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Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound On

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Speaker 1: talking about a huge issue. Here is investment in marginalized community.

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Speaker 1: They want to deconstructive package and cherry pick what they

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Speaker 1: like what they don't like. China is surgeon powered with

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Speaker 1: Cador investors. Bloomberg sound On the insiders, the influencers, the insides,

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Speaker 1: siding Thomas again and again he will unite the country.

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Speaker 1: Who do you think Fiden has to watch in terms

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Speaker 1: of moderate defectors. Infrastructure has always been by part of

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg sound On on Bloomberg Radio. All right, I'm

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Speaker 1: Jack Fitzpatrick here at Bloomberg sound On. It's a Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: We've got Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis with us, and

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Speaker 1: let's get straight to the news at the top of

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Speaker 1: the hour, because we've got Congressman John Yarmouth on the

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Speaker 1: line with with us. He's not just representing the Louisville

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Speaker 1: area in the House of Representatives, he is the House

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Speaker 1: Budget Chairman, which makes him the perfect person to talk

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Speaker 1: about budget issues, the reconciliation process, and if Democrats are

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Speaker 1: going to go it alone on infrastructure, all the big

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Speaker 1: news of the day. Congressman I understand it's such a

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Speaker 1: busy time for you. We've got to really get straight

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Speaker 1: to the news. So I'm going to skip all of

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Speaker 1: my questions relating to the upcoming season of The Bachelorette

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Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna ask you about the budget. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. No good to be

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Speaker 1: with you, Jack. So it doesn't look great on infrastructure

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Speaker 1: in terms of a bipartisan series of negotiations. We heard

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Speaker 1: the President say we're done talking to Senator Capital on this.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there's something bipartisan another group of lawmakers, But because

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Speaker 1: you are budget chairman, if Democrats go it alone and

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Speaker 1: want to pass something with a simple majority in the Senate,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna look to you because the budget chairman crafts

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Speaker 1: the outline for that process to to get something through.

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Speaker 1: At this point, have you gotten ahead and done some

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Speaker 1: work on reconciliation instructions or what have you been able

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Speaker 1: to do to sort of lead off of first base

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Speaker 1: if anything at all? Well, Uh, first of all, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me on, Jack. Well, what we've been doing

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Speaker 1: for the last couple of months is uh doing the

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Speaker 1: preliminary work on a budget resolution for a fiscal two

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Speaker 1: and ultimately the reconciliation instructions that will be a part

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Speaker 1: of that budget resolution. So we there's been no decision

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Speaker 1: made as of yet as to what would go into

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Speaker 1: but under reconciliation instructions, we're assuming at this point that

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Speaker 1: everything that the President is proposed in the American Jobs

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Speaker 1: Plan and the American Families Plan will be done by reconciliation.

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Speaker 1: Then if that's what we're preparing for, and then if

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Speaker 1: if there is a bad partisan agreement reached on any

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Speaker 1: part of it, about the infrastructure part, for instance, the

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Speaker 1: hard infrastructure part, then we would just take that out

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Speaker 1: of the instruction. Okay, So what's your deadline to decide

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Speaker 1: whether all of this is going to go through reconciliation? When?

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Speaker 1: When do Democrats need to just figure that out? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, I don't think there's a hard

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Speaker 1: and fast deadline. I think right now, the President's um

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Speaker 1: statement yesterday that he had had given up on the

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Speaker 1: talks with Senator Capito was basically our trigger to to

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Speaker 1: make that assumption that we were going to go it

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Speaker 1: alone on all of it. Now, I know that there's

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Speaker 1: another group talking, and I heard late this afternoon that

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Speaker 1: they had fallen apart based on the revenue uh proposal,

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Speaker 1: and so I just think it's highly unrealistic to believe

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Speaker 1: there's ever gonna be a bad partisan agreement on any

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Speaker 1: of this. So we're going full speed ahead. We we

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Speaker 1: are are we have to get something out of the

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Speaker 1: out of committee and to the floor by the end

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Speaker 1: of September. We have to get it done. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's July. We have to get it and by the

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Speaker 1: August recess. And so that's that's what we're working towards. Okay, Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's that's significant that it is. You're moving forward on

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Speaker 1: the assumption that this isn't gonna work out, and if

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Speaker 1: it's great if it does, but it sounds like you're

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Speaker 1: preparing for it to not work out in case that's

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Speaker 1: the eventuality. UM. I want to ask you about the

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Speaker 1: debt limit as well. Is there a plan on the

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Speaker 1: debt limit? The The formal deadline for that is August

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Speaker 1: feet Do you know how lawmakers are going to address that? Well?

