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Speaker 1: Y'all. Tonight, we have a legend. Matt Murphy is with us.

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Speaker 1: He is a legal analyst for ABC News. He's a

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Speaker 1: former homicide prosecutor, and y'all, he's spent over twenty years

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Speaker 1: prosecuting homicides, violent sex cases, all with the Orange County

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Speaker 1: DA's office. He's, you know, prosecuted some pretty notable cases,

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Speaker 1: some were cold cases. He's done famous serial killer cases,

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Speaker 1: no body cases, you name it, if it came out

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Speaker 1: of that office, he had his hands on it.

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Speaker 2: You know him from.

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Speaker 1: ABC obviously, but you've also seen him on twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: Good Morning America I Crime with Elizabeth Fargas.

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Speaker 2: He's also is an.

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Speaker 1: Avid surfer and one thing I want to talk to

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Speaker 1: him about. He's a sharp diver, because you know, his

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Speaker 1: life wasn't risky enough going to crime scenes, running up

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Speaker 1: down the street with you know, detectives on homicide cases

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Speaker 1: and mafia cases and you know, different things with serial

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Speaker 1: killers and all y'all. He loves to also paint, which

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Speaker 1: I did not know about him. Several of y'all have

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Speaker 1: been with me at crime con where he has taken

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Speaker 1: the stage and flat shown off.

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Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan, not just a friend.

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Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan, So y'all help me welcome Matt

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Speaker 1: Murphy to his own seventh Thank.

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Speaker 3: You very much.

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Speaker 1: Well, I've been looking forward to this because you know,

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Speaker 1: there's one thing I left out.

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Speaker 2: And we're gonna get to it in a minute, y'all.

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Speaker 2: But I left out a real important thing that he's

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Speaker 2: got on his resume too. But if we could.

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Speaker 1: I always liked when I talked to prosecutor or veteran detectives,

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Speaker 1: I like to know your process.

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Speaker 2: How do you take.

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Speaker 1: On a cold case, Matt, Like, what is your first

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Speaker 1: thing when you get in on your desk?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that when when I was working those cases.

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Speaker 3: So Orange County is a vertical system, so it's it's

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Speaker 3: a little bit different than most DAIS offices. So I

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Speaker 3: had a patch in the county basically, So I had

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Speaker 3: the cities at the coast of Mesa, Laguna, Newport Beach,

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Speaker 3: and Irvine. So any murders that happened in any one

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Speaker 3: of the cities was automatically assigned to me and I'd

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Speaker 3: roll out, you know, with my assigned da investigator to

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Speaker 3: whatever whatever crime scenes. You know, we got the calls

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Speaker 3: calls on But after about five years, I became one

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Speaker 3: of the two cold case deputies, so that gave me

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Speaker 3: the whole county. And the first step in working a

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Speaker 3: good cold case is getting a good detective on it.

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Speaker 3: So when you have a detective who really is interested

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Speaker 3: in the case or in in the from the DA side,

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Speaker 3: I worked with the guy for years named Larry Montgomery,

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Speaker 3: and he was just the man who was born to

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Speaker 3: soft cold cases. And from there, what you do is

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Speaker 3: you go down to the police department with your investigator

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Speaker 3: and whoever the lead detective is from that agency, and

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Speaker 3: you roll up your sleeves and you go to work.

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Speaker 3: You pull out these old boxes and they're kind of

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Speaker 3: like time capsules, and you never know what you're going

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Speaker 3: to find in those boxes. In fact, we had one

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Speaker 3: case where we opened the box from a nineteen seventy

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Speaker 3: five murder out of Santa Monica and we popped the

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Speaker 3: box open and there's there's the ligature that was around

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Speaker 3: the victim's neck sitting right there in this cardboard box

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Speaker 3: which we submitted for DNA and lo and behold our suspects.

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Speaker 3: DNA was all over it.

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Speaker 2: That is amazing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you never know what you're going to find. When

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Speaker 3: you do that, and for a lot of those cool cases,

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Speaker 3: you're you're looking for things to test like that ligature.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes there might be a piece of evidence that you

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Speaker 3: know that if the case predated, you know, modern forensic

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Speaker 3: science and DNA and all that sort of thing. Everyone's smiled.

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Speaker 3: You'll get lucky because you'll find, you know, an article

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Speaker 3: of clothing or maybe a weapon that was never swabbed

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Speaker 3: for DNA. Those forensic scientists are amazing and the stuff

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Speaker 3: that they can that they can find is amazing. And

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Speaker 3: then after that, sometimes you don't get that hit, and

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Speaker 3: then you it's just sort of a new set of eyes.

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Speaker 3: You're looking for any sort of new evidence you can

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Speaker 3: generate and see what you know, what you can do

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Speaker 3: on a case that's been passed over. You know that

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Speaker 3: it's previously been submitted and refused, and it's it's an

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Speaker 3: incredibly satisfying experience to you know, look at some murder

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Speaker 3: that was you know, five, ten, fifteen years later or

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Speaker 3: fifteen years earlier, and somebody will have gotten away with it.

