Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2: And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
Speaker 2: for you about gaffilter fish.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think I know the answer, but any particular
Speaker 1: reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2: Yes, as we record this, the Jewish holiday Passover is
Speaker 2: right coming right up, and this is a dish that
Speaker 2: is associated with Jewish holidays like Passover.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I believe I've told this story before. My
Speaker 1: one and only experience with gafilter fish was when I
Speaker 1: went to in college. I went to a friend of
Speaker 1: mine's Passover. Oh, and I could tell it was a dish,
Speaker 1: like everyone was looking at me to see how I
Speaker 1: would react, you know, And I tried and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's good, no complaints.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think if you're if you're totally unfamiliar,
Speaker 2: sometimes American palettes aren't east to the concept of like
Speaker 2: a fish meatball kind of kind of thing, and particularly
Speaker 2: if it's served chilled, that might be something that you're
Speaker 2: just slightly confused by. But but yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: food is good.
Speaker 1: I like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we I did, not to be fair, I did
Speaker 2: not like a field fish when I was a kid,
Speaker 2: and I haven't had it very often as an adult.
Speaker 2: When I was a kid, it was just it was
Speaker 2: too fishy for me, and right there was a texture
Speaker 2: thing going on that I was not accustomed to and
Speaker 2: therefore was kind of wary of. But also like my
Speaker 2: family served it out of the jar, So I feel
Speaker 2: like that might be that might have something to do
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 1: I have seen a lot lot of similar compellints, yeah,
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about later. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, briefly, fast fast over passover being a feast day. Sorry,
Speaker 2: mixed up the words feast and past. Where I liked
Speaker 2: it is a is a feast day that is in
Speaker 2: remembrance and and celebration of the Jewish people getting out
Speaker 2: of Egypt basically, so yeah.
Speaker 1: Yes, And you can see our past episodes on MATSA
Speaker 1: and Lucas maybe sure also aspect horse Radish. Oh, I
Speaker 1: like all those. That's an interesting combination. I guess that
Speaker 1: brings us to our question.
Speaker 2: I guess it does. I feel like I've got a
Speaker 2: lot of spoilers in here, but yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Gefilter fish, what is it?
Speaker 2: Well, gafilter fish is a type of minced fish loaf
Speaker 2: or dumpling that can come in a lot of varieties,
Speaker 2: but what you're basically looking at is some kind or
Speaker 2: kinds of usually fresh water, white fleshed fish, chopped fine
Speaker 2: and then mixed with a mazza meal or maybe breadcrumbs,
Speaker 2: diced onion, egg and seasonings basic stuff like salt and
Speaker 2: pepper and maybe sugar, and then formed into small loaves
Speaker 2: and cooked until tender, usually in a method like poaching
Speaker 2: or steaming that gives them a soft finish. They can
Speaker 2: be served chilled or room temperature or warm, often as
Speaker 2: an appetizer with a with like a horse radish sauce
Speaker 2: like hot horse radish, often for holiday meals. When gafilter
Speaker 2: fish is chilled, they gel up a bit with an
Speaker 2: almost aspect sort of quality. When warm, they's fluffy. They're
Speaker 2: a non crispy fish cake. They inspire some strong nostalgia
Speaker 2: and other strong opinions for me. At their best, they're
Speaker 2: like if you took just a spoonful of like hearty
Speaker 2: clear broth fish stew and made it delicate. It's a
Speaker 2: it's a kind of practical sort of treat. It's like
Speaker 2: it's like pulling on a fine sweater.
Speaker 1: I do like putting on a fine sweater.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, uh okay. I will say at the
Speaker 2: top here that some of these strong opinions about cafil
Speaker 2: to fish come from people only having been exposed to
Speaker 2: the manufactured jarred type, which tend to be like simultaneously
Speaker 2: extra strongly fishy and extra soft in texture. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's a canned dumpling, Like what do you expect? And
Speaker 2: this is one of those cases where handmade is like
Speaker 2: almost a different creature. Though, I like, I haven't had
Speaker 2: the jarred kind since I was a kid, and now
Speaker 2: I'm going, like what I like them? I like strongly
Speaker 2: fishy flavors.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Anyway, Also note here that if you're unfamiliar with kosher observances,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna mention a couple things throughout the episode, but
Speaker 2: like that's a different episode. Like, if you're not familiar
Speaker 2: and you're planning on cooking for someone who does keep kosher,
Speaker 2: you should either look up kosher recipes or just ask
Speaker 2: them what's appropriate, as with any dietary preference or restriction. Also,
Speaker 2: in addition to not being scientists or dieticians, I'm not
Speaker 2: an expert in kosher observances.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're experts and a couple of things, but a
Speaker 1: lot of them surprisingly are not food based at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're learning with all of you.
