Speaker 1: Dreamline rotation me Brandon Adina Menzel, could you imagine? Oh
Speaker 1: my god. Also, I mean Michelle Fiper, Viola Davis and
Speaker 1: Jillian Anderson are also very dreamline rotations. Okay, I'm in
Speaker 1: the middle of a pretty disgusting experience that I also
Speaker 1: am completely in love with, which is I'm rewatching Girls.
Speaker 1: And this was inspired by the fact that I've been
Speaker 1: seeing Hunter Harris watching it and she's been tweeting about it.
Speaker 1: It was just the tenth anniversary of the show's premiere,
Speaker 1: and I realized I hadn't watched Girls in years, and
Speaker 1: I did. Bully Fran also into rewatching. Well, here's here's
Speaker 1: what here's what actually happened, because I mean, obviously Hunter Harris,
Speaker 1: you know the impact. And so when she rewatches something,
Speaker 1: now the culture is rewatching something, and when we're seeing
Speaker 1: her tweet about Marnie's music video and like, I want
Speaker 1: to watch Marty's music and when the culture is rewatching things,
Speaker 1: that's when I want to rewatch. But I will say,
Speaker 1: when I started to see the Girls tweets from you,
Speaker 1: I was like, as your friend, I don't support this.
Speaker 1: It's literally gotten in the way of me consuming any
Speaker 1: other kind of culture like the Flight Attendants season two premiered,
Speaker 1: which I was so excited for and I haven't watched
Speaker 1: it yet because I've just been rewatching Girls. We need
Speaker 1: to watch that together. Actually we should watch it tomorrow.
Speaker 1: We do. Um. Basically, I judged was very hard and
Speaker 1: I said I don't support this, and within twenty four
Speaker 1: hours I was like, actually I'm gonna We were we
Speaker 1: were we were texting about it and you were and
Speaker 1: I was saying, Fran, we should do an episode on Girls,
Speaker 1: and I said no, And then the next text and
Speaker 1: then the next things I got from you was I
Speaker 1: wish I was this cool when I was twenty three.
Speaker 1: Well it was also like I think the biggest motivator
Speaker 1: for me was Adam Givers sex scenes. But anyways, we'll
Speaker 1: get into it. Well, yes, because today we're talking about Girls,
Speaker 1: the HBO series created by Lena Them and we're going
Speaker 1: to you know, look at it throughout lens ten years
Speaker 1: and so much has changed. Because this is like a
Speaker 1: virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
Speaker 1: I'm ros Damo and I'm Fran Grato. Um, we have
Speaker 1: like slightly less topical stuff to talk about today because
Speaker 1: we are recording this all at once, and the reason
Speaker 1: we're doing that is because tomorrow is Fran's birthday. It
Speaker 1: is tomorrow upon this record, not tomorrow when this podcast. Yes,
Speaker 1: so by the time you all listen to it, she
Speaker 1: will be forty five sited, yes, years young. Unfortunately for you,
Speaker 1: we probably have not consumed a lot of the pop
Speaker 1: culture you would expect us to be talking about, as
Speaker 1: in we we have not watched the Drag Race finale. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I have. I have watched half of it,
Speaker 1: but I don't know who wins yet. And I know
Speaker 1: who wins, but I haven't watched it yet. And you
Speaker 1: haven't spoiled it for me, which doesn't mean I have not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know how the internet hasn't spoiled it for you.
Speaker 1: Um well, I've been staying. We're at a party full
Speaker 1: of queer people. Last night. No one like shouted out
Speaker 1: yeah so last yeah, okay, so last night was gorgeous, gorgeous,
Speaker 1: some a little. It was like a pre birthday party,
Speaker 1: but a monthly like kind of queer party. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to do here in Los Angeles, raging success. Everyone had
Speaker 1: so much fun. The girls that did the drag Laurel
Speaker 1: Charleston and Mother Teresa were like, unreal, Teresa did this
Speaker 1: version of Um Britney spears hit Me, Bade Me one
Speaker 1: More Time that like starts out like slow acapella, and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, someone's going to do like an acapella Britney.
Speaker 1: That's like interesting as like a drag piece. And then
Speaker 1: this song gets like progressively like slower and like kind
Speaker 1: of like moody warped like dark um and everyone was
Speaker 1: losing their goddamn minds. But yeah, shockingly, did not get
Speaker 1: drag Race spoiled for me last night. Wow, I'm so
Speaker 1: happy that you haven't. And let me tell you, I
Speaker 1: don't really care someone spoiler. I don't think I would care,
Speaker 1: Like it's there was nothing. So I've watched the first
Speaker 1: half and all of the performances are kind of like
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I hate the fact that
Speaker 1: they're going back to original song. So if you don't know,
Speaker 1: they are like allah season six, seven and eight, the
Speaker 1: girls are doing like drag Race written songs out there
Speaker 1: like I did I did hear? I did hear my
Speaker 1: friend who spoiled the ending for me? Um who was
Speaker 1: talking me through a sort of emotional unraveling I was
Speaker 1: happening last night. Um did walk me through how the
Speaker 1: finale unfold and it sounds very boring. I don't think
Speaker 1: the return to this format was really the move. I
Speaker 1: think it was nice to try and shake it up,
Speaker 1: but I just hate the song. Well. I also think
Speaker 1: this is an interesting take. Anythink fran Uni should cover
Speaker 1: your ears for this? Okay? Okay, I think that the
Speaker 1: finale was engineered in a way to set up the
Speaker 1: person who won to win. And that's all I'll say
Speaker 1: about that. Okay, you can. You can uncover your ears. Now.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else happening in the world we should
Speaker 1: talk about? I mean, like, um, what do we What
Speaker 1: did you watch this week? Just girls? That's it. That's
Speaker 1: what I did. Read a book in one day last weekend. Um.
Speaker 1: I read this book that I'm pretty sure is One
Speaker 1: Direction fan fiction. How did that happen? Um? It's because
Speaker 1: I saw it on book Talk and I know my
Speaker 1: sisters who are like current Harry Style stands and used
Speaker 1: to be one direction ars. You used to read Harry
Speaker 1: Styles fan fiction. And there's this book called If This
Speaker 1: Comes Out, and it's about two boy band members who
Speaker 1: fall in love. That sounds kind of great. And I
Speaker 1: read it in a day because no, it's not good.
Speaker 1: I rated it three stars on good Reads. It was
Speaker 1: definitely very easy to get through. It was a diverting
Speaker 1: way to spend an afternoon. Um, but no, it's not good.
Speaker 1: You know what else is not great? The pilot of
Speaker 1: First Lady. Have you? Oh no, I haven't watched it
Speaker 1: because I've heard it's bad, babe. I So here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I am going to watch the rest of the show
Speaker 1: because from like all the previews, it looks like it's
Speaker 1: going to get better and juicier, like good melodrama. And
Speaker 1: I do actually think that the portraits of these three
Speaker 1: women are stunning because the actresses doing it are stunning.
Speaker 1: Viola Davis's impression of Michelle Obama is getting a little
Speaker 1: flak right now because, um, she's kind of overdoing a
Speaker 1: very specific lip. Person. Have you seen the memes about this?
Speaker 1: I saw the me I saw the meme that she
Speaker 1: liked of like the fast food workers sitting on side
Speaker 1: after their shift, and it was like Vio Davis's lips
Speaker 1: between takes, and she liked it on Twitter. She liked it,
Speaker 1: I have to like, Okay, so an even though you
Speaker 1: can't see it, so I have to say that she's
Speaker 1: getting a lot of flak I personal from watching the show.
