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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And

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Speaker 1: today we're gonna be starting up a series on the

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Speaker 1: subject of horror vakui, which can be translated directly as

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Speaker 1: fear of the void, but has also been paraphrased in

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Speaker 1: the form of the statement nature of horrors of vacuum. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think this is gonna be a great subject for us,

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Speaker 1: because this principle has facets that appear in art, psychology,

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Speaker 1: and all kinds of other domains. But it's often traced

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Speaker 1: all the way back in its origin to the scientific

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Speaker 1: writings of Aristotle in the fourth century b CE. Though

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Speaker 1: Aristotle did not use exactly this phrase, of course, how

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Speaker 1: could he. It's latin um. But he did argue in

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Speaker 1: his book on Physics that the con incept of a

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Speaker 1: vacuum in nature was implausible and in fact even worthy

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Speaker 1: of ridicule. Uh So this occurs in Aristotle's famous Physics.

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Speaker 1: This is book for part eight, though his attempted refutation

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Speaker 1: of vacuum physics spans several sections. I think it's like

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Speaker 1: parts six through nine of the book or so. And

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Speaker 1: it's interesting that Aristotle does not approach this subject from

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Speaker 1: kind of from first principles, but instead he approaches it

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Speaker 1: by entering an ongoing debate among other philosophers where there's

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Speaker 1: a camp arguing against the existence of empty space, and

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Speaker 1: that apparently contains figures like Anexagoras, and then there's a

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Speaker 1: camp that argues for the existence of empty space, and

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Speaker 1: that contains the Pythagorean school and others. So, in trying

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Speaker 1: to stake his own claim in this controversy, Aristotle makes

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Speaker 1: the argument that the existence of empty space is logically incoherent,

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Speaker 1: and this leads to a harsh joke at the expense

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Speaker 1: of space it's self. He writes, but even if we

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Speaker 1: consider it on its own merits, the so called vacuum

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Speaker 1: will be found to be really vacuous. Huh. That might

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Speaker 1: be funny or in ancient Greek. I'm not sure. So.

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Speaker 1: I think we'll come back specifically to the history of

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Speaker 1: horror vakay in physics in a subsequent part in this series.

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Speaker 1: But I thought this was a good place to start

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Speaker 1: because a lot of people seem to trace this general

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Speaker 1: idea back to Aristotle, and they often identify him as

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Speaker 1: sort of the grandfather of this tradition of being intolerant

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Speaker 1: of empty space or of the very idea of emptiness. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and just the whole idea that nature of whore is

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Speaker 1: a vacuum like it's you could you could also kind

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Speaker 1: of translated as, hey, anytime there's a place where stuff

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Speaker 1: isn't but stuff could be, well, guess where you're gonna

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Speaker 1: eventually find stuff right there? Um, And you know, you could.

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Speaker 1: You can apply that to economics, you can apply it

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Speaker 1: to evolution. Um, because for the most part, like various

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Speaker 1: interpretations of that hold very true. Yeah. And of course

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Speaker 1: there are tons of examples, uh, in in physics where

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Speaker 1: you can identify the sort of phenomenonomy if, for example, uh,

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Speaker 1: interpy particle entropy. If you take a rectangular container and

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Speaker 1: half of it is filled with gas and the other

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Speaker 1: half has no gas in it, Uh, if you just

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Speaker 1: like let it go on its own and do nothing

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Speaker 1: to it, eventually the gas will even out in distribution

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Speaker 1: and fill the entire container. That something about nature seems

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Speaker 1: to reject that that arbitrary starting point of division and

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Speaker 1: interpete tends to just have everything spread out even out

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Speaker 1: it doesn't want to let that emptiness remain. Yeah, or

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Speaker 1: um on the other end of the spectrum, if you

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Speaker 1: have an empty drawer or cabinet in your kitchen, um,

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Speaker 1: see how long that lasts. Because eventually, eventually something's gonna

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Speaker 1: come along and it's going to be the perfect place

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Speaker 1: to stick it. Right. But one big place where where

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Speaker 1: horror akui has been recognized throughout the years is in

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Speaker 1: the world of art, that's right. Yeah, And in this

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Speaker 1: we get into you have this softer treatment of the

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Speaker 1: vacuum of empty spaces and also a lot of I

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Speaker 1: think ultimately discussions are arguments over like what what constitutes

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Speaker 1: an empty space and so forth. But um, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: within the worlds of art and design, horror vacuate basically

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Speaker 1: comes down to a tendency to fill blank spaces instead

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Speaker 1: of leaving them empty. I've also seen it argued as

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Speaker 1: a kind of maximalism opposing minimalism. So you know, it's

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Speaker 1: like like I'm gonna I'm gonna create this painting or look,

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Speaker 1: you know, think of it. I guess from like like

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Speaker 1: a street art graffiti kind of standpoint, What am I

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Speaker 1: going to paint on this wall? And how much of

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Speaker 1: this wall am I going to paint? Well, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to paint all of it, and I'm gonna fill it

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Speaker 1: with with just so many things? Or are you is

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Speaker 1: it going to be mostly sort of a blank canvas

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Speaker 1: drawing your attention to the one I a songbird that

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Speaker 1: you've created at the middle of this uh street campus. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: for for my own part, and I imagine everyone out

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Speaker 1: there has some version of this, But for my own part,

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Speaker 1: my mind quickly goes to a few different handy examples.

