WEBVTT - How Feeding Babies Works: The Bottle 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:04.400 Hey, San Francisco, we're coming back to see you. Yes, 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:07.320 our second year in a row. We're gonna be going 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:10.520 to s F Sketch Fest. What I'd like to think, 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:13.840 it's the premier comedy festival in the United States, probably 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:17.720 well in the world, you think, so, Yeah, what about Beijing? Nope, 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.200 it's a it's a close second, but a second. Well, 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.320 we love San Francisco, we love performing there. Everyone is 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.000 always so kind to us. And by San Francisco we 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:29.880 mean the entire Bay area of course. Yeah, so we 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.080 will be there doing our thing for one time only 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:38.159 show on Sunday, January at one pm. Yeah, it's the 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:44.639 rare Sunday afternoon. We're like the NFL of podcasters. Yeah right, 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.600 that's that's what I've always thought. So all you have 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.040 to do is go to the SF Sketch Fest site, 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.640 look at the old calendar, and there are tons of 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.720 great people performing. Oh yeah, So I suggest like just 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:57.920 doubling down and getting tickets to all kinds of good 0:00:57.960 --> 0:00:59.840 shows for sure, And hurry up and get tickets to 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.280 is because they've only been on sale for a week 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:04.480 or so and they're already half sold out. That's right, 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:10.000 So please hurry, San Francisco, please hurry. Welcome to Stuff 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:19.000 You Should Know from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.360 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.720 Chuck Bryant, and we have guest producer Noel with us. 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.520 And this is Stuff you Should Know, Part two. That's right. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.000 And actually things are gonna get weird because Noal is 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.080 about to leave, I think, and then that means we're 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:39.600 alone again. You never know what's gonna happen. The beating 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:42.520 of our hearts is the only sound stuff you should 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:48.800 know after dark. Let's got weird pretty quick. Uh. So 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:54.240 this is part two of How Feeding Babies Works? Right, 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.560 we're on the same page. Oh yeah, yeah, I hope so. 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.200 Uh and part one I think went down pretty well. 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.520 It's uh, it was a little nerve racking being two 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:07.600 dudes at the risk of doing it wrong or or 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.800 like you said, man splaining, which I I even hate 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.240 saying that term. But I think we did a pretty 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.320 good job. Yeah, we didn't come across as we were 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.720 hanging on by just our fingernails like I felt for 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.120 most of the time. I think we did all right too. Yeah, 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:26.200 and today we're gonna focus a lot more on formula feeding, 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.200 which I feel much more comfortable because it's something I 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:31.200 know a lot about. Right, Yeah, I figured you could 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.560 probably deal a lot of heavy lifting on this one. 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.400 Well it's not that heavy, just five or six ounces 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:41.560 at a time. Terrible we uh Yeah, this one is 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:43.799 the first. One is called the breast. This one is 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.160 called the bottle. And yeah, you know, the bottle is 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.359 well usually filled with formula, but there's plenty of other 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:55.200 stuff you could fill with it, specifically breast milk, UM. 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:59.480 But a lot of women start using bottles fairly early on, 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.880 sometimes from the outset. And there's a lot of reasons why. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:03.840 There's a lot of reasons I guess, in other words, 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:08.600 why UM women either choose not to or ultimately have 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:13.120 chosen for them not to breastfeed UM. And one of 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.359 the big ones that's actually pretty common is a condition 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:22.120 called mass titis. And mess titis is basically an extremely 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:27.760 extremely painful inflammation of the breast or breasts, I guess, 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.720 in the worst case, which can be brought on by 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:35.680 like sore cracked nipples, um or an infection in the 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.720 breast block milk ducks. There's a lot of stuff they 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:43.160 can bring it on and as painful as breastfeeding can be, 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.040 Apparently the recommended treatment, of course of treatment for massitis 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:51.000 is to keep on breastfeeding. That clearly, like actually the 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.160 flow of milk through the breast clears up the inflammation 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.480 and even the infection in some cases. And I was 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.680 trying to figure that out, like how would that work? 