1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: How does a murder that theoretically occurred decades ago rear 2 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: its ugly head and a court of law now today 3 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: and yet another seemingly unrelated murder. I'm talking about the 4 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: murders of two beautiful women. One Kathy Durst, her body 5 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: has never been found, second Susan Berman. The only link 6 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: between these two women a multi millionaire Robert Durst, who 7 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: has somehow managed to elude police, prosecutors, elected district attorneys 8 00:00:49,080 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: for decades. The reality is, if it weren't for a 9 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: Netflix series called Jeans, this may never have been brought 10 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: to light. Why Why can somebody tell me why I 11 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: have to rely on a streaming service to get justice 12 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: in two murders that we know of? Again, thank you 13 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation in series 14 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: X one eleven. Take a listen to this you wave 15 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: reading a hundred poundsfold figure. Not guilty we entered. I'm 16 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: willing to wait, right, I do want to say here 17 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: is now I am not guilty. I cannot killed who murder? 18 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: Thank you? And do you in fact we have those 19 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: writers at this time? Yes, okay, that's interesting. You were 20 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: hearing Robert Durst? Are the preliminary hearing in an LA courtroom. 21 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: But now I want you to listen to our cut twelve. 22 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: This is from HBO's The Jinks. Oh okay, it's HBO, 23 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: not Netflix. HBO's The Jinks, The Life and deaths of 24 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: Robert Durst. Now remember you just heard him under oath 25 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: in a court of law. Tell a judge I am 26 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: not yelty. Now listen carefully because in this sound Durst, 27 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: it's whispering. It's funny when you keep your microphone on 28 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: when you go to the bathroom, they hear everything, including 29 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: Robert Durst, who as I kill them all? Of course, 30 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: now I've only mentioned so far two women that I 31 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: believe Robert Durst murdered. Kathy Durst. I think he told 32 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: his then best friend Susan Burman about it, and then 33 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: she decides years later to go public with that information. 34 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: She ends up dead. Oh I left out another dead person, 35 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: mister Black. Morris Black lived across the hall from Durst 36 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: in a flop house in Texas. His body was found 37 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: minus a head, in Galveston Bay. Durst admits he did that. 38 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: So now the talent's up to three. Are there more? 39 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: Why has this guy never done hard jail? Time. Why 40 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: do I have to rely on HBO to get justice? Well, 41 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: that's a whole another can of arms. You were hearing 42 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: that preliminary hearing in LA and HBO's the Jenks. Let 43 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: me introduce you an all star panel to try and 44 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: make sense of all of this. First of all, veteran 45 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: defense attorney, Atlanta trial lawyer who practices all over the country, 46 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: Randy Kessler, also Emery Law School professor and author of Divorce, 47 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: Protect Yourself, Your Kids, in your Future. Man, if only 48 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: Kathy Durst had saw you out before she ended up dead, 49 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: her body disposed it. Don't start with me that there's 50 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: not a body, so there's not a case, Kessler, Just 51 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: save it. Just five minutes with me. Also, yeah, yeah, yeah, 52 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: I know where you're going with me now. Psychologists joining 53 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: us out of Manhattan. Karen Start Karen with a C 54 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: at Karen Start dot com. And boy, do we need 55 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: a shrink. Doctor Todd M. Barr, Deputy medical Examiner, Forensic 56 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: pathologists joining us out of Cleveland, author of Thin Places, 57 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: Essays from Jordan Kisner. You can find him at Todd Barr, 58 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: m E. Jennifer Shinn joining US forensics scientists. Former director 59 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: San Diego PD Crime Lab at Jen Schen Forensics dot com. 60 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: But right now, how j Crime online dot com investigative 61 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: reporter Levi Paige Levi, thank you for being with us. 62 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: Right now, in a court of law, a murder trial 63 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: is going forward in the death of long time bestie 64 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: Robert Durst, Susan Berman. But this really dates way way back. 65 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: It dates back to the death or the disappearance of 66 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: his wife, Kathy Durst. Tell me about that, Levi page. So, Nancy, 67 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: this is January nineteen eighty two. January thirty first, nineteen 68 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: eighty two, Kathy Durst was at a party in Connecticut 69 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: with friends and she got a telephone call and she 70 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: was very upset. After the telephone call, people at the 71 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: party said that Robert Durst, her husband, called her and 72 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: was very angry. So she says, I gotta go home. 73 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: And when she was leaving, on her way out, she 74 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: told her friends, I'm afraid of what body may do. Okay, 75 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: hold on right there, leave a page. Let me go 76 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: to you. Karen Stark, New York psychologist. Unless somebody is 77 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: going to the hospital, or they're dead or gushing blood 78 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: at the house, or there's a fire, who and the 79 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: Hey what guy calls his wife to get together with 80 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: her girlfriends and says, you get your framework home right now, 81 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: and she suddenly puts on her coat and leaves. I mean, 82 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: somebody better be close to death before A guy pulls 83 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: the wife out of a party and tells her to 84 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: march herself home, and she's scared, and she doesn't. And 85 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: she said to her friend that she was scared. Nancy. 