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Speaker 1: Dreamline rotation me Brandon Adina Menzel, could you imagine? Oh

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Speaker 1: my god. Also, I mean Michelle Fiper, Viola Davis and

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Speaker 1: Jillian Anderson are also very dreamline rotations. Okay, I'm in

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Speaker 1: the middle of a pretty disgusting experience that I also

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Speaker 1: am completely in love with, which is I'm rewatching Girls.

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Speaker 1: And this was inspired by the fact that I've been

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Speaker 1: seeing Hunter Harris watching it and she's been tweeting about it.

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Speaker 1: It was just the tenth anniversary of the show's premiere,

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Speaker 1: and I realized I hadn't watched Girls in years, and

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Speaker 1: I did. Bully Fran also into rewatching. Well, here's here's

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Speaker 1: what here's what actually happened, because I mean, obviously Hunter Harris,

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Speaker 1: you know the impact. And so when she rewatches something,

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Speaker 1: now the culture is rewatching something, and when we're seeing

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Speaker 1: her tweet about Marnie's music video and like, I want

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Speaker 1: to watch Marty's music and when the culture is rewatching things,

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Speaker 1: that's when I want to rewatch. But I will say,

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Speaker 1: when I started to see the Girls tweets from you,

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Speaker 1: I was like, as your friend, I don't support this.

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Speaker 1: It's literally gotten in the way of me consuming any

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Speaker 1: other kind of culture like the Flight Attendants season two premiered,

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Speaker 1: which I was so excited for and I haven't watched

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Speaker 1: it yet because I've just been rewatching Girls. We need

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Speaker 1: to watch that together. Actually we should watch it tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: We do. Um. Basically, I judged was very hard and

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Speaker 1: I said I don't support this, and within twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours I was like, actually I'm gonna We were we

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Speaker 1: were we were texting about it and you were and

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Speaker 1: I was saying, Fran, we should do an episode on Girls,

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Speaker 1: and I said no, And then the next text and

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Speaker 1: then the next things I got from you was I

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Speaker 1: wish I was this cool when I was twenty three.

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Speaker 1: Well it was also like I think the biggest motivator

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Speaker 1: for me was Adam Givers sex scenes. But anyways, we'll

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Speaker 1: get into it. Well, yes, because today we're talking about Girls,

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Speaker 1: the HBO series created by Lena Them and we're going

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Speaker 1: to you know, look at it throughout lens ten years

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Speaker 1: and so much has changed. Because this is like a

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Speaker 1: virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.

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Speaker 1: I'm ros Damo and I'm Fran Grato. Um, we have

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Speaker 1: like slightly less topical stuff to talk about today because

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Speaker 1: we are recording this all at once, and the reason

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Speaker 1: we're doing that is because tomorrow is Fran's birthday. It

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Speaker 1: is tomorrow upon this record, not tomorrow when this podcast. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so by the time you all listen to it, she

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Speaker 1: will be forty five sited, yes, years young. Unfortunately for you,

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Speaker 1: we probably have not consumed a lot of the pop

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Speaker 1: culture you would expect us to be talking about, as

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Speaker 1: in we we have not watched the Drag Race finale. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I have. I have watched half of it,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know who wins yet. And I know

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Speaker 1: who wins, but I haven't watched it yet. And you

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Speaker 1: haven't spoiled it for me, which doesn't mean I have not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how the internet hasn't spoiled it for you.

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Speaker 1: Um well, I've been staying. We're at a party full

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Speaker 1: of queer people. Last night. No one like shouted out

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Speaker 1: yeah so last yeah, okay, so last night was gorgeous, gorgeous,

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Speaker 1: some a little. It was like a pre birthday party,

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Speaker 1: but a monthly like kind of queer party. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to do here in Los Angeles, raging success. Everyone had

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Speaker 1: so much fun. The girls that did the drag Laurel

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Speaker 1: Charleston and Mother Teresa were like, unreal, Teresa did this

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Speaker 1: version of Um Britney spears hit Me, Bade Me one

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Speaker 1: More Time that like starts out like slow acapella, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, someone's going to do like an acapella Britney.

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Speaker 1: That's like interesting as like a drag piece. And then

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Speaker 1: this song gets like progressively like slower and like kind

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Speaker 1: of like moody warped like dark um and everyone was

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Speaker 1: losing their goddamn minds. But yeah, shockingly, did not get

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Speaker 1: drag Race spoiled for me last night. Wow, I'm so

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Speaker 1: happy that you haven't. And let me tell you, I

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Speaker 1: don't really care someone spoiler. I don't think I would care,

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Speaker 1: Like it's there was nothing. So I've watched the first

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Speaker 1: half and all of the performances are kind of like

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Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I hate the fact that

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Speaker 1: they're going back to original song. So if you don't know,

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Speaker 1: they are like allah season six, seven and eight, the

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Speaker 1: girls are doing like drag Race written songs out there

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Speaker 1: like I did I did hear? I did hear my

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Speaker 1: friend who spoiled the ending for me? Um who was

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Speaker 1: talking me through a sort of emotional unraveling I was

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Speaker 1: happening last night. Um did walk me through how the

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Speaker 1: finale unfold and it sounds very boring. I don't think

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Speaker 1: the return to this format was really the move. I

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Speaker 1: think it was nice to try and shake it up,

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Speaker 1: but I just hate the song. Well. I also think

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Speaker 1: this is an interesting take. Anythink fran Uni should cover

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Speaker 1: your ears for this? Okay? Okay, I think that the

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Speaker 1: finale was engineered in a way to set up the

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Speaker 1: person who won to win. And that's all I'll say

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Speaker 1: about that. Okay, you can. You can uncover your ears. Now.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything else happening in the world we should

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Speaker 1: talk about? I mean, like, um, what do we What

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Speaker 1: did you watch this week? Just girls? That's it. That's

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Speaker 1: what I did. Read a book in one day last weekend. Um.

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Speaker 1: I read this book that I'm pretty sure is One

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Speaker 1: Direction fan fiction. How did that happen? Um? It's because

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Speaker 1: I saw it on book Talk and I know my

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Speaker 1: sisters who are like current Harry Style stands and used

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Speaker 1: to be one direction ars. You used to read Harry

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Speaker 1: Styles fan fiction. And there's this book called If This

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Speaker 1: Comes Out, and it's about two boy band members who

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Speaker 1: fall in love. That sounds kind of great. And I

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Speaker 1: read it in a day because no, it's not good.

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Speaker 1: I rated it three stars on good Reads. It was

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Speaker 1: definitely very easy to get through. It was a diverting

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Speaker 1: way to spend an afternoon. Um, but no, it's not good.

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Speaker 1: You know what else is not great? The pilot of

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Speaker 1: First Lady. Have you? Oh no, I haven't watched it

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Speaker 1: because I've heard it's bad, babe. I So here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: I am going to watch the rest of the show

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Speaker 1: because from like all the previews, it looks like it's

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Speaker 1: going to get better and juicier, like good melodrama. And

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Speaker 1: I do actually think that the portraits of these three

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Speaker 1: women are stunning because the actresses doing it are stunning.

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Speaker 1: Viola Davis's impression of Michelle Obama is getting a little

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Speaker 1: flak right now because, um, she's kind of overdoing a

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Speaker 1: very specific lip. Person. Have you seen the memes about this?

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Speaker 1: I saw the me I saw the meme that she

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Speaker 1: liked of like the fast food workers sitting on side

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Speaker 1: after their shift, and it was like Vio Davis's lips

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Speaker 1: between takes, and she liked it on Twitter. She liked it,

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Speaker 1: I have to like, Okay, so an even though you

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Speaker 1: can't see it, so I have to say that she's

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Speaker 1: getting a lot of flak I personal from watching the show.

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Speaker 1: I actually still think that the Obama portrayal is stunning.

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Speaker 1: I think that she looks and sounds and feels exactly

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Speaker 1: like Michelle Obama. But the script is just not good,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like Viola Davis is having a hard

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Speaker 1: time doing what she needs to do because the script

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Speaker 1: is so bad. And then on top of that, I

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Speaker 1: do think the lip person thing is like a little

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Speaker 1: and ol even though Michelle Obama does do that. We

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Speaker 1: are laughing at a tweet. We'll post it on the Burner.

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Speaker 1: I gotta wait. We need to tell the Virgins about

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Speaker 1: our burner. So we have a we have a burner

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Speaker 1: Instagram that you should follow it. No, no, not should.

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Speaker 1: You must listen to this. You will follow it and

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Speaker 1: share things from it because it's at like a virgin

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Speaker 1: for that's at like a virgin for on Instagram. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and it is Fran myself and our producer Phoebe just

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Speaker 1: ship posting our little asses off. Yeah, and we'll do

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Speaker 1: memes of the week. The account only follows for people,

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Speaker 1: Fran myself, Phoebe, and Adida Mentell. And so right now

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at the home page and it has like

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Speaker 1: the people's stories at top, and it's just Fran Rose

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Speaker 1: and Indiana Love the Idina makes stories. That's so nice. Um,

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Speaker 1: well she's talking about Earth Day, yeah, oh lovely love

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Speaker 1: that from you know, climate change frozen. So anyways, just

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Speaker 1: to tell you the rest about this, Michelle Peiffer plays

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Speaker 1: Betty Ford, which like someone I never paid attention to,

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Speaker 1: someone I don't know as like a American figure. That's Betty.

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Speaker 1: Betty Ford is the one with the clinic, you know.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's the one with the clinic. Is it

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Speaker 1: for eating disorders or drugs? I don't know. I actually

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Speaker 1: don't know. I haven't done even a cursory google on

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Speaker 1: Betty for it. Um, but because I will either way,

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Speaker 1: I hope they get the help they need. I will say,

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Speaker 1: I'd be curious to know what the virgins think. But

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Speaker 1: the pilot is not good. Literally, nothing happens. The script

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Speaker 1: is so boring. There's no like engine or real steaks

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Speaker 1: established in these three women's lives, and it's like what

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Speaker 1: like it was just such a bad beginning to what

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Speaker 1: a show that has so much potential but I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I've hoped for the previous. So when you watch it,

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Speaker 1: I would love to hear your opinions, and as well,

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Speaker 1: I think we should try and watch it. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: did you know what? We talked about this a few

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, So I do want to give an update.

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Speaker 1: I finished Our Flag Means Death what? Yeah? It and

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Speaker 1: it did get better and so much gayer, Like everything

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Speaker 1: is gay on it, everyone is gay. I'm probably not

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Speaker 1: going to watch it. So what was like a highlight

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Speaker 1: from the end? Um So the show ends with Steed

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Speaker 1: the main guy, so he and black Beard they get

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Speaker 1: captured essentially, and they declare their love for each other

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Speaker 1: and kiss. Also the non binary pirate there's a non

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Speaker 1: binary non binary pirate and everyone uses they then pronouns

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Speaker 1: for them. Okay, um pis written. Yeah, I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: that we have a slow news week because this means

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Speaker 1: I can finally talk about the Omar Apollo album that

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Speaker 1: I Oh, you have really been wanting to talk about this? Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. I have not been wanting to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. But um, but like so many fagots are

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Speaker 1: posting about the new Omar album on social or they

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Speaker 1: were rather because it was kind of a very temporal

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Speaker 1: moment um not seeing a word about it, just just

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Speaker 1: so you know, I think that's the difference between our feeds. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: Um so omar Apollo, which I had kept calling him

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Speaker 1: omar Apo and that's not correct at all. Um is

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Speaker 1: like this like kind of gay acoustic e vibe, like

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Speaker 1: sad boy music person. And I listened to his new

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Speaker 1: album Ivory, and um, you know, it was it was

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Speaker 1: like I had it on repeat for like a day

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Speaker 1: or two, but it's like it was very slow vibes

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Speaker 1: and like very like I think. After I listened to

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Speaker 1: it a few more times, I was like, this sounds

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Speaker 1: so much like Frank Ocean. Were you ever a Frank

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Speaker 1: Ocean fan? Okay, so I'm a diehard Frank Ocean fan,

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Speaker 1: like since like college pre Channel Orange, have seen him

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Speaker 1: a concert many times back in the Tumbler days, literally

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Speaker 1: like the nostalgia ultra like mix tave days. So I

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Speaker 1: was like disoriented by how alarming lye similar. Some of

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Speaker 1: the songs were, like there's a song that he does

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Speaker 1: with Calucus that like is so similar to Nikes I

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Speaker 1: had to check my like phone to see that I

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Speaker 1: hadn't accidentally switched to like a Frank Ocean remix of something.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if it will be the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: where he like retroactively has to like pay royalties like

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Speaker 1: Olivia Drigo had to do with Taylor Swift. Dave. Guess

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Speaker 1: what I found out. I've been doing some reporting for

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Speaker 1: the podcast when I was thank God, let me tell

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Speaker 1: you original reporting. So when I was driving late at night,

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Speaker 1: I'm back from a Coachella party. I was driving home

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Speaker 1: like two friends of friends that are from Mexico and

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Speaker 1: they work in the music industry, and one of them

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Speaker 1: were friends with Omar Apollo, and so we're talking about

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Speaker 1: this new album and this, and I was saying, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it feels really Frank oceany to me, like

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Speaker 1: or not all of it? And I should say, like

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Speaker 1: half of it is very like acoustic eat kind of

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Speaker 1: like John Mayer ish like feel good vibes, and then

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Speaker 1: and then some of it gets a little like you know,

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Speaker 1: Latin ra music, and then the rest sounds like Frank Ocean.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, well, it sounds a lot like

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Speaker 1: Frank Ocean, and the guy looks at me and he goes,

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Speaker 1: you know they used to date, right, oh twist say

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Speaker 1: dated for three years and they broke up. And this

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Speaker 1: album Ivory is all about Frank, both in both in

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Speaker 1: terms of the content and the musical style that he

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Speaker 1: stole from him. And so I don't I don't have

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Speaker 1: like a ton of intel on like the inner workings

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Speaker 1: of their relationship, but I do know that there's drama

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Speaker 1: in the fact that this album sounds like Frank a

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Speaker 1: little bit, because can you imagine if you broke up

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Speaker 1: with your ex and your ex release an album that

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Speaker 1: sounded like your art, Like I would go whack, but

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Speaker 1: I would go deserve I would. But I also feel

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Speaker 1: like that that also feels alarmingly common in celebrity culture,

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Speaker 1: Like I think when celebrities date, they influence each other's art.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know, like you know, what they're actual

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Speaker 1: kind of vibe is. But I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: they dated, Like that's so juicy. Can you imagine dating

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Speaker 1: Frank Ocean and be horrible? Like he must be the

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Speaker 1: most emotionally avoidable. I just wouldn't want to date anyone

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Speaker 1: who I knew would make art about our breakup. Oh,

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Speaker 1: are you kidding me? I feel like I exclusively date

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Speaker 1: people that make art about it. Break now, that is

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Speaker 1: the difference between you and I. It is only and

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Speaker 1: this is not an exaggeration. It is only a man

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Speaker 1: ter of time before an off Broadway play debuts about me.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be by me. It's gonna be called they

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Speaker 1: Them No, They Them scares No. Unfortunately, it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: written by one of my they them x is that

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Speaker 1: works in theater. So you all can't see us right now.

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Speaker 1: But Frand and I just finished dancing and hugging each

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Speaker 1: other while um Dancing on My Own by Robin played.

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Speaker 1: Because as we said today, we are talking about Girls,

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Speaker 1: the HBO series created and often written and directed by Ms.

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Speaker 1: Lena Dunham and her creative partner Jenny Cohner Yes Um

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Speaker 1: and executive produced by Judd Apatow, Famous Girls. I think

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Speaker 1: we should set the stage of the culture in which

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Speaker 1: it premiered into. So it came out in two thousand twelve,

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Speaker 1: and it's very obviously in a post Sex in the

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Speaker 1: City legacy. It is filling that hole on HBO, which

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Speaker 1: I think is it is directly referenced because in the

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Speaker 1: first episode Showshana, the character played by sajammm It has

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Speaker 1: a sex in the City poster in her bedroom, so

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Speaker 1: like it was very aware of the fact that it

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Speaker 1: was a show about four women living in New York City.

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Speaker 1: Definitely on HBO, and I think even Showshana asks Jessa

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Speaker 1: in the first episode like who which which one of

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Speaker 1: the girls are you? And Jesse's like, I've never seen

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Speaker 1: that that movie that the one. Okay. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that this show does amazingly upon my rewatch is

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Speaker 1: encapsulate people that you know so exactly. And when Zoja said,

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Speaker 1: when Zaja sorry says um, when she asked that question,

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Speaker 1: she kind of does the thing that she does where

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Speaker 1: she asked you a question and then immediately answers it herself.

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Speaker 1: And she and then she goes, she goes, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm like Samantha, but also like sometimes like I'm like

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Speaker 1: a carry. And she basically says that she's like three

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Speaker 1: of them, you know, she says, she says, like, no,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm a carry, but you know, like sometimes

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Speaker 1: Samantha comes out and like she could not be more

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Speaker 1: of a Charlotte. But the exactly I know, And that's

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Speaker 1: the other thing is that people that say I'm Carrie

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Speaker 1: but also Samantha but also like Miranda don't know who

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Speaker 1: they carry's son, Samantha Rising, you know, but it's so

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Speaker 1: like like Lena Dunham's or rather whoever wrote that likely

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Speaker 1: like the ability to like um just encapsulate like someone

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Speaker 1: who so totally does not know themselves at all, Like

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Speaker 1: just in one line, you're like know everything about them

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Speaker 1: And I think that like I don't know, well that's

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Speaker 1: what and you know, and like we were texting about

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Speaker 1: this as you were watching it is I think the

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Speaker 1: post the post industrial girls complex, which is which is

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Speaker 1: a real thing, like there was literally a girl's think

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Speaker 1: piece economy that started in the first season was paying

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Speaker 1: its light belt with that. Yes, absolutely, But the thing

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Speaker 1: that you forget and the thing that Fran and I

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Speaker 1: were texting about, is just how well the show is written.

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Speaker 1: The writing is so the writing in the comedy and

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Speaker 1: the character work is so specific. Each the show has

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Speaker 1: a very defined voice, and then within that, each of

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Speaker 1: the characters has a very defined voice, and nothing they

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Speaker 1: say like I'm sure there was you know, like maybe

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Speaker 1: some improv and some people like brought their own selves

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Speaker 1: to their characters, but the things that they say, the

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Speaker 1: jokes that they make, even the little asides and like

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Speaker 1: one liners are so specific and so funny and inform

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Speaker 1: who these people are. Like, it is a show that

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Speaker 1: I think does really well showing and not telling. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean even also like um, not just with the

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Speaker 1: main characters, like with characters that have two lines, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I'm thinking about them. I think it's the Bush

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Speaker 1: Wake Warehouse episode where they meet one of the best episodes.

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Speaker 1: It's I I haven't rewatched yet, but I remember in

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Speaker 1: the episode there's a girl named Taco and she says, no,

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Speaker 1: my name is Taco. And she's like, that's what I said, Taco.

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Speaker 1: And she's like, no, you're saying it talk like Taco.

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Speaker 1: She said no, she says, um, it's it's spelled with

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Speaker 1: a K. By the way, I can just tell when

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Speaker 1: people think it's at the City and that that like

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Speaker 1: things like that, that single line, it's like I know

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Speaker 1: that person, I've met that person. I know exactly what

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Speaker 1: that person is like. And I think that um, Lena

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Speaker 1: Dunham's like ability to capture those archetypes much like how

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Speaker 1: Sex and the City did, and it's era much how

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Speaker 1: like Broad City does did in its era, like they

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Speaker 1: really and also I think Insecure, like Insecure, like they're

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Speaker 1: kind of I think those four shows, I would say,

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Speaker 1: especially Sex in the City, Girls and Insecure because they're

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Speaker 1: all on HBO, And then like especially Broad City, Insecure

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Speaker 1: in Girls because they're all like post Sex in the

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Speaker 1: City and in New York Like they're all in their

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Speaker 1: own ways reacting to the things that Sex and the

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Speaker 1: City lacked in different ways. Well, but I think that

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Speaker 1: when you think about the triot of Broad City, Sex

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Speaker 1: in the City, and Girls, in between those two, you

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Speaker 1: kind of have a spectrum of I was gonna say realism,

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Speaker 1: but it's more of a spectrum of like how they

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Speaker 1: authenticated like New York girlhood, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: And on the Broad City and you have absurdism that's

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Speaker 1: still that relies on how broke they are and how

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Speaker 1: fucked up and chaotic they are in order to create

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Speaker 1: that relatability, and Girls is like hyper realism mumble core.

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Speaker 1: And then you have Sex and City on the other

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Speaker 1: end that's like relies more in like archetype and kind

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Speaker 1: of more sitcom. But they're all they all do like

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Speaker 1: play with some level of fantasy. Obviously, like in Sex

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Speaker 1: and the City, the fantasy is like the wealth um

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Speaker 1: and in Girls, I think the fantasy almost as like

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Speaker 1: the honesty and like the way that people talk to

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Speaker 1: each other, and like the like the dysfunctionality of the

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Speaker 1: relationships is so heightened, like I don't think people I

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Speaker 1: think some people are that honest with their friends, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think most people are. And then in Broad City,

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Speaker 1: like the fantasy isn't like in the absurdness. In the Absurdism,

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Speaker 1: I almost feel like Girls doesn't necessarily have as much

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Speaker 1: a fantasy as it had, as it took components of

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Speaker 1: like Sex in the City and was like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is how we actually are able to pay for our lives,

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Speaker 1: wherein Sex in the City it's like never acknowledge that

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Speaker 1: they're all independently wealthy, where with with Girls, it's like

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Speaker 1: the first scene is like my parents were footing my bill,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I think that and

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Speaker 1: here's the thing which is so like it's just such

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Speaker 1: good writing like that that is I think as someone

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Speaker 1: who I mean, it does not like I have not

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Speaker 1: ever like studied screenwriting, but obviously like we you know,

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Speaker 1: we both work in media, like literally in Hollywood, so

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Speaker 1: I know what a good pilot episode looks like. And

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Speaker 1: the pilot of Girls is incredible. And I also like

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Speaker 1: read the pilot recently, like on paper, and it is

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Speaker 1: like I'm not surprised by like how people might have

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Speaker 1: responded to the script in the beginning, like it's it

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Speaker 1: has a magnetic kind of presence that you've never read before.

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Speaker 1: That's actually something I would be really interested in because

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Speaker 1: I would love to see how much of what is

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Speaker 1: on the screen was on the page. It's fascinating. I'll

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Speaker 1: send it to you. Um, But I um was going

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Speaker 1: to say, I think that, um, we're going to get

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Speaker 1: into the Lena donot of all, and like, I think

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Speaker 1: that there are a lot of reasons as to why

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Speaker 1: people you know, don't like her or don't like the

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Speaker 1: shower whatever, But you have to I think that, especially

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Speaker 1: in this day and age, despite the fact that there

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Speaker 1: were no people out of coloring in like season one,

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Speaker 1: and no queer people except for Elijah, who was one

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Speaker 1: of the best TV characters, we do not give Lena enough.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, we do not give lean enough credit.

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Speaker 1: She's given enough credit. Um, we I think that um

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Speaker 1: to me, my response to the show and how much

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Speaker 1: I loved upon Rewatch was um, Lena's interest in investigating

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Speaker 1: whiteness and she is I felt like she was so

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Speaker 1: adamant was it or was it just her interest in

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Speaker 1: investigating herself but making fun of herself in that And

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Speaker 1: I think understanding that that self is a very privileged self.

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Speaker 1: So she must in her head she's probably not thinking,

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Speaker 1: like I'm writing about whiteness right now, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's it. But she knows that the things

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Speaker 1: the way this character is inhabited and the way this

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Speaker 1: character is like set up in her life, and she's

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Speaker 1: obviously a really deplorable character, and and never and Lena

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Speaker 1: has never written the character. I mean, like, this is

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Speaker 1: the most likable character ever, Like she always knows that

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Speaker 1: Hannah is horrible. She's definitely she's definitely investigating her own privilege.

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Speaker 1: I think what she's not doing, and then what a

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Speaker 1: show today look like is she is not juxtaposing her

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Speaker 1: privilege with someone else's lack of Yeah, there's no other

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Speaker 1: kind of there's nothing else to be counterpoint because the

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Speaker 1: other three girls also have some kind of privilege, both

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Speaker 1: on and and well, we do need to talk about

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Speaker 1: the fact that all four of the main characters. Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, they're all white, all sis that we

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Speaker 1: know of UM and all our nepotism babies. Lena Dunham

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Speaker 1: has a famous artist for a mother. Zaja Maamma is

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Speaker 1: the daughter of the famous player right David Mammot, who

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Speaker 1: is like super canceled and problematic UM. Alison Williams is

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Speaker 1: the daughter of Brian Williams, the legendary UM like news

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Speaker 1: Post and then UM Jemima Kirk's day it was in

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Speaker 1: a rock band. So they all are like extremely privileged. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and it's funny, I mean the I think obviously

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Speaker 1: the character has leaned on their real life selves in

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00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: order to portray these characters, even though they're obviously characters.

426
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: It's like they're written with the actresses in mind, and

427
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: you think that's imputed in a lot of the script,

428
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It kind of reminds me

429
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 1: of like what are shows that like UM, I mean,

430
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: maybe not a Lana and Abby in Broad City, because

431
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 1: they always talk about how they're very different from their characters.

432
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: There are other shows where like the maybe even like

433
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: Euphoria or something where the characters are like lifted from

434
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: the actors that play them and leans on their actual

435
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: real life personalities. I don't know, because those are all

436
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's different for something like

437
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: Euphoria because it's being written by by a man for

438
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of actors. I think the difference with what

439
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: sets Girls apart and why I think Insecure is like

440
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: why Insecure and Broad City are like almost better, better

441
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: like parallels to it than even Sex in the City

442
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: is because it's a it's a writer, creator star, like

443
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: I think you know Sa Ray like obviously, so much

444
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: of her is in her character because she is the

445
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 1: one writing it, the same way that like Broad City,

446
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: Abbey and Alana, like they created it as a web series,

447
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: so I'm sure those characters are really informed by them.

448
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 1: In Girls, I think that really shows up in Hannah

449
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: and Jessa because, um, Lena Dunham and Jemima Kirk are

450
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: like childhood friends. Um, they like the the short the

451
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: film that Lena Dunnam made that is what got her

452
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: the Hollywood attention that led to Girls with Tiny Furniture

453
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: with jemam m Kirk is also in I think probably

454
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: Marnie and Showshanna are less informed by their actors than

455
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: Hannah and Jessa, because like, how could you have be

456
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: that level of psychotic? I r L. But I mean

457
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: that's not to say that Alison Williams does not kind

458
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 1: of get typecasts in those kind of roles. I mean,

459
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: just look at like get Out, which is her best work,

460
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: her best I mean, here's the thing. She's so her

461
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 1: acting is like so flat that it works in some places.

462
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's flat. I think in Girls,

463
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: she's like she and Shoshana, Marnie and Trashanna are levels

464
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: of hysterical on different ends of the spectrum, and Marnie

465
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 1: is like this this such a specific type of of

466
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: white womanhood dialed up to like a twenty five. Yeah

467
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: it is, And I okay, so real quickly, I haven't

468
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: I didn't finish Insecure. Um it's like a little too

469
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: I haven't watched the final season. Yeah, it's a little

470
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: too heterosexual for me to muscle through. But I know that,

471
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: like the next time I get like the flu, I'll

472
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: finish it, you know what I mean, because it is

473
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: it's the kind of show you need. Yeah, but um,

474
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: I was gonna say I think here's what I'm trying

475
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: to say actually about the character to actress thing um,

476
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: because Lena was already friends with these other three girls.

477
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: She There's a lot that happened I feel like before

478
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: the production and started and off camera in order to

479
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: like cultivate these characters and see I think it felt

480
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: like a group project to have the four of these

481
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: women feel so lived in, you know what I mean,

482
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: and the and the best, And I think Euphorias that too,

483
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: where the creator really is friends with a lot of

484
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: the stars of that show and and the show benefits

485
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: from that the relationship earned between the director slash showrunner

486
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: and the stars. And I guess, and I guess Euphoria

487
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: is the latest in this legacy of HBO shows. But

488
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 1: now they're teenagers like doing drugs, and like I mean,

489
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: Euphorian girls obviously don't have anything to do with that

490
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: with each other. I was just trying to, like, you know,

491
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: talking about like that there is there is like a

492
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: cultural legacy, like it is like the HBO Sunday Night show,

493
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: Like there's I do think something about all of these

494
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: shows like links them together, even if it's just like

495
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: the specific context of like where they are like where

496
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: they are given to people. Um, it's just interesting to

497
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: see like the way the culture has progressed and almost

498
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: like the lives that we want to see depicted on

499
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: screen have gotten younger. Because it started with Sex and

500
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: the City these women who were in their thirties. Then

501
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: it was girls who are like immediately post collegiate, and

502
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: now it's literal teenagers. We're only watching teen soaps? Were

503
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: all they watching like that? I mean, I guess it's

504
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: like what other teen soaps are out right now? Like, yeah,

505
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: what is it about our culture that like, is it

506
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: the escapism? Is it like the fact that gen z

507
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: rules culture? But but but then I do think that

508
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: these teen shows are largely being watched by millennials. Yeah,

509
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: well I mentioned this briefly when we were recapping when

510
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: when we did our weekly recap event just like that.

511
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: But like but like, um, you know, culturally we like

512
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: to digest things above our age, right, you know, like

513
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 1: we're always like aspirational. So when we were teens, we

514
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: were watching Sex in the City, you know, um, or

515
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: when you're like in um, when we were in middle

516
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: school watching shows about being in high school, you know

517
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: what I mean? And so I feel like we always

518
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: watch up but like as we reach our like thirties

519
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: and forties, we're less interested in watching like our own experiences,

520
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: and so we're looking for the escapism of a teen

521
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: world that feels relatable because we've lived through it, but

522
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: still like escapist, you know what I mean. Yeah, And

523
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: I guess like when you think about the fact that

524
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: gen Z is like the dominant you know, cultural class

525
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: right now, and like I guess you know, we were

526
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: talking last week about representation and like wanting to see

527
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: yourself on screen like that they they do, and so

528
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: like they are making this decree that like we will

529
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 1: only watch teen shows which we'd like see ourselves are picted.

530
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: I um, I think that rewatching Girls right now is

531
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: also a very specific experience because I mean, one, um,

532
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: watching them all get along and like the first like

533
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: season is like harrowing. Like this when I watched like

534
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: dancing in my own like dance thing, which is like

535
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,239
Speaker 1: kind of an iconic scene from the show, but you

536
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: watch it watching it retroactively is so harrowing because of

537
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: how they end up. Right. Well, I just watched So

538
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: I'm on season three now, and I watched the episode

539
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: where they go to the Hampton. That is the it is.

540
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: It's like kind of in a way, it's peak girls.

541
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: Um that and like Marnie's wedding. Um, it's really the

542
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: episodes where all four of them were together, because you're

543
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: reminded that the the foundations of their friendship are so

544
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: flimsy and rooted in mania, rooted in mania. They all

545
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: hate each other. They hate each other secretly and then

546
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: eventually overtly. Yeah, and um, that is very like, that's

547
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: very real. Well, you know, one of the fantasy aspects

548
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: of Sex in the City was always like how are

549
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,479
Speaker 1: they such good friends? Like? How do these people like

550
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: each other when they're so different? And I think Girls

551
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: Like is really good at showing like sometimes your friends

552
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: are people that you have nothing in common with than

553
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: don't even really like and just feel like you have

554
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: to keep hanging out with them, or because all you're

555
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: doing is encouraging and enabling each other's horrible behavior, and

556
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: because all four of these women are narcissists, sometimes to

557
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: the point of sociopathy, because they have someone to just

558
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: enable that all the time, Like, of course they're going

559
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: to stick together even though they hate each other. You

560
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: know what I mean, one of the most I think

561
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: one of the hardest parts to watch, not not because

562
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: it brought up anything for me, but like literally hardest

563
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: to watch is the end of season two when Hannah

564
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: is like when her O C. D comes back. One

565
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: of the I think most poignant scenes was when Marnie

566
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: has been thinking she's dating this artist and Hannah has

567
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: just gotten her book deal but like can't write, and

568
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: Marnie finds out that this guy is not her boyfriend,

569
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: and she calls Hannah, and Hannah is like a home

570
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: dealing with the fact that she can't write, and they're

571
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,479
Speaker 1: both on the phone like wanting to reach out and

572
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: ask their friend for help and like not being able

573
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: to do it, and so lie to each other and

574
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,239
Speaker 1: saying that their lives are fine, and that to me

575
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: is like it's so some of these things are so

576
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: hard to watch because of how real they were to

577
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: the ways we are with our friends, and like, I'm

578
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: I feel very lucky that the friends of my life

579
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: are only people who I could actually call and be like,

580
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: I mean, as I have with you at least twice

581
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: this week, call and be like I'm going through it,

582
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: Like I need to talk about it. I need your

583
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: support right now. And I guess these women, just like I,

584
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: didn't have the language to do that with each other

585
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: until it exploded out of them in ways that we're

586
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: not productive. But one of the things I love about

587
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: that Hampton's episode that I watched last night is that

588
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: they have this whole blow up and then at the

589
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: end they're like all sitting and waiting for the jitney

590
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: together and then they start like doing the dance that

591
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: they all learned, and it's like again, It's like again,

592
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: it's like showing rather than telling that like this is

593
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: just another like the thing that has cemented their friendship,

594
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: but that they're going to hold on to forever, and

595
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: you know, like twenty years from now, they're gonna be like,

596
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: oh my god. Like the thing they're going to remember

597
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: about that trip is not necessarily like the nasty things

598
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: they said to each other. It's like, remember that dance

599
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: we learned but we all know and it's so I

600
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: don't know. It's like it's so sweet and perfect but

601
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: also like fucked up. I have two remarks. First of all,

602
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: that episode is Zaha's best work period. Yes, period. Second

603
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: of all, have you ever had a trip with a

604
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: friend or friends that turned that took a turn that

605
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: all got a little nasty. Yes, I've had several because

606
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: I I feel like I have been on it. I

607
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: had a trip to Province Town once where I got

608
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: in like the one and only fight with one of

609
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: my best friends, and I just remember like we said

610
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: mortifying things to each other, like like you know, black out,

611
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: drunk and um, like one night after like leaving a

612
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: gay bar, and the next morning it was just like

613
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: what like just like this sobering like just like and

614
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: just like shamefully walking to the cop, be shopping, apologizing

615
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: to each other, but like, you know, it was similar

616
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: to that, like at the end of the day, you

617
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: just like shake it off and you're like, if we're friends,

618
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: none of that matters. Obviously, the end of Girls is

619
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: different because they all figured out that they're not supposed

620
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: to be friends, kind of like they're not good for

621
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: each other, which I think is actually such an honest

622
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: and great way to end the show and it's like

623
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: so true to life. Yeah, I've had I've had um

624
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: similar experience as mine. Mine were maybe like a bit

625
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: more dramatic, Like there was a trip I had on

626
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: fire Island in which a good friend of mine had

627
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: like a friend of mine at the time, had like

628
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: a drug fueled manic episode and like almost like jumped

629
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: off the boardwalk. Um. So it's like different, like slightly different. Um,

630
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: but yeah, we've all had those moments like when you're

631
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: when you it's it's always interesting when you take a

632
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: relationship out of its normal context and like heighten the stakes.

633
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: Like I think whenever you go on a trip with someone,

634
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: it's just like it's just it's just like we house. Well,

635
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: there's everything. In the Hampton's episode, the first thing they

636
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 1: do when they get to the house is fight over

637
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: which room they're gonna have. This real house was to

638
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: a t. But that's the thing. You take a bunch

639
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: of women, especially wealthy women, and you put them in

640
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: a Petrie dish that is a you know, vacation rental,

641
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it goes, you know, viral.

642
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: So I will say the main motivator for me doing

643
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: the Girls Watch outside of you doing a girl's Watch

644
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: was to see Adam Driver in his prime, because Adam

645
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: Driver is top three celebrity crushes for me. I don't

646
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: know if you know that. I didn't know that it

647
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: really when I tell you that this like weird shovel

648
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: faced man with like arms the size of like semi

649
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 1: trucks has like hit the weirdest point of like all

650
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: of kind of like I don't know my pleasure centers.

651
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: I really because I watched the show in college, and

652
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: because I also I don't know when you watch this,

653
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: but like I watched the show before I moved to

654
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 1: New York. I watched the show before I experienced any

655
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: of the adulty things that they experienced in the show.

656
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: And I also feel like I watched this show around

657
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: the time I was trying to figure out like what

658
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: my what I was, what I liked during sex, like

659
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 1: what my sexual what my sexuality and my sexuality mean,

660
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 1: what I like in bed, which takes a long time

661
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: to cultivate was And so to see Adam Driver and

662
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: Lena have what is an extremely sexually specific dynamic retroactively,

663
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: I was like, that is how I like to funk, now,

664
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I don't think it's

665
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: because of Adam Driver, but I didn't realize it upon

666
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: first watch that like I love like, you know, weird

667
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: rough fox and random role play and like giggling, and

668
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: when guys treat me like ship, it's like kind of

669
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: hot sometimes, you know what I mean. And I think

670
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: that they're dynamic is so good and so believable. And

671
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: and Lena is like, you know, as someone who discovered

672
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 1: Adam Driver basically like was so smart to cast someone

673
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: that you wouldn't expect in that role. Um, but I

674
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: have you ever had like a a side piece or

675
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: a funk buddy that was just weird that you never

676
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: told anyone about? Uh many were you? Like you you

677
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: you have sex with them regularly, and none of your

678
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: friends have ever met that. But I think I think

679
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: what I responded to, like even more so with their

680
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: dynamic is like the person who, like you, bully your

681
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 1: way into their lives, like you know, and that's what

682
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: as their relationship like falls apart and gets back together again,

683
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: I you know, like the hook up who becomes a

684
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: relationship through kind of sheer force of will. Like there's

685
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: one point in which Adam said, like Adam says to

686
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: someone like she just wouldn't stop coming around, And eventually

687
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: I realized, like I wanted to have her there, and

688
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: like I would rather be with her than be alone um,

689
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: but also relatable. I've got so many of my relationships

690
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: have been exactly that thing. Yeah, And I think that

691
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: there's also something to be said about how murky it

692
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: is through a lot of these seasons because they don't

693
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: label what they're going through. And I find that, again

694
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: very relatable. And yet they kind of play house, you know,

695
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: they call together, and yet they refused to label a

696
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: lot I don't I don't remember while they say their partners.

697
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: I am one of those sick people who do think that,

698
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: like Adam and Hannah belong together and then and then

699
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: as we know, but I think that that is kind

700
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: of paid service to and the fact that so you know,

701
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: Jesse and Adam get together, Hannah feels in the and

702
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: I think the final season, Hannah feels incredibly betrayed by

703
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: it and then finds out she's pregnant, and she and

704
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: Adam have one episode where they get back together and

705
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: like see what their lives could be like if they

706
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: were end game, and ultimately decide like they're not meant

707
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: for each other, which is I think that they're more

708
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: meant for each other than she's meant for any of

709
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: her other three friends. You know what, I mean, like,

710
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: I think that there's a chemistry that works between her

711
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 1: and Adam Driver, but you it's kind of whack. How

712
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: from episode one of when You Meet Adam Driver to

713
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: the end of the show where Adam is essentially deciding

714
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: or rather realizing, that he deserves better than Hannah, you

715
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like Hannah is so verruled, le

716
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 1: selfish and does he does deserve better than Hannah. But also,

717
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: like you know, in the end of season two, he

718
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: starts dating that girl who's played by Sharia Holby, and

719
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: he like, at first they have this kind of like

720
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: perfect relationship that he's like, oh my god, this is

721
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: what a good relationship is supposed to be. Like even

722
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: during sex, she like tells him exactly what she wants

723
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: and he's like so mystified by that, and he's like

724
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: and she's like she literally says like, why wouldn't I

725
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: tell you what I want? Because he's so used to

726
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: Hannah not saying what she actually thinks. He's the laziest

727
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: bottom ever. She's literally like does nothing, Yeah, And he

728
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: can't wrap his head around that, and then he like

729
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: falls off the wagon and like treats Sherry Appleby's character

730
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: like dogshit because that's what he thinks is like what

731
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: a relationship is, which is kind of amazing, Like that

732
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: is that is relationship commentary that needs to have you

733
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like I felt I feel so

734
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: reflected in moments like that. But it is so but

735
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: like Adam does become more and more adult as the

736
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: show goes on, and it's so like all of the

737
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 1: characters have arcs and like pretty big transformation, but Adam

738
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 1: Adams is my favorite, like he's my favorite character. Who

739
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: which girl are you? Um? Oh god, I hate that question.

740
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm Saja. You think you're I actually

741
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: think that's true, yeah, because I think I would like

742
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: to think I no, no, no, no, no no no, I'm

743
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: Alison Williams. I'm Alison Blames. Do you think? No, I'm

744
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: not a Martie Rose. I am the girl that brings

745
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: everyone on vacation. And I say, we are having fun

746
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: now because this is when we schedule are I was like,

747
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: if everybody, we have this at seven o'clock and this

748
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: at nine o'clock and y'all better be ready because you

749
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Okay, So you think you think

750
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: you're a Martie I do not think I know, And

751
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 1: I am ashamed by that realization because I am someone

752
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: who is constantly I am so anal retentive, and I

753
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: really don't think I am, you know what I mean,

754
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: Like I think I'm so chill, I think I'm so cool.

755
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: I'm like I think i'm really you know, when I'm

756
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: right all the time, Like I always think I'm right,

757
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: and a lot of times I'm actually trying too hard

758
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: or I'm making things worse because of that. But you also,

759
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think like so much of Marnie's

760
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: journey in the show is like her realizing that she

761
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: has no idea what she wants. And you're very You're

762
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: a very driven person. Yeah. That that's something I don't

763
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: have in common with Marnie, like she and that's why

764
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: that's why I think you're more of a Shoshana. Yeah Shoshanna,

765
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: you know, like packing everything up and moving to Japan,

766
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: like I've done that, not to Japan, but like moved

767
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: to like another place, like I've done that multiple times.

768
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: Um So that is relatable. But I do think at

769
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I'm most like Marnie. Um

770
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: and you are Jemima Kirk, I'm not Jessa. No, I'm Hannah.

771
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no no, but I mean you

772
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: have Hannah qualities, but you're definitely Jim. Do you think, Jess, Yeah,

773
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: you're You're a cool girl in and out of the

774
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: live you can like you'll disappear for months and come

775
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: back and be like, do you want to go to

776
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: the mall? Like you know, like manic Pixie girl. I

777
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: have never been told that in these don't fuck about

778
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: anybody's thoughts. Beliefs are emotions, but you understand them innately,

779
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: like this is your emotional radical idea. To me, you

780
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: are emotionally intelligently understand everyone's psychosis, and yet you choose

781
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: to ignore them if it's like totally like if you're like,

782
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: this is absolutely something that doesn't deserve my energy right now,

783
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: Like Jessa is the most grounded character out of the

784
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: four of them somehow, in some ways, I think I

785
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: think so because she's the only one out of the

786
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: four of them that knows who she is, that knows

787
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: what she wants and almost never compromises that, where the

788
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: other three are a little more issue Washi and I

789
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: don't think really know themselves. But Jess is not ambitious,

790
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: and I am very ambitious. But the thing about Jessa

791
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: is like her mania and the way that manifests externally

792
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: is a lot more you know, Um, it fluctuates a

793
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: lot more. Well, I think I'm a ray. Um that's

794
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: so funny because like I'm kind of a ray. On

795
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: the hand of it all, let's just talk about Lena

796
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: Dunham in the cultural moment of when it came out,

797
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: everyone hated her. Hated her because, I mean, the more

798
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 1: the industry treated her as this like wounder kind, like

799
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: the more accolades girls received, and like in the first season,

800
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: it really did it wasn't. I mean, we should maybe

801
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: look up the stats, but like it definitely like one

802
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: a ton of awards. It received so much critical praise.

803
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 1: But then I think the sharp turn that it wasn't.

804
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 1: It was almost more of like a parallel. The more

805
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: that she was critically praised and like praised by the industry,

806
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: the more the culture at large hate her, which is

807
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,919
Speaker 1: the case of a lot of like rising wonder kind

808
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: or whatever, and it's specifically women. Yeah, well that's what

809
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, is I mean, all the things

810
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: that we can say about Lena Dunhaman why she's problematic

811
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: have already been said, so um, Like, I feel like

812
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: it's hard to contribute to the conversation in terms of

813
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: like their privilege and how these characters manifested, but in

814
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: terms of like what I feel like, I think that's

815
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: something that's often missing from the conversation of how we

816
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: criticize Lena Dunham. And this show specifically was around a

817
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: lexicon of white womanhood that um became a little bit

818
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: of a meme around this time, because Girls as a

819
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 1: show became a punchline about white women over and over again, right,

820
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 1: white womanhood and Lena Dunham off screen as well as

821
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: on screen, We're like modeling a version of of whiteness

822
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: that is so insidious and gets away with a lot,

823
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, especially in how Lena was

824
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: acting as a celebrity during this time. And so the

825
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: way this show became a punchline about white woman head,

826
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: I think reached a point that was truly misogynistic. Like

827
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: I think that like when I'm I honestly I'm thinking

828
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: about like men and gay men specifically, and how there

829
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: are a lot there were there are a lot of

830
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: jokes they're like white women, Am I right? And there is,

831
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: But I think that we don't understand that when we

832
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: like kind of use white women quote unquote, Like when

833
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: when when men or like you know, people that benefit

834
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: from that privilege, like use white woman as like a

835
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: punch line over and over again. That is a kind

836
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: of misogyny. And I do also feel like gay men

837
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: that were criticizing this show at the time, we're using

838
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: this kind of critique of white womanhood to shield themselves

839
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: from their own privilege as men. And I think that

840
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: that attitude is literally given a characterization in the show

841
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 1: in the form of Elijah, who's played by Andrew Ranals,

842
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: who is hilarious but like is so toxic and and

843
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: it's like an an engine behind a lot of the

844
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: drama between the friends because remember he fox Marini in

845
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: season two and drives away between MANI um he and

846
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: like Hannah kicks him out of her apartment, and he

847
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: is constantly being a horrible to the girls and like

848
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: excusing it with his queerness exactly, yes, using queerness as

849
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: a shield. Queerness quote unquote as a shield. Um. And

850
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: then there's all I think, obviously the layer on top

851
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: of all of that is like that phobia, like do

852
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 1: you I don't, do you remember? Oh my god, it

853
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: was It was horrible, so hard because all of the

854
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: conversation was like, there's so much nudity and girls, there's

855
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: so much sex and girls, but like what wasn't being

856
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: said was there shouldn't be because of what Lena Dunham

857
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: looks like. And there's also less nudity in girls than

858
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: there isn't sex in the City and like all these

859
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: other HBO shows that have nudity all the time, like

860
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: I remember. So there's an episode in season two, guest

861
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: starring Patrick Wilson where Hannah meets this man through her

862
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: job at the coffee shop, and the episode is like

863
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: a bottle episode where she spends this whirlwind weekend with

864
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,319
Speaker 1: him that basically is like an entire relationship over the

865
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: course of one weekend. And the conversation about it at

866
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: the time was that this is so unrealistic, this is

867
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 1: a dream sequence because he's too hot for her, he

868
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: would never fuck her. As if fat women aren't having

869
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: sex every day every corner of the world. It's it's

870
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: very strange and like I guess for me now it's

871
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: different now watching it like as some as like a

872
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: fat woman, Whereas when I was like watching this when

873
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 1: it was airing, I did not identify as a woman,

874
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: and so it's like a very different experience. But like

875
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it was like for her at

876
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: that time. And I'm sure she's talked about it. I'm

877
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: sure she's written about it, but like to have a

878
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: like every day think piece about your body, like oh

879
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: my god, that's horrible. And I'm not saying it excuses

880
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: anything that she's done or who she is, but like

881
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 1: it's still fucking crazy. I think a lot of the

882
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the reaction, in addition to

883
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: fat phobia, had to do with the execution, because when

884
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: you think about sex in the city or like HBO

885
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: shows of that time, sex scenes still had like stunning

886
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: like lighting in shadows, a lot more modesty, like mostly

887
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: you only see tits and usually it's like covered up.

888
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 1: A lot of time there was a lot more kind

889
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: of like coinness around how they would do nudity in

890
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: some of the raunch r HBO shows where Hannah Horvath

891
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 1: is in you know, bad lighting, full bush full nudity

892
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: like and not not in like nice positions he shot

893
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: in the most like unflattering way, but not like not

894
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: like gratuitously unflattering, but just like very matter of fact,

895
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: which watching today still felt radical, like are you watching?

896
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: Still felt radical to me. And there are shows that

897
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: I think have done like I hate I hate this term,

898
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: but like body positivity better, like I think Shrill is

899
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: a much better explorer of like fatness and like being

900
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: a fat woman such. Yes, And I also think the

901
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: final season was really good too. I haven't finished yet,

902
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,439
Speaker 1: There'll be another flu watch. Yes. Do you remember when

903
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: um Lena was on the cover of Vogue and they

904
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: released like some stunning any Leviowitz photos and Jezebel was like,

905
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: we will offer ten thousand dollars to the person who

906
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 1: shows us the unretouched photos of thing that Donna is

907
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: d disgusting. And do you remember when Jezebel was like

908
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: the cream of the crop, like creme to la creme,

909
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 1: like best journalism, like nothing was more exciting than Jezebel,

910
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: and they had it out for her. Yes, And Jezebel

911
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: was even kind of like a character on the show,

912
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: like when Hannah in season two gets a job writing

913
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: it blogging for like a click baity website. It's very

914
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: obviously a Jezebel stand in. Yeah, and it's so I

915
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,240
Speaker 1: remember Lena like tweeting being like people paying ten grand

916
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: for my nudes just subscribe to HBO, like it's all

917
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: unretouched girl, Like what the fun? Um? Yeah, I mean

918
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: that that's I think emblematic of a lot of things

919
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 1: that were going on at the time, but just Lena

920
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: hate in general. Like I used to be a Lena hater.

921
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I still don't like a lot of things

922
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: about Lena, but I think I can appreciate her our

923
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: own in a way that I didn't in my like

924
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: early New York years, because like I don't know if

925
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: I've toil do this. Um, you know, I used to

926
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: date my first boyfriend in New York was this guy

927
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: who like loved girls and loved Lena Dunham, and like

928
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,240
Speaker 1: I remember throughout our relationship really resenting that about them

929
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: about him and feeling like he was basic because that

930
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: was like his favorite show, you know, And I had

931
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: kind of moved past that end my life, and um,

932
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: when we broke up, it was like really horrible. It's

933
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: like a really tough breakup for me. He was the

934
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 1: only time I've ever been broken up with. I'm always

935
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: the breaker reppert Um and um, here's not you. That

936
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: was really hard for me. Um, and so I just

937
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 1: like really really hated him post breakup. It was like

938
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: a torrential kind of like drawn out thing. And Um,

939
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: weeks after we broke up, he called me and I

940
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: was thinking, like, oh my god, does he want to

941
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: get back together there? Does he want to have to talk?

942
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: Is he finally going to statiate all these outline questions

943
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: that I still have about our breakup or whatever. He

944
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: was like, Hi, I'm so sorry. Um, I have gon

945
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: arehea and also syphilis. And I'm not sure if I

946
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: got it like after we dated, or if I got

947
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: it with the person that I slept with while we

948
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 1: were dating. Oh god, it's like a girl's episode. I

949
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: didn't know that he had cheated on me, it was,

950
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: and so I found out on that phone call that

951
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,919
Speaker 1: he had slept with someone else, and I was like, cool, great, cool, cool, cool.

952
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: I didn't have gnoihea syphilis. Um, but he did mail

953
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: me a signed copy of Lena Dunham's book that came

954
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: out at that exact time, and it literally I literally

955
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: still have her memoir like two fran Love Lena as

956
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: a sorry almost gave you gonaiha gift, which is honestly

957
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: worse than the Gnareha because I can get rid of Gnaia,

958
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: but I can't selve his book. I have it for life.

959
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think I like I think, and

960
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: this is hard for me to say. I think I

961
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 1: wanted to be her a little bit at the time,

962
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: because you know, I mean, you're you were talking about

963
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: like where you were in your life when Girls was

964
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: coming out. I was in two thousand two, in two

965
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: thousand twelve when the show would have come out, Like

966
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: I was exactly the age of the I was almost

967
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: exactly the age of the characters in the show. I

968
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 1: like wanted to be I wanted to do what she

969
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: was doing. Um, I don't think I wanted to be

970
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: her specifically, but like I saw in her someone who

971
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,839
Speaker 1: was so ambitious and like, you know, I think at

972
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: the time it was like starting to come out how

973
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: like connected she was and how much of this like

974
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 1: was about nepotism. But like obviously even with that nepotism,

975
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 1: she none of this would have happened without her incredible

976
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: talent um, and I think there was some part of

977
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: me that like was kind of inspired by her. Anybody

978
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: that has aspirations to make TV, which you and I

979
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: both do, like will rise end. We are very free

980
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 1: to have meetings. Yeah exactly, Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, if

981
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: you want to slide into our dm s and talk

982
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: about I want to talk to us about our writing projects.

983
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: We definitely have them. I literally, I mean, I literally

984
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: have I mean I feel like every you know, fag

985
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: working in Hollywood has a four Friends leaving in Brooklyn

986
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: linked pilot. But but like that five friends, yeah, but

987
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,240
Speaker 1: of course yes, like of course I have a pilot

988
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: like that, you know what I mean. But like I

989
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: think it's a testament to how that format works and

990
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 1: how I personally will actually never g tired of that show,

991
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: like I will always want to show about four Friends

992
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 1: and whatever that era of New York is like, because

993
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 1: New York is changing all the time, and also who

994
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: those friends are, because we have only still seen very

995
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: specific permutations of it. We still haven't seen the queer

996
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: version of it. No, I still have not, And like, yes,

997
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: I know we have things like queer as Folk, which

998
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 1: are like the closest approximation, but we haven't. We have

999
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: not had this. There has not been a version of

1000
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: the like young people living in New York coming of

1001
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: age story told about queer people. So if you want

1002
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 1: to read my Pilot sad and return about that as

1003
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: a kind of trans sex in the city, you just

1004
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: slide into my DM mama because she is already. These

1005
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 1: shows will be made until the end of time, and

1006
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: they will always be both referencing and deconstructing the versions

1007
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: of themselves that came before them, exactly exactly period. We

1008
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: will be back next week with a discussion on Nicole Kidman,

1009
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: The Woman, the Myth, the Legend, heartbreak will feel good

1010
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: on a podcast like this, um please um. You know,

1011
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: watch your favorite Nicole Kidman movie and anticipation. Um. And

1012
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: you know you could always like tweeted us and tell

1013
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: us which which Nicole Kidman properties you want us to

1014
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 1: talk about us your stories? Also Instagram our new Instagram

1015
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: like a virgin for nine. Also like tell us what

1016
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: you think about this girl's episode? What's your favorite episode

1017
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: of Girls? Are you a Hannah Amarti a Jessa a Showshana?

1018
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 1: Are you a Ray? Are you an Adam and um

1019
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: tell us what to talk about next, whether it's you know,

1020
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: a show, a book, a cultural phenomenon. We want to

1021
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 1: hear from you, and I think that you can call

1022
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: us or also like We love it when you slide

1023
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: into our d M, so tag our Instagram and tell

1024
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: us like what you want us to watch And of

1025
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: course you can call to confess at three two three repentance.

1026
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: That's three to three seven three six two three two six.

1027
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: Leave us a review on Apple podcasts. We love to

1028
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: see them. I'm your co host Rose Damn You. You

1029
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: can find me anywhere on social media at Rose Damn

1030
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: You and I'm friends Squishco. You can find me anywhere

1031
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: on social media as well. You can subscribe to Like

1032
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 1: a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts. Leave us a

1033
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: review on Apple podcast or raining on Spotify. Like a

1034
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: Virgin is an i Heeart radio production. Our producers Phoebe Unter,

1035
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and

1036
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: Nikki Etour. Until next week see later. Virgins Me