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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People who did cool stuff.

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Speaker 2: You're a weekly reminder that actually, secretly most podcasters record

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Speaker 2: out of their closets. I am your host, Margaret Kiljoy,

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Speaker 2: and this week, not only am I in a closet,

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Speaker 2: but my guest, Chelsea Weber Smith, host of American Hysteria,

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Speaker 2: appears to be. And I don't want to make any

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Speaker 2: assumptions in a closet. Hi, how are you?

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Speaker 3: Hi, Margaret, I am in a closet, and it is

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Speaker 3: the only place in my home that isn't too echoey

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Speaker 3: to record. And yeah, I think it's important for people

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Speaker 3: to know that the glamour you think that we live in,

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Speaker 3: it's not true.

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Speaker 2: We're all in the closet, especially as you like move

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Speaker 2: up more towards professional podcasting where you have like higher

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Speaker 2: needs in terms of echoes and all of yes, uh

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Speaker 2: huh exactly.

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Speaker 3: And some people who do video are in those cool studios,

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Speaker 3: But for those of us who haven't made that demonic

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Speaker 3: jump into video content, we're stuck in the closet.

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Speaker 2: I remember when my producer not Sophie, Hi.

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Speaker 1: Sophie, Hi, okay Sophie.

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Speaker 2: When my producer Ian was like Margaret, I hate to

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Speaker 2: tell you this. You have to go back in the closet.

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Speaker 2: That's cute, that's my closet joke. But it's also true.

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Speaker 2: It's a moment that happened.

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Speaker 3: It was really hard for me not to make and

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Speaker 3: in the closet joke just now, But I really I

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Speaker 3: physically restrained my.

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Speaker 4: I also physically restrained myself because it just felt so easy.

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Speaker 1: It was too easy.

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Speaker 2: You could make these jokes. It's totally fine. No one

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Speaker 2: will be upset by them. No one is sensitive about

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Speaker 2: these things. That's what's so nice about joking around identity.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I know, nobody gets sensitive in this economy, in

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Speaker 4: this country.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, we can't afford it anymore.

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Speaker 2: I actually like, I actually agree that we can't afford

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Speaker 2: it anymore. We have to keep our eyes focused on

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Speaker 2: the people who are actually doing homophobia and not the

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Speaker 2: people who are I.

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Speaker 1: Will say that every day of my life. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, I was thinking, you are the host of American Hysteria,

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Speaker 2: which is a podcast that on some level lives up

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Speaker 2: to its name. Is that a decent way to put it?

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Speaker 1: I think?

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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what if I decided to tell you about some

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Speaker 2: British hysteria.

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Speaker 3: I would love nothing more than that, because when I

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Speaker 3: come on your show, Margaret, I have no idea what

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Speaker 3: I'm going to get, and I'm always like, I hope

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Speaker 3: I don't get something that I don't know anything about.

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Speaker 3: And so this I feel like I can maybe contribute

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Speaker 3: to it in at least a mildly meaningful way.

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Speaker 1: So this is great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I figure, if nothing else, you'll have a better

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Speaker 2: sense than I do coming into it about the way

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Speaker 2: that group hysteria. Well, in this case, it's elite panic,

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Speaker 2: I would say. But oooh, the thing that I want

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Speaker 2: to talk to you about this week, and it's fitting

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Speaker 2: that you and I are in very small spaces. I

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Speaker 2: want to talk to you about the history of Heidi holes.

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Speaker 3: Ooh, I don't know anything about this, but I am

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Speaker 3: immediately engaged and utterly yes.

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Speaker 2: So what are going to be talking about? Places that

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Speaker 2: you hide things, especially place that you hide people. And

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do this because it's come up over

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Speaker 2: and over again as I read history that people survive

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Speaker 2: some pretty gnarly stuff just by hiding or I guess

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Speaker 2: being hidden by their neighbors and things. The most famous

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Speaker 2: example of this, of course, is all of the people

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Speaker 2: who hid Jewish folks and Roma folks and queers and

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Speaker 2: leftists during the Holocaust, in the Nazi era in Europe,

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Speaker 2: And for some weird reason, I've been thinking a lot

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Speaker 2: about the kind of work that people do to prepare

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Speaker 2: to live in a fascist society, just.

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Speaker 1: Like, totally randomly, for no reason at all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally just a history interest. And I thought originally

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Speaker 2: that this week I would be mostly talking about that era,

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Speaker 2: but then I started pulling on a thread that I

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Speaker 2: knew a little bit about, and Okay, this is a

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Speaker 2: completely normal thing to do with your time. Are here

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Speaker 2: to watch the people who magnet fish? No, okay, they're

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Speaker 2: these people who get really powerful magnets and they go

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Speaker 2: in cities, especially to like canals and rivers and stuff,

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Speaker 2: and they drop these really powerful magnets off of bridges

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Speaker 2: and they pull up stuff.

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Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, that's really cool.

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Speaker 3: As someone who loves to use my metal detector, that's

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Speaker 3: just like cranking it the magnet fish.

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Speaker 2: I've never done it, yeah, but there is a thing

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Speaker 2: that often happens where people are like actually trying to

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Speaker 2: pull up something that is not pull up able by

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Speaker 2: a magnet. Okay, right, and so I had this little

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Speaker 2: tiny thread that I was going to pull on, and

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Speaker 2: it is this whole week's worth of episodes, because this

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Speaker 2: week we are going to be talking about the priest

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Speaker 2: holes of England. And that is not as dirty as.

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Speaker 3: That sounds, not as Yeah, that's immediately what I thought. Okay,

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Speaker 3: all right, I don't even have a response to that.

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Speaker 1: I just excited to find out.

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Speaker 2: That ever heard anything about the priest holes of sixteenth

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Speaker 2: century England?

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Speaker 1: No, but I'm thrilled.

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Speaker 2: So the shortest version of this is that starting in

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Speaker 2: the sixteenth century or so, Catholicism was more or less outlawed,

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Speaker 2: and when I say more or less, people were absolutely

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Speaker 2: getting burned at the stake. Yeah, and priests were being

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Speaker 2: hunted by a group of people that would make an

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Speaker 2: excellent D and D class, but as a bad actual profession,

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Speaker 2: which is priest hunter. Wow, that was a job you

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Speaker 2: could have.

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Speaker 1: That's real.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's completely real. There's another like fancy name that

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Speaker 2: they had also that I forgot to write into my

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Speaker 2: script because I didn't know how to pronounce it. It's like

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Speaker 2: a pursuant or something like that. So there's this entire

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Speaker 2: class of people who are hunting priests throughout the ands,

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Speaker 2: and they're bounty hunters and they're getting paid per priest.

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Speaker 1: Right m hm.

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Speaker 2: So people hid their priests in their houses against the

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Speaker 2: priest hunt. And one guy in particular is known for

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Speaker 2: his work building these Heidi holes. He's so known for

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Speaker 2: it that he now is known as Saint Nicholas owen oohter.

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Speaker 1: Saint Nicholas himself.

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Speaker 2: A different Saint Nicholas. But you know what, I think

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Speaker 2: we can just decide that Christmas is actually about hiding.

