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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey thereon Welcome Back, You found The Book of Joe

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Speaker 1: a podcast. This is Tom Ferducci and Joe Madden. Joe,

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Speaker 1: There's a lot going on in the world of baseball,

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Speaker 1: So I am going to give you a choice of.

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Speaker 2: Where we start. Today.

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Speaker 1: We have Hall of Fame voting and we have the

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles Dodgers putting together a Hall of Fame team

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Speaker 1: team loadly with future Hall of Famers.

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Speaker 2: Where would you like to begin?

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Speaker 3: The flavor of the day would be the Hall of

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Speaker 3: Fame voting and the Hall of Famers. I think that

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Speaker 3: goes number one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you.

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Speaker 1: It was a really good class three got over the

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Speaker 1: threshold of seventy five percent, starting with Ichiro Suzuki, who

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Speaker 1: had all.

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Speaker 2: But one vote from the writers on the ballot.

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Speaker 1: CC Sabbathia first ballot Hall of Famer and Billy Wagner

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Speaker 1: last ballot Hall of Famer. Let's get this out of

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Speaker 1: the way first, Joe, about Eachiro Suzuki. One writer did

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Speaker 1: not vote for him, and everybody wants to get their

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Speaker 1: pitchforks and torches out and try to find out who

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Speaker 1: it was. It doesn't matter, folks, I think, to me,

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Speaker 1: there's way too much attention paid to it. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is not an sat test. Is each year old

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Speaker 1: Hall of Famer? Of course he is. Did I vote

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Speaker 1: for him? Of course I did. But when you have

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Speaker 1: almost four hundred people voting, whether they're writers or you know,

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Speaker 1: people on the street, you're going to have a difference

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Speaker 1: of opinion. And you know, instead of looking at it

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Speaker 1: like he had one.

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Speaker 2: Of the highest vote totals in the history of Hall of.

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Speaker 1: Fame voting, everybody wants to know, take this guy's credential away.

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Speaker 1: Don't let them vote again. No, it's not that important.

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Speaker 1: Once you're over seventy five percent, it really doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: Does it mean that Mariano Rivera, the only player to

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Speaker 1: get voted in unanimously, is the greatest player of all time? No,

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Speaker 1: it's just a quirk in the voting system. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to get that out of the way. But I'd

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Speaker 1: like to know why someone left them off the back. Well, sure,

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Speaker 1: why not? But I don't want a pillary whoever didn't

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Speaker 1: vote for him. It doesn't really matter. What's your take

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Speaker 1: on that and all the attention paid to it.

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Speaker 3: Joe yeah, when you win the World Series, if you

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Speaker 3: win by one run, or if you win three games

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Speaker 3: to one or four to three or sweep him, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't matter. You want it right, he won. It's just

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Speaker 3: a curiosity factor. And like you're saying, more than who

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Speaker 3: it was, why he didn't vote for him? Like you said,

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Speaker 3: why did he not vote for I'm just curious. I'd

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Speaker 3: be a curiosity thing. I wouldn't be upset with him

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Speaker 3: as a scout and not.

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Speaker 4: A scouting director.

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Speaker 3: But having worked for them, you know, it's everybody's different

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Speaker 3: how they view things. Everybody's you have the tough graders

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Speaker 3: and you have the easy graders. Now easily you could

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Speaker 3: argue that regardless if you're a tougher and easy grader,

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Speaker 3: you got to vote for eachro Suzuki, So I don't

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Speaker 3: even know there's.

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Speaker 4: A bias in there. Whatever.

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Speaker 3: But again, like you're saying, it doesn't really matter, it's

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Speaker 3: just a curiosity thing. But he's got in. It doesn't

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Speaker 3: seventy five percent the number at that point. He's a

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Speaker 3: Hall of Famer and so one hundred percent. It's always

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Speaker 3: kind of cool to say that, but at the end

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Speaker 3: of the day, man, he's in and very happy for

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Speaker 3: this class. We talked about I think we hit on

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Speaker 3: all three of these guys, and we talked about it previously,

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Speaker 3: so all worthy. It's you know, you look at the

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Speaker 3: names that didn't make it, and I'm sure you're going

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Speaker 3: to get into that a bit also, and I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to visualize in my head, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: good names in there, even like an Alex Rodriguez, who

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Speaker 3: physically as as a baseball player, was worthy of it. However,

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Speaker 3: all the different things that occurred has prevented this.

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Speaker 4: But the guys that.

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Speaker 3: Got to the Hall of Famer are like kind of

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Speaker 3: Hall of famers. Either the rest of the names, it

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Speaker 3: just loows short, little short, little short, and eventually maybe

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Speaker 3: but you' like at Billy Wagner, it's amazing that he's

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Speaker 3: had to wait this long if you look at his

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Speaker 3: body of work.

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Speaker 4: So I think the.

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Speaker 3: Guy's got it right actually, and seventy five percent the number.

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Speaker 3: It's just a curiosity thing whether or not or why

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Speaker 3: this fella did not vote for him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and here's what I like about it too, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's we love the game of baseball. One

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Speaker 1: of the things you love most about it is it's

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Speaker 1: pure democracy that anybody can play this game right, and

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Speaker 1: greatness comes in all different shapes and size and paths

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Speaker 1: to Cooperstown. The same way. Think about each Rosuzuki. When

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Speaker 1: he first signed with the ORGX Blue Wave, he was

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Speaker 1: five foot nine and one hundred and twenty pounds one

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty pounds, and his manager at that time

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Speaker 1: didn't think he would ever hit because he was so small,

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Speaker 1: and he had this really unorthodox approach at the plate.

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Speaker 1: He winds up getting if he counted his time in Japan,

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Speaker 1: more than four thousand hits. You've got CC Sabathia, who

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Speaker 1: played it at his biggest six foot six and three

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Speaker 1: hundred pounds. There's never been a Hall of Famer with

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Speaker 1: a playing weight listed at more than two hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty pounds.

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Speaker 2: That was Jim Tomey.

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Speaker 1: There'd never been a pitcher at more than two hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty five pounds make the Hall of Fame, and

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Speaker 1: that's Roy Halliday and Brandy Johnson. So you have Sabbathia

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Speaker 1: at three hundred pounds, and he had this beautiful delivery,

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Speaker 1: very athletic, repeatable delivery, one of the best arm swings

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen. His athleticism really stands out at a

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Speaker 1: size we just didn't see anybody get the Cooperstown with.

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Speaker 2: And then you've got Billy Wagner.

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Speaker 1: Billy Wagner was born right handed, broke his arm in

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Speaker 1: a backyard football game as a kid. I think he

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Speaker 1: was seven years old. He said it was chip from

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Speaker 1: across the street.

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Speaker 2: Nice going chip.

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Speaker 1: Because that right handed Billy Wagner became a Hall of

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Speaker 1: Fame pitcher with a left hand. It's just amazing. And

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Speaker 1: Billy Wagner was five foot ten. In the last ninety

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Speaker 1: one years, there's been only two pitchers who made it

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Speaker 1: to the major leagues who are in the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: One is Whitey Ford and one is Billy Wagner. So

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Speaker 1: when you see a picture of this Hall of Fame,

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Speaker 1: at least the Writer's Ballot class of twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 1: you've got each hero, You've got CC, and you've got

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Speaker 1: Billy the Kid, all different body types.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you're bringing all that up. I remember

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Speaker 3: I'm seeing this about thea pitch in Cleveland. That's when

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Speaker 3: I first saw him. And yeah, big man, really big man.

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Speaker 3: The literally the uniform was draped over him was it

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Speaker 3: even like tucked. And in spite of the size, he

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Speaker 3: did have this luidity about him movement cover first base.

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Speaker 3: We delivered the baseball, and of course I don't mean

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Speaker 3: this is setiallys but facetiously, but a big backside. He

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Speaker 3: turned that backside over and there was a lot of

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Speaker 3: power involved in that really good breaking ball night another

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Speaker 3: cleveland Er, Bartolo Colonna's the first time I saw bart

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Speaker 3: bart not as big as him in a sense, but

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Speaker 3: I would bet close to the same weight almost at times.

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Speaker 3: But just regardless of how big they were physically girth wise,

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Speaker 3: they moved. The movement was good. I mean, as a scout,

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Speaker 3: you're always looking for body movement. Does he does it

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Speaker 3: easily as a full effort kind of a guy that

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Speaker 3: really has to bump and grind to get it there.

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Speaker 4: He wasn't. He wasn't.

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Speaker 3: Bartolo wasn't. They had the smoothness about him. So sometimes

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Speaker 3: the actual physical body belies how athletic.

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Speaker 4: Somebody may be.

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Speaker 3: And he is, and I guess he hit the ball

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Speaker 3: pretty well as a hitter also, and given that opportunity

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Speaker 3: sabout the I little pop in the bat.

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Speaker 4: But nevertheless, I'm happy for him.

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Speaker 3: I don't really know him, even if I've ever said

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Speaker 3: a low to him, but definitely seen him on the

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Speaker 3: other side of the field. And I'm very happy for

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Speaker 3: him because they absolutely believe he deserves to be there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, great competitor, great teammate, you know, one of he's

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Speaker 1: one of the rare pitchers, Joe, that can bridge the

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Speaker 1: gap between the position players and the pitchers. If you're

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Speaker 1: around a major league clubhouse, you would notice that it's

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Speaker 1: almost like offense and defense and football.

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Speaker 2: They kind of hang out together. They're on different schedules.

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Speaker 1: You don't see a lot of mixing among pitchers and

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Speaker 1: everyday players. But Cec was one of those pitchers who

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Speaker 1: could actually do that. That's a rarity of the game

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Speaker 1: and it was really cool to me.

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Speaker 2: Joe.

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Speaker 1: We talk a lot about coaching and the recognition that

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Speaker 1: coaches get, and I asked Cec because he was a

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Speaker 1: multi sport athlete.

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Speaker 2: You know, he got to the big leagues at age twenty.

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Speaker 1: He had played positions in the field, as you know,

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Speaker 1: going up through high school, and he really didn't become

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Speaker 1: a pitcher. I'm talking about an accomplished pitcher of a

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Speaker 1: refined pitcher until he got to the Major leagues, and

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Speaker 1: he gave all the credit to Carl Willis, the pitching

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Speaker 1: coach for Cleveland at the time. He said, the pitches

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Speaker 1: that I threw, the choices that I make, my wind up,

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Speaker 1: my delivery, everything I owe to Carl Willis. I thought

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Speaker 1: that was so touching. You're talking about a major league

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Speaker 1: pitching coach as well. That the pitcher that c C.

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Speaker 1: Sabbathia became really good athlete, the pitcher he became, the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame pitcher he became was due to having

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Speaker 1: the influence of a pitching coach like Carl Willis when

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Speaker 1: he first got to the big leagues.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the truth, Carl, the truth Willis. We've talked about

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Speaker 3: him before. He and I worked together in Edmonton. He

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Speaker 3: was a player and I was a rooming instructor and

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Speaker 3: always had a great relationship.

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Speaker 4: This guy.

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Speaker 3: You're just drawn to Carl because he said so real,

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Speaker 3: just so real, just a good fella. And at that time, Abby,

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Speaker 3: he wasn't a coach, he was a pitcher. And then

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Speaker 3: he actually becomes a coach and I'm watching from a

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Speaker 3: distance and I'm just, you know, thought, and you're kind

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Speaker 3: of demonstrating here. The recap is that he's just an

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Speaker 3: easy guy to communicate with. I can't tell you I

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Speaker 3: can't speak to his depth of knowledge as a pitching

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Speaker 3: coach because I wasn't around him for that, But as

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Speaker 3: a person and relatable and easy to converse with. Absolutely,

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Speaker 3: and I actually became pretty good friends player coach at

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Speaker 3: that particular time. I love the idea, and trust me

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Speaker 3: and believe me. It's really important when a player like

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Speaker 3: a Sabbathi eventually achieving the Hall of Fame speaks of

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Speaker 3: the coach or the scout in his history and his background,

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Speaker 3: the guys that really were influential in getting him to

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Speaker 3: that particular point.

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Speaker 4: It matters.

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Speaker 3: It matters to that coach, It matters to that scout,

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Speaker 3: It matters to that person that really doesn't get only

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Speaker 3: any credit for this. It's not like you go out

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Speaker 3: there seeking the credit. But when you're recognizing that way,

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Speaker 3: it really validates all that that amount of time as

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Speaker 3: a scout or as a coach that you put into

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Speaker 3: the day. People have no idea how much time that

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Speaker 3: actually is and how much you really live and die

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Speaker 3: by the success or failures of these guys that you've

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Speaker 3: signed or worked with.

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Speaker 4: It's it's kind of emotional.

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Speaker 3: It's very emotional, actually, and I felt it as a scout,

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Speaker 3: I felt it as a coach, and exactly you know,

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Speaker 3: the feeling involved.

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Speaker 4: So I'm really that's really cool.

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Speaker 3: And you're talking about if Sabathia has had that kind

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Speaker 3: of reputation among his peers within the clubhouse, it's not

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Speaker 3: a surprise that he would recognize those that.

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Speaker 4: Really helped him.

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Speaker 3: And I'm very happy for him, like I said, and

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Speaker 3: I'm really happy for Carl too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so am I, Joe, because when Ceci said that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's this newly minted Hall of Famer and

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Speaker 1: he's given so much credit to his first pitching coach

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Speaker 1: in the big leagues. And I just imagine, you know,

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Speaker 1: if Carl was watching or certainly he heard about it,

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Speaker 1: just the satisfaction. And listen, as you know, Joe, it's

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Speaker 1: not the reason why the coaches do this. They do

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Speaker 1: it because they love what they do and they're not

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Speaker 1: looking for credit. But when credit comes, and especially for

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Speaker 1: someone who became a Hall of Fame pitcher, that has

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Speaker 1: to be so rewarding because these guys don't get acknowledged

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Speaker 1: nearly as much as they should. I thought that was

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Speaker 1: very cool. On Sabbathias's part and good on Carl Willis,

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Speaker 1: and when it gets it comes to each Hero. Really,

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Speaker 1: his dad was.

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Speaker 2: His biggest influence. You know.

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Speaker 1: His dad started working with him and I mean intense

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Speaker 1: drilling as a youngster, and he had one of these

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Speaker 1: kids who, let's face it, liked it.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: We try to I call it the Tiger Woods Dad

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Speaker 1: syndrome where we heard the stories about Tiger getting drilled

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Speaker 1: by his dad and his dad jingling the car keys

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Speaker 1: in the back of his swing to you know, get

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Speaker 1: him to learn how to concentrate through all kinds of distractions.

