1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome 2 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: to work in progress friends. Today, I'm going to practice 3 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: what I preach as I am on my own ever 4 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: evolving path to being able to hold more dialectics simultaneously, 5 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: more things to be true at the same time, even 6 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: when they feel oppositional. It's no secret for my listeners 7 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: that I really believe that creating a world for all 8 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: of us is the most important thing we can do 9 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: in our lifetime. And I get pretty active about the 10 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: systems and organizations that I think want to take us backwards, 11 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: and in trying to figure out how we build a bigger, 12 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: broader coalition for good and how we welcome people who 13 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: want to leave circles of harm and show up for 14 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: circles of care. I have really been working on figuring 15 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: out how to do that in my own life and 16 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: through someone that I really cherish and love. In the 17 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: Movement for Justice. I met somebody that a few years 18 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: ago I probably wouldn't have hung out with for a conversation. 19 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: I was introduced to a young woman named Carter Brown. 20 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: Carter comes from deep evangelical maga world. She is in 21 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: her own world, sorry for being but was a Donald 22 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: Trump voter. She really came from an environment that told 23 00:01:55,760 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: her that this was a political path that overlapped with righteousness, 24 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: And in recent years she's begun deconstructing. I have a 25 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: best friend Jed who is a deconstructed evangelical, my friend 26 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: Monty Mader, who you all see me share a lot 27 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: as an incredible woman leading in that space. And Carter 28 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: is newer to it, and rather than showing up on 29 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: the internet in a few years to talk about how 30 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: she deconstructed, She's choosing to do it in real time online. 31 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: And that's not easy. It's not easy to learn in public. 32 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: It's not easy to admit the ways that you have 33 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: fallen short of your own ideals. It is not easy 34 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: to process shame with millions of people watching, and to 35 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: own that you deserve to feel it. I'm pretty impressed 36 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: with a lot of what she's willing to share and 37 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the ways in which she is the 38 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: first person to say she's not going to do it 39 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: all right. I wanted to have a conversation with her 40 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: today because I'm really curious about meeting people in the 41 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: middle of this exit from harm, rather than years in 42 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: when they've got it figured out and they really feel 43 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: like they know what they're doing. And I really feel 44 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: like I know what I'm getting. I'm a big believer 45 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: in building bigger tables, and I'm really working to practice 46 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: how to do that. And yeah, this was a doozy 47 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: in a really good way. Let's dive in with Carter. Hey, Carter, 48 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: how are you? I'm god, how are you? I'm good? 49 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming today. 50 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me. 51 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think a grounding point for me is I 52 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: have found myself very luckily in community with so many 53 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: amazing people, such a diverse community of you know, belief, upbringing, geography, faith, gender, race, 54 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: all the things. And one of the things I've I've 55 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: come to terms with in the twenty years i've been 56 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: trying to support positive advocacy is that part of the 57 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: reason I've been in the fight for so long is 58 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: because of my privilege. And not just the you know, 59 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: obvious privilege that you know, us as white women experience 60 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: in the world, but I had the privilege of geography 61 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: and exposure as a kid. You know, I grew up 62 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighties LA with a dad who's an immigrant 63 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: and an artist and a mom who's a first generation American, 64 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: and my community was very diverse and very queer and 65 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: multi faith and all these things that helped me see 66 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: everyone as my neighbor. And one of the things I 67 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: think is really powerful about the time we're in now 68 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: is really understanding that not everybody has that privilege. And 69 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be really frank with you, Like I've been 70 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: heads down in the fight in the MAGA world for 71 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: a long time, and I've had to check my own 72 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: ego and realize when people say this is new information 73 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: to me, and my instinct is to be like, how 74 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: could this be new information? Like we've been sharing it 75 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: all the time and it's everywhere and what do you mean? 76 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: And like I had to take a breath, and I 77 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: think you'll appreciate this. The person who called me out 78 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: on my frustration was Vice President Harris, and she was like, Sophia, 79 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: you have to understand there's people working with different sets 80 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: of information. And I was like, information is information, Like 81 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: what do you And she was like, you're not listening 82 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: to me. Like I've seen inside the machine. There are 83 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: people who live in your neighborhood who literally have an 84 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: entirely different set of information than you do. They have 85 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: not seen a thing, not only a thing that you've posted, 86 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: they haven't seen the source you posted from. Ever, So 87 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: are we going to be pissed about it? Or are 88 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: we going to do the work to welcome people who 89 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: start looking for information outside their silos? And I was like, oh, 90 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: like getting called out by one of the most eloquent, amazing, 91 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: like prepared, storied like black women in American history, I 92 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: was like, yes, ma'am, absolutely, one hundred percent I can 93 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: do that. And it really made me think about how, 94 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't expect her to do it right, 95 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: Like I imagine you've been confronted with the reality that 96 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: you can't just expect black women to welcome you in 97 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: right now. But when the black women in my life 98 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: are like, hey, you and all the white ladies