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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship

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Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me for session of the Therapy of

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Speaker 1: Black Girls podcasts. We'll get right into the conversation after

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. What would the Internet and

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Speaker 1: social media be without black women? Without the labor, brilliance,

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Speaker 1: and talent of black women, the twitters and TikTok's of

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Speaker 1: the world wouldn't hold the same cultural weight. Despite our

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Speaker 1: continuous contributions to these sites, these same platforms are often

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Speaker 1: disproportionately more harmful for us. Joining me today to discuss

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Speaker 1: the ways we can build spaces that center our humanity

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Speaker 1: is Bridget Todd, digital activist and host and creator of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Podcasts, There are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: During our conversation, Bridget and I chatted about what it

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Speaker 1: looks like to create change online, the importance of black

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Speaker 1: women sharing their online experiences, how misinformation and conspiracy theories

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Speaker 1: online negatively impact marginal life communities, and creating a safer

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Speaker 1: online ecosystem for everyone to participate in. If something resonates

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Speaker 1: with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us

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Speaker 1: on social media using the hashtag TVG in session, or

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Speaker 1: join us in the digital safe space we've created for

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Speaker 1: black women, the Sister Circle. To talk more in depth

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Speaker 1: about the episode, you can join us at community dot

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Speaker 1: therapy for black Girls dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us, Bridget, Oh, I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to be here. I'm such a big fan of

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Speaker 1: your show and what you've built, So this is a

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Speaker 1: dream come true. Very excited, very excited to have you here.

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Speaker 1: So you're a podcaster, activists, and digital strategists working to

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Speaker 1: create change on the Internet. Tell me a little bit

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Speaker 1: about how you got started with net work. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: really just came from being a lifelong lover of the Internet.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a small town in Virginia. Shout out,

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Speaker 1: timid Lothian, Virginia. I'm sure most folks have work in

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Speaker 1: reach room for a while, so I've okay. So you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a little different now, But when I was coming

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Speaker 1: of age, it was a very sleepy, small suburban town,

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Speaker 1: and I grew up feeling incredibly out of place in

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Speaker 1: this very sleepy, small suburban town if not for the Internet.

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Speaker 1: I will never forget the day that my parents had

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Speaker 1: brought home this like clunky, gray computer and they set

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Speaker 1: it up in what will be known as the computer

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Speaker 1: room in our house, and nobody was allowed to drink

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Speaker 1: of soda in there, nobody was allowed to take food

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Speaker 1: in there, and it was like my parents had bought

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Speaker 1: me a pair of wings. It was the first time

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Speaker 1: that I was able to connect with people outside of

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Speaker 1: my little small town, really discover who I was, and

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Speaker 1: do a lot of self exploration that I would never

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Speaker 1: have had the chance to do. And so I really

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Speaker 1: saw the way that the Internet opened up this huge

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Speaker 1: world of possibilities for me. And as I got older,

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Speaker 1: I saw the way that younger generations today, especially for

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Speaker 1: marginalized people so black women, brown folks, queer folks, LGBT,

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Speaker 1: hugh folks. I saw the ways that the Internet. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's still this land of discovery and opportunity,

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Speaker 1: but it's also can be really tough out there, and

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Speaker 1: so I wanted to make sure that we had healthy

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Speaker 1: Internet ecosystems and tell the story of all the different

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Speaker 1: amazing black women who are contributing to making the Internet

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Speaker 1: a safer place and more inclusive place, because I know

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Speaker 1: just how powerful the Internet can be when it's a

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Speaker 1: safe place to have those kinds of experiences. So, Bridget,

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Speaker 1: I would love for you to share some of your

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Speaker 1: earliest online community experiences, because when you said that, my

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Speaker 1: brain immediately went to participating in like Yahoo chat rooms.

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Speaker 1: And so I don't know your age, but that I

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Speaker 1: feel like was my earliest goal talking to strangers on

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Speaker 1: the Internet. So what was that for you? Was your

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Speaker 1: earliest experience? Oh my god, I loved the Yahoo chat room.

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Speaker 1: I loved America online like old school. I did a

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Speaker 1: lot of I'm sure I was doing things and I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have been doing, and like in pockets of the

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Speaker 1: Internet that I shouldn't have been Probably the community that

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Speaker 1: was the most foundational place for me online. I moved

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Speaker 1: from d C to San Francisco, California, where I knew

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Speaker 1: no one. I was completely like a like a spur

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Speaker 1: of the moment move, and I decided that that would

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Speaker 1: be the appropriate time to do the big chap, to

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Speaker 1: cut off all my hair because I was away from

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Speaker 1: my family, you know, knew me new time in my life,

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Speaker 1: and San Francisco is not like there weren't a lot

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Speaker 1: of like black salons. And so if it was not

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Speaker 1: for online message boards about how you maintain curly hair,

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Speaker 1: how you have emotional resilience when you're going through the

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Speaker 1: big chap all of that, I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: would have ever gotten through that time. And so that

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Speaker 1: was probably the time when an online community that felt

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Speaker 1: like a real community, like people that I had that

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Speaker 1: could be in my corner and helped me through this

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Speaker 1: tough time in my life. That was probably the time

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Speaker 1: that it was the most impactful for me. Even though

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Speaker 1: these are people that I didn't know in real life,

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Speaker 1: I came to really depend on them for this sense

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Speaker 1: of community that I just didn't have. I r L

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Speaker 1: because I had just moved to this new city that

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Speaker 1: I didn't know anybody in Yeah, you know, really, I

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Speaker 1: know we're gonna get into this a little later, just

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Speaker 1: around like how important Indians for black women's to form community.

