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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, Hey everybody, how is it going? I hope

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Speaker 1: it's good. Right, it's a beautiful day here. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: got a nice walk in like the dog out. I'm Diana,

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Speaker 1: I'm Eli, and thanks as always for joining us. A

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Speaker 1: ridiculous romance. Yes, we've got a wild one today. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: It took me into the world of pro wrestling, which

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Speaker 1: I have. Yeah, I don't know much about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've not seen you spend too much time there. You're

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Speaker 1: not really a ring head. I don't know I made that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what they called I'm not either. I

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Speaker 1: don't think they call it that, but you know, feel

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Speaker 1: free to dial in. Let us know what you call yourselves. Man.

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Speaker 1: I have some people who are very into pro less wrestling,

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Speaker 1: and I'll say that I was definitely when I was younger.

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Speaker 1: Is one of those things where I was like, that

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Speaker 1: is the stupidest thing. I can't believe you care about it.

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Speaker 1: That's outrageous. You know, it's fake, right, and like really

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Speaker 1: trying to burst everyone's bubble and now here I am like, well,

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Speaker 1: the thing is that when Thano's first came to Wakonda,

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Speaker 1: then you know, and it's like exactly the same thing, right,

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Speaker 1: It's just mythology and characters and this whole dense storyline

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Speaker 1: being told across multiple media. It's it's actually kind of cool.

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Speaker 1: I don't follow it, but I think it's neat. I

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Speaker 1: know I got an appreciation for it certainly at some point.

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Speaker 1: I think when I worked my one of my first

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Speaker 1: jobs was at Sun Coast Motion Picture Company. Remember that yourself, Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm definitely dating myself in nineteen Yeah, the Sun Coast

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Speaker 1: just across from the Hot Topic at a place called

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Speaker 1: the Mall. It's actually across from a Wilson's Leather so

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Speaker 1: even better. Better kids, You just don't understand. What's funny

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Speaker 1: is it was literally right down the street from a

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Speaker 1: Best Buy and everyone would come in and be like,

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Speaker 1: why would I spend this movie here when I could

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Speaker 1: buy it best Buy for nineteen dollars And we'd be like,

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Speaker 1: you're welcome to do so, but you're here. We have

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Speaker 1: the largest collection of dragon ball z so depending on

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Speaker 1: what you want, So you got all those those, um

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Speaker 1: the ball heads, Yeah, we get the ball heads, z heads,

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Speaker 1: the heads, dragon heads. They probably would go with dragon

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Speaker 1: heads is part of the title of Dragons, but ball

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Speaker 1: heads feels like very good on a real ball head,

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Speaker 1: got all my Goku. That's the extent of my Dragon

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Speaker 1: ball Z knowledge, just the name Goku. I think that's right.

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Speaker 1: I hope that's right. Is I think that's true. Look,

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Speaker 1: we got an episode to get to true. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: I brought up Stuncoasts because we also had a lot

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Speaker 1: of WrestleMania stuff, so people would come in for that

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Speaker 1: a lot, and I think you're right. People would try

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Speaker 1: to brush their bubble all the time by being like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not real, right, and they're like, that's

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Speaker 1: what I like about it is the ship. They come

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Speaker 1: up with fake disputes and all that stuff, And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was it's cool to know more about it and

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Speaker 1: have a little more appreciation for it, I guess now,

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Speaker 1: but but yeah, I didn't know ship. So sorry if

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Speaker 1: I mess up all my wrestling right. But yeah, Today

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Speaker 1: we have a story about Rob Black, Lizzy Borden, and

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Speaker 1: William the Messiah Welch. And this was suggested by Anne

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Speaker 1: Simon on Instagram, So thank you Anne. This is a

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Speaker 1: good story idea. Wild So the year is two thousand

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Speaker 1: two Nickelbacks. How You Remind Me is the hit song

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Speaker 1: on the radio, Joe Millionaires eating up the ratings, and

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Speaker 1: the Rock is still a wrestler his movie career. No

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Speaker 1: one had even dreamed of it yet. Yeah, can you

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Speaker 1: can you smell what he's cooking? That was the only

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Speaker 1: question we had about The Rock we had for an

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Speaker 1: UM and in general, you know, the world of Into

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Speaker 1: Pendant Pro Wrestling is thriving. And then one of the

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Speaker 1: weirdest stories in Southern California wrestling history happens. William the

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Speaker 1: Messiah Welch, formerly part of Extreme Pro Wrestling Promotions, is

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Speaker 1: attacked inside his home and the guys who did it

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Speaker 1: were never caught, but William was sure they were sent

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Speaker 1: by his former boss, Rob Black. So this story takes

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Speaker 1: us into the world of shock pornography. So please be aware.

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Speaker 1: We're going to be talking about material that depicts rape,

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Speaker 1: religious blasphemy, ingesting, really really gross bodily fluids, etcetera. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty gross. A lot of language, a lot of language,

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Speaker 1: many porn titles that I had to include because they

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Speaker 1: were too funny to leave out. But anyway, just a

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Speaker 1: heads up if you're out there um listening with your

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Speaker 1: high school or something, maybe this is not maybe not this,

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Speaker 1: but I think we should just get to it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: let's get Hey, their friends come listen. Well, Elia and

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Speaker 1: Diana got some stories to tell. There's no matchmaking, a

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Speaker 1: romantic tips. It's just about ridiculous relationships, a love. It

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Speaker 1: might be any type of person at all, and abstract

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Speaker 1: cons a concrete wall. But if there's a story with

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Speaker 1: the second Clans, ridiculous romans a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: So Rob Black's real name is Rob Zachari. He grew

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Speaker 1: up in Rochester, New York. Homeptown Well where I was born.

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Speaker 1: Hometown hometown for like six months. Shout out garbage plates there, um.

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Speaker 1: So his dad, Rob Dacari's dad actually opened the very

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Speaker 1: first adult bookstore in Rochester, um in the sixties and seventies,

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Speaker 1: and he had like over two hundred at some point.

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Speaker 1: He had ties to gangsters. He directed adult movies like,

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Speaker 1: for example, Backside to the Future. So look, there's clever

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Speaker 1: porn names out there, but you just whatever, It's fine,

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Speaker 1: It's all right. It's not the best, is what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Elis sending notes to now Backside of the Future, like

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Speaker 1: you could do better. Come on. So anyway, Rob very

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Speaker 1: literally grew up in the door to the future is

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Speaker 1: better to be on that door to the future is better. Actually,

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Speaker 1: well it's too late now where were you in the

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Speaker 1: sixties slash seventies? So anyway, Rob very literally grew up

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Speaker 1: in the adult business. When he was a kid, he

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Speaker 1: was in charge of sorting the quarters from the peep

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Speaker 1: show booths into roles, and whatever didn't fit into the

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Speaker 1: one box he got to keep. So he talked about

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Speaker 1: going to the batting cages as a kid with eighty

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Speaker 1: dollars worth a quarters, was that the richest kid in

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Speaker 1: the world. Maybe that was that his fee like rolles

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Speaker 1: courts and you keep whatever is left over kids. Probably,

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Speaker 1: And at first he kind of envisioned for himself like

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Speaker 1: moving away from the adult business. He was going to

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Speaker 1: go to college, He's going to work for the FBI.