need 99 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: to go collect the other white ladies, I'm like, okay, 100 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: one hundred percent, Like that's my job. I'm on it. 101 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: And so as a I will say, I know it 102 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: hasn't been easy because the Internet is the Internet. But 103 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: as a white lady who has chosen to begin collecting 104 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: herself and is showing up to be vulnerable about why 105 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: that's hard, Why it's embarrassing what the cost is in 106 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: faith and family and all the other things. Like, I'm 107 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: glad we can have a conversation, and I appreciate you 108 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: being willing to do that in a space with someone 109 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: that years ago you probably would have identified as like 110 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: a radical leftist, crazy person, and that you're like, actually, 111 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: I'd like us to learn from each other. So it's 112 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: a very long winded grounding for the audience and also 113 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: welcome for you. 114 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 115 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 3: No, I was actually listening to that episode right before 116 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 3: this and she touched on what you just mentioned, and 117 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 3: that was something I wanted to bring up. 118 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: So I'm glad that you Oh. 119 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: I'm so glad. 120 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. 121 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: I was like when she said it during the interview 122 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: where we were on stage, I was like, yeah, yeah, 123 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: I've been backstage. I was like, but hold on, and 124 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: she was like, you're not listening, Like you're not listening 125 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: to the point I'm making. And I respect that so 126 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: much from her. And one of the things I think 127 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: is so deeply cool is that you're trying to meet 128 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: people where they are and you know, as you've said, 129 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 1: apologize for behaviors that have added to harm and also 130 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: figure out who wants to sit with you and who 131 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: might not yet. And you know, my wanting to ask 132 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: you questions was only bolstered by the fact that I 133 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: found out you've connected with and are forging work with 134 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: my dear friend Patrise Colors, who's one of the incredible 135 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: black women activists who's taught me the most in the 136 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: gazillion years. It feels like we've been friends, And so 137 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: I guess what I want to ask you first is 138 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: how you are, because I get why. There's plenty of 139 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: people that react with anger to what you're talking about, 140 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: and I think the only way we move forward is 141 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: to say you might be late, but at least you're here. 142 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: And I know, as one person who is used to 143 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: being a human in your little sphere, when your sphere 144 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: becomes the whole Internet, it can be pretty overwhelming. So 145 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: how are you? How are you taking care of yourself 146 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: while attempting to be accountable and navigate all of this? 147 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: Like have you just made the decision to keep showing 148 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: up no matter how hard it feels. 149 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 3: The best way I can describe my deconstruction is bittersweet liberation. 150 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: It is. 151 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 3: Necessary and needed, and I'm happy that it's happened. 152 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: But I. 153 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 3: Literally feel like I was living in the Truman Show. 154 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 3: And I was actually talking to my therapist about this 155 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 3: before this, which, ironically enough, I scheduled that perfectly to 156 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 3: have therapy right before this. 157 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so glad. 158 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, And then I was able to listen to the 159 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 3: Kamala episode right before too, so that was a great 160 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 3: episode to segue into this. And I don't know how 161 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 3: I'm okay with all this, but I am and everything 162 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 3: that I'm doing feels one hundred percent intuition lead. And 163 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 3: I began this journey about two years ago. Two years ago, 164 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 3: I decided I wanted to work on my ego and 165 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 3: mindset and overcome my negative self talk and my anxiety 166 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 3: because I realized I was like, I don't know how 167 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: else to say this thought sounding crazy, hearing things that 168 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 3: were true, that were real, that would happen. It could 169 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 3: be as big as when I would be pregnant and 170 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 3: that happened with both of my children, or it would 171 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 3: be as innocuous as don't forget to grab that jacket outside, 172 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 3: and I'd be like, I'm in the middle of playing 173 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 3: with my kids, Why do I need to go and 174 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 3: grab that jacket right now, and then we go inside, 175 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 3: I'd forget the jacket and then to an unexpectedly rain, 176 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 3: and I'm like, should have listened to that thought, that's weird, 177 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 3: And so I wanted to start listening to that voice 178 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 3: in my head more and eliminating the negative self talk. 179 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 3: And so when I did that two years ago, I 180 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 3: shed this care of what other people thought of me 181 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 3: in the process of that, and I also realized that 182 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 3: I love everybody. 183 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 2: And it was this. 184 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 3: Hard realization of being like, okay, whoa, whoa these feelings 185 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 3: that I used to feel towards someone that I believe 186 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 3: we're sinning, because that's this is where it comes down to. 187 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 3: Like I was grew up evangelical Christian, and I just 188 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 3: thought everyone that was left was being deceived by Satan, 189 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 3: being tempted by Satan, sold their sould to Satan, and 190 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 3: just wanted to live of the world like that is 191 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 3: my understanding. Then some things happened in my life where 192 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 3: I started to really question my religion and because like 193 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 3: it was like this juxtaposition of like, Okay, I'm voting 194 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 3: against the rights of people that I'm now like loving 195 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 3: and caring about, but like the people around me and 196 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 3: my community are saying something completely different and acting completely different, 197 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 3: but they're not acting like the Jesus I'm reading about 198 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 3: in the Bible. 