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Speaker 1: Some of my favorite artists do seem to abhor the

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Speaker 1: vacuum on some level. For instance, I've I've long been

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Speaker 1: a fan of the dark surrealism of of Irving Norman,

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Speaker 1: and his work tended to consist of very complex, crowded,

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Speaker 1: dynamic expanses that had a lot of like urban and

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Speaker 1: industrial energy to them, um and and and so. It

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Speaker 1: has a lot of chaos, it has a lot of

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Speaker 1: soul listeness, and a lot of it is about sort

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Speaker 1: of capturing the spirit as he saw it of the

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Speaker 1: modern world. Oh, that's interesting that the connection to modernity,

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Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people over the years

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Speaker 1: have made this argument that something about how how culture

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Speaker 1: changes over time. Maybe a lot of this is driven

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Speaker 1: by technology results in the constant sort of ingress of

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Speaker 1: stuff into more and more uh previously unfilled spaces of

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Speaker 1: your your attentional life. So whereas life used to, at

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Speaker 1: least according to this argument, involve a lot more kind

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Speaker 1: of boredom and idleness and sort of sitting around with

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Speaker 1: your own thoughts, not having anything to do and and

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Speaker 1: things like that. Uh, now there's just like always something

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Speaker 1: to occupy you and occupy your attention. Yeah, and his

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Speaker 1: works in particular, they do have this feeling to them. Um.

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Speaker 1: The one I included for you to look at here,

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Speaker 1: and certainly listeners can look this piece up as well.

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Speaker 1: This is war and Peace. It's a triptych. And this

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Speaker 1: is a piece that I've gotten to see in person

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Speaker 1: that was on display in San Francisco at least for

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Speaker 1: a while. Big piece, and a piece like this is

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Speaker 1: great to see in person as well, because you get

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Speaker 1: to sort of get a little closer and check out

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Speaker 1: some of the many details that make it up. For instance,

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Speaker 1: one of the pieces here, you see all these buildings

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Speaker 1: and it like a a realistic view of skyscrapers in

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Speaker 1: each little window has somebody inside with like some sort

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Speaker 1: of paint or horrific or board expression on their face. Um.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, he he really seems to fill every available

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Speaker 1: space with some sort of detail. Mm hmm. Now they're

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Speaker 1: plently of older artists that come to mind. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: pre modern artist like Hieronymous Bosh comes to mind. Peter Brugal,

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Speaker 1: the Elder Um. Another contemporary example that I instantly think

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Speaker 1: of would be the visionary art of of Alex Gray.

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Speaker 1: You know, very psychedelic but also just filled with flow

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Speaker 1: and color, and there's just this sense of every available

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Speaker 1: space has been sort of engulfed by uh, energies that

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Speaker 1: cannot normally be viewed with the naked eye. Yeah. Now

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Speaker 1: you you raise Hieronymous Bosh, and that really got my

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Speaker 1: gears cranking because when it comes to horror Vakawy and Bosh.

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Speaker 1: I could be wrong, but I sense a trend in

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Speaker 1: his religious paintings where there's an association of business with

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Speaker 1: bad things, with chaos and sin, whereas empty space seems

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Speaker 1: to be more associated with order and godliness and righteousness.

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Speaker 1: So you know, hell is bustling and full and just

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Speaker 1: teeming with activity, whereas heaven or maybe the Garden of

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Speaker 1: Eden before the Fall is orderly and clean and has

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Speaker 1: plenty of empty space, plenty floor space. One example, of course,

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Speaker 1: I think of here is the Triptic The Last Judgment,

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Speaker 1: where if you see, you know, the Garden of Eden,

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Speaker 1: apparently a a time before sin, there's just a lot

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Speaker 1: of kind of empty ground, is like not a lot

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Speaker 1: going on. There's there's plenty of expanses that have yet

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Speaker 1: to be filled with anything. And also if you look

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Speaker 1: at the middle panel of the Triptic, there is war

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Speaker 1: and chaos and suffering and disease and violence and stuff

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Speaker 1: taking place down on Earth, and it's a very busy seen.