86 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: She said that if something happens to me, you know, 87 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: something to the effect of, checkout Robert. And that's not 88 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: unusual for this guy. She was afraid of him. He 89 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: didn't have any boundaries. He was somebody who would do 90 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: whatever he wanted. You know why, because of all that money. 91 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: Karen's dark. He was so entitled. And there are a 92 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: lot of allegations of this whole family closing ranks to 93 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: cover up not only what Durst did, but to cover 94 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: up their own cover up. Guys, take a listen to 95 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: our cut to our friend Keith Morrison at CBS. He 96 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: has gone hard inside. I really think so. Bob coming 97 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: to suicide he was seven years old and it was 98 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: a devastating experience for Bob. And the Stewart introduced Bob 99 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: to a young woman that this whold, twisted tale was 100 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: set in motion. I was seven fifty second Street on 101 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: the second floor, and Kathy was living on the third floor, 102 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: and Bob own the building he used to come and 103 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: collect for. Kathy was Kathy McCormick, Stewart's young and beautiful 104 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: upstairs neighbor. He was like Prince Charming and the princess. 105 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: Kathy was the love of his life. Crime stories with 106 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. So it started off as seemingly a fairy tale, 107 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: quickly took a dark turn. Listen, she became more independent. 108 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: Wasn't the fairy tale anymore? No? In fact, Kathy's brother 109 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: Jim told us it was one of like a horrible 110 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: there's a dark side of Bob that you was fairly 111 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: well camouflaged when they were first going out and get married, 112 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: but escalated ultimately into psychological abuse, economic abuse, and physical abuse. 113 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: Kathy warned all of us that if anything ever happened, 114 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: looked Bob, Bob did it, don't let him get away 115 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: with it. Then, in nineteen eighty two, Kathy Durst disappeared. 116 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: How did he take it? You know? He asked if 117 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: we had seen her, if we heard anything. If we 118 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: knew anything, well they didn't, No one did. Bob was 119 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: typically almost detached in his demeanor, you know, almost I 120 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: don't know, not saying guy, I don't know anything. So 121 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: leavi page. After that party, was Kathy Durst ever seen 122 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: alive again by anyone other than Robert Durst? So Nancy 123 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: after the party, Robert Durst claims that she came home 124 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: to Westchester County, New York, where they had a home, 125 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: and they got into an argument and he reported her 126 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: missing five days after. Well, wait a minute, wait, something 127 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: happened right there. They had an argument and what he 128 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: says that he took her to the train station and 129 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: she went to their apartment in Manhattan. Okay, Now, wasn't 130 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: Kathy Durst in school at the time, in college, Yes, 131 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: Albert Einstein School of Medicine in the Bronx. She was 132 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: studying to become a pediatrician. Yeah. By all accounts, Kathy 133 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: McCormick Durst was pretty brilliant. So she, according to Durst, 134 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: goes to the apartment and he stays out of Westchester. 135 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: But nobody ever sees her go into the building, do they. Well, 136 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: there was a dorman, Rafael Pretto who says that he 137 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: worked at that building for thirty seven years, he knew Kathy. 138 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: He did not see her January thirty first, but there 139 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: is an elevator operator named Eddie Lopez who told police 140 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: at the time that he did see her alive January 141 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: thirty first, nineteen eighty two. However, but the doorman, Rafael Pretto, 142 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: says he's not reliable, that he was a drinker and 143 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: was untrustworthy, and that he later told him I'm not 144 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: so sure I saw Kathy that night. I don't think 145 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: I told police the truth when cops go into the apartment, 146 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: was there any evidence that Kathy had ever been there? 