WEBVTT - EP 28 – Hannah, Pt. 1

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, it's Andrea Gunning. Our season of weekly stories is

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<v Speaker 1>coming to an end, but don't worry. We'll be back

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<v Speaker 1>soon with more episodes. So if you have a story

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<v Speaker 1>of your own that you'd like to share on the podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>email us at Betrayal pod at gmail dot com. In

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<v Speaker 1>the meantime, we want to do something new and exciting.

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<v Speaker 1>This month, We're taking short creative essays submissions from listeners.

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<v Speaker 1>The theme is resilience in the face of a devastating betrayal.

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<v Speaker 1>We want to hear the story of how you healed

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<v Speaker 1>scars and all. Here's the catch. The limit is a

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<v Speaker 1>thousand words. If your story stands out, it might be

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<v Speaker 1>featured in a bonus episode. Please save your submission as

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<v Speaker 1>a PDF and email it to Betrayal Pod at gmail

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. Okay, now onto the episode.

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<v Speaker 2>At this point, my heart has just dropped. Then I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like I'm going to vomit. The betrayal felt so

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<v Speaker 2>intentional and possibly it was a long time coming.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about

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<v Speaker 1>the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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<v Speaker 1>change everything. Betrayals often come with a loss. On this show,

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<v Speaker 1>we've heard stories from people who lost the love of

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<v Speaker 1>their life or their understanding of who that person was.

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<v Speaker 1>Others have had their children, their home, or their money

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<v Speaker 1>taken from them. We've told stories about people losing their

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<v Speaker 1>sense of self. But no matter the betrayal, everyone we've

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<v Speaker 1>talked to has held on to one thing, their story.

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<v Speaker 1>Even when they lost everything, they still had the truth.

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<v Speaker 1>But then we heard Hannah Patard's story.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember writing stories from the time I was a

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<v Speaker 2>little girl.

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<v Speaker 1>Today, Hannah is an accomplished author. Stories have always been

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<v Speaker 1>a big part of who she is. When she was little,

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<v Speaker 1>Hannah's family lived on a farm outside of Atlanta. There,

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<v Speaker 1>her imagination would run wild.

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<v Speaker 2>We had horses, chickens, born kittens. It was a wonderful time, but.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't a wonderful time for everyone. When she was

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<v Speaker 1>in elementary school, Hannah's parents began a bitter divorce. Hannah

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<v Speaker 1>was the youngest of three, and at first the siblings

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<v Speaker 1>all had each other, but eventually her older siblings went

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<v Speaker 1>off to boarding school and Hannah was left at home

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle of her parents' custody battle.

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<v Speaker 2>I was constantly getting interviewed by a different therapist. It

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<v Speaker 2>felt to my mind like we were constantly going to

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<v Speaker 2>see a judge.

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<v Speaker 1>Her escape was reading.

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<v Speaker 2>I read, and I would just go into this fictional

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<v Speaker 2>dream and block out the noise of whatever was happening

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<v Speaker 2>in the other room.

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<v Speaker 1>That's when she started writing stories of her own.

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<v Speaker 2>By sixth grade, I was writing poems, horrible, sad, sac poems,

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<v Speaker 2>and as a thirteen fourteen year old, I had started

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<v Speaker 2>writing little sketches and just became pretty serious about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Writing felt exciting. It allowed her to get lost in

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<v Speaker 1>worlds of her own creation. But in her real life,

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<v Speaker 1>Hannah was lonely, so she asked her parents to send

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<v Speaker 1>her to boarding school. She thought it would be her

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<v Speaker 1>chance to start over, to reinvent herself, But when she

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<v Speaker 1>got there.

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<v Speaker 2>I was still meek, naturally introverted, living in my head

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<v Speaker 2>writing stories.

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<v Speaker 1>Hannah chose Deerfield Academy, a school known for its challenging academics.

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<v Speaker 1>It was cutthroat, but Hannah hardly noticed.

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<v Speaker 2>I was blissfully unaware of what an elite institution it was,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was blissfully unaware of any kind of real competition. Truly,

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<v Speaker 2>the worst part of it was what I was doing

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<v Speaker 2>in private to myself.

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<v Speaker 1>By tenth grade, Hannah developed an eating disorder, and as

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<v Speaker 1>a note to listeners, we're going to talk about some

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<v Speaker 1>details of her experience. For Hannah, controlling food was a

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<v Speaker 1>way for her to feel a false sense of control.

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<v Speaker 1>It only made the divide between her and her peers

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<v Speaker 1>grow wider.

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<v Speaker 2>You're a kid with a secret, and it's a really

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<v Speaker 2>big secret. It is a secret where you are hurting

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<v Speaker 2>your body in this intentional way, and you're not relying

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<v Speaker 2>on the world, and you're not trusting anybody else because

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<v Speaker 2>you don't want to get caught. You're just so much

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<v Speaker 2>by yourself socially, I was definitely isolated and isolating.

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<v Speaker 1>She kept her head down and focused on her studies,

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<v Speaker 1>especially her English and creative writing classes.