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Speaker 1: But up above you see Christ and the angels and

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Speaker 1: everything is very clean, and there's like not a whole

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Speaker 1: lot going on. There's a lot of empty space up

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Speaker 1: in the sky. Yeah, this is a great point. So

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Speaker 1: in a way, I wonder if that's kind of an

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Speaker 1: inverse horror vakawee where you know that that, like the

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Speaker 1: the vakawi is actually the indicator of goodness and orderliness,

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Speaker 1: and and you know, when there's too much stuff going on,

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Speaker 1: that's a sign that something has gone wrong, that that

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Speaker 1: order has broken down. But clearly this is not a

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Speaker 1: universal association within art or even within religious art. For example,

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Speaker 1: Dante's Paradiso seems to be anything but empty. You know,

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Speaker 1: the heavens in that vision are crammed with overwhelming, incomprehensibly

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Speaker 1: busy stimuli. There's you know, a lot of things where

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Speaker 1: He's just like, there was so much I couldn't understand

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Speaker 1: what I was looking at. Um. And in some versions

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Speaker 1: of gnosticism also the sort of ultimate ideal plane of

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Speaker 1: reality and the sum of all divine potential is called

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Speaker 1: the clear roma, which in Greek means fullness, the opposite

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Speaker 1: of emptiness or void, your example of here from the

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Speaker 1: last judgment, this this made me think about okay, and

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Speaker 1: at least in the middle part of it, you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, here we have a Christ appearing in the

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Speaker 1: sky and everything is a little more open, and we

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Speaker 1: see the blue and ultimately the white of of naked

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Speaker 1: sky there. And I was comparing this to some other

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Speaker 1: words that I'll mention a second. But it made me wonder, like,

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Speaker 1: when is the sky full and when is the sky empty? Um?

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Speaker 1: Because it seems like on some level a blue or

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Speaker 1: white sky in a painting is certainly a different animal

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Speaker 1: compared to say, a red sky, in the same way

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Speaker 1: that the standard wall color for a museum is usually,

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Speaker 1: at least today not black or red, but a nice

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Speaker 1: white or a muted gray. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: like a night sky is not necessarily like the darkness

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Speaker 1: of space is not necessarily understood to be uh full,

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Speaker 1: but I guess it could be depending on how you're looking.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly full of stars. Yeah, and specifically, I mean

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Speaker 1: the skies are, yeah, they're They're rendered in very different ways.

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Speaker 1: I mean sometimes the stars themselves are very busy. I

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Speaker 1: think of, I guess this is obvious to go to.

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Speaker 1: But the starry night yeah, yeah. Uh. And as as

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Speaker 1: far as Dante goes, I I instantly thought back to

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Speaker 1: Gustav dres Later so much later illustrations of the Divine Comedy.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes those do and sometimes they don't match up

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Speaker 1: with this general idea. Like there's one particularly famous image

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Speaker 1: from Dore's illustrations where we see um let's let see

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Speaker 1: um Dante and his his guy. Who's this guy in Paradisio.

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Speaker 1: It's uh in the Paradiso It's it's Beatrice. It's Beatrix. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's right. So it's it's Dante and Beatrice, and here

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Speaker 1: in front of them is just this incomprehensible. Uh. It's

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Speaker 1: almost like the eye of Sauron with with just multitudes

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Speaker 1: of swirling angelic beings all around it. Yeah, it's all

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Speaker 1: you're looking into, just a tunnel made of like nanotechnology,

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Speaker 1: except it's it's all angel wings. Yeah. And then there's

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Speaker 1: another one of Dora's illustrations where we see Dante and

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Speaker 1: b standing here on a cloud and we see multiple

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Speaker 1: rings of angels, And certainly there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: angels in each ring, but there's a lot more open space,

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Speaker 1: particularly above them, and there's an openness to that image

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Speaker 1: that you don't see in a lot of the Doray

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Speaker 1: illustrations of any of the three realms of the Divine Comedy. Agreed,

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Speaker 1: And so that that division, uh seems to be a

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Speaker 1: you know, whether you want to represent beauty and holiness

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Speaker 1: as as a kind of incredibly busy phenomenon or as

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Speaker 1: something with a lot of empty space in it. I

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Speaker 1: don't see an overwhelming trend one way or the other.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like a sort of a pretty

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Speaker 1: evenly divided issue of preference, because I think of tons

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Speaker 1: of paintings from all throughout history and all throughout different

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Speaker 1: cultures where empty space is clearly the thing that makes

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Speaker 1: the painting so beautiful or the art so beautiful. One

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Speaker 1: that came to my mind while we were getting ready

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Speaker 1: for this episode was there's a Chinese work of art

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Speaker 1: from I think the thirteenth century called on a Mountain

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Speaker 1: Path in Spring by Ma Yuan. Do you know that one?

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Speaker 1: Rob I have just pulled it up in front of me. Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is beautiful, and I'm not familiar with this piece. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One thing I really like about it, so to try

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Speaker 1: to describe it, shows like a man on a path

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Speaker 1: and there are sort of like some trees drooping over

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Speaker 1: around him, and there's a bird in flight up ahead

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Speaker 1: of him. Uh, and you see the ridges of some

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Speaker 1: mountains in in the background in one half of the painting.