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Speaker 1: I know, and there's a there's a lot of thinking

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Speaker 1: being done and talking at the leadership level. I had

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Speaker 1: a conversation with Secretary Yellen this morning, UM, and she um,

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Speaker 1: you know, said there they don't have definitive plans yet

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Speaker 1: there they don't. They also don't know exactly when how

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Speaker 1: long we go before we run out of money. She

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Speaker 1: could because there are a lot of variables right now

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Speaker 1: with pandemic related spending and so forth. So what what

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Speaker 1: we we will try to avoid is going down to

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Speaker 1: the to the end of the fiscal year and having

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Speaker 1: the dead ceiling issue unresolved and therefore, you know, allowing

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Speaker 1: brinkmanship to be done and possible government shutdown. That's what

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Speaker 1: we have to avoid. Well, should the debt limit, in

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Speaker 1: your opinion, be done through reconciliation or should you insist

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Speaker 1: on trying to get a bipartisan deal on that. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it matters, to tell you the truth, it

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Speaker 1: has to be done. We're not going to default on

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Speaker 1: our obligations. Everybody understands that. I don't think the Republicans

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Speaker 1: have any interest in precipitating a government shutdown. UH. That

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Speaker 1: didn't mode well for them when they did it several

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Speaker 1: years ago. So UM, yeah, I don't. I'm I'm an

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Speaker 1: agnostic on how we do it. That the law allows

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Speaker 1: us to do a separate reconciliation UH process for debt

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Speaker 1: ceiling alone. We may put it in the in the

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Speaker 1: one with the budget resolution. We may just may be

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Speaker 1: able to do a standalone bill that he has bap

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Speaker 1: artists sport. We'll see, because what was gonna have to

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Speaker 1: do is you can't just say, you know, personally, I

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Speaker 1: think we ought to do away with the dead ceiling

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Speaker 1: because you know we've we've basically ignored it for the

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Speaker 1: last eighty years, but not in the years, but eighty

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Speaker 1: eighty or more times in the last uh let's see

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Speaker 1: sixty years, fifty years. Um. But um, we have to

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Speaker 1: set some subsequent limit. So um, or we do or

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Speaker 1: we do a short term extension to get us past

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Speaker 1: the fiscal year, and um, those negotiations again, it has

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Speaker 1: to be done. Um. Leadership will basically tell me how

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Speaker 1: they want to do it. Chairman, I was wondering if

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Speaker 1: I could get back to a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: revenue question, even though your budget Chairman, I know this

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Speaker 1: is always a means question, but uh, I'm looking at this,

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Speaker 1: you know, funding of a lot of these initiatives, and

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Speaker 1: you know they're really significant, right this administration is going big.

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Speaker 1: The most recent Endless Frontier Act just you know, committed

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Speaker 1: over two hundred fifty billion dollars um. The House Transportation

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Speaker 1: committees already marked up five hundred and fifty billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in transportation funds. Uh. We're talking about a hundred million

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Speaker 1: new vaccines to be sent overseas. That's that check's got

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Speaker 1: to get written. And I guess when I look at

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Speaker 1: this infrastructure bill, I mean, right now, the current deal

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Speaker 1: on the table for one point two trillion is only

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty billion and new spending. And I

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Speaker 1: mean it just seems to me it wouldn't be that

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Speaker 1: difficult to find a two d fifty billion dollar uh

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Speaker 1: pocket that could be put towards this, uh, this this

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Speaker 1: massive build for our infrastructure. Is is there any sense

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Speaker 1: that that this isn't It's not as hard as you

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Speaker 1: think it is. It's it's hard because the lines have

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Speaker 1: been drawn on on a philosophical basis and not on

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Speaker 1: a pragmatic basis. That the Republicans have basically said, we're

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Speaker 1: not going to give up any of the cuts that

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Speaker 1: we made in and um, you know, Democrats say, on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, we want the tax code to better

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Speaker 1: reflect the realities of the of the world, and that

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Speaker 1: corporations like sad X, which make their their entire business

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Speaker 1: model predicated on infrastructure and they pay zero tax rate

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Speaker 1: that they might want to contribute part of that that investment. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: it's if it were just dollars, it would be easy.

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Speaker 1: It's unfortunately it's just not dollars here. So Congressman, I

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Speaker 1: do want to ask on the spending front. You've talked

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Speaker 1: before about the difficulty of hurting the cats in the

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Speaker 1: House Democratic Caucus on how much money to give the military. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There are progressives have complained that Biden at President Biden

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Speaker 1: didn't propose an actual cut to defense spending. Republicans want

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Speaker 1: a bigger increase. Really, I just want to know, do

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Speaker 1: you think that any of the progressives are being a

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Speaker 1: little unrealistic because it will need bipartisan support to fund

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Speaker 1: the government, or how do you see this panning out

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Speaker 1: with the defense spending debate. Well, I've heard a little

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Speaker 1: bit of um of discontent about the one point six

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Speaker 1: increase in defense spending. Yes, there are a number of

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Speaker 1: our caucus who would like to seek actual UH cuts

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Speaker 1: in defense. UM. But I think on the other side,

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Speaker 1: they realized that the increases in non defense spending, which

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Speaker 1: is where most of democratic priorities are most liberal Democratic

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Speaker 1: priorities is the biggest that we've had in my memory,

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Speaker 1: certainly in relation to defense spending. So I think they

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Speaker 1: will realize in the final analysis that uh, this is

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Speaker 1: a that's a trade worth making, that the the the

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Speaker 1: increases in the spending they really care care about are

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Speaker 1: are worth giving a just a nominal increase to defense,

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Speaker 1: which basically goes to payroll increases for the O our

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Speaker 1: men and women in uniform. I will say, um, one

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Speaker 1: other thing, and that is that I think there is

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Speaker 1: a growing realization in the Democratic caucus that we are

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Speaker 1: essentially all Joe mansion because of our because of our

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Speaker 1: sim margins, we we don't have the luxury of being independent.