Speaker 2: But okay, so let's unpack those ingredients first. The fish,
Speaker 2: whatever is local and fresh and preferred can work, but
Speaker 2: like nice, mild, flaky types of white freshwater fish are
Speaker 2: the most common. Things like pike, carp or whitefish. Things
Speaker 2: that are you know, like a little delicately sweet, a
Speaker 2: little fishy, not too oily. Note that not all fish
Speaker 2: are kosher. For example, catfish are not because they don't
Speaker 2: have scales. Again, kosher stuff separate episode. Next. Fine chopped
Speaker 2: onion and possibly other aromatic vegetables like maybe carrots can
Speaker 2: add some flavor and some texture in there. Sometimes these
Speaker 2: will be cooked before being added so that they're not
Speaker 2: too crunchy in the final product. Egg and mozza meal
Speaker 2: are in to bind everything together and lead to like
Speaker 2: a light and tender texture. Mozza meal is the coarseish
Speaker 2: ground meal made from matza, which are unlovened crackers usually
Speaker 2: made out of wheat flour. They're good at soaking up
Speaker 2: moisture and flavor, while like maintaining fluff as long as
Speaker 2: you don't pack them too hard. Egg white proteins meanwhile,
Speaker 2: unfurl when they're heated and then form like springy little
Speaker 2: chains and webs that can trap moisture as well, as
Speaker 2: long as you don't heat them too much. Further past
Speaker 2: that point, egg yolks provide richness. Other season seasonings tend
Speaker 2: to be minimal salt, pepper, maybe lemon juice or nutmeg
Speaker 2: or something like that. Some traditions do add a bit
Speaker 2: of sugar to play on the slight sweetness of the fish.
Speaker 2: It's usually just a bit of sugar, like sweet like
Speaker 2: a crab cake, not sweet like a birthday cake. Usually, again,
Speaker 2: people have opinions. The cooking method really can vary. Like traditionally,
Speaker 2: what you do is you get a whole fish, or
Speaker 2: like a bunch of hole fish. Really, you remove the
Speaker 2: filets and then make a fish stock using the heads
Speaker 2: and bones plus some you know, onions, carrots, celery whatever. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: you find, chop the fish, mix it with the other ingredients,
Speaker 2: and gently hand press it into like little oval dumplings
Speaker 2: like the size of an egg or like a canal.
Speaker 2: You know. Then when the stock is done, you strain
Speaker 2: it and heat it to just poaching temperature like hot
Speaker 2: but well under a simmer, you know, and then gently
Speaker 2: poach the dumplings until the fish is cooked and the
Speaker 2: egg holds everything together. At this point they can be
Speaker 2: served warm or stored in the fridge to chill, and
Speaker 2: then later served either directly or gently reheated. When cafilter
Speaker 2: fish is chilled in a bit of that fish stock,
Speaker 2: the stock will form up into you know, a sort
Speaker 2: of like gela or aspec due to the gelatin in
Speaker 2: the fish bones, you know, like a like a savory
Speaker 2: fish broth jello kind of situation. And so when they're
Speaker 2: served chilled, a bit of the gel is often served
Speaker 2: along with the gaffelda fish. The kind of traditional or
Speaker 2: maybe old fashioned way I guess of serving them is
Speaker 2: with a coin of cooked carrot on top of each
Speaker 2: piece and then an accompaniment of prepared horsepratish that is
Speaker 2: fresh grated horsepradish with a bit of vinegar to preserve
Speaker 2: the spiciness. Yeah, or maybe like a cold sauce made
Speaker 2: with horsepratish and beets or mayo or something maybe like
Speaker 2: on top a leaf lettuce or with sprigs of parsley
Speaker 2: or dill. But people do all kinds of takes. I've
Speaker 2: seen recipes for steamed cafilter fish, baked cafilter fish, gafilter
Speaker 2: made with cold smoked fish, or with nice rich salmon.
