Speaker 1: Hi, Catherine, Hi Chelsea. Hi, Well, I have been traveling
Speaker 1: like a little at easter Bunny. Yeah, you're making my
Speaker 1: rounds around the world, and I cannot tell you how
Speaker 1: exciting and fun it is. It's so nice to be
Speaker 1: out of the country. I've been out of the country.
Speaker 2: I have to ask you, you have been so many
Speaker 2: places this summer. You're going to Africa, are going to
Speaker 2: all these different places. Is there anything still on your
Speaker 2: bucket list? What's still on your bucket list?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. I haven't been to a lot of places.
Speaker 1: I have never been to Prague. I've never been to Beirut,
Speaker 1: which is supposed to be really interesting. I've never been
Speaker 1: to Well. I would like to go to Istanbul, and
Speaker 1: I want to go to Jordan. I want to go
Speaker 1: to Jordan.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So isn't that where that church that's like
Speaker 2: carved into the stone is from Indiana Jones.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure about that. But I need to know
Speaker 1: someone who has lived in any of these places when
Speaker 1: I go, because when I go to somewhere that I
Speaker 1: really need to like, usually we get a tour guide
Speaker 1: and that's fine. You know, they're actually very informative and
Speaker 1: it's It's a good way to learn about the city
Speaker 1: better than me left to my own devices, because I'll
Speaker 1: just end up at a cafe drinking all day if
Speaker 1: nobody says anything. But yeah, I don't know. I have
Speaker 1: to find out who to take those trips with, and
Speaker 1: I like to be with somebody who's been there before,
Speaker 1: Like India is another place that I would like to
Speaker 1: go back to without working, because when I went there,
Speaker 1: I was filming as well. Russia. I've been there. I'm
Speaker 1: wrapped on Russia as everyone. You're good with that, I'm
Speaker 1: good with that. So I don't know what I have
Speaker 1: on my bucket list. Probably I want to take my
Speaker 1: sisters to Bora Borat because they've never been there and
Speaker 1: that was one of the happiest trips of my life,
Speaker 1: which I've discussed on the show. Oh. I also started
Speaker 1: reading The Body Keeps the Score You did. It's pretty heavy,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't realize how heavy it was. So I
Speaker 1: started reading that, and then I realized I have eight
Speaker 1: books i'm reading, and with traveling, I'm downloading them on
Speaker 1: my kindle. I mean, oh, sorry, I don't have a
Speaker 1: kiddled my iPad, but my iPad's fucking battery runs out
Speaker 1: so quickly, so it's very so I need a hardcover,
Speaker 1: and I much prefer a hardcover anyway. But I'm in
Speaker 1: the middle of like six books, and when I travel,
Speaker 1: I don't read as much because I'm too busy gallivan
Speaker 1: hunting around, you know, hooking up with strangers and chatting
Speaker 1: to meet friends and being like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, okay, tell me if you can help me
Speaker 2: with this, because Brad and I are going well, we
Speaker 2: have our fifteenth wedding anniversary this year. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: how wild?
Speaker 1: Fifteen years is a long time, a long.
Speaker 2: Time, and we've been together for eighteen oh like truly,
Speaker 2: if we had gotten pregnant our first night dating, then
Speaker 2: we would basically have a high school graduate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what kind of fucking logic is that we
Speaker 1: are not talking about that I was almost in a
Speaker 1: plane crash. What do you mean?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does feel that way, but I.
Speaker 1: Actually it was pregnant when I was fifteen years old,
Speaker 1: So if I had a baby, that's something to talk about.
Speaker 1: If I had a baby. If I had had my
Speaker 1: baby when I was pregnant, wait, let's do the math
Speaker 1: on this. I would be he would be I'm forty eight,
Speaker 1: that baby would be thirty. Shit, I would have a
Speaker 1: thirty three year old baby. Wow, well you woun to
Speaker 1: be a baby. I don't know why it's a he
Speaker 1: but yeah, oh god, thank god you made some right
Speaker 1: life choices.
Speaker 2: So we are going away somewhere for our fifteenth anniversary.
Speaker 4: Underware.
Speaker 2: Okay, Brad says his limit for a trip is nine days.
Speaker 2: He won't go for longer than way to Italy for
Speaker 2: a month.
Speaker 1: We can work from there. He's like, no, why, Brad,
Speaker 1: what's your doing? I get stir crazy, stir crazy. You're
Speaker 1: on vacation.
Speaker 2: But I've got other stuff that I like to do, Chelsea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got shit to do.
Speaker 3: No, I feel like nine days you start to feel like,
Speaker 3: all right, I'm ready to go home now.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so funny. I never feel like it's time
Speaker 1: to go home.
Speaker 4: I mean, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1: I like being on the road. I like traveling, but
Speaker 1: then at a certain point I'm ready for my own
Speaker 1: bed and a comfortable familiar surrounding.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: Okay, so nine minutes, get back to nine days. I
Speaker 1: don't well, you could do that anything. I don't know
Speaker 1: where you would go for nine days? You could break
Speaker 1: it up. Go to Italy, go to Pulia. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: people like those pictures there. And then there's Chinca tra
Speaker 1: or Sinca Ta, I don't know how you say it.
Speaker 1: And that's supposed to be beautiful. You can bounce around
Speaker 1: Italy in nine.
Speaker 4: Days, That's what I'm kind of.
Speaker 1: Florence is the best city in Italy in my opinion
Speaker 1: that I've been to, most like the most beautiful, sexy,
Speaker 1: beautiful museums there. I mean, Rome is cool, but Rome's
Speaker 1: like a shit show.
Speaker 4: Yeah, out of control. Yeah. I've literally been trying to
Speaker 4: get her to go to Italy with me for like.
Speaker 1: Oh, there you go.
Speaker 2: That's so any time you just take me.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The thing is with my house in my Orca. I
Speaker 1: stopped going to Italy when I bought this house. I
Speaker 1: don't really go anywhere else except for my worka so yeah,
Speaker 1: but I'm heading to Portugal soon, so we'll see how
Speaker 1: that goes.
Speaker 4: That will be fun.
Speaker 2: We were almost going to go to Portugal because my
Speaker 2: cousin was getting married there and now she's getting married
Speaker 2: in La.
Speaker 1: I need to find a Spanish, Portuguese or Italian man
Speaker 1: that is taller and bigger than me.
Speaker 2: Who knows the area so he can take you on tours.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah and broken English like that, back and forth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, send us your recommendations, everybody.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, guys, we have added more shows to my
Speaker 1: Little Big Bitch tour because I'm coming all over. We
Speaker 1: added a second show at the Pantagius in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: so that's October twelfth and Friday the thirteenth. We added
Speaker 1: a second show in Boston at the Waning Center September
Speaker 1: twenty ninth and thirtieth is two shows in New York.
Speaker 1: I also have a show in East Hampton, New York,
Speaker 1: August twenty six. We added a second show in Portland,
Speaker 1: so Thursday, November tewod Friday November third, and Portland November
Speaker 1: fourth and fifth. In San Francisco, two shows there. We
Speaker 1: added a second show in Seattle November tenth and eleventh.
Speaker 1: Two shows Boston are November sixteenth and seventeenth at the
Speaker 1: Bach Center at Wang Theater. And I'm also coming to
Speaker 1: Toronto and Montreal and Ottawa and so many other cities Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Louisville.
Speaker 1: So I will see everybody at all of these shows.
Speaker 1: Thank you, get your tickets at Chelseahandler dot com. Our
Speaker 1: guest today is back by popular demand. Many of you
Speaker 1: love her because you've heard her on this podcast, or
Speaker 1: I should say you love her on this podcast if
Speaker 1: that's not how you've heard of her. But she's a
Speaker 1: very good friend of mine, and it is an absolute
Speaker 1: delight because she loves giving advice as much as I do.
Speaker 1: Juliana Marghi, le's Catherine. Hi, Hi, your favorite person is here?
Speaker 2: Hi, Catherine, Hi, Juliana.
Speaker 4: I knew Katherine wasn't going to be here, so I
Speaker 4: didn't bring you this disgusting.
Speaker 2: I heard Macha lemonade.
Speaker 4: So there's a store downstairs, and I was like, well,
Speaker 4: she's probably already had coffee. I've had coffee. What's a
Speaker 4: Maucha lemonade?
Speaker 1: You've been watching too much of Keeping Up with the Kardashians.
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's not called that anymore. What is it
Speaker 1: called the Kardashians? The kardash Courtney Kardashian All. She bangs
Speaker 1: on about Macha lemonade the whole time.
Speaker 4: Do you know I've never seen one episode?
Speaker 1: Of course you haven't. Good for you?
Speaker 4: Okay, Hi, Hi?
Speaker 1: More than that. Later we'll talk about it. I'm sure
Speaker 1: we are. We have our very sexual guest. She's back
Speaker 1: by popular demand because of her sexual voice and her
Speaker 1: sexual advice. Juliana marky Lea's is back for the What time?
Speaker 1: Is this the third time?
Speaker 4: Third time?
Speaker 1: I love it? But we're on season four, so we're
Speaker 1: gonna have to double up because you need to be
Speaker 1: in and I think we need to stop having seasons. Catherine,
Speaker 1: isn't that girl?
Speaker 4: How does the podcast season work?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 2: We make it up as we go along. Basically fiscal year?
Speaker 4: How does that work? Do I do my taxes by it?
Speaker 1: It's basically whenever I decide I need two weeks off,
Speaker 1: that's the break we get.
Speaker 4: Got it? And this time I'm just your cohort.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't even have any questions to
Speaker 1: ask you, because I've talked to you all the time. Actually,
Speaker 1: I do have some questions to ask you. Juliana and
Speaker 1: I have a date tonight.
Speaker 4: We have a romantic evening planned.
Speaker 1: Because Juliana also has a birthday coming up tomorrow, which
Speaker 1: she wants to spend with her husband. I'm not sure why,
Speaker 1: but I'll go with it.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: Chelsea was like, no, let's do it on your birthday.
Speaker 4: I'm like, ah, I'm a husband, have dinner.
Speaker 1: What does he have to do with anything?
Speaker 4: You can? Yeah, so we're doing it. Actually it's better because,
Speaker 4: first of all, I want to say one thing. I
Speaker 4: was listening to a podcast. Rarely do I not listen
Speaker 4: to yours, Okay, but I heard Dion von Furstenberg on
Speaker 4: Julia Louis Dreyfus is Wiser than me.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I heard. That's a great podcast.