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Speaker 1: That if we're gonna get anything done, anything past, if

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Speaker 1: we're gonna we're all gonna have to unify behind uh

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Speaker 1: one one package. And I think that that's what will

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Speaker 1: I think that's the mentality that will guide us and

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Speaker 1: we'll end up passing this uh this budget. Congressman, one

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Speaker 1: last quick one for you to to put a bow

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Speaker 1: on this, I asked Senator Richard Shelby, the top Republican

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Speaker 1: on Senator appropriations, will play a pretty key role in

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Speaker 1: funding talks later in the year. How he thinks things

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Speaker 1: are going to go. There's a government funding deadline of September,

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Speaker 1: he says. Not only does he expect to rely on

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Speaker 1: a stop gap, it's probably gonna be multiple stop gaps,

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Speaker 1: could be into December. Do you agree or is there

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Speaker 1: any chance that we have a government funding deal in September?

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Speaker 1: Is there any chance? Yes? Is there a real chance?

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Speaker 1: And no, I mean the odds are against sich for sure,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get all but we're gonna get all of

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Speaker 1: our spending bills done before the August reset. The Senate

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Speaker 1: does not have a history of getting their work done

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Speaker 1: on time, um, and so so it would be unrealistic

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Speaker 1: to think that the Senate and the House, if we

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Speaker 1: pass our appropriations bill, that the Senate could do that

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Speaker 1: and then we could reconcile the differences before the end

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Speaker 1: of September. I think it's highly unlikely. So yes, uh,

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Speaker 1: we're most likely going to end up with a continuing resolution. Okay, Congressman,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. I think we

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Speaker 1: went a little over your time, and I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: the uh, the candid uh evaluation of what the rest

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Speaker 1: of this fiscal year is going to look like. Uh,

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Speaker 1: as we wait for our colleague over a Bloomberg TV

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Speaker 1: Joe Wisenthal to uh to come in actually with a

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Speaker 1: really interesting sounding interview with Senator Elizabeth Warren on bitcoin

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Speaker 1: and cryptocurrencies, which will take you to Rick real quick.

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Speaker 1: What's your headline from this interview with the budget chairman? Well,

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Speaker 1: I I think it's interesting that, uh, you know, we

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Speaker 1: we we have a budget getting produced in the House

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Speaker 1: that is as dislocated as it is in the Senate,

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Speaker 1: you know, compared to what they're doing, and and that's

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Speaker 1: not unusual in the normal budget process. Um, what's interesting

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Speaker 1: is that I think this chairman is using the time

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Speaker 1: he has to get his budget done in a way,

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Speaker 1: I think to help leverage the Democrats in the Senate

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Speaker 1: to try and get some of these things passed. And

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Speaker 1: and I think that that's a smart caucus strategy, you know,

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Speaker 1: between the House and the Senate. But uh, but the

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Speaker 1: question is, you know, is the Senate got enough horses

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Speaker 1: Democrat votes to actually produce anything in line with what

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Speaker 1: he's doing in the House. And I suspect it's probably

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Speaker 1: pretty very hard coming up we're gonna go to Joe

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Speaker 1: Wisenthal with Senator Elizabeth Warren. Let's go to that live

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Speaker 1: interview now, all right, welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joe Wisenthal. I want to welcome right now for more

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Speaker 1: Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. Listen hearing today on digital

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Speaker 1: currencies and Central Bank digital currencies. Senator Warren, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Let's start with like the

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Speaker 1: digital currencies that are going up and down every day

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Speaker 1: a lot. You started the hearing with some pretty harsh

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Speaker 1: words for them, saying they've failed to deliver on some

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Speaker 1: of the promises of a more financial a more inclusive

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Speaker 1: financial system. They're volatile, they're not good for spending. In

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Speaker 1: your view is do they need to be regulated further

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Speaker 1: and is there something specific in mind that you have

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Speaker 1: that would sort of bring this area under control better.

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Speaker 1: So this was our first hearing on digital currencies, and

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Speaker 1: we had a chance to talk with experts, bring in

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Speaker 1: a lot of senators around it. But the bottom line

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Speaker 1: was that what's happening right now in cryptocurrency like bitcoin

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Speaker 1: and doge coin, it's wild West out there, and it

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Speaker 1: makes it not a good way to buy and sell

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Speaker 1: things and not a good investment and an environmental disaster.

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Speaker 1: So do we need some regulation around this? You bet

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Speaker 1: we do in your view? Whose purview should this fall under?

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Speaker 1: And when you say, okay, we need more regulation, do

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Speaker 1: you have something in mind or like a sort of

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Speaker 1: conceptual framework for how regulators should should approach this burgeoning

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Speaker 1: space because you say kind of has a wild West vibe. Well,

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Speaker 1: right now, I think what we need to do is

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Speaker 1: the next round of hearings and investigations since uh, these

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Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies have gone everywhere the and that means we need

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Speaker 1: to bring in the people who have different responsibilities. So

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about the investor aspect that people are

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Speaker 1: buying bitcoin for speculation, uh, you know, if you were

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Speaker 1: buying stock for speculation, you'd be protected by rules against

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Speaker 1: things like pump and dump, but not when you're buying

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Speaker 1: bitcoin for speculation. We need to talk with the sec

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Speaker 1: about that. On the other hand, when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the question about bringing it into our monetary system and

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Speaker 1: UH banks uh either holding bitcoin, that becomes an issue

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Speaker 1: that we need to talk about with the bank regulators.