Speaker 1: I actually still think that the Obama portrayal is stunning.
Speaker 1: I think that she looks and sounds and feels exactly
Speaker 1: like Michelle Obama. But the script is just not good,
Speaker 1: and I feel like Viola Davis is having a hard
Speaker 1: time doing what she needs to do because the script
Speaker 1: is so bad. And then on top of that, I
Speaker 1: do think the lip person thing is like a little
Speaker 1: and ol even though Michelle Obama does do that. We
Speaker 1: are laughing at a tweet. We'll post it on the Burner.
Speaker 1: I gotta wait. We need to tell the Virgins about
Speaker 1: our burner. So we have a we have a burner
Speaker 1: Instagram that you should follow it. No, no, not should.
Speaker 1: You must listen to this. You will follow it and
Speaker 1: share things from it because it's at like a virgin
Speaker 1: for that's at like a virgin for on Instagram. Yes,
Speaker 1: and it is Fran myself and our producer Phoebe just
Speaker 1: ship posting our little asses off. Yeah, and we'll do
Speaker 1: memes of the week. The account only follows for people,
Speaker 1: Fran myself, Phoebe, and Adida Mentell. And so right now
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the home page and it has like
Speaker 1: the people's stories at top, and it's just Fran Rose
Speaker 1: and Indiana Love the Idina makes stories. That's so nice. Um,
Speaker 1: well she's talking about Earth Day, yeah, oh lovely love
Speaker 1: that from you know, climate change frozen. So anyways, just
Speaker 1: to tell you the rest about this, Michelle Peiffer plays
Speaker 1: Betty Ford, which like someone I never paid attention to,
Speaker 1: someone I don't know as like a American figure. That's Betty.
Speaker 1: Betty Ford is the one with the clinic, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's the one with the clinic. Is it
Speaker 1: for eating disorders or drugs? I don't know. I actually
Speaker 1: don't know. I haven't done even a cursory google on
Speaker 1: Betty for it. Um, but because I will either way,
Speaker 1: I hope they get the help they need. I will say,
Speaker 1: I'd be curious to know what the virgins think. But
Speaker 1: the pilot is not good. Literally, nothing happens. The script
Speaker 1: is so boring. There's no like engine or real steaks
Speaker 1: established in these three women's lives, and it's like what
Speaker 1: like it was just such a bad beginning to what
Speaker 1: a show that has so much potential but I don't know.
Speaker 1: I've hoped for the previous. So when you watch it,
Speaker 1: I would love to hear your opinions, and as well,
Speaker 1: I think we should try and watch it. Oh, I
Speaker 1: did you know what? We talked about this a few
Speaker 1: weeks ago, So I do want to give an update.
Speaker 1: I finished Our Flag Means Death what? Yeah? It and
Speaker 1: it did get better and so much gayer, Like everything
Speaker 1: is gay on it, everyone is gay. I'm probably not
Speaker 1: going to watch it. So what was like a highlight
Speaker 1: from the end? Um So the show ends with Steed
Speaker 1: the main guy, so he and black Beard they get
Speaker 1: captured essentially, and they declare their love for each other
Speaker 1: and kiss. Also the non binary pirate there's a non
Speaker 1: binary non binary pirate and everyone uses they then pronouns
Speaker 1: for them. Okay, um pis written. Yeah, I'm so glad
Speaker 1: that we have a slow news week because this means
Speaker 1: I can finally talk about the Omar Apollo album that
Speaker 1: I Oh, you have really been wanting to talk about this? Okay,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I have not been wanting to talk
Speaker 1: about it. But um, but like so many fagots are
Speaker 1: posting about the new Omar album on social or they
Speaker 1: were rather because it was kind of a very temporal
Speaker 1: moment um not seeing a word about it, just just
Speaker 1: so you know, I think that's the difference between our feeds. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: Um so omar Apollo, which I had kept calling him
Speaker 1: omar Apo and that's not correct at all. Um is
Speaker 1: like this like kind of gay acoustic e vibe, like
Speaker 1: sad boy music person. And I listened to his new
Speaker 1: album Ivory, and um, you know, it was it was
Speaker 1: like I had it on repeat for like a day
Speaker 1: or two, but it's like it was very slow vibes
Speaker 1: and like very like I think. After I listened to
Speaker 1: it a few more times, I was like, this sounds
Speaker 1: so much like Frank Ocean. Were you ever a Frank
Speaker 1: Ocean fan? Okay, so I'm a diehard Frank Ocean fan,
Speaker 1: like since like college pre Channel Orange, have seen him
Speaker 1: a concert many times back in the Tumbler days, literally
Speaker 1: like the nostalgia ultra like mix tave days. So I
Speaker 1: was like disoriented by how alarming lye similar. Some of
Speaker 1: the songs were, like there's a song that he does
Speaker 1: with Calucus that like is so similar to Nikes I
Speaker 1: had to check my like phone to see that I
Speaker 1: hadn't accidentally switched to like a Frank Ocean remix of something.
Speaker 1: I wonder if it will be the kind of thing
Speaker 1: where he like retroactively has to like pay royalties like
Speaker 1: Olivia Drigo had to do with Taylor Swift. Dave. Guess
Speaker 1: what I found out. I've been doing some reporting for
Speaker 1: the podcast when I was thank God, let me tell
Speaker 1: you original reporting. So when I was driving late at night,
Speaker 1: I'm back from a Coachella party. I was driving home
Speaker 1: like two friends of friends that are from Mexico and
Speaker 1: they work in the music industry, and one of them
Speaker 1: were friends with Omar Apollo, and so we're talking about
Speaker 1: this new album and this, and I was saying, like,
Speaker 1: you know, it feels really Frank oceany to me, like
Speaker 1: or not all of it? And I should say, like
Speaker 1: half of it is very like acoustic eat kind of
Speaker 1: like John Mayer ish like feel good vibes, and then
Speaker 1: and then some of it gets a little like you know,
Speaker 1: Latin ra music, and then the rest sounds like Frank Ocean.
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, it sounds a lot like
Speaker 1: Frank Ocean, and the guy looks at me and he goes,
Speaker 1: you know they used to date, right, oh twist say
Speaker 1: dated for three years and they broke up. And this
Speaker 1: album Ivory is all about Frank, both in both in
Speaker 1: terms of the content and the musical style that he
Speaker 1: stole from him. And so I don't I don't have
Speaker 1: like a ton of intel on like the inner workings
Speaker 1: of their relationship, but I do know that there's drama
Speaker 1: in the fact that this album sounds like Frank a
Speaker 1: little bit, because can you imagine if you broke up
Speaker 1: with your ex and your ex release an album that
Speaker 1: sounded like your art, Like I would go whack, but
Speaker 1: I would go deserve I would. But I also feel
Speaker 1: like that that also feels alarmingly common in celebrity culture,
Speaker 1: Like I think when celebrities date, they influence each other's art.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, like you know, what they're actual
Speaker 1: kind of vibe is. But I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: they dated, Like that's so juicy. Can you imagine dating
Speaker 1: Frank Ocean and be horrible? Like he must be the
Speaker 1: most emotionally avoidable. I just wouldn't want to date anyone
Speaker 1: who I knew would make art about our breakup. Oh,
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? I feel like I exclusively date
Speaker 1: people that make art about it. Break now, that is
Speaker 1: the difference between you and I. It is only and
Speaker 1: this is not an exaggeration. It is only a man
Speaker 1: ter of time before an off Broadway play debuts about me.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be by me. It's gonna be called they
Speaker 1: Them No, They Them scares No. Unfortunately, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: written by one of my they them x is that
Speaker 1: works in theater. So you all can't see us right now.