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Speaker 1: But then he discovered how much cop got paid, so

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Speaker 1: he changed his mind real quick, and at eighteen he

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Speaker 1: started managing the Rochester store. But unbeknownst to Papa Zakari,

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Speaker 1: he also secretly financed and filmed his first pornographic film,

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Speaker 1: which he called Tenderloin's and that came out in when

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Speaker 1: Rob was only nineteen Okay, so he's sneaking around on

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Speaker 1: you know, He's like, Dad won't let me get into

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Speaker 1: the business yet, but I'll make him proud, right, It's

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Speaker 1: gonna make my own, which is weird because he's like

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Speaker 1: doing it himself. So I wonder if he had a

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Speaker 1: little bit of like he also hoped that his kid

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be in the business or something like that, but

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Speaker 1: of course he was, I'm doing this, Sun, so you

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Speaker 1: don't have to don't end up like me owning two

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Speaker 1: D video stores, right, I know. So this caused something

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Speaker 1: of a rift between Rob and his father. When his

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Speaker 1: dad found out that he had directed a pornography film,

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Speaker 1: he was like, what the are you doing? And Rob

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Speaker 1: decided to move out to a and create his persona

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Speaker 1: Rob Black, a loudmouthed provocateur, which isn't very creative. They

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Speaker 1: still have the same exact first name. First of all,

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Speaker 1: as a car is a colder name than why is

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Speaker 1: way cooler? First of all. Second of all, I think

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Speaker 1: it's strange that his dad like raised him in the business,

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Speaker 1: gave him a job like counting the quarters and stuff like,

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Speaker 1: surrounded his son with this and then was like, how

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Speaker 1: dare you get involved. How dare you make a movie

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Speaker 1: of your own? I forbid it to the point where

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Speaker 1: he chased him away. It's like, what are you trying

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Speaker 1: to do here? Maybe it wasn't trying to protect him.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he was trying to stop competition. Before he started,

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Speaker 1: he was like, how dare you trying to cut into

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Speaker 1: my profits? You only keep what I don't want. You've

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Speaker 1: got to the West Coast kid. So anyway, he told

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Speaker 1: Reason magazine that the major difference between Rob Black and

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Speaker 1: Rob Zachari was quote, I have bad taste, but Rob

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Speaker 1: Black has even more bad taste. Again, not much of

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Speaker 1: a difference, Like the character work here. I feel like

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Speaker 1: this porn director isn't really putting enough work into his

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Speaker 1: character development. It's it's lacking, is what it is. It

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Speaker 1: feels like somebody who's like, I know, I already have

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Speaker 1: like a really annoying personality. So I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: tell everyone it's a character so that it's more accepted.

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Speaker 1: That's a good move. Yeah, everyone who hates me, that's

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Speaker 1: just a character I've been playing. You'd actually love the

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Speaker 1: real So by twenty three, out in l A, Rob

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Speaker 1: was working for a porn production company called Elegant Angels,

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Speaker 1: and his videos were winning multiple awards until he formed

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Speaker 1: his own company, Extreme Associates. Extreme Associates. I love the

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Speaker 1: like party in business vibe that puts together like we're associates.

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Speaker 1: So at this point in pop culture, it's the late

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Speaker 1: nineties and like shock value is where it's at. Right,

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Speaker 1: these days were uh interesting for sure, that's true. You

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Speaker 1: had like slim Shady and Marilyn Manson out there just

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Speaker 1: shocking everyone. Timper Gore is getting all mad about it,

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Speaker 1: and she's putting parental discretion labels on everything. Uh, South

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Speaker 1: Park is out here freaking out parents nationwide. Girls Gone

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Speaker 1: Wild was everywhere. Websites like rotten dot com. Remember this

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Speaker 1: horrific stuff. Those are popping up. You could see everything

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Speaker 1: from like animal snuff too, gruesome crime scene photos. I

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Speaker 1: had friends that got into this and I could not ever,

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Speaker 1: I could not handle, Like, hey, you want to see

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Speaker 1: this video a guy dies, you can see the life

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Speaker 1: come out of his eyes. I'm like, I'm not know.

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Speaker 1: I knew without looking at it that that was a

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Speaker 1: absolute no for me that I didn't like most of

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Speaker 1: this stuff. I did love. I did love Slim Shady,

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Speaker 1: but otherwise I was not really into most of this

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Speaker 1: shock shit, and then you had horror movies like Chopping

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Speaker 1: Up young women all the time. Hollywood depicted all kind

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Speaker 1: of unsavory stuff and prostitution to drug use to sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: So Rob decided, you know, I'm going to incorporate similar

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Speaker 1: elements into my pornography. This is what's hot right now,

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Speaker 1: everybody's into it, might as well put it in porn.

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Speaker 1: He told Reason quote. The concept was doing something that

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Speaker 1: nobody was doing. It wasn't just sex acts. It was

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Speaker 1: the plot lines. We did movies about drug dealers and pimps,

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Speaker 1: about murderers and thugs and rapists. My notion was always

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Speaker 1: why can't porn be like Hollywood? It's all fake, it's

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Speaker 1: a movie. At some point he was like, we were

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Speaker 1: making real stuff and everyone else was making jerkoff stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, well, isn't that the point though,

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Speaker 1: just to make jerkoff stuff. It's a weird world to

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Speaker 1: like kind of hover in between. And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: did you just want to make movies? You just wanted

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Speaker 1: to include sex in them, real sex, you know, Because

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Speaker 1: he can't do that, He's like, well, I want to

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Speaker 1: make everything Hollywood's doing. I just want to be able

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Speaker 1: to have real sex in it. It's kind of more

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Speaker 1: like the angle he was taking. So he pretty much

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Speaker 1: alienated a lot of the porn industry as soon as

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Speaker 1: he got into the scene because most of the pornographers

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Speaker 1: who had been in the business through the eighties and

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Speaker 1: early nineties had dealt with federal obscenity cracktowns that had

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Speaker 1: cost them millions of dollars and seized cash and assets,

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Speaker 1: business closures, legal fees. Although ironically, the Adam and Eve

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Speaker 1: founder Peter Harvey said that he actually made more money

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Speaker 1: during all his legal troubles in the eighties because the

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Speaker 1: crackdowns eliminated a lot of his competition. So kind of

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Speaker 1: funny that he's like, oh, I'm paying three million dollars

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Speaker 1: and fees, but my business is only growing. Yeah, must

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Speaker 1: have been a mixed signal for him. Well, you wonder

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Speaker 1: if like big businesses don't kind of feed that a

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Speaker 1: little bit because they're like, we can survive the lawsuits,

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Speaker 1: but all these little businesses that are growing up right

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Speaker 1: now that might be competition later they'll get crushed. So yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: keep them coming, bring it, Bring it on, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know. Of course, Hustler founder Larry Flint faced his

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Speaker 1: famous trial for obscenity in the eight um mostly for

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Speaker 1: similar content to what Rob was doing, graphic depictions of

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Speaker 1: naked women being raped, strangled, beaten, and murdered. Um. So

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Speaker 1: that was kind of the big problem with Larry Flint

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Speaker 1: was that he was showing really violent stuff in his magazines,

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Speaker 1: And Gloria Steinham did a whole thing and she was like,

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Speaker 1: get this guy out of here. Why is he making this?

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Speaker 1: This stuff is promoting violence against women. So some of

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Speaker 1: the bigger names in the porn industry felt like Rob

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Speaker 1: was playing with fire that could end up burning them all.

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Speaker 1: You know, don't bring a lot of negative attention to

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Speaker 1: us right now by doing the worst things that we're

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Speaker 1: getting in trouble for Greg Bido for Reason magazine wrote quote,

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Speaker 1: virtually every producer of commercial consequence scrupulously obeyed a set

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Speaker 1: of unwritten guidelines. Urination, defecation, and rape and incest themes

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Speaker 1: were all taboo, and bondage videos could not show penetration,

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Speaker 1: and for a while the Feds laid off of them.

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Speaker 1: But Rob was all about showing all those things and more.

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Speaker 1: And again, this country at the time super into being shocked.

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Speaker 1: For example, in one of the top grossing romcoms of

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Speaker 1: If anyone out there remembers like we do, Cameron Diaz

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Speaker 1: styled her hair with Ben Stiller's seamen Like you know,

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Speaker 1: that was a whole We were all slapping our knees

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Speaker 1: to that one. That was a wide release. So Rob's

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Speaker 1: porn was really popular. He was even awarded a Best

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Speaker 1: Director statue at the A V AND Awards, which are

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Speaker 1: also known as the Oscars of Porn. I'm sure the

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Speaker 1: glam is the same roll out the red carpet. Just

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Speaker 1: don't turn on the black light. So that same year,

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Speaker 1: a twenty one year old woman named Janet Romano was

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Speaker 1: just breaking into the porn business. In a two to

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Speaker 1: interview with Janelle Brown in Salon magazine, she describes a

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Speaker 1: childhood being physically be eaten by her mother, who was

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Speaker 1: herself beaten up by Janet's alcoholic stepfather. So just a

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Speaker 1: very volatile, violent, horrible situation at home. So she moved

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Speaker 1: in with her grandparents, um when she was twelve, and

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Speaker 1: they were pretty conservative. But once she was eighteen, she

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Speaker 1: went on a scholarship to a community college. She was

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Speaker 1: on her own for the first time, and she started

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Speaker 1: getting into raves, which meant she got into a lot

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Speaker 1: of drugs. Um she got in pretty bad drug addiction

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Speaker 1: to cocaine. She started working as a stripper, and she

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Speaker 1: says in the Salon interview that she fell for the

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Speaker 1: porn actress Jill Kelly at this time, with whom she

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Speaker 1: had her first kiss, and at some point some porn

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Speaker 1: actress it might have been Jill Kelly, might have been

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Speaker 1: someone else kind of impressed upon Janet how much money

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Speaker 1: could be made in the porn business as an actress.