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Speaker 1: But one thing I really love about this painting is

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Speaker 1: that essentially only half of it is filled in. So

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Speaker 1: behind the man you see the outlines of all these forms.

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Speaker 1: There are tree trunks, and uh, there's the path. You

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Speaker 1: see a little you know, ridges and indentations in the

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Speaker 1: ground and tree roots and shrubs, and you see the

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Speaker 1: mountains in the background, and then in the they're half

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Speaker 1: of the painting. Essentially all the forms just disappear and

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Speaker 1: it's almost entirely empty space except for a little suggestion

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Speaker 1: of the path continuing along on the ground and a bird.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's a beautiful piece, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I also want to mention that many of the

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Speaker 1: artists that one might point to and say, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is someone who definitely abhors the vacuum. Uh, they're they're

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Speaker 1: definitely a maximalist. You can also find plenty of examples

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Speaker 1: where they play with opening things up a little bit,

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Speaker 1: like even just uh, looking back through some of Irving

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Speaker 1: Norman's works, like, there are of some pieces where you

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Speaker 1: have fairly sizeable expanses of say sky, sometimes blue sky,

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Speaker 1: other times extremely blood red skies, but sky. Nonetheless, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what this is. So my my ruined, vulgar

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Speaker 1: mind looks at one of these paintings, the one with

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Speaker 1: the red sky, and I just think hell razor too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is a it is a hellish image.

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Speaker 1: M have some of those vibes to it, for sure.

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Speaker 1: I think it's that the red sky and then the

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Speaker 1: sort of like maze of walls beneath that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this one is called war Wounded Ends. That's another one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite pieces by Irving Norman. It is beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I apologize for the Barker comparison. No, no, no, I

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Speaker 1: mean I think it's happening. Thank, thank thank. I mentioned

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Speaker 1: the walls of of a museum earlier because I think

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Speaker 1: this is also key as well, because when you think

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Speaker 1: of gallery walls and even picture frames in a modern sense,

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Speaker 1: and we tend to think of a very minimalist um features, right.

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Speaker 1: The trend nowadays at least is, of course, the display

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Speaker 1: works of art in unassuming frames on largely blank walls,

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Speaker 1: with at least some amount of space between each work,

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Speaker 1: sort of give allow each work a little room to breathe.

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Speaker 1: But this was of course not always the fashion, and

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Speaker 1: isn't always the fashion. Maximalist and minimalist approaches are just

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Speaker 1: trends and ensure that the complex wallpaper may be pulled

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Speaker 1: away in the geometric wall to wall carpeting, maybe ripped

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Speaker 1: up from space, but given enough time, these things may

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Speaker 1: come back into fashion again and you'll get even crazier

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Speaker 1: wallpaper plastered back up and even more complex carpet installed

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Speaker 1: wall to wall. But there are some interesting properties involved,

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Speaker 1: like what does it do when you have something worth

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Speaker 1: looking at in the midst of white space? Uh? You know,

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Speaker 1: what does emptiness? What does the void do? And there's

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Speaker 1: an offsided quote from art historian Ernst Gombric of nineteen nine,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one uh, in which he stated, quote,

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Speaker 1: the richer the elements of the frame, the more the

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Speaker 1: center will gain in dignity. I believe this is a

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Speaker 1: part of his theory of perception, and I think I

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Speaker 1: think it's a pretty insightful statement, and we can we

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Speaker 1: can apply it to the blank walls behind a canvas,

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Speaker 1: to the assuming picture frame, or even elements within a

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Speaker 1: given work where the busy aspects of a piece focus

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Speaker 1: our attention towards something more open, like for instance, Christ

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Speaker 1: floating in the sky above. Uh, this otherwise chaotic scene

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Speaker 1: and painting by Bosh. Oh, that's kind of interesting. So

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Speaker 1: that might explain the popularity of these very ornate, highly

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Speaker 1: textured you know, frames around paintings with all these ridges

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Speaker 1: and swirls and so forth. Yeah, and certainly you will

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Speaker 1: you will often encounter, even in modern museums, sometimes these

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Speaker 1: older pieces that are still in very ornate frames. And

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Speaker 1: I'm always interested in that because, I guess because it

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Speaker 1: kind of throws me for a curve comparing it to

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Speaker 1: more modern works and modern framing. UM. And then you'll

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Speaker 1: encounter this piece that has some sort of picture frame

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Speaker 1: that I mean could arguably be seen as distracting from

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Speaker 1: the piece itself, but but maybe not maybe guiding you

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Speaker 1: in now. As far as the term horror vacuie goes,

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Speaker 1: depending on tastes and trends, you'll see it in the

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Speaker 1: art world, sometimes invoked as praise, other times invoked as criticism. UM.