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Speaker 3: Well, the original Saint Nicholas. I remember there were stories

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Speaker 3: of him pickling children in his basement, but that's the

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Speaker 3: story for another time.

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Speaker 2: I know nothing about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, we did a War on Christmas episode

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Speaker 3: and I think we talk about the pickling Santa, but

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Speaker 3: I can't.

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Speaker 1: I can't be sure.

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Speaker 2: It's okay, okay, Now, this Saint Nicholas didn't become Saint

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Speaker 2: Nicholas until nineteen seventy. Okay, I am, But this Christmas

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Speaker 2: you should give the people that you love what they

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Speaker 2: really want, which is a place to hide people. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: not bodies. I want to be really clear about this. Yes,

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Speaker 2: living people, which are actually harder to hide. They have

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Speaker 2: to have like food tubes and things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and they have to be really quiet, like in

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Speaker 3: a quiet place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't have a baby. Why'd they have a

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Speaker 1: baby in that movie?

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Speaker 2: Anyway, So, as always, I quickly found out that in

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Speaker 2: order to understand priest holes, I had to understand the

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Speaker 2: persecution that the Catholics faced, and therefore the persecution that

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Speaker 2: the Protestants faced at the hands of the Catholics before that,

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Speaker 2: and just the whole thing so tall order. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: threw the magnet in and I pulled out several bicycles.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm trying to think of heavy things

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Speaker 2: that you can pull out of a river. Canon, I

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Speaker 2: pulled out a cannon.

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Speaker 1: Sweet.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite things is when I read history

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Speaker 2: where modern historians weigh in super hard on ancient rivalries

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Speaker 2: and come swinging with like transparent propaganda. And this is

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Speaker 2: absolutely one of those things. Every single I account I

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Speaker 2: read about this was either like, yeah, the priests were

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Speaker 2: kind of whining the Catholics, I mean, it wasn't whatever,

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Speaker 2: they kind of had it coming. Or they are like,

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Speaker 2: truly none have suffered as the Catholics suffered.

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Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, so it's one extreme or the other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's one of my favorite things about reading

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Speaker 2: history because I actually kind of enjoy it when it's

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Speaker 2: like really transparent.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I love it too. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of my least favorite things about reading history is

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Speaker 2: trying to keep track of various English monarchs. But this

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Speaker 2: week I'm going to do a little bit of what

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Speaker 2: I love and a little bit of what I hate.

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Speaker 2: Because this story, it's context involves telling you a little squabble,

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Speaker 2: a little tiff between two queens. You marry the first

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Speaker 2: the first ever queen regnant of England, like a queen

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Speaker 2: is actually ruling versus just married to the king. She's

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Speaker 2: marry two door. You can make jokes about three doors

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Speaker 2: down if you really try. But everyone I tried this

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Speaker 2: on ahead of time hasn't been excited about it. So

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Speaker 2: I just want you all to imagine jokes about that.

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Speaker 1: Imagine that you made one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but a good one, unlike all the ones that

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Speaker 2: I've tried. That everyone I've talked to whenever I'm doing

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Speaker 2: an episode, i'm working on a script, it's like all

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Speaker 2: EDA can talk about. I have like friends who call

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Speaker 2: me to tell me about their life problems, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: let me tell you who had problems marry two or

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Speaker 2: had problems.

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Speaker 1: I'm the same way.

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Speaker 3: I just watch people like they watch like the Simpsons

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Speaker 3: thing where it's turkey in the straw in Homer's head

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Speaker 3: in church. Yeah, that's how I feel like people are

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Speaker 3: reacting to me.

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Speaker 1: Yes the time. So it's always good to be here.

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Speaker 1: That's another history herd.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like it's also a good like test,

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Speaker 2: like can I be so excited about something to make

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Speaker 2: other people excited upout?

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Speaker 1: True? Really true? Yeah, that's the goal.

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Speaker 2: The thing about Mary Tudor that I immediately find interesting

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Speaker 2: is that she's Bloody Mary. She is the woman who

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Speaker 2: appears in the mirror if you say her name, that

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Speaker 2: I was terrified of as a child, and then wrote

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Speaker 2: a long essay about transsexuality and being the woman in

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Speaker 2: the mirror.

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Speaker 1: Oh that is so cool.

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Speaker 3: But I do have to tell you, Margaret, we just

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Speaker 3: did our Halloween special on Bloody Mary and the whole

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Speaker 3: history of the urban legend. So I very much appreciate this,

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Speaker 3: and I will say, what you're saying is just one theory.

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Speaker 1: We don't know for sure.

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Speaker 2: That was. What I can tell you is that she

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Speaker 2: was named Bloody Mary.

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Speaker 3: She was definitely named Bloody Mary. Yes, the connection between

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Speaker 3: it is more tenuous, but she is, of course bloody Mary.

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Speaker 1: She did a lot of bloody stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, although less than everyone on either side of her, honestly. Like, like,

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Speaker 2: someone wrote this polemic against her, called against monstrous regiment

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Speaker 2: because she was monstrous, because she was a woman, because

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Speaker 2: a woman was running England.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's just science.

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Speaker 2: I know, she did burn several hundred Protestants at the.

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Speaker 1: Stakes, That's what I'm thinking of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just the monarchs on either side of her did

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Speaker 2: just as much as the thing. Yes, yes, but okay, wait,

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Speaker 2: what are some of the other theories?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: I mean it has a lot to do with just

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Speaker 3: different light, because every Bloody Mary thing is different, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean we went back to like the Halloween cards

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Speaker 3: that they used to send out in early Halloween, and

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Speaker 3: the Victorian era was like it was focused on women

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Speaker 3: and girls basically trying to divine their future husband, so

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Speaker 3: they would sit in front of the mirror and chant

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Speaker 3: and then it would be like a man would appear.

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Speaker 1: So my theory was like that.

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Speaker 3: As we kind of got through second wave feminism, it

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Speaker 3: was no longer that you were looking for the husband

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Speaker 3: in the mirror, so you could talk about the different

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Speaker 3: types of like monstrous women you were looking for in

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Speaker 3: the mirror and why. But it kind of comes out

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Speaker 3: of that tradition. But then you go back and back

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Speaker 3: and the Puritans had all these divining methods for figuring

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Speaker 3: out who their husband was going to be. So it's

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Speaker 3: like a lot about the occult and girlhood and why

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Speaker 3: girls are you know, seeking the occult in these quiet indoorways,

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Speaker 3: but boys get to go out to the graveyard and

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Speaker 3: like stomp on the witch's graves and you know. So

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Speaker 3: it's I always like to take a very complicated approach obviously,

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Speaker 3: but you should listen to the episode.

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Speaker 1: I think you'd enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: No. I like that because some of the divination stuff

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Speaker 2: I know around Sawin and Halloween and Ireland is always

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Speaker 2: a like who you gonna marry?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: And I just love that it all comes down to

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Speaker 2: plane mash in the schoolyard.

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Speaker 3: That's the literal like final boss. It's like it just

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Speaker 3: trickled down urban legends.

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Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah, it's amazing.

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Speaker 2: DeCamp during the summer is when I learned about palm reading.