Speaker 4: It's great. I think I texted you and I was like, Chelsea,
Speaker 4: you need to listen to this because it's all women
Speaker 4: are older than her, and she and Julie is older
Speaker 4: than us. So it's just these beautiful words of wisdom.
Speaker 4: And Dion, who I know, but oftentimes when I see her,
Speaker 4: I can't really understand what she's saying. I've met, but
Speaker 4: she was so clear on this podcast. Anyway, I was
Speaker 4: watering my garden last weekend and one of the questions
Speaker 4: that Julia Louis Dreyfus always asks her guests or do
Speaker 4: you mind if I ask you your age? And most
Speaker 4: of them all say not at all, I'm seventy five
Speaker 4: whatever not Dion. Dion said, you can but I don't
Speaker 4: like the way you phrased it. I like to say,
Speaker 4: how many years have you lived? It's much more honorable
Speaker 4: it is. And I realize, like, yeah, to say even
Speaker 4: to a kid, like how many years have you lived
Speaker 4: on this planet? I've lived nine years. It suddenly makes
Speaker 4: age seem exciting, yeah, rather than horrifying.
Speaker 1: I agree with that. I've been actually examining the way
Speaker 1: that I feel about elderly people recently, because you know,
Speaker 1: in other cultures. I mean, I hate when people say
Speaker 1: certain cultures are more family oriented than other cultures, because
Speaker 1: to me, what culture isn't family oriented? Besides like isis?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like everyone likes their family anyway.
Speaker 1: I don't know if isis is a culture, but they'd
Speaker 1: like to be any anyway. And I realize, like when
Speaker 1: my grandparents, like when people become kind of i don't know,
Speaker 1: ineffectual or like they're not really participating in life the
Speaker 1: way that you value people participating in life. I've noticed
Speaker 1: that I don't take the elderly as seriously as I
Speaker 1: want to, Like, I'm dismissive of somebody when they're out
Speaker 1: of it, when they're old and they're out of it,
Speaker 1: like when my dad hit a wall. And I know
Speaker 1: your mom had a big birthday recently, eighty eight.
Speaker 4: Right had my stepmother's ninety one today. Oh wow, yeah,
Speaker 4: thank you dad for leaving me her and.
Speaker 1: And tell me what your thoughts on that what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: So you know in Japan it's opposite, right, The older
Speaker 4: you are, the more respected you.
Speaker 1: The more revered. Sorry, I have Juliana brought some Macha lemonade.
Speaker 1: It's awful, it's not I have to gargle really sparkling water.
Speaker 1: I'm actually going to find you for bringing that instead
Speaker 1: of saying thank you.
Speaker 4: The reason I brought it was because I'm always early.
Speaker 4: I was downstairs early at two rather than to twenty
Speaker 4: five when I was supposed to be here. And I thought, oh,
Speaker 4: I'll bring Chelsea something to drink. She's been in a
Speaker 4: studio all day. And then I thought, Chelsea's so adventurous,
Speaker 4: she's always trying new things, she's always going to different countries.
Speaker 4: Don't get the same old same old get her. And
Speaker 4: I said to the guy, what's a matcha lemonade? That
Speaker 4: sounds bizarre, and he goes, it's really good. It's awful,
Speaker 4: and it.
Speaker 1: Also needs to be. I don't understand in New York
Speaker 1: or really anywhere why they don't put more ice in drinks.
Speaker 1: When you put a little amount of ice in drinks,
Speaker 1: it melts faster.
Speaker 4: It's a natural store down there, that's why.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyway, that's a very American thing.
Speaker 1: Ice. I know, I know, I know. I've been traveling.
Speaker 4: You understand that when we're going on a romantic vacation,
Speaker 4: Chelsea and I, and when we go to London and
Speaker 4: you ask for ice, they put one cube.
Speaker 1: In the Oh. I don't worry. I'm prepared, okay, I
Speaker 1: already ship ice, ship ice ahead. You think with all
Speaker 1: these ice, you think with all these ice cups melting,
Speaker 1: we'd have more fucking ice, not less of it. We
Speaker 1: need to get that ice and use it for drinks.
Speaker 1: My friend was going off the other day about water,
Speaker 1: and then I was talking to somebody else this morning
Speaker 1: about water. You know, because everyone's always shoving water or
Speaker 1: down our throats, like water is so important. You have
Speaker 1: to have water, water, water, water. And now all I
Speaker 1: hear from doctors is it doesn't matter how much water
Speaker 1: you drink, you will never hydrate yourself. You have to
Speaker 1: put electrolytes in the water you have to And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: but why has everyone been banging on about water for
Speaker 1: so many years if it doesn't do anything. In fact,
Speaker 1: if you drink too much water, it can make you dehydrated. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so now I'm just gonna snort my electrolytes.
Speaker 4: So I put I use those doctor Nigba electrolytes with
Speaker 4: vitamin C complex or whatever it is, and I put
Speaker 4: a big thing in when I go work out, and
Speaker 4: I drink that whole thing and then I'm like, I'm
Speaker 4: good for the day. I'm sure I should have more.
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 4: No, it's enough.
Speaker 1: I mean there's water and everything else we're drinking.
Speaker 4: Although I had a friend who was addicted to diet
Speaker 4: coke and she's like, it's liquid waters.
Speaker 1: Tell me about Okay, go back to the elderly conversation.
Speaker 4: So like in Japan, they revere their elders. The older
Speaker 4: you are, the more respect you get. And that makes
Speaker 4: total sense to me. In Sweden, the elderly are cared
Speaker 4: for in this country, especially because I'm taking care of
Speaker 4: two elderly women. My stepmother is she can't move and
Speaker 4: she has m essay which is multiple systems atrophied. Everything
Speaker 4: is atropheeded. So she you know, you need to feed
Speaker 4: her and what. And I have her in a nursing home.
Speaker 4: But I'm lucky because I can afford it. Insurance doesn't
Speaker 4: pay for a nice one, you know, And I pay
Speaker 4: for a woman to come and see her every day
Speaker 4: because she's way up in Massachusetts and she didn't want
Speaker 4: to move when my dad died. And I just think, like,
Speaker 4: this country doesn't take care of their elders. All the
Speaker 4: old people unless you are financially okay, you're screwed. And
Speaker 4: the young people don't respect the elders at all.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: It's a really I noticed that about myself and I
Speaker 1: was like and then I was like, oh, maybe it's
Speaker 1: my own experience with my father, because when he became
Speaker 1: so old, he was just kind of, you know, not
Speaker 1: really there and in a home, and so we'd go
Speaker 1: and visit him and it was like talking to a
Speaker 1: big brick and I was like, well, what's the point
Speaker 1: of this, Like, what's the point of even visiting? And
Speaker 1: my sister's like, it's matters to touch and to talk,
Speaker 1: like it matters, even though he doesn't know what's going
Speaker 1: on really like it's important for you to like give
Speaker 1: him loving words and stuff. And I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that, but I think I have to
Speaker 1: pay more attention to the elderly.
Speaker 4: Also, my mom has middle stage dementia, and there are
Speaker 4: days where it's brutal, but then there are moments where
Speaker 4: she's really lucid, and the clarity and the little snippets
Speaker 4: of wisdom I had to read because I would get
Speaker 4: angry because I didn't want to see her like that.
Speaker 4: I would be like, stop, you know, because it's your mom.
Speaker 4: But then I decided, Okay, this is where where I
Speaker 4: can't change what's happening to her brain or her age, right,
Speaker 4: this is the natural progression of life. But what I
Speaker 4: can change is my response to it. So one of
Speaker 4: the things I started doing instead of saying, because she
Speaker 4: punishes me for taking her car away, she could not
Speaker 4: drive anywhere, And instead of me getting angry or saying, well, mom,
Speaker 4: you would leave the car on in the garage for
Speaker 4: five hours while you were home. You understand you can't
Speaker 4: drive on, instead, I go, you know what, that must
Speaker 4: be really hard when you're used to being independent your
Speaker 4: whole life and having that taken away. I have such
Speaker 4: empathy for it. And she just looked and she goes, oh,
Speaker 4: thank you. It stopped the fighting and it stopped It
Speaker 4: made our moments together joyful rather than tense, which they
Speaker 4: were in the beginning, because it was a very difficult
Speaker 4: transition to go from an independent woman to assisted living.
Speaker 4: I mean, she was mortified in her lucid moments. But
Speaker 4: I tell you, I am restructuring my brain on how
Speaker 4: to respond even to my stepmother, who hallucinates great shit.
Speaker 4: She I mean, I went to see her last week
Speaker 4: and she said, oh, your sister is such a bitch.
Speaker 4: My sister lives in Los Angeles. And I said, and Vicky,
Speaker 4: my step mother can't talk on the phone because she
Speaker 4: can't hear and she can't pick up the phone. And well,
Speaker 4: she was sitting right there in that chair this morning
Speaker 4: and told me I looked fat and old. And I said, oh, Vicky,
Speaker 4: she even if she thought that, I pretty I'm pretty
Speaker 4: sure she wouldn't say that to you. And also she
Speaker 4: lives in California. Nope, I was sitting right there. And
Speaker 4: then I said, VICKI think about it. Maybe you're projecting
Speaker 4: how you feel about yourself and you're putting it onto her.
Speaker 4: And she had this incredibly lucid moment. She goes, she
Speaker 4: calls me Julie. She goes, Julie, Oh my god, you're right.
Speaker 4: It's how I feel.
Speaker 1: And I just thought, like, this is great.
Speaker 4: This is great material for writing, this is great material
Speaker 4: for a life lesson, Like, I'm not going to get
Speaker 4: angry at her because she called my sister a bitch.
Speaker 4: I know she doesn't mean it. My sister certainly isn't
Speaker 4: a bitch. And my sister wasn't even there. This is
Speaker 4: all in her head and it's theater. It's like I
Speaker 4: sit there and I watch her. I mean, she told
Speaker 4: me she was writing a book. I said, you are.
Speaker 4: I'm not going to tell you the title. It's great,
Speaker 4: you'll steal it. And I said, no, no, I'm good,
Speaker 4: vic I'm not going to steal it, but don't tell
Speaker 4: me if you don't want. She goes, well, hold on,
Speaker 4: let me ask how. And I thought how was like
Speaker 4: a nurse's aid or somebody. And she leans over sort
Speaker 4: of with her neck, and then she looks at me.
Speaker 4: She said, Hell says it's okay, And I go, oh,
Speaker 4: is hell here? And she goes, of course, like I'm
Speaker 4: an asshole, and I said, I'm so sorry I didn't
Speaker 4: see him. And here's the title of the book. Now,
Speaker 4: how can this happen? Okay, the title of the book
Speaker 4: is Placido Domingo Sings in the Furnished Basement.