Speaker 1: But Frand and I just finished dancing and hugging each
Speaker 1: other while um Dancing on My Own by Robin played.
Speaker 1: Because as we said today, we are talking about Girls,
Speaker 1: the HBO series created and often written and directed by Ms.
Speaker 1: Lena Dunham and her creative partner Jenny Cohner Yes Um
Speaker 1: and executive produced by Judd Apatow, Famous Girls. I think
Speaker 1: we should set the stage of the culture in which
Speaker 1: it premiered into. So it came out in two thousand twelve,
Speaker 1: and it's very obviously in a post Sex in the
Speaker 1: City legacy. It is filling that hole on HBO, which
Speaker 1: I think is it is directly referenced because in the
Speaker 1: first episode Showshana, the character played by sajammm It has
Speaker 1: a sex in the City poster in her bedroom, so
Speaker 1: like it was very aware of the fact that it
Speaker 1: was a show about four women living in New York City.
Speaker 1: Definitely on HBO, and I think even Showshana asks Jessa
Speaker 1: in the first episode like who which which one of
Speaker 1: the girls are you? And Jesse's like, I've never seen
Speaker 1: that that movie that the one. Okay. One of the
Speaker 1: things that this show does amazingly upon my rewatch is
Speaker 1: encapsulate people that you know so exactly. And when Zoja said,
Speaker 1: when Zaja sorry says um, when she asked that question,
Speaker 1: she kind of does the thing that she does where
Speaker 1: she asked you a question and then immediately answers it herself.
Speaker 1: And she and then she goes, she goes, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm like Samantha, but also like sometimes like I'm like
Speaker 1: a carry. And she basically says that she's like three
Speaker 1: of them, you know, she says, she says, like, no,
Speaker 1: I think I'm a carry, but you know, like sometimes
Speaker 1: Samantha comes out and like she could not be more
Speaker 1: of a Charlotte. But the exactly I know, And that's
Speaker 1: the other thing is that people that say I'm Carrie
Speaker 1: but also Samantha but also like Miranda don't know who
Speaker 1: they carry's son, Samantha Rising, you know, but it's so
Speaker 1: like like Lena Dunham's or rather whoever wrote that likely
Speaker 1: like the ability to like um just encapsulate like someone
Speaker 1: who so totally does not know themselves at all, Like
Speaker 1: just in one line, you're like know everything about them
Speaker 1: And I think that like I don't know, well that's
Speaker 1: what and you know, and like we were texting about
Speaker 1: this as you were watching it is I think the
Speaker 1: post the post industrial girls complex, which is which is
Speaker 1: a real thing, like there was literally a girl's think
Speaker 1: piece economy that started in the first season was paying
Speaker 1: its light belt with that. Yes, absolutely, But the thing
Speaker 1: that you forget and the thing that Fran and I
Speaker 1: were texting about, is just how well the show is written.
Speaker 1: The writing is so the writing in the comedy and
Speaker 1: the character work is so specific. Each the show has
Speaker 1: a very defined voice, and then within that, each of
Speaker 1: the characters has a very defined voice, and nothing they
Speaker 1: say like I'm sure there was you know, like maybe
Speaker 1: some improv and some people like brought their own selves
Speaker 1: to their characters, but the things that they say, the
Speaker 1: jokes that they make, even the little asides and like
Speaker 1: one liners are so specific and so funny and inform
Speaker 1: who these people are. Like, it is a show that
Speaker 1: I think does really well showing and not telling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean even also like um, not just with the
Speaker 1: main characters, like with characters that have two lines, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm thinking about them. I think it's the Bush
Speaker 1: Wake Warehouse episode where they meet one of the best episodes.
Speaker 1: It's I I haven't rewatched yet, but I remember in
Speaker 1: the episode there's a girl named Taco and she says, no,
Speaker 1: my name is Taco. And she's like, that's what I said, Taco.
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, you're saying it talk like Taco.
Speaker 1: She said no, she says, um, it's it's spelled with
Speaker 1: a K. By the way, I can just tell when
Speaker 1: people think it's at the City and that that like
Speaker 1: things like that, that single line, it's like I know
Speaker 1: that person, I've met that person. I know exactly what
Speaker 1: that person is like. And I think that um, Lena
Speaker 1: Dunham's like ability to capture those archetypes much like how
Speaker 1: Sex and the City did, and it's era much how
Speaker 1: like Broad City does did in its era, like they
Speaker 1: really and also I think Insecure, like Insecure, like they're
Speaker 1: kind of I think those four shows, I would say,
Speaker 1: especially Sex in the City, Girls and Insecure because they're
Speaker 1: all on HBO, And then like especially Broad City, Insecure
Speaker 1: in Girls because they're all like post Sex in the
Speaker 1: City and in New York Like they're all in their
Speaker 1: own ways reacting to the things that Sex and the
Speaker 1: City lacked in different ways. Well, but I think that
Speaker 1: when you think about the triot of Broad City, Sex
Speaker 1: in the City, and Girls, in between those two, you
Speaker 1: kind of have a spectrum of I was gonna say realism,
Speaker 1: but it's more of a spectrum of like how they
Speaker 1: authenticated like New York girlhood, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And on the Broad City and you have absurdism that's
Speaker 1: still that relies on how broke they are and how
Speaker 1: fucked up and chaotic they are in order to create
Speaker 1: that relatability, and Girls is like hyper realism mumble core.
Speaker 1: And then you have Sex and City on the other
Speaker 1: end that's like relies more in like archetype and kind
Speaker 1: of more sitcom. But they're all they all do like
Speaker 1: play with some level of fantasy. Obviously, like in Sex
Speaker 1: and the City, the fantasy is like the wealth um
Speaker 1: and in Girls, I think the fantasy almost as like
Speaker 1: the honesty and like the way that people talk to
Speaker 1: each other, and like the like the dysfunctionality of the
Speaker 1: relationships is so heightened, like I don't think people I
Speaker 1: think some people are that honest with their friends, but
Speaker 1: I don't think most people are. And then in Broad City,
Speaker 1: like the fantasy isn't like in the absurdness. In the Absurdism,
Speaker 1: I almost feel like Girls doesn't necessarily have as much
Speaker 1: a fantasy as it had, as it took components of
Speaker 1: like Sex in the City and was like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is how we actually are able to pay for our lives,
Speaker 1: wherein Sex in the City it's like never acknowledge that
Speaker 1: they're all independently wealthy, where with with Girls, it's like
Speaker 1: the first scene is like my parents were footing my bill,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I think that and
Speaker 1: here's the thing which is so like it's just such
Speaker 1: good writing like that that is I think as someone
Speaker 1: who I mean, it does not like I have not
Speaker 1: ever like studied screenwriting, but obviously like we you know,
Speaker 1: we both work in media, like literally in Hollywood, so
Speaker 1: I know what a good pilot episode looks like. And
Speaker 1: the pilot of Girls is incredible. And I also like
Speaker 1: read the pilot recently, like on paper, and it is
Speaker 1: like I'm not surprised by like how people might have
Speaker 1: responded to the script in the beginning, like it's it
Speaker 1: has a magnetic kind of presence that you've never read before.