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.560 But then I remember breastmoke is so chuck full of 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.760 anybodies that I guess it would deliver that antibodies to 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.760 that site as well, right, wouldn't that That was the 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.080 only thing I could come up with. Yeah, that makes sense, 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.520 And you know, yes, or well actually did record We'll 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.080 let the cat out of the bag. We're recording these 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.600 on two super days even yeah, we usually do the 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.919 sweets in one day. But uh yeah, we decided to 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.320 sleep on it, right, And I think that's probably a 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:27.200 good move. But yesterday when I mentioned my mother did 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.280 not breastfeed me and she had some problems with my brother, 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.000 I think that was the deal. I think there was, 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.840 um it was pain and stuff like that. Yeah, And 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.560 I mean, like from what I can gather, mastitis is 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.760 not just pain, like you feel very ill and run 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.680 down and apparently you're supposed to get lots of bedrest 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:48.000 and and nutritious fluids and express your milk every two 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:52.760 hours and apparently and express yourself for that matter, right, 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.640 which is probably amounts to, um, I'm in hell right now. 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.000 Probably um. But the when you put all this stuff 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.480 together on top of like all of the normal things 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.000 that you have to do under the best of circumstances 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.719 when caring for a newborn, this very frequently represents the 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:10.920 last straw. For women who are like on the fence 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:15.240 about breastfeeding. The mestiti is commonly leads them to say, 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.480 we're done with that. I'm done with breastfeeding. That's one 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.760 another one I came across that, Um, I hadn't really 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.160 thought about that kind of surprised me, was boom jobs, Yeah, 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.359 I never considered this until you did the research and 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.680 that thought. Oh you know what, I never even thought 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.800 about that. That's so out of my uh sphere of consciousness. 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.760 That pretty uh oh. I don't think I meant that 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.400 to be a pun was it? No, it wasn't. It was. 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.359 It's a great T shirt, you know, like instead of 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.760 talk to the hand, it's you are now out of 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.880 my sphere of consciousness. Uh So if you do get 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:57.720 breast implants, Um, it kind of depends on the reasons why, 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:02.800 how it's done. Uh, where it's actually done obviously in 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:06.360 the breast area, but they have we haven't done one 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:08.800 of breast implants have, dude. One of our better episodes 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.279 is on breast implant Really. Yeah, I remember I said 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:13.400 I wanted to see what a breast I plant looks 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:16.440 like on a dog because apparently they practice on dogs 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:20.480 early on. Yeah, that was a great episode from beginning 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.839 to end. It was a long time ago though. Um So, 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.800 getting back to it. The the incisions, it depends on 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:31.719 where they're made. If they go across the nipples are arela, 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:35.880 it's probably likely that your milk ducks in the nerves 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:40.080 were cut, which means you probably can't breastfeed exactly. But 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:41.840 if you had a good doctor and they went like 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.839 into your armpit underneath your breast, they probably also specifically 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:50.080 chose to save those nerves and go around them. So 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.400 if your incisions are under your breast, around your armpit, uh, 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.920 you you probably are able to breastfeed. I imagine that's 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:58.880 a part of the conversation when you go in there, 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.200 don't you think probably, Bie, like, hey, do you want 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.159 to have kids or do you have kids or do 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.599 you want a breastfeed? Yeah, like I would. I don't know, 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.240 I've never I've never had a consultation. No, but yeah, 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.600 I mean it does seem reasonable that that would be 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.280 part of it, for sure, I would think so. Yeah. Uh. 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.800 The other thing, if you still have feeling in your nipples, 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:21.200 that's a good sign that the nerves are still intact. Uh. 