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<v Speaker 2>By the time I graduated, I'd won a couple writing awards,

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<v Speaker 2>so I had this idea that maybe I was good,

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<v Speaker 2>or I could be.

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<v Speaker 1>Good for college. She went to the University of Chicago

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<v Speaker 1>and got her degree in English.

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<v Speaker 2>I was too intimidated to take a single creative writing class.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to be told that I wasn't as

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<v Speaker 2>good as I felt like i'd been on Deerfield's campus.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought, if I'm not saying what I want, then

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<v Speaker 2>nobody knows to be disappointed in me or embarrassed on

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<v Speaker 2>my behalf. Oh, you didn't get it. You wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>be a writer, and you didn't get it.

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<v Speaker 1>Pursuing a real writing career terrified her, but she dreamed

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<v Speaker 1>of a master's degree in fiction writing, so she sent

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<v Speaker 1>in a few half hearted applications.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I sent them something that I might not

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<v Speaker 2>even have reread, and swiftly was rejected. And I'm so

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<v Speaker 2>glad that I was rejected, because it was a wake

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<v Speaker 2>up call that if you want this, you have to try.

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<v Speaker 1>She spent the next year honing her craft as best

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<v Speaker 1>she could.

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<v Speaker 2>I paid off. I got into several different programs and

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<v Speaker 2>ultimately ended up at the University of Virginia.

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<v Speaker 1>She packed up her life and headed to Charlottesville. And

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<v Speaker 1>she made a promise to herself, the same one she'd

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<v Speaker 1>made before boarding school.

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<v Speaker 2>You're going to get to grad school and you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to become the social person that you know you want

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<v Speaker 2>to be. You're going to change your life.

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<v Speaker 1>From her first day in the program, that vision felt

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<v Speaker 1>within reach.

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<v Speaker 2>The program had its very first meeting, all of the

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<v Speaker 2>second years in the program were there, and all of

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<v Speaker 2>the new first years were there. I will always remember

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<v Speaker 2>the first time I saw Trish. She was captivating.

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<v Speaker 1>Trish was a second year in the program.

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<v Speaker 2>She had on a great outfit, red lipstick, I think

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<v Speaker 2>she had on a pair of yellow belly flats. Her

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<v Speaker 2>hair looked amazing. She just was cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Trish was everything Hannah was not, and Hannah wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>make a good first impression.

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<v Speaker 2>Back then, I was being plagued with situational roseatia, which

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<v Speaker 2>I've had all my life. If you made eye contact

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<v Speaker 2>with me, I either cried or blushed. And it's not

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<v Speaker 2>just blushing, you know. I think sometimes people hear the

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<v Speaker 2>word blush and they think of like these two little

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<v Speaker 2>cherries on either side of your cheeks. It's like a

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<v Speaker 2>rash that crawls up my neck and makes my cheeks blatchy.

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<v Speaker 1>So when she introduced herself to the group, she'd turned

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<v Speaker 1>bright red, and Trish noticed.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm still bright red, and she came over and she

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<v Speaker 2>put her hand on my arm, and she said something like,

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<v Speaker 2>it's really sweet how you blush when you're nervous. It

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<v Speaker 2>makes you seem authentic. That was pretty excited that she'd

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<v Speaker 2>noticed me. She made me feel seen and we became

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<v Speaker 2>friends after that.

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<v Speaker 1>That day was a new beginning for Hannah. She was

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<v Speaker 1>starting to have this social life she'd always wanted.

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<v Speaker 2>People from the program would call to invite me out,

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<v Speaker 2>and they'd come back to my house for house parties,

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<v Speaker 2>and meanwhile, we're all just reading and writing and going

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<v Speaker 2>to coffee shops. It was the fantasy that I'd imagined

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<v Speaker 2>for myself.

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<v Speaker 1>And at all these events, Hannah would watch Trish command

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<v Speaker 1>the room.

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<v Speaker 2>Trish seemed so comfortable in her skin. She seemed comfortable

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<v Speaker 2>being pretty. She seemed comfortable being perceived as somebody who

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to look pretty. Meanwhile, I am all day long,

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<v Speaker 2>non stop, thinking about my body. During this time, I

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<v Speaker 2>was so embarrassed of having anyone think that I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to be pretty or sexy or feminine, even though that

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<v Speaker 2>is desperately what I wanted.

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<v Speaker 1>Trish started calling Hannah to hang out, and her confidence

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<v Speaker 1>began to rub off on Hannah. For so long, Hannah

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<v Speaker 1>had been trying to make herself small emotionally and physically.

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<v Speaker 1>For instance, she would only wear sports bras.

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<v Speaker 2>I was eliminating curves, but I was also eliminating the

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<v Speaker 2>embarrassment of being perceived to somebody who wanted to be sexy.

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<v Speaker 1>But Trisha inspired Hannah to make a change.

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<v Speaker 2>For the first time ever. I stopped wearing jogbras, and

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<v Speaker 2>then I started wearing skirts with her encouragement, and I

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<v Speaker 2>started showing off my body. I'm coming out of my shell,

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<v Speaker 2>and she's helping me come out of my shell.