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Speaker 1: So she was like, okay, I'm interested. And she started

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Speaker 1: out in performing as Mia Michaels. And apparently she took

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Speaker 1: her mother or with her to her very first okay. Um.

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Speaker 1: They had reconciled over her terrible abusive childhood because they

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Speaker 1: had a shared drug addiction. They kind of bonded over that,

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Speaker 1: I guess, but anyway, so she was basically like, all right, mom,

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Speaker 1: you need to come with feet and sit outside the

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Speaker 1: door while I do this porn shoot because she was afraid.

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Speaker 1: She's like, I didn't know the industry and I was young,

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Speaker 1: so I thought they might hurt me if they didn't

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Speaker 1: think there was someone around waiting for not a stupid thought.

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Speaker 1: Not a stupid thought, um, not at all. But it's

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Speaker 1: also very um I think indicative of her mind state

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Speaker 1: of like how people treat her out in the right right,

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Speaker 1: very ready to be harmed. And then she got a

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Speaker 1: job at Extreme Associates UM, and not long after she

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Speaker 1: got involved there, she started dating Rob Black. She told

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Speaker 1: Salon quote, Rob can't be with a woman who does porn.

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Speaker 1: He comes from a Catholic Italian family. So she's stopped

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Speaker 1: acting and started assisting on set instead, trying to convince

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Speaker 1: him to let her direct. The line is so funny,

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Speaker 1: like also, his dad directed porn. I guess his mom

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Speaker 1: wasn't an actress though. Still, I'm y'all all up in

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Speaker 1: this business. You want to act like you have some

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Speaker 1: morality here. Look, you can direct people to be having

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Speaker 1: sex on camera, but you can't be having sex. God

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Speaker 1: doesn't like that, but he doesn't mind if you make

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Speaker 1: other people do right right, that's just business and profit

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Speaker 1: off of It's God's okay with the Associates, not so

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Speaker 1: much the Extreme. It's a thick line between those words.

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Speaker 1: So he didn't want her direct because he thought that

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Speaker 1: women didn't make good porn directors because they just made

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Speaker 1: lovey dovey stuff quotes, But Janet insisted that she was

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Speaker 1: fucked up and could come up with just as crazy

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Speaker 1: ship as anyone. So together they invent did this character

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Speaker 1: called Lizzie Borden, and as Janelle Brown put it, she

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Speaker 1: was quote the twisted mascot slash mistress of the most

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Speaker 1: horrific films in the Extreme Catalog. Lizzie took it as

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Speaker 1: a challenge to be as much of a man about

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Speaker 1: hardcourt stuff as as the other guys were. Her words, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she's like, I can be a man, and boy did

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Speaker 1: she come through. Gary Beato writes quote. Their videos are

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Speaker 1: products of a jaded, hyper mediated era explicit porn coupled

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Speaker 1: with the over the top gore of slasher movies and

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Speaker 1: the stunts and gross out spectacles of reality TV. In

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Speaker 1: the Extreme Universe, women shrink viscous Excuse me, women, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna need a second to get through this one. In

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Speaker 1: the Extreme Universe, women drink viscous cocktails of semen, spit, vomit,

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Speaker 1: and other bodily fluids. Ha I can barely get through

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Speaker 1: that sentence. Dead fish are considered sex toys. U S

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Speaker 1: Marines save a female reporter from Osama bin Laden, then

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Speaker 1: rape her themselves after cutting off bin Laden's head. That's

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Speaker 1: all a quote. That's that's obviously too much for me.

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Speaker 1: Not very wholesome stuff, right, No, though there were some holes.

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Speaker 1: They want to call it whole full who hopeful content,

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Speaker 1: not wholesome, whole full full full of holes. So Rob

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Speaker 1: told Vice UK that around this time, what are the

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Speaker 1: major pro wrestling promoters ECW started dabbling and hiring porn

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Speaker 1: actresses as wrestling valets, and so they kind of were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is a perfect opportunity for us to expand, you know,

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Speaker 1: expand our business. And we got porn actresses all day,

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Speaker 1: get the associates in here, and so they formed Stream

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Speaker 1: Pro Wrestling or XPW. In however, I did see another

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Speaker 1: source that said that XPW already existed and they were

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Speaker 1: trying to steal like a partnership deal with e c W.

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Speaker 1: But then e CW said no, we're going with TNN.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have a cable deal. They don't like they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't like us being associated with a porn company. So

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Speaker 1: I'm not really sure which is true. It doesn't really matter,

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Speaker 1: I guess, but the whole industry of pro wrestling was

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Speaker 1: really leaning into the counterculture at this point, because again

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Speaker 1: shock is where it's at. Even the WWF now, of course,

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Speaker 1: the ww E the big name, the Walmart of wrestling,

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Speaker 1: even they did braw and panties matches and like other

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Speaker 1: edgier content that they dubbed their attitude. Era and Rob

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Speaker 1: and Lizzie both wrestled as well. Lizzie played an evil,

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Speaker 1: snobbish heel or villain character called the Boss's Wife, and

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Speaker 1: she was like her main thing was slapping girls around

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that that she would feud with other

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Speaker 1: lady valets. And she was the valet and manager for

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Speaker 1: another very popular heel in their lineup named William Welch,

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Speaker 1: who was also this episode's side piece. Let's go so.

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Speaker 1: William Welch's first match was in November and he lost

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Speaker 1: that match, but a few weeks later in December, he

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Speaker 1: debuted the persona he would be most well known as

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Speaker 1: the Messiah. He quickly became one of the most despised

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Speaker 1: villains and celebrated wrestlers in the whole XPW docket. By

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Speaker 1: two thousand one, He held both the XPW King of

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Speaker 1: the Deathmatch Championship and the XPW Heavyweight Championship, as well

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Speaker 1: as the title of Leader in XPW. He's like crushing it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: They're like, this is the year of the Villain. This

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Speaker 1: guy's winning all the matches. I love that the Messiah

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Speaker 1: is their villains, right, because he's like, I'm not four

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Speaker 1: all is trashy shit, um right, I'm Jesus. So he

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Speaker 1: came in as like the pure one. He was like

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Speaker 1: trying to beat everybody else for being gross. I think

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Speaker 1: so because originally apparently he debuted as Jesus, but he

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Speaker 1: hated that. He was like, I will not be Jesus.

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Speaker 1: He was like, you can call me Savior or the Messiah,

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Speaker 1: and they went with the Messiah, which I think is

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Speaker 1: a good Messiah. Is a good wrestling name, Yeah, for sure. Now.

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Speaker 1: He loved his XBW family, and he said that Lizzie

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Speaker 1: and Rob were some of his best friends. He would

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Speaker 1: have been cheering on Rob in April of two thousand one,

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Speaker 1: when Rob ran for mayor of Los Angeles as a

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Speaker 1: publicity stunt, which by the way, gained him seven votes.

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Speaker 1: It's not nothing. Probably all like extreme associates and their fans.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine that there was like some stranger out there.

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Speaker 1: He was like, yeah, this guy. Look, I've been surprised

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Speaker 1: by elections before. Let's just say so lord. Pro Wrestling

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Speaker 1: Stories dot Com writes, quote, many fans believed that the

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Speaker 1: Messiah would be xp W forever, but everything would change

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Speaker 1: just three months into his double championship reign. And we'll

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Speaker 1: get into those months right after this break. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to round two. Do they do rounds in pro wrestling?

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Speaker 1: I assume yeah, I don't know. So. Xp W had

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Speaker 1: a big match coming up in August two thou one,

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Speaker 1: with Rob Black and the Messiah facing off against two

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Speaker 1: other wrestlers named Sabu and Josh Lazy. I love, I

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Speaker 1: love Josh Lazy. That's my wrestling name, totally. Ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: laying it on a hundred and seventy five pounds, it's

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Speaker 1: Josh Lazy? Is he coming? Is he has? Anybody seen

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Speaker 1: Josh Lazy? And they have to reel out to like

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Speaker 1: put two recliners in the ring and they're just throw

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Speaker 1: and shut any chair. Don't make me get up, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't make me get up. I don't want to. I

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Speaker 1: really don't want to get out. I feel lazy today.

