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Speaker 1: It was July first, the start of the July fourth

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Speaker 1: weekend nineteen seventy seven, in New Orleans, in the then

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Speaker 1: predominantly white working class ninth Ward, two black men approached

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Speaker 1: the welcome in bar, requesting two beers to go, and

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Speaker 1: the owner obliged, believing that she had recognized the shorter

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Speaker 1: of the pair from the neighborhood. They grabbed the cans

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Speaker 1: of beer and then forced their way in a gunpoint,

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Speaker 1: demanding money from the register as well as from the

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Speaker 1: intoxicated patrons, one of whom Cecil Lloyd, was fatally shot.

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Speaker 1: The assailants set their beer cans down on the bar,

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Speaker 1: leaving their fingerprints behind. The police began their investigation, casting

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Speaker 1: a wide net, considering all the local black men as

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Speaker 1: potential suspects, including a young man named Elvis Brooks, who

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Speaker 1: had previously been wrongfully arrested for a nineteen seventy four

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Speaker 1: robbery and attempted murder. When three of the surviving witnesses

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Speaker 1: identified Elvis from a photo array and again in court,

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Speaker 1: it must have seemed to the jury that his parade

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Speaker 1: of thirteen alibi witnesses were perjuring themselves to save Elements

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Speaker 1: from prison. But this is wrongful conviction. We'll be right

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Speaker 1: back after this. Welcome back to wronful Conviction. Today, I

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Speaker 1: have a case out of New Orleans, and it's a

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Speaker 1: case of cross racial misidentification, which, as you know, in

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Speaker 1: study after study, has been found and proven to be

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Speaker 1: even less accurate than guessing. And with us to discuss

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Speaker 1: the case is the man himself, Elvis Brooks, who did

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Speaker 1: over four decades in Angola Penitentiary. Elvis, Welcome to wronful Conviction.

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Speaker 1: Jason and joining Elvis is one of his post conviction attorneys.

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Speaker 1: She's the supervising attorney for case development at Edison's Project

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Speaker 1: New Orleans, also known as IPNO. Charrelle Arnold, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: ronfel conviction.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: So. This is Orlands Parish in nineteen seventies. We've covered

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Speaker 1: several other cases from this era, both in Orleans Parish

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Speaker 1: and elsewhere in the surrounding areas Bobby Jean Johnson, Vincent Simmons,

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Speaker 1: Malcolm Alexander, where it seems like the state was running

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Speaker 1: more of a kidnapping racket than anything resembling justice or

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Speaker 1: public safety.

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Speaker 2: Orlean's Parish has been really challenged for a long time

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Speaker 2: in terms of the administration of the criminal legal system,

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Speaker 2: how Orleans Parish has treated people of color and particularly

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Speaker 2: its black residents. In nineteen seventy seven, mister Brooks lived

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Speaker 2: in an area that was primarily white. His family was

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Speaker 2: one of the only black families who lived there. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: that was part of the reason that he was targeted

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Speaker 2: for this crime. This was an area that was very

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Speaker 2: like white working class back then. The Lower ninth Ward,

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Speaker 2: of course, would become an area that was largely black

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Speaker 2: area obviously by the time Hurricane Katrina came, So this

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Speaker 2: was an area that was really kind of on the

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Speaker 2: cusp of Frankly, I think many white residents believed something dangerous,

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Speaker 2: but in actuality was an area where black families would

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Speaker 2: eventually become homeowners and grow a really vibrant neighborhood. So

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Speaker 2: many of the witnesses I imagined in this case, or

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Speaker 2: people who lived around there, would later be part of

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Speaker 2: the white flight of white residents of Orleans Parish who

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Speaker 2: left to the suburbs.

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Speaker 1: And this is a phenomenon we saw all over the

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Speaker 1: country in this era, with white residents fleeing to suburbia.

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Speaker 1: Talking Brooklyn, Detroit, and of course New Orleans and Elvis.

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Speaker 1: You grew up in that fraught time. Can you tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about your childhood.

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Speaker 3: I was one of twelve kids, five boys, the seventh girls. Oh,

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Speaker 3: the middle boy. You know, I had it known. I'm

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Speaker 3: a kid life, you know. I went to school and

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Speaker 3: I had two of the best parents in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they'd have to be kids is no small feat.

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Speaker 1: I can't even imagine that's in some superhero category. And

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Speaker 1: it must have been hard for them to keep you

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Speaker 1: all in line.

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Speaker 3: Out the bed. Look key, and I ain't no my

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Speaker 3: daddy he used to have to come to school quite

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Speaker 3: a bit for me and my Beretta. Young teenagers, you know,

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Speaker 3: acting crazy, you know, fighting, joy ride, you know, shooting,

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Speaker 3: hooking all we never heard anyone, you know.

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Speaker 1: Now. Joy Riding was a bit of a raucous teenage

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Speaker 1: trend back then, where you'd steal a car for a

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Speaker 1: short period of time with the intention of returning it

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Speaker 1: or abandoning it unnoticed. Which it's foolishness for sure, but

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Speaker 1: it's certainly not murder. But I can also imagine that

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Speaker 1: the joy rides at least pissed people off, right.

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Speaker 2: I think he could have been upsetting some people. I

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Speaker 2: think these were crimes that frankly, white teenagers were committing

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Speaker 2: that people did just call joy rides, right, and they

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Speaker 2: weren't getting arrested, or they weren't getting.

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Speaker 3: Through Me and my partner I better. We'd be hanging

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Speaker 3: out there, you know, just hanging out, you know, and

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Speaker 3: the police has come threatened us. You know, we know,

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Speaker 3: y'all all, get off the street. We're gonna arrest y'all,

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Speaker 3: you know, but put some charges on y'all. You know,

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Speaker 3: we were being young. We ain't take them serious, you know.