Speaker 1: That's actually something I would be really interested in because
Speaker 1: I would love to see how much of what is
Speaker 1: on the screen was on the page. It's fascinating. I'll
Speaker 1: send it to you. Um, But I um was going
Speaker 1: to say, I think that, um, we're going to get
Speaker 1: into the Lena donot of all, and like, I think
Speaker 1: that there are a lot of reasons as to why
Speaker 1: people you know, don't like her or don't like the
Speaker 1: shower whatever, But you have to I think that, especially
Speaker 1: in this day and age, despite the fact that there
Speaker 1: were no people out of coloring in like season one,
Speaker 1: and no queer people except for Elijah, who was one
Speaker 1: of the best TV characters, we do not give Lena enough.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, we do not give lean enough credit.
Speaker 1: She's given enough credit. Um, we I think that um
Speaker 1: to me, my response to the show and how much
Speaker 1: I loved upon Rewatch was um, Lena's interest in investigating
Speaker 1: whiteness and she is I felt like she was so
Speaker 1: adamant was it or was it just her interest in
Speaker 1: investigating herself but making fun of herself in that And
Speaker 1: I think understanding that that self is a very privileged self.
Speaker 1: So she must in her head she's probably not thinking,
Speaker 1: like I'm writing about whiteness right now, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't think that's it. But she knows that the things
Speaker 1: the way this character is inhabited and the way this
Speaker 1: character is like set up in her life, and she's
Speaker 1: obviously a really deplorable character, and and never and Lena
Speaker 1: has never written the character. I mean, like, this is
Speaker 1: the most likable character ever, Like she always knows that
Speaker 1: Hannah is horrible. She's definitely she's definitely investigating her own privilege.
Speaker 1: I think what she's not doing, and then what a
Speaker 1: show today look like is she is not juxtaposing her
Speaker 1: privilege with someone else's lack of Yeah, there's no other
Speaker 1: kind of there's nothing else to be counterpoint because the
Speaker 1: other three girls also have some kind of privilege, both
Speaker 1: on and and well, we do need to talk about
Speaker 1: the fact that all four of the main characters. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, they're all white, all sis that we
Speaker 1: know of UM and all our nepotism babies. Lena Dunham
Speaker 1: has a famous artist for a mother. Zaja Maamma is
Speaker 1: the daughter of the famous player right David Mammot, who
Speaker 1: is like super canceled and problematic UM. Alison Williams is
Speaker 1: the daughter of Brian Williams, the legendary UM like news
Speaker 1: Post and then UM Jemima Kirk's day it was in
Speaker 1: a rock band. So they all are like extremely privileged. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and it's funny, I mean the I think obviously
Speaker 1: the character has leaned on their real life selves in
Speaker 1: order to portray these characters, even though they're obviously characters.
Speaker 1: It's like they're written with the actresses in mind, and
Speaker 1: you think that's imputed in a lot of the script,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It kind of reminds me
Speaker 1: of like what are shows that like UM, I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe not a Lana and Abby in Broad City, because
Speaker 1: they always talk about how they're very different from their characters.
Speaker 1: There are other shows where like the maybe even like
Speaker 1: Euphoria or something where the characters are like lifted from
Speaker 1: the actors that play them and leans on their actual
Speaker 1: real life personalities. I don't know, because those are all
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's different for something like
Speaker 1: Euphoria because it's being written by by a man for
Speaker 1: a bunch of actors. I think the difference with what
Speaker 1: sets Girls apart and why I think Insecure is like
Speaker 1: why Insecure and Broad City are like almost better, better
Speaker 1: like parallels to it than even Sex in the City
Speaker 1: is because it's a it's a writer, creator star, like
Speaker 1: I think you know Sa Ray like obviously, so much
Speaker 1: of her is in her character because she is the
Speaker 1: one writing it, the same way that like Broad City,
Speaker 1: Abbey and Alana, like they created it as a web series,
Speaker 1: so I'm sure those characters are really informed by them.
Speaker 1: In Girls, I think that really shows up in Hannah
Speaker 1: and Jessa because, um, Lena Dunham and Jemima Kirk are
Speaker 1: like childhood friends. Um, they like the the short the
Speaker 1: film that Lena Dunnam made that is what got her
Speaker 1: the Hollywood attention that led to Girls with Tiny Furniture
Speaker 1: with jemam m Kirk is also in I think probably
Speaker 1: Marnie and Showshanna are less informed by their actors than
Speaker 1: Hannah and Jessa, because like, how could you have be
Speaker 1: that level of psychotic? I r L. But I mean
Speaker 1: that's not to say that Alison Williams does not kind
Speaker 1: of get typecasts in those kind of roles. I mean,
Speaker 1: just look at like get Out, which is her best work,
Speaker 1: her best I mean, here's the thing. She's so her
Speaker 1: acting is like so flat that it works in some places.
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's flat. I think in Girls,
Speaker 1: she's like she and Shoshana, Marnie and Trashanna are levels
Speaker 1: of hysterical on different ends of the spectrum, and Marnie
Speaker 1: is like this this such a specific type of of
Speaker 1: white womanhood dialed up to like a twenty five. Yeah
Speaker 1: it is, And I okay, so real quickly, I haven't
Speaker 1: I didn't finish Insecure. Um it's like a little too
Speaker 1: I haven't watched the final season. Yeah, it's a little
Speaker 1: too heterosexual for me to muscle through. But I know that,
Speaker 1: like the next time I get like the flu, I'll
Speaker 1: finish it, you know what I mean, because it is
Speaker 1: it's the kind of show you need. Yeah, but um,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say I think here's what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say actually about the character to actress thing um,
Speaker 1: because Lena was already friends with these other three girls.
Speaker 1: She There's a lot that happened I feel like before
Speaker 1: the production and started and off camera in order to
Speaker 1: like cultivate these characters and see I think it felt
Speaker 1: like a group project to have the four of these
Speaker 1: women feel so lived in, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: and the and the best, And I think Euphorias that too,
Speaker 1: where the creator really is friends with a lot of
Speaker 1: the stars of that show and and the show benefits
Speaker 1: from that the relationship earned between the director slash showrunner
Speaker 1: and the stars. And I guess, and I guess Euphoria
Speaker 1: is the latest in this legacy of HBO shows. But
Speaker 1: now they're teenagers like doing drugs, and like I mean,
Speaker 1: Euphorian girls obviously don't have anything to do with that
Speaker 1: with each other. I was just trying to, like, you know,
Speaker 1: talking about like that there is there is like a
Speaker 1: cultural legacy, like it is like the HBO Sunday Night show,
Speaker 1: Like there's I do think something about all of these
Speaker 1: shows like links them together, even if it's just like
Speaker 1: the specific context of like where they are like where
Speaker 1: they are given to people. Um, it's just interesting to
Speaker 1: see like the way the culture has progressed and almost
Speaker 1: like the lives that we want to see depicted on
Speaker 1: screen have gotten younger. Because it started with Sex and
Speaker 1: the City these women who were in their thirties. Then
Speaker 1: it was girls who are like immediately post collegiate, and
Speaker 1: now it's literal teenagers. We're only watching teen soaps? Were
Speaker 1: all they watching like that? I mean, I guess it's
Speaker 1: like what other teen soaps are out right now? Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: what is it about our culture that like, is it
Speaker 1: the escapism? Is it like the fact that gen z
Speaker 1: rules culture? But but but then I do think that
Speaker 1: these teen shows are largely being watched by millennials. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I mentioned this briefly when we were recapping when
Speaker 1: when we did our weekly recap event just like that.