Speaker 2: You can form larger loaves and then slice them into
Speaker 2: individual portions after cooking and or chilling. There are regional
Speaker 2: rifts of fish cakes that are fried or that are
Speaker 2: so with a tomato sauce or served with a lemon sauce.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I just had the traditional carrot on top.
Speaker 1: It was cold, but it was savory. I remember that.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was good.
Speaker 1: What about the nutrition.
Speaker 2: I guess by themselves. It depends on how you make it,
Speaker 2: as with any dish, you know, by themselves. Cathelta fish
Speaker 2: are pretty good for you, you know, like decent punch of protein.
Speaker 2: It can can be can range high in fats depending
Speaker 2: on how you make them. But yeah, I'd say overall, yeah,
Speaker 2: drink water, eat a vegetable that isn't just a single
Speaker 2: coin of carrot.
Speaker 1: Day. All right, Well, the numbers.
Speaker 2: We have known for you, I have no numbers for you.
Speaker 2: I could not find numbers about the global production of
Speaker 2: manufactured gafilter fish and I maybe I didn't look that hard.
Speaker 2: I could have looked harder.
Speaker 1: This is probably my fault. It's okay, Lauren, Well yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. Okay, listeners, they'll forgive it. It's the
Speaker 1: holidays were about right forget Yeah, sure, well we do
Speaker 1: have quite a history for you. We do.
Speaker 2: But first we've got a quick break for a word
Speaker 2: from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. Uh So.
Speaker 2: Although gafilter fish is a dish that is in and
Speaker 2: like small loaf, formed today, it started out as a
Speaker 2: type of stuffed or or force meat fish dish. The
Speaker 2: Yiddish term gefilta comes from a word for stuffed.
Speaker 1: Yes, and the first recipe for stuffed pike appeared in
Speaker 1: a non Jewish German cookbook from around thirteen fifty CE.
Speaker 1: The recipe called for herbs like saffron and stage to
Speaker 1: be mixed together with fish meat and then put back
Speaker 1: into the fish skin for roasting. Soon after, similar recipes
Speaker 1: started appearing in French cookbooks and yeah, during Lint and
Speaker 1: other religious days for Catholics, this and dishes like it
Speaker 1: were very popular for you know, abstaining from meat.
Speaker 2: Because fish don't count is meat for complicated other reasons.
Speaker 1: Yeah, complicated other reasons. Indeed, sometime during the Middle Ages,
Speaker 1: some Jewish communities in Europe adopted the dish in some celebrations,
Speaker 1: since fish dishes were often and symbolic of a lot
Speaker 1: of things in Judaism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, prosperity, protection, fertility.
Speaker 1: Yes, And for a while there were a lot of
Speaker 1: regional takes on this dish, different types of fish used,
Speaker 1: based on what was readily available, different preparations, but one
Speaker 1: thing was fairly true across all of it. It was
Speaker 1: time consuming m h yep. That is until a new,
Speaker 1: less arduous preparation came alone. Many Jewish households in Europe
Speaker 1: started making dumplings with fish, eggs and mozzamiale by the
Speaker 1: seventeenth century. That could be viewed as a precursor to
Speaker 1: more common modern preparations of filter fish, and it was.
Speaker 1: It was a popular dish for a lot of reasons
Speaker 1: for Jewish folks in Europe, perhaps especially to those with
Speaker 1: easy access to fish. It was fairly cheap, it was convenient,
Speaker 1: and could be made ahead of time to meet religious stipulations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not spoke to do work during the Sabbath
Speaker 2: or high holidays, and work includes pulling the bones out
Speaker 2: of fish. But you could make these dumplings like the
Speaker 2: day before, and you know they're by nature boneless, and
Speaker 2: they're pre cooked for consumption the day of.
Speaker 1: I'm all for it. In nineteenth century Poland, the introduction
Speaker 1: of the sugar beet industry led to sweet gafilter fish.