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Speaker 1: I want to go over and smack that guy. That

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Speaker 1: would actually be hilarious. Honestly, I would watch that. I

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Speaker 1: guess it would be very exciting. But if you had

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Speaker 1: like a clown like clowns in a circus, if you

403
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: had like a clown match in a wrestling thing. This

404
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: was two recliners, then I'm in. They should really call

405
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: us and they need more sketch comedy in pro wrestling. Right,

406
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Speaker 1: that's in, right now, give us a ring and ding.

407
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Speaker 1: It's not about the shock value anymore. It's about total absurdity, nonsense.

408
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: Maybe some prop comedy, pop comedy, squirting squirting, flowers and buzzers,

409
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Speaker 1: rubber chicken. Yes, I would get very into this wrestling world.

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Speaker 1: Let's start our promotions clown wrestling, extreme clown wrestling. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Josh Lazy versus Billy Hawk Shoes. Wow, Billy hunk Shoes

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Speaker 1: is a very different energy to me than Josh Lazy

413
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: is a lot more clownish. You stop on his feet

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Speaker 1: and his shoes. Go is he on one of those unicycles.

415
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Speaker 1: It's a little mini bicycle, a little tiny bicycle. This

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00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: is amazing. All right, well we're gonna have to leave

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Speaker 1: and work on this show, so y'all look up the

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Speaker 1: rest of the story. I don't know what happened. No,

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Speaker 1: just kidding, We wouldn't do that to you. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they have this match going. If Rob and the Messiah

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Speaker 1: win this match, Sabu would lose his job and be

422
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: kicked out of XPW Forever Stakes. Hi steaks. So yeah,

423
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: it's like a pretty big crowd wanted to see this.

424
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: It was like a whole big deal. But when the

425
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: event started, it began with a video of the Messiah

426
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: and he comes out and he tells Rob Black, I'm sorry, man,

427
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 1: I can't wrestle with you today. I have to go

428
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: back to Heaven. My shift is up calling me home.

429
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, with the Messiah flake on a friend like that?

430
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: What kind of savior is that? So anyway, Rob had

431
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: to go on with a different wrestler and they won

432
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: the match and Sabu was kicked out. But everyone in

433
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: the arena could tell that it wasn't really William Welch

434
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: in the video, so they were like, oh well, this

435
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: isn't some fun k fabe, which is what they call

436
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: like a staged thing that everybody pretends as real and

437
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: it easily leads to some fun dispute later, some big

438
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: surprise later or something. Um so they're like, well, this

439
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: isn't a kfabe, because otherwise it would have been really

440
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: the Messiah. Something must have gone down behind the scenes,

441
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: and so people are really curious, and rumors started flying

442
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: that a week before the match, Rob had found out

443
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: that William had slept with Lizzie Borden, and so he

444
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: immediately fired him from XPW, like, cut this fake video

445
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: to explain it. Okay, okay. Now, At first, William totally

446
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: denied this affair, and so cal Uncensored ran an article

447
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: about the rumor, and he actually contacted them to ask

448
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: them to take it down, and he agreed to do

449
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: an interview only a week after he was fired. He

450
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: told them that he had been going through some personal

451
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: stuff and that caused him to miss some practices and

452
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: matches and that quote Rob Black tried to help me

453
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: as much as he could, but William just wasn't being

454
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: very reliable, so they had to let him go. So

455
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: he's saying in that one, just like you know, standard

456
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: firing stuff. No, no bad blood there was no affair,

457
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: none of that, but William wasn't. In that interview, he

458
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: seems to agree with his firing and wonder if he

459
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: even had a future in wrestling. But by September he

460
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: was wrestling with Millennium Pro Wrestling MPW, and he appeared

461
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: in events all over southern California. And meanwhile, xp W

462
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: is kind of sucking up um. They had a New

463
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: Year's Revolution event in January. It piste off a lot

464
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: of fans because they promised all of these surprises that

465
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: would quote change wrestling history. But whatever was supposed to

466
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,239
Speaker 1: happen like probably fell through or something, because all they

467
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: did was bring like a couple homeless guys into the ring.

468
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: And so the fans were like that, I've been on

469
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: Rotten dot com. I've seen this, saying just two thousand two,

470
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: you can't shock me, right, I'm so desensitized. And then

471
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: they also promoted a buck naked match between Lizzie Borden

472
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 1: and Veronica Caine, in which the loser would be stripped naked.

473
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: And so these are two porn actresses that people had

474
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: seen perform, you know, so they're like, oh yeah, probably

475
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: all excited to see some titties. Oh, we can finally

476
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: see these porn actresses naked. Got to get down to

477
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: the arena, gotta get down there. But when the time

478
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: came to do the actual stripping, the lights were dimmed

479
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: so much that the fans couldn't only see anything, so

480
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: they didn't. They were booing and super pissed about that,

481
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: and they were like, where's the titties, um, even though

482
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: they probably shouldn't really have expected to see any real nudity.

483
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that seems like a uh something

484
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: you would definitely go, okay, sure, your right, you'll have

485
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: pasties honors. They're probably dim the lights the line. Now, now,

486
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,479
Speaker 1: where can I see these two women naked? It's kind

487
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: of like when I went I got taken to see

488
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: the Full Moon Team musical UM for one of my birthdays,

489
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: and there's a scene where they take their clothes off

490
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: and they got their dicks out. They silhouetted them, you know,

491
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: they had all the lights behind and you couldn't see anything,

492
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: and I some people were mad, and I was like,

493
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: who were you really expecting to see dicks in this musical? Like,

494
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: come on, no, but all these stunts they were doing

495
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: and promises they were making and breaking was just sort

496
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: of isolating their fan base. And in addition to these

497
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: fan problems, Extreme Associates, XPW's parent company that produced pornography,

498
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: had accepted an invitation to be filmed for PBS Frontline

499
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 1: for a documentary called American Porn. They wanted to shoot

500
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: a behind the scenes making of kind of things, so

501
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: Rob told Vice UK that he came up with a

502
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: liberally provocative storyline. Of course, that's that's Robb. He's like,

503
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: I want to shock them as much as I can

504
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: um and this would depict multiple women being raped, beaten,

505
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: spat on, and murdered by a serial killer who then

506
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: is himself murdered by a mob of vigilantes. The movie

507
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,479
Speaker 1: was called Forced Entry and Lizzie would be directing it.

508
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: The PBS crew gets there and starts doing their documentary thing,

509
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: and they found it all too hard to watch and

510
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: ended up walking out in disgusted. In the documentary, they

511
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: asked Rob if he was worried about a federal obscenity charge,

512
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: and Rob said, quote, We've got tons of stuff they

513
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: could technically arrest us for. I'm not out there saying

514
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: I want to be the test case. But I will

515
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: be the test case. I would welcome that, I would

516
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: welcome the publicity, I would welcome everything to make a

517
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: point in I guess our society. It sounds like he

518
00:30:53,960 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: really planned ahead. I make a point in society. Live

519
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: in a society. Damn it. Well. That quote certainly drew

520
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: the attention of the federal government. They took him right

521
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: up on this challenge and started investigating extreme associates in

522
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: the spring of two thousand two. You literally said, welcome

523
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: into my house. I've done tons of illegal things they

524
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: could arrest me for. I dare him too. Okay, Okay,

525
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: we'll come do our jobs. Sure, thanks for daring us. No,

526
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: I guess it's pretty cool to know exactly where to

527
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: look next. So on top of all of that, another

528
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: wrestling promotion was getting started called Epic. A guy named

529
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: Gary Yapp was doing it. He was a big XPW fan.

530
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: He got this going with a couple other wrestling managers

531
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: who had previously worked with XPW. William Welch the Messiah

532
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: was meant to be one of their featured wrestlers, and

533
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: one of their first matches featured several wrestlers who had

534
00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: also performed with x t XPW, so XPW sent Epic

535
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: letters saying that if any of their wrestlers performed with EPIC,

536
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: they would no longer be a part of XPW, and

537
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: most of the wrestlers chose to stay with XPW, which

538
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: makes sense because of course we're talking about a new promotion,

539
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: so they were probably like, well, I'll stick with the

540
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: one that tried and true. But in June at epics

541
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: debut show, the wrestler knew Jack, who had previously headlined

542
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: with XPW, trashed Rob Black and XPW. He called them

543
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: quote porn making, dick sucking motherfucker's who made quote generic

544
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: ass booty ass funck movies. I'm thinking that the generic

545
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: ass was probably the most insulting thing to Rob All

546
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 1: that he was like, generic, I literally have the Feds

547
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: up my ass right now, Geric, I got the Feds

548
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: so far up my ass. I'm going to make a

549
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: movie out of it. It's going to be called the

550
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: it's going to be called the Federal Raiders, Uh of

551
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: the Lost Arts, the Department of just Fist. Oh that's

552
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: pretty good. That's all right, man, I missed my now.