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Speaker 1: So there are a lot of different pieces to this,

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Speaker 1: UH and I think the answer that we saw today

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Speaker 1: is that right now our regulators and frankly, our Congress

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Speaker 1: is an hour late and a dollar short, and we

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Speaker 1: need to catch up with where these cryptocurrencies are going.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the idea of a digital US dollar,

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Speaker 1: the idea that someone could hold a digital dollar in

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Speaker 1: an online wallet or in a wallet on their phone

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Speaker 1: in some way. Lots of talk about it. It's still

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Speaker 1: kind of unclear to me of if something like that

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Speaker 1: were to be implemented, what the goal would be. What

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Speaker 1: do you think about the idea of, say, a central

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Speaker 1: bank digital currency, and how do you and what do

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Speaker 1: you think the purpose would be if the U S

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Speaker 1: we're do at some point launch one. You know, That's

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Speaker 1: one of the things that came up in this hearing

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Speaker 1: multiple times today. It's that I understand how a digital

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Speaker 1: currency would work. Instead of the United States government printing

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Speaker 1: dollar bills or minting coins, it would, for example, pay

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Speaker 1: a Social Security check by just putting digital money in

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Speaker 1: your wallet. But the question was, what is the problem

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Speaker 1: it's trying to solve, because, as we all know, most

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Speaker 1: of what happens today is digital in the sense that

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Speaker 1: my bank does not hold those dollars physically, right, it

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Speaker 1: has it has a number in a ledger, and when

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Speaker 1: I transfer money to pay on my credit card, they

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Speaker 1: make a transfer that happens electronically. So you really have

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Speaker 1: to kind of think through this. On the other hand,

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Speaker 1: we had some really thoughtful experts who were saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: you may want to integrate this into other systems for

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Speaker 1: payment for international payment. And there are questions about whether

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Speaker 1: or not the United States maintains competitions, say with China

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Speaker 1: that's looking deeply into digital currency. Uh, of course, the

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Speaker 1: Chinese want to be able to track all the purchases

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Speaker 1: of all of their citizens, something we're not looking to

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Speaker 1: do in the United States. But I think the answer

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Speaker 1: there is it's it's on the front edge. And here's

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Speaker 1: what troubles me is that cryptocurrency, the private version, has

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Speaker 1: has swept the earth. Digital currency is not really out

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Speaker 1: of the starting gate yet. And so so you've got

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Speaker 1: this situation where we kind of need to figure out

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Speaker 1: is are we going to try to give digital currency

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Speaker 1: a little boost here, but we really need to keep

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Speaker 1: an eye on digital currency while we're doing. Man, I

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Speaker 1: want to ask you a question, and I think it

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Speaker 1: actually applies both to cryptocurrencies and the idea of a

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Speaker 1: national digital currency. And I'm glad you brought up China

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Speaker 1: and the idea of okay, a system to monitor everyone's transactions,

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Speaker 1: because right now, if you and I wanted to transact online,

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Speaker 1: we would do it through I don't know, PayPal or

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Speaker 1: something like that, and it would be an entity that

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Speaker 1: could look at it. Do you think private transactions should

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Speaker 1: be preserved in some way? This is the thing that

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Speaker 1: people worry about with physical cash disappearing. The idea of

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Speaker 1: transaction privacy. Is this the value that you have in

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Speaker 1: that in some way we should find a way to

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Speaker 1: continue to allow that to exist in the digital space.

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Speaker 1: So I understand the idea behind privacy, and I don't

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Speaker 1: want the federal government tracking how I spend my dollars.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, think about the key feature of

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Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency, and that is secrecy. And it's pretty clear

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Speaker 1: right now that that secrecy really is helpful for drug

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Speaker 1: dealers and for uh uh crypto warriors who are hacking

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Speaker 1: into systems around the world and demanding ransom up because

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Speaker 1: it's a secret way to make payment. Now, the United

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Speaker 1: States has dealt with this traditionally by saying that what

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Speaker 1: happens in checking accounts is secret until someone goes before

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Speaker 1: a judge and gets an order to be able to

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Speaker 1: look at a checking account. That means that checking accounts

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Speaker 1: are not in great ways to transfer money between drug dealers.