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Speaker 3: And it is if you can build those things and

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Speaker 3: put them together and charge those killers, it is awesome.

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Speaker 2: It's a great fel Yeah, it's a.

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Speaker 3: Great feeling and it may sound cornery, but it's all

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Speaker 3: about bringing justice to the victims' families. It really is

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Speaker 3: the only thing we're some losing a loved one is

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Speaker 3: losing a love under murder, And the only thing worre

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Speaker 3: some losing a love under murder is when the killer

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Speaker 3: gets away with it. So it's incredibly important to those

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Speaker 3: families to have somebody on their side.

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Speaker 1: You know, the thing that I left off your resume

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Speaker 1: was you are now an author, and you know I

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Speaker 1: got your book and it's called for everybody listening, The

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Speaker 1: Book of Murder, a Prosecutor's Journey through Love and death.

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Speaker 2: Now, Matt, I got.

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Speaker 1: To tell you something. I found this thing spellbinding. And

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Speaker 1: here's why you paint such a clear, accurate picture of

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Speaker 1: our world. I mean, I'm still an active CSI and

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Speaker 1: some of those scenes you were describing when you first

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Speaker 1: got there and you're walking through with your detective and

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Speaker 1: then the courtroom scenes, I was right.

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Speaker 2: There with you, Honey. This book is so good. But

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Speaker 2: I want you to.

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Speaker 1: Talk about one thing in particular, and I'm paraphrasing, but

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Speaker 1: you say in the book, each murder also offers us

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to reflect on our own lives, how fortunate.

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Speaker 2: We are to still have them.

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Speaker 1: When surrounded by death, you quickly develop a desire, a

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Speaker 1: screaming need to actually live.

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Speaker 2: Amen, brother, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, I cannot tell you enough, and I tell my

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Speaker 1: own children because sometimes they're like, Mama, you see such

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Speaker 1: bad stuff I do. But I promise you it has

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Speaker 1: made me a better mother, It's made me a better wife,

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Speaker 1: it's made me a better sister. It's made me a

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Speaker 1: better friend. Because when my children were little, if they

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Speaker 1: ever said, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, Mama, can you play with me?

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Speaker 1: I stopped what I was doing that second because I

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Speaker 1: know some people were robbed of the next second, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to have that happen to me. So

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the surfing and anything else.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to talk about about how you truly

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Speaker 1: live your life wide open?

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Speaker 2: Baby?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for saying that. No, it is. It

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Speaker 3: is one of those things, and you can certainly relate

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Speaker 3: to it if you're you know, when you're going out

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Speaker 3: there and you're doing CSI, it's like you see over

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Speaker 3: and over again, you see somebody that they had just

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Speaker 3: they had no idea that when they woke up that

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Speaker 3: day that was going to be their last morning. You know,

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Speaker 3: my first scene. And I talked a little bit about

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Speaker 3: this in the book, My very first homestead scene. You know,

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Speaker 3: I I looked at this guy and he had a

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Speaker 3: he's honest, back in the kitchen of a of a

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Speaker 3: town home. And as you know, the majority of cases

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Speaker 3: you respond to if you're working murder cases are domestics.

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Speaker 3: Domestic violence is a very it's probably the kind of

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Speaker 3: the bread and butter. So this guy is, he's on

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Speaker 3: his back in this kitchen, and I, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: my first, my first murder scene. I'm thirty three years old,

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Speaker 3: and I'd seen all those scenes on TV, you know,

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Speaker 3: where people are, you know, the the new guy always

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Speaker 3: what does he do? The new guy always throws up right,

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Speaker 3: So I didn't know if that was real. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if that was a thing. So I'm already I

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Speaker 3: looked like I'm twelve, talk my way past the perimeter

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Speaker 3: guy with the you know, yellow tape, the officer on

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Speaker 3: the perimeter, and I go in and this guy had

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Speaker 3: a had a knife in his left hand, but a

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Speaker 3: wallet chain going back to his right back pocket. So I,

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Speaker 3: you know, I get escorted in and he had moved

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Speaker 3: the body yet, and I'm you know, I'm thinking, don't puke,

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Speaker 3: don't puke, don't puke. And then as soon as I

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Speaker 3: kind of looked down at it, it was like, wait

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Speaker 3: a minute, that makes no sense. Why would have left

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Speaker 3: he have a wallet in his right back pocket or

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Speaker 3: a righty hold a knife in his left hand. So

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Speaker 3: it instantly struck me. And then my very next thought was,

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Speaker 3: I wonder if those were the last, if you had

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Speaker 3: any idea those were the last shoelaces he would ever tie.

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Speaker 3: You know, It's just the sort of the stony thoughts

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Speaker 3: that go through your head and and I, you know,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to share some of that with the jury.

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Speaker 3: So the first thing, I mean, with your your audience,

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Speaker 3: the first thing that you you know, working those cases

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Speaker 3: is you you really you You see these people whose

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Speaker 3: lives were cut short suddenly and they had no idea.