Speaker 1: At the time, imported sugar was incredibly expensive in Europe,
Speaker 1: so Europeans were looking for cheaper alternatives. One of these
Speaker 1: alternatives was the sugar beet, and the first sugar beet
Speaker 1: factory opened in southern Poland in the early eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 1: It was a success, and the resulting sugar was utilized
Speaker 1: in a variety of dishes and in a variety of ways.
Speaker 1: Jewish people in Poland took dishes that had traditionally been
Speaker 1: typically savory and added the sugar to make them sweet,
Speaker 1: including gafilter fish.
Speaker 2: I understand this is also where like sweet coogles come from.
Speaker 2: Still have not had the wherewithal to do a cocol episode.
Speaker 2: It's difficult, y'all. But again, in terms of gafilterfish, it's
Speaker 2: usually a little sweet, not like dessert sweet, although like
Speaker 2: kind of the further west you go, apparently the sweeter,
Speaker 2: the tradition sort of becomes. Research in fact points to
Speaker 2: a Gaffilter fish line or divide in Europe, with regions
Speaker 2: including most of Poland and everything to the west having
Speaker 2: adopted sweetened versions of Gafilter fish and regions to the
Speaker 2: east having stuck with more savory and perhaps increasingly peppery versions.
Speaker 1: Yes, opinions m hm oh, yeah, pinions abound on that,
Speaker 1: and this is also just one of many yeah, regional
Speaker 1: variations that popped up in Europe around this time based
Speaker 1: on taste and available ingredients. With the immigration of Ashkenazi
Speaker 1: Jews to America and eighteen hundreds, recipes for these fish
Speaker 1: balls or fish dumplings as they were called started appearing
Speaker 1: in Jewish American cookbooks. This dish did go by a
Speaker 1: few names for a while, some of them are kind
Speaker 1: of funny you want to look them up, until they
Speaker 1: were finally labeled in print as gefilter fish in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty five of note Gaffield fish took a different path
Speaker 1: for Jewish immigrants in Mexico based on available ingredients and
Speaker 1: preferred preparations in the early twentieth century, before many had
Speaker 1: access to refrigeration. Allegedly, some Jewish homes would keep fish
Speaker 1: live in their bathtubs for a few days prior to
Speaker 1: something like Passover, before they were eaten. This obviously wasn't
Speaker 1: the easiest thing for some, this was taking up their
Speaker 1: only bathtub, so a little before World War Two, Mother's
Speaker 1: Fish Products, the brainchild of Sidney Leibner, started selling canned,
Speaker 1: ready made gaffilter fish as an alternative. Later, the company
Speaker 1: switched to selling this product in jars. Menschevitz, a company
Speaker 1: we've discussed previously, soon follows suit, as did a few
Speaker 1: other Jewish specialty food companies.
Speaker 2: Amidst all of this, four people who still wanted to
Speaker 2: make theirs at home. Some recipes in the convenience hungary
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties called for canned tuna so that you wouldn't even.
Speaker 1: Have to cook them, And then the nineteen seventies saw
Speaker 1: the arrival of frozen loaves of cafilter fish that were
Speaker 1: simple enough to make in your own home. Simply boil
Speaker 1: some water with carrot, celery and onions and then add
Speaker 1: in the frozen loaf. There you go.
Speaker 2: That's what a lot of people will do with the
Speaker 2: like Manishevitz the jarred kind? Yeah, just you know, fancy
Speaker 2: it up a tiny bit with yeah, a little bit
Speaker 2: of home home soup.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm into it. I'm into it. Conservative commentator William F.