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<v Speaker 1>Trish liked to go out. It was something Hannah hadn't

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<v Speaker 1>really done before, but pretty quickly she realized she liked

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<v Speaker 1>it too.

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<v Speaker 2>When Trish would call me, it was meet me at

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<v Speaker 2>this bar. She drank beers, she drank shots, and so

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<v Speaker 2>I started drinking beers and I started drinking shots, and

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<v Speaker 2>I noticed that it was a lot easier to be

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<v Speaker 2>at bars and easier to talk to tawnies and strangers,

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<v Speaker 2>and I followed her lead.

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<v Speaker 1>Over time, Hannah began distancing herself from the other first years,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was spending more and more nights with Trish.

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<v Speaker 2>I felt like, here, at last, is a friend who's school,

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<v Speaker 2>who I can talk to and go out with. Here's

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<v Speaker 2>my first female adult friend. Her friendship when I was

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<v Speaker 2>feeling so vulnerable was transformative.

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<v Speaker 1>Trish was Hannah's first real friend, and their bond only

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<v Speaker 1>grew stronger. During Hannah's second year in grad school.

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<v Speaker 2>We were brought closer by the fact that my stepfather,

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<v Speaker 2>who had adopted me, was sick my entire second year.

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<v Speaker 1>He had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Trish knew what

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<v Speaker 1>Hannah was going through. She had lost her own dad

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of years earlier.

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<v Speaker 2>She understood grief, and she understood loss. And when I

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<v Speaker 2>would become quiet or start crying at a bar, she

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<v Speaker 2>was not judgmental. She knew how to act around me.

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<v Speaker 1>Hannah's other grad school friends just didn't get.

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<v Speaker 2>It, and so I ultimately ended up isolating myself from

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<v Speaker 2>them and sort of glombed onto Trish and the Charlottesville

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<v Speaker 2>music scene.

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<v Speaker 1>Trish was dating a guy named George, a poet in

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<v Speaker 1>the program. The two of them were very plugged into

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<v Speaker 1>the live music scene in town, so they would often

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<v Speaker 1>bring Hannah to shows. That's how Hannah met Patrick. He

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<v Speaker 1>was a musician in a local band.

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<v Speaker 2>Trish and George they loved the band. They love this guy,

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<v Speaker 2>Trish said, one night, you got to meet him. He's

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<v Speaker 2>so great, he's so cute. He had a girlfriend, so

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't think of him as a love interest, but

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<v Speaker 2>I did meet him and I was like, ah, he

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<v Speaker 2>is cute.

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<v Speaker 1>During this period, Hannah was often traveling home to spend

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<v Speaker 1>time with her family and visit her stepdad in hospice.

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<v Speaker 2>Trish knew that I played a lot to scrabble with

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<v Speaker 2>my family, and she knew that Patrick played scrabble. And

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<v Speaker 2>I never would have made the first move to be

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<v Speaker 2>in touch with Patrick because I didn't really know how

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<v Speaker 2>to have male friends at that point in my life.

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<v Speaker 1>But Trisha insisted that the two of them should hang out,

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<v Speaker 1>so she gave Patrick Hannon's number.

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<v Speaker 2>I got a phone call one day from Patrick saying,

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<v Speaker 2>Trish says, you play scrabble. I said, yeah, I play

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<v Speaker 2>scrabble and he said, okay, well I'm on the downtown mall.

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<v Speaker 2>Why don't you bring your scrabble board and let's play.

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<v Speaker 2>And I said, I thought you have a girlfriend, and

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<v Speaker 2>he's like, this isn't a date. I do have a girlfriend.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to play scrabble. And I thought, oh, okay, weird, bizarre,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not doing anything. So I went. We played scrabble

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<v Speaker 2>at a coffee shop and we just started playing scrabble

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<v Speaker 2>all the time, and he became my first male friend.

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<v Speaker 1>Like Trish. Patrick was confident, maybe even a little cocky,

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<v Speaker 1>but they had a real connection.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a really smart guy, and he was an excellent critic,

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<v Speaker 2>and his brain was razor sharp, so we had great

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<v Speaker 2>conversations and he was so much fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Their relationship was platonic. Even after Patrick broke up with

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<v Speaker 1>his girlfriend.

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<v Speaker 2>He just started dating a lot of women, and I thought,

0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 2>this is so wonderful. I've got a male friend who

0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.160
<v Speaker 2>I get the male perspective from he gets the female

0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:36.040
<v Speaker 2>perspective from me.

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.960
<v Speaker 1>But their dynamics started to shift after Patrick had a

0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.640
<v Speaker 1>major surgery. It meant he needed to spend a lot

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.040
<v Speaker 1>of time resting at home.

0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:50.800
<v Speaker 2>His recovery corresponded with the beginning of the grieving process

0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 2>because my stepfather died, and we started spending just a

0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:57.520
<v Speaker 2>ton of time together.

0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 1>Hannah would even bring Patrick long to check on her mom,

0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:03.800
<v Speaker 1>who was now living outside of Charlottesville.