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Speaker 1: They are not great ways to collect ransom. And this

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Speaker 1: is one of the concerns about cryptocurrency. There's no equivalent

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Speaker 1: to be able to say, Okay, you can be private

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Speaker 1: nearly all the time, but not so much that you've

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Speaker 1: created a haven for the criminals. And just want to

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Speaker 1: remind viewers and listeners were speaking with Democratic Senator Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Warren of Massachusetts. UH Senator Warren, you know, another sort

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Speaker 1: of theme that runs through all this, and of course

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Speaker 1: a lot of talk in both actually progressive and conservative circles, frankly,

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Speaker 1: is corporate power, and particularly tech corporate power and the

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Speaker 1: power of the Big four, Apple and Facebook. Do you think, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things about digital currencies is

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Speaker 1: they are these decentralized networks, and do you think that

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Speaker 1: this should be something that potentially you could be um

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Speaker 1: enthusiastic about the idea of these sort of like digital

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Speaker 1: decentralized networks that aren't necessarily under the control of any

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Speaker 1: anyone company. Wow, you took a turn. I didn't expect

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Speaker 1: you to take their I thought you were going to

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Speaker 1: go in the other direction. And say, does it make

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Speaker 1: you at all nervous? If Amazon or Apple is collecting

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Speaker 1: an incredible amount of private information not only about your

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Speaker 1: purchases with them, but every place you spend, every single penny,

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Speaker 1: that makes me really uneasy. And it makes me particularly

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Speaker 1: uneasy because there's no consumer protection in any part of this.

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Speaker 1: You know, write me, if you use your credit card,

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Speaker 1: you and I both know that if you get scammed,

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Speaker 1: the most you lose is fifty bucks, right that if

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Speaker 1: it gets lost, the most you lose is fifty bucks.

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Speaker 1: Not so if you use a cryptocurrency, one of these

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Speaker 1: as you call it decentralized, but we could also call

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Speaker 1: it wild West, no rules, no protection kind of currencies.

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Speaker 1: And when you load the information of all your purchases

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Speaker 1: with other information aggregation that we know Amazon is engaged in,

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Speaker 1: that we know Apple has engaged in. Then look at

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Speaker 1: the power that's becoming concentrated in one company, uh, and

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Speaker 1: the ability to be able to exercise influence politically, economically.

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Speaker 1: That really makes me uneasy. So a lot of people

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Speaker 1: really are uncomfortable with this level of corporate power for

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Speaker 1: all of the reasons you just described. It seems like

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Speaker 1: the main tool that people talk about for going after

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Speaker 1: it is anti trust, but it's not the classical sort

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Speaker 1: of monopoly pricing power issues that you've just laid out.

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Speaker 1: Is there a better tool out there in the tool

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Speaker 1: kit to address what you've identified than the sort of

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Speaker 1: antitrust approach that is sort of commonly taken here? So

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Speaker 1: there are two ways to think about anti trust first,

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Speaker 1: and one is to say, let's take anti trust back

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Speaker 1: to its roots, where big is a problem and it

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Speaker 1: poses a threat economically and it poses a threat um politically.

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Speaker 1: So that's one part. Another is to say, maybe it's

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Speaker 1: time to add to our antitrust laws to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they're covering the kind of platform approach that has

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Speaker 1: created uh so much more concentrated power. But the other

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Speaker 1: is to say, hey, regulators, get up off your duffs

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Speaker 1: and get in on this. We need the SEC, we

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Speaker 1: need the FED, we need others who say, if you're

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Speaker 1: using this like a currency, or you're using it like

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Speaker 1: an investment, then those agencies have a responsibility to step

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Speaker 1: up and make sure that we have some basic consumer

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Speaker 1: protection that we don't threaten our entire economic system. All right,

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Speaker 1: really appreciate you joining us. Massachusetts Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. Now, much more coming up on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Television and radio to stay with us. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: All right. That was Joe Wisenthal over on Bloomberg TV

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Speaker 1: with Senator Elizabeth of war and a few really interesting

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Speaker 1: points on cryptocurrency and how Congress is looking at that.

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Speaker 1: I'm here with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis. Rick, my

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Speaker 1: question for you is, Okay, she laid out a lot

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Speaker 1: of concerns about cryptocurrency. What comes next? Is this something

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Speaker 1: that we can see bipartisan legislation on or what do

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Speaker 1: you expect next from Congress? Well, I think there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of this kind of hearing activity going on because

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Speaker 1: I think most members of Congress that I talked to

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Speaker 1: you haven't got a clue how to look at the

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Speaker 1: perspective of cryptocurrency, especially as fast as it's emerging. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this last week there was a big conference in Miami

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin one, and and it kind of focused attention on

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Speaker 1: the fact that cities like Miami welcoming groups like this

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Speaker 1: because there I starting to adopt bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

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Speaker 1: as payment from the city. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick here with

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis, and we're joined on the

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Speaker 1: phone now by Lester Months in principle at the b

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Speaker 1: GR Group. Lester, thank so much for joining us. Really

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Speaker 1: appreciate you being able to share your knowledge on foreign

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Speaker 1: policy issues, especially because we're gonna have to be looking

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Speaker 1: ahead to the G seven meetings, the President's meeting with

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Speaker 1: UK officials, and then of course it gets tougher later

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Speaker 1: in the schedule with meetings on Turkey UH with Turkish

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Speaker 1: President air Toowana and Russian President Vladimir Putin. Let's let's

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Speaker 1: tea this up though with a little bit of sound,

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Speaker 1: because earlier today, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan was asked

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Speaker 1: about what to expect during a news availability on Air

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Speaker 1: Force one, and he talked a little bit about what

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Speaker 1: the President will discuss with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

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Speaker 1: Here's the sound on that they'll be talking to Boris

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Speaker 1: Johnson about COVID nineteen, about climate change, as the UK

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Speaker 1: is hosting the cop twenty in Glasgow later this year

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Speaker 1: about their joint commitment to developing an an infrastructure UH

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Speaker 1: financing mechanism the developing world that is climate friendly, high

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Speaker 1: standards and transparent. Okay, so that sounds relatively positive, and

433
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Speaker 1: maybe we'll get to some of the controversial stuff later

434
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: in the trip. But Lester, I want to get your

435
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: take on this, and in particular I'm curious about issues

436
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: on a global tax, a global minimum tax, maybe some

437
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: tough issues relating to Brexit UH and the Good Friday Agreement.