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Speaker 1: That's great when you have someone who's motivated to want

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Speaker 1: to be great and loves and.

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Speaker 2: Has this incredible passion to work that hard.

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Speaker 1: You can't do that with every kid, so it's not

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Speaker 1: something that should be modeled necessarily, but each Hero's dad

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Speaker 1: worked them hard. He also saw that his kid was

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Speaker 1: not going to be really big. So each Hero is

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Speaker 1: a natural right hander. Obviously you've seen him throw in

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Speaker 1: the outfield right handed, but his dad had him hit

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Speaker 1: from the left side of the plate because the left

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Speaker 1: handed batter's box is a step or two closer to

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Speaker 1: first base, and he thought his smaller son could take

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Speaker 1: advantage of that shorter path the first base, and boy

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Speaker 1: did he with that gliding style that running start. So

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Speaker 1: good on each Row and his dad for turning him

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Speaker 1: into the hitter that he became. And you have to remember,

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Speaker 1: you know this Joe, when he came to the major

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Speaker 1: leagues in two thousand and one, people weren't sure if

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Speaker 1: each hero was going to hit. You know, we didn't

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Speaker 1: have nearly the kind of information of foreign players coming

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Speaker 1: over here at that time, and.

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Speaker 2: The game was in love with power.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the numbers and the players themselves were getting

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Speaker 1: cartoonishly big. We're talking about two thousand and one. The

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Speaker 1: greatest three years successful years of slugging in baseball history

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Speaker 1: is ninety nine, two thousand and two thousand and one.

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Speaker 2: And we all know why.

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Speaker 1: It was the peder And here comes this one hundred

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Speaker 1: and seventy five pounds, five foot ten corner.

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Speaker 2: Outfielder who's just slapping the ball.

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Speaker 1: And you know what, give credit to each tier Row

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Speaker 1: because he decided he was to be true to his

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Speaker 1: style of play. He wasn't going to bend to the

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Speaker 1: American style and try to hit home runs.

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Speaker 2: I really always admired that about him, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there was probably some subtle, if not implied,

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Speaker 1: pressure to develop into more of a power guy. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you look at corner ole fielders in the Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame, Eiros has the lowest adjusted ops. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's the guy who did not hit for extra bases,

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Speaker 1: he did not walk. He was amazing at getting his sits,

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Speaker 1: his singles. So I've always admired that Joe, that e

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Speaker 1: Heiro is true to himself and his style, despite let's

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Speaker 1: face that the American influences were going in the other direction.

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Speaker 3: It just sounds like the influence of his dad stuck

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Speaker 3: pretty strongly. The fact that he knew who he was

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Speaker 3: through the drilling that his pop had done.

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Speaker 4: He wasn't going to change just because of all of that.

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Speaker 3: He probably realized at a young age, even when he

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Speaker 3: first came over and as he started catching on that

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Speaker 3: y I can do this, I could show them a

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Speaker 3: different path here, and by staying within my abilities, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to be different. I think that's you know, I

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Speaker 3: think he's the kind of guy that embraces being a

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Speaker 3: little bit different and not part of the pack. Describing

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Speaker 3: as pop, I just start thinking.

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Speaker 4: About my coaches that I've had in the past. Tough

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Speaker 4: is good. I mean it was a way, you know.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how much it's actually utilized in today's

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Speaker 3: world in regards to coaching, where I.

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Speaker 4: Think there's a lot of pandering done. Tough can be good.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I meaning that I always love to be

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Speaker 3: shot straight by these different coaches. I didn't need to

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Speaker 3: always get these warm fuzzies need to be I need

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Speaker 3: to be told when I was wrong or I was

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Speaker 3: getting off track a little bit. And the work itself

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Speaker 3: had to be difficult. You can the workouts had to

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Speaker 3: be difficult. Everything had to be there had to be

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Speaker 3: a certain level of difficulty, and you could identify with

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Speaker 3: that too. That's just how we were raised and trained,

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Speaker 3: and we were able to, I think, accept criticism a

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Speaker 3: lot more readily and easily. Wad to take it to

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Speaker 3: the point where it would be devastating, it would.

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Speaker 4: Be more motivating. So I kind of like that.

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Speaker 3: Yet, he understanding your student is also really important with

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Speaker 3: how much how much can this student take it? I

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Speaker 3: don't know to what level his dad really thought about

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Speaker 3: that stuff, if Prob was his son, but how much

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Speaker 3: can I give this guy. How tough can I be

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Speaker 3: on this guy? How you know they weren't Fuzzy's hell

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Speaker 3: oft enough to have to throw them out there. There's

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Speaker 3: all these different you know, putting the gas down and

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Speaker 3: applying the break kind of a method to coaching, and

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Speaker 3: then the overall communication. And I'd love to know more

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Speaker 3: about all this. I didn't realize his dad was that influential.

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Speaker 3: And you're talking about a guy that you describe them physically.

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Speaker 3: That's how big I was when I played mission football

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Speaker 3: when I was twelve. It's incredible that he grew into

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Speaker 3: this kind of player. So, yeah, there's a lot to

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Speaker 3: unpack with all that. Tough is good. I wrote that down.

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Speaker 3: I'm okay with tough. I like tough. I like to

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Speaker 3: be coach tough, and you have to understand the student

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Speaker 3: and they'd be communication. It could be really difficulty with

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Speaker 3: father's son. I mean, there's no latitude given there sometimes

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Speaker 3: whether it's a Woods or mister Suzuki. It's kind of

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Speaker 3: interesting that both guys started up pretty well athletically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you got Billy Wagner.

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Speaker 1: Let's not forget you know, he went to a Division

355
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Speaker 1: III school, Fareham College.

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Speaker 2: You know they found him.

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Speaker 1: You throw like Billy Wagner, upper nineties, one hundred miles

358
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Speaker 1: an hour at the time, they'll find you. He was

359
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Speaker 1: a first round pick twelfth overall, and he did pitch

360
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Speaker 1: for many different teams. But I think, Joe, that's because

361
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Speaker 1: he was always in demand. And I want to get

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Speaker 1: your take on this from a manager's perspective, because I

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Speaker 1: know people had this knock on Billy Wagner that he

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Speaker 1: didn't throw enough innings is barely over nine hundred innings,

365
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Speaker 1: but the game had changed in the course of his career,

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Speaker 1: where you know, as a manager, they were essentially saving

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Speaker 1: these great arms for the ninth inning. And I think

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Speaker 1: it was more a matter of how he was used

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Speaker 1: than the fact was, you know, Billy Wagner couldn't pitch more.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this guy, maybe maybe his best year was

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Speaker 1: his last year in the major leagues. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: went home because he wanted to be home with his

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Speaker 1: wife and kids. How do you take that away from

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Speaker 1: a guy or take it against the guy. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: because he was running out of anything in the tank.

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Speaker 1: He had an outstanding All Star season in his last

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Speaker 1: year in.

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Speaker 2: The big league.

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Speaker 1: So I always thought it was bogus, this idea that

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Speaker 1: he didn't throw enough innings because Billy Wagner.

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Speaker 2: Every time he pitched.

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Speaker 1: Essentially, managers were using him with the game on the line,

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Speaker 1: the most important parts of a game. He was not

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Speaker 1: hanging on. He was not pitching middle innings. He was

385
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Speaker 1: not a failed starter, although he did start in the

386
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Speaker 1: minor leagues. He was a guy throughout his career it

387
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Speaker 1: was always pitching in the highest leverage spots. So the

388
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Speaker 1: hitters are telling me that he's the most difficult pitcher

389
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Speaker 1: to hit in the history of the game. I mean,

390
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Speaker 1: look at batting average, and the managers are telling me

391
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Speaker 1: they want to keep using this guy with the game

392
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Speaker 1: on the line.

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Speaker 2: That means a lot to me.

394
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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it's wise to walk away too early than

395
00:17:51,078 --> 00:17:54,798
Speaker 3: to walk away too late. Maybe I'm sure that wasn't

396
00:17:54,798 --> 00:17:57,878
Speaker 3: his philosophy, but that's exactly what he did. And what

397
00:17:57,958 --> 00:18:00,518
Speaker 3: you're describing is, like you said, you mentioned it early

398
00:18:00,558 --> 00:18:03,638
Speaker 3: on there the methods employed first coming up like that

399
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Speaker 3: in the minor leagues, even in the eighties into the nineties,

400
00:18:06,798 --> 00:18:11,038
Speaker 3: and as a manager and coach even Angels and then

401
00:18:11,118 --> 00:18:13,558
Speaker 3: manager of the Rays, it was a different method You

402
00:18:13,598 --> 00:18:15,878
Speaker 3: were trying to set this guy for the ninth You

403
00:18:15,958 --> 00:18:19,558
Speaker 3: were not going to utilize him earlier than that. The

404
00:18:19,958 --> 00:18:23,798
Speaker 3: high leverage moment was pretty much reserved for the ninth inning.

405
00:18:23,838 --> 00:18:25,878
Speaker 3: You're right, probably the three most difficult ots.

406
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Speaker 4: To get in the game.

407
00:18:26,198 --> 00:18:29,118
Speaker 3: I'll argue that with anybody's you know, you could talk

408
00:18:29,118 --> 00:18:32,358
Speaker 3: about the save itself and the three run lead and

409
00:18:32,398 --> 00:18:34,918
Speaker 3: what that all means, and that's even changed now with

410
00:18:34,958 --> 00:18:36,118
Speaker 3: the three batter minimum.

411
00:18:36,198 --> 00:18:37,598
Speaker 4: All that stuff is different.

412
00:18:37,718 --> 00:18:41,918
Speaker 3: So it's hard to evaluate him identically because, like you're saying,

413
00:18:42,238 --> 00:18:44,758
Speaker 3: the usage was not determined by him. Although you go

414
00:18:44,838 --> 00:18:46,358
Speaker 3: up to a player, you go to a picture, and

415
00:18:46,358 --> 00:18:47,438
Speaker 3: you say, how do you feel today?

416
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Speaker 4: Are you good to go? And again to today's.

417
00:18:50,718 --> 00:18:55,118
Speaker 3: World, almost it's almost conterintuitive, but they're even more careful

418
00:18:55,158 --> 00:18:57,318
Speaker 3: now than they had been regarding number of appearances in

419
00:18:57,358 --> 00:19:01,518
Speaker 3: a row and actually listening to a pitcher and athletes

420
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Speaker 3: saying I'm good to go or not good to go,

421
00:19:03,558 --> 00:19:06,038
Speaker 3: compare to now where they're just going off of metrics

422
00:19:06,038 --> 00:19:09,838
Speaker 3: and and little tables that they create for the month itself.

423
00:19:09,918 --> 00:19:12,798
Speaker 3: So he was that good and you're talking about one

424
00:19:12,798 --> 00:19:15,078
Speaker 3: of the more difficult guys in history to hit I'm

425
00:19:15,078 --> 00:19:16,678
Speaker 3: okay with him walking away a little bit too early

426
00:19:16,678 --> 00:19:18,878
Speaker 3: as opposed a little bit too late, and he had

427
00:19:18,878 --> 00:19:21,758
Speaker 3: no control over how often he was used. I can't

428
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Speaker 3: imagine him like he was saying, I'm sorry, I can't

429
00:19:23,518 --> 00:19:23,918
Speaker 3: pitch to that.

430
00:19:23,958 --> 00:19:24,758
Speaker 4: I don't even know that.

431
00:19:24,878 --> 00:19:26,798
Speaker 3: But for the most part, that was a different method

432
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Speaker 3: employed by managers back then.

433
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and finally, Joe, that's one reason why cecs Maathia

434
00:19:31,878 --> 00:19:34,198
Speaker 1: is such a legend, the way he pitched an eight

435
00:19:34,238 --> 00:19:35,758
Speaker 1: down the stretch from Milwaukee right.

436
00:19:35,798 --> 00:19:37,478
Speaker 2: First of all, give credit to Doug Melvyn.

437
00:19:37,558 --> 00:19:39,798
Speaker 1: He was the general manager of Milwaukee at the time,

438
00:19:40,518 --> 00:19:44,358
Speaker 1: and CC wasn't his last year entering free agency for Cleveland,

439
00:19:45,038 --> 00:19:47,358
Speaker 1: and instead of waiting for the trade deadline, Doug Melvin

440
00:19:47,478 --> 00:19:50,558
Speaker 1: went to Cleveland before the All Star break and said,

441
00:19:50,598 --> 00:19:51,878
Speaker 1: we want to make this deal now.

442
00:19:51,958 --> 00:19:54,078
Speaker 2: He jumped the market he wanted to make.

443
00:19:54,238 --> 00:19:56,118
Speaker 1: He wanted to have Sabbathia make as many starts as

444
00:19:56,158 --> 00:19:58,398
Speaker 1: possible for a team that was gunning for the postseason.

445
00:19:58,798 --> 00:20:01,918
Speaker 1: Pointed that workout well, but you also had CC down

446
00:20:01,958 --> 00:20:05,398
Speaker 1: the stretch taking the ball with three days of multiple times,

447
00:20:05,878 --> 00:20:07,958
Speaker 1: and I know his agent wasn't happy about it. They

448
00:20:07,958 --> 00:20:10,358
Speaker 1: were a little concerned because he was entering free agency,

449
00:20:10,398 --> 00:20:13,558
Speaker 1: but Ceci kept saying, give me the ball. He was

450
00:20:13,598 --> 00:20:16,718
Speaker 1: pitching the best base ball of his career, and he

451
00:20:16,758 --> 00:20:19,438
Speaker 1: could not wait to take the ball. He said, this

452
00:20:19,638 --> 00:20:22,158
Speaker 1: was the only time in his career during this stretch

453
00:20:22,198 --> 00:20:24,158
Speaker 1: where he felt like every time he took the ball

454
00:20:24,198 --> 00:20:27,438
Speaker 1: he was going to win. Why not ride this guy

455
00:20:27,558 --> 00:20:30,758
Speaker 1: who's built like a house. He's got tremendous confidence in

456
00:20:30,798 --> 00:20:33,838
Speaker 1: the prime of his career. And he looked at his

457
00:20:33,918 --> 00:20:36,038
Speaker 1: numbers down the stretch, they were just off the charts.