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Speaker 1: So since you had this reputation as a troublemaker, they

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Speaker 1: would threaten you with bogus charges to enforce some sort

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Speaker 1: of an unofficial curfew that they made just for you.

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Speaker 1: And it turns out that you should have taken those

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Speaker 1: threats seriously. Now, this wasn't the detective in the case

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Speaker 1: we're here to discuss today, but this guy did do

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Speaker 1: something that put you in jeopardy for this case. There

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Speaker 1: was a robbery turned homicide in your neighborhood at a bakery,

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Speaker 1: and one night he made his usual threat to get

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Speaker 1: you off the street. That you didn't take that seriously.

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Speaker 1: But this time it got a bit more real for you, right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, in nineteen centy full the detective put a robbery

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Speaker 3: and a tip murder charge on me. I was seven.

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Speaker 3: I ain't even know where the rivalry happened, you know.

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Speaker 3: It happened on Saint claud and Treacle. That was about

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Speaker 3: seven blocks away from where I live, you know, And

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Speaker 3: he stopped me three times altogether. He told me if

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Speaker 3: he ever catched me on the street again, he's gonna

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Speaker 3: bring me up to jail for that charge. You know.

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Speaker 3: Third time he saw me out there, he arrested me,

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Speaker 3: you know, and brought me to my parents' house and

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Speaker 3: told my parents. You know, I know he Elvers didn't

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Speaker 3: have anything to do with this, but I gotta teach

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Speaker 3: him a lesson. I said, I'm gonna arrest him. I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna book him. I'm gonna put him on the line up.

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Speaker 3: He ain't gonna get identified because he didn't do this here.

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Speaker 3: But I got to teach him a lesson. I was

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Speaker 3: frank of printed and I had a mug, you know,

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Speaker 3: smug shot. You know. I went on the line up

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Speaker 3: and I was out when they arrest me on this

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Speaker 3: case here. That's all they talked about was that nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy four case, you know.

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Speaker 1: So this detective trying to show you tough love, as

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Speaker 1: if that was in his job description, put you permanently

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Speaker 1: on the docket, ready to be sold off and shipped

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Speaker 1: off to Angola. So three years later, that's exactly what happened. Chelle.

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Speaker 1: Can you describe the events of July first, nineteen seventy seven,

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Speaker 1: at a bar in the ninth Ward called the Welcome

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Speaker 1: Inn that resulted in the failed shooting death of a

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Speaker 1: man named Cecil Lloyd?

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Speaker 2: Sure? So this crib. I believe it was a Friday night,

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Speaker 2: but it was just the start of basically the fourth

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Speaker 2: of July weekend. And the bar was a small neighborhood bar,

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Speaker 2: tiny place, not a lot of room to move around.

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Speaker 2: There was a few patrons left, and I think one

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Speaker 2: or two people working the bar. As far as we

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Speaker 2: can tell, these patrons had been drinking all day, right,

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Speaker 2: they were having a good time, enjoying the weekend. Two

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Speaker 2: black men come to the door. And this was a

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Speaker 2: bar that I think was primarily a white bar. Everyone

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Speaker 2: who worked there was white, The owner was white. As

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Speaker 2: far as I'm aware, The patrons were all white two

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Speaker 2: black men come to the door and the owner says

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Speaker 2: that they ask for beers to go, and she says

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Speaker 2: that she opened the door to get them the beers

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Speaker 2: because she recognized one of the men from the neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: She hands them the beers and then they push in

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Speaker 2: the door. But importantly to mister Brooks's case, they set

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Speaker 2: their beer on the bar top. Just a couple steps

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Speaker 2: inside the bar and they basically commence a robbery. So

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Speaker 2: they empty the cash register. They demand everyone get down

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Speaker 2: on the ground. There's sort of a lead robber and

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Speaker 2: kind of the supporting robber. One of them is armed

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Speaker 2: with a gun, or at least one of them is

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Speaker 2: the one who fires the fatal shot. I believe only

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Speaker 2: one shot is fired, and sadly, mister Lloyd is killed,

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Speaker 2: seemingly for no reason. Mister Lloyd complied just like everyone else, so.

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Speaker 1: This must have scared the living shit out of everyone

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Speaker 1: in that bar. Lloyd complied and still got killed. So

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Speaker 1: all bets were off. But these two men leave, and

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Speaker 1: of course the cops are called in. What did the

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Speaker 1: victims say to the police?

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Speaker 2: They take witness statements from everybody. We now know that

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Speaker 2: these statements differed quite a bit from one another in

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Speaker 2: many ways. By the time of trial the statements would

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Speaker 2: become remarkably more consistent. But that night, the witnesses give

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Speaker 2: sort of general descriptions of the men. We know they

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Speaker 2: were both black. They give a variety of different clothing descriptions,

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Speaker 2: a variety of hair descriptions. We know that one is

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Speaker 2: short and one is tall. Mister Brooks was eventually convicted

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Speaker 2: of being the shorter of the two robbers. Who is

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Speaker 2: the shooter?

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Speaker 1: Right? It's my understanding that the shorter of the two

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Speaker 1: assailants was about five four.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, five full full by one hundred and forty pound

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Speaker 3: out five eight by one hundred and forty something pound,

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Speaker 3: and he said he had shot hair, but I had

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Speaker 3: a big the shorter robber.

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Speaker 2: I think it may have also technically bett afro. But

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Speaker 2: mister Brooks's hair was like much bigger. You know, mister Brooks,

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Speaker 2: he could be described as short, but the hairstyles that

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Speaker 2: the witnesses described just didn't match mister Brooks.