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Speaker 1: Take the the often dizzy art of Jackson Pollock of

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Speaker 1: nineteen twelve through nineteen fifty six. UM. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: a prime example of this duality. Even though not all

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Speaker 1: of his works abhore the vacuum, you'll find you'll find

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Speaker 1: a little space in some of his pieces, and I

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Speaker 1: think maybe those are the ones that I I may

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Speaker 1: be a little more drawn to. Oh, but you mean that,

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Speaker 1: Like critics have described it in terms of horror vakay

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Speaker 1: both positively and negatively, like this is good because it

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Speaker 1: sates my horror vakawee, or this is bad because it's

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Speaker 1: just a product of horror Vaki. Yeah, yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: think and I think in the case of of of Pollock,

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Speaker 1: and people are more familiar with art criticism out there

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Speaker 1: that make and can chime in on this. But it

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Speaker 1: seems like you see it invoked more as a criticism,

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Speaker 1: you know, almost like, well, there's clearly this artist is

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Speaker 1: afraid of the vacuum. Other Wise they would have given

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Speaker 1: us a little more space. But I don't know, even

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Speaker 1: the really busy Jackson polite pieces, which which I think

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Speaker 1: I have also had the chance to see in person,

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Speaker 1: some of these pieces like they really need to see

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Speaker 1: in person, because you do get it's a similar situation.

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Speaker 1: You can take it all in, but you can step

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Speaker 1: a little closer and sort of look at just some

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Speaker 1: of the closer details, and it's really enthralling. Now. The

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Speaker 1: term has also been used to describe cultural artistic traditions.

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Speaker 1: I've seen it used to describe the work of the

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Speaker 1: ancient Egyptians, as well as the trend in Islamic art

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Speaker 1: towards the expansive use of geometric patterns. Apparently, however, the

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Speaker 1: originator of the term in art criticism itself was Italian

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Speaker 1: born art and literature critic Mario praz Who of eighteen

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Speaker 1: ninety six through two, who used it mostly to slam

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Speaker 1: the cluttered visual interior design one sees particularly of in

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Speaker 1: Victorian households. Victorian design. Uh Joe I included a uh

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Speaker 1: sort of stereotypical image of a victor, of a rich

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Speaker 1: Victorian sitting room here, and I think it raises the

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Speaker 1: question is this too busy? Or is this just comfy?

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Speaker 1: Is this? Is this like hoarded fancy items? Or is

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Speaker 1: this somebody who want to do surround themselves with the

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Speaker 1: things they like and sort of warm themselves in the

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Speaker 1: glow of those things. So so the critical idea here

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Speaker 1: could be, yeah, like is there too much patterned wallpaper,

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Speaker 1: too much patterned upholstery on the furniture, too many little

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Speaker 1: do d ads all over the place. It's just the

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Speaker 1: room is too busy. You should live in a roth coo. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I guess one of the things that really comes

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Speaker 1: out and thinking about in terms of art is, of course,

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Speaker 1: art criticism is generally highly subjective, and so also is

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Speaker 1: the the use of a term like horror of vacuie

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Speaker 1: in terms of of art and design, or any kind

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Speaker 1: of creative endeavor and uh in film is not immune

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Speaker 1: to this. Um. I was really excited by this because

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Speaker 1: I was looking around for I don't think I was

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Speaker 1: even particularly looking for something about film, but I ran

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Speaker 1: across discussion of horror vacuie in Jollo films. Yes, Vangoria Magazines.

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Speaker 1: Alexandra Helen Nicholas has written film criticism discussing the subject

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Speaker 1: of horror vacuie in Jollo films. The book in question,

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Speaker 1: which I haven't had time to read in full yet,

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Speaker 1: but what I've read so far is is quite good.

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Speaker 1: It's the Jollo canvas art excess and horror cinema shallow

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Speaker 1: is absolutely a genre of excess, and that is part

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Speaker 1: of what makes it so enticing. Is it's just unrestrained

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Speaker 1: expressiveness and gaudiness. Yeah, yeah, it's Um, it's this of course,

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Speaker 1: largely we're dealing with the tag in cinema here, though

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Speaker 1: though it's influence becomes such that it spills out into

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Speaker 1: European cinema in general and also has a big influence

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Speaker 1: on the global slasher genre. Uh yeah, it's generally stylish

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Speaker 1: to some degree gratuitous. Uh you know, it's flashy and

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Speaker 1: uh so Hella Nicholas here points out that naturally, uh

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Speaker 1: horror vacaie doesn't just apply to highbrow art. She cites

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Speaker 1: the illustrations of Robert Crumb as an example, and then

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Speaker 1: points to a couple of other horror cinema examples possible

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Speaker 1: examples such as Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Uh, particularly than the

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Speaker 1: original Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Particularly I believe she was pointing out, uh,

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Speaker 1: these some of these early scenes where we're not even

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Speaker 1: getting into the blood and the excess um, but just

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Speaker 1: like scenes where the the inside of the Chainsaw Massacre

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Speaker 1: household is just cluttered with all sorts of of you know,

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Speaker 1: uncanny items like skulls and bird bones and knickknacks. And

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Speaker 1: she also points to some other examples where there's like

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Speaker 1: just where it's a similar situation where a lot of

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Speaker 1: disturbing stuff sort of thrown at you so fast and

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Speaker 1: and and you don't general rule in in the horror,

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Speaker 1: you know, don't don't show the monster too long, don't

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Speaker 1: show the gore effect too long, and it can kind

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Speaker 1: of overpower you like, overpowers the circuits with unease or revulsion.