Speaker 1: That's so funny, man. I used to do that shit
Speaker 1: all the time, writing books, writing books, writing books. I
Speaker 1: wonder if that's something that comes when you're older and
Speaker 1: you have dementia, that you think you're like whatever you
Speaker 1: wished you were right, you become.
Speaker 4: She loved Placido Domingo and she was an a cheerier designer.
Speaker 4: She likes to redo a basement, so maybe it's also
Speaker 4: her mind realizing it has to keep itself company, you know.
Speaker 4: So maybe she's keeping herself company. So instead of me
Speaker 4: walking out of their feeling depressed, which is how I
Speaker 4: used to feel all the time, or I'd look up
Speaker 4: and be like Jesus Christ, Dad, seriously, you left me
Speaker 4: this because it's a lot, and I always feel guilty
Speaker 4: for not doing more. Instead, I like, I drive back
Speaker 4: to the city laughing because I'm like, that was such
Speaker 4: great entertainment and I will use it one day. For sure.
Speaker 4: I'm going to write a book called Placido Domingos Things.
Speaker 2: I'll send you a copy of this book. But in
Speaker 2: a past life, I was a ghostwriter for people who
Speaker 2: work with Alzheimer's patients and dementia patients. And that's actually
Speaker 2: exactly what they recommend that you do. Is rather than saying, like,
Speaker 2: you know, if they're asking about their husband, like oh,
Speaker 2: he died several years ago, then they go through this
Speaker 2: whole grief stage all over again, you just say, oh,
Speaker 2: I haven't seen him today. Change the subject. You know,
Speaker 2: it's this response in a different way, just go yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: But I'll send you a book by Joe Huey. She
Speaker 2: was one of the most wonderful experts that we worked
Speaker 2: with and went through it with her own mother and
Speaker 2: developed all these amazing strategies.
Speaker 4: Oh wonder, I didn't know that you did that note.
Speaker 4: That's fascinating. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When you said previous life, I thought you were talking
Speaker 1: seriously about a previous life. I'm like, well, I just
Speaker 1: pretty specific. First, are we going there?
Speaker 4: Passwork life?
Speaker 1: It's a bit much at the top of the show.
Speaker 4: No, thank you, But I do think it's about art.
Speaker 4: It's about how what our responses are with anything. Obviously
Speaker 4: it's your response to it. And the elderly need to
Speaker 4: be respected and loved, you really do. And they're baddy
Speaker 4: and crazy some of them, and some of them aren't.
Speaker 4: Like some of them are completely lucid and have the
Speaker 4: best advice to give.
Speaker 1: Like my friend's dad just died and she was telling
Speaker 1: me how he was. You know, they were sitting together.
Speaker 1: Obviously that's a different situation when someone's passing, but they
Speaker 1: were sitting together and she's like, yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: had to change his diapers five days in a row.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know that I would do that.
Speaker 1: She goes, of course you would do it, Chelsea, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know that I would. I would
Speaker 1: probably have somebody else do that. Like I don't think
Speaker 1: I could handle changing my father's diaper. I don't think
Speaker 1: I could either, and I wish I could, but I
Speaker 1: don't think that that's I would be dishonest to pretend
Speaker 1: that I think I could do.
Speaker 4: Although you never know until you're you know. I always
Speaker 4: say to my husband every time after I visit my stepmother,
Speaker 4: because my mother's living a beautiful life and she walks
Speaker 4: and still teach us at this place, like she's living
Speaker 4: a full life. But my stepmother's in a bed, you know,
Speaker 4: in a nursing home and can't move. And I every
Speaker 4: time I come home, I say to him, if I
Speaker 4: cannot wipe my own ass, please just put a pillow
Speaker 4: over my head and kill me. And he's very philosophical
Speaker 4: about always goes. You know, you never know until you're
Speaker 4: in their shoes. You just don't know. Maybe she actually
Speaker 4: is enjoying her life. You know, people are doting on her,
Speaker 4: everyone's around her. She doesn't have to lift a finger.
Speaker 4: She certainly doesn't have to cook, clean or make her bed.
Speaker 4: And he goes. You just don't know until you get there.
Speaker 4: But I do believe you don't know until you're.
Speaker 1: There that I would clean somebody's shit up, or if
Speaker 1: I would enjoy myself, if I would enjoy shitting my
Speaker 1: own pants. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 4: Ay, I don't think you would enjoy shitting your own pants,
Speaker 4: but be when you're at the point of shitting your
Speaker 4: own pants. I don't think you know.
Speaker 1: Right, But you could be happy, as your argument.
Speaker 4: Or my argument is not that I would ever be
Speaker 4: happy cleaning up someone's shit, I'd probably vomit a little bit.
Speaker 4: But I think if you love someone, yeah, and you
Speaker 4: get over the first few times of it, it becomes listen,
Speaker 4: look what That's why nurse are my heroes. Yeah, they're
Speaker 4: my heroes. Look what they do, I know, and they
Speaker 4: do it without blinking.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 4: And the smells that are in the it is.
Speaker 1: But you are right. I think if you do clean
Speaker 1: up someone's shit a couple of times, it probably isn't
Speaker 1: so traumatizing the fourth or.
Speaker 4: Fifth Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, no, let's switch topics. I want to give it
Speaker 1: okay because that was a lot of poop, yeah, and
Speaker 1: a lot of elderly talk. But we're going to revere
Speaker 1: our elderly, or at least I'm going to make a
Speaker 1: bigger effort to revere my elderly. I need to get
Speaker 1: more elderly people in my life.
Speaker 4: Well, you've got me.
Speaker 1: I know that you. You already mentioned that you've been
Speaker 1: moonlighting by listening to Julia Louis Dreyfus's podcast, which we'll accept,
Speaker 1: but we also I have intel that you were called
Speaker 1: into Sarah Silverman's podcast and left a message.
Speaker 4: I did, I did, I was given that private friends
Speaker 4: friend's number, and I did not use it because I
Speaker 4: felt like it was weird. I was like, I'm just
Speaker 4: a caller. I'm a listener. I listen and I love her.
Speaker 4: And I just was listening to how anxious people are
Speaker 4: about the rise of anti Semitism. It's gone up seventy
Speaker 4: seven percent. I saw that in the last two years,
Speaker 4: and it is frightening. And it's not just a Jewish problem,
Speaker 4: it's a universal problem. And I listened to podcasts all
Speaker 4: the time because I'm always in the kitchen by myself,
Speaker 4: and it's like I have my friends with me. And
Speaker 4: so I called in. I looked it up on the
Speaker 4: computer and then I left a message and I just said,
Speaker 4: I am hearing everybody, and I feel like I felt
Speaker 4: the same way, and I took a step to do
Speaker 4: something about it rather than complain about it. And I
Speaker 4: feel like you can reach out into your own community
Speaker 4: and do something. And what I decided to do was
Speaker 4: just educate, because I think anti Semitism is ignorance. And
Speaker 4: if we educate our children, because only nineteen out of
Speaker 4: fifty states in our country teach about the Holocaust, so
Speaker 4: we need to start educating and it's been an incredible
Speaker 4: journey and it's true bold and size in two years
Speaker 4: my program, and I just feel like you can reach
Speaker 4: out into your own community and do something rather than
Speaker 4: sit by or sit back and feel afraid. And I
Speaker 4: had no idea how many people feel the same way,
Speaker 4: because when I reached out to everyone, I knew to
Speaker 4: tell them about this program HESP that I started with
Speaker 4: interns teaching middle and high school students. Everyone responded, everyone donated,
Speaker 4: whether it was one hundred dollars or thirty five thousand dollars.
Speaker 4: It was unbelievable. And within three weeks we have two
Speaker 4: more years set up already. Wow with ten instead of
Speaker 4: six in terms, we have ten now, so that'll reach
Speaker 4: that'll reach sixty five hundred students.
Speaker 1: And how did you work to conceptualize that with? I mean,
Speaker 1: did you do that with somebody else?
Speaker 4: I did it with the Museum of Jewish Heritage here
Speaker 4: in New York because I happened to know if you
Speaker 4: ever go to any of the Jewish museums across this country,
Speaker 4: nine out of ten times is usually me touring. Get
Speaker 4: I give my voice to them, and I do the tours. Really,
Speaker 4: so when you put on the little yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Julia, and his voice is all over the world.
Speaker 1: You never know, but you're always listening to Juliana. She
Speaker 1: does a lot of voiceovers.
Speaker 4: So it's one of the things I give because I
Speaker 4: feel so blessed to be in the position I'm in.
Speaker 4: So whenever they ask, I'm like, yeah, of course, let me.
Speaker 4: I'll be your the tour guide for the new exhibit.
Speaker 4: Did you ever read that book that Jodie Picot wrote
Speaker 4: called Small Great Things? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 4: So remember so that so Small Great Things is Martin
Speaker 4: Luther King said you can't do big great things, but
Speaker 4: you can do small great things. That's where the title
Speaker 4: came from, which is how I feel about HESP. I'm like, okay, well,
Speaker 4: and so I called him after I did this hosting
Speaker 4: for CBS. I didn't think i'd get paid. I mean,
Speaker 4: it was, of course a labor of love. But they did.
Speaker 4: They paid me, and I wouldn't. I was like, that's crazy,
Speaker 4: you can't, like, let's put that money to something. So
Speaker 4: I called Jack Kleeger and I said, I want to
Speaker 4: start an education program. Help me. Here's the money I
Speaker 4: made from this thing, which was more money than I
Speaker 4: thought i'd have, so I gave him the one hundred
Speaker 4: grand and I said, let's start an education program. So
Speaker 4: he and I sat down, because they have amazing Holocaust
Speaker 4: historians there. So this program, we do an eight day
Speaker 4: intensive training on how to teach about the Holocaust, and
Speaker 4: then we send our interns out to all these schools,
Speaker 4: mostly in the outer boroughs, and they teach middle to
Speaker 4: high school students, all age appropriate. You know, we don't
Speaker 4: go lower than middle school because it's tough. The younger
Speaker 4: children don't need to know yet, but they do need
Speaker 4: to know in seventh and eighth grade. And then after
Speaker 4: the one hour class, we bust them all and all
Speaker 4: of this is free. We bust them to the museum
Speaker 4: and so then they can see what they've just heard
Speaker 4: about and learned.
Speaker 1: And are these non Jewish kids or Jewish kids?
Speaker 4: Also the kids were teaching, uh huh, most of them
Speaker 4: are non Jewish. There was a little boy in the
Speaker 4: Bronx eighth grade and this little boy said, wow, so
Speaker 4: six million Jews died in the Holocaust? Are there any left?
