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Speaker 1: From UFOs to ghosts and government cover ups. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Slavery,

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Speaker 1: in fact, is doomed. In whatever way the war is

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Speaker 1: carried on. We owe it no goodwill. It's life has

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Speaker 1: been ogus, and its death will be as grateful to

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Speaker 1: the nation as was that of the Old Man of

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Speaker 1: the Sea to sind Bad. That comes to us from

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Speaker 1: the New York Times on March seventeenth, eighteen sixty two.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. Everyone. My name is Matt

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Speaker 1: and I'm Ben, and we are joined as always by

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Speaker 1: our superproducer, Noel Manumission Brown manu mission, Yeah, manumission or

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Speaker 1: manumittance being manumented, being freed from slavery, essentially emancipated in

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Speaker 1: some senses of the word. Uh. This week we have

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Speaker 1: been taking a look at slavery, not the historical part,

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Speaker 1: but our video that comes out today Three facts about

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Speaker 1: modern slavery, which we shot in front of the Lincoln Memorial.

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Speaker 1: Yes we did, uh, you know President Lincoln. Will will

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Speaker 1: discuss him perhaps a little later in this episode, but

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Speaker 1: his his and his um the people that worked with him.

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Speaker 1: The Emancipation Proclamation. It is cited as ending slavery in

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Speaker 1: the United States. Of course, we know historically that you know,

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Speaker 1: slavery didn't just drop off immediately, right. Everything wasn't hunky dory.

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Speaker 1: When President Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, it was January one,

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three. This was the third year of Civil War.

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Speaker 1: This proclamation famously declared that all persons held as slaves

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Speaker 1: within the rebellious Confederate States are, and henceforward shall be free. Matt,

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Speaker 1: you you've made a great point that this was not

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Speaker 1: near as complete, north swift, and ending as it should

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Speaker 1: have been. So you and I and nol are recording

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Speaker 1: this in the United States. It's a country with a

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Speaker 1: horrific history of slavery, and the lingering effects of this

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Speaker 1: practice can still be seen across the culture today. And

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Speaker 1: this is not this is not a political point. This

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Speaker 1: is a fact. It's inarguable that the end of the

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Speaker 1: end of slavery um was not as concise nor as

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Speaker 1: abrupt as the Emancipation Proclamation aimed for it to be.

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Speaker 1: The slave trade in North America was still not as

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Speaker 1: large as the trade in South America, and if you

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a great program called Black in Latin

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Speaker 1: America which makes a case that Mexico and Peru imported

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Speaker 1: more African slaves than the United States. Yeah. It cites

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Speaker 1: that between fifteen o two and eighteen sixties six that

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Speaker 1: there were eleven point two million Africans UH imported into

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Speaker 1: those countries, like taken conducted. Yeah, and in the United

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Speaker 1: States there were only around four hundred and fifty thousand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the rest were in Latin America the Caribbean as

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Speaker 1: early as the sixteenth and seventeen centuries. This was a

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Speaker 1: long running practice. And uh, the struggle for equality post

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Speaker 1: Emancipation Proclamation continued through Jim Crow laws and and uh

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Speaker 1: ballot test or voting tests, you know, where people were

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Speaker 1: people were allowed to vote on paper if they could

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Speaker 1: you know, decipher Mandarin and things like that. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: then the struggle for civil rights and equality, and then

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Speaker 1: it even gets up to voter rights laws and needing

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Speaker 1: ideas for certain things, laws about being imprisoned and you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're if you've been charged with a felony, certain

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Speaker 1: things you can't do a lot of times vote right

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Speaker 1: and what kind of and and that's a that's an

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Speaker 1: interesting question that you and I have kicked around off

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Speaker 1: the air before. What would change about the political climate

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Speaker 1: in the US if felons were allowed to vote? So

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Speaker 1: we talked about some of this stuff, and and now

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the future. So our look at modern

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Speaker 1: human trafficking and slavery, which are there's a nuance there,

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Speaker 1: there are different things. Uh. It brought us to this

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Speaker 1: question that we're asking today, what's the state of human

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Speaker 1: trafficking and slavery today? What's the future of slavery? And

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Speaker 1: to answer that we have to, uh, we have to

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Speaker 1: bust a couple of myths and walk through some statistics.

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Speaker 1: The first thing we should point to here is that,

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Speaker 1: as we said, slavery and human trafficking did not stop

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Speaker 1: by any means throughout the world at that time. It

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Speaker 1: had existed prior to the Advancipation Proclamation for thousands of years,

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Speaker 1: and it continues today until two thousand fifteen right now, right,

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Speaker 1: and it will probably continue as well. According to the

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Speaker 1: International Labor Organization, they did a report in two thousand

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Speaker 1: twelve and they found that three out of every thousand

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Speaker 1: people in the world are in some form of forced labor. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's an important point that we're going to make about

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Speaker 1: the statistics later, but for now, we're just going to

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Speaker 1: give you some of these findings. And one of those

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Speaker 1: statistics is that there are nearly twenty one million people

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Speaker 1: who are in this kind of forced labor, including one

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Speaker 1: point five million in North America. And as part of

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Speaker 1: one of these definitions, there are two categories of human

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Speaker 1: trafficking in the US, at least by definition, there's sex

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Speaker 1: trafficking and then there's labor trafficking UM and that is

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Speaker 1: as defined by the Victims of Trafficking and Violence Protection

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Speaker 1: Act from two thousand right. And this brings us to

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Speaker 1: another This brings us to something that should be explored

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Speaker 1: because the line between labor and trafficking or enslavement indentured

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Speaker 1: servitude is not as stark as people might think. There's

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Speaker 1: there's a big misconception that the majority of people who

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Speaker 1: are enslaved are enslaved for sexual purposes. However, it seems

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Speaker 1: that from the numbers we can find the majority of

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Speaker 1: people who are enslaved are enslaved in a forced labor situation.

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Speaker 1: And in the US, many of the victims of trafficking

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Speaker 1: end up working as you know, domestic workers, or even

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Speaker 1: in a restaurant industry, or you can hear about forced

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Speaker 1: labor in agricultural fields. According to our research, there was

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Speaker 1: a there are a lot more people enforced work in

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Speaker 1: restaurants than I would have ever imagined. Right, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: there's there There's different stuff there too, because what is

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Speaker 1: the line between actual forced labor? Is forced labor something

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Speaker 1: where you are paid but irregularly paid, or is it

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Speaker 1: something where you are under lockdown and forced to do

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Speaker 1: something by someone who uh possesses your vital documents or

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Speaker 1: someone who could get you deported. So there's uh, there's

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Speaker 1: a thing here about America's immigration policy. And you'll hear

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Speaker 1: a lot of NGOs say that America's approach to immigrate

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Speaker 1: ation uh kind of strengthens the system of human trafficking.