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Speaker 3: So it really does make you, you know, want to

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Speaker 3: appreciate the opportunities that you've got. And yeah, I got

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Speaker 3: into I've been surfing my whole life, but I've gotten

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Speaker 3: into diving with sharks, and number one, I want to

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Speaker 3: die with them, you know, before it's too late, you know,

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Speaker 3: because their their shark populations are threatened everywhere. But but

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Speaker 3: there is nothing that focuses your attention than being scuba

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Speaker 3: diving without a case and a big shark is swimming

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Speaker 3: up to you, or even a little shark if it's angry,

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Speaker 3: and you just have complete focus. You're not thinking about

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Speaker 3: anything else. And it's for me that has always been

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Speaker 3: a really relaxing thing. It's like surfing big waves. You

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Speaker 3: can't afford to let your mind wander too much. You've

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Speaker 3: got to really concentrate on what you're doing. But shark

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Speaker 3: diving is just a thrill. And in fact, I'm in

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Speaker 3: the process of booking a trip to Cuba in November

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Speaker 3: on a liver Board Dot trip that is supposed to

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Speaker 3: be a shark city and I can't wait.

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Speaker 2: Oh that sounds amazing.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: We also have the Wildlife CSI Academy in Atlanta, and

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Speaker 1: you know one thing that we learned when we went

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Speaker 1: over to South Africa and trained with the Wildlife Forensic

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Speaker 1: Academy is you know that shark population you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is dwindling because of poachin and.

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Speaker 2: It's just a shame it's just a shame in this world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, shark finning. Shark finning is an ecological crime against

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Speaker 3: It's truly, it's literally a crime against nature. You know,

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Speaker 3: nickil about one hundred million of them a year and

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Speaker 3: it's absolutely horrific.

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Speaker 2: It's going to change the ocean, which is going to

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Speaker 2: change the earth.

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Speaker 3: Yep, that's right, that's right. Really, all for one single.

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Speaker 1: Dish, All for one single dish, yep for shark shark

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Speaker 1: fin soup.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, insane.

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Speaker 1: But you know one thing about the book, you know

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Speaker 1: this podcast, It is called Zone seven, and the reason

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Speaker 1: that became the name of it is because Atlanta has

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Speaker 1: six police zones. So back in the day before cell phones,

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Speaker 1: if we wanted to all get together afterwards, we would say, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's five nine at Zone seven, which was Manual's tavern,

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Speaker 1: our cop bar. So Zone seven started very social, a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun. But what started to happen for me, Matt,

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Speaker 1: was the old guard that would come and tell their stories,

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Speaker 1: that would take you aside and say, hey, don't let

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Speaker 1: your temper get the best of you. I know that

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Speaker 1: this is what the sop says, but you better do

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Speaker 1: this too.

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Speaker 2: Like really help you. So those people that you began

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Speaker 2: to trust and if they.

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Speaker 1: Told you something, it was gold. I mean you could

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Speaker 1: literally take it to the bank. And there's a part

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Speaker 1: of your book where your zone seven is so clear

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Speaker 1: to me. And I don't want you to talk about

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Speaker 1: this actual part. I'm just prompting you because y'all, this

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Speaker 1: is called a teaser. So if you want to know

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Speaker 1: about it, you got to go get the book. But

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Speaker 1: in the book, you have somebody that you trust and

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Speaker 1: you take their advice the way it's meant to only

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Speaker 1: help you. But this person tells you, Hey, Matt, you're

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Speaker 1: off the case, and instead of getting angry or fight

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Speaker 1: for that case, he tells you, I promise you it'll

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Speaker 1: be the best possible thing for your career, like later

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Speaker 1: down the road.

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Speaker 2: And I think that is so important.

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Speaker 1: When you accepted that and didn't just, you know, fight

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Speaker 1: for the wrong thing, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I had. I was really lucky. And then I got

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Speaker 3: I got sort of recruited and mentored by There was

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Speaker 3: a man named Lou Rosenbloom who was he was my

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Speaker 3: immediate supervisor, and I talked about him a lot in

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Speaker 3: the book. And then his boss at the Times, a

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Speaker 3: guy named Brian Brown, and these guys are just they

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Speaker 3: were legends in their in their own right. I used

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Speaker 3: to watch them both when I was a baby da

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Speaker 3: and go watch them and trial because they're just so

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Speaker 3: good at it. They're like my professional fathers in a way,

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Speaker 3: you know. And they guided me and sort of looked

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Speaker 3: out for me and protected me from the internal politics

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Speaker 3: of that place. And I just I owe them. I

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Speaker 3: owe those guys everything. It's another one named Rick King,

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Speaker 3: who is my supervisor and sexual assault, and I just

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Speaker 3: these guys have remained, you know, sort of my mentors

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Speaker 3: at work kind of became my mentors in life, and

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Speaker 3: they're just amazing people. So I was I was really lucky.