147 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: Not that we know of Nancy. We know that On 148 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: February first, nineteen eighty two, doctor Cooperman, who worked at 149 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: the College Albert Einstein School of Medicine in the Bronx, 150 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: said that he got a telephone call from someone claiming 151 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: to be Kathy Durst, but it didn't really sound like her, 152 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: and she said, I'm sick, I have diarrhea, I have 153 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: a headache. I can't make it. And it was her 154 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: first day for pediatric clerkship in her final year of 155 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: medical school, and Robert Durst gave an interview to the 156 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: Jinks producers and when he was talking to them, he 157 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: flipped up and said Susan Berman was possibly posing as 158 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: Kathy Durst because that call was made February first, And 159 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: then he later said, well, he would never do that. 160 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: So you know, to you, Randy Kessler, a veteran trial lawyer, 161 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: there's a reason that you love the Fifth Amendment so much, 162 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: where defendants have the want right to remain silent, and 163 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: the constitution protects defendants from overbearing by the state, by investigators, 164 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 1: by police, but it does not protect you from gabbing 165 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: to HBO. The reason you love a hot mic mention 166 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: because that's what happens. You will get overconfident. I think 167 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: if I just keep it together when I'm in front 168 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: of a judge or when I'm on camera and they 169 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: forget and the truth comes out. It's interesting how the 170 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: truth comes out and you're opening You said, why do 171 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: you have to rely on TV channels and networks to 172 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: get a conviction or get an accusation going? This is 173 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: exactly why it's a benefit. You know, just New Davia's 174 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: modern age, people say things when they think you're not 175 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: being heard. You're right, no protection there. So he actually 176 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: slips up leavi page and blurts out that his best 177 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: friend Susan Berman likely posed as Kathy calling in sick 178 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: to school. Yes, and then he took it back. He 179 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: recanted that time. He took it back. Yeah, Okay, he 180 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: took it back. Okay, Actually that's not an objection under 181 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: the rules of evidence. You can't take it back once 182 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: you already said it. So where does his family stand 183 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: in all of this? And what are the theories about 184 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: how he got rid of Kathy Durst's body? What do 185 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: we think happened to her body? Levi, Her body's never 186 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: been found, like you said, Nancy. But just to give 187 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: a little backstory, Joseph Durst as his father, he ran 188 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: a real estate company called the Durst Organization. It was 189 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: a competitor of Donald Trump's organization in real estate in 190 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: New York. And he left Robert Durst one hundred million 191 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: dollars in the inheritance after he passed away. So it's 192 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: been alleged that Robert Durst could have possibly did what 193 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: he did to Robert Black, his neighbor in Texas, which 194 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: is Morris Blast. Remember the body, and yes, Morris Black 195 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: dismember he possibly dismembered the body of Kathy Durst as well. Guys, 196 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: would you cover up for your own family member if 197 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: you knew they had committed murder? Take a listen to 198 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 1: Robert Abram's lawyer for Kathy Durst's family. So let me 199 00:13:53,480 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: ask you this, Yester, Robert murder Cassie, along with their 200 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: father and sister. Douglas and Tom lay it up closed 201 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: drinkings and I'll throw the cover of Cathy's murder. So 202 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: you may wonder why, all of a sudden, after decades 203 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: forty is the Douglas decide to share this information with 204 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: Los Angeles prosecutors. The answer is simple. However, out of 205 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: respect to the ongoing investigation of the Wizard's district attorney, 206 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: I will not discuss Douglas's motivation at this time. Husband 207 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: to say, follow the money, money, money, money to doctor 208 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: Todd and Barr, deputy medical examiner joining us out of Cleveland. 209 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, Doctor Barr. You've seen 210 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: a lot of dead bodies, you know. Is there any 211 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: way to estimate how many murderers happen because of money? 212 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: You got money, You've got sex, You've got revenge. You've 213 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: got power, but money seems to be the love of money, 214 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: the root of all evils. A lot of dead bodies 215 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: because of money. Oh, absolutely, Inheritance, divorce affairs, you know, 216 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: you name it. You know what's interesting to Jennifer Shin 217 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: forensics scientists, former director San Diego PD Crime Lab. You 218 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: can find her a jenshen Forensics dot com. Jim, I 219 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: really do not believe a satisfactory search was done of 220 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: Robert durst home at the time. Kathy Durst, his young 221 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: wife nine years younger than him, goes missing. She goes 222 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: home from that party. He claims he took her to 223 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: the bus to the train station for about an hour 224 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: ride into the city. She had planned to go to school, 225 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: and I don't think she ever left that home as 226 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: a matter of fact. Prosecutors say that they can demonstrate 227 00:15:54,520 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: Kathy Durst never left that suburban home, that they also 228 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: have video evidence of Robert Durst stating quote, I remember 229 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: dragging her by her hair, grabbing her arm, saying the 230 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: hair pulling wasn't even the worst. So he admits to 231 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: beating her and abusing her. And now she goes missing. 