Speaker 4: He didn't know, and he's what are you in eighth grade?
Speaker 4: Twelve thirteen years old? So it's just lack of education,
Speaker 4: and I feel like if we teach our kids young enough,
Speaker 4: when they get old enough, because part of that book,
Speaker 4: Small Great Things, which I found quite remarkable, was to
Speaker 4: see the white supremacist side. She goes in there and
Speaker 4: she sees the white supremacist side, and most of the
Speaker 4: kids who are in these families were abandoned, had alcoholic
Speaker 4: parents who didn't give a shit about them, and the
Speaker 4: white supremacist said, you'll have a family with us, and
Speaker 4: then they grow up with the hate learning they don't know,
Speaker 4: but that's what they're taught. But they feel the love
Speaker 4: from these people, and that's then what they vomit out
Speaker 4: to the world.
Speaker 1: And we only have fifteen million Jews left in this
Speaker 1: whole world.
Speaker 4: And the survivors are dying out. So part of this program,
Speaker 4: which we are slowly taking to the national stage, the
Speaker 4: idea is that this is a blueprint because it is working.
Speaker 4: And I've now partnered with the AJC American Jewish Committee,
Speaker 4: so we're going to start with the eastern seaports, so
Speaker 4: we're going to spread it out to Connecticut, New Jersey
Speaker 4: down to Washington and then hopefully spread it across the
Speaker 4: country in rural places in Kentucky and Oklahoma and all
Speaker 4: the places that never teach about Honestly, it's just history itself,
Speaker 4: and if we don't teach about it, it will repeat itself.
Speaker 4: So the idea is never again. But I feel strongly
Speaker 4: for the children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of Holocaust survivors.
Speaker 4: Because the survivors are dying out, you know, there's only
Speaker 4: a few left. It is now their responsibility to make
Speaker 4: sure that memory stays alive and to spread the word
Speaker 4: that this can never happen again, and to share the
Speaker 4: stories that their grandparents and great grandparents told them as children.
Speaker 4: And one of the reasons why I think my program
Speaker 4: is working is because we bring in these hip, young
Speaker 4: college and graduate students to teach. Right, so high school
Speaker 4: students in middle school kids love a young, hip teacher.
Speaker 4: I don't know if they're hip, but to them they are.
Speaker 4: You know, they're young, They're not like I know. I
Speaker 4: said the word slay you slayed it the other day
Speaker 4: and my son, my son looked at me and goes, oh,
Speaker 4: my god, don't ever say that word. So my hope
Speaker 4: is to get these great grandchildren into these classrooms to
Speaker 4: talk about their great grandparents to tell the story because
Speaker 4: it's the Holocaust deniers. It's just so bizarre that they're
Speaker 4: just denying what has been archived for eighty years. But
Speaker 4: anyway to say when they grow up, to say no, no,
Speaker 4: that's not true, when they start hearing all that stuff,
Speaker 4: go no, no, no, that's not true. But also to
Speaker 4: turn it into something else, which is in October it
Speaker 4: will be the eightieth anniversary of the Great Danish Rescue.
Speaker 4: The Danes were incredible in World War Two. They rescued
Speaker 4: seventy five hundred Jews by themselves in boats. And we
Speaker 4: have the boat at the museum. It's in Connecticut, Mystic
Speaker 4: Connecticut right now. And it was children, families rescue them
Speaker 4: from where, rescue them from the Nazis from where Denmark
Speaker 4: to Sweden, oh oh, at midnight in boats, back and forth,
Speaker 4: back and forth, back and forth. And we're doing a
Speaker 4: great exhibit actually in October at the museum for it.
Speaker 4: But I was saying to the board there because I
Speaker 4: wanted this to become a bigger and bigger program. I said,
Speaker 4: you know what, movies, the movies that are huge that
Speaker 4: kids go to are all about heroes. The Danes who
Speaker 4: rescued these Jews who called them our brothers, our Danish
Speaker 4: brothers and sisters, you know, and we will protect you.
Speaker 4: They were heroes. So let's make this about being a
Speaker 4: hero standing up to evil as opposed to it becoming
Speaker 4: too political or too religious. Kids understand a hero, they
Speaker 4: love going to see Marvel movies, which is all about heroes.
Speaker 4: Let's make this about a heroic act to stand up
Speaker 4: to someone who's anti Semitic. So I don't know, We're trying,
Speaker 4: and it's we're starting.
Speaker 1: How can our listeners learn more about HESSP, which means
Speaker 1: at the end HESP H E s P.
Speaker 4: I call my interns, my hespians. If you just go
Speaker 4: on to the Museum of Jewish Heritage dot org and
Speaker 4: type in HESP H e SP or the hes program,
Speaker 4: you go right to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sarah Silverman is going to be very interested in this.
Speaker 1: Does she know about it?
Speaker 4: She's amazing. And can I just say, of all my
Speaker 4: Hollywood friends like you and Sarah, when I sent out
Speaker 4: that email, not only responded right away, but donated right away.
Speaker 4: And I have to tell you I was really touched.
Speaker 4: That was really touching because not a lot of Hollywood
Speaker 4: has responded.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's really disappointing.
Speaker 4: Really disappointing. But you guys did and and all my
Speaker 4: you know, I mean every parent at my kid's school
Speaker 4: and friends and family, but you guys like were the
Speaker 4: first ones to donate.
Speaker 1: Did you watch Sarah's new special?
Speaker 4: I haven't seen it. You have to stay in her.
Speaker 1: New specials on HBO. Everybody needs to watch there as
Speaker 1: a new special. It's fucking so smart. You know what's
Speaker 1: so great about I was at her house to watch
Speaker 1: it because she didn't want to watch it. I was like,
Speaker 1: we're watching it with a group of people, like, this
Speaker 1: is your special. She hasn't had one in five years.
Speaker 1: So we went over there and a bunch of people
Speaker 1: came over and we sat there. And what's so special
Speaker 1: about Sarah is she's never talking about herself. Yeah, she's
Speaker 1: writing jokes like old school comedians, like some people. There's
Speaker 1: some people out there that do that, like Tig and
Speaker 1: zach Alifanakis and a couple of others. But most of
Speaker 1: us are just telling our stories, and Sarah is just
Speaker 1: writing jokes that are silly and brilliant at the same time.
Speaker 1: You know, she can make a fart joke brilliant she's
Speaker 1: so good.
Speaker 4: Did she come to New York already with her show?
Speaker 4: I missed it? How did I miss that? Did she come?
Speaker 1: She came to New York? She doesn't. She doesn't tour
Speaker 1: like I know. She very often, she hates it. She's
Speaker 1: a home She and I couldn't be any more different.
Speaker 4: I know. But do you know what I love about you? Guys?
Speaker 4: The two of you are so supportive of other comedian
Speaker 4: because I always see it in the comedian world. You
Speaker 4: all support each other, and so many times I feel
Speaker 4: like actors tear each other down. Sarah talks about you
Speaker 4: on her podcast all the time.
Speaker 5: You know that, don't know?
Speaker 1: No, I didn't know that.
Speaker 4: Oh that's so cute. Oh no, she does. She talks
Speaker 4: about you. I get so excited. I don't know why.
Speaker 4: I feel like the proud mom. I'm like, yeah, my
Speaker 4: girls love each other. But she does. She talks about
Speaker 4: you in a beautiful way, and she's just like she's
Speaker 4: so fucking look because people will call in with, you know,
Speaker 4: saying like I really want to be a comedian and
Speaker 4: I bet no da, And she's she's like, just you
Speaker 4: gotta just go do it. Look at my friend Chelsea
Speaker 4: she fucking she's just on the road. I'm not like that.
Speaker 4: I can't do that, Chelsea. Just the two of you
Speaker 4: support each other. I love it.
Speaker 1: So I once said to her, we're on this app,
Speaker 1: you know, this video app were we're always talking, and
Speaker 1: I said to her, I mean, we couldn't be more different.
Speaker 1: Like I love adventure, I love to go out. She
Speaker 1: wants she's a come over and we'll go for a hike.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't, Sarah, I hate hiking. Like I
Speaker 1: don't want a hike. I'm like, I'll come for the
Speaker 1: joint and the pool after skipped the hike part. But
Speaker 1: we've gotten to a place in our friendship where we
Speaker 1: both well, we've always been at this place kind of
Speaker 1: ever since we became friends, where we know each other
Speaker 1: and we know we have very little in common, but
Speaker 1: we managed to have a friendship. You know what I mean,
Speaker 1: We don't we're so dissimilar.
Speaker 4: But anyway, tian Yang, though, sometimes that really works.
Speaker 1: I know that does work. It works for me always. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we need to take a quick break and we'll be
Speaker 1: right back, and we're back.
Speaker 2: We're back. I have an update from Juliana's last appearance.
Speaker 1: With us, So what's happening already?
Speaker 2: Yes, this was from one of our last episodes with
Speaker 2: you had a title that was about red Flags. This
Speaker 2: is our Red Flags girl, so Renee says, Hi, Chelsea
Speaker 2: and Catherine and Juliana, here's an update on the red
Speaker 2: Flags saga. The day I listened to the episode, I
Speaker 2: had a calm chat with my partner about my concerns
Speaker 2: and need for change. I told him I was ready
Speaker 2: to walk away if he felt he didn't want to
Speaker 2: improve as an individual and a partner. He said he'd
Speaker 2: go to a counselor with no hesitations. Within a week,
Speaker 2: we were lucky enough to get in with a recommended counselor.
Speaker 2: He speaks openly and honestly, and even showed vulnerability. I'm
Speaker 2: so proud of him. We've been four times and I
Speaker 2: feel like this has already changed the dynamics of our relationship.
Speaker 2: We've gained a different perspective of each other's history, learned
Speaker 2: more about ourselves, and have become more nurturing regarding each
Speaker 2: other's needs. We're completely honest with each other no matter
Speaker 2: how sensitive the topic is. Calmly discuss our thoughts and
Speaker 2: feelings while supporting one another. I feel more secure now
Speaker 2: than I've ever been, and this has given my partner
Speaker 2: the opportunity to show me how much I mean to him.
Speaker 2: The man's heart is like an onion, so many layers,
Speaker 2: but the counselor and I are slowly learning how he
Speaker 2: tries to hide his strong emotions. Turns out he thinks
Speaker 2: and feels a whole lot more than he's letting on.
Speaker 2: Thankscals for giving me the kick up the ass I needed.
Speaker 2: I feel at peace in my relationship now and in
Speaker 2: our future together. Today we celebrate five years together and
Speaker 2: one hundred days until we leave for our big trip.