0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.240
<v Speaker 2>I took Patrick out to my mom's farmhouse one day

0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:10.920
<v Speaker 2>and the three of us played scrabble, and it was

0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.320
<v Speaker 2>like the first time I saw my mom laugh. And

0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.720
<v Speaker 2>the two of them loved each other. They got along

0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.560
<v Speaker 2>so well, and it got to the point where my

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 2>mom would call Patrick when she'd come into town and say,

0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to the grocery store, and Patrick would go

0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.560
<v Speaker 2>to the grocery store with her. He would take her

0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.200
<v Speaker 2>to bars. I mean, he was helping her find small

0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:34.160
<v Speaker 2>amounts of joy.

0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.040
<v Speaker 1>She started to see a different side of him as

0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.200
<v Speaker 1>they grew closer. They started going out with Trish and George.

0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 2>The four of us had become this kind of Charlottesville unit.

0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.280
<v Speaker 2>I would see Patrick and we'd play scrabble, and then

0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.720
<v Speaker 2>we'd go to a bar and meet up with Trician George.

0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 1>The four of them were always out together, talking to

0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.520
<v Speaker 1>strangers and laughing until the bars closed down.

0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 2>You feel young and invincible, and this is where stories

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 2>are happening. You're interacting with people, you're overhearing strange bits

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:14.480
<v Speaker 2>of dialogue.

0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 1>She was finally living life, and she was channeling these

0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.200
<v Speaker 1>experiences into her writing.

0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.640
<v Speaker 2>I had so many ideas, and I was still getting

0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.880
<v Speaker 2>all of my writing done, and because I was in

0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.800
<v Speaker 2>my twenties and made of elastic, I'd wake up the

0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.600
<v Speaker 2>next morning at seven and just start writing.

0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 1>She was a good writer. She regularly submitted to literary magazines,

0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.000
<v Speaker 1>and she was getting published.

0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.120
<v Speaker 2>It felt like this fantasy that I had was within

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.000
<v Speaker 2>my reach. As long as I keep trying. As long

0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.520
<v Speaker 2>as I keep trying, I keep writing, there's a possibility

0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.920
<v Speaker 2>that this could be my life.

0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.640
<v Speaker 1>And Patrick actually started to write short stories of his own.

0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 1>He wasn't in school or in their writing program, but.

0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Hanging out with Trish and me, fiction writers, hanging out

0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.080
<v Speaker 2>with George, a poet, he did start writing stories.

0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.359
<v Speaker 1>The two of them would often spend scrabble games talking

0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:16.359
<v Speaker 1>about books and story ideas. Hannah also trusted Patrick to

0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.040
<v Speaker 1>read her works in progress.

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.919
<v Speaker 2>He would get wistful sometimes and say, I don't know

0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.960
<v Speaker 2>how you're like how you are. You're just so cool

0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.280
<v Speaker 2>and you're such a good writer, and nothing seems to

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.960
<v Speaker 2>bother you, And of course inside I am nothing but

0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:33.399
<v Speaker 2>roiling turmoil.

0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.720
<v Speaker 1>With these kinds of comments, Hannah started to wonder was

0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:39.760
<v Speaker 1>Patrick into her.

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.160
<v Speaker 2>It felt good to be seen, and it felt good

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.919
<v Speaker 2>to be perceived as attractive, and it felt good to

0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:49.840
<v Speaker 2>have this attractive man perceive me as attractive, and before

0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.560
<v Speaker 2>I knew it, I was crushing pretty hard on him.

0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.400
<v Speaker 1>She wasn't going to make the move. She knew Patrick

0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.160
<v Speaker 1>had other women in his life, and it was hard

0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.040
<v Speaker 1>to tell for sure if the feelings were mutual. And

0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:03.120
<v Speaker 1>then it was.

0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.399
<v Speaker 2>One of those nights that was not uncommon for the

0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.800
<v Speaker 2>four of us, where we had shut the bars down.

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.879
<v Speaker 2>We went back to his house. You know, he'd kind

0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.600
<v Speaker 2>of been doing that thing where he was touching my

0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.520
<v Speaker 2>elbow with his elbow and making eye contact a little

0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.680
<v Speaker 2>too long. He's making some inside joke references about things

0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.879
<v Speaker 2>that we'd been talking about during scrabble, and it's just

0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:30.520
<v Speaker 2>incredible tension that is mounting. Then at a certain point,

0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:35.560
<v Speaker 2>probably like four in the morning, George and Trish went

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.000
<v Speaker 2>back to their apartment and I was going to call

0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:40.440
<v Speaker 2>a cab, but.

0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 1>She didn't call a cab. They kissed, and she spent

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:44.400
<v Speaker 1>the night.

0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:49.160
<v Speaker 2>We went from being best friends to one night makeout

0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:53.840
<v Speaker 2>to basically living with one another. There were so many

0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.600
<v Speaker 2>mornings when I would wake up and I would look

0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.000
<v Speaker 2>over and I'd see that it was Patrick in bed,

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.880
<v Speaker 2>and I would think, I am so lucky. I get

0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:03.680
<v Speaker 2>to do this for the rest of my life. I

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:06.480
<v Speaker 2>actually like the person that I'm waking up with, And

0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:08.920
<v Speaker 2>it was just it was bliss.