232 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: What should have happened at his home? Yeah, that's a 233 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: great question. And you know, if you don't do a 234 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: very thorough search of the alleged crime scene at the time, 235 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: you're going to miss vital evidence that can help you 236 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: sell the case and present the case at a later time. So, 237 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: you know, I would just be very surprised if there 238 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: was a pretty violent end to poor Kathy. So there 239 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: should have been evidence at the house. And you know, 240 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: and one of the things you said about the video evidence, 241 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: you know, in today's world, it would have been very 242 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: easy to show that where his car had gone, you know, 243 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: if he had left, had she gone with him, had 244 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: she gone towards the train station, traffic cameras, all that stuff. 245 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: There would have been a lot more evidence today's world. 246 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, to your point, they actually should have done 247 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: a very thorough job at the alleged crime scene in 248 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: order to find the evidence they needed. Never happened. He 249 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: was never prosecuted and left to walk free, hence the 250 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: death of his neighbor Morris Black in Texas and the 251 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: death of his so called best friend, Susan Burman. Crime 252 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Now I'm slowly inching you forward 253 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: to the trial that's going on right now. Prosecutors alleged 254 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:46,479 Speaker 1: just days after his wife Kathy Durst murder, Robert Durst 255 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: unlisted his then best friend to help cover it up, 256 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: to act as his media spokes for our son person 257 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: cover up the killing, and at one point even posing 258 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: as his wife Kathy Durst in a phone call to 259 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: the medical school to explain why she wasn't there. Remember 260 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: that name, Susan Berman, why you take to listen to 261 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: our friend at forty eight hours Aaron Moriarney. This individual 262 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: was listed as a secret witness. In fact, he came 263 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: to a back door in the courtroom and he was 264 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: accompanied by protection guards because he's afraid that because Durst 265 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: still has one hundred million dollars, that he could be 266 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: killed if he comes. This is a long time friend 267 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: of Robert Durst. He worked and his wife still works 268 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: for the Durst Realty Company here in New York Real 269 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: estate company in New York. And he says there'll be 270 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: a lot of questions raised about this, but he says 271 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: that Susan Burman number one told him that Durst killed 272 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: his first wife. Kathy said that. And he even says 273 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,239 Speaker 1: at a dinner Durst said to him in reference to 274 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: Susan Berman, the victim in this case, that it was 275 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: either her or me, insinuating that he may have killed 276 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: did kill Susan Berman. Again to you, Randy Castler, veteran 277 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: trial lawyer, the constitution can protect you when the police 278 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: are involved, but not when you gab incessantly at dinner parties, 279 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: when you're mic jup speaking to HBO. I mean, these 280 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: statements alone, in my mind are damning, Randy, I think 281 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: they are damning. The question is are they damning beyond 282 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: a reason hold doubt? And that is the problem. You're 283 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: absolutely right, no protection, no Fifth Amendment. You can't say 284 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: I didn't know this was going to be used against me. 285 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter he said it. It's rest, just diet, 286 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: it's whatever exception you want. It's a mission against interest. 287 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: There are all sorts of ways that it gets into evidence. 288 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: The question, of course, still, was he saying this for effect? 