199 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 2: It was just hard. 200 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 3: Battling of belief systems that I was having over the 201 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 3: last two years. 202 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: Right, and. 203 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 3: It just again can I can only describe it as 204 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 3: picking up breadcrumbs to get me to where I'm at, 205 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 3: because I just continue picked up the breadcrumbs. 206 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: I debunked rapture culture, I debunked. 207 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 3: Hell and this idea that I could go to be 208 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 3: somewhere eternally separated from God. And when I did that, 209 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 3: I realized, I think I align with. 210 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: The left right. 211 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 3: And it was such a wild feeling. And that's what 212 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 3: I That was when I first started sharing on TikTok 213 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 3: because I wasn't comfortable with Instagram because most of my 214 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 3: audience there was Maga supportering and people I knew in 215 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 3: real life, and TikTok just felt like I don't know 216 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 3: a soul there. I'm starting at zero, and that's just 217 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 3: what I started. Really, some other things I started talking about, 218 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 3: but really stored to my deconstruction. It made me realize, 219 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 3: like when you deconstruct, you're not conservative. 220 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 2: You lean way more liberal like right, and. 221 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 3: So it just and I got really depressed through all 222 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 3: of this, like really depressed, and I was dealing with 223 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 3: a lot of other things in life that were happening 224 00:13:58,840 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 3: at once, and. 225 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 2: Something in me said, share about it online. 226 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: Right, and now a word from our sponsors who make 227 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: the show possible. It's really interesting the way you talk 228 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: about it, and in reading through you know, my FYP 229 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: showed you to me, probably somewhere in the algorithm because 230 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: like you connected with Patrice, and then it was like, 231 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: you need to see what this woman's doing. And something 232 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: that really made me go, oh, I definitely want to 233 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: talk to her was hearing you talk about how you've 234 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: been able to figure out you've had that sort of 235 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: aha moment, that the kind of evangelical community you were 236 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: raised in, the dogma of it, the vote with us, 237 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: no matter what your eyes are seeing or your ears 238 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: are hearing. In order to deconstruct that, you basically had 239 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: to leave an abusive relationship. It's easy to get gas 240 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: lit back in. It's easy to hear I only hit 241 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: you because I love you. The domestic abuse framing for 242 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: me was the unlock, especially as I hear you say 243 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: you started to hear that voice, because I know what 244 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: it's like as a woman when you're in an environment 245 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: that is dangerous to you. You basically learn to dissociate. 246 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: And it takes a long time to start hearing your 247 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: inner voice, your wiser, eternal female self, your grandmother's voice, 248 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: your voice, the voice of who you're going to be 249 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: at sixty that is like, girl, what are you doing? 250 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: Or grab a raincoat, dummy? Like how many times have 251 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: I told you this before? Whatever it is? And so 252 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: I want to say that I really appreciate your willingness 253 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: to do this, and I appreciate that you're not shying 254 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: away from what's hard because you've been just as harmed 255 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: by a white, heteronormative patriarchy as I have. And I 256 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: hope that conversations like these between people like us can 257 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: inspire other people. Yeah, hold the totality, hold the good, 258 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: the bad, and the ugly, but like, sit together and 259 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: figure out how we're going to get out of this mess. 260 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: Because the idea that any movement masquerading as a faith 261 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: based one would encourage you to harm yourself or your 262 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: neighbors is the most antithetical to faith of any kind. 263 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: In the world, right, So, like, I really want to 264 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: know for you, I hear you that you started to go, Okay, 265 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: this really doesn't make sense. I see what's happening, and 266 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: then you're telling me it's not happening. But I can 267 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: see happening. Hang on, how do you think you got 268 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: out of the the abuse cycle? And said, like, I 269 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: can't be gas lit by what you say love is 270 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: versus what I see anymore? How did you really start 271 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: to Where was the crack that like started to let 272 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: the light in. I guess. 273 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 3: There's lots of cracks And the first one that came 274 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 3: to mind. 275 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 2: Was spanking. 276 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 3: I was spanked growing up for years of my life, 277 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 3: probably weekly. 278 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 2: Bear butt, and. 279 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 3: I did not want to continue that, and my husband 280 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 3: and I made the decision we were not going to spank. 281 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,479 Speaker 3: He was spanked probably like two or three times growing up. I, however, 282 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 3: it was a main form of discipline for me. 283 00:17:58,480 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: Wow. 284 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 3: And when my dad found out that we did not 285 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 3: want to spank, he was like, oh wait, and he 286 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 3: got out his commentary in his Bible and he was like, 287 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 3: look like we're commanded to And so I was gas 288 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 3: lit into it and we did it. 289 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: Not long and we hated it, and then. 290 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 3: By literally picking up a breadcrumb, I found the study 291 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 3: from Harvard about where it triggers the same part of 292 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 3: the brain as sexual assault, and as a two time 293 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 3: sexual assault survivor, I said, not my God. Yeah, And 294 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 3: I remember calling my husband at work being like, we 295 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 3: don't spank anymore. 296 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was so relieved. 