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.920
<v Speaker 1>They were in love. Still, much of the time they'd

0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:18.720
<v Speaker 1>spend together was in their group.

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Before it was non stop double dating with Trish and George.

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.920
<v Speaker 1>But eventually the group's lifestyle started to catch up with Hannah.

0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:33.680
<v Speaker 2>Trish and Patrick weren't just drinkers. They were late night drinkers,

0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.679
<v Speaker 2>and so that's what I became too. For a little while.

0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.800
<v Speaker 2>There were a lot of moments where I would reflect

0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:42.760
<v Speaker 2>on what I was doing and how I was behaving,

0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:43.960
<v Speaker 2>and I'd be pretty scared.

0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.960
<v Speaker 1>She didn't like what heavy drinking did to her who

0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.040
<v Speaker 1>it made her become, and she certainly didn't like what

0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:52.680
<v Speaker 1>alcohol did to Trish.

0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.600
<v Speaker 2>She could be pretty aggressive, she could be rude, She

0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:58.440
<v Speaker 2>could piss people off in bars.

0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:01.840
<v Speaker 1>When Trish got like this, it would set Patrick off.

0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.120
<v Speaker 2>He had a bit of a temper too, so their

0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:08.200
<v Speaker 2>tempers could kind of go up against one another.

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Knights would often end in fights, and even when they didn't,

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:14.639
<v Speaker 1>things like this would happen.

0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 2>The four of us were out, Tricia and I were

0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.200
<v Speaker 2>at the bar. George and Patrick were sitting where we

0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.560
<v Speaker 2>could see them, but it was pretty packed, and she

0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.480
<v Speaker 2>was saying, I knew he'd come around. I knew he'd

0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.360
<v Speaker 2>realize he loved you. I knew it. I just knew it.

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:39.119
<v Speaker 1>Trish wasn't being the supportive, encouraging friend Hannah had first met.

0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:44.200
<v Speaker 2>She wanted to just remind me that he hadn't crushed

0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:46.119
<v Speaker 2>on me as hard as I'd crushed on him at

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:49.360
<v Speaker 2>the beginning, and she always loved to point out that

0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:50.919
<v Speaker 2>she had been friends with him first.

0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.520
<v Speaker 1>Instead, it felt like she was going out of her

0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:56.520
<v Speaker 1>way to cut Hannah down.

0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:04.679
<v Speaker 2>And this drove me a little bit crazy.

0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.360
<v Speaker 1>When Hannah started dating Patrick, her relationship with her best

0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.600
<v Speaker 1>friend started to shift. It seemed like Trisha always had

0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.439
<v Speaker 1>something to say, and it felt like at times she

0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:30.879
<v Speaker 1>was undercutting Hannah's relationship with Patrick. After Hannah graduated, a

0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:35.280
<v Speaker 1>window opened. Her mom offered Hannah and Patrick the chance

0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.960
<v Speaker 1>to live rent free in her mother's farmhouse outside the city.

0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.679
<v Speaker 2>We needed a new place to live, and we were broke.

0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:47.280
<v Speaker 2>I was waiting tables, he was gigging and teaching music,

0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:51.120
<v Speaker 2>and we were so desperate for money. I was desperate

0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:55.679
<v Speaker 2>for money. So when my mom offered this free place

0:21:55.760 --> 0:22:00.920
<v Speaker 2>to live, it was not lost on me that this

0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:05.440
<v Speaker 2>farmhouse came with a happy coincidence of having some emotional

0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:09.760
<v Speaker 2>distance from Trish and what felt to me like her

0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:15.040
<v Speaker 2>constant oversight. So we had this kind of break, and

0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:17.840
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was magical, just magical.

0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Moving into the farmhouse allowed Hannah to make writing her priority.

0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:27.320
<v Speaker 1>She submitted more stories for publication and even began writing

0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:32.480
<v Speaker 1>her first novel. To her surprise, Patrick wanted to do

0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:32.920
<v Speaker 1>the same.

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 2>He started wanting to focus on writing, and some of

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:40.560
<v Speaker 2>the stories were good, and he got a lot of

0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:42.000
<v Speaker 2>publications all on his own.

0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Other times he leaned on Hannah.

0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.160
<v Speaker 2>It felt like every time I got a story accepted,

0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:52.800
<v Speaker 2>his first response would be, you should tell the editor

0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.879
<v Speaker 2>about this story I just wrote. And every time I

0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:00.200
<v Speaker 2>would email the editor and say, hey, there's this great

0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:02.800
<v Speaker 2>story that I just read by a friend of mine. Right.

0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:06.040
<v Speaker 2>And he got a few publications that way, but.

0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:09.960
<v Speaker 1>His success was limited compared to Hannah's, and he struggled

0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 1>with being farther away from town. It took a toll

0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:13.600
<v Speaker 1>on Patrick.

0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Every day I'd get up, i'd write, and at three

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:21.000
<v Speaker 2>thirty I would drive into Charlottesville and start my shift

0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:25.280
<v Speaker 2>at the steakhouse and he'd stay home, and that's where

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:27.000
<v Speaker 2>he started drinking during the day.