Speaker 1: But like but like, um, you know, culturally we like
Speaker 1: to digest things above our age, right, you know, like
Speaker 1: we're always like aspirational. So when we were teens, we
Speaker 1: were watching Sex in the City, you know, um, or
Speaker 1: when you're like in um, when we were in middle
Speaker 1: school watching shows about being in high school, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? And so I feel like we always
Speaker 1: watch up but like as we reach our like thirties
Speaker 1: and forties, we're less interested in watching like our own experiences,
Speaker 1: and so we're looking for the escapism of a teen
Speaker 1: world that feels relatable because we've lived through it, but
Speaker 1: still like escapist, you know what I mean. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I guess like when you think about the fact that
Speaker 1: gen Z is like the dominant you know, cultural class
Speaker 1: right now, and like I guess you know, we were
Speaker 1: talking last week about representation and like wanting to see
Speaker 1: yourself on screen like that they they do, and so
Speaker 1: like they are making this decree that like we will
Speaker 1: only watch teen shows which we'd like see ourselves are picted.
Speaker 1: I um, I think that rewatching Girls right now is
Speaker 1: also a very specific experience because I mean, one, um,
Speaker 1: watching them all get along and like the first like
Speaker 1: season is like harrowing. Like this when I watched like
Speaker 1: dancing in my own like dance thing, which is like
Speaker 1: kind of an iconic scene from the show, but you
Speaker 1: watch it watching it retroactively is so harrowing because of
Speaker 1: how they end up. Right. Well, I just watched So
Speaker 1: I'm on season three now, and I watched the episode
Speaker 1: where they go to the Hampton. That is the it is.
Speaker 1: It's like kind of in a way, it's peak girls.
Speaker 1: Um that and like Marnie's wedding. Um, it's really the
Speaker 1: episodes where all four of them were together, because you're
Speaker 1: reminded that the the foundations of their friendship are so
Speaker 1: flimsy and rooted in mania, rooted in mania. They all
Speaker 1: hate each other. They hate each other secretly and then
Speaker 1: eventually overtly. Yeah, and um, that is very like, that's
Speaker 1: very real. Well, you know, one of the fantasy aspects
Speaker 1: of Sex in the City was always like how are
Speaker 1: they such good friends? Like? How do these people like
Speaker 1: each other when they're so different? And I think Girls
Speaker 1: Like is really good at showing like sometimes your friends
Speaker 1: are people that you have nothing in common with than
Speaker 1: don't even really like and just feel like you have
Speaker 1: to keep hanging out with them, or because all you're
Speaker 1: doing is encouraging and enabling each other's horrible behavior, and
Speaker 1: because all four of these women are narcissists, sometimes to
Speaker 1: the point of sociopathy, because they have someone to just
Speaker 1: enable that all the time, Like, of course they're going
Speaker 1: to stick together even though they hate each other. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean, one of the most I think
Speaker 1: one of the hardest parts to watch, not not because
Speaker 1: it brought up anything for me, but like literally hardest
Speaker 1: to watch is the end of season two when Hannah
Speaker 1: is like when her O C. D comes back. One
Speaker 1: of the I think most poignant scenes was when Marnie
Speaker 1: has been thinking she's dating this artist and Hannah has
Speaker 1: just gotten her book deal but like can't write, and
Speaker 1: Marnie finds out that this guy is not her boyfriend,
Speaker 1: and she calls Hannah, and Hannah is like a home
Speaker 1: dealing with the fact that she can't write, and they're
Speaker 1: both on the phone like wanting to reach out and
Speaker 1: ask their friend for help and like not being able
Speaker 1: to do it, and so lie to each other and
Speaker 1: saying that their lives are fine, and that to me
Speaker 1: is like it's so some of these things are so
Speaker 1: hard to watch because of how real they were to
Speaker 1: the ways we are with our friends, and like, I'm
Speaker 1: I feel very lucky that the friends of my life
Speaker 1: are only people who I could actually call and be like,
Speaker 1: I mean, as I have with you at least twice
Speaker 1: this week, call and be like I'm going through it,
Speaker 1: Like I need to talk about it. I need your
Speaker 1: support right now. And I guess these women, just like I,
Speaker 1: didn't have the language to do that with each other
Speaker 1: until it exploded out of them in ways that we're
Speaker 1: not productive. But one of the things I love about
Speaker 1: that Hampton's episode that I watched last night is that
Speaker 1: they have this whole blow up and then at the
Speaker 1: end they're like all sitting and waiting for the jitney
Speaker 1: together and then they start like doing the dance that
Speaker 1: they all learned, and it's like again, It's like again,
Speaker 1: it's like showing rather than telling that like this is
Speaker 1: just another like the thing that has cemented their friendship,
Speaker 1: but that they're going to hold on to forever, and
Speaker 1: you know, like twenty years from now, they're gonna be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. Like the thing they're going to remember
Speaker 1: about that trip is not necessarily like the nasty things
Speaker 1: they said to each other. It's like, remember that dance
Speaker 1: we learned but we all know and it's so I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's like it's so sweet and perfect but
Speaker 1: also like fucked up. I have two remarks. First of all,
Speaker 1: that episode is Zaha's best work period. Yes, period. Second
Speaker 1: of all, have you ever had a trip with a
Speaker 1: friend or friends that turned that took a turn that
Speaker 1: all got a little nasty. Yes, I've had several because
Speaker 1: I I feel like I have been on it. I
Speaker 1: had a trip to Province Town once where I got
Speaker 1: in like the one and only fight with one of
Speaker 1: my best friends, and I just remember like we said
Speaker 1: mortifying things to each other, like like you know, black out,
Speaker 1: drunk and um, like one night after like leaving a
Speaker 1: gay bar, and the next morning it was just like
Speaker 1: what like just like this sobering like just like and
Speaker 1: just like shamefully walking to the cop, be shopping, apologizing
Speaker 1: to each other, but like, you know, it was similar
Speaker 1: to that, like at the end of the day, you
Speaker 1: just like shake it off and you're like, if we're friends,
Speaker 1: none of that matters. Obviously, the end of Girls is
Speaker 1: different because they all figured out that they're not supposed
Speaker 1: to be friends, kind of like they're not good for
Speaker 1: each other, which I think is actually such an honest
Speaker 1: and great way to end the show and it's like
Speaker 1: so true to life. Yeah, I've had I've had um
Speaker 1: similar experience as mine. Mine were maybe like a bit
Speaker 1: more dramatic, Like there was a trip I had on
Speaker 1: fire Island in which a good friend of mine had
Speaker 1: like a friend of mine at the time, had like
Speaker 1: a drug fueled manic episode and like almost like jumped
Speaker 1: off the boardwalk. Um. So it's like different, like slightly different. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, we've all had those moments like when you're
Speaker 1: when you it's it's always interesting when you take a
Speaker 1: relationship out of its normal context and like heighten the stakes.
Speaker 1: Like I think whenever you go on a trip with someone,
Speaker 1: it's just like it's just it's just like we house. Well,
Speaker 1: there's everything. In the Hampton's episode, the first thing they
Speaker 1: do when they get to the house is fight over
Speaker 1: which room they're gonna have. This real house was to
Speaker 1: a t. But that's the thing. You take a bunch
Speaker 1: of women, especially wealthy women, and you put them in
Speaker 1: a Petrie dish that is a you know, vacation rental,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it goes, you know, viral.
Speaker 1: So I will say the main motivator for me doing
Speaker 1: the Girls Watch outside of you doing a girl's Watch
Speaker 1: was to see Adam Driver in his prime, because Adam
Speaker 1: Driver is top three celebrity crushes for me. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you know that. I didn't know that it
Speaker 1: really when I tell you that this like weird shovel
Speaker 1: faced man with like arms the size of like semi
Speaker 1: trucks has like hit the weirdest point of like all
Speaker 1: of kind of like I don't know my pleasure centers.