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Speaker 2: When I learned about all kinds of divination. You know.

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Speaker 3: Of course I was absolutely the kid holding the seances

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Speaker 3: at the sleepover that parents were wary of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, hell yeah, that was me.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So there's Mary tudor Bloody Mary, all right, and

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Speaker 2: then there's Elizabeth, her half sister, Elizabeth the first Mary

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Speaker 2: liked burning Protestants. Elizabeth liked burning Catholics. It was a

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Speaker 2: bad time to have a religion.

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Speaker 1: I suppose, Yeah, it seems like it.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to try and explain all this shit, right,

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Speaker 2: But first, do you know what needs no explanation, needs

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Speaker 2: no introduction at all?

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Speaker 1: What's that? Margaret?

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Speaker 2: The fine products and services that support this podcast is

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Speaker 2: nodding excitedly saying, yes, this is appen. We did incredible transition,

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Speaker 2: thank you, thinking, here's the beds and we're back. I

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Speaker 2: wanted everyone to have a deep breath before I talk

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Speaker 2: about something really scary. Protestants. So there's three different routes

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Speaker 2: of Protestantism. There's probably more, but we're gonna go with three.

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Speaker 2: One is the most famous. A guy named Martin Luther

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Speaker 2: nailed some ideas to a door and was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we should do a reformation. This is not actually how

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Speaker 2: it went, but I'm going to oversimplify it. Sure, this

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Speaker 2: is where almost all the major Protestant denominations get their start.

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Speaker 2: And we've talked a little bit on this show about

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Speaker 2: another route, the Bohemian Reformation, that actually happened before that,

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Speaker 2: and how some of those folks ended up in North

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Speaker 2: America actually throwing down alongside of indigenous folks and interesting ways.

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Speaker 2: And we talked about this in our Nonjlema episodes a

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Speaker 2: couple months ago. And then there's a third route to Protestantism,

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Speaker 2: the Anglican Church, and its roots are far less noble.

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Speaker 1: I know a little about them, yes, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: To be clear, when I talk about any of this,

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Speaker 2: I'm actually not trying to imply anything about modern religion.

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Speaker 2: Just the modern Anglican Church, especially the American side of

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Speaker 2: the Episcopalians, are actually like some of the nicer, more

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Speaker 2: progressive folks you're going to run across within Christianity. But

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Speaker 2: the Anglican Church, it was started, of course, famously by

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Speaker 2: Henry the eighth, maybe the most famous king of England.

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Speaker 2: He's mostly famous for beheading his wives and starting an

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Speaker 2: entire church. His dad the seventh. Imagine just being like hey, dad,

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Speaker 2: or hey the seventh. That's how I like to imagine

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Speaker 2: they talked about each other, and they were like, yes,

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Speaker 2: eight seven.

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Speaker 1: Eight nine, there's a joke in there somewhere.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, nor there's a secret spooky thing about the ninth.

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Speaker 2: There is no Well, maybe there's a Henry the ninth. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but his son is Edward the whatever. We'll get to it.

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Speaker 2: His dad, Henry the seventh, had won a whole civil war,

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Speaker 2: the War of the Roses, to become king. I don't

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Speaker 2: know anything about that. I don't want to know about

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Speaker 2: it until I have to. Henry the Eighth he becomes king,

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Speaker 2: he marries his first wife, a woman about five years

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Speaker 2: older than him named Catherine. After five miscarriages, Catherine gave

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Speaker 2: birth to a baby girl, Mary, who you might see

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Speaker 2: in the maryor we call her Mary Tudor because there's

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Speaker 2: a fucking lot of people named Mary, including a second

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Speaker 2: Mary in this story, who is going to hold a

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Speaker 2: very similar position. He wanted a son because of patriarchy,

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Speaker 2: and the two of them just didn't manage to have

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Speaker 2: a son. Now, despite winding up a famed reformer of

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Speaker 2: the church, Henry the Eighth fucking hated Protestantism and Protestants.

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Speaker 2: He wrote all these anti luther triestises. The Pope gave

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Speaker 2: him the title Defender of the Faith, but probably in

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Speaker 2: Latin because of how much he liked setting Protestants on fire.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but he.

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Speaker 2: Wanted to have his wedding to Catherine and gnuled because

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Speaker 2: she was older than him and not making sons, and

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Speaker 2: because he wanted to fuck her maid of honor as

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Speaker 2: you do. Yeah, this is the main version of this story.

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Speaker 2: So he declared the Church of England, which is basically Catholicism,

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Speaker 2: except the King of England is now the head of

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Speaker 2: the church instead of the Pope, and he kept burning

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Speaker 2: Protestants at the stake because he still hated Protestants even

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Speaker 2: though he was technically one now. He also killed a

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Speaker 2: lot of Catholics. And I've read a bunch of different

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Speaker 2: arguments about why he split from the church. Is this

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Speaker 2: a thing? Have you done?

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Speaker 1: A hysteria responancial?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I know a little bit about it. My

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Speaker 3: family is actually very British. My mom was born in England,

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Speaker 3: so I feel like I have maybe a little little

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Speaker 3: more knowledge, but not much because I haven't ever found

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Speaker 3: it to be that compelling.

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Speaker 1: For some reason.

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Speaker 2: I know I needed a way in.

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Speaker 1: You needed a push, And for me, the way in.

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Speaker 2: Was like actually realizing that they were doing real oppression

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Speaker 2: to each other. Like not to the I don't give

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Speaker 2: a shit if the king's oppressed the king, I honestly

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Speaker 2: just don't care, but like, they were absolutely oppressing people.

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Speaker 2: And so there's all of these uprisings that get painted

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Speaker 2: in history as like, well, they didn't like the other religion,

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Speaker 2: so they had an uprising. And that's as nonsensical as

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Speaker 2: people when people look at geopolitics now and are like, well,

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Speaker 2: the Palestinians, they just they have a different religion than Israel.

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Speaker 2: That's what it's about.

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Speaker 3: Like, no, it's not okay, all right, this is actually

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Speaker 3: I'm in now you've you've also pulled me in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well okay. And so the other thing about it,

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Speaker 2: so most of the versions of the story, like the

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Speaker 2: version of the story that I heard as a kid, was,

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Speaker 2: you know, this whole thing where he's like he wanted

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Speaker 2: an air and you know, it's kind of a middle

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Speaker 2: of the road approach where he was like, ah, he

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Speaker 2: was a bastard, and well whatever he was worried about bastards,

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Speaker 2: but he like wanted an air right and wanted to

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Speaker 2: sleep with more women, except he could have slept with

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Speaker 2: anyone he wants. He's literally the king.

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Speaker 1: He didn't need to create a whole religion about it, really,

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Speaker 1: but yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, although actually there's a weird thing where his next wife,

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Speaker 2: he actually was like trying to be like, yeah, what's up.

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Speaker 2: We have the letters where he's like, yeah, what's up,

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Speaker 2: and she's like not until we're married, and he's like,

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Speaker 2: all right, I'm working on it. I'm trying to anowl.