0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Hannah's mom also noticed a change in Patrick. She once

0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:34.399
<v Speaker 1>called Hannah during her workshift and.

0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:39.639
<v Speaker 2>She said, I saw Patrick this morning. He was wearing

0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:42.960
<v Speaker 2>a robe, and I said, well, it was morning, mom,

0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:46.359
<v Speaker 2>and she said yes, And I saw him again just

0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:50.560
<v Speaker 2>now and he's still wearing a robe, and it's five

0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:54.280
<v Speaker 2>o'clock in the afternoon. It was a moment when I

0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:58.480
<v Speaker 2>realized she could see what I could see that troubled me.

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.679
<v Speaker 1>Life in the farmhouse wasn't working for Patrick, Hannah was worried.

0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:08.639
<v Speaker 1>She knew they needed a change. That's when her book sold.

0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:12.760
<v Speaker 2>When I got that book deal, it was all of

0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:17.480
<v Speaker 2>those dreams, everything I'd wanted for so long.

0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:21.720
<v Speaker 1>And the good news didn't stop there. On top of

0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:24.119
<v Speaker 1>the sale of her book, Hannah was offered a teaching

0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:28.159
<v Speaker 1>position in Chicago. Plus Patrick was offered a spot in

0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.520
<v Speaker 1>an MFA program in Boston. He could complete it and

0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:35.400
<v Speaker 1>then go meet Hannah in Chicago. They decided it would

0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:37.560
<v Speaker 1>be a great change, a fresh start.

0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:40.160
<v Speaker 2>So we knew that we were going to be leaving Charlottesville,

0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:44.400
<v Speaker 2>and at about the same time, George and Trish decided

0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:45.760
<v Speaker 2>that they were going to move to New York.

0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:49.640
<v Speaker 1>Trish and George were also ready for a new beginning.

0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:53.520
<v Speaker 1>By this point, they were married and Charlottesville was feeling

0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:59.040
<v Speaker 1>small with big changes coming, the group became nostalgic. Trish

0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:02.679
<v Speaker 1>and George were still Hannah and Patrick's close friends, and

0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:05.800
<v Speaker 1>no one knew when they'd all be together again. So

0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:09.000
<v Speaker 1>for their last couple months in Virginia, Hannah and Patrick

0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:12.160
<v Speaker 1>moved back into town to relive the old days as

0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:13.200
<v Speaker 1>a group of four.

0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:16.720
<v Speaker 2>And suddenly it was like the four of us together again.

0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:21.720
<v Speaker 2>But I think what I told myself was, we all

0:25:21.760 --> 0:25:25.119
<v Speaker 2>are doing this because it's a last hurrah, and we

0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:28.040
<v Speaker 2>know that things are about to change. We're moving to

0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:31.360
<v Speaker 2>Chicago and they're moving to New York, and therefore it's

0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:35.400
<v Speaker 2>a last hurrah.

0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:39.359
<v Speaker 1>Right away, they fell back into their old patterns. Hannah

0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:43.159
<v Speaker 1>always ended the night feeling hurt or embarrassed, but whenever

0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:45.720
<v Speaker 1>she asked Patrick if they could cut back on time with.

0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Tritian George, he would say, they're part of my past,

0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:51.480
<v Speaker 2>They're part of who I am. I don't know how

0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:54.360
<v Speaker 2>to have a social life without them.

0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:58.239
<v Speaker 1>Patrick was in a fragile place, and Hannah knew that

0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:01.240
<v Speaker 1>Trician George made him feel like his old self, so

0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:04.320
<v Speaker 1>instead of demanding that they cut off their friends, she

0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:07.280
<v Speaker 1>went along with it, at least for the time being.

0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I will just deal with it. I've always dealt with

0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 2>the things that are uncomfortable. I can handle it. I

0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:13.760
<v Speaker 2>can handle it. It'll be fine.

0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:16.720
<v Speaker 1>It was clear to Hannah that she'd outgrown the group.

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:20.639
<v Speaker 1>It was a challenging couple of months, but then it

0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:23.359
<v Speaker 1>finally came time for Hannah and Patrick to move on.

0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:28.160
<v Speaker 1>He spent a year in Boston and then we.

0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:32.439
<v Speaker 2>Moved to Chicago, and I wrote another book.

0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:37.160
<v Speaker 1>Through this big transition, Patrick was there for Hannah.

0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:41.080
<v Speaker 2>He made me feel desirable. He made me feel intelligent,

0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:44.800
<v Speaker 2>and he made me feel like it was so obvious

0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:46.920
<v Speaker 2>that I would be ambitious, and it was so obvious

0:26:46.960 --> 0:26:48.480
<v Speaker 2>that I was going to be successful.

0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 1>He was her champion. But when it came to his

0:26:53.000 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 1>own career, he felt discouraged. He was writing his first book.

0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Unlike Hannah, he had a difficult time getting published. So

0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:05.320
<v Speaker 1>once again his mental health took a turn for the worse.