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Speaker 1: But to read a quick quote here quote in Jallo cinema.

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Speaker 1: While certainly not lacking in moments of excessive blood and guts,

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Speaker 1: excessive nudity, etcetera, it is also just as much frequently

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Speaker 1: marked by an excess of style through color, music, nis

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Speaker 1: on sin and even performance styles. These films, too, are

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Speaker 1: marked by a sense of too muchness, an excess we

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Speaker 1: can loosely align with this tradition of horror vacoe. That

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Speaker 1: is an excellent description of Jalo and what makes it

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Speaker 1: so special that the core stylistic feature of it is

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Speaker 1: too muchness. It's just a lot in every possible way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, but even just thinking

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Speaker 1: about this made me think of various stills from any

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Speaker 1: Seven Suspiria by a Dario Argento where there's just there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of too muchness in in the film, even

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Speaker 1: the shots that are not bloody shots. There are several

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Speaker 1: really bloody shots that are just overpowering the senses. But

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Speaker 1: also other scenes that have like a Mario Bava hyper

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Speaker 1: color realm sensibility to it, or just like a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of lines and shapes thrown at you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of interior designs. Wall. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's wallpaper, but painted walls with busy designs, you know,

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Speaker 1: just fixtures and artworks and just stuff everywhere. It is

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Speaker 1: not a minimalist looking film. Yeah. Now, now speaking of film,

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Speaker 1: I also and looking at all this, I couldn't help

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Speaker 1: but think of movie posters as well. Uh, sort of

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Speaker 1: the difference between it and an exciting pact maximalist a

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Speaker 1: movie poster versus the minimalist movie poster, which was certainly

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Speaker 1: a design trend not too long ago, maybe in the

427
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: last ten years. And I guess there's still a lot

428
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: of it going on, maybe not at the professional level,

429
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: but sort of as a design exercise and art exercise

430
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: among other folks. Yeah. Like like you know, I think

431
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 1: of posters by American artist Drew Strussan, who did uh

432
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: poster art for Blade Runner, various Star Wars films, also

433
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: the N seven Killer Worm movie Squirm. Uh. These are

434
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: all three poster examples, and you can look these up

435
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: where there's just a lot packed into the image. They're

436
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: they're beautiful and they seem to overflow with the energy

437
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: of those films, be at the drama, the sort of

438
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: neon intrigue of something like like Blade Runner, or just

439
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: the monstrous squirminess of squirm. Yeah, well, there's a lot

440
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: of actors heads, so they're trying to pack actual marketing

441
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: information into the painting. You're gonna see here here all

442
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: the actors that you know and love that are going

443
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: to get you into the theater. But also they're trying

444
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: to give you some information about the plot, so you

445
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: will see like moments or scenes from the movie in

446
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: the poster. But then also, yeah, like you say, they're

447
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: trying to suggest the uh, I don't know, the kind

448
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: of like throbbing energy of the movie. Like the horror

449
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: ones are going to have a kind of a squirm

450
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: nous to them, you know, kind of like a kind

451
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: of queasy light coming off of them, whereas the the

452
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: sci fi action movies have this glow as if from

453
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: stars in the background or something. Yeah, and with something

454
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: like squirm, they're they're they're not really any big name

455
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 1: actors in that. You're not trying to market it that way,

456
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: so you pull back on the the identifiable faces and

457
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: heads and you just focus on the squirm nous of

458
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: the picture. Now, I really did enjoy a lot of

459
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: those recent redesigns of classic movie posters, but in minimalist form. Though,

460
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: I think that works a lot better for movies that

461
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: people already know and love than it does for movies

462
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: that nobody's ever seen before. Like when when you're advertising

463
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: a movie and you're trying to like catch people's eye

464
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,239
Speaker 1: and make them see it, that seems like when you

465
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: really do actually want to try to cram a bunch

466
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: of stuff into the poster to like cast a lot

467
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: of lines essentially like oh do you like this actor?