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Speaker 1: And of course I know that this can be a

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Speaker 1: very charged topic for people, not just in the US,

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Speaker 1: but also in Europe for instance. Uh, the current US

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Speaker 1: guessworker program has led to a host of problems for immigrants, right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You might remember the human rights violations that were exposed

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Speaker 1: in uh New Orleans, which led to the creation of

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Speaker 1: the National Guest Workers alliance trying to, you know, find

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Speaker 1: some sort of strength and numbers. And there's a fantastic

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Speaker 1: book you can recalled Life Interrupted Trafficking into Forced Labor

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Speaker 1: in the United States by a professor named Denise Brennan,

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Speaker 1: and she says that contrary to claims that modern day

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Speaker 1: slavery is all around us, the politically thorny reality is

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Speaker 1: that exploited migrant labor is all around us. Most workers

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Speaker 1: are not in a situation of extreme abuse. They're not

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Speaker 1: technically trafficked, but they work in lousy conditions in a

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Speaker 1: kind of labor purgatory. There's no immigration relief for protection

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Speaker 1: for being almost trafficked. Uh. And this professor's view is that, um,

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Speaker 1: the current practice of immigration deportation, those those rules make

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Speaker 1: it impossible to fight trafficking. And this this is strange

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Speaker 1: because the largest number of human trafficking cases not necessarily slavery, right,

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Speaker 1: but taking someone forcibly to another place, right. The largest

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Speaker 1: number of those that are reported are sex trafficking. But

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Speaker 1: how to decide how to support these victims or someone's

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Speaker 1: labeled the victim is still a subject in debate right now.

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Speaker 1: Because you'll hear people talk about and this is this

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Speaker 1: is a dark topic, right, This is grizzly, grizzly unpleasant thing.

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Speaker 1: But you'll hear people talk about, uh, the practice of

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Speaker 1: survival sex like having having sexual congress with someone for

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Speaker 1: your own safety if you're homeless, or if you're trying

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Speaker 1: to survive in a foster uh, in a foster care situation.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's inarguable that currently in the US, there

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Speaker 1: there could be better programs and support for people as

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Speaker 1: survivors of human trafficking. And this is I know we're

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Speaker 1: being very specific to the US. So maybe let's make

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Speaker 1: it a little bit broader and let's look at the

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Speaker 1: world overall where in some cases, uh, slavery is more

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Speaker 1: or less tacitly condoned by the government. Right, Because that's

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Speaker 1: a big question, right when we look at when we

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Speaker 1: look at slavery across the world, we have to say, wait,

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Speaker 1: despite this constant work from NGOs and governments today, slavery

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Speaker 1: still continues and we have some we have some unpleasant

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Speaker 1: news in this in this regard. Yeah, one of the

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Speaker 1: more brutal things that you're going to hear the inside

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Speaker 1: this topic is that there are more slaves that exist

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Speaker 1: today on planet Earth than ever before. And there are

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Speaker 1: a couple of things that work into that statement, right right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that number comes from absolute numbers, right, so not

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Speaker 1: as a percentage of the population, but just raw human lives.

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Speaker 1: Because there are a lot of us humans walking around

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Speaker 1: right now. Um, and some of some of the people

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Speaker 1: walking around, uh I, I let's say, don't take issue

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Speaker 1: with things like putting someone in slavery, and that is

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Speaker 1: a horrible thing to think about. But there are human

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Speaker 1: beings walking around right now that don't. They don't mind

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Speaker 1: so much, I guess. Or there are people grow up

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Speaker 1: in a situation where because their parents were enslaved, they

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Speaker 1: are also enslaved. Modern day slavery differs from the traditional slavery.

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Speaker 1: Traditional slavery which is illegal in each of the hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixties seven countries listed in the Global Slavery Index.

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Speaker 1: Under traditional slavery, these people were considered property, not people,

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Speaker 1: but things. But modern slavery is more about the possession

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Speaker 1: or control of a person in a way that deprives

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Speaker 1: them of their rights. So there is there is a

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Speaker 1: slight difference, and that exists in each of the hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty seven nations that are part of this index,

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Speaker 1: and only five countries, five countries alone count for olds

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Speaker 1: for about sixty one of people living in modern slavery. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: India has the highest number of people living in modern

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Speaker 1: slavery right now, estimated to be at fort million. And

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Speaker 1: one of the examples of that is are the killing workers.

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Speaker 1: And you listeners may have seen something on Vice or

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Speaker 1: recently Humans of New York did a small piece on

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Speaker 1: the killing workers and what they go through. It's a

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Speaker 1: systematic situation where let's say you're a worker from Bangladesh

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Speaker 1: and you want to help out your family and you

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Speaker 1: want to make some money. This person comes into town

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Speaker 1: and says, hey, we can give you a job. Uh

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Speaker 1: let's say in India, we can give you this job

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna make a certain amount of money. You'll

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Speaker 1: be able to send it back to your family. It'll

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Speaker 1: be great. We just need some money to get you

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Speaker 1: over here to do this. This kind of thing happens

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Speaker 1: in to buy and a couple other places like this

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Speaker 1: for different kind of work. And then you show up

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Speaker 1: for work, but then you find out, oh wait, they

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Speaker 1: just they took my passport. That's kind of weird. Now,

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Speaker 1: how am I going to get back to my family

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Speaker 1: when it's time to go. Oh, you'll you'll get that

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Speaker 1: back after you've paid off your debt. Right, So then

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Speaker 1: you know you're having to pay off your the original loan.

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Speaker 1: They're given tons of interest, and you're not making as

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Speaker 1: much money as you thought you were going to make

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Speaker 1: and you end up being stuck there. Yeah. Another another

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Speaker 1: way to look at would be some of the cultural expectations.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times you'll hear people who are slaveholders

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Speaker 1: use terms that try to avoid it. Like what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about with the kiln workers is debt bondage, Right,

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Speaker 1: you have to pay off your debt or bonded labor

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Speaker 1: or attached labor people who live on a property that

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Speaker 1: someone owns and therefore they're part of the property, the

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Speaker 1: same way the fields, the trees, and the buildings are

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Speaker 1: or um, you know, indentured servitude. Uh. Here's another nasty,

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Speaker 1: nasty fact. Uh. The the last country in the world

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Speaker 1: to abolish slavery was Mauritania in nineteen eighty one. Geez,

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Speaker 1: and this of course still continued at the time. There

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Speaker 1: there are other people in the region who are who

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Speaker 1: are still enslaved. Enslave status is passed down through the generations.