Speaker 1: I really because I watched the show in college, and
Speaker 1: because I also I don't know when you watch this,
Speaker 1: but like I watched the show before I moved to
Speaker 1: New York. I watched the show before I experienced any
Speaker 1: of the adulty things that they experienced in the show.
Speaker 1: And I also feel like I watched this show around
Speaker 1: the time I was trying to figure out like what
Speaker 1: my what I was, what I liked during sex, like
Speaker 1: what my sexual what my sexuality and my sexuality mean,
Speaker 1: what I like in bed, which takes a long time
Speaker 1: to cultivate was And so to see Adam Driver and
Speaker 1: Lena have what is an extremely sexually specific dynamic retroactively,
Speaker 1: I was like, that is how I like to funk, now,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I don't think it's
Speaker 1: because of Adam Driver, but I didn't realize it upon
Speaker 1: first watch that like I love like, you know, weird
Speaker 1: rough fox and random role play and like giggling, and
Speaker 1: when guys treat me like ship, it's like kind of
Speaker 1: hot sometimes, you know what I mean. And I think
Speaker 1: that they're dynamic is so good and so believable. And
Speaker 1: and Lena is like, you know, as someone who discovered
Speaker 1: Adam Driver basically like was so smart to cast someone
Speaker 1: that you wouldn't expect in that role. Um, but I
Speaker 1: have you ever had like a a side piece or
Speaker 1: a funk buddy that was just weird that you never
Speaker 1: told anyone about? Uh many were you? Like you you
Speaker 1: you have sex with them regularly, and none of your
Speaker 1: friends have ever met that. But I think I think
Speaker 1: what I responded to, like even more so with their
Speaker 1: dynamic is like the person who, like you, bully your
Speaker 1: way into their lives, like you know, and that's what
Speaker 1: as their relationship like falls apart and gets back together again,
Speaker 1: I you know, like the hook up who becomes a
Speaker 1: relationship through kind of sheer force of will. Like there's
Speaker 1: one point in which Adam said, like Adam says to
Speaker 1: someone like she just wouldn't stop coming around, And eventually
Speaker 1: I realized, like I wanted to have her there, and
Speaker 1: like I would rather be with her than be alone um,
Speaker 1: but also relatable. I've got so many of my relationships
Speaker 1: have been exactly that thing. Yeah, And I think that
Speaker 1: there's also something to be said about how murky it
Speaker 1: is through a lot of these seasons because they don't
Speaker 1: label what they're going through. And I find that, again
Speaker 1: very relatable. And yet they kind of play house, you know,
Speaker 1: they call together, and yet they refused to label a
Speaker 1: lot I don't I don't remember while they say their partners.
Speaker 1: I am one of those sick people who do think that,
Speaker 1: like Adam and Hannah belong together and then and then
Speaker 1: as we know, but I think that that is kind
Speaker 1: of paid service to and the fact that so you know,
Speaker 1: Jesse and Adam get together, Hannah feels in the and
Speaker 1: I think the final season, Hannah feels incredibly betrayed by
Speaker 1: it and then finds out she's pregnant, and she and
Speaker 1: Adam have one episode where they get back together and
Speaker 1: like see what their lives could be like if they
Speaker 1: were end game, and ultimately decide like they're not meant
Speaker 1: for each other, which is I think that they're more
Speaker 1: meant for each other than she's meant for any of
Speaker 1: her other three friends. You know what, I mean, like,
Speaker 1: I think that there's a chemistry that works between her
Speaker 1: and Adam Driver, but you it's kind of whack. How
Speaker 1: from episode one of when You Meet Adam Driver to
Speaker 1: the end of the show where Adam is essentially deciding
Speaker 1: or rather realizing, that he deserves better than Hannah, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like Hannah is so verruled, le
Speaker 1: selfish and does he does deserve better than Hannah. But also,
Speaker 1: like you know, in the end of season two, he
Speaker 1: starts dating that girl who's played by Sharia Holby, and
Speaker 1: he like, at first they have this kind of like
Speaker 1: perfect relationship that he's like, oh my god, this is
Speaker 1: what a good relationship is supposed to be. Like even
Speaker 1: during sex, she like tells him exactly what she wants
Speaker 1: and he's like so mystified by that, and he's like
Speaker 1: and she's like she literally says like, why wouldn't I
Speaker 1: tell you what I want? Because he's so used to
Speaker 1: Hannah not saying what she actually thinks. He's the laziest
Speaker 1: bottom ever. She's literally like does nothing, Yeah, And he
Speaker 1: can't wrap his head around that, and then he like
Speaker 1: falls off the wagon and like treats Sherry Appleby's character
Speaker 1: like dogshit because that's what he thinks is like what
Speaker 1: a relationship is, which is kind of amazing, Like that
Speaker 1: is that is relationship commentary that needs to have you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like I felt I feel so
Speaker 1: reflected in moments like that. But it is so but
Speaker 1: like Adam does become more and more adult as the
Speaker 1: show goes on, and it's so like all of the
Speaker 1: characters have arcs and like pretty big transformation, but Adam
Speaker 1: Adams is my favorite, like he's my favorite character. Who
Speaker 1: which girl are you? Um? Oh god, I hate that question.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm Saja. You think you're I actually
Speaker 1: think that's true, yeah, because I think I would like
Speaker 1: to think I no, no, no, no, no no no, I'm
Speaker 1: Alison Williams. I'm Alison Blames. Do you think? No, I'm
Speaker 1: not a Martie Rose. I am the girl that brings
Speaker 1: everyone on vacation. And I say, we are having fun
Speaker 1: now because this is when we schedule are I was like,
Speaker 1: if everybody, we have this at seven o'clock and this
Speaker 1: at nine o'clock and y'all better be ready because you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Okay, So you think you think
Speaker 1: you're a Martie I do not think I know, And
Speaker 1: I am ashamed by that realization because I am someone
Speaker 1: who is constantly I am so anal retentive, and I
Speaker 1: really don't think I am, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like I think I'm so chill, I think I'm so cool.
Speaker 1: I'm like I think i'm really you know, when I'm
Speaker 1: right all the time, Like I always think I'm right,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times I'm actually trying too hard
Speaker 1: or I'm making things worse because of that. But you also,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think like so much of Marnie's
Speaker 1: journey in the show is like her realizing that she
Speaker 1: has no idea what she wants. And you're very You're
Speaker 1: a very driven person. Yeah. That that's something I don't
Speaker 1: have in common with Marnie, like she and that's why
Speaker 1: that's why I think you're more of a Shoshana. Yeah Shoshanna,
Speaker 1: you know, like packing everything up and moving to Japan,
Speaker 1: like I've done that, not to Japan, but like moved
Speaker 1: to like another place, like I've done that multiple times.