297 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 3: But I remember when the dust settled from all that, 298 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 3: I remember going, I can read the Bible differently than 299 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 3: my dad. And so that was that was the first 300 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 3: first fracture for me. 301 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors, and obviously those 302 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: fractures within an evangelical community, you're met with resistance, even 303 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: when you have the actual teachings of Jesus on your side, 304 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: even when you have science and psychology on your side. 305 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: Like it's interesting where everything kind of meets and you go, oh, 306 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: whether I'm examining Christianity or Judaism or Islam or Eastern traditions, 307 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: or I'm looking at the patterns of nature, like there's 308 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: so much harmony here, there's so much success of any species, 309 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 1: including humans and community care. And then suddenly we're justifying 310 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 1: like violence and tribalism and othering and harm in a 311 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: book that hold on a bunch of men wrote down 312 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: and said was the word of God. But also the 313 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: men were the kings, so they had the most to lose. Like, 314 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: that's the rabbit hole I go down because I grew 315 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: up with parent like my family is Catholics, Jews and atheists. 316 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: Our holiday dinners are wild, and so like growing up 317 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: going to church, going to synagogue and then having the 318 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,719 Speaker 1: whole thing pressure tested all the time from either faith tradition, Like, 319 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: I went down the rabbit hole of a whole bunch 320 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: more and I will never forget learning that. In the 321 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: nineteen forties, whatever the committee is that meets every ten 322 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: years on the Bible, some official group, they're going to 323 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,479 Speaker 1: come for me because I should know this, but whatever, 324 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 1: like admitted that the chapter in Leviticus eighteen twenty two 325 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: that gets used to justify homophobia is a mistranslation and 326 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: that in fact what it said was thou shalt not 327 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: lie with a child. But for all these kings who 328 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: were like expanding their kingdoms by marrying off their daughters 329 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: when they were preteens, they were like, that's not really 330 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: convenient for us, and it's not lost on me that 331 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about this, you and I in a moment 332 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: where these files are coming out, and like, I'm watching 333 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: all the mega people try to justify Trump again. So 334 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: it's like, ah, but to get out of it, right, 335 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: To get out of it when it's your worldview, it's 336 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: your family tradition, it's your community. 337 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 3: If you ask the wrong person, you will be gaslet 338 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 3: back into it. And that's why I didn't talk to 339 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 3: my dad about it, because I knew what he would say, 340 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 3: and I knew I needed to stop outsourcing and trust myself. 341 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: Yes, well, but would you say that that was part 342 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: of your upbringing? Like, as a little girl who grew 343 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: up in this sort of tradition, were you always taught 344 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: to be deferent to your father or your spouse or 345 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: the men in the room for sure? 346 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 2: Submissive? 347 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, And add in the whole idea that I had 348 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 3: undiagnosed learning disabilities growing up. 349 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: I grew up thinking I was stupid. 350 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 3: Legitimately thought I was stupid, and so I just took 351 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 3: this as I don't understand. But the people that love 352 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 3: me are telling me that this is what reality is, 353 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 3: and I'm going to trust. 354 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: That, right, And that's what I think is hard for people. 355 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: Your attempt here to say, like I want to crack 356 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: the glass and take everything that comes with it. I 357 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: know can't be easy, and I do think we are 358 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,719 Speaker 1: at such an inflection point, like I know the algorithms 359 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: don't want to show anybody anything. I know a community 360 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: like yours doesn't want to let views like mine in 361 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: and probably thinks I only. 362 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 2: Know you had a podcast. 363 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: I love it, but by the way, I'm sure it 364 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: probably thinks like I would never have a conversation with 365 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: someone like you, let alone. Do I have friends who 366 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: grew up in the evangelical community what. But it's the 367 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: deconstruction interests me because I've watched one of my closest 368 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: friends do it for fifteen years. And you're beginning this 369 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: path and it's you know, started in twenty twenty four, 370 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: it's twenty twenty six. But if you rewind to pre 371 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: the cracks letting light in for you, like if we 372 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: go back to twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, can you tell 373 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: me what it was like in your world for Trump 374 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: to hit the political scene, Because I'm going to be 375 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: vulnerable here and be like I never thought he could win. 376 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 1: I thought this this fucking guy he he is not 377 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: smarter than a fifth grader, Like, he wouldn't win that 378 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: game show. He's like a reality TV dweeb who puts 379 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: fake gold on everything. Like I didn't take him seriously, 380 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: But what was it light? Like, clearly we weren't seeing 381 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: the same news, So what were you seeing? Were people 382 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: immediately behind him or was it only when the machine 383 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: got going? Like what what was it like? 384 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: Then? So that was a weird time in my life. 385 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 3: Twenty fifteen, I shattered my femur and I was also 386 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 3: addicted to opiate painkillers, and I was bedridden living in 387 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 3: my mom's home, my parents' home, so I can sort 388 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 3: of tell you. So I was a little not one 389 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 3: hundred percent there. However, what I can remember is people 390 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 3: being supportive because they're like, oh, it's a business person, 391 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 3: like we're from. 392 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 2: A different perspective. And I remember my first reaction. 