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Speaker 3: So when those guys say the swirling politics on this

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Speaker 3: case and it just happened on one, but when they said,

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Speaker 3: you know, we're gonna we're gonna give this one to

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Speaker 3: one of the more experienced people, you know, I had

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Speaker 3: to have complete faith. I had no choice, number one,

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Speaker 3: but I'd have complete faith in those guys because they'd

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Speaker 3: been they'd had my back and been pulling for me

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Speaker 3: for my entire career at that point, and they were

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Speaker 3: absolutely right. I just, you know, and also it's like

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Speaker 3: you know, you it wasn't anything I had done. It

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Speaker 3: was the politics got it. Just it was a huge

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Speaker 3: case and I hadn't done a death penalty case yet,

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Speaker 3: and I was, you know, I was thirty four when

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Speaker 3: I had that thing, and the elected DA wanted somebody

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Speaker 3: with more capital case experience, which I completely understand that,

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Speaker 3: and he was. He was also really good to me

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Speaker 3: over the years. So there's there's times, you know, professionally,

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Speaker 3: especially when you're a young professional, where I think that

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Speaker 3: the best thing you can do oftentimes is sort of

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Speaker 3: take the hit and and be supportive of the guys,

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Speaker 3: of the people that are looking out for you. And

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Speaker 3: I'm using the word guys, but my first mentor in

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Speaker 3: that office was when named Kathy Harper, who essentially recruited

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Speaker 3: me out of law school. And I wouldn't have had

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Speaker 3: any of these experiences if it wasn't for her. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you take the hit, you chalk it up to experience,

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Speaker 3: and you make sure that on the next one you

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Speaker 3: try to learn, try to learn from it, you know,

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Speaker 3: And that's what I did in that case, and I

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Speaker 3: never had another one taken away from me.

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Speaker 1: Again, You've said a couple of things that are so

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Speaker 1: important in my career, and luck is one of them.

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Speaker 2: And the second thing is.

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Speaker 1: That ego, because a lot of people would not have

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Speaker 1: just taken the hit. They would have argued they might

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Speaker 1: have even have burned a bridge over it. I mean

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Speaker 1: I've burned some bridges. There's been a couple I might.

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Speaker 2: Have blown up.

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Speaker 3: Well. You know it's interesting, right because I think it

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Speaker 3: sometimes and I think you can nail on the head

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Speaker 3: with the ego right when it's when it's more about

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Speaker 3: your ego than anything else. Like that was a case

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Speaker 3: that the detectives did such good work. The case was

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Speaker 3: not going to suffer for the changing of the guard

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Speaker 3: on it, and I knew that. And the guy they

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Speaker 3: gave it to went up becoming my boss in the future.

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Speaker 3: His man named Dave Brent, who crushed that case. I

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Speaker 3: mean he did. He was an outstanding lawyer and he

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Speaker 3: did everything right. So you know, being part of a

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Speaker 3: team is like, Okay, we're going to give this to

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Speaker 3: one of the veterans because it's just gotten too big.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's one of those things that, yeah, you

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Speaker 3: can't let your ego because there's good there. You know,

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Speaker 3: there's going to be more opportunity. There's going to be

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Speaker 3: more cases, especially at that age I was so young.

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Speaker 3: But there are other times, you know, where you do

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Speaker 3: have to stand on principle and you talk about burning

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Speaker 3: bridges versus blowing up bridges. Believe me, I've blown up

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Speaker 3: a few bridges and and you look, you know it's

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Speaker 3: it's about and it wasn't about ego. It was about

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Speaker 3: right and wrong in my in my view, and some

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Speaker 3: people might disagree that. People on the other side start

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Speaker 3: I'm sure they do. They're wrong, but I'm sure they

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Speaker 3: do disagree. But especially in this business. You know, Franklin

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Speaker 3: Dellan and Roosevelt had an awesome quote. It was all

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Speaker 3: I ask from history is that I be judged by

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Speaker 3: the quality of my enemies, you know. And I thought

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Speaker 3: that was a great one, you know. And there's some

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Speaker 3: there's some awesome there's some awesome poems out there about

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Speaker 3: oh gosh, and I'm blanking on the Cameron for it

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Speaker 3: was Shelley. Anyway, there's a there's a great poem about

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Speaker 3: how if you haven't made enemies in a professional context,

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Speaker 3: that means that you're you know, you haven't worked hard

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Speaker 3: enough to fight for what's right. And I you know,

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Speaker 3: and it's true. And there are times in the being

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Speaker 3: a being a prosecutor where you know, there you know

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Speaker 3: there might be a judge who doesn't get it, and

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Speaker 3: you know, you I've I've yelled at more than one

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Speaker 3: judge over the course of my career, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't think I think that might be a light

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Speaker 3: scorching of those bridges. I never never burned any bridges

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Speaker 3: with judges, but I've burned I've burned a couple with

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Speaker 3: uh with you know, elected officials over the years. And

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Speaker 3: I would torture those things again because they were wrong.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it doesn't make your life any easier

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Speaker 3: when you've got somebody that's very powerful who's mad at you.