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Speaker 1: So we're seeing a market difference in height as well

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Speaker 1: as length of hair. So how does Elvis even get

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Speaker 1: dragged into the consciousness of these victims?

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Speaker 2: The bar owner Ms Caruso, the woman who chose to

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Speaker 2: let the men into the bar. She believes that she

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Speaker 2: recognized the shorter robber from the neighborhood. And in the end,

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Speaker 2: this is really the only connection that mister Brooks has

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Speaker 2: to this case is that his family was a black

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Speaker 2: family who lived in the neighborhood. Beyond that, police have

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Speaker 2: nothing to go on. So what detectives do, and we

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Speaker 2: know this from the police files that we've been able

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Speaker 2: to obtain, is that they basically just started getting lists

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Speaker 2: of black men who lived in the naighborhood Jesus Christ

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Speaker 2: and so there are just lists and lists. Frankly, a

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Speaker 2: man who could have been wrongfully convicted for this crime.

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Speaker 2: Right if it wasn't mister Brooks, it certainly would have

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Speaker 2: been someone else on one of these lists. Interestingly, when police

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Speaker 2: create these lists, Elvis Brooks isn't on them. We don't

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Speaker 2: know exactly what police did with these lists. It seems

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Speaker 2: as though they may have gotten photos of some of

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Speaker 2: these people and tried to show the robbery victims these photos.

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Speaker 2: We don't know for sure. There's not great documentation on this,

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Speaker 2: but for several weeks, police don't have a suspect in

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Speaker 2: this case, they are basically all they have to go

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Speaker 2: on is a black man who maybe lives in the

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Speaker 2: neighborhood or has been in the neighborhood at some point.

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Speaker 2: And so this is how randomly, right coincidentally, despite having

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Speaker 2: gotten these lists of people, mister Brooks's name isn't on them. Suddenly,

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Speaker 2: from reading the police report, one of the police officers

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Speaker 2: would have you believe that he suddenly came to buy

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Speaker 2: a suspect that matched the description who lived in the neighborhood,

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Speaker 2: and that was Elvis Brooks.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like a sinister game of eeny

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Speaker 1: Meeni Mini mo right, And this is why we must

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Speaker 1: remind people that black lives matter, because to these people,

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Speaker 1: they simply don't. So even though he's four inches taller

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Speaker 1: than the shooter, has a big afro unlike the shooter,

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Speaker 1: they still put Elvis's photo in an array to show

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Speaker 1: to the victims.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that it's even like multiple photos on

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Speaker 2: one piece of paper. They just have photos, and one

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Speaker 2: of those photos is of Elvis Brooks. But it's not

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Speaker 2: a photo from nineteen seventy seven. It's a photo from

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Speaker 2: several years before, right, when mister Brooks had been arrested previously,

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Speaker 2: and so they take this old photo where his hair

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Speaker 2: looks differently, right, because it was two years previously. His

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Speaker 2: hair is much shorter in this photo than his hair

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Speaker 2: was in nineteen seventy seven. He hadn't cut his hair

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Speaker 2: in between, because it was an afro that he was

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Speaker 2: letting grow out. And so they take this old photo

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Speaker 2: to the witnesses from the bar. But because it's the

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Speaker 2: same photo, when a witness signed the back of it, right,

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Speaker 2: Sometimes when you sign things, you can tell that there's

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Speaker 2: writing on the back of something. So it's certainly possible

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Speaker 2: that as they're showing the photo to the witnesses from

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Speaker 2: the bar, it's very obvious which photo has been identified.

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Speaker 1: So not only is the photo lineup suggestive because of

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Speaker 1: the signature on the back, but also the photo of

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Speaker 1: Elvis from nineteen seventy four more closely met the description

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Speaker 1: of the actual assailant in nineteen seventy seven than Elvis

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Speaker 1: did in that same year. This is also a situation

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Speaker 1: where you have three fully traumatized victims, so not exactly

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Speaker 1: a room full of people with clear heads, and the

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Speaker 1: victims were white. The assailants were black. And we have

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Speaker 1: to go back to this important point, which is that

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Speaker 1: study after study has shown that cross racial identification it's

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Speaker 1: less accurate than guessing. So they got three cross racial

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Speaker 1: identifications from two patrons, mister Nodo, Miss Chibriani and the

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Speaker 1: bar owner, Miss Caruso, But they didn't have to go

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Speaker 1: down the identification route, right. What about the fingerprints they're

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Speaker 1: right there on the beer cans.

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Speaker 2: Correct. The police got to the scene and they knew

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Speaker 2: exactly what would be probative to fingerprint in this scene.

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Speaker 2: This isn't a case where they were figure printing the

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Speaker 2: ceiling or something like that. They knew that the robbers

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Speaker 2: had touched these beer cans and that they had then

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Speaker 2: set those beer cans on the bar top. And so

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Speaker 2: they collected those Kansas evidence and they were able to

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Speaker 2: get usable prints that they could compare to mister Brooks's prints.

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Speaker 2: And what we now know and what police and what

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Speaker 2: the district attorney in nineteen seventy seven knew as they

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Speaker 2: were trying to kill mister brook right to prosecute him capitally,

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Speaker 2: was that the fingerprints onw those beer cans didn't match

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Speaker 2: Elvis Brooks We don't know whose they were, but we

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Speaker 2: know they didn't belong to mister Brooks.

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Speaker 1: So they got these fingerprints, they knew that they didn't

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Speaker 1: match Elvis, but yet they decided to go ahead and

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Speaker 1: pursue the death penalty. Anyway, let's just marinate on that

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Speaker 1: for a second. That sounds like state sanctioned attempted murder.