Speaker 2: Habby Travels and keep your ears peeled for the Aussie
Speaker 2: accent in Majorca. Next year it could be us with love, Renee.
Speaker 4: Got you know this is going to tie into your
Speaker 4: episode with a Lease Lonan and her book which I'm
Speaker 4: reading right now. It's really heavy duty. It also ties
Speaker 4: into a book I read when I found out I
Speaker 4: was having a boy, because I'm only like no girls,
Speaker 4: so I didn't understand, like, how am I going to
Speaker 4: raise a boy to be a human, empathetic, feeling person
Speaker 4: with a pinis? And this book that I read called
Speaker 4: Raising Caine was by these two psychologists who deal with
Speaker 4: difficult teenage kids, and they said, you know, children, boys
Speaker 4: at a very young age are taught not to cry
Speaker 4: be a man. They're three and they're on the playground
Speaker 4: and they're kids, and they're immediately taught to hide their feelings.
Speaker 4: And I think, and that's what Elise was talking about,
Speaker 4: and she talks about it in her book, how men
Speaker 4: grow up to be afraid of their feelings because they
Speaker 4: were taught that from a very young age. Your boy,
Speaker 4: don't cry. It's such bullshit where girls when they cry
Speaker 4: are hugged. So we grow up and we're emotional, you know,
Speaker 4: like it can be these emotional rollercoasters. But men swallow, swallow,
Speaker 4: swallow until they implode, and so it takes therapy. I'm
Speaker 4: so happy to hear that that she got well. She
Speaker 4: didn't seem to get him into therapy. He did it willingly.
Speaker 4: It's probably a relief for him, right.
Speaker 1: Remind me what those red flags were.
Speaker 2: They'd been together a few years, but he'd like randomly
Speaker 2: broken up with her out of the blue a couple
Speaker 2: of times in there, and they were trying to make
Speaker 2: plans for their future.
Speaker 4: I remember this yeah, they were going to go hiking
Speaker 4: or something.
Speaker 2: Right, They were going on like a mountain climbing trip
Speaker 2: around the world for like a year, and he was
Speaker 2: like keeping secrets from her. She felt really fishy about it,
Speaker 2: and we were like, these are huge red flags. Try therapy,
Speaker 2: but it's probably over with and sounds like he's unburdening
Speaker 2: himself and getting in touch with his emotions.
Speaker 1: There are so many men in my life that I
Speaker 1: wish we're just you know, so many of my friends'
Speaker 1: husbands or it's so nice when a man is self
Speaker 1: actualized and self aware and is interested in doing the
Speaker 1: work on themselves. Who isn't like I can't do that.
Speaker 1: I can't, I don't want to go to therapy. So
Speaker 1: many men are like that. It's like it's so old
Speaker 1: fashioned at this point.
Speaker 4: I think it's because they're just afraid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't want to face that.
Speaker 4: And also I think, you know, changing your habits is
Speaker 4: so difficult, and when you have grown up a certain
Speaker 4: way and lived a certain kind of life, it's very
Speaker 4: scary to have to undo that. Yes, and that's what
Speaker 4: therapy does. Always say to my husband, I'm like, oh, so,
Speaker 4: how is so and so with their new girlfriend and
Speaker 4: he's like, I don't. We don't talk about that. It's like,
Speaker 4: how do you not talk about that? Like it would
Speaker 4: be the we mean my girlfriends, that's what we talk
Speaker 4: about all the time, Like I ask, and you know,
Speaker 4: but they don't communicate the same way women do. It's
Speaker 4: just a different way.
Speaker 1: I was out with a gay guy friend the other
Speaker 1: night for and he was talking to me about it.
Speaker 1: He's going through a difficult time and he's like, I
Speaker 1: went to therapy. He's like, I don't like it. I
Speaker 1: don't like it. And I said, well, I know. I
Speaker 1: bet you don't because a lot of stuff comes up.
Speaker 1: But it's necessary work because otherwise it will tap you
Speaker 1: on the shoulder when you least expect it and it's
Speaker 1: going to take you down. There is no way to
Speaker 1: escape it, right, like your trauma, whatever it is, you
Speaker 1: have to discuss it because you can't get away from it.
Speaker 1: And I said, if you can't go to the therapist,
Speaker 1: at least pursue keep pursuing it until you find somebody.
Speaker 1: And he said, I gotta be honest. All of this
Speaker 1: talk just makes me uncomfortable, like I don't want to
Speaker 1: talk about it, and he revealed to me that he
Speaker 1: had been molested when he was younger. So it's such
Speaker 1: a deep programming. It's run so deep.
Speaker 2: Anyway, on that note, our first caller, I thought would
Speaker 2: be a good question for Juliana, since you're a New
Speaker 2: Yorker and you are familiar with what life is like
Speaker 2: when you're all living on top of each other in
Speaker 2: a big city.
Speaker 1: So beautiful and the beautiful sunny New York smoke Felts
Speaker 1: smoke free smoke sky day, Well Canada, I mean.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 2: Chelsea sent me a picture. It looks like the apocalypse.
Speaker 2: Stephanie says, Dear Chelsea, My husband and I bought a
Speaker 2: condo a few years ago, and our building has four units,
Speaker 2: so pretty small. All the neighbors were fine when we
Speaker 2: first moved in, but a few years ago, the daughter
Speaker 2: of someone who lives in a nearby unit, not the
Speaker 2: person who owns the unit lives there, but his daughter
Speaker 2: got to move in for free with her husband, and
Speaker 2: the husband is awful. She goes on to talk about
Speaker 2: how the husband moved her laundry one time and it
Speaker 2: escalated into a screaming match and he told her to
Speaker 2: go fuck herself. He screams at his wife on a
Speaker 2: regular basis, but she hasn't called the police. She says,
Speaker 2: living next to the sky gives me extreme anxiety, and
Speaker 2: I absolutely hate it. My husband wants to confront him,
Speaker 2: but I don't think that would end well for him
Speaker 2: or us. There's other stuff about how he's complained about
Speaker 2: their dog, even though his dogs bark all the time.
Speaker 2: He's complained about another neighbor who has a daycare, but
Speaker 2: it's not very loud. So she says, my question is
Speaker 2: what should we do about this asshole? And Stephanie is
Speaker 2: here with us.
Speaker 4: Oh, hi, Stephanie, Hi, Stephanie.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that you're dealing with all of that. What
Speaker 1: a nightmare.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not exactly ideal, especially since we had a
Speaker 3: baby seven months ago, so to be bring that on
Speaker 3: top of having a baby.
Speaker 4: Can I ask you something? Are you are the walls thin?
Speaker 4: Can you hear him? Can you you can? Oh?
Speaker 3: I don't want to hear him, but like I can't
Speaker 3: help it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, God, yeah, this is I mean, this is New York.
Speaker 4: This is the you know the big problem with New York.
Speaker 4: I think you're right you and your husband not to
Speaker 4: say anything because it sounds like he's a little unhinged,
Speaker 4: and I think you need to be careful. But you know,
Speaker 4: I have this motto I live by, which is kill
Speaker 4: him with kindness. What if you go out and buy
Speaker 4: some cookies and leave them with a note hope your
Speaker 4: day gets better every day? Maybe just keep leaving sweet
Speaker 4: things and kill him with kindness.
Speaker 3: During my resting bitch face, because.
Speaker 4: Because it's just going to make you more and more angry,
Speaker 4: and it's gonna make him more. It looks like he's
Speaker 4: looking for a fight. Yeah, yeah, if he's screaming, I
Speaker 4: didn't quite understand the laundry thing. He moved moved your
Speaker 4: laundry and screamed at you what happened with the laundry?
Speaker 3: He so, we have one washer and one dryer, and
Speaker 3: he accused me of stopping his dryer so that his
Speaker 3: clothes were like soaking wet, which is I wouldn't even
Speaker 3: think nobody.
Speaker 1: Would he by the way, nobody fucking would.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I had this like dumb look on my face as
Speaker 3: he's yelling and screaming at me, and I think that
Speaker 3: pissed him off even more. But I genuinely like had
Speaker 3: no idea what the hell he was talking.
Speaker 4: About, Yeah, it sounds like he's rearin for a fight,
Speaker 4: and I think the best way to quash that is
Speaker 4: to not give him one.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that is actually very very advice, none that
Speaker 1: I would ever give you. And I am on Juliana's
Speaker 1: team right now. I think that's great because people like
Speaker 1: that you're right there and they're so unhinged that they
Speaker 1: have a whole narrative going in their mind about what
Speaker 1: they think is happening. And if you just keep showing
Speaker 1: like at some point, the levee has to break with
Speaker 1: kindness because you can't argue by yourself.
Speaker 4: It's so true. And I just know this from being
Speaker 4: you know, I'm an actress and I'm very passionate about things,
Speaker 4: and sometimes I like a good argument. And I married
Speaker 4: a guy who does not like to fight. Ever, and
Speaker 4: I realize I'll say, you know what, blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 4: and he goes, oh, I hear you, honey, I hear you.
Speaker 4: That will never happen again. I have nowhere to go.
Speaker 4: It's over, you know what I mean. And of course
Speaker 4: we've been together seventeen years, so now I'm so appreciative
Speaker 4: of it because it's such a better state of mind
Speaker 4: to be in. It's like, oh, I don't need to
Speaker 4: keep this going. We can just have a peaceful, lovely day.
Speaker 4: So I have learned from that not giving ammunition gives
Speaker 4: them nowhere to go. And eventually he's going to realize
Speaker 4: that he can't. He sounds like an angry guy if
Speaker 4: he's yelling at his wife too, you hear that or
Speaker 4: girlfriend whatever, Yeah, but it sounds like he's looking for
Speaker 4: a fight, and so if he can't take it out
Speaker 4: on her, he's going to take it out on you
Speaker 4: or your husband or whatever. But just smile, you know,
Speaker 4: and if he says, oh, your dog was barking, you
Speaker 4: just be like, oh, I heard yours barking too. I know,
Speaker 4: crazy New York, right. You know, kill him with kindness,
Speaker 4: because also it'll make you feel better. Like my objective
Speaker 4: here is I want you to feel better. I don't
Speaker 4: really care about him. Yeah, it'll make you feel better,
Speaker 4: and you're just taking the high road, and he's not
Speaker 4: going to know what to do with himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of my girlfriends says, you know, if somebody
Speaker 2: is like that, they're yelling at you and there's nothing
Speaker 2: to do about it. You just say okay, well what else?