553
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: New Jack also mentioned in this promo that the Messiah

554
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: gave Lizzie quote the Ding Dong, which is so funny

555
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: after all his curse, saying he was like, but I

556
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: won't say cock like something, And later on the crowd

557
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: chanted you fucked Lizzie and the Messiah was out there,

558
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: and he replied she loved it, and so many took

559
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: this as a confession that the rumors were true. Although

560
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: I have to say, if you're like in the middle

561
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: of a ring with a lot of people screaming you

562
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: fucked someone, wouldn't you just be like, I mean, is

563
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: that the time to be like, no, I really didn't, Like,

564
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: let me tell you all the circumstances you probably you

565
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: know you're trying to rile them up, and so you

566
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: would say, yeah, she loved it. Terrible showmanship to say

567
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 1: anything else now, which I do hate though because of

568
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: course men do that all the time. Would be like,

569
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: I didn't that girl, but I'm gonna tell everyone I did,

570
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: and guess who they're going to believe for something. But

571
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: still I was like, I don't know. That sounds a

572
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: lot like just wrestling tar. You know, you're in the

573
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: ring and you're in a fictional setting like the world

574
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: you exist in right now, Nothing is real. It's like

575
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: when we go into speculation station, you know, we can

576
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: call out the most wild accusations. I could be in

577
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: speculation station and say the Messiah definitely fucked Lizzie Borden

578
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 1: and uh and thirty other people at the same time

579
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: on the top of the Chrysler building in sub zero temperatures,

580
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: and I would believe it. Yeah, well, but I'm in

581
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: speculation stations. You absolutely shouldn't know that's totally false. So

582
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: XPW and EPIC were in something of a cat fight here, Right,

583
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: you can't have my wrestlers. They can't if they go

584
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: to you, they can't. Right, But it's a little hard

585
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: to know how real any of that was. So much

586
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: of wrestling was setting up fake disputes to build matches around,

587
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: and Rob Act particularly wanted to be quote more hated

588
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: than Vince McMahon, which is quite a task, so he

589
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: might have eaten up all this free Epic publicity. But

590
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: then XPW held an event in July two thousand two

591
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: called Baptized in Blood that they wanted to be their

592
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: biggest thing in their whole history, because they were announcing

593
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: that they were moving to a new arena, so they

594
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: gave out a bunch of free tickets to fill up

595
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: the stands, and a couple of these free tickets were

596
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: claimed by none other than William Welch and a couple

597
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: of his friends, the Messiah himself and like he didn't

598
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: cause any trouble or anything, he just sat and watched it.

599
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: But the match went pretty badly. Um, the wrestlers kind

600
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 1: of lost the crowd quickly. Fans in the audience started

601
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: batting around a beach ball until XPW security caught it

602
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: and popped it, and they hated that. Of course, they

603
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: were like, they kept channing beachball, beach that they took

604
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: the beach ball. They're like, how dare you? I fun

605
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: with that? And then Lizzie Borden got on the mic

606
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: and called them all a bunch of quote beach ball

607
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: loving gay slurs. I'm not going to say that although

608
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: you beach ball love and motherfucker is like a great

609
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: if she didn't say the gaysler, it would have been

610
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: pretty funny, but but yeah, she so that's kind of

611
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: weird that they were like losing the crowd. And then

612
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: she's like, you know what, I'm gonna call him a

613
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: terrible name that but I mean it's again, it's wrestling,

614
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: So it's like maybe they would have liked that and

615
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: laughed at it. You never know, I guess. Anyway, Apparently

616
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: this show became known forever after as the beach Ball

617
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: Show and the Messiah and his friend sick Nick Mondo.

618
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: They left before the crowd got two riled up. They

619
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: kind of missed a lot of the headliner stuff about

620
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 1: the beach Ball or whatever. But Rob Black heard that

621
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: he'd been in the crowd, and he was reportedly furious

622
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: about it. And I kind of wonder if it was

623
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: less about oh, you know, this guy I don't like

624
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: in my my arena and more about like, oh, he's

625
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: in my arena when something really embarrassing happened, and maybe

626
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 1: incompetent and like I'm on my way down. Yeah. Yeah.

627
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: So eleven days later, on August first of two thousand two,

628
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: William was sitting in his living room playing a video

629
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: game when two guys walked into his house. At first,

630
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: William thought they were just friends of his roommates, and

631
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: he even said, Hey, what's up, guys, and they said,

632
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: what's going on? Man? And so he just kept playing

633
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: video games until he saw in the TV reflection that

634
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: they were pointing at him and conferring together in low voices.

635
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: Suddenly they jumped him, and of course William is a

636
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: pro wrestler, so he's not an easy guy to take down.

637
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: They're doing a real wrestling in this living room. And

638
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: eventually these these guys are big dudes themselves. You don't

639
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: send two scrunny kids to take down the Messiah. And

640
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: they managed to pin him down to the ground. They

641
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: pulled out a pair of gardening shears and they cut

642
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: off will Him's thumb out he said it quote popped

643
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: right off wrong. I think that's a terrible word. Your

644
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: thumb should not pop right off. That is horrible. So

645
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: he tried to escape, but he couldn't turn the lock

646
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: on the door without his thumb, which is like a

647
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: little a little funny. It's not it's horrible, but it's

648
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: if it were in a movie and I'm seeing m

649
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: Danny McBride playing this part and run and then trying

650
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: to turn the dead bolt, and it's just squirting all

651
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: over the door, and that's kind of hilarious. I mean,

652
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: that is pretty funny. Again, what is um mel Brooks says,

653
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: tragedy is I get a paper cut. Comedy is you

654
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: fall down an open man hole. So then they tried

655
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 1: to like duct tape him up and cut off his

656
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: other thumbs. But Williams still struggling. He was trying to

657
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: save his gorgeous body. It's like, I don't want to

658
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: be killed. So his attackers hit him in the head

659
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: with a fish tank. God. Now this is a very

660
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: glancing reference to this in the article. They did not

661
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: give very much information, and I thought it was so weird,

662
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: Like was the fish tank full of water and fish?

663
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 1: Was it empty? Did they drop it on his head

664
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: or like pull it down on him. The only way

665
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: I can see this happening is that they pulled They

666
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: had him up against the counter that it was on,

667
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: and they pulled it down on top of him. So

668
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: it's like wet everywhere. Oh yeah, fish flopping, a flopping

669
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: glass all over the place. I mean that paints me

670
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: a picture. Now let's put that in the article next time.

671
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: You could kill somebody like that. Quite all the glass

672
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: fish tank, I mean, I mean eight pounds a gallon

673
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: for water, so that's a lot. And then all the

674
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: weight of the glass. If they had any rocks or

675
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: m that's so true, no, thank you. So anyway, that

676
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: dazed him enough. Obviously, as we said, don't get hit

677
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: by fish tanks. That totally dazed him. And they started

678
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: to pull off his belt. So he's like, I don't

679
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: know for sure if they were going for my penis

680
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: to cut it off, but I mean that's probably what

681
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: they were doing, I would think. So they could not

682
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: get his pants off, so they continued to like hit

683
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: him with furniture, and they were apparently kind of stabbing

684
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: at his leg and sort of stabbed him once in

685
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: the upper thigh just to try to knock him out,

686
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: and I guess finished the job. This was early two thousand's,

687
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna go ahead and guess that this was

688
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: a braided belt, which are a pain in the ass

689
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: and I would never wear one, but if this happened

690
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: to me, I would probably never wear anything. But like,

691
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: that's a little more complicated to get the thing out.

692
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: That's true, he might get stuck a little more. Like

693
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: thank God for this stupid belt being so hard to

694
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: take off. I never even thought of that. So yeah,

695
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: they're like trying to knock him out, But I mean,

696
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: we're talking about a guy who gets hit in the

697
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 1: head for a living, so that didn't exactly work, and

698
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 1: they finally gave up and they ran off and fled

699
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: into the night. So the attackers didn't take anything from

700
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: the house except for William's thumb, so authorities were pretty

701
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: certain that they had come there specifically to assault William

702
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: and probably took his thumb as proof that they've done

703
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: the job, or at least part of it, and William

704
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: was pretty certain they've been sent there by Rob Black.