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Speaker 1: But this natural hair movement, I feel like it's like

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Speaker 1: a hallmark of black women's online community building, because you're right,

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Speaker 1: I think so many of us did the big chap

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Speaker 1: and like talked about products and all of this, and

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Speaker 1: so much of that I think was happening online where

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Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily feel like even though I was in

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Speaker 1: bigger cities, I wasn't necessarily in like a Midlothian. But

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Speaker 1: even in real life, I don't remember having as many

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Speaker 1: of those conversations in person as I did, like on

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Speaker 1: the message board. So that's a very important point. We're

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Speaker 1: going to get back to that later. But you also

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Speaker 1: do some work as the COMPS director of Ultra Violet.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about your role there and like how

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Speaker 1: you approach making change through that organization. Yeah, I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad that you brought this up. Ultra Violet is very

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Speaker 1: near and near to my heart. If you don't know

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Speaker 1: what we are, we are a gender justice advocacy organization

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Speaker 1: with over one point two million gender justice advocates nationwide.

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Speaker 1: We really want to create a cost for things like sexism,

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Speaker 1: massogyny gets black women in specifically, or an intersectional feminist

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Speaker 1: organization that is really lifting up some of the fights

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Speaker 1: that we believe are sort of on the path to

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Speaker 1: getting a feminist, anti racist future that I know that

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Speaker 1: we all want. And so a big part of that

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Speaker 1: work at Ultra Violet for me has looked like advocating

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Speaker 1: for safer internet experiences and communities, particularly forward people who

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Speaker 1: are traditionally marginalized. So black folks, brown folks, queer folks,

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Speaker 1: LGBTQ folks, making sure that we are able to show

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Speaker 1: up online safely and make our voices heard, because online

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Speaker 1: experiences are so crucial to how we all show up

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Speaker 1: in the world, especially these days. M And I know

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Speaker 1: a large part of work has also been researched, So

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Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about like some of

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Speaker 1: the research that you've done, but also what you found

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Speaker 1: in terms of like how the internet impacts women in

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Speaker 1: people of color. Yeah, So, working with Ultra Violet, we

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Speaker 1: really are so lucky to be working in like deep

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Speaker 1: collaboration and community with all sorts of different organizations who

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Speaker 1: are all researching the internet and technology and the way

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Speaker 1: it impacts people who are traditionally marginalized. And so a

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Speaker 1: lot of the research that I do is just lifting

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Speaker 1: up and amplifying and packaging and doing analysis around research

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Speaker 1: of like other great researchers. And so we are in

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Speaker 1: these different coalitions like the Women's Information Defense Project, which

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Speaker 1: is an organization of multiple different gender justice organizations who

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Speaker 1: are all talking about things like disinformation and online safety

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Speaker 1: and online communities from the perspective of rooting gender and

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Speaker 1: feminism and an intersectional lens. That's how we approach it.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm very lucky to have access to all

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Speaker 1: this different research that I would never be able to

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Speaker 1: get my hands on just working alone. So definitely it's

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Speaker 1: been deep collaboration and partnership. Can you share any of

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Speaker 1: the findings of some of their research then has really

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Speaker 1: jumped out to you as like most interesting or impactful. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Just recently, we put together a report card grading all

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Speaker 1: of the major social media platforms on how they really

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Speaker 1: fail women and people of color, and we, perhaps unsurprisingly,

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Speaker 1: most of the platforms didn't do great on this report card,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's sort of been the the I

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Speaker 1: don't say most surprising, but definitely most impactful thing I've

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Speaker 1: seen from this research is just how badly and how

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Speaker 1: deeply a lot of social media platforms are failing traditionally

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Speaker 1: marginalized people. And so that work really was sort of

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Speaker 1: like making sure that these platforms really understood what's at

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Speaker 1: stake and the root of the problem, so we can

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Speaker 1: really get to a place where we can figure out

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Speaker 1: where we go from there and how we fix it.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that a bridget because as you've

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Speaker 1: alluded to, like even in your introduction, you know, there's research,

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Speaker 1: i think even from the Pew research that talks about

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Speaker 1: like how black people and other traditionally marginalized people are

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Speaker 1: like the main ones on a lot of these social

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Speaker 1: media platforms. So it's really interesting to hear that even

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Speaker 1: though we are sometimes like the largest user base, that

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Speaker 1: we are not safe in these places, right, Like we

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Speaker 1: are the ones who typically like make things pop on

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Speaker 1: these platforms, you know, like all these viral moments are

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Speaker 1: a lot of people from traditionally modginalized communities, yet these

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Speaker 1: are not typically safe spaces for us. Absolutely, you just

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Speaker 1: articulated it so well, and that really for me was

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Speaker 1: a big foundational shift and why and how I approached

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Speaker 1: this work because the Internet and social media would be

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Speaker 1: nothing without black folks, particularly black women and black queer folks. Right,

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Speaker 1: what would Twitter be nothing? What would what would Instagram

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Speaker 1: be nothing? What would TikTok be if it wasn't for

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Speaker 1: our labor, are, brilliance, our talent, nothing, right, And so

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Speaker 1: these platforms they need us. We are the lifeblood of

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Speaker 1: these platforms. And so I think that for a long time,

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Speaker 1: people who run platforms didn't think that they had to

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Speaker 1: be accountable to us, the people who are the lifeblood

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Speaker 1: of why these things make them millions of dollars like

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Speaker 1: every month or so. Right, And so I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to flip the script and say, no, platforms, they ought