Speaker 2: And you just whatever they yell at you say okay,
Speaker 2: what else? And eventually one, yes, one's a good one.
Speaker 1: I like this all the advice. I love this. I
Speaker 1: love this, but more importantly what Juliana said, how it's
Speaker 1: going to make you feel better, Like I decided a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, and I have reminders too, like
Speaker 1: whenever something is not going my way or not the
Speaker 1: way I want it to go, I just have to
Speaker 1: overcome it with my attitude to have a positive attitude.
Speaker 1: And when you do that, it is infectious to other people.
Speaker 1: People feel your vibe and they pick up on it.
Speaker 1: And it's obviously not going to happen right away, but
Speaker 1: it's gonna make your mental state so much more, like
Speaker 1: at a higher frequency, instead of letting him drag you down,
Speaker 1: you're pulling him up, you know what I mean by that?
Speaker 1: And also everybody in your building by looking at it
Speaker 1: and going at it from Juliana's angle, is kind of genius.
Speaker 1: It's kind of the best way to treat him because
Speaker 1: he's a child.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's when he confronted me about the laundry thing
Speaker 3: and was screaming at me and he was screaming at me,
Speaker 3: but like walking away with his back face to me,
Speaker 3: and I told him to grow up because he looked
Speaker 3: like a toddler having a temper tangent, and he told
Speaker 3: me to go back myself.
Speaker 4: So she didn't like that, You know it? Oh God.
Speaker 1: It's also you know that feeling you get when this
Speaker 1: happened to me. Recently, I talked about my plane ride
Speaker 1: where I had to confront these two racists. But you
Speaker 1: know that feeling you get in your heart where you're
Speaker 1: arguing with a stranger like you can't That is the
Speaker 1: most unpleasant feeling, and you want to get to the
Speaker 1: opposite of what that feeling is.
Speaker 4: It's also unpredictable, Like it's one thing to argue with
Speaker 4: a friend or a boyfriend or a husband because you
Speaker 4: know them, yes, but when it's a stranger, you actually
Speaker 4: don't know how they're going to react. And the state
Speaker 4: of our world right now. I always say to my kid,
Speaker 4: not that he's a chill kid, but I'm always like,
Speaker 4: you never know who has a gun? Just walk away? Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know road rage? When people have road rage. I'm
Speaker 4: always like, so, what is this going to get me?
Speaker 4: If I flip the finger a bullet in my head.
Speaker 4: Maybe I just don't want to deal. It's not worth
Speaker 4: it. It's just not worth it. Kill him with kindness. Maybe
Speaker 4: that'll spread on who knows.
Speaker 1: I bet you it will. I bet you you'll infect him,
Speaker 1: You'll infect his family. Like if you just hit it
Speaker 1: up and be consistent about it. I know it's not
Speaker 1: your responsibility, but why not, you know, why not just
Speaker 1: be why not take this on as an experiment, you know,
Speaker 1: for human behavior.
Speaker 4: And you may need to practice some breathing when you
Speaker 4: when you want to scream and he's or you hear him.
Speaker 3: Well, like, I'm actually I'm a chill person, So I
Speaker 3: would rather kill him with kind like that's actually more
Speaker 3: my alley. It's not like me to like be a
Speaker 3: bit and ignore people like.
Speaker 4: That, But Bacon Brown, I don't know.
Speaker 3: What else to do. I'm also really shy, so the
Speaker 3: ignoring him is also easier.
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, I think there's some people in life
Speaker 4: who just wake up in the morning looking for a fight,
Speaker 4: and those are toxic people. You don't need that. And
Speaker 4: he's already too close to you, guys in the apartment
Speaker 4: next door, so put the distance and draw your circle, right,
Speaker 4: that Buddhist thing. Here's my circle. You can't come in it.
Speaker 4: I'm hearing my boundary.
Speaker 1: Up and here are your cookies.
Speaker 4: And here are your cookies.
Speaker 1: This is my circle, and here are your cookies there
Speaker 1: outside of my fucking circle. Now eat one and shut up, asshole.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, good luck.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Bye bye. Well, I'm retiring and you're gonna take over.
Speaker 1: Because I was just sitting there watching you, falling more
Speaker 1: in love with you. I was like, oh, Juliana, I
Speaker 1: would never even been thought of that.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: I was like, who's gonna deal with this? Asshole? Am
Speaker 1: I gonna have to go down there?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: Our next caller has I think a very interesting issue.
Speaker 2: Her name is Rita Dear Chelsea. I'm a thirty three
Speaker 2: year old married mother of two. I've always been an
Speaker 2: incredibly independent and self sufficient person. I worked my ass
Speaker 2: off to buy my first house at age twenty three,
Speaker 2: and since then worked to continue to build my career
Speaker 2: and succeed financially while also doing ninety percent of the
Speaker 2: childcare and household tasks. From a young age, I knew
Speaker 2: I had no interest in getting married. I thought if
Speaker 2: I ever did decide I wanted kids, I would adopt
Speaker 2: on my own or use a sperm donor. However, I
Speaker 2: was twenty five when I met my now husband and
Speaker 2: got swept up in love and societal norms and happily
Speaker 2: married him and completely ignored everything I'd previously known to
Speaker 2: be true about myself. Now I'm in this marriage with
Speaker 2: a man who is emotionally unavailable, and I feel completely alone.
Speaker 2: I look at my kids and my life, and I
Speaker 2: know without a doubt that I could do it all
Speaker 2: without him. But what do I do? I think I'd
Speaker 2: be happier alone, But how do I know that isn't
Speaker 2: just the grass is always greener mentality. I hate that
Speaker 2: I hold most of the work and responsibility, but then
Speaker 2: have to answer to a man for everything I do.
Speaker 2: Do I blow up my whole life and my kids'
Speaker 2: lives for the selfish reason that I just no longer
Speaker 2: want to deal with a man. I keep daydreaming about
Speaker 2: taking my kids and leaving everything behind. Please help kindly, Rita.
Speaker 1: Wo hi Rida, oh read us in her car Ritas
Speaker 1: we have Juliana Marguleay's is our guest today.
Speaker 4: Here for you, Hi Rita.
Speaker 5: Oh wow, so nice to meet you guys.
Speaker 4: Hi, Hi, Hi?
Speaker 2: Are you pulled over? Are you stabbed somewhere?
Speaker 5: I am Catherine Notes, I'm always driving.
Speaker 4: What do you do? What is your career?
Speaker 5: I'm a therapist?
Speaker 4: You're yeah, Chelse, you want to take this one? I
Speaker 4: mean I have a million.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about your relationship first. Have you ever suggested
Speaker 1: going to therapy? Is he completely I gets that? Or
Speaker 1: is he open to that?
Speaker 5: I have suggested it. He wanted to go on his own,
Speaker 5: so that was fine, but then he went one time
Speaker 5: and then wouldn't go back. Kind of said like he
Speaker 5: thought one time was enough and then he's done with it.
Speaker 4: People hate sitting in I know, I know.
Speaker 5: And he won't talk to me, so I think that's
Speaker 5: that was the reason I suggested it. And he won't
Speaker 5: connect or discuss things with me, So I thought, okay,
Speaker 5: well you need to talk to somebody.
Speaker 1: And have you expressed how you feel to him as
Speaker 1: well as you can?
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think the challenge is, you know, we just
Speaker 5: have the same conversation over and over and over again,
Speaker 5: and then we never get anywhere.
Speaker 4: Okay, how many children do you have?
Speaker 5: Two? Two?
Speaker 4: And how old are they?
Speaker 5: Two? And five?
Speaker 4: Oh? Boy? Can I ask you this, have you fallen
Speaker 4: out of love with him?
Speaker 5: I think I've fallen out of like I don't really
Speaker 5: like him as a person right now, but love him
Speaker 5: as a husband and a father. If that makes sense.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's actually I think it's very clear. I mean,
Speaker 4: I think it's really hard not to like the person
Speaker 4: you're married to, harder than not loving them. Honestly, It's
Speaker 4: so interesting because we're multitaskers. Women are just naturally multitaskers.
Speaker 4: You know, we know how to do things and get
Speaker 4: things done, you know. They what's the saying give a
Speaker 4: busy woman a task and will get done? Is that
Speaker 4: the saying something like that? Right, give a busy woman,
Speaker 4: it's pretty Ask a busy woman a favor and it'll
Speaker 4: get done because they know how to schedule it. Like
Speaker 4: women are like, oh and then I have to do
Speaker 4: that and that and that. Like women are very we're
Speaker 4: multitaskers by nature. But I would never because your children
Speaker 4: are so young, I would never say just get up
Speaker 4: and go. But I also would never say stay in
Speaker 4: something where you're going to resent your children ultimately because
Speaker 4: you stayed there for them, right, your children will end
Speaker 4: up hating you for the fact that you stayed in
Speaker 4: a loveless marriage. But from what you're saying, there's love there.
Speaker 4: But I think have you ever said to him, honey,
Speaker 4: I'm at a place where I'm thinking of getting up
Speaker 4: and going. The only thing that will work here is honesty. No,
Speaker 4: I haven't see his reaction. Maybe he doesn't know how
Speaker 4: bad it is. It sounds like he doesn't.
Speaker 1: They don't know how bad it is until it's too late.
Speaker 1: That's what happens in all these marriages. The men do
Speaker 1: not want to see they don't want to face it.
Speaker 1: And of course it's so funny that you said that.
Speaker 1: My girlfriend went to therapy once and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the therapist told us we didn't need to come back.
Speaker 1: I go, oh, really, is that what she said? You
Speaker 1: fucking lit her like that is that is? She's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she didn't think we needed to see her again. I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. Talk about not wanting to face your issues.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about it in a more practical sense.
Speaker 1: Are you abled financially? If you were to decide to
Speaker 1: leave right there are some steps to take before. Obviously
Speaker 1: you you do get up and leave, But if you
Speaker 1: wanted to leave, what would that look like.
Speaker 5: Oh gosh, I mean financially, I think it would be fine. Family,
Speaker 5: it would, I said this to Catherine, like it would
Speaker 5: kind of just blow everything up. Our families are all
Speaker 5: very close around us. We see them all the time.
Speaker 5: It's we depend on like family for different things. And
Speaker 5: that's kind of my conundrum. It's like everything else in
Speaker 5: my life is great except for him. So do you
Speaker 5: blow up everything for that?