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Speaker 3: But you know, part of my job, especially since leaving,

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Speaker 3: is I've been representing victims of sexual assault pro bono

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Speaker 3: and I've gone into court and I've had to fight

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Speaker 3: some DA's that didn't that that were weak, that didn't

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Speaker 3: understand the strength of certain cases. And you know the

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Speaker 3: problem is it's you can't vicariously prosecute one of those things.

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Speaker 3: But you know, you go in, you fight as hard

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Speaker 3: as you can, and some people, some people don't like that.

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Speaker 3: I never want to make enemies. You know, you don't.

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Speaker 3: You don't. You don't wake up in the morning and

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Speaker 3: say today I'm going to make an enemy. But sometimes

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Speaker 3: there's a there's a very clear right and wrong, and

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Speaker 3: you know, I think the reverse is just as dangerous,

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Speaker 3: where it's like, Okay, well I don't want to make

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Speaker 3: an enemy. They might hurt me, so I'm going to

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Speaker 3: back down from this fight. Sometimes the most important thing,

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Speaker 3: especially for victims of sexual assault or violent crime, is

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Speaker 3: having somebody in their corner who's just throwing haymakers and

365
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Speaker 3: sometimes they land and sometimes they don't, but just having

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Speaker 3: somebody fighting what's wrong. You know. I've been comfortable in

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Speaker 3: that role. You know, even you're fighting city hall and

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Speaker 3: it's not going your way, the fight itself is if

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Speaker 3: that's all you can give those poor people. For me,

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Speaker 3: I'm willing to burn some of those bridges, and believe me,

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Speaker 3: I've I've burned a few, and you know, and I

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Speaker 3: regret the circumstances that led to it, but I can

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Speaker 3: honestly say I would have done the exact same thing. Again.

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Speaker 3: I don't regret the choices that I made that took

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Speaker 3: me there. So yes, it's I guess it's double sided

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 1: I'm with you one hundred percent, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: what we're made of. I mean, we fight for the underdog.

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Speaker 1: That's while we're in the position we're in. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I had a victim of domestic violence that her husband

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Speaker 1: beat her nearly to death. I mean it was literally

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Speaker 1: the hand of God that saved her. And I spent

383
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Speaker 1: months trying to convince her to testify against him.

384
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Speaker 2: And one of the examples that.

385
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Speaker 1: I would use is, even verbally, you don't deserve what

386
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Speaker 1: he was saying to you, much less the physical and financial.

387
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Speaker 1: And so I finally got her to where she was

388
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Speaker 1: going to testify. We go into court and I'm trying

389
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Speaker 1: to explain to the judge all the facts of this

390
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Speaker 1: case that I know them to be, and this was

391
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Speaker 1: this particular judge. But the upshot was she told me

392
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Speaker 1: to shut up and sit down. Now I had judged it, yes,

393
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Speaker 1: And I had spent all of this time telling her.

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Speaker 2: You should not be disrespected, you should not be taught to.

395
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Speaker 1: Like, you know, in any kind of way that would

396
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Speaker 1: be perceived as negative or you know, rude or ugly

397
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Speaker 1: or any of that so I had no choice but

398
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Speaker 1: to stand up and start talking.

399
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Speaker 3: You know.

400
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Speaker 2: So that's one of those times where you're not going

401
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 2: to win it.

402
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 1: But again, to your point, that's a bridge that I

403
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,439
Speaker 1: would burn over and over and over and over. I

404
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 1: was correct in that situation. Now we got to change

405
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Speaker 1: gears a little bit because I tell you something else

406
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Speaker 1: you did in that book, Honey, when you set out

407
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Speaker 1: to tell the truth, you told the truth. This business, y'all,

408
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: is tough.

409
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Speaker 2: On your love life.

410
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 1: And you know, you open this thing up and you

411
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: paint such a clear picture of what the long hours

412
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Speaker 1: are like when you finally get home but you're still

413
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: on call in you're home ten minutes and got to

414
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: turn around and leave, or you've got to leave a

415
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: party or your anniversary or the surprise birthday party for

416
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 1: your partner, whatever it is. It is tough on the

417
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 1: people you love because you're constantly running to somebody you

418
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Speaker 1: don't know to help them.

419
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 2: So I appreciate you addressing this and in the way

420
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Speaker 2: that you do it. So talk a little bit about

421
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Speaker 2: those long hours.

422
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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so the funny thing about that unit when

423
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 3: you get into homicide, so the way works in Orange

424
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 3: County is you just carry a case out of homicide

425
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 3: cases and so you're you're especially when you go to

426
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 3: the crime scene and you you know, I've been there

427
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 3: for notifications, which is when the family essentially comes home

428
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 3: and learns that their love one has been murdered. And

429
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 3: you know, the great word is just it's apoplectic grief

430
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 3: that these people are are going through. So you you

431
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 3: really you understand the enormat of your responsibility as a

432
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Speaker 3: prosecutor when you meet when you meet like the mother

433
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 3: of a murder victim, when you're involved in one of

434
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 3: those cases, it's like you have you've got fun stuff

435
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 3: that you want to do. And since I didn't have kids,

436
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 3: you've got you know, like Thanksgiving dinner, that's that that

437
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 3: you want to go to, or maybe a birthday dinner

438
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 3: or a birthday party, and when the phone rings, you

439
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 3: know you have to go. And it is it's really

440
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 3: tough for people who aren't in the business, who don't

441
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 3: do this professionally, to understand how important it is that

442
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 3: you're there. And and then you know, the last serial

443
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,959
Speaker 3: killer I did you know, we were in that trial

444
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 3: for six months. It's a kind named Andrew Ordelis. It

445
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 3: was a six month long jury trial. So for for

446
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 3: your listeners, that imagine finals in school, except instead of

447
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 3: lasting three weeks, if they last for six months. That's

448
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 3: kind of what it's like. There's you don't have enough

449
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 3: time in any given day to get all the prep

450
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 3: work done and and get everything taken care of that

451
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 3: you need to go and you'll need for the next

452
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 3: day in court and you're there. There isn't enough time

453
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 3: in the day to do all the work that needs

454
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 3: to be done, and there's always more, especially when the

455
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 3: defense starts, you know, giving you expert expert reports that

456
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 3: they're going to put on the stand because there's the

457
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 3: amount of research you could do on one expert is endless.

458
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 3: So you're you know, when you when you're in a relationship,

459
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 3: you know, when I talk about this in the book,

460
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 3: one of them was I was I was dating a

461
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 3: woman at the time who was a deputy DA and

462
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 3: in a different office. She's actually Los Angeles to Day's office,

463
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 3: and it was her birthday dinner and we had what

464
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 3: turned out to be a double homicide, and then on

465
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: top of that, it turned out to be an absolutely

466
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 3: horrific double homicide that uh, you know, in the middle

467
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 3: of the middle of dinner, I got the call and

468
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 3: it was my detectives at Coast MESA that I've been

469
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 3: working with for I don't know, over ten years at

470
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 3: that point, and they they needed me, you know. And also,

471
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 3: when you're there as a prosecutor, you know, you're you're

472
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 3: ensuring that the that the due process rights of the

473
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 3: suspect are you know, are scrupulously adhere to. And that's

474
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 3: good long term for the case because you can help

475
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 3: your detectives with things like search warrants and things to

476
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 3: make sure that the case doesn't get reversed on appeal,

477
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 3: which puts the family through it again. You know. So

478
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: there's it really is an important thing if you can

479
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 3: be there as a DA to do everything you can

480
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 3: to be there, and you know, I yeah. So like

481
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 3: the woman that my my predecessor, her name was Debbie Lloyd,

482
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 3: just a fantastic lawyer, but she was she was rotating

483
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 3: out after twelve years when she gave me the caseload.

484
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: And Debbie was was smart and funny and interesting, the

485
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 3: phenomenal trial talent, and but you know, she she was

486
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 3: you know, and she's very private, but she wasn't she

487
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 3: was unmarried, and I didn't. I didn't realize that the

488
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 3: job could take that much of a toll on relationships,

489
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 3: but it sure did. And you know, some people that

490
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: you know, potential romantic partners are more understanding than others.

491
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 3: And and look, I get it. It's it's not for everyone.

492
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: And then you know, I dated one woman for a

493
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 3: while that it just you know, it was not her

494
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 3: cup of tea. And you know, and there's another another

495
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 3: one I diated, you know, not that long ago. Who

496
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: uh you know, she she flat out had no like

497
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 3: it wasn't that she had no stomach for it. It

498
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 3: was that she could not relate at all to like

499
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 3: to a bereaved famili's desire to get justice. And she

500
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 3: was pretty judgmental about it, as a matter of fact,

501
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: And it was it was that that was more on

502
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 3: my end, Like she was very dismissive that, like, well,

503
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: they should, you know, kind of move on. And they

504
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 3: need to understand it, you know, the the you know,

505
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: the people who commit murder often are victims of trauma

506
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: in their own life. And it's like, oh, really, a

507
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 3: murder victims mother needs to understand the trauma that the

508
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: killer has gone through, Like you know, So it's you know,

509
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 3: you also you see things, you know, so it's not

510
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 3: just that they couldn't handle the job like you see

511
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 3: things as a prosecutor, like you do as a CSI

512
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 3: that you know, there are I have I would have

513
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 3: a very hard time, you know, romantically getting serious with

514
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 3: anybody who can't can't understand, at least to a degree

515
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: and at least sympathize with what victims are going through

516
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 3: in those cases, because it's such a huge part of

517
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 3: your life as a prosecutor. There and there are, There

518
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 3: are people in California. My homestate is full of them

519
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: who their their allegiance and their sympathy and their empathy

520
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 3: is reserved almost exclusively for the people that commit the crimes.

521
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 3: And we see that with every new legislative session in California,

522
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 3: they passed some new crazy law that makes it easier

523
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 3: on you know, the murderers uh in prison or you know,

524
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 3: and it makes it easier for them to get out.

525
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 3: We got to get name George Gascone. It's the DA

526
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: of Los Angeles County right now, who is awful for victims,

527
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 3: absolutely the worst. He treats victims and their families horribly

528
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 3: and I represented the families of two murder police officers,

529
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: fighting against George Gascone and his policies, trying to bring

530
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 3: justice to those families, and you know, so romantically, you know, I,

531
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 3: you know, I had a I've had a couple of

532
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 3: those where you know, there they don't they don't get

533
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: it there they want to feel really sorry for the killers,

534
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 3: and and then it's it's really it's my problem, you know.

535
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 3: I I realized that that's just not a good match.

536
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 3: So it's tough on relationships for sure. But but again

537
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: this may sound a little, a little twisted, but I

538
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 3: wouldn't change the thing. If I had it to do

539
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 3: all over again, I would have I would have done

540
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: it again and hurt people.

541
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: We were sitting at the squad table about a week

542
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: or so ago, and one of our buddies was talking

543
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: about his wife was so mad at him because he

544
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: had forgotten to bring strawberries home. She had texted him

545
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: like at one o'clock, Hey, can you pick some strawberries

546
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: up on the way home? The kids won't chocolate covered strawberries.

547
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: He said sure, and then some major things happened that

548
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: we're all horrible, and he just forgot about it, and

549
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: then driving home, he's trying to you know how you

550
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: try to put it wherever you can put it so

551
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: that when you walk in the door, you're not looking

552
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: like you just saw what you saw. And he was

553
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: still mad about it the next day because she had

554
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: just fallen off the handle about it, and he's like, yeah,

555
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: you know, a killer threatened to murder me yesterday, but

556
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, let's worry about the strawberries.

557
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: So for him, his world is so different than hers. Hers.

558
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: Was the biggest thing that happened to her that.

559
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: Day bad was the kids are going to be disappointed

560
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: or either I now have to go to the store.

561
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: The biggest thing that happened to him was he saw

562
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: a murder and then by proxy, he was threatened. So

563
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: it is difficult. And the more sympathy your partner has

564
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: for other people in general, I think it does make

565
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: your life easier because they know what you're doing. They

566
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: know somebody needs you, just like an emergency room nurse

567
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: or doctor. I need that person right now, not in

568
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: an hour, So it does make a difference. And you

569
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: go into the scene, you go into the scene absolutely

570
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: saves cases. I don't know if you know this, but

571
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: the very first prosecutor for me when I was assigned

572
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: to his own three that ever ever came to the

573
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: crime scene, and you're talking about ninety two, ninety three,

574
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: somewhere in there was Nancy Grace. She's the first person

575
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: I ever saw leave the courthouse and come meet us

576
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: and make sure everything was like it was supposed to be.

577
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: So I know what a God said that is for people,

578
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: So again, thank you for that.

579
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 3: Thank you for saying that. It is a kind of

580
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 3: a calling really, and also it's it's not tough. It's

581
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 3: the golden rule, right. You think, if how would I

582
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 3: want to be treated from somebody who has the legal

583
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 3: power to influence this, how would I want to be treated?

584
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 3: And what I would always do after these murdercis is

585
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: I'd always meet with the victims family and give them

586
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 3: my personal cell number so they knew and I never

587
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: had I never had a bad experience doing that, and

588
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 3: I would introduce them to my team, and I worked

589
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:43,479
Speaker 3: with wonderful people in the DA's office. And you know,

590
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: I think that that has a huge impact in its

591
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 3: own right, making sure that people understand that there's somebody

592
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 3: there who's going to fight for them, and yeah, it's

593
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 3: And I'll tell you what on a case, when you

594
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 3: when you that jury comes back and hold somebody accountable

595
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: for what they did to a mother's love on when

596
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 3: that woman gives you a hug in the hallway when

597
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 3: the trial is over, it is it is the probably

598
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 3: the the best you can feel, because even though you

599
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: can't bring their love on back, you can, And it

600
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 3: sounds weird to say, you do have the power to

601
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 3: give them some sense of justice. And you know, you

602
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 3: go through a lot with those families and you know,

603
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 3: I I you almost you almost, you know, you really

604
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: get to know them, and you just your heart breaks

605
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,719
Speaker 3: for them. So when you can bring it home, it

606
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 3: makes it all worth it.

607
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: You and I do something in common, and I think

608
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: most of us in this business do it. But the

609
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: things that mean the most to us, that signifies something

610
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: in our career that was either unique or heroic, or

611
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: justice was some or the most sentimental, we put it

612
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: on the wall no matter what it is. And I

613
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: know you do that because you mentioned a few items

614
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: in the book, But when you look at your wall,

615
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: it's almost you mentioned time capsule. But my career I

616
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: can watch it when I see the things on the.

617
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: Wall, you guys, challenge coins? Is that a big deal? Yeah?

618
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 3: Those are some of my proudest possessions. Actly, when you

619
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: get a challenge coin from a detective or a da

620
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 3: from another another office. You know, being recognized by your

621
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: you know, your your colleagues for for good work, that

622
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: that that that means a lot. I've got a I've

623
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 3: got a little collection. I think everybody does that, does

624
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 3: it long enough? And for the peer listeners who don't know,

625
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 3: I think it started in Vietnam, I think. So it's

626
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 3: a came from the military where different units would have

627
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: what are called challenge coins, and they'd have these things

628
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: made up and it would have like a unit insignia

629
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 3: on it, and it was their own internal little reward

630
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 3: like for the guy who did did good you know,

631
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: the guy who you know that. So you're being recognized

632
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 3: informally by your by your peers, and it's a really

633
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 3: cool thing. So it's not like it's not a formal accommodation.

634
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 3: It's more like a it's almost more intimate than that.

635
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 3: It's the guys that you know, who you positively impacted,

636
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 3: who were with you in the trenches, and it's a

637
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 3: little coin that that they'll give you. And then, as

638
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: legend has it, I guess that once you got a

639
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 3: challenge coin, you're supposed to carry it everywhere, and if

640
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: you didn't, it's called a challenge going because if you

641
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 3: didn't have it with you and you were in a bar,

642
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 3: you had to buy brinks for everybody's.

643
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: Right, that's right, And I'll tell you I'd rather have

644
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: a challenge going than a metal.

645
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 3: Oh for sure. Yeah. A challenge coin means the the

646
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: people actually doing the work. We're grateful. The people in

647
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 3: the trenches with you at night in the cold, had

648
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 3: gratitude for you, you know, for something good that you

649
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 3: did over the course of the case. And I agree

650
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: one hundred percent. Those are very special. Got them displayed

651
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: them on a shelf in my house.

652
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: With the challenge coins.

653
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: I rotate mine some and I will put different ones,

654
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: like right in the center, because when somebody says, tell

655
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: me about this one, or where did you get that one?

656
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: The stories behind them are important, just like the photographs

657
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: and the maps and the things they don't understand, like

658
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: your piece of metal, Like they're not going to know

659
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: until you ask.

660
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: And to me, that's the whole point.

661
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 3: That's one of the things about the you know, I

662
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 3: really wanted to write this book because I wanted I

663
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 3: wanted to include some of the behind the scenes heroes,

664
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 3: like the CSI folks. You know. I mean, like honestly,

665
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 3: at three o'clock in the morning, when it's freezing cold

666
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 3: and you know, you're you're tired, and you're there those detectives.

667
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 3: It's like I've I've probably attended about one hundred scenes

668
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 3: over the you know, one hundred murder scenes during the

669
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 3: seventeen years I was in homicide. I never heard a

670
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 3: single complaint, not in the rain, not in the cold,

671
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 3: not from a detective. I never heard even a grumble

672
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 3: from any of the CSI texts that I worked with.

673
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 3: And it you know, you see horrible things when you

674
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 3: respond to a scene, and as a prosecutor, you're going

675
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 3: to see way more. You're going to meet with the family,

676
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 3: you're going to you're going to be in the presence

677
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 3: of that visceral grief, right and your faith in humanity

678
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 3: is challenged each time you see a murder victim, and

679
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 3: it is instantly restored because of all the wonderful people,

680
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 3: the professionals that are there to try to make it right,

681
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 3: to bring justice to it, to figure it out, to

682
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 3: make sure that a guy doesn't get away with it

683
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 3: or it doesn't hurt anybody else. And you see these

684
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 3: these dedicated professionals behind the scenes, you know. And it's

685
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 3: one of the working titles for the book was behind

686
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 3: the Yellow Table, because I wanted to tell tell people, like,

687
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 3: you know, there are unseen heroes and and that was

688
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 3: one of the one of the things I really tried

689
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 3: to get out out, you know, in the book was

690
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 3: the things that I saw weren't just the bad things,

691
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: It was the good things too, And these people that

692
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: worked so hard to to make sure that you know,

693
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 3: justice comes for the person who did this, and more importantly,

694
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 3: that it comes for the victims family. So hopefully that

695
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 3: that came across I. You know, I've never written a

696
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 3: book before, so I hope, I hope people like it.

697
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 3: I would love to write another one. We're looking on

698
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 3: at Serial Killers, uh for the next one, And yeah,

699
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 3: I would love to try to get another another book written.

700
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: Well, I encourage it because you did such a beautiful

701
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: job with this one. And you did that you showed

702
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: absolutely one person committed this murder, but forty showed up

703
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: to do.

704
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: Something about it.

705
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: You did that fantastically, so I appreciate that. And another

706
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: thing you did. You were kind of sneaky with it,

707
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: but you gave a lot of good advice about how

708
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: to stay safe, even though you didn't come right out

709
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: and say that, y'all.

710
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to end Zone seven the way I always

711
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 2: do with a quote.

712
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: Monsters can mask their true nature, especially in sentence where

713
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: you get limited exposure to their full sells Matt Murphy.

714
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is one seven