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Speaker 1: to be accountable to us. If we are the ones

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Speaker 1: who are making your platform profitable, making your platform a

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Speaker 1: good place to be, we ought to be able to

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Speaker 1: expect that you're going to be accountable to us, to

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Speaker 1: make sure that us being there feels good, for us

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Speaker 1: being there feel safe that if we're going to be

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Speaker 1: out these platforms, we can actually get paid for our

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Speaker 1: labor and our brilliance, not just exploited and have to

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Speaker 1: be mined by others for them to get paid. And

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Speaker 1: so I really wanted to start having some of those

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Speaker 1: conversations that really center us and our power and reality

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Speaker 1: of what we actually do provide these platforms, which is

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Speaker 1: a lot. So what are some of the recommendations more

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Speaker 1: things that these platforms might be able to put into

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Speaker 1: police so that we can have safer and healthier experiences

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Speaker 1: on the platforms. Such a great question. So I would say,

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Speaker 1: first and foremost, really making sure that moderation decisions are

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Speaker 1: being made by humans who know what they're doing. I

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Speaker 1: think that we do a lot of relying on algorithmic

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Speaker 1: models that we know are biased against us a lot

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Speaker 1: of times, and so I would say getting away from

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Speaker 1: algorithmic moderation policies and really center more human moderation policies.

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Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many times I've seen I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking of TikTok in particular, where a black contact creator

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Speaker 1: will make a joke that is clearly an intra community

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Speaker 1: black thing, and a algorithmic based con at moderation model

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Speaker 1: won't understand that. Nuance I won't understand that, and so

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Speaker 1: well penalize this black content creator for making completely appropriate

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Speaker 1: content speaking to a black audience because that moderation system

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Speaker 1: doesn't understand it. So I would say making sure that

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Speaker 1: we're not prioritizing moderation models that just continue to marginalize

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Speaker 1: us and penalize us unfairly is one too. I would say,

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Speaker 1: really making sure that at these tech companies, the people

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Speaker 1: who are making the decisions and holding the power look

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Speaker 1: like the user base of those platforms. And so it's

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Speaker 1: a huge problem as I'm sure you know that the

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Speaker 1: people who are making decisions not to mention the money

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Speaker 1: and a lot of these major platforms are white men.

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Speaker 1: That's just the way it is. And so I think

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Speaker 1: making a shift toward hiring to make sure that the

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Speaker 1: people who are actually making these decisions look a little

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Speaker 1: bit more like the communities they are meant to be

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Speaker 1: serving and protecting such important work. I really appreciate you

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Speaker 1: sharing it. So you also have this very cool podcast

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Speaker 1: called There Are No Girls on the Internet, which I

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Speaker 1: think is like the coolest Kay's name. First, I want

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Speaker 1: to hear the story behind the naming, but also why

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Speaker 1: and how you chose podcasting as an additional avenue for

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Speaker 1: you to be able to share some of these messages.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I love this question. So the name

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Speaker 1: of the podcast, there are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: I love the name, but it is a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a mouthful. Every time I have to type it,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, why did I pick something that was so long?

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Speaker 1: The idea of there are no girls on the Internet

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Speaker 1: is sort of like an unstated rule of the Internet,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of means two different things, both of

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Speaker 1: which I think are not correct. One that anybody on

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Speaker 1: the Internet that you meet who says they are a

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Speaker 1: woman is not actually a woman. They're lying because there

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Speaker 1: are no girls on the Internet. Too. It's this idea

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Speaker 1: that when we show up on the internet, when we

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Speaker 1: show up online, our identities don't actually matter, and so

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Speaker 1: if you are a black woman, you leave that identity

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Speaker 1: at the door when you log on. Both of those

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Speaker 1: things are not true. You know. First of all, there

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Speaker 1: are so many interesting, dynamic women who aren't just showing

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Speaker 1: up online but actually changing what it means to be online,

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Speaker 1: fighting and shaping the Internet to make it more inclusive

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Speaker 1: and safer. So that's one to this idea that our

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Speaker 1: identities don't matter online just doesn't hold water for me.

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Speaker 1: You know, we know time and time again that the

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Speaker 1: experiences that we have out in the real world as

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Speaker 1: traditionally marginalized people, as black women, they do show up online.

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Speaker 1: And so I really wanted to create a platform that

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Speaker 1: was really centered in what I know to be the

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Speaker 1: truth about our Internet experiences. That one it is black

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Speaker 1: and brown folks, LGBT, hugh folks who are really doing

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Speaker 1: the work of making the Internet safer, more inclusive, and

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Speaker 1: just a more fun, dynamic place to spend time. And

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Speaker 1: that our identities really do make a difference when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the kinds of experiences we can expect online.

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Speaker 1: And what makes you think that podcasting was a great

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Speaker 1: way to have those conversations? Who I have always been

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Speaker 1: a podcast person. There's just something about it. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you feel the same way, Like I'll never forget when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid. My family is from North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: We have one of those big black Southern families, and

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Speaker 1: my grandmother she was this like beautiful matriarch figure of

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Speaker 1: our fami. Really and now I grew up at her

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Speaker 1: knees hearing her stories about her life all the time,

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Speaker 1: And after she passed, I actually found that she had

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Speaker 1: been part of a research project with the University of

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Speaker 1: North Carolina, and they had taken all this audio archival

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Speaker 1: of my grandmother telling her stories. And the first time

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Speaker 1: that I heard her voice in my ear telling the

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Speaker 1: stories of her growing up in the South, through segregation,

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Speaker 1: raising this family, it just hit me like something completely different.

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Speaker 1: And that was the first time that I really understood

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Speaker 1: the power of audio, the power of hearing someone tell

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Speaker 1: their own story in their own words. And so I've

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Speaker 1: always been an audio person. I've been involved in podcasts

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Speaker 1: from the very very beginning, back before shows like Cereal,

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Speaker 1: when we didn't know what the heck we were doing,

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Speaker 1: you know, we had no idea. I think that with podcasting,

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Speaker 1: it's really a chance to hear people tell their own

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Speaker 1: experience in their own words and their own voice, and

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Speaker 1: it's just so intimate. There's something about the intimacy of

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Speaker 1: someone's voice in your ears, and honestly, we deserve it.

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Speaker 1: We deserve in to meet thoughtful of nuanced, beautiful stories

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Speaker 1: about our experiences. We deserve that more. From my conversation

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Speaker 1: with Bridget after the break, yeah, and you know it's

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Speaker 1: our earlier conversation about the natural hair community, it feels

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Speaker 1: like it nicely dove tails with what you're sharing now,

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Speaker 1: and even though it is like beautiful and really important,

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Speaker 1: it is also difficult because it feels like there are

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Speaker 1: so few safe spaces for black women to be able

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Speaker 1: to commune online. Right, So, even if you share a

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Speaker 1: tweet and say that you're only talking to other black women, like,

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Speaker 1: undoubtedly other people will like budge into their conversation. Right,

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Speaker 1: And so I wonder if you have any thoughts about,

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Speaker 1: like how we can create spaces and save spaces for

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Speaker 1: black women online. Yeah, what a great question. A tool

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Speaker 1: or a platform that I've been really into lately has

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Speaker 1: been Twitter spaces, right, so you know, when you can say, like,

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Speaker 1: I want to curate a conversation with a handful of

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Speaker 1: people that I select. If other people come in, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's fine, but I have control over who I want

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Speaker 1: to have the stage and whose voice I want to

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Speaker 1: be spotlighting. I love that I've seen some really interesting

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Speaker 1: use cases of how people are really using Twitter spaces

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Speaker 1: to cure rate the voices they want to be engaging with. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I agree with that, And it does feel like in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways, Twitter spaces feels like a zoom

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Speaker 1: but like a for like a lower lift, right, because

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Speaker 1: because you know how to like sit out a password

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Speaker 1: and you know all of that stuff, and you, as

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Speaker 1: the holes, do have control over those things. I would

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Speaker 1: agree with you there. Yeah, I love it. I've never

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Speaker 1: hosted a space myself, but I am always popping in like,

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Speaker 1: what's what's this that the Twitter spaces. I think you

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Speaker 1: might have been in it the night of the Oscars

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Speaker 1: where it was like everybody was like, um, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we we need a family debrief what just happened? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And you know, so I'm you hear that joke? Let

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Speaker 1: go at the next like all black people meeting, right,

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Speaker 1: And I often think, like the night of the Oscars,

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Speaker 1: it would be really cool if we did have these

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Speaker 1: like actual like all hands on deck black people meeting,

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Speaker 1: like there's a family emergency, we gotta come together. So

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Speaker 1: it does feel like Twitter spaces in some ways has

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Speaker 1: kind of given us an opportunity to do some of that.

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Speaker 1: And it also, you know, I don't know where you

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Speaker 1: on clubhouse bridget I, So it does feel like there's

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Speaker 1: a different feeling for Twitter versus Clubhouse or do you

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Speaker 1: feel that way? Also? I do feel that way, And

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Speaker 1: part of the reason I haven't really thought about this,

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Speaker 1: So this is like not a fully fleshed out thought,

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Speaker 1: but I do think it comes from the fact that

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Speaker 1: when Clubhouse first started, it had this layer of like

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Speaker 1: exclusivity because you had to get an invite to go.

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Speaker 1: And obviously everybody likes feeling special. Everybody likes feeling they

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Speaker 1: have a special invite to something. But I think the

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Speaker 1: reason why, at least for me, Twitter space has hits

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Speaker 1: a little bit different is because it's not about exclusivity,

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Speaker 1: Like if you see it on the top of your page,

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Speaker 1: you can go in and listen and you don't have

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Speaker 1: to have any kind of special invite. And so for me,

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Speaker 1: I always like it when spaces are more accessible for everybody.

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Speaker 1: I also think the Clubhouse in the beginning was only

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Speaker 1: for iPhone and not for Android, and so I think

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a a different user experience

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Speaker 1: sort of baked into using the platform versus something like

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Speaker 1: a Twitter Spaces, which I just feel like from the

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Speaker 1: ground up didn't have those same kinds of barriers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree, that does make a lot of sense. You know,

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Speaker 1: so in the past couple of years, especially, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of doing the pandemic, I think the issue of

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Speaker 1: like online safety and like online experiences has really been heightened,

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Speaker 1: and so I love to hear you talk about like

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Speaker 1: how misinformation and conspiracy theories around like COVID and all

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Speaker 1: of these other things have really hurt marginalized communities. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I could talk all day. It's one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: why I turned my focus in terms of my work

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Speaker 1: and my podcast and my research to miss and disinformation

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Speaker 1: because I was seeing it firsthand how it impacted in

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Speaker 1: my community. For a long time, I thought of all

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Speaker 1: this internet safety work as sort of my nine to five,

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Speaker 1: and then I would show up in my community with

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Speaker 1: my family very differently. And it was around COVID that

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Speaker 1: I I started seeing, like, wait a minute, what's happening