393 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: When he and this is when he announced Pence was 394 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 3: his running mate, and I was like trump Pence trumpets. Mom, 395 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 3: that's like revelation. This is bad, Like this is a 396 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 3: bad sign, and she was like, oh, Carter's stop, and 397 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 3: I alreadys remember being like, well, that's that's weird. 398 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: Like one of the odds you weren't totally wrong, especially 399 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: for Mike Pence. 400 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 2: And so that was my first reaction. 401 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 3: And then so during that time, you know, I'm like 402 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 3: recovering in bed. And then in twenty sixteen, the following Beuary, 403 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 3: I went to rehab. So it was like I didn't 404 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 3: have a lot of like perspective. I was really working 405 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 3: on myself getting through all of that. But I just 406 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 3: remember being like, Okay, everyone around me says that this 407 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 3: is a great option. Okay, and like the grab them 408 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 3: by the pussy statement, let me just skip behind that. 409 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 2: I'm under this impression that anybody can change, God can 410 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: get anybody at any moment. 411 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's always the eras around the whiteboard. Right, 412 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: It's like, well, they did a bad thing, but that's 413 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: washed away now they've repented. 414 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: He probably hasn't even repented though, but. 415 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: Like, well, of course not. 416 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 3: But yeah, yes literally on recording, No, I don't need 417 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 3: to ask for forgiveness. And I remember asking my mom, like, 418 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 3: what do you think about that? She was just like, 419 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 3: it's cognitive dissonance. They don't know how to reconcile it. 420 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: Well, here's my thought, and I'm curious because you come 421 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: from inside this world. My observation leads me to believe 422 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: that because and by the way, this was all a 423 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 1: tactic on his part, clearly, like you and I are 424 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: on the same page about this, that because Trump knew 425 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: that if he could win over the evangelicals, they would 426 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: treat their belief in him like their belief in religion. 427 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: It wouldn't be about a politician anymore. It would be 428 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: about an identity, which, to be clear, is cult mentality. 429 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: But the blind loyalty despite all evidence. I mean, even then, 430 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: I remember thinking, like, why doesn't why doesn't him admitting 431 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: that matter? Why doesn't the tape of him, you know, 432 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: being deposed about sexually assaulting women where he says women 433 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,239 Speaker 1: think rape is sexy, Like, why doesn't that matter? So 434 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: I'm curious how these revelations feel now that you're ready 435 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: to see them and hear them for what they are. 436 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: And also how did the sort of QAnon like he's 437 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: saying things that sexual predators say, but also there's a 438 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: whole movement saying he's going to get the sexual predators, 439 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: Like how did that play out? Being under the influence 440 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: of that sphere at. 441 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 3: That time they were banking on the fact that we 442 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 3: would not know all the things that you knew, Like, 443 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 3: I'm I guess this. I continue to show people that 444 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 3: are close to me, that are helping mentor me, they're like, Wow, 445 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 3: I'm realizing how much you really don't know. 446 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: Different sets of information. It's what Kamala said. 447 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're banking on that you don't know that information, 448 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 3: or that the news source that they watch that will 449 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 3: barely blip that or whatever. 450 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 2: They'll probably not even mentioned that, Like. 451 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: No, Fox News is not talking about that. 452 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 3: Let me say it was like an anonymous a Jane 453 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 3: Doe that came forward and said this about Trump, Like 454 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 3: if there was a headline on Fox News would be 455 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 3: like anonymous woman from three decades ago, you know, says 456 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 3: this or whatever. So they make it seem like it's 457 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 3: so far fetched. 458 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 2: That wouldn't happen. 459 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 3: And I actually had I had lunch with someone who 460 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 3: supports MAGA last week, and I got dogged in the 461 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 3: comments of like why are you still having lunch with 462 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 3: these people? But then also people are like you need 463 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 3: to sit down and have conversations with people. 464 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: I'm like, ah, I don't know who I'm supposed to 465 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 2: listen to. 466 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I was like, you're supporting a pedophile. Can 467 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 3: you imagine? Like what he was like, where is all 468 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 3: this basis coming from? And I'm just like people literally 469 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 3: coming forward saying this themselves, like. 470 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: Imagine over and over. 471 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 3: And I said to this person, I said, imagine the 472 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 3: person that raped me, which this person knew that I 473 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 3: had been raped. What if all of a sudden they 474 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 3: want to start running for office and they come out 475 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 3: of nowhere me who I only told a handful of people. 476 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 3: I didn't make a police report, I didn't journal about it, 477 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 3: you know, twelve years ago. What if I come forward 478 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 3: and I'm I'm like, yeah, that person raped you, would 479 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 3: you say that I'm lying? And they're just like you 480 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 3: can see the wheels turning. Yeah, like kind of goes 481 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 3: over their head. 482 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: Firstly, I think it's really hard to admit you've been duped. 483 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: I think we have to start to build a society 484 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: where we're more allowed to say, hey, I was wrong. 