Speaker 1: Buckley wrote in response to what he viewed as an
Speaker 1: attempt at handering on the part of Ronald Reagan President
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan at the time eating spaghetti to court the
Speaker 1: Italian American vote quote, it is simply good manners to
Speaker 1: pretend to enjoy what you are served, though an exception
Speaker 1: might here be made of gafilter fish, the conception of
Speaker 1: which reasonable epicureans might conclude is not worth going through
Speaker 1: to gain admission to the White House. Wow, all right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, being president is cool, but not cool enough to
Speaker 2: want to eat gafilter fish. I get it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah again opinions. There was a in twenty fourteen a
Speaker 2: North American gafilter fish shortage in Deli's around passover due
Speaker 2: to that polar vortex that year that kept the Great
Speaker 2: Lakes iced over longer and thicker than usual. Apparently, reader
Speaker 2: of The New York Times wrote in after they reported
Speaker 2: on the story to say scarcity of gaffilter fish. This
Speaker 2: is the best news since the Red Sea parted. Oh
Speaker 2: my goodness, y'all are welcome for me not going like
Speaker 2: full Rotney Dangerfield. Meanwhile, the Gaffilteriea launched in twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: They are a media company that does like workshops and
Speaker 2: cookbooks and stuff, with a mission of exploring and spreading
Speaker 2: European Jewish cuisine. One of their initial things that they
Speaker 2: did was producing and selling artisanal gafilter fish online, though
Speaker 2: they had to shut that down. They had to shut
Speaker 2: that whole arm down in twenty twenty three. But about it,
Speaker 2: they say on their website to this day, we're pretty
Speaker 2: sure it's the only the filter fish ever featured in Vogue.
Speaker 1: All Right, Yeah, I feel like I saw a lot
Speaker 1: of articles where people are branching out from the jarred
Speaker 1: stuff and finding better versions. Perhaps.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I mean there can be there's an
Speaker 2: interest in and can be an improvement to jarred anything.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, like, do I sometimes purchase a
Speaker 2: jar of pre made Manza balls for manishevits?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Is it better than homemade Mansa balls?
Speaker 1: No? Is it more convenient?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And there are ways you can make those. As
Speaker 1: we've demonstrated throughout this, I think you can make those
Speaker 1: canned things. You can give them a little.
Speaker 2: More Oh yeah, yeah, oh sure, absolutely, yeah, I add
Speaker 2: your own flavor spins on them. I it is, it
Speaker 2: is really, it's a little bit of a pain in
Speaker 2: the toukis. But but I personally find making matza balls
Speaker 2: or meatballs or anything like that by hand very soothing.
Speaker 2: It's just like a really nice, repetitive task that at
Speaker 2: the end of you get matza balls or meatballs, and
Speaker 2: so it's ultimately very worth it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a nice take on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they can just be so much lighter and
Speaker 2: fluffier than you usually I mean, if you go to
Speaker 2: like a nice restaurant.
Speaker 1: Sure, but yeah, and usually with things like this, you're
Speaker 1: not doing it. I did read one article or someone
Speaker 1: who's like, we should eat a filter fish way more often.
Speaker 2: But you're not.
Speaker 1: You're not eating something like this all the time.
Speaker 2: It's a holiday dish, yeah, for the most part. Also,
Speaker 2: I mean, food processors are amazing, what a great invention.
Speaker 1: Future episode. Oh no, more homework. But in the meantime,
Speaker 1: that is what we have to say about filter fish.
Speaker 1: For now it is.
Speaker 2: We would love to hear from y'all though, if you
Speaker 2: have any experiences or memories or recipe hacks. We do
Speaker 2: already have some listener mail for you, though, and we
Speaker 2: are going to get into that as soon as we
Speaker 2: get back from one more quick break for a word
Speaker 2: from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
Speaker 1: we're back with listeners. Oh that was a nice one.
Speaker 1: We'll see how it sounds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just thinking.
Speaker 1: Oh, I was very off key of you, But that's
Speaker 1: on brands I think best fun. I can't sing in key, like,
Speaker 1: what is this on key you speak of? No, that's
Speaker 1: not That's not what I do. I make a strong
Speaker 1: attempt and fail.
Speaker 2: We're a lot of funny karaoke. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm great at carrios. Oh yeah, meaning I'm enthusiastic but terrible. Yes.
Speaker 1: All right, So we have gotten so many tea opinions
Speaker 1: who thank you, yes, and listeners keep sending them in.
Speaker 1: This is fantastic. So we'll start with Kelsey. Kelsey wrote,
Speaker 1: my only strong opinion on tea is when I recently
Speaker 1: learned is moderately controversial for me. Milk or milk like
Speaker 1: liquid should always be added to one's cup before the tea,
Speaker 1: pouring in the tea afterward, especially if you can get
Speaker 1: some height involved. Auto mixes the two quite nicely. Apparently,
Speaker 1: in Britain and Britain Leaning cultures, the order in which
Speaker 1: milk and tea are added to one's cup has class
Speaker 1: connotations m shrug emoji only barely relatedly. The digestive system
Speaker 1: of my spouse is forever at war with garlic and onions.
Speaker 1: In order to flavor our food, I have repurposed my
Speaker 1: tea infusure as a soup stew sauce infuser. I fill
Speaker 1: it with minced aromatics and flop it in a simmering
Speaker 1: liquid as if it were a bouquet ghani. If I
Speaker 1: plan ahead or just don't forget, I sauta the aliums
Speaker 1: before infusing. Works better than no onions, and I add
Speaker 1: the solids from inside the infuser into my own bowl.
Speaker 1: So we're both happy. That's amazing. That's a good idea.
Speaker 1: I have a friend who's onion adverse. I'll say, okay,
Speaker 1: and maybe this, maybe this could work.
Speaker 2: Maybe it depends. It depends on the severity of the war.
Speaker 2: And so I mean if your spouse is anything like me.
Speaker 2: It depends on what other foods they've cheated with that
Speaker 2: day that they know that they shouldn't really consume, because
Speaker 2: for me, it's like a cumulative over the day or
Speaker 2: over a couple days kind of situation for me, I
Speaker 2: don't know that would be better than me having to
Speaker 2: pick around garlic and onions, but it wouldn't be as
Speaker 2: good as not cooking with the garlic and onions. And
Speaker 2: I say that understanding that garlic and onions are very
Speaker 2: delicious and that I want everyone to eat as many
Speaker 2: of them as they want to.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Laura. Oh yeah, my friend, she's not I know.
Speaker 1: I've told this story before because it makes me laugh.
Speaker 1: She's not intolerant or anything. She just thinks flavors overpowering.
Speaker 1: And she's on a reddit breddit about people who don't
Speaker 1: like onions, and it got infiltrated by people who like us.
Speaker 1: It was my favorite. I was laughing so hard. So
Speaker 1: I think if it, like, if I could lighten the
Speaker 1: she'll eat them. It's just the flavors overpower.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so certainly a whole chunk of it in
Speaker 2: there would be unpleasant to her, Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Also, I have to say I thought that there was
Speaker 1: a typo in here, but I had to look it up.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of bouquet arni, which is French term.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. It's when you tie up a little
Speaker 2: bundle of herbs and you toss it into your thing
Speaker 2: and then it's easy to take out as a bundle
Speaker 2: so that it doesn't float around in your stuff.
Speaker 1: I was like, what in the world is this? Did
Speaker 1: you mean Garnish? So thank you I learned something new.
Speaker 1: Oh yea. And also yeah, listeners write in about this milk?
Speaker 1: Do you put in the milk? If you put in
Speaker 1: the milk. I certainly got a lot of opinions when
Speaker 1: I was in England, but I don't know what any
Speaker 1: of I don't know. You're confused by the entire I'm stressed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I like that. I think that that makes sense
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So that you don't have to do the
Speaker 2: work of stirring. Yeah, sometimes I like doing the work
Speaker 2: of stirring, especially if you're adding sugar in. I don't know,
Speaker 2: I mean, it depends, it depends.
Speaker 1: There could be places for all, you know, something that Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't want to you don't want to.
Speaker 2: Stir I am. I am curious about the class connotations
Speaker 2: though emoji. Indeed, yeah, listeners right in one one more
Speaker 2: note about onions and then and then I'll be quiet
Speaker 2: about it. But but I personally have found that a
Speaker 2: mixture of carrots and so can do a different but
Speaker 2: cool thing in dishes that call for onions and garlic
Speaker 2: if you're looking to avoid those things. And furthermore, if
Speaker 2: a dish calls for bell peppers in a similar aromatic
Speaker 2: vegetable kind of way, tilmu teo sometimes can work in there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, depends on what you're making. Wanted to say
Speaker 2: it out loud. There you go, Sheldon wrote. First, some background,
Speaker 2: I've been drinking tea for almost seventy years. The way
Speaker 2: Annie is with tea is the way I am with coffee.
Speaker 2: Just don't like the stuff. My grandmother was born in
Speaker 2: Ireland in the eighteen nineties. She started me on tea
Speaker 2: as a young child by making me a cup of
Speaker 2: tea which was ninety percent milk and a lot of sugar.
Speaker 1: As I got.
Speaker 2: Older, it became stronger tea without the sugar. So my
Speaker 2: grandmother was drinking tea before the invention of the tea bag.
Speaker 2: She never liked tea and bags. When she moved in
Speaker 2: with us after the death of my grandfather, we used
Speaker 2: to have the more expensive loose tea just for her,
Speaker 2: and everyone else had to use the tea in the bags.
Speaker 2: There is one thing she told me about tea bags
Speaker 2: that stayed with me all my life. She said that
Speaker 2: at the tea factory, each night they would sweep the
Speaker 2: floor and they would use that for filling the tea bags.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if she really believed that or not. Also,
Speaker 2: here in Canada, the tea bags do not have a
Speaker 2: string on them. You have to remove it from the
Speaker 2: cup with a spoon, though I usually use my fingers.
Speaker 2: The slight burn is the price I pay for being
Speaker 2: too lazy to get up to get a spoon. The
Speaker 2: tea bags here also have slightly more tea in them
Speaker 2: than US bags for a slightly stronger cup of tea.
Speaker 1: Interesting. Okay, I have to say I've heard that what
Speaker 1: I've fairly certain as a rumor.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I've I've heard that before as well.
Speaker 2: Now I can't remember who would have said that to
Speaker 2: me or in what context, but at any rate, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the It's definitely a thing. I'm pretty sure. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just an urban legend, but but that is how
Speaker 2: people who dislike teabags feel about it.
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is emotionally true, if nothing else exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: I don't think, I this is really interesting to me,
Speaker 1: just because I don't think I had tea other than
Speaker 1: like sweet tea until I was in college. I don't think.
Speaker 1: I I don't know. I don't know if that's strange
Speaker 1: for an American or not. I know for other countries
Speaker 1: that's not the case.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think the I think the first my
Speaker 2: first exposure to tea was in like Chinese restaurants, but
Speaker 2: occasionally my Jewish grandmother would brew hot tea. But other
Speaker 2: than that, yeah, it was like cold like iced tea
Speaker 2: until relatively recently. By relative, I don't know what time
Speaker 2: is anymore, so I might mean just after college, which
Speaker 2: has been a minute.
Speaker 1: I also do kind of love. Somebody in my family
Speaker 1: who's younger than me. She bought like a blue, a
Speaker 1: fancy blue tea kettle in all these loose leave teas
Speaker 1: she was going to. It felt like a very you know,
Speaker 1: I'm going to read this book and make this teah
Speaker 1: and then she did. The convenience factor is gone. So
Speaker 1: it is interesting to me the strong opinions people have
Speaker 1: and sort of the sometimes romanticizing of that, not the
Speaker 1: tea bag, of the original process of making tea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it can be very nice. I do
Speaker 2: enjoy the process and the accoutrem but not if I've
Speaker 2: just woken up and I need some caffeine, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like that is when a tea bag is very good.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's kind of the same. I used to be
Speaker 1: the same where if I had a what I used
Speaker 1: to call lazy Sundays, which I didn't know was a
Speaker 1: whole thing pop culturally, but anyway, I used to make
Speaker 1: a French press of coffee, but I would only do
Speaker 1: it on the you know, Sundays where I woke up
Speaker 1: and I felt rested and I was like, I have
Speaker 1: time to do this. Otherwise I'm like, just get me
Speaker 1: that caf It's possible.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, absolutely, I mean right, and like
Speaker 2: you know, like I've I've been to as an adult.
Speaker 2: You know, I've had friends throw like tea parties and
Speaker 2: they were very nice. But a lot of work.
Speaker 1: So much work, yes, which is lovely. Sometimes, Sure, you
Speaker 1: just need the quick you need the quick figure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not when you just need the caffeine exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks to both of these listeners for writing it.
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