Windows or Android or LINEX or whatever.

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:50.839
<v Speaker 2>But I feel like the Apple ecosystem, the iOS is

0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:54.600
<v Speaker 2>so intuitive and so easy to use for most people.

0:36:54.760 --> 0:36:57.360
<v Speaker 2>Is there anyone else who really can compete? Is shall

0:36:57.400 --> 0:37:00.400
<v Speaker 2>me making something that's that good or I don't know

0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:04.279
<v Speaker 2>other manufacturers, but Samsung, you know, is anyone else making

0:37:04.320 --> 0:37:07.040
<v Speaker 2>something that is that easy to use and that addictive

0:37:07.080 --> 0:37:09.920
<v Speaker 2>in terms of getting sucked into the ecosystem, in.

0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:12.640
<v Speaker 3>Terms of sucking you into the ecosystem? Absolutely not. I mean,

0:37:12.680 --> 0:37:14.640
<v Speaker 3>Apple's the one that's able to pull you in from

0:37:14.680 --> 0:37:17.239
<v Speaker 3>their marketing, their features, how intuitive they are, the applications

0:37:17.239 --> 0:37:19.239
<v Speaker 3>and services they have available. But I can tell you

0:37:19.719 --> 0:37:23.279
<v Speaker 3>that a car could have the same effect, and that

0:37:23.440 --> 0:37:26.200
<v Speaker 3>is the risk for Apple. Any piece of the ecosystem

0:37:26.640 --> 0:37:29.799
<v Speaker 3>breaking open will open the floodgates, and so you need

0:37:29.840 --> 0:37:32.480
<v Speaker 3>to own every piece of the ecosystem. That's why even

0:37:32.520 --> 0:37:35.360
<v Speaker 3>though Apples smart speakers are some of the worst in

0:37:35.400 --> 0:37:37.720
<v Speaker 3>the industry, You've got to have them because if Amazon

0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:41.879
<v Speaker 3>Alexa is going to make it work, and Amazon one

0:37:41.920 --> 0:37:43.920
<v Speaker 3>day releases a tablet or a phone or a computer

0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:47.400
<v Speaker 3>or whatnot that's compelling enough. You're going to start losing

0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:50.520
<v Speaker 3>people if you're Apple. So owning every important aspect the

0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:54.400
<v Speaker 3>ecosystem is really important. And for now it's Apple CarPlay

0:37:54.560 --> 0:37:57.719
<v Speaker 3>in the automotive space. There'll be more partnerships there, but

0:37:57.760 --> 0:37:59.520
<v Speaker 3>at some point Apple's going to need it on the

0:37:59.600 --> 0:38:01.400
<v Speaker 3>road end to end experience.

0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:04.400
<v Speaker 2>I knew he would be an awesome guest.

0:38:04.520 --> 0:38:06.120
<v Speaker 1>I know, I want to have him back every month.

0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:07.520
<v Speaker 1>He fascinating.

0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:10.759
<v Speaker 2>He just knows so much. And I love the way,

0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:14.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's so quick to compute and spit out

0:38:14.560 --> 0:38:17.000
<v Speaker 2>an answer. You know, it's like having your own chat

0:38:17.040 --> 0:38:18.680
<v Speaker 2>GPT in human form.

0:38:19.239 --> 0:38:22.200
<v Speaker 1>That's a huge compliment. Yeah, I mean honestly, you know,

0:38:22.320 --> 0:38:24.640
<v Speaker 1>I know it's true. And I also love how he's

0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:28.720
<v Speaker 1>pretty straightforward, like he just says, yeah, Apple was arrogant.

0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:31.360
<v Speaker 1>There was a lot of hubris there. And no, I

0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:35.000
<v Speaker 1>don't think automakers should allow car play too to be

0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:38.160
<v Speaker 1>in the cars. That's definitely don't trust Apple. Like I

0:38:38.239 --> 0:38:40.279
<v Speaker 1>like how he's just very blunt about it.

0:38:40.400 --> 0:38:43.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I think he's one of these journalists who is

0:38:43.800 --> 0:38:47.879
<v Speaker 2>so smart and so good at his job. Yep, all right, cool,

0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:50.720
<v Speaker 2>what have you got coming up? Have you got anything? Yeah?