485 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: You know, this person who you had lunch with might 486 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: not know about how long these reports have gone on. 487 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: That person you had lunch with might not know that. 488 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: Trump himself said he bought the Miss USA pageants so 489 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: he could walk in the room and see the teenage 490 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: girls naked, Like, we know that man's a predator. The 491 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: files are horrific. We know they're trying to hide them. 492 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: If you really connect all the dots, I mean, this 493 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: sounds like a conspiracy. But it's not like Pam Bondi 494 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: was involved in giving Epstein his sweetheart deal back in 495 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: Florida and now she's covering this stuff up for her 496 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: boss and they're all fleecing us for all of our 497 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: taxpayers dollars, And it's like crazy. But I think because 498 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: there's such an overwhelming amount of evidence, a lot of 499 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: people on you know, my end of the of the spectrum, 500 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: are like, how don't you know? But I I'm curious 501 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: about certain things that were so big in the news 502 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: for a lot of us, Like what was it like 503 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: on January sixth then to see MAGA supporters like erecting 504 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: you know, nooses and gallows and storming the halls of 505 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: Congress chanting hang Mike Pence? Like was that a moment 506 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: of dissonance in your community or was that even covered 507 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: in your community? 508 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 3: I didn't know any of that, And I'll tell you 509 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 3: my what I know about January six So I was 510 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 3: going to watch the documentary the day that Renee Good 511 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 3: was murdered, Like I realized I need to like compartmentalize 512 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 3: my deconstruction, okay, And so I was like, Okay, this 513 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 3: is a lot happening. I'm gonna put that on the 514 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 3: back burner. So I have not yet watched this. However, 515 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 3: I have deconstructed my thoughts on all this because I've 516 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 3: heard it's going to be a lot. And I'll tell 517 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,479 Speaker 3: you why I had a distorted view of January sixth. 518 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 3: Was one of my good friends was there, wow, And 519 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 3: so we weren't very close while when she was there. 520 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 3: We got closer late, like about a year or so later, 521 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 3: so I didn't hear about things as like rawn fresh 522 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 3: from her. But like when she would tell me about it. 523 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 2: She said, Critter was nothing like the TV, Like she 524 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 2: didn't go to the Capitol. 525 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 3: She was at the where she didn't go to all that, 526 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 3: but like she basically made it seem like it was 527 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 3: not like what the meeting made it seem to be. 528 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 3: And then you know, my algorithms were basically saying like 529 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 3: this was the FED boys, this is the FBI, like 530 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 3: blah blah blah, And I was like okay. 531 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: Well, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors. You 532 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: know you mentioned earlier that you were in the process 533 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: of this, but a big aha moment was the shooting 534 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: of Brene Good and were you how did how did 535 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: you experience that coming through this deconstruction, beginning to discover 536 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: how much you hadn't seen in police interactions, particularly with 537 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: communities of color. Here you are seeing a police interaction 538 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: with a woman that could have been you who has 539 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: kids around the age of your kids, Like, do you 540 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: feel like you were able to really look at that 541 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: incident with open eyes because you were already in this process. 542 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: Yes, thousand percent. 543 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 3: So I first learned about it on a live Like 544 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 3: I was watching a friend of mine on TikTok and. 545 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 2: They were like, oh my gosh, did you hear about this? 546 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 3: And I was like, I immediately closed the live and I 547 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 3: was like, I want to see all this for myself. 548 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 3: I want to see what the right is saying about this. 549 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 3: I want to see about what you know, independent media 550 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 3: is saying about this. I want to form my own 551 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 3: opinion because that is so much what I relied on 552 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 3: previously is I didn't see things as they happened. I 553 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 3: caught the headlines after the fact, and that's what formed 554 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 3: my opinion for me. And so the first thing I 555 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 3: did was just go to the raw video and just 556 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 3: watched it and made my own opinion. It was sickened, disgusted, 557 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 3: and then I started to hear the commentary and then 558 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 3: I went to go see what christinoam then had heard 559 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 3: best conference afterwards, and I remember like screaming at my 560 00:33:51,720 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 3: phone and yeah, it could have been me, but I'm 561 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 3: also sitting here like I almost hated that that was 562 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 3: like the first thing that happened in my awakening because 563 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 3: so many people just accused me of caring about it 564 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 3: because she looked like me, and no, like that was 565 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 3: just the first person who lost their life because of 566 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 3: ice since I woke up and shocked discussed. I was like, 567 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 3: this could have been any of us. And then to 568 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 3: come to find out that it was a white woman, 569 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 3: it just like really like was just like, this is 570 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 3: this is crazy? This is actually crazy because if this 571 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 3: can happen to someone who looks like me, like. 572 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: Can I ask a hard question? Yeah, was the oh 573 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: this is crazy? Was it because some part of you went, Oh, 574 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: everything I've been told not to believe that black and 575 00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: brown people have been saying is clearly true. Like if 576 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 1: this just happened to someone who looks like me, these 577 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: communities saying they do this to us and they will 578 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: come for you, like the call is coming from inside 579 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: the house. Did it really? Did it really? Cement? Like 580 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: that you might have been listening to the wrong voices 581 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: on these law enforcement. 582 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 3: Everything that comes out, I am always I think about 583 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 3: like what I used to think and what I probably. 584 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 2: And it makes me sick to my stomach. 585 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, that I could be just like that, disconnected from humanity. 