468
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: Their faces on there somewhere. Yeah. Like I was looking

469
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 1: around for minimal examples of all three of these films

470
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: that I just mentioned. I found that, you know, there

471
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 1: are a lot of them that have been created for

472
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: Blade Runner in the Star Wars films. But I found

473
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: an episode three poster for Star Wars and they did

474
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: the smart thing of basically invoking the shape of Darth

475
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: Vader's head. Like, that's an that's an easy one. You

476
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: can go super minimalist on that because it's a very

477
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: identifiable character outline. Yes, totally. I really like this one

478
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: for Blade Runner that is just a yellow background with

479
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: a black sort of minimalist geometric rendering of the Origami unicorn. Yeah,

480
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 1: it's a it's more of I think, maybe on the

481
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: cute level, where it's like, oh, okay, I see what

482
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: they were going. Oh yeah, that's right, that's from the movie,

483
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: a little detail and kind of a wink to folks

484
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: who remember it. But I also found, surprisingly, and I

485
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: got this off of the Telltale mind dot com. They

486
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: have a blog both there where it's Squirm nineteen seventy six,

487
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: Sorry I got I may have gotten that the year

488
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: wrong and scoring there, but Scorm nineteen seventy six the

489
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: visuals where they have a whole bunch of promotional visuals

490
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: from the film and a lot of it's very squirmy.

491
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: Um there was one one particular international uh poster or

492
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: one sheet or or or lobby card here this just

493
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: absolutely loaded with worm images. But then there is strangely

494
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: a single one that that has just the words squirm

495
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: with kind of an interesting font. I guess that looks

496
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: like maybe it was written by a worm that had

497
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: been dipped in ink and it just says scorned. The

498
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: monster is seventy six in cursive, yeah in in in

499
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: worm curson. If I guess, like I said, I think

500
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: a worm maybe is supposed to have made that s

501
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: so I don't know all of this is subjective again,

502
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: but it it does make you think about you know what, well,

503
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: what the difference is between cranking it up and pulling

504
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: back on it. And certainly when it comes to the

505
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: use of empty spaces or perceived empty spaces and visual

506
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: design than now. I also think it's very interesting to

507
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: think about this concept in UM so called visionary art

508
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: and psychedelic art and then also psychedelic cinema UM, because

509
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, think of either of these categories and you

510
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: often think of dizziness. While the psychedelic experience itself, of

511
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: course is going to vary greatly. There is often a

512
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: description of images and ideas filling the blank or the empty.

513
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: Things that don't have meaning take on heightened meaning. UM

514
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: surfaces crawl, move and breathe, And from an AI perspective,

515
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: I suppose the now sort of out of fashion al

516
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: I don't hear as much about it. A Google Deep

517
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: dream kind of created a version of this with its

518
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: tendency to find dog faces in every thing. So any

519
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: given image, any even like a blank background, would suddenly

520
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: become faintly alive with intertwined cute dog faces. Yeah, like

521
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: you take a picture of a lawnmower and the you know,

522
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: the starter button is a pug's face, and the uh

523
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: and the and the wheels will become little gold nurch

524
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: reever is. It's cute. Yeah, but it makes me think

525
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: too about just the human tendency to define patterns and

526
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: to fill emptiness with meaning and things. Even in the

527
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: case of deprivation, you know, some sort of sensory deprivation

528
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: scenario or some sort of isolation scenario, the mind eventually

529
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: starts finding details where they are not details, you know,

530
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: sometimes to harmful degrees. M And there there are a

531
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: lot of treatments of this too in in in various

532
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: papers I was running across. You know, you get into

533
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: whole discussions of say, marketing, Um, how do you fill

534
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: your show window at at a at a at a

535
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 1: fancy of fashion store or a clothing store. Do you

536
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: just fill it up with the various items you're you're selling? Um?

537
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: And you certainly see this approach in some shop store windows.

538
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: Or do you have like that one piece and lots

539
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: of blank space, open space, or maybe you know a

540
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: few splashes of color. Uh. You know, there are arguments

541
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: to be made for both sides. They are also a

542
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: very specific arguments about what kind of clientele are being

543
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: attracted to this store window versus another. Well, yeah, and

544
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: that's interesting because it brings us to I would say

545
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: that there is a fairly consistent thread of class association

546
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: with maximalist versus minimalist design um, which is that minimalist

547
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: designs are more often associated with wealth. Yeah. I think

548
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: one classic example of that is, of course, the the

549
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: upscale dinner plate versus the I don't know, the comfort

550
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: food dinner plate. The comfort food dinner plates they filled

551
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: from an all you can eat buffet. Uh June only

552
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: is a is a pretty pretty loaded dish. There's not

553
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: a lot of white space remaining on that dish. Meanwhile,

554
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: what do you think of when you think of of

555
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: true upscale dining? What do you think of when you

556
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: think of, say, the recent film The Menu, which is uh,

557
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, very much a send up in parody of

558
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: the high dining experience in the business and culture surrounding it.

559
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: You think of a whole bunch of of of empty

560
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: plate and like maybe like a few piles or puddings

561
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: or some sort of very interesting plating of the dish

562
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: that doesn't take up too much real estate. Yeah, you

563
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: will see a lot of plate. This also made me

564
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: think about something that anybody out there has any any

565
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: dealings with newspaper pagination or I guess design in general,

566
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: any kind of like design and layout, and that is

567
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: the subject of of not only white space, but trapped

568
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: white space. For those of you unaware that the general

569
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: rule has long been when it comes to a newspaper page,

570
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: there doesn't have to be an endless cascade of text

571
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,239
Speaker 1: and images taking up every space on the page. You

572
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: can have some white space in there, you know, give

573
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: your features and your images and your text a little

574
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: room to breathe. But while you can have white space,

575
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: you do not want to have trapped white space. So

576
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: you can think of it this way, like your your

577
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: text and your images, this is all one continent or island.