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Speaker 3: It literally are like rearranging the history of the world

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Speaker 3: right now for you, babe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Romantic Yeah, and then he's gonna chop her head off,

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Speaker 2: but we'll get to that. So the most sympathetic to

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Speaker 2: Henry the eighth version, which is I have no expectation

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Speaker 2: that this is the real reason. But the most sympathetic

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Speaker 2: accounts claimed that he did it because his marriage to

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Speaker 2: Catherine wasn't actually holy, because the Bible says that you

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Speaker 2: can't marry your brother's widow.

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Speaker 1: It does say that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Margaret, can I tell you that I've been reading

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Speaker 3: the Bible from what I'm doing start to finish, and

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Speaker 3: I did get through those rules recently, so I can confirm, yes.

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Speaker 4: Okay, what brought on this book club for yourself?

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Speaker 1: I love biblical history.

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Speaker 3: I really do like just understanding the context of like

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Speaker 3: the document that, though I find to be completely outrageous

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Speaker 3: and insane, is the basis of most of the culture

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Speaker 3: that we know. So I was like, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna just do it. I've always wanted to. But

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Speaker 3: it's I'm about fifteen percent done and I've been at

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Speaker 3: it for like a month and a half.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: There's like a handful of texts that have impacted society

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Speaker 4: and inn you can't even count level. And it's like,

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Speaker 4: you know, yeah the Bible, Lolita, like that's happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, both have similar moral stances, are a lot

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Speaker 2: of issues actually those two books.

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Speaker 1: I fear you are correct so far.

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Speaker 3: One of my favorite Biblical things is that you can't

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Speaker 3: eat bats. I don't know why I found that to

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Speaker 3: be so amusing, but I really want to name something

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Speaker 3: the Bible says you can't eat bats. Maybe a Halloween album? Sure, thanks, Sophie, Sure, sure,

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Speaker 3: whatever you want.

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Speaker 1: All right, cut it.

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Speaker 2: I actually share your interest in this. I haven't done

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Speaker 2: it yet. I haven't sat down to read the Bible yet. Instead,

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Speaker 2: I like spend way too much time reading like biblical

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Speaker 2: scholars talking about what they were and weren't trying to say,

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Speaker 2: and not necessarily from a theological position, but like a

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Speaker 2: like this is a list of societal ideas from where

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Speaker 2: a lot of our society comes from, like what people

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Speaker 2: thought about two thousand years ago. And it's funny too,

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Speaker 2: right because like modern right wing people get everything wrong.

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Speaker 2: Not because the Bible is left wing, it's not at all.

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Speaker 1: It's not.

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Speaker 2: Although it's pretty pro be nice to neighbors and foreigners.

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Speaker 2: That's actually it's pretty consistent on that.

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Speaker 1: That's very true.

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Speaker 3: Even the Old Testament is like it just is always

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Speaker 3: like be nice to foreigners. I've been like, damn, this

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Speaker 3: feels pretty uh, pretty basic stuff here.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, they like they missed that one. They instead

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Speaker 2: like nitpick the really weird specific things. But it's just

434
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Speaker 2: funny because it's like, you know, the whole like man

435
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Speaker 2: shall not lie with man, is he does with women

436
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 2: is an abomination. Thing. I can't remember I said this

437
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Speaker 2: last week or not, or I was just a conversation

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Speaker 2: I had because I'm really good at entertaining my friends

439
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 2: and everyone likes me, is that it has nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with homosexuality, because that didn't really exist as a concept,

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00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 2: and instead it's about like, no, you can't degrade a man.

442
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 1: Sure, it's really the way that you degrade women. Yeah, yeah,

443
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: aye buy that.

444
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 3: It's a really passing moment so far that I had

445
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 3: gotten to in the Bible about it. It's not not

446
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 3: a huge deal because they're killing people who are working

447
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 3: on the Sabbath. And baby, a lot of you are

448
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 3: working on the Sabbath.

449
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, working on the Sabbath eating bats.

450
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 1: Yep, I know.

451
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I wonder if that's why Ozzy Osborne

452
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,879
Speaker 2: did it? Oh wait, was it Alice Cooper one of

453
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 2: the like Chakras Bozzie?

454
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: Oh he's going to hell now he ate that path.

455
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:55,199
Speaker 2: Oh no, So most people are pretty sure Henry the

456
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 2: Eighth wasn't specifically trying to get his marriage and all

457
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,120
Speaker 2: because he was afraid of it being on the whole

458
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,719
Speaker 2: that he had married his brother's widow, but instead was

459
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 2: trying to get out of the marriage and that was

460
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 2: the best option that he thought he had. And yeah,

461
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 2: most of what I've read and what I learned in

462
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 2: school was a Henry the eighth wanted a son, and

463
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 2: he wanted to fox someone younger, like his wife's maid.

464
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 2: But the argument I'm running across that I find the

465
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 2: most convincing and is what kind of hooked me in,

466
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 2: is that he looked around, he saw how rich the

467
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 2: church was and was like, oh, what if I just

468
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 2: like took all their shit, Like what if I just

469
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 2: robbed the church of everything? Because everything that's just about

470
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 2: religion quote unquote is also about property, always in forever.

471
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.

472
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 2: The Catholic Church was a major landowner and landlord in England.

473
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 2: This keeps coming up, by the way, whenever there's like

474
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 2: peasant uprisings that are about religion. The peasants don't care

475
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 2: about transubstantiation. They care about whether there's actual food in them. Yeah, right,

476
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: but you know they'll put things in the drapings of

477
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 2: whatever makes the most well.

478
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's a lot of like propaganda, culture war

479
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,239
Speaker 3: stuff even then to kind of make it, you know,

480
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 3: make people riled up about things like that, and oh yeah,

481
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 3: so distract them from Yeah.

482
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 2: But the Catholic Church was a major landowner and landlord

483
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 2: in England. They owned about a fourth of the rented

484
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: land as far as I understand, or maybe it was

485
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 2: a fourth of the rented estates. And it's probably a

486
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 2: bad thing that the Church was like this major landowner, right.

487
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 2: I've always run across it as bad, and that makes

488
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 2: sense to me. Landlord's not my favorite thing, but it's

489
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: the way it was. And the Anglican Reformation confiscated all

490
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 2: the church's property and suddenly they enclosed the shit out

491
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: of the Commons, enemy of the pod Enclosure of the

492
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: Commons is what all of this stuff comes down to.

493
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 2: They're like, how do we make the rich richer and

494
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 2: fuck over the poor? And one of the ways is

495
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 2: to steal everything from the church because the Church liked

496
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 2: being richer than the people, right, And they had a

497
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 2: lot of internal fights about that, but overall they're pretty

498
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 2: into that. But they didn't do it as egregiously. And

499
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 2: so the Anglican Reformation enclosed the Commons and tens of

500
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 2: thousands of people are evicted from their homes. Plus, of

501
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: course you have nine hundred religious houses of various kinds,

502
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 2: like a friaries, which is totally a word I knew

503
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: before this. I absolutely totally knew that definitely, Like the

504
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 2: nunneries and the friaries are all shut down. One in

505
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 2: about fifty adult men were directly part of the church

506
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: in some order or another in this era, and so

507
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: this is very disruptive and unpopular the Anglican Reformation as

508
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: compared to the other reformations. As far as I understand,

509
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 2: I haven't really done anything about Martin Luther. Yet it

510
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 2: was top down, it was imposed on people. So in

511
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 2: fifteen thirty six, when twenty thousand peasants took up arms

512
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: to say, hey, we're actually allowed to be Catholic, they

513
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 2: were also trying to say, hey, by stealing all the

514
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: church's property and kicking us out and closing the commons,

515
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: you're fucking us and we don't want that.