Speaker 1: Um So that is relatable. But I do think at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I'm most like Marnie. Um
Speaker 1: and you are Jemima Kirk, I'm not Jessa. No, I'm Hannah.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no no, but I mean you
Speaker 1: have Hannah qualities, but you're definitely Jim. Do you think, Jess, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're You're a cool girl in and out of the
Speaker 1: live you can like you'll disappear for months and come
Speaker 1: back and be like, do you want to go to
Speaker 1: the mall? Like you know, like manic Pixie girl. I
Speaker 1: have never been told that in these don't fuck about
Speaker 1: anybody's thoughts. Beliefs are emotions, but you understand them innately,
Speaker 1: like this is your emotional radical idea. To me, you
Speaker 1: are emotionally intelligently understand everyone's psychosis, and yet you choose
Speaker 1: to ignore them if it's like totally like if you're like,
Speaker 1: this is absolutely something that doesn't deserve my energy right now,
Speaker 1: Like Jessa is the most grounded character out of the
Speaker 1: four of them somehow, in some ways, I think I
Speaker 1: think so because she's the only one out of the
Speaker 1: four of them that knows who she is, that knows
Speaker 1: what she wants and almost never compromises that, where the
Speaker 1: other three are a little more issue Washi and I
Speaker 1: don't think really know themselves. But Jess is not ambitious,
Speaker 1: and I am very ambitious. But the thing about Jessa
Speaker 1: is like her mania and the way that manifests externally
Speaker 1: is a lot more you know, Um, it fluctuates a
Speaker 1: lot more. Well, I think I'm a ray. Um that's
Speaker 1: so funny because like I'm kind of a ray. On
Speaker 1: the hand of it all, let's just talk about Lena
Speaker 1: Dunham in the cultural moment of when it came out,
Speaker 1: everyone hated her. Hated her because, I mean, the more
Speaker 1: the industry treated her as this like wounder kind, like
Speaker 1: the more accolades girls received, and like in the first season,
Speaker 1: it really did it wasn't. I mean, we should maybe
Speaker 1: look up the stats, but like it definitely like one
Speaker 1: a ton of awards. It received so much critical praise.
Speaker 1: But then I think the sharp turn that it wasn't.
Speaker 1: It was almost more of like a parallel. The more
Speaker 1: that she was critically praised and like praised by the industry,
Speaker 1: the more the culture at large hate her, which is
Speaker 1: the case of a lot of like rising wonder kind
Speaker 1: or whatever, and it's specifically women. Yeah, well that's what
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, is I mean, all the things
Speaker 1: that we can say about Lena Dunhaman why she's problematic
Speaker 1: have already been said, so um, Like, I feel like
Speaker 1: it's hard to contribute to the conversation in terms of
Speaker 1: like their privilege and how these characters manifested, but in
Speaker 1: terms of like what I feel like, I think that's
Speaker 1: something that's often missing from the conversation of how we
Speaker 1: criticize Lena Dunham. And this show specifically was around a
Speaker 1: lexicon of white womanhood that um became a little bit
Speaker 1: of a meme around this time, because Girls as a
Speaker 1: show became a punchline about white women over and over again, right,
Speaker 1: white womanhood and Lena Dunham off screen as well as
Speaker 1: on screen, We're like modeling a version of of whiteness
Speaker 1: that is so insidious and gets away with a lot,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, especially in how Lena was
Speaker 1: acting as a celebrity during this time. And so the
Speaker 1: way this show became a punchline about white woman head,
Speaker 1: I think reached a point that was truly misogynistic. Like
Speaker 1: I think that like when I'm I honestly I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about like men and gay men specifically, and how there
Speaker 1: are a lot there were there are a lot of
Speaker 1: jokes they're like white women, Am I right? And there is,
Speaker 1: But I think that we don't understand that when we
Speaker 1: like kind of use white women quote unquote, Like when
Speaker 1: when when men or like you know, people that benefit
Speaker 1: from that privilege, like use white woman as like a
Speaker 1: punch line over and over again. That is a kind
Speaker 1: of misogyny. And I do also feel like gay men
Speaker 1: that were criticizing this show at the time, we're using
Speaker 1: this kind of critique of white womanhood to shield themselves
Speaker 1: from their own privilege as men. And I think that
Speaker 1: that attitude is literally given a characterization in the show
Speaker 1: in the form of Elijah, who's played by Andrew Ranals,
Speaker 1: who is hilarious but like is so toxic and and
Speaker 1: it's like an an engine behind a lot of the
Speaker 1: drama between the friends because remember he fox Marini in
Speaker 1: season two and drives away between MANI um he and
Speaker 1: like Hannah kicks him out of her apartment, and he
Speaker 1: is constantly being a horrible to the girls and like
Speaker 1: excusing it with his queerness exactly, yes, using queerness as
Speaker 1: a shield. Queerness quote unquote as a shield. Um. And
Speaker 1: then there's all I think, obviously the layer on top
Speaker 1: of all of that is like that phobia, like do
Speaker 1: you I don't, do you remember? Oh my god, it
Speaker 1: was It was horrible, so hard because all of the
Speaker 1: conversation was like, there's so much nudity and girls, there's
Speaker 1: so much sex and girls, but like what wasn't being
Speaker 1: said was there shouldn't be because of what Lena Dunham
Speaker 1: looks like. And there's also less nudity in girls than
Speaker 1: there isn't sex in the City and like all these
Speaker 1: other HBO shows that have nudity all the time, like
Speaker 1: I remember. So there's an episode in season two, guest
Speaker 1: starring Patrick Wilson where Hannah meets this man through her
Speaker 1: job at the coffee shop, and the episode is like
Speaker 1: a bottle episode where she spends this whirlwind weekend with
Speaker 1: him that basically is like an entire relationship over the
Speaker 1: course of one weekend. And the conversation about it at
Speaker 1: the time was that this is so unrealistic, this is
Speaker 1: a dream sequence because he's too hot for her, he
Speaker 1: would never fuck her. As if fat women aren't having
Speaker 1: sex every day every corner of the world. It's it's
Speaker 1: very strange and like I guess for me now it's
Speaker 1: different now watching it like as some as like a
Speaker 1: fat woman, Whereas when I was like watching this when
Speaker 1: it was airing, I did not identify as a woman,
Speaker 1: and so it's like a very different experience. But like
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it was like for her at
Speaker 1: that time. And I'm sure she's talked about it. I'm
Speaker 1: sure she's written about it, but like to have a
Speaker 1: like every day think piece about your body, like oh
Speaker 1: my god, that's horrible. And I'm not saying it excuses
Speaker 1: anything that she's done or who she is, but like
Speaker 1: it's still fucking crazy. I think a lot of the
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the reaction, in addition to
Speaker 1: fat phobia, had to do with the execution, because when
Speaker 1: you think about sex in the city or like HBO
Speaker 1: shows of that time, sex scenes still had like stunning
Speaker 1: like lighting in shadows, a lot more modesty, like mostly
Speaker 1: you only see tits and usually it's like covered up.
Speaker 1: A lot of time there was a lot more kind
Speaker 1: of like coinness around how they would do nudity in
Speaker 1: some of the raunch r HBO shows where Hannah Horvath
Speaker 1: is in you know, bad lighting, full bush full nudity
Speaker 1: like and not not in like nice positions he shot
Speaker 1: in the most like unflattering way, but not like not
Speaker 1: like gratuitously unflattering, but just like very matter of fact,
Speaker 1: which watching today still felt radical, like are you watching?