438
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: Can you lay out what do you think are the

439
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: actual most difficult issues to come up with Biden and

440
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: and some of the U S allies. Is this gonna

441
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: just be sort of a Kumbaya moment early in the

442
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: trip or are there any really tough issues that he's

443
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: gonna have to broach with the UK or with other

444
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: G seven allies. Jack, Thanks thanks for having me on.

445
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: I think that's a terrific question. My sense is that

446
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: the administration would like to would like to exploit kind

447
00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: of the low hanging fruits of of this trip and

448
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: and talk about restoring alliances and relationships where Western European

449
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: country that have been with us since World War two

450
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: and before, and they want to, you know, kind of

451
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: emphasize repairing the breach created perhaps in the last administration

452
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: with a lot of our friends and allies. They want

453
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: to be seen as healers of that breach. Uh. So

454
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: they're they're gonna they're gonna steer the news attention, the

455
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: narrative to that story. But you're absolutely right. There's there's

456
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: a whole series of tough questions confronting the G seven,

457
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: confronting the NATO meeting later on, and then of course

458
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: Biden is going to be meeting directly with Vladimir Putin

459
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: for a one on one. Uh, There's there's a whole

460
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: series of very good, very very tough challenges for President Biden.

461
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: He's gonna want to tell the good story. But but

462
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: you're right, the real story is how are they going

463
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: to grapple with the same challenges the President Trump faced

464
00:27:55,240 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: arising China, a ricalcitrant Russia that is kind of iiding

465
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: the West almost every point, the difficulty of developing a

466
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: green infrastructure plan without making some concessions on natural gas

467
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: and some more sensible approaches that maybe the left won't tolerate. Uh,

468
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: it's once once you get past that kind of good

469
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: news of repairing news relationships, that kind of easy win

470
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: for the president, it gets a lot harder. Yeah, that's

471
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: a really interesting point on especially on natural gas. You know,

472
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: I remember towards the end of his term, President Obama. Uh,

473
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: you know, a democrat popular among I don't know about

474
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: the super progressive left, but not just a centrist uh

475
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: saying Europe European Union countries should look at fracking and

476
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: that as being a topic relating to energy independence, specifically

477
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: with an eye on Russia. Rick, what are the energy

478
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: politics at play here with some of some of our

479
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: the U S allies. I'm specifically thinking of the nord

480
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: stream to news and Biden dropping objections to that. How

481
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: tricky politically do some of those issues get? Yeah, I

482
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: think it's been a massive issue for the last few

483
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: decades in Europe because Russia has used hydrocarbons as a

484
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: tactic to both reward and to punish his his friends

485
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: and his enemies, and uh in China's insatiable appetite for

486
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: hydrocarbons has driven most of its adventurism in the region. Also,

487
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: I mean Churchill called Russia and China the infernal twins,

488
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: and I think, uh, President Biden maybe agreeing with him. Uh,

489
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: it's it's it's part of this effort that not only

490
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: is Lester mentioned building the relationships back with our with

491
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: our allies, but finding a solution to a situation that

492
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: heretofore hasn't existed, which is Russia and China teaming up together,

493
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: especially on the insatiable need for and exploitation of hydrocarbons. Right. Uh. There.

494
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: There was some news today as US lawmakers criticized the

495
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: Colonial Pipeline company's security practices after news of security breach

496
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: that led to that shutdown based on a password being used.

497
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: I'm curious how much of a focus this is going

498
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: to be at the G seven. How how much is

499
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: the Colonial Pipeline going to sort of focus as a

500
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: I guess a part of the conversation about cyber security. Uh, Lester,

501
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: what do you what do you see that playing into? Well,

502
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: this is uh, it's great, it's a fascinating issue. Uh.

503
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: This is the latest episode of a phenomenon we've seen

504
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: for years of uh, you know, bad actors hacking into

505
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: private companies, exploiting Americans personal data. Now it's kind of falling.

506
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: It's kind of spilled over into direct impact on the

507
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: real everyday economy for Americans, whether it's you know, bacon,

508
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: cheeseburgers or filling up your your tank with DOS. It's

509
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: becoming more moreal. But this has been going on for

510
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: a very long time. A lot of people have been

511
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: thinking about the right response to this Trump administration, UH,

512
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, somewhat to its credit, took some more aggressive

513
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: steps on a cyber front on both defense and offense.

514
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: The Biden administration UH needs to kind of pick that up,

515
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: make a little bit more sense out of it, and

516
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: push it forward. And they and they need to engage

517
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: with our allies Russia. The big problem here. We need

518
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: to have a united funk this. He's Bloomberg zuned on

519
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick, joined today by Bloomberg

520
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: Politics contributor Rick Davis, and we've got Lester Munson on

521
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: the line. He has a principle at the b GR

522
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: Group with a lot of experience on foreign policy issues.

523
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to jump to my most ridiculous question, Lester.

524
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the schedule for President Biden. Yes, he's

525
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: going to speak to Prime Minister Boris Johnson in the UK,

526
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: but he's also got a meeting scheduled with Queen Elizabeth,

527
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: and I will admit I don't entirely understand what do

528
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: you talk to the queen about. Is this a policy discussion,

529
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: does she have enough of a role or is this

530
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: sort of a symbolic thing. Do you have any actual

531
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: expectations for the meeting with the queen. Well, my advice

532
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: would be not to bring up wayward family members of

533
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: the royal family or of the president's family. Uh No,

534
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,239
Speaker 1: it's it's important. It's an important meeting. You know. We uh,

535
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: we had a whole revolution in this country against the

536
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: British monarch, and yep, we did a few years ago.

537
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: And it's nice as part of this special relationship to

538
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: show that there are no hard feelings and and we're

539
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: happy to embrace their ancient form of government and and

540
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: pay due deference to the to the monarch. So I

541
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,479
Speaker 1: think joking a little bit, but I think it's it's

542
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: an important symbolic gesture. It's important to the British people,

543
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: it's important to a lot of Americans that we acknowledge, uh,

544
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: the important role of this queen. She's a particularly amazing monarch,

545
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: long lived, well accomplished, and has kept an even keel

546
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: for a lot of troubled times. Uh, and so it's

547
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 1: it's good for him for doing it. Sure, a historic figure.

548
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think you turned down a meeting

549
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: with Queen Elizabeth if if she wants one. Um, let's

550
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: talk about this TikTok news that came out today. President

551
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: Biden is revoking the Trump era attempted bands on Chinese

552
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: owned apps, including TikTok and we Chat, and he's going

553
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: to direct Commerce Secretary Gina Romando to evaluate these apps.

554
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: There could be actions taken against them, but he's turning

555
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: away from former President Trump's attempt that was held up

556
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: by courts to just ban the use of TikTok in

557
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: the US. My first question, Rick, what do you make

558
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,479
Speaker 1: of this? Is this, I'm curious if a band can

559
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: actually hold up in court, is there any chance they

560
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: go back to a band or how? Does how do

561
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: you make sense of sort of Biden's positioning relative of

562
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: to former President Trump on a touchy issue relating to

563
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: relations with China. Here, Yeah, I really think President Biden

564
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: president Trump are more similar than dissimilar. Um. The only

565
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: real distinction is lifting of the band that I believe

566
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: a court held as uh in in an injunction. So

567
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody actually was banned from downloading the app,

568
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, for TikTok or we chat, and so the

569
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: functionality of it is is not much different. I think

570
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: the policy actually is Biden reinforcing the policy that Trump

571
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: had against these two organizations because of piracy theft and

572
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 1: data theft, and so I actually think the headline here

573
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: is really Biden joins Trump in a consistent policy against

574
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: China data theft and and the on the edges uh

575
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: There's there's only a slight difference in what the actual

576
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: impact is going to be, right, And just to be clear,

577
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: yes you can still download TikTok, but this was the

578
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: attempt by former President Trump that got held up in

579
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: court to ban its use in the US. And that's

580
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: a good point about I mean, we'll we'll see what

581
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,439
Speaker 1: happens with this review by the Commerce Secretary and see

582
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: if they're going to take action, because this this really

583
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: may not be Biden backing off of Trump's sort of

584
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: hawkishness towards China. But can we put this in perspective.

585
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: I'm curious, uh, if this is sort of an international thing.

586
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: Are are we trying to put TikTok out of business?

587
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: Are we interested in blocking them? Here? Lester? Do you

588
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: know sort of what the end goal is uh for

589
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: for the US federal government's action relating to TikTok? You know, Jack,

590
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: I think there's a really interesting conundrum out there for

591
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: policy makers in the US. They may not quite realize

592
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: it yet, but there's an easy hip on state owned

593
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: enterprises from China, those companies that are owned in heart

594
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: or in the hold by the Chinese government, and you

595
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 1: can see that they're in for a lot of sanctions

596
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: and restrictions. It's those companies that are that don't get

597
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: into that category, that are basically independent companies. And some

598
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 1: folks will argue there's no such thing as an independent

599
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,959
Speaker 1: company in China, and that's a that's a discussion worth having.

600
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: But these companies that are not in fact owned by

601
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: the Chinese government don't have anything to do with the military.

602
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: How do you treat those companies? And I think that's

603
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: a commendrum for both the Chinese government and the American government.

604
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: Congress is moving legislation right now just past the Senate

605
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: yesterday that will um have a role in this conversation.

606
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,919
Speaker 1: The House is going to take that up relatively soon.