Speaker 4: Not yet. You can't blow it all up yet because
Speaker 4: you haven't tried. First. You haven't been fair to him
Speaker 4: by telling him you're at the end here until he
Speaker 4: knows exactly what's going on. So you're making up your
Speaker 4: own narrative and he's making up his own narrative, but
Speaker 4: you're not on the same page. And until you sit
Speaker 4: down with him and say, honey, I love you, but
Speaker 4: you need to know what I'm feeling. I'm feeling like
Speaker 4: grabbing these kids and getting the fuck out of here
Speaker 4: because I feel very alone. I don't want to do that,
Speaker 4: but I'm letting you know. If this continues and we
Speaker 4: don't start talking and communicating and you start helping and
Speaker 4: we go to therapy together to discuss this, I'm gone.
Speaker 4: They understand that, but he doesn't know you're thinking of
Speaker 4: what you're thinking. He has no idea.
Speaker 1: And also the key sentence is to make sure you
Speaker 1: impress upon him how alone you feel, because you shouldn't
Speaker 1: feel alone. You know you're in a marriage. What's the
Speaker 1: point of being in a marriage if you feel that way?
Speaker 1: So there are you do have to have a conversation
Speaker 1: with him. But on a more practical level, I just
Speaker 1: want to say a couple of things about like you
Speaker 1: blowing up your family, You're not blowing up your family.
Speaker 1: You have to take care of yourself for the sake
Speaker 1: of your children. You need to be healthy, you need
Speaker 1: to be happy, and you need to be fulfilled to
Speaker 1: raise healthy, happy children. That's what is the most important thing.
Speaker 1: And worrying about what everybody else is the impact and
Speaker 1: the ripple effect that it's going to have on everyone else.
Speaker 1: When you're just protecting yourself, it's not like you're abusing
Speaker 1: someone or doing drugs or you're an addict, you know,
Speaker 1: and you're blowing something up. You're blowing something up in
Speaker 1: your mind because you're going to be taking care of yourself.
Speaker 1: That's not blowing everything up. People adjust and acclimate to
Speaker 1: things all day long. People are dealing with new situations
Speaker 1: in family dynamics every single day.
Speaker 4: And kids are resilient.
Speaker 1: Yes, And all these people who I stay together for
Speaker 1: the children, I stay together for the children. And your
Speaker 1: child's going to grow up and get in the same
Speaker 1: dynamic that you were in that you modeled for them.
Speaker 1: So financially, if you're capable, you're free, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Like so many people don't have that. They
Speaker 1: don't have the financial freedom to leave. So I'm not
Speaker 1: saying to just get up and walk out the door. Yes,
Speaker 1: you should have a conversation with him. There needs to
Speaker 1: be more of a commitment than one therapy session. You
Speaker 1: have to go to couple's therapy, and if he has
Speaker 1: to go on his own, he has to go on
Speaker 1: his own, And if he's not willing.
Speaker 4: To do that, then you go to the next step.
Speaker 4: Then you can leave, and then you can leave feeling
Speaker 4: good about your decision.
Speaker 1: And you should leave at that point.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think you're sort of throwing the baby
Speaker 4: out with the bathwater because you're not. He's not on
Speaker 4: the same page as you. Yet. Once he knows, you
Speaker 4: owe it to yourself to tell him how you're feeling.
Speaker 4: You know what, you have nothing to lose because you're
Speaker 4: already out the door, right, you have one foot out
Speaker 4: the door. You're already thinking of the consequences of what's
Speaker 4: going to happen when you leave, and he doesn't even
Speaker 4: know you're thinking of leaving, So you have nothing to
Speaker 4: lose by saying I need to talk to you. You
Speaker 4: and I get a babysitter, go out to dinner so
Speaker 4: no one can raise their voices in the restaurant.
Speaker 1: Hmmm, oh god, you're full of it today. I love it.
Speaker 1: Got such a good stuff going.
Speaker 4: But it does help, you know, because you have the
Speaker 4: boundaries of a restaurant, right, and be empathetic to him. Listen,
Speaker 4: men are limited. I'm not saying let him get away
Speaker 4: with anything. I'm saying, talk to him as if he
Speaker 4: knows absolutely nothing, and say I've never been lonelier in
Speaker 4: my life. I don't know if you've noticed. I cannot
Speaker 4: bear feeling like ninety percent of the responsibilities of this
Speaker 4: family and our livelihood is on me. I am fine
Speaker 4: to leave this marriage and go out on my own.
Speaker 4: I'll be fine, I'll take care of the kids. Fine,
Speaker 4: But if you want me and the kids in your life.
Speaker 4: You need to know what's going on. Then if he
Speaker 4: is just such a douchebag that he doesn't even respond
Speaker 4: to that, or or thinks it's going to go away,
Speaker 4: and you need to say that to him, you can
Speaker 4: say this isn't going away by the conversation ending. I
Speaker 4: often think in relationships they're like, oh, yeah, hurt, I
Speaker 4: sat through it. I nodded my head, and now we're fine. No,
Speaker 4: this isn't going away. We need to work on it
Speaker 4: tomorrow and the day after tomorrow. And then if it
Speaker 4: doesn't work, you wipe off your hands and you go,
Speaker 4: I gave it my all. And you look at your children.
Speaker 4: You have boys girls, a boy.
Speaker 5: And a girl, A boy and a girl.
Speaker 4: What a great example to set for your children to say,
Speaker 4: mommy wasn't happy. It wasn't working. Daddy, he's not happy either.
Speaker 4: How can he be happy if he's with someone who's
Speaker 4: never felt lonelier And you've got to be def dumb
Speaker 4: and blind not to take that in.
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people are expecting to
Speaker 1: be happy. Quite frankly. They think life is like going
Speaker 1: to work, coming home, drinking a beer, going to sleep.
Speaker 1: You know, like they're not engaged in their life and
Speaker 1: you seem like somebody who is, so like, you can't
Speaker 1: give that gift away, you know what I mean, and
Speaker 1: just throw it, throw it away and not live your life.
Speaker 1: You have the potential to be in love in the
Speaker 1: way that you want to be in love with a man,
Speaker 1: and he just has to be aware of that. And
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes people don't react in the moment, but
Speaker 1: once they have a couple of days to think about it,
Speaker 1: there is a different reaction. So I like, I would
Speaker 1: be very vehement about starting therapy, figuring out, like finding
Speaker 1: a therapist that you guys can go start talking to
Speaker 1: and say like, that's the only way I'm willing to stay.
Speaker 1: I think we have a lot to uncover and work
Speaker 1: together if you want to save this marriage. And if
Speaker 1: you don't, also, that's okay, right, no problem, Like, yes,
Speaker 1: this is going to be disruptive, but if you don't,
Speaker 1: I can't. I'm not going to make you do anything.
Speaker 4: And you can say I don't like you right now,
Speaker 4: I don't like you. I love you, But why am
Speaker 4: I not liking you? Why have you become complacent in
Speaker 4: our life? I'm not saying we should all live in
Speaker 4: some fluffy cloud where every day is like, oh it's
Speaker 4: a blessing because it's hard and raising two children is
Speaker 4: hard and working every day it's hard. But if you
Speaker 4: don't have the other side of that, which is fine
Speaker 4: and then laughter and enjoyment and great sex and you know,
Speaker 4: then why stay in it?
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think you guys are bang on. Like I
Speaker 5: think he doesn't think that happiness is important, Like he
Speaker 5: kind of thinks like, oh, yeah, this is life, Like
Speaker 5: this is the daily slug and like you just do
Speaker 5: it and it doesn't matter if we're friends or we
Speaker 5: have fun together, we laugh together. It's just like this
Speaker 5: is we just have to get through it and there
Speaker 5: maybe there will be better times ahead kind of thing.
Speaker 4: That's really depressing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is depressing, But I think you're right. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people feel that way. It's just
Speaker 1: a grind and they're just getting from one point. I
Speaker 1: heard a couple the other day saying as soon as
Speaker 1: they have a two and a four year old, and
Speaker 1: they're like, as soon as they grow up, then we're
Speaker 1: free again. I'm like, you're saying that when they're two,
Speaker 1: and why do you even have fucking children? Right, you know,
Speaker 1: free again. You're never going to be free from your children,
Speaker 1: first of all.
Speaker 4: So also there's just saying that my husband and I
Speaker 4: say to each other all the time.
Speaker 1: Give a woman in an errand and she got no.
Speaker 4: Which is happy parents', happy baby. And I really strongly
Speaker 4: believe that. And when we had our kid, we made
Speaker 4: sure one night a week the two of us had
Speaker 4: dinner together, no matter what, no matter what. I mean,
Speaker 4: I was like hunched over from a c section, and
Speaker 4: I was determined to have that date. I was like,
Speaker 4: We're gonna go and have dinner just the two of
Speaker 4: us and go away on little trips whenever we could,
Speaker 4: when we could get his parents to come and stay
Speaker 4: with the kid, Like you need to celebrate you because
Speaker 4: when those kids see happy parents, they feel secure and
Speaker 4: safe and happy. Believe me, they feel what you're feeling.
Speaker 4: They might not show it, it seeps in and they
Speaker 4: feel the tension in the marriage. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think I almost like avoidant of date nights now
Speaker 5: because they're so uncomfortable and like we have nothing to
Speaker 5: talk about and it's not like a fun night out.
Speaker 4: Maybe start there, Yeah, say to him, when was the
Speaker 4: last time you took me out to dinner. When was
Speaker 4: the last time you and I decided to go see
Speaker 4: a movie and hold hands? Start with the little things.
Speaker 4: You can't do it all in one day, but you've
Speaker 4: got to give it a chance, and then to see
Speaker 4: to make sure you have nothing to feel guilty about. Nothing.
Speaker 4: You are obviously a successful, independent woman. That is awesome.
Speaker 4: He should worship you. But with that also makes a
Speaker 4: lot of men. I you know, I don't mean to
Speaker 4: sound like I'm man bashing, but a lot of men
Speaker 4: are insecure when they are with an independent, strong woman.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: Wait, wait till you get to fifty, sister, you're going
Speaker 4: to be like, No, don't like that. Don't like that.
Speaker 4: Like the older you get, the more sure of yourself
Speaker 4: you are, you know. But I do believe that if
Speaker 4: you are true to yourself, you need to be true
Speaker 4: to him first so that you can live your truth
Speaker 4: and know that you did the right thing. And he
Speaker 4: might surprise you. You never know, and he might not,
Speaker 4: but you may as well find out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you should just change that framework
Speaker 1: that you have in your mind blowing up your family,
Speaker 1: blowing up your family, change that to saving your family.