458
00:20:36,518 --> 00:20:39,758
Speaker 1: His last three starts all on three days rest. His

459
00:20:39,878 --> 00:20:42,758
Speaker 1: last art actually was one hundred and twenty two pitches

460
00:20:42,838 --> 00:20:45,478
Speaker 1: in a two run game. He was his own closer

461
00:20:45,518 --> 00:20:47,718
Speaker 1: in that game. You look at that now, Joe, and

462
00:20:47,758 --> 00:20:50,038
Speaker 1: it wasn't that long ago, and you think it was

463
00:20:50,198 --> 00:20:53,798
Speaker 1: ancient history, because no starting pitcher would be allowed to

464
00:20:53,838 --> 00:20:57,118
Speaker 1: do anything like that. Pitching multiple times on three days

465
00:20:57,118 --> 00:20:59,198
Speaker 1: of rest down the stretch in the last month of

466
00:20:59,238 --> 00:21:01,918
Speaker 1: the season and closing his own two run game with

467
00:21:01,958 --> 00:21:02,598
Speaker 1: one hundred.

468
00:21:02,398 --> 00:21:03,318
Speaker 2: And twenty two pitches.

469
00:21:04,118 --> 00:21:06,838
Speaker 1: The legend of ccis about the tremendous respect for him,

470
00:21:06,878 --> 00:21:09,158
Speaker 1: and today it looks like it's from another age.

471
00:21:09,598 --> 00:21:10,598
Speaker 4: I remember watching that.

472
00:21:10,678 --> 00:21:13,118
Speaker 3: I remember watching specifically because that's the year we went

473
00:21:13,118 --> 00:21:14,918
Speaker 3: to the World Series with the Rays and played the

474
00:21:14,918 --> 00:21:18,358
Speaker 3: Phillies two thousand and eight, and it was just you said,

475
00:21:18,358 --> 00:21:20,078
Speaker 3: it was his free agent year, right, he was going

476
00:21:20,118 --> 00:21:20,678
Speaker 3: to be a free agent.

477
00:21:20,678 --> 00:21:21,758
Speaker 4: It's a conclusion, you know.

478
00:21:21,798 --> 00:21:23,998
Speaker 3: That was the part that really I was impressed with

479
00:21:24,038 --> 00:21:26,998
Speaker 3: the fact that he was not worried about that, in

480
00:21:27,038 --> 00:21:29,438
Speaker 3: other words, getting hurt, primarily because that seems to be

481
00:21:29,478 --> 00:21:32,758
Speaker 3: the issue. He was not concerned about that. He wanted

482
00:21:32,798 --> 00:21:34,958
Speaker 3: to win, and the fact that the Brewers gave him

483
00:21:34,958 --> 00:21:39,278
Speaker 3: that opportunity just again, it's just it's just as it

484
00:21:39,318 --> 00:21:42,918
Speaker 3: should be all the time, and it always it's always

485
00:21:42,918 --> 00:21:45,398
Speaker 3: frustrating the way the new methods has been employed.

486
00:21:45,918 --> 00:21:47,758
Speaker 4: But yeah, I remember that, I remember him.

487
00:21:48,278 --> 00:21:52,358
Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, this guy is saying, you know what,

488
00:21:52,398 --> 00:21:54,078
Speaker 3: I'm going to be a free agent, but screw that,

489
00:21:54,118 --> 00:21:55,318
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna I want to pitch it.

490
00:21:55,318 --> 00:21:55,918
Speaker 4: I want to win.

491
00:21:56,598 --> 00:21:58,318
Speaker 3: And that for the next team that was going to

492
00:21:58,318 --> 00:22:00,518
Speaker 3: get him, I knew that there had to be concerns about, oh,

493
00:22:00,558 --> 00:22:02,518
Speaker 3: did they overuse him? Is he going to break down

494
00:22:02,558 --> 00:22:05,438
Speaker 3: all the different thoughts that are employed with that in

495
00:22:05,478 --> 00:22:07,678
Speaker 3: that particular moment. But you also have to think, Yeah,

496
00:22:07,758 --> 00:22:11,558
Speaker 3: this guy, this guy got after it the most ferocious

497
00:22:11,558 --> 00:22:15,318
Speaker 3: time of the year and he came through. So there's

498
00:22:15,398 --> 00:22:16,878
Speaker 3: so much to be said about him. And like I said,

499
00:22:16,918 --> 00:22:19,558
Speaker 3: I don't know him. I wish I did, because everything

500
00:22:19,558 --> 00:22:21,838
Speaker 3: I've heard about this fellow just reeks up.

501
00:22:22,158 --> 00:22:23,518
Speaker 4: He's the kind of teammate you want.

502
00:22:23,878 --> 00:22:26,518
Speaker 1: Well said, Hey, we got through this whole segment, Joe,

503
00:22:26,518 --> 00:22:31,318
Speaker 1: we haven't even mentioned peds. You brought up Alex Rodriguez's name.

504
00:22:31,398 --> 00:22:34,238
Speaker 1: We have to talk about the voting how it applies

505
00:22:34,278 --> 00:22:37,518
Speaker 1: to the guys who have been tainted by peds. We'll

506
00:22:37,518 --> 00:22:39,958
Speaker 1: do that right after this quick break on the Book

507
00:22:39,998 --> 00:22:54,598
Speaker 1: of Joe. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast

508
00:22:54,678 --> 00:22:58,038
Speaker 1: with me, Tom Verducci and Joe Madden, and of course

509
00:22:58,078 --> 00:22:59,998
Speaker 1: every year Hall of Fame around this time we talk

510
00:23:00,038 --> 00:23:02,398
Speaker 1: about the effect of peds on voting, but.

511
00:23:02,518 --> 00:23:03,198
Speaker 2: Less and less.

512
00:23:03,198 --> 00:23:06,158
Speaker 1: Thankfully, first of all, there's less of them on the

513
00:23:06,198 --> 00:23:09,958
Speaker 1: actual ballot. But I think, Joe, it's because we pretty

514
00:23:10,038 --> 00:23:14,238
Speaker 1: much know if you fail a PED test or there's

515
00:23:14,598 --> 00:23:18,078
Speaker 1: enough public evidence of usage of peds, you're.

516
00:23:17,958 --> 00:23:20,838
Speaker 2: Not getting in the Hall of Fame. It is that simple.

517
00:23:20,958 --> 00:23:21,758
Speaker 2: It's not a rule.

518
00:23:22,558 --> 00:23:24,958
Speaker 1: Things may change over the time, but as we stand

519
00:23:24,998 --> 00:23:29,638
Speaker 1: here today, you simply cannot use peds and expect to

520
00:23:29,678 --> 00:23:32,598
Speaker 1: get into the Hall of Fame. We had another reason

521
00:23:32,638 --> 00:23:36,718
Speaker 1: to see that again with Many Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez.

522
00:23:36,998 --> 00:23:39,918
Speaker 1: Manny Ramirez is on a just had his ninth try

523
00:23:40,078 --> 00:23:43,278
Speaker 1: on the ballot, and I'll give you his percentages real quick,

524
00:23:43,878 --> 00:23:47,358
Speaker 1: and I'll round them up. Twenty four percent, two, twenty three,

525
00:23:47,518 --> 00:23:49,478
Speaker 1: twenty eight, twenty eight, twenty nine.

526
00:23:49,358 --> 00:23:52,958
Speaker 2: Thirty three, thirty three and this year thirty four.

527
00:23:53,598 --> 00:23:56,078
Speaker 1: Now I'll give you Alex Rodriguez, who's got four years

528
00:23:56,078 --> 00:23:59,398
Speaker 1: on the ballot, thirty four, thirty six, thirty five, and

529
00:23:59,478 --> 00:24:02,798
Speaker 1: this year at thirty seven. I mean, it's pretty established, Joe.

530
00:24:02,838 --> 00:24:05,478
Speaker 1: There's no momentum here. There's always going to be a

531
00:24:05,478 --> 00:24:07,558
Speaker 1: segment of voters who say, you know what, I don't

532
00:24:07,558 --> 00:24:11,078
Speaker 1: care that you use peds. You cheated the game, you

533
00:24:11,158 --> 00:24:13,878
Speaker 1: played on an uneven playing field. You use the federally

534
00:24:13,918 --> 00:24:17,758
Speaker 1: controlled substance to your own benefit while harming others.

535
00:24:18,638 --> 00:24:19,678
Speaker 2: Fine, it's going to happen.

536
00:24:19,878 --> 00:24:23,198
Speaker 1: That is a small subset, certainly, nothing close to seventy

537
00:24:23,198 --> 00:24:23,878
Speaker 1: five percent.

538
00:24:24,438 --> 00:24:26,638
Speaker 2: And I'm certainly okay with it.

539
00:24:26,678 --> 00:24:29,838
Speaker 1: You know, I understand the argument that, hey, we really

540
00:24:29,918 --> 00:24:32,238
Speaker 1: don't know on this case. We do know, we've talked

541
00:24:32,278 --> 00:24:35,958
Speaker 1: about failed tests, it's undisputed, and some people just want

542
00:24:35,958 --> 00:24:38,918
Speaker 1: to look the other way, and you know, say, you know,

543
00:24:38,998 --> 00:24:40,878
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be the judge of what's right

544
00:24:40,918 --> 00:24:43,958
Speaker 1: and what's wrong. That's fine, but there's not nearly enough

545
00:24:43,958 --> 00:24:45,598
Speaker 1: of those voters to get these guys in the Hall

546
00:24:45,598 --> 00:24:45,878
Speaker 1: of Fame.

547
00:24:45,958 --> 00:24:47,118
Speaker 2: I'm perfectly fine with it.

548
00:24:47,158 --> 00:24:49,478
Speaker 1: And I think if you had a poll of any

549
00:24:49,798 --> 00:24:52,238
Speaker 1: group of three hundred or three hundred and fifty people,

550
00:24:52,598 --> 00:24:57,398
Speaker 1: whether they're writers, broadcasters, players, managers, people on the street,

551
00:24:57,798 --> 00:25:00,358
Speaker 1: they're not going to get seventy five percent. And that

552
00:25:00,438 --> 00:25:01,838
Speaker 1: seems to be obvious by now.

553
00:25:02,398 --> 00:25:04,398
Speaker 3: It sounds like the same guys are voting for the

554
00:25:04,918 --> 00:25:08,118
Speaker 3: guys within the realm on a consistent basis.

555
00:25:08,158 --> 00:25:09,118
Speaker 4: The pd users.

556
00:25:09,118 --> 00:25:12,158
Speaker 3: There's a set method of sensibilities among the voters where

557
00:25:12,358 --> 00:25:14,758
Speaker 3: they're going to look past that because they have a

558
00:25:14,798 --> 00:25:18,438
Speaker 3: different criterion set within themselves regarding who's worthy or not

559
00:25:18,558 --> 00:25:21,198
Speaker 3: to get to the Hall of Fame. The PDS man.

560
00:25:21,238 --> 00:25:23,798
Speaker 3: We've talked about this obviously in the past too. I mean,

561
00:25:23,878 --> 00:25:25,998
Speaker 3: I just saw guys get big, and I was so

562
00:25:26,198 --> 00:25:30,118
Speaker 3: naive to the fact because waights weightlifting became popular in

563
00:25:30,158 --> 00:25:33,238
Speaker 3: the late seventies, early eighties, mid eighties, that's when waights

564
00:25:33,238 --> 00:25:36,518
Speaker 3: really became popular within clubhouses. Part of that there's always

565
00:25:36,558 --> 00:25:38,238
Speaker 3: a concern you're going to get too muscle bound to

566
00:25:38,238 --> 00:25:39,958
Speaker 3: stay away from those, even to the point I was

567
00:25:39,998 --> 00:25:42,558
Speaker 3: concerned about, you know, doing it for football, which I

568
00:25:42,598 --> 00:25:44,118
Speaker 3: wish retrospectively I had.

569
00:25:44,158 --> 00:25:45,478
Speaker 4: I wish somebody had made me do it.

570
00:25:45,518 --> 00:25:49,798
Speaker 3: But nevertheless, you saw, you saw guys get really really big,

571
00:25:50,638 --> 00:25:53,758
Speaker 3: uniforms got really really tight, and I'm just thinking, God,

572
00:25:53,798 --> 00:25:55,878
Speaker 3: these guys really work out hard in the off season.

573
00:25:55,918 --> 00:25:58,238
Speaker 3: I got to give them a lot of credit. So

574
00:25:58,318 --> 00:26:01,478
Speaker 3: that was my first take, being so naive to all

575
00:26:01,598 --> 00:26:04,358
Speaker 3: this stuff. And I had different guys mentioned, yeah, they're

576
00:26:04,358 --> 00:26:06,598
Speaker 3: on steroids or on pds just casually and what do

577
00:26:06,638 --> 00:26:09,718
Speaker 3: you talk, how would you know? Well, obviously it was true,

578
00:26:09,718 --> 00:26:11,878
Speaker 3: and I was just that native to the point. Part

579
00:26:11,918 --> 00:26:15,398
Speaker 3: of the PD era also that to me was pertinent

580
00:26:15,478 --> 00:26:18,438
Speaker 3: to the Tampa Bay Rays is or Devil Rays, that

581
00:26:18,518 --> 00:26:22,718
Speaker 3: it had to be sanctioned, come under control somehow, where

582
00:26:23,518 --> 00:26:26,518
Speaker 3: the testing became more prominent because I thought the only

583
00:26:26,518 --> 00:26:28,918
Speaker 3: way that the race could become dominant in a sense

584
00:26:29,078 --> 00:26:31,758
Speaker 3: was the fact that this became under control, that testing

585
00:26:31,798 --> 00:26:34,078
Speaker 3: would be out there and it would be working, because

586
00:26:34,838 --> 00:26:36,358
Speaker 3: the Rays are not going to be able to afford

587
00:26:36,438 --> 00:26:38,558
Speaker 3: players that were taking that stuff because their numbers were

588
00:26:38,598 --> 00:26:41,158
Speaker 3: so high and the cost was so prohibitive to the

589
00:26:41,238 --> 00:26:43,518
Speaker 3: Rays at that point. So part of I thought the

590
00:26:43,638 --> 00:26:46,318
Speaker 3: rai's ascension was the fact was kind of tied to

591
00:26:46,358 --> 00:26:49,918
Speaker 3: the fact that testing became more prominent and doable, and

592
00:26:49,958 --> 00:26:52,758
Speaker 3: the fact that it became it started began to eradicate

593
00:26:52,798 --> 00:26:54,958
Speaker 3: it from the game. So there was a correlation I

594
00:26:54,998 --> 00:26:57,958
Speaker 3: think between like lesser teams teams that don't have the

595
00:26:57,958 --> 00:27:01,678
Speaker 3: same kind of a payroll to ascending where the PDS

596
00:27:01,438 --> 00:27:04,798
Speaker 3: we started to becoming taken out out of the game itself,

597
00:27:04,838 --> 00:27:07,558
Speaker 3: because had that remain that way, there have been so

598
00:27:07,678 --> 00:27:09,838
Speaker 3: few teams that could afford those kind of numbers on

599
00:27:09,878 --> 00:27:11,918
Speaker 3: an annual basis. And maybe you could make that argument

600
00:27:12,038 --> 00:27:14,198
Speaker 3: The Dodgers were going to get into that in a bit,

601
00:27:14,278 --> 00:27:17,638
Speaker 3: But I do believe the Rays became pertinent as steroids

602
00:27:17,638 --> 00:27:19,998
Speaker 3: became less pertinent in the game.