0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:12.480
<v Speaker 2>He really was struggling with giving up who he'd been

0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:16.240
<v Speaker 2>in Charlottesville, which was a big fish in a small pond.

0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:21.280
<v Speaker 2>His band was the popular band at the time when

0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:24.880
<v Speaker 2>he was living in Charlottesville, so he'd gone from kind

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:30.600
<v Speaker 2>of like Golden God in Charlottesville to a dude struggling

0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:34.080
<v Speaker 2>to find work and writing his first novel in Chicago,

0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:38.680
<v Speaker 2>living with a novelist who's got a full time job.

0:27:39.560 --> 0:27:42.720
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't an easy time for Hannah either. Her second

0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:45.920
<v Speaker 1>book wasn't finding a publisher as quickly as her first.

0:27:46.600 --> 0:27:50.479
<v Speaker 2>And then my agent was shopping that second book and

0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:55.440
<v Speaker 2>it was getting rejected. And that's when Patrick proposed.

0:27:56.280 --> 0:28:00.600
<v Speaker 1>She said, yes, Finally they had some thing to look

0:28:00.640 --> 0:28:03.639
<v Speaker 1>forward to. So they started planning the wedding.

0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:08.399
<v Speaker 2>We wanted it to be small, intimate, Charlottesville based. It

0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:09.720
<v Speaker 2>was a beautiful wedding.

0:28:10.400 --> 0:28:13.600
<v Speaker 1>Of course, Tritian George were there. Even though those last

0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:17.000
<v Speaker 1>couple months together were rocky for Hannah, they remained the

0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:18.719
<v Speaker 1>couple's closest friends.

0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:21.920
<v Speaker 2>They were the origin story, That's how I met him.

0:28:21.960 --> 0:28:27.440
<v Speaker 2>So they were one of three couples who were there

0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:29.840
<v Speaker 2>that were not somehow related to us.

0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:33.160
<v Speaker 1>The day was everything Hannah hoped it would be.

0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:37.560
<v Speaker 2>We did our own vowels, We wrote them together, and

0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:39.440
<v Speaker 2>we put on like it was like a scene that

0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:44.840
<v Speaker 2>we did. He cried. I felt so happy. I felt

0:28:44.840 --> 0:28:47.560
<v Speaker 2>so happy getting married to him.

0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:52.280
<v Speaker 1>And then and then her book did find a publisher.

0:28:53.360 --> 0:28:57.200
<v Speaker 1>And she sold a third book right after that. She

0:28:57.360 --> 0:29:01.560
<v Speaker 1>was elated, but Patrick wasn't.

0:29:01.920 --> 0:29:05.360
<v Speaker 2>That third book deal I think really really hurt him.

0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:09.040
<v Speaker 2>I think my shadow just got bigger for him and

0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:10.480
<v Speaker 2>he started feeling smaller.

0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:13.720
<v Speaker 1>He turned to Tritian George for support.

0:29:14.520 --> 0:29:17.360
<v Speaker 2>They always made him feel like the person he had

0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:19.760
<v Speaker 2>been in his twenties. In Charlottesville.

0:29:20.680 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 1>They made more of an effort to see Trician George

0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:25.440
<v Speaker 1>with vacations and visits back and forth.

0:29:26.280 --> 0:29:29.240
<v Speaker 2>It felt like they were our best couple friend again.

0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:32.280
<v Speaker 2>They were always there. They were always there.

0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:35.880
<v Speaker 1>Hannah also helped Patrick secure a teaching job when she

0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:39.080
<v Speaker 1>got a new role at a university in Kentucky. The

0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:43.240
<v Speaker 1>move and the job did little to help Patrick and

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:44.560
<v Speaker 1>his dreams of a book deal.

0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:48.320
<v Speaker 2>He'd gotten close a couple times, but it just didn't

0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:49.680
<v Speaker 2>happen for him.

0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:53.520
<v Speaker 1>By this point, they'd been together for nearly ten years.

0:29:54.000 --> 0:29:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Hannah was accomplishing everything she wanted in life. Meanwhile, her

0:29:58.720 --> 0:30:01.960
<v Speaker 1>husband was miserable and she couldn't help but feel that

0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:05.880
<v Speaker 1>he resented her for her success. He was lost and

0:30:06.000 --> 0:30:09.680
<v Speaker 1>grasping for any sense of purpose. She didn't know how

0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:16.959
<v Speaker 1>to help him. Finally, Patrick was given an opportunity. The

0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:20.280
<v Speaker 1>second summer after they moved to Kentucky, he was offered

0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:22.160
<v Speaker 1>two prestigious writing residencies.

0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:26.479
<v Speaker 2>One was in France and one was at Yadoe, and

0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:32.040
<v Speaker 2>there was a two week down period between the residencies.

0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:35.680
<v Speaker 1>It would mean a lot of time apart, but Hannah

0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:41.240
<v Speaker 1>thought this was good for Patrick and for their relationship. Besides,

0:30:41.880 --> 0:30:45.040
<v Speaker 1>she'd be traveling a lot that summer promoting her third book.