0:38:50.760 --> 0:38:54.399
<v Speaker 1>Well, this week is Freeze Week in La so it's

0:38:54.400 --> 0:38:57.280
<v Speaker 1>been a lot of art things. But last night I

0:38:57.360 --> 0:39:01.840
<v Speaker 1>went to this very cool party at the Chateau where

0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:07.840
<v Speaker 1>an artist, yes, char Marmal, we're an artist, an artist

0:39:07.880 --> 0:39:12.000
<v Speaker 1>named Anthony James put an Aston Martin Vanquish in this

0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:16.640
<v Speaker 1>huge light box with like infinity mirrors and amazing lights,

0:39:17.120 --> 0:39:20.600
<v Speaker 1>and they craned the car and the car, the four

0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:23.520
<v Speaker 1>thousand pound car and the six thousand pound light box

0:39:24.120 --> 0:39:28.160
<v Speaker 1>over Sunset Boulevard and dropped it by the pool at

0:39:28.200 --> 0:39:32.000
<v Speaker 1>the Chateau. It was very cool, and Anthony's a friend.

0:39:32.040 --> 0:39:34.120
<v Speaker 1>I've known him for many years, so it was really

0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:36.840
<v Speaker 1>cool to see that. And then that car and the

0:39:37.080 --> 0:39:40.760
<v Speaker 1>art display is going to be auctioned off for charity

0:39:41.920 --> 0:39:45.160
<v Speaker 1>in a few months to help with La fire relief

0:39:45.160 --> 0:39:47.320
<v Speaker 1>and rebuilding. So that was really cool.

0:39:48.320 --> 0:39:51.480
<v Speaker 2>That's awesome. So freeze, I thought you meant like it's cold,

0:39:51.520 --> 0:39:52.839
<v Speaker 2>but you're talking about.

0:39:52.719 --> 0:39:56.359
<v Speaker 1>FRII yeah, e it's the La Art Fair.

0:39:56.680 --> 0:40:00.560
<v Speaker 2>It's a freeze is a broad horizontal band of sculpted

0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:04.560
<v Speaker 2>or painted decoration, usually on a wall or a ceiling.

0:40:05.160 --> 0:40:06.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm just looking it up.

0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well that's yes, that is the definition of the word.

0:40:09.440 --> 0:40:12.520
<v Speaker 1>And also it's it's kind of like a mini art

0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:13.680
<v Speaker 1>basel in a way.

0:40:13.880 --> 0:40:17.040
<v Speaker 2>So why did this guy choose the Aston Martin? Is

0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:18.880
<v Speaker 2>he a car guy or so?

0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:21.279
<v Speaker 1>First of all, he's British, so he's got a sensitivity

0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:27.920
<v Speaker 1>for British automakers. But Anthony has owned tons of interesting

0:40:27.960 --> 0:40:29.799
<v Speaker 1>cars for years. When I first met him, he had

0:40:29.840 --> 0:40:33.800
<v Speaker 1>an eighty one Rolls Royce Corniche that he was driving around.

0:40:33.840 --> 0:40:38.480
<v Speaker 1>He's got a five or six Alpha Romeos at the

0:40:38.520 --> 0:40:41.080
<v Speaker 1>moment he's got I'm not gonna blow him up completely,

0:40:41.120 --> 0:40:45.960
<v Speaker 1>but he's owned Italian cars from other Italian brands. He

0:40:46.120 --> 0:40:51.600
<v Speaker 1>is actually a legitimate car guy, and so, you know,

0:40:51.640 --> 0:40:53.279
<v Speaker 1>I think this is just one of his things. He's

0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:58.879
<v Speaker 1>done a lot of this sort of endless infinity light

0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:01.560
<v Speaker 1>box thing. He's got a big sculpture at the pendry.

0:41:02.200 --> 0:41:04.960
<v Speaker 1>You might have seen it in sculptures. He just had

0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:08.040
<v Speaker 1>a big one and aspen installed, so they're everywhere. And

0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:10.799
<v Speaker 1>he actually when I first met him, he had put

0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:16.720
<v Speaker 1>a crashed Ferrari his own crashed Ferrari in a box,

0:41:17.320 --> 0:41:19.040
<v Speaker 1>a light box with some birch.

0:41:19.320 --> 0:41:21.480
<v Speaker 2>He crashed it.

0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:24.120
<v Speaker 1>It's unclear that I'm going to I'm going to plead

0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:26.920
<v Speaker 1>the fifth on that it may have might have, it

0:41:26.960 --> 0:41:29.880
<v Speaker 1>was damaged. I'm just gonna say the car was damaged.

0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:32.520
<v Speaker 1>And he put that in the It's very cool. You

0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:34.839
<v Speaker 1>can google it. So he's got a long history of

0:41:34.960 --> 0:41:37.680
<v Speaker 1>affinity for cars and.

0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:38.200
<v Speaker 2>We should have him on the show.

0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:40.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to get him on the show. I actually

0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:42.799
<v Speaker 1>mentioned it to him last night and he said he'd

0:41:42.920 --> 0:41:44.400
<v Speaker 1>be happy to come on. So we just got to

0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:47.000
<v Speaker 1>pick a date and he can tell us himself about

0:41:47.040 --> 0:41:47.800
<v Speaker 1>his love for cars.

0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:49.400
<v Speaker 2>All right, that sounds very cool.

0:41:49.520 --> 0:41:50.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was great.

0:41:50.920 --> 0:41:57.279
<v Speaker 2>I am off to Austin, first of twin trips to Austin. Yeah.

0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:01.200
<v Speaker 2>So I'm going to go down there and ride motorcycles

0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:04.839
<v Speaker 2>with the CEO of Well, actually I'm going to ride

0:42:04.880 --> 0:42:09.600
<v Speaker 2>the new Harley Davidson lineup and I was supposed to

0:42:09.640 --> 0:42:12.440
<v Speaker 2>go with the CEO of Harley Davis and Yolkin Sights,

0:42:13.640 --> 0:42:16.279
<v Speaker 2>but it's unclear now if Yolk is gonna go. They said,

0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:18.400
<v Speaker 2>you know what, he might he might not be coming.

0:42:18.840 --> 0:42:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Would you still be interested in riding our full lineup

0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:25.240
<v Speaker 2>if he doesn't join up, And I said, one hundred

0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:29.359
<v Speaker 2>percent absolutely yes, I still want I mean, the main

0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:30.839
<v Speaker 2>thing I want to do is ride the bikes, right,

0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:34.240
<v Speaker 2>But of course I would have loved to ask him

0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:38.160
<v Speaker 2>a million questions about you know, Harley stock has been

0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:40.919
<v Speaker 2>down and their sales have been down, and I want

0:42:40.920 --> 0:42:45.239
<v Speaker 2>to see them do well. I'm not I'm not I'm

0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:47.319
<v Speaker 2>not one hundred percent clear on why he can't make it,

0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:49.880
<v Speaker 2>but you know that Harley is being talked about in

0:42:50.000 --> 0:42:54.000
<v Speaker 2>terms of reciprocal tariffs. Now, last time Trump put on tariffs,

0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:57.759
<v Speaker 2>then Europe responded by putting big tariffs on Harley and

0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Levi's and Jack Daniels. And to me, this would be

0:43:00.719 --> 0:43:03.960
<v Speaker 2>a point of pride, right, that's you're one of the

0:43:04.000 --> 0:43:09.359
<v Speaker 2>most American products in the whole world, and you know

0:43:09.440 --> 0:43:13.480
<v Speaker 2>that's why they're doing that. And of course it hurts

0:43:13.520 --> 0:43:15.760
<v Speaker 2>more to people in Europe because they want to buy

0:43:15.880 --> 0:43:20.279
<v Speaker 2>that American product. In any case, I don't know exactly why,

0:43:20.320 --> 0:43:22.200
<v Speaker 2>and I hope still to talk to him, but I

0:43:22.239 --> 0:43:26.920
<v Speaker 2>also I don't know how this squares with my journal's integrity,

0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:31.040
<v Speaker 2>but I root for this company to come back right

0:43:31.160 --> 0:43:33.640
<v Speaker 2>as I want it to be an American success story.

0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:38.480
<v Speaker 2>I want the manufacturing business to grow. I want the

0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:43.040
<v Speaker 2>workers to have better, more solid, high paying jobs. Like

0:43:43.160 --> 0:43:47.120
<v Speaker 2>to me, we should all be rooting for Harley Davidson

0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:47.960
<v Speaker 2>to make a comeback.

0:43:48.360 --> 0:43:51.239
<v Speaker 1>You know what that makes me think? To me, the

0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:56.520
<v Speaker 1>biggest fans also have the right to be the biggest critics.

0:43:56.960 --> 0:44:00.920
<v Speaker 1>And you criticize and critique because you actually do careen

0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:03.680
<v Speaker 1>and it you know, you want it to do well,

0:44:03.719 --> 0:44:06.080
<v Speaker 1>you want it to do better than it is. And

0:44:06.120 --> 0:44:08.520
<v Speaker 1>you see that it can you know, and you're you're

0:44:08.560 --> 0:44:10.600
<v Speaker 1>pain that it's not. So I get that.