586 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 2: This is hard. 587 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: How do you work on processing that shame? Because listen, 588 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: I as a person who's been in therapy for a 589 00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: long time, I'm so glad you are now. I'm I'm 590 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: seeing you have a very human experience. I know that 591 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: some of what comes up and like literally breaks your 592 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: heart and makes you want to cry is shame that 593 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: you could participate in a system like this. And I'm 594 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 1: not going to say, oh you have to I'm never 595 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: going to say like, lighten it up. But what I 596 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: am going to say is how are you making sure 597 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: that you are processing through that so that you don't 598 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: give up on doing this because that, I think is 599 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: what makes a lot of people stop deconstructing or changing 600 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: their resignd. Yeah, it is that the shame is so 601 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 1: hard to feel that they turn back off. 602 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 3: Well, I have started to read a book called Unlearning Shame, 603 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 3: and that has helped a lot. I meditate on how 604 00:36:53,920 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 3: I meditate imagining turning my shame and alchemi it into gold. 605 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 3: Like literally, I visualize what I think that that might 606 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 3: look like, and I I just I don't know what 607 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 3: that looks like. Again, I don't know what that actual 608 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 3: process looks like. But then I also don't know what 609 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 3: that gold actually is. But that's just what I'm currently 610 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:24,439 Speaker 3: manifesting for myself is that. And somehow there are days 611 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 3: I'm crying from the moment I wake up to the 612 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 3: moment I fall asleep. But somehow I'm able to sleep 613 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 3: at night somehow, And I know that, like I, I'm 614 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 3: not letting the shame overcome me because it is, it is, 615 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 3: it's deep, but I know that it goes back to 616 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 3: my intuition, Like I just I know I have this 617 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 3: was trusting that I am divinely protected and this no 618 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 3: matter what, And I feel like processing my shame out 619 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 3: loud allows others, like I want to be able to 620 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 3: provide a blueprint for other people. It's like, you will 621 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 3: feel these feelings. It will be real, and like that's 622 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 3: more or less what I'm trying to do online is 623 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 3: so many people are like, turn your phone off, do 624 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 3: this in private. I'm like, have you ever seen someone 625 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:37,439 Speaker 3: deconstruct from maga? That's why I'm doing it. I don't 626 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,760 Speaker 3: think anybody has, And that's why it's like my mission 627 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 3: sounds so silly to say it like that, but like 628 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 3: my mission overcomes the shame. At the end of the day, 629 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 3: when I think about the shame that I feel, I'm 630 00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 3: reminded more that that shame and will be alchemized to 631 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 3: gold somehow, and like that's what keeps me going. I 632 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 3: don't it probably doesn't make much sense, and a lot 633 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 3: of times it doesn't make sense for me. 634 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 2: I don't know. 635 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 3: It's a very weird feeling to feel like your life 636 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,319 Speaker 3: is forever changed and you didn't even know that that's 637 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 3: what you were embarking on when you did this, you know. 638 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 3: But I know that how I feel and where I'm 639 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 3: going through all of this is on purpose. The shame 640 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 3: is necessary, Like I think it's a necessary part of it. 641 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,359 Speaker 3: I don't think I should be bypassing that at all. 642 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: I don't either. I appreciate you saying that. 643 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that. 644 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 3: In my follow up video from all this, I said, 645 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 3: I was like, this is the part of my journey 646 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 3: where I do need to decenter myself that I do 647 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 3: need to not make it about, you know, facing the 648 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:56,439 Speaker 3: accountability that I'm experiencing and what that means, Like, yes, 649 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 3: I can talk to my therapist and my mentors and 650 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 3: put tree send all these people that are welcoming my tears, 651 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 3: but like, it's fucking obvious that this is emotional and 652 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 3: I shouldn't have to make that a part of my 653 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 3: content because it's being lost in translation. Because I don't 654 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 3: want to cause more harm. 655 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 2: And I realized that my tears cause harm. 656 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 3: And I don't want to cause more harm. I feel 657 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 3: like I've already caused so much harm. And so when 658 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 3: the response to that video was you still don't get it, 659 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 3: you know, and maybe I don't to some degree, but 660 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 3: like so many people like have not seen what I've 661 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 3: been doing behind the scenes. I'm not talking about all 662 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 3: the things that I'm doing because I'm not doing this 663 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:44,439 Speaker 3: for a pat on the back. 664 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 2: And so when people are like, well, what are you doing? 665 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 2: What are you doing? 666 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 3: And I'm like, it's hard, it's hard to you can't 667 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 3: like please everyone on the internet lob you know, but like. 668 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 1: No, but listen. At the end of the day, I 669 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: think criticism from people who've been harmed by these systems. 670 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 2: Is valid a lot of percent. 671 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: And I think you being willing to do it and 672 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: not present a five years ago. I did this and 673 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: here's what I've learned, Like it will affect people who 674 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: also need to be doing what you're doing. That will 675 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: dissatisfy lots of people who've been at this for a 676 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: long time. Eighteen years into my advocacy for better journey, 677 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: I might not have wanted to have this conversation. I'm 678 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: dealing with my own shit and deconstructing parts of my 679 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: own ego to ensure I can do this. And I 680 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: also understand the concentric circles of how movements need to 681 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: be built. And very much like in twenty twenty when 682 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,720 Speaker 1: we were protesting in the streets of LA we literally 683 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 1: the riot police would show up and we would put 684 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: all the black activists in the center of the crowd, 685 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: and we would line up five to ten white people 686 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: deep straight up to the riot shields to protect our neighbors. 687 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 1: I don't see this as being different to that. I'm 688 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,839 Speaker 1: going to come to the front and have conversations with 689 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: certain communities so my friends of color can stay in 690 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: the center and don't have to. But if I refuse 691 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 1: to do it, not only am I doing a disservice 692 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: to the future of those people who I want to 693 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: protect on the inside, I'm also not helping people like 694 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,840 Speaker 1: you and people like me find our common ground to 695 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,839 Speaker 1: go build a new, better thing. And then what are 696 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 1: we doing. It's like if we're just having a purity 697 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: test all the time, we're not doing anything but feeding 698 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: the machine that caused this mess in the first place. 699 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 3: And I think that's what me and Patrice are trying 700 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 3: to do, Like latterly, that's what because I mean there 701 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 3: are some days, some weeks where she is checking out 702 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 3: with me daily, Like it is not lost on me 703 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 3: the amount of love and support that she pours into me. 704 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 3: But like that's where we're at right now, is we 705 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 3: want to strategize. We want to figure out if people 706 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 3: from this side and this I come together. 707 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 2: Yes, like what can we do? 708 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 3: And we don't know, but we know that when we 709 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 3: start to bring more people's minds that want the same thing, 710 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,399 Speaker 3: that have the same desire, that feel their soul being 711 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,760 Speaker 3: pulled to this to help, the answers. 712 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 2: Will be there. 713 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:28,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 714 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 3: I don't need to figure that out today, but I 715 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,720 Speaker 3: know that if I continue to keep on making each 716 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 3: step forward, that it will come to fruition the same 717 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,440 Speaker 3: way all of this has. Like if you would have 718 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 3: told me three months ago that I'd be sitting in 719 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 3: front of you, like, I'd be like, you're insane, You're insane, 720 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 3: But here I am, And that's because I trusted and 721 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 3: kept on picking up the bread crumbs like I had 722 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,240 Speaker 3: been the last five years. 723 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: Well, here's hoping we can. We can make more bread 724 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: and bring more people, bring more people back toward a 725 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: future that centers community instead of exclusion. You know, that's 726 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: that's my hope. I guess that's probably my work in progress. 727 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: And I don't want to make here's the thing. I 728 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,840 Speaker 1: don't want to make light of it. But I also 729 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:35,240 Speaker 1: know that like the deepest, purest, like most sacred rage 730 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: I have that I could encounter people who've betrayed other 731 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: people for me is true, Like I have to be 732 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,399 Speaker 1: uncomfortable and say that to you anyway, and I have 733 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: to say I also see the humanity in you. And 734 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: at some point, at least for me in my assignment 735 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 1: to like collect folks and start figuring out how we 736 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: build together is to be like, oh goodness, like I've 737 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: watched you. I see the shame and the tears, and 738 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,479 Speaker 1: also you're a person who deserves lightness as you move 739 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,279 Speaker 1: forward and try to inspire other people to do it, 740 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: and like, I hope we can start to try to 741 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 1: meet each other from the best parts of ourselves. And 742 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 1: I realize as I'm saying this particular string of words, 743 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 1: like I'm saying it for me to honor my self, 744 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,359 Speaker 1: I'm saying it for you because I want to build 745 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: a connection that's like truly vulnerable and honest and that 746 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 1: finds joy. And I'm saying it for people at home 747 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:56,880 Speaker 1: who are either going to be like this is so 748 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 1: inspiring or like what the fuck are you doing? Where 749 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: are your principles? Like I actually think this is the 750 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: principle is where do we meet and how do we 751 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 1: change it? And I'll be honest with you I have 752 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 1: to remind myself over and over again, and you're helping 753 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 1: me do it, like you didn't see coverage. For me, 754 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 1: it was wall to wall, like you know, panic buttons 755 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 1: were ripped out of black congress women's offices, like people 756 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:33,919 Speaker 1: planned to lynch black elected officials that day. It's one 757 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,360 Speaker 1: of the horrors of American history for me, as a 758 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,719 Speaker 1: person who, like, you know, whose family came here like 759 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,839 Speaker 1: almost cowboy cartoon version of the American dream story, right, 760 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 1: like came on boats and came for college, and like, 761 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:55,520 Speaker 1: my family loves America, and it's hard, and I see 762 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 1: how hard it is for you even to sit with 763 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,839 Speaker 1: the reality of that. And like, I think the only 764 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 1: way we figure out how to build an America that 765 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 1: is complete is one that learns and tells its history. 766 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: And you're you're learning in you're learning American history in 767 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,400 Speaker 1: a way that like has to be really tough to 768 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:19,120 Speaker 1: do in public. 769 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 2: You know, That's where I'm not with everyone's like, how 770 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,319 Speaker 2: do I wake up my mom? How do I wake 771 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 2: up my dad? I can message just like that every day. 772 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,120 Speaker 1: It's got to be hard for you too, because you're 773 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 1: also not like a You're not a clinician. You're not 774 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: a psychologist. You're a girl who's trying to do this 775 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 1: for herself and i'd imagine for your kids too. You know. 776 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:41,839 Speaker 2: Yeah. 777 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 1: I have so many more questions for Carter and really 778 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,759 Speaker 1: appreciate her willingness to talk about all these truths, even 779 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: though it's got to be hard to do so under 780 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,319 Speaker 1: the light of day. Let's take a break here and 781 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 1: come back with her for a part two to figure 782 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,600 Speaker 1: out where we go from here.