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:25.040 And sometimes that takes a little while to come back though. Yeah, 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.920 if you just had your your breast augmentation surgery and 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.000 the feeling isn't back, that doesn't mean it's not going 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:32.480 to come back. So that's not a sign. But if 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.040 it's been years now and you have feeling back in 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:40.080 your nipples, you probably can can breastfeed. Where you got 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:45.280 your implants counts too. If it's in the actual memory tissue, UM, 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.200 that's gonna be a problem. It's going to get in 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:49.480 the way of milk production. But if they put it 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:53.320 under your chest muscles, which is more involved but um 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:58.440 is basically out of the way of your your actual breasts, 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:03.080 you can um probably breastfeed. I feel like I should 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.560 be finishing each one of these with you're probably your redneck. 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:11.240 You know, you probably can breastfeed if the implant is 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:12.800 on the back of your neck. The good news is 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.240 you can breastfeed, but you probably made a grave error 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:21.440 in your choice of doctors. Then you might be a redneck. Uh, 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:26.200 you'd be a boob neck. Uh. And then the reason 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:29.400 for having it is another UM factor. If you if 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.480 you just got the breast implants because you wanted larger 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.600 breast and it was purely cosmetic, then you probably are 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:40.120 a better candidate for breastfeeding. Whereas if you got implants 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:44.920 because the tissue was never developed, or there was maybe 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:51.640 asymmetric problems, or if the breasts were far apart from 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.439 one another, Like, these are reasons that you may not 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:58.800 be able to breastfeed. And again I imagine in the 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.240 console this will all be coward Yeah, Like if you 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:05.600 got breast augmentation because your memory tissue didn't develop properly 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:09.000 or normally, then um, yeah, you might not be able 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.280 to breastfeed. So those are a couple. There's plenty of 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:16.600 other reasons why a woman would choose not to breastfeed. Um. 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.040 In large part it's a matter of preference right. Some 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.640 women just simply don't want a breastfeed. Some are afraid 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.840 it's gonna hurt, Some are embarrassed by the idea. UM. 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.839 In some families, it's a family tradition that you're raised 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:34.200 on formula um. There's basically as many reasons for a 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:38.000 woman to choose not to breastfeed as as as there 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.720 are reasons, probably even more to tell you the truth. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.960 So let's die back in history a bit. We sort of, uh, 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.920 I guess we usually do history first, but this is 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:52.400 sort of woven in sensibly. I think um back in 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:57.720 the day it was. It's kind of interesting. I have 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.440 heard wet nurse my whole life. I've known that was 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:05.320 a term, but I literally never knew what that was. Really. No, 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.479 I don't know why. It's just maybe I'm a big dummy, 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:10.600 but I had no idea that a wet nurse is 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:15.600 a woman who breastfeeds someone else's child. It's funny, I 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:17.760 did not know that, did you had? Did you think 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:19.480 it was something else? So you just never stopped and 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.520 thought about We never stopped and thought about it. I 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:23.679 never needed one, so I was just like, yeah, and 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.600 you know, put a wet nurse on it. Sure that help, right, 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:29.840 that'll clear that bum nye right up? Is better than 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.360 a dry nurse, right, sure, drying nurse. They're chapped and cracked. 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.240 So yeah, that's what what happens. Uh, And it was 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.680 it's very common practice back in the day, especially before 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:45.720 the feeding bottle was invented, and um, of course, as 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:49.520 you would imagine, it was an alternative mainly for people 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:53.600 of higher status. Yeah. Yeah, that's actually kind of fascinating. 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.840 Um in that for a very very long time, except 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.920 for a period between about eighteen thirty or eighteen twenty 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.760 and eighteen no I'm sorry, eighteen fifty and eighteen eighty, 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.240 when breastfeeding was all the rage in America, very much 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:12.680 akin to the situation now. Breastfeeding was seen as what 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:16.679 the um women of lower socioeconomic classes did, like, they 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.480 can't afford a wet nurse, so they have to feed 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.840 their baby exactly right, exactly or yeah, they like I 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.640 would hire a woman of a lower socio economic class 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.560 to feed my own baby, um, just because it just 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.040 wasn't done this. Women didn't do that kind of thing 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.000 if you were well off or well to do. Yeah, 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.520 which is is terrible, but you, Um, I never considered 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:41.360 that a lot of mothers died during or not a lot, 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.200 but plenty more mothers died during childbirth back then. And 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.760 so that's a chance to save these babies, which is amazing. 