607
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: The administration is trying to take a more sensible, thoughtful approach,

608
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: somewhat in the line as Rick was saying, with where

609
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: the Trump administration was, but making it more coherent. But

610
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: this question, this extant question of how do you handle

611
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: independent Chinese companies is a big one. I don't know

612
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: that we have a clear answer on it. Right you're

613
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: referring to the Endless Frontiers Bill or whatever they're renaming it,

614
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: too correct just passed the Senate. My impression is if

615
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: you can get that past the Senate as they did

616
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: with sixty plus votes, uh, it's probably looking good for

617
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,959
Speaker 1: the rest of the way. Should we expect that bill,

618
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: in your opinion, to become law. Uh, it's got a

619
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: it's got a long way to go. Uh. The House

620
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: is going to take a probably a different approach, not

621
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: totally different, but they're not going to take the Senate

622
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 1: bill and amend it. They're going to take their own

623
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: bill and pass it. Then you've got to mash those

624
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: two bills together into one that both houses can pass,

625
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: you know, like the old Saturday Morning cartoon. That's that's

626
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: a long road. There's a lot of work to do.

627
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: It does kind of look good now, but it's it's

628
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: hard to predict that. It's they've got a lot of

629
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: work to do. Okay, so not exactly a glide path necessarily.

630
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: And I like your verbiage on referring to conference negotiations

631
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: as mashing them together. That that really gets at the

632
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: political reality of how this work. Uh, let's talk about

633
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: what's happening. Let's say on on foreign policy and look

634
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: south of the US border. The Vice president Vice President

635
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris went on a two day trip to Guatemala

636
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 1: and Mexico, and you may have heard, uh, some of

637
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: the criticism or at least some of the headlines about

638
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: her saying to people who may seek to make a

639
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: long trek up to the US border with Mexico, saying,

640
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 1: don't come here. I just wanna want to check, rick,

641
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: is this an effective message? She got some pushback from

642
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: the progressive side from Congresswoman Alexandria Accassio Cortez. Uh, this

643
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: seems like a it didn't go well politically, and I'm

644
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: curious if that's an effective message to a place with

645
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: a lot of people who may seek asylum. It was

646
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 1: this an effective trip in your opinion by the Vice president.

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00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: I must admit I'm a little confused by the trip. Um.

648
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: Uh So you go to Guatemala and you say, don't

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00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: leave your country, stay here, don't immigrate to the United

650
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: States eight but you but you don't want to say

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00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: at the border of the United States of Mexico, don't

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00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: come in here. So I mean, it's it's it may

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00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: be a distinction without merit. And and so I think

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00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: that the politics of it is not playing out well.

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00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 1: I think that they've riled up their left base and

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00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: upset any moderates that they have in the party who

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00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: actually are worried about border security. So I'm not exactly

658
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: sure what they hope to accomplish. But what I think

659
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: they've accomplished is putting immigration front and center at a

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00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: time when the president's leaving the country and trying to

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00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: rally support from our allies against a broader uh A

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00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: situation with Russia and China. And and yet the headline

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00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: coming out of the newspapers today is uh, you know, uh,

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00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, the vice president, you know, sort of mixing

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00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: it up with Guatemalan I just I don't understand what

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00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: the administration hope to accomplish with that. Yeah, it seems

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00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: like a little bit confusing to know exactly what to

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00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: make of this politically and exactly what the policy goals are.

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00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: Lesser I'm curious, especially you know there there's news of

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00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: the US looking to provide aid at the source of

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00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 1: these issues in Guatemala and in that region. How much

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00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: can US foreign aid actually do? I mean, how how

673
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: much money does it take to UH solve the problems

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00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: or or is that even possible in areas with such

675
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: challenging politics. I mean, is US foreign aid actually an

676
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: answer here? How do you put that in perspective for US?

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00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: Lester Well, I think almost someone who very much believes

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00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 1: and thinks that U s Foreign assistant is an important tool.

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00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: We need to have it in a toolbox. It can

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00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: make a big difference in a lot of situations. I

681
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: think it's a mistake to rely on aid of the

682
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: answer in Central America. It can be part of a bigger,

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00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: bigger efforts that should be that should involve pressure on

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00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: those governments to improve their human rights record, to improve

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00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: their corruption record, to push for more democratic reforms. If

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00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: we need to help them on the security side, we

687
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: should be doing that. If we need to help them

688
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: on macroeconomic policy, we should be doing that. This is

689
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: our backyard. This the things that happen in Central America

690
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: have a direct impact on people in our country. We

691
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: need to be involved. But I think it's I think

692
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: it's a mistake to over rely on some sort of

693
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: magical foreign aid formula that will solve all those problems.

694
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: It's much more complex than that. The Vice President is

695
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: learning that she's a little bit new at this national game.

696
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be optimistic here, and I hope that

697
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: she realizes that the challenge here is quite substantial, is

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00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: going to require a lot of effort and serious effort,

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00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: and we can't have ideological responses. We need to be practical.

700
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: We need to get down and dirty and work hard

701
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: with people we can work within the region to get

702
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: it done. A really challenging issue, and I think is

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00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: actually challenging heading into the two mid terms. If you

704
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 1: look at pulling border security and immigration are are really

705
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: challenging one. Uh, that's it for us. Thank you so

706
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: much again to Congressman John Yarmouth, the House Budget Chairman.

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00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis and Lester

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00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: Months and a principal at b GR Group. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg