Speaker 1: I've heard that there's a house that has some bodies
Speaker 1: in the basement.
Speaker 2: Somebody told you that Shakaia was a victim of human trafficking.
Speaker 3: I'm come to find out. This is like it exploded
Speaker 3: into this huge thing.
Speaker 4: I knew, I just knew something was wrong.
Speaker 5: Police say thirty three year old Jared Bride Again was
Speaker 5: shot dead.
Speaker 4: I kept calling his phone during the drive.
Speaker 6: Gunned down in front of his two year old daughter.
Speaker 3: It's a murder of the stun Jack Speach neighbors.
Speaker 7: His murder has attracted national attention, with the investigators saying
Speaker 7: he was targeted.
Speaker 4: Eventually a police officer answered and told me to come
Speaker 4: to the police station.
Speaker 8: Justice is something that takes different shapes or forms.
Speaker 5: If you know something, heard something, please it's never too
Speaker 5: late to.
Speaker 2: Do the right thing.
Speaker 3: So I'm Dana Thompson aka Body Movin, and.
Speaker 8: I'm John Green. For about a decade, Deanna and I
Speaker 8: spent a lot of time on the Internet, especially in
Speaker 8: the underbelly of the Internet, trying to identify and get
Speaker 8: animal abusers arrested.
Speaker 3: We spent countless hours scouring the dark web helping catch predators.
Speaker 3: We spent over a year and a half trying to
Speaker 3: get law enforcement to take us seriously about a man
Speaker 3: that was killing cats online and he was threatening to
Speaker 3: move on to kill humans. And that was Luca mcnatta.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you might have heard about the Netflix special called
Speaker 8: Don't Fuck with Cats.
Speaker 3: That's us. Well, now we're turning our online investigator skills
Speaker 3: to some of the most unexplained, unsolved, and just ignored cases.
Speaker 8: This is True Crimes, the production of iHeartRadio and Katie's Studios.
Speaker 3: Camera. Yeah, it's Deanna. How are you, darling.
Speaker 9: I'm doing good, so good to hear from you.
Speaker 10: I really don't talk to too many people about Chikai
Speaker 10: because I get scared, you know, I don't.
Speaker 4: I get worried.
Speaker 10: Because when I found when they told me she was
Speaker 10: a victim of human trafficking, they gave me a list
Speaker 10: of names, and I was shocked because these people I
Speaker 10: watched me cry, you know, so I didn't know who
Speaker 10: I couldn't trust.
Speaker 2: So somebody told you that Chicaia was a victim of
Speaker 2: human trafficking.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 10: Back in January of twenty twenty, the detective called me
Speaker 10: in and asked me if I would tell KaiA thing
Speaker 10: all over again. So I did, and he said, I
Speaker 10: have somebody that wants to talk to you want to
Speaker 10: talk to him? I said, yeah, let's talk to anybody.
Speaker 3: And so this guy.
Speaker 10: Madgin know, I cannot even remember his name because I
Speaker 10: was like, my my mom blake when they told me
Speaker 10: that he came in here and he told me, he said,
Speaker 10: you were talked about a couple of people of interest.
Speaker 10: He said that was JJ Johnson and Tommy Medicine out.
Speaker 10: And so he told me he said, Chicai is a
Speaker 10: victim of human traffick king.
Speaker 2: This was somebody in law enforcement, a detective or an
Speaker 2: FBI agent.
Speaker 10: He was a human traffick king investigator for the Yellowstoam County.
Speaker 10: My my mom blank because that when he gave me
Speaker 10: the list of names, I was like, I was shocked.
Speaker 3: I felt so betrayed. What was the list of names?
Speaker 3: Like in like in reference to like what they say?
Speaker 3: The list of names?
Speaker 4: Was like, yeah, yeah, what I can send you that?
Speaker 10: This the names they gave me.
Speaker 4: It was crazy.
Speaker 10: I was shocked, like, why would they even give me
Speaker 10: this listen name?
Speaker 3: Why would they give that to you?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 10: Because I'm my first song. So I called my friend
Speaker 10: and Charlotte, I said, because I would lay here and
Speaker 10: plot how I was going to get to these guys
Speaker 10: and make them, you know. And so finally I said,
Speaker 10: well I need to get out of her start you know,
Speaker 10: some of these some of these thoughts.
Speaker 3: Later, we spoke with our producer Jeff Shane about this
Speaker 3: new information and he had.
Speaker 8: Some news too.
Speaker 11: So I have a bit of yeah, a bit of
Speaker 11: an update. So I was messaging with Tamara Kaia's mom
Speaker 11: last night on Facebook and was asking if she could
Speaker 11: send us those lists of names that she said she had,
Speaker 11: and right away sent them over. I'm going to send
Speaker 11: them to you guys. I'm going to text you them now.
Speaker 2: That's okay, yeah, right, I.
Speaker 3: Gotta pick Oh, okay, it's a picture. Oh she Oh,
Speaker 3: it's a picture of the list.
Speaker 11: So this was something she said that the law enforcement
Speaker 11: gave her she did. This is not her handwriting, this
Speaker 11: is law enforcements handwriting.
Speaker 3: Really, there's a lot of females on this list. Interesting.
Speaker 3: Oh oh my god. The second picture Romelo big Day.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, I'm surprised to see his name on there.
Speaker 2: That's so we're looking at a piece of paper with
Speaker 2: I don't know fifteen to twenty different names written on here.
Speaker 2: And obviously Deanna and I are looking for people that
Speaker 2: we thought were somehow associated with or had something to
Speaker 2: do with Zakai's disappearance, and one of those names is
Speaker 2: on here. The name that I thought would be on
Speaker 2: here isn't. That's the one that gets that's.
Speaker 11: You know, well, are you talking about Rico?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 11: I too noticed that Rico's name was not on this list.
Speaker 11: So I asked Samara about Rico, and she said that
Speaker 11: the investigator who wrote this list told her that these
Speaker 11: were people who were recruiting girls for Rica.
Speaker 3: This is Rico's list. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 11: This is like, these are Rico's people.
Speaker 12: Yeah.
Speaker 11: So Rico's like the head honcho and these are heads henchmen.
Speaker 2: Wow, he's got a lot of people out in the
Speaker 2: streets doing his work for him.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's surprising. I mean, I knew Ramelo was like
Speaker 3: a subservient to Rico in some fashion, but I wasn't
Speaker 3: sure what exactly the connection was.
Speaker 2: So again, this is the list that somebody in law
Speaker 2: enforcement provided Sakaia's family, saying that these people were out
Speaker 2: recruiting girls on the street and doing it for Rico. Wow,
Speaker 2: this is a long list.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, this is great when you say this was
Speaker 3: written by law enforcement and provided, you know, like to Tamara,
Speaker 3: it's like literally in black and white now right, It's
Speaker 3: it's totally tangible. And seeing Ramelo's name on this list
Speaker 3: gaves me chills because I looked at him so hard,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? I looked at him so hard.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure and I'm sure a lot of these
Speaker 2: are probably social media names that if you were to
Speaker 2: go to Romelo Big Days, you would find that person
Speaker 2: as a friend.
Speaker 3: That's what I want to do. I want to get
Speaker 3: these in a matrix of of what of something, a
Speaker 3: matrix of sorts, and go through social media see if
Speaker 3: I can tie any of them together. Right wow?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately Ramelo has like thirty six Facebook pages, so you
Speaker 3: know that's gonna take some time.
Speaker 2: Is he still in custody?
Speaker 3: He was released, okay, but he had another he had
Speaker 3: another assault. I know exactly what it feels like to
Speaker 3: have somebody missing from the family and having the birthday
Speaker 3: cakes with them not there, and the tears and the
Speaker 3: heartache and just like the whole Before I was born,
Speaker 3: my cousin was abducted from my aunt's front yard, and
Speaker 3: you know, after I was born and growing up, we
Speaker 3: would always talk about him and I never excuse me.
Speaker 3: It was a constant theme growing up, Like we would
Speaker 3: have like birthday cakes with his name on it. You know.
Speaker 3: It was like, where is he in my family?
Speaker 4: Dude?
Speaker 3: My family in Michigan were super close, like we did
Speaker 3: everything together. My mom had five sisters and they all
Speaker 3: had like a lot of kids, and we would all
Speaker 3: get together Birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving. I mean it was huge,
Speaker 3: and there was always that one person missing. So it
Speaker 3: was a constant reminder that he's not there. I never
Speaker 3: really understood. When I got older enough to understand, I
Speaker 3: learned that he was abducted. When he was one years old.
Speaker 3: My aunt called the police and my aunt explained to police,
Speaker 3: you know, like my son's missing. He's only a baby,
Speaker 3: and this is like the sixties, all right, kids at
Speaker 3: one years old were sitting in the front yard by themselves.
Speaker 3: It's just the way it was, right. They were like, well,
Speaker 3: where's your wor the dad and she was like, we've
Speaker 3: been divorced, you know for six months, eight months whatever
Speaker 3: it was. And the cops at the time were like,
Speaker 3: he probably has them, don't worry about it. And that's
Speaker 3: how things were back then, and like there was no
Speaker 3: FBI task force for missing children to go to other states,
Speaker 3: you know, things like that. The cops were just like, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 3: I remember being such a young such a young kid,
Speaker 3: going what probably like eight, and my mom was explaining
Speaker 3: it to me, and I even back then, I was like,
Speaker 3: what do you mean, what do you mean? They said,
Speaker 3: don't worry about it, what do you mean? Where is he?
Speaker 3: And when when I was I want to say, twenty,
Speaker 3: he reached out to her. Oh my god, my cousin
Speaker 3: called my aunt hit the ex took him to California,
Speaker 3: and when he died, my cousin finally got information about
Speaker 3: his mom and reunited. But yeah, the ex, but we
Speaker 3: didn't know for sure. My whole life, we didn't know
Speaker 3: where he was. It was always a thought that yeah,
Speaker 3: maybe maybe he's with his dad, but we never knew
Speaker 3: for sure. So from like a really early age, I
Speaker 3: had like this problem with systematic injustice that let's say,
Speaker 3: I don't know how to say it. I didn't get
Speaker 3: it and I still don't to this day. I really
Speaker 3: don't get it. Because of my own personal background and
Speaker 3: because I've been growing as a person. One of my
Speaker 3: biggest things is crimes against marginalized communities. In Chicaia's case
Speaker 3: really pains me. As we wait for the DNA paperwork
Speaker 3: to come back from Chicaia's parents, we wanted to jump
Speaker 3: into more about the horrific legal hurdles Native Americans, especially
Speaker 3: Native American women face.
Speaker 8: Chakaia was a member of the Cheyenne Reservation, which is
Speaker 8: located just outside of Billings, Montana, which was where she
Speaker 8: was living when she disappeared. This is significant because Native
Speaker 8: American reservations are sovereign territories. They are not governed by
Speaker 8: state laws or police by local state police. This means
Speaker 8: they have their own tribal police who handle reservation matters.
Speaker 3: But often those departments have limited budgets and are understaffed,
Speaker 3: and when a major crime is committed, like a murder
Speaker 3: or a rape, the FBI is supposed to assist.
Speaker 8: In Chicaia's case, even though she's a reservation member, she
Speaker 8: went missing from the city of Billings, which means the
Speaker 8: local police are tasked to handle her case and try
Speaker 8: and find this missing person. However, it becomes complicated because
Speaker 8: families often report their loved ones or missing persons to
Speaker 8: multiple departments, and cases get handed around from one department
Speaker 8: to another. Who investigates what and who can arrest who?
Speaker 8: Is a jurisdictional nightmare. We found out and.
Speaker 3: From what we hear, the system is very broken. Native
Speaker 3: American and Indigenous families don't trust law enforcement, and law
Speaker 3: enforcement doesn't feel like they are even being given enough
Speaker 3: information to understand all the complexities of this problem. Our
Speaker 3: producer Jeff Shane, spoke to FBI analyst Don Metzmyer. He
Speaker 3: is one of the only law enforcement officers who would
Speaker 3: talk to us on or off the record.
Speaker 8: Don works as an intelligence at list out of New Mexico.
Speaker 8: He's tasked with working on missing and Murdered Indigenous women
Speaker 8: cases or MMIW in a state in an effort to
Speaker 8: help find answers to family members. While he hasn't worked
Speaker 8: directly on Chicaia's case, he's familiar with her story and
Speaker 8: provided us with the context of this whole jurisdictional issue nightmare.
Speaker 5: Hey, Don, thank you so much for taking the time.
Speaker 5: We're trying to get in communication with Yellowstone County, for example,
Speaker 5: which is the department who's handling Chicaia's case, and it's
Speaker 5: been very challenging to get them to give any sort
Speaker 5: of even just we're working on this case statement. So
Speaker 5: explain to me that why you are kind of bucking
Speaker 5: that trend and being more transparent with things like the media, podcast, TV,
Speaker 5: et cetera.
Speaker 7: Great questions, I would argue, from what the work that
Speaker 7: we do here, it's not really a trend that we
Speaker 7: need to that we're bucking, like what we're doing here
Speaker 7: in New Mexico, because we've always worked very closely with
Speaker 7: the media. One of the things that I see here
Speaker 7: on this topic compared to the previous work I've done
Speaker 7: with other areas of focus for the FBI is this topic,
Speaker 7: we are very reliant on the public's help. And what
Speaker 7: I mean by that is, let's say it's a national
Speaker 7: security matter or a cyber matter or something like that,
Speaker 7: We've got a lot of great databases that we can
Speaker 7: use to do that research. On something like a missing
Speaker 7: person's case, which for the most part, the FBI doesn't
Speaker 7: investigate missing person cases except for in rare circumstances where
Speaker 7: we believe fu play is involved and we've got overwhelming evidence.
Speaker 7: So that's usually the local law enforcement, and you mentioned
Speaker 7: like the departments in Yellowstone, so historically we haven't done
Speaker 7: we don't do those sorts of investigations, and we don't
Speaker 7: in New Mexico either. However, we do provide assistance to
Speaker 7: local law enforcement. So still breaking down that, the beginning
Speaker 7: part of that is we are reliant on the public
Speaker 7: when someone goes missing, and on this issue for missing persons,
Speaker 7: we're back to the public, and the best way that
Speaker 7: we can use that database, which in this case I'm
Speaker 7: considering the public to be a database, is to put
Speaker 7: that in out to the public. Something I often say
Speaker 7: is there's a reason that the FBI still has a
Speaker 7: ten most Wanted list, even with all the databases we have,
Speaker 7: is we're relying on that public to see those tips,
Speaker 7: to know that we care about a topic, and then
Speaker 7: to give them a path forward of how to report
Speaker 7: that information to the public. I don't know specifically about Yellowstone,
Speaker 7: but I do know from our close work on this
Speaker 7: issue with our local law enforcement, there's an epidemic of
Speaker 7: missing persons across all races and genders in the US,
Speaker 7: and so one of our closest partners, the Albuquerque Police Department,
Speaker 7: Those detectives are settled with a huge caseload. I feel
Speaker 7: sympathetic from their perspective of how much work they have,
Speaker 7: and that's why we've gone out of our way here
Speaker 7: to provide them additional tools and support in those cases.
Speaker 7: And if we have information within our own holdings, as
Speaker 7: we'd like to call it our own FBI information, we
Speaker 7: share that with them so that we're looking at the
Speaker 7: same thing to try to find a resolution to a case.
Speaker 7: I'm trying not to give you a non answer to that,
Speaker 7: but does that help kind of clarify?
Speaker 6: It does?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it does.
Speaker 7: I don't want to use the word bucking the trend
Speaker 7: because I don't want to sound like we we decided
Speaker 7: here that we're going to stop hiding from the public.
Speaker 7: It's just we're trying to provide a path forward for
Speaker 7: us to work with the public a little easier, and
Speaker 7: that we often refer to it as radical transparency or
Speaker 7: just we just put all the information out there so
Speaker 7: that there sometimes seems to be like you mentioned, like
Speaker 7: maybe the frustrations of the family with local law enforcement
Speaker 7: to just share what we have.
Speaker 5: Do you find that there is a frustration or a
Speaker 5: mistrust from you know, these victims' families, specifically in the
Speaker 5: indigenous communities, with law enforcement or with you know some
Speaker 5: you know with officials.
Speaker 7: Short answer is yes. And now it's hard to sometimes
Speaker 7: understand that frustration because is that the frustration of a
Speaker 7: missing a family member who has lost someone. I've got
Speaker 7: a child, and if my child went missing, my first
Speaker 7: probably primal reaction would be frustration. I I want to
Speaker 7: know everything that's going on with that case, and sometimes
Speaker 7: from a law enforcement perspective, and I've spoke to some
Speaker 7: of my tribal colleagues on this. They're cut in a
Speaker 7: really bad position because they are one members of the
Speaker 7: tribe that are doing the investigation, but they still are
Speaker 7: law enforcement members and they have to do preservation of evidence,
Speaker 7: protecting their sources sometimes of information. So I am we're
Speaker 7: very sympathetic with the families that are frustrated. That frustration
Speaker 7: is their motivation to try to find answers to what
Speaker 7: happened to their loved one, and we want them to
Speaker 7: hold us and they should also have a right to
Speaker 7: hold law enforcement accountable to find out what's going on
Speaker 7: with their case.
Speaker 5: Okay, So that brings me to my next point, which is,
Speaker 5: like the jurisdictional issues of it all. Are you able
Speaker 5: to just I mean, we've heard it from so many
Speaker 5: different people, but I feel like you're hearing to give
Speaker 5: me an answer. Explain the jurisdictional issues as it stays
Speaker 5: sure with where you fit into, you know, like as
Speaker 5: you were saying, tribal police, local place all that.
Speaker 7: It wouldn't surprise me if you've heard from victims' families
Speaker 7: and even from some maybe tribal law enforcement are there
Speaker 7: does have the appearance of jurisdictional issues. If you look
Speaker 7: at a map of Native American land, it's honestly called
Speaker 7: a checkerboard, and because it depends on where you are
Speaker 7: with a you'd have to have a GPS to know
Speaker 7: whether you're standing on tribal land or whether you're not
Speaker 7: standing on tribal land, and who has that authority when
Speaker 7: you're on it, whether it's the US Attorney's office or
Speaker 7: whether it's the state Attorney General's office. So yeah, that
Speaker 7: jurisdictional issue will always occur, but we have to in
Speaker 7: law enforcement have to try to come up with solutions
Speaker 7: to try to get over maybe a map that was
Speaker 7: made one hundred and thirty one hundred and seventy years ago.
Speaker 7: Sometimes it's hard. It's hard to work because it's more
Speaker 7: work on an overburdened office or an overburdened agency. But
Speaker 7: if you're the family member, you often want one single
Speaker 7: point of contact that you can talk to.
Speaker 5: So can I just ask, like, let's put it into
Speaker 5: you know, because we talk a lot about Shokaia on
Speaker 5: this podcast. Sure, So for her, she's a woman from
Speaker 5: a reservation. She's from the Northern Reservation in Montana, but
Speaker 5: she is living in the city of Billings and goes
Speaker 5: missing from the city of Billings, correct, and so they
Speaker 5: gets reported to the Billings PDA, gets passed off to
Speaker 5: Yellowstone County. The family claims that the FBI was supposed
Speaker 5: to step in and offer assistance, but that might have happened,
Speaker 5: it might not have happened. They're not sure. What is
Speaker 5: your take on the proper proto call for who should
Speaker 5: be handling this investigation.
Speaker 7: So I can't speak to Shicaia's case specifically because that
Speaker 7: happened outside of our jurisdiction, but I would like to
Speaker 7: discuss how that would be handled if it happened within
Speaker 7: the state of New Mexico. So if an individual went missing,
Speaker 7: here a Native American within the city of Albuquerque. There
Speaker 7: are multiple entities that could have lead on that missing
Speaker 7: person's case. That could be the City of Alququerque Police department,
Speaker 7: that could be the Bernalleeo County Sheriff's Department, or even
Speaker 7: the state police. And in all of those instances, they
Speaker 7: would have the lead, and we have the right if
Speaker 7: they came to us to offer assistance. So from our
Speaker 7: internal side, we would open up a parallel police assistance investigation. Again,
Speaker 7: we don't have the lead on it. We are just
Speaker 7: using some of the resources, whether it's our evidence response team,
Speaker 7: whether it's our poligraphers, whether it's our behavioral analysis units,
Speaker 7: what they need to help come to resolution on that case.
Speaker 5: Why do you think the numbers are so high for
Speaker 5: the Indigenous community in terms of homicide and missing people?
Speaker 7: What I will say is sometimes in Native American communities
Speaker 7: across the country, high rates of violence that occur, often
Speaker 7: these departments to give them some defense. They're often underfunded, underserved,
Speaker 7: and they don't have the technology, so they don't have
Speaker 7: intelligence analysts. Sometimes it might be a two, four or
Speaker 7: a six person department responsible for covering hundreds, if not thousands,
Speaker 7: of square miles. Each of the names on these lists
Speaker 7: represent a point of pain. I will say for New
Speaker 7: Mexico because that's what I can speak to. I like
Speaker 7: the way we're handling this. I am supported. It is
Speaker 7: an intelligence based support the operations, which we would call
Speaker 7: operations the investigators, whether it's local law enforcement or that.
Speaker 7: But we're giving them the tools. Other states are not there.
Speaker 7: So I think each state on this very complex issue nationally,
Speaker 7: has different things that they can offer. I think New
Speaker 7: Mexico was kind of the right environment at the right
Speaker 7: time between all those things I mentioned earlier, where you
Speaker 7: had an office that was willing to put a lot
Speaker 7: of analysts and take them off their day work with
Speaker 7: the other stuff I was doing to try to tackle
Speaker 7: a very difficult crisis with big data. And other states
Speaker 7: have different populations in different issues, and that's where it
Speaker 7: is a responsibility for each office to take a look
Speaker 7: in each state to take a look at it to
Speaker 7: see what they can bring to this. And as I
Speaker 7: said earlier, I'll say it again, We're going to make mistakes,
Speaker 7: and I mentioned that over and over, but it's not
Speaker 7: going to be mistakes for lack of trying to do
Speaker 7: the right thing to help support the families at the
Speaker 7: end of the day that are missing individuals.
Speaker 8: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in
Speaker 8: a moment.
Speaker 3: So today I'm gonna go through the list of names
Speaker 3: that Tamara Bear comes out was given from the FBI
Speaker 3: of possible accomplices to Rico Wallace's like human trafficking ring.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to go through their social media and
Speaker 3: see if there's any overlap between that. All right, the
Speaker 3: first name is Christen and that's it. Abby Best lay
Speaker 3: O n g B A R E r I k
Speaker 3: I trixy t r A x I A z I
Speaker 3: A w O Tina Peru m o I n Brook, Bell,
Speaker 3: Odessa Rakati Osiha Sutton Okay m O k A y
Speaker 3: l E s TuS br Stacy Gibbons Medicine. Oh mellow,
Speaker 3: big day. That's my guy that I looked at, Demon
Speaker 3: d Sean Heyan wall I don't know what the last
Speaker 3: name is cho. You know, it takes a long time
Speaker 3: to put together these documents, Like I'm making a spreadsheet
Speaker 3: of all the profiles and their links and any identifiable information,
Speaker 3: and it takes a while to do that, but it's
Speaker 3: worth it. It's worth it, And I'm taking screenshots and
Speaker 3: I'm linking the screenshots to the spreadsheet, and yeah, it
Speaker 3: takes a while to do all this stuff, but I
Speaker 3: generally think, you know, it does pay off to do that,
Speaker 3: So that's why I'm doing it. I think that's John Green. Hello.
Speaker 3: Hold on kay Day. He hasn't posted in a while,
Speaker 3: so I'm wondering if he's incarcerated for the robbery slash
Speaker 3: assault in Great Falls. So that's what I wanted to
Speaker 3: see if we can look up Okay to see if
Speaker 3: he's incarcerated. It was in a news article in September
Speaker 3: that police responded to a robbery in Great Falls on
Speaker 3: the sixteen hundred block Third Avenue, Romelo. Big Day was
Speaker 3: eventually arrested for a costing a female in a parking
Speaker 3: lot and attempting to steal her phone. Approximately one hour
Speaker 3: prior to the robbery, big Day was also involved in
Speaker 3: a disturbance at the Zip Trip. Big Day was charged
Speaker 3: with misdemeanor assault in the Zip Trip disturbance. So I
Speaker 3: don't know if he is incarcerated for that right now
Speaker 3: or not. But when I was looking at incarcerated peoples,
Speaker 3: a couple of months ago or maybe a month ago.
Speaker 3: I looked for Big Day like how it is on
Speaker 3: the ID, and I didn't find anybody. But I did
Speaker 3: a Big Day with no space, and I found a bunch,
Speaker 3: but he wasn't one of them. But this is his
Speaker 3: Montana Department of Corrections photo identification, so I would imagine,
Speaker 3: you know, and it's got his idea number on there
Speaker 3: and everything.
Speaker 8: I'm looking at a jail roster Okay or Shasta County.
Speaker 3: Which Great Falls is in Okay, And.
Speaker 8: Based on this document, he's still in.
Speaker 3: Custody on the charges that has theft and then assault, right,
Speaker 3: And I think it's worth noting too that just because
Speaker 3: somebody's on this list, like Tamra Bear comes out said
Speaker 3: the FBI said this was Rico's circle, right, like the
Speaker 3: people that worked for him. I think it's worth noting
Speaker 3: too that just because somebody's on this list doesn't mean
Speaker 3: they were knowingly doing anything wrong. You know, they could
Speaker 3: have just thought like these were his girls, even though
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? Like I just don't.
Speaker 3: I just I want to make it clear that just
Speaker 3: because we're looking at Tazia's profile doesn't mean she's done
Speaker 3: anything wrong, right, yep. So this Tasia lady lives in
Speaker 3: San Jose. Now, yeah, did you notice.
Speaker 2: That I was saying she's in Cali?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 3: I know, but didn't we talk about San Jose specifically
Speaker 3: as like a place.
Speaker 8: Traffic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, on the circuit. I'm still blocked. God damn it.
Speaker 3: Are you getting some kind of vibe.
Speaker 2: From her something?
Speaker 3: No, I mean she looks I'm not getting a vibe
Speaker 3: from her. It's just that she's on the list. She's
Speaker 3: friends with two of the people on the list, like
Speaker 3: she's the bridge between the two right now?
Speaker 2: Do you want her each ocular?
Speaker 3: No? Absolutely not. It's more of I'd rather learn a
Speaker 3: little bit more information before reaching out to her. I
Speaker 3: don't want to play her hand. I mean, I'm willing
Speaker 3: to hear your side. I just don't think it's good.
Speaker 3: I did think it's too soon.
Speaker 6: We don't have time.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 1: That's my story.
Speaker 8: That's where I'm going. We don't have time, and we
Speaker 8: know this girl somehow, the connection between these two guys.
Speaker 2: We don't even have to tell her, hey, your name's
Speaker 2: on the list.
Speaker 3: We just say, hey, you know, we were looking into
Speaker 3: being what do you how do you say you got to.
Speaker 8: Her you don't you just say, hey, did you know
Speaker 8: a guy named Momelo big Day from Fontana?
Speaker 2: And see what she said.
Speaker 3: I think this girl might be key Tasia. Then again
Speaker 3: maybe not, you know, I mean, but why is she
Speaker 3: on this list?
Speaker 8: On the list, we found a profile. We found her
Speaker 8: connected to somebody that knew.
Speaker 3: No, she knows Ramelo. She's on his friend's list, yes.
Speaker 8: But then if you go to her profile, she's friends
Speaker 8: with Tommy.
Speaker 3: She's friends with Tommy, which is also on the list.
Speaker 3: As we continue to dig further, all the names on
Speaker 3: the list seemed to keep coming back to Ramelo Big Day.
Speaker 8: But while we were digging and combing through the social media,
Speaker 8: we continue to communicate with Shakaia's mom, Tamra, and Tamar
Speaker 8: told us something that she just learned purely by chance.
Speaker 3: If you remember, we had heard that Shakaia was last
Speaker 3: seen getting into a red truck near tumbil Reed One
Speaker 3: Race Center the day she disappeared. The story was never
Speaker 3: collaborated by Yellowstone County PD. But if it's true, then
Speaker 3: it could be a very important lead. And Tamra just
Speaker 3: heard something that could help us clarify Shakaia's last few
Speaker 3: hours before she just period. Are you there?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm gonna run and grab you quick.
Speaker 10: Danna.
Speaker 2: So good to hear from you.
Speaker 3: And it's good to hear from you. How you been
Speaker 3: I've been hanging in there.
Speaker 9: I ended up running into this girl.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 6: Her name was Latsha, and then so we started talking
Speaker 6: and then I was crying, and she goes, what's wrong?
Speaker 3: Are you okay?
Speaker 6: And I said, well on that thing, I said blue
Speaker 6: and I said, its almost my baby. It's almost Chikaia
Speaker 6: Blue's birthday. And she's like, I know Chkaia Blue. I
Speaker 6: so you do and she said yeah. She said, I
Speaker 6: remember riding bike Chiltern. She said, so we used to
Speaker 6: go to Tumblewee and she said, okay.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna back up a little bit.
Speaker 6: In Asia long Night was one of Chikaia's childhood friends.
Speaker 6: It's crazy because because so okay, so get this. She
Speaker 6: said that Asia introduced her to the sky. They came
Speaker 6: up here to Fort Barnot and so she said, Neja
Speaker 6: introduced her to this guy.
Speaker 10: His name was Nick.
Speaker 6: She said, blind out Nick's last time. Okay, So get this, Sianna.
Speaker 6: He drives a red truck with the camper. No, I'm
Speaker 6: not even lying yet, shop with the camper and that's
Speaker 6: that's yep, nick, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, So I don't don't.
Speaker 4: I didn't even know what.
Speaker 6: To do with all this information because I might as
Speaker 6: you want to, little girl, I don't even know if
Speaker 6: you know it, but you gave him my most solid lead,
Speaker 6: my passage.
Speaker 10: He's surprised to sever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with this new information, we contacted our Montana private investigator,
Speaker 3: Mike Toss.
Speaker 13: If we know his full name, I can look him
Speaker 13: up and see if he comes up.
Speaker 7: On my database.
Speaker 3: It's a very common name. It's Aaron Peterson, and he
Speaker 3: lives in California, but.
Speaker 13: He lived in Montana.
Speaker 3: He did Aaron Peterson.
Speaker 13: Yeah, I will. I will look up on Aaron Peterson
Speaker 13: and Billings, all right, and see what pops up. I
Speaker 13: do Billings, Montana. It'll pop up a lot of them.
Speaker 13: But then I'll look for one now that says of
Speaker 13: the California address.
Speaker 2: Also, I would I would think he's in his twenties, right, Yeah.
Speaker 13: I'll give it a shot. There are probably a million
Speaker 13: of them, but you never know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it would be good to hear from him
Speaker 2: and get the story straight from him.
Speaker 7: What happened.
Speaker 13: So do we know what the Tumbleweet address is?
Speaker 3: We can get it. Five oh five North twenty fourth five.
Speaker 2: Oh five, No, twenty fourth pull out. You got an address?
Speaker 2: I got a guy, so he would he would have
Speaker 2: hear he has his mailing address.
Speaker 13: So Aaron James Peterson, he's.
Speaker 4: Where he is, that he's in Missoula, which is where
Speaker 4: I am.
Speaker 13: I'm gonna flag this and send this to both of
Speaker 13: you right now.
Speaker 2: That's great, Mike.
Speaker 8: In talking with Shakaia's family, we found out about a
Speaker 8: person by the name of Aaron who, based on what
Speaker 8: we've heard, sounds like he may have been the last
Speaker 8: person to see Shakaya before she disappeared back in July
Speaker 8: of twenty eighteen, so it'd be kind of important to
Speaker 8: talk to him. We've seen some text messages between Aaron
Speaker 8: and Shakaia's sister, him talking about knowing the one person
Speaker 8: that she was hanging around who may have been grooming her.
Speaker 8: So when Mike originally ran a report on Aaron Peterson,
Speaker 8: there were a bunch, but he was able to identify
Speaker 8: the specific one based on using the Tumbleweed address. When
Speaker 8: Mike ran a report on him, he came up with
Speaker 8: a current address for a person. Same person, Aaron, same
Speaker 8: last name, living in the Missoula era, Missoula, Montana, which
Speaker 8: is not far from Billings. I am actually looking up
Speaker 8: that address just to verify. So it's always good when
Speaker 8: you run these reports. Sometimes it gives you good information.
Speaker 8: Sometimes it does it. So I'm taking the address and
Speaker 8: I'm going to whitepages dot com and I'm just doing
Speaker 8: a reverse address look up. So I put in that address,
Speaker 8: the city, the state, and absolutely nothing so it shows
Speaker 8: nothing there, doesn't show anybody who lives there or anything
Speaker 8: like that, which is not good. When I go on
Speaker 8: go maps, it looks like it's a large multi unit property.
Speaker 8: There's like four buildings on there, but each unit has
Speaker 8: its own address. It's not like one two three four
Speaker 8: Main Street unit A one two three four Mains, so
Speaker 8: each one has an address. So maybe if he's still
Speaker 8: living in there and we can't get a hold of him,
Speaker 8: maybe we can have Mike the PI go to Missoula,
Speaker 8: go to the address we have and see if Aaron's
Speaker 8: still there, and see if he's still willing to talk
Speaker 8: to us, if he's willing to talk to us and
Speaker 8: share information on Chicaia.
Speaker 2: It's Mike. Well, I'm driving sousa, no problem.
Speaker 8: How are you?
Speaker 2: Cold?
Speaker 7: Good but glad to be moving.
Speaker 8: So today you were traveling from what would be considered
Speaker 8: West Montana over the Billings and on your way you
Speaker 8: were going to pass through a city called Missoula. And
Speaker 8: in our research on Chicaia, we had found out about
Speaker 8: a person by the name of Aaron who supposedly is
Speaker 8: one of the last people all Shakaia before she went missing.
Speaker 8: So today you were going to stop by there on
Speaker 8: your way to Billings to see if maybe Aaron was there,
Speaker 8: to see if we could introduce ourselves and get him
Speaker 8: to come on the podcast and talk with us. So
Speaker 8: how to go today?
Speaker 2: Well, not well, I guess not good. I went there
Speaker 2: and no one answered.
Speaker 13: There wasn't any vehicles in the driveway.
Speaker 3: Let's stop here for another quick break. While we searched
Speaker 3: for Aaron in Montana, we recently got some news about
Speaker 3: Jared's case.
Speaker 8: We thought that Jared's ex wife, Shanna moved out of Florida,
Speaker 8: and that seemed odd, so we asked our Florida based PI,
Speaker 8: Chris Algado, to try and find out where she moved to.
Speaker 8: Now that we know we need to tell Kirsten.
Speaker 3: So we have an update for you. Some good news,
Speaker 3: I mean, in you know, so much not good news.
Speaker 3: We found her current location okay, and verified that it's
Speaker 3: correct and all that. And we found his current location too,
Speaker 3: so the ex the ex wife and him and they
Speaker 3: are not in the same state.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I actually located her myself.
Speaker 3: Oh okay too.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I wonder if our you know what, I wonder if
Speaker 3: our information matches.
Speaker 2: Let's find out.
Speaker 3: Let's find out, let me get it, let me pull
Speaker 3: it up here.
Speaker 2: I don't joke, I don't mean to joke about this,
Speaker 2: but this makes me happy that you were able to
Speaker 2: locate it too. And now we can see if.
Speaker 4: You have it's the same, right, Yeah, there's a million
Speaker 4: dollar house paid in cash bought by White Fan.
Speaker 2: LLC yep in Rachel Washington correct, ye in September yep.
Speaker 3: And it was transferred. The deed was transferred like September,
Speaker 3: September right, yeah, okay, yeah, so you have it too.
Speaker 2: How did you find it? Jared?
Speaker 4: I know for a fact, Jared was helping me with
Speaker 4: the fun because you know, I had reached out to
Speaker 4: you guys. I had actually hired another PI. I know
Speaker 4: a news station had hired a PI and nothing was
Speaker 4: coming back. But months and months and months ago, when
Speaker 4: I had heard a rumor that she was moving to Washington,
Speaker 4: I racked my brain. I'm like, why would she move
Speaker 4: to Washington, Like she doesn't have family there? And then
Speaker 4: I remembered that she had a baker friend, like a
Speaker 4: fellow baker who she had met at a cookie conference
Speaker 4: that lived in Washington, and so I said, you know,
Speaker 4: I want to find this lady's page and just track
Speaker 4: her to see if anything comes up. Well, she in
Speaker 4: his baking page had already gone private, so I couldn't
Speaker 4: see who she was following or who was following her.
Speaker 4: But a friend of mine I had asked to follow
Speaker 4: Shanna so she could see all of her followers. So
Speaker 4: she sent me the name of each and every baking account,
Speaker 4: and then I went through all of them until I
Speaker 4: found the one I was looking for. I looked up
Speaker 4: this lady's baking business, like her business license, and it's
Speaker 4: her home address. So then I looked up local sales
Speaker 4: and the house exactly next order hers is the one.
Speaker 3: That shanns and White White Sands LLC is owned. By
Speaker 3: the parents.
Speaker 4: Correct, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we one thing that we don't know is
Speaker 3: what the hell's White Sands. They've had it for many years, decades,
Speaker 3: They let it lapse for a couple of years, renew
Speaker 3: the license on it. We were really trying to dig
Speaker 3: into that to White Sands, because it's just it's a
Speaker 3: strange purchase, right, Yeah, that would be interesting.
Speaker 4: And it's also interesting because like they buy all of
Speaker 4: their houses in LLC. So the one that they purchased
Speaker 4: here at Jack's Beach was like Arabian Nights LLC. So
Speaker 4: it's a whole other Yeah, like they have a lot
Speaker 4: of LLC's, right.
Speaker 2: That's how rich people protect their and.
Speaker 3: I have no knowledge of that. I don't know how
Speaker 3: that works. You know.
Speaker 2: I had to explain that if like there was ever
Speaker 2: a lawsuit and they were.
Speaker 9: Held and had to pay and they couldn't have their
Speaker 9: house taken away because the house sits in the corporation
Speaker 9: under there name. And it's also a way to you know,
Speaker 9: kind of hide out and if you didn't want people.
Speaker 2: To find you, it helps out a lot too. But yeah,
Speaker 2: and you know the thing Deanna and I was, well,
Speaker 2: her parents have her under their thumb right, they on,
Speaker 2: we'll see and she's living there. They got it. She
Speaker 2: has to do what they.
Speaker 4: Want, right, It's just another sign that they will protect
Speaker 4: her no matter But.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. And I and Mario is in Orlando.
Speaker 4: Oh really, Yeah, I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: Mario. I'll send you his information that I found. We
Speaker 3: don't have to, you know, because I don't want to
Speaker 3: dox them on the air and stuff. But yeah, he's
Speaker 3: in Orlando.
Speaker 2: Why do you Why would he be still in Florida
Speaker 2: and she on the other side of the US. Do
Speaker 2: you have any idea why?
Speaker 7: Christian?
Speaker 4: So they're separated, and Shanna had told her little group
Speaker 4: of baking friends it was either the day of or
Speaker 4: the morning after. He is the morning after Jared's murder.
Speaker 4: She randomly put it in their baking chat that, oh,
Speaker 4: you know, my husband or my ex husband passed away,
Speaker 4: and it's just super hard because me and Mario decide
Speaker 4: they were better office friends and we're going to get divorced.
Speaker 4: But now I have to like wait till the summer,
Speaker 4: so there's not too much going on for the kids.
Speaker 4: So it's just weird timing that she randomly decided to
Speaker 4: tell her friends that she and Mario are breaking up,
Speaker 4: but they're still legally married. So I married.
Speaker 3: I looked in all the counties you know, affiliated with them,
Speaker 3: like the three counties that are affiliated with them, and they
Speaker 3: haven't filed anything yet, or if they have, hasn't made
Speaker 3: it public yet. But I am constantly looking.
Speaker 4: I appreciate that because I look from time to time too,
Speaker 4: and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Nothing's hit yet, and I've got so our PI is
Speaker 3: looking to Okay, he he's the one who found the
Speaker 3: Washington in the White Sands and all that.
Speaker 4: That's awesome.
Speaker 3: No, he's he's phenomenal.
Speaker 4: He is phenomenal to find it, because I would not.
Speaker 3: So we met him, actually became friends with him, like
Speaker 3: personal friends, and we were very impressed with him, and
Speaker 3: he was impressed with us and whatnot, and so we
Speaker 3: just developed his friendship and he's just like probably one
Speaker 3: of the best pis in the United States, probably one
Speaker 3: of the best.
Speaker 4: That's awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So yeah, we wanted to give you that information
Speaker 3: for sure, and asked we wanted to ask you to
Speaker 3: And I'm sorry, I'm coming at You've just been excited
Speaker 3: to talk to you for a while now. Ever since
Speaker 3: you've texted me up like bonding to respond. Does Jared's
Speaker 3: parents have contact with the twins.
Speaker 4: No, so there has been contact recently through Jared's sister, Okay,
Speaker 4: but to my knowledge, she's the only one that has
Speaker 4: been able to make contact that. I can't remember exactly
Speaker 4: what date that was. I think it was before Christmas
Speaker 4: she was able to FaceTime with them. I didn't I
Speaker 4: didn't hear much about it. I just heard that she
Speaker 4: texted Shanna, she hadna responded, and then she was able
Speaker 4: to FaceTime with the twins. That's all I really know. Okay,
Speaker 4: So that is the only contact with our side of
Speaker 4: the family.
Speaker 2: That I'm aware of, And I'm assuming Jared's parents would
Speaker 2: like to be their grandchildren too.
Speaker 10: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So they even emailed Shannon Attorney back in the summer
Speaker 4: when Gaylord his dad was here going through cancer treatment,
Speaker 4: asking can we please see the kids while we're here,
Speaker 4: like he was down at Mayo Clinic getting treated for cancer,
Speaker 4: and they just completely they never spawn it, completely ignored them.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: I saw I follow the Justice for Jared's Instagram and
Speaker 3: TikTok and all that, and I saw the email from
Speaker 3: the lawyers. I think it was in response to you
Speaker 3: saying leave me alone.
Speaker 1: Or yeah, because yeah, so John, Kirsten of course wants
Speaker 1: her children to have a relationship with their siblings, you know,
Speaker 1: and has been in her lawyer respond to Kirsten was
Speaker 1: just like leave me alone or leave me out of
Speaker 1: this or something.
Speaker 3: I can't remember the verbiage, but it was very weird. So, okay,
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 4: Texting Shanna for months and she blocked my phone number.
Speaker 4: I was emailing her, have never gotten a response. That
Speaker 4: emailed her criminal offense attorney. He said, this is a
Speaker 4: family law matter, reach out to her family attorney. When
Speaker 4: I switched to emailing him, wasn't getting a response, so
Speaker 4: I started emailing him and Shanna on the same thread.
Speaker 4: His first response was meant for Shanna, and he said
Speaker 4: this is like in a summer.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: He's like, I don't see a need to respond to this.
Speaker 4: Your family's been through so much. I just want this
Speaker 4: to be over for you. And I responded, I was like,
Speaker 4: she's been through so much. Wow, Like you've got to
Speaker 4: be kidding me. And all I want is for communication
Speaker 4: to be opened up between blood siblings. So anyways, then
Speaker 4: he like didn't respond to me again and then it
Speaker 4: was just recently, you know, like the last I think
Speaker 4: in October November whenever that one was. But he responded
Speaker 4: back to me and said, please stop emailing me, which
Speaker 4: I responded and said, until you let me know you're
Speaker 4: no longer representing her, I will continue to email just
Speaker 4: for you.
Speaker 3: I have to tell you that that's very good for you.
Speaker 4: They've kissed me off.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, No, I don't blame you on honey, I
Speaker 3: don't blame you.
Speaker 2: So that brings up the question is how did how
Speaker 2: does Jared's parents get access to their grandkids?
Speaker 4: They do, they don't, and so like just recently this year,
Speaker 4: there was a law pass the markle Yes because of
Speaker 4: the markl case. But from my understanding when I was
Speaker 4: reading it, there has to be a conviction for that
Speaker 4: to be enacted. So they would have grandparent rights, and
Speaker 4: so would my parents actually, and it includes step grandparents,
Speaker 4: so my parents and his parents would have rights to
Speaker 4: visitation with the kids if and when Shanna is convicted
Speaker 4: of our crime.
Speaker 2: Right, So you're you're aware of the Markal Act and
Speaker 2: what happened to.
Speaker 4: Dan markle Yes. In fact, my brother in law and
Speaker 4: I talk about that case from time to time because
Speaker 4: we think it's pretty darn.
Speaker 3: Similarity, Kirsten. When I read the timeline for this, I
Speaker 3: literally could not wait to talk to John. I was like, dude,
Speaker 3: and I read him the timeline of what, you know,
Speaker 3: the conversation at dinner that was recorded with the brother
Speaker 3: and the and I mean I had the chills. I'm like,
Speaker 3: you know, the keys were in the ignition and how
Speaker 3: things trickled out very slowly. There are two days after
Speaker 3: the murder. The prius was pictures of release and I
Speaker 3: was like, that's a truck. That's our truck. You know,
Speaker 3: every every step of the way, it was crazy similar
Speaker 3: the contentious custody.
Speaker 4: Battle, the you know, the wealthy family.
Speaker 3: The wealthy family. Yeah, so the you know, wanting to
Speaker 3: take your kids out of the jurisdiction. But she has
Speaker 3: she the wife, Wendy or the ex wife I used
Speaker 3: to say, has never been convicted. Only the Yeah, only
Speaker 3: the brother and his ex girlfriend or whatever, and Alish
Speaker 3: and of course the two hitmen, right but yeah, And
Speaker 3: you know, even in investigating Jared's murder, I have such
Speaker 3: a hard time thinking that it's just one person, you know,
Speaker 3: So even the fact that there were two hit men.
Speaker 3: You know, like everything was just and you know, they
Speaker 3: did an ABC special which I'm dying to watch. I
Speaker 3: need to watch it in September of twenty sixteen on
Speaker 3: this I don't know if you've seen it, but it
Speaker 3: was on twenty two. It was on twenty twenty. But
Speaker 3: it just it just reminds me and so much of
Speaker 3: Jared's murder.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, one night, in fact, my brother texted
Speaker 4: me about the King and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: I know. Then it sent me down the rabbit hole
Speaker 4: again and I was up to like three am watching
Speaker 4: YouTube clips of the trials, like everyone's testimonies and stuff.
Speaker 4: And in the ex Wives testimony, I mean, she was
Speaker 4: pretty good. She was freaking annoying, like m h the
Speaker 4: way she I mean, she was an attorney, so you
Speaker 4: expect that. But yeah, I was up really late one
Speaker 4: night watching all of their it took testimony, It took
Speaker 4: eight years.
Speaker 3: Eight years. Yeah, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 4: It is crazy. It's like art. It's almost like the
Speaker 4: system is built to protect criminals, you know, like I
Speaker 4: get that we want to make sure innocent people aren't
Speaker 4: put behind bars or of course, you know, given the
Speaker 4: death sentence. But it's like you can get away with
Speaker 4: so much, especially as I'm sure we all believe that
Speaker 4: ex wife remarkle, Kay, she was behind it, and she's
Speaker 4: still walking around free with her kids. Absolutely, it's insane.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So yeah, we really wanted to ask you about
Speaker 3: Jared's parents because I mean I've seen, of course, I've
Speaker 3: talked to his brother with you and his sister. I've seen,
Speaker 3: but i haven't seen anything a lot about his parents,
Speaker 3: and I'm sure that they want to see their grandchildren.
Speaker 3: That's like, you know, a part.
Speaker 4: Of Jared what's sad is like they really want you,
Speaker 4: but they're almost afraid to fight for it because they
Speaker 4: are afraid of the power of that family. Like they
Speaker 4: are genuinely afraid of it. And so if there's not
Speaker 4: a clear legal way to do it, like an easy hey,
Speaker 4: this law dictates that we get to see them, they're
Speaker 4: afraid to try anything else.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's scary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very scary. So yeah, I guess with.
Speaker 12: That being said, Dean and I have been talking to
Speaker 12: people about this case, about Jared in the case, and
Speaker 12: we were luckily enough to talk to a forensic that
Speaker 12: where he's actually a professor.
Speaker 2: That teaches it, and we were going over everything with him,
Speaker 2: like every little piece of thing and the thing. So
Speaker 2: in court and you're convicting somebody, there's you know, several
Speaker 2: different types of witnesses. There's an eyewitness, somebody that witnessed
Speaker 2: the crime that can say I saw personage this. Honestly
Speaker 2: your two year old daughters too young to go to court,
Speaker 2: and yeah, there's no other witness, so that just leads
Speaker 2: the evidence that's the same. So then we went through
Speaker 2: all the evidence in different ways they could try to
Speaker 2: get information or stuff that may be back and it
Speaker 2: just seems odd that, you know, the tire, the tire
Speaker 2: is a big thing. Deanna and I looked into like,
Speaker 2: can make there's a like a serial number on the
Speaker 2: tire that I'll tell you where that plant was the
Speaker 2: tire was manufactured and the date and where it was,
Speaker 2: and can they track it back to like a store
Speaker 2: that it was bought at, and looking at things like that,
Speaker 2: and so we kind of ran every single scenario through.
Speaker 2: We talked about how they can pull DNA off shellcase
Speaker 2: scenes and different things, and it just kind of seemed like, ah,
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like this is going to go anywhere. And
Speaker 2: then afterwards, I was thinking, like you, No, the only
Speaker 2: way we could probably get anything out of this or
Speaker 2: get from justice is through a confession. And we heard
Speaker 2: that the x ex husband and her are no longer together.
Speaker 2: I said, that's interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, me hopes that she screwed him over so bad.
Speaker 3: That's what Reddit thinks that.
Speaker 4: Oh really, yeah, what were you saying?
Speaker 2: You think that she screwed him over so bad that way?
Speaker 4: No, I'm hoping she did. That she screwed him over
Speaker 4: so bad in this separation because one of his army
Speaker 4: buddies wives. So his friend's wife actually reached out to
Speaker 4: me on Instagram and said that, And I don't know
Speaker 4: if this is true or not, but last she heard,
Speaker 4: Mario was living in a trailer and just doesn't have
Speaker 4: a lot going for him, like he did not have
Speaker 4: his own money, like he was claiming disability from the military,
Speaker 4: which she claims is fraud, and that he tried to
Speaker 4: get her husband to also commit that fraud. But aside
Speaker 4: from that, he doesn't really have much going for him.
Speaker 4: So I'm like, if he goes from loving this extravagant lifestyle,
Speaker 4: brand new Testlove, brand new trucks, brand new, you know,
Speaker 4: like yeah, everything's paid for. Vacations are paid for. He
Speaker 4: could play video games all day long, which is what
Speaker 4: the kid said he did, and then he goes to
Speaker 4: living in a trailer. I would hope he's pretty pissed
Speaker 4: about it, especially if he did her bidding and that's
Speaker 4: where it got him. Well, so I hope.
Speaker 3: So. Yeah, Well, Mario did spend quite a bit of
Speaker 3: time playing video games, and he would stream and I
Speaker 3: have his game info and gosh, yeah he spent I
Speaker 3: mean listen, if he was my husband, I wouldn't divorce
Speaker 3: him to do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: The amount, the amount, Yeah, the amount of time he
Speaker 3: spent on that game was like like maybe a junior
Speaker 3: high boy might during summer break. Do you know what
Speaker 3: I mean? It's bad.
Speaker 2: Wait wait, I want to go back. So a wife
Speaker 2: of woman's military friends reached out to you and kind
Speaker 2: of gave me some update on him, So you have
Speaker 2: an end, so you know, somebody knows where he's at
Speaker 2: and what he's up to.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know if they currently do.
Speaker 4: But she had said that her husband had gone to
Speaker 4: lunch with Mario shortly after this all went down, And
Speaker 4: this wife had been sharing what I had posted, like, hey,
Speaker 4: we're looking for this truck. Hey this is my husband,
Speaker 4: Like we need answers. She had been sharing that her
Speaker 4: own social media, and according to her, at this lunch
Speaker 4: Mario told him, like, you need to get your wife
Speaker 4: to stop posting that. Why she posting that? Like we
Speaker 4: don't want to bring eyes to this, That's what she said.
Speaker 4: What like, that's a huge red flag, hopefully to anybody.
Speaker 3: Did you tell the police that I did?
Speaker 9: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay, good.
Speaker 2: So, I mean there's kind of two scenarios where the
Speaker 2: ex husband either he was aware of it, part of it,
Speaker 2: or he has absolutely no idea what happened, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: If he has no idea what happened and now he's
Speaker 2: separated from her and she sees what she did to
Speaker 2: her first husband, wouldn't he be scared. I'd be scared. Yeah,
Speaker 2: looking over my shoulder, unless you know, you know.
Speaker 7: But if he was.
Speaker 2: Part of it, right, then he knows something and they're
Speaker 2: going through a divorce, he's going to use as his
Speaker 2: leverage against her.
Speaker 3: I did a street view of the new address in Orlando.
Speaker 3: It doesn't look like a trailer park. It looks like
Speaker 3: kind of nice condos. So I got the impression that
Speaker 3: here's what I listen, this is just me spitball. What
Speaker 3: if he knows that something went down, whether he was
Speaker 3: involved or not, but he knows right, And what if
Speaker 3: it's the family that's actually responsible and they are paying
Speaker 3: his way? If I mean I.
Speaker 4: Could see that too, Yeah, my gut. Knowing who Mario
Speaker 4: is and watching them like he reacted like I saw
Speaker 4: him the next day. There's no way he was unaware
Speaker 4: of every movie.
Speaker 3: Really, absolutely no.
Speaker 2: Way, no how was he acting?
Speaker 4: So I had asked Shanna the night up very late,
Speaker 4: I texted her after I knew that the detectives had
Speaker 4: gone over to her house to inform her. I asked, said,
Speaker 4: can I please be there when the kids are informed?
Speaker 4: One they deserve to have someone who actually loved their
Speaker 4: dad present, and two so does Jared. Jared deserves to
Speaker 4: have someone who loved him to be present when his
Speaker 4: kids are told that he was murdered.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: Thankfully she said yes, but I did not want to
Speaker 4: go by myself. I had some lunches that night, so
Speaker 4: I took my dad with me early the next morning
Speaker 4: and we went over to their house. Shanna and Mario
Speaker 4: met us in the driveway and basically said, we are
Speaker 4: not to say anything beside comforting the children. They will
Speaker 4: be the ones doing the talking. So like we were
Speaker 4: told basically like, don't say anything. So I was like, what,
Speaker 4: I agreed. I'm like, at least I'm here, I can
Speaker 4: see the kids. So we went in and Sharon told them,
Speaker 4: and so we were at the table. So we're sitting down,
Speaker 4: Shanna and myself, the kids, and my dad. Mario was
Speaker 4: off to the side with his arms folded, leaning against
Speaker 4: their couch, just watching. And when the kids started sobbing
Speaker 4: after being told about this, I held one of them,
Speaker 4: and Shanna held one of them. I was crying, my
Speaker 4: dad was crying, the kids were crying. Mario was emotionless,
Speaker 4: didn't even attempt to comfort anybody, just stood there watching
Speaker 4: the entire time. And then they came actually to my
Speaker 4: house the day after, I believe so Friday, the day
Speaker 4: after that. Because they had said Abby wanted to bring
Speaker 4: some things for her sisters. They didn't tell me that
Speaker 4: it was going to be Mario and her parents also there,
Speaker 4: and the whole time he was like bragging about how
Speaker 4: good his dog is. My dog was there He's like,
Speaker 4: oh yeah, well, my dog. It was like it was
Speaker 4: this weird. He was trying to one up every like
Speaker 4: his behavior was so cold, and he hated Jared like
Speaker 4: he bleed shit hated Jared. So there's absolutely no doubt
Speaker 4: in my mind that he knew, or more like, he
Speaker 4: was not unaware. No no chance. So I tell you
Speaker 4: guys what he had posted on his Instagram stories shortly
Speaker 4: after Jared died. So I wasn't following him because it
Speaker 4: made my stomach turn. But I, like I said, I
Speaker 4: use friends to find things for me. He went on
Speaker 4: my camping trip with some I believe military buddies of
Speaker 4: his and and one of these Instagram stories, it's a video.
Speaker 4: He's taking a video of a lone tire on the
Speaker 4: ground and they're all laughing and then it changes to
Speaker 4: something else. Excuse me, I'm not kidding.
Speaker 3: Did you tell the colle.
Speaker 4: And I I should it you're kidding me, I'm not.
Speaker 4: I think I can actually go find the screen recording
Speaker 4: that someone sent me, and I'm like, all right, could
Speaker 4: be a coincidence. I think they were going to a
Speaker 4: car show, But.
Speaker 3: That to me is not a tasteless It's even if
Speaker 3: they were at a car.
Speaker 4: It's very least, it's tasteless because he knows exactly what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that tire is in every newspaper. So you you
Speaker 3: mentioned just it's I found something like that was really weird.
Speaker 3: The night Jared was murdered, Shelley posted pictures of their
Speaker 3: trip to Hawaii. All right, that's weird.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's really weird.
Speaker 3: On those pictures, you can run them through a piece
Speaker 3: of software to tell you the dayton time they were posted,
Speaker 3: because I want to know what time she posted these pictures,
Speaker 3: and she posted them at twenty two hundred. All right,
Speaker 3: So when you said that you called Shanna or you
Speaker 3: found out Shannon NW. Do you know about what time that.
Speaker 4: Was Eastern time? I think it was close to I know.
Speaker 3: I know that night was horrific, and it was it.
Speaker 4: Was late, so don't let me see if I can
Speaker 4: scroll it is late late, like after eleven pm late?
Speaker 14: Okay, yeah, okay, yeah, So I texted her at twelve
Speaker 14: and eight am on Thursday seventeen, Okay, Thursday, so it
Speaker 14: was super early Thursday morning.
Speaker 4: I hadn't gone to bed.
Speaker 3: Yet, so ten pm here is one am? No one
Speaker 3: am there, right, Because I'm in the West Coast, So
Speaker 3: I mean, that's listen, if your ex husband is murdered,
Speaker 3: the father of your children, me, I'd be like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, I gotta call my mom, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I need to talk to somebody who loves me. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 3: did Shelley know that Jared was murdered when she posted
Speaker 3: these pictures? Because the blog post is like, you know,
Speaker 3: the perfect family. You know, you know he is right,
Speaker 3: the perfect family. Look at my beautiful daughter and her husband,
Speaker 3: and the pictures of them two together are very much
Speaker 3: in love, you know. So if they if they were
Speaker 3: planning on getting divorced, you certainly can't tell from these photos. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but yeah, no, she posted them the night he was murdered,
Speaker 3: the night like, yeah, I'll send you the info if
Speaker 3: you want it. I mean, I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: I don't know if it Listen, my my my goal.
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm going to solve this murder, you
Speaker 3: know what i mean. But if we can give anything,
Speaker 3: one little piece of evidence, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: Like one little thing can break it wright open, right,
Speaker 3: So anything we find, anything we find, I mean, obviously
Speaker 3: I'd love to solve this but it's just it's just
Speaker 3: something that I don't I just don't know.
Speaker 2: Speaking of that, have the Has there been any updates
Speaker 2: with the belief as far as you know or can.
Speaker 4: Share with us, Not that I can share, okay, but
Speaker 4: there has been progressed. I think you'll be hearing something soon.
Speaker 3: More on that next time.
Speaker 8: True Crimes is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Deanna Thompson,
Speaker 8: Courtney Armstrong, Jeff Shane, Andrew Arnaut, and me John Green.
Speaker 8: Additional producing by Connor Powell and Gabe Castile, Editing by
Speaker 8: Jeff Ti Music by vanikor Music.
Speaker 3: True Crimes is a production of iHeart Radio and Katie Studios.
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, please visit the
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite shows.