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.640 Sure truly, for sure, I mean like, and that's that's 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.600 one way that wet nurses really did kind of keep 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:59.320 things going. But for for a large part for about 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:03.600 two thousand years, UM, breastfeeding or the use of wet 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:06.480 nurses was basically what you what women of a higher 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.120 status did they hired breasts or wet nurses, which is 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.120 I had no idea. It's fascinating, it is, and even 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:16.240 more to the point, uh, it kind of formed the 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:21.000 basis of this idea that um, not breastfeeding was preferable 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.040 to breastfeeding, that you were it was better to not 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.600 breastfeed if you were able to write, it was the 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:32.800 preference of the wealthier class, whereas the exact opposite is 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:37.640 is the position today. They've completely switched positions today. Yeah, 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.840 and this this author Katherine Joyce uh in The New Republic, 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.320 UM basically said, you know, it's been a constant throughout 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:50.719 history that whether whichever is in fashion, they think they're right, right, 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.040 Like one is viewed as better than the other depends 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.080 on where you are in history as to which that was. 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.480 It's not equal, it's not different. One is clearly better, 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.640 and in many cases, especially as the cases now concerning breastfeeding, 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.120 is morally better in the view of the people who 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:11.120 champion it, you know. Um, So for a very long 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:17.560 time men have been extremely fascinated with breast milk or 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.360 with feeding babies. Right, they've applied scientific inquiry to the 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:24.560 whole thing, because I think that is part of it, 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.600 you know. Um, well, yeah, but I mean we covered 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.040 that yesterday. We could try all we wanted to wouldn't work, 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:34.920 So maybe that is part of the reason. I hadn't 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.120 really considered that. But there has been a lot of 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.560 scientific inquiry. Ironically, it hasn't really come up with any 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.720 set stuff. But as far back as um, I think 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:48.840 ninety the nineties, just the nineties, not even the nineteen nineties. 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.520 Years before the nineties, there is a guy named Serahnis 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:59.040 of Theseus, and he was an early physician who basically 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:03.640 wrote a twenty three chapter treatise on obstetrics and pediatrics 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.360 and kind of gynecology, and one of the things he 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:12.240 focused on was breast milk. Yeah, and his big contribution, well, 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.640 one of the big contributions was a test for the 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:20.760 consistency of breast milk that stood for about fifteen hundred years, 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:25.520 which is pretty amazing. Well, because it's clearly infallible. Yeah. 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:27.800 So here's what you do, is you, uh, you take 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.520 a fingernail and you drop a drop of breast milk 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.240 on the fingernail and I guess the fingernails facing up 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.720 and you're flat with the finger. Uh. When it's on 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.760 the fingernail and you move the finger, the milk is 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.200 not supposed to be so watered down that it runs 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.840 all over the nail. And when you point your fingernail down, 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.760 it's not so thick that it uh turns into a 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.720 transformer robot. Now, it's not so thick that it clings 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.960 to the nail and that you're looking for somewhere in 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.520 the middle. Is what he's says. And for years people said, yep, 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.840 that's how you do it. Yeah. And so not only 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.920 was that like, your breast milk is great, but also 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.800 this wet nurse's breast milk is adequate for the contract 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.840 you want to give her. Oh, sure, I never thought 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:16.560 about that. Yeah, I probably had a lot to do 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:21.280 with it, for sure. Um. And people also used animal 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.800 milk as well. Apparently for the last two thousand years, 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:28.360 there's evidence of people using animal milk. Um. But for 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:33.440 for the most part it was wet nurses and then formula, 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:38.920 artificial formula, which came back late nineteenth century. Yeah. Um. 