603
00:27:20,318 --> 00:27:21,718
Speaker 2: It's a really interesting take.

604
00:27:21,798 --> 00:27:24,438
Speaker 1: Joe and I'm glad you brought it up, because there

605
00:27:24,478 --> 00:27:27,998
Speaker 1: were consequences to the fairness of the game, whether it

606
00:27:28,038 --> 00:27:30,798
Speaker 1: was individually or you pointed out, and I'm glad you did.

607
00:27:31,838 --> 00:27:36,078
Speaker 1: As a franchise, you were disadvantaged, There's no question about

608
00:27:36,078 --> 00:27:39,678
Speaker 1: that because power costs money, and as the power numbers

609
00:27:39,678 --> 00:27:42,438
Speaker 1: went up, it seems like the Rays weren't able to

610
00:27:42,478 --> 00:27:45,518
Speaker 1: afford those type of players. It's a great point. There's

611
00:27:45,518 --> 00:27:48,038
Speaker 1: so many dominoes that fell. It wasn't anything that was

612
00:27:48,038 --> 00:27:51,078
Speaker 1: done in a vacuum. So when people want to excuse

613
00:27:51,478 --> 00:27:54,118
Speaker 1: ped use, what they're doing is, first of all, you're

614
00:27:54,118 --> 00:27:58,758
Speaker 1: overlooking the most basic tenet of athleticism, which is fair play.

615
00:27:59,158 --> 00:28:02,078
Speaker 1: You have to compete fairly and me against you, my

616
00:28:02,158 --> 00:28:03,198
Speaker 1: best against your best.

617
00:28:03,358 --> 00:28:03,798
Speaker 2: That's it.

618
00:28:04,518 --> 00:28:07,318
Speaker 1: Not my druggist or my chemist against your chemist. We

619
00:28:07,358 --> 00:28:10,998
Speaker 1: don't want that. And then there are consequences to it,

620
00:28:11,318 --> 00:28:13,158
Speaker 1: and you eloquently described there.

621
00:28:13,238 --> 00:28:16,158
Speaker 2: So it's important to remember for me, at least for

622
00:28:16,198 --> 00:28:16,838
Speaker 2: me as a voter.

623
00:28:17,158 --> 00:28:19,278
Speaker 1: And then I look at someone like Andy Pettitt, Joe,

624
00:28:19,958 --> 00:28:22,158
Speaker 1: he actually got a little bit of a boost because

625
00:28:22,158 --> 00:28:24,518
Speaker 1: you look at his numbers, they're very similar to CC

626
00:28:24,678 --> 00:28:27,998
Speaker 1: Sabathia I mean they're almost identical. And Pettit got the

627
00:28:28,038 --> 00:28:31,918
Speaker 1: biggest jump of any returning candidate on the ballot. He

628
00:28:31,958 --> 00:28:34,718
Speaker 1: went up fourteen percent. Now, the bad news for him

629
00:28:34,758 --> 00:28:36,798
Speaker 1: is he's still under thirty percent. He's only at twenty

630
00:28:36,838 --> 00:28:39,478
Speaker 1: eight percent. He's got a long, long way to go

631
00:28:40,638 --> 00:28:41,758
Speaker 1: and really not.

632
00:28:42,318 --> 00:28:43,718
Speaker 2: Many chances to get there.

633
00:28:43,878 --> 00:28:46,078
Speaker 1: So Andy Pettitt now has had his seventh year, He's

634
00:28:46,078 --> 00:28:48,318
Speaker 1: got three more years on the ballot, So I don't

635
00:28:48,318 --> 00:28:50,598
Speaker 1: think he's getting in. But it was interesting to me

636
00:28:50,718 --> 00:28:52,958
Speaker 1: that all of a sudden with Sabathia on the ballot.

637
00:28:52,998 --> 00:28:54,558
Speaker 1: And this is generally the way it works. You're a

638
00:28:54,598 --> 00:28:57,158
Speaker 1: product not just of your career, but the company that's

639
00:28:57,198 --> 00:28:58,918
Speaker 1: on the ballot with you has a lot to do

640
00:28:58,958 --> 00:28:59,238
Speaker 1: with it.

641
00:28:59,878 --> 00:29:01,398
Speaker 2: Andy Pettitt got a boost.

642
00:29:01,838 --> 00:29:03,478
Speaker 1: Don't think he's going to get boosted all the way

643
00:29:03,478 --> 00:29:07,038
Speaker 1: to Cooper's town, but that was one ped user that

644
00:29:07,078 --> 00:29:08,318
Speaker 1: did see an increase.

645
00:29:08,878 --> 00:29:11,838
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think part of that would be the good

646
00:29:11,918 --> 00:29:15,358
Speaker 3: guy kind of a label that's attached. And I mean

647
00:29:15,478 --> 00:29:17,758
Speaker 3: he just seems like, again there's another guy where they

648
00:29:17,758 --> 00:29:20,998
Speaker 3: don't know but from a distance, very likable guy. When

649
00:29:21,038 --> 00:29:23,918
Speaker 3: he speaks, he speaks in a manner that he's kind

650
00:29:23,918 --> 00:29:27,118
Speaker 3: of draws you in a little bit, and he's easily

651
00:29:27,158 --> 00:29:30,078
Speaker 3: he's easily likable, like you're suggesting right now, I didn't

652
00:29:30,078 --> 00:29:31,838
Speaker 3: realize the numbers were that close between the two.

653
00:29:31,878 --> 00:29:33,278
Speaker 4: I'll tell you one thing though, big game.

654
00:29:33,358 --> 00:29:36,078
Speaker 3: This guy was tough man, and that move the first

655
00:29:36,118 --> 00:29:38,918
Speaker 3: base with the umpire's not really understanding what a back

656
00:29:38,998 --> 00:29:41,718
Speaker 3: looked like was devastating. I had all these little micro

657
00:29:41,878 --> 00:29:44,518
Speaker 3: things going on that made him really good. The stare

658
00:29:44,558 --> 00:29:46,598
Speaker 3: over the glove. I mean, there was a consistency about

659
00:29:46,598 --> 00:29:49,638
Speaker 3: this fella. And I think if you were a Yankee

660
00:29:49,678 --> 00:29:52,078
Speaker 3: and pettit was pitching, you felt pretty good about that night.

661
00:29:52,638 --> 00:29:57,038
Speaker 3: So I didn't again, not knowing you do the research

662
00:29:57,078 --> 00:29:58,838
Speaker 3: with the numbers way better than I do. I didn't

663
00:29:58,838 --> 00:30:02,078
Speaker 3: realize there was such a similarity between him. It's about

664
00:30:02,078 --> 00:30:04,758
Speaker 3: I would not have guessed that, not have known that.

665
00:30:05,158 --> 00:30:08,518
Speaker 3: So with taking that into consideration, the really the biggest

666
00:30:08,518 --> 00:30:11,998
Speaker 3: thing against his ability to get to the to the

667
00:30:12,038 --> 00:30:15,078
Speaker 3: hall would be the usage of the peds.

668
00:30:15,118 --> 00:30:17,638
Speaker 2: Correct, that's it. That's the only reason keeping them out.

669
00:30:17,718 --> 00:30:18,398
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's too bad.

670
00:30:18,438 --> 00:30:20,038
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a great he's a great guy,

671
00:30:20,518 --> 00:30:22,278
Speaker 3: and I think that's like like I said, I think

672
00:30:22,278 --> 00:30:23,958
Speaker 3: that's why you saw a little bit of a boosting

673
00:30:23,998 --> 00:30:26,998
Speaker 3: the numbers this year, just based on him and his personality,

674
00:30:27,038 --> 00:30:27,798
Speaker 3: how much he's liked.

675
00:30:28,278 --> 00:30:31,878
Speaker 1: Looking forward next year on the ballot, there's nobody who's

676
00:30:31,918 --> 00:30:33,638
Speaker 1: getting on the ballot for the first time who's going

677
00:30:33,678 --> 00:30:34,598
Speaker 1: to get into the Hall of Fame.

678
00:30:34,758 --> 00:30:36,638
Speaker 2: The top candidates are Ryan Brawn.

679
00:30:36,998 --> 00:30:41,398
Speaker 1: We just talked about the ped effects he's not getting in,

680
00:30:42,038 --> 00:30:46,638
Speaker 1: and Cole Hamil's who's had some huge moments obviously, and

681
00:30:46,758 --> 00:30:51,158
Speaker 1: Joe you were first hand witness to it, but probably

682
00:30:51,238 --> 00:30:53,518
Speaker 1: is a little bit short. He'll stay on the ballot

683
00:30:53,558 --> 00:30:56,398
Speaker 1: like Felix Hernandez did. At one point you talked about

684
00:30:56,398 --> 00:30:59,158
Speaker 1: Cole Hamills Felix Hernandez among the best pitchers in the game.

685
00:30:59,318 --> 00:31:02,558
Speaker 1: But the point being that there's there's no Echiro Suzuki

686
00:31:02,638 --> 00:31:04,998
Speaker 1: or c. C. Sabathia first Hall of Famer on next

687
00:31:05,038 --> 00:31:08,998
Speaker 1: year's ballot. So writers generally the way it works now

688
00:31:09,118 --> 00:31:12,398
Speaker 1: is they look for people to vote for, and you're

689
00:31:12,398 --> 00:31:15,478
Speaker 1: going to see Carlos Beltron and Andrew Jones, the ones

690
00:31:15,518 --> 00:31:18,598
Speaker 1: who just came below the cut off this year, pick

691
00:31:18,678 --> 00:31:21,358
Speaker 1: up more votes. I got to keep your eye on

692
00:31:21,438 --> 00:31:24,518
Speaker 1: as Chase Utley. Chase Utley saw a boost this year,

693
00:31:24,598 --> 00:31:27,438
Speaker 1: eleven percent boost this year. Jimmy Rollins, by the way,

694
00:31:27,478 --> 00:31:30,198
Speaker 1: did not see nearly the boost that his teammate did,

695
00:31:30,278 --> 00:31:33,278
Speaker 1: which is interesting to me. I kind of look at

696
00:31:33,318 --> 00:31:36,318
Speaker 1: them both in lockstep borderline Hall of Famers. But Utley

697
00:31:36,478 --> 00:31:39,318
Speaker 1: was at forty percent now and Jimmy Rollins only at

698
00:31:39,358 --> 00:31:43,598
Speaker 1: eighteen percent. Hard for me to decipher between the two

699
00:31:43,598 --> 00:31:43,918
Speaker 1: of those.

700
00:31:43,918 --> 00:31:45,758
Speaker 2: That gap should be that big Joe.

701
00:31:45,838 --> 00:31:48,758
Speaker 1: But first of all, give me your take, Chase Utley

702
00:31:49,398 --> 00:31:51,758
Speaker 1: Jimmy Rollins. I know you don't have the numbers in

703
00:31:51,878 --> 00:31:54,598
Speaker 1: front of you, but just as an observer of the game,

704
00:31:54,678 --> 00:31:56,878
Speaker 1: which one do you think is more closer to Cooperstown.

705
00:31:57,158 --> 00:31:59,878
Speaker 3: I think, like you're saying, the parallels are really similar.

706
00:32:00,078 --> 00:32:03,638
Speaker 3: I can't if they both should between thirty and forty

707
00:32:03,638 --> 00:32:06,318
Speaker 3: percent of the vote. I mean, the disparity doesn't make

708
00:32:06,358 --> 00:32:10,478
Speaker 3: any sense to me. Jimmy Rawlins dynamic player, really a

709
00:32:10,558 --> 00:32:13,918
Speaker 3: dynamic player, MVP, all that kind of good stuff, And

710
00:32:14,078 --> 00:32:15,798
Speaker 3: he was a he was a difference maker in the game,

711
00:32:15,838 --> 00:32:17,918
Speaker 3: and plus he played that such a vital position, and

712
00:32:17,958 --> 00:32:20,718
Speaker 3: if you want to break down position wise, a better

713
00:32:20,758 --> 00:32:23,198
Speaker 3: defender overall then and then Utley utly went through some

714
00:32:23,238 --> 00:32:26,478
Speaker 3: moments where he had he had little difficulty with throwing,

715
00:32:26,518 --> 00:32:29,598
Speaker 3: et cetera. So breaking the game is game down. In

716
00:32:29,638 --> 00:32:33,198
Speaker 3: his entirety, Rawlins to me had the edge over Utlely.

717
00:32:33,598 --> 00:32:37,678
Speaker 3: Both were like intense players. I mean Utly, he really

718
00:32:37,678 --> 00:32:41,758
Speaker 3: appeals to the machismo factor regarding voting as much as

719
00:32:41,798 --> 00:32:44,198
Speaker 3: anybody in the recent past. You talk about old school,

720
00:32:44,678 --> 00:32:48,238
Speaker 3: you talk about, you know, the competitive just the competitive

721
00:32:48,238 --> 00:32:50,838
Speaker 3: face of this man is like different. And so from

722
00:32:50,838 --> 00:32:54,598
Speaker 3: that perspective, I don't know how much in depth, like

723
00:32:54,598 --> 00:32:56,918
Speaker 3: you're saying number of numerically guys got into or not,

724
00:32:57,038 --> 00:33:00,278
Speaker 3: But on the surface, at least the kind of guy

725
00:33:00,358 --> 00:33:02,198
Speaker 3: like you know, this, this tough looking dude that you

726
00:33:02,238 --> 00:33:05,438
Speaker 3: want to this square jot that's not afraid to fight,

727
00:33:05,598 --> 00:33:08,838
Speaker 3: and I think there's an appeal from that perspective. But

728
00:33:08,918 --> 00:33:13,478
Speaker 3: overall game, you'd have to argue that maybe Rollins played

729
00:33:13,478 --> 00:33:16,278
Speaker 3: a better overall game when he came right down to it,

730
00:33:16,318 --> 00:33:18,398
Speaker 3: I don't know that the numbers back that up or

731
00:33:18,478 --> 00:33:22,518
Speaker 3: not a little bit more in your face with Utley

732
00:33:22,558 --> 00:33:25,038
Speaker 3: and kind of a man's man that you wanted on

733
00:33:25,078 --> 00:33:27,638
Speaker 3: your team and the other guys could gain some strength

734
00:33:27,638 --> 00:33:29,318
Speaker 3: and courage from looking at this fello, where the other

735
00:33:29,318 --> 00:33:31,518
Speaker 3: guy I just think was a more complete player. And

736
00:33:31,198 --> 00:33:35,198
Speaker 3: that's that's from my perspective. But neither one should be

737
00:33:35,478 --> 00:33:38,838
Speaker 3: considered way better than the other. These guys are in lockstep,

738
00:33:38,918 --> 00:33:41,198
Speaker 3: and I would be I'm surprised that the differential and

739
00:33:41,278 --> 00:33:42,158
Speaker 3: voting is so grand.

740
00:33:42,398 --> 00:33:45,318
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would guess that Carlos Beltron does get voted

741
00:33:45,318 --> 00:33:49,038
Speaker 1: in next year. He's at seventy percent. I vote for him.

742
00:33:49,078 --> 00:33:50,718
Speaker 1: I did not vote for him the first year. As

743
00:33:50,758 --> 00:33:54,598
Speaker 1: sort of like as my own statement about his involvement

744
00:33:54,678 --> 00:33:57,878
Speaker 1: in the Houston Astros signs stealing scandal, which he was

745
00:33:57,918 --> 00:33:59,198
Speaker 1: a major.

746
00:33:58,838 --> 00:34:00,718
Speaker 2: Part of it, major part of it. They called him

747
00:34:00,718 --> 00:34:01,358
Speaker 2: a godfather.

748
00:34:02,158 --> 00:34:04,118
Speaker 1: He arrived from the New York Yankees, and he's one

749
00:34:04,118 --> 00:34:07,598
Speaker 1: who told the Astros players, you guys are behind the times.

750
00:34:07,798 --> 00:34:09,518
Speaker 2: You got to get with it. In terms of stealing

751
00:34:09,558 --> 00:34:10,398
Speaker 2: signs off video.

752
00:34:10,878 --> 00:34:13,598
Speaker 1: He had a manager in aj Hinch who busted up

753
00:34:13,958 --> 00:34:16,598
Speaker 1: the monitor twice and still continue to do it. He

754
00:34:16,638 --> 00:34:18,358
Speaker 1: had a teammate and Brian McCann who told him to

755
00:34:18,398 --> 00:34:20,758
Speaker 1: stop it, still continues to do it. It bothers me

756
00:34:20,798 --> 00:34:23,358
Speaker 1: that he's never taken full ownership of it. But you know,

757
00:34:23,398 --> 00:34:25,478
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? Keep him out forever? It's

758
00:34:25,558 --> 00:34:27,478
Speaker 1: different than peds.

759
00:34:28,558 --> 00:34:29,118
Speaker 4: It just is.

760
00:34:29,198 --> 00:34:31,558
Speaker 2: It's not a federally controlled substance. I'm sorry.

761
00:34:32,198 --> 00:34:33,998
Speaker 1: And then you have Andrew Jones, who is going to

762
00:34:34,038 --> 00:34:37,118
Speaker 1: be very close. I have not voted for Andrew Jones.

763
00:34:38,438 --> 00:34:41,278
Speaker 1: His career went completely downhill in his thirties. He just

764
00:34:41,278 --> 00:34:43,638
Speaker 1: did not take care of himself. He wound up with

765
00:34:43,678 --> 00:34:47,118
Speaker 1: a lower adjusted ops than Jim Edmonds and Dale Murphy,

766
00:34:47,358 --> 00:34:50,198
Speaker 1: who I think we're better candidates. But he is up

767
00:34:50,198 --> 00:34:53,158
Speaker 1: to sixty six percent, so we'll see if he gets

768
00:34:53,478 --> 00:34:57,598
Speaker 1: over the line for next year. And finally, Joe, we're

769
00:34:57,638 --> 00:35:01,878
Speaker 1: going to bring up former Angel for you. Francisco Rodriguez

770
00:35:02,358 --> 00:35:04,878
Speaker 1: stays in the ballot with ten percent of the vote.

771
00:35:04,958 --> 00:35:07,758
Speaker 2: Maybe there's a comp there to Billy Wagner.

772
00:35:07,798 --> 00:35:10,798
Speaker 1: I just didn't see him as being as dominant as

773
00:35:10,798 --> 00:35:13,198
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner. But give me your take on k rod

774
00:35:13,198 --> 00:35:14,958
Speaker 1: and his Hall of Fame candidacy, because he does have

775
00:35:14,998 --> 00:35:15,878
Speaker 1: some really good numbers.

776
00:35:16,198 --> 00:35:18,398
Speaker 3: This guy was a difference maker for the two thousand

777
00:35:18,438 --> 00:35:20,478
Speaker 3: and two Angels winning the World Series. There is no

778
00:35:21,238 --> 00:35:24,958
Speaker 3: that's non arguable he was that influential and what we

779
00:35:24,998 --> 00:35:28,798
Speaker 3: did and what happened the thing that with him, he

780
00:35:28,838 --> 00:35:32,278
Speaker 3: went from this dominant hardball pitcher with the nasty slider,

781
00:35:32,318 --> 00:35:34,718
Speaker 3: and then he started to get more into the change up,

782
00:35:34,758 --> 00:35:38,238
Speaker 3: almost like Devin Williams kind of a pitch. The fellow

783
00:35:38,278 --> 00:35:40,838
Speaker 3: just got traded to the Yankees from the Brewers. He

784
00:35:40,958 --> 00:35:44,198
Speaker 3: kind of evolved into that pitcher. So I think had

785
00:35:44,238 --> 00:35:48,758
Speaker 3: he remained the hard fastball, hard slider, dominant pitcher that

786
00:35:48,838 --> 00:35:51,558
Speaker 3: he showed up as a youngster, it might be more

787
00:35:51,598 --> 00:35:54,878
Speaker 3: reasonable to consider that, but I don't. I never really

788
00:35:55,238 --> 00:35:57,118
Speaker 3: thought of him in a sense that he was a

789
00:35:57,158 --> 00:36:00,798
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame candidate from what I've seen in the past,

790
00:36:00,838 --> 00:36:01,958
Speaker 3: and listen.

791
00:36:01,758 --> 00:36:04,158
Speaker 4: I liked the guy a lot. We would be good friends.

792
00:36:04,158 --> 00:36:06,038
Speaker 3: He was, like I said, the reason why I have

793
00:36:06,078 --> 00:36:07,758
Speaker 3: a World one of the reasons I have another World

794
00:36:07,838 --> 00:36:10,478
Speaker 3: Series ring is because of him. But I never really

795
00:36:10,798 --> 00:36:14,198
Speaker 3: saw his career as that. He kind of fell off

796
00:36:14,238 --> 00:36:16,758
Speaker 3: the map a little bit, reinvented himself, came back with

797
00:36:16,838 --> 00:36:19,438
Speaker 3: the change up and was listen, he was very good.

798
00:36:19,598 --> 00:36:21,558
Speaker 3: It was very good, but it just wasn't a dominance

799
00:36:21,558 --> 00:36:24,718
Speaker 3: about him. Later on that there had been early I'm

800
00:36:24,758 --> 00:36:27,918
Speaker 3: telling you, man, when he first came up, that slider, slurve,

801
00:36:28,118 --> 00:36:29,718
Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it, they probably would call

802
00:36:29,758 --> 00:36:33,198
Speaker 3: it a sweeper today. It was unhittable. The Giants in

803
00:36:33,238 --> 00:36:36,038
Speaker 3: the two thousand and two World Series they got to

804
00:36:36,038 --> 00:36:39,638
Speaker 3: see it firsthand. It just fell off the table. He's

805
00:36:39,838 --> 00:36:42,758
Speaker 3: way across his body. It's hard to pick up his fastball,

806
00:36:43,278 --> 00:36:46,478
Speaker 3: which was really good velocity at that time. I think

807
00:36:46,478 --> 00:36:49,638
Speaker 3: he signed when he was sixteen something stupid like that. Yeah,

808
00:36:49,878 --> 00:36:52,078
Speaker 3: really really good major league pitcher. I don't think a

809
00:36:52,078 --> 00:36:52,678
Speaker 3: Hall of Famer.

810
00:36:52,918 --> 00:36:55,798
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the great out of nowhere stories. Ever.

811
00:36:56,038 --> 00:36:58,398
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're all trying to scramble who is this guy.

812
00:36:58,478 --> 00:37:01,118
Speaker 1: He's got very few professional innings. I think he was

813
00:37:01,198 --> 00:37:03,918
Speaker 1: nineteen years old or something at the time. Give confidence,

814
00:37:04,078 --> 00:37:06,638
Speaker 1: I mean, give credit to the Angels organization. Somebody made

815
00:37:06,678 --> 00:37:08,758
Speaker 1: good decisions about this guy being ready to put him

816
00:37:08,758 --> 00:37:09,438
Speaker 1: in those spots.

817
00:37:09,798 --> 00:37:13,398
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we when he came up, you know, social

818
00:37:13,438 --> 00:37:14,958
Speaker 3: was a little bit reticent putting him in the games.

819
00:37:15,038 --> 00:37:15,718
Speaker 4: We just didn't know.

820
00:37:15,758 --> 00:37:18,518
Speaker 3: I mean, we're in this situation where, you know, trying

821
00:37:18,518 --> 00:37:21,278
Speaker 3: to get to the playoffs and you know, obviously winning

822
00:37:21,278 --> 00:37:22,638
Speaker 3: the World Series for the first time.

823
00:37:22,758 --> 00:37:22,998
Speaker 4: It was.

824
00:37:23,198 --> 00:37:25,398
Speaker 3: There's a lot going on there, so I don't remember

825
00:37:25,438 --> 00:37:27,518
Speaker 3: the exact situation, but finally we put him in a

826
00:37:27,558 --> 00:37:30,958
Speaker 3: game and he just dominated and he went in there

827
00:37:30,958 --> 00:37:33,198
Speaker 3: and he just slammed it with the fastball slider, and

828
00:37:33,198 --> 00:37:37,398
Speaker 3: it was just obvious, Okay, this guy's okay.

829
00:37:37,398 --> 00:37:39,478
Speaker 4: And I think you can look this up. You probably

830
00:37:39,478 --> 00:37:40,118
Speaker 4: know better than me.

831
00:37:41,438 --> 00:37:43,598
Speaker 3: Was he put on the roster in September through the

832
00:37:43,718 --> 00:37:46,318
Speaker 3: utilization of a rule where somebody got hurt and then

833
00:37:46,358 --> 00:37:46,998
Speaker 3: we put him on.

834
00:37:47,278 --> 00:37:48,638
Speaker 4: I think that's what happened.

835
00:37:48,718 --> 00:37:51,638
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, it was after September first, but he

836
00:37:51,678 --> 00:37:54,038
Speaker 1: had been in the organization at the time and there

837
00:37:54,078 --> 00:37:57,558
Speaker 1: was an injury, so he was able to be playoff eligible.

838
00:37:57,398 --> 00:37:59,318
Speaker 3: Right, So we didn't really we didn't really see this

839
00:37:59,358 --> 00:38:01,438
Speaker 3: all in August and bring him up on September one

840
00:38:01,438 --> 00:38:02,838
Speaker 3: and we're relying on him to do all this.

841
00:38:02,878 --> 00:38:04,998
Speaker 4: I think it was kind of like he sees.

842
00:38:04,758 --> 00:38:07,878
Speaker 3: The moment he came in there and he said, I'm

843
00:38:07,918 --> 00:38:09,278
Speaker 3: going to show you guys what I can do.

844
00:38:09,358 --> 00:38:09,878
Speaker 4: And he did.

845
00:38:09,958 --> 00:38:12,038
Speaker 3: Man, from the very first time he went out there

846
00:38:12,718 --> 00:38:15,198
Speaker 3: to the last out of the World Series, he was

847
00:38:15,278 --> 00:38:17,998
Speaker 3: that dominant and it really helped Percy had a lot.

848
00:38:18,038 --> 00:38:20,718
Speaker 3: Troy Percival, another guy doesn't get enough credit for all

849
00:38:20,758 --> 00:38:23,198
Speaker 3: the body work he's done. But Percy and the rest

850
00:38:23,238 --> 00:38:25,758
Speaker 3: of that group, our bullpen was a really big part

851
00:38:25,758 --> 00:38:26,838
Speaker 3: of our success that year.

852
00:38:27,078 --> 00:38:29,678
Speaker 1: So it makes me wonder how many future Hall of

853
00:38:29,678 --> 00:38:33,758
Speaker 1: Famers are on the Los Angeles Dodgers right now. It's

854
00:38:33,838 --> 00:38:36,798
Speaker 1: at least four, and we'll see who else they add

855
00:38:36,838 --> 00:38:40,238
Speaker 1: to this roster. It is by far the best team

856
00:38:40,318 --> 00:38:43,478
Speaker 1: on paper in Major League Baseball. Are the Dodgers too

857
00:38:43,558 --> 00:38:46,678
Speaker 1: good for baseball? We'll talk about that right after this

858
00:39:00,678 --> 00:39:03,718
Speaker 1: Welcome Back to the Book of Joe podcast. Over the weekend,

859
00:39:03,918 --> 00:39:06,998
Speaker 1: I probably noticed the Dodgers added more talent. They added

860
00:39:07,038 --> 00:39:10,798
Speaker 1: the best relief pitcher on the market in Tanner Scott,

861
00:39:11,478 --> 00:39:16,278
Speaker 1: and they added the most talented free agent pitcher available,

862
00:39:16,838 --> 00:39:20,878
Speaker 1: Roki Sasaki from Japan, who, by the way, is signed

863
00:39:20,918 --> 00:39:23,158
Speaker 1: for just five million dollars and will play out a

864
00:39:23,158 --> 00:39:27,438
Speaker 1: minimum salary because he is bound by International Free Agent

865
00:39:27,638 --> 00:39:30,998
Speaker 1: Amateur signing rules. It's an embarrassment of riches, Joe. I

866
00:39:31,078 --> 00:39:33,958
Speaker 1: look at this Dodger's staff, and I gotta be honest

867
00:39:33,998 --> 00:39:35,958
Speaker 1: with you. The first thing I did, I looked up

868
00:39:36,398 --> 00:39:39,838
Speaker 1: the most difficult staff to hit in the history.

869
00:39:39,558 --> 00:39:40,598
Speaker 2: Of Major League Baseball.

870
00:39:40,718 --> 00:39:44,758
Speaker 1: Turns out that belongs to the nineteen sixty eight Cleveland team. Now,

871
00:39:44,798 --> 00:39:47,238
Speaker 1: nobody hit in nineteen sixty eight. That's when they had

872
00:39:47,238 --> 00:39:49,758
Speaker 1: to change the rules, lower the mound, change the strike zone.

873
00:39:49,878 --> 00:39:51,998
Speaker 1: It was just a dearth of offense in baseball at

874
00:39:52,038 --> 00:39:54,798
Speaker 1: the time. But they did have Sam McDowell and Luis

875
00:39:54,878 --> 00:39:58,758
Speaker 1: Tiang combined to make almost seventy starts.

876
00:39:58,358 --> 00:40:01,718
Speaker 2: For that team. I mean, they were both excellent. But anyway,

877
00:40:01,798 --> 00:40:03,918
Speaker 2: that's the toughest staff to hit. And I'm talent you.

878
00:40:04,118 --> 00:40:07,118
Speaker 1: I look at this Dodger's staff right now, and it

879
00:40:07,158 --> 00:40:10,958
Speaker 1: is an embarrassment of riches. Tanner Scott is you know

880
00:40:11,078 --> 00:40:15,118
Speaker 1: last year his fastball was the most difficult fastball to hit.

881
00:40:15,598 --> 00:40:19,478
Speaker 1: It had the lowest slugging percentage of any individual pitch

882
00:40:19,518 --> 00:40:22,318
Speaker 1: in all of baseball. And then you have Sasaki, who

883
00:40:22,718 --> 00:40:26,478
Speaker 1: who throws like ninety seven ninety eight with a wipeout split.

884
00:40:26,678 --> 00:40:29,198
Speaker 1: Now he's been treated with kid gloves over there in Japan.

885
00:40:29,278 --> 00:40:31,838
Speaker 1: His innings high as one hundred and twenty nine. It

886
00:40:31,838 --> 00:40:34,078
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. If you watch this guy pitch, He's six

887
00:40:34,078 --> 00:40:36,878
Speaker 1: foot four, he's extremely athletic. He reminds me of a

888
00:40:36,918 --> 00:40:39,758
Speaker 1: young Zach Wheeler. I mean, he's got that kind of

889
00:40:39,798 --> 00:40:43,158
Speaker 1: ability to dominate. So now the Dodgers have Oh yeah,

890
00:40:43,198 --> 00:40:46,878
Speaker 1: Otani is back pitching, and you've got Tyler Glass. Now

891
00:40:46,918 --> 00:40:50,358
Speaker 1: you've got Blake Snell, You've got Yeshinobu Yamamoto. That's just

892
00:40:50,398 --> 00:40:53,758
Speaker 1: the rotation now with Sasaki there, and the Dodgers will

893
00:40:53,798 --> 00:40:55,918
Speaker 1: probably have none of those guys throw more than about

894
00:40:55,918 --> 00:40:58,358
Speaker 1: one hundred and forty innings. They will just divide this up,

895
00:40:58,478 --> 00:41:00,758
Speaker 1: make sure they get to October with at least three

896
00:41:01,038 --> 00:41:04,318
Speaker 1: of the top five starting pitchers healthy. And Joe, I

897
00:41:04,358 --> 00:41:06,918
Speaker 1: don't know about you, but if that happens, and I

898
00:41:06,998 --> 00:41:09,758
Speaker 1: know that sample size means anything can happen the postseason,

899
00:41:09,878 --> 00:41:13,158
Speaker 1: I don't see anybody getting through the Dodgers with that team.

900
00:41:13,598 --> 00:41:15,638
Speaker 2: Your take on the Dodgers and how good they are.

901
00:41:15,718 --> 00:41:18,198
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you just summed it up pretty well.

902
00:41:18,238 --> 00:41:20,158
Speaker 3: And I just read today where Kirby as may be

903
00:41:20,238 --> 00:41:21,558
Speaker 3: going there also, is that true?

904
00:41:21,798 --> 00:41:22,678
Speaker 4: Yeah?

905
00:41:22,798 --> 00:41:25,278
Speaker 1: He had an unbelievable year last year. They're a little

906
00:41:25,278 --> 00:41:27,558
Speaker 1: bit concerned about Michael Kopek. He's got a little bit

907
00:41:27,598 --> 00:41:30,878
Speaker 1: of a forum inflammation, but yeah, why not?

908
00:41:31,198 --> 00:41:33,958
Speaker 3: Well, I had Kirby with the Rays and even because

909
00:41:34,358 --> 00:41:36,238
Speaker 3: you still really are you in his favorite back in

910
00:41:36,278 --> 00:41:38,878
Speaker 3: the day. I really like this guy at that time,

911
00:41:38,918 --> 00:41:41,158
Speaker 3: maybe like a little bit jitterate moments, but he's really

912
00:41:41,678 --> 00:41:44,318
Speaker 3: figured it out with the split whatever that thing is

913
00:41:44,318 --> 00:41:46,518
Speaker 3: that he's thrown, and then he started to command his

914
00:41:46,558 --> 00:41:49,878
Speaker 3: fastball better. So yes, And as you're saying all this,

915
00:41:50,158 --> 00:41:52,838
Speaker 3: yes they are the best team. And as you're saying

916
00:41:52,878 --> 00:41:56,558
Speaker 3: all this, I just wrote down my one note to

917
00:41:56,638 --> 00:42:00,318
Speaker 3: myself if I'm working against them, and the work my

918
00:42:00,438 --> 00:42:03,598
Speaker 3: notes says, take chances to try to beat these guys

919
00:42:03,638 --> 00:42:07,638
Speaker 3: and can conventional terms or just just like if you're

920
00:42:07,678 --> 00:42:10,278
Speaker 3: the Podrais and approach them as though they're the Rockies

921
00:42:10,398 --> 00:42:13,918
Speaker 3: or the Diamondbacks or whatever. Ain't gonna happen. You have

922
00:42:13,958 --> 00:42:15,798
Speaker 3: to really sit down. And I'm not saying try to

923
00:42:15,798 --> 00:42:18,798
Speaker 3: get too smart about this, but I'm just saying, be

924
00:42:18,798 --> 00:42:21,398
Speaker 3: a little bit more unconventional. Take chances when you play

925
00:42:21,438 --> 00:42:25,678
Speaker 3: these guys, whether that's run more often, that's more chances

926
00:42:25,678 --> 00:42:29,358
Speaker 3: on defense, really being aggressive and shifts, et cetera. I

927
00:42:29,398 --> 00:42:30,958
Speaker 3: know you can't shift on the other side, but really

928
00:42:30,998 --> 00:42:33,918
Speaker 3: aggressive where you might place people bunny for hits, hit

929
00:42:33,958 --> 00:42:37,398
Speaker 3: and runs, whatever things that are non conventional things, make

930
00:42:37,438 --> 00:42:41,198
Speaker 3: them think, make them move, make them uncomfortable, because if

931
00:42:41,198 --> 00:42:43,198
Speaker 3: you trust try to beat them at the normal game

932
00:42:43,238 --> 00:42:45,438
Speaker 3: of baseball that they're playing, and try to match up

933
00:42:45,438 --> 00:42:48,238
Speaker 3: with all these people, it's like it's like playing a

934
00:42:48,238 --> 00:42:51,918
Speaker 3: great summertime team. Like back in the day collegiately, if

935
00:42:51,918 --> 00:42:54,238
Speaker 3: you're with us, with the Boulder Collegians or the gold

936
00:42:54,278 --> 00:42:59,398
Speaker 3: Panners from Alaska, Lacier Pilots, Anchorage or Liberal, you know,

937
00:42:59,438 --> 00:43:01,718
Speaker 3: with all these different summer teams, it would all stack

938
00:43:01,798 --> 00:43:03,998
Speaker 3: up and you have all these great names, and you

939
00:43:04,118 --> 00:43:07,598
Speaker 3: have these dominant teams collegiate teams back then that you

940
00:43:07,718 --> 00:43:10,518
Speaker 3: just knew that nobody could beat you. You knew nobody

941
00:43:10,558 --> 00:43:13,078
Speaker 3: could beat you. We were stacked with guys from Texas, Oklahoma,

942
00:43:13,358 --> 00:43:14,998
Speaker 3: the USC and of course Lafayette.

943
00:43:15,318 --> 00:43:18,438
Speaker 4: So you just you had these teams that were stacked.

944
00:43:18,438 --> 00:43:21,558
Speaker 3: They're like a really really good summer league team put

945
00:43:21,638 --> 00:43:24,638
Speaker 3: together by Baldy Musquete, just bringing in guys from everywhere.

946
00:43:24,998 --> 00:43:28,558
Speaker 3: So that's what you're up against. So you cannot just

947
00:43:28,638 --> 00:43:32,278
Speaker 3: go after them in normal terms or needs. You got

948
00:43:32,318 --> 00:43:34,878
Speaker 3: to think this is where the outside the box really

949
00:43:34,918 --> 00:43:35,478
Speaker 3: does matter.

950
00:43:35,998 --> 00:43:38,198
Speaker 4: And yes, I'm int to do simple better.

951
00:43:38,278 --> 00:43:42,078
Speaker 3: I'm into simplification absolutely, but why you're working from that,

952
00:43:42,278 --> 00:43:45,998
Speaker 3: and you definitely need to approach this first. First of all,

953
00:43:45,998 --> 00:43:47,718
Speaker 3: what's gonna happen is, oh, we can't beat them. The

954
00:43:47,758 --> 00:43:50,158
Speaker 3: Dodgers are the best. I heard that with the Cardinals

955
00:43:50,398 --> 00:43:51,838
Speaker 3: when I was at the Cubs. I heard that with

956
00:43:51,878 --> 00:43:53,798
Speaker 3: the Yankees and the Red Sox, and I was with

957
00:43:53,838 --> 00:43:55,678
Speaker 3: the Rays. You hear that crap all the time.

958
00:43:55,758 --> 00:43:56,198
Speaker 4: Think about it.

959
00:43:56,198 --> 00:43:58,878
Speaker 3: I mean, you're talking about the Dodgers in these terms,

960
00:43:58,918 --> 00:44:01,918
Speaker 3: which is accurate. Just imagine being with the Rays back

961
00:44:01,998 --> 00:44:03,598
Speaker 3: in the day. Look at those teams, at the Rays,

962
00:44:03,958 --> 00:44:06,318
Speaker 3: the Red Sox and the Yankees had and that two

963
00:44:06,358 --> 00:44:09,358
Speaker 3: thousand and six to twenty ten fifteen kind of a

964
00:44:09,478 --> 00:44:13,558
Speaker 3: window or timeframe really good. And so if you go

965
00:44:13,638 --> 00:44:16,158
Speaker 3: into with that mindset that it's they're so good and

966
00:44:16,198 --> 00:44:18,398
Speaker 3: we can't beat them, you know what, it's going to

967
00:44:18,398 --> 00:44:21,518
Speaker 3: be a self fulfilling prophecy. So I'm on the other

968
00:44:21,598 --> 00:44:23,438
Speaker 3: side of this when when I hear all this stuff

969
00:44:23,438 --> 00:44:25,278
Speaker 3: about how good they are, how do you beat them?

970
00:44:25,838 --> 00:44:27,438
Speaker 3: That's that would be my first thought, how do you

971
00:44:27,478 --> 00:44:29,118
Speaker 3: beat them? What's going to take to beat them. What

972
00:44:29,198 --> 00:44:31,398
Speaker 3: kind of approach, what kind of players, what kind of

973
00:44:31,438 --> 00:44:33,038
Speaker 3: game do you have to play to beat these guys?

974
00:44:33,118 --> 00:44:34,238
Speaker 4: And that's where I would start.

975
00:44:34,678 --> 00:44:37,358
Speaker 1: I love that theory, Joe, and I use that all

976
00:44:37,398 --> 00:44:40,198
Speaker 1: the time when I see football teams, especially college football teams.

977
00:44:40,238 --> 00:44:44,838
Speaker 1: There's sometimes there's such a physical difference between those teams

978
00:44:45,278 --> 00:44:47,598
Speaker 1: that if you're the lesser team and you go up

979
00:44:47,638 --> 00:44:50,398
Speaker 1: against another team and expect to beat them straight up,

980
00:44:50,678 --> 00:44:52,958
Speaker 1: it ain't happening. So you're going to have to use

981
00:44:52,958 --> 00:44:55,638
Speaker 1: some junk defenses, put in some trick plays, throw in

982
00:44:55,678 --> 00:44:58,198
Speaker 1: some wrinkles that the other team hasn't prepared for. You're

983
00:44:58,198 --> 00:45:00,438
Speaker 1: not beating them straight up. So I love that theory.

984
00:45:00,958 --> 00:45:02,918
Speaker 2: The difficulty about getting through the.

985
00:45:02,838 --> 00:45:04,878
Speaker 1: Dodgers, the way I see it reminds me of the

986
00:45:04,958 --> 00:45:07,718
Speaker 1: Yankees in those years when they were winning something like

987
00:45:07,798 --> 00:45:12,318
Speaker 1: seventeen out a nineteen postseason series. Their rotation was so

988
00:45:12,598 --> 00:45:16,358
Speaker 1: deep that they could match up their number four against

989
00:45:16,398 --> 00:45:19,638
Speaker 1: your number one and it was at worst a draw.

990
00:45:19,918 --> 00:45:22,958
Speaker 1: A lot of the postseason is about, once it gets rolling,

991
00:45:23,438 --> 00:45:24,798
Speaker 1: how the rotations fall.

992
00:45:24,878 --> 00:45:25,798
Speaker 2: Did you sweep through.

993
00:45:25,638 --> 00:45:29,078
Speaker 1: The first round so you keep guys on term, do

994
00:45:29,118 --> 00:45:30,558
Speaker 1: you get pushed to the limit. Now you have to

995
00:45:30,598 --> 00:45:32,678
Speaker 1: start the next series with your number three against their

996
00:45:32,718 --> 00:45:33,318
Speaker 1: number one.

997
00:45:33,518 --> 00:45:35,998
Speaker 2: It never mattered with the Yankees, whether.

998
00:45:35,798 --> 00:45:40,598
Speaker 1: It was you know, Clemens Wells, Elduke gave Messina, any

999
00:45:40,678 --> 00:45:42,878
Speaker 1: one of those guys could match up against your number

1000
00:45:42,878 --> 00:45:45,158
Speaker 1: one and it would be a draw. And that's the

1001
00:45:45,158 --> 00:45:48,118
Speaker 1: way I feel about the Dodgers now with this rotation.

1002
00:45:48,278 --> 00:45:50,478
Speaker 1: Now again, who knows how many of those guys are

1003
00:45:50,518 --> 00:45:51,878
Speaker 1: gonna be healthy by the time you get to the

1004
00:45:51,878 --> 00:45:54,518
Speaker 1: seventh month. But I'm telling you, the Dodgers are going

1005
00:45:54,558 --> 00:45:58,518
Speaker 1: to manage, and I mean manage their entire season with

1006
00:45:58,638 --> 00:46:01,558
Speaker 1: their foot off the pedal on all of these guys.

1007
00:46:01,638 --> 00:46:04,438
Speaker 1: I mean the Garrett First of all, the books have

1008
00:46:04,518 --> 00:46:06,998
Speaker 1: them at one hundred and three wins for an over

1009
00:46:07,118 --> 00:46:09,758
Speaker 1: under it that is ridiculously high. You just don't see

1010
00:46:09,758 --> 00:46:11,598
Speaker 1: a number like that, but it tells you how good

1011
00:46:11,638 --> 00:46:13,558
Speaker 1: this team, how great this team is. So they will

1012
00:46:13,598 --> 00:46:16,638
Speaker 1: do everything they can to limit usage six man rotation,

1013
00:46:16,798 --> 00:46:19,838
Speaker 1: having guys go on glorified vacations for a week or two.

1014
00:46:20,238 --> 00:46:22,238
Speaker 1: All that's going to happen with this Dodger team. It's

1015
00:46:22,278 --> 00:46:24,838
Speaker 1: a very smart group and I don't want to hear

1016
00:46:24,918 --> 00:46:27,638
Speaker 1: Joe all these fans complaining that Dodgers are getting all

1017
00:46:27,638 --> 00:46:30,358
Speaker 1: these guys because they're deferring all this money. There's no

1018
00:46:30,478 --> 00:46:34,278
Speaker 1: subterfuge to this. It's perfectly legal what they're doing. They

1019
00:46:34,318 --> 00:46:36,678
Speaker 1: have more than a billion dollars, that's what it be.

1020
00:46:37,038 --> 00:46:41,438
Speaker 1: A billion dollars that they're pushing down the road. It's

1021
00:46:41,558 --> 00:46:44,718
Speaker 1: because it's a smart thing for them to do, and

1022
00:46:44,798 --> 00:46:47,398
Speaker 1: if you think about how they can do it. They're

1023
00:46:47,438 --> 00:46:52,478
Speaker 1: owned by Googgenheim Investments, which has more than three hundred

1024
00:46:52,798 --> 00:46:56,718
Speaker 1: billion dollars of deferred investments that they push down. This

1025
00:46:56,758 --> 00:47:00,158
Speaker 1: is what they do. They're in insurance, they're in investing.

1026
00:47:00,398 --> 00:47:03,078
Speaker 1: This is nothing for them to push a billion dollars

1027
00:47:03,118 --> 00:47:06,398
Speaker 1: down the road. So listen, give them credit because they've

1028
00:47:06,398 --> 00:47:09,118
Speaker 1: built an organization that if you want to compete, and

1029
00:47:09,238 --> 00:47:10,798
Speaker 1: mostly every athlete does.

1030
00:47:10,878 --> 00:47:12,518
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's about the money, but they all want a

1031
00:47:12,598 --> 00:47:14,838
Speaker 2: chance to win the World Series. The Dodgers are your

1032
00:47:14,878 --> 00:47:16,518
Speaker 2: best chance for that to happen.

1033
00:47:16,558 --> 00:47:19,958
Speaker 1: They've won ninety eight games at least every full season

1034
00:47:19,998 --> 00:47:22,238
Speaker 1: here for the last five six years. So if you

1035
00:47:22,318 --> 00:47:24,478
Speaker 1: want to compete for a world championship and you want

1036
00:47:24,478 --> 00:47:27,678
Speaker 1: the best in technology and instruction you're going to sign

1037
00:47:27,718 --> 00:47:28,318
Speaker 1: with the Dodgers.

1038
00:47:28,398 --> 00:47:29,878
Speaker 2: I don't hold that against them.

1039
00:47:30,118 --> 00:47:32,438
Speaker 4: Yeah, but David did beat Goliath, you know.

1040
00:47:32,558 --> 00:47:35,758
Speaker 3: And that's the thing that I've always enjoyed being in

1041
00:47:35,798 --> 00:47:38,918
Speaker 3: somewhat of an underdog role in different situations. And I

1042
00:47:38,918 --> 00:47:42,918
Speaker 3: think it should be creativity. In regards to creativity, it

1043
00:47:42,918 --> 00:47:46,918
Speaker 3: should bring out the best in you if you are,

1044
00:47:47,518 --> 00:47:50,238
Speaker 3: I think, primarily not afraid to make a mistake, primarily

1045
00:47:50,278 --> 00:47:53,998
Speaker 3: not afraid to do something differently, take chances. I think

1046
00:47:53,998 --> 00:47:56,038
Speaker 3: if you look at the Detroit Lions, I think there ascension.

1047
00:47:56,438 --> 00:47:58,678
Speaker 3: A lot of it has to do with a little

1048
00:47:58,678 --> 00:48:02,238
Speaker 3: bit outside the box. Their skipper Campbell, how he reacts

1049
00:48:02,278 --> 00:48:06,838
Speaker 3: to situations. I think they been heavily supported thereby analytics

1050
00:48:06,918 --> 00:48:09,198
Speaker 3: in the sense and when it came to their decision making,

1051
00:48:09,318 --> 00:48:12,558
Speaker 3: because part of the fearlessness there is that if the

1052
00:48:12,598 --> 00:48:15,758
Speaker 3: decision is backed by your analytical department upstairs and it

1053
00:48:15,798 --> 00:48:18,438
Speaker 3: doesn't work, you're still going to be fine. You're still

1054
00:48:18,438 --> 00:48:21,678
Speaker 3: gonna be okay. Nobody nobody's gonna get breathing down your

1055
00:48:21,678 --> 00:48:25,038
Speaker 3: back and suggesting that you're doing anything wrong. So there's

1056
00:48:25,038 --> 00:48:28,118
Speaker 3: a union there between what they've done. There's and it's

1057
00:48:28,158 --> 00:48:31,278
Speaker 3: really lent to the fearless nature of how they play

1058
00:48:31,318 --> 00:48:33,198
Speaker 3: the game. So for me, the team that's going to

1059
00:48:33,238 --> 00:48:36,318
Speaker 3: beat the Dodgers, there's got to be a fearless component

1060
00:48:36,358 --> 00:48:37,598
Speaker 3: to what you do and how you do it. It

1061
00:48:37,678 --> 00:48:41,238
Speaker 3: cannot be cookie cutter, cannot be as everybody else.

1062
00:48:41,278 --> 00:48:43,198
Speaker 4: You cannot be worried about making mistakes.

1063
00:48:43,598 --> 00:48:46,638
Speaker 3: You never be worried about taking chances, and you definitely

1064
00:48:46,638 --> 00:48:48,598
Speaker 3: have to go outside the box in order to do it.

1065
00:48:48,598 --> 00:48:50,078
Speaker 4: It's just the way, just the fact.

1066
00:48:50,118 --> 00:48:51,958
Speaker 3: And also the Dodgers, you know, they're pretty good at

1067
00:48:51,998 --> 00:48:54,598
Speaker 3: developing too, so it's not just about these acquisitions.

1068
00:48:54,878 --> 00:48:56,278
Speaker 4: They also do a nice job.

1069
00:48:56,158 --> 00:48:58,438
Speaker 3: In house and they bring up names that you've never

1070
00:48:58,438 --> 00:49:00,318
Speaker 3: heard of before they become quite successful.

1071
00:49:00,398 --> 00:49:01,598
Speaker 4: So it's a combination.

1072
00:49:01,958 --> 00:49:05,118
Speaker 3: They're utilizing all the different methods to build a team,

1073
00:49:05,358 --> 00:49:10,398
Speaker 3: whether it's acquisition, draftning, free agency, trading, whatever. They've done

1074
00:49:10,438 --> 00:49:13,358
Speaker 3: a wonderful job of bringing all those different elements together.

1075
00:49:14,038 --> 00:49:16,798
Speaker 3: So for those that are engaged in trying to beat them,

1076
00:49:17,598 --> 00:49:20,238
Speaker 3: don't be afraid of making a mistake, go after them,

1077
00:49:20,758 --> 00:49:24,118
Speaker 3: and everything's on the table and the night you're playing

1078
00:49:24,118 --> 00:49:25,878
Speaker 3: the Dodgers, not like it should be that way, all

1079
00:49:25,918 --> 00:49:28,598
Speaker 3: the time. But whenever you're playing the Dodgers, rock and

1080
00:49:28,678 --> 00:49:30,318
Speaker 3: roll man do not hold anything back.

1081
00:49:30,958 --> 00:49:33,758
Speaker 1: So there's already talked Joe about, you know, are they

1082
00:49:33,758 --> 00:49:35,998
Speaker 1: good for baseball? When you think about the money they spent.

1083
00:49:36,118 --> 00:49:40,358
Speaker 1: The Dodgers have more money spent committed now to future

1084
00:49:40,438 --> 00:49:45,918
Speaker 1: payments than the entire American League Central Division. So there's

1085
00:49:45,958 --> 00:49:48,878
Speaker 1: already talk that there's such an outlier in terms of

1086
00:49:48,878 --> 00:49:51,958
Speaker 1: where they're going with payroll. It'll be close to four

1087
00:49:52,038 --> 00:49:54,198
Speaker 1: hundred million this year, about three hundred and seventy five

1088
00:49:54,198 --> 00:49:57,718
Speaker 1: million dollars. This convinces at least other owners that they

1089
00:49:57,718 --> 00:50:00,838
Speaker 1: should really push for a salary cap. And anytime you

1090
00:50:00,918 --> 00:50:04,078
Speaker 1: hear about salary cap and baseball, the next thing you

1091
00:50:04,118 --> 00:50:07,638
Speaker 1: have to think about is the possibility of a work stoppage.

1092
00:50:07,758 --> 00:50:09,878
Speaker 1: You know, they've tried many times, and every time they've

1093
00:50:09,878 --> 00:50:11,558
Speaker 1: tried to get a salary cap, we've had a work

1094
00:50:11,558 --> 00:50:14,598
Speaker 1: stoppage in this game. So this's already talk about the

1095
00:50:14,598 --> 00:50:18,398
Speaker 1: twenty twenty seventh season being in jeopardy. The CBA runs

1096
00:50:18,398 --> 00:50:21,118
Speaker 1: through the twenty sixth season. I'm not ready to go

1097
00:50:21,198 --> 00:50:24,318
Speaker 1: that far, especially as you said, Joe, sometimes David does

1098
00:50:24,398 --> 00:50:27,238
Speaker 1: beat Goliath. And if the Dodgers do get knocked off,

1099
00:50:27,238 --> 00:50:30,558
Speaker 1: and let's face it, last year, don't forget, Padres almost

1100
00:50:30,598 --> 00:50:32,838
Speaker 1: knocked them off. You know, they had them on the

1101
00:50:32,918 --> 00:50:36,158
Speaker 1: ropes up two games to one in that divisional series.

1102
00:50:36,558 --> 00:50:38,918
Speaker 1: So if they do get knocked off, all of a sudden,

1103
00:50:39,398 --> 00:50:41,918
Speaker 1: you know you're talking about, well, this proves that spending

1104
00:50:41,918 --> 00:50:44,478
Speaker 1: money doesn't buy you a pennant. So now it begins

1105
00:50:44,558 --> 00:50:46,118
Speaker 1: to work the other way. So let's see how it

1106
00:50:46,198 --> 00:50:49,278
Speaker 1: plays out. But just be prepared that the talk has

1107
00:50:49,358 --> 00:50:52,278
Speaker 1: begun that something needs to change because the Dodgers are

1108
00:50:52,318 --> 00:50:53,238
Speaker 1: too good for baseball.

1109
00:50:53,278 --> 00:50:54,278
Speaker 2: I don't subscribe to that.

1110
00:50:54,558 --> 00:50:56,638
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you that that's some of the chatter

1111
00:50:56,718 --> 00:50:57,758
Speaker 1: that's starting up already.

1112
00:50:58,198 --> 00:51:00,038
Speaker 4: I'll tell you the regarding all that.

1113
00:51:00,038 --> 00:51:02,398
Speaker 3: That was their first full season World Series championship in

1114
00:51:02,438 --> 00:51:04,558
Speaker 3: a while, just to just you know, so we're talking

1115
00:51:04,558 --> 00:51:06,118
Speaker 3: all this, and that was that they nailed it down

1116
00:51:06,198 --> 00:51:06,638
Speaker 3: last year.

1117
00:51:06,798 --> 00:51:07,038
Speaker 2: Yep.

1118
00:51:07,478 --> 00:51:11,438
Speaker 3: And when it comes down to winning, we just describe

1119
00:51:11,438 --> 00:51:13,678
Speaker 3: the infrastructure, which is fabulous, and the amount of money,

1120
00:51:13,678 --> 00:51:16,118
Speaker 3: which is fabulous, But it really comes down to a

1121
00:51:16,198 --> 00:51:19,558
Speaker 3: Tawny Betts freeman primarily. I mean, there's a lot of

1122
00:51:19,598 --> 00:51:22,638
Speaker 3: other nice players on that team, really good players, not

1123
00:51:22,718 --> 00:51:25,278
Speaker 3: just okay. But it comes down to those three names primarily.

1124
00:51:25,918 --> 00:51:28,638
Speaker 3: So if there's any kind of letdown among those three,

1125
00:51:28,798 --> 00:51:32,838
Speaker 3: it can change dramatically, very quickly. So regardless of all

1126
00:51:32,838 --> 00:51:37,398
Speaker 3: this wonderful infrastructure what they have, which is absolutely paramount

1127
00:51:37,398 --> 00:51:40,998
Speaker 3: to success one hundred percent, but just a breakdown in

1128
00:51:41,198 --> 00:51:42,998
Speaker 3: some of this structure during the course of the year

1129
00:51:43,118 --> 00:51:46,238
Speaker 3: can really open the door for another group that just pop,

1130
00:51:46,638 --> 00:51:49,598
Speaker 3: a team that just plays like the two thousand and

1131
00:51:49,638 --> 00:51:52,158
Speaker 3: eight Rays or the twenty sixteen Cubs all of a sudden,

1132
00:51:52,398 --> 00:51:53,758
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, you get to this

1133
00:51:54,038 --> 00:51:57,598
Speaker 3: level that you had not been to before. So regardless

1134
00:51:57,638 --> 00:51:59,718
Speaker 3: of all the wonderful things we've described and talked about

1135
00:51:59,758 --> 00:52:01,678
Speaker 3: today and how great they are and how they got

1136
00:52:01,718 --> 00:52:03,158
Speaker 3: it set up just right and they got the money

1137
00:52:03,198 --> 00:52:04,918
Speaker 3: to back them up, it's really.

1138
00:52:04,718 --> 00:52:05,398
Speaker 4: About the players.

1139
00:52:05,678 --> 00:52:08,918
Speaker 3: So you got players of that magnitude. If things break down,

1140
00:52:09,038 --> 00:52:12,238
Speaker 3: it can change somewhat quickly or dramatically at least for

1141
00:52:12,278 --> 00:52:12,758
Speaker 3: one year.

1142
00:52:13,198 --> 00:52:13,958
Speaker 4: So that's it.

1143
00:52:14,038 --> 00:52:16,358
Speaker 3: I mean, if I'm on the outside looking in within

1144
00:52:16,438 --> 00:52:19,838
Speaker 3: the No West, I'm looking at all those different variables

1145
00:52:20,158 --> 00:52:21,558
Speaker 3: and I'm prepping for all that stuff.

1146
00:52:21,558 --> 00:52:23,558
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, man, go for it.

1147
00:52:23,638 --> 00:52:26,398
Speaker 3: If you're not the Dodgers, you're in that group, just

1148
00:52:27,038 --> 00:52:29,758
Speaker 3: be prepared to play them with your method, your style,

1149
00:52:30,398 --> 00:52:32,678
Speaker 3: and you look for your little practice in the armor

1150
00:52:33,438 --> 00:52:35,518
Speaker 3: that they may have and really try to exploit that

1151
00:52:35,558 --> 00:52:36,238
Speaker 3: as well as you can.

1152
00:52:36,358 --> 00:52:37,598
Speaker 2: It's probably love this game.

1153
00:52:37,998 --> 00:52:40,718
Speaker 1: Whether you're one hundred and twenty pounds or three hundred pounds,

1154
00:52:41,478 --> 00:52:43,918
Speaker 1: or whether you're in a small market or a big market.

1155
00:52:44,438 --> 00:52:46,958
Speaker 2: You know, the outcome is never guaranteed.

1156
00:52:47,118 --> 00:52:51,318
Speaker 1: So I think the odds are that given a choice

1157
00:52:51,358 --> 00:52:54,958
Speaker 1: between the Dodgers and the field the twenty nine other teams,

1158
00:52:54,958 --> 00:52:56,958
Speaker 1: you're still better off taking the other twenty nine teams.

1159
00:52:57,038 --> 00:52:59,238
Speaker 2: This is the way baseball is. Joe.

1160
00:52:59,318 --> 00:53:01,118
Speaker 1: That brings us here to the ninth inning, and you

1161
00:53:01,238 --> 00:53:04,158
Speaker 1: are Billy Wagner, the guy I trust the cl it

1162
00:53:04,158 --> 00:53:07,038
Speaker 1: out without any drama, and you always bring us home

1163
00:53:07,078 --> 00:53:08,118
Speaker 1: with some words of wisdom.

1164
00:53:08,238 --> 00:53:09,038
Speaker 2: What do you have today?

1165
00:53:09,598 --> 00:53:12,038
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I was, you know, specifically thinking about the

1166
00:53:12,078 --> 00:53:14,358
Speaker 3: Hall of Famers. I mean you kind of like the

1167
00:53:14,398 --> 00:53:18,598
Speaker 3: way our conversation about the Dodgers probably bleeds into here

1168
00:53:18,678 --> 00:53:22,358
Speaker 3: somehow a little bit but so impressed, and you think

1169
00:53:22,398 --> 00:53:25,918
Speaker 3: about it's about a little CC growing up, or Etro

1170
00:53:26,038 --> 00:53:28,678
Speaker 3: growing up in Japan, or Billy growing up wherever he

1171
00:53:28,758 --> 00:53:32,598
Speaker 3: grew up. There's there's a lot, there's a lot of

1172
00:53:32,598 --> 00:53:34,598
Speaker 3: there's dreaming going on. There's a lot of dreaming going on,

1173
00:53:34,678 --> 00:53:38,718
Speaker 3: and you really want to eventually arrive at this particular juncture.

1174
00:53:39,838 --> 00:53:41,598
Speaker 3: So for those that they're to dream of becoming a

1175
00:53:41,598 --> 00:53:43,998
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame baseball players just supposedly just becoming a

1176
00:53:43,998 --> 00:53:48,998
Speaker 3: baseball player. But Jack Canfield chicken was a chicken soup

1177
00:53:48,998 --> 00:53:50,958
Speaker 3: for the soul. I think it was something like that.

1178
00:53:51,278 --> 00:53:53,198
Speaker 3: But he wrote everything you want is on the other

1179
00:53:53,238 --> 00:53:56,038
Speaker 3: side of fear, and then I read something else that

1180
00:53:56,118 --> 00:53:58,678
Speaker 3: I loved about that, and on the other side of fear,

1181
00:53:58,758 --> 00:54:02,158
Speaker 3: life's freedom. And that's when we really were talking about.

1182
00:54:02,558 --> 00:54:04,638
Speaker 3: I did a gig the other day with the Montana

1183
00:54:04,678 --> 00:54:08,118
Speaker 3: girls softball team for Tyler Jeski, a friend, and these

1184
00:54:08,158 --> 00:54:11,318
Speaker 3: girls are fantastic and they were just trying to ascend

1185
00:54:11,798 --> 00:54:14,238
Speaker 3: in their division up there, and just we just went

1186
00:54:14,278 --> 00:54:16,358
Speaker 3: on and on, and I talked to them about finding

1187
00:54:16,358 --> 00:54:19,518
Speaker 3: your voice and being heard and sticking to what you

1188
00:54:19,558 --> 00:54:21,918
Speaker 3: believe in those kinds of things, and that's where the

1189
00:54:21,918 --> 00:54:22,558
Speaker 3: freedom comes.

1190
00:54:22,598 --> 00:54:23,598
Speaker 4: In finding your voice.

1191
00:54:24,038 --> 00:54:27,358
Speaker 3: Freedom is there's a certain component of freedom, a large

1192
00:54:27,398 --> 00:54:30,918
Speaker 3: component of freedom that lies within finding your voice, that

1193
00:54:30,998 --> 00:54:33,758
Speaker 3: confidence because you're no longer fearful and maybe what people

1194
00:54:33,798 --> 00:54:36,358
Speaker 3: think or how you're going to be perceived. As long

1195
00:54:36,398 --> 00:54:38,958
Speaker 3: as you're working from pure attentions, that's really a good

1196
00:54:38,998 --> 00:54:39,998
Speaker 3: place to exist.

1197
00:54:40,078 --> 00:54:41,638
Speaker 4: So I thought that was it.

1198
00:54:41,958 --> 00:54:44,238
Speaker 3: The other everything you want is on the other side

1199
00:54:44,278 --> 00:54:46,758
Speaker 3: of fear, and you've got to get past that. And

1200
00:54:46,798 --> 00:54:50,318
Speaker 3: then once you do, you really feel free and unlocked

1201
00:54:50,918 --> 00:54:51,958
Speaker 3: and able.

1202
00:54:51,678 --> 00:54:53,398
Speaker 4: To almost accomplish anything.

1203
00:54:53,998 --> 00:54:55,998
Speaker 3: And so for all the other teams in the n

1204
00:54:56,078 --> 00:54:57,958
Speaker 3: O West, get on the other side of fear man

1205
00:54:58,318 --> 00:55:02,638
Speaker 3: and that's where freedom lies. And so it's a combination

1206
00:55:02,798 --> 00:55:06,158
Speaker 3: of wanting to become a Hall of Famer and having

1207
00:55:06,158 --> 00:55:07,758
Speaker 3: to get on the other side of fears. As you're

1208
00:55:07,798 --> 00:55:10,518
Speaker 3: ascending to be in the nl West to try to

1209
00:55:10,558 --> 00:55:13,038
Speaker 3: beat the Dodgers, you got to get to that freedom.

1210
00:55:13,118 --> 00:55:16,918
Speaker 3: That the freedom of thought and the ability to think

1211
00:55:17,078 --> 00:55:19,438
Speaker 3: as your own as an organization and not trying to

1212
00:55:19,478 --> 00:55:22,478
Speaker 3: become part of the industry and always settling for the

1213
00:55:22,518 --> 00:55:25,438
Speaker 3: norms of the group. Right now as an industry, circle

1214
00:55:25,478 --> 00:55:27,198
Speaker 3: your own wagons and go beat to Dodgers.

1215
00:55:27,478 --> 00:55:29,198
Speaker 2: I love those words of wisdom, Joe.

1216
00:55:29,238 --> 00:55:31,878
Speaker 1: And as you were saying those, I thought about two

1217
00:55:31,918 --> 00:55:35,998
Speaker 1: guys that each Hero and Derek Jeter to me, two

1218
00:55:36,038 --> 00:55:38,118
Speaker 1: guys that really stand out, not the only ones, but

1219
00:55:38,158 --> 00:55:40,478
Speaker 1: the ones that really stand out where they had no

1220
00:55:40,918 --> 00:55:45,198
Speaker 1: fear of consequence, no fear of failure. That idea of

1221
00:55:45,238 --> 00:55:48,238
Speaker 1: what happens if I don't get a hit there never

1222
00:55:48,438 --> 00:55:52,038
Speaker 1: enter their mind. And it's such a special mindset. And

1223
00:55:52,198 --> 00:55:54,838
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about use of the word freedom to

1224
00:55:54,878 --> 00:55:57,998
Speaker 1: describe it, but you're absolutely right. There is a freedom

1225
00:55:58,038 --> 00:55:59,038
Speaker 1: associated with that.

1226
00:55:59,558 --> 00:55:59,758
Speaker 2: You know.

1227
00:55:59,838 --> 00:56:02,118
Speaker 1: Derek used to tell me, you know, if I don't

1228
00:56:02,158 --> 00:56:04,878
Speaker 1: get a hit, I'll just get it next time. What's

1229
00:56:04,918 --> 00:56:06,878
Speaker 1: so bad about not getting hit this time? I'll get

1230
00:56:06,918 --> 00:56:09,798
Speaker 1: it next time? And he truly truly believed that. It

1231
00:56:09,838 --> 00:56:12,598
Speaker 1: wasn't some mind game that he played. Whether that's a gift,

1232
00:56:12,678 --> 00:56:15,678
Speaker 1: whether that's a learned trait, I don't know. But I

1233
00:56:15,798 --> 00:56:19,158
Speaker 1: love the fact that you attached that word freedom to

1234
00:56:19,198 --> 00:56:20,118
Speaker 1: the absence of fear.

1235
00:56:20,278 --> 00:56:20,958
Speaker 2: Love it.

1236
00:56:20,958 --> 00:56:22,958
Speaker 4: It's just another word for nothing left to lose.

1237
00:56:23,038 --> 00:56:24,758
Speaker 2: Didn't she say that does sound familiar?

1238
00:56:24,878 --> 00:56:27,638
Speaker 4: Chopolin's right. I mean, I've always loved that line.

1239
00:56:27,838 --> 00:56:30,918
Speaker 3: You know, as a young man growing up, and you know,

1240
00:56:30,998 --> 00:56:33,398
Speaker 3: eventually becoming a major league manager, had to overcome a

1241
00:56:33,398 --> 00:56:36,558
Speaker 3: lot of fears just about putting myself out there, speaking

1242
00:56:36,558 --> 00:56:38,718
Speaker 3: in front of large groups and telling them what you

1243
00:56:38,758 --> 00:56:40,678
Speaker 3: think of what's on your mind, and having have the

1244
00:56:40,758 --> 00:56:43,518
Speaker 3: confidence or conviction and the words that you're saying to

1245
00:56:43,558 --> 00:56:45,718
Speaker 3: the point where you say it, you say them with

1246
00:56:45,798 --> 00:56:49,678
Speaker 3: strength and conviction. It's easy to say them in your

1247
00:56:49,718 --> 00:56:51,798
Speaker 3: own room, where you're driving your car or whatever is

1248
00:56:51,838 --> 00:56:53,838
Speaker 3: you're lying in bed at night thinking of all these

1249
00:56:53,878 --> 00:56:56,678
Speaker 3: clever things to say, but it's a different feeling or

1250
00:56:56,718 --> 00:56:59,438
Speaker 3: method to be able to say it actually in the

1251
00:56:59,438 --> 00:57:01,918
Speaker 3: moment when it really is going to count matter and

1252
00:57:01,958 --> 00:57:03,878
Speaker 3: the moment you arrive at that point and you know

1253
00:57:04,038 --> 00:57:04,718
Speaker 3: what it feels like.

1254
00:57:05,158 --> 00:57:07,718
Speaker 4: There's a freedom about that. And when you arrive at your.

1255
00:57:07,598 --> 00:57:11,358
Speaker 3: Own personal freedom to express yourself, then do you truly

1256
00:57:11,398 --> 00:57:12,158
Speaker 3: become all that.

1257
00:57:12,158 --> 00:57:12,678
Speaker 4: You can be?

1258
00:57:13,158 --> 00:57:13,558
Speaker 2: Love it?

1259
00:57:13,798 --> 00:57:16,598
Speaker 1: Cool stuff as always, Joe, this is fine. We'll see

1260
00:57:16,598 --> 00:57:17,798
Speaker 1: you next time on the Book of Joe.

1261
00:57:17,838 --> 00:57:19,598
Speaker 4: All right, temm, you have a great cold week.

1262
00:57:27,038 --> 00:57:30,238
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1263
00:57:30,478 --> 00:57:35,358
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1264
00:57:35,598 --> 00:57:37,358
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.