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Speaker 1: So if you're mother or your father was a slave,

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Speaker 1: then you too can be born a slave. This, this

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Speaker 1: abominable practice continues. And then it also brings us to

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Speaker 1: the question. I like that you mentioned guest workers, right,

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Speaker 1: people from Indonesia perhaps or the Philippines who were brought

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Speaker 1: to Middle Eastern countries under the pretense that they will

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Speaker 1: be given job opportunities that do not exist. Some of

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Speaker 1: these euphemistic words, euphemisms that are used with us are

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Speaker 1: just it's a nefarious right. It is, it is and

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Speaker 1: you know, as you said, these people may have their

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Speaker 1: passports taken by their their sponsor, their employer, and then

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Speaker 1: forced to live in horrific conditions, exposed to assault, exposed

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Speaker 1: to exposed to beatings, and centraal harassment is rampant more

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Speaker 1: than harassment. Well yeah, oh yeah, it's sorry, it's hard.

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Speaker 1: It's hard for me to to even imagine the horrors

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Speaker 1: that people have to go through with this stuff. And

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Speaker 1: in oh, and just to go back with Mauritania. While

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Speaker 1: India has the highest population estimated to be in slavery

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Speaker 1: in terms of numbers, Mauritania has the largest percentage as

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and fourteen, four percent of mauritaneous population

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Speaker 1: can be considered enslaved. Wow fo this Uh, this is

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Speaker 1: not to say that other countries are perfect themselves. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can read the list of the countries with the

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Speaker 1: most slaves, which is just a terrible rundown that we

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Speaker 1: can do. I don't know if we want to laundry

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Speaker 1: list that. But there's another factor here, which is given

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Speaker 1: the larger number of slaves in absolute terms, as I

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Speaker 1: think we may have mentioned in the video to uh,

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Speaker 1: slaves are cheaper than ever before. Now, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: you pointed to what what did we say in while

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Speaker 1: chattel slavery was the normal thing in the United States.

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Speaker 1: If you do the conversions of money back in those

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Speaker 1: days to what it would be now, a buying a

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Speaker 1: person averaged around forty thousand U s. Dollars and nowadays

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Speaker 1: with modern money, I think the average was around ninety

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Speaker 1: nine zero dollars, right. And the uh, if we look

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Speaker 1: at a pie graph of slave every victims are women

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Speaker 1: and girls, whereas are men and boys, and and as

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Speaker 1: Ben and I were saying earlier, a lot of these

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Speaker 1: things feel like they're being equated together. Um. But there

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Speaker 1: is there. They're a big difference in some of these

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Speaker 1: numbers because you know, if you throw it all together

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Speaker 1: in one big thing, the way some of these numbers are,

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Speaker 1: it's not taking into account the exact situation, right, and

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Speaker 1: every every situation with this is different. When we're talking

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Speaker 1: about bonded labor versus guest workers win bonded bonded labor,

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Speaker 1: there's there are differences there even, and they're disferent differences

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Speaker 1: through all of this, and there I think there's a

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Speaker 1: Washington Post article you can find that discusses the minutia

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Speaker 1: of some of the statistics out there. Right. Yeah, to

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Speaker 1: this may seem like a Colt question, but it is

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Speaker 1: a question that must be asked, which is, if a

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Speaker 1: if an NGO exists to fight slavery, right, where are

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Speaker 1: the numbers derived from? You always have to question your sources.

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Speaker 1: And then is it possible that there is exaggeration because

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Speaker 1: a lot of these numbers don't agree. And that's not

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Speaker 1: to say that there's you know, malevolence or deception on

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Speaker 1: the part of the NGOs. There's not a census. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's incredibly difficult to find a complete and accurate number

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Speaker 1: of how many people are enslaved because, as you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: as Matt you pointed out, it's difficult to have a sensus,

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Speaker 1: and even the idea seems, you know, horrible. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: it's strange. Yeah. Uh so we're going to talk some

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Speaker 1: more about the stuff they don't want you to know

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Speaker 1: regarding modern slavery. However, before we do, we're going to

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Speaker 1: pause for a word. Um, today's sponsor. Here's where it

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Speaker 1: gets crazy. I love it when you do that. You

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Speaker 1: mayn't feel weird when he said, I'm sorry, I think

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Speaker 1: we all do human rights. This is this is one

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Speaker 1: of the craziest things. Human rights often take a back

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Speaker 1: seat to international affairs. Oh yeah, that's right, especially if

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Speaker 1: you've got I don't I don't know, the Olympics coming

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Speaker 1: into your country, or FIFA or something like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: tell me a little more about this. Well, you just

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Speaker 1: imagine that you were being tasked with building huge structures

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Speaker 1: that are going to hold thousands and thousands of people,

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Speaker 1: and maybe they're only going to be used one summer

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Speaker 1: or one winter, who knows, but you have to build

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Speaker 1: them do it now? Yeah? The and how how do

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Speaker 1: you do that in a country that doesn't have rule

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Speaker 1: of law or labor regulations. Right. It came out recently.

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Speaker 1: You've probably read some of the some of the reports

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Speaker 1: regarding the use of slave labor in these enormous construction projects.

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Speaker 1: And also, you know, we're we're talking about countries that

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Speaker 1: have close relationships with other other countries that have really

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Speaker 1: strict anti slavery, anti human trafficking laws. That's strange, right,

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Speaker 1: Like India and the US are geopolitical partners, right. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And again, India has over fourteen million people enslaved today. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We could also mention I'm sure numerous examples spring to

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Speaker 1: mind as you're thinking about this, listeners, but for instance,

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Speaker 1: forced labor in North Korea. Right, if the if the

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Speaker 1: if the problem of slavery, If this um disgusting practice

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Speaker 1: is so inherently disgusting, so um such anathema to the

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Speaker 1: existence of a modern civilization, then the question becomes why

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Speaker 1: is it tolerated? How does it occur? There? There's some

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Speaker 1: excellent reports by the United Nations that you can read

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Speaker 1: for free online detailing the roles of corrupt government officials

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Speaker 1: and assisting human trafficking and smugglers. Right, and and human trafficking,

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Speaker 1: we should also say, is not necessary again, not necessarily slavery.

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Speaker 1: It's human trafficking. When a coyote takes uh takes a

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Speaker 1: group of people illegally over a border right between Mexico

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Speaker 1: and the US. Even if the even if the coyote

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Speaker 1: you know, is paid his or her fee and then

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Speaker 1: just does let the people go off, it's still trafficking.