705
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: Only thirty days after this, he wrestled at an event

706
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: for Combat Zone Wrestling or CZW and told the crowd

707
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: to tune into America's Most Wanted in September to get

708
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: a pretty good idea of who was behind the attack.

709
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: The episode took it for granted that Rob was the culprit.

710
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: They even went to Extreme Associates offices to confront Rob

711
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: Black for the show, but all they found were locked doors.

712
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: I guess they didn't have their thumbs. No charges were

713
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: ever brought against anyone for this attack. Now, Rob was

714
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: asked about this incident in Vice UK and he told them, quote,

715
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: wrestling is never what you believe. We had people who

716
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: bought into the story and got publicity out of it.

717
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: But I was like, but the guy's thumb is actually

718
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: it's not fake missing, So like, I feel like we

719
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: still want some answers. What is this? He lose it

720
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 1: in a construction accident and then was like, hey, guys,

721
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: we could probably make a good story out of this,

722
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: right He was like, I was at home playing video

723
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: games somehow sliced my own thumb off and decided to

724
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: turn it into a whole thing. I don't know, but um,

725
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: And there is zero mention of the Messiah on either

726
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: Lizzie or Rob's Wikipedia pages. In many articles with them,

727
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: neither has ever commented on it, and all the William

728
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: Welch will continue to do. He still does interviews and

729
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: it always gets brought up, and he usually says about

730
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: the same thing every time. So it's very interesting that

731
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: they just never said a word about it since, or

732
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: scrubbed it off their pages maybe or whatever. I don't know,

733
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: But to be fair, they both had bigger fish to

734
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 1: fry when Extreme Associates was rated by the federal government

735
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three, so we'll find out more

736
00:42:54,360 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: about their fight with the Feds right after this. Oh,

737
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: welcome back to Round three. Authorities seized five of their movies,

738
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: and these are the titles of those five movies. Brace Yourself,

739
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:26,240
Speaker 1: Extreme teen asked clowns, three cocktails too fourth century and

740
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: number five A thousand and one, Ways to eat my

741
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: jes too many ways? How all right? First you want

742
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: to get your instant pot. First, they have to refrigerate

743
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: this for eight hours. All right, now we're gonna work

744
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: with a little confie A thousand and one. They were

745
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: hit with multiple obscenity charges and they were facing decades

746
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 1: in prison and millions of dollars and fines. Of course,

747
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: Rob and Lizzie were a little too bold to care.

748
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: They even rebranded and sold the five films as the

749
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: Federal five. So for him, the issue didn't have a

750
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: lot of logic. He argued device UK that, first of all,

751
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: Extreme Associates didn't distribute those seized films to video stores.

752
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,959
Speaker 1: You had to go to their website or call them

753
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: to find it and order it specifically, so it's not

754
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: like anyone was forced to watch this content or even

755
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,479
Speaker 1: stumbled onto it by accident. Further, he thought they didn't

756
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: have a leg to stand on. Of the five films

757
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: they seized, they only indicted them for three, he told

758
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: vice quote. So either the grand jury said those two

759
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: other movies weren't obscene or the government didn't present those

760
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: movies to the grand jury. And one of those movies

761
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: was asked Clowns three, where Jesus comes off the cross

762
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: after being crucified and rapes an angel. So now my

763
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: question and is why is the rape and asked Clowns?

764
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: All right, but the rape enforced entry isn't um So

765
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: that's his question religious freedom. I mean, I don't know

766
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: that's a fair point. I mean it's like, why why

767
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: is this one bad? But that one's not. Maybe the

768
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: FBI was like, yeah, we seized three movies from him.

769
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: Here you go watch him, and they just took the

770
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: other two homes. They were like, listen, ask Clowns is

771
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: actually really good? Also, why is asked Clowns the one

772
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: where Jesus comes off the cross. Come up with a

773
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: better The title did not leave me to believe, like

774
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: the First Temptation of Christ, the best temptation of whatever.

775
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's some first temptations. I'm really stuck

776
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: on fist right, duck on a fist right now. So

777
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: one of the main problems seems to be that enforced entry.

778
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: Lizzie starts the film by saying on camera that the

779
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: woman starring in the movie doesn't know what's about to

780
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: happen to her, so they kind of blur the line

781
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: for the audience, at least on the simulation part of

782
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: all this assault in rape. However, Rob says that that

783
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: was all for shock value and show to to just

784
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: make it more shocking to watch. The star of the

785
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: movie was Veronica Caine, which is someone who they had

786
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: worked with for years. Uh, He's like, she knew exactly

787
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: what was going to happen. You know that she's like

788
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: Lizzie's best friend and you know she everything's cool, don't worry. Um.

789
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: And he also claimed that PBS front Lines discussed was

790
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 1: as staged as the porn itself, because he pointed out

791
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 1: that of course they made sure to have a second

792
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: camera unit standing by to film them walking out into

793
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: when they stormed off of the set, trying to make

794
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: their documentary right, And he was like, I mean, it's

795
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: just they're also staging for you of a reaction to

796
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 1: this that isn't necessarily honest, right, But yeah, he says

797
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: in Vice UK quote the entire thing was staged. We

798
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: had a wrestling company at the time, and our job

799
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: was to make things look real that we're fake, and

800
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: we made a lot of money doing it, so, you know,

801
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: he was like, it's all fake. Everyone involved knew it

802
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: was fake. They even had a blooper reel apparently, which

803
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: is hilarious to me. But there was all the actors

804
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: joking around and having a good time on set. This

805
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: girl's getting chained to a wall and she was like, no, no, wait, wait,

806
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: what is my line here? Oh my god, I always

807
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: forget her. No, she goes. She's like, oh no, fuck me.

808
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: Oh wait wait o, sorry, I shouldn't say me because

809
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to. Oh my god, it's so stupid.

810
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: Like I said a line from the last movie that

811
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: we just filed forty five minutes ago. I can I

812
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 1: get another take? Do we have time? All right? Someone

813
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: pouder my notes. Now, At first it looked like the

814
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: law was going to agree with rob. A Circuit court

815
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: judge dismissed the charges in two thousand five, saying that

816
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: the right to privacy meant that anyone in America was

817
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 1: free to view whatever material they wanted in the evacy

818
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: of their own home. However, a year later, the Department

819
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: of Justice appealed the decision and it was overturned. The

820
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: argument was that, yes, the right to privacy means that

821
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: people can watch whatever they want, but it doesn't mean

822
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: anyone has the right to make the obscene material in

823
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: the first place. So you can watch anything that's out there,

824
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: but you can't make it. It's kind of like cannabis

825
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: laws in Georgia. It's like you can't get in trouble

826
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: for having it, but you can get in trouble for

827
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: growing it or bringing it here, buying it, distributing it,

828
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: anything like that. If it's somehow magically appears in your pocket,

829
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: I guess it's it's a present from Jesus. Rob Black

830
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: appealed to a lot of Porne's biggest names, including Larry Flint,

831
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,760
Speaker 1: for financial support during this dragged out legal process, saying

832
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: he was standing up for all of them, but no

833
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 1: one answered his call. And I've been wondering, uh, if

834
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: maybe he thought that when he first challenged the federal

835
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: government to come to him, like, oh, I'll just be

836
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: the center of this big with the federal government versus

837
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 1: the porn industry. And the whole porn industry will have

838
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: to have my back. And then they were like, no,

839
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: we're not, we're not getting sucked in that we had

840
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 1: a good thing going. Buddy, I think you're right, because

841
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: he clearly was surprised that they were kind of like,

842
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: oh no, we don't actually care about preserving grape simulation

843
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: and stuff. Like if it was something else, maybe they

844
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: would have been involved, but not that. He's like, all right,

845
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: porn producers assemble, it looks around and it's just anybody disappointing. So,

846
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: since no one was coming to their aid and they

847
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: couldn't really afford to continue their legal fees, Rob and

848
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: Lizzy had to agree to a plea deal. XPW had

849
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: already stopped producing events in two thousand three, and now

850
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: Extreme Associates folded two. They each were sentenced to a

851
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: year and a day in prison, although a clerical mistake

852
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 1: which listed Rob as a sex offender meant that when

853
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: he reported to prison, they threw him in solitary confinement

854
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: for a month. Now that yeah, and he was like

855
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 1: it was torture, you know. It's like, solitary is horrible,

856
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: and he's not wrong. Solitary is sucked up, and I

857
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: was kind of thinking, especially for a guy like Rob

858
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: who is so addicted to audiences, he so wants a

859
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: reaction from people, that I wonder if he even knows

860
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 1: who he is when he's alone. Oh yeah, that's true too.