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Speaker 1: in my own family group chat? What are the conversations

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Speaker 1: that are popping off there? And so I really had

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Speaker 1: to turn my lens back to my own people in

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Speaker 1: my own community to say, like, wait, how are we

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Speaker 1: being targeted and impacted by things like misinformation? And something

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Speaker 1: that I really wish that people talked more about when

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Speaker 1: they talk about disinformation and conspiracy theories and things like

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Speaker 1: that is the way that bad actors are so savvy

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Speaker 1: at targeting our and by our our I mean black

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Speaker 1: folks targeting our legitimate existing tensions, traumas, and fears and

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Speaker 1: using them against us. Right, And so the thing about

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Speaker 1: misinformation and conspiracy theories at oftentimes more often than not,

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Speaker 1: it is rooted in a grain of truth. Right, I

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Speaker 1: guess I see the ways that bad actors really do

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Speaker 1: exploit this harmful traumatic legacy that we as black folks

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Speaker 1: do have in this country, right, and so things like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is absolutely reasonable for a black person in the

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Speaker 1: United States to be a little bit skeptical of, you know,

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Speaker 1: the medical industry, given our history. And so that's just

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Speaker 1: a fact that it's just a reality about our experience

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Speaker 1: as black folks in this country. And so the way

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Speaker 1: that bad actors they seize on that reality to inflame it,

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Speaker 1: to exploit it, has been the most damaging thing, I

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Speaker 1: think to our communities. And it really lets institutions and

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Speaker 1: people with power who have let us down off the hook,

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Speaker 1: because it makes it so much harder to talk about

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Speaker 1: the reality of what our experiences and traumas have been

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Speaker 1: like when bad actors are exploiting those conversations for their

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Speaker 1: own gain. Yeah, you actually had a mini series on

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Speaker 1: your podcast called Disinformed. Can you talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about how that came to be and some of them,

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Speaker 1: like common misconceptions that you explored in that series. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that really came to be when I noticed the

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Speaker 1: ways that black and brown folks are specifically targeted. You

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Speaker 1: might not know this to look at the space, because

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Speaker 1: so many times when we're talking about conspiracy theories, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about white people, but black and brown communities are

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Speaker 1: disproportionately targeted for things like disent for nation of conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theories and disproportionately harmed, right, And so I really didn't

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Speaker 1: see that reality being reflected in the space where we

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Speaker 1: talk about conspiracy theories. I didn't really see that reality reflected,

433
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: and so I really wanted to start a conversation about

434
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: the harm that conspiracy theories and disinformation have had in

435
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: our communities and who is profiting off those things, right,

436
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 1: Because if you're a social media platform, maybe you don't

437
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 1: love the fact that there's conspiracy theories being spread on

438
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: your platform, but that engagement is making you money, and

439
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 1: so I really wanted to have that conversation about what

440
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,719
Speaker 1: do we do with the fact that platforms are benefiting

441
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: materially from content that we know disproportionately harms our communities,

442
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: and so that's really how that series came to be.

443
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 1: I would say the biggest misconception about disinformation and conspiracy

444
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: theories is that people who fall for them are quote

445
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: stupid or uneducated. Right, Like, I've been working in the

446
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 1: disinformation space for a long time and I get fooled sometimes.

447
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: That's because bad actors are very savvy, and we really

448
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 1: don't have a media landscape that lends itself to the

449
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 1: kinds of authentic, helpful, honest content that we should all

450
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: have easy access to, right And so when you look

451
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 1: at things like the ways that black and brown folks

452
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 1: are underserved by traditional media just written large, it is

453
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: not surprising why people would fall for conspiracy theories or

454
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: bad actors or misinformation. And so I see a lot

455
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: of people talk about people who fall for conspiracy theories

456
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: as stupid or uneducated or ignorant, and that's nothing could

457
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: be further from the truth. The fact is that bad

458
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: actors are very very savvy and very very good, and

459
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: the best of us can fall for it. Can you

460
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 1: give us a definition of what you mean by bad actors?

461
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 1: Bridgid that may maybe a time a lot of people

462
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 1: are familiar with. Absolutely. Yeah, So I use bad actors

463
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 1: as a way to talk about people who spread disinformation. So,

464
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: disinformation is untrue content that is being purposely spread with

465
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: the intent to spread confusion or chaos. And so somebody

466
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: who was spreading disinformation, they are a bad actor. They

467
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: are doing this knowingly on purpose to confuse was and

468
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: scare people, as opposed to somebody who is spreading misinformation

469
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: that's just inaccurate content that you might not even know

470
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: it's not true. And so spreading misinformation isn't great, but

471
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: people aren't always doing it with bad intentions. And so

472
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: I use the phrase of bad actors to specify somebody

473
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: who is spreading lies with the intent to cause fear

474
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: and chaos and distrust and confusion. God, I thank you

475
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: for this. So what are some of the ways, Like

476
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: you just said, it's not always easy to know when

477
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: you're getting like misinformation or disinformation. So what are some

478
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: ways that we can identify like extremist or misinformation, especially online?