0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:12.839
<v Speaker 2>By the way, this is a company where it's really

0:44:12.880 --> 0:44:16.680
<v Speaker 2>easy to criticize, right because they they're selling basically nostalgia.

0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:21.800
<v Speaker 2>They're selling you like a nineteen, I don't know, sixties

0:44:21.880 --> 0:44:25.760
<v Speaker 2>or seventies ideal of this. You know, Born to Ride,

0:44:26.920 --> 0:44:30.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, easy rider. The guys coming back from World

0:44:30.200 --> 0:44:32.279
<v Speaker 2>War Two and this is you know, how they get

0:44:32.320 --> 0:44:35.480
<v Speaker 2>their freedom. And but they've got to do it in

0:44:35.520 --> 0:44:38.799
<v Speaker 2>a modern way, a more fuel efficient way. They've got

0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:41.759
<v Speaker 2>to put better, put out better horsepower numbers. You know,

0:44:41.920 --> 0:44:46.839
<v Speaker 2>everybody wants an engine that's you know, technologically advanced, but

0:44:47.040 --> 0:44:49.719
<v Speaker 2>I also still want this two liter lump. So I

0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:54.040
<v Speaker 2>feel like they're threading a needle in a really successful way.

0:44:54.760 --> 0:44:59.080
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I just uh, I'm just I'm just pretty

0:44:59.080 --> 0:45:01.080
<v Speaker 2>thrilled to be able to test the products.

0:45:01.400 --> 0:45:04.239
<v Speaker 1>That's great. I you know, I had a thought and

0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:07.360
<v Speaker 1>this is not directed at Harley Davidson at all, but

0:45:08.120 --> 0:45:12.160
<v Speaker 1>I also think it's possible for a company to have

0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:15.040
<v Speaker 1>a shelf life, you know, and this is again not

0:45:15.160 --> 0:45:19.879
<v Speaker 1>directed at any specific company, but not all companies are

0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:23.960
<v Speaker 1>going to exist forever and last forever, and if they

0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:28.880
<v Speaker 1>fail to adapt and evolve, they've got a shelf life.

0:45:29.200 --> 0:45:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, Yeah, for sure. And I mean you're seeing,

0:45:34.280 --> 0:45:37.320
<v Speaker 2>but you're seeing competitors come into this market. Obviously, Indian

0:45:37.400 --> 0:45:41.280
<v Speaker 2>came back years ago and has had varying degrees of success.

0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Ducati has tried to put up a fight against the

0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:47.880
<v Speaker 2>American cruisers with its xdavel and I don't know how

0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:51.440
<v Speaker 2>much success they've they've had with that. In general, the

0:45:51.440 --> 0:45:54.080
<v Speaker 2>motorcycle market is just a tough slog right now, and

0:45:54.160 --> 0:45:57.480
<v Speaker 2>has been since the Great Financial Crisis. I don't know

0:45:57.480 --> 0:46:02.160
<v Speaker 2>what's going to turn that around, but maybe I can

0:46:02.200 --> 0:46:02.839
<v Speaker 2>be part of it.

0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, I still would love to. Let's get some

0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:13.120
<v Speaker 1>electric vespas going. I'm being really come on.

0:46:14.360 --> 0:46:16.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure. I mean they are out there. The question

0:46:17.000 --> 0:46:21.960
<v Speaker 2>is right now, they're not really cost efficient the world.

0:46:22.800 --> 0:46:24.640
<v Speaker 1>Do you think the world would be a better place

0:46:24.680 --> 0:46:26.120
<v Speaker 1>if everybody rode a motorcycle?

0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, one hundred percent.

0:46:27.520 --> 0:46:28.799
<v Speaker 1>I do agree with that as well.

0:46:28.880 --> 0:46:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because you're not in that cage. You're not like

0:46:31.360 --> 0:46:33.760
<v Speaker 2>watching a movie. You're part of the movie. You're you're

0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:34.560
<v Speaker 2>in the scene.

0:46:34.640 --> 0:46:38.000
<v Speaker 1>People would drive very differently. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

0:46:38.080 --> 0:46:40.360
<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, it's been great talking to you today.

0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for joining us, so much fun.

0:46:43.680 --> 0:46:45.480
<v Speaker 2>All right, I'm Matt Miller

0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:48.040
<v Speaker 1>And I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg.