Speaker 1: This is Gavin Newsom and this is Senator Amy Klobuchart.
Speaker 1: First of all, I'm really happy that you're here because
Speaker 1: I want folks to appreciate Senator Klobuchart, the fact that
Speaker 1: you are one of the most productive. You're the face
Speaker 1: of productivity, a politician that not only gets relative okay,
Speaker 1: it gets things done. I mean it is remarkable. You
Speaker 1: look at at so many people in the Senate and
Speaker 1: you just you feel like, you know, it's a club,
Speaker 1: and obviously it's it's you know, it's there's a lot
Speaker 1: of status, but you're often not necessarily affirmed that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of progress being made, but you are able
Speaker 1: to lay claim to a lot of progress, including just yesterday,
Speaker 1: President Trump signed a bill to Take it Down Act,
Speaker 1: a bipartisan bill that you and Ted CRU's co sponsor
Speaker 1: tell me more about it.
Speaker 2: So this came out of which I know you're familiar
Speaker 2: with all this, but just what's going on in the
Speaker 2: internet right now where there's no rules and you've got
Speaker 2: a non consensual and AI created porn and one year,
Speaker 2: this is FBI stats, or over twenty suicides of kids
Speaker 2: they are courting a girlfriend or a boyfriend. They send
Speaker 2: a photo and then that photo goes all over their
Speaker 2: schools or there's some kind of threat or you know,
Speaker 2: asking for money, and they think their life is over
Speaker 2: and they actually take their own lives. So Center Cruise
Speaker 2: and I he is the chair of the Commerce Committee
Speaker 2: right now, we joined forces and introduced this bill called
Speaker 2: the Take It Down Act. It simply says the platforms
Speaker 2: have to take down these images non consential images in
Speaker 2: forty eight hours and then creates criminal liability on the
Speaker 2: people that put them on or extends criminal liability. So
Speaker 2: we got that through the Senate, but then we were
Speaker 2: stopped at the end of the year. It was part
Speaker 2: of a bigger bill. And at the inaugural lunch, as
Speaker 2: you're aware of, Governor, I cheered the inauguration something I
Speaker 2: took on before we knew who won. And I brought
Speaker 2: up to the President and the First Lady this bill
Speaker 2: and I said, this is a bill that you know
Speaker 2: would fit in First Lady with some of the work
Speaker 2: you're doing. And three days later her office called ours
Speaker 2: and then she really helped to get it through the
Speaker 2: House and it got signed into law.
Speaker 1: So I love that, I mean. And so a couple
Speaker 1: of things just to reflect on. And I want to
Speaker 1: go back to the inaugural because people were I think
Speaker 1: a lot of folks wondering why is Senator Klobahark kicking
Speaker 1: off the inaugural festivities? And we'll talk about your unique
Speaker 1: role in that respect, but how about just the role
Speaker 1: of bipartisanship, the role you played and the role it
Speaker 1: sounds like the first lady played, but also Senator Cruz,
Speaker 1: is it? I mean this is an anomalous Is this
Speaker 1: something to be hopeful about? Is this one off?
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: What? What?
Speaker 1: What's your sense is there was there incentives for good behavior?
Speaker 1: Have you gotten criticized for working on the other side?
Speaker 2: I think, first of all, I've always believed in working
Speaker 2: with people you don't always agree with. That courage isn't
Speaker 2: just standing by yourself courages whether you're going to stand
Speaker 2: next to someone you don't always agree with for the
Speaker 2: betterment of this country. And I have done that in
Speaker 2: the Senate, working with everyone from Josh Holly on antitrust
Speaker 2: issues to Chuck Grassly on biofuels. I mean, you could
Speaker 2: just go on. And however, I do think the president
Speaker 2: of this incident aside where we were able to work
Speaker 2: on this bill with him when the rhetoric and the
Speaker 2: things that are said makes it harder to function and
Speaker 2: bipartisan because he will go after people if they don't
Speaker 2: do exactly what he wants, and it's all part of
Speaker 2: how he's doing this. So you know, in this case,
Speaker 2: I guess we got an exception. They like this bill,
Speaker 2: but I do think it makes it harder. And my
Speaker 2: goal in life is to do what best for the country,
Speaker 2: And as you know, sometimes you take grief when you
Speaker 2: work with people or take positions that not everyone agrees with.
Speaker 2: But I do think that we need more of that,
Speaker 2: not less of it when it comes to governing right now.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad the bill got passed into law. I
Speaker 2: continue to, like most many Americans, you know, wake up
Speaker 2: every day and think, what did he do? Now? He
Speaker 2: just fired the Congressional Library, and he's getting these medicaid cuts,
Speaker 2: He's moving us backwards on clean energy, all these things
Speaker 2: that I think that actually gives our country a cutting
Speaker 2: edge medical research we should be moving forward. So but
Speaker 2: despite all that, I will continue to do what I
Speaker 2: think is best and if there's a way to do
Speaker 2: things from permitting reform on where we can get things
Speaker 2: moving better. I'm game to working with Republicans.
Speaker 1: Love all that, and I want to touch on all
Speaker 1: those things. But let me go back just a little
Speaker 1: bit to the origin story on how you were able
Speaker 1: to sort of smooth this bill over. I love that
Speaker 1: you said it was that a lunch and it was
Speaker 1: just engaging on the personal where the first lady actually
Speaker 1: followed up took you. It took very seriously your request
Speaker 1: to engage a few days later. But let's take us
Speaker 1: back to that inaugural. I mean that that's an interesting aside,
Speaker 1: but what was the most striking part of that You
Speaker 1: were there. You're the chair of a joint committee, a
Speaker 1: bipartisan committee in Congress. That's related to the inaugural. Maybe
Speaker 1: you could talk a little bit about that role. But
Speaker 1: that role led you to give a little speech remarks
Speaker 1: about enduring democracy, etc. I'm curious, So what enduring memories
Speaker 1: do you have around those Inhugro facilities can't.
Speaker 2: Reveal it all and your podcasts have to save some
Speaker 2: of it. But you know, it started out in the
Speaker 2: White House and I with everyone with the president at
Speaker 2: the time, President Biden and Vice President Harris, and then
Speaker 2: of course the Vances and the Trumps, the speaker of
Speaker 2: the House, Center Schumer, you name it. So everyone's there,
Speaker 2: and then we divide into cars. And this is a tradition.
Speaker 2: And I will still go down in American history as
Speaker 2: the only person who has ever ridden in a car
Speaker 2: alone with Donald Trump and Joe Biden for about twenty
Speaker 2: minutes one day. I'll reveal that conversation was quite talkative.
Speaker 2: I brought up the fires in California. You will say
Speaker 2: that that was one of my plans to do because
Speaker 2: I knew that that President Trump was going out there
Speaker 2: and President Biden had been there. So I thought, okay,
Speaker 2: here's a common ground moment with the firefighters and the like.
Speaker 2: And we talked about many other things as well, and
Speaker 2: it was a very vibrant conversation. And then I spent
Speaker 2: the day the inauguration and the like, and it's ends
Speaker 2: with the ended with that lunch. But I had my
Speaker 2: four minutes, and I decided I wrote every word myself,
Speaker 2: and I said, I want this to meet the test
Speaker 2: of time, because I knew what was coming at us,
Speaker 2: the assault on the rule of law, the economic uncertainty,
Speaker 2: and so what I said were these three things Number one.
Speaker 2: Our democracy is a hot mess. It always has been,
Speaker 2: but it's our democracy, and you know we must be
Speaker 2: as leaders. And I meant every person in their own
Speaker 2: neighborhood or whatever they do, we've got to be the
Speaker 2: shelter in the storm and protect that democracy. Now that's
Speaker 2: a Bob Dylan quote. Kevin, he is from Minnesota and
Speaker 2: just a little Hollywood moment. I like to complete unknown.
Speaker 2: I thought it should have won the Academy Award. I'm
Speaker 2: going to weigh in on that right now. Okay, But
Speaker 2: I didn't say that at the inauguration. Okay, I did
Speaker 2: say that reats regrets or yeah. Secondly, that that presidential inauguration.
Speaker 2: In other countries, it's held in a presidential palace or
Speaker 2: executive office building. In our country, it's held in the
Speaker 2: People's House for a reason, and that's because we have
Speaker 2: three equal branches of government under the Constitution. And all
Speaker 2: nine justices were there, maybe a show of for not
Speaker 2: all there, they all aresvp'ed. When it was outside. I
Speaker 2: knew the list, and we had the Congress there, and
Speaker 2: we're still waiting for some of the Republicans in Congress
Speaker 2: to stand up. We only need four of them to
Speaker 2: stand up against say Medicaid cuts. The third thing and
Speaker 2: final thing was just that the power in that rotunda,
Speaker 2: despite all the billionaires that were in there, it did
Speaker 2: not come from in that rotunda, from a freshman member
Speaker 2: of Congress to the President of the United States. It
Speaker 2: came from outside of the rotunda. And to me, when
Speaker 2: you see people standing up, yes, activists, people who are angry,
Speaker 2: but you also see the quiet voices now of farmers,
Speaker 2: soybean farmers in the middle of Minnesota who show up
Speaker 2: at a town hall find themselves seated next to a
Speaker 2: woman who's holding a sign I was there this happened
Speaker 2: that says this is not normal, looks at her, which
Speaker 2: is a common sign people are holding now in rallies Democrats,
Speaker 2: and he says to her, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: And she said, well, this isn't normal. What's happening. Well,
Speaker 2: I'm normal, she goes, No, I know you're normal. But
Speaker 2: the reason I raise that story is the quiet voices,
Speaker 2: the people that don't usually show up. The fact that
Speaker 2: they're standing up right now and feel like they must
Speaker 2: talk to their governor or their senator, or their mayor
Speaker 2: or their congress member. That matters, and We've got to
Speaker 2: keep that part of democracy alive and strong.
Speaker 1: I love that. And look, you talk about this notion
Speaker 1: of co equal branches, the government, popular sovereignty, the rule
Speaker 1: of law, the best of Roman republic and Greek democracy
Speaker 1: and founding fathers vision being tested, the rule of law,
Speaker 1: this notion of the constitutional crisis that some have attached
Speaker 1: at least as a tagline to this moment. What's your
Speaker 1: over under? I mean, where do you think we are
Speaker 1: on the basis of that speech, This notion of it
Speaker 1: enduring democracy have been vandalized even more acutely than you
Speaker 1: had even imagined one hundred plus days ago.
Speaker 2: Yes, and it's not like we didn't expect bad things
Speaker 2: to happen, given who some of the nominees were for
Speaker 2: some of the justice jobs, given that we had seen
Speaker 2: what he'd done before. In certainly January sixth, I also
Speaker 2: was there with President Biden and Roy Blunt when that
Speaker 2: all happened. The day of January sixth was, you know,
Speaker 2: Mike Pence and me and Blunt walking down that pathway
Speaker 2: to the house, walking over broken glass at three in
Speaker 2: the morning, with the last of the electoral ballots, including
Speaker 2: California's in that box. So I knew that, and then
Speaker 2: we were with Biden on the stage that aside. I
Speaker 2: didn't predict they would go this far with you know,
Speaker 2: just dismantling usaid, dismantling people's hopes and dreams, with all
Speaker 2: kinds of cuts and things they've done on cancer research
Speaker 2: and the like. Their willingness to even just take on
Speaker 2: independent bodies like the Consumer Protection Agency, which we called
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty million bad products and saved Americans
Speaker 2: from lead pois and dangerous pool drains and the like.
Speaker 2: Just their willingness and the president's willingness to bully people
Speaker 2: and whether it's journalists or universities, and then the other
Speaker 2: flip side of it, now I'm going to get to
Speaker 2: my silver lining here, is just that the courts have
Speaker 2: been standing up over two hundred times with judges appointed
Speaker 2: by Bush and by Trump himself and by Reagan. I
Speaker 2: didn't even know those judges were still out there, but
Speaker 2: they are. They and they, along with the Democratic appointed judges,
Speaker 2: have been making courageous decisions. So that is a pushback.
Speaker 2: So that's why some people say we're in a crisis.
Speaker 2: I'm just a little more saying when I look at
Speaker 2: the Civil War. Okay, that was that was a constitutional crisis.
Speaker 2: To me, we're in a starting to be in an
Speaker 2: economic crisis if this continues, but we are closer to
Speaker 2: a constitutional crisis. But to me, it hasn't arrived yet
Speaker 2: because of what the judges doing their jobs. The fact
Speaker 2: that while they are defying the administration is defying some
Speaker 2: of these rulings for sure, and where that is going
Speaker 2: to be decided in the near future. They are following
Speaker 2: some of them. They just seem to pick and choose
Speaker 2: which ones they don't like. So all of that it
Speaker 2: doesn't make it feel better, but it makes it to
Speaker 2: me like you just can't give up the fight. It's
Speaker 2: made a difference. I started the first weekend after that inauguration.
Speaker 2: I found myself at the container store in suburban Minneapolis,
Speaker 2: and I had this cart and I had all these
Speaker 2: like Marie Condo like plastic things because I decided I
Speaker 2: was going to reorganize my coffees and teas. And this
Speaker 2: stranger comes up the center. I know why you're here,
Speaker 2: and I go, well, I just it's Saturday morning. I
Speaker 2: just I'm going to organize my kitchen. She goes, no,
Speaker 2: you're here because you feel like your life is out
Speaker 2: of control in your job in Washington, and you're trying
Speaker 2: to control things you're doing. And I went there two
Speaker 2: other times and then I got to work. So the
Speaker 2: point is is that we have all been through this.
Speaker 2: But the answer when you look at some of these
Speaker 2: court decisions, when you look at some of the Republicans
Speaker 2: who've been so timid, but when you look at what
Speaker 2: they're starting to say on Medicaid, that if you give
Speaker 2: up now, it's the worst. The citizens standing up, calling, emailing, yelling.
Speaker 2: I mean, it has made a difference. So I just
Speaker 2: I and those quiet voices have at just as much.
Speaker 1: I love that. And by the way, I've been to
Speaker 1: the container store a few times myself, and perhaps you've
Speaker 1: just I thought I was simply organizing, So I think
Speaker 1: it's a deeper, deeper reason. You may be right. So
Speaker 1: one thing we can control, right, control the controllables. But
Speaker 1: let me go back. You talked about this, we sort
Speaker 1: of challenge, and I appreciate your point of view on
Speaker 1: this whether or not we're in a constitutional crisis, the
Speaker 1: issues around rule of law, but you did imply and
Speaker 1: you've been very vocal on this, and I'm really grateful
Speaker 1: you've been one of the leading voices keeping the focus
Speaker 1: and the attention and not getting distracted on the fundamental
Speaker 1: issue of these tariffs, which I personally believe he has
Speaker 1: no legal authority. And of course California found a lawsuit
Speaker 1: along those lines, does in other states joining that under
Speaker 1: the International Economic Emergency Powers Act. But the question of
Speaker 1: the tariffs, it's remarkable to me how you know, it's
Speaker 1: still dominant in our lives, but not necessarily in the
Speaker 1: media in the last week or so. Back to this
Speaker 1: notion of you know, I guess we can get to
Speaker 1: the big beautiful bill, We can get to this notion
Speaker 1: of distractions, et cetera. But the impacts you've highlighted the
Speaker 1: impacts of these tariffs that continue to this day thirty
Speaker 1: percent in China, obviously, tariffs to our big trading partners
Speaker 1: north and south, in Canada and in Mexico, but impact
Speaker 1: to small businesses, and you've called it out in your
Speaker 1: own state, and you're seeing a state of anxiety and
Speaker 1: uncertainty all across the United States? Is that fair or unfair?
Speaker 1: Over stated and understated.
Speaker 2: Now and it is to me the driving problem right
Speaker 2: now with the economics and I want to thank you
Speaker 2: for bringing that suit and showing such leadership on this front,
Speaker 2: especially with your major economy, the fourth biggest in the.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you and the world. Senator, I appreciate her
Speaker 1: one point one trillion. We love to brag about that
Speaker 1: is like, but watch India. They're right behind us. I
Speaker 1: worry a little we may slip.
Speaker 2: So when you look at the tariffs, We've always had
Speaker 2: targeted terraffs. I've supported some of these, for like with
Speaker 2: iron ores mined up in northern Minnesota. And when China
Speaker 2: does illegal steel dumping, it's a huge problem. And this
Speaker 2: was something Barack Obama put in. Trump continued in the
Speaker 2: first administration. Biden continued, but now he has put this
Speaker 2: into across the board tariffs involving some of our closest allies,
Speaker 2: our closest allies in the world. In Minnesota, you know,
Speaker 2: we can see Canada from our porch like they are
Speaker 2: our biggest trading partner. They eclipse the next few together,
Speaker 2: and this is very damaging for building materials for homes.
Speaker 2: For you look at some of the fertilizer and things
Speaker 2: like that. Our soybean market in China is huge and
Speaker 2: while he reduced those tariffs, they're still at an inordinately
Speaker 2: high level as opposed to using the clout of the
Speaker 2: United States of America, this incredible economy to negotiate more
Speaker 2: targeted things, and that is not how he's done things.
Speaker 2: And he's pushing China more into the arms of Russia.
Speaker 2: And then China is advertising. You've probably seen their ad
Speaker 2: in English to other countries say hey, do business with us,
Speaker 2: because we have decided to put these tariffs on countries
Speaker 2: like South Korea and Japan and Europe, all of who
Speaker 2: have been major major partners for US, yes, in the economy,
Speaker 2: but also in security. So the effect small business owner
Speaker 2: a place called busy Baby. My husband thought it was
Speaker 2: a lazy baby. I know it's busy Baby. Busy Baby
Speaker 2: she started this Entrepreneur of the Year honored by Trump's
Speaker 2: Small Business Administration.
Speaker 1: Can't make it up, and she can't.
Speaker 2: Do her business with these tariffs. Doesn't have the phone
Speaker 2: number of the White House. She's not like a major
Speaker 2: CEO that can vaultz in there and say, hey, can
Speaker 2: we get exception for our products? More power to them, okay,
Speaker 2: but she doesn't have ability. She's not invited by the
Speaker 2: Treasury Secretary to JP Morgan to go into the meeting
Speaker 2: in New York City. She doesn't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: So it also creates an inequity in the economy where
Speaker 2: these small businesses that have been just incredibly important to
Speaker 2: the next big development. I look in Minnesota, Target started
Speaker 2: as a dry goods store, and you know three Am
Speaker 2: started up in the slow place in Duluth. I mean,
Speaker 2: these companies start small lot of the time, and then
Speaker 2: the small we're just messing around without capitalism is what
Speaker 2: he's doing. He's trying to do like a controlled economy
Speaker 2: from the White House instead of allowing capitalism to unleash
Speaker 2: the kind of new ideas that we've seen.
Speaker 1: And Centator, you know what's most insidious. And I love
Speaker 1: that you brought her up. We had the opportunity to
Speaker 1: visit with her on the podcast and she talked about
Speaker 1: how she was inspired by her by her newborn and
Speaker 1: now she has to look them in the eye and say, honey,
Speaker 1: we may not only lose the business, we may lose
Speaker 1: our home. Because she's leveraged her home in the mortgage
Speaker 1: to get a line of credit. Because she just made
Speaker 1: a deal with you reference Target and Walmart to expand
Speaker 1: the business, and now her house is on the line,
Speaker 1: not just her business, in her future and looking her
Speaker 1: kid in the eyes and having him tell them that
Speaker 1: this is It's so important to highlight those stories and
Speaker 1: to highlight that example.
Speaker 2: It's like their roadkill in this thing, because the bigger
Speaker 2: companies I'm also concerned about. Honestly, they're a big part
Speaker 2: of our economy. We have in Minnesota, like fifteen sixteen
Speaker 2: Fortune five hundred companies, and a lot of them do
Speaker 2: work overseas, and a lot of ad companies and the like.
Speaker 2: But these little companies are just going to be roadkill
Speaker 2: because they don't have the margins as you just pointed
Speaker 2: out about this woman leveraging her home, or as I
Speaker 2: mentioned the soybean farmer, they already lost a bunch of
Speaker 2: their market to Brazil during the last Trump tariffs, and
Speaker 2: now they've gone down to like twenty percent of that
Speaker 2: total soybean market in China, and now they're going to
Speaker 2: go even less. So I just he inherited an economy
Speaker 2: that we know there was inflation. We should never embrace
Speaker 2: the status quo. There's so much more we need to do.
Speaker 2: I mentioned permitting, housing, childcare, all these things, but he's
Speaker 2: now just dragging us the other way. I mean, costs
Speaker 2: are up, chaos is up, corruption is up, and sadly
Speaker 2: your four oh one k's are down and the economy's down.
Speaker 2: And this is just small businesses. I've lost three hundred
Speaker 2: thousand employees since the beginning of the year. This is
Speaker 2: just not the direction we should be going.
Speaker 1: No, I appreciate that. I mean, it's been said over
Speaker 1: and over again of headlines and the economists headlines and
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, the envy of the world, the
Speaker 1: United States of America's economy, despite inflation, was beginning to cool,
Speaker 1: the economic output, growth, productivity, unemployment for women African Americans,
Speaker 1: lowest unemployment in sixty years, and as you suggest, the
Speaker 1: economy now contracting point three percent in Q one. But
Speaker 1: I think the most interesting thing and center I'm curious
Speaker 1: your take on it is this whole notion on the tariffs.
Speaker 1: The predicate on the tariffs was small businesses don't pay,
Speaker 1: we don't pay, Walmart doesn't pay. And then out of nowhere,
Speaker 1: Trump this week says, wait, hold on, eat the tariffs.
Speaker 1: He says to Walmart, which suggests perhaps someone does pay
Speaker 1: on the other side of the border, consumers and or businesses.
Speaker 2: Which is it, So it is both, but three thousand
Speaker 2: dollars of family annually, it's going to be a tariff tax.
Speaker 2: At tariff tax, three thousand dollars strollers twenty five percent
Speaker 2: have gone up. So it's like a baby tax, but
Speaker 2: if you have a baby, but it's also a family tax.
Speaker 2: And so everyone's got to realize what's going on here
Speaker 2: that consumers will pay, but our businesses will pay as well,
Speaker 2: and it just sets us back in the rest of
Speaker 2: the international economy. We should be building alliances. We should
Speaker 2: be the security alliances that we built around standing up
Speaker 2: for democracy. In Ukraine, we woke up from this slumber
Speaker 2: our I think our country did, woke up from the
Speaker 2: pandemic and said, wait a minute, we got to get
Speaker 2: more secure relationships with some of these other countries, and
Speaker 2: that also means economic relationships. And he's just taking us backwards.
Speaker 2: Hopefully not in Ukraine. I hope that some peace will
Speaker 2: come out of this that will work for Ukraine, but
Speaker 2: he's certainly taking us back economically and so and the
Speaker 2: one other point you raised, Governor was just this destruction
Speaker 2: thing and it's so hard when you hear this because
Speaker 2: he does some really bad things, I believe, so that
Speaker 2: no one will focus on the other things like bright
Speaker 2: shiny object. About a week ago or so, on a Friday,
Speaker 2: Stephen Miller brought up works for Trump in the White House,
Speaker 2: brought up a habeas corpus, and so I happened to
Speaker 2: be on a Sunday show after that. So he brings
Speaker 2: up a habeas corpus and the president has no power
Speaker 2: under the Constitution to take away people's rights to contest detention. Okay,
Speaker 2: but he brings us up. He knows that. So then
Speaker 2: I'm on that Sunday show. So what do I get asked?
Speaker 2: On Meet the Press? I get asked about habeas corpus,
Speaker 2: and I finally was able to say what I've always
Speaker 2: wanted to say, which is he knows very well the
Speaker 2: president can't do that under the Constitution. And Senator Barasso,
Speaker 2: who'd been on before me, on the same show it said,
Speaker 2: it's not on their agenda. Well it's not. They're not
Speaker 2: going to spend weeks on this and it's not going
Speaker 2: to pass anyway. With many conservative commentators are against this.
Speaker 2: So I said, he brought it up, so you'd ask
Speaker 2: me about it right now instead of asking me about tariffs.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a lot of what they do.
Speaker 2: And as people who care about our rights and the world,
Speaker 2: we have to take stands and make clear where we
Speaker 2: stand on this. But we cannot let people get fooled
Speaker 2: by them into spending their time screaming at the TV
Speaker 2: and they can't even hear you anyway, or screaming at
Speaker 2: a podcast about things that when what really matters right
Speaker 2: now is that their budget, which we still have to
Speaker 2: get to, is going to take thirteen point seven million
Speaker 2: people off of medicaiding their healthcare, or it's going to
Speaker 2: raise the costs for twenty million, or that these tariffs
Speaker 2: are going to mess up our entire economy and the
Speaker 2: way we do business around the world and send us
Speaker 2: pell mell down. And I just think those points is
Speaker 2: what matters the most people, And what I just judge
Speaker 2: from this crazy place I work in has the most
Speaker 2: chance of getting Republicans to say wait a minute, because
Speaker 2: we already saw them do it on Canada. Two senators
Speaker 2: bordering Canada, Murkowski and Collins, and then the two of
Speaker 2: in Kentucky. You never agree on anything. McConnell and Ran
Speaker 2: Paul agreed with Tim Kane and me that there was
Speaker 2: no emergency at the Canadian border, and maybe they did
Speaker 2: it because of Kentucky Bourbon, but I don't really care why.
Speaker 2: I appreciate.
Speaker 1: So let's contextualize. You talk about our kids, you talk
Speaker 1: about this tax cut, a tax increase, e seuse me
Speaker 1: with the terrorists, which are nothing more than a tax
Speaker 1: increase on in a regressive tax that hurts low income
Speaker 1: and work in the middle income Americans more than anyone else,
Speaker 1: but also attacks generationally as it relates to attacking working
Speaker 1: families in particular in the next generation. But we have
Speaker 1: this build back better beautiful, whatever the heck they're calling
Speaker 1: in the big beautiful. Bill Trump is on the hill.
Speaker 1: Trump was just you may have seen him walk in
Speaker 1: the halls just seconds ago.
Speaker 2: Senator.
Speaker 1: He's out there and he was just out there on
Speaker 1: press conference saying that you know, do not and dare
Speaker 1: I say, I'll say it. He says he's don't quote
Speaker 1: unquote around with medicaid, meaning he completely denies what you
Speaker 1: just suggested, that thirteen point seven million people may lose
Speaker 1: their medicaid. You suggest Democrats are suggesting that's not the case.
Speaker 2: So this bill is truly a betrayal of the middle class.
Speaker 2: There are so many things he could have done right.
Speaker 2: He could have increased taxes on billionaires in the biggest corporations.
Speaker 2: Even you do a one point every ten years brings
Speaker 2: in one hundred and fifty billion dollars on corporate tax
Speaker 2: and he could have gotten us to like a middle
Speaker 2: ground on that. He didn't do any of that. Instead,
Speaker 2: they added more tax cuts for the wealthiest and then
Speaker 2: to pay for it, that's why we call it the
Speaker 2: billionaire budget. To pay for it. This is what they're
Speaker 2: looking at, thirteen point seven million people off Medicaid. He
Speaker 2: may have said that in that session to them, but
Speaker 2: they just are voting out of the Committee on the
Speaker 2: Budget that there is no other way, according to the
Speaker 2: Congressional Budget Office, that you can get to that point
Speaker 2: with where their cuts are.
Speaker 1: Center just on that point, because I think it's so important.
Speaker 1: I mean, I bring that up because it's so infuriating,
Speaker 1: it's so in Orwellian, it's such an extraordinary statement. I mean,
Speaker 1: three point we estimate, just to put in perspective in California,
Speaker 1: and we're we're going to sort of put out detailed plans,
Speaker 1: detailed analysis on this tomorrow. But three point four million
Speaker 1: folks will be impacted through our medical our medicaid, just
Speaker 1: in California alone. The impacts across the spectrum, from issues
Speaker 1: around plant Barrenot, the impacts on our hospitals, not just
Speaker 1: rural hospitals, but hospital fees we referred to as this
Speaker 1: MCO tax, all of these other components that they have
Speaker 1: promoted and are poise to now approve. The devastation is
Speaker 1: actually outsized, profound and extraordinary. Will also increase the national
Speaker 1: debt by a minimum of three point three trillion dollars.
Speaker 1: Talk about saddling the next generation.
Speaker 2: So we do.
Speaker 1: Tax cuts to people literally who not are even asking
Speaker 1: for it, multi billionaires, centennial billionaires, not just wealthy corporations
Speaker 1: that rarely even pay that minimum tax. But tell me,
Speaker 1: sanity is being taxed right now? What the hell do
Speaker 1: we do? What is the Senate going to do? How
Speaker 1: can you stop this? And how do we focus again
Speaker 1: to your point on not getting distracted by these intentional distractions.
Speaker 2: So we need to fight this in every way, and
Speaker 2: I think that one it has to pass the House.
Speaker 2: We'll see they have fights with their hardliners on exactly
Speaker 2: what you raise for good reasons on the dat and
Speaker 2: then it's by the way, it's not just the healthcare cuts,
Speaker 2: it's the snap cuts. They want to put that over
Speaker 2: on your budget and on Minnesota's budget. I saw that
Speaker 2: on how they do it. If they're at ten percent
Speaker 2: or wherever they are on the cuts over to state budgets,
Speaker 2: Texas alone would be like five hundred million dollars, and
Speaker 2: forty of the fifty states have balanced budgets amendments, so
Speaker 2: they can't even add this while grocery prices are going up,
Speaker 2: energy prices up, all of these things. So that's what
Speaker 2: they're looking at to pay for these billionaire taxes. So
Speaker 2: if they pass this, which it's still very unclear, but
Speaker 2: if they do this on a party line Republican vote
Speaker 2: in the House comes over to the Senate. We need
Speaker 2: fifty one votes in the Senate, and the Senators have
Speaker 2: been very different on this. Some of the Republicans. First
Speaker 2: of all, they're not going to get every single one.
Speaker 2: But then you have people like Grassley. I know he's
Speaker 2: in his nineties, but he said just in the hallway yesterday,
Speaker 2: I love this. We need a redo, need a redo.
Speaker 2: That's his nice Midwestern way of saying, no, they're not
Speaker 2: going to accept this as the way it is. I
Speaker 2: think he was referring to the three hundred billion dollars
Speaker 2: in the snap cuts and some of the other things.
Speaker 2: The Senate Republicans had suggested one billion it cuts. So
Speaker 2: there's going to be a lot of this, and this
Speaker 2: is going to be the moment, I would hope, because
Speaker 2: Democrats are going to be united against this thing, and
Speaker 2: we will be doing everything to force votes and push
Speaker 2: them on it. But it is a time where people
Speaker 2: are going to stand up because he is really focused
Speaker 2: on this, and there's a bunch of Republicans in the Senate,
Speaker 2: including Josh Holly of all things, who have basically said
Speaker 2: on medicaid, I'm not going to do this and we're
Speaker 2: not going to do these kinds of cuts as of
Speaker 2: other And all it takes is four of them, by
Speaker 2: the way, four of them to stand up in the
Speaker 2: House against this. So when people get mad, I don't
Speaker 2: blame them. They get mad about things and how they are,
Speaker 2: and they're mad at Democrats. They got to look at this.
Speaker 2: It takes only four of them in the House, and
Speaker 2: four of them in the Senate. If only three of
Speaker 2: them stand up, then good old JD. Vance can come
Speaker 2: over and break the tie. But if four of them
Speaker 2: stand up, then they can't pass it. And so that's
Speaker 2: what the numbers are in the Senate and in the House.
Speaker 1: So and look, I appreciate that the point you're making
Speaker 1: that we still have agency, we're not by standards as
Speaker 1: it relates to this, and we could still save the future.
Speaker 1: But that said, we heard over and over and over
Speaker 1: again today, yesterday, this last week, failure for these guys
Speaker 1: is not an option. And of course Trump's showing up
Speaker 1: today on the hill making that point only reinforces symbolically
Speaker 1: and substantively what's at stake for the speaker, and ultimately
Speaker 1: we'll be at stake for this country. But what I
Speaker 1: mean this notion of waste, fraud and abuse, This idea
Speaker 1: that you're not cutting thirteen point seven million people off
Speaker 1: of Medicaid, that you're just asking them to work. Senator,
Speaker 1: you're just asking them to reapply every six months, not
Speaker 1: every year. It's hardly draconian, and it really is about waste,
Speaker 1: fraud and abuse. How do you counter that narrative? How
Speaker 1: how do we counter that message of that talking point
Speaker 1: coming from these folks.
Speaker 2: So we're happy to work with them on actual ways.
Speaker 2: Fraud and abuse always have. I'm always into looking at
Speaker 2: reforms and what we can do better. But when you
Speaker 2: look at medicaid, half of the people in nursing homes
Speaker 2: are on Medicaid. Okay, you've got this population tends to
Speaker 2: be the vast majority of them are kids, they're people
Speaker 2: with disabilities, they're veterans, right, and they're seniors' older people.
Speaker 2: So you've got to look at the population you're dealing
Speaker 2: with for both the SNAP programs and Medicaid in terms
Speaker 2: of what you're talking about when you talk about making
Speaker 2: it harder to apply or creating more red tape in
Speaker 2: the like. So this is I think Trump has some
Speaker 2: notion that this isn't very popular. That's why he keeps
Speaker 2: saying he doesn't want to cut Medicaid. I think that
Speaker 2: should be the proof point that maybe their argument isn't working.
Speaker 2: The other proof point, by the way, when it comes
Speaker 2: to economics, here is only thirty seven percent that is
Speaker 2: very close to the magabase. Only thirty seven percent people
Speaker 2: think he's handling the economy well, a number that I'm
Speaker 2: hot off the press. Sharing with our caucus today is
Speaker 2: that when people are asked, well, what do you think
Speaker 2: we should do to make the budget better and balance
Speaker 2: you get to a better thing with the deficit, only
Speaker 2: fourteen percent of them said cut healthcare and cut nutrition
Speaker 2: those things. Sixty eight percent said tax the billionaires and
Speaker 2: the wealthiest more in order to make sure that people
Speaker 2: aren't hurt by this. So I think they're in a
Speaker 2: very bad place here, and you've got the midterms coming
Speaker 2: around the corner. You've got they know this. This is
Speaker 2: why you're starting to see some of the Republicans stand up.
Speaker 2: I'm not being a Pollyanna. I'm just looking at the map.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the numbers. And so the key is
Speaker 2: that despite the despair of what he tries to make,
Speaker 2: people just feel like nothing is good when they look
Speaker 2: at politics. Despite all that, you got to look at
Speaker 2: some of the things that are going on in the States,
Speaker 2: like your lawsuit on the terraffs. You got to look
Speaker 2: at the fact that people of our country are going
Speaker 2: to work every day, working hard despite all this, and
Speaker 2: looking out for each other and looking out for their neighbors.
Speaker 2: That this is still happening in America, no matter what
Speaker 2: he says, or what he does every morning, or what
Speaker 2: he posts on social media, and that we as a
Speaker 2: country have to keep standing up to this because it's
Speaker 2: either some of it's worked in court, so we fight
Speaker 2: it in the courts, we fight it in Congress, and
Speaker 2: this is going to be the big test. Are those
Speaker 2: four Republicans going to stand up and we're going to
Speaker 2: make them vote on a bunch of stuff in the meantime.
Speaker 2: And then the third thing is our constituents. And that's
Speaker 2: just my plea to everyone that you've engaged so many
Speaker 2: people with this podcast. It's incredible that they remember that.
Speaker 1: I appreciate, and I also just appreciate the essential nature
Speaker 1: of this moment, just focusing on this tax bill and
Speaker 1: focusing on the tariffs and doing our best over the
Speaker 1: course the next few weeks.
Speaker 2: Talking about the fact that the Timber will beat the
Speaker 2: Lakers and the Golden State.
Speaker 1: Had to do that.
Speaker 2: Really you had to get into that. I mean, there
Speaker 2: wasn't much time left, but I thought I might might
Speaker 2: raise that.
Speaker 1: We made it almost through an entire podcast without that,
Speaker 1: I mean, I won't even bring up the last.
Speaker 2: And then I thought I did, so just let me
Speaker 2: briefly in the spirit back to this. But for us,
Speaker 2: it's very serious. I know journey continues.
Speaker 1: I got two kids that are still in bed, they
Speaker 1: have not recovered, so I understand, trust me, how serious
Speaker 1: this stuff is. I also understand how serious these the anxiety.
Speaker 1: And I just want to get to three quick topics
Speaker 1: with you. Where and I'll just jump right in. Where
Speaker 1: the hell is Elon Musk? What happened to him? What's
Speaker 1: your assessment of everything that has happened the last few weeks?
Speaker 1: Fire and fury signifying something nothing.
Speaker 2: Don't trying to get Tesla back and doing his job.
Speaker 2: I just was just the way I was in Wisconsin,
Speaker 2: by the way, on that Supreme Court situation there, and
Speaker 2: you know, not with him with the chiefs head, but
Speaker 2: I was there and I just saw how people reacted
Speaker 2: to that. And they care about their own state and
Speaker 2: their own judicial system. They don't like that this billionaire
Speaker 2: is coming over to Green Bay, and I think that
Speaker 2: the way he handled that. There are ways, and you
Speaker 2: know this, to make changes in state or federal government.
Speaker 2: You've got to look at agencies just like any business
Speaker 2: person would do. What things, what line of business isn't working.
Speaker 2: What do I want to change? How do I want
Speaker 2: to do it? And boy, I want to keep some
Speaker 2: of my new vigorous employees instead of firing everyone that's
Speaker 2: just been there less than two years. That may be
Speaker 2: the dumbest thing. And I want to keep veterinarians at USDA.
Speaker 2: I want to keep cancer researchers. I don't want to
Speaker 2: turn off all these great employees. They are the key
Speaker 2: to this of making all this work so we can
Speaker 2: get meta devices approved. And the way they handled everything
Speaker 2: was just this slash and burn approach, which then turns
Speaker 2: off other people that they didn't even fire. That makes
Speaker 2: them want to leave in pretty soon, who's going to
Speaker 2: be looking at the electric grid? So this is going
Speaker 2: to affect the economy with how he's handled this. There
Speaker 2: are things that they could do and can do to
Speaker 2: look at this in a rational way. And that's what
Speaker 2: I think why he became just such a burden on
Speaker 2: everything because of the way he went up, not necessarily
Speaker 2: the idea of reform. People don't want to own the
Speaker 2: status quo. They want to see changes to the government.
Speaker 2: It's just how he did it and how he mocked
Speaker 2: these people. Many of whom have devoted their lives to
Speaker 2: doing work that Not everyone wants to go out and
Speaker 2: fight fires all the time, right, Not everyone is putting
Speaker 2: themselves in the line or looking at these doing the
Speaker 2: kind of research that you need. They're not going to
Speaker 2: sit in a lab all day. But there are some
Speaker 2: devoted Americans that do that every day, and he's making
Speaker 2: them want to go work somewhere else. So I think
Speaker 2: that's what happened, and that's why he's back and hopefully
Speaker 2: gets Tesla back on track.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, And as someone that's invested as a taxpayer,
Speaker 1: not just as an elected official supporting the growth of
Speaker 1: the alternative vehicle industry, I appreciate the sentiments about Tesla
Speaker 1: because of the energy and entrepreneurialism that defines that company,
Speaker 1: at least has in the past, and our ability to
Speaker 1: compete for the future. You make a point about the
Speaker 1: issue of Snap and the cuts to food and food security.
Speaker 1: By the way, Trump made another Orwellian comment today in
Speaker 1: his press conference around the food cuts, around the Snap cuts,
Speaker 1: saying it will actually lower the cost of food. Only
Speaker 1: Trump could actually assert that, as he went on to
Speaker 1: say something about the cost of eggs, but also there's
Speaker 1: a part of the three legged stool of what they're
Speaker 1: also assaulted we didn't bring up, which is on the
Speaker 1: green energy side, and the fact that we will quite literally,
Speaker 1: you talk about the future, and I appreciate you brought
Speaker 1: it up center four or five times. Wasn't lost on me.
Speaker 1: You talked about that formula for success. You talked about
Speaker 1: the research and development. You talked about, you know, the
Speaker 1: foundations of what make this country great and how we
Speaker 1: built the world's largest middle class. It's because we had
Speaker 1: a formula for success and academic freedom, in investments in
Speaker 1: science and health and discovery, and entrepreneurial is the ability
Speaker 1: to get the first round draft choices around the rest
Speaker 1: of the world, the best and the brightest to come
Speaker 1: to America, and rules for risk taking but not recklessness.
Speaker 1: You talk about the importance of permitting reform and addressing
Speaker 1: aspects of what Ezra Client has referred to as the
Speaker 1: abundance agenda, which I completely embraced in Democrats. We need
Speaker 1: to own that and we need to own up to
Speaker 1: our own performance. But I want to just briefly talk
Speaker 1: about something if I'm a senator that is very personal
Speaker 1: to you and personal to all of us, but more
Speaker 1: personal to you because I've been struck by your own
Speaker 1: history with your family, your own personal health obviously now
Speaker 1: President Biden's health, and it's so topical this week. I
Speaker 1: saw you on the Sunday shows, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to necessarily get to the past per se. We're gonna
Speaker 1: have plenty of time, and on this podcast we'll talk
Speaker 1: a lot more about the past, but in relationship to
Speaker 1: the present and the future, just your relationship with President
Speaker 1: Biden and his relationship to this moment as it relates
Speaker 1: to this advanced prostate cancer right.
Speaker 2: Exactly, So when you think about it was the cancer moonshot.
Speaker 2: When you go back to Biden after he lost his son,
Speaker 2: who I know you knew, and him and it was
Speaker 2: something that of course changed his whole life. And I
Speaker 2: was there when President Obama signed that bill because I
Speaker 2: had some things in there on eating disorders, of the
Speaker 2: things that we passed that we got in that bill,
Speaker 2: and also some of the work on cancer. And I
Speaker 2: remember President Biden was Vice president at the time, standing
Speaker 2: by Obama's side when he signed that bill into law.
Speaker 2: That research at NIH and the like has continued with
Speaker 2: bipartisan support for eleven years in a row, increasing research
Speaker 2: and now, as you know, a lot of the works
Speaker 2: in your state, some of it's in mind with the
Speaker 2: Mayo Clinic and the University of Minnesota, and just kind
Speaker 2: of the incredible moment we're at. We've mapped the human genome.
Speaker 2: Now we're moving into personalized medicine and the use of AI,
Speaker 2: if harnessed and put the right rules in place, is
Speaker 2: going to take our country to this level of leadership.
Speaker 2: But to do it, you need, yes, some rules in place.
Speaker 2: And when Elon Moss says that there should be some
Speaker 2: rules on an AI, maybe we should listen to them. Secondly,
Speaker 2: and Congress needs to act. Secondly, we need to keep
Speaker 2: supporting this research and the fact that these attacks on
Speaker 2: these universities, and I'm so glad they're joining forces now
Speaker 2: because that's one thing all people listen to your podcasts
Speaker 2: have got to think about when you join forces and
Speaker 2: you're not alone being attacked. It's worked better for journalists,
Speaker 2: for law firms, you name it. So that idea that
Speaker 2: we could continue this research at this moment and get
Speaker 2: continue to get in the workers that can do the research.
Speaker 2: With legal immigration reform and the like to augment the
Speaker 2: people we have heard that to me is our golden
Speaker 2: moment into a sun California sunshine thing where we can
Speaker 2: really go to this next level of our economy. And
Speaker 2: that's one of the saddest things about what's going on
Speaker 2: when I've heard in your own state and in mind
Speaker 2: about research projects that could be brought to places like Australia,
Speaker 2: because they just they don't know if they're going to
Speaker 2: have the certainty of doing them here right at this
Speaker 2: moment where this technology and know how is reaching this
Speaker 2: pinnacle where America has like kind of our next great
Speaker 2: breakthroughs with rare diseases which we never thought were possible
Speaker 2: to solve. And in my case, yes, the breast cancer
Speaker 2: that gets like they detect it. You have a simple epectomy,
Speaker 2: you've got radiation in five days, and you don't miss
Speaker 2: a vote, and you literally get back on a commercial
Speaker 2: flight or back for that vote and never miss anything.
Speaker 2: I don't say that's perfect for most people, but what
Speaker 2: I say is that these advancements has allowed our economy
Speaker 2: to function and been a leader, and we don't want
Speaker 2: to move back on that. And I know that was
Speaker 2: something President Biden cared about. I know something you're voted too.
Speaker 2: But the point is is that Trump, we still could
Speaker 2: go in the right direction, but he's got to stop
Speaker 2: this assault on the things that are literally the innovation
Speaker 2: that's key to America's economy. We want to be a
Speaker 2: country that makes up, invents things and exports to the
Speaker 2: World Center.
Speaker 1: Just in closing, do you you know and I appreciate
Speaker 1: I think this notion of an economic vision, the journey
Speaker 1: that everyone can be on together and they see, they
Speaker 1: feel seen and included in that is critical for the
Speaker 1: Democrats and our comeback, And not just as it relates
Speaker 1: to the mid terms, but even beyond, where are you
Speaker 1: on sort of the spectrum of reflecting on where our
Speaker 1: party is, where was, where we are today, and where
Speaker 1: we're going, and just sort of three or four things
Speaker 1: that you think we should be doing more of right
Speaker 1: now in order to get back where I think the
Speaker 1: American people, the majority of them, I believe, want us
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we can't be stuck in the status
Speaker 2: quo of the past. And just because Trump is going
Speaker 2: on this all out assault doesn't mean that our answer
Speaker 2: is no, we like everything the way it was. That's
Speaker 2: not where the American people are. That's not where we
Speaker 2: should be. So that's the first thing, in addition to
Speaker 2: focusing on the economic mistakes he's making and the assault
Speaker 2: on people's basically their right to pursue opportunities by making
Speaker 2: it harder and harder for them and small businesses. We
Speaker 2: have got to have our own agenda. That's first thing.
Speaker 2: The second thing is we shouldn't just go where it's comfortable.
Speaker 2: We should go where it's uncomfortable. You know, I visit
Speaker 2: all eighty seven counties in my state every single year.
Speaker 2: Just came back from a nineteen county tour in rural
Speaker 2: Minnesota and go to other parts of the country as
Speaker 2: well that are more rural. I just think listening to
Speaker 2: people because they're on the first line that's getting attacked
Speaker 2: by these tariffs and the light and making sure that
Speaker 2: we have an agenda that works for them. The third thing,
Speaker 2: bring down costs. Bring down costs, bring down costs. That's
Speaker 2: going to mean more housing and getting through some of
Speaker 2: this permitting muck, and that's part of the whole abundance.
Speaker 2: As reclient agenda childcare, there's incredible public private partnerships that
Speaker 2: we could engage in bringing down health care costs, being
Speaker 2: willing to look at that in a different way, take
Speaker 2: on these pharmaceutical prices. I've let that bail. And then
Speaker 2: just remembering that there's more that unites us that divides us,
Speaker 2: and trying through all of this muck to remember these
Speaker 2: hard working Americans. Sure saught with your firefighters and their
Speaker 2: grit and with all the people in your state, and
Speaker 2: we see it all over the country. To have that
Speaker 2: motivate us every day, and that way, you kind of
Speaker 2: make what he's doing small, because you're going to be
Speaker 2: bigger than that. And speaking of which, I have to
Speaker 2: go to our democratic lunch. I wish, I bet you
Speaker 2: wish you could take the podcast in there. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: they all have to.
Speaker 1: Say your little town hall. I love it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, people have. Well.
Speaker 1: Wish you all the luck in this remarkable moment. But
Speaker 1: I'm grateful you took these moments to share your thoughts,
Speaker 1: your wisdom, your insight, and congratulations again on getting that
Speaker 1: bill to the President's desk and sign, and thank you
Speaker 1: for all you actually all you do for all of
Speaker 1: us every single day in ways seen and unseen. Center
Speaker 1: Klob char thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2: Thanks it was great being on. Thank you thank you
Speaker 1: End then