578
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: And it's okay to have inlets and harbors, uh that

579
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: have white in them, that you know, that are accessible

580
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 1: to the outer void. But you don't want lakes and

581
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: pools of trapped white space within the piece. And you know,

582
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: I think it's tempting from either side, if you're inside

583
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: the world of pagination and design or outside of it too.

584
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: On some level wonder, well, this is really makes sense

585
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: or is this just a standard? This is just this

586
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 1: is just what they have told us to do, This

587
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: is just the style. But I think there is a

588
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: pretty strong argument to be made that the thing is spaces,

589
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: uh draw our attention. Spaces can be used effectively if

590
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: they're they're used on purpose. They can be used to

591
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: sort of heighten the message of other things in the

592
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: visual design. But if you include them sort of slap dash,

593
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: if you include them by accident, then all you're doing

594
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 1: is drawing the eyes away from important content or content

595
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: that you want to be seen is important, towards just

596
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: absolute nothing that has no you know, it's you're not

597
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: heightening anything. You're just drawing eyes away from what they

598
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,959
Speaker 1: should be looking at. By point of comparison, I would

599
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: say that rests moments of silence are used on purpose

600
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: and music to heighten the effect of what is there.

601
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: You know, rests are one of the most important things

602
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: in making music good. But you would not want blank

603
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: space inserted haphazard lee without that kind of intention in

604
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: the middle of a song might be okay. Between songs

605
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: on a record, you wouldn't want it just going in

606
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: between verses there, let's just have a break for a

607
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: few seconds. Yeah, unless it's like the break if you're

608
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: listening to some drumming bass or something and you need

609
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: you know, everything reaches a point and then it stops.

610
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: Then you know what's going to happen next, a massive

611
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: change and like high energy is going to occur. But

612
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: that's meaningful white space, like it's reading your attention. Yeah,

613
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: that's the rest, so I I yeah, I totally understand.

614
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: I think the same is true for the design layout

615
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: of of a page in a magazine or a newspaper,

616
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: if you just have meaningless space in between the contents

617
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: that that kind of throws you off. You're like, wait,

618
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: why is that there? I imagine, Uh, maybe we can

619
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: hear from from folks out in the restaurant world. I'm

620
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: sure they're there are rules about this concerning the plating

621
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: of food too, because I bet you don't want to

622
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: have trapped white space on the plate in some form

623
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: or another, Like you don't want it to look like

624
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: something goes, something has been admitted from the plate, you know,

625
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: like well where did the pork chop go? Like that's

626
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: the space clearly where a pork chop could go. That's

627
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: the only interpretation my mind can make of it. That's funny.

628
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure some pretentious chef has tried that. We just

629
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: doughnut shaped platings of food. So that's all. I I

630
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: feel like everything I just said maybe kind of a

631
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: ramble and covered a go lot of ground. But I

632
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: guess the the basic take home from all of this

633
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 1: is the vacuum, the void and emptiness, white space, whatever

634
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: however you're describing it or or encountering it, especially in

635
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: a visual sense, like it it has, it has meaning

636
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: one way or or another, like it's not a completely

637
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: neutral thing one could even, I guess, get into the

638
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,479
Speaker 1: world of literature, right and printed books. You know, um

639
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: what what is the feeling of the blank space at

640
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: the end of a chapter, between chapters or it's often

641
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Speaker 1: been discussed. Writers will discuss like the horror of the

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Speaker 1: blank page when they can't think of something to write,

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Speaker 1: and so forth, like the horror of that kind of void.

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Speaker 1: You know, I have a whole tangent that I want

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Speaker 1: to get in to about horror akue in cartography and

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Speaker 1: map making, which is very much related to fear of

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Speaker 1: the void in art. But raises some fresh issues of

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Speaker 1: its own. But looking at the time, I think we've

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Speaker 1: got a cap today's episode here, and so we will

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Speaker 1: get into that in the next episode in the series.

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Speaker 1: All right, so yes, join us for more discussions of

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Speaker 1: the Void on the next episode of Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: Your Mind. Reminder that two season thursdays of the days

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Speaker 1: when we publish our core episodes of the show. On

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00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: Monday's we do listener mail, on Wednesday's we do a

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00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: short form artifact or monster fact, and on Friday's we

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Speaker 1: do Weird how Cinema. That's our time to set aside

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Speaker 1: most serious concerns and just talk about a weird film.

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Speaker 1: Huge thanks to our audio producer J J. Paseway. If

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Speaker 1: you would like to get in touch with us with

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Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a

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00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you

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00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your

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Speaker 1: Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio with the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen me to your favorite shows