479
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: What a good question. So honestly, I think of this

480
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: as almost sort of like a mindfulness practice. You can't

481
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: see right now, but on my Leaftop. I have a

482
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 1: little post it that just says the word slow down,

483
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: because oftentimes I find that when I'm online, I'm just

484
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: moving very quickly. I'm getting, you know, tweet after tweet

485
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: after tweet after a tweet, and I see something that

486
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: I like and I just smash share right away. And

487
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: so I always just try to ground myself and this

488
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: idea of slow down a little bit and notice when

489
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: you're scrolling on your social media page, notice how the

490
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: content is making you feel. Really be a little bit

491
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: mindful about it. You don't have to share everything right away,

492
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: you don't have to respond to everything right away. It's

493
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: completely okay to take a minute, take a beat when

494
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: you see something. If you see something that gets your

495
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 1: heart racing or makes you feel a little bit twitchy,

496
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: which I see all the time, I always have to

497
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: stop myself and say, no, no, take a minute. This

498
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: piece of content obviously triggered some feelings, and you take

499
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: a minute to see like why that might be. And

500
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: so I would say slowing down online that's probably the

501
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: biggest piece of feedback I have, because when we're just

502
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: moving really quickly, that's how we share things without reading

503
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: the whole article. That's how we share things without looking

504
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: at another source to see if it's true. That's how

505
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: we share things. And if you took a minute and

506
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 1: really thought about it, maybe it will be a little

507
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: bit fishy to us. And so I would say the

508
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: biggest thing I can can tell people is to slow

509
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: down before you share and just be a little bit

510
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: mindful when you're scrolling social media in general. Yeah, think

511
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: that that's really important too, because I think the other

512
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: thing that has happened online and I think I see

513
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: this most often on Twitter, but I also spend the

514
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 1: most time on Twitter. So my answer is probably biased.

515
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: My thoughts on this are probably biased. But it also

516
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: feels like and I think there's some legitimacy to this,

517
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: like organizations and people using like shock and racism as

518
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: like an engagement strategy, right, so they know that if

519
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: they say something like off the wall races, we are

520
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: all going to be talking about it. We're all going

521
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: to be sharing about it, right, And really, again, the

522
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: slowing down can help us to remember like, Okay, yes

523
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: I am enraged about this, but me sharing this article

524
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: also give them clicks, right, Me sharing this also gives

525
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: them the engagement that they're looking for. So I think

526
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: that that is really helpful in that way too. Oh

527
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: my gosh, you've said it. And I think we all know,

528
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: Like if you think about your Instagram feed, I see

529
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: that an Instagram a lot. We all know those big

530
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: social media accounts where they are using things that they

531
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: know we're inflammatory to get us riled up. And when

532
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: you use an algorithmic based social media platform on like

533
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: a Twitter or an Instagram, you are training that algorithm

534
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: what you want to see. And so if somebody posts

535
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: something that is intentionally extreme or inflammatory and you engage

536
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: with it, that's going to make more people see that content,

537
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: because that's how algorithms work. The algorithm is gonna think, oh,

538
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: you want to see this kind of intensely negative or

539
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: outrageous content. And so I actually had to unfollow a

540
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: lot of Instagram accounts that would use, especially black queer

541
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: youth and black women, they would use content around them

542
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: in this incredibly transparent way to clearly stoke outrage, and

543
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: I just had to stop giving them my outrage. It

544
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: wasn't productive after a while to see the worst of

545
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: the worst, and like see these comments sections where black

546
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: women or black queer youth would be getting dragged. It

547
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: just wasn't good for me. And so I would invite

548
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: people to really think about curating the kind of social

549
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: media experience they want to have that is actually going

550
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: to be productive for how they want to show up online.

551
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: More from my conversation with bridget after the break, Yeah,

552
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: because you know, like to your point, like that can

553
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: become exhausting, right, I mean, there are enough actually bad

554
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 1: things happening in the world for us to be adding

555
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: additional like layers of stress and like, oh, look at

556
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: this latest online outrage. Right, No, part of what is

557
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: happening is that in a lot of ways, we are

558
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: becoming desensitized to a lot of this, Right, And so

559
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: when you are constantly looking at this latest hate crime

560
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: or you know, all of these things, at some point

561
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: like your system can't process at all. And so I

562
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: think that it is a good reminders who to just

563
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: kind of make sure we're paying attention to how we're

564
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: curating our feeds and our experiences. We both talked about

565
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: that kind of being very online. In what ways do

566
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: you feel like the internet really an online behavior has

567
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: impacted black women specifically? Oh, I think it's been such

568
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: a double ledged sword for us, because on the one hand,

569
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: the thing I love about the Internet is the way

570
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: that it democratized our voices. And so you know, you

571
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: didn't have to have a contact on a media company

572
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: or a contact at a news company to get your

573
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: voice out there. If you've got a Twitter account and

574
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: a phone, great, you can make an entire movement. You

575
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: can make a Black Lives Matter, or a Me Too,

576
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: or any number of movements that we saw that were

577
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: created by black women that would go on to change

578
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: the world. And so on the one hand, I think

579
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: it's been incredibly powerful for us to have this democratized

580
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: voice where we could really change the conversation, start a

581
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: movement just by a tweet. That is what black women

582
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: have always done. There is nothing more powerful in this

583
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: world and a black holeman with a cell phone and

584
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: an Internet connection, right, And so I firmly believe that

585
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: where we need to catch up is people with power,

586
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: decision makers really honoring how much we have brought to

587
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: the Internet, how much we have brought to technology, and

588
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: really honoring us as the innovators that we are. And

589
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: so you know, when I say it's a double edged sword,

590
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: I want us to fee old, like it's our right

591
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: to take up more space online. I don't want anyone

592
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, you're a black woman on the internet,

593
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: like what an anomaly. No, I want us to see

594
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: the internet and technology as our rightful domain where we

595
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: belong and where we have a right to take up

596
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: a lot of space and had a big voice in

597
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: the conversation, you know, Ridgid, I firmly agree with you,

598
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: but I also feel like I have had enough conversations

599
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: here on the podcast and just in other places, right, Like,

600
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: so many sisters who are doing that kind of work

601
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: eventually feel like they have to disconnect from social media, right, So,

602
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: whether it be the trolls or you know, so it's

603
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: almost like they will maybe sometimes keep their channels active

604
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: so they can just kind of share highlights, but they

605
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: really aren't personally engaging. And so I think that that's

606
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: the double edged sword that you're referring to, right that

607
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: it is a powerful opportunity to kind of share your message,

608
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: but we also know, you know that the online experiences

609
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: operate much like they do in real life, right, and

610
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: we are often the targets of people who want to

611
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: be hateful. If you were to go to my Twitter

612
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: right now, you would say, I don't think this person

613
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: really likes being online because I'm sort of using my

614
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: Twitter as like a highlight reel, like here's my latest

615
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: podcast episode, here's my latest appearance, whatever, whatever. I'm not

616
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time they're having conversations because of

617
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: precisely what you just said. And I think that's part

618
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: of the double edged sword of showing up as a

619
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: black woman online, that every single piece of research will

620
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: make this point that black women are disproportionately targeted for

621
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: things like disinformation campaigns, misinformation attacks, and harassment rooted in

622
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: attacks on our identity as black women. Like that's just

623
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: what we have to deal with to show up online.

624
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: And so I can't blame anybody who was like, you know,

625
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna check out of this for a

626
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: little while, or i think I'm gonna use this to

627
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: just to get my point across. I'm not gonna be

628
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: here for extended conversations or back and forth with people.

629
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: I completely get that, and I think that's part of

630
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: the double edged sort of what it means to show

631
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: up online as a black woman. Yeah, so you know

632
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: the other thing, and we've had a very very public

633
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:03,719
Speaker 1: example of this around how like comedians and jokes and

634
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: even a lot of the like internet comedians, I guess

635
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: is the best descriptor how they actually make their careers

636
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: off of dressing up as like older black women or

637
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: there tends to be like some black women being the

638
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: butt of the joke, and that is tend to be

639
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: what we see going viral, right, And I'd love to

640
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts about like how that can impact us

641
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: and our experiences online. You're absolutely right, And now that

642
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: I do this work professionally and have a little bit

643
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: of research behind it, I can say that's not just

644
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: an anecdotal thing. We have a digital media ecosystem that

645
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: will always be ready and willing to amplify attacks on

646
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: black women. That is just the way that it is.

647
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: Comedians and podcasters and all of that. They traffic in

648
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: jokes about black women that make us about the joke

649
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: because it is effective. It is an effective strategy to

650
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: build cloud. We saw it over and over and over

651
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: again with our former president, who, when his back was

652
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,719
Speaker 1: against the wall, often attack prominent black women in politics

653
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: and journalism because that was always going to be a

654
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: way to like rile up the base and get them going.

655
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: And it's been so heartbreaking to see our own community

656
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: do the same thing. But unfortunately that is the reality.

657
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: And I think when the way that you see yourself

658
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: as black women is these hurtful, cruel depictions that are

659
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: so dehumanizing, after a while you can start to internalize

660
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: it and believe it. And the research is very clear

661
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: that these kinds of attacks, particularly on prominent Black women

662
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: in politics, they have a real world impact. So they

663
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: keep black women from being civically engaged, They keep us

664
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: from doing things like running for office, They keep us

665
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: from doing things like just putting our opinions out there

666
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: and having a voice on our own discourse online. And

667
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: so these are not just jokes. They translate to very

668
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: clear real world harm for Black women and for everybody,

669
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: because we are all better served when we have a

670
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: digital landscape where everybody can show up and everybody can

671
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: see themselves thoughtfully depicted, right, And so if we don't

672
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: have that, it's not just a threat to black women,

673
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: which it is, it is a threat to all of

674
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: us to our democracy into having a functioning digital media landscape,

675
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: which is very important. Right as we move forward with

676
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: a more increasingly digital kind of reality, right, Like, so

677
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: many things are done online, so it is really important

678
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: to focus on that, absolutely, especially since COVID, like, we're

679
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: all showing up online much more frequently. And so if

680
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: our online ecosystem is a dumpster fire where black women

681
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: don't feel safe and can't speak up, what kind of

682
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: online ecosystem is that? So You've already share some of

683
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: these things, but I'd love to hear there are other

684
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 1: parts of this strategy that you've put together for yourself,

685
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: Like how do you protect your mental health as someone

686
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: who is very online? Oh, I love this question. So

687
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,479
Speaker 1: one is that I'm offline quite a bit, might take

688
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: long breaks from social media. I'm not somebody who is like, hey,

689
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: y'all taking a social media break, but I do that

690
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: quite a lot too. I spend a lot of time outdoors.

691
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: That's how I like reconnect and plug back in and recharge.

692
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: Is just like go for a walk in the park

693
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: or going for a nice hike. I love to be outside.

694
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: I love to be out in the water. And then

695
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: I would say I also just really have a clear

696
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: understanding of where I plug in in my offline world. Right,

697
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: So I love showing up online. I love the Internet,

698
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: but I'm also really clear that my people are my

699
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: community that I really am able to dial in with offline,

700
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: and so when things online start to feel not so good,

701
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: it's always good for me to like reconnect with my

702
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: friends and family who I know have my back, got

703
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: me will always make me feel grounded when the online

704
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: space just feels too much. That is super important. Thank

705
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: you for sharing it. So as someone who is very online,

706
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear some of your favorite podcasts, newsletters,

707
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: or digital communities that you feel like do a really

708
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: good job of creating safe spaces for black women. Well,

709
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: one is your own. I have to shout out Therapy

710
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 1: for Black Girls, which I'm sure all your listeners feel

711
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: the same, but I can say I have to say, like,

712
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: what you're doing is so groundbreaking and it's something that

713
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 1: I don't even think I realized that it was missing

714
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: until I found your work, And so definitely the community

715
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: that you've built around black women talking honestly about our

716
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: mental health and how we show up. Another podcast that

717
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: I really love is Still Processing. It is one of

718
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: my favorite culture podcasts, and it's a podcast where I,

719
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: I guess I feel like they just do a really

720
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: good job of making sure that black women and black

721
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 1: queer folks get lovingly depicted. Whenever I listened to that podcast,

722
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: I always feel very loved and seen afterward. And then

723
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: another I have to shout out it's I think it's

724
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: no longer active, but it's called being seen. It's about

725
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: the experience of being black and queer. And again, for me,

726
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: podcasts really allow me to feel lovingly depicted. Like I

727
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: know when I'm listening to a podcast when afterward I

728
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: feel kind of like more in love with myself after

729
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: I listened. So those are some of the ones that

730
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: really make me do that I love. Then Yeah, I

731
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: just saw Still Processing is coming back for a new

732
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: season too, So I'm very excited because I've been missing them. Right,

733
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: it feels like when they're a big cultural moments, like

734
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: I often think about, like, oh, what would gin and

735
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: so we have to say about this. So jenn is

736
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: gonna be on a break because I think she's still writing,

737
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: but Wesley is going to come back with some guests coasts.

738
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I can't wait. I know, I know,

739
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: I'm very excited they're coming back. So I appreciate that list.

740
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 1: So what advice would you have for other black women

741
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: who are seeking to build and create community digitally? Yeah,

742
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: I would say, we need more healthy communities where our

743
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: experiences and our voices are meeting ply centered. So if

744
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: you're thinking about starting that podcast or starting that newsletter

745
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: or starting that listser do it. We need you, We

746
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: need your voice. So yeah, that's the first one I

747
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 1: would say. And then I would also say, like, I

748
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: think I can't remember the writer I might have been

749
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: Tony Morrison who said that she wrote the books that

750
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: she needed when she was younger that she didn't see

751
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: and that advice has always been so useful for me.

752
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 1: You know, figure out what that need is in yourself,

753
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: and I guarantee that somebody else out there has same need.

754
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: And so if you're like, the only better was an

755
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: online community for us to talk about blank, I guarantee

756
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: that there's another black woman out there who was like

757
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: I would join that community. So yeah, just really asking

758
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: yourself what it is that you need and not being

759
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 1: afraid to build the thing that you feel like you

760
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: need in the world that is so important, like you

761
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, right, like the democratizing of it right, Like,

762
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: all you really need is a digital device and you

763
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: can create a community. And I do think that that

764
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: is one of the things that black women and you know,

765
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: the other marginalized communities that you've talked about, do a

766
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: particularly great job and is like sharing our stories and

767
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: making room for other people to know that they're not

768
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: alone in their experiences. So I think that that's one

769
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: of the things that's really cool about online communities. Yeah,

770
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: I love it too, And I think like sharing our experience,

771
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: the entire trajectory of those experiences, because the experience of

772
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 1: being a black woman online is sometimes difficult, sometimes hard.

773
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: Somemime's full of pain, but it's also full of joy

774
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: and love and laughter and magic and light and beauty

775
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: and creativity. And so I really try to tell all

776
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: sides of the story, not just rooted in the tough parts,

777
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: but also buoyed by the happy parts as well. So

778
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: leaning into the entire experience that we show up with,

779
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: I think it's really important. Yeah, I agree. So where

780
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: can we stay connected with you? Bridget What is your website?

781
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: Tell us more about where we can listen to the podcast,

782
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 1: as well as any social media handles you'd like to share.

783
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so you can find my work with Ultra

784
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: Violet and we are ultra violet dot org. We would

785
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: love to have you there. Check out some of our

786
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: cool campaigns, including our campaign a Feminist Net to make

787
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: a feminist, anti racist Internet, so definitely check that out.

788
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: We can find my podcast on I Heart Radio. You

789
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: can find it on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get

790
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: your podcast on. It's called There Are No Girls on

791
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: the Internet. You can follow me on social media. I'm

792
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 1: at Bridget Marie in on Twitter and at Bridget Murrie

793
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: in DC on Instagram. Perfect well. We will be sure

794
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: to include all of that in the show Knows. Thank

795
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: you so much for sharing with us. To Dave Bridget,

796
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Oh my pleasure. This was super fun,

797
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: dream come true. Thank you. I'm so glad Bridget was

798
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: able to share her expertise with us today. To learn

799
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: more about her and to check out her podcast, be

800
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Black

801
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash session to and be sure to

802
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: text two of your girls and tell them to check

803
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: out the episode right now. If you're looking for a

804
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: therapist in your area, be sure to check out our

805
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 1: therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory.

806
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: And if you want to continue digging into this topic

807
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: or just be in community with other sisters, come on

808
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our

809
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 1: cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women.

810
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 1: You can join us at community dot Therapy for Black

811
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: Girls dot com. This episode was produced by Freda Lucas

812
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: and Alice Ellis and editing was done by Dennis and Bradford.

813
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for joining me again this week.

814
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: I look forward to continue in this conversation with you

815
00:40:54,560 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: all real soon. Take get care what pos swoot