861
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: So Rob and Lizzie made it through this whole federal fights,

862
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: a year in prison, separated, and all this other crazy

863
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: drama of their lives. They made it through all that together.

864
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: But they divorced, and I gotta wonder what the final

865
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: straw was. Can we pull into speculation station? Do you

866
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: have any thoughts? She just he just really loaded the

867
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: dishwasher wrong, and that was it. That was the most

868
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: egregious thing he did. She's like, you put mugs in

869
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: the bottom rack? Are you insane? Out of here? No

870
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: second chances. All our history is going in the So

871
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: Lizzie now does horror burlesque. She sings in a band

872
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: called Ghost in Your Heart with her boyfriend maybe husband,

873
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. His name's Mark. William Welch had a

874
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: pretty successful independent wrestling career. He was inducted into the

875
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: CDW and so called Deathmatch Halls of Fame in twenty nineteen,

876
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: but he's now retired from wrestling. He's married with children.

877
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: Rob started a radio show that he says is a

878
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: liberal answer to Rush Limbaugh, and The Daily Beast said

879
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: that he had like everyone in the pornography world riveted

880
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: to his show for a good minute because he was

881
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: spilling a lot of industry secrets about like mistreatment of

882
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: actors and actresses or unsafe practices on sets and stuff

883
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: like that. That's an important thing to talk about totally,

884
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 1: and I think I think that's cool that he was

885
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: willing to do it. Um. He definitely was like the

886
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: Internet ruined the industry. There's there's nothing here anywhere. Um.

887
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: But he was calling out a lot of like you know,

888
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: not letting people wear condoms or like stuff like that. Like,

889
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: so I was like, that's pretty cool that he's saying that.

890
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: And there's definitely some people came out and said he's

891
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: a liar and that's not true, and other people are like,

892
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: thank god, he's saying it's right. Who's to say except

893
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: for people who do it, not me? And then he

894
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: tried bringing back XPW but it never took off. He

895
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: never got the funding to get back to his wild

896
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: and crazy wrestling days. Um. And now he is also

897
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: married with children, So everyone's fine in this story. They're

898
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: all kicking out there, kicking doing stuff that's rare for

899
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: our show, especially for people who went through such extreme stuff,

900
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: who were involved in such outrageous activities, that the ending

901
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: is kind of like, yeah, now they're all just kind

902
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: of married with kids. Yeah. Wow. For Lizzy you said

903
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: she was I'm sure she ever wanted kids. She has dogs,

904
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: right for you. Yeah, I get that. I get that.

905
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: It's I want to go back to talking about something

906
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: earlier when Rob Black compared or sort of justified the

907
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 1: making of his movies versus Hollywood movies, where he's talking

908
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: about that they you know, have rape scenes and you know,

909
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: extreme violence and decapitations and all kinds of crazy stuff

910
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: you see in Hollywood movies and saying, you know, so,

911
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 1: why can't I include that in porn? And on one hand,

912
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: I totally agree with him. Uh, you know that it's

913
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: it's insane what we put in movies and I watched.

914
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not a big I'm not a huge

915
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: horror person. Graphic violence isn't my favorite thing. Sometimes it

916
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: works for me, but um, but but go for it.

917
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people love it, and I'd

918
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: say go for it. But I think the difference is

919
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: what you want the audience to be getting out of it,

920
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: because typically in Hollywood movies, if there is a scene

921
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: of violence or a rape scene or something like that,

922
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: you're meant to be kind of horrified. You're meant to

923
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I'm just I'm seeing disturbing images. I

924
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: disturbed that was this is a bad guy. You know.

925
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: All of that stuff is sort of set up, whereas

926
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 1: the intention of the porn movie is more like, I'm

927
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 1: getting off to this. I'm I want to see this

928
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: because I'm enjoying it. I'm getting something positive out of this,

929
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: And I think that intention sort of matters as opposed

930
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: to I don't know, maybe he's saying, well, you're not

931
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: supposed to get off to it. It's supposed to be

932
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: just like a horror movie. Or you think it's sucked

933
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: up and crazy and you like watching it, but you

934
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: know it's bad. Maybe that's true too, But then I'm like,

935
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 1: we'll just make a Then it's not porn, Yeah, exactly,

936
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 1: So why is it porn except just to be more

937
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 1: extreme than horror? Something right, right, and not to say

938
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 1: that it shouldn't exist or he you know, shouldn't be

939
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: making it or whatever. But I think equating the two

940
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: is is tough for me because the intention is the difference.

941
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 1: I think you're right, and that makes it a little thorny,

942
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: you know, because you're like, I'm all for freedom of expression,

943
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: freedom of speech. I want people to make whatever the

944
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard because again with this obscenity thing

945
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 1: that's the government being like, any porn at all makes

946
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: you into a total deviant and you turn into this perv,

947
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: you know, and that's sort of all Black was like,

948
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: I'm I'm only out here trying to get the whole

949
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: porn industry behind me, because it's not just me. They're

950
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: just starting with me because I'm an easy target. They

951
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: don't come for you too, you know. They don't want

952
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 1: any porn at all, even the lovey dovey stuff that

953
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: all the ladies are making, I guess or whatever. So

954
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: he was kind of saying that like it was a

955
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,800
Speaker 1: slippery I hate this, but slippery slope. Um. But yeah, Actually,

956
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: Salon did ask Lizzie about this. Salon is something of

957
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 1: a feminist magazine, and so this author watched Janelle Brown

958
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: did watch Forced Entry, and she was saying, you know,

959
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: I'm watching it, and I know that these are consensual acts.

960
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: I know that these are actors who have had sex

961
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: with each other dozens of times before, all kinds of

962
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: movies and whatever. But she also said quote still, I

963
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 1: was so traumatized by the movie that it brought me

964
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: to tears. It was like witnessing a real rape, seeing

965
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: the nadier of man's contempt for womenkind brought to life

966
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 1: with no holds barred. So I could see that too,

967
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 1: even if you're aware that it's not meant to be

968
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: I guess realistic is not the word, because it is

969
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 1: meant to be realistic. But anyway you're you're supposed to

970
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: understand that is simulated. It's all fake, but it's enough

971
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 1: real that you have this reaction to it of like,

972
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: I'm really uncomfortable with people watching this and being happy

973
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: about it or getting any positive experience out of it,

974
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: and it makes you feel unsafe as a woman, I

975
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: guess just out there in the wild. Yeah, yeah, I mean,

976
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: compare it to pro wrestling, right, you see a guy

977
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: get hit in the face of a chair, and you

978
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: know that's staged and they've done this. You know, they've

979
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: got special chairs, they're doing it in such a way

980
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: that they've practiced, they know what they're doing. Um, but

981
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: you're still like, oh yeah, you feel it. I feel

982
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 1: like I get hit in the face with a chair. UM.

983
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: So I can see definitely why these lines blur and

984
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 1: why they kind of cross industries. UM. My other question

985
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: about it is, you know you've got the federal courtrooms

986
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: watching these movies and being like, we need to prosecute

987
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: for all this horrible stuff you're depicting, and and even

988
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: going so far as to say you've got Lizzie Borden

989
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: saying this is real. They didn't know about this right. Well,

990
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, so are these oscar worthy actresses in

991
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: these things, like are you out performing Monica Bellucci and

992
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,959
Speaker 1: Emily Blunt like in these rape scenes and these porn

993
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: movies that are just like I can't tell what's real anymore,

994
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: because if they are, these actors should be getting much

995
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 1: better job. It doesn't seem fair to me. I know

996
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: that's a good point too. I Mean again, I think

997
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: it was just through a lot of like evangelicals, pressure

998
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: and other just very family focus type groups and ship

999
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 1: like that. They were just kind of like, any sex

1000
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: is bad sex. But of course these are not very

1001
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: sympathetic people. They're making rape simulations and all this gross ship,

1002
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: and they're easy to hate, and so everyone in the

1003
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: public will hate them, and they won't be mad at

1004
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,439
Speaker 1: us for maybe stepping on your American right to watch

1005
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: whatever the funk you want at the comfort of your

1006
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: own home. Um. Again, that's kind of what Rob was saying,

1007
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: was He's like, I'm just saying they'll start with me

1008
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: and that's fine, but they'll get to you one day

1009
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: with your missionary sex foreign or whatever. And I will say, salon,

1010
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: did ask Lizzie about this? Janelle writes, quote, this is

1011
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: the most disturbing aspect of her films, the fact that

1012
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: viewers watch these movies as a way of getting off