Speaker 1: Still felt radical to me. And there are shows that
Speaker 1: I think have done like I hate I hate this term,
Speaker 1: but like body positivity better, like I think Shrill is
Speaker 1: a much better explorer of like fatness and like being
Speaker 1: a fat woman such. Yes, And I also think the
Speaker 1: final season was really good too. I haven't finished yet,
Speaker 1: There'll be another flu watch. Yes. Do you remember when
Speaker 1: um Lena was on the cover of Vogue and they
Speaker 1: released like some stunning any Leviowitz photos and Jezebel was like,
Speaker 1: we will offer ten thousand dollars to the person who
Speaker 1: shows us the unretouched photos of thing that Donna is
Speaker 1: d disgusting. And do you remember when Jezebel was like
Speaker 1: the cream of the crop, like creme to la creme,
Speaker 1: like best journalism, like nothing was more exciting than Jezebel,
Speaker 1: and they had it out for her. Yes, And Jezebel
Speaker 1: was even kind of like a character on the show,
Speaker 1: like when Hannah in season two gets a job writing
Speaker 1: it blogging for like a click baity website. It's very
Speaker 1: obviously a Jezebel stand in. Yeah, and it's so I
Speaker 1: remember Lena like tweeting being like people paying ten grand
Speaker 1: for my nudes just subscribe to HBO, like it's all
Speaker 1: unretouched girl, Like what the fun? Um? Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that that's I think emblematic of a lot of things
Speaker 1: that were going on at the time, but just Lena
Speaker 1: hate in general. Like I used to be a Lena hater.
Speaker 1: I mean, I still don't like a lot of things
Speaker 1: about Lena, but I think I can appreciate her our
Speaker 1: own in a way that I didn't in my like
Speaker 1: early New York years, because like I don't know if
Speaker 1: I've toil do this. Um, you know, I used to
Speaker 1: date my first boyfriend in New York was this guy
Speaker 1: who like loved girls and loved Lena Dunham, and like
Speaker 1: I remember throughout our relationship really resenting that about them
Speaker 1: about him and feeling like he was basic because that
Speaker 1: was like his favorite show, you know, And I had
Speaker 1: kind of moved past that end my life, and um,
Speaker 1: when we broke up, it was like really horrible. It's
Speaker 1: like a really tough breakup for me. He was the
Speaker 1: only time I've ever been broken up with. I'm always
Speaker 1: the breaker reppert Um and um, here's not you. That
Speaker 1: was really hard for me. Um, and so I just
Speaker 1: like really really hated him post breakup. It was like
Speaker 1: a torrential kind of like drawn out thing. And Um,
Speaker 1: weeks after we broke up, he called me and I
Speaker 1: was thinking, like, oh my god, does he want to
Speaker 1: get back together there? Does he want to have to talk?
Speaker 1: Is he finally going to statiate all these outline questions
Speaker 1: that I still have about our breakup or whatever. He
Speaker 1: was like, Hi, I'm so sorry. Um, I have gon
Speaker 1: arehea and also syphilis. And I'm not sure if I
Speaker 1: got it like after we dated, or if I got
Speaker 1: it with the person that I slept with while we
Speaker 1: were dating. Oh god, it's like a girl's episode. I
Speaker 1: didn't know that he had cheated on me, it was,
Speaker 1: and so I found out on that phone call that
Speaker 1: he had slept with someone else, and I was like, cool, great, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 1: I didn't have gnoihea syphilis. Um, but he did mail
Speaker 1: me a signed copy of Lena Dunham's book that came
Speaker 1: out at that exact time, and it literally I literally
Speaker 1: still have her memoir like two fran Love Lena as
Speaker 1: a sorry almost gave you gonaiha gift, which is honestly
Speaker 1: worse than the Gnareha because I can get rid of Gnaia,
Speaker 1: but I can't selve his book. I have it for life.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think I like I think, and
Speaker 1: this is hard for me to say. I think I
Speaker 1: wanted to be her a little bit at the time,
Speaker 1: because you know, I mean, you're you were talking about
Speaker 1: like where you were in your life when Girls was
Speaker 1: coming out. I was in two thousand two, in two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve when the show would have come out, Like
Speaker 1: I was exactly the age of the I was almost
Speaker 1: exactly the age of the characters in the show. I
Speaker 1: like wanted to be I wanted to do what she
Speaker 1: was doing. Um, I don't think I wanted to be
Speaker 1: her specifically, but like I saw in her someone who
Speaker 1: was so ambitious and like, you know, I think at
Speaker 1: the time it was like starting to come out how
Speaker 1: like connected she was and how much of this like
Speaker 1: was about nepotism. But like obviously even with that nepotism,
Speaker 1: she none of this would have happened without her incredible
Speaker 1: talent um, and I think there was some part of
Speaker 1: me that like was kind of inspired by her. Anybody
Speaker 1: that has aspirations to make TV, which you and I
Speaker 1: both do, like will rise end. We are very free
Speaker 1: to have meetings. Yeah exactly, Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you want to slide into our dm s and talk
Speaker 1: about I want to talk to us about our writing projects.
Speaker 1: We definitely have them. I literally, I mean, I literally
Speaker 1: have I mean I feel like every you know, fag
Speaker 1: working in Hollywood has a four Friends leaving in Brooklyn
Speaker 1: linked pilot. But but like that five friends, yeah, but
Speaker 1: of course yes, like of course I have a pilot
Speaker 1: like that, you know what I mean. But like I
Speaker 1: think it's a testament to how that format works and
Speaker 1: how I personally will actually never g tired of that show,
Speaker 1: like I will always want to show about four Friends
Speaker 1: and whatever that era of New York is like, because
Speaker 1: New York is changing all the time, and also who
Speaker 1: those friends are, because we have only still seen very
Speaker 1: specific permutations of it. We still haven't seen the queer
Speaker 1: version of it. No, I still have not, And like, yes,
Speaker 1: I know we have things like queer as Folk, which
Speaker 1: are like the closest approximation, but we haven't. We have
Speaker 1: not had this. There has not been a version of
Speaker 1: the like young people living in New York coming of
Speaker 1: age story told about queer people. So if you want
Speaker 1: to read my Pilot sad and return about that as
Speaker 1: a kind of trans sex in the city, you just
Speaker 1: slide into my DM mama because she is already. These
Speaker 1: shows will be made until the end of time, and
Speaker 1: they will always be both referencing and deconstructing the versions
Speaker 1: of themselves that came before them, exactly exactly period. We
Speaker 1: will be back next week with a discussion on Nicole Kidman,
Speaker 1: The Woman, the Myth, the Legend, heartbreak will feel good
Speaker 1: on a podcast like this, um please um. You know,
Speaker 1: watch your favorite Nicole Kidman movie and anticipation. Um. And
Speaker 1: you know you could always like tweeted us and tell
Speaker 1: us which which Nicole Kidman properties you want us to
Speaker 1: talk about us your stories? Also Instagram our new Instagram
Speaker 1: like a virgin for nine. Also like tell us what
Speaker 1: you think about this girl's episode? What's your favorite episode
Speaker 1: of Girls? Are you a Hannah Amarti a Jessa a Showshana?
Speaker 1: Are you a Ray? Are you an Adam and um
Speaker 1: tell us what to talk about next, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: a show, a book, a cultural phenomenon. We want to
Speaker 1: hear from you, and I think that you can call
Speaker 1: us or also like We love it when you slide
Speaker 1: into our d M, so tag our Instagram and tell
Speaker 1: us like what you want us to watch And of
Speaker 1: course you can call to confess at three two three repentance.
Speaker 1: That's three to three seven three six two three two six.
Speaker 1: Leave us a review on Apple podcasts. We love to
Speaker 1: see them. I'm your co host Rose Damn You. You
Speaker 1: can find me anywhere on social media at Rose Damn
Speaker 1: You and I'm friends Squishco. You can find me anywhere
Speaker 1: on social media as well. You can subscribe to Like
Speaker 1: a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts. Leave us a
Speaker 1: review on Apple podcast or raining on Spotify. Like a
Speaker 1: Virgin is an i Heeart radio production. Our producers Phoebe Unter,
Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and
Speaker 1: Nikki Etour. Until next week see later. Virgins Me