Speaker 1: You're saving your kids from a life of that and
Speaker 1: a cycle. You know, we don't see what we're doing
Speaker 1: in our lives, but there's intergenerational trauma for a reason,
Speaker 1: like your kids will perpetuate that most likely, not that
Speaker 1: it's like a cycle of abuse, but it's a cycle
Speaker 1: of unhappiness. Why be unhappy? There's you know, we're only
Speaker 1: here for a short time. You got to get after it, girl,
Speaker 1: Like you need to get after it. So get after
Speaker 1: your marriage and see what you can do there. And
Speaker 1: if you can't figure it out, then you have to
Speaker 1: get after it on your own.
Speaker 4: Live your life. Also, you don't know what your family
Speaker 4: around you is thinking. Either you don't know, you may leave,
Speaker 4: and then your mom's like, oh thank god, honey, I
Speaker 4: couldn't say anything because you were you never know, you know,
Speaker 4: don't make it. So don't you think other people are
Speaker 4: judging or saying anything. You don't live in their heads.
Speaker 4: You live in your head, and your head's the only
Speaker 4: one you need to worry about.
Speaker 1: Like, can I ask you a question? And this is
Speaker 1: mostly just for our listeners, because I'm sure a lot
Speaker 1: of people are like, oh, sounds like me, what is
Speaker 1: your life like? When he gets home for work, or
Speaker 1: when you get home from work at night, Like what
Speaker 1: is the communication?
Speaker 5: Like, there's zero communication, Like if we even say like
Speaker 5: hello to each other, that would be a special day.
Speaker 5: And it's mostly because like the kids are just on
Speaker 5: top of me all the time, Like they just pick
Speaker 5: me over him every single time, and so I can't,
Speaker 5: like I can't speak to him or have a conversation.
Speaker 5: So then like we kind of just go our separate
Speaker 5: ways and I deal with the kids and he does whatever.
Speaker 1: What does he do?
Speaker 5: Well, he does work a lot, so he often doesn't
Speaker 5: come home for dinner or bedtime. So if he's there,
Speaker 5: then he would like kind of hang around and have
Speaker 5: dinner with us or read the newspaper or whatever. But
Speaker 5: if he's not there, then I just go through the routine.
Speaker 4: Is he an old man.
Speaker 5: At heart?
Speaker 4: Yeah? At heart.
Speaker 1: You don't think he's having an affair though, do you.
Speaker 5: I don't. I think there's potential, but it's almost it's
Speaker 5: it's kind of sad because I almost have had these before,
Speaker 5: Like oh if he did, I wouldn't care because I'm
Speaker 5: just like that disconnected.
Speaker 4: I've been there. I've been there. I remember I was
Speaker 4: with this guy I had fantasies of coming home and
Speaker 4: catching him in bed with another woman so I could leave.
Speaker 4: But that's because I was too scared to leave. You know,
Speaker 4: you need to confront him with the truth. The truth ultimately,
Speaker 4: will say, I know, but it will set you free.
Speaker 1: Well done. If you give a busy woman an errand
Speaker 1: she'll get it done, and then the truth will also
Speaker 1: set you free. Okay, did everybody hear that? You can
Speaker 1: read more about Juliana's dysfunctional relationship in Sunshine Girl, where
Speaker 1: she really talked about it.
Speaker 4: Talk about it.
Speaker 1: After I read that book, I had to find out
Speaker 1: who the X was, so I looked it up right away.
Speaker 1: But anyway, to you, you are full of life. Yeah
Speaker 1: you are, Vibrett, you know what I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: your fate.
Speaker 4: You're like you are. She's like, yeah, you want to
Speaker 4: go live life. You're the best to do. Can I
Speaker 4: ask how many years you've lived? How old do you?
Speaker 5: Thirty three?
Speaker 1: I mean you are like, yeah, You've got a whole
Speaker 1: other section ahead of you, a few sections actually.
Speaker 4: And you shouldn't waste it for a minute on not
Speaker 4: celebrating who you are and showing your kids that, Like,
Speaker 4: I just truly believe that you owe it to yourself
Speaker 4: and your children to be happy.
Speaker 1: Have you confided to any of your family members?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 1: No, nothing?
Speaker 4: Well, now do any of them listen to your child?
Speaker 1: That's why she used an alias. Oh okay, and we
Speaker 1: won't be using her image. Yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 4: Talk to him first. Have you talked to any of
Speaker 4: your friends about it or people who know who he is?
Speaker 5: Just like little things, but not to the full extent.
Speaker 4: But that's why you feel so lonely, honey, I know. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you're not sharing it, that's why you're feeling so lonely.
Speaker 5: But I also you know, if you are going to
Speaker 5: stay with the person, you don't want everyone around you
Speaker 5: to hate them either.
Speaker 1: No, but everybody has problems in their marriages, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like people. Everyone has to have a confidant,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be it's going to lighten the
Speaker 1: load for you as well, getting it off your chest,
Speaker 1: so to speak. You want to confide in people. People
Speaker 1: are there for you that you don't realize a lot
Speaker 1: of us want to like carry the burdens all by ourselves,
Speaker 1: and that's just not fair. You know, when you you
Speaker 1: need somebody to lean on, I guarantee you there's plenty
Speaker 1: of people that would welcome that in your life. So
Speaker 1: open that channel too.
Speaker 4: You don't have to sit there alone with it.
Speaker 1: Talk about how much you know how terrible he is.
Speaker 1: It's just that you feel alone and your marriage is
Speaker 1: definitely in a rut. You're not even communicating. He must
Speaker 1: feel that way, and I think you should tell him. Listen,
Speaker 1: even if you were having an affair, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: that I would care at this point.
Speaker 4: That's a great point. Yeah, tell him that. See how
Speaker 4: that makes him feel.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I will.
Speaker 4: You need to talk to him, and then you need
Speaker 4: to go and live your life on your terms. But
Speaker 4: you're not alone. Go talk to you must have girlfriends.
Speaker 4: You're so lovely. Go talk to your girlfriends.
Speaker 5: I do have girlfriends.
Speaker 4: Talk to them because it helps to get perspective for sure.
Speaker 1: For sure. Don't carry it alone. And then check in
Speaker 1: with us, okay in a few months, and let us
Speaker 1: we know what you're doing. If you guys got into therapy,
Speaker 1: if you're planning on leaving, what your plan is. But
Speaker 1: know that financial freedom is probably the most important ingredient
Speaker 1: in this equation, you know, because that means that you
Speaker 1: can leave if you want, and a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't have that privilege.
Speaker 5: Okay, thank you guys so much. It was so nice
Speaker 5: speaking with.
Speaker 4: Oh, it was a pleasure. Good luck, Yeah, good luck.
Speaker 1: You can do this.
Speaker 4: You've got this, go do it.
Speaker 5: Thank you, brave.
Speaker 4: You got it.
Speaker 1: Good Luye Bye, bye, thanks girls.
Speaker 5: Bye.
Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to take a quick break and then
Speaker 1: we're going to come back and wrap up with Juliana
Speaker 1: Margy Lee's.
Speaker 4: Oh, there's nothing worse than feeling alone in a relationship.
Speaker 1: I know my friend said this the other day. She
Speaker 1: was saying, well, she said it pretty publicly. I heard
Speaker 1: Gwynneth say on Gwyneth Paltrow was talking about.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, you don't need the Pealtrow, but go on, okay.
Speaker 1: Call her daddy this Alexandra Cooper podcast, and she was
Speaker 1: saying how she felt very alone in her marriage to
Speaker 1: Chris Martin, and I thought, how sad. You know, how
Speaker 1: sad to feel alone in a marriage? You know, you
Speaker 1: grow up. We are fed all of this bullshit. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have a very healthy marriage. You're one of my
Speaker 1: girlfriends that is in a normal, healthy relationship, and you
Speaker 1: want to spend your birthday with him, So there you go.
Speaker 1: But you grow up being fed this idea that we're
Speaker 1: going to meet Prince Charming and that we're gonna fall
Speaker 1: madly in love and all of these things, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna have kids and that's gonna just be one big
Speaker 1: rainbow after another. And it's like, well, that's ridiculous, and
Speaker 1: I don't know why we're being spoon fed that. It's
Speaker 1: just not realistic at all, and it doesn't take into
Speaker 1: account life, right.
Speaker 4: And it was interesting because when she was talking about
Speaker 4: in her letter, when she was like, I never wanted kids,
Speaker 4: I never wanted a husband. I'm independent, I'm you know,
Speaker 4: she's a career woman. She's got and then she fell
Speaker 4: in love, right, and in those love like when you're
Speaker 4: all in love and then the babies come, and then
Speaker 4: the fucking hard work comes and the sleepless nights and
Speaker 4: the exhaustion. Not to put people off, but the truth
Speaker 4: is it's not easy. It's just not it's easier. You know,
Speaker 4: I got married at forty, I got pregnant at forty.
Speaker 4: I suggest everybody do that because I had lived and learned.
Speaker 4: The reason I'm in a good marriage is because I
Speaker 4: was in terrible relationships for years and I vowed rather
Speaker 4: be alone than be with an asshole, And by the
Speaker 4: time I met my husband, I was like, I don't
Speaker 4: do this. I don't do that. Not to say I'm
Speaker 4: not flexible, but.
Speaker 1: You also make better decisions as you get older because
Speaker 1: of our experience. So the longer you can prolong getting
Speaker 1: married or having a child, the better.
Speaker 4: But I do think the biggest issue, and this is
Speaker 4: something that happens I think with much younger. You know,
Speaker 4: she's thirty three and she's worried about the families, what
Speaker 4: the outside families are going to think. When you get
Speaker 4: to my age, you don't give a fuck exactly, Like
Speaker 4: you're not You're not in my shoes and you're not
Speaker 4: in my bed.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's so silly to consider other people
Speaker 1: really at all when you're dealing with a breakup. No,
Speaker 1: unless it's just so silly because it's like, that's not
Speaker 1: what it's about, right, Juliana, I'm going to see you
Speaker 1: again in about an hour.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we have an early dinner before our theater date
Speaker 4: and so fun. I love doing your show.
Speaker 1: Thank you for the sagacious advice today. You were amazing.
Speaker 1: You really really were just blowing me away. I didn't
Speaker 1: even know what to say.
Speaker 4: I just love a girlfriend who knows to say sagacious.
Speaker 4: Can we just start there? Yeah, just let's ed here,
Speaker 4: t me on a little bit.
Speaker 1: Well now you're lesbian.
Speaker 4: Thank you, honey, thank you for having me. I'll be back.
Speaker 1: Goodbye, everybody Bye.
Speaker 2: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
Speaker 2: at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
Speaker 2: sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
Speaker 2: and engineered by Brad Dickard executive producer Catherine Law and
Speaker 2: be sure to check out our march at Chelseahandler dot
Speaker 2: com