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.320 In the nineteenth century there was a guy named Eustace 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:46.240 fun lie Big and he set about trying to create 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.920 a perfect infant food and artificial breast milk, right, and 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.160 in eighteen sixty five he kind of cracked it. He 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.600 made a liquid form and then a powdered form, and 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.440 it was made up of cow's milk, wheat and malt, 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.600 flour and potassium by carbonate. And when he came up 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.080 with this in the eighteen sixties, um, it was considered 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:10.640 like the perfect infant food, basically better than breast milk. Yeah. 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.360 And by this point, this was about uh fifteen is 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.320 years after the first feeding bottles were introduced in France. 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.880 So people were ready like, we've got the bottle, we've 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:28.360 we've worked out these very rudimentary cork nipples, and um, 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.800 we need something to put in it besides breast milk 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:36.480 and one of the other things that that UM came all. 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:40.040 All this stuff kind of came together to form the 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:45.520 basis of a successful formula feeding formula, right, um. And 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.880 one of those was things like sterilization, pasteurization, germ theory, 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.680 because in the early nineteenth century they were trying out 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.840 like bottles and stuff like that, but it was killing 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.960 infants left and right because they didn't know about sterilization, 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.360 they didn't know about UM germ theory at the time. 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:07.280 They I think something like one third of non breastfed 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:13.280 babies died from being fed UM artificial milk. That's staggering, 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.000 it is, that's a lot. So there was a huge 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.520 breakthrough in the late nineteenth century when they came up 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.639 with a decent formula that wasn't UM just animal milk, 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.320 and that they could deliver it in some sort of 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.680 feeding apparatus that wasn't gonna ultimately kill the baby, right, 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.520 So that was a big deal. Yeah, And this is all, 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.320 like I said, early eighteen fifties is when the bottle 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.320 comes UM. Eighteen sixty five is when von lee Big 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.919 developed his UM, and sort of a little before and 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:45.160 a little after you had people like Gail Borden if 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:49.760 that name rings a bell, uh, Eagle brand boarding condensed milk. 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.560 She came up with that um at a sugar. I'm 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:59.359 pretty sure, Huh, it could be a boy. It sounds 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.760 like it's just a man too, as a country western singer. No, 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.080 Gael totally can be a guy's name. I just defaulted 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.440 to lady because I don't know, because it's about breastfeeding, 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:12.399 I guess, so he I guess added sugar to evaporated 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.240 milk candid and that was condensed milk. And then about 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.159 thirty years later, I mean, it became popular as an 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:25.000 infant food. Obviously. Have you ever had condensed milk in 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:29.119 in things, not in things like cheesecakes and and like 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.120 the sweetest dessert you can ever have. Yeah, they were 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:36.280 feeding that that stuff straight up to infants as the 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:42.080 infant food. Yeah. Yeah. And about thirty years later, another one, 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:47.000 John B. Marling, was that a man. It's possible. Uh. 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:51.359 He developed an unsweetened condensed milk. UM called it evaporated milk, 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.760 and this became a big thing to feed babies in 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.480 the thirties and forties. All this stuff had a lot 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:02.040 of fat Um, it would plump your baby up really well, 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.119 but it was missing a lot of the things that 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.879 babies need to thrive, like why does my baby have 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:13.919 claws instead of fingernails and like dark circles under his eyes. Oh, nutrients, 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.680 that's right, we need vitamins in this stuff. Yeah, which, 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:21.160 uh in the nineteen twenties or so is when scientists 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:26.879 started developing these uh formulas that didn't even have cow's 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.400 milk at all, right, right, for kids that had milk allergies. 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:34.600 They started using like soy flower. Yeah. And so when 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.680 they figured out that, um, you could take this stuff 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:42.320 and evaporate milk or evaporate soy protein and add this 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:46.960 other stuff to it, like nutrients and vitamins, um, and 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.639 balance it all out, formula really took off and it 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.879 became a really almost a triumph of science in the 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:59.359 popular culture. Right. So, starting in the thirties in America, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.679 if you wanted formula, you basically had to go to 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.800 your doctor for it. You didn't necessarily need a prescription 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.639 from what I saw, but the the rule was that 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.800 if you were a formula manufacturer, you could only advertise 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:17.600 directly to doctors. So it gave formula this kind of 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:22.000 air of medicine like it was. It was medical and nature. 