289 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: He liked the attention, He said, Oh my goodness, did 290 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: you really just say that? Got to figure out why 291 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: he said he killed his wife? Okay, I'll leave that 292 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: to a shrink. But what we're hearing is evidence as 293 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: to why he killed Susan Burman. A long story short 294 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: nineteen years after Kathy Durst murder, prosecutors reopened the case 295 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: and just as they are about to interview this longtime friend, 296 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: Susan Burman, Bam, she ends up dead. Okay, straight out 297 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: to you, Levi page How does Burman die? So? Susan 298 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: Burman was Robert Durst friend. They met in college, UCLA, 299 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: and she was fifty five when she was shot in 300 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: the back of the head Christmas Eve at her home 301 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: in Benedette, Kenyon. No robbery, no sex attack? Wow, what 302 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: could have been? No signs of struggle. You're right about 303 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: that again. Take a listen, man. She was shot in 304 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: the back of the head, which means that she could 305 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: have opened the door to someone she knew and turned around, 306 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: which would indicate that she trusted this person enough to 307 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: turn around. That's a very good point. Leave a very 308 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: good point. Take a listen to Gary Greenberg, co author 309 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: of Sex and the Serial Killer. Well, actually, when they 310 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: first met, they literally this guy still literally bumped into 311 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: Durst in Manhattan and spilled a soda on him. Was 312 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: with Susan Burman at the time, and they got into 313 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: an altercation, and they nearly got into a pretty serious 314 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: fight and Susan Burman helped break up the fight with 315 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: another friend of Steals, and at that point Susan said 316 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: to him, still, uh he was, you know, explained who 317 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: Robert was. He's a very rich guy and his wife 318 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: was recently murdered, and still and looked at her and 319 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: glared at her, because at that point Kathy Durst was 320 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: just a missing person. So right there, from that initial blunder, 321 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: she corrected herself and very quickly and said, oh, I 322 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: mean that she's missing, but we feared that she's dead. 323 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: But she always apparently feared Durst, and eventually I think 324 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: that fear was proven true. Two or now psychologists joining 325 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: us out of Manhattan, Karen Stark. Karen Stark, of course, 326 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: I'm just as JD. You're the strain. But isn't that 327 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: what they call a Freudian slip? But she says, oh, yes, 328 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: first wife was murdered, and then he looks at her. 329 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 1: She goes, I mean missing, she's missing, not murdered, he said, murdered. 330 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: I think it's more than a Cordians with Nancy, because 331 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: she's been keeping this to herself for such a long 332 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: time that there must have been a part of her 333 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: that wanted to review what it has happened, but I 334 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: also wanted to talk about the fact that she was 335 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: shot in the back of the head. And if you 336 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: look at Mars Black, he was also shot. And it 337 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: makes me when I think about what he did with 338 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: Mars Black, the fact that he cut up his body 339 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: and he was able to get away with it, And 340 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: to me, that's his m That's how he kills. He 341 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: shoots somebody and he likes to cut up the body. 342 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: And I think it could really assume that that's exactly 343 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: what happened to his wife. He does have an m. 344 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: He does have an m O Karen Start, You're absolutely correct. 345 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if the prosecutor will use that at trial. 346 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: Speaking of the trial, that's what's going down right now, 347 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: Robert Durst finally going to trial. How did he escape 348 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: justice in Westchester? And how is he gone on the 349 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: lamp for so long? Susan Burman was murdered years ago. 350 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: I understand LEVI page Climoline dot Com that a letter 351 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: at sent regarding Susan Burman's murder. We'll say a center stage, 352 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: what is the note? After Susan Burman's murder, the Beverly 353 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: Hills Police Department got a letter that was addressed to 354 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: them and it contained Susan Berman's address and it said 355 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: the word cold dabb Now what's important about this letter? 356 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: Police then went to the home and found the body. 357 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: But what's important about it is that Robert Durst had 358 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: misspelled Beverly Hills in that letter. He spelled it b 359 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: E V E R L E. Why putting an extra 360 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: e in there? And he has done that in the past. 361 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: They have gotten writing samples of his in the past, 362 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: and he has misspelled it that exact same way in 363 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: the past. And he's now admitted after denying it for 364 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: many years, he's now admitted that he wrote that letter. 365 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: And the note actually says basically goes Susan Burman's house. 366 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: There's a cadaver there, Yes, And he is now claiming 367 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: that he went to her home and discovered the dead 368 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: body and aniced and ran away. Why has this guy 369 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: been walking free all these years? Does nobody in either 370 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: Westchester or LA have the back boon to prosecute him? 371 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about 372 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: a case it's been a long time coming. Once again, 373 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: Wealth Vice privilege. Robert Durst has killed three people that 374 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: I know of? Are there others? We may never know that? 375 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: But why why? Now? Take a listen to Maurice Dubois 376 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: at CBS. After a long break through to the pandemic, 377 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: the Robert Durst murder trial has restarted in California. Prosecutors 378 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: say the now seventy eight year old Durst shandon killed 379 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: his best friend Susan Burman back in two thousand to 380 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: prevent her from talking about the nineteen eighty two disappearance 381 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: of Durst's wife, Cathy. She vanished from their northern Westchester 382 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: home and is presumed dead today. A Laurie, representing her siblings, 383 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: said there's a wide ranging cover up of what happened 384 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: to Kathy Durst to make it appear that Cassie returned 385 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: to New York City and then voluntarily abandoned him, her family, 386 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: her friends, a medical school, education, and everything in this 387 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: world that she loved. Durst has said he did not 388 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: kill a Burman. The trial is expected to last for 389 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: at least four months. I want to go to doctor 390 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 1: Todd m a Bar deputy medical examiner, pathologist joining us 391 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: out of Cleveland and author doctor Barr, thank you for 392 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: being with us. What do you make of the murder 393 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 1: of Susan Burman the gunshot wound, single gunshot wound to 394 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: the back of the head. Well, thank you, Nancy. This 395 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: is actually a very disturbing case in my opinion, whereby 396 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: I know that Susan Burman was brought up in a 397 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: mob family and was very paranoid about her safety and 398 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: what went to a great length to protect herself from intruders, 399 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: and she had lots of lock clunter doors, so to 400 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,360 Speaker 1: have somebody walk into her home, she clearly knew who 401 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: this person was. And as she's walking into her home 402 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: and she shot point blank in the back of the head. 403 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: That's an execution style murder. And this is clearly something 404 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: to silence the person that you don't want them to speak, 405 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: and it's just it's quite disturbing. And then the fact 406 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: that this note appears shows that he had some affection 407 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: for this person. If it was in fact Robert Durst 408 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: who wrote that note, and with the green ink and all, 409 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: it seems very likely and it sounds like you may 410 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: have even confessed to writing that note wanting to have 411 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: her body disposed her properly. And not sit there riting 412 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: in a home because he cared about him. We understand 413 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: that she was harder with a nine a nine millimeter. 414 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: How would that be known, doctor, either from the shell 415 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: casing or from a bullet recovered from inside of her head? Now, 416 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: isn't it true? Jennifer Shamfonsick signed is based on what 417 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: doctor Barr has just said. We are assuming that the 418 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: bullet has been retrieved. That a bullet can be matched 419 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: to a murder weapon, just like a fingerprint. Yes, no, 420 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: yes it can. That's a great point. How well, it's 421 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: kind of the same concept. You take very specific photographs 422 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: of the markings, very tiny markings on the cartridge case, 423 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: and then you can put those If you photograph every 424 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: single cartridge case an exact same way, then you put 425 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: it in a database, and then you run those photos 426 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: against the photos of all the other tuning scenes that 427 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: you have. And if you have the same kind of 428 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: markings on two separate cartridges from two different scenes, then 429 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: you can say that those two came from the same weapon. 430 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: It's a great way to connect shooting cases. We also 431 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: know to you, Randy Caster, that the prosecutor says he 432 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: will prove Berman was quote unafraid of her killer, and 433 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: that she had turned her back to the killer at 434 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,239 Speaker 1: the time she was murdered. How will they prove that, 435 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: you know that those stuff that they can figure out 436 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: that there's no way an a million and that I 437 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: can figure out those folks like well what I can't 438 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: hear you, they're folks like Joe Scott Morgan that will 439 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: be able to analyze that. We'll look at it and 440 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: say that the angle of the bullet, the fact the bullet, 441 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: you know, why would she be not facing him? What 442 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: happened three minutes before the shooting. They may not be 443 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: able to figure out, but exactly then and there. It's 444 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: amazing with forensics can do it. It is hard, but 445 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: certainly her back was to him, and then we would 446 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: prove that at a minimum. You know, I'm wondering