516
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: Is it true?

517
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 3: Like the way that Catholicism is today where there is

518
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 3: like an idea that you need to do good works

519
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 3: and help the poor, like that is actually part of Catholicism.

520
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 3: Where is it not as much Protestantism? Do you think

521
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 3: that was part of it too? Is like by taking

522
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 3: money away from the church, who were taking away like

523
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 3: alms from people and things like that.

524
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suspect that's heavily part of it, because there

525
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: is like a it's like a thing that actually came up.

526
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: I recently did a bunch of stuff about ancient Greece,

527
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: and one thing a historian talked about was that beggars

528
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 2: in ancient Greece actually had it worse than the Christian

529
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 2: and especially the Catholic era of medieval Europe, because giving

530
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 2: alms is good for your soul in the Catholic tradition.

531
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 2: And yeah, so it's like again and not trying to

532
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 2: be like the Catholic Church was good and noble, but

533
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 2: it had people within it who are trying to be

534
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: good and noble. I'm fine as compared to the.

535
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: King, yeah, iypoth sis, Yeah.

536
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. The leaders of that rising, the Lincolnshire Rising, were

537
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 2: all executed. This is under Henry the eighth. So they

538
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: tried to do it non violently stead and they got

539
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 2: twice the numbers, forty thousand peasants and priests and monks

540
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: demanding that they can be Catholic and also not starved

541
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: to death or whatever. This is called the pilgrimage of Grace.

542
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 2: And of course his history has shown us. Of course

543
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 2: they were listened to because they were nonviolent and all

544
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 2: of their no, wait, no, wait, I got that wrong.

545
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 2: Oh no, it was disbanded and all the leaders were executed.

546
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, that's smart.

547
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 2: Probably pretty horribly Yeah. And then there was Bigods Rebellion,

548
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: which sort of looks like Big God, which I think

549
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: is cool. And this is in fifteen thirty seven. This

550
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 2: led to two hundred executions, and so people didn't take

551
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 2: it lying down that they were suddenly told that they

552
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 2: had to be a new religion. But people in power

553
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: are willing to kill over property in law every time,

554
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: still do so. Henry the Eighth, he's created the Church

555
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: of England and stolen all the churches money that they

556
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 2: stole from the working people. And then he's killed all

557
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 2: the working people who are mad about it, and he's

558
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: annulled his marriage to Catholic. She remains Catholic and faithful, though,

559
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: so she doesn't believe in the annulment, and until she

560
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: dies at fifty of probably cancer, she holds that she's

561
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: the rightful Queen of England. And if you want to

562
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: be the Queen of England.

563
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 4: I would be really great at that job.

564
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: That's actually true. I would be.

565
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: Really great at that job. I would be so helpful

566
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: and really see it.

567
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 4: The first thing I would do is say, there's no

568
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 4: longer any Queens of England.

569
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: Nail that high. I thank you so much.

570
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 4: This position is no longer need.

571
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm keeping this scepter, but just purely just so

572
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: I have something to tell me.

573
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 4: Also, any countries that in the UK we don't own

574
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 4: you anymore, yeah, have an oprah.

575
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 3: And you get exactly here's all the art we stole.

576
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: I'm just saying so.

577
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: And Queen Sophie for queen, you know what, I will

578
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: vote for you or actually the thing I've learned about

579
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: how to try and make Queens of England and this

580
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: time is assassinate a lot of people and blow people

581
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: up and whatever is necessary, but mostly listening to ads.

582
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: And we're back. So Henry the eighth he marries Anne Boleyn, next,

583
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: the maid of Honor that he was trying to fucking

584
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: for like seven years. He's like writing her letters being like, yeah,

585
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 2: what's up, and she has a ton of miscarriages and

586
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: then eventually gives the king a daughter, Elizabeth. The first

587
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 2: historians have like written a lot about like what might

588
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: have been going on about There's like some specific medical

589
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: conditions that you can have that are going to lead

590
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: to some of his health problems that he had and

591
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: also like lead to difficult berths for the people that

592
00:28:53,400 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: you are sleeping with. So it was his hault quite possibly, Yeah,

593
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: not known for certain, but a lot of people. The

594
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: most annoying thing is if you try to read about

595
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: Henry the eighth, I'm trying to find things like why

596
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 2: did this man hate women so much? And instead I

597
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: find thing after thing talking about the fact that he's fat.

598
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: Wow.

599
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: Great, And there's so many pictures of his armor that

600
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: are like and this is his waist size, And I'm like, man,

601
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: I actually think you should lead with a number of wives.

602
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: He'd beheaded. I actually think that's a more important fact.

603
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: Maybe that's more important.

604
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 3: You know. The turkey leg is a myth that he like,

605
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 3: you know, you see him like with that giant turkey

606
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: leg and pop culture, Yeah, there's never like an image

607
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 3: of him with a giant turkey leg. That's like a

608
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 3: really old Mandela effect.

609
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: That makes sense, And it probably was a like check

610
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: out this fat guy. That's what I'm like, that's not

611
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: what's wrong with this man.

612
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: No, it's like, have you seen how many turkey legs?

613
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: This dude can house.

614
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like more concerned about the wives he goes

615
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: through y and the forcing everyone to change religions.

616
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

617
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: And so they have a daughter, Elizabeth the first, And

618
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, historians argue about why Henry the eighth

619
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: was like, I have an idea, dear wife of mine,

620
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: sixteen months into their marriage, what if I frame you

621
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: up on adultery and incest charges and then claimed you

622
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: fucked your brother and then cut your head off.

623
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: Okay, and he was king, So he did that, Okay, great.

624
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: Maybe it was because she didn't give him a son.

625
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: Maybe it was because and again, she only wanted to

626
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: close some of the monasteries, and more specifically, she wanted

627
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: to use the loot that they were stealing from the

628
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: Catholic Church for charity.

629
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: Ooh, he's not going to buy that. Yeah no, no, wow.

630
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: And this guy Thomas Cromwell, who's the grandfather of the

631
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: guy who's going to genocide Ireland. Who's more famous Oliver Cromwell.

632
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: That's not what Cromwell's famous for, but it should be.

633
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: So I'm going to lead with that. Thomas Cromwell is

634
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: the Secretary of State and he kind of arranged the

635
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: whole execution thing. Later though, cancel culture is going to

636
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: come for him too. In a couple of years, he's

637
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: going to get arrested and beheaded also, Okay, After killing

638
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: his second wife, Henry the Eighth married another woman who

639
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 2: had a son and then died because of that birth.

640
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: Then he married a fifth woman who he accused of

641
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: cheating and had beheaded, and then he married a sixth

642
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: and final wife. Fuck Henry the eighth. That's a speed

643
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: run through Henry the Eighth. Yeah, but his two daughters

644
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: are important characters, and they're presented as polar opposites. But

645
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 2: the main thing I know about them is that they

646
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: liked burning heretics at the stake.

647
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: Hey, girls have to pond over something.

648
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: That's true, right, and they just disagreed about who counted

649
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: as heretics. And then you can really easily see whether

650
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: you're reading a like pro Protestant or pro Catholic thing,

651
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: because if you're reading a pro Protestant thing, it's like, well,

652
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: Elizabeth didn't want to burn the Catholics, but they forced

653
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: her to, And the Catholic ones about Mary are literally

654
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 2: the same. They're just like, but it wasn't really about heresy.

655
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: It was about holding onto political power. They were trying

656
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: to overthrow the government. Oh god, okay, But first before

657
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: either of them can get around to burning people and

658
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: being in charge, Henry the Eighth has to die, and

659
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: he dies of being alive in the medieval era. He's

660
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: like fifty or fifty five or something. I don't know.

661
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: Everyone's like that's cause of whatever. Anyway, I'm just really

662
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: mad at the fat phobia history.

663
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of waste to die in the

664
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: fifteen hundreds.

665
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, his son's going to die at sixteen, all right, Like,

666
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: I don't think that he had an extra turkey leg

667
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: at dinner is the problem here, I don't think. So,

668
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: I'm just going to go with this turkey leg thing now.

669
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: I've decided to believe in it. I'm a believer in

670
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: a conspiracy that is trying to get people to stop

671
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: believing in Henry the Eighth and turkey legs.

672
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: It's an epidemic.

673
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Henry the Eighth dies, and his son, who's nine

674
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 2: years old, is deemed to be a better heir than

675
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: either sister, which you know.

676
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: Obviously not surprised.

677
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: So Edward the sixth becomes king for all of six years.

678
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: He didn't want the kingdom to go Atholic, so he

679
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: named his sixteen year old cousin, Lady Jane Gray, to

680
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: be his heir, and he made the country way more Protestant.

681
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: Priests could fuck. Services had to be in English. And

682
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: there's a whole rebellion about it, the Prayer Book Rebellion

683
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: of fifteen forty nine. So the crown looked at a

684
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: rebellion of their own people and said, I know, let's

685
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: hire foreign mercenaries to kill them all.

686
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

687
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: And at least two thousand of the rebels were killed

688
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: right off in the fighting, and thousands more were killed

689
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: after they surrendered. Then our teenage king went ahead and

690
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: got sick and died when he was fifteen years old,

691
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: probably a friend of the pod tuberculosis.

692
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

693
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 3: I can't believe how many like teen kings there were.

694
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 3: I think the stress of that, I just can't imagine

695
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: how a teenager can handle it. But I guess I

696
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 3: don't know. Kids back then were like thirty basically.

697
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: That's true. Fifteen, you know, you're like, all right, well

698
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: I did pretty good, you know, I made it to fifteen,

699
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: had a good run. It was a king for six years,

700
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: they did have a I think it's called protectorates where

701
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 2: there was like people.

702
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: In charge of guiding them.

703
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and kind of like like an underage king. I

704
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: think I actually don't know what age this is. I

705
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 2: think it's different every time, but I'm not sure an

706
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: underage king is like half in charge.

707
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 3: Every child king needs a dick Cheney exactly.

708
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: He's dead.

709
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: Do you think that's what Jade Vance thought he was

710
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: going to do. Do you think he thought he was

711
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 2: going to be the power behind the throne.

712
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: I do think that, I really really think that.

713
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: What a fool.

714
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I wonder how long his heart will last.

715
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: Well, I do know that when the heart of whatever

716
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 2: that kid's name is, I just saideen King Edward the sixth. Yeah,

717
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,479
Speaker 2: I do know that. When he died, Lady Jane Gray

718
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: was handed the kingdom on July tenth, fifteen fifty three,

719
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: because he'd been like, oh no, my cousin, she's the heir.

720
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 2: Mary though, was clearly the people's choice, and so she

721
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 2: gathered up supporters and marched on London and then everyone

722
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: was like, including Lady Jane Gray, was like, you're right,

723
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: you should be in charge, Okay, I see the persuasiveness

724
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 2: of your argument. It has spears.

725
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 1: Uh huh.

726
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 2: The group of senior advisors to the Throne the Privy

727
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: Council looked at the crowd and we're like, yeah, Mary's queen.

728
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: I guess. Lady Jane Gray was queen for nine days,

729
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: so in some ways she's the first queen regnant, and

730
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 2: then there's like another one from like eleven hundred. It

731
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 2: was like, in general, Mary's the first one who counts.

732
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 3: I guess she popularized it. That's what I say in

733
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 3: American hysteria. It's like it happened before, but really it

734
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, but now it matters. So popularized.

735
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 2: Mary popularized being queen regnant, and wasn't the popularization of

736
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: Burnie heretics at the stake. She got that from her dad,

737
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: who probably got from everyone for hundreds of years. Because actually,

738
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: one of the things that's interesting is that being a

739
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 2: heretic wasn't necessarily a religious crime. It was a civil crime, right.

740
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: It was like being disorderly. It was like only as

741
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: a felony in a capital offense, but it was like

742
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 2: up there with being a murderer. You're like, you're fucking

743
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: up society. You know, it's treasonous to be a heredic.

744
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 2: It's not just a religious problem from this point of.

745
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 3: View, right, because they were just like politics and religion

746
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: were just completely married at that point.

747
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, and there was no annulment available, even

748
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: though they shouldn't have fucked anyway. So you have Mary,

749
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 2: the first Mary tudor Bloody Mary. She got her name

750
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: because of the two hundred and forty Ish Protestants she murdered,

751
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: burning them at the stake for questioning the Catholic Church,

752
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: which is a lot of people, for ruling for only

753
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 2: five years. And the Catholic apology around this is usually like, well,

754
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: she shouldn't have done it, sorry about that, but she

755
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 2: used proper legal procedures.

756
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: Oh good, Okay, Yeah, she followed the law.

757
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, she didn't risk putting the country into a lawless state.

758
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: Wow.

759
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 2: And according to that same apologia, she actually wanted to

760
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: do religious freedom, but the Protestants forced her hand.

761
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: Okay.

762
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: There was a whole Protestant uprising that tried to overthrow her,

763
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: called Wyatt's Rebellion in fifteen fifty four. Wyatt got himself executed.

764
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 2: And yeah, she brings back heresy as a capital crime,

765
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: and you have the Maryan Persecutions, which is kind of

766
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: cool name from fifteen fifty five till fifteen fifty eight.

767
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 2: Then she died of cancer.

768
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: It's so weird that cancer existed.

769
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: I know, like I know it did, like obviously, it

770
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 3: just seems so anachronistic.

771
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: I know, it feels very modern and it's like how

772
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: do we know that? We only kind of know it.

773
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: But some of it is like autopsies and tumors and

774
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: things like that, right, Okay, And in this case, Mary's

775
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: was kind of tragic. She like she thought she was

776
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: pregnant and she'd been trying to get pregnant for a

777
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 2: really long time. It was a tumor.

778
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: Okay, well that doesn't make sense how they figured it

779
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 1: out then.

780
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so people are like, she died of false pregnancy.

781
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: Is like the way it gets written about at the time.

782
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: That is sad, That's true.

783
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, She's kind of an interesting tragic figure. Fuck a queen,

784
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 2: and she sure murdered people. She's like an interesting especially

785
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 2: once you read about people like writing like, you know,

786
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 2: the people she's putting at the stake are like writing

787
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: things like, you know, the monstrous regiment of women or whatever.

788
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: Sure.

789
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 2: So she dies of cancer. So her sister, the Protestant

790
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 2: Elizabeth the First, became queen and at no point where

791
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: people like, maybe this isn't a good system of government,

792
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 2: although it be fair. I guess Grumwell did, and they

793
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 2: had a whole war about it.

794
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and probably people did that are now lost to history.

795
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Elizabeth the First kept the heresy laws

796
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 2: but turned them on their heads. It was illegal to

797
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 2: be Catholic. You were allowed to repent, but you know,

798
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: people in their religions dying because you refuse to give

799
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: up your faith as like a whole vibe and the

800
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 2: whole that respected thing. There's a word martyr. Within ten

801
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: days of taking the throne, she's declared herself head of

802
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: the church and starts seizing more Catholic assets. All the

803
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 2: bishops that refuse to convert, which was all of them

804
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 2: but one, were locked up, as this part's interesting. Originally

805
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 2: they're thrown in jails, but then they were locked up

806
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 2: in the houses of the new bishops. Oh and so

807
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: they're like, all right, your captor is the guy who

808
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 2: took your job.

809
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: WHOA that's dark.

810
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the thing I read about it was like

811
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 2: you know, probably better conditions and way way more degrading.

812
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard for me to actually picture and imagine

813
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 3: what that situation was like. Is it just like you're

814
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 3: in the basement, you're like locked and.

815
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 2: So I think that a lot of old manor houses

816
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 2: and stuff had jails.

817
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: Had a little jail. Yeah, that does feel true.

818
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: And I can't remember where I ran across that. It's

819
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: been a while, but I remember reading about how like

820
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: before sort of the centralization a lot of like you know,

821
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: prison systems, it was just kind of like, all right,

822
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: well we just locked this guy up.

823
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: That makes sense, Yeah, which.

824
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: I think all the time about this web comic I

825
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: read a while ago that's like complaining about the prison system,

826
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 2: and it's like if I caught someone in my driveway

827
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: trying to steal my car and so I just like

828
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 2: kept him in my basement for seven years, people would

829
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: think I'm a bad person.

830
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: Interesting.

831
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to be thinking about that now too. Yeah, yep,

832
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 3: because they acted within the law, right, we're.

833
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: Talking about that. It's like if you do it in prisons,

834
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: it's okay because it's part of the law.

835
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the attitude people have and still have

836
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 2: about all of this. Oh yeah, you know, we're like, oh,

837
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: a good thing, we got rid of slavery. And you're like, well,

838
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: just don't read that amendment too closely where it specifically

839
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 2: says accepting cases of you know, punishment for crimes.

840
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

841
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: So, just like her sister before her, Elizabeth had an excuse,

842
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 2: although her main excuse that people use came after she

843
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 2: started criminalizing Catholicism. But there was the Rising of the North,

844
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 2: which is a good name, when the Catholics from northern

845
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: England tried to overthrow Elizabeth and replace her with the

846
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: second Mary of our episode, Mary Queen of Scots, who

847
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 2: was the Queen of the Scots. So at least seven

848
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: hundred people were executed for that little uprising thing, and

849
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 2: Mary spent the rest of her life in prison, although

850
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: actually she might have been arrested for a different whatever. Anyway,

851
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 2: she's in prison. Uprising didn't work.

852
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: Stuff's complicated, yeah.

853
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And priests were being hunted down and executed. Most

854
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: of the clergy in the country went into hiding her exile,

855
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: especially to Ireland, and then a lot of folks went

856
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 2: over to northern France, I believe, but brave priests would

857
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: smuggle themselves into England to give mass and preach because

858
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 2: three quarters of the population were like thirty years into

859
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: the Anglican Reformation, three quarters of the population is still

860
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: firmly Catholic.

861
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

862
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 3: Well, it's hard to even get your religion out, you know.

863
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 3: It's like, I guess you have the printing well, printing press.

864
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: Not yet.

865
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,839
Speaker 2: I believe they're printing things in there. Oh lord, when

866
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 2: is I can't time. I know that some of the

867
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 2: people in this story at the end of the sixteenth

868
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 2: century are going to be printing things, and I can't

869
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 2: remember it's the end of the fifteenth or und of

870
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: the sixteenth.

871
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 3: It's a new thing, and spreading things takes a long time.

872
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: So it makes sense that people haven't even gotten the memo,

873
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 3: let alone want to convert based on what totally wants.

874
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

875
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just like, well, we're not allowed to do

876
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 2: that anymore. We're like, bo, why, yeah, what? And I

877
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: just imagine being like but it's all kind of nonsense.

878
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 2: It's just this is the comforting nonsense I grew up with.

879
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 2: Why would this be a problem. I guess that's not

880
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 2: how they viewed it. No, I just don't have it

881
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 2: quite the modern cultural version of it, and theoretically Ireland

882
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 2: was under the rule of the English crown at this point.

883
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,240
Speaker 2: But emphasis on the word theoretically. The Anglican Reformation, however,

884
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 2: did become a major part of the colonization of Ireland.

885
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 2: The rule of law everywhere that the crown ruled, which

886
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 2: included all of Ireland, was you have to be Protestant now.

887
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: But this was essentially unenforceable because what it was called

888
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 2: at the time the wild Irish another good name. Yeah.

889
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 2: What it did work and why it was such a

890
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: part of colonization is it worked to steal a ton

891
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 2: of Irish land and shit from the Church, which was

892
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: then put into private English hands. And it ties deeply

893
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: into how one of the main ways that Ireland is

894
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 2: colonizes economically by making English a landlord class over the island. Okay,

895
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: and then the other fun rabbit hole about this. Have

896
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: you thought about the whole like beyond the Pale and

897
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: the origins of that before?

898
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: No?

899
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: Okay, so I have made incorrect claims about this before

900
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 2: on this podcast.

901
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: I believe, uh oh.

902
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 2: Because the place that Protestant was successfully enforced was called

903
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: the Pale or the Pale of Ireland or the Pale

904
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 2: of Dublin, which was the most Anglicized part of Ireland,

905
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 2: which was basically the area around Dublin. And I used

906
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 2: to think that beyond the Pale was a reference to

907
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 2: the Pale of Settlement, which is a part of the

908
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 2: Russian that Jews were allowed to live in. But then

909
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 2: I read about the Irish Pale and was like, oh,

910
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 2: it's that area because it's hundreds of years earlier and

911
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 2: it's closer to England, right, But it's actually not either

912
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 2: of those. Instead, they come from the same route. Pale

913
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 2: sort of means a picket, like a fencing board, and

914
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: so the pale means the fenced in area. It's the

915
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: same route as palisade or impale.

916
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, wow, well there you go.

917
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got really excited about that. Also to correct

918
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: my past self.

919
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: Hey, we love to do it.

920
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, the English robbed Ireland but failed to

921
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,479
Speaker 2: convert it. But in England it was really bad news

922
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: to be a Catholic, which was more than three fourths

923
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 2: of the population. It was illegal to not go to

924
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 2: the Protestant Mass on Sunday, so you also couldn't just

925
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,479
Speaker 2: be like an atheist or whatever. Right, well, you probably

926
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 2: weren't allowed to do that anyway.

927
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: You wouldn't have even thought to do it.

928
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And these law they're called the penal laws.

929
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 2: They got more and more restrictive during the end of

930
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 2: the fifteen hundreds, especially once in fifteen seventy or fifteen

931
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 2: seventy one. I have read both in the same source.

932
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 2: The Pope excommunicated Queen Elizabeth. So basically like, all right,

933
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: excommunicate me, I'm excommunicate you. And so it became illegal

934
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 2: to publish anything that the Pope wrote. It was illegal

935
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 2: to import or distribute Catholic material like crosses or rosaries.

936
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 2: It was illegal to be a priest. It was illegal

937
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 2: to harbor a priest. It was illegal to convert someone

938
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: to Catholicism. Most of these are killing crimes. Catholic priests

939
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 2: started training overseas to go on stealth missions to England,

940
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 2: especially from the newly formed Jesuit Order. By fifteen eighty

941
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: they started returning to England and were like, all right,

942
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 2: we have some priests now. And when I say some,

943
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 2: it really is some. It's like a couple hundred in

944
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 2: the whole country. Because there's a whole group of people

945
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 2: called the priest Hunters, who are generally private individuals working

946
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: as bounty hunters and they're permitted to search houses up

947
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 2: and down and rest and torture priests. They would read

948
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 2: people's mail, they maintained spy networks. They would pay informants,

949
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 2: like you snitch on someone for being a papist, get

950
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 2: some money. The priest hunters would go under cover and

951
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: pretend to be Catholic and arrest people who are like, ah, yes,

952
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: I too am Catholic. They'd be like haha, I got.

953
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: You, okay, wild Yeah.

954
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: I know. It's one of these things that sounds made up.

955
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: Yeah it does.

956
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 4: Priest Hunters sounds like a movie that would come out

957
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 4: in January.

958
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: Which is funny because like the witch Hunter thing, witch

959
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 2: Hunters also existed, but like this was bigger. This was bigger, huh,

960
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: at least in England. Although actually James is going to

961
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: be doing a lot of both the hating on Catholics

962
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,439
Speaker 2: and witches real soon and writing a Bible.

963
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 3: And it would make sense that that was more pervasive

964
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 3: because punishing witches doesn't get you the same benefits of

965
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: like seizing things right and like taking their I don't know.

966
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 3: I think it makes sense that priests were more of

967
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 3: a threat even though they weren't like the demonic threat.

968
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 3: And well I guess they probably thought they were.

969
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well they dropped more loot. Definitely, that's true. Absolutely,

970
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: And you've got famous torturers like Richard Topcliff, who is

971
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 2: again if only there were a show about bad people.

972
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 2: He is famous for sexual assault and for building a

973
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 2: torture dungeon in his own house with the queen's permission. Okay,

974
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: also possibly groped the queen and got away with it.

975
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: Wow, is there just a source that says, like, how

976
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: do they know that?

977
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 2: One of the things I read was like many people

978
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 2: claimed he groped the queen when it's talking about how

979
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 2: he like assaulted people like all the time. And then

980
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 2: that one was sourced, but it was to a book

981
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 2: that I don't have. Okay, that's fine, that's as far

982
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 2: as I was, like, this rabbit hole has stopped, now.

983
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 1: We need to do this. Yeah.

984
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so he is one of the most scoundrelly scoundrels,

985
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,959
Speaker 2: devere scoundrel he also I read an academic paper about

986
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 2: him about how he voraciously read every book that he

987
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: confiscated about Catholicism and saw himself as like a professional

988
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 2: reader to better understand his enemies, and he took a

989
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 2: ton of notes in the margin. So he was the

990
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: one who would like, He's like, ah, I killed these

991
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: people and tortured them, and I found their books, and

992
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 2: here's some notes about what they say in their books

993
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 2: for everyone to read. So he's like doing the cliff

994
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 2: notes of them for people.

995
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So the.

996
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: Priests were like, man, I don't like any of that

997
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: stuff happening to me, but I kind of feel like

998
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: I should still do this thing that I believe in.

999
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 2: So I guess they need to hide. They traveled around

1000
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: the country, and before the heat was really turned up

1001
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 2: and the priest hunting got intense, they would just like

1002
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: show up and if someone came looking, they'd be like,

1003
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 2: oh no, we're just like visiting relatives. We're just like

1004
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,479
Speaker 2: that's just my uncle, you know, or whatever. But soon

1005
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 2: enough that wasn't enough, and they would travel around under

1006
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 2: a variety of disguises. They'd be like, oh, I'm just

1007
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 2: a traveling tutor or whatever, and they would hide if

1008
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 2: they had to, and what are called priest holes hidden

1009
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: compartments and houses all across the entry for hiding persecuted people.

1010
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: These had to be meticulously built because the priest hunters

1011
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: were meticulous. The priest hunters would measure the inside and

1012
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 2: outside of houses and rooms, looking for discrepancies. They would

1013
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 2: count the windows outside the house and make sure they

1014
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 2: knew where each one was inside. They would walk around

1015
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 2: sticking swords between floorboards and wall panels to see if

1016
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 2: anyone would scream or bleed. They would search a house

1017
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 2: and then pretend to leave to see if anyone emerged

1018
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 2: from hiding.

1019
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: Sex, serial killor shit.

1020
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 2: It really is And I honestly like, I'm just like,

1021
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,919
Speaker 2: I don't know to take notes everyone, if you think

1022
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 2: it about possible futures.

1023
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: These are the ways that they mightn't find you out.

1024
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so people built really good priest holes, people like

1025
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: Saint Nicholas Owen, who will talk about on Wednesday. Then

1026
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 2: then dumb, very.

1027
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: Cool, Okay, anything you want to plug?

1028
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,959
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, yeah, I love this. This has been

1029
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 3: really interesting and I cannot wait to see where it goes.

1030
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 3: So thank you both. And yeah, you can just find

1031
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 3: American Hysteria wherever you get your podcasts.

1032
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: As they say, Wow.

1033
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 2: It's going to tie into another modern kind of hysteria

1034
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 2: thing because Guy Fox is going to make your parents

1035
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 2: guy big gunpowder plot.

1036
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, I love to see him. All right.

1037
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 2: Well, check out American Hysteria and check us out on Wednesday,

1038
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 2: and check out Cooler Zone Media. It's the same, only

1039
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 2: you don't have to listen to ads.

1040
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 4: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1041
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 4: cool Zone Media. The more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1042
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 4: visit our website Goolzonemedia dot com or check us out

1043
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 4: on the five or radio app podcasts, or wherever you

1044
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 4: get your podcasts.