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.800 It was like sterile and high quality, and that that 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:29.080 had the stamp of science behind it, and it lionized 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:34.320 the physicians who were now in between the mother and 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.520 the baby's food, right, the doctor needed to recommend it, 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.240 and so it was a It was a real way 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:47.760 that UM science and medicine and parenting, especially early early 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:53.280 childhood parenting came fused together. And so there was this 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.560 idea that science had had conquered nature and created this 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:01.800 perfect infant food. So by the nineties and fifties, this 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:07.040 is when formula had really taken root, uh in the 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.920 United States, and I guess around the world, but definitely 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.200 in the United States, and it definitely caused a decline 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:15.919 in breastfeeding for about thirty years. Yeah, I mean this 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.119 is around the time the Late h A League started 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.919 to organize in the fifties as a direct result of 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:25.840 this decline in breastfeeding UM, and it continued on even 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:30.720 into the seventies where the Our Bodies Ourselves people UM 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:35.240 organized that second wave of lactivism, right, and formula is 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:40.399 like flying high from the thirties the forties onto about 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:44.360 the mid seventies, and you can actually point to one 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:50.719 specific scandal that that basically led to a massive erosion 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:55.000 of trust in formula, not just in the United States 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.920 but around the world that's still around today. Actually, Yeah, 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.360 the Nesli Company in the mid nineteen seventies, they were 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:07.919 sued because they were trying to really market formula to 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:12.360 developing countries very aggressively. Yeah, they wanted to sell more formula, 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:16.520 so they would do things like sin uh, saleswomen over 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:20.960 dressed up in nurses uniforms who were not nurses, giving 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:24.399 obviously the indication like, hey, this this is a great thing. 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:26.480 You should you should use it. And formula was a 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.880 great thing that they developed it, for sure, But what 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.679 they didn't say in Africa to these mothers is that, hey, 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.480 you need really good clean water here for this to 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:40.000 be a viable source of nutrition for your kid. They 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:43.000 didn't know that. Uh, they used at tainted water and 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:46.879 infants started dying. Yeah, and it was laid squarely at 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:52.639 the feet of nestly formula and ultimately formula in general. Um. 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.960 And that was I think seventy four that that happened, 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:01.240 and a few years later the World Health Ordization came 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:06.160 up with these guidelines for for marketing formula around the world. 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:10.160 It was such a huge scandal, and the US said, oh, wait, 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:12.760 you know what, we just realized there's nobody overseeing our 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:15.600 formula market they we should put the FDA on that. 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:18.639 So it wasn't until nineteen eighty that the United States 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:23.840 task the f d A with overseeing the quality impurity 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:27.680 of formula. For then it was apparently just totally unregulated. Yeah, 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:30.639 I can't believe nineteen eighty that's really really surprising. But 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:33.959 the whole suspicion of formula and the whole idea that 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:38.639 it's dangerous, sir, that it's problematic, it all stems from 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:44.119 that event that um, that that scandal with Nessley in Africa. Yeah. 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:47.240 So about eight years later, in the late eighties, the 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:51.320 formula folks started, uh they could advertise directly to the 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:54.240 public for the first time. I got on TV, got 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:58.199 in print ads and said, hey, used to use our 0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:02.840 formula's good stuff, and and um, apparently the American Academy 0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:06.080 of Pediatric so still didn't like this kind of advertising 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:08.159 and said you should still go to your doctor and 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:10.720 talk about all this stuff, right, which is a conundrum 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:13.040 it's like, well, wait a minute, are you guys saying 0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:17.200 that the the formula industry is being greedy and and 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:20.200 reckless by going around you? Or are you just trying 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:25.760