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Speaker 1: Needless to say, if these folks were civilians, they'd be

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Speaker 1: charged and punished accordingly. But our system has decided that

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Speaker 1: these people have special privileges, including the right to kill

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Speaker 1: for the advance of their careers with no recompense. And

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Speaker 1: this was the notorious Harry Konic senior era, so this

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Speaker 1: sort of behavior was the norm, even from the junior

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Speaker 1: Ada who was trying the case. So they ignored the

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Speaker 1: beer can fingerprints that they knew to be from the

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Speaker 1: actual assailants, no question about it, and they got an

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Speaker 1: a arrest warrant for Elvis instead.

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Speaker 3: And I was at work that day. You know. When

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Speaker 3: I got home, my sister said, the police would look

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Speaker 3: like you for you. I say it, for what they said,

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Speaker 3: you kill somebody. I said, kill somebody. I said, I

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Speaker 3: ain't never killed nobody. Then I went to the phone

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Speaker 3: book called the Philip Prieston.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: Ashually was they looking for all the books? And they said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: they see where you're at. I said, I'm all paid

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Speaker 3: for Saint claud and Fallston. Then way they came and

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Speaker 3: got me right there.

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Speaker 4: You know, we'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

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Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making

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Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

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Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light

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Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and

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Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,

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Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and

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Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals.

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Speaker 3: I had to go to get bond, said, that's the

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Speaker 3: first thing I went to wish I didn't have any

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Speaker 3: bond because the first degree murried. So after that they

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Speaker 3: went into the motive identification brought me the colder. So

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Speaker 3: I feel like, I know I didn't do it, I said,

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Speaker 3: I said, these people here ain't gonna say I'd done it,

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Speaker 3: because I knew I didn't do it. I say they

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Speaker 3: got the wrong person. You know. When I go in

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Speaker 3: the court room for emotional for identification, one of them said,

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Speaker 3: he potative it wasn't me, you know, but the DA

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Speaker 3: came in print at me said this ain't the man.

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Speaker 3: He said, no, my pottier, that ain't the man. And uh,

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Speaker 3: the two ladies you know, they said it was me,

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Speaker 3: you know. But when I gave bet to trial a man,

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Speaker 3: that change in mind, you know, and see it was me,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 2: So Joseph Noto when he went to court for the

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Speaker 2: motion to suppress identifications, he essentially couldn't recognize if the

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Speaker 2: man he had identified in the photo, if that was

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Speaker 2: the same man who was in court. Someone who can't

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Speaker 2: even look at a photo and say if it's the

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Speaker 2: same person as someone's sitting in front of them, shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be considered to be reliable evidence against someone.

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Speaker 1: Yet somehow something helped him come around by the time

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Speaker 1: of trial to make the identification.

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Speaker 2: At trial, the evidence against mister Brooks is three cross

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Speaker 2: racial stranger identifications. At least two of the witnesses were

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Speaker 2: quite a bit older than mister Brooks. It can be

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Speaker 2: more difficult to identify someone who's of a different age

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Speaker 2: than you are. We most recognize people who look more

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Speaker 2: like us. It's just easier for people to remember. And

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Speaker 2: then also, these people had been drinking for hours in

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Speaker 2: a dark bar. They were terrified. They were being told

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Speaker 2: to lie down on the ground. Someone had just been shot,

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Speaker 2: seemingly randomly. And this is a very quick situation. And

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Speaker 2: so they've had only a few minutes to look at

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Speaker 2: a person they've never seen before and to identify them

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Speaker 2: after they've been drinking, some of them seemingly for hours.

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Speaker 1: And then there's a fourth witness presented a trial in

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Speaker 1: addition to the other three we've already mentioned.

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Speaker 2: The fourth person is actually he's the victim who can't

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Speaker 2: identify anyone. He describes the circumstances of the crime and agrees,

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Speaker 2: you know, in many ways with the other witnesses, but

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Speaker 2: he could never make an identification of mister Brooks. And

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Speaker 2: so this was the evidence against Elvis Brooks. No physical

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Speaker 2: evidence ever tied him to the crime, and in fact,

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Speaker 2: the fingerprints right made it very clear that he was

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Speaker 2: not one of the robbers.

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Speaker 1: So what the hell is this? How is it that

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Speaker 1: the defense did not bring this up?

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Speaker 2: His lawyer didn't mention the fingerprints because he wasn't told

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Speaker 2: about the fingerprints. The police right, they had gathered the evidence,

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Speaker 2: they had tested the evidence, They knew about the evidence.

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Speaker 2: We know that the assistant district attorney in this case

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Speaker 2: knew about the evidence because of notes we would later

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Speaker 2: find in the DA file. Mister Brooks's attorney was never

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Speaker 2: told that there were fingerprints, exonerating his client. But in

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Speaker 2: this trial that lasted only a few hours, mister Brooks's

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Speaker 2: attorney fought. He presented witness after witness after witness, all

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Speaker 2: demonstrating Elvis Brooks's alibi for that night. Mister Brooks also

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Speaker 2: testified on his own behalf right. He told the jury

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Speaker 2: that he was innocent, that he didn't do this. In total,

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Speaker 2: the jury chose to believe four white witnesses who had

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Speaker 2: been drinking in a dimly lit bar, oh for thirteen

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Speaker 2: black witnesses who described almost to a t, the alibi

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Speaker 2: that mister Brooks had that night. They all explained how

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Speaker 2: they had come to be at the Brooks house that evening,

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Speaker 2: what they were doing, the time periods they were there,

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Speaker 2: what they saw Elvis doing. These were people who, yes

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Speaker 2: many of them were related to mister Brooks, though not

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Speaker 2: all of them, but these were also people who just frankly,

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Speaker 2: they corroborated one another, not in a perfect way, right,

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Speaker 2: not everyone had been there for the exact same time

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Speaker 2: period that night. But they were clear as to what

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Speaker 2: mister Brooks had been wearing, which wasn't the clothing described

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Speaker 2: as the robber was wearing, what his hair had looked like,

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Speaker 2: and what he had been doing. And they were all

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Speaker 2: clear that in this small shotgun style house, which right,

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Speaker 2: it's a house that it has one entrance and one exit.

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Speaker 2: It's very clear when someone leaves a shotgun house, you

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Speaker 2: can't sneak out. They knew that mister Brooks had been

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Speaker 2: there all night, he couldn't possibly be the robber. Yet

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Speaker 2: these black voices were ignored.

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Speaker 3: I had my brother, he come over there with his friend,

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Speaker 3: and my sister she come over over her boyfriend and

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Speaker 3: she had her three kids. Well I'm the one to

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Speaker 3: open the door for them, you know, for the July

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Speaker 3: was coming up, and uh, they wanted to come visit

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Speaker 3: my mom and daddy. You know, no, I might have

391
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Speaker 3: been a bad little kid, but my mom and daddy

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Speaker 3: they were very honest people, you know, even if it

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Speaker 3: was meant I had to help the death pending. It

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Speaker 3: wasn't gonna lie for me. You know.

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Speaker 1: After this very short proceeding, three cross racial misidentifications were made,

396
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Speaker 1: but thirteen alibi witnesses swore that you were with them instead,

397
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Speaker 1: and your life was literally hanging in the balance. Did

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Speaker 1: you still hold out hope that the jury was going

399
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Speaker 1: to believe your parents and your family?

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Speaker 3: You know what, at that time, I was young, Like

401
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Speaker 3: I said, I didn't take life serious then, you know.

402
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Speaker 3: But I was saying to myself, I didn't do this.

403
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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm I'm not gonna get convicted, you know,

404
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Speaker 3: because I didn't do it. You know. But when I

405
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Speaker 3: got convicted, I learned the hard way just how much

406
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Speaker 3: people hate out of people. You want to get somebody,

407
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Speaker 3: to get the right person that's done it, you know,

408
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: don't come just naching on anybody. That just made me

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Speaker 3: look at people different. I learned the hardway. I'll never

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Speaker 3: forget it, though.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. After a quick break.

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Speaker 3: A week later, they uh sends me to life and

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Speaker 3: fifty years in Ain't Gold. And after that a few

414
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Speaker 3: months later, I was in ain Golder for the next

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Speaker 3: forty son years. They put you in the field, you know,

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Speaker 3: working like a sleeve, picking cotton, digging dishes, picking calm,

417
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Speaker 3: doing quarter grains, cutting grass, you know, stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: I really wasn't familiar with those things that, you know,

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Speaker 3: so I just had to get used to it. When

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Speaker 3: I first went there, I was getting right ups, you know.

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Speaker 2: So when mister Brooks was sentenced to life in prison,

422
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Speaker 2: the sentence he only got because his mother begged the

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Speaker 2: jurors to spare her son from the death penalty. He

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Speaker 2: was sent to Angola Peditentiary, right the Louisiana State Peditentiary,

425
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Speaker 2: where he got reprimands for essentially not doing hard labor

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Speaker 2: fast enough or with sufficient enthusiasm for the hard labor.

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Speaker 2: He was assigned lucky in.

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Speaker 3: A hole in the dungeon, your son, And back then

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Speaker 3: they give you extra duty, you know, something you got

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Speaker 3: to do on the weekends, going the field on the weekends,

431
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Speaker 3: or they might give you a isolation time, which is

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Speaker 3: ten days, you know, without a mattress and all that.

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Speaker 1: They never even tried to hide the fact that mass

434
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: incarceration was just what slavery morphed into after the Civil War.

435
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: And they still aren't. Louisiana just did have the opportunity

436
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: as four other states did, who all passed it to

437
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: remove the slavery loophole of the Thirteenth Amendment from the

438
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: state constitution by ballot initiative. That was in November twenty

439
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: twenty two. But they voted to keep it. Yeah, and

440
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: it was the voters voted this way by a comfortable margin,

441
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 1: which is I don't have the right words for it. Anyway,

442
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: It wasn't bad enough for your mom to lose you,

443
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: but your brother was in Angola with you.

444
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was up then the Golda with me. He

445
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 3: got killed. You know, his name was the Brooks. He

446
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 3: got killed in nineteen eighty one.

447
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear that. So I understand. They tried

448
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: to get a friend of yours too to shoot him

449
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: in for the taller shooter in nineteen seventy eight. And

450
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: this was a guy named Alvin Keller.

451
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 3: The Alvin Keller, they say. The second man was something

452
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: like six feet a six'. One keller was same heighth as.

453
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 3: Me you. Know they tried to arrest, him but H keller, said,

454
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 3: MAN i WAS i was locked up when that, happened you.

455
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: Know then they check and see it was real didn't

456
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 3: they let him, Go but, no they ain't never arrest anyone,

457
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 3: else you.

458
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: Know so luckily for, him he was able to use

459
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: their own words against them to escape being another, statistic

460
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: another wrongfully convicted black man In louisiana at the, time

461
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 1: and then being forced onto that horrible conveyor belt of

462
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: free labor that fuels this. System you were making two

463
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: to four cents an hour in the. Fields it's an.

464
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 2: Amount of money that makes it impossible to save up

465
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: so that if you, wanted like Mister brooks, did to

466
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: try to get information about his, Case postage costs, money, right,

467
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: envelopes paper cost. Money in, prison documents certainly cost. Money

468
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: and when you're talking about making that little and having a,

469
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: family that though they supported him as best they, could

470
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 2: they just weren't in a position to support him financially like.

471
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: That and so it leads to a situation where people

472
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: are desperate to try to get information about their cases,

473
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 2: right and they have virtually no tools to do. So

474
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: and so for years Mister brooks struggled right to try

475
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: to litigate his case pro sae meeting without a, lawyer

476
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: because In louisiana once he wasn't given a death. Sentence

477
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 2: he was no longer. Entitled he wasn't entitled to some

478
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: sort of post conviction. Council. Right he did get to

479
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: take it out of time appeal it was, Denied but

480
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: those sorts of, things that's not going to reveal any new.

481
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 2: Evidence that just going to review what occurred actually at

482
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 2: the trial. Itself and so for years Mister brooks was

483
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: just left alone to try to manage as best he

484
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 2: could to try to scrape together the, buddy to get,

485
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 2: documents to try to get information about right what he

486
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: always knew that he wasn't the. Robber he knew he

487
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 2: didn't do that, crime and he was certain that there

488
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 2: would be something in those files to prove. It but

489
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:22,959
Speaker 2: he just couldn't get to.

490
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: Them but you got, crafty right when you weren't out

491
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: in the, FIELDS i understand you actually started making, belts

492
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: like with your own, hands from.

493
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 3: Scratch they had a police they called a hobby. Shop

494
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 3: belts with my pershon to. Items you, know we order

495
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: all ow little we'll make our own products and sell,

496
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 3: them you. Know so that's Why i've gotten a hobby.

497
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 3: SHOP i went to making. BILLS i could sell bills

498
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 3: in spute.

499
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: Mysel so you worked on your appeals pro se and

500
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: so on your own using the belt business in order

501
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: to make enough money just to get postage and pay

502
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: for documents and try to fight the state in post

503
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: conviction of fighting against them with their unlimited, Resources.

504
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 3: Your, sir and all of them got. Denied but would

505
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 3: really helped me and a bunch of other people when

506
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 3: THE da, files when they made it possible for us to,

507
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 3: have you, know and The Supreme court say we were

508
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 3: entighter to. It that's opened a lot of doors for,

509
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: people because when you get, that you get the information

510
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 3: that can help you something that you wasn't it tighter

511
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: to it one? Time THE da Files and SO i

512
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: found out about The Bill Cans Franker PRINCE da, Files

513
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 3: well that was way. Later and the.

514
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: Teens, Wow so you went in in nineteen seventy seven

515
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: and didn't find out about the fingerprints until well after twenty.

516
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: Twelve so when did The Nison's project Of New orleans get?

517
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: Involved and how did this thing turn?

518
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: Around, basically as soon as he heard about which we

519
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: were founded in two thousand and, one he wrote to

520
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: us and asked for, Help but so did thousands of

521
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: other people and we're only one, office and so as

522
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: best we, can, right we work through. Cases and, unfortunately

523
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: And i'm so sad that Mister brooks had to wait

524
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: even longer For hypno's, help but we were finally able

525
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 2: to start looking at the case. AROUND i believe twenty

526
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: sixteen was WHAT i first wrote to him.

527
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: AND hypno and this Is Project, worlds of, course is

528
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: an incredible, organization and they have done a ton of

529
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: good in a place that has an insane backlog and

530
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: just a tortured history of these kind of. Cases we're,

531
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: talking of, course about the most incarcerated state in the.

532
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: Country almost always Sometimes oklahoma takes their, place they flip,

533
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: low But louisiana it's the most incarcerated state in the

534
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: most incarcerated country in the. World so the task that they,

535
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: face the uphill battle that they fight every, day no

536
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,239
Speaker 1: matter the, year it's, daunting to say the. Least so

537
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: if you listeners can help them with a, dollar one hundred,

538
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: dollars one hundred million, dollars whatever you got laying, around

539
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: we'll have a link in the bio TO, ipno AND

540
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: i hope our audience will be driven to get involved

541
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: and help other people like Mister. Brooks so WHEN ipno

542
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: finally did get, involved what did that investigation look.

543
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: Like so in the post conviction, process one of the

544
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: things we do to investigate is use the public records

545
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: laws and request. Documents and we were able to, write

546
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: go look at, them pick them, up pay for, them

547
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: decide what you want to pay for what you. Don't

548
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: that's something that people who are incarcerated often can't. Do

549
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: though in Mister brooks's, case he actually had a sister

550
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: who was really moved by what happened to her brother

551
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: and she wanted to join the police force to make

552
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: sure that didn't happen to another black, family and she

553
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: unfortunately was injured and so had to eventually resign the.

554
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: Force but during the time that she was there AT,

555
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: atpd she tried to look in the record for documents

556
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: about her brother's, case and she couldn't find. Them she

557
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,719
Speaker 2: was told that they were too, old that they probably

558
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: didn't have them. Anymore so this is something where even

559
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: someone who should be an insider right who's trying to

560
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: help her, brother trying to do these, things and even

561
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: as AN nopd, officer was being told that these documents didn't.

562
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: Exist but as you've heard, before this fingerprint evidence that

563
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: should have stopped this train before it even left the

564
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: station did actually.

565
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: Exist, unfortunately in this, case we were actually never able

566
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: to find the physical. Fingerprints it seems as though they

567
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: were lost or frankly possibly. Destroyed we found handwritten notes,

568
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: that it turns out we learned were written by the

569
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: assistant district attorneys Saying prince Not Elvis. Brooks. Right that

570
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: was written on a notation next to a discussion of

571
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: the fingerprints on the beer. Cans and so when we saw,

572
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: that we, thought, wow, wow you, know what do you?

573
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: Mean let's find these? Fingerprints whose fingerprints? Are and, unfortunately

574
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: because of HOW edpd conducted it's fingerprinting back, then if

575
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: they didn't find a, match if they didn't get AN

576
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 2: id to, someone they just didn't record. It right back

577
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: in nineteen, seventies IF edpd tested someone's, fingerprints compare the

578
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: fingerprints and it wasn't that, person often they just didn't

579
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: write a report because they, thought, well this is of no,

580
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: use Right they, thought if it wasn't their, suspect what

581
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 2: good would it do the same with if they showed

582
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: a photo to someone and they didn't make an. Identification

583
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: very often they would not write a report documenting that

584
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: because it wasn't helpful to their, case and so in this,

585
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: case there was no fingerprint report to. Find there was

586
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: just these notes that happened to document that The prince

587
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: did not belong To Elvis. Brooks so we conducted an

588
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: extensive search for these prints down in like the bowels

589
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 2: of THE edopd building right looking for this. Evidence and

590
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: despite many many hours of, searching we weren't actually able

591
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: to find their, figureprints which is sad because we could

592
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 2: have found out who the real robbers, were, right we

593
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 2: could have actually solved this case and gotten a little

594
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: justice for Mister, lloyd and, unfortunately because of the evidence retention,

595
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 2: practices we just weren't able to do that. Either but

596
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: we were able to file on Mister brooks's behalf based

597
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: on some of this new. Evidence there was also some

598
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: other undisclosed evidence about another crime committed that night by

599
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: people who seemed to match the, description and it was

600
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: committed right around the corner that Mister brooks was also

601
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: never told. About his lawyers never learned. About and so,

602
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 2: unfortunately what we know about what happened the night the

603
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: welcome it was. Robbed is probably only a sliver of

604
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: what investigators actually found out back, Then but because they

605
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: didn't document, it we're left to sort of follow the bread.

606
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: Crumbs and those bread crumbs led to two conclusions that

607
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: they had Prosecuted elvis knowing that he was, innocent and

608
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: That elvis needed to be released. Asap so how did

609
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: the state?

610
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: Respond we were met with procedural objections by the. State

611
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: it's not enough to find new evidence in your. Case

612
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: before you could get any court to listen to your

613
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: new evidence to consider the merits of your, claims you

614
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: have to prove that you basically meet the procedural. Hurdles

615
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: we had to demonstrate that this information had been withheld

616
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 2: from Mister brooks and his. Attorney, unfortunately Mister brooks's attorney was,

617
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 2: deceased and so we had to try to come up

618
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: with other ways to show that he obviously didn't know

619
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 2: this information about the. Fingerprints that had he, known right

620
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 2: this attorney who put on thirteen, witnesses which was just

621
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,959
Speaker 2: unheard of in nineteen seventy, seven that had he known

622
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: that the fingerprints on critical items didn't match his, client

623
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: he obviously would have mentioned that to the, jury.

624
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 1: And once the state was forced to look At elvis's,

625
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: case they must have realized what had. Happened and this

626
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: was The leon khannis our. Administration, still so instead of

627
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: doing the right, thing on the eve of An october,

628
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: fifteenth twenty nineteen, hearing they Brought elvis a. Deal they

629
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 1: were asking that you plead guilty to a lesser charge

630
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: and avoid a potentially very lengthy procedural battle which would

631
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: have cost you much more, time might have even led

632
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: to you dying in. Prison but was that decision to

633
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: struggle for?

634
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 4: You?

635
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 3: YEAH i struggled with. It COULD i always? SEE i,

636
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: SAID i ain't gonna never say guilty to this. Yere

637
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: you know THAT i didn't do. It i'm not gonna

638
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 3: never plead. Guilty BUT i went to danking WHEN i

639
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: was offered a. DEAL i, said, man you gotta use

640
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 3: kind of sense. Sometime you knew because you may not

641
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 3: ever get out of. HERE i just wanted to get,

642
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 3: out you, know BECAUSE i KNOW i didn't do, it

643
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 3: AND i feel like forty two plus year was long.

644
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 3: Enough you, KNOW i just made a. Decision you know

645
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 3: That i'm gonna plead guilty to the lesser charge and get.

646
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 3: Out you, know it was, tough but uh, oh my

647
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: whole family SAY i did the right. Ding you, know

648
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: they wanted to see me. Out this is WHY i

649
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 3: went on and took the plea.

650
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: BAGAIN i, mean we call it a, choice but in

651
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 2: some ways that's not really a fair. Assessment it turns

652
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: out later and we found out that the state was

653
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 2: also aware at the time they offered him right that supposed,

654
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 2: choice that they knew that the trial prosecutor hadn't turned

655
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: over those. Prints they knew that because he told, them,

656
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: frankly probably to avoid, liability THOUGH i could only guess

657
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 2: as to their, motives but they found that out in

658
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: a meeting with the trial, prosecutor and shortly, thereafter within,

659
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: days they offered Mister brooks a.

660
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: Plea so despite the sour taste in your mouth over

661
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: having to plead guilty to get, out you were still

662
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: free and back into the arms of your. Family how

663
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: did that feel after all these?

664
00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 3: Years, whoa it felt, great you, KNOW i really couldn't believe,

665
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 3: it you, know feel real great to be. Out you,

666
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 3: know you're around my family and my, kids my, grandkids

667
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 3: my further, sisters, nephew. Nieces oh damn miss my, parents you,

668
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 3: know THE DDCs now so, well it's a wonderful feeling

669
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: to be getting. Out it ain't going especially everybody telling me,

670
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 3: congratulation you, know AND i was. Leaving they have a

671
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 3: good feeling, there you.

672
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: Know so he was, out but that was not the

673
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: end of. It AND i can't stress this. Enough elections, matter, Folks,

674
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: okay especially the local. Ones The conic And connaisaro eras

675
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 1: left a harmful legacy in their. Wake and even though

676
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: the Young condizarro was not seeking re, Election Jason williams

677
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: was elected at The Orange paris DA's. Office and we

678
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: Interviewed jason on my other, Podcast Righteous. Convictions we're gonna

679
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: have that episode lengthd in the. Bio by the, way

680
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: that having a man of his, Caliber i'm going to

681
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: say it, now a great man Like Jason williams in

682
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: that office means people Like elvis can finally get justice

683
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: and have their names.

684
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 2: Cleared he has cleared his.

685
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 4: Name.

686
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 2: Yeah earlier this, year Mister, brooks represented by a different

687
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: attorney in a different, office did file another application for

688
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: post conviction, relief seeking to withdraw his guilty plea and

689
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: seeking to have his conviction overturned and so that was

690
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 2: granted this, year meaning that at this point Mister brooks

691
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: is fully exonerated as much as you can be in

692
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 2: the criminal legal. System and in, fact the day that

693
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 2: Mister brooks was able to go into court and that was,

694
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: decided THE ada at that time made it very clear

695
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: and apologized to him for all those years that were

696
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: taken from him wrongfully and acknowledged his.

697
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: Innocence this was, attorneys they admit To, rondo you, know

698
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 3: to see They withhill and. Elvidents you, know it could

699
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: have clear my name years, ago you, Know and they

700
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: asked me how LONG i? TOO i say forty two plus,

701
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 3: years you, KNOW i was locked. Up you, know it

702
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 3: was great to get that. Done you, know LIKE i,

703
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 3: SAID i would want board away from the tip. Ending

704
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 3: it took my whole youth from. Me it took the

705
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 3: best years of my, life.

706
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: You, know and nothing could ever replace. It you have

707
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: my deepest sympathies for. That and we'll have action steps

708
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: for our audience if they'd like to help. You by,

709
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: THAT i, mean there's An amazon wish list and a freedom,

710
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: Fund so if you've got the wherewithal to do, it

711
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: then please do. Help it means a. Lot and with

712
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: that we now turn to the closing of our, show

713
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: which of course is called closing. Arguments and it's the

714
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: part of the show THAT i always look forward. To

715
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: it's WHERE i get to turn off my. Mic that's

716
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: not WHY i look forward. To it's because of what

717
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: we're about to. Hear because WHEN i turn my mic,

718
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: Off i'm going to leave your MIC's on so that

719
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: you can share any closing. Thoughts it's why it's called

720
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 1: closing arguments with me and our. Audience thank you, Again.

721
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: Cherrelle why don't we start with you? First and Then

722
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: elvis please take us out into the. Sunset you, KNOW.

723
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you having us and for letting Mister

724
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: brooks share a little bit of what happened to. Him

725
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: AND i think in some ways this case is extraordinary

726
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 2: in that every TIME i look at a new, FILE

727
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 2: i hope that we're going to find something as sort

728
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 2: of earth shattering as the physical evidence in Mister brooks's.

729
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: Case it's, Fingerprints but in many ways it's more a

730
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: kid almost to A dna. Exoneration, Right this isn't just

731
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 2: a he, said she, Said this is this tangible evidence didn't,

732
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: match and they do it didn't, match and they Framed

733
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 2: Elvis brooks, anyways and they did it because they. Could

734
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 2: and it's a. System where could they do it again? Today?

735
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 2: SURE i THINK i think they. Could and so a

736
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: lot of it is just about to me how little

737
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 2: thought anyone gave to what they were. Doing they did

738
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 2: it because they, Could they did it because it was.

739
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 2: Easy maybe they thought Mister brooks was a. Troublemaker maybe they.

740
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: DIDN'T i don't. KNOW i don't. Care, frankly it doesn't

741
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 2: make it. Right he was a poor black boy who

742
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 2: didn't have the means to defend, himself and they did

743
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 2: it because they.

744
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 3: Could i'm Just i'm just so happy to be amongst

745
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: the free people, again you, know me at the forty

746
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 3: two plus. Years you, know my help not really good right,

747
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 3: now but you Know i'm. Alive you, Know i'm all

748
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: here with my. Family you, know LIKE i, said all

749
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 3: the people are missing with my mom and dad because they,

750
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 3: passed you, know but everything else is. Good you. Know,

751
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 3: NO i appreciate whatever y'all could, do you, know prayers

752
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 3: and all. That you, know we need. That you, know

753
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 3: look at this, waiting this world coming to right. Now it's,

754
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 3: ridiculous you. Know i'd like to just thank, Y'all Thank Dan,

755
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 3: surpriject thank, everybody thank, you.

756
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening To Wrongful. Conviction i'd like to

757
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: thank our production Team Connor, Hall Jeff, cliburn And Kevin,

758
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: wartis with research By Lyla. Robinson the music in this

759
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: production was supplied by three TIME oscar nominated Composer Jay.

760
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: Ralph be sure to follow us On instagram At Wrongful,

761
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: conviction On facebook At Wrongful Conviction, podcast and On twitter

762
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: at Wrong, conviction as well as At lava For. Good

763
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: on all three, platforms you can also follow me on

764
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: both TikTok And instagram at It's Jason. Flapper Wrongful conviction

765
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,160
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766
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: With Signal Company number one