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Speaker 1: It's still trafficking, and it's still you know, smuggling. But

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Speaker 1: the question then becomes, you know, the answer is something

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Speaker 1: very cold and geopolitical, which is that if it is

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Speaker 1: going to damage a status quo right for for China

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Speaker 1: or the US too, or even South Korea to invade

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Speaker 1: North Korea right and try to liberate people enforced labor camps,

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Speaker 1: then this geopolitical calculation occurs where people, people at the

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Speaker 1: heads of government, right, people who either are the power

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Speaker 1: or have the ear of power, say, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: there are different kinds of evil and which one is worse?

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Speaker 1: Which is which is a conversation I have never personally

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Speaker 1: been in, thank goodness, but it is a conversation that

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Speaker 1: people have. And one of the things that comes to

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Speaker 1: mind right here that maybe isn't the best thing is

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Speaker 1: is listening to let's say, certain politicians inside the US

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Speaker 1: who have recently called for a global government. This is

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing that they would say, this is

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Speaker 1: why we need a global governance. Who would say, Hey,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what country you're in, this is important.

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Speaker 1: This can't happen now. That sounds really nice, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: But I know people right now are just getting a

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Speaker 1: ringing in their ears because I said global government, and

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Speaker 1: you know, and and the idea of that is very scary,

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Speaker 1: and to me it's scary. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: it could mean if we had something like that, it

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Speaker 1: was true governments on that kind of scale, then maybe

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Speaker 1: you could stop it. That's interesting you said in that,

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Speaker 1: because I wonder if that kind of global governance would

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Speaker 1: be possible. We know that we've talked about this in

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Speaker 1: earlier podcasts where we talk about secret societies or people

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Speaker 1: trying to control the world. From what we can tell,

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Speaker 1: the truth of the matter is that there are numerous

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Speaker 1: groups who think they should be controlling the world, right,

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Speaker 1: and they are always constantly trying to yeah and add

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Speaker 1: odds with one another. Right. It's very much a highlander

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Speaker 1: king of the hill, who makes us right? Who watches,

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Speaker 1: the watchers, and the The question here is um, is

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Speaker 1: to what extent I would say, to what extent this

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Speaker 1: could actually work. We've talked before about Dunbar's number, the

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Speaker 1: concept that there is a hard wired limitation in every

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Speaker 1: human brain that limits how many people you can think

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Speaker 1: of as other human beings, which, in my mind, um,

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Speaker 1: in my mind, raises some difficult propositions when we talk

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Speaker 1: about an elected representative representing, you know, anyone over a

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Speaker 1: couple people, breds of thousands of people, right and is

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Speaker 1: is there is there some sort of possibility that a

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Speaker 1: global government would be able to address the the atrocity

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Speaker 1: that is modern slavery. To me, that's a question that

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Speaker 1: would be a great thing to ask, because we still

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Speaker 1: as a species, have not proven whether a one world

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Speaker 1: global government would work. And my spider sense tells me,

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Speaker 1: my spider sense tells me it would work very well

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Speaker 1: for a very small group of people, but for most

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Speaker 1: of humanity it's very much a question up in the air.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, right well, I don't know, like

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it could even happen. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about billions of people. How on earth literally would this

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Speaker 1: would this occur, How would decisions be made? The United

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Speaker 1: Nations are he has such a difficult time, and the

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Speaker 1: world superpowers, right, and nuclear powers even often ignore the

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Speaker 1: U n when it doesn't say something that suits them.

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Speaker 1: The European Union is constantly trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: to be a government of multiple countries. And now that

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Speaker 1: this question about who would control the world, you know,

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Speaker 1: financial institutions honestly probably have the best shot. Financial institutions

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Speaker 1: and coalition of nuclear powered governments. That sounds great, that

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Speaker 1: sounds yeah, I said, okay, So I can hear the

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Speaker 1: sarcasm it's emanating off you and I'm receiving. Okay. So,

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Speaker 1: because in absence of some group that would actually have

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Speaker 1: the power to say no, don't do that, right, we

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Speaker 1: have something like the US, which a lot of times

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Speaker 1: seems to or at least attempts to act as the

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Speaker 1: global police force that goes through and says, hey, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna put sanctions on you because we don't

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Speaker 1: like this is what you're doing. Hey, we're gonna invade

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Speaker 1: you because we don't like this what you're doing. And

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Speaker 1: as we've learned through our experiences here and listeners, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you have as well that perhaps those the reasons

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Speaker 1: for doing those things aren't necessarily above board. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is again a calculation that that continues with this stuff,

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Speaker 1: right because I think we talked about it before, and

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Speaker 1: I know that it sounds a bit world weary. But

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Speaker 1: when I hear people saying we're going to go to war,

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Speaker 1: leaders of any country saying we're going to war because

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Speaker 1: of our values, then I'm kind of suspicious, right, because

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Speaker 1: if those values are so sacrosanct, if they are so powerful,

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Speaker 1: then why do human rights violations continue, you know, in

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Speaker 1: in every country? And of course it's because a system

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Speaker 1: can't be perfect. I'm just saying that I cannot think

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Speaker 1: of an example where in a global government could work.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps as technology evolves it would be some sort of

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Speaker 1: there would be some sort of way to do it.

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Speaker 1: But given the distrust, rightfully placed distrust in in something

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Speaker 1: like this, some overarching global empire, I I uh, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, man. It's a tough sell. We've got and

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Speaker 1: we've got local examples too, Listeners, longtime listeners. As you know,

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Speaker 1: Matt Nolan, I are based at how stuff works in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: which means our cities primary airport is Heartsville Jackson International Airport.

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Speaker 1: We're recording this in twenty fifteen, towards the end of August,

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Speaker 1: and as of our recording time, this is the busiest

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Speaker 1: airport in the US. Right. It has also been a

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Speaker 1: hub of human trafficking for a for a distressingly long time,

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Speaker 1: and there's some excellent organizations here and abroad that are

427
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: working to prevent this, which is why if you go

428
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: to the airport you will see uh signs about human traffic,

429
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: and you saw some of these last time we were there. Right, Yeah,

430
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: I don't see. I don't see how you tackle that problem.

431
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: And it's perhaps just because I haven't lived inside of

432
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: trying to accomplish that goal for very long, but it

433
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: seems like such an herculean task to stop it when

434
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: you have so many human beings going through that massive

435
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: airport every moment, right, Yeah, the u Ineen you can

436
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: read some reports that are immensely depressing about the airport,

437
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: partnering with gb I, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, the

438
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: state level version of the federal Bureau, because there was

439
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: a report that Atlanta had the biggest cash based underground

440
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: sex economy in the nation. Uh what Yeah, to the

441
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: tune of two hundred and ninety million a year. And

442
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: and the sad thing about a lot of these human

443
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: trafficking signs is that they are posted at eye level

444
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: so that a child can see the print and read

445
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: the eight hundred number. Well that's I mean, that's good, right,

446
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: that's the whole point, so that maybe a child could

447
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: hopefully Yeah, and this this question, you know, this is

448
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: one of those This is one of those things sometimes

449
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: you and I will get the question where someone will say, well,

450
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: who are they in this scenario? Right? What is the

451
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: cover up? And the cover up appears to be people

452
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: who are doing the actual tracking or trafficing the actual enslaving,

453
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: as well as corrupt officials who are helping them, right

454
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: because they're either making they're making money, or their countries

455
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: making money, or their prefecture whatever it is. They're tiny,

456
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: their region is making money, and their fiefdom right where

457
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: or the suzerain but the the other There's another aspect

458
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: here that I wanted to get your opinion on. So

459
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: you remember a few years back, uh fairly recently here

460
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: where there was a judge accepting kickbacks to sentence children

461
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: to um to the time in the juvenile Yeah, went

462
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: to jail, he did. Does that count as human trafficking?

463
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: It's the forced movement of a person for financial gain. WHOA.

464
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have thought about it that way, but you know,

465
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: I want I wonder what this is, and I wonder too,

466
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: how how this problem could be addressed. Like, let's take

467
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: it in comparison. Let's take it to um disease. Right,

468
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: It's a well known fact that some diseases persist because

469
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: there's not a financial incentive in the enormous cost of

470
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: research it would take to make medicine that could cure it.

471
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: But there is an the Norman's financial let's say, incentive

472
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: to create some kind of drug or prescription that a

473
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: human can take to maybe not cure the thing, but

474
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: at least stop some of the worst effects alleviate the systems. Okay, sorry,

475
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm getting out the soapbox. I don't know if I've

476
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: already talked about this, but moving away from an ownership

477
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: society to a service society is a, as I think,

478
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: a very dangerous thing, and it's already happening, you know,

479
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: like with there's so many things now that used to

480
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: buy an own out right, and now you just pay

481
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: for them. Are you afraid of the cloud? Man? The

482
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: cloud loves you. The cloud is Uh. The cloud is

483
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing while it lasts, and I wish it

484
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: all the best. It's not my favorite thing to participate in.

485
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: Just really fast. I want to go back to that

486
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: example of the guy sending kids to jail, because it

487
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: makes me really think about the private prison system that

488
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: exists in the world. And I think we've discussed c

489
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: c A before and a couple of other organizations that

490
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: they they profit off of running prisons and having human

491
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: beings in prison, right, And then that goes to the

492
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: question of whether or not incarceration is itself a substitute

493
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 1: for slavery. What what we're talking about specifically is what's

494
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: known as the Kids for Cash scandal. This was in

495
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: two thousand eight in Pennsylvania. Two judges Mark Ciavarella and

496
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: Michael Conahan were uh accused and I believe ultimately convicted

497
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: of accepting money from a guy who builds private for

498
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: profit youth centers or juvie halls, basically youth centers, a

499
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: guy named Robert Miracle. Uh, oh my god, No, that's

500
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,919
Speaker 1: not his name. Not spelled the same way in E

501
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: R I c Elli, but he was he was apparently

502
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: paying them to bring children to the center. Now we

503
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: should say, to be completely objective that at least here

504
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: in the States, the vast majority of prisons are not private.

505
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: Private prisons are a relatively small part of the percentage

506
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 1: of prison structures overall. However, Uh, private prisons are branching

507
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: out into immigration detainment centers. That just sounds really nice.

508
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: Immigration detention centers. You know, that's something then that I

509
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: think we've said it before, but I really want to

510
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: cover that in particular, what what a detention center is,

511
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: what it's like to be someone who gets stuck in

512
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: one of those things. And I've made some contacts, so

513
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: I think we can actually do a whole show on

514
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: that and maybe even have somebody on yeah, and listeners

515
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: read in and let us know if you would like

516
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: this to be a future episode of stuff they don't

517
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: want you to know. So we're we're looking at a

518
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: really big thing, a large phenomenon, and it's one that

519
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: often may seem I don't know, Matt, often may seem

520
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: abstract or or distant. You know, people can easily read

521
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 1: about things that happened in history and say, oh, that's

522
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: not me, right, I would never I would never do that.

523
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: And it's true. It's here's another point. It's it's true

524
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: that even during the age of chattel slavery in the US,

525
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: most people could not afford to buy another human being

526
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: anymore than most people could afford to buy something else

527
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: that was very expensive. Right. Yeah, I mean we said

528
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: almost think about spending on anything right now. And that's

529
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: the terrifying thing, because people might take out a loan

530
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: to get a car today. Right. So this, while this

531
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: stuff might seem abstract, might seem removed from our day

532
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: to day exist instance, it's not the distant past, and

533
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 1: it's not as far away as you think. The odds

534
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: are depending on what consumer products we pass each day,

535
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: that there has been in somewhere in the UH, somewhere

536
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: in the operational production chain, there has been the use

537
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: of forced labor or slave labor, especially in some agricultural

538
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: products like chocolate. Yeah, chocolate is oh my gosh, I

539
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: forget if it was a Vice Quick documentary that I

540
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: watched on that, but it just exposed that the children

541
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: that we're working getting the chocolate for you or even

542
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 1: let's say what device you're listening to this podcast on.

543
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily slavery, but in a lot of other cases,

544
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it really just depends on how you how

545
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: you decide to categorize things like people who work in

546
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: factories who build smartphones. You're talking specifically about fox Con, Yes,

547
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: fox Con who build the phones? Right? And then there

548
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: here's one that some you know, some people might not

549
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: think about. You've you've heard about chocolate, You've heard about electronics,

550
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: you've heard about clothing. It can also apply to illegal drugs, cocaine,

551
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: of course, marijuana, all can be part of this, all

552
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: can be part of these forced labor programs. And here's

553
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: something that was really tricky that I learned about a

554
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: while back. So, the US has labor laws that in

555
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: theory prevent the prevent the slave like exploitation of workers. Well,

556
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: in Congress, and I believe a number of years back,

557
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: there was a there was this frightening discovery that some

558
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: things that had them made in the USA label were

559
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: made in US held territories that didn't have the same

560
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: labor laws. So for legal purposes for the employees, they

561
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: were in the U s territory. But for the ultimate

562
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: destination for the customers, right, and for pricing purposes, they're

563
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: made in the USA. Yeah, that's a that's a distressing thing.

564
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: And we know, we know, of course that this is

565
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: such a big problem. It's kind of like how it's

566
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: kind of like cancer, Matt, because we often people who

567
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 1: are not doctors often use the phrase cancer as though

568
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: it is one thing, where in truth, while there is

569
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: a group term, uh, not group term is cancer. It

570
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: describes a range of widely varying things, right, And so

571
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: when we say slavery or modern slavery, what we're actually

572
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: doing is we're describing uh, a wide range of things

573
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: with one term, and so it's not completely it's not

574
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: completely fair. It's it's worth asking is there some kind

575
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: of silver bullet solution, and if so, what is it?

576
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: Because another country that has a very high rate in

577
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: terms of population enslaved would be Uzbekistan, and what what

578
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: will we do with Uzbekistan and Mauritania. Would there be

579
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: an idea that some group could come in and create

580
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: an infrastructure such that uh, people didn't use slaves, not

581
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: because they all of a sudden became magically better. People

582
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: were fundamentally changed, but because there was something more useful,

583
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: or they were incentivized towards something more useful. And that

584
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: brings us to another point. Matt, what's the future of slavery? Well,

585
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: it's it's mostly robots. Ah, yes, that's what I would say. Uh. Here,

586
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: here's a quick stat from Statista of places, and I'm

587
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: just gonna read this verbatim Statista, I hope you don't mind,

588
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: hight Here we go. Worldwide shipments of multi purpose industrial

589
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: robots are forecast to exceed two hundred and seven thousand

590
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: units in TWI. That's up from one hundred and fifty

591
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: nine thousand in two thousand twelve. Check this out. The

592
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: robot density is particularly high in countries that have strong

593
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 1: automotive industries. So we're looking at Japan, uh Us and

594
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: several other places. There are in Japan one thousand, five

595
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty two industrial robots installed per ten thousand

596
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 1: automotive employees, so that that's kind of crazy. I mean,

597
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: you're getting your that's around a little over fift And

598
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: that's not to say that automotive workers are in any

599
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: way slaves, and that is not what I'm saying at all.

600
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: But but what I'm saying is the kind of jobs

601
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: that would require someone to do manual labor of some sort.

602
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: A lot of these jobs will hopefully eventually be done

603
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: by something that would not be considered a human. Now,

604
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: we're going to have a guest on the show later,

605
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: not this episode, in the future, uh, an old friend

606
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: of mine who spends a lot of time, uh theorizing

607
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: about what artificial intelligence is? What the what the uh

608
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: intersection between a robot or a circuit board and software

609
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: and a soul? Well, what is that? Is it possible

610
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: that we reach a point wherein robots or you know,

611
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: software programs are sentient to the point that it seems,

612
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: uh that it is a violation somehow of their own

613
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,479
Speaker 1: rights to force them to do task for us. This

614
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: would be such an amazing problem to have, because it

615
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: would mean this crazy experiment called the human race somehow

616
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: didn't blow itself up in the interim or run out

617
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: of water or starved to death. And still it would

618
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: be a very strange thing. You know, earlier we did

619
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: and an episode or a series on the concept of

620
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: legal personhood, and this was this was an interesting episode

621
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: and people had surprisingly strong feelings about it. So what

622
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: so what was this idea, Well, there are a couple

623
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 1: of different things that we looked at. One of them

624
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: was animals and whether or not a a a a citation,

625
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: or a great ape could be considered to be a

626
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: person for legal purposes, which would mean, you know, they

627
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: have things like the right, uh, the right not to

628
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: be unfairly unjustly detained, which is, you know, if you're

629
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: if you're a person and you live in a country

630
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: that has rule of law, then the law typically has

631
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 1: something along the lines of if you haven't done any

632
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 1: thing wrong, we can't just put you in a room,

633
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: and we can't just keep you there. And if animals

634
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: gain some sort of legal personhood, which is which is

635
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: a topic that is enormously vital to some people and

636
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: seems silly to other people. But if animals attain some

637
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: sort of personhood, then a zoo becomes like animal jail,

638
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: which is a term I learned from you once. That's

639
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: the term that I will continue to use. So it's

640
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: it's interesting, and the criticism on both sides had some

641
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: valid points. One of the things that stayed with me

642
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: is we had someone right in and say, you know,

643
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: this is an interesting topic, but humanity should write its

644
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: own house first, and I I understand that. But also,

645
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: you know, when we talk about these large global issues,

646
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 1: the questions are almost always the same, which is why

647
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: does it continue? The answer is usually profit right? And

648
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 1: then that leads us to the second question, who profits right?

649
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: And that leads us to the third question, which is

650
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: how do we change this relationship between a terrible thing

651
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 1: and a growing series of bank accounts? Which is which

652
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: is a shame to say it? Um? And I think

653
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: for a time it's you know, it's quite possible that

654
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: people will find robots substituting, as you said, uh, the

655
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: traditional human interactions. Well, here's the other side of that coin.

656
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: For every robot that is installed, that is a human

657
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: being that is not working right. Yes, okay, so just

658
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: quick etymology because I love etymology. There's the word robot

659
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: is is pretty recent, right. This came from a check

660
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: playwright uh and also a journalist named Carol Kapock uh

661
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 1: C A p. E. K. He lived from eight eight

662
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 1: to ninety eight in n the He had a play

663
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: called are You Are, which translates to Rossum's Universal Robots.

664
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 1: And the word robot comes from this old Slavonic word robota,

665
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 1: which means servitude or forced labor. So for the purposes

666
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: of this conversation for this episode, it's fascinating because a

667
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: lot of people use the term robot and it has

668
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: evolved to mean something different, but originally it did mean

669
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 1: a slave. Wow. So perhaps uh, this word is attaining uh,

670
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: the something closer to the original root meaning of it.

671
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: And and we we can see in other places, right,

672
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: like you had a couple of examples you were pointing out,

673
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: I could also see the sex trade being transformed perhaps

674
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: a little bit. Um we're aware of this technology, or

675
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: perhaps you're not. But there's this technology and product called

676
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: the real Girl, which is something that it's a doll essentially,

677
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: or a real doll. I forget, I think it's real doll. Okay,

678
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: it's a it's a life size or at least almost

679
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: life size human being that is made out of other materials. Right,

680
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: it's a sex manning. It's it's a sex mannequin, yes, exactly. Okay,

681
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: Now I'm thinking about movies like AI or I don't know,

682
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: some kind of replicant sex worker where it's you combine

683
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: an artificial intelligence or some at least some kind of

684
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence with that technology, and then perhaps we won't

685
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: have to have so many sex workers. But then again

686
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: it comes that conversation of what is what is the

687
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: nature of intelligence? At what point does it become immoral

688
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: or unethical to force a thinking entity, yeah, to do

689
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: stuff it wouldn't want to do? Completely agree, like the

690
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 1: like that recent story we have posted on Facebook about

691
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: scientists who are very close to growing a brain, an

692
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: actual human brain. Yeah, whoa, that's an ethics mind field

693
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: right there, right, You know, how do you break the

694
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: news to the brain? How do you teach it? What

695
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: are just a brain? What if you can? You know,

696
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: what if you can teach this thing and then study

697
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: the rate at which it becomes an entity? You know?

698
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: Could could a consciousness evolve without being inside a body?

699
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I think? I think yes,

700
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: I think so. It's like the old Descartes thing, right,

701
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: I think therefore I am yeah, because if if you

702
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: give a thinking brain sensors, which is essentially just what

703
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: we have in biological sensors, then why, yeah, how is

704
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: it any different? It's a good question, Matt. So what

705
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: if we what if we follow this even further into

706
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: the future, let's say that automation increasingly replaced his jobs

707
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: it would normally be done by humans. And let's go

708
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 1: ahead and imagine that despite the coming catastrophes, with resources

709
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: potable water, edible food, meter of ocean levels rising, right,

710
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: a quality of air, um, things like that. If let's

711
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: say that resources are diminished, but we're working assiduously to

712
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: save them. But we're coming back from a near disaster scenario.

713
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: And you're a human being growing up in a time

714
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: where there are are no jobs. Robots do them all.

715
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: So then how do you justify your existence in a society?

716
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: How do you how do you earn uh air to breathe, food,

717
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: to eat, water to drink, a place to live. Well,

718
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: you know, for me, as long as the robots don't

719
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: learn how to right stories and record podcasts and make videos,

720
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: then I'm feeling pretty good. Totally gonna happen. Though, yes,

721
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: it won't happen, yes way, Matt, Well yeah it will.

722
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 1: There's there's an interesting episode of forward thinking that our

723
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: our friends Jonathan and Joe and Lauren did about some

724
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: of the artificial uh and well maybe software is a

725
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: better word. At this point attempts to figure out how

726
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: to edit footage together and write how to aim at

727
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: a demographic I think it's quite possible within our lifetimes,

728
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 1: and perhaps yours is yours as well, Listeners, that there

729
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: could be an entirely artificially created film. It might hit

730
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: all it might be good, guys, it might hit all

731
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: the story points. It might use um computer generated images

732
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: for the actors as well as voices, right, and it

733
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: may also it may also there is an idea I

734
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: have for a sci fi story which I'm going to

735
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 1: feel just so ripped off if it ever becomes real,

736
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: and don't really somebody might hear it, and then, dude,

737
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: then do you think so? I think I know what

738
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: you're talking about. I think it's a good story. I

739
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: refuse to participate in a cover up on this, of

740
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 1: all shows. Okay, so please, listeners, I'm trusting you. Please

741
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: don't steal my idea. It's just cool. I'd like to

742
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: hear what you think about it. Imagine, Okay, can you

743
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: say in a world can you do in a world?

744
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: Imagine that we are in the future where in you

745
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: can take a device, right, and you can take one

746
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: movie you really love? What's a movie you really love?

747
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: Matt the Matrix. Okay, so you can take the Matrix

748
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: and then you can take another film that you really

749
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: love that's completely different. What's that? How about type Panic Titanic? Great?

750
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: So let's say that you live in the future where

751
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: you can turn on your device, your software and you say, uh, computer,

752
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: combine the Matrix and Titanic, and the computer will be

753
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: like computing, and then create a film that is a

754
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: seamless mesh of those two films, not just in terms

755
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: of the actors and the sequences, but in terms of

756
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 1: the themes, in terms of the philosophical quandaries, and it

757
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: will be coherent and unified. I think that it is

758
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: possible that's something like that could exist, and that's you know,

759
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 1: that's the dream big kind of story. It would be

760
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: a lot easier to write about it than it would

761
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: be to make the code, you know what I mean.

762
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: I'm just imagining Neo rocketing off of the Titanic at

763
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: the end while everybody's going down. You can fly now right,

764
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: I'm king of the world, and uh. And that you know,

765
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: there are there are other things that you could combine

766
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: with that you have better examples, And I apologize that

767
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: was great. So I'm just saying like it. It is

768
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: quite possible that the problem of human slavery fundamentally becomes

769
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: changed by technology, right by some of the same things

770
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: that are being built with slave labor may ultimately or

771
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: one day lead to the demise of this abhorrent practice.

772
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: That's cool imagery that's going on in my head right now.

773
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: I hope you listeners are also getting some of that well,

774
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: and I hope that we're I hope that we're showing

775
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: some of the state of it. And I you know,

776
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: I have massive respect um for you because you're the

777
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: one who You're the one who pointed out something that

778
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people forget, which is, you know,

779
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 1: the fact that these these numbers may well be exaggerated,

780
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: uh or that they may not agree, whether that's through

781
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: mistakes and methodology or maybe bad data or maybe even

782
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: self interested actors. It's to realize that there is still

783
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: a great deal we do not know about modern slavery,

784
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: other than it exists, and other than the fact that

785
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: there are interested parties in in the world, in other

786
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,479
Speaker 1: countries and maybe here in the US on some level

787
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:23,760
Speaker 1: who are specifically supposed to be stopping this and explicitly

788
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: allowing it to occur, not just turning a blind eye,

789
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: but assisting in a slave trade. And I know that

790
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: this is a little bit soap box ish, but the

791
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 1: fact of the matter is that this is this is

792
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: a problem that has followed humanity like a shadow, you know,

793
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: for the entirety of human civilization. Have you heard Luis

794
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: Kay's bit about um, of course, but maybe have you

795
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: heard have you listeners? Have you or this? It sounds familiar.

796
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: He I'm not gonna do the bit because I am

797
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: not Luis C. Kay, and he has he's the only

798
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: person who can deliver it. But it is a He

799
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: makes a point about how this kind of human suffering

800
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 1: that exists in in the act of enslaving a human

801
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: being is what has built every giant, big thing that

802
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: exists on this planet. Every huge um uh you know,

803
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: big countries, every everything basically that we have right now

804
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: is because we threw he says, human suffering at it

805
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: until it became a thing. Ah, yes, I remember that.