1013
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 1: what kind of person masterbase to the site of girls

1014
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: being slapped, drinking their own vomit, or being raped. This

1015
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: is the only question that gives board and pause. And

1016
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: then she goes on to say that she kind of

1017
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: brushes it off by insisting that really, quote, those creeps

1018
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 1: who get turned on by the violence in her films

1019
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: are actually you being taught a lesson. She argues, that

1020
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: many of her films are moral tales based on quote

1021
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: unquote real stories you might read in the news, in

1022
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: which the bad guy or girl gets caught. In the end,

1023
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: a bad alcoholic mother runs over her babysitter and her

1024
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: son and ends up slashing her wrists after having sex

1025
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: with assorted strangers. First, the rapist enforced entry is murdered

1026
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 1: by a vigilante mob. A woman with a cheating husband

1027
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: leaves him in the end. If you watch it and

1028
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: don't fast forward it, and if you think about it,

1029
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,959
Speaker 1: you'll see there's a moral to it. Boarden argues, most

1030
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: of this is awareness. I try to show what could

1031
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: happen to you. Do this violent act and you're gonna

1032
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: get fucked up. Instead of believing, as some do, that

1033
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: linking sex and violence encourages rape. She points out that

1034
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: people get turned on by violence against women in movies

1035
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 1: like Halloween or The Accused all the time, the only

1036
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: difference being that they don't actually see the sex. Now.

1037
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: I did like that the serial killer also was murdered himself.

1038
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: I guess that's a satisfactory into that story in a way.

1039
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: But um, I'm not sure that people are necessarily learning

1040
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 1: a lesson. So I feel like that's a nice thing

1041
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: to make you feel better, but I don't know. Again,

1042
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: now we can't ignore that we're putting in this context

1043
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: of a time where shock value was so huge and

1044
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: the idea you know, this was before trending ship on

1045
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 1: the Internet, so it was it was all like pass

1046
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: around word of mouth. Oh have you heard about this

1047
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: crazy thing? I mean early Internet but not streaming HD

1048
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: video and stuff. So a lot of it was how

1049
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: far can I spread this content in this world where

1050
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 1: it's hard to spread content? Uh, and being shocking was

1051
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: a way to do that. So so you can see

1052
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: how maybe it's not about this is not something to

1053
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: get off to. This is just something to make you

1054
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:57,919
Speaker 1: bring up to someone else. Have you seen this crazy shit?

1055
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: Have you heard of this? I gotta show you this thing.

1056
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: It's the craziest thing you'll ever see, you know. Not

1057
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 1: let's let's all go watch and jerk off of this movie,

1058
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: but like, oh my god, you're not going to believe

1059
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: what they did in this movie, right, So it just

1060
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: becomes this sort of shock value disbelief kind of thing

1061
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: that was the way to reach more eyes and years

1062
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: back then. Hum, like we said, you saw it all

1063
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: over music, you saw it over comedy, you saw it

1064
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: all over everything. Yeah, I mean, yeah, jackass, they're like

1065
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 1: swimming in porta potties. Yeah yeah on fear factor, they're

1066
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 1: eating pigs Rectum's right, drinking blood and stuff. So yeah,

1067
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: I mean you can see why the line would be

1068
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: blurred for them particularly and be like, I don't understand

1069
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: what the difference is. For me, it's all the same.

1070
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: But for people who maybe did not grow up in

1071
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: this counterculture life in the adult business and stuff, it

1072
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: feels like too far and it's not like you know, uh,

1073
01:01:55,800 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: Stanford is out here conducting studies about like everyone who

1074
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: watches these movies and how many of them go on

1075
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 1: to murder and rape themselves? You know, is it influencing

1076
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 1: people in that regard or or what? Because it's it's

1077
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 1: kind of like the violent video games argument, right, how

1078
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: do you know? How do you know? And how do

1079
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: you know it would have been any different if they

1080
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: didn't have the violent video games? Right? I mean that

1081
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 1: was the argument too, was like, well, people have been

1082
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: killing people since the dawna time that I have no

1083
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: video games. They just didn't like each other, period, So

1084
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I feel you, and especially

1085
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 1: because that variable is there, you can't take it out anymore,

1086
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: so you can't really know for sure. But yeah, it's

1087
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: an interesting conversation, the obscenity thing and like what's what's

1088
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 1: too far in speech and depiction? And I mean he

1089
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: has a good point too, that it's not like they

1090
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 1: were like handing this ship out in the street or

1091
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: something like you had to go ask for it, so

1092
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: you know, they could make it and never sell one,

1093
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: but somebody came and asked for it, and so they

1094
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: sold it. I don't know. Is it more the user's

1095
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 1: problem then, which of course is way different now from

1096
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 1: the Internet, where it's like once you make it, it's

1097
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: available to everyone no matter what you do. You could

1098
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: say you have to call me to get this video.

1099
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: Someone's going to call you get it, and then now

1100
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: it's out in the world, there's no seal. I mean

1101
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: that that bubble is broken. That actually became a big

1102
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: thing for the case apparently later on in you know,

1103
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: nine and ten and stuff, where he was like, the

1104
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 1: thing is is that the whole thing was that the

1105
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: right to privacy is you're in your own home and

1106
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 1: so nobody gets to tell you what you're watching. But

1107
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: they were kind of saying that lions got real blurred

1108
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: with the Internet because you're still in your own home,

1109
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: but it's not just yours anymore, right, um So it's

1110
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: kind of got blurred not only for the government, but

1111
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: for the porn producers saying, oh, well, now this is

1112
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: a little what can I do? What can't I do?

1113
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: That's distributed online? You know, it just became like a

1114
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: real touchy kind of situation. Um at that, especially in

1115
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: the early days of the Internet when obviously one of

1116
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: the first things we used it for it was the

1117
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 1: way to jerk off like that where all of our

1118
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: technological advancements come from. It's either how do we kill

1119
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: someone with this? Or how do we make sexual gratification

1120
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: out of this? Yeah, all of our advances and science

1121
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 1: have been based around those two things. Well, it's not

1122
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: often that I'm left without a strong opinion about something,

1123
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 1: but I'm a little unsure of how to feel in

1124
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 1: the end of this one. Yeah, I think it's I

1125
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 1: think it's tough about their case. I mean, they're they're

1126
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 1: romance interesting enough, you know, this whole Messiah thing. I

1127
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: guess he did sleep with Lizzie Borden. The fact that

1128
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:40,920
Speaker 1: they were going to cut his dick off makes me

1129
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: feel like it was Rob Black very specifically, being like,

1130
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: you put your dick somewhere, it wasn't supposed to be.

1131
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to take it away, but you don't know.

1132
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 1: I also don't get the impression that William Welch has

1133
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 1: like a ton of enemies through something. So I was like,

1134
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: who else that might be? Wise? He's like, there's only

1135
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,919
Speaker 1: one guy mad at me right now, right, and he's

1136
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: a guy who would know a bunch of big, strong

1137
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: dudes and he pays them, so he would have paid them,

1138
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 1: and then they come over and sunk me up. So

1139
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: I I again, let me pull into Speculation on Station

1140
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: and say Rob Black definitely did that ship. I think

1141
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: he definitely did that ship. Even if William didn't fuck Lizzie.

1142
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: You know, he might have just been like it's enough

1143
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 1: that people think it. Yeah, I like, um, I like

1144
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: the shield for speculations. Excuse me, your honor, But I

1145
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: was in Speculation Station, so that's not slander. Actually not

1146
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: doesn't count. So let us know what you thought. Yeah,

1147
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: don't send us your porn, but send us your thoughts.

1148
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you, you know about this episode,

1149
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 1: about any episode, about episodes that we might do in

1150
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: the future. Shoot us an email. You know Romance at

1151
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 1: iHeart Media dot com, right o over on social media,

1152
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Dynamite Boom, and I'm at

1153
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 1: Oh great, It's eli. The show is at ridict Romance

1154
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: and we are so excited to be bringing you more

1155
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: content later this week and forever on into the future.

1156
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Anne Simon for suggesting this story. It

1157
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: was definitely a really interesting dive into the whole obscenity

1158
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: case and everything else. There's just a lot going on

1159
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 1: with that, so I really appreciate that. Thanks awesome and

1160
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 1: thanks and and we will see you all the next episode.

1161
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: Can't wait so long, friends, It's time to go. Thanks

1162
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: so listening to our show. Tell your friends name's uncle

1163
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 1: sandece to listen to our show Ridiculous Roll Dance.