0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:46.960
<v Speaker 1>She told Patrick to go.

0:30:48.120 --> 0:30:51.600
<v Speaker 2>The idea was by the end of July, we would

0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:55.000
<v Speaker 2>be back in Kentucky together, he would get therapy, and

0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:56.240
<v Speaker 2>we would figure things.

0:30:56.000 --> 0:30:59.560
<v Speaker 1>Out between France and his next residency in the States.

0:30:59.680 --> 0:31:02.200
<v Speaker 1>Patrick he had a week off and he spent it

0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:04.280
<v Speaker 1>in New York visiting old friends.

0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:07.880
<v Speaker 2>He decided to go to New York City and stay

0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:11.680
<v Speaker 2>with our very good friend Hugh. And the idea was

0:31:12.200 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 2>he would go back and forth between Hughes place and

0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Trisias and George Place so that he wasn't a burden,

0:31:18.240 --> 0:31:20.719
<v Speaker 2>and then he goes to Yado and he keeps writing.

0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:26.760
<v Speaker 1>And that's what happened, or so Hannah was told. The

0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:30.240
<v Speaker 1>week after Patrick went to a second residency, Hannah needed

0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 1>to be in New York for her book launch. She

0:31:32.720 --> 0:31:35.240
<v Speaker 1>was going to crash with their friend Hugh, just like

0:31:35.320 --> 0:31:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Patrick had the week before. She got in a day early,

0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:41.960
<v Speaker 1>and the night before her book launch, she and Hugh

0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:46.080
<v Speaker 1>stayed a bla talking randomly. They got on the topic

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:47.320
<v Speaker 1>of jealousy.

0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:51.040
<v Speaker 2>And I said something like, oh, I'm not a suspicious person,

0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:57.080
<v Speaker 2>and he said, maybe you should be more suspicious. And

0:31:57.160 --> 0:32:01.040
<v Speaker 2>I said, that's a really interesting thing to say, and

0:32:01.160 --> 0:32:04.320
<v Speaker 2>he said, you should ask me questions.

0:32:05.080 --> 0:32:07.880
<v Speaker 1>She didn't know where this was coming from, but Hugh

0:32:07.960 --> 0:32:11.360
<v Speaker 1>seemed serious, like he had something he needed to say,

0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:14.320
<v Speaker 1>like he was trying to tell her something.

0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:21.000
<v Speaker 2>And I said, is this about Patrick? And he said yes.

0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:25.920
<v Speaker 2>And I said, did something happen when Patrick was in

0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:31.040
<v Speaker 2>New York last week without me? And he said yes.

0:32:32.800 --> 0:32:36.480
<v Speaker 2>At this point, my heart has just like dropped and

0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:38.480
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I'm in a vomit And I said,

0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:44.000
<v Speaker 2>did Patrick have sex with someone? And he said yes.

0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:48.200
<v Speaker 1>She knew the question she really wanted to ask. She

0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:50.120
<v Speaker 1>was just afraid of Hugh's answer.

0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:55.480
<v Speaker 2>But finally I said, did he have sex with Trish?

0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:57.280
<v Speaker 2>And Hugh said.

0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:03.160
<v Speaker 1>Yes. On the next episode of Betrayal.

0:33:04.040 --> 0:33:07.840
<v Speaker 2>My agent sent me an email and the subject was

0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:12.360
<v Speaker 2>have you seen this? And I opened it and I

0:33:12.480 --> 0:33:16.200
<v Speaker 2>read it, and I read it again and I wasn't

0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:19.600
<v Speaker 2>able to really make sense of what I was reading.

0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:26.880
<v Speaker 1>If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team,

0:33:27.040 --> 0:33:30.960
<v Speaker 1>email us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal

0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Pod at gmail dot com, and be sure to follow

0:33:34.960 --> 0:33:39.640
<v Speaker 1>us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. We're grateful for your support.

0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:42.479
<v Speaker 1>One way to show support is by subscribing to our

0:33:42.480 --> 0:33:45.200
<v Speaker 1>show on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and

0:33:45.200 --> 0:33:48.640
<v Speaker 1>review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A

0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:52.280
<v Speaker 1>big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is

0:33:52.320 --> 0:33:55.240
<v Speaker 1>a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment

0:33:55.240 --> 0:33:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive

0:33:59.000 --> 0:34:02.640
<v Speaker 1>produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced

0:34:02.640 --> 0:34:07.080
<v Speaker 1>by me Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and produced

0:34:07.080 --> 0:34:10.600
<v Speaker 1>by Caitlin Golden and Monique Leboard, with additional production by

0:34:10.640 --> 0:34:15.200
<v Speaker 1>Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristin Mercury and Caitlyn Golden.

0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio

0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:23.040
<v Speaker 1>editing and mixing by Matt del Vecchio, additional editing support

0:34:23.080 --> 0:34:28.080
<v Speaker 1>from Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains. Music

0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:32.560
<v Speaker 1>library provided by mybe Music and For more podcasts from iHeart,

0:34:32.719 --> 0:34:36.239
<v Speaker 1>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:38.440
<v Speaker 1>your podcasts