806
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: It's a it's difficult point, but it's not entirely out

807
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: of the ballpark. I mean, Luis Kay is a pretty

808
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: insightful guy. I'm a fan of him. You are too

809
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: big fan. Yeah, and uh, I guess what we'll do is,

810
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: uh wrap up the show listeners. We would like to

811
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: hear from you. We'd like to hear your perspective on

812
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: the topics we addressed or anything from privatized prisons to enslavement,

813
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 1: human trafficking, uh, immigration, We like your perspective on that

814
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: as well. I know that some of those issues might

815
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: be device And do you hear that, yeah, sort of

816
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: thunder in the distance growing Sarah. It's like there's a

817
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,919
Speaker 1: beat or something that can only mean one thing. Matt

818
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 1: at the time has come. It's a moment with no

819
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: no is that you? It is? I? Well, hello, it's

820
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 1: also any Just to let everybody know. So we may

821
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: have described this before, Ben and matter sort of sequestered

822
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: in this little box and I'm outside in the common area, so,

823
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: you know, just adds to the realism. You're hearing people

824
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: in the background going about their going about their daily routines.

825
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: Here the way to go convincing everyone that we're not

826
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: just yeah or yeah or not real human being, free

827
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 1: brains and separate jars. At least we got separate jars.

828
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: No offense, guys. I think the way you yeah, but

829
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,760
Speaker 1: I need my own jars. You gotta have separate jars.

830
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,720
Speaker 1: So uh so, no, you know, today was a pretty

831
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: heavy topic. Sometimes we have episodes that we can have

832
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 1: a little bit of fun with, like online manipulation, right,

833
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: but this one, this one was this one was a

834
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: little bit different, and I don't know if we if

835
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: we've done it justice, but I wanted to ask you

836
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: have you had any personal experience with with something like

837
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: human trafficking or seeing something because I'll be honest, I

838
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: know we're a family show, so I'm not gonna talk

839
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: too too much about this. Oh, Matt, you're right, Matt's

840
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: giving me a look and a slow nod. We're not

841
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: exactly a family show. We do talk about stuff like slavery.

842
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: But if you live in a city of any comp

843
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: of any size, then odds are that you have passed

844
00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: by and seeing you know, prostitutes. For instance, there there

845
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: are prostitutes in Atlanta that that you can when you

846
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: drive by, you can see someone or you'll hear someone say,

847
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: there's look at these prostitutes. And when we know that

848
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: there is a likelihood that these people have been forced

849
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: into into this occupation, then you know there's this question,

850
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: like what can we do if anything? Right? Like, I

851
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. No, I'm looking for your perspective because

852
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: I I feel like in order of reasonableness, it goes you,

853
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:41,439
Speaker 1: Matt and me. Yeah right, hierarchy's a little twisted there.

854
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that you're not the most reasonable, just

855
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 1: I don't like being second. I should definitely be last

856
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: in that list. But okay, wait, where was that again?

857
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: You were the first? Were the most reasonable? And okay,

858
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: all right, I'll take it. Sure you like the most diplomatic? Yeah, no,

859
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: I mean I've I've definitely never experienced anything firsthand. UM.

860
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: You know, seen documentaries and there was a fantastic season

861
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: of The Wire. It's sort of like a one that's

862
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: largely people don't like as much, but I think it's

863
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: probably my favorite one where it's all about the ports

864
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: and the two kings. He was season two and there's

865
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, the whole thing where they're these shipping containers

866
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: with um. I think they're Eastern European UM women that

867
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: have been suffocated in there. And I mean that's certainly

868
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: it was based on some real news stories that came out. UM,

869
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: and that's pretty horrific. I don't really know what else

870
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: to say about it. The whole concept is pretty horrific.

871
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: And the fact that, like you say, there are more

872
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 1: people enslave today than ever, that's pretty it's pretty dreary statistic. Well,

873
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 1: then what could be done, what if anything could be

874
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: done to eliminate yes? Mentality? Its like what you guys

875
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: are talking about, Like, you know, it's like people are

876
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: raising these environments and they grow to see it as

877
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 1: being a norm, and then then they they maybe they

878
00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:59,919
Speaker 1: were abused in that way themselves, and so they choose

879
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: to abuse others in that way, you know. And it's

880
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: like if you can't totally just get rid of that mentality,

881
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: in that way of looking at people as just a

882
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: means to an end, then it's hard. And I don't

883
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: know how you get rid of a problem like that,

884
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: And and there's so many ways to do it now

885
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: with the internet and um organized crime, and it's just

886
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 1: it just seems like it's just got the potential to

887
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: be so prevalent, and I just don't know how. I

888
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I hate to sound like i'm,

889
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 1: you know, at a loss, but I kind of am.

890
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: It's it's a. It's a really big, big problem. It's

891
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: very scary. Maybe maybe the in my opinion that and

892
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how this would happen. The best way

893
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: to combat this thing would be to eliminate the economic

894
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: incentive if it is you know, people often do things,

895
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: sure because of culture, but if it is more profitable

896
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: to do something else, then that behavior will likely change.

897
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: Because we live in a world that currently worships, you know,

898
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: a money regime, which you know, may may look just

899
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: as silly and stupid thousands of years in the future.

900
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 1: I think it most certainly will. So listeners, Uh, we

901
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: would like to hear what you think. As as we

902
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 1: mentioned before, you can find us on Facebook and Twitter.

903
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 1: We also do a live show on a little thing

904
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 1: called Periscope and yeah, yes, the best ways to just

905
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 1: keep tuned into Twitter. I think it sends out a link,

906
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: will send out a link when we start show, and

907
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: we try to give people a little bit of heads

908
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: up if we're gonna do it. Uh. And we also

909
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 1: have a website stuff that once you know where you

910
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 1: can find every podcast we've ever done. We would like

911
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: to hear from you, not necessarily about this episode all that,

912
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: although this is an important topic. Our best episodes, whether

913
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: video or audio, come from you, our listeners, so please

914
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: write in and let us know what you would like

915
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: to hear about in the future, what you think about

916
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: this topic, or if you just want to say hey Matt,

917
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,439
Speaker 1: hey no, hey Ben uh, then we would also still

918
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Our email addresses conspiracy at

919
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. From one on this topic

920
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: another unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff.

921
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: You can also get in touch on Twitter at the

922
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: handle at conspiracy stuff.