if 447 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: it wasn't the fact leavi page as you had intimated earlier, 448 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: that where her body was found, it would suggest she 449 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: had just closed the door and was, for instance, walking 450 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: into her kitchen or walking into her dan area, and 451 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: that's where her body was found, as if she had 452 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: just let someone in. Yes, that's correct, Nancy, Her body 453 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: was found not that far from the door, and that 454 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: would indicate that she had let someone in that she 455 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: knew and that she trusted, and Robert Durst was one 456 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: of the few people that she was very close with. 457 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: And isn't it true it happened on Christmas Eve? Christmas 458 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: Eve two thousand and I would think Karen Stark psychologists 459 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: joining us out of Manhattan, that if she went to 460 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: the door and she sees Robert Durst is there, it's 461 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: Christmas Eve, you would expect, oh, it's a visit from 462 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: her friend and let him in. Well, I'm not just 463 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: let him in that feel completely relaxed about letting him 464 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: in so that she could turn her back to true. 465 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: But I also want to say, Nancy, that the fact 466 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: that she shot her friend behind, that that she shot 467 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: from behind her to that whoever that person was, they 468 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: didn't want to look at her. They sprinted. So the 469 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: neighbor was shot in the space in the front. But 470 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: supposedly he had affection for Susan. She was his best 471 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: friend for many years, so it was a lot easier 472 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: for him in this case to shoot from behind and 473 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: not look at her. Why has it taken so long 474 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: to get Durst in the court of law taken. Listen 475 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: to our friends at CBSLA. Prosecutors say Durst changed his 476 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: story before trial about a note that led police to 477 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: Burman's body, which was found in her Benedict to Kenyon home, 478 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: but they say the motivation has always been to cover 479 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: up his wife's murder. He didn't kill her because he 480 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: disliked her. He killed her out of survival. Yesterday, the 481 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: judge said that Robert Durst was unwilling to appear in 482 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: court day. The defendant was told that this trial will 483 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: move forward with or without him unless there is a 484 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: medical condition that prevents him from being transported from county jail. Oh, 485 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: dear Lord in heaven. Is he claiming he's too ill 486 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: to come to court? Is that really happening? Fine, he 487 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: can be tried in absentia. You ever done that, Randy Casser? 488 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: I have I got a conviction to you? By the way, Yeah, 489 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: I've had people, and we've had when my mind doesn't 490 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: show up or the other side doesn't show up, you know, 491 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: the evidence is there. It doesn't always need to have 492 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: the person here, but shurely not to be there of course. Well, 493 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: under the law, typically at the time the jury is 494 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: impaneled is when you have to have the defendant there. 495 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: So if a jury was impaneled, you know, sworn in, 496 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: and then the defendant takes off, which is what happened 497 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: in my case. It was a dope lord. He was 498 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: there for the journey and paneling. I guess my wishes. 499 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: Of course, he was out on bond and never came back, 500 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,879 Speaker 1: so we just went right I had and tried him. 501 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: I had a field day. I go stand behind his 502 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 1: empty chair and talk about it was wonderful here Durst 503 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: maybe refusing to come to court. He's trying to stick out. 504 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: That's only going to hurt him, wouldn't you agree, Randy Kessler, Well, 505 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: I've been a friend of years. In month recently got 506 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: an acquittal for the person who the middle of the 507 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: trial left because they were worried about getting connected. You 508 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: never know with the jury, but it absolutely is better 509 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: for the prosecution to be able to say, you know, 510 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: wink wink, if he was really innocent, he'd be here 511 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,919 Speaker 1: protesting his innocence. He's on the run, just like he's 512 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: been on the run for the law for the last 513 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: ten years. There's a lot you can do without saying it. 514 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: I simply looking at the chair, like you said, standing 515 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: behind the chair, putting your hand on the chair. They 516 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: know what's going on. Innocent people don't run away from justice. 517 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: You know. If only I could use your words against 518 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: you when you're trying your next criminal case, but sad way, 519 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: I can't. The trial is ongoing